IRCBrowse

2022/03/02

2022-03-02 00:00:54 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-03-02 00:23:55 +0100k8yun(~k8yun@user/k8yun) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 00:24:53 +0100 <jackdk> if GHC HEAD is on text-1.2.4.2 (according to https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history ) and text is a boot library, how can I test my package for compatibility with text ^>= 2.0, which `cabal outdated` says is available on hackage?
2022-03-02 00:25:13 +0100wombat875(~wombat875@pool-72-89-24-154.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-02 00:26:18 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183)
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2022-03-02 00:32:28 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2022-03-02 00:37:32 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 00:37:51 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109)
2022-03-02 00:38:13 +0100 <geekosaur> it's safe to use a later version of text
2022-03-02 00:38:23 +0100 <geekosaur> ghc only bumps its when it needs to
2022-03-02 00:38:34 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f91c:5353:babe:c5fb) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 00:38:36 +0100 <geekosaur> both stack and cabal v2+ will get this right for you
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2022-03-02 00:42:27 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 00:42:40 +0100 <jackdk> okay cool, thanks geekosaur
2022-03-02 00:42:42 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2022-03-02 00:43:37 +0100 <geekosaur> the realworry is when ghc exposes apis from boot packages
2022-03-02 00:43:49 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-02 00:43:52 +0100 <geekosaur> but no ghc api uses Text so you're fine
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2022-03-02 00:45:43 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-02 00:45:46 +0100ChanServ+o litharge
2022-03-02 00:45:47 +0100litharge+b *!*@98.38.249.169
2022-03-02 00:45:48 +0100lavamanlitharge (You are banned from this channel (by geekosaur))
2022-03-02 00:45:58 +0100litharge-o litharge
2022-03-02 00:46:09 +0100 <geekosaur> huh, it's a bit more verbose now. wish it gave the reason
2022-03-02 00:46:19 +0100 <geekosaur> (instability)
2022-03-02 00:46:21 +0100 <Axman6> If only we could do that with real lava :(
2022-03-02 00:46:29 +0100 <jackdk> I'd settle for doing it with rain
2022-03-02 00:46:48 +0100 <monochrom> I want bat >:)
2022-03-02 00:47:03 +0100 <Axman6> good luck jackdk!
2022-03-02 00:47:13 +0100 <monochrom> lalalalalalalala {lava, bat}man!
2022-03-02 00:48:08 +0100 <monochrom> Poll: Which one do you prefer, "(la)^n lavaman!" or "(la)^n batman!"? >:)
2022-03-02 00:48:33 +0100 <Axman6> la => lavaman, na => batman
2022-03-02 00:49:44 +0100cynomys(~cynomys@user/cynomys) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-02 00:49:59 +0100 <monochrom> That's nicer :)
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2022-03-02 01:15:47 +0100ChanServ+o litharge
2022-03-02 01:15:47 +0100litharge-bo *!*@98.38.249.169 litharge
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2022-03-02 01:44:59 +0100thebunnyaccount0(~thebunnya@12.231.173.250)
2022-03-02 01:48:31 +0100 <thebunnyaccount0> this doesn't let you see chat history does it? first time using one of these
2022-03-02 01:49:09 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com)
2022-03-02 01:49:41 +0100 <monochrom> The IRC servers don't keep history. But someone else do, see the "topic" line for the URL.
2022-03-02 01:50:19 +0100 <thebunnyaccount0> thank you!
2022-03-02 01:50:29 +0100 <monochrom> More precisely, someone volunteered to take and post logs for this channel.
2022-03-02 01:50:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 01:51:06 +0100 <thebunnyaccount0> is this where a lot of haskell still congregates? first time learning it and  the book i'm reading alludes to that
2022-03-02 01:51:21 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f91c:5353:babe:c5fb)
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2022-03-02 01:52:14 +0100 <monochrom> Yes. But we no longer have the monopoly. (We used to.) There are now also a subreddit and the discourse.haskell.org web forum.
2022-03-02 01:52:43 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-03-02 01:53:17 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com)
2022-03-02 01:55:02 +0100 <thebunnyaccount0> awesome, appreciate the insight
2022-03-02 01:55:45 +0100 <Axman6> This is usually the fastest place to get help though
2022-03-02 01:56:58 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
2022-03-02 02:03:37 +0100ridcully_(~ridcully@pd951f433.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2022-03-02 02:04:01 +0100 <thebunnyaccount0> thanks :)
2022-03-02 02:06:45 +0100zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a30d:1300:51a3:bcfc:6cda:9fc5) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2022-03-02 02:07:33 +0100 <Axman6> How on earth people can complain about GHC's type errors when Scala exists I will never know. what an absolute trashfire
2022-03-02 02:08:08 +0100x_kuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
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2022-03-02 02:09:20 +0100 <geekosaur> that it can be done worse doesn't mean it can't be done better
2022-03-02 02:09:57 +0100xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-02 02:11:01 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 02:12:05 +0100 <Axman6> yeah, but it's people who use scala that I hear claiming it's bad. Like fix your own house first
2022-03-02 02:12:40 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps they complain about scala in scala forums too? :)
2022-03-02 02:14:21 +0100cynomys(~cynomys@user/cynomys)
2022-03-02 02:14:23 +0100 <monochrom> Then again there is always the alternative hypothesis that they mean "do it the scala way" :)
2022-03-02 02:14:31 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2022-03-02 02:15:56 +0100 <monochrom> I am very conservative about complaining about GHC type error messages. About the only time when I respect such a complaint was when the author showed a comparable Rust case.
2022-03-02 02:17:06 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2022-03-02 02:17:17 +0100mniip(mniip@libera/staff/mniip)
2022-03-02 02:17:23 +0100yahb(xsbot@user/mniip/bot/yahb)
2022-03-02 02:17:30 +0100 <monochrom> Apart from that, most complaints I saw are anedotally short-sighted.
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2022-03-02 02:25:55 +0100anon44409248(~anon44409@host-92-19-97-204.as13285.net)
2022-03-02 02:26:07 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
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2022-03-02 02:26:22 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183)
2022-03-02 02:28:24 +0100 <anon44409248> I previously installed haskell via ghcup but now it seems whenever I try to type ghci on the terminal it says command not found, I opened up vscode where I was previously writing code in and it couldn't find haskell, saying it wasn't installed, when I tried to reinstall it I get this error: "_eghcup upgrade" failed!
2022-03-02 02:29:00 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-02 02:29:17 +0100 <anon44409248> has anyone else had this issue before?
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2022-03-02 02:39:00 +0100thebunnyaccount0(~thebunnya@12.231.173.250)
2022-03-02 02:40:11 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
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2022-03-02 02:41:48 +0100deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.231.103)
2022-03-02 02:42:56 +0100 <Artem[m]> anon44409248: purge `~/.ghcup` and install ghcup again? And then ghc...
2022-03-02 02:43:11 +0100Me-me(~me-me@tunnel690570-pt.tunnel.tserv12.mia1.ipv6.he.net) (Changing host)
2022-03-02 02:43:11 +0100Me-me(~me-me@user/me-me)
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2022-03-02 02:45:18 +0100 <anon44409248> Artem[m]: should I move to bin? or is purge a terminal command?
2022-03-02 02:45:38 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com)
2022-03-02 02:46:12 +0100deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.231.103) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 02:46:32 +0100 <Artem[m]> anon44409248: sorry, I meant `rm -rf ~/ghcup`
2022-03-02 02:46:41 +0100 <Artem[m]> s/~//~/./
2022-03-02 02:46:53 +0100 <Artem[m]> s/~//~/./
2022-03-02 02:47:30 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e)
2022-03-02 02:47:35 +0100 <anon44409248> I moved to bin and try to run the curl command again but I get this https://paste.tomsmeding.com/8gnmqm3r
2022-03-02 02:48:29 +0100 <geekosaur> uh
2022-03-02 02:48:40 +0100 <geekosaur> "Killed: 9" is baaaad
2022-03-02 02:48:53 +0100 <Artem[m]> Could you do the rm command i ahowed above and confirm that .ghcup does not exist before doing ciel?
2022-03-02 02:48:56 +0100 <geekosaur> you'll have to check the kernel log to see what did it
2022-03-02 02:49:00 +0100 <Artem[m]> s/ciel/curl/
2022-03-02 02:49:08 +0100 <anon44409248> wait what
2022-03-02 02:49:13 +0100 <Artem[m]> s/ahowed/showed/, s/ciel/curl/
2022-03-02 02:49:21 +0100 <anon44409248> ok
2022-03-02 02:50:46 +0100 <anon44409248> ok I ran the rm -rf ~/.ghcup
2022-03-02 02:51:07 +0100 <anon44409248> geekosaur: why is kill 9 bad?
2022-03-02 02:51:33 +0100 <anon44409248> what is ciel?
2022-03-02 02:51:38 +0100 <geekosaur> a typo for curl
2022-03-02 02:51:47 +0100 <anon44409248> oh
2022-03-02 02:52:06 +0100 <anon44409248> So I've done the rm -rf ~/.ghcup, I will now try to reinstall it
2022-03-02 02:52:08 +0100 <anon44409248> right?
2022-03-02 02:52:17 +0100 <Artem[m]> Yep
2022-03-02 02:52:28 +0100 <geekosaur> anyway signal 9 usually means something like a missing shared object, or using too much memory and the OOM killer got it, or some other violation of system policies
2022-03-02 02:53:51 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 02:54:12 +0100 <anon44409248> it doesn't seem to work https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tPboxOtr
2022-03-02 02:54:36 +0100 <anon44409248> what's a missing shared object? what's an OOM killer?
2022-03-02 02:54:44 +0100 <geekosaur> oh boy
2022-03-02 02:55:09 +0100 <anon44409248> ??
2022-03-02 02:55:15 +0100 <anon44409248> man, you're worrying me
2022-03-02 02:55:20 +0100 <anon44409248> :(
2022-03-02 02:55:29 +0100MironZ(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 02:55:43 +0100MironZ(~MironZ@nat-infra.ehlab.uk)
2022-03-02 02:55:52 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com)
2022-03-02 02:55:53 +0100 <geekosaur> just because I don't know what you do and don't know about linux
2022-03-02 02:55:59 +0100 <geekosaur> which makes explaining things harder
2022-03-02 02:56:19 +0100 <anon44409248> is my mac done for?
2022-03-02 02:56:27 +0100 <geekosaur> no
2022-03-02 02:56:32 +0100 <anon44409248> ok
2022-03-02 02:56:35 +0100thebunnyaccount0(~thebunnya@12.231.173.250) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-03-02 02:56:40 +0100 <geekosaur> oh this isn;t linux?
2022-03-02 02:57:00 +0100 <anon44409248> nope
2022-03-02 02:57:03 +0100 <geekosaur> that makes the "Killed:9" even more worrisome because Apple has alot more restrictive system policies
2022-03-02 02:57:22 +0100 <anon44409248> what sort of policies?
2022-03-02 02:57:33 +0100 <geekosaur> like "won't run untrusted programs"
2022-03-02 02:57:44 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 02:58:45 +0100 <geekosaur> someone has to spend $100 for a developer code-signing key and sign any program they expect other people to be able to run without having to switch off system security policy on their Mac
2022-03-02 02:59:09 +0100 <anon44409248> I literally had haskell installed 2 weeks ago working perfectly
2022-03-02 02:59:27 +0100 <anon44409248> this is a personal mac, I am the only user
2022-03-02 02:59:37 +0100 <geekosaur> could still be a shared object issue also but I'd expect it to complain about a missing dylib in that case
2022-03-02 02:59:39 +0100 <Artem[m]> anon44409248: do you have enough of space? https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/166
2022-03-02 03:00:44 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
2022-03-02 03:00:56 +0100 <anon44409248> I'm just reading through that but I have 156 gb available
2022-03-02 03:01:27 +0100 <Artem[m]> That should be enough
2022-03-02 03:01:39 +0100 <sm> anon44409248: I hit this recently, it was a ghcup bug. The latest binary was corrupt (stripped but not re-signed, so monterrey(?) rejects it). maerwald updated it though I though
2022-03-02 03:01:40 +0100 <sm> t
2022-03-02 03:01:59 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:02:11 +0100 <Artem[m]> Maybe opening a big report is in order...
2022-03-02 03:02:16 +0100 <anon44409248> I shouldn't have updated my mac
2022-03-02 03:02:18 +0100 <Artem[m]> s/big/bug/
2022-03-02 03:02:24 +0100 <anon44409248> I need to do a uni assignment
2022-03-02 03:02:27 +0100 <anon44409248> fml
2022-03-02 03:02:39 +0100 <sm> https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/318
2022-03-02 03:03:11 +0100 <anon44409248> anyway to downgrade it again?
2022-03-02 03:03:25 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
2022-03-02 03:04:36 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:04:44 +0100 <sm> I don't know.. here's the unstripped dev binary that worked for me: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/jobs/961167/artifacts/browse/out/
2022-03-02 03:06:51 +0100 <anon44409248> what do I do once I download it? when I try to open it I can that there is no application set to open the documents
2022-03-02 03:07:14 +0100Maxdaman1us(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus)
2022-03-02 03:07:45 +0100 <sm> 1. chmod +x it 2. try to run it 3. go to system preferences > security & privacy and mark it as approved 4. now it will run
2022-03-02 03:08:48 +0100 <sm> at your own risk of course. Unlikely it's compromised but don't take advice from the internet to override your OS safeguards...
2022-03-02 03:09:04 +0100 <anon44409248> but you trust it right?
2022-03-02 03:09:12 +0100 <sm> I did, yes
2022-03-02 03:09:39 +0100 <anon44409248> what do you mean by chmod +x it?
2022-03-02 03:10:04 +0100 <sm> in terminal, run: chmod +x THEBINARYFILE
2022-03-02 03:10:13 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@user/maxdamantus) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:10:13 +0100 <anon44409248> oh
2022-03-02 03:10:17 +0100 <sm> this gives it the "executable" permission
2022-03-02 03:11:08 +0100 <anon44409248> like this: ❯ chmod +x "aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5"
2022-03-02 03:11:13 +0100 <anon44409248> ?
2022-03-02 03:11:23 +0100 <sm> yes, if it's in your current directory
2022-03-02 03:11:35 +0100 <anon44409248> yeah I cd to downloads
2022-03-02 03:11:38 +0100 <sm> the quotes are fine but not needed since it has no spaces
2022-03-02 03:11:46 +0100komikat(~komikat@27.57.144.183)
2022-03-02 03:12:20 +0100 <sm> then to try to run it: ./aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5
2022-03-02 03:12:24 +0100 <anon44409248> ok so nothing happens
2022-03-02 03:14:37 +0100 <anon44409248> ok, need to change security settings
2022-03-02 03:14:48 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 03:14:51 +0100 <anon44409248> apple doesn't let me run it
2022-03-02 03:15:08 +0100 <sm> anon44409248: are you following my 4 step plan
2022-03-02 03:15:12 +0100niekvand1pas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 03:15:23 +0100 <sm> success is guaranteed
2022-03-02 03:15:24 +0100 <anon44409248> Yeah, but where do I mark is as approved?
2022-03-02 03:15:37 +0100 <anon44409248> it* as..
2022-03-02 03:16:00 +0100 <sm> "go to system preferences > security & privacy" - here you should see an option to approve it
2022-03-02 03:16:31 +0100 <anon44409248> omd
2022-03-02 03:17:19 +0100 <anon44409248> wait, what do I do now? it says missing command
2022-03-02 03:17:38 +0100 <sm> ...describe what you did ?
2022-03-02 03:18:04 +0100 <anon44409248> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/h8DOZeM4
2022-03-02 03:19:18 +0100 <anon44409248> ok I just tried ./[filename] install
2022-03-02 03:19:22 +0100 <sm> ok, now it's working perfectly and you just need to read the help. Eg, run it with `tui` argument
2022-03-02 03:19:53 +0100 <sm> but you probably want to rename it and put it in your PATH, eg: mv aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5 /usr/local/bin/ghcup
2022-03-02 03:19:58 +0100 <anon44409248> should I have not done install?
2022-03-02 03:20:09 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:20:36 +0100 <sm> tui is nicer
2022-03-02 03:20:36 +0100niekvand1pas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:20:55 +0100 <sm> gotta go, good luck
2022-03-02 03:21:46 +0100 <anon44409248> permission denied
2022-03-02 03:21:50 +0100 <anon44409248> f
2022-03-02 03:22:27 +0100 <sm> sudo mv aarch64-apple-darwin-ghcup-0.1.17.5 /usr/local/bin/ghcup , then
2022-03-02 03:25:54 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e)
2022-03-02 03:32:10 +0100 <anon44409248> how do I move it from /usr/local/bin/ghcup to /Users/sr ?
2022-03-02 03:38:13 +0100 <anon44409248> ghci is still not working :(
2022-03-02 03:41:04 +0100justAstache(~justache@user/justache) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2022-03-02 03:53:01 +0100neurocyte0917090(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 03:57:56 +0100 <sm> anon44409248: have you got to where the command "ghcup --version" works ?
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2022-03-02 06:19:57 +0100vysn(~vysn@user/vysn)
2022-03-02 06:21:37 +0100 <iqubic> So, I'm trying to install Taffybar on Arch Linux. Since it's not in the Arch repos, I need to figure out how to install Taffybar myself.
2022-03-02 06:21:40 +0100 <iqubic> How do I do this?
2022-03-02 06:21:59 +0100 <iqubic> The github repo mentions that I can just run "cabal install taffybar"
2022-03-02 06:23:44 +0100azimut_(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut)
2022-03-02 06:24:16 +0100azimut(~azimut@gateway/tor-sasl/azimut) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 06:24:43 +0100 <iqubic> Running "cabal install exe:taffybar" fails with this issue: https://dpaste.com/HUAGWH529
2022-03-02 06:24:58 +0100 <iqubic> Is this just some quirk of how Haskell works on Arch Linux?
2022-03-02 06:30:41 +0100 <sm> man.. "cabal hell" is alive and well
2022-03-02 06:30:47 +0100yauhsien(~Yau-Hsien@61-231-37-5.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-02 06:31:55 +0100 <sclv> iqubic: a dependency of taffybar cant build with the version of ghc you are using
2022-03-02 06:32:05 +0100 <iqubic> How can I deal with this?
2022-03-02 06:32:27 +0100 <iqubic> I'm using GHC 9.0.2
2022-03-02 06:32:37 +0100 <sm> iqubic: I'll just throw out a guess: your `ghc --version` in PATH is incompatible with these packages, use one that they were last released with
2022-03-02 06:33:24 +0100 <iqubic> How do I change the version of GHC I have on my system path? I'm using Arch Linux, btw.
2022-03-02 06:34:01 +0100 <sm> ghcup is one way, stack is another
2022-03-02 06:34:04 +0100 <int-e> So... evidently this isn't the hackage version of taffybar.
2022-03-02 06:34:24 +0100 <sclv> alternatively try using the hackage version of taffybar.
2022-03-02 06:34:51 +0100 <int-e> (does any version of cabal-install accept exe:foo instead of foo:exe?)
2022-03-02 06:34:55 +0100 <sclv> the github repo has, for some weird reason, a dep on a coinbase api which is causing the breakage
2022-03-02 06:35:33 +0100 <iqubic> int-e, you're right. I had cloned the taffybar repo and was running the "cabal install exe:taffybar" command in that repo.
2022-03-02 06:36:17 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 06:38:03 +0100 <iqubic> I've now run the "cabal install taffybar" command in ~ and I'm now getting these errors: https://dpaste.com/8APW2SMCL
2022-03-02 06:38:45 +0100 <sclv> ok lmao now this is the classic arch linux problem
2022-03-02 06:38:54 +0100 <iqubic> What's the issue here?
2022-03-02 06:39:27 +0100 <sclv> arch doesn’t package the static libs in its ghc distri
2022-03-02 06:39:31 +0100 <sm> just walk out of the room.. leave your house.. move to another country.. get a job.. buy a new computer with anything but arch preinstalled.. and retry
2022-03-02 06:39:42 +0100 <sclv> Don’t listen to sm
2022-03-02 06:39:49 +0100 <int-e> Now we're running into how "how Haskell works on Arch Linux" is oxymoronic
2022-03-02 06:39:55 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 06:39:56 +0100 <iqubic> What can I do to fix this?
2022-03-02 06:40:34 +0100 <sm> I'm usually not that guy, but I've reached my limit with arch haskell support. Yup don't listen to me
2022-03-02 06:40:36 +0100 <sclv> haskell on arch is broken, and you can install a fresh ghc with ghcup to avoid the mess or you can lean into it and read their faq which describes a dynamic only workflow that works sometimes
2022-03-02 06:40:44 +0100 <int-e> My fix when I was using Arch was to not use Arch's ghc packages except for bootstrapping. ghcup is probably the path of least resistance these days
2022-03-02 06:41:06 +0100 <iqubic> Why do people hate Haskell on Arch?
2022-03-02 06:41:12 +0100 <sm> (I could fix it with stack, but I won't)
2022-03-02 06:41:15 +0100 <sclv> right. they just package it in a way unusable for developers and won’t listen to reason
2022-03-02 06:41:50 +0100 <int-e> Because Arch is a rolling release but Haskell's dynamic libraries have no backward ABI compatibility. And they refuse to make the compromise of shipping static libraries.
2022-03-02 06:41:55 +0100 <sclv> we tell them that they need to package static and dynamic libs both, and the maintainers just say “no.”
2022-03-02 06:42:01 +0100 <sm> we're sick of supporting these unending problems
2022-03-02 06:42:32 +0100 <sclv> installing ghc outside of the arch toolchain works fine.
2022-03-02 06:42:40 +0100 <int-e> (Do they also split runtime and devel packages? I forgot. That may be the immediate issue.)
2022-03-02 06:43:02 +0100 <int-e> (But if you solve that you'll run into the rolling release issue later. Not worth it.)
2022-03-02 06:43:08 +0100 <sclv> they give a “static” pkg for ghc itself iirc. but its messy for some reason
2022-03-02 06:43:40 +0100 <iqubic> How can I get ghcup on Arch?
2022-03-02 06:43:59 +0100 <sclv> https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/
2022-03-02 06:44:06 +0100 <int-e> And in contrast to Gentoo, Arch users are not used to stuff breaking all the time. :-P So Arch gets all the hate.
2022-03-02 06:44:43 +0100 <sclv> here’s arch’s haskell faq if you’re curious about the messy details https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/haskell
2022-03-02 06:44:49 +0100 <int-e> (Arch really worked surprisingly well *except for* the Haskell part, when I used it.)
2022-03-02 06:49:44 +0100 <int-e> "you'll run into the rolling release issue later" *and* it will be a huge nuisance because it'll break your taffybar (and xmonad if that's what you're using it with).
2022-03-02 06:50:19 +0100 <iqubic> I'm using xmonad, yeah.
2022-03-02 06:50:25 +0100 <int-e> (Unless they ship xmonad and that somehow works? I don't know.)
2022-03-02 06:50:52 +0100 <iqubic> I have xmonad installed via the packages in the Arch repo. And that just works, somehow.
2022-03-02 06:51:04 +0100 <iqubic> I've never really looked into how it works, but it does.
2022-03-02 06:51:16 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
2022-03-02 06:51:21 +0100 <int-e> Okay. It's probably best not to ask ;-)
2022-03-02 06:52:05 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 06:52:05 +0100 <iqubic> Alright, actually, I'm using xmonad-git and xmonad-contrib-git, both from the AUR.
2022-03-02 06:52:07 +0100 <iqubic> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/xmonad-git
2022-03-02 06:52:34 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-02 06:52:41 +0100 <iqubic> This is how it's being compiled: https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=xmonad-git
2022-03-02 06:53:23 +0100 <iqubic> Fucking hell. Why are Arch Linux and Haskell like water and tar?!?!?
2022-03-02 06:53:37 +0100 <iqubic> *water and oil.
2022-03-02 06:54:33 +0100 <iqubic> I just installed ghcup, and tried running "cabal install taffybar". Same issues arise.
2022-03-02 06:55:02 +0100 <int-e> It's a fundamental disagreement about the nature of shared libraries and ABIs.
2022-03-02 06:55:14 +0100 <sclv> you need to make sure cabal is finding the new ghc you installed in your path
2022-03-02 06:55:53 +0100 <iqubic> sciv: How can I do that?
2022-03-02 06:56:27 +0100 <sclv> well check your path and configure it
2022-03-02 06:56:36 +0100 <int-e> Arch's whole packaging is based on the idea that by and large, new versions of shared libraries are backward compatible. And GHC breaks that, badly.
2022-03-02 06:56:46 +0100 <sclv> or explicitly path a —with-ghc option to cabal
2022-03-02 06:56:58 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@rrcs-76-81-82-250.west.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-03-02 07:05:40 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52)
2022-03-02 07:06:42 +0100 <iqubic> Alright, I've switched over from using the AUR packages for xmonad to using the cabal versions via ghcup.
2022-03-02 07:08:31 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 07:08:58 +0100 <iqubic> How will I make sure that I can access the XMonad-Contrib library modules from XMonad.hs
2022-03-02 07:11:04 +0100duckonomy(~duckonomy@177.ip-144-217-84.net) (Quit: z.z)
2022-03-02 07:12:24 +0100 <iqubic> Well.... this is annoying: https://dpaste.com/5TPYJDYP9
2022-03-02 07:14:37 +0100yauhsien_(~yauhsien@61-231-37-5.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-02 07:14:44 +0100agumonke`(~user@2a01:e0a:8f9:d3e0:b117:81a8:33f6:93e7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 07:15:34 +0100 <iqubic> Oh, just installing "gobject-introspection" with the Arch package manager deal with that.
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2022-03-02 08:45:55 +0100MajorBiscuit(~MajorBisc@c-001-019-045.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-02 08:52:27 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 08:52:38 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2022-03-02 08:53:29 +0100niekvand1pas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 08:59:23 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-02 08:59:46 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:4602:bee7:a37e:bcc7)
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2022-03-02 09:04:30 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.93)
2022-03-02 09:05:08 +0100 <yushyin> "How will I make sure that I can access the XMonad-Contrib library modules from XMonad.hs" https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/blob/master/INSTALL.md#install-everything-1
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2022-03-02 12:05:21 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2022-03-02 12:05:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh yes, Im starting to think if we were able to attach arbitrary information to data constructors and fields outside the type system, that would simplify generics in so many ways.
2022-03-02 12:06:07 +0100 <dminuoso> One of the most annoying thing about Servant is dealing with these complicated types, and extending it relies on working with complicated typeclass magic to decompose these types..
2022-03-02 12:06:24 +0100 <dminuoso> And every diagnostic produces utterly unreadable types, it makes haddock hard to deal with..
2022-03-02 12:07:56 +0100mei(~mei@user/mei) (Quit: mei)
2022-03-02 12:10:56 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2022-03-02 12:15:19 +0100ProfSimm(~ProfSimm@87.227.196.109)
2022-03-02 12:15:56 +0100 <kuribas> I think dependent types and extensible records would make a servant-like API much nicer to work with.
2022-03-02 12:16:09 +0100 <kuribas> Because the specification is a Value, not a Type.
2022-03-02 12:16:20 +0100 <dminuoso> Dependent types do not generally improve the quality of your life.
2022-03-02 12:16:31 +0100 <dminuoso> Otherwise you'd have wraths of Haskellers switch to Idris.
2022-03-02 12:16:35 +0100 <kuribas> No, but they improve the quality of my code :)
2022-03-02 12:17:12 +0100 <kuribas> I mean, it's just like FP, static types, etc... you need to use when to use them, and use them well.
2022-03-02 12:17:37 +0100fendor_(~fendor@178.165.199.29.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2022-03-02 12:18:35 +0100 <kuribas> For example, dynamic language claim to have more freedom, but I can easily use clojure techniques in haskell, (by writing non-total functions), but I cannot easily introduce static typing in clojure.
2022-03-02 12:18:37 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 12:18:49 +0100 <kuribas> It's just the same with dependent types.
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2022-03-02 12:23:13 +0100 <dminuoso> Im not convinced that the code would improve in the general sense.
2022-03-02 12:24:22 +0100 <Franciman> dminuoso: idris doesn't have the same amount of libraries that haskell has
2022-03-02 12:25:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Ultimately with dependent types you don't quite solve the ergonomics problems that I mentioned above.
2022-03-02 12:26:27 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2022-03-02 12:32:36 +0100 <elkcl> hi! Is there any way to check if a field of a record is uninitialised?
2022-03-02 12:33:58 +0100 <dminuoso> elkcl: -Wall
2022-03-02 12:34:10 +0100 <dminuoso> And ideally even configure GHC so it will error out on it.
2022-03-02 12:36:06 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2022-03-02 12:36:19 +0100 <elkcl> No, I mean in the program. Like, I have a value of a record type and I need to check if all the fields were initialized
2022-03-02 12:36:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> impossible to check
2022-03-02 12:36:37 +0100 <dminuoso> Well not *quite* impossible.
2022-03-02 12:37:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> at least, if you want to distinguish between uninitialised and "initialised with `undefined`"
2022-03-02 12:37:09 +0100 <dminuoso> You can individually force all fields, and catch exceptions in IO. But you will have a really hard time distinguishing uninitialized from other bottoms.
2022-03-02 12:37:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> right
2022-03-02 12:37:19 +0100 <dminuoso> But really, -Wall is what you probably should be using
2022-03-02 12:37:25 +0100 <dminuoso> You shouldnt have uninitialized fields to begin with
2022-03-02 12:37:39 +0100 <dminuoso> Or use Maybe if you want to encode the potential lack of a field
2022-03-02 12:39:44 +0100 <elkcl> ok, I think I'll just use Maybe instead then, thanks
2022-03-02 12:41:29 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2022-03-02 12:47:30 +0100alp_(~alp@user/alp)
2022-03-02 12:48:53 +0100mason0(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
2022-03-02 12:49:19 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52)
2022-03-02 12:52:19 +0100Cena(~cena@c-107-4-204-12.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2022-03-02 12:52:38 +0100 <mason0> hi. is there a crossplatform (at minimum linux and windows) library that reading from keyboard without waiting for enter to be pressed? haskeline seemed promising at first, and it does have getInputCharSource that reads character without waiting for a newline, but it also displays that character with seemingly no way to disable that, and it can't read presses from non-printable keys.
2022-03-02 12:52:48 +0100 <mason0> that can read*
2022-03-02 12:53:54 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a)
2022-03-02 12:54:32 +0100Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 12:54:36 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 12:55:53 +0100 <byorgey> mason0: I think https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vty can do that, though it seems a bit overkill if all you want to do is read keypresses
2022-03-02 12:56:52 +0100ubert1(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:8433:129d:16c2:6bdb)
2022-03-02 12:56:55 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52)
2022-03-02 12:57:00 +0100 <mason0> ideally I want a getline that displays pressed characters, supports arrow keys, but also allows me to bind certain keys to certain actions
2022-03-02 12:57:12 +0100 <byorgey> actually, I might be wrong, I don't know if that supports windows.
2022-03-02 12:57:36 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 12:58:20 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2022-03-02 12:58:53 +0100 <mason0> even better if it supported history, like haskeline, but I'd be happy with just above. I tried hacking something with termios on linux and getch on windows, and display the line with \r, but it looks very weird, as terminal cursor is always at the beginning of the line
2022-03-02 13:00:00 +0100maerwald_(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de) (Changing host)
2022-03-02 13:00:00 +0100maerwald_(~maerwald@user/maerwald)
2022-03-02 13:00:07 +0100maerwald_maerwald
2022-03-02 13:00:27 +0100 <mason0> I just read the link you provided, and yeah vty doesn't support windows.
2022-03-02 13:00:55 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
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2022-03-02 13:07:39 +0100ShalokShalom(~ShalokSha@2a02:1748:dd5e:7f60:7de4:6952:a1d0:b75d)
2022-03-02 13:07:41 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
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2022-03-02 13:10:53 +0100 <anon44409248> sm: Nope, it doesn't work, but it says GHCup is installed and GHC is installed
2022-03-02 13:15:00 +0100n3t(n3t@s45.mydevil.net) (Changing host)
2022-03-02 13:15:00 +0100n3t(n3t@user/n3t)
2022-03-02 13:17:36 +0100fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 13:18:58 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 13:19:49 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-03-02 13:21:10 +0100SnowNeo(~SnowNeo@49.36.125.144)
2022-03-02 13:21:10 +0100 <SnowNeo> how is everyone doin
2022-03-02 13:21:20 +0100 <SnowNeo> jackdk man you're stil here
2022-03-02 13:21:27 +0100 <SnowNeo> i've not been here in a WHILE
2022-03-02 13:22:44 +0100ShalokShalom(~ShalokSha@2a02:1748:dd5e:7f60:7de4:6952:a1d0:b75d) (Quit: Client closed)
2022-03-02 13:23:26 +0100 <byorgey> hi SnowNeo
2022-03-02 13:23:40 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 13:24:02 +0100 <SnowNeo> hey
2022-03-02 13:24:12 +0100vglfr(~vglfr@coupling.penchant.volia.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 13:25:16 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 13:25:55 +0100SnowNeo(~SnowNeo@49.36.125.144) (Client Quit)
2022-03-02 13:28:46 +0100 <absence> when building a project using nix, it seems like all haskell dependencies are fetched from nixpkgs. but if i run the cabal command in nix-shell (repl, build, etc), i have to run cabal update first, and it appears to fetch dependencies from hackage. that seems wrong, can i configure cabal to use the dependencies already fetched by nix?
2022-03-02 13:29:03 +0100 <dminuoso> absence: Mmm, you cant trivially
2022-03-02 13:29:28 +0100 <dminuoso> Also you wont get coherence between the two builds
2022-03-02 13:29:41 +0100 <dminuoso> The best you could do is use haskell.nix - but `cabal build` will still use a separate build process
2022-03-02 13:29:53 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 13:30:22 +0100 <dminuoso> absence: I would use haskell.nix, and then use nix-shell with their hooks to get a cabal repl suitable
2022-03-02 13:31:05 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh wow. I should be reading news. 3.6.0.0 has nix support it seems?
2022-03-02 13:32:38 +0100 <geekosaur> nix support of some variety has been there since 2.0
2022-03-02 13:33:07 +0100 <geekosaur> but it means being able to build stuff from nix instead of from hackage,it still uses its own install plan instead of nix's
2022-03-02 13:33:13 +0100 <dminuoso> I wonder what that integration even deos
2022-03-02 13:33:15 +0100 <dminuoso> It doesnt say
2022-03-02 13:33:29 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2022-03-02 13:33:44 +0100 <absence> geekosaur: does "its own install plan" mean that dependencies are downloaded from hackage?
2022-03-02 13:33:51 +0100 <geekosaur> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.6/nix-integration.html
2022-03-02 13:34:56 +0100 <geekosaur> it's a bit out of date as it talks about sandboxes but they were removed in 3.x
2022-03-02 13:35:07 +0100 <dminuoso> Ive read that page twice, it really doesnt say anything
2022-03-02 13:35:14 +0100 <geekosaur> absence, no, it means it doesn't use nix derivations directly
2022-03-02 13:35:19 +0100 <dminuoso> Based on that alone I wouldnt know what the heck this did for me.
2022-03-02 13:35:39 +0100 <geekosaur> it should use them to get dependencies though
2022-03-02 13:35:44 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-02 13:36:50 +0100 <geekosaur> biut beyond that I'd have to direct you over to #hackage
2022-03-02 13:38:51 +0100 <absence> geekosaur: hmm... it seems like it doesn't. if i run "cabal --enable-nix repl", it complains "The package list for 'hackage.haskell.org' does not exist.". if i repeat the command after running cabal update, it says things like "Downloading random-1.2.1"
2022-03-02 13:40:07 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 13:40:32 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a)
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2022-03-02 13:43:10 +0100 <anon44409248> geekosaur: Haskell is working again
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2022-03-02 14:09:12 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-03-02 14:10:07 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-03-02 14:10:30 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2022-03-02 14:11:04 +0100 <mason0> is current version of ghc 9.2 still considered to buggy to switxh to
2022-03-02 14:12:43 +0100 <geekosaur> I would not use it onan M1 because it generates bad code. otherwise there are some bugs but generally OK. if you're really worried, stick to 8.10.7 or 9.0.2
2022-03-02 14:12:52 +0100alp_(~alp@user/alp) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 14:13:16 +0100 <Axman6> in what way does it generate bad code?
2022-03-02 14:13:33 +0100 <geekosaur> sign extension bugs, to be specific
2022-03-02 14:14:22 +0100 <geekosaur> note that 9.2.1 has a native asm backend; 9.0.2 and 8.10.7 go through LLVM for the M1
2022-03-02 14:15:10 +0100 <Axman6> Don't worry GHC, I ofteen get signs wrong too, you'll figure it out!
2022-03-02 14:15:21 +0100 <Axman6> often too
2022-03-02 14:16:08 +0100 <idnar> dminuoso: I think this is all: "If the package (which must be locally unpacked) provides a shell.nix or default.nix file, this flag will cause cabal to run most commands through nix-shell"
2022-03-02 14:16:12 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52)
2022-03-02 14:16:21 +0100 <geekosaur> note that the ecosystem has mostly stuck to 8.10.7, because 9.0.2 is too recent for there to have been much action and there's a certain habit of avoiding .1 releases as probably being too buggy for use :)
2022-03-02 14:17:37 +0100 <mason0> so is that the reason why stack L is still on 8.10.7?
2022-03-02 14:17:38 +0100 <geekosaur> but also because there's a general feeling that ghc moves too fast and it'shard to keep up. there is some discussion of moving to an LTS release plan for ghc in the future
2022-03-02 14:17:51 +0100 <mason0> stack lts*
2022-03-02 14:18:30 +0100 <geekosaur> yes. nightly is on 9.0.2 now that it's out. but also because there have been other major changes that need to be tested against the resolver, notably aeson 2.x and text 2.x
2022-03-02 14:18:32 +0100alp_(~alp@user/alp)
2022-03-02 14:18:50 +0100 <geekosaur> currently they're working on integrating aeson 2
2022-03-02 14:19:38 +0100 <dminuoso> idnar: if that's the case, then the integration is laughable.
2022-03-02 14:19:42 +0100jgeerds(~jgeerds@55d4548e.access.ecotel.net)
2022-03-02 14:19:51 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure stack's is any better
2022-03-02 14:20:10 +0100 <dminuoso> For a nix integration I would expect cabal to use pkgs.haskellPackages
2022-03-02 14:20:18 +0100 <geekosaur> it's not like it's trivial to hook into nix; you need to write actual nix expressions to do that
2022-03-02 14:24:28 +0100kaph(~kaph@net-109-116-124-149.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2022-03-02 14:26:17 +0100mlaogd^(~mlaogd@207.243.108.170)
2022-03-02 14:28:22 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 14:29:39 +0100img(~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
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2022-03-02 14:31:04 +0100img(~img@user/img)
2022-03-02 14:36:46 +0100 <maerwald> imagine nix had a unix API
2022-03-02 14:37:38 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-02 14:38:16 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 14:40:14 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-03-02 14:40:52 +0100 <dminuoso> I dont think having an "API" is the problem, it's that the nix philosophy is so inherently different from anything else thats been on linux before..
2022-03-02 14:41:31 +0100 <dminuoso> Because in principle you can call `nix` and `nix-build` just fine
2022-03-02 14:42:02 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@45.4.2.52)
2022-03-02 14:42:47 +0100 <maerwald> yeah, it doesn't fit well into existing linux concepts... FHS, unix, requires patchelf tricks, etc.. But then again, I'm not sure you could achieve all that with the old linux concepts
2022-03-02 14:43:05 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e)
2022-03-02 14:43:22 +0100 <maerwald> the only alternative probably *is* containerization... but not sure that's so much more "unix"
2022-03-02 14:43:28 +0100 <dminuoso> So patchelf is an interesting one. In principle you never need patchelf... is software was truly portably written.
2022-03-02 14:43:36 +0100 <dminuoso> And there's plenty of nix packages that can get away without patchelf
2022-03-02 14:43:42 +0100 <maerwald> well, now nix defines what is "portable" ;)
2022-03-02 14:43:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-02 14:44:05 +0100 <maerwald> I remember a GHC update breaking all of haskell's nix ecosystem in the early days
2022-03-02 14:44:22 +0100 <maerwald> but hey, GHC can break ghcup too
2022-03-02 14:44:23 +0100 <dminuoso> Okay so its definitely up to whatever you define as portable. But there's plenty of software with poor build systems or hardcoded paths.
2022-03-02 14:44:29 +0100 <geekosaur> freebsd seems to do okay with its containerized builds (poudriere?)
2022-03-02 14:45:02 +0100 <dminuoso> And from experience, patchelf is usually required when software makes very specific assumptions like "I expect to be inside a debian 10"
2022-03-02 14:45:02 +0100 <maerwald> but in unix, file locations *are* kinda part of API
2022-03-02 14:45:26 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: One that in recent years has drastically reduced in quality. :(
2022-03-02 14:45:49 +0100 <maerwald> yes and snap etc. don't make it better
2022-03-02 14:45:52 +0100 <dminuoso> It seems the only folks that are somewhat aware of these filesystem conventions are a few package maintainers at debian and other distributions.
2022-03-02 14:46:15 +0100 <geekosaur> debian came up with FHS; I'd hope they'd be aware of it
2022-03-02 14:46:20 +0100 <maerwald> I think the future are static binaries. Tool support needs to become better.
2022-03-02 14:46:43 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm, given how prominent glibc is, I dont think static binaries are in anyones near future
2022-03-02 14:46:45 +0100 <maerwald> E.g. I want to run "check <static-binary>" and see if it contains symbols that are known to be vulnerable
2022-03-02 14:46:53 +0100 <dminuoso> Besides, they greatly complicate shipping security patches
2022-03-02 14:47:06 +0100 <lechner> i am joining the right conversation i think
2022-03-02 14:47:08 +0100 <maerwald> that's just a logistic problem
2022-03-02 14:47:17 +0100 <maerwald> static binaries can be made secure
2022-03-02 14:47:18 +0100 <lechner> Hi, i only use cabal. Is stack really part of the official tool chain now? https://www.haskell.org/downloads/
2022-03-02 14:47:19 +0100 <dminuoso> Sure, its a logistics problem, but a very large one
2022-03-02 14:47:25 +0100 <geekosaur> also a way to do static-except-for-libc to solve the glibc problem
2022-03-02 14:47:38 +0100 <geekosaur> lechner, it's an official alternative
2022-03-02 14:47:57 +0100 <lechner> i have to do something about debian's toolchain i think
2022-03-02 14:48:13 +0100 <dminuoso> When you have 5,000 packages using openssl, then you need to annoy 5000 package maintainers to *promptly* ship a new build. And each of these maintainers needs to annoy the upstream developer, if they even still exist, are alive, are available, have time for you, to promptly put in a fix
2022-03-02 14:48:19 +0100 <geekosaur> the community is 50-50 stack vs. cabal, so it'skinda difficult to try to push for one vs. the other without leaving a lot of people out in the cold
2022-03-02 14:48:27 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: huh?
2022-03-02 14:48:28 +0100 <dminuoso> It's just very unrealistic to get an openssl fix into these 5,000 packages in anything less than a month.
2022-03-02 14:48:42 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: well, Im just talking from a distribution point of view.
2022-03-02 14:48:45 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: for a distro, it's *irrelevant*, whether a package is linked statically or dynamically
2022-03-02 14:48:50 +0100 <maerwald> nothing changes from that pov
2022-03-02 14:48:52 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 14:48:56 +0100 <dminuoso> of course it does.
2022-03-02 14:49:02 +0100 <maerwald> not really no
2022-03-02 14:49:09 +0100 <lechner> maerwald: it does
2022-03-02 14:49:10 +0100 <maerwald> the package manager knows whether the binary is insecure
2022-03-02 14:49:13 +0100 <maerwald> no
2022-03-02 14:49:23 +0100 <dminuoso> when openssl has a new CVE, you just have one package to update.
2022-03-02 14:49:26 +0100 <maerwald> you're not relying on the dynamic libs to figure this out
2022-03-02 14:49:29 +0100 <dminuoso> with static linking you potentially have thousands.
2022-03-02 14:49:35 +0100 <maerwald> yes, and?
2022-03-02 14:49:35 +0100 <lechner> sources and installables are tied
2022-03-02 14:49:45 +0100 <maerwald> distros have build machines?
2022-03-02 14:50:07 +0100 <lechner> we do not know how to update vendored sources
2022-03-02 14:50:20 +0100 <maerwald> whether you update dynamically linked openssl or 200 packages makes little difference in a distro with good CI, such as OpenSUSE
2022-03-02 14:50:29 +0100 <maerwald> lechner: that's a different topic
2022-03-02 14:50:42 +0100 <dminuoso> Maybe you're right
2022-03-02 14:50:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 14:51:21 +0100 <maerwald> it's more about: 1. attaching proper metadata to static binaries and 2. having an easy way to do mass upgrades
2022-03-02 14:51:23 +0100 <dminuoso> I mean it does have some inconveniences like notably increased disk usage
2022-03-02 14:51:37 +0100 <dminuoso> Not that this is a valid counter argument, but it is an inconvenience
2022-03-02 14:51:53 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: to some degree, this is truly easiest with nix! :)
2022-03-02 14:52:14 +0100 <maerwald> I think this is pretty easy in other distros like gentoo too
2022-03-02 14:52:20 +0100 <dminuoso> because the build process of mass buildign everything with an updated dependency is a built in feature
2022-03-02 14:52:29 +0100 <dminuoso> hydra does this every day
2022-03-02 14:52:34 +0100 <maerwald> you can do that in gentoo as well
2022-03-02 14:52:37 +0100 <maerwald> it's not even complicated
2022-03-02 14:52:53 +0100 <maerwald> figuring out reverse dependencies
2022-03-02 14:52:54 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 14:53:07 +0100 <geekosaur> if the distro doesn;'t already have a way to do this then it's broken. (see arch which just broke its haskell packages *again* because they don't get theirdeps right)
2022-03-02 14:53:28 +0100 <maerwald> I'm not even sure pacman has a concept of reverse dependencies
2022-03-02 14:54:05 +0100 <lechner> consuming sources or installables is a better term
2022-03-02 14:54:48 +0100 <lechner> or prerequisite
2022-03-02 14:54:58 +0100 <dminuoso> At any rate, the biggest problem with static linking is the prominence of Drepper's extremist religious point of view.
2022-03-02 14:55:10 +0100 <dminuoso> With so many distributions built ontop of glibc, you're not getting static linking anywhere.
2022-03-02 14:55:19 +0100 <dminuoso> So foremost, it's technically not feasible. :p
2022-03-02 14:55:36 +0100 <geekosaur> sure it is. just need a better way to do static--except-for-libc
2022-03-02 14:55:45 +0100 <geekosaur> the linker can do that, it's just painful currently
2022-03-02 14:56:05 +0100 <dminuoso> Like I said. Technically not feasible. :p
2022-03-02 14:56:08 +0100 <geekosaur> and nearly impossible the way Cabal-the-lib treats linker parameters
2022-03-02 14:56:22 +0100 <maerwald> that's a dark rabbit hole
2022-03-02 14:56:26 +0100 <maerwald> very dark
2022-03-02 14:56:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-02 14:58:42 +0100 <maerwald> but there's a trick with extra-lib-dirs and dumping static libs there
2022-03-02 14:59:46 +0100 <geekosaur> I seem to recall coming up with that hack after fighting with cabal over it :)
2022-03-02 15:00:18 +0100 <geekosaur> and then carefully analyzing which stanzas put wich information where in the link line
2022-03-02 15:00:41 +0100 <geekosaur> to help someone who was trying to link stuff statically early on
2022-03-02 15:01:01 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:01:38 +0100 <geekosaur> I may have filed a Cabal bug about it putting link libs at the start of the linker command instead of the end, because it didn't work for static libs
2022-03-02 15:03:18 +0100 <geekosaur> (I know I complained to them about it, at minimum)
2022-03-02 15:08:41 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:09:40 +0100 <lechner> maerwald: i think you gave me an idea. thank you
2022-03-02 15:10:02 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.199.42.143)
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2022-03-02 15:26:55 +0100 <mason0> is it possible to write type safe printf without using template haskell, and with string literals used as format?
2022-03-02 15:27:18 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:27:43 +0100 <geekosaur> depends on howyou define "string literal"
2022-03-02 15:28:11 +0100 <maerwald> only with dependent types
2022-03-02 15:28:15 +0100 <mason0> ideally just "this", but if that is not possible, then I guess something else
2022-03-02 15:28:19 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.93) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:28:20 +0100 <maerwald> everything else is a pseudo-string literal
2022-03-02 15:28:26 +0100 <mason0> maerwald, with ghc extensions haskell is half-way there, no?
2022-03-02 15:29:11 +0100 <geekosaur> there is category-printf but I'm told it's not really for practical use
2022-03-02 15:30:04 +0100 <geekosaur> there's also typelits-printf but it's technically using a Symbol instead of a String
2022-03-02 15:30:31 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e)
2022-03-02 15:31:24 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 15:33:04 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.77)
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2022-03-02 15:34:31 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net)
2022-03-02 15:35:13 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2022-03-02 15:35:14 +0100Null_A(~null_a@2601:645:8700:2290:3c1e:11a0:debc:333e) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:35:40 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2022-03-02 15:36:53 +0100 <kuribas> Symbol is just a typelevel string.
2022-03-02 15:37:34 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, that''s why I said "technically"
2022-03-02 15:38:25 +0100lumberjack123(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-03-02 15:38:25 +0100lumberjack(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-03-02 15:40:40 +0100 <kuribas> well, you cannot get type safety without using types.
2022-03-02 15:40:59 +0100 <kuribas> But format is probably the more idiomatic haskell thing to use.
2022-03-02 15:41:28 +0100 <kuribas> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/formatting-7.1.3/docs/Formatting.html
2022-03-02 15:41:49 +0100 <kuribas> It's typesafe without resorting to fancy haskell.
2022-03-02 15:41:50 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@77-161-122-185.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-02 15:42:10 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2022-03-02 15:43:29 +0100 <maerwald> not much different from `"foo" <> show bar <> "lol"`
2022-03-02 15:44:47 +0100 <mason0> geekosaur, so category-printf uses what appears to be string literal, but is actually object of different type?
2022-03-02 15:45:38 +0100 <geekosaur> no, that's typelits-printf
2022-03-02 15:45:46 +0100 <geekosaur> I don't know much about category-printf
2022-03-02 15:45:48 +0100 <WhateverRabbit> You can write something like this https://gist.github.com/kana-sama/a97603265fbaa0aba9f16809d535029c#file-formatf-hs-L63 using ghc 9.2
2022-03-02 15:46:33 +0100 <geekosaur> there are a few other printf-like libraries that behave like Python's % operator, instead of C's printf
2022-03-02 15:47:01 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com)
2022-03-02 15:47:01 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@206-55-188-8.fttp.usinternet.com) (Changing host)
2022-03-02 15:47:01 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2022-03-02 15:49:13 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2022-03-02 15:49:36 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 15:51:19 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Quit: mikoto-chan)
2022-03-02 15:52:38 +0100 <kuribas> maerwald: completely different.
2022-03-02 15:52:48 +0100 <kuribas> maerwald: show is not for rendering output.
2022-03-02 15:53:27 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 15:53:33 +0100 <kuribas> and the formatting combinators do a lot more than just "show".
2022-03-02 15:53:35 +0100 <maerwald> that wasn't the point
2022-03-02 15:53:53 +0100 <maerwald> the point is that you're not really writing anything resembling a string literal, but have operators in between etc
2022-03-02 15:54:16 +0100 <maerwald> you can use any other class than Show with the <> pattern
2022-03-02 15:55:59 +0100 <kuribas> also that repeated <> is pretty inefficient.
2022-03-02 15:56:09 +0100 <maerwald> not necessarily
2022-03-02 15:56:13 +0100 <maerwald> depends on the type
2022-03-02 15:56:16 +0100 <kuribas> not necessarily not.
2022-03-02 15:56:26 +0100 <kuribas> Which is the whole point.
2022-03-02 15:56:39 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-03-02 15:57:42 +0100 <kuribas> the fact that it's a literal string is just a relic from C.
2022-03-02 15:57:54 +0100hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-81-123.socal.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 15:58:09 +0100 <maerwald> it's more convenient than spreading operators in between
2022-03-02 15:59:31 +0100 <maerwald> but I too abandoned quasi quoters... cause too many troubles with tooling
2022-03-02 15:59:35 +0100deadmarshal_(~deadmarsh@95.38.231.103)
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2022-03-02 16:14:19 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2022-03-02 16:15:06 +0100 <Zemyla> Okay, so I have a naming problem.
2022-03-02 16:15:24 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 16:17:02 +0100dextaa_(~dextaa@user/dextaa)
2022-03-02 16:17:28 +0100 <Zemyla> I want to add zipping traversals to the lens library, and to do that I need specialized types. One of these types is FunList:
2022-03-02 16:17:40 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2022-03-02 16:18:04 +0100 <Zemyla> @let data FunList t b a = Done t | More a (FunList (b -> t) b a)
2022-03-02 16:18:05 +0100 <lambdabot> /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:266:1: error:
2022-03-02 16:18:05 +0100 <lambdabot> Multiple declarations of ‘FunList’
2022-03-02 16:18:05 +0100 <lambdabot> Declared at: /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:200:1
2022-03-02 16:18:15 +0100 <Zemyla> :t zipTraversal
2022-03-02 16:18:16 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => LensLike (FunApp a c) sa t a c -> LensLike (FunApp b c) sb t b c -> ((a, b) -> f c) -> (sa, sb) -> f t
2022-03-02 16:18:38 +0100 <Zemyla> Okay, it hasn't been @undefed in all this time?
2022-03-02 16:21:22 +0100 <Zemyla> @undef
2022-03-02 16:21:22 +0100 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2022-03-02 16:21:23 +0100 <anon44409248> what does it mean if the type signature for 'Lorem' lacks accompanying binding?
2022-03-02 16:21:44 +0100 <maerwald> it means you didn't actually write an implementation
2022-03-02 16:22:06 +0100 <maerwald> GHC doesn't write the code for you, yet
2022-03-02 16:24:46 +0100 <Zemyla> Anyways, my problem is that FunList is not a useful Applicative, both because the variables are in the wrong order and because (<*>) would be O(n) even if they were a b t instead of t b a.
2022-03-02 16:25:08 +0100 <Zemyla> So I have a type that acts as a difference list for FunLists:
2022-03-02 16:25:51 +0100 <Zemyla> newtype ??? a b t = ??? { un??? :: forall r. (forall x. ((t -> r) -> x) -> FunList x b a) -> FunList r b a }
2022-03-02 16:25:58 +0100 <Zemyla> What should this type be called?
2022-03-02 16:27:09 +0100 <geekosaur> anon44409248, are you writing in ghci? You will need to put the type signature and the definition on the same line in that case, separated by a semicolon (;)
2022-03-02 16:27:56 +0100agumonke`(~user@2a01:e0a:8f9:d3e0:b117:81a8:33f6:93e7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 16:28:03 +0100 <geekosaur> or use ghci's multiline input mode by entering `:{` on a line by itself, writing the typesignature and definition, then a line with `:}' to end the multiline entry
2022-03-02 16:33:45 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
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2022-03-02 16:50:44 +0100figurantpp(~My_user_n@2804:14d:328c:4e27:ac25:e254:6be3:6bf4)
2022-03-02 16:50:53 +0100agumonke`(~user@88.163.231.79)
2022-03-02 16:50:59 +0100 <mason0> any potential issues with this? :) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/0lD6vlxk
2022-03-02 16:51:32 +0100 <cheater> @faq can Haskell fire the rockets?
2022-03-02 16:51:32 +0100 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/FAQ
2022-03-02 16:51:38 +0100 <cheater> :(
2022-03-02 16:52:39 +0100Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-173-76-179-30.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2022-03-02 16:53:20 +0100neurocyte0917090(~neurocyte@IP-045128181095.dynamic.medianet-world.de)
2022-03-02 16:53:20 +0100neurocyte0917090(~neurocyte@IP-045128181095.dynamic.medianet-world.de) (Changing host)
2022-03-02 16:53:20 +0100neurocyte0917090(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
2022-03-02 16:53:35 +0100 <figurantpp> this pureRandom unsafe thing looks unholy
2022-03-02 16:54:12 +0100motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck)
2022-03-02 16:54:28 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 16:54:44 +0100 <figurantpp> #join haskell-br
2022-03-02 16:54:48 +0100 <figurantpp> oh crap
2022-03-02 16:54:56 +0100 <janus> how do people remember whether it is {: or :{ ? because a smiley should always have eyes left? i just find it confusing how the order isn't flipped on closing, while for language pragmas it is
2022-03-02 16:55:36 +0100 <figurantpp> trial and error
2022-03-02 16:56:04 +0100 <janus> that's not helping me remember it... looking for a mnemonic, some that makes it make sense
2022-03-02 16:56:10 +0100 <lyxia> all commands start with :
2022-03-02 16:56:17 +0100 <niekvandepas> This is quite silly, but I say "sad face, happy face"
2022-03-02 16:56:23 +0100 <niekvandepas> ":{ :}"
2022-03-02 16:56:32 +0100 <janus> lyxia: ooooh
2022-03-02 16:57:28 +0100figurantpp(~My_user_n@2804:14d:328c:4e27:ac25:e254:6be3:6bf4) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-03-02 16:57:40 +0100 <geekosaur> what lyxia says, they're ghci commands and all ghci commands start with colons
2022-03-02 16:57:54 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 17:00:11 +0100simmsb(~simmsb@2001:470:69fc:105::1:55c3) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2022-03-02 17:02:02 +0100bahamas(~lucian@84.232.140.52) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:05:13 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:05:26 +0100 <mason0> interesting, I can't get pureRandom to work in actual code. it returns same value. but it works in ghci. odd
2022-03-02 17:06:12 +0100figurantpp(~figurantp@2804:14d:328c:4e27:ac25:e254:6be3:6bf4)
2022-03-02 17:06:36 +0100 <mason0> I am storing this in some fields, where x is (): (\x _ -> [pureRandom x])
2022-03-02 17:06:47 +0100 <mason0> this is just an experiment, I don't plan to use this in the end
2022-03-02 17:07:42 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239)
2022-03-02 17:07:56 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:10:17 +0100 <figurantpp> why doesn't the haskage page about a package have a link to the docs of it by default?
2022-03-02 17:10:24 +0100 <figurantpp> e.g https://hackage.haskell.org/package/PSQueue
2022-03-02 17:10:48 +0100 <figurantpp> oh nvm i'm just blind
2022-03-02 17:11:12 +0100 <figurantpp> there are actually links to it
2022-03-02 17:12:38 +0100figurantpp(~figurantp@2804:14d:328c:4e27:ac25:e254:6be3:6bf4) (Quit: WeeChat 3.4)
2022-03-02 17:12:57 +0100kaph(~kaph@rm-19-62-210.service.infuturo.it)
2022-03-02 17:14:30 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 17:15:01 +0100 <c_wraith> mason0: since functions are pure in haskell, GHC is free to inline the results of calling it.
2022-03-02 17:15:16 +0100 <mason0> I think I figured it out: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5t17eJJQ
2022-03-02 17:15:52 +0100 <mason0> didn't paste x and y definitions: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/20LBJ47n
2022-03-02 17:16:23 +0100 <c_wraith> that only matters in ghci
2022-03-02 17:16:55 +0100 <mason0> how come?
2022-03-02 17:17:51 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 17:18:13 +0100 <c_wraith> ghc compiles constraints as a function argument. in ghci, it will always re-solve the constraint and evaluate the function again.
2022-03-02 17:18:13 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2022-03-02 17:18:23 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:600:5133:28cb:83bf:5ecf:4314)
2022-03-02 17:18:37 +0100 <c_wraith> when ghc compiles with optimizations, it's under no such restriction
2022-03-02 17:19:06 +0100 <c_wraith> if it sees the value used at only one type, it will happily monomorphise it.
2022-03-02 17:19:40 +0100 <c_wraith> Then if it shares the value, everywhere that uses it will see the same thing. Wherever it inlines will see something different.
2022-03-02 17:19:54 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-03-02 17:20:09 +0100 <mason0> okay. I am kind of glad that it can't be done safely (unless it can? :) )
2022-03-02 17:20:18 +0100 <c_wraith> It can't
2022-03-02 17:20:21 +0100Guest|76(~Guest|76@c-75-68-42-100.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
2022-03-02 17:21:25 +0100 <Guest|76> Hi   I was wondering if there is a ghcup distribution in a .deb package that we can use to install with puppet?
2022-03-02 17:21:25 +0100 <c_wraith> GHC heavily relies on the purity of expressions in its optimizations. When an expression isn't actually pure, things get very weird.
2022-03-02 17:22:18 +0100jstolarek(~jstolarek@staticline-31-183-182-85.toya.net.pl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:22:22 +0100 <maerwald> Guest|76: not that I know of. The binary is static, so all you'd need to do is curl it.
2022-03-02 17:22:38 +0100mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 17:23:01 +0100 <Guest|76> We were hoping to install it to be used by multiple users on multiple systems
2022-03-02 17:23:25 +0100S11001001(sid42510@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:24:24 +0100 <geekosaur> ghcup expects too be installed per user so it can (among other things) update itself
2022-03-02 17:24:34 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a)
2022-03-02 17:24:52 +0100 <Guest|76> Okay thanks for your help
2022-03-02 17:24:55 +0100 <geekosaur> and its general idea is to avoid conflicting with OS packages, so itself being an OS package would be odd
2022-03-02 17:25:06 +0100 <maerwald> geekosaur: not entirely true
2022-03-02 17:25:14 +0100 <maerwald> ghcup can be put just fine in /usr/local/bin
2022-03-02 17:25:23 +0100S11001001(sid42510@id-42510.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2022-03-02 17:25:23 +0100 <maerwald> ghcup upgrade does not upgrade in-place by default
2022-03-02 17:25:41 +0100Guest|23(~Guest|23@80.215.155.80)
2022-03-02 17:26:05 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-02 17:26:32 +0100Guest|23(~Guest|23@80.215.155.80) (Client Quit)
2022-03-02 17:26:34 +0100 <maerwald> there's also a cabal flag now to disable upgrade functionality, which is used by the brew package
2022-03-02 17:27:17 +0100 <maerwald> Guest|76: yes, you can just put it in /usr/bin or so... when a user executes a command, the files end up in users home dir
2022-03-02 17:27:24 +0100 <maerwald> the binary does not need to reside in home dir
2022-03-02 17:28:39 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2022-03-02 17:28:54 +0100 <Guest|76> How much space does it use?
2022-03-02 17:29:01 +0100 <maerwald> depends on what you install
2022-03-02 17:29:11 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Client Quit)
2022-03-02 17:29:19 +0100 <maerwald> a full GHC installation is about 1GB
2022-03-02 17:29:33 +0100 <maerwald> eh, 2GB
2022-03-02 17:29:36 +0100lumberjack123(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:29:41 +0100 <maerwald> 1 if you remove profiling libs
2022-03-02 17:29:55 +0100 <Guest|76> Looking for GHC, cabal-install, stack and haskell-language-server
2022-03-02 17:30:16 +0100lumberjack(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:30:34 +0100dut(~dut@user/dut) (Quit: Leaving)
2022-03-02 17:30:58 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:30:59 +0100 <maerwald> cabal and stack are less than 100mb, HLS may be 1GB as well
2022-03-02 17:31:50 +0100jstolarek(~jstolarek@staticline-31-183-182-85.toya.net.pl)
2022-03-02 17:32:01 +0100jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:32:05 +0100 <maerwald> so minimum 4 GB I'd say
2022-03-02 17:32:19 +0100 <maerwald> and you need about 5GB free on /tmp
2022-03-02 17:32:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl)
2022-03-02 17:32:50 +0100komikat(~komikat@157.38.239.223)
2022-03-02 17:33:03 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:213:7200:cc36:a556:b1e8:b340)
2022-03-02 17:33:06 +0100 <maerwald> and then if you install haskell packages, it can range anywhere from 1GB to 50GB +
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2022-03-02 17:41:01 +0100 <mason0> c_wrath, I got it to work with {-# NOINLINE pureRandom #-}, as long as I pass a new () each time (so a function that calls it, needs to accept () as an argument). I am not sure if there's some edge case where this would not work, but I didn't find one
2022-03-02 17:41:54 +0100 <c_wraith> the important part is that it's not guaranteed to work.
2022-03-02 17:42:29 +0100 <c_wraith> there are legal transforms it can do which end up with it giving you the same value each time.
2022-03-02 17:43:11 +0100doyougnu(~doyougnu@cpe-67-249-83-190.twcny.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 17:43:16 +0100 <c_wraith> whether a particular version of GHC does then or not may be interesting, but it doesn't tell you about the correctness of the code.
2022-03-02 17:45:31 +0100 <Zemyla> Why not have it take an Int instead and increment it every time?
2022-03-02 17:45:56 +0100 <mason0> yeah understand, just because I didn't find an edge case, doesn't mean there isn't one, even ghc I'm using. going by quick tests in ghci, even without NONLINE it *seemed* to have worked
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2022-03-02 17:47:49 +0100 <geekosaur> ghci doesn't inline (or otherwise optimize)
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2022-03-02 21:55:29 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2022-03-02 21:55:34 +0100 <anon44409248> :t chr
2022-03-02 21:55:35 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> Char
2022-03-02 21:56:17 +0100 <anon44409248> My terminal doesn't return the type after importing Data.Char I get a variable not in scope: chr error
2022-03-02 21:56:39 +0100 <geekosaur> import Data.Char
2022-03-02 21:56:42 +0100 <geekosaur> @index chr
2022-03-02 21:56:43 +0100 <lambdabot> GHC.Char, Data.Char
2022-03-02 21:56:57 +0100 <geekosaur> lambdabot has a large import list
2022-03-02 21:57:03 +0100 <geekosaur> @where L.hs
2022-03-02 21:57:03 +0100 <lambdabot> what lambdabot has in scope is at https://silicon.int-e.eu/lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs
2022-03-02 21:57:49 +0100 <anon44409248> what does @index chr do? and what does GHC.Char, Data.Char do?
2022-03-02 21:58:08 +0100 <anon44409248> are those specific function? so I'm not importing everything in the library?
2022-03-02 21:58:19 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:917f:cb7a:6a6c:cd7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 21:58:33 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:917f:cb7a:6a6c:cd7)
2022-03-02 21:58:48 +0100 <geekosaur> @index tells you the (standard) modules in which a function is defined
2022-03-02 21:58:48 +0100 <lambdabot> bzzt
2022-03-02 21:59:18 +0100 <geekosaur> modules starting with `GHC` are not generally intended for users to import
2022-03-02 21:59:22 +0100_ht(~quassel@231-169-21-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 21:59:26 +0100Cena(~cena@c-107-4-204-12.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2022-03-02 21:59:27 +0100 <anon44409248> oh ok
2022-03-02 22:00:21 +0100Cena(~cena@c-107-4-204-12.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2022-03-02 22:00:22 +0100 <anon44409248> I still get this error: <interactive>:1:1: error: Variable not in scope: chr
2022-03-02 22:00:25 +0100 <janus> what is the right way to import the Generic type class?
2022-03-02 22:01:41 +0100 <geekosaur> if it's really :1:1: thne you still haven't imported Data.Char
2022-03-02 22:01:51 +0100 <geekosaur> type `import Data.Char` at the prompt
2022-03-02 22:02:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> janus: import GHC.Generic ?
2022-03-02 22:03:05 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:917f:cb7a:6a6c:cd7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 22:03:24 +0100 <anon44409248> it works when I import it on the prompt but I need it in the file
2022-03-02 22:03:31 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2022-03-02 22:03:41 +0100vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2022-03-02 22:03:56 +0100 <anon44409248> is it meant to be import Data.Char ()?
2022-03-02 22:04:11 +0100 <geekosaur> without the (), or put `chr` inside the ()
2022-03-02 22:04:40 +0100Akiva(~Akiva@user/Akiva) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2022-03-02 22:05:25 +0100slac99733(~slack1256@45.4.2.52)
2022-03-02 22:05:35 +0100 <anon44409248> Alright
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2022-03-02 22:11:52 +0100 <anon44409248> how to I clear a line on the terminal but more than one character at a time?
2022-03-02 22:12:03 +0100 <anon44409248> I can't select all
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2022-03-02 22:14:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> anon44409248: ctrl-e ctrl-u
2022-03-02 22:15:02 +0100pitiK3U(~Piti@user/pitiK3U)
2022-03-02 22:15:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> (ctrl-e moves to end of line, ctrl-u deletes from cursor to beginning of line)
2022-03-02 22:15:25 +0100 <geekosaur> depends on what they're doing, no?
2022-03-02 22:15:36 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95)
2022-03-02 22:15:47 +0100pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2022-03-02 22:15:48 +0100 <janus> could also use ctrl-a (jmp to begin), ctrl-e (delete from current char)
2022-03-02 22:15:52 +0100 <geekosaur> if they;'re talking about output then we'relooking at an ansi package
2022-03-02 22:15:56 +0100 <janus> ah no, ctrl-k
2022-03-02 22:16:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: given that they said "I can't select all", sounds like a ghci input line
2022-03-02 22:17:02 +0100 <anon44409248> Also, when I press the up arrow, it appends the history instead of one at a time showing the historical commands
2022-03-02 22:17:13 +0100 <anon44409248> tomsmeding: yeah I'm using ghci input
2022-03-02 22:17:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: funny, the ansi escape code for erasing a single line is also \e[K
2022-03-02 22:17:57 +0100 <geekosaur> are you on an M1? I think there's a known bug in haskeline
2022-03-02 22:18:04 +0100coot_(~coot@2a02:a310:e241:1b00:ec1a:e9df:79ac:66ba)
2022-03-02 22:18:08 +0100 <geekosaur> fixed but not upstreamed yet
2022-03-02 22:18:12 +0100simendsjo(~user@84.211.91.241) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 22:18:13 +0100 <anon44409248> yeah, in the terminal on vscode
2022-03-02 22:18:23 +0100 <geekosaur> oh, vscode. no idea
2022-03-02 22:19:45 +0100lumberjack(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-03-02 22:19:56 +0100coot(~coot@213.134.190.95) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 22:20:26 +0100lumberjack123(~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo)
2022-03-02 22:21:41 +0100pitiK3U(~Piti@user/pitiK3U) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-03-02 22:21:57 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-02 22:22:43 +0100pitiK3U(~Piti@user/pitiK3U)
2022-03-02 22:23:06 +0100 <janus> is Kazu Yamamoto on IRC?
2022-03-02 22:23:46 +0100 <janus> it's the person about to eat a hotdog on wheels
2022-03-02 22:24:17 +0100mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@213.177.151.239) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2022-03-02 22:41:49 +0100anon44409248(~anon44409@host-92-19-97-204.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2022-03-02 22:48:32 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.199.42.143)
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2022-03-02 22:55:16 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-160-236-152.range86-160.btcentralplus.com)
2022-03-02 22:55:52 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-37-5.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2022-03-02 22:59:42 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.93)
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2022-03-02 23:00:29 +0100mason0(~bc8147f2@cerf.good1.com)
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2022-03-02 23:04:24 +0100 <mason0> is hackage broken? or just win32 pages on hackage?
2022-03-02 23:04:27 +0100 <mason0> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.6.2.0/docs/src/System-Win32-Console.html#getConsoleScr…
2022-03-02 23:06:15 +0100forell(~forell@user/forell) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2022-03-02 23:06:35 +0100 <geekosaur> hackage can't generate docs for win32 packages because it runs on linux and haddock relies on running ghc
2022-03-02 23:07:04 +0100 <mason0> docs exist. I just can't look at the source. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.6.2.0/docs/System-Win32-Console.html#v:setConsoleOutpu…
2022-03-02 23:07:28 +0100 <mason0> maybe reason is the same though?
2022-03-02 23:07:53 +0100 <geekosaur> \same reason, yes
2022-03-02 23:08:06 +0100forell(~forell@user/forell)
2022-03-02 23:08:16 +0100 <geekosaur> normally in this case someone generates the docs on a capable system and uploads them to hackage; I guess this didn't happen for Win32
2022-03-02 23:08:22 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-160-236-152.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-03-02 23:08:37 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:917f:cb7a:6a6c:cd7)
2022-03-02 23:08:55 +0100 <monochrom> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32-2.13.2.0/docs/src/System.Win32.Console.html#getConsoleSc… exists. But its just a foreign import line.
2022-03-02 23:08:57 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@id-464869.lymington.irccloud.com)
2022-03-02 23:09:21 +0100 <mason0> thanks.. not sure how you got to that link?
2022-03-02 23:09:41 +0100 <monochrom> By unpinning the "2.6.2.0" version number part.
2022-03-02 23:09:58 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2022-03-02 23:10:15 +0100 <monochrom> By starting with the unversioned https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Win32
2022-03-02 23:11:36 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.75)
2022-03-02 23:13:34 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.199.42.143)
2022-03-02 23:15:15 +0100burakcank(~burakcank@has.arrived.and.is.ready-to.party)
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2022-03-02 23:21:38 +0100anon44409248(~anon44409@host-92-19-97-204.as13285.net)
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2022-03-02 23:47:34 +0100 <lechner> Hi, why are the docs here not available, please, even though the build log says OK? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arbtt
2022-03-02 23:47:52 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:8d0:f5fa:6344:b56a)
2022-03-02 23:48:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@c-001-001-005.client.esciencecenter.eduvpn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2022-03-02 23:48:10 +0100mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2022-03-02 23:48:51 +0100Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2022-03-02 23:49:33 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps its an exe-only package?
2022-03-02 23:50:25 +0100 <geekosaur> that's what it looks like
2022-03-02 23:50:44 +0100 <geekosaur> the "docs" here are library documentation, but arbtt is an executable and has nolibraries to document
2022-03-02 23:51:13 +0100 <monochrom> The page still has a readme and a link to a user guide.
2022-03-02 23:52:40 +0100mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2022-03-02 23:53:05 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2022-03-02 23:53:08 +0100xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
2022-03-02 23:53:14 +0100anon44409248(~anon44409@host-92-19-97-204.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2022-03-02 23:57:56 +0100alx741(~alx741@157.100.197.240)
2022-03-02 23:59:48 +0100 <lechner> monochrom geekosaur: thank you!