2022/04/10

2022-04-10 00:02:52 +0000 <abastro[m]> I see, thanks! Sad that macros require TH which inhibits compilation
2022-04-10 00:03:59 +0000tommd(~tommd@97-120-41-123.ptld.qwest.net)
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2022-04-10 00:22:15 +0000 <d34df00d> What's the best way to tell ghc's codegen a branch is unreachable?
2022-04-10 00:23:17 +0000 <abastro[m]> Do you mean in pattern matching?
2022-04-10 00:23:26 +0000kayvank(~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
2022-04-10 00:23:38 +0000 <d34df00d> abastro: almost — in a pattern guard.
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2022-04-10 00:25:17 +0000 <d34df00d> I have four guards of the form `| upperBits == 0b00` (and for the three other possibilities), ``where upperBits = someWord `shiftR` 6``, so there could be no other options but ghc (unsurprisingly) can't see that.
2022-04-10 00:25:22 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-04-10 00:25:46 +0000 <d34df00d> I could've used `otherwise` on the last branch, but it kinda breaks the symmetry of the code, so I'd much rather write `| otherwise = unreachable???` after those four branches.
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2022-04-10 00:26:29 +0000 <dsal> You could define a complete pattern synonym possibly.
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2022-04-10 00:36:54 +0000 <abastro[m]> Another possibility would be pattern matching on bit 6 & bit 7
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2022-04-10 00:51:00 +0000 <d34df00d> The idea with pattern synonyms is interesting, I think it might be the most readable. Thanks!
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2022-04-10 02:14:32 +0000 <sshine> why is there both an 'aeson-schema' and an 'aeson-schemas' package? that's confusing.
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2022-04-10 02:16:48 +0000 <sshine> they're even approximately equally popular (76 vs. 100 downloads).
2022-04-10 02:17:40 +0000 <dsal> People make packages and upload them.
2022-04-10 02:19:43 +0000euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:142e:30d1:6bde:a674)
2022-04-10 02:20:47 +0000 <sshine> apparently, at the bottom of aeson-schema's README they say they only support draft v3, whereas another hjsonschema package supports draft v4, but this package is also deprecated. so aeson-schemas it is. :)
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2022-04-10 03:45:42 +0000 <Sgeo> Do algebraic effects have laws corresponding to the monad laws? If so, are they written out somewhere? Can they differ between effect systems (I'm looking at Unison >.> )
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2022-04-10 05:17:43 +0000 <abastro[m]> I guess each effect system have their own laws - tbh their semantics are quite confusing to me.
2022-04-10 05:17:55 +0000 <abastro[m]> All of them have distinct semantics somehow.
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2022-04-10 07:23:45 +0000 <jonathanx_> I'm trying out cabal a bit (long term stack user), and can't figure out how to run tests with file watch. Google is rather unhelpful. I'm on vscode with HLS, if that helps
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2022-04-10 07:53:29 +0000 <maerwald[m]> jonathanx_: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/5252
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2022-04-10 08:34:20 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> hm. so i can't partially define a function using pattern-matching, and if all the patterns fall through, use like, point-free style for the rest?
2022-04-10 08:35:14 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> e.g. zero_out_two 2 = 0; zero_out_two = id;
2022-04-10 08:35:58 +0000 <Rembane> Unicorn_Princess: That's true, all function equations need to have the same number of arguments. Have a lookt at LambdaCase though.
2022-04-10 08:36:48 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-10 08:38:05 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> and there was some syntax where I don't have to write all the arguments in a pattern-match constructor.. someting like instead of IHaveManyArgs a _ _ _ _, I could write IHaveManyArgs a ...?
2022-04-10 08:39:05 +0000 <Rembane> You could put all your arguments into a record or a tuple instead.
2022-04-10 08:39:42 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> oh maybe i'm thinking of Rust that lets you do this..
2022-04-10 08:41:02 +0000 <Rembane> How does Rust let you do this?
