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2021/08/26

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2021-08-26 02:20:03 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff272f9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-08-26 02:27:44 +0200 <lbseale> I am trying to use `setEnv` in System.Enviornment, but it is not setting my environment variable, anyone have thoughts about this?
2021-08-26 02:28:28 +0200 <geekosaur> how are you checking this?
2021-08-26 02:28:58 +0200 <lbseale> setting the variable to something, running my executable, then running `env`
2021-08-26 02:29:17 +0200 <geekosaur> that won't work; environments only propagate downward
2021-08-26 02:29:27 +0200 <monochrom> Ugh you know that a child's env vars are not "backported" to the parent, right?
2021-08-26 02:29:36 +0200 <lbseale> I know now!
2021-08-26 02:29:40 +0200 <geekosaur> your executable and any child processes will see it, the parent won't
2021-08-26 02:29:55 +0200 <lbseale> ok, so this will not work, is there a way to do what I want?
2021-08-26 02:30:27 +0200 <lbseale> I suppose write some bash script
2021-08-26 02:30:55 +0200 <monochrom> It is very unclear what you want.
2021-08-26 02:31:09 +0200 <monochrom> If you are in a shell, you already know the appropriate shell command for this.
2021-08-26 02:31:30 +0200 <monochrom> If you are in a Haskell/C/Python program, you already know the appropriate library function to call.
2021-08-26 02:31:50 +0200 <nshepperd> you want your program to set some environment variables in the parent shell? ssh-agent does this by outputting the commands to set the variables on stdout
2021-08-26 02:31:53 +0200 <monochrom> So, what else is left?
2021-08-26 02:32:08 +0200 <lbseale> monochrom: what nshepperd said
2021-08-26 02:32:18 +0200 <nshepperd> and then you eval the commands in your shell
2021-08-26 02:32:38 +0200 <nshepperd> like 'eval $(ssh-agent -s)'
2021-08-26 02:33:29 +0200 <lbseale> understood, so I need to write a script that will use the output of my Haskell program to set the environment variable
2021-08-26 02:34:49 +0200 <monochrom> You also know that unless you run, in the shell that you want to affect, "source that_script" or ". that_script", you would be back to the scenerio of "why can't child change parent's env", