IRCBrowse

2021/11/18

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2021-11-18 00:52:07 +0100 <Cajun> what happened to the html view on hackage? it looks so weird now, is there any way to get the old view back?
2021-11-18 00:53:03 +0100 <yushyin> looks the same to me as always oO
2021-11-18 00:53:18 +0100 <hpc> you mean being all purple and such?
2021-11-18 00:53:22 +0100 <hpc> it's been like that for years now
2021-11-18 00:54:09 +0100 <geekosaur> the v1 view stuck around for a while, may be gone now
2021-11-18 00:54:33 +0100 <geekosaur> no, v1's still there
2021-11-18 00:54:58 +0100 <Cajun> oh i think it may be older not newer. i wound up on `Hedi` on hackage and it looked.. different
2021-11-18 00:55:09 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure which one is more obnoxious now… the package view doesn't scale well
2021-11-18 00:55:09 +0100 <Cajun> if thats what v1 is then that would make sense
2021-11-18 00:55:47 +0100 <Cajun> the new one scales so much better for bigger monitors
2021-11-18 00:55:55 +0100 <monochrom> You will soon discover that generated htmls in the past are preserved, not regenerated to the new look.
2021-11-18 00:56:02 +0100 <geekosaur> no, I was talking about /packages vs. /packages/browse
2021-11-18 00:56:20 +0100 <Axman6> ah, so much nostalgia
2021-11-18 00:56:30 +0100 <geekosaur> the latter is more usable but takes for-freaking-ever to load
2021-11-18 00:56:40 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 00:56:47 +0100 <monochrom> But yeah I don't understand the millenial obsession with big fonts, big boxes, big everything.
2021-11-18 00:57:31 +0100 <monochrom> I mean the low-density sense.
2021-11-18 00:57:32 +0100 <hpc> it's because they were born yesterday, but have old people eyes :P
2021-11-18 00:57:55 +0100 <hpc> also phones
2021-11-18 00:58:02 +0100 <geekosaur> from looking at facebook on their phones all the time? :þ
2021-11-18 00:58:15 +0100 <hpc> the always-visible table of contents is nice though
2021-11-18 00:58:19 +0100 <Axman6> r/boomerhumour is leaking
2021-11-18 00:58:42 +0100alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 00:59:07 +0100 <Cajun> if /packages/browse loaded faster it would be a great experience but its just borderline unusable
2021-11-18 00:59:18 +0100 <geekosaur> ^
2021-11-18 00:59:45 +0100 <geekosaur> it'd be nice if it paged, maybe 100 packages per page, instead of loading the whole list up front
2021-11-18 00:59:51 +0100 <Axman6> isn't that just the same as the package search, but without the search? it sucks that it appears to load the metadata of every package to show the first 50...
2021-11-18 01:00:16 +0100 <monochrom> Someone used Strict Data blindly.
2021-11-18 01:00:18 +0100 <Axman6> I understand doing that on the search page, moves search into the browser and makes life easier for the server
2021-11-18 01:00:35 +0100 <Axman6> needs more iteratees
2021-11-18 01:01:06 +0100 <monochrom> I just use "search". Hackage has grown too big for "list all packages" anyway.
2021-11-18 01:01:18 +0100 <Axman6> agreed
2021-11-18 01:01:27 +0100 <Axman6> !hackage foo in DDG
2021-11-18 01:01:27 +0100 <Cajun> googling for packages tends to be faster for me lol
2021-11-18 01:01:40 +0100 <hpc> Axman6: ooh yes, and !hoogle
2021-11-18 01:01:59 +0100 <hpc> or !h for short
2021-11-18 01:02:06 +0100 <hpc> we get one of the coveted single-letter patterns
2021-11-18 01:02:34 +0100 <Axman6> yah
2021-11-18 01:02:47 +0100Guest|46(~Guest|46@097-090-115-014.res.spectrum.com)
2021-11-18 01:02:58 +0100 <Axman6> I should remember that one... but I can never remember which things !h actually redirects to =)
2021-11-18 01:05:05 +0100 <geekosaur> most of the time I use a locally brewed one that is more or less the same as @hackage in lambdabot :)
2021-11-18 01:05:35 +0100alzgh(alzgh@user/alzgh)
2021-11-18 01:07:02 +0100 <Axman6> hackage() { echo "https://hackage.haskell.org/package/$1" }
2021-11-18 01:07:29 +0100 <geekosaur> yep
2021-11-18 01:07:53 +0100 <Axman6> @hackage ../../../../../../../../etc/passwd
2021-11-18 01:07:53 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/../../../../../../../../etc/passwd
2021-11-18 01:07:58 +0100 <hpc> you can bookmark "https://hackage.haskell.org/package/%s in firefox too
2021-11-18 01:08:00 +0100 <geekosaur> if I need more than that I feed it to browser search
2021-11-18 01:08:13 +0100 <hpc> minus the quote
2021-11-18 01:08:33 +0100 <hpc> give it a keyword, then "keyword base" in the url bar takes you straight there
2021-11-18 01:09:23 +0100She(~she@user/thedaemoness) (Quit: Rebooting.)
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2021-11-18 01:10:20 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-11-18 01:11:25 +0100 <sclv> PRs welcome to improve the /browse interface on hackage, please!
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2021-11-18 01:32:06 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-11-18 01:36:31 +0100 <Guest|46> Hello, I am attempting to install the haskell tool chain via powershell using the command @ https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/. The command runs and I give it permissions. It starts downloading MSys2 and after a minute stops. This error message is displayed.
2021-11-18 01:36:46 +0100 <Guest|46> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/1db5e2821ebdeed4ae1b365be565757c/pasted.txt
2021-11-18 01:43:56 +0100DNH(~DNH@2a02:8109:b740:2c4:5132:6531:a874:2df6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 01:46:50 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:02:23 +0100 <geekosaur> mm. maerwald?
2021-11-18 02:02:42 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:09:03 +0100 <geekosaur> guess you'll have to stick around a bit until he gets back
2021-11-18 02:09:15 +0100 <geekosaur> hoping he hasn't gone to bed or something
2021-11-18 02:10:32 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:99ae:703b:b7dc:fe53) (Quit: gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-11-18 02:11:26 +0100 <Guest|46> No worries, thanks for helping how you can.
2021-11-18 02:13:31 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:16:00 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:16:13 +0100 <janus> but maerwald seems to be on european hours and it is the middle of the night there
2021-11-18 02:16:53 +0100 <sm> Guest|46: you could try running that curl command showing in the error output to see what's up
2021-11-18 02:19:17 +0100spoofer(~spoofer@64.185.111.205)
2021-11-18 02:20:32 +0100 <Guest|46> I should have included that part of the console output. "Curl 18" was the message. My knowledge of this stuff is limited, my apologies.
2021-11-18 02:21:20 +0100 <Guest|46> By that do you mean to run the command "curl 18"
2021-11-18 02:21:33 +0100 <Guest|46> I am running windows 10 btw
2021-11-18 02:21:45 +0100 <Guest|46> I have only ever used curl on Linux
2021-11-18 02:22:12 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-18 02:22:20 +0100 <janus> Guest|46: try 'curl -o C:\Users\JOHNCO~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msys2-x86_64-latest.sfx.exe https://repo.msys2.org/distrib/msys2-x86_64-latest.sfx.exe' from the directory where curl resides
2021-11-18 02:24:02 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 02:24:04 +0100 <Guest|46> Would that just continue the download where it left off? From looking on google it seems like the network connection was just interrupted.
2021-11-18 02:25:06 +0100 <janus> Guest|46: no, i don't think curl would continue unless it is passed the -C flag
2021-11-18 02:26:25 +0100 <janus> but i guess you could try that? i don't know if what makes the ghcup installer attempt to redownload, and i don't know whether it can even detect that the file already is downloaded
2021-11-18 02:26:57 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:27:04 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:27:29 +0100 <janus> but it would make sense if ghcup could detect an existing msys installation, so maybe it would make sense to attempt to install it
2021-11-18 02:27:49 +0100 <sm> maybe it was an intermittent failure and it works if you retry ?
2021-11-18 02:28:05 +0100moet(~moet@mobile-166-171-251-63.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 02:28:11 +0100stef204(~stef204@user/stef204)
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2021-11-18 02:28:17 +0100 <Guest|46> In that event it would seem safer to just use the same command provided on the web page and let the installer handle it.
2021-11-18 02:29:27 +0100 <Guest|46> Oh yeah, it happened twice on the same line. Forgot to mention
2021-11-18 02:29:51 +0100 <Guest|46> So the installer did not handle it.
2021-11-18 02:31:03 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
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2021-11-18 02:32:50 +0100 <Guest|46> I'm just going to start a new instance of windows and try again. Thank you for all of your help. I will be back if the problem persists.
2021-11-18 02:32:57 +0100waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
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2021-11-18 03:42:15 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> I am in need of some help. I used the command on the ghcup page to install the haskell toolchain. It seemed like it worked, but when i run a command to test it gives me this error. PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> ghc
2021-11-18 03:42:16 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> Loaded package environment from C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\ghc\x86_64-mingw32-9.2.1\environments\default
2021-11-18 03:42:16 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> ghc-9.2.1.exe: can't find a package database at C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\cabal\store\ghc-9.2.1\package.db
2021-11-18 03:42:16 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> gcup list
2021-11-18 03:42:18 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> gcup : The term 'gcup' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, script file, or operable program. Check
2021-11-18 03:42:21 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> the spelling of the name, or if a path was included, verify that the path is correct and try again.
2021-11-18 03:42:23 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> At line:1 char:1
2021-11-18 03:42:25 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> + gcup list
2021-11-18 03:42:27 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> + ~~~~
2021-11-18 03:42:29 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> + CategoryInfo : ObjectNotFound: (gcup:String) [], CommandNotFoundException
2021-11-18 03:42:31 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> + FullyQualifiedErrorId : CommandNotFoundException
2021-11-18 03:42:33 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> ghci
2021-11-18 03:42:35 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> Loaded package environment from C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\ghc\x86_64-mingw32-9.2.1\environments\default
2021-11-18 03:42:38 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> GHCi, version 9.2.1: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help
2021-11-18 03:42:40 +0100 <longporkpisspawg> ghc-9.2.1.exe: can't find a package database at C:\Users\Jake\AppData\Roaming\cabal\store\ghc-9.2.1\package.db
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2021-11-18 03:58:20 +0100 <Cajun> please use https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ to paste code errors rather than straight into IRC
2021-11-18 03:58:52 +0100 <Cajun> also, you typed `gcup` when it should be `ghcup`
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2021-11-18 04:43:13 +0100 <Axman6> @hoogle f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
2021-11-18 04:43:14 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Lens (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
2021-11-18 04:43:14 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Operators (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
2021-11-18 04:43:14 +0100 <lambdabot> Diagrams.Prelude (??) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
2021-11-18 04:43:25 +0100 <Axman6> @more
2021-11-18 04:43:29 +0100 <Axman6> :(
2021-11-18 04:45:53 +0100 <dsal> Oh weird. I didn't see that first f and was very confused for a moment.
