2022/03/12

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2022-03-12 00:06:44 +0000 <jackdk> Dillo (old, lightweight web browser) used to do that on its tab labels - was a cool trick
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2022-03-12 00:15:47 +0000 <hololeap> agda... never heard of it. you mean gd?
2022-03-12 00:20:15 +0000 <int-e> c[e]r[ea]l, meet c[u]rl
2022-03-12 00:21:05 +0000jackson99(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
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2022-03-12 03:59:40 +0000FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
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2022-03-12 05:11:03 +0000 <hololeap> what's the highest level entry point into the Cabal library that will let me parse a .cabal file?
2022-03-12 05:12:54 +0000lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-12 05:14:06 +0000Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) (Quit: The BNC has broken!)
2022-03-12 05:14:31 +0000alMalsamolumberjack123
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2022-03-12 05:19:27 +0000idnar(sid12240@debian/mithrandi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-03-12 05:19:28 +0000bradparker(sid262931@id-262931.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-12 05:19:28 +0000amir(sid22336@user/amir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-03-12 05:19:32 +0000 <hololeap> this looks like what I'm looking for: Distribution.PackageDescription.Parsec.readGenericPackageDescription
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2022-03-12 09:09:25 +0000 <euprogramista> hi there. could someone give me a hand to understand this idea from LYAH? list like [1,2,3] can be viewed as a computation that can't decide on which result it wants to have, so it presents us with all of the possible results
2022-03-12 09:09:57 +0000 <euprogramista> the author mentions that a list is a non-deterministic value. this doesn't make sense to me
2022-03-12 09:10:16 +0000 <euprogramista> It also says: A value like 100 or "what" can be viewed as a deterministic computation
2022-03-12 09:10:24 +0000 <c_wraith> euprogramista: That is a way to view lists, but it's... a bit weird
2022-03-12 09:10:39 +0000 <c_wraith> Like, sometimes it makes sense.
2022-03-12 09:10:44 +0000 <c_wraith> But it's hardly universal.
2022-03-12 09:10:46 +0000 <euprogramista> so it's not me that sees that it's weird?
2022-03-12 09:10:57 +0000 <c_wraith> Sometimes [1,2,3] is just 3 values.
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2022-03-12 09:11:20 +0000 <c_wraith> But it is a way to conceptual what's going on with []'s monad instance.
2022-03-12 09:11:26 +0000 <c_wraith> *conceptualize
2022-03-12 09:12:08 +0000 <euprogramista> it gets even more weird when he says that "what" can be viewed as deterministic computation. "what" is a list of Char, so it should at least fall in the same idea of [1,2,3] to me
2022-03-12 09:13:17 +0000 <c_wraith> Like I said - you can look at it either way
2022-03-12 09:14:29 +0000 <c_wraith> But it's really only natural to think of it that way when you're looking at []'s monad instance from viewpoint that's sort of inside the model
2022-03-12 09:15:41 +0000 <c_wraith> Like, what's happening when you use `x <- foo :: [Int]' inside a do block? well, x is getting a value. What value? Every value inside foo.
2022-03-12 09:15:52 +0000 <c_wraith> You can think of that as a type of non-determinism
2022-03-12 09:17:20 +0000 <c_wraith> but [] isn't especially *good* for that. It's ordered, which makes it impossible to use for any kind of infinite non-deterministic calculation
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2022-03-12 09:25:53 +0000 <euprogramista> c_wraith: I think it makes more sense now. thanks for helping
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2022-03-12 10:15:34 +0000 <kuribas> nice, I found I could remove the phantom types and GADTs, and not loose much safety (if anything at all).
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2022-03-12 10:23:24 +0000 <maerwald> remove from where
2022-03-12 10:23:44 +0000eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:450f:4341:cc7f:7cce)
2022-03-12 10:23:55 +0000cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20)
2022-03-12 10:24:02 +0000 <kuribas> my code.
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2022-03-12 10:33:03 +0000 <kuribas> I could lift the type level stuff into value level.
2022-03-12 10:34:26 +0000shailangsa(~shailangs@host165-120-169-51.range165-120.btcentralplus.com)
2022-03-12 10:35:37 +0000 <kuribas> faith in (mostly) simpe haskell restored :)
2022-03-12 10:36:28 +0000 <int-e> next... simplify your code by abandoning types and embracing unsafeCoerce
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2022-03-12 10:59:07 +0000 <siers> ski, I later realized that I might be conflating things, hence the "logic is tough" later on
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2022-03-12 11:48:25 +0000 <rembo10> I'm having a little trouble parsing vcards with megaparsec. A long line can be indented on the next line with a space, but that content can also start with a space... and I'm not really sure how to parse that case
2022-03-12 11:49:02 +0000 <rembo10> e.g. "this is a\r\n long line" (with 2 spaces)
2022-03-12 11:49:39 +0000 <rembo10> It just ends up dropping both spaces
2022-03-12 11:50:05 +0000merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-12 11:54:18 +0000Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2022-03-12 11:54:50 +0000 <rembo10> Like I'm not really sure how to set the indent to 1 space, but also allow a space at the start of the data
2022-03-12 12:00:25 +0000 <maerwald> kuribas: but how you gonna write a cool blog post about type level programming now?
2022-03-12 12:00:36 +0000 <maerwald> and how it fixed all your business problems
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2022-03-12 13:27:40 +0000 <kuribas> maerwald: I'll use idris :)
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2022-03-12 13:32:02 +0000 <geekosaur> a wise choice
2022-03-12 13:33:18 +0000 <kuribas> oh nice, i can represent a zip over records using Traversable.
2022-03-12 13:35:16 +0000 <kuribas> zipRecord :: Traversable r => (a -> b -> c) -> r a -> r b -> r c
2022-03-12 13:35:24 +0000Topsi(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-019-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
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2022-03-12 13:35:39 +0000 <kuribas> assuming r is a record with a constant number of elements.
2022-03-12 13:36:51 +0000yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-12 13:38:17 +0000 <kuribas> no generics needed.
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2022-03-12 14:37:00 +0000 <kuribas> ah, it seem I do loose a lot of safety...
2022-03-12 14:37:26 +0000 <kuribas> Now my toplevel record looks like Toplevel { foo :: f, bar :: f, baz :: f}.
2022-03-12 14:37:35 +0000 <kuribas> No info about the type of f...
2022-03-12 14:37:45 +0000 <kuribas> Still better than clojure I guess...
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2022-03-12 14:55:59 +0000 <Hud> hi all, looking at how to create diagrams using text, something like those shown in https://kroki.io/#features - what diagram type is best for haskell?
2022-03-12 14:55:59 +0000 <mreh> I'm trying to make an extensible cache interface, where any type can be serialised/parsed into a cache table. Could I maybe use a single function definition each for saving and loading data with a type family definition for each type to be cached?
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2022-03-12 14:56:38 +0000[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-03-12 14:56:54 +0000 <geekosaur> sounds morelike a typeclass than a typefamily to me?
2022-03-12 14:57:25 +0000 <mreh> geekosaur: well I was thinking something like this
2022-03-12 14:57:37 +0000 <mreh> type Key = Text
2022-03-12 14:57:37 +0000 <mreh> readCache :: Symbol -> Key -> IO (CacheableType Symbol)
2022-03-12 14:57:37 +0000 <mreh> writeCache :: Symbol -> Key -> CacheableType Symbol -> IO ()
2022-03-12 14:57:59 +0000yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-12 14:58:25 +0000 <mreh> how else would it know what type to decode to, isn't it dependen't on a value, like the Symbol here?
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2022-03-12 15:01:52 +0000romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2022-03-12 15:01:59 +0000 <romesrf> Hello!
2022-03-12 15:02:09 +0000 <romesrf> What is your preferred way of doing this kind of case matching ?
2022-03-12 15:02:11 +0000 <romesrf> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hAKE6uAd
2022-03-12 15:02:21 +0000 <romesrf> I was thinking there might be a cleaner way
2022-03-12 15:04:28 +0000pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
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2022-03-12 15:09:13 +0000 <geekosaur> getArgs >>= \case … ?
2022-03-12 15:11:00 +0000 <geekosaur> of course that doesn't work too well if you need to get at the other arguments as well; but by that point you may want to graduate to optparse-applicative or cmdargs or etc.