2022-04-10 08:41:35 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-04-10 08:43:04 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> like this: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch18-03-pattern-syntax.html#ignoring-remaining-parts-of-a-value-with-
2022-04-10 08:44:21 +0000 <Rembane> That's really nice, you can do that in Haskell too, in the same way as in Rust, but you need some language extensions, lets see if I can find them.
2022-04-10 08:44:26 +0000razetime(~quassel@117.254.35.102)
2022-04-10 08:44:41 +0000razetime_(~quassel@117.254.35.102)
2022-04-10 08:44:48 +0000 <abastro[m]> Hmm
2022-04-10 08:44:54 +0000 <abastro[m]> I think haskell has sth like it without extension
2022-04-10 08:44:55 +0000 <abastro[m]> For records*
2022-04-10 08:44:59 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2022-04-10 08:45:04 +0000razetime__(~quassel@117.254.35.102)
2022-04-10 08:45:05 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah, this is what you meant, Rembane: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38052553/haskell-record-pattern-matching
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2022-04-10 08:45:29 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> very handy, and i already have a record, so it's just what i need
2022-04-10 08:45:29 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-04-10 08:48:22 +0000 <Rembane> Unicorn_Princess: Bingo! Also this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5ijs45HK
2022-04-10 08:49:12 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> not even a ..? i don't like it >:(
2022-04-10 08:49:28 +0000 <Rembane> :D
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2022-04-10 08:49:42 +0000 <Rembane> You won't be using the dots for anything, so what are they good for?
2022-04-10 08:49:48 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> oh wait
2022-04-10 08:50:20 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> if f was instead `f R { b } = b`..
2022-04-10 08:50:28 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> then it would return the b field?
2022-04-10 08:50:33 +0000bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2022-04-10 08:50:40 +0000 <Rembane> Bingo!
2022-04-10 08:50:47 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> in that case i do like it :)
2022-04-10 08:50:49 +0000 <Rembane> There's another way to do it too: https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/record_wildcards.html
2022-04-10 08:50:52 +0000 <Rembane> ^^
2022-04-10 08:52:00 +0000chddr(~Thunderbi@91.226.34.187) (Quit: chddr)
2022-04-10 08:52:03 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah, but works only if there aren't two arguments with the same constructor, eh?
2022-04-10 08:53:23 +0000 <Rembane> Yeah, that's usually true for all nice things.
2022-04-10 08:54:17 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-10 08:54:43 +0000 <Rembane> Or wait... I think I misinterpreted your question, I thought you meant many constructors in the same datatype and records for each.
2022-04-10 08:54:46 +0000 <Rembane> Do you have an example?
2022-04-10 08:55:55 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> nope, you didn't misunderstand
2022-04-10 08:56:12 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> and A{record_name=r} solves my issue perfectly
2022-04-10 08:56:39 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> hrm. now why can't i find how to rename a variable in the haskell lsp... brb
2022-04-10 08:56:42 +0000 <Rembane> Cool, in the case of many constructors for a datatype with records for each lenses are usually the solution for that, but that's a whole other can of worms.
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2022-04-10 09:47:12 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> ah, looks like i was looking in the right place, but haskell-lsp doesn't support renaming
2022-04-10 09:47:19 +0000gurkenglas(~gurkengla@dslb-178-012-018-212.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2022-04-10 09:47:35 +0000 <Unicorn_Princess> (the emacs lisp function is called lsp-rename, fyi)
2022-04-10 09:48:48 +0000 <abastro[m]> I think it used to support renaming
2022-04-10 09:48:53 +0000 <abastro[m]> Idk where the functionality has gone hmm
2022-04-10 09:49:14 +0000 <abastro[m]> Perhaps some ppl thought text replace is enough, I guess
2022-04-10 09:49:20 +0000Unicorn_Princesswill stay outside that particular rabbit hole
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2022-04-10 15:12:03 +0000bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-10 15:13:51 +0000 <Inst> proposal: Monad refers to the category theory concept and the typeclass only.