2021-11-18 04:46:35 +0100 <awpr> :t distribute @((->) Int)
2021-11-18 04:46:36 +0100 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘->’
2021-11-18 04:49:29 +0100 <awpr> just needs TypeApplications, but it does seem to do the same thing: `Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b`
2021-11-18 04:49:46 +0100 <dsal> @hoogle distribute
2021-11-18 04:49:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Pipes.Lift distribute :: (Monad m, MonadTrans t, MFunctor t, Monad (t m), Monad (t (Proxy a' a b' b m))) => Proxy a' a b' b (t m) r -> t (Proxy a' a b' b m) r
2021-11-18 04:49:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Distributive distribute :: (Distributive g, Functor f) => f (g a) -> g (f a)
2021-11-18 04:49:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Streaming distribute :: (Monad m, Functor f, MonadTrans t, MFunctor t, Monad (t (Stream f m))) => Stream f (t m) r -> t (Stream f m) r
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2021-11-18 04:57:02 +0100td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-143.citykom.de)
2021-11-18 04:59:45 +0100hiruji(~hiruji@user/hiruji)
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2021-11-18 05:07:49 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle kerberos
2021-11-18 05:07:49 +0100 <lambdabot> Network.AWS.EMR kerberosAttributes :: Text -> Text -> KerberosAttributes
2021-11-18 05:07:49 +0100 <lambdabot> Network.AWS.EMR.Types kerberosAttributes :: Text -> Text -> KerberosAttributes
2021-11-18 05:07:49 +0100 <lambdabot> Network.AWS.EMR data KerberosAttributes
2021-11-18 05:08:03 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle security
2021-11-18 05:08:03 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Swagger.Lens security :: HasSecurity s a => Lens' s a
2021-11-18 05:08:03 +0100 <lambdabot> Network.FTP.Client security :: Handle -> Security
2021-11-18 05:08:03 +0100 <lambdabot> module System.Win32.Security
2021-11-18 05:08:17 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle ntpd
2021-11-18 05:08:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Conduit.Shell ntpd :: ProcessType r => r
2021-11-18 05:08:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Conduit.Shell.PATH ntpd :: ProcessType r => r
2021-11-18 05:08:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Conduit.Shell ntpdate :: ProcessType r => r
2021-11-18 05:09:11 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle segfault
2021-11-18 05:09:11 +0100 <lambdabot> No results found
2021-11-18 05:09:25 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle unsafeCoerce#
2021-11-18 05:09:25 +0100 <lambdabot> GHC.Exts unsafeCoerce# :: forall (k0 :: RuntimeRep) (k1 :: RuntimeRep) (a :: TYPE k0) (b :: TYPE k1) . a -> b
2021-11-18 05:09:25 +0100 <lambdabot> GHC.Prim unsafeCoerce# :: a -> b
2021-11-18 05:09:35 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> @hoogle unsafe
2021-11-18 05:09:35 +0100 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Lib unsafe :: Safety
2021-11-18 05:09:35 +0100 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Lib.Internal unsafe :: Safety
2021-11-18 05:09:35 +0100 <lambdabot> package unsafe
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2021-11-18 08:12:21 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-11-18 09:43:07 +0100 <ProfSimm> I wonder if functional languages are seen as the most fundamental form of computation. There are two things it lacks, i think to make the functional paradigm fundamental. That is energy conservation, and time as a core primitive.
2021-11-18 09:43:32 +0100 <ProfSimm> Functional languages are rather explicitly "symbolic", this makes them much easier to work with.
2021-11-18 09:43:39 +0100 <ProfSimm> But not when you model reality i think
2021-11-18 09:44:20 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 09:44:40 +0100 <Hecate> what
2021-11-18 09:44:58 +0100 <Hecate> ProfSimm: depends what is your most fundamental computation support
2021-11-18 09:45:07 +0100 <ProfSimm> Oh just contemplating computation in the universe I guess, Hecate
2021-11-18 09:45:07 +0100 <Hecate> on Von Neumann computers, they're definitely not
2021-11-18 09:45:26 +0100 <Hecate> yeah but does the universe run on a CPU or on a sheet of paper
2021-11-18 09:45:34 +0100 <Hecate> also, were maths discovered or invented? ;)
2021-11-18 09:45:47 +0100 <ProfSimm> Hecate computers are an interesting bunch. They're based on a binary system, where one symbol means "a thing" and the other means "not a thing". So they're also explicitly symbolic, as they encoding nothing as a thing.
2021-11-18 09:46:04 +0100 <ProfSimm> Ironically there's no such dichotomy in the hardware. There's charge or no charge
2021-11-18 09:46:12 +0100 <ProfSimm> There's no such thing as the "no charge" charge
2021-11-18 09:46:49 +0100 <Hecate> hehe
2021-11-18 09:46:50 +0100 <Hecate> yeah
2021-11-18 09:46:56 +0100 <ProfSimm> Hecate, if we dig into it the words invented/discoverd blur together is the issue
2021-11-18 09:47:13 +0100 <ProfSimm> It's a good question but if we want to be precise, we realize the question is imprecise.
2021-11-18 09:47:25 +0100 <ProfSimm> Math is a set of symbols that express real relationships.
2021-11-18 09:47:31 +0100 <Hecate> Yeah, it's like "Oh, I've "discovered" this land where other people already live!"
2021-11-18 09:47:32 +0100 <ProfSimm> But the symbols are probably arbitrary
2021-11-18 09:47:36 +0100 <Hecate> yup'
2021-11-18 09:47:39 +0100 <kritzefitz> Usually there is a non-zero tolerance charge up to which the charge is still interpreted as no charge. So arguably there is a no-charge charge.
2021-11-18 09:47:42 +0100 <ProfSimm> Much like our arbitrary decision to use decimal vs some other system
2021-11-18 09:47:59 +0100 <Hecate> ProfSimm: base20 was huge in France for a while
2021-11-18 09:48:04 +0100meinside(uid24933@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 09:48:21 +0100 <ProfSimm> Hecate, there's this theory that if something can exist mathematically, then it already exists and you just discovered it
2021-11-18 09:48:26 +0100 <Hecate> we have a hospital in Paris called "The Fifteen Twenties Hospital", because there were 300 beds (15*20)
2021-11-18 09:48:37 +0100 <ProfSimm> So the moment you invent something, you no longer invented it. You discovered it :P
2021-11-18 09:48:51 +0100 <ProfSimm> We could say "general relativity" applies to discoveries.
2021-11-18 09:49:00 +0100 <ProfSimm> Local inventions are non-local discoveries
2021-11-18 09:49:00 +0100 <ProfSimm> :P
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2021-11-18 09:49:49 +0100 <ProfSimm> kristjansson_, there's a threshold yes, but that's more to filter out noise
2021-11-18 09:50:12 +0100 <ProfSimm> kristjansson_, if we think in terms of reliably detectable charge, it's still charge or no charge
2021-11-18 09:50:37 +0100 <ProfSimm> It would be neat if CPUs offered machine code that matches their implementation
2021-11-18 09:50:46 +0100 <ProfSimm> I.e. only 1 and period between 1s
2021-11-18 09:50:48 +0100 <ProfSimm> No 0s
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2021-11-18 09:51:57 +0100 <ProfSimm> Imagine if functional languages had energy conservation
2021-11-18 09:52:11 +0100 <ProfSimm> So you call a function and you need to pass not only data, but the energy to run the computation with
2021-11-18 09:52:18 +0100 <ProfSimm> And if you supply too little, you get partial answer
2021-11-18 09:52:24 +0100 <ProfSimm> If you supply too much, the function blows up
2021-11-18 09:52:32 +0100 <ProfSimm> So you need to Goldilock every call
2021-11-18 09:52:48 +0100acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7271e867dc2e46d4523ad74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-18 09:53:15 +0100 <ProfSimm> We'd probably curry functions with estimators
2021-11-18 09:53:43 +0100 <ProfSimm> "Hey f(x), can you tell me how much energy you need to compute x" "I need 100 energy" "OK here"
2021-11-18 09:54:09 +0100 <ProfSimm> On the plus side you'd never have endless loops
2021-11-18 09:54:17 +0100 <ProfSimm> Because every loop will run out of energy at some point
2021-11-18 09:55:21 +0100 <ProfSimm> Imagine if you could do heatmap on your program, but not by function call count, or time it took to compute, but energy balances in every function
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2021-11-18 09:57:30 +0100 <ProfSimm> You'd be able to literally compute your power bill from the programs you run
2021-11-18 09:57:57 +0100 <ProfSimm> Cloud computing would love that
2021-11-18 09:59:07 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166)
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2021-11-18 10:02:41 +0100 <kritzefitz> I imagine that would be a nightmare for portability if your program would have to behave differently on machines with different patterns of energy consumption.
2021-11-18 10:02:42 +0100 <ProfSimm> You know in philosophy, the "monad" is the one that all comes from
2021-11-18 10:02:52 +0100 <ProfSimm> It's like the charge that powers the universe.
2021-11-18 10:03:10 +0100 <ProfSimm> This is why particles seem stable with no energy source. They have it, but we don't know about it yet
2021-11-18 10:03:42 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, probably, but it'd probably cause standards to emerge.
2021-11-18 10:03:46 +0100jmorris(uid433911@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 10:03:55 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, for example the CPU tells you how much energy it takes
2021-11-18 10:04:02 +0100jle`(~jle`@2603-8001-3b02-84d4-0000-0000-0000-025d.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-11-18 10:04:09 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, and you have buffers to account for platform differences
2021-11-18 10:04:36 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, kinda like money. You go to a different market, prices are a bit different, but you can buy the same things
2021-11-18 10:04:44 +0100 <kritzefitz> Yeah, right. The whole thing seems like something you would want to abstract over, so you never have to think about it again. Which sounds to me like we would be back to where we are now, just that we had additional intermediate steps.
2021-11-18 10:05:02 +0100betelgeuse(~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be)
2021-11-18 10:05:04 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, you're quite right.
2021-11-18 10:05:25 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, proof is the universe abstracted over it itself, so we have particles that appear stable with no energy input
2021-11-18 10:05:48 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, but it's probably still the underlying fundamental reality
2021-11-18 10:06:19 +0100 <ProfSimm> kritzefitz, I doubt down under you can just copy things forever for free, for example
2021-11-18 10:06:37 +0100 <ProfSimm> Or alternatively we can imagine symbols exist once. And everyone links to them. But then those "links" should be free
2021-11-18 10:06:41 +0100 <ProfSimm> Which is again implausible
2021-11-18 10:07:31 +0100 <ProfSimm> It's unclear actually
2021-11-18 10:07:52 +0100 <ProfSimm> Maybe down under it's symbolic, and energy economy emerges because it produces selection pressure which produces interesting things
2021-11-18 10:08:25 +0100 <ProfSimm> But if down under it was all symbolic, then under pressure you'd find a loophole, and link yourself to the symbols for infinite energy
2021-11-18 10:08:30 +0100 <ProfSimm> Basically you'll cheat the game
2021-11-18 10:08:45 +0100 <ProfSimm> This is a bit like humans trying to find free energy
2021-11-18 10:08:50 +0100 <ProfSimm> If it's there, we'll find it eventually
2021-11-18 10:08:54 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95716ce002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-18 10:09:06 +0100 <ProfSimm> And then the whole system collapses
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2021-11-18 11:49:30 +0100 <maerwald> right, free energy...
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2021-11-18 12:21:42 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Module GHC.TypeLits allows to lift/unlift to/from type/value level standard things like Char, String and Natural. I do wonder why only these things? Why it does not provide some generic utilities to lift/unlift whatever? Is it some GHC limitation, or just how type families are implemented in Haskell right now? Sorry if question is dumb or obvious, I'm pretty new in type familiy subject :)
2021-11-18 12:22:49 +0100mcgroin(~mcgroin@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-11-18 12:23:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> timCF: have you heard of the DataKinds extension?
2021-11-18 12:24:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/data_kinds.html#overview
2021-11-18 12:24:49 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: yeah, using it a lot to have phantom type parameters which are not types themselves
2021-11-18 12:25:49 +0100 <tomsmeding> in that case, not sure what you're asking :)
2021-11-18 12:26:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh, why there is no KnownThing that works for any type?
2021-11-18 12:26:34 +0100 <tomsmeding> if so, that's probably not expressible because of language limitations
2021-11-18 12:27:17 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: Yeah, I'm using this extension in something like `newtype Money (owner :: MarketRole) = Money Rational; data MarketRole = Maker | Taker` which is nothing to do with type families I guess
2021-11-18 12:28:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> right
2021-11-18 12:29:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> example of what one could do, not sure if that helps: type family Not (b :: Bool) where Not 'True = 'False ; Not 'False = 'True
2021-11-18 12:29:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> the stuff in GHC.TypeLits is mostly special-cased in the compiler, I believe, for performance reasons
2021-11-18 12:32:20 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: so 'Bool, KnownBool and boolVal is not included into GHC.TypeLits because it can be done somewhere outside of "base"?
2021-11-18 12:32:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> yeah
2021-11-18 12:34:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> in fact, KnownNat and KnownSymbol could also be done outside of base to an extent, but them being in base (and in fact built into the compiler to an extent) allows special syntax: you can write 1 as a type and you'll get a type of kind Natural. You wouldn't be able to get this special syntax without the special implementation.
2021-11-18 12:35:48 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166)
2021-11-18 12:36:42 +0100 <kritzefitz> timCF: I think you might be interested in singletons. I think it might do what you want, but never really used it myself.
2021-11-18 12:36:47 +0100 <kritzefitz> @hackage singletons
2021-11-18 12:36:47 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singletons
2021-11-18 12:37:39 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: make sense! My first guess was that Natural, Char and String were some special case, but Bool is just normal sum-type which is not different from user-defined types
2021-11-18 12:38:11 +0100 <timCF> kritzefitz: thanks!
2021-11-18 12:40:03 +0100 <ProfSimm> I think I discovered a new type of exceptions. They don't bubble up the stack directly, first they bubble "back" to the branches the expression took, in attempt to take a better branch and avoid the exception.
2021-11-18 12:40:14 +0100 <ProfSimm> Anyone seen that in a language?
2021-11-18 12:41:40 +0100 <[exa]> is this prolog?
2021-11-18 12:41:53 +0100 <timCF> ProfSimm: I think some sort of `catch` or `catches` wrapped composition is the thing you want?
2021-11-18 12:41:55 +0100 <[exa]> (in haskell, check out LogicT)
2021-11-18 12:42:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> timCF: type Length :: [k] -> Nat ; type family Length ts where Length '[] = 0 ; Length (t ': ts) = 1 + Length ts
2021-11-18 12:43:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> types don't need to be finite in order to do stuff with them
2021-11-18 12:44:47 +0100 <ProfSimm> I think what i want is two things
2021-11-18 12:44:51 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: which extension do I need to write `type Length :: [k] -> Nat` like in your example?
2021-11-18 12:45:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> StandaloneKindSignatures
2021-11-18 12:45:07 +0100 <timCF> Or it's just normal type alias?
2021-11-18 12:45:14 +0100 <ProfSimm> 1. Dont' separate try/catch from other branches like "if". Instead every branch is an implicit "trycatch"
2021-11-18 12:45:24 +0100 <boxscape_> (ghc should actually tell you here which extensions you need to enable if you try it)
2021-11-18 12:45:26 +0100 <ProfSimm> 2. Be able to make a different decision in that branch and take another branch
2021-11-18 12:45:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> yeah prolog
2021-11-18 12:45:51 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: cool, thanks! I've have seen this syntax a lot in examples, but was not able to make it work :)
2021-11-18 12:46:04 +0100 <ProfSimm> tomsmeding, I see why Prolog was used for AI and so on.
2021-11-18 12:46:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> it's redundant here because the kind can be inferred
2021-11-18 12:46:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> timCF: but instructive here, I thought
2021-11-18 12:46:19 +0100 <ProfSimm> tomsmeding what kind
2021-11-18 12:46:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> ProfSimm: that was for timCF :)
2021-11-18 12:46:30 +0100 <ProfSimm> oh ok
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2021-11-18 13:22:37 +0100 <statusfailed> Is there a reason why Data.Semigroup.Sum doesn't have a Fractional instance?
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2021-11-18 14:19:27 +0100 <dknite> Hi! Wrt to the code at https://paste.tomsmeding.com/oPCg9FiQ, is there a cleaner way to handle the CondJump and UncondJump cases, without having to manually match over the Maybe Int returned by getTarget?
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2021-11-18 14:21:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> dknite: write 'parseCond idx targ = CondJump idx targ', and write 'fmap (parseCond idx)' ?
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2021-11-18 14:28:28 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Any persistent/esqueleto users there? I'm looking for a canonical way to declare generic database models with type/kind parameters, i.e. `data User (a :: Foo) b = ...` instead of plain `data User = ...` which is generated by TH by default (mkPersist and other similar).
2021-11-18 14:29:26 +0100 <dknite> Thanks tomdmeding! Building on your suggestion, I think we can also write `fmap (CondJump idx) (getTarget str)`.
2021-11-18 14:30:54 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@45.131.37.7)
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2021-11-18 14:54:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> dknite: indeed :)
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2021-11-18 16:12:03 +0100 <Sqaure> I want to describe the difference between Semigroup and Monoid to non Haskellers. What is the most frequently used type (for non programmers) that is a Semigroup but not a Monoid?
2021-11-18 16:12:04 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-11-18 16:12:40 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53b1:4500:9864:c2dd:c571:8a)
2021-11-18 16:12:49 +0100 <lortabac> Sqaure: NonEmpty
2021-11-18 16:13:02 +0100 <lortabac> oh, for non programmers
2021-11-18 16:13:04 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-11-18 16:13:04 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-11-18 16:13:05 +0100 <lortabac> I don't know :)
2021-11-18 16:13:29 +0100 <Sqaure> lortabac, oh sorry.. i *meant* for generic programmers
2021-11-18 16:15:15 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@45.131.37.7)
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2021-11-18 16:15:15 +0100neurocyte0132889(~neurocyte@user/neurocyte)
2021-11-18 16:16:02 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Sqaure: you could just refer them to the math defintions on Wikipedia?
2021-11-18 16:16:23 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166)
2021-11-18 16:16:35 +0100shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80)
2021-11-18 16:16:49 +0100 <gehmehgeh> *definitions
2021-11-18 16:16:53 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:8afa:cd85:54a:a2d4) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-11-18 16:16:56 +0100 <Sqaure> gehmehgeh, I was hoping there were an analogy they knew about that would make it feel less alien
2021-11-18 16:17:26 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-18 16:17:27 +0100 <gehmehgeh> hm. why is an analogy needed if the core conecpt is this simple? :)
2021-11-18 16:17:30 +0100 <gehmehgeh> *concept
2021-11-18 16:18:47 +0100 <Sqaure> gehmehgeh, the problem with the audience is that they are probably "not interested". Giving names to stuff they know about could be around that.
2021-11-18 16:18:52 +0100 <geekosaur> I would be tempted to just introduce Monoid first and bring in Semigroup after introducing something like NonEmpty (possibly the latter coming form foldr1 vs. foldr)
2021-11-18 16:19:15 +0100 <Sqaure> be a way around*
2021-11-18 16:19:43 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Sqaure: Wikipedia also lists some nice examples (from maths, obviously)
2021-11-18 16:21:21 +0100erisco(~erisco@d24-57-249-233.home.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-11-18 16:25:02 +0100 <jkaye> I think the issue with pointing people asking questions like that to Wikipedia is that they are often interested in practical applications, but most of what Wikipedia has to offer is very conceptual/theoretical. That doesn't make it bad, but it usually doesn't align with what the individual is looking for
2021-11-18 16:25:42 +0100 <jkaye> Especially when it comes to math. You might have 1-2 paragraphs of high level explanation, and then it drops into a proof. Which may be a good thing to understand (in the long run), but probably will not help someone who is trying to solve a problem in code
2021-11-18 16:26:24 +0100 <gehmehgeh> hm, that's fair
2021-11-18 16:26:48 +0100erisco(~erisco@d24-57-249-233.home.cgocable.net)
2021-11-18 16:26:51 +0100 <gehmehgeh> maybe take Strings as an example for monoids?
2021-11-18 16:27:16 +0100 <gehmehgeh> using <> instead of "++"
2021-11-18 16:27:29 +0100 <gehmehgeh> They use strings, I mean.
2021-11-18 16:28:03 +0100 <gehmehgeh> (the concatenation operator)
2021-11-18 16:28:56 +0100 <jkaye> Yeah, I think there are a few good pedagogical examples for each of the major typeclasses that would help an experienced developer who's looking to get into Haskell from a less-pure/CT background. At least for me personally, [], (, a), and (-> a) were the three that helped me to start to understand when I was getting started years ago
2021-11-18 16:29:20 +0100 <jkaye> But everyone is different, which makes it really hard :)
2021-11-18 16:30:21 +0100juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.82) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 16:31:12 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Sqaure: but don't forget to tell them that Strings in Haskell are linked lists
2021-11-18 16:31:17 +0100 <kuribas> I doubt there are many people getting into haskell from a CT background.
2021-11-18 16:31:50 +0100 <hippoid> I'm starting to use haskell language server with vim, and installed it through https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim. The binary coc.nvim uses is haskell-language-server-wrapper, and not haskell-language-server. What is the point of haskell-language-server-wrapper?
2021-11-18 16:32:22 +0100 <c_wraith> I think the biggest problem with the idea of saying "This is what a monoid is" is that... no one cares.
2021-11-18 16:32:53 +0100 <c_wraith> It's a lot better to say "here is what we can do by abstracting over all Monoid instances"
2021-11-18 16:33:52 +0100 <kritzefitz> hippoid: The "haskell-language-server" binary is compiled to work with exactly one GHC version. "haskell-language-server-wrapper" can detect what version of GHC you're using for a given project and select the correct "haskell-language-server" for the circumstances.
2021-11-18 16:33:54 +0100 <Sqaure> What does CT mean?
2021-11-18 16:34:17 +0100 <c_wraith> category theory
2021-11-18 16:34:22 +0100 <Sqaure> ah
2021-11-18 16:34:48 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 16:34:50 +0100 <hippoid> kritzefitz: ok, that makes sense!
2021-11-18 16:35:24 +0100 <jkaye> kuribas, I tend to agree
2021-11-18 16:35:57 +0100 <Sqaure> c_wraith, do you have some examples of "what we can do abstracting of all Monoid instances"?
2021-11-18 16:36:09 +0100juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.82)
2021-11-18 16:39:11 +0100 <kuribas> I don't see much CT in haskell, besides lens and recursion-schemes.
2021-11-18 16:39:21 +0100 <c_wraith> Sqaure: the finger tree paper had a lot of really interesting ways to use abstracting over monoids - https://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/FingerTree.html
2021-11-18 16:39:23 +0100 <kuribas> And those examples aren't very compelling.
2021-11-18 16:39:42 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-11-18 16:41:23 +0100 <hippoid> when I run haskell-language-server-wrapper in my project root (created through stack), I get a message "no hie.yaml" found, and then errors related to "Could not load module...". Which is odd because I have those modules specified in my cabal file. What am i missing here?
2021-11-18 16:49:54 +0100 <boxscape_> is there a function `IO () -> String` that lets me capture the terminal output of an IO action?
2021-11-18 16:50:05 +0100 <boxscape_> IO () -> IO String I suppose, actually
2021-11-18 16:50:17 +0100 <kuribas> boxscape_: standard output?
2021-11-18 16:50:32 +0100 <boxscape_> if that's a clarifying question, yes
2021-11-18 16:50:37 +0100 <kuribas> or stdout and stderr?
2021-11-18 16:50:45 +0100 <boxscape_> I'd be happy with either one
2021-11-18 16:51:10 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-18 16:51:49 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 16:52:29 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3f3e:828e:8ee5:94d9)
2021-11-18 16:53:12 +0100 <hippoid> hippoid: the answer is somewhere here: https://github.com/haskell/hie-bios
2021-11-18 16:53:41 +0100 <kuribas> boxscape_: can't you read from the stdout handle as a file?
2021-11-18 16:53:55 +0100 <boxscape_> hmm maybe? I'm not sure how to do that
2021-11-18 16:53:57 +0100 <boxscape_> oh just
2021-11-18 16:54:02 +0100 <boxscape_> hReadFile stdout?
2021-11-18 16:54:33 +0100 <kuribas> yeah
2021-11-18 16:54:42 +0100 <boxscape_> I'll try it
2021-11-18 16:54:55 +0100 <kritzefitz> I don't think that works. "stdout" is usually opened write-only.
2021-11-18 16:55:16 +0100 <sm> here are some good ones: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typed-process-0.2.7.0/docs/System-Process-Typed.html#v:readPro…
2021-11-18 16:55:28 +0100 <boxscape_> % hGetContents stdout
2021-11-18 16:55:28 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_: *** Exception: <stdout>: hGetContents: illegal operation (handle is not open for reading)
2021-11-18 16:55:41 +0100 <kuribas> kritzefitz: you need to redirect it first then?
2021-11-18 16:55:53 +0100 <boxscape_> apparently you can do that with hDuplicateTo
2021-11-18 16:57:39 +0100 <boxscape_> can I create a handle I can write to and read from without creating a file?
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2021-11-18 16:58:16 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-11-18 16:58:38 +0100 <kritzefitz> `hDuplicateTo` sounds promising. But I think to use it oyu would either have to create a temporary file or a pipe.
2021-11-18 16:58:46 +0100 <boxscape_> ok
2021-11-18 16:59:43 +0100 <boxscape_> where do I have to look for pipes?
2021-11-18 17:00:17 +0100 <boxscape_> though I guess openTempFile sounds easy enough to use
2021-11-18 17:00:19 +0100monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:00:58 +0100 <kritzefitz> System.Process has createPipe.
2021-11-18 17:01:07 +0100 <boxscape_> ah, thanks
2021-11-18 17:01:48 +0100 <kuribas> maybe there is something easier in turtle.
2021-11-18 17:02:05 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-013.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-18 17:02:23 +0100 <boxscape_> hm, could be
2021-11-18 17:02:41 +0100 <boxscape_> anyway, gotta go, thanks for your help
2021-11-18 17:03:10 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@134.171.69.87) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-11-18 17:04:14 +0100 <geekosaur> missed them. what they're looking for is not easily possible in general
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2021-11-18 17:06:51 +0100juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.82) ()
2021-11-18 17:07:19 +0100cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Quit: BitchX: a new fragrance for men, by Calvin Klein)
2021-11-18 17:07:20 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-18 17:08:39 +0100 <kuribas> geekosaur: how so?
2021-11-18 17:09:23 +0100 <kuribas> because you cannot distinguis which output comes from the action, and which from other places?
2021-11-18 17:10:04 +0100coolnickname(~omg@user/coolnickname) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-11-18 17:10:15 +0100 <c_wraith> because an arbitrary IO action might change stdout arbitrarily
2021-11-18 17:10:33 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:3f3e:828e:8ee5:94d9) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-11-18 17:11:49 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-11-18 17:15:23 +0100dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
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2021-11-18 17:15:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-11-18 17:18:05 +0100 <geekosaur> aqnd because stdout may be buffered inside the RTS
2021-11-18 17:19:17 +0100 <c_wraith> you could work around that, as long as you're not in a concurrent environment, with a couple extra flushes.
2021-11-18 17:19:28 +0100 <c_wraith> but there is also the concurrent environment obstacle
2021-11-18 17:19:38 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh
2021-11-18 17:20:01 +0100 <geekosaur> there's also switching between a Handle and an Fd which the RTS makes difficult at best
2021-11-18 17:20:48 +0100 <geekosaur> [18 15:53:41] <kuribas> boxscape_: can't you read from the stdout handle as a file?
2021-11-18 17:21:00 +0100 <geekosaur> this assumes stdout is somehow a box of some kind, which it's not
2021-11-18 17:21:53 +0100 <geekosaur> but may lead to surprises if you attempt it, since if stdout happens to be a terminal then reading from it will work (!) but it'll behave like stdin, not stdout
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2021-11-18 17:24:16 +0100 <geekosaur> uh
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2021-11-18 17:26:56 +0100chddr(~Thunderbi@91.226.35.210)
2021-11-18 17:27:55 +0100 <chddr> Hi guys, I have a quick question. Is there a way to get around lifting every time you perform IO action in a type like StateT St IO?
2021-11-18 17:28:28 +0100 <dmj`> chddr: not really
2021-11-18 17:28:29 +0100 <geekosaur> there is an alternative base that wraps all IO actions in liftIO for you, but in general no
2021-11-18 17:28:49 +0100Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-11-18 17:28:52 +0100 <chddr> Aww, that's a shame
2021-11-18 17:29:26 +0100 <chddr> What's the reason for it being possible with other monads, but not with IO?
2021-11-18 17:30:19 +0100 <geekosaur> because the basic IO operations have to be available without other monads being involved and without requiring liftIO being linked in
2021-11-18 17:30:45 +0100 <geekosaur> in particular liftIO requires the lifting mechanism that comes along with those other monads
2021-11-18 17:32:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:32:04 +0100 <geekosaur> there are some other places this bites, like you can't have an openFile that does something other than throwing an exception if it can't be opened because that machinery also comes with the other monads
2021-11-18 17:32:27 +0100 <geekosaur> and we need base to be as small as possible because it's firmly linked to the compiler and can't be upgraded independently
2021-11-18 17:33:05 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-11-18 17:33:10 +0100 <yushyin> you also would need to lift other monads in other transformers oO
2021-11-18 17:33:11 +0100 <geekosaur> (there is some work on improving this situation but there aren't enough people who can work on ghc and lots of things people would *like* to see)
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2021-11-18 17:35:23 +0100 <chddr> geekosaur: thanks!