2022-03-12 15:12:12 +0000 <jackson99> it works well enough for simple cases. ie ["--option", arg]. but yes, for more complex things optparse-applicative is nicer, and you get --help for free
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2022-03-12 15:14:32 +0000 <geekosaur> mreh, if it's dependent on a value then you may be making a mistake in using Haskell instead of e.g. Idris
2022-03-12 15:15:16 +0000yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-12 15:15:47 +0000 <geekosaur> but note that Symbol is a kind, not a type, and it is inhabited by types,not values
2022-03-12 15:16:12 +0000 <geekosaur> I suspect you're going to tie yourself into knots trying to make that implementation work
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2022-03-12 15:24:21 +0000 <mreh> geekosaur: I was under the impressions that depdendent types were "working" in Haskell, with the right extensions
2022-03-12 15:25:02 +0000 <geekosaur> not yet
2022-03-12 15:25:08 +0000 <mreh> and yeah, I suppose Symbol is a kind really
2022-03-12 15:25:42 +0000 <geekosaur> possibly you could make that work with a forall sym -> … (in 9.2 at least) but I think all you can thyen do with sym is use it in a TypeApplication
2022-03-12 15:26:16 +0000 <geekosaur> this really is more an Idris kind of thing
2022-03-12 15:26:46 +0000yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-12 15:27:09 +0000 <mreh> I was watching Stefanie Weirich make type safe regular expressions in Haskell with dependent typing
2022-03-12 15:27:25 +0000 <mreh> Seems like there's a lot done
2022-03-12 15:29:27 +0000 <kuribas> mreh: "working". What haskell has can at best emulate some of the behaviour of DT. It definitely doesn't have DT.
2022-03-12 15:29:32 +0000 <geekosaur> I wonder if you want to look at the dependent-map package
2022-03-12 15:30:22 +0000 <mreh> but what's missing? It doesn't have pi types, but you can simulate them
2022-03-12 15:30:30 +0000 <geekosaur> and, definitely what kuribas said
2022-03-12 15:31:14 +0000 <kuribas> mreh: DT means that types are just normal values, and you can write function over them.
2022-03-12 15:31:46 +0000 <kuribas> mreh: in haskell, you need to use type families in order to write a function over a type.
2022-03-12 15:31:55 +0000yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-44-111.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-12 15:32:07 +0000 <geekosaur> that was where this started out, actually
2022-03-12 15:32:11 +0000 <kuribas> mreh: it's just one example.
2022-03-12 15:32:18 +0000 <geekosaur> I still think it sounds more like a typeclass
2022-03-12 15:32:47 +0000Graham31415(~Graham314@213.237.95.25) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-03-12 15:32:54 +0000 <mreh> it could be
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2022-03-12 15:34:56 +0000 <mreh> kuribas: okay
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2022-03-12 15:51:01 +0000 <byorgey> Hud: not sure exactly what you're asking. Why not just use kroki in the first place? And if you need to do it from within a Haskell program, you could still use the kroki API perhaps?
2022-03-12 15:52:38 +0000 <Midjak> Hi anyone which is familiar with haskell LSP in Emacs. I tried servant tutorial and I am stuck with this issue https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant/issues/1559 . Any idea ?
2022-03-12 15:53:19 +0000 <Midjak> tried several hie.yaml configuration without succeed
2022-03-12 15:56:09 +0000 <byorgey> Midjak: try deleting .ghc/<whatever_version>/environments/default ?
2022-03-12 15:56:28 +0000zincy_(~zincy@host86-160-236-152.range86-160.btcentralplus.com)
2022-03-12 15:57:19 +0000 <byorgey> Took me a long time to finally find that suggestion when that was happening to me.
2022-03-12 15:57:51 +0000 <Midjak> byorgey, well I am not sure of the effect of this. I have haskell installed with ghcup. Is there an impact on the installation to remove this ?
2022-03-12 15:58:14 +0000 <geekosaur> generally no; you should usually not be installing stuff in a way that would create that file
2022-03-12 15:58:25 +0000 <geekosaur> it's far more likely to make messes than to help
2022-03-12 15:59:47 +0000tdammers(~tdammers@77.109.72.177.res.static.edpnet.net)
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2022-03-12 16:00:14 +0000 <byorgey> Midjak: should have no effect.
2022-03-12 16:00:53 +0000 <Midjak> ok it works
2022-03-12 16:01:00 +0000 <Midjak> Why ?
2022-03-12 16:01:12 +0000 <byorgey> I wish I knew.
2022-03-12 16:01:21 +0000 <Midjak> what is this folder ?