2022-04-10 15:14:07 +0000 <Inst> MAF refers to Monadic Applicative Functor and a datatype that can be instanced into Monad
2022-04-10 15:15:55 +0000 <geekosaur> it's a bit late to change that, I think
2022-04-10 15:16:09 +0000 <hpc> counter-proposal: rename Functor to Map, Applicative to DSL, and Monad to DesignPattern
2022-04-10 15:16:13 +0000 <hpc> >:)
2022-04-10 15:17:30 +0000seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-04-10 15:18:17 +0000 <abastro[m]> >:3
2022-04-10 15:19:38 +0000 <hpc> even more evil proposal: redefine const to "const x = x", because variables in haskell are already const by default
2022-04-10 15:20:52 +0000TonyStone(~TonyStone@2603-7080-8607-c36a-4559-b1a3-4de1-30b6.res6.spectrum.com)
2022-04-10 15:20:58 +0000hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-04-10 15:21:28 +0000fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2022-04-10 15:23:14 +0000seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-04-10 15:23:45 +0000 <hpc> the id function hashes a value's memory and returns a guid
2022-04-10 15:23:51 +0000 <hpc> the data keyword has been renamed to type
2022-04-10 15:23:51 +0000Inst(~Liam@c-98-208-218-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-04-10 15:23:56 +0000 <abastro[m]> `:t pure @((->) a)`
2022-04-10 15:24:03 +0000 <hpc> type is now a function that types out what it was given to stdout :D
2022-04-10 15:24:06 +0000 <abastro[m]> :t pure @((->) a)
2022-04-10 15:24:06 +0000hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-251-233-141.socal.res.rr.com)
2022-04-10 15:24:07 +0000 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘->’
2022-04-10 15:24:33 +0000 <abastro[m]> Wh
2022-04-10 15:24:46 +0000 <hpc> er, the data keyword has been renamed to class
2022-04-10 15:24:53 +0000 <hpc> to fit in with other oop languages :D
2022-04-10 15:25:05 +0000 <geekosaur> lambdabot doens't support TypeApplications
2022-04-10 15:25:08 +0000 <abastro[m]> That's the spirit
2022-04-10 15:25:19 +0000 <abastro[m]> Oh lambdabot :<
2022-04-10 15:25:23 +0000 <hpc> % :t pure @((->) a)
2022-04-10 15:25:23 +0000 <yahb> hpc: ; <interactive>:1:13: error: Not in scope: type variable `a'
2022-04-10 15:25:31 +0000 <hpc> % :t pure @(->)
2022-04-10 15:25:31 +0000 <yahb> hpc: ; <interactive>:1:7: error:; * Expecting one more argument to `(->)'; Expected kind `* -> *', but `(->)' has kind `* -> * -> *'; * In the type `(->)'; In the expression: pure @(->)
2022-04-10 15:25:34 +0000kaph(~kaph@dynamic-adsl-78-12-162-98.clienti.tiscali.it)
2022-04-10 15:25:36 +0000 <hpc> bah
2022-04-10 15:25:41 +0000 <geekosaur> % :t pure @((->) _)
2022-04-10 15:25:41 +0000 <yahb> geekosaur: a -> w -> a
2022-04-10 15:25:56 +0000frost(~frost@user/frost) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-04-10 15:25:57 +0000 <abastro[m]> % :t pure @((->) _)
2022-04-10 15:25:57 +0000 <yahb> abastro[m]: a -> w -> a
2022-04-10 15:26:03 +0000 <abastro[m]> Oh ninja'd
2022-04-10 15:26:51 +0000 <abastro[m]> So that is an alternative implementation of traditional const
2022-04-10 15:27:53 +0000 <hpc> also ($) is redefined as ($) = jquery
2022-04-10 15:28:03 +0000seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-04-10 15:28:15 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2022-04-10 15:29:15 +0000 <abastro[m]> I legit heard of suggestions like... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/041a4b39e1a7222df46672e7cff2d833dbaf…)
2022-04-10 15:30:00 +0000 <abastro[m]> I guess F# folks might like that
2022-04-10 15:30:16 +0000 <hpc> we can split the difference
2022-04-10 15:30:20 +0000 <hpc> Functor => Functorable
2022-04-10 15:31:22 +0000 <Zemyla> What would Contravariant be renamed?
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2022-04-10 16:23:59 +0000 <monochrom> ContravariantFunctorable? >:)
2022-04-10 16:25:47 +0000 <monochrom> Ah, late to the party.
2022-04-10 16:26:17 +0000zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a313:d600:8d26:ec9f:3ff6:fc94)
2022-04-10 16:29:04 +0000 <monochrom> https://betterprogramming.pub/monads-are-just-fancy-semicolons-ffe38401fd0e will serve as perpetual reminder that whenever people believe "oh, I know", they are fooling themselves.
2022-04-10 16:30:16 +0000Inst(~Liam@c-98-208-218-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2022-04-10 16:33:07 +0000gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
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2022-04-10 16:37:58 +0000MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@83.22.32.182.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2022-04-10 16:38:40 +0000[exa](exa@user/exa/x-3587197)
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2022-04-10 16:41:45 +0000 <c_wraith> Ah, the good old unlawful bind counting "monad"
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2022-04-10 18:09:42 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2022-04-10 18:11:19 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2022-04-10 18:13:28 +0000arjun(~arjun@user/arjun)
2022-04-10 18:13:58 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-04-10 18:14:19 +0000 <arjun> hi, if i have a type say StateT Stack (MaybeT m) with m as my base monad
2022-04-10 18:14:42 +0000 <arjun> when i use lift, do i go from inside out, or outside in ?
2022-04-10 18:14:46 +0000 <Franciman> hi arjun
2022-04-10 18:14:50 +0000 <Franciman> :t lift
2022-04-10 18:14:51 +0000 <lambdabot> (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a
2022-04-10 18:14:53 +0000bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.158)
2022-04-10 18:14:59 +0000 <Franciman> so you go from m to MaybeT m
2022-04-10 18:15:12 +0000 <Franciman> or from MaybeT m to StateT Stack (MaybeT m)
2022-04-10 18:15:14 +0000 <arjun> so i am in the base monad by default
2022-04-10 18:15:20 +0000 <Franciman> lower level yes
2022-04-10 18:15:31 +0000 <arjun> and to a ask or a put i'd have to lift twice ?
2022-04-10 18:15:39 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-10 18:17:03 +0000benin(~benin@183.82.204.110)
2022-04-10 18:17:37 +0000 <arjun> thanks Franciman
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2022-04-10 18:30:17 +0000redb(~nmh@136.49.49.211)
2022-04-10 18:30:35 +0000 <maerwald> arjun: put should work without lifting
2022-04-10 18:30:47 +0000 <maerwald> :t put
2022-04-10 18:30:48 +0000 <lambdabot> MonadState s m => s -> m ()
2022-04-10 18:30:56 +0000 <maerwald> put :: Monad m => s -> StateT s m ()
2022-04-10 18:31:30 +0000 <maerwald> mtl might be confusing here
2022-04-10 18:32:10 +0000 <arjun> thanks maerwald
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2022-04-10 18:38:00 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2022-04-10 18:41:00 +0000 <maerwald> I realise I don't have a good tutorial link for transformers
2022-04-10 18:41:51 +0000deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.231.228)
2022-04-10 18:41:55 +0000 <maerwald> arjun: have you written ReaderT/StateT by hand?
2022-04-10 18:42:38 +0000 <arjun> can't remember :x
2022-04-10 18:42:56 +0000 <maerwald> newtype ReaderT r m a = ReaderT { runReaderT :: ??? }
2022-04-10 18:42:59 +0000 <maerwald> fill in ???
