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2021/11/24

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2021-11-24 00:10:30 +0100 <nautical> haskell
2021-11-24 00:10:55 +0100dsaldrinks to that
2021-11-24 00:12:11 +0100 <Franciman> Haskell!
2021-11-24 00:12:54 +0100 <Axman6> HasSkol! Cheers
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2021-11-24 00:26:26 +0100 <jackdk> arahael: are you on M1? I don't know the status of M1 support but I did see "arm64" in your error message
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2021-11-24 00:30:54 +0100safinaskar(~quassel@109-252-90-143.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
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2021-11-24 01:17:48 +0100 <dsal> @pl \x -> Just <$> x <|> empty
2021-11-24 01:17:48 +0100 <lambdabot> (<|> empty) . (Just <$>)
2021-11-24 01:17:54 +0100 <dsal> Proof that pl always makes things better
2021-11-24 01:18:03 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-30-221.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
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2021-11-24 01:28:24 +0100 <pavonia> It makes them pointless, not necessarily better
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2021-11-24 01:33:40 +0100 <dsal> It'd be extra cool if it pointed out that the `(<|> empty) . ` was the real pointless.
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2021-11-24 01:53:54 +0100 <monochrom> PHB = pointless haskell boss >:)
2021-11-24 01:55:36 +0100Nolrai2(~Nolrai2@c-76-27-202-218.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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2021-11-24 01:55:59 +0100 <Nolrai2> In places where both would work is it better to use type families or functional depencies?
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2021-11-24 02:01:09 +0100 <geekosaur> I think it comes down to personal preference; arguments can be made for both
2021-11-24 02:01:39 +0100 <geekosaur> the downside of fundeps is they're harder to reason about because they're more Prolog than Haskell
2021-11-24 02:02:14 +0100 <geekosaur> the downside of type familoies is, especially if non-injective, they can be harder to reason about
2021-11-24 02:02:32 +0100 <geekosaur> so basically different varieties of the same downside for both
2021-11-24 02:03:29 +0100 <dsal> I've only had fundeps come up as a "I need this thing." Maybe I'm ignorant and they're more related than I thought.
2021-11-24 02:03:32 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-24 02:04:01 +0100 <geekosaur> fundeps and associated type families do pretty much the same thing
2021-11-24 02:04:12 +0100 <geekosaur> iirc they've been proven equivalent in expressive power
2021-11-24 02:05:47 +0100 <dsal> I guess I need to understand the latter a bit more.
2021-11-24 02:05:57 +0100 <dsal> I needed this one day: `class Projector a b | a -> b where project :: a -> b -> [a]`
2021-11-24 02:05:59 +0100 <c_wraith> since this just came up in r/haskell, here. https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview
2021-11-24 02:06:05 +0100 <c_wraith> all about fundeps :)
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2021-11-24 02:13:08 +0100 <arahael> jackdk: i am indeed on M1
2021-11-24 02:13:31 +0100 <dsal> M1 posse
2021-11-24 02:13:36 +0100 <arahael> jackdk: and complicating it further, it seems my llvm is version 13.0.0 (which is whatever got installed by xcode)
2021-11-24 02:13:55 +0100 <jackdk> arahael: I'm on x86_64-pc-linux-gnu so I can't help sorry
2021-11-24 02:14:20 +0100 <dsal> I just run out of nix.
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2021-11-24 02:14:31 +0100 <Axman6> pretty keen to get an M1 in the next few years. one of Twitter's engineering teams reackon the faster build times mean that they pey for themselves in saved dev time within about three months
2021-11-24 02:14:48 +0100 <arahael> dsal: even if i "ran out of nix" here, i'd still be using apple's xcode for the llvm.
2021-11-24 02:15:22 +0100 <boxscape_> hm I seem to remember recently seeing someone write a pattern synonym to check if a string has a certain prefix, which I previously thought you could only do with a view pattern + matching on Just. But I can't find it anymore. Any idea where I might find that or how to write such a pattern synonym?
2021-11-24 02:15:33 +0100 <arahael> Axman6: definitely, though then again, linux is by far the better trodden path, especially for haskell.
2021-11-24 02:15:59 +0100 <Axman6> There's little difference between macOS and linux when it comes to Haskell
2021-11-24 02:16:09 +0100 <Axman6> I've been developing for linus on macOS for years
2021-11-24 02:16:13 +0100 <Axman6> linux too
2021-11-24 02:16:32 +0100 <Axman6> spews Linus, you've been using proprietary software this whole time!
2021-11-24 02:17:06 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:17:36 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-11-24 02:18:21 +0100 <boxscape_> (as in, say, `foo (Prefix "pref" rest) = rest <> " is the rest"`)
2021-11-24 02:18:47 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy)
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2021-11-24 02:20:58 +0100 <justsomeguy> I defined the function taken :: Word -> [a] -> [a]; taken _ [] = []; taken 0 _ []; taken n (x:xs) = x : taken (n-1) xs, but when I run taken (-4) [1..20] I don't get a type error, but the numeric literal overflows and taken still runs. Is there a compiler flag I can turn on to make it a type error, instead?
2021-11-24 02:22:34 +0100 <dsal> boxscape_: I think Text has something for that.
2021-11-24 02:22:35 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:23:03 +0100 <dsal> boxscape_: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.5.0/docs/Data-Text.html#g:22
2021-11-24 02:23:18 +0100 <justsomeguy> The idea is to prevent invalid uses of taken with negative numbers by changing the type. I'm just kind of confused why ghci let's me run it with a negative number in the first place.
2021-11-24 02:23:29 +0100 <dsal> > -5 :: Word
2021-11-24 02:23:30 +0100 <lambdabot> 18446744073709551611
2021-11-24 02:23:49 +0100jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun)
2021-11-24 02:23:50 +0100 <dsal> You might try Natural.
2021-11-24 02:23:56 +0100 <dsal> -5 :: Natural
2021-11-24 02:23:59 +0100 <dsal> > -5 :: Natural
2021-11-24 02:24:00 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-11-24 02:24:00 +0100 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Natural’
2021-11-24 02:24:04 +0100 <dsal> See, that doesn't work.
2021-11-24 02:24:22 +0100 <dsal> @let import Numeric.Natural
2021-11-24 02:24:23 +0100 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-11-24 02:24:25 +0100 <dsal> > -5 :: Natural
2021-11-24 02:24:27 +0100 <lambdabot> *Exception: arithmetic underflow
2021-11-24 02:24:37 +0100 <geekosaur> justsomeguy, it can't be a type error. it might be a different kind if error but you might need NumericLiterals because by default (-5) is a function application and the checking qould have to be runtime, not compile time
2021-11-24 02:24:54 +0100 <dsal> This is similar to a conversation we were having recently. You can't really have a positive-only type.
2021-11-24 02:24:54 +0100 <geekosaur> % :set -XNumericLiterals
2021-11-24 02:24:54 +0100 <yahb> geekosaur: Some flags have not been recognized: -XNumericLiterals
2021-11-24 02:25:07 +0100 <geekosaur> hm
2021-11-24 02:25:39 +0100 <geekosaur> oh right, they reorganized that whole mess
2021-11-24 02:25:54 +0100 <geekosaur> % :set -XLexicalNegation
2021-11-24 02:25:54 +0100 <yahb> geekosaur:
2021-11-24 02:25:56 +0100zava(~zava@ip5f5bdf0f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-24 02:26:06 +0100 <geekosaur> % (-5) :: Word
2021-11-24 02:26:07 +0100 <yahb> geekosaur: ; <interactive>:30:2: warning: [-Woverflowed-literals] Literal -5 is out of the Word range 0..18446744073709551615; 18446744073709551611
2021-11-24 02:26:32 +0100 <Nolrai2> Nice!
2021-11-24 02:27:35 +0100jinsun__(~quassel@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:28:58 +0100 <dsal> The downside is that requires that to have been the case all along the calling path. One place missed and you just have a big number.
2021-11-24 02:29:59 +0100 <justsomeguy> If I set that project-wide using stack, could I still encounter overflows?
2021-11-24 02:30:01 +0100 <geekosaur> but that's what's happening now, with no possibility of even a warning
2021-11-24 02:31:50 +0100 <geekosaur> possibly you'd have to also recompile any dependencies with the same flag
2021-11-24 02:31:53 +0100 <arahael> Axman6: little difference, maybe, so why can't i build sdl2 in cabal (my llvm is too new), or why can't i "cabal install shake"? :)
2021-11-24 02:32:33 +0100 <Axman6> probably because you're using a very newly supported architecture :) can you install older LLVM with homebrew?
2021-11-24 02:32:40 +0100 <geekosaur> although at some point you might just have to trust that no dependency uses a negative number as a Word value
2021-11-24 02:33:08 +0100 <geekosaur> because the warning (or error if -Werror) is thrown at the point the numeric literal appears
2021-11-24 02:33:23 +0100 <geekosaur> and won't happen if you for example do
2021-11-24 02:33:31 +0100 <geekosaur> % 3 - 4 :: Word
2021-11-24 02:33:32 +0100 <yahb> geekosaur: 18446744073709551615
2021-11-24 02:34:13 +0100 <geekosaur> that one would again have to be a runtime error, the compiler cannot detect this for you
2021-11-24 02:36:03 +0100 <justsomeguy> Ok, interesting.
2021-11-24 02:37:50 +0100 <Cajun> does GHC compute expressions consisting of purely literals pre-compilation? i havent heard anyone mention it so i assume not
2021-11-24 02:37:50 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:38:13 +0100 <geekosaur> it does not
2021-11-24 02:38:22 +0100 <Axman6> it doesn't do any sort of constant folding?
2021-11-24 02:38:30 +0100wei2912(~wei2912@116.88.103.128)
2021-11-24 02:38:47 +0100 <geekosaur> nope
2021-11-24 02:38:58 +0100 <Cajun> has that idea been passed around?
2021-11-24 02:39:05 +0100 <geekosaur> it's been discussed
2021-11-24 02:39:12 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:39:47 +0100 <geekosaur> there are problems like (a) which operations do you constant fold (b) what are the laziness/strictness implications in each case
2021-11-24 02:40:00 +0100 <boxscape_> doesn't it constant fold with RULES pragmas
2021-11-24 02:40:12 +0100 <boxscape_> see e.g. https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/9136
2021-11-24 02:40:19 +0100 <geekosaur> RULES pragmas only know types, not whether something is a constant or not
2021-11-24 02:40:35 +0100 <Axman6> LLVM can sometimes do it for you, I remember Don Stewart's posts on writing H?Askell faster than C years ago showing that you could get sum [1..1000000] to compile to a constant
2021-11-24 02:40:50 +0100Guest63(~Guest63@2601:282:500:80c0:1165:8bfb:dd94:6233)
2021-11-24 02:41:34 +0100 <geekosaur> (and "what operations" is complicated by typeclass instances in scope, potentially including nonstandard Num instances and such)
2021-11-24 02:42:18 +0100 <geekosaur> (and there are indeed alternative Preludes which use different Num instances for even the basic types)
2021-11-24 02:42:40 +0100 <geekosaur> basically the whole issue has a number of minefields you can't encounter in other languages
2021-11-24 02:43:28 +0100 <Guest63> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/NlqoFQO2
2021-11-24 02:44:01 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:dcf1:6c47:4df:1ed1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 02:44:10 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
2021-11-24 02:44:12 +0100 <Guest63> I'm receiving an error whenever I am trying to test my function allAnswers
2021-11-24 02:44:39 +0100 <Cajun> Axman6: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2009-February/056248.html looks like something you are referring to
2021-11-24 02:45:29 +0100cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-24 02:46:07 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-24 02:47:16 +0100ph88_(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:fc62:cdb:5eac:d781)
2021-11-24 02:47:28 +0100curiousgay(~gay@77-120-141-90.kha.volia.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-24 02:48:11 +0100 <Cajun> Guest63: are those `ints` in the type signature deliberately lowercase? try making that a capital-I Int
2021-11-24 02:48:35 +0100 <geekosaur> won't work, you can't (usefully?) say Show Int as a constraint I think
2021-11-24 02:48:55 +0100 <Cajun> well removing those should rid you of that issue yeah?
2021-11-24 02:48:56 +0100cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2021-11-24 02:49:22 +0100 <geekosaur> but that does look confusing and likely the cause, because I think that it can't do defaulting through shouldBe and therefore has no idea what type to use there
2021-11-24 02:49:36 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:50:04 +0100 <Cajun> also shouldnt that be (a -> Maybe [b]) in `nonsense` since `allAnswers` expects (a -> Maybe [b])
2021-11-24 02:50:22 +0100 <Cajun> or rather `Int -> Maybe Int`
2021-11-24 02:50:28 +0100jmorris(uid433911@id-433911.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 02:50:39 +0100 <Cajun> s/Maybe Int/Maybe [Int]
2021-11-24 02:51:11 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:ccfc:bf5f:d318:f468) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:52:55 +0100 <monochrom> Then "Just n" makes no sense.
2021-11-24 02:53:24 +0100 <monochrom> Well, it never made sense in the first place.
2021-11-24 02:53:55 +0100 <Cajun> yeah i think changing the `int` to `Int` and following the type errors and trusting the compiler will lead to something that works
2021-11-24 02:54:10 +0100 <Cajun> or a billion constraints, whichever comes first
2021-11-24 02:56:28 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-11-24 02:56:38 +0100 <monochrom> Pessimistically I actually think that the current story state of affairs was the outcome of some kind of following the type errors and listening to compiler suggestions.
2021-11-24 02:56:56 +0100 <monochrom> The original version had Int -> Maybe Int.
2021-11-24 02:57:24 +0100 <monochrom> It did not fit allAnswer's expectations.
2021-11-24 02:58:13 +0100 <monochrom> The student did not "understand" the error message. They decided that polymorphism would relax type restrictions. Afterall, it's "polymorphic".
2021-11-24 02:58:21 +0100 <Guest63> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/z34BjgOM
2021-11-24 02:58:22 +0100 <Cajun> yeah i do too, considering the show, eq, and num constraints. but i think those are because int wasnt capitalized so the compiler said to add those
2021-11-24 02:58:36 +0100 <Guest63> I changed int to a, and gave the complete context
2021-11-24 02:58:38 +0100 <monochrom> So it was changed to "int -> Maybe int" with a type variable.
2021-11-24 02:58:39 +0100ph88_(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:fc62:cdb:5eac:d781) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 02:59:01 +0100 <monochrom> And then the compiler "helpfully" suggested that "you need to add those Eq, Num, Show conditions".
2021-11-24 03:00:38 +0100 <Cajun> thats what im thinking, yeah
2021-11-24 03:00:39 +0100 <Guest63>  "int" wasn't supposed to be "Int". it was just a type variable, i've now changed it to "a" or similar.
2021-11-24 03:00:46 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:00:48 +0100 <Cajun> ah welp
2021-11-24 03:02:04 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-024.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 03:02:36 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk)
2021-11-24 03:03:27 +0100 <awpr> if it's polymorphic, you'll have to choose a particular type to test it on -- e.g. try putting a type signature `2 :: Int` inside the test case input list
2021-11-24 03:04:05 +0100mimmy(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:b4bd:ed21:7e07:d0e0)
2021-11-24 03:05:48 +0100 <monochrom> I don't understand why allAnswers is not "(a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b]".
2021-11-24 03:05:53 +0100 <Cajun> im confused on `nonsense` being passed to `allAnswers`. `nonsense :: (a -> Maybe a)` and the first argument of allAnswers `(a -> Maybe [b])` are different arent they? unless a ~ [b]?
2021-11-24 03:06:18 +0100 <c_wraith> monochrom: because then it's too obviously a variant of concatMap
2021-11-24 03:06:46 +0100 <boxscape_> I can see "copyFile" in System.Directory, but if I'm seeing this correctly it doesn't work for directories. Is there a way to copy directories?
2021-11-24 03:06:51 +0100alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 03:06:52 +0100 <monochrom> And I don't understand why "firstAnswer nonsense [2,3,4] `shouldBe` Just 3" (note that it is not Just 2) and yet the allAnswers version can have 2 in [2,3,4].
2021-11-24 03:07:19 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@client-8-92.eduroam.oxuni.org.uk) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:08:20 +0100Nolrai2(~Nolrai2@c-76-27-202-218.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-11-24 03:09:05 +0100 <Cajun> boxscape_: `Shelly` has good implementations of those kinda things, but i havent dabbled in that too much
2021-11-24 03:09:15 +0100 <boxscape_> hm okay thanks
2021-11-24 03:09:22 +0100 <dsal> I was about to link to that. heh
2021-11-24 03:09:29 +0100 <dsal> It's a higher level abstraction needed, as the system doesn't typically have that.
2021-11-24 03:09:42 +0100 <boxscape_> I see
2021-11-24 03:09:51 +0100 <geekosaur> boxscape_, the problem is directory package wants to be system-agnostic but there's no system-agnostic way to copy a directory tree
2021-11-24 03:09:58 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-11-24 03:10:00 +0100 <boxscape_> okay
2021-11-24 03:10:40 +0100 <geekosaur> windows and unix do different things, at least if you want to copy all attributes
2021-11-24 03:10:49 +0100 <boxscape_> right, makes sense
2021-11-24 03:11:22 +0100 <geekosaur> Shelly can do it but I'm pretty sure it's unix-only
2021-11-24 03:12:31 +0100 <boxscape_> cobbling something together in terms of directory's createDirectory and copyFile might be enough for me
2021-11-24 03:13:33 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:13:59 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:dcf1:6c47:4df:1ed1)
2021-11-24 03:14:41 +0100nf(~n@monade.li) (Quit: Fairfarren.)
2021-11-24 03:14:53 +0100nf(~n@monade.li)
2021-11-24 03:21:27 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-11-24 03:26:57 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
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2021-11-24 03:29:24 +0100caef^(~caef@68.101.63.101)
2021-11-24 03:29:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-11-24 03:29:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-11-24 03:29:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-11-24 03:32:54 +0100Feuermagier_(~Feuermagi@154.28.188.153) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 03:33:03 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier)
2021-11-24 03:33:09 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:34:31 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:37:00 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:e81a:fa7:1342:3782)
2021-11-24 03:37:04 +0100 <boxscape_> good news: it works. Bad news: I must have the wrong type signature somewhere, because it created 1479 copies of my directory instead of 25
2021-11-24 03:37:16 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 03:37:29 +0100 <c_wraith> ... that sounds like AoC prep
2021-11-24 03:37:47 +0100 <boxscape_> yep :)
2021-11-24 03:38:02 +0100viluon(uid453725@id-453725.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-11-24 03:39:02 +0100 <c_wraith> you're prepared for the long version now!
2021-11-24 03:39:13 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702)
2021-11-24 03:39:26 +0100 <boxscape_> good point
2021-11-24 03:39:27 +0100mimmy(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:b4bd:ed21:7e07:d0e0) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:40:58 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:52f2:7200:e03c:a5df:843b:e9fd) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:41:51 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:42:03 +0100 <boxscape_> % newtype Day = MkDay {unDay :: Int} deriving (Enum, Eq, Ord, Num, Show, Read) via Int
2021-11-24 03:42:03 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_:
2021-11-24 03:42:10 +0100 <boxscape_> % instance Bounded Day where minBound = 1; maxBound = 25
2021-11-24 03:42:10 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_:
2021-11-24 03:42:16 +0100 <boxscape_> % [minBound :: Day ..]
2021-11-24 03:42:22 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_: [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,114,115,116,117,118,119,120,121,122,123,124,125,126,127
2021-11-24 03:42:27 +0100 <boxscape_> I expected this to stop at 25
2021-11-24 03:42:28 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5337:5300:80c9:d1d4:6212:bca5)
2021-11-24 03:42:38 +0100 <geekosaur> Enum is not Bounded
2021-11-24 03:42:53 +0100 <boxscape_> I suppose I can see why
2021-11-24 03:42:59 +0100 <awpr> it got the Enum instance by taking the instance for `Int` and using it for `Day`
2021-11-24 03:43:23 +0100 <boxscape_> yes, I expected enumFrom to check for maxBound (which doesn't make sense to be fair, looking at the type signature
2021-11-24 03:43:24 +0100 <boxscape_> )
2021-11-24 03:44:31 +0100 <geekosaur> where's merijn to complain about Enum and Bounded being wrong :þ
2021-11-24 03:45:31 +0100 <boxscape_> boundedEnumFrom exists so that's nice
2021-11-24 03:46:07 +0100 <EvanR> for some reason enumFrom screams "infinite" to me
2021-11-24 03:46:21 +0100 <boxscape_> I always do things like [Monday ..] to get all the days of the week
2021-11-24 03:46:35 +0100 <boxscape_> I hadn't considered before that [minBound..] can be different from [minBound..maxBound]
2021-11-24 03:47:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:47:34 +0100 <boxscape_> (And I suppose it can't if you use `deriving stock (Bounded, Enum)`)
2021-11-24 03:47:46 +0100lyxia(~lyxia@poisson.chat) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:48:14 +0100stilgart(~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:48:20 +0100shane_(~shane@ana.rch.ist) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:48:23 +0100stilgart(~Christoph@chezlefab.net)
2021-11-24 03:48:27 +0100shane(~shane@ana.rch.ist)
2021-11-24 03:48:32 +0100 <EvanR> tbf [minBound..] is technically not infinite? xD
2021-11-24 03:48:50 +0100 <boxscape_> it is in the case I asked of yahb above
2021-11-24 03:48:51 +0100peutri(~peutri@ns317027.ip-94-23-46.eu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:49:02 +0100SIben(~SIben@ns3106586.ip-5-135-191.eu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:49:04 +0100 <EvanR> > enumFrom 9223372036854775807 :: [Int]
2021-11-24 03:49:05 +0100 <lambdabot> [9223372036854775807]
2021-11-24 03:49:07 +0100 <EvanR> hmm
2021-11-24 03:49:13 +0100 <boxscape_> ah, well
2021-11-24 03:49:22 +0100lyxia(~lyxia@poisson.chat)
2021-11-24 03:49:23 +0100pippijn(~pippijn@ra.xinutec.org) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:49:23 +0100 <boxscape_> I suppose I would have to use Integer for it to be truly infinite
2021-11-24 03:49:38 +0100 <EvanR> > [9223372036854775807 ..] :: [Int]
2021-11-24 03:49:39 +0100 <lambdabot> [9223372036854775807]
2021-11-24 03:49:46 +0100 <EvanR> hehe
2021-11-24 03:50:21 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:e81a:fa7:1342:3782) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 03:50:29 +0100peutri(~peutri@ns317027.ip-94-23-46.eu)
2021-11-24 03:50:50 +0100SIben(~SIben@ns3106586.ip-5-135-191.eu)
2021-11-24 03:51:13 +0100pippijn(~pippijn@ra.xinutec.org)
2021-11-24 03:51:17 +0100 <EvanR> varying levels of infinite
2021-11-24 03:51:53 +0100 <EvanR> i can't really go through all the numbers in an Int... and Integer craps out at some point
2021-11-24 03:52:21 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:50e8:62eb:be31:28d8)
2021-11-24 03:52:28 +0100 <EvanR> (later)
2021-11-24 03:53:14 +0100sluigi(~sluigi@2603-900a-1600-ba00-413a-d0a0-1d2f-7111.inf6.spectrum.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-11-24 03:54:04 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-11-24 03:54:07 +0100ph88_(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:fc62:cdb:5eac:d781)
2021-11-24 04:00:38 +0100 <arahael> I have this specific issue: https://github.com/corsis/clock/issues/70 - I noticed that it's just been closed, what must have been the fix?
2021-11-24 04:03:01 +0100Guest63(~Guest63@2601:282:500:80c0:1165:8bfb:dd94:6233) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-11-24 04:03:13 +0100 <boxscape_> I have a better solution for my bounds issue now https://paste.tomsmeding.com/dcNwvBwN
2021-11-24 04:03:44 +0100 <boxscape_> (last line is supposed to have `Between 1 25`, not `Between 1 2`)
2021-11-24 04:04:11 +0100 <boxscape_> (also I accidentally wrote toEnum instead of fromEnum)
2021-11-24 04:04:13 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-30-221.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-24 04:05:40 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
2021-11-24 04:10:51 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:11:55 +0100gdown(~gavin@h69-11-248-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net)
2021-11-24 04:15:03 +0100isovector1(~isovector@S010650395555cb6e.gv.shawcable.net)
2021-11-24 04:16:39 +0100 <dsal> boxscape_: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/finite-typelits
2021-11-24 04:17:09 +0100 <boxscape_> thanks
2021-11-24 04:17:31 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-11-24 04:17:51 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:50e8:62eb:be31:28d8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:19:54 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:fd83:28f5:d4ef:37d4)
2021-11-24 04:19:58 +0100Axma59590(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2021-11-24 04:20:42 +0100Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:20:44 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2021-11-24 04:20:44 +0100finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-11-24 04:20:44 +0100finn_elijaFinnElija
2021-11-24 04:22:31 +0100 <dsal> boxscape_: I used this a couple days ago. It's pretty great: https://dustin.github.io/tesla/Tesla-Car-Command.html
2021-11-24 04:22:50 +0100 <dsal> Tesla API takes an int number of minutes since midnight.
2021-11-24 04:22:57 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:7d52:bf34:226e:199c) (Quit: gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-11-24 04:24:57 +0100boxscape_72(~boxscape_@p4ff0bb6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-24 04:25:06 +0100boxscape_72boxscape__
2021-11-24 04:25:30 +0100 <boxscape__> dsal yeah definitely looks useful
2021-11-24 04:25:35 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-11-24 04:25:46 +0100renzhi(~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::6e7f) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:27:13 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0bb6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:27:28 +0100boxscape__(~boxscape_@p4ff0bb6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
2021-11-24 04:28:24 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:29:29 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:30:20 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-11-24 04:30:25 +0100mimmy(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:da6:ed1e:9ca5:1d2)
2021-11-24 04:32:11 +0100isovector1(~isovector@S010650395555cb6e.gv.shawcable.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-24 04:32:51 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:fd83:28f5:d4ef:37d4) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-11-24 04:37:28 +0100renzhi(~xp@2607:fa49:6500:b100::5cef)
2021-11-24 04:38:33 +0100 <dsal> I rewrote a recursive function with `fix` and I'm not sure why I did that. Are there places where it makes sense?
2021-11-24 04:38:36 +0100hiruji(~hiruji@user/hiruji)
2021-11-24 04:39:15 +0100mbuf(~Shakthi@223.178.98.255)
2021-11-24 04:39:34 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-11-24 04:40:10 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:40:26 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:2900:5624:d5f:15dc)
2021-11-24 04:43:03 +0100mimmy(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:da6:ed1e:9ca5:1d2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:46:17 +0100jinsun__(~quassel@user/jinsun)
2021-11-24 04:46:53 +0100 <EvanR> sometimes fix makes the whole thing smaller
2021-11-24 04:47:20 +0100 <EvanR> and pretty much guarantees someone (possibly you) will look at the code later and not know wtf is happening
2021-11-24 04:47:30 +0100 <c_wraith> I like fix in very limited cases, where it means I don't have to define a recursive operation inline and call it in separate steps.
2021-11-24 04:48:11 +0100td_(~td@94.134.91.203) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:48:56 +0100 <c_wraith> like... fix $ \loop -> do ...
2021-11-24 04:49:25 +0100jinsun(~quassel@user/jinsun) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 04:49:52 +0100td_(~td@94.134.91.109)
2021-11-24 04:51:46 +0100mimmy(~mimmy@2607:fea8:6e0:7f90:88c3:30a7:232e:140)
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2021-11-24 05:15:23 +0100 <dsal> Ah, yeah. I think I needed mfix once ever. Then I later didn't need it.
2021-11-24 05:15:55 +0100 <dsal> In this particular case, I just noticed I changed it and didn't commit it, so I have the smaller version which is easier to read as a reference. heh
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2021-11-24 06:13:16 +0100 <EvanR> recursive do can be used to manually create looping data structures, but I'm not sure if its practical
2021-11-24 06:13:42 +0100 <EvanR> I guess it could be a slick way to generate a node list
2021-11-24 06:13:47 +0100 <EvanR> of a graph
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2021-11-24 06:36:51 +0100 <dsal> I was reading some of the RULES in Data.List and see `foldr/id" foldr (:) [] = \x -> x` and... that's kind of weird.
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2021-11-24 06:41:33 +0100 <rkrishnan> trying to build ghcjs from their default branch 8.10.7 and the build process builds ghc and gives me this error: https://pastebin.com/YDi0QaTr I pasted the code around the reported line here: https://pastebin.com/8qFquJHg Seem like the #include in the previous line is the culprit?
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2021-11-24 07:04:18 +0100 <arahael> Can I specify a default set of additional ghc-options to be used system-wide?
2021-11-24 07:04:21 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 07:04:36 +0100 <arahael> Getting a bit tired of typing the likes of: cabal run --ghc-option=(pkg-config --cflags libffi)
2021-11-24 07:06:35 +0100 <xsperry> IIRC I there's a way to do that, but the more common approach is to put it in ghc-options section of the project's cabal file
2021-11-24 07:07:03 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-11-24 07:07:29 +0100 <xsperry> {-# OPTIONS_GHC ... #-} on top of the file works too
2021-11-24 07:08:17 +0100 <arahael> xsperry: It needs to be applied to the modules that cabal would install as dependencies, though.
2021-11-24 07:08:36 +0100sub0(~bc8165b6@217.29.117.252)
2021-11-24 07:08:48 +0100 <arahael> Ie, I really do want it to be as global as I've got it there.
2021-11-24 07:08:58 +0100 <arahael> Otherwise I can't install or build anything that requires the ffi.
2021-11-24 07:10:11 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
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2021-11-24 07:13:00 +0100 <sub0> arahael, wellshouldn't those modules have ffi specified in their cabal file, if they require it? I never had problems installing modules that require FFI, without specifying any global cabal options
2021-11-24 07:13:30 +0100 <arahael> sub0: I have this bug: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20592
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2021-11-24 07:23:22 +0100 <sub0> arahael, I never encountered similar error. perhaps ask your question again at a more busy hour
2021-11-24 07:23:26 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 07:24:25 +0100 <c_wraith> arahael: the last comment there suggests you can just set an env variable
2021-11-24 07:25:52 +0100 <arahael> Oh, of course. Let me try that.
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2021-11-24 07:27:32 +0100 <arahael> That does work a charm. :)
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2021-11-24 09:54:21 +0100whatif(~user@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-11-24 09:54:43 +0100 <whatif> is linked list useful in haskell?
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2021-11-24 09:55:39 +0100LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
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2021-11-24 09:55:55 +0100 <kuribas> whatif: why wouldn't it be?
2021-11-24 09:56:09 +0100 <kuribas> Most of the prelude functions are on linked lists.
2021-11-24 09:56:24 +0100LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-11-24 09:56:53 +0100 <whatif> I haven't used it, I don't know what case it is for
2021-11-24 09:57:15 +0100 <kuribas> I guess that means you haven't used haskell at all?
2021-11-24 09:57:31 +0100 <whatif> ...
2021-11-24 09:58:24 +0100 <kuribas> lists and maps are pretty much the most used collection in my code.
2021-11-24 09:58:32 +0100 <merijn> whatif: That's not a weird question. I would honestly be fairly astonished if you haven't used linked lists in Haskell
2021-11-24 09:58:40 +0100 <whatif> I learn a few language, like python kotlin and haskell, I don't know when to use "linked list"
2021-11-24 09:59:12 +0100 <dminuoso> whatif: In Haskell, the regular list type [] is used often as a plain substitute for generic lists or implicitly for control flow
2021-11-24 09:59:17 +0100 <merijn> whatif: Haskell's list *is* a linked list, so if you've used lists in haskell, you already have used them
2021-11-24 09:59:18 +0100 <dminuoso> It's very ubiquitious
2021-11-24 09:59:41 +0100 <dminuoso> Even when you use String, you are using a list because `type String = [Char]`
2021-11-24 09:59:54 +0100 <dminuoso> (Of course whether that was ever a good idea is debatable)
2021-11-24 09:59:56 +0100econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-11-24 09:59:57 +0100 <kuribas> whatif: whenever you need to store many values.
2021-11-24 10:01:00 +0100 <whatif> I saw someone implement a linked list with class in python, I don't know what's the point
2021-11-24 10:01:20 +0100 <whatif> like implement a linked list in haskell?
2021-11-24 10:01:37 +0100max22-(~maxime@2a01cb0883359800b50cd0817109af2c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-11-24 10:01:41 +0100 <whatif> and [] is already a linked list, what's the point?
2021-11-24 10:01:48 +0100 <dminuoso> What's the point of what?
2021-11-24 10:02:03 +0100 <whatif> to creat a new linked list
2021-11-24 10:02:08 +0100 <kuribas> whatif: indeed, there is no point in reimplementing a linked list in haskell, except for teaching the concept.
2021-11-24 10:02:13 +0100 <dminuoso> Who is telling yout o "create a new linked list", whatif?
2021-11-24 10:02:43 +0100 <whatif> dminuoso: I saw someone's code is doing that
2021-11-24 10:02:44 +0100 <kuribas> whatif: though many guides do it show that a list is not a primitive in haskell.
2021-11-24 10:02:58 +0100AlexNoo_AlexNoo
2021-11-24 10:03:00 +0100 <dminuoso> whatif: Ask them, then?
2021-11-24 10:03:12 +0100 <dminuoso> Without knowing more details, we cant tell you why someone else did what they did.
2021-11-24 10:03:29 +0100 <whatif> right
2021-11-24 10:03:45 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@212.232.84.133)
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2021-11-24 10:05:48 +0100 <kuribas> whatif: use only good code as examples of writing haskell, not bad code.
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2021-11-24 10:08:26 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.32)
2021-11-24 10:11:23 +0100 <sub0> I can't see any practical reason for implementing and then using your own linked list in haskell, vs a built in one. so it was probably in the context of teaching
2021-11-24 10:12:43 +0100 <merijn> sub0: Well, NonEmpty is one :p
2021-11-24 10:13:12 +0100 <kuribas> Or doubly linked one, use tie the knot?
2021-11-24 10:13:28 +0100 <kuribas> Hard to know without whatif giving more info.
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2021-11-24 11:06:04 +0100 <rkrishnan> Does ghcjs support compiling packages that has C code?
2021-11-24 11:07:58 +0100 <merijn> Almost certainly not
2021-11-24 11:11:17 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 11:12:03 +0100 <rkrishnan> merijn: thanks. That is what I guessed too. But then I saw emcc being used. Seem like it is only used as a preprocessor?
2021-11-24 11:12:43 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 11:12:45 +0100 <rkrishnan> I guess this means, packages that depend on cryptonite cannot be compiled using ghcjs. :-(
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2021-11-24 11:17:31 +0100 <[exa]> rkrishnan: not sure that it would be a great idea even if it worked, you'd lose most of the good properties of the implemnetation there anyway
2021-11-24 11:19:46 +0100td_(~td@94.134.91.109) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 11:20:20 +0100 <rkrishnan> [exa]: yes, agreed.
2021-11-24 11:21:00 +0100 <[exa]> otoh "at least it would work"... :D
2021-11-24 11:21:23 +0100td_(~td@94.134.91.173)
2021-11-24 11:22:40 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: no webassembly hack?
2021-11-24 11:25:31 +0100 <merijn> I dunno
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2021-11-24 12:06:23 +0100curiousgay(~curiousga@77-120-141-90.kha.volia.net)
2021-11-24 12:08:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Gah, why do let bindings in do-notation force Monad while ApplicativeDo is enabled?
2021-11-24 12:09:13 +0100 <dminuoso> Couldn't GHC assume referential transparency, and just inline the let binding instead?
2021-11-24 12:09:56 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 12:10:04 +0100Nselm(~Nselm@p200300d56f0dd27991c77759d1a6858b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-24 12:11:42 +0100 <opqdonut> dminuoso: let <pattern> = ... needs MonadFail I guess? Maybe GHC doesn't detect whether patterns can fail?
2021-11-24 12:12:58 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 12:13:31 +0100 <dminuoso> opqdonut: Id be surprised if it did. MonadFail is about pattern matches on <-, no?
2021-11-24 12:13:52 +0100 <dminuoso> @undo do { let x = 1; pure () }
2021-11-24 12:13:52 +0100 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs:1:25:Parse error: }
2021-11-24 12:14:34 +0100 <opqdonut> > do let Just x = Nothing; [True]
2021-11-24 12:14:35 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:32: error:
2021-11-24 12:14:35 +0100 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
2021-11-24 12:14:41 +0100 <opqdonut> > do {let Just x = Nothing; [True]}
2021-11-24 12:14:43 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:33: error: parse error on input ‘}’
2021-11-24 12:14:45 +0100 <opqdonut> meh
2021-11-24 12:14:51 +0100 <dminuoso> Yeah I cant figure it out either
2021-11-24 12:15:51 +0100 <dminuoso> undo do {a <- x; let b = a; f a b }
2021-11-24 12:15:53 +0100 <dminuoso> @undo do {a <- x; let b = a; f a b }
2021-11-24 12:15:53 +0100 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs:1:30:Parse error: }
2021-11-24 12:16:18 +0100oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-11-24 12:16:59 +0100 <dminuoso> @undo do let { x = 1} in pure ()
2021-11-24 12:16:59 +0100 <lambdabot> let { x = 1} in pure ()
2021-11-24 12:17:02 +0100 <dminuoso> opqdonut: ^-
2021-11-24 12:17:30 +0100jbox(~jbox@user/jbox) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-24 12:18:17 +0100 <kuribas> dminuoso: probably applicativeDo is done before optimizations.
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2021-11-24 12:21:33 +0100 <kuribas> dminuoso: but I find it a rather half-assed extension.
2021-11-24 12:21:45 +0100 <kuribas> Perhaps it is hard to do whole-assed.
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2021-11-24 12:28:08 +0100 <opqdonut> dminuoso: I'd expect "let ... in ..." to work in ApplicativeDo, but that's different from "let ...;"
2021-11-24 12:29:19 +0100 <opqdonut> but looks like I was wrong about MonadFail, at least the Haskell2010 standard specifies that <- generates calls to fail but let doesn't
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2021-11-24 12:36:53 +0100 <dminuoso> kuribas: Im not talking about inlining as an optimization.
2021-11-24 12:37:08 +0100 <dminuoso> Im talking about inlining as a sort of gap filler
2021-11-24 12:37:42 +0100 <dminuoso> In the sense of "If ApplicativeDo is enabled, do an additional pass on the do-block inlining all let bindings"
2021-11-24 12:38:15 +0100 <opqdonut> that might surprise some users
2021-11-24 12:38:23 +0100 <opqdonut> breaks the "a defined name is evaluated at most once" rule
2021-11-24 12:39:18 +0100 <kuribas> dminuoso: it looks to me like there is a lot of overhanging fruit for ApplicativeDo.
2021-11-24 12:39:28 +0100 <kuribas> But maybe there are subtle details that I don't see...
2021-11-24 12:39:57 +0100 <dminuoso> opqdonut: Where is that rule written?
2021-11-24 12:40:27 +0100 <dminuoso> Haskell already does inlining everywhere anyway
2021-11-24 12:40:34 +0100 <dminuoso> So I dont have that guarantee either way
2021-11-24 12:41:03 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216)
2021-11-24 12:41:34 +0100 <dminuoso> Or differently phrased: if what you wrote was true, haskell could *never* inline something that was named
2021-11-24 12:41:43 +0100 <dminuoso> Or inline it twice, at least.
2021-11-24 12:41:51 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95716ce002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 12:44:05 +0100 <opqdonut> dminuoso: it's my mental model for reasoning about haskell performance, at least, and it's kinda the definition of lazy evaluation
2021-11-24 12:44:12 +0100 <opqdonut> but yeah it might not be strictly true
2021-11-24 12:44:22 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-30-221.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-24 12:44:31 +0100 <opqdonut> (heh, strictly)
2021-11-24 12:44:43 +0100 <dminuoso> cute pun indeed :()
2021-11-24 12:45:26 +0100 <dminuoso> opqdonut: Im not sure you even need that for lazy evaluation, as long as its not observably different. The only place this matters for is tractable sharing
2021-11-24 12:45:41 +0100 <dminuoso> Because sharing relies on GHC not inlining the very definition
2021-11-24 12:46:22 +0100 <opqdonut> mhmm
2021-11-24 12:46:27 +0100 <dminuoso> And infact, there's a good reason global IORefs use NOLINE
2021-11-24 12:46:31 +0100 <dminuoso> NOINLINE even
2021-11-24 12:47:09 +0100 <dminuoso> Because otherwise GHC would be free to inline that `foo = unsafePerformIO (newIORef "foo")` everywhere
2021-11-24 12:48:46 +0100 <dminuoso> Maybe Ill throw this question towards the GHC folks, they ought to know what the simplifier does best
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2021-11-24 12:49:32 +0100 <arahael> Am I able to have two different versions of ghcup and have it manage their own haskells?
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2021-11-24 12:53:58 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0bb6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-24 12:54:00 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 12:54:25 +0100 <arahael> (It's not a stupid question - I basically want to have two different architectures installed simultaniously)
2021-11-24 12:57:02 +0100 <boxscape_> If I use unsafePerformIO to read a config file, is it advisable to add a NOINLINE pragma?
2021-11-24 12:57:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: I would love for ghc to inline my 1 + x, but wouldn't like my ghc to inline 'sum (primesUntil 1e8)'
2021-11-24 12:58:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> the definition of work duplication becomes fuzzy when talking about optimising compilers, because sometimes duplication of work is beneficial
2021-11-24 12:58:24 +0100 <dminuoso> boxscape_: My two cents are, probably yes?
2021-11-24 12:58:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> but I wouldn't want this to influence whether my do block has a MonadFail constraint -- that's a huge breaking of abstraction
2021-11-24 12:58:49 +0100 <dminuoso> boxscape_: Ive been bitten sorely by unsafePerformIO in multiple ways, suggesting what GHC does is not very intuitive.,
2021-11-24 12:58:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> boxscape_: if you don't want your program to sometimes read the config file lots of times :)
2021-11-24 12:58:55 +0100 <boxscape_> okay
2021-11-24 12:59:02 +0100 <boxscape_> makes sense
2021-11-24 12:59:11 +0100 <nf> how can i turn a lens into a Context/Pretext?
2021-11-24 12:59:22 +0100 <nf> i mean applying it to some structure
2021-11-24 12:59:26 +0100 <dminuoso> boxscape_: My favourite was doing something like `traverse (\x -> Foo { field1 = x, field2 = unsafePerformIO (newIORef []) ) structure`
2021-11-24 12:59:37 +0100 <dminuoso> GHC floated that IORef out, sharing all those mutable buffers into one
2021-11-24 12:59:44 +0100 <boxscape_> oh, nice
2021-11-24 13:00:03 +0100raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 13:01:00 +0100 <dminuoso> nf: You use `sell`
2021-11-24 13:01:04 +0100raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-11-24 13:01:12 +0100 <dminuoso> See https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.1/docs/src/Control.Lens.Lens.html#cloneLens for instance
2021-11-24 13:01:33 +0100 <nf> hm, thanks
2021-11-24 13:01:45 +0100 <nf> isn't that internal
2021-11-24 13:01:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Yes.
2021-11-24 13:02:09 +0100 <dminuoso> You asked how to turn it into Pretext, I answered? :p
2021-11-24 13:02:21 +0100 <dminuoso> nf: What is the problem you are trying to solve?
2021-11-24 13:02:26 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3095:3db8:3339:3962)
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2021-11-24 13:04:12 +0100 <nf> i have a list, say [1, 2, 3]. i want to apply a function Int -> [Int] to each element and get a list of lists
2021-11-24 13:04:28 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:d22:12b7:6d7c:fb3c)
2021-11-24 13:04:45 +0100 <dminuoso> Im a bit baffled, how do you possibly arrive at Context/Pretext with that question?
2021-11-24 13:05:07 +0100yuri(~yuri@85.89.126.31)
2021-11-24 13:05:08 +0100 <nf> good question
2021-11-24 13:05:32 +0100 <dminuoso> Anyway. You just use `fmap` or its operator version `<$>`
2021-11-24 13:05:44 +0100 <nf> that's not what i mean
2021-11-24 13:05:49 +0100 <nf> say f is \n -> replicate n n
2021-11-24 13:06:00 +0100 <nf> i want to get [[1, 2, 3], [1, 2, 2, 3], [1, 2, 3, 3, 3]]
2021-11-24 13:06:19 +0100__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-11-24 13:06:25 +0100 <nf> my current idea is to use suffixed suffix . prefixed prefix
2021-11-24 13:06:33 +0100 <nf> where suffix/prefix map over the tails and inits
2021-11-24 13:06:43 +0100 <nf> that gets me a list of lenses
2021-11-24 13:07:03 +0100 <dminuoso> Im not sure I see the pattern here
2021-11-24 13:07:03 +0100 <nf> then i guess i can just use the lenses on the initial list, i don't really need contexts
2021-11-24 13:07:15 +0100 <dminuoso> And Im also not sure what this has to do with lenses yet
2021-11-24 13:07:44 +0100 <dminuoso> You want the nth element to be replicated n times in place?
2021-11-24 13:08:01 +0100 <nf> that particular f is only an example
2021-11-24 13:08:05 +0100 <nf> it should work for any f
2021-11-24 13:08:21 +0100 <nf> the [] in f's return type isn't nondeterminism, it's the thing i want to insert in place of the element
2021-11-24 13:08:36 +0100 <dminuoso> Ah I see
2021-11-24 13:08:42 +0100 <nf> btw i'm not married to lists, if there's a data structure with a better interface for this i'm all ears
2021-11-24 13:09:12 +0100 <nf> Sequence has sliced but it applies f to each element of the slice. vector has sliced too but it comes with a big warning "don't change the length of the list"
2021-11-24 13:09:45 +0100 <nf> and if you want the FULL full context, i'm trying to solve advent of code 2015 day 19 part 1.
2021-11-24 13:10:19 +0100arahaelis impressed :)
2021-11-24 13:10:21 +0100 <nf> (in an elegant and/or overengineered way)
2021-11-24 13:10:40 +0100 <arahael> I drown the past years in sorrow and continue blindly forwards each year. ;)
2021-11-24 13:11:06 +0100pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-11-24 13:11:13 +0100 <dminuoso> nf: So intuitively Id stare at contextsOf
2021-11-24 13:11:23 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 13:11:28 +0100 <dminuoso> This has Plated written all over it
2021-11-24 13:11:56 +0100 <nf> yeah but the contexts given by contextsOf don't really let you insert a list into a single element
2021-11-24 13:13:07 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst)
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2021-11-24 13:17:41 +0100 <nf> maybe there's something to do with iconcatMap
2021-11-24 13:18:28 +0100 <nf> or concatMapOf
2021-11-24 13:18:55 +0100 <dminuoso> nf: The closest thing I can see is actually Monad on Tree
2021-11-24 13:19:02 +0100 <dminuoso> Is this what you are after?
2021-11-24 13:19:20 +0100 <nf> i was thinking about that
2021-11-24 13:19:39 +0100 <dminuoso> Or rather Monad even on List
2021-11-24 13:20:14 +0100 <nf> that would be the iconcatMap idea
2021-11-24 13:20:50 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:6dfb:d68d:ebe:207)
2021-11-24 13:21:02 +0100 <nf> iconcatMap (\i x -> if i == j then f x else [x]) where j ranges over the length of the list
2021-11-24 13:21:03 +0100 <dminuoso> Yeah I guess
2021-11-24 13:22:09 +0100 <dminuoso> nf: Though I think the i is a red herring, since you can trivially just zip some index into the structure
2021-11-24 13:22:35 +0100 <dminuoso> As long as its Traversable, anyway
2021-11-24 13:22:42 +0100 <nf> yes, it's just convenient
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2021-11-24 13:37:28 +0100 <nf> ugh, my prefixed . suffixed idea just unfolds itself into normal lens-free code
2021-11-24 13:37:56 +0100 <nf> hate when that happens
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2021-11-24 14:13:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh no, no more fancy stuffs, my code is too simple!
2021-11-24 14:14:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> nf: when in need, you can always @pl
2021-11-24 14:14:24 +0100 <nf> :D
2021-11-24 14:14:47 +0100 <arahael> Is it possible to use a custom fork of a dependency?
2021-11-24 14:15:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> with cabal.project or stack.yaml, yes
2021-11-24 14:15:18 +0100 <arahael> Ah, nifty, so I should look at the docs for cabal.project.
2021-11-24 14:15:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> add a git repo dependency with the right name, then I think it will be used instead of the hackage one
2021-11-24 14:15:25 +0100 <arahael> Neat.
2021-11-24 14:15:35 +0100 <arahael> That should work around a basement issue I've got.
2021-11-24 14:15:35 +0100 <maerwald> or create your own hackage repo
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2021-11-24 14:17:26 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: I don't think I want that overhead, but the thought is intriguing.
2021-11-24 14:17:33 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 14:17:46 +0100boxscape_．。ｏＯI should do AoC purely on the type-level one of these days
2021-11-24 14:18:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> tip, uses idris, then that goal can be reached without changing code
2021-11-24 14:18:54 +0100 <boxscape_> that's cheating :(
2021-11-24 14:19:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> agreed
2021-11-24 14:20:35 +0100maerwaldcloses the DH proposal with "go use Idris"
2021-11-24 14:21:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's cheating :(
2021-11-24 14:22:17 +0100 <maerwald> agreed
2021-11-24 14:22:20 +0100 <arahael> This makes me feel good - G'night. :) ( boxscape_: AoC's a good place for cheating. Just don't tell santa.)
2021-11-24 14:22:27 +0100Unhammer(~Unhammer@user/unhammer)
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2021-11-24 14:23:21 +0100 <boxscape_> :)
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2021-11-24 15:26:07 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@181.42.51.52)
2021-11-24 15:26:41 +0100 <slack1256> Does DerivingVia only make sense for newtypes, not for data? is that right?
2021-11-24 15:28:51 +0100 <boxscape_> that's right
2021-11-24 15:28:53 +0100 <int-e> The intermediate type (the `via` one) is always a newtype.
2021-11-24 15:29:07 +0100ec(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-11-24 15:29:10 +0100reumeth(~reumeth@user/reumeth)
2021-11-24 15:29:12 +0100 <[exa]> slack1256: it explicitly requires that the 2 things are coercible, which basically means that it must be a newtype
2021-11-24 15:29:24 +0100 <int-e> But you can derive instances for any type. So... which of these types is the question about?
2021-11-24 15:29:57 +0100 <boxscape_> right, you could have something like `data Foo a = ... deriving Show via Bar Foo`, here `Bar` has to be a newtype
2021-11-24 15:30:08 +0100 <nf> looking for inspiration, what do i name a function of type Ord k => [(k, a)] -> Map k [a] ?
2021-11-24 15:30:30 +0100 <int-e> :t M.fromListWith (++)
2021-11-24 15:30:31 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-24 15:30:31 +0100 <lambdabot> Ord k => [(k, [a])] -> M.Map k [a]
2021-11-24 15:30:39 +0100 <nf> not quite
2021-11-24 15:30:42 +0100 <int-e> :t M.fromListWith (++) . map (second pure)
2021-11-24 15:30:43 +0100 <lambdabot> Ord k => [(k, a)] -> M.Map k [a]
2021-11-24 15:30:43 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-11-24 15:31:03 +0100 <nf> now give it a name
2021-11-24 15:31:05 +0100 <slack1256> boxscape_ , int-e : Got it, it is clear now! :-)
2021-11-24 15:31:19 +0100 <janus> tomsmeding: code evaluated at compile time in idris can be way slower. so it is not always feasible to take previously compiled code and evaluate it
2021-11-24 15:31:21 +0100 <int-e> nf: I've done it a number of time and never named it
2021-11-24 15:31:34 +0100slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-11-24 15:31:37 +0100 <int-e> nf: so I'll just refuse again.
2021-11-24 15:31:45 +0100 <nf> :(
2021-11-24 15:32:55 +0100 <int-e> well, `group` or `classify` are verbs in this context
2021-11-24 15:33:03 +0100emf(~emf@163.114.132.7) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-11-24 15:33:47 +0100renatofdds[m](~renatofdd@2001:470:69fc:105::1:3cfe) ()
2021-11-24 15:33:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> janus: who said anything about performance :)
2021-11-24 15:34:10 +0100jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:1d7b:c50:11c3:7017)
2021-11-24 15:34:12 +0100 <tomsmeding> but you're right of course
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2021-11-24 15:35:01 +0100 <janus> but with AoC don't you have to submit some kind of result? if it finishes a computation, nothing can be submitted
2021-11-24 15:35:11 +0100 <janus> *if it never
2021-11-24 15:35:40 +0100 <boxscape_> usually the performance requirements aren't *too* bad as long as you choose an algorithm with alright asymptotics
2021-11-24 15:36:50 +0100 <boxscape_> I think I'm misunderstanding readPrec. I have `newtype Day = MkDay Int`, and `instance Read Day where readPrec = MkDay <$> readPrec @Int`. But if I try something like `read "24" :: Day`, I get an infinite loop. Any idea why?
2021-11-24 15:37:23 +0100emf(~emf@2620:10d:c091:480::1:8be1)
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2021-11-24 15:38:02 +0100 <janus> boxscape_: i had a problem the other day with type-level nats being way to slow when interpreted. the asymptotics are probably the same but the constant factor is way larger. so given that i am just a beginning idris programmer and i ran into this, i am not convinced it is usually ok. asymptotics don't matter if the constants are huge.
2021-11-24 15:38:40 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
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2021-11-24 15:39:22 +0100 <boxscape_> doesn't that change the asymptotics because Idris uses unary for type-level nats but binary for term-level nats? I could be wrong.
2021-11-24 15:39:26 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@181.42.51.52) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 15:40:22 +0100 <boxscape_> (Though to be clear I meant the performance requirements for AOC, I didn't mean to comment before on how using a function on a type-level in Idris affects its performance)
2021-11-24 15:43:58 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-11-24 15:45:22 +0100 <boxscape_> Okay when I try the same thing yahb it's not an infinite loop, hmm
2021-11-24 15:45:42 +0100ees(~user@pool-108-18-30-46.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-11-24 15:45:54 +0100 <boxscape_> Ohh I think my Show instance is actually what's producing the infinite loop
2021-11-24 15:46:31 +0100emf_(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2b81)
2021-11-24 15:47:19 +0100 <kuribas> janus: slow to compile?
2021-11-24 15:47:51 +0100emf(~emf@2620:10d:c091:480::1:8be1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-11-24 15:48:57 +0100 <janus> kuribas: yes, because code evaluated at compile time is apparently never compiled, always interpreted
2021-11-24 15:49:27 +0100 <kuribas> janus: that makes sense, because type checking must preserve syntax.
2021-11-24 15:50:02 +0100 <kuribas> janus: or you need a compiler that can pre-compile, while preserving syntax.
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2021-11-24 15:50:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> more than preserving syntax, you need to _partially evaluate_, which is quite different from normal full evaluation
2021-11-24 15:51:01 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
2021-11-24 15:51:04 +0100 <kuribas> janus: But I doubt it's a current goal for idris, it just wants to have a working compiler, and put optimizations as much as possible on the backend.
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2021-11-24 15:54:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> nf: groupToMap
2021-11-24 15:55:09 +0100 <nf> thx
2021-11-24 15:55:15 +0100 <kuribas> also, typechecking and evaluation is intertwined, so I don't it's trivial to "compile" type level.
2021-11-24 15:55:41 +0100 <kuribas> Maybe an interesting topic for someone's PHD :)
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2021-11-24 16:19:33 +0100MiguelNegrao(~MiguelNeg@194.210.216.113)
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2021-11-24 16:21:58 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> Hi all, I need to write a function which receives an 'HList as' with the following constraints: all 'as' are of type '(Text,Something o -> o)' and there is a Constraint on 'o'. Is this possible ? Eventually I want to call hMap on it.
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2021-11-24 16:33:56 +0100 <kuribas> looking at the HList library makes my head hurt...
2021-11-24 16:33:58 +0100fresheyeball(~fresheyeb@c-76-25-93-164.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2021-11-24 16:34:42 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> indeed... :-(
2021-11-24 16:36:06 +0100akegalj(~akegalj@50-194.dsl.iskon.hr) (Quit: leaving)
2021-11-24 16:36:16 +0100 <kuribas> out of curiosity, what are you trying to do?
2021-11-24 16:36:28 +0100 <kuribas> That needs fancy types?
2021-11-24 16:36:50 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-24 16:40:50 +0100zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@2001:2003:f6bc:f00:4c2d:8074:ff8b:55dd)
2021-11-24 16:41:02 +0100shryke(~shryke@91.103.43.254) (WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-24 16:41:47 +0100 <kuribas> There should be an 'All' constraint on type level lists somewhere...
2021-11-24 16:42:00 +0100 <kuribas> And you can make an intermediary class to catch that constraint.
2021-11-24 16:43:01 +0100 <kuribas> But my best advice is, don't do this stuff in haskell :-P
2021-11-24 16:44:31 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> In gtk Its possible to get a group of widgets to be constucted based on a text file generated by GUI which lets you design windows and widgets
2021-11-24 16:45:04 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> Then it is possible to extract the individual widgets from a text label, but you need to provide the type that it should have
2021-11-24 16:45:27 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> I wanted to do it all in a function, construct the widgets and extract them with the right type
2021-11-24 16:45:28 +0100 <kuribas> link to do?
2021-11-24 16:45:32 +0100 <kuribas> to doc
2021-11-24 16:46:42 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> The relevant function is https://github.com/mr/reactive-banana-gi-gtk/blob/b1b72d58bf45ac111e320cc0308d00ce6f9fbfe4/reactiv…
2021-11-24 16:47:10 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> Instead of a single GObject o I want to deal with a list of them
2021-11-24 16:47:30 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-30-221.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-24 16:48:02 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> But each o will have a different type
2021-11-24 16:48:11 +0100 <kuribas> Couldn't you use an existential instead?
2021-11-24 16:50:17 +0100 <kuribas> data AnyGObject = forall o . GObject o => AnyGObject o
2021-11-24 16:50:49 +0100 <kuribas> Then [AnyGObject o] -> ...
2021-11-24 16:50:57 +0100 <kuribas> erm [AnyGObject]
2021-11-24 16:51:10 +0100 <kuribas> well something like that.
2021-11-24 16:51:20 +0100 <kuribas> Seems much more sane than HList.
2021-11-24 16:51:44 +0100 <kuribas> Most likely there is an even easier way, but hard to say without context.
2021-11-24 16:51:53 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-30-221.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 16:51:58 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> Right, I think that would work, but would require wrapping each element in AnyGObject. On the other hand HList also requires knowing the syntax for constructing the list, so it might be as onerous to the user.
2021-11-24 16:52:21 +0100 <kuribas> Existentials are way easier then HLists.
2021-11-24 16:52:28 +0100 <kuribas> But still fancy haskell mind you...
2021-11-24 16:53:10 +0100 <MiguelNegrao> Thanks, for the suggestion, I might go with that.
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2021-11-24 16:54:45 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-11-24 16:54:59 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216)
2021-11-24 16:55:59 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-11-24 16:57:54 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 16:59:06 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 16:59:18 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:02:26 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3095:3db8:3339:3962) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:04:13 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:04:31 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:04:44 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@37.171.24.180)
2021-11-24 17:05:24 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-11-24 17:06:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:10:27 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:10:45 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:11:51 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:13:41 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 17:16:41 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:16:58 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:17:35 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d837:dc58:2ea7:10e8)
2021-11-24 17:18:15 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-11-24 17:22:55 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:23:13 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:24:53 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:25:08 +0100cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20)
2021-11-24 17:25:11 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:28:02 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:28:20 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:28:26 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@37.171.24.180) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-11-24 17:29:21 +0100zmt01(~zmt00@user/zmt00)
2021-11-24 17:31:59 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:32:16 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:33:17 +0100zmt00(~zmt00@user/zmt00) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:42:43 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:43:15 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216)
2021-11-24 17:43:57 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:44:08 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-11-24 17:44:14 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:44:51 +0100rkrishnan(~user@122.172.141.170) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:47:26 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:48:01 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-11-24 17:48:27 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:50:48 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@d60-65-25-145.col.wideopenwest.com)
2021-11-24 17:52:22 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:53:51 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 17:55:08 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-11-24 17:55:09 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-11-24 17:56:49 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 17:57:07 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 17:59:26 +0100enoq(~enoq@2a05:1141:1f5:5600:b9c9:721a:599:bfe7) (Quit: enoq)
2021-11-24 17:59:38 +0100mreh(~mreh@2a00:23c7:2803:ef00:6835:402a:bc64:5737)
2021-11-24 18:00:05 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-24 18:01:57 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@212.232.84.133)
2021-11-24 18:01:57 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@212.232.84.133) (Changing host)
2021-11-24 18:01:57 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
2021-11-24 18:02:27 +0100dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer)
2021-11-24 18:03:16 +0100ysh(sid6017@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:03:41 +0100JSharp(sid4580@lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:04:08 +0100ysh(sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:04:19 +0100mreh(~mreh@2a00:23c7:2803:ef00:6835:402a:bc64:5737) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:04:56 +0100Firedancer(sid336191@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:05:21 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:06:15 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-11-24 18:06:15 +0100Firedancer(sid336191@id-336191.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:06:30 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@id-385034.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:07:05 +0100mei8(~mei@user/mei)
2021-11-24 18:07:13 +0100burnside_(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-24 18:07:13 +0100Codaraxis_(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2021-11-24 18:07:47 +0100sm2n_(~sm2n@user/sm2n)
2021-11-24 18:08:15 +0100ralu6(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de)
2021-11-24 18:08:23 +0100raoul2(~raoul@95.179.203.88)
2021-11-24 18:08:50 +0100vdsa(~pc@41.68.196.175)
2021-11-24 18:08:54 +0100vdsa(~pc@41.68.196.175) (K-Lined)
2021-11-24 18:09:02 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 18:09:19 +0100FragByte_(~christian@user/fragbyte)
2021-11-24 18:09:20 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 18:09:23 +0100cfebs_(~cfebs@user/cfebs)
2021-11-24 18:09:23 +0100connrs_(~connrs@user/connrs)
2021-11-24 18:09:24 +0100a1paca_(~a1paca@user/a1paca)
2021-11-24 18:09:27 +0100gaff(~gaff@49.207.205.97) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2021-11-24 18:09:48 +0100cfricke_(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-11-24 18:10:03 +0100gaff(~gaff@49.207.205.97)
2021-11-24 18:10:15 +0100S11001001_(sid42510@id-42510.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:10:27 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-11-24 18:10:31 +0100hueso_(~root@user/hueso)
2021-11-24 18:11:06 +0100chele(~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 18:11:12 +0100betelgeuse(~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-24 18:11:20 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 18:11:40 +0100m1dnight_(~christoph@christophe.dev)
2021-11-24 18:11:54 +0100stilgart_(~Christoph@chezlefab.net)
2021-11-24 18:11:57 +0100carter_(sid14827@id-14827.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:12:03 +0100MiguelNegrao(~MiguelNeg@194.210.216.113) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-11-24 18:12:06 +0100mcglk_(~mcglk@131.191.49.120)
2021-11-24 18:12:07 +0100kritzefitz_(~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz)
2021-11-24 18:12:12 +0100slowButP1esent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-11-24 18:13:35 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:13:57 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:13:59 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@d60-65-25-145.col.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:14:12 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:e6b3:18ff:fe83:8f33) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 18:16:24 +0100lbseale(~ep1ctetus@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-11-24 18:16:42 +0100ysh(sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d837:dc58:2ea7:10e8) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100Moyst(~moyst@user/moyst) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100emf_(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2b81) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:1d7b:c50:11c3:7017) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100acowley(~acowley@c-68-83-22-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:6dfb:d68d:ebe:207) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@p4ff0bb6c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.49.120) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100whatif(~user@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100cfebs(~cfebs@user/cfebs) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:43 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5337:5300:9054:dfe3:6e71:3a05) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100mei(~mei@user/mei) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100sprout_(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:4de4:2055:b8c4:f1e) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100zaquest(~notzaques@5.130.79.72) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100dsrt^(~dsrt@68.101.63.101) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100stilgart(~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100FragByte(~christian@user/fragbyte) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100motherfsck(~motherfsc@user/motherfsck) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Jing(~hedgehog@2604:a840:3::105f) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100echoreply(~echoreply@45.32.163.16) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100saolsen(sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100tapas(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100cbarrett(sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100enemeth79(sid309041@id-309041.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100S11001001(sid42510@5.254.36.60) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100lagash(lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100siers(~ij@user/ij) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100bjs(sid190364@user/bjs) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100m1dnight(~christoph@christophe.dev) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0iagc74l4rb6r6j.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100mrianbloom(sid350277@id-350277.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100dmj`(sid72307@id-72307.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100acertain(sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100sm2n(~sm2n@user/sm2n) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100a1paca(~a1paca@user/a1paca) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Pent(sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100ralu(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100connrs(~connrs@user/connrs) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100gaze___(sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100hueso(~root@user/hueso) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100gustik(~gustik@2a01:c844:240a:de20:3606:7339:bc88:b5f5) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100V(~v@anomalous.eu) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100raoul(~raoul@95.179.203.88) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100AndreasK(sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100SethTisue__(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100hongminhee(sid295@id-295.tinside.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100carter(sid14827@helmsley.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Boarders_(sid425905@lymington.irccloud.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100FragByte_FragByte
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100raoul2raoul
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100carter_carter
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100mei8mei
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100S11001001_S11001001
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100cfebs_cfebs
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100ralu6ralu
2021-11-24 18:16:45 +0100connrs_connrs
2021-11-24 18:18:22 +0100kritzefitz_kritzefitz
2021-11-24 18:18:22 +0100mreh(~mreh@2a00:23c7:2803:ef00:6835:402a:bc64:5737)
2021-11-24 18:18:22 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@d60-65-25-145.col.wideopenwest.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:04 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-11-24 18:22:27 +0100mreh(~mreh@2a00:23c7:2803:ef00:6835:402a:bc64:5737) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100acowley(~acowley@c-68-83-22-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100dsrt^(~dsrt@68.101.63.101)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100Boarders_(sid425905@id-425905.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100JSharp(sid4580@id-4580.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100ysh(sid6017@id-6017.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:d837:dc58:2ea7:10e8)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100emf_(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2b81)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:1d7b:c50:11c3:7017)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:71d0:6dfb:d68d:ebe:207)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100whatif(~user@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5337:5300:9054:dfe3:6e71:3a05)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100sprout_(~quassel@2a02:a467:ccd6:1:4de4:2055:b8c4:f1e)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100albet70(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100Jing(~hedgehog@2604:a840:3::105f)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100saolsen(sid26430@id-26430.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100tapas(sid467876@id-467876.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100cbarrett(sid192934@id-192934.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100enemeth79(sid309041@id-309041.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:54 +0100lagash(lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100siers(~ij@user/ij)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100bjs(sid190364@user/bjs)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0iagc74l4rb6r6j.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100mrianbloom(sid350277@id-350277.ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100dmj`(sid72307@id-72307.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100acertain(sid470584@id-470584.hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100Pent(sid313808@id-313808.lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100gaze___(sid387101@id-387101.helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100gustik(~gustik@2a01:c844:240a:de20:3606:7339:bc88:b5f5)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100V(~v@anomalous.eu)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100AndreasK(sid320732@id-320732.uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-24 18:22:55 +0100SethTisue__(sid14912@id-14912.ilkley.irccloud.com)
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2021-11-24 18:25:49 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@181.42.51.52)
2021-11-24 18:27:01 +0100 <slack1256> I think we need a "heartbeat" for hackage pages. It would a soft way of saying "we haven't updated this package since 2016, but it still compiles and works on ghc 9.2.1". Do other communities have something similar?
2021-11-24 18:27:58 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@212.232.84.133)
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2021-11-24 18:28:51 +0100 <geekosaur> there is one sort of, I think? there's some stuff about last successful build, but I don't know if it retries the build when a new ghc is released
2021-11-24 18:30:31 +0100xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
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2021-11-24 18:37:16 +0100 <kuribas> Does there exist a zipFoldMap?
2021-11-24 18:37:51 +0100 <awpr> I use metadata revisions for that kind of heartbeat. if it doesn't need revisions to keep building after a new GHC release, then its version bounds were done incorrectly
2021-11-24 18:38:06 +0100 <kuribas> like zipFoldMap :: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> b -> m) -> t a -> t b -> m
2021-11-24 18:38:31 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-11-24 18:38:43 +0100 <awpr> so, recent revisions => "probably still maintained", and no recent revisions => "unmaintained or unreliable"
2021-11-24 18:39:11 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc147334-finc20-2-0-cust27.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-11-24 18:39:30 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc147334-finc20-2-0-cust27.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-11-24 18:39:31 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216)
2021-11-24 18:40:26 +0100 <kuribas> :t \f a b -> foldMap (uncurry f) $ zip a b
2021-11-24 18:40:27 +0100 <lambdabot> Monoid m => (a -> b -> m) -> [a] -> [b] -> m
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2021-11-24 19:06:20 +0100ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@user/ezzieyguywuf)
2021-11-24 19:07:27 +0100 <EvanR> kuribas, wouldn't that be better served by doing like... a bifold instead of going though a tuple
2021-11-24 19:09:17 +0100 <kuribas> :t bifold
2021-11-24 19:09:18 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-11-24 19:09:18 +0100 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: bifold
2021-11-24 19:09:18 +0100 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
2021-11-24 19:09:25 +0100 <kuribas> @hoogle bifold
2021-11-24 19:09:26 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Bifoldable bifold :: (Bifoldable p, Monoid m) => p m m -> m
2021-11-24 19:09:26 +0100 <lambdabot> RIO.Prelude bifold :: (Bifoldable p, Monoid m) => p m m -> m
2021-11-24 19:09:26 +0100 <lambdabot> Relude.Foldable.Reexport bifold :: (Bifoldable p, Monoid m) => p m m -> m
2021-11-24 19:11:58 +0100 <slack1256> geekosaur: Oh, that is a equivalent signal!
2021-11-24 19:12:23 +0100 <slack1256> Well, it would be if `--allow-newer` was the default
2021-11-24 19:12:41 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:14:05 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 19:14:10 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:15:17 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-11-24 19:16:36 +0100 <EvanR> heh, instance Bifoldable BiList
2021-11-24 19:17:44 +0100 <EvanR> the way they accomplish your zip map thing is with AppEndo monoid
2021-11-24 19:18:25 +0100 <dsal> monochrom: what's that thing you say about brains and memoization? I asked lambdabot but it wasn't helpful.
2021-11-24 19:19:07 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-11-24 19:19:51 +0100 <monochrom> Memoized randomization. You form an opinion randomly, then remember that you stand by that opinion.
2021-11-24 19:20:08 +0100 <dsal> It's Oh yes!
2021-11-24 19:20:28 +0100 <dsal> Thanks. :)
2021-11-24 19:20:51 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-11-24 19:22:34 +0100Topsi(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-095-172.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-11-24 19:22:51 +0100 <EvanR> gotta clear the opinion cache or it gets out of date
2021-11-24 19:23:12 +0100 <dsal> I try pretty hard not to remember things when I can avoid it.
2021-11-24 19:23:13 +0100 <geekosaur> if only that worked
2021-11-24 19:23:29 +0100 <[exa]> flush the cache with quality fermented contents.
2021-11-24 19:23:50 +0100slack4341(~slack1256@181.42.51.52)
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2021-11-24 19:24:19 +0100 <monochrom> My observation is that humans don't tend to update their opinions over time.
2021-11-24 19:25:34 +0100tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-11-24 19:25:45 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-181-60-139.range86-181.btcentralplus.com)
2021-11-24 19:25:47 +0100mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-11-24 19:25:57 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@191.126.99.81) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:26:13 +0100 <dsal> You mean your persistent opinion is that humans don't tend to update their opinions over time.
2021-11-24 19:26:21 +0100 <monochrom> haha
2021-11-24 19:26:34 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:a418:17da:6b4f:5fc3) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-11-24 19:26:55 +0100 <dsal> People do tend to back-rationalize just about anything, though.
2021-11-24 19:27:09 +0100 <dsal> If I prove you wrong, you just disagree for a different reason.
2021-11-24 19:27:09 +0100emf(~emf@2620:10d:c090:400::5:2b81)
2021-11-24 19:27:37 +0100 <monochrom> This is known as creativity!
2021-11-24 19:28:03 +0100jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:1d7b:c50:11c3:7017) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:28:47 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:29:24 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:d22:12b7:6d7c:fb3c)
2021-11-24 19:29:32 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-11-24 19:30:29 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 19:30:54 +0100 <monochrom> Today I saw a conference announcement on the haskell mailing list, the MSFP one, and the phrase "[where would] call-by-push-values [be] without adjunctions?" caught my attention.