2022-03-12 16:01:33 +0000 <Midjak> :-) byorgey
2022-03-12 16:01:41 +0000 <maerwald> Midjak: you installed stuff via `cabal install --lib`?
2022-03-12 16:01:56 +0000 <maerwald> that creates a global environment file that now all cabal invocations share
2022-03-12 16:02:17 +0000 <maerwald> that can severly mess with builds
2022-03-12 16:02:36 +0000 <byorgey> aha, TIL
2022-03-12 16:02:47 +0000 <Midjak> no I have just tried `stack new test-servant servant`
2022-03-12 16:03:10 +0000 <maerwald> I'm not aware of stack creating that file
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2022-03-12 16:04:58 +0000 <Midjak> like here https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/tutorial/install.html
2022-03-12 16:06:09 +0000 <Midjak> perhaps it is a folder which is here for long time
2022-03-12 16:06:37 +0000 <Midjak> I don't get the relation with lsp and hie
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2022-03-12 16:07:36 +0000lumberjack123(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-12 16:08:14 +0000 <Midjak> 🤯
2022-03-12 16:09:26 +0000 <Midjak> is .ghc/<whatever_version>/environments/default documented somewhere ?
2022-03-12 16:10:30 +0000zer0bitz_(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng32-54fbf8-224.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-12 16:11:40 +0000 <geekosaur> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/packages.html#package-environments
2022-03-12 16:12:02 +0000 <Midjak> thanks geekosaur
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2022-03-12 16:13:42 +0000coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Quit: coot)
2022-03-12 16:14:33 +0000 <Midjak> If I want to have a good overview about how cabal, stack and GHC works together. What should I read firstly ?
2022-03-12 16:14:37 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2022-03-12 16:15:57 +0000mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-12 16:17:50 +0000 <geekosaur> sclv is probably the best person to ask about that. or ask in #hackage maybe
2022-03-12 16:17:50 +0000vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-03-12 16:18:12 +0000merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-12 16:19:39 +0000 <Midjak> oh there is a chan for hackage ok
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2022-03-12 16:24:43 +0000 <sclv> Midjak: https://gist.github.com/merijn/8152d561fb8b011f9313c48d876ceb07
2022-03-12 16:27:59 +0000 <Midjak> nice thank you sclv
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2022-03-12 17:11:08 +0000 <kuribas> How do I make GADT record syntax?
2022-03-12 17:11:20 +0000 <kuribas> I have "data FeatureSQL f where FeatureSQL { ..."
2022-03-12 17:11:37 +0000 <kuribas> well "data FeatureSQL f where FeatureSQL { ...} -> FeatureSQL f"
2022-03-12 17:11:46 +0000 <kuribas> it's having syntax error on '{'
2022-03-12 17:12:41 +0000 <monochrom> FeatureSQL :: { ... } -> FeatureSQL f
2022-03-12 17:13:21 +0000 <kuribas> that works, thanks!
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2022-03-12 17:48:51 +0000 <hpc> on the topic of that gadt question, it would be nice if you could use that syntax for regular functions too
2022-03-12 17:49:08 +0000 <hpc> so instead of having to write runFoo defaultOptions {...} you just write runFoo {...}
2022-03-12 17:49:43 +0000 <hpc> and what runFoo can do is right there in its type signature instead of off in this other data definition
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2022-03-12 18:38:48 +0000 <hololeap> this is a really good album: https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/album/the-four-horsemen-of-the-electrocalypse
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2022-03-12 18:39:04 +0000 <hololeap> oops wrong channel haha
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2022-03-12 19:05:04 +0000 <sm> good to know
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2022-03-12 21:49:54 +0000 <maerwald> "Module `Prelude' does not export `(<>)'"
2022-03-12 21:50:03 +0000 <maerwald> I wonder how many manhours these things have wasted
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2022-03-12 23:23:20 +0000steven1(~steven@172.92.136.203)
2022-03-12 23:24:53 +0000 <steven1> hello, let's say I have a Monad stack with IO as base called AppM, and a few functions of type AppM (STM ()). Is it possible for me to atomically compose these functions? e.g. foo :: AppM (STM ()), bar :: AppM (STM()), is there some way to do `atomically $ foo >> bar` ?
2022-03-12 23:25:21 +0000 <steven1> clearly what I wrote doesn't type check, but not sure if there's a way to compose these things
2022-03-12 23:26:12 +0000 <steven1> what I did is something like `do foo' <- foo; bar' <- bar; liftIO $ atomically $ foo' >> bar'` but it seems verbose
2022-03-12 23:30:21 +0000 <steven1> I guess I need something like liftSTM with type STM a -> IO a, which matches the type of atomically but is not the same thing
2022-03-12 23:32:08 +0000 <steven1> hmm maybe unsafePrimToIO, no clue if it will do what I want though
2022-03-12 23:36:30 +0000Inst(~Liam@c-98-208-218-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
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2022-03-12 23:42:12 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-12 23:42:31 +0000 <hololeap> do { x <- foo ; y <- bar ; liftIO $ atomically $ x >> y } :: AppM ()
2022-03-12 23:42:39 +0000 <hololeap> assuming AppM has a MonadIO instance
2022-03-12 23:43:04 +0000 <jackdk> I think your conjectured `liftSTM` breaks the STM abstraction
2022-03-12 23:44:05 +0000 <hololeap> ha I literally just repeated your code. sorry, I can't read
2022-03-12 23:45:11 +0000 <steven1> jackdk: yeah, I was kind of thinking that's the case
2022-03-12 23:45:14 +0000 <jackdk> You've constructed some strange-looking types which I haven't used when I last used STM: you have actions `foo` and `bar` which decide on some STM swizzling to do, and the you want to fuse them into a transaction and run it. It feels like every bit of that is said by the code you wrote, without much additional fluff
2022-03-12 23:45:48 +0000 <steven1> so foo and bar are really just doing reader stuff (getting a TChan from the reader state)
2022-03-12 23:45:58 +0000 <steven1> so they should be fine to run inside the transaction
2022-03-12 23:46:16 +0000 <jackdk> It looks like the combined transaction is `liftA2 (*>) foo bar`
2022-03-12 23:46:50 +0000 <steven1> hm I guess so
2022-03-12 23:46:56 +0000 <steven1> let me double check
2022-03-12 23:47:03 +0000 <hololeap> you can use the version of 'atomically' from UnliftIO.STM which would make the 'liftIO' redundant
2022-03-12 23:47:43 +0000 <jackdk> I was about to suggest defining `atomically = liftIO . STM.atomically` somewhere to cut noise but yeah that sounds fine
2022-03-12 23:48:04 +0000 <jackdk> at which point you have `atomically $ liftA2 (*>) foo bar`
2022-03-12 23:48:36 +0000acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f5489cda852442edc84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-12 23:48:55 +0000 <steven1> right I think I'm seeing now
2022-03-12 23:49:02 +0000 <steven1> I think I just need atomically <$> do foo; bar;
2022-03-12 23:49:48 +0000merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-12 23:50:44 +0000 <steven1> wait that's not it
2022-03-12 23:50:51 +0000boborygmy_(~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-12 23:50:57 +0000 <hololeap> liftA2 (*>) foo bar >>= atomically
2022-03-12 23:50:59 +0000 <hololeap> right?
2022-03-12 23:51:27 +0000boborygmy__(~bob@pool-173-54-217-168.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-12 23:51:49 +0000 <jackdk> Think so. Does it typecheck? Because I'm used to seeing the atomically at the start of an expr, I would probably flip it around with `=<<`
2022-03-12 23:51:57 +0000 <steven1> lemme try
2022-03-12 23:52:10 +0000 <steven1> but basically next I'm trying to use do notation and bind values
2022-03-12 23:52:36 +0000 <steven1> yeah that works so far
2022-03-12 23:55:00 +0000acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7049f5489cda852442edc84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-03-12 23:55:16 +0000 <steven1> I was trying `liftA2 (>>=) foo (\f -> bar) >>= atomically` but that doesn't seem to work
2022-03-12 23:56:06 +0000 <steven1> liftA2 (>>=) is confusing me haha, I need to think about this
2022-03-12 23:56:28 +0000 <steven1> ah I see why it doesn't work
2022-03-12 23:56:30 +0000 <hololeap> :t liftA2 (>>=)
2022-03-12 23:56:31 +0000 <lambdabot> (Monad m, Applicative f) => f (m a) -> f (a -> m b) -> f (m b)
2022-03-12 23:56:42 +0000 <steven1> yeah