2022-04-10 18:43:33 +0000 <arjun> r -> m a ?
2022-04-10 18:43:48 +0000 <maerwald> right, now write Functor, Applicative and Monad instance
2022-04-10 18:44:56 +0000Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2022-04-10 18:45:18 +0000 <arjun> right, will do (tomorrow) it's 12:15 here, gotta catch some Zzz
2022-04-10 18:45:29 +0000 <maerwald> also, you'll like ContT
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2022-04-10 18:46:20 +0000 <arjun> i'll look into it, thanks
2022-04-10 18:46:43 +0000shriekingnoise(~shrieking@201.231.16.156)
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2022-04-10 18:52:21 +0000 <maerwald> next week ragequit and questions about polysemy :D
2022-04-10 18:52:37 +0000mon_aaraj(~MonAaraj@user/mon-aaraj/x-4416475) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2022-04-10 18:56:42 +0000 <maerwald> haskell and its rabbit holes
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2022-04-10 19:49:21 +0000 <acacia> hey, I want to write some tests for a web app and want to parse html to make sure the data embedded in it is as expected. What are my options? Any favorite package?
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2022-04-10 19:51:33 +0000 <geekosaur> how much do you trust the web app to be html compliant? if "not very" then tagsoup is the only sane choice
2022-04-10 19:51:47 +0000 <geekosaur> (there's a *lot* of invalid HTML out there)
2022-04-10 19:52:56 +0000califax(~califax@user/califx)
2022-04-10 19:54:07 +0000 <acacia> yeah it should be html compliant
2022-04-10 19:54:40 +0000 <acacia> that's not a problem, just looking for the easiest thing to use
2022-04-10 19:54:50 +0000 <acacia> I'll take a look at tagsoup. thanks
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2022-04-10 19:58:26 +0000ElVinzFR(~Guest20@2a01cb0c09c6d5008d17a4525baa2c11.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2022-04-10 19:59:58 +0000 <AdityaAlok[m]> Hello, everyone!... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/2f16d604c1b71ed6cb585c843567d0f15c6e…)
2022-04-10 20:00:23 +0000pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2022-04-10 20:00:49 +0000 <maerwald> tagsoup does not handle all invalid html well
2022-04-10 20:02:05 +0000 <sm> what's wrong with good old isInfixOf
2022-04-10 20:02:06 +0000seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-04-10 20:02:14 +0000 <geekosaur> AdityaAlok[m], you would need to link against a wrapper library, and probably need to find out why the indirection in the first place
2022-04-10 20:03:30 +0000 <maerwald> AdityaAlok[m]: very likely you have to patch the library
2022-04-10 20:03:37 +0000 <maerwald> and use capi instead of ccall
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2022-04-10 20:04:12 +0000 <maerwald> also see https://www.haskell.org/ghc/blog/20210709-capi-usage.html
2022-04-10 20:04:54 +0000 <maerwald> and https://github.com/haskell/unix/pull/110#issuecomment-613384845
2022-04-10 20:04:58 +0000 <maerwald> as an example
2022-04-10 20:04:59 +0000 <AdityaAlok[m]> maerwald: Thank you! I'll try it.
2022-04-10 20:05:02 +0000 <maerwald> why ccall is bad
2022-04-10 20:05:38 +0000 <maerwald> capi follows include indirections
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2022-04-10 20:26:08 +0000seydar(~seydar@154-27-113-252.starry-inc.net)
2022-04-10 20:26:41 +0000 <ElVinzFR> Beginner. I want to create a "loop" in which the user input a value, then a state is changed (for a toy example, an update in a component in a vector). I thought I could use a recursion in an IO monad, but apparently there is not tail recursion optimization for a monad. What would be the easiest way for me to code my problem ? This would be the
2022-04-10 20:26:42 +0000 <ElVinzFR> starting point to code a game, so I need a cycle of input / state change.
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2022-04-10 20:30:42 +0000 <ElVinzFR> I am a bit lost, so even pointing to a tutorial, or a snippet online would be an improvement.