2021-11-24 19:31:34 +0100 <monochrom> So I Googled call-by-push-values and eventually found the PhD thesis that started it: https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~pbl/papers/thesisqmwphd.pdf
2021-11-24 19:31:37 +0100 <EvanR> call by push value ...
2021-11-24 19:32:00 +0100 <monochrom> That is going to be a very deep rabbit hole...
2021-11-24 19:32:43 +0100 <int-e> just don't drink from labelled bottles
2021-11-24 19:33:08 +0100 <int-e> (stick to the mushrooms instead)
2021-11-24 19:33:21 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-24 19:33:37 +0100 <dsal> int-e: ++
2021-11-24 19:33:41 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:33:59 +0100 <monochrom> I don't understnad.
2021-11-24 19:34:29 +0100 <EvanR> 🍄 1UP
2021-11-24 19:34:53 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:d22:12b7:6d7c:fb3c) (Quit: gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-11-24 19:34:55 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8108:1100:16d8:a418:17da:6b4f:5fc3)
2021-11-24 19:35:18 +0100 <int-e> Oh you should read Charles Dogson's thesis on rabbit holes then.
2021-11-24 19:35:19 +0100 <geekosaur> was thinking lewis carroll vs. mario…
2021-11-24 19:35:44 +0100 <int-e> geekosaur: There's a mushroom in Alice in Wonderland too.
2021-11-24 19:36:02 +0100 <int-e> I think. I may be mixing up the books, there are several and it's been a while.
2021-11-24 19:36:11 +0100 <geekosaur> yes, I know, but they weren't so different from the bottles
2021-11-24 19:36:32 +0100 <int-e> geekosaur: We *were* discussing opinions.
2021-11-24 19:36:35 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-11-24 19:36:36 +0100 <int-e> :)
2021-11-24 19:37:17 +0100Flonk(~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-11-24 19:37:30 +0100dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 19:37:52 +0100 <int-e> geekosaur: I have no problem with the Mario association... it just didn't occur to me.
2021-11-24 19:38:30 +0100 <geekosaur> I was kinda riffing on EvanR and thinking you leap out of the hole for the mushrooms
2021-11-24 19:38:32 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-11-24 19:39:08 +0100 <geekosaur> so kinda mishmashing my references a bit :)
2021-11-24 19:39:30 +0100Flonk(~Flonk@vps-zap441517-1.zap-srv.com)
2021-11-24 19:39:40 +0100 <EvanR> so my emoji made it through the transporter beam in one piece
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2021-11-24 20:33:59 +0100 <dsal> I realize I don't *really* understand record syntax. What's the best way to fix htat?
2021-11-24 20:34:12 +0100 <dsal> e.g., it didn't even occur to me it could change types.
2021-11-24 20:34:22 +0100 <geekosaur> the modern way seems to be "don't use it" :þ
2021-11-24 20:34:59 +0100 <dsal> I'm not actually, but apparently $> confuses people.
2021-11-24 20:35:29 +0100 <dsal> And lens is generally banned, so if already don't like me using *sigh* a type variable, then saying "let's just use lens" is probably not going to help.
2021-11-24 20:35:37 +0100 <Rembane_> dsal: This makes me curious. What's the main stumbling block to use $>?
2021-11-24 20:35:52 +0100 <monochrom> I think you now understand record syntax. That's the last piece you were missing.
2021-11-24 20:36:03 +0100 <EvanR> you have a haskell job and lens is banned? interesting
2021-11-24 20:36:06 +0100 <dsal> Rembane_: I'm just assigning a value to a field.
2021-11-24 20:36:24 +0100 <monochrom> Although, I can't connect record syntax with $>
2021-11-24 20:36:37 +0100 <Rembane_> dsal: And your coworkers go bananas?
2021-11-24 20:36:51 +0100 <dsal> x $> v could be x { field = v }
2021-11-24 20:37:04 +0100[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-24 20:37:13 +0100 <Cale> There's another thing which may be surprising: you can use patterns of the form (K {}) to match a constructor with zero or more fields even if your type was not defined using record syntax
2021-11-24 20:37:14 +0100 <dsal> I don't disagree with that one. It just never even occurred to me to use record syntax here.
2021-11-24 20:37:21 +0100 <geekosaur> Rembane_: weird senior programmer who thinks most idiomatic haskell is "too hard"
2021-11-24 20:37:53 +0100 <dsal> geekosaur: I have two kinds. The weird senior guy and the weird junior guy. This one is the latter.
2021-11-24 20:38:09 +0100 <monochrom> "bananas" is exactly right
2021-11-24 20:38:13 +0100 <Rembane_> That there are two must make it all much more ... interesting.
2021-11-24 20:38:30 +0100 <dsal> It's a thing that all of us have to use and his thing is *super* hard to use. I made it super easy to use, but the implementation complexity isn't worth it. (I reduced complexity considerably)
2021-11-24 20:40:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> dsal: by now you've probably figured that out, but I think semantically, for `data K a b c = K a b c`, the record update function `\x -> K { b = x }` is semantically equivalent to the function 'foo x (K a _ c) = K a x c`, with its appropriate most general type
2021-11-24 20:40:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> which, here, allows changing a type parameter
2021-11-24 20:40:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> generalise as appropriate to other data type definitions :p
2021-11-24 20:40:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh, 'data K a b c = K { a :: a, b :: b, c :: c }' of course
2021-11-24 20:41:21 +0100 <monochrom> I was surprised when I learned this a long time ago, too. But it is retrospectively natural since it is a syntax sugar.
2021-11-24 20:41:23 +0100 <dsal> tomsmeding: Yeah. It's weird that it just never occurred to me that I could do it that way. I thought "I've got a type variable, so this is a functor" and went down that path.
2021-11-24 20:41:31 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 20:41:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> dsal: yeah, I would've done the same :p
2021-11-24 20:42:22 +0100 <dsal> The junior guy asked why I didn't do the record thing and I was like, "That's not the same!" then realized I'm probably dumb and checked. Of course it's the same. If I were writing a lens, that's exactly what I'd do.
2021-11-24 20:42:33 +0100 <EvanR> functors everywhere
2021-11-24 20:42:37 +0100 <Cale> It can be good for code readability to have a chance to say which field is being updated
2021-11-24 20:43:10 +0100 <dsal> Just gonna newtype the hell out of this thing so I can have a functor for every field and coerce for my <$>
2021-11-24 20:43:15 +0100 <monochrom> Bah these days it's adjoint functors everywhere for me.
2021-11-24 20:43:15 +0100 <Cale> I like <$ quite a bit most of the time, but there have been times when it has obscured what should have been an obvious bug
2021-11-24 20:43:39 +0100 <dsal> Yeah, I think the field update thing is actually the right thing here.
2021-11-24 20:44:00 +0100 <monochrom> The "field update" mental model is pretty universal.
2021-11-24 20:44:03 +0100 <dsal> There's also the "What if we have more of these!" which I rejected a couple of times. mu. But that argument also goes away.
2021-11-24 20:44:41 +0100 <dsal> My brain just changed shape s lightly to think of field update as also changing the type since I've never actually held those two concepts near each other.
2021-11-24 20:45:20 +0100 <monochrom> That one is a surprise. Don't blame yourself. :)
2021-11-24 20:45:54 +0100 <monochrom> Also it usually doesn't hurt, even when you aren't aware of it.
2021-11-24 20:46:07 +0100 <dsal> Nah, I love finding out I'm wrong about stuff. I sit around wondering what I'm wrong about and just not knowing most of the time.
2021-11-24 20:46:41 +0100 <monochrom> Ah. Did you know that Earth rotation is slowing down? >:)
2021-11-24 20:47:48 +0100 <dsal> I knew of that at the listicle level. I watch lots of YouTube channels that make me feel like I know about things.
2021-11-24 20:48:03 +0100 <dsal> (about is the keyword there)
2021-11-24 20:48:51 +0100 <monochrom> Ah. Have you watched the recent Veritasium video that explains how electric energy is transferred, and it is not exactly via current or even the cable? >:)
2021-11-24 20:49:43 +0100 <EvanR> god I hate that video
2021-11-24 20:50:00 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:4cc1:c671:40b5:6186) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-24 20:50:14 +0100 <EvanR> I'm waiting for his follow up where he apologizes and clarifies
2021-11-24 20:50:23 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2021-11-24 20:50:24 +0100 <dsal> I... played that video. I didn't follow it very closely, though.
2021-11-24 20:50:43 +0100 <monochrom> ObHaskell: Did you know that GHC compiles "if null xs then foo else bar (head xs) (tail xs)" to "case xs of [] -> foo; x:xt -> bar x xt" so it is "OK"? >:)
2021-11-24 20:50:55 +0100 <dsal> I build radio stuff and do various electronics junk, but I don't pretend to understand how EM stuff works.
2021-11-24 20:51:27 +0100 <monochrom> Sounds about right for the sterotypical programmer >:)
2021-11-24 20:51:31 +0100 <EvanR> physics is full of stories
2021-11-24 20:52:04 +0100 <monochrom> Err no, sounds about the opposite.
2021-11-24 20:52:31 +0100 <monochrom> The stereotypical programmer does pretend they understand. >:)
2021-11-24 20:52:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> typical for stereo people?
2021-11-24 20:53:19 +0100 <dsal> I back and forth between pretending I understand and accepting I don't. Haskell has a lot of great abstractions that can be used pretty well without understanding them.
2021-11-24 20:53:41 +0100 <dsal> i.e., lazy understanding. I'll eventually force the understanding after I've been using this abstraction for a bit.
2021-11-24 20:54:32 +0100 <monochrom> Haha stereo people. There is a Chinese proverb, "the government official has two mouths", to express that the government official can decree whatever they want and thus wins all arguments. That would be stereo people.
2021-11-24 20:55:38 +0100 <monochrom> It concides with the character 官 for officials containing two mouth parts (the two squares).
2021-11-24 20:56:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> heh nice
2021-11-24 20:58:16 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-11-24 20:59:37 +0100 <janus> EvanR: what's wrong with the video?
2021-11-24 21:00:06 +0100 <EvanR> we have to wait for his follow up to find out
2021-11-24 21:00:17 +0100 <EvanR> was the whole thing
2021-11-24 21:01:48 +0100 <janus> at the end he recognizes that it is controversial to explain
2021-11-24 21:01:59 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-181-60-139.range86-181.btcentralplus.com)
2021-11-24 21:03:06 +0100 <int-e> monochrom: "did you know" -- I'd expect that (inline null, head, tail, and elide the redundant case matches) but never checked whether it gets them all :P
2021-11-24 21:03:31 +0100 <Cale> The main thing which is misleading about it, I think, is that none of the magnitudes of the vectors are being considered, and we're being asked an idealised question using a lightbulb that will light instantly with any amount of power being delivered
2021-11-24 21:04:15 +0100 <Cale> Some amount of power will doubtless be delivered in 1m/c seconds, but how much is a good question.
2021-11-24 21:05:14 +0100juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.82) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 21:05:26 +0100 <monochrom> int-e: I wrote an article touching on null-head-tail, so I have a motive to actually check. :)
2021-11-24 21:05:40 +0100 <monochrom> To be sure, I am a rare writer. Most writers don't want to check.
2021-11-24 21:07:14 +0100 <EvanR> yeah I had to fill in the 1 "meter" over c myself xD
2021-11-24 21:07:45 +0100 <int-e> monochrom: right, and you can't really know without checking
2021-11-24 21:07:47 +0100 <monochrom> Oh yeah, that one I looked at "1/c" and thought "wrong unit, discarded".
2021-11-24 21:08:10 +0100 <int-e> even if you have a good reason to believe that ghc will elide all the redundant checks :)
2021-11-24 21:08:12 +0100juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.82)
2021-11-24 21:08:57 +0100mrckndt(~mrckndt@user/mrckndt)
2021-11-24 21:10:21 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-032.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-24 21:11:05 +0100 <Cale> But there ought to be a not insubstantial fraction of the power... not at 1m/c seconds, but slightly afterward. You pretty quickly get a situation that effectively has antennas attached to the ends of the battery, and as the fields from those antennas propagate across, you'll get some amount of power being delivered. Not sure it'll be enough to light an incandescent bulb though.
2021-11-24 21:11:55 +0100slack4341(~slack1256@181.42.51.52) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-11-24 21:12:21 +0100mrckndt(~mrckndt@user/mrckndt)
2021-11-24 21:13:13 +0100 <monochrom> Did you also read the slides linked in the description? There you have two physicists specializing in EM or power transmission doing the detailed modeling. There are graphs show that they predict that the power level increases slowly, as you expect.
2021-11-24 21:13:28 +0100 <EvanR> there will be like an evanescent wave between the transmission lines
2021-11-24 21:14:13 +0100 <Cale> I haven't, and I also haven't really done the calculations to know what any of the magnitudes are... this is just my intuition about what will happen.
2021-11-24 21:14:30 +0100 <monochrom> And there is even a wacky scenerio in which there is an overshoot.
2021-11-24 21:16:06 +0100 <Cale> Well, from another perspective it's like a tiny (but expanding... and eventually shorting out) capacitor being attached to a DC source, so seeing a spike seems to make some sense
2021-11-24 21:17:02 +0100 <monochrom> Ah the capacitor view is nice.
2021-11-24 21:17:26 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216)
2021-11-24 21:19:01 +0100 <Sqaure> Im mostly using Nix for my projects lately. I would want to start using Haskell for scripting more. How do you install haskel for scripting? Im feeling a complete, per script, download of libraries and ghc feels a bit savy. Also would be neat to avoid that first "setup". But then again, global install of ghc + libs might lead to old cabal life?! Any smart trick around this?
2021-11-24 21:19:04 +0100cosimone(~user@93-47-230-47.ip115.fastwebnet.it)
2021-11-24 21:19:38 +0100 <dsal> If you're using nix, then nix can manage your ghcs and stuff.
2021-11-24 21:19:58 +0100 <Cale> Sqaure: Well, you'll end up with GHC and all the related libraries in your nix store after first use, so as long as you're not often switching, it's a one-time cost.
2021-11-24 21:20:01 +0100 <dsal> I just use haskell.nix for a project. Nothing I'd consider a "script" (I just make a new stack project when I want to do a thing), but I'm curious how stack scripts and nix work together.
2021-11-24 21:20:19 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 21:20:29 +0100 <Sqaure> Ah ok. So you encourage Nix for scripting. Makes sense.
2021-11-24 21:20:34 +0100bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2021-11-24 21:20:51 +0100 <Cale> I have this: nix-shell -p "(import <nixpkgs> {}).haskell.packages.ghc884.ghcWithPackages (pkgs: with pkgs; [ $* ])"
2021-11-24 21:21:08 +0100 <Cale> in a file called "ghcWithPackages" marked executable in my ~/bin
2021-11-24 21:21:30 +0100 <Cale> and then for quick things, I'll just use that to get an environment having whatever packages I want
2021-11-24 21:21:51 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.114.216) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-11-24 21:22:46 +0100 <Cale> Note that you can choose which version of GHC it defaults to. I just have it set to what we use at work right now, but occasionally I'll adjust that e.g. to help someone with a problem they're having on a different ghc
2021-11-24 21:26:04 +0100Flow(~none@gentoo/developer/flow)
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2021-11-24 21:27:36 +0100 <Sqaure> Cale, so imagine you use ghcWithPackages as your shebang? How do you write the actual script code?
2021-11-24 21:27:55 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5337:5300:9054:dfe3:6e71:3a05) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-24 21:28:46 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5337:5300:b447:8c77:1877:d5ca)
2021-11-24 21:29:18 +0100 <Cale> Sqaure: I never use this as a shebang, but it puts you in a bash shell
2021-11-24 21:29:38 +0100 <Cale> in which you have the appropriate GHC to run Haskell scripts
2021-11-24 21:30:51 +0100 <Sqaure> So then you just do Main.hs and run it from that the shell? cabal new-run ... ?
2021-11-24 21:31:00 +0100 <Sqaure> -the*
2021-11-24 21:31:03 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 21:31:31 +0100 <Cale> Just ghc/ghci whatever or runghc I suppose (though I don't really use that much)
2021-11-24 21:32:05 +0100Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-11-24 21:32:15 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst)
2021-11-24 21:32:16 +0100 <Cale> Whatever packages you specified will already be installed, so cabal is somewhat unnecessary, but you can use it also if you like.
2021-11-24 21:32:32 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-181-60-139.range86-181.btcentralplus.com)
2021-11-24 21:33:15 +0100 <Sqaure> Ive got little experience working with ghc alone
2021-11-24 21:33:49 +0100 <Sqaure> i guess i need to learn
2021-11-24 21:33:58 +0100 <dsal> I think I wrote a stack script once, but it didn't end up making any sense in the long term.
2021-11-24 21:34:57 +0100 <Sqaure> seems to work great
2021-11-24 21:36:12 +0100 <Sqaure> whenever i do small ad-hoc / data-mangling jobs i do some sloppy bash and then realize id be better of with haskell. And that happens quite often
2021-11-24 21:36:43 +0100wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-24 21:37:26 +0100 <EvanR> the import list is often 5 times the size of your script xD
2021-11-24 21:37:36 +0100 <dsal> And then you need to make sure those libraries are available.
2021-11-24 21:37:48 +0100 <dsal> And somewhat stable the next time you run your script.
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2021-11-24 21:52:51 +0100_xft0(~jaroslawj@185.234.208.208.r.toneticgroup.pl)
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2021-11-24 21:54:46 +0100 <sm> Sqaure: i use stack scripts a lot
2021-11-24 21:54:49 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-11-24 21:56:07 +0100 <sm> I have found they aren't always justified though, and I am using bash more than ever
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2021-11-24 22:03:18 +0100Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun)
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2021-11-24 22:05:08 +0100 <janus> sm: what your opinion on the oil shell?
2021-11-24 22:06:02 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e1745429fe452954a90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-24 22:06:18 +0100 <sm> i have not tried it yet,
2021-11-24 22:06:18 +0100 <sm> but I'm a big fan of the writing and work
2021-11-24 22:06:27 +0100 <sm> how about you ?
2021-11-24 22:07:36 +0100 <janus> havn't tried it, trying to find someone with an opinion on it :P
2021-11-24 22:07:58 +0100 <sm> its good , you should try it :)
2021-11-24 22:08:11 +0100 <dsal> I've heard of Shell Oil, but not oil shell.
2021-11-24 22:08:54 +0100 <sm> but are we talking about the project generally, or the bash-replacing osh language, or the more forward-looking oil language ?
2021-11-24 22:10:15 +0100hskpractice(~hskpracti@94-255-217-215.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-24 22:10:22 +0100 <janus> i guess all of it, since you'll need all of it to replace bash?
2021-11-24 22:10:30 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-11-24 22:11:08 +0100 <sm> no, the osh language is enough
2021-11-24 22:11:36 +0100drdo(~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 22:11:44 +0100 <hololeap> I'm getting this when I try to run `./setup copy` for the integer-gmp package:
2021-11-24 22:11:49 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e17949910e638228d35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-24 22:11:49 +0100 <hololeap> setup: can't find include file ghc-gmp.h
2021-11-24 22:11:56 +0100 <sm> I saw recently there's a serious discussion in nix of switching to osh
2021-11-24 22:12:10 +0100 <hololeap> it's referenced in integer-gmp.buildinfo.in ; what kind of file is this?
2021-11-24 22:12:42 +0100 <geekosaur> .in file is input to autoconf
2021-11-24 22:13:13 +0100 <geekosaur> which will generate integer-gmp.buildinfo which is used by Cabal build infrastructure
2021-11-24 22:13:34 +0100 <hololeap> oh ok
2021-11-24 22:13:35 +0100 <geekosaur> (and is normally generated by Setup.hs configure)
2021-11-24 22:15:22 +0100 <hololeap> I never learned how to use autoconf, but this should be an easy fix. thanks
2021-11-24 22:15:38 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e1745429fe452954a90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-24 22:17:48 +0100 <maerwald> autoconf is a beauty of constantly changing macros
2021-11-24 22:18:20 +0100 <geekosaur> actually I'm wondering if it's being used by setup configure instead of autoconf
2021-11-24 22:18:41 +0100 <geekosaur> or cabal run-as-setup configure
2021-11-24 22:18:51 +0100 <maerwald> The only people who learn autoconf usually satisfy all of these constraints: 1. you love pain, 2. you love pain, 3. you're a student and have too much time, 4. you love obscure bash, 5. you enjoy complexity
2021-11-24 22:19:06 +0100 <unit73e> I was here thinking, is haskell jersey or mit style? as in "worse is better" or "the right thing". It's kind of both imo.
2021-11-24 22:19:34 +0100 <unit73e> certainly simple enough but tries to be correct
2021-11-24 22:19:42 +0100 <hololeap> maerwald: sounds fun
2021-11-24 22:19:58 +0100 <hololeap> I knew I avoided it for a reason
2021-11-24 22:20:12 +0100 <sm> I'd say more the right thing style at the core, for sure
2021-11-24 22:20:33 +0100 <unit73e> btw maven is a million times better than autoconf and maven is kind of crappy
2021-11-24 22:20:38 +0100 <maerwald> hololeap: you've watched one of those "slap contest" things on youtube? autoconf is like that
2021-11-24 22:20:48 +0100 <sm> devolving to worse is better at the edges ?
2021-11-24 22:21:37 +0100 <unit73e> if you compare to scala it's a lot more unnecessarily complex, for example
2021-11-24 22:21:39 +0100 <sm> ps can you link that paper/article for us
2021-11-24 22:22:19 +0100 <unit73e> even in scala channel they agree lol
2021-11-24 22:26:16 +0100 <maerwald> compare anything to scala and you come to the conclusion: ok, that was unnecessarily complex
2021-11-24 22:26:33 +0100 <sm> for anyone wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better, well worth reading the original articles linked there
2021-11-24 22:28:05 +0100 <int-e> oh the perils of multi-objective optimization
2021-11-24 22:29:31 +0100Moyst_(~moyst@user/moyst) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-11-24 22:30:18 +0100 <unit73e> scala is for java devs is what C++ was to C guys. I still find C++ unnecessarely complex, but I don't think neither scala or C++ are bad. It's like that because legacy support.
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2021-11-24 22:40:48 +0100 <Sqaure> i found scala before haskell and did some years of that. Once i got to know haskell my scala interest disappeared completely. Around 2013/2014 scala had so many weird quirks. Haskell felt more consistent, simpler and clear. Once i got over the lazy eval / monadic IO part.
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2021-11-24 22:42:33 +0100 <janus> Sqaure: i read it has gotten a lot better with scala 3 though
2021-11-24 22:43:52 +0100 <Sqaure> glad to hear. JVM needs that.
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2021-11-24 23:01:02 +0100 <RobotMicrowave> Wow, a lot of hackers here, many l33t speak users.
2021-11-24 23:01:19 +0100 <Cajun> scala has always seemed weird to me, i still dont entirely get the point of mixed functional langauges
2021-11-24 23:01:26 +0100 <Cajun> like F# or Scala
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2021-11-24 23:04:13 +0100 <zero> some people don't get the point of purely functional programming languages too so...
2021-11-24 23:04:44 +0100 <zero> i guesss it's good we have a choice
2021-11-24 23:07:36 +0100 <EvanR> haven't used F#, but I can imagine hoping something haskell-like would invade my horrible day to day language
2021-11-24 23:08:19 +0100 <EvanR> sometimes it would be nice if an imperative DSL could invade haskell, without making a mess that is
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2021-11-24 23:15:02 +0100 <arahael> Cajun: i find that mixed languages get this weird situation where you have OOP design mixed in with a functional design. especially when using code smells that are very much OOP in nature (eg, "everything has an interface")
2021-11-24 23:15:25 +0100 <arahael> Cajun: and devs keep trying to apply OOP good practices such as data hiding.
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2021-11-24 23:23:36 +0100 <RobotMicrowave> Rust is a good example of "lets glue all of this together but with a little of OO"
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2021-11-24 23:25:37 +0100 <Cajun> i dont like the names of things in rust just from hearing about it (like crates or whatever it is)
2021-11-24 23:25:52 +0100 <Cajun> but the language seems very cool
2021-11-24 23:28:30 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, what do 'cargo' and 'crate' have to do with rust? It's not even a related pun.
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2021-11-24 23:28:59 +0100 <dolio> That's the true tragedy of epigram never coming to fruition.
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2021-11-24 23:55:48 +0100 <jackdk> What is this "epigram"? I can only find oblique references to it in the lens haddocks
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