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2021-11-18 17:39:59 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:39:59 +0100teehemkay_(sid14792@lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:39:59 +0100carter(sid14827@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100caasih(sid13241@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100Firedancer(sid336191@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100bbhoss(sid18216@tinside.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100mustafa(sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100tapas(sid467876@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100gmc(sid58314@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100angerman(sid209936@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100joel135(sid136450@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100rtpg(sid443069@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100enemeth79(sid309041@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100mrianbloom(sid350277@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:00 +0100jonrh(sid5185@ilkley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100gaze___(sid387101@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100gregberns__(sid315709@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100epolanski(uid312403@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100parseval(sid239098@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100kaizen(sid501599@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:01 +0100scav(sid309693@helmsley.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100agander_m(sid407952@tinside.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100NemesisD(sid24071@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100Pent(sid313808@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100aria(sid380617@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100SrPx(sid108780@uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100AndreasK__(sid320732@uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100integral(sid296274@user/integral) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100nrr__(sid20938@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100kristjansson_(sid126207@tinside.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100rubin55(sid175221@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100davetapley(sid666@uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100gonz____(sid304396@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:02 +0100iphy(sid67735@lymington.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:03 +0100hook54321(sid149355@user/hook54321) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:03 +0100acertain(sid470584@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:03 +0100sunarch(uid526836@user/sunarch) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:04 +0100dsal(sid13060@lymington.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:04 +0100sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:04 +0100eruditass(uid248673@uxbridge.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:04 +0100philpax_(sid516926@lymington.irccloud.com) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:40:04 +0100pjlsergeant(sid143467@hampstead.irccloud.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 17:41:15 +0100bradparker(sid262931@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:17 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@i59F67A95.versanet.de)
2021-11-18 17:41:33 +0100amir(sid22336@user/amir)
2021-11-18 17:41:33 +0100tapas(sid467876@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:34 +0100mcfilib(sid302703@user/mcfilib)
2021-11-18 17:41:36 +0100teehemkay_(sid14792@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:36 +0100agander_m(sid407952@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:36 +0100joel135(sid136450@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:37 +0100typetetris(sid275937@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:41 +0100sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2021-11-18 17:41:43 +0100mustafa(sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa)
2021-11-18 17:41:46 +0100pjlsergeant(sid143467@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:46 +0100tritlo(sid58727@user/tritlo)
2021-11-18 17:41:48 +0100jonrh(sid5185@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:41:50 +0100alinab(sid468903@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:02 +0100NiKaN(sid385034@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:02 +0100rune(sid21167@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:05 +0100PotatoGim(sid99505@lymington.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:42:07 +0100sunarch(uid526836@user/sunarch)
2021-11-18 17:42:11 +0100b20n(sid115913@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:15 +0100AndreasK__(sid320732@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:19 +0100enemeth79(sid309041@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:21 +0100grfn(sid449115@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:23 +0100obviyus(sid415299@user/obviyus)
2021-11-18 17:42:26 +0100ProofTechnique(sid79547@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:41 +0100edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk)
2021-11-18 17:42:53 +0100integral(sid296274@user/integral)
2021-11-18 17:42:53 +0100bbhoss(sid18216@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:53 +0100conjunctive(sid433686@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:42:57 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f4b8:2aef:8963:2af8)
2021-11-18 17:42:59 +0100aria(sid380617@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:09 +0100vito(sid1962@user/vito)
2021-11-18 17:43:09 +0100T_S_(sid501726@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:22 +0100caasih(sid13241@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:23 +0100aarchi(sid486183@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:26 +0100dmj`(sid72307@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:27 +0100Boarders_(sid425905@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:38 +0100aristid(sid1599@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:44 +0100_0x47(sid508683@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:53 +0100acertain(sid470584@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:53 +0100epolanski(uid312403@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:43:56 +0100sa1_(sid7690@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:09 +0100 <boxscape_> > <geekosaur> missed them. -- I read it anyway, thanks
2021-11-18 17:44:10 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘<’
2021-11-18 17:44:10 +0100MatrixTravelerbo(~voyagert2@2001:470:69fc:105::22)
2021-11-18 17:44:10 +0100fgaz(~fgaz@2001:470:69fc:105::842)
2021-11-18 17:44:10 +0100peddie(~peddie@2001:470:69fc:105::25d)
2021-11-18 17:44:10 +0100cdsmith(~cdsmithma@2001:470:69fc:105::284)
2021-11-18 17:44:11 +0100thomasjm[m](~thomasjmm@2001:470:69fc:105::c6d9)
2021-11-18 17:44:11 +0100ru0mad[m](~ru0madmat@2001:470:69fc:105::9b2)
2021-11-18 17:44:19 +0100 <boxscape_> (whoops I should know that by now)
2021-11-18 17:44:22 +0100gdhffd[m](~gdhffdmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:799)
2021-11-18 17:44:22 +0100bb010g(~bb010g@2001:470:69fc:105::9a5)
2021-11-18 17:44:23 +0100dsal(sid13060@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:25 +0100PotatoGim(sid99505@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:28 +0100bjs(sid190364@user/bjs)
2021-11-18 17:44:28 +0100rubin55(sid175221@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:29 +0100ServerStatsDisco(~serversta@2001:470:69fc:105::1a)
2021-11-18 17:44:29 +0100amesgen[m](~amesgenm]@2001:470:69fc:105::82b)
2021-11-18 17:44:30 +0100the-coot[m](~the-cootm@2001:470:69fc:105::95f)
2021-11-18 17:44:30 +0100moats(~oats@user/oats)
2021-11-18 17:44:30 +0100ehamberg(sid18208@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:34 +0100sa(sid1055@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:44 +0100soft(~soft@2001:470:69fc:105::c75)
2021-11-18 17:44:44 +0100zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32)
2021-11-18 17:44:46 +0100edmundnoble(sid229620@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:46 +0100davetapley(sid666@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:46 +0100jackdk(sid373013@cssa/jackdk)
2021-11-18 17:44:51 +0100dpratt__(sid193493@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:51 +0100alanz(sid110616@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:52 +0100kristjansson_(sid126207@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:53 +0100christiaanb(sid84827@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:55 +0100philpax_(sid516926@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:58 +0100kadoban(~kadoban@user/kadoban)
2021-11-18 17:44:58 +0100oak-(~oakuniver@2001:470:69fc:105::fcd)
2021-11-18 17:44:58 +0100bitonic(~bitonic@2001:470:69fc:105::1812)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100jophish(~jophish@2001:470:69fc:105::670)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100ericson2314(~ericson23@2001:470:69fc:105::70c)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100Arathorn(~arathorn@2001:470:69fc:105::1f)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100Ollie[m](~ollieocha@2001:470:69fc:105::41a5)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100PotatoHatsue(~berberman@2001:470:69fc:105::b488)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100unclechu(~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100Pent(sid313808@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100Deewiant(~deewiant@2001:470:69fc:105::2fd3)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100unrooted(~unrooted@2001:470:69fc:105::a4a)
2021-11-18 17:44:59 +0100rednaZ[m](~r3dnazmat@2001:470:69fc:105::ba70)
2021-11-18 17:45:11 +0100xddq[m](~xddqmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::bfd8)
2021-11-18 17:45:11 +0100maralorn(~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
2021-11-18 17:45:11 +0100denbrahe[m](~denbrahem@2001:470:69fc:105::19c0)
2021-11-18 17:45:11 +0100reza[m](~rezaphone@2001:470:69fc:105::3eda)
2021-11-18 17:45:12 +0100quantum(~quantum@user/quantum/x-8556232)
2021-11-18 17:45:12 +0100marinelli[m](~marinelli@2001:470:69fc:105::2d8)
2021-11-18 17:45:12 +0100hsiktas[m](~hsiktasma@2001:470:69fc:105::30d4)
2021-11-18 17:45:18 +0100hubvu(sid495858@user/hubvu)
2021-11-18 17:45:20 +0100mrianbloom(sid350277@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:21 +0100ephemient(uid407513@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:22 +0100gonz____(sid304396@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:22 +0100hongminhee(sid295@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:23 +0100rtpg(sid443069@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:23 +0100Firedancer(sid336191@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:24 +0100chizil[m](~chizilmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:34ab)
2021-11-18 17:45:25 +0100gmc(sid58314@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:26 +0100kaizen(sid501599@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:28 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-11-18 17:45:32 +0100eruditass(uid248673@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:45:38 +0100Orbstheorem(~orbstheor@2001:470:69fc:105::a56)
2021-11-18 17:45:38 +0100craige[m](~craigemcw@2001:470:69fc:105::35f1)
2021-11-18 17:45:38 +0100schuelermine[m](~schuelerm@user/schuelermine)
2021-11-18 17:45:38 +0100sm(~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2021-11-18 17:45:52 +0100justosophy[m](~justosoph@2001:470:69fc:105::572f)
2021-11-18 17:45:53 +0100kevin[m]1(~pnotequal@2001:470:69fc:105::a54)
2021-11-18 17:46:05 +0100ppseafield[m](~elementpp@2001:470:69fc:105::1:250a)
2021-11-18 17:46:06 +0100Deide(~deide@user/deide)
2021-11-18 17:46:14 +0100 <boxscape_> finally my urge to check the logs if I log off right after being involved in a discussion has paid off
2021-11-18 17:46:17 +0100fakehacker[m](~fakehacke@2001:470:69fc:105::b5f0)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100hughjfchen[m](~hughjfche@2001:470:69fc:105::c29d)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100psydroid(~psydroid@user/psydroid)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100wysteriary[m](~wysteriar@2001:470:69fc:105::a42e)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100Christoph[m](~hpotsirhc@2001:470:69fc:105::2ff8)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100zwro[m](~zwromatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1d4)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100Topik[m](~topikmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::a082)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100ongy[m](~ongymatri@2001:470:69fc:105::5018)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100alexfmpe[m](~alexfmpem@2001:470:69fc:105::38ba)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100asdofindia-m(~akshaymat@2001:470:69fc:105::831)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100Drew[m](~drewefenw@2001:470:69fc:105::c8c4)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100jneira[m](~jneiramat@2001:470:69fc:105::d729)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100Magnus[m](~magthetch@2001:470:69fc:105::d1a7)
2021-11-18 17:46:18 +0100siraben(~siraben@user/siraben)
2021-11-18 17:46:31 +0100dexmad[m](~dexmadmat@2001:470:69fc:105::e056)
2021-11-18 17:46:31 +0100Movedtosridoneem(~sridmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::1c2)
2021-11-18 17:46:31 +0100smichel17[m](~smichel17@2001:470:69fc:105::2d32)
2021-11-18 17:46:31 +0100SawyerBergeron[m(~sawyerber@2001:470:69fc:105::3036)
2021-11-18 17:46:31 +0100alex[m]12(~alexchete@2001:470:69fc:105::1:1001)
2021-11-18 17:46:33 +0100hook54321(sid149355@user/hook54321)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100anotherbruce[m](~anotherbr@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2548)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100ManofLetters[m](~manoflett@2001:470:69fc:105::3be)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100Tisoxin(~ikosit@user/ikosit)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100carmysilna(~brightly-@2001:470:69fc:105::2190)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100fendor[m](~fendormat@2001:470:69fc:105::fcbd)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100aidy(~aidy@2001:470:69fc:105::c7b4)
2021-11-18 17:46:43 +0100DemiMarieObenour(~alwayscur@2001:470:69fc:105::4886)
2021-11-18 17:46:55 +0100iammrinal0[m](~iammrinal@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2248)
2021-11-18 17:47:09 +0100ocramz[m](~ocramzmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:35b0)
2021-11-18 17:47:21 +0100TomasJakl[m](~jaklttchn@2001:470:69fc:105::a42)
2021-11-18 17:47:21 +0100OndejSkup[m](~mimivxmat@2001:470:69fc:105::c300)
2021-11-18 17:47:21 +0100InternetManaging(~imjmatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2ea5)
2021-11-18 17:47:33 +0100 <geekosaur> yeh, I do that too :)
2021-11-18 17:47:34 +0100kosmikus[m](~andresloe@2001:470:69fc:105::95d)
2021-11-18 17:47:37 +0100ilkecan[m](~ilkecanma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:79b)
2021-11-18 17:47:44 +0100 <boxscape_> :)
2021-11-18 17:47:52 +0100xosdy[m](~xosdyalet@2001:470:69fc:105::31f7)
2021-11-18 17:47:52 +0100vaibhavsagar[m](~vaibhavsa@2001:470:69fc:105::ffe)
2021-11-18 17:48:05 +0100Tavi[m](~factoidde@2001:470:69fc:105::1:819)
2021-11-18 17:48:05 +0100jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
2021-11-18 17:48:05 +0100maerwald[m](~maerwaldm@2001:470:69fc:105::1ee)
2021-11-18 17:48:19 +0100jkachmar(~jkachmar@2001:470:69fc:105::c72d)
2021-11-18 17:48:31 +0100JoelMcCracken[m](~joelmccra@2001:470:69fc:105::8405)
2021-11-18 17:48:43 +0100RosarioPulella[m(~rosariopu@2001:470:69fc:105::a57)
2021-11-18 17:48:45 +0100puffnfresh[m](~puffnfres@2001:470:69fc:105::1:22da)
2021-11-18 17:48:57 +0100TomWesterhout[m](~twesterho@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2918)
2021-11-18 17:49:00 +0100parseval(sid239098@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:03 +0100JSharp(sid4580@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:03 +0100SrPx(sid108780@uxbridge.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:11 +0100sky_lounge[m](~skylounge@2001:470:69fc:105::efa6)
2021-11-18 17:49:12 +0100wildsebastian(~wildsebas@2001:470:69fc:105::1:14b1)
2021-11-18 17:49:13 +0100jinsun_(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2021-11-18 17:49:17 +0100gaze___(sid387101@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:19 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53b1:4500:9864:c2dd:c571:8a) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-11-18 17:49:21 +0100jmct_(sid160793@tinside.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:21 +0100supersven(sid501114@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:21 +0100tnks(sid412124@helmsley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:22 +0100SanchayanMaity(sid478177@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:22 +0100pepeiborra(sid443799@ilkley.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:22 +0100Adeon(sid418992@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:26 +0100acco[m](~accotedom@2001:470:69fc:105::1:3236)
2021-11-18 17:49:27 +0100surgeon[m](~surge9nma@2001:470:69fc:105::f585)
2021-11-18 17:49:40 +0100Domino[m](~dominothe@2001:470:69fc:105::1:271b)
2021-11-18 17:49:43 +0100awpr(uid446117@lymington.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 17:49:44 +0100tomku[m](~tomkumozi@2001:470:69fc:105::1:2fcb)
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2021-11-18 18:46:45 +0100 <oats> what's going on when ghci only shows me the type of an expression, and not the value itself?
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2021-11-18 18:47:03 +0100jinsun_(~jinsun@user/jinsun)
2021-11-18 18:47:10 +0100 <oats> https://paste.xinu.at/kS0Uply/png
2021-11-18 18:47:11 +0100mbuf(~Shakthi@136.185.70.139) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-18 18:47:11 +0100 <oats> like so
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2021-11-18 18:49:33 +0100xkuru(~xkuru@user/xkuru)
2021-11-18 18:50:20 +0100 <oats> oh I'm a moron, I didn't derive Show
2021-11-18 18:50:36 +0100 <oats> it's been a few fortnights since I wrote haskell :P
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2021-11-18 19:20:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> oats: my ghci doesn't do that, it just throws an error saying there's no Show instance. Is that plain ghci or something else?
2021-11-18 19:20:15 +0100dknite(~dknite@2405:201:800b:4111:ea94:1cfc:b0c0:c3d7) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-18 19:20:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> (and if you don't know, does it also work for 'id'?)
2021-11-18 19:20:56 +0100 <oats> it's ghci as presented by haskell-interactive-mode
2021-11-18 19:20:57 +0100 <oats> in emacs
2021-11-18 19:22:34 +0100zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-11-18 19:24:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> oats: okay I'm still curious. Does it also work for 'id'?
2021-11-18 19:24:37 +0100 <oats> λ> id
2021-11-18 19:24:37 +0100 <oats> id :: a -> a
2021-11-18 19:24:40 +0100 <oats> like that?
2021-11-18 19:24:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> right, it does
2021-11-18 19:24:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> lambdabot has a hack that works somewhat
2021-11-18 19:25:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> @let data A = A
2021-11-18 19:25:08 +0100 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-11-18 19:25:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> > A
2021-11-18 19:25:10 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-11-18 19:25:10 +0100 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Show A)
2021-11-18 19:25:11 +0100 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M27471050533053244898’
2021-11-18 19:25:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh
2021-11-18 19:25:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> oh wait
2021-11-18 19:25:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> > (id :: Int -> Int)
2021-11-18 19:25:31 +0100 <lambdabot> <Int -> Int>
2021-11-18 19:25:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> > id
2021-11-18 19:25:34 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-11-18 19:25:35 +0100 <lambdabot> • No instance for (Typeable a0)
2021-11-18 19:25:35 +0100 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M49566813558932193897’
2021-11-18 19:25:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> this thing
2021-11-18 19:25:39 +0100 <oats> interesting
2021-11-18 19:25:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> it has 'instance (Typeable a, Typeable b) => Show (a -> b)'
2021-11-18 19:26:02 +0100Skyfire(~pyon@user/pyon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-11-18 19:26:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> but that doesn't work for polymorphic functions :)
2021-11-18 19:26:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> but evidently emacs does something on the meta level
2021-11-18 19:26:56 +0100 <boxscape_> it always displays the type, so really, it just doesn't display the error message in those cases where there's no Show instance
2021-11-18 19:27:14 +0100 <boxscape_> % :set +t -- a bit like this
2021-11-18 19:27:14 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_: Some flags have not been recognized: --, a, bit, like, this
2021-11-18 19:27:18 +0100 <boxscape_> okay well
2021-11-18 19:27:21 +0100 <boxscape_> % :set +t
2021-11-18 19:27:21 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_:
2021-11-18 19:27:23 +0100 <boxscape_> % id
2021-11-18 19:27:24 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_: ; <interactive>:45:1: error:; * No instance for (Show (a0 -> a0)) arising from a use of `print'; (maybe you haven't applied a function to enough arguments?); * In a stmt of an interactive GHCi command: print it
2021-11-18 19:27:30 +0100 <boxscape_> bad example
2021-11-18 19:27:38 +0100 <boxscape_> % [1,2,3]
2021-11-18 19:27:38 +0100 <yahb> boxscape_: [1,2,3]; it :: Num a => [a]
2021-11-18 19:27:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> ah
2021-11-18 19:28:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> makes me think of 0:43 in this https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
2021-11-18 19:29:23 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
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2021-11-18 20:01:02 +0100monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146)
2021-11-18 20:02:02 +0100 <sm> dsal I see you're hacking your car with haskell now!
2021-11-18 20:02:35 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95716ce002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 20:02:40 +0100stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-11-18 20:03:20 +0100stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2021-11-18 20:03:41 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@user/justsomeguy) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-18 20:03:50 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex)
2021-11-18 20:04:02 +0100 <monochrom> Onoes, GC will pause your control :)
2021-11-18 20:04:37 +0100 <monochrom> But lazy evaluation will ensure that the engine doesn't start and waste fuel until you step on the throttle >:)
2021-11-18 20:05:39 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-11-18 20:06:08 +0100 <maerwald> thunk buildup in the engine?
2021-11-18 20:08:42 +0100atwm(~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
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2021-11-18 20:41:12 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@37.19.213.65)
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2021-11-18 20:49:22 +0100truckasaurusalbethere
2021-11-18 20:49:40 +0100albetheretruckasaurus
2021-11-18 20:51:11 +0100turco32(~turco32@104.158.25.93)
2021-11-18 20:51:27 +0100 <turco32> hi all
2021-11-18 20:51:40 +0100 <Hecate> hi turco32
2021-11-18 20:51:46 +0100 <turco32> hows it going?
2021-11-18 20:51:56 +0100 <turco32> new haskell programming here
2021-11-18 20:52:02 +0100 <turco32> *programmer
2021-11-18 20:52:11 +0100 <turco32> well kinda newish to programming in general
2021-11-18 20:52:23 +0100 <boxscape_> welcome
2021-11-18 20:52:23 +0100 <turco32> lol
2021-11-18 20:52:48 +0100 <turco32> thanks :). i was on the slack channel but it runs a bit slow on my raspberry pi so i thought id check out if there was an IRC channel
2021-11-18 20:52:55 +0100 <turco32> runs alot better on here
2021-11-18 20:53:00 +0100 <boxscape_> nice
2021-11-18 20:53:10 +0100 <turco32> yeah ghci works great on here as well
2021-11-18 20:53:31 +0100 <turco32> got ghci + emacs on one monitor and haskell programming first principles on another
2021-11-18 20:53:47 +0100 <turco32> rpi 400 has two hdmi outputs
2021-11-18 20:57:09 +0100jkaye(~jkaye@2601:281:8300:7530:ffbb:6e9:8200:84ef) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-11-18 20:58:06 +0100dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-18 20:59:04 +0100whatsupdoc(uid509081@hampstead.irccloud.com)
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2021-11-18 21:03:16 +0100turco32(~turco32@104.158.25.93)
2021-11-18 21:05:54 +0100Skyfire(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-11-18 21:12:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-11-18 21:13:38 +0100 <[exa]> haskell's got a slack channel? wow
2021-11-18 21:14:57 +0100 <Hecate> there is the FP Slack
2021-11-18 21:19:52 +0100 <maerwald> yeah, slack is great to trigger OOM
2021-11-18 21:21:10 +0100 <[exa]> oh yeah
2021-11-18 21:21:12 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:78f3:43f3:fd48:5ac3) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-11-18 21:25:19 +0100bontaq(~user@ool-45779fe5.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 21:27:23 +0100vysn(~vysn@user/vysn) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 21:28:01 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5b56:79c0:acea:f05c)
2021-11-18 21:28:05 +0100 <maerwald> no gifs and nonsense in the chat is a feature :)
2021-11-18 21:28:29 +0100 <Rembane_> +1
2021-11-18 21:28:41 +0100 <Hecate> nonsense? on IRC?
2021-11-18 21:28:43 +0100 <Hecate> noooo
2021-11-18 21:28:58 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166)
2021-11-18 21:30:01 +0100 <dsal> sm: Heh, yeah, it's been pretty helpful actually.
2021-11-18 21:34:12 +0100 <shapr> dsal: wait, really? car hacking with Haskell?
2021-11-18 21:34:53 +0100 <shapr> obd2?
2021-11-18 21:34:57 +0100 <dsal> shapr: Nah, just the tesla API. I use it for monitoring and stuff.
2021-11-18 21:35:03 +0100 <shapr> oh
2021-11-18 21:35:06 +0100 <dsal> But apparently the actual tesla car code is haskell.
2021-11-18 21:35:19 +0100 <shapr> wow
2021-11-18 21:35:22 +0100 <dsal> †
2021-11-18 21:35:32 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-18 21:35:42 +0100 <dsal> It writes out C code that the thing actually runs.
2021-11-18 21:35:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> phew
2021-11-18 21:35:55 +0100perrierjouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-11-18 21:36:37 +0100betelgeuse(~betelgeus@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 21:36:41 +0100 <shapr> haskell is gaseous real time
2021-11-18 21:36:54 +0100 <shapr> you've heard of hard real time, and soft real time ...
2021-11-18 21:37:01 +0100 <dsal> haha
2021-11-18 21:37:34 +0100 <APic> Stuffs can also just sublimate
2021-11-18 21:39:56 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@61-231-35-209.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
2021-11-18 21:41:11 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-11-18 21:42:28 +0100 <sm> is there no stopping him...
2021-11-18 21:42:40 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 21:44:02 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-181-60-139.range86-181.btcentralplus.com)
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2021-11-18 21:45:28 +0100CiaoSen(~Jura@p200300c95716ce002a3a4dfffe84dbd5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-11-18 21:46:00 +0100zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@2001:470:69fc:105::2b32) (Changing host)
2021-11-18 21:46:00 +0100zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@user/zfnmxt)
2021-11-18 21:46:16 +0100monochromdoes not have a lot of confidence in "vapour real time", sounds like vapourware...
2021-11-18 21:46:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 21:46:48 +0100 <monochrom> However, "fuming real time" sounds impressive :)
2021-11-18 21:48:01 +0100zincy_(~zincy@host86-181-60-139.range86-181.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-11-18 22:02:22 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred)
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2021-11-18 22:15:34 +0100Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2021-11-18 22:15:42 +0100lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:5b56:79c0:acea:f05c) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-11-18 22:15:55 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-013.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-18 22:19:14 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-11-18 22:20:30 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-013.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-18 22:24:34 +0100 <turco32> "my car runs haskell, whats your car run? python?"
2021-11-18 22:24:56 +0100 <turco32> or better yet, BASIC
2021-11-18 22:25:05 +0100 <turco32> loaded with GOTOs
2021-11-18 22:25:30 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 22:25:33 +0100 <turco32> or get a really old car that runs fortran or cobol
2021-11-18 22:25:34 +0100 <geekosaur> don't laugh, I once worked with a hard realtime BASIC
2021-11-18 22:25:47 +0100 <geekosaur> it didn't do GOTO though
2021-11-18 22:25:51 +0100 <maerwald> cars run C
2021-11-18 22:26:00 +0100 <turco32> yeah lol i was joking
2021-11-18 22:26:12 +0100 <maerwald> even batteries do
2021-11-18 22:26:31 +0100 <turco32> BBC BASIC actually discourgaes using GOTOs
2021-11-18 22:26:43 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 22:27:03 +0100 <maerwald> and usually built with verified compilers (although verified here doesn't mean formally verified)
2021-11-18 22:28:01 +0100 <turco32> your telling me GCC ain't good enough?
2021-11-18 22:28:02 +0100 <turco32> :P
2021-11-18 22:28:20 +0100 <maerwald> gcc 3.4 or so, because getting a new version verifed costs a lot of money
2021-11-18 22:28:27 +0100 <turco32> oh shit really
2021-11-18 22:28:38 +0100 <Hecate> in MISRA C ofc
2021-11-18 22:28:44 +0100 <maerwald> yes
2021-11-18 22:28:54 +0100 <turco32> what version of C does 3.4 reconize?
2021-11-18 22:28:55 +0100jmorris(uid433911@hampstead.irccloud.com)
2021-11-18 22:29:26 +0100 <turco32> 99? 90?
2021-11-18 22:29:49 +0100 <turco32> 90 aka "K&R"
2021-11-18 22:30:15 +0100 <maerwald> although trains already run C++ and other crap
2021-11-18 22:30:29 +0100johnw(~johnw@2607:f6f0:3004:1:c8b4:50ff:fef8:6bf0)
2021-11-18 22:30:42 +0100 <geekosaur> probably on windows 3.1 :þ
2021-11-18 22:30:56 +0100 <turco32> haha
2021-11-18 22:31:01 +0100 <gehmehgeh> didn't British submarines have Windows 3.11?
2021-11-18 22:31:13 +0100 <turco32> trains running on system V
2021-11-18 22:31:18 +0100 <gehmehgeh> hmm, maybe they've upgraded that
2021-11-18 22:31:27 +0100a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:88ec:cc73:84d4:1507) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 22:31:54 +0100 <turco32> at least they can play dos games while under the atlantic ocean
2021-11-18 22:32:26 +0100 <gehmehgeh> dosbox?
2021-11-18 22:32:28 +0100 <gehmehgeh> :D
2021-11-18 22:32:38 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-18 22:32:48 +0100 <turco32> haha
2021-11-18 22:33:30 +0100 <gehmehgeh> ah, it's Windows XP https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a19061/britains-doomsday-subs-run-windows-xp/
2021-11-18 22:33:36 +0100 <gehmehgeh> it least it was in 2016
2021-11-18 22:33:41 +0100 <gehmehgeh> according to that article
2021-11-18 22:38:37 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@nalkaylds2h97nzof-2.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 22:39:28 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-11-18 22:41:41 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-11-18 22:43:31 +0100Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-11-18 22:45:01 +0100boxscape_(~boxscape_@i59F67A95.versanet.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-11-18 22:45:38 +0100burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-013.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-11-18 22:46:35 +0100lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-11-18 22:47:49 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 22:51:25 +0100abrantesasf(~abrantesa@187.36.170.211)
2021-11-18 22:51:33 +0100favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 22:51:40 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:78f3:43f3:fd48:5ac3)
2021-11-18 22:52:45 +0100 <janus> @hoogle segv
2021-11-18 22:52:45 +0100 <lambdabot> System.Posix.Signals sigSEGV :: CInt
2021-11-18 22:52:45 +0100 <lambdabot> Graphics.Gloss.Geometry.Line intersectSegVertLine :: Point -> Point -> Float -> Maybe Point
2021-11-18 22:52:45 +0100 <lambdabot> Graphics.Gloss.Geometry.Line intersectSegVertSeg :: Point -> Point -> Float -> Float -> Float -> Maybe Point
2021-11-18 22:53:11 +0100 <janus> DemiMarieObenour: you can find segfault under that name: sigsegv
2021-11-18 22:54:36 +0100 <DemiMarieObenour> janus: thanks!
2021-11-18 23:00:38 +0100favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-11-18 23:01:12 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 23:02:39 +0100deadmarshal(~deadmarsh@95.38.117.166) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:03:07 +0100nvmd(~nvmd@user/nvmd)
2021-11-18 23:04:01 +0100 <Sqaure> just playing with Alternative here. "some" and "many". That is "some :: Alternative f => f a -> f [a]". Why doesnt "some (Just 1)" return in repl?
2021-11-18 23:05:09 +0100 <monochrom> It goes in a pretty strict infinite loop.
2021-11-18 23:05:25 +0100 <geekosaur> some and many are really intended for parsers and won't do what you expect otherwise
2021-11-18 23:05:42 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 23:05:42 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-11-18 23:05:42 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-11-18 23:06:14 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:06:17 +0100 <Sqaure> ah ok
2021-11-18 23:06:24 +0100 <geekosaur> that is, it expects f to be some kind of parser and will loop as long as f a doesn't fail. for something like (Just 1) it will always succeed, so it will loop forever
2021-11-18 23:06:44 +0100 <Sqaure> gotcha
2021-11-18 23:07:02 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 23:08:41 +0100Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun)
2021-11-18 23:10:29 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-11-18 23:10:48 +0100 <kronicmage> hey guys, does Numeric.Natural behave differently in interpreted vs compiled?
2021-11-18 23:11:07 +0100 <kronicmage> i'm working with really big natural numbers, and it seems like my code is not correct when compiled, but correct when interpreted
2021-11-18 23:11:21 +0100 <kronicmage> a lot of numbers end up somewhere close to 2^64 instead of the actual value they're supposed to take
2021-11-18 23:11:24 +0100 <kronicmage> how can i fix this?
2021-11-18 23:12:29 +0100 <[exa]> any chance to get a minimal broken example, or does this trigger randomly in some large codebase?