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2022-04-10 20:34:39 +0000 <c_wraith> ElVinzFR: the fact that combining IO actions with >> or >>= isn't tail recursive doesn't mean it isn't efficient. It is efficient.
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2022-04-10 20:40:45 +0000 <geekosaur> "tail recursion" is not what you think it is in Haskell.
2022-04-10 20:41:25 +0000 <geekosaur> (in fact, everything is tail recursive at the graph reduction level)
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2022-04-10 20:57:00 +0000 <monochrom> But tail recursion in IO such as "main = do { putStrLn "hello"; main }" works as expected.
2022-04-10 20:57:59 +0000floof(~floof@2a02:6b64:f147:0:186:8bed:1973:c563)
2022-04-10 21:01:28 +0000 <shachaf> Despite the main not being in tail position!
2022-04-10 21:01:39 +0000 <c_wraith> well. it's not tail recursion. it's just efficient recursion
2022-04-10 21:01:56 +0000 <shachaf> I think the analogy to tail recursion is pretty reasonable.
2022-04-10 21:02:20 +0000floof(~floof@2a02:6b64:f147:0:186:8bed:1973:c563) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-04-10 21:02:31 +0000 <c_wraith> IO happens to work out that way. Not every implementation of (>>=) is so cooperative with that analogy
2022-04-10 21:03:08 +0000 <hpc> tail recursion is a special case of efficient recursion :P
2022-04-10 21:03:14 +0000geekosaurchecks to see if you've scared the OP away yet :)
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2022-04-10 21:08:20 +0000brandonh(brandonh@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/brandonh)
2022-04-10 21:08:25 +0000 <monochrom> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2007-May/025591.html
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2022-04-10 21:14:27 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-04-10 21:17:25 +0000hpc. o O ( tail recursion is whenever the recursive call doesn't grow the call stack, and if you don't have a call stack there's no such thing as tail recursion )
2022-04-10 21:18:05 +0000 <dolio> One of the problems is that people insist on talking about "recursion".
2022-04-10 21:18:40 +0000 <monochrom> IMO renaming "call stack" to "evaluation stack" and concluding "I have no call stack" is just being smug.
2022-04-10 21:19:01 +0000 <hpc> monochrom: well, let's consider that
2022-04-10 21:19:15 +0000 <dolio> Also they don't study Scheme, I guess, which has all sorts of procedures that specify that various arguments are "in tail position" even though they are not in tail position from a very naive syntactic reading.
2022-04-10 21:19:21 +0000 <hpc> on the evaluation stack, what kind of "to evaluate this, i need to evaluate that" doesn't grow the stack
2022-04-10 21:19:42 +0000 <hpc> i think the only thing is <<loop>>
2022-04-10 21:20:01 +0000 <hpc> but i could be wrong
2022-04-10 21:20:10 +0000floof(~floof@2a02:6b64:f147:0:186:8bed:1973:c563)
2022-04-10 21:21:07 +0000 <shachaf> In an imperative language turning tail recursion into a jump seems like a pretty pointless optimization, since you can just write "while (true) { }" around your function body to get the same effect.
2022-04-10 21:21:27 +0000 <shachaf> Other tail calls are probably more useful (though I'd still rather have it be explicit than done as an optimization, usually).
2022-04-10 21:22:18 +0000 <dolio> Well, that's easy. It's not an optimization. The compiler has to do it.
2022-04-10 21:22:19 +0000 <hpc> from the evaluation stack's perspective, something like an infinite list isn't even recursion - there's a constructor in the way that breaks it up
2022-04-10 21:22:43 +0000 <hpc> like a trampoline
2022-04-10 21:22:59 +0000 <shachaf> Yes, that seems fine, I mean in a language like C where it's an optional optimization.
2022-04-10 21:23:29 +0000 <dolio> Yeah, well, gaining an understanding of this from C compilers is not good.
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