2021-11-18 23:12:38 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc3:e900::df92)
2021-11-18 23:12:48 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-11-18 23:12:59 +0100pfurla_(~pfurla@16.191.255.173.client.dyn.strong-mf37.as54203.net)
2021-11-18 23:13:20 +0100 <kronicmage> gimme a second
2021-11-18 23:13:28 +0100 <kronicmage> i'm on haskell 9.0.1, if that helps
2021-11-18 23:14:08 +0100alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 23:14:28 +0100alzgh(~alzgh@user/alzgh)
2021-11-18 23:14:52 +0100gdown(~gavin@h69-11-248-109.kndrid.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:14:59 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-11-18 23:15:41 +0100Guest|61(~Guest|61@pool-74-104-163-225.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-11-18 23:15:59 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:99ae:703b:b7dc:fe53) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:16:19 +0100 <[exa]> kronicmage: btw what does "really big" mean precisely? below 2^64 and it underflows to larger numbers, or way over 2^64 and it computes wrong?
2021-11-18 23:16:22 +0100 <kronicmage> huh, i switched to ghc 8.x with lts 18.10 and the issue disappeared
2021-11-18 23:16:56 +0100 <kronicmage> way over 2^64 computed wrong
2021-11-18 23:17:32 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 23:17:41 +0100 <maerwald> kronicmage: do you know about https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-March/133540.html
2021-11-18 23:17:54 +0100pfurla(~pfurla@2804:14d:5c81:4104:2c1a:ca53:b91a:9355)
2021-11-18 23:17:55 +0100 <maerwald> I'm not sure that has anything to do with it
2021-11-18 23:18:17 +0100 <Guest|61> Hello friends, I am trying to install Haskell from https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ and the "first steps" are failing to work. I am a bit lost. Is this a place I can find help?
2021-11-18 23:18:30 +0100 <maerwald> Guest|61: what is failing?
2021-11-18 23:19:32 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:19:49 +0100 <Guest|61> i went to https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/getting-started.html and tried to create my first haskell app with cabal, but I did not have cabal. so I installed cabal with apt-get but my cabal is not working
2021-11-18 23:19:55 +0100pfurla_(~pfurla@16.191.255.173.client.dyn.strong-mf37.as54203.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:20:07 +0100 <maerwald> Guest|61: cabal should be installed by ghcup already
2021-11-18 23:20:19 +0100 <sclv> use a pastebin to past the error
2021-11-18 23:20:20 +0100 <maerwald> did you run 'source ~/.ghcup/env' in your environment?
2021-11-18 23:20:29 +0100 <kronicmage> maerwald: yes, that's exactly it! fromIntegral is used in the code that's incorrect
2021-11-18 23:20:45 +0100 <Guest|61> i just followed the curl instructions :-)
2021-11-18 23:20:56 +0100 <maerwald> the curl instructions install cabal
2021-11-18 23:21:06 +0100 <maerwald> if you can't run cabal you didn't follow the last instructions
2021-11-18 23:21:07 +0100turco32(~turco32@104.158.25.93) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-18 23:21:20 +0100 <Guest|61> the last instructions?
2021-11-18 23:21:23 +0100 <maerwald> yes
2021-11-18 23:21:34 +0100 <sclv> source ~/.ghcup/env
2021-11-18 23:21:44 +0100 <Guest|61> doh!
2021-11-18 23:21:46 +0100 <Guest|61> oh no
2021-11-18 23:21:51 +0100 <Guest|61> thank you
2021-11-18 23:22:07 +0100 <Guest|61> i hope i didn't mess things up by apt-get installing cabal
2021-11-18 23:22:14 +0100hippoid(~hippoid@c-98-220-13-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:22:20 +0100 <hpc> you can apt autoremove it
2021-11-18 23:22:35 +0100 <Guest|61> ok thx
2021-11-18 23:22:40 +0100 <hpc> you definitely don't want to be mixing from multiple sources
2021-11-18 23:22:56 +0100 <Guest|61> i will go follow the last instruction after i autoremove cabal
2021-11-18 23:22:57 +0100 <hpc> at best, it's almost impossible to keep track of
2021-11-18 23:23:04 +0100 <Guest|61> yikes
2021-11-18 23:23:16 +0100 <Guest|61> i am total haskell noob
2021-11-18 23:23:21 +0100 <monochrom> You should apt-get remove. Unless you want to confuse yourself.
2021-11-18 23:23:30 +0100 <Guest|61> ok
2021-11-18 23:23:34 +0100 <Guest|61> thank you
2021-11-18 23:23:46 +0100zincy_(~zincy@2a00:23c8:970c:4801:78f3:43f3:fd48:5ac3) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-11-18 23:23:59 +0100 <hpc> autoremove gets dependencies too
2021-11-18 23:24:06 +0100Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3a8-176.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-11-18 23:24:09 +0100 <hpc> so like if you install cabal you get ghc, then remove cabal and still have ghc
2021-11-18 23:24:23 +0100 <monochrom> remove gets dependencies too.
2021-11-18 23:24:30 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:24:33 +0100 <hpc> oh, neat
2021-11-18 23:24:40 +0100 <hpc> maybe i am mixing up yum's behavior then
2021-11-18 23:24:54 +0100Midjak(~Midjak@82-65-111-221.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2021-11-18 23:25:09 +0100 <Guest|61> i sudo apt-get removed cabal-install (same thing I had installed)
2021-11-18 23:25:09 +0100 <monochrom> But it is safe to do both.
2021-11-18 23:25:32 +0100 <Guest|61> now I go and follow the last instruction, so I have to reboot
2021-11-18 23:25:34 +0100 <Guest|61> thank you
2021-11-18 23:25:37 +0100 <Guest|61> bye for now
2021-11-18 23:25:45 +0100 <maerwald> reboot? :o
2021-11-18 23:25:56 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f4b8:2aef:8963:2af8)
2021-11-18 23:26:03 +0100 <Guest|61> "restart terminal for changes to take effect"
2021-11-18 23:26:11 +0100 <maerwald> just your terminal
2021-11-18 23:26:14 +0100 <maerwald> not your computer
2021-11-18 23:26:17 +0100 <Guest|61> ha ha
2021-11-18 23:26:18 +0100favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:26:19 +0100 <Guest|61> ok
2021-11-18 23:27:00 +0100 <hpc> yeah, it just needs to run through the bashrc and whatnot so that source line gets executed
2021-11-18 23:27:06 +0100 <maerwald> is "terminal" really so ambiguous?
2021-11-18 23:27:07 +0100 <hpc> or you can run it yourself
2021-11-18 23:27:58 +0100 <monochrom> maerwald: Is it true that the script adds "source ~/.ghcup/env" to .bashrc, so that launching a new shell is enough?
2021-11-18 23:28:07 +0100 <hpc> maerwald: you never know
2021-11-18 23:28:15 +0100 <hpc> once i tried to install nodejs and ran out of ink in my teletype
2021-11-18 23:28:20 +0100 <maerwald> monochrom: if it can figure out your default shell, yes
2021-11-18 23:28:23 +0100gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-11-18 23:28:32 +0100 <monochrom> OK then no worries.
2021-11-18 23:28:46 +0100 <Guest|61> success!!!!!!
2021-11-18 23:28:58 +0100 <Guest|61> Hello, Haskell
2021-11-18 23:28:58 +0100 <maerwald> so, now `cabal init` should work
2021-11-18 23:29:11 +0100 <monochrom> You know, it's a mess either way.
2021-11-18 23:29:29 +0100 <Guest|61> thanks everybody I am abstracting away now
2021-11-18 23:29:33 +0100 <maerwald> lol
2021-11-18 23:29:46 +0100 <Guest|61> beta reducing like no tomorrow
2021-11-18 23:29:58 +0100nvmd(~nvmd@user/nvmd) (Quit: Later, nerds.)
2021-11-18 23:29:59 +0100 <Guest|61> many thanks
2021-11-18 23:30:17 +0100nvmd(~nvmd@user/nvmd)
2021-11-18 23:30:23 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f4b8:2aef:8963:2af8) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:30:50 +0100 <monochrom> So suppose the PATH setting is not done in .profile. Then suppose I'm on ubuntu and I'm on the graphical desktop and I launch emacs by clicking the button (no terminal, no .bashrc) and inside that emacs instance I launch haskell-mode etc. Then its PATH does not have the desired setting.
2021-11-18 23:31:31 +0100 <monochrom> Conversely, if the setting is done in .profile but not in .bashrc. Then one needs to at least logout and re-login.
2021-11-18 23:31:39 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-85-195.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-11-18 23:32:05 +0100 <monochrom> Now, add systemd's "user session" thingy to the picture. Then even logout and re-login may be insufficient.
2021-11-18 23:32:17 +0100 <monochrom> (The "user session" refuses to die.)
2021-11-18 23:32:30 +0100 <monochrom> (I learned it the hard way before.)
2021-11-18 23:32:36 +0100 <hpc> ghcup should just patch the kernel to add the right environment variables to every process
2021-11-18 23:32:43 +0100 <monochrom> :)
2021-11-18 23:33:33 +0100yauhsien(~yauhsien@49.216.238.61)
2021-11-18 23:33:42 +0100 <monochrom> Life was simpler when it was DOS.
2021-11-18 23:34:12 +0100 <maerwald> yeah, changing env vars in windows is more seamless indeed
2021-11-18 23:34:12 +0100 <geekosaur> we just need someone to port plan 9's #e filesystem to linux :þ
2021-11-18 23:34:19 +0100 <monochrom> And you could set date by hand upon bootup to circumvent shareware expiration.
2021-11-18 23:36:25 +0100mimmy_(~mimmy@37.19.213.65) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3)
2021-11-18 23:37:48 +0100cosimone(~user@2001:b07:ae5:db26:c24a:d20:4d91:1e20) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-11-18 23:38:09 +0100michalz(~michalz@185.246.204.126) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-11-18 23:40:39 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-11-18 23:40:39 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-11-18 23:40:39 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-11-18 23:40:49 +0100eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f4b8:2aef:8963:2af8)
2021-11-18 23:41:32 +0100 <maerwald> geekosaur: Harendra from streamly could do it, he worked on filesystem afair
2021-11-18 23:42:15 +0100pfurla_(~pfurla@16.191.255.173.client.dyn.strong-mf37.as54203.net)
2021-11-18 23:42:21 +0100 <geekosaur> sadly that wasn't serious. too many programs assume the environment only needs to be read once at startup
2021-11-18 23:42:30 +0100 <maerwald> WAFL
2021-11-18 23:42:44 +0100 <maerwald> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_Anywhere_File_Layout
2021-11-18 23:43:31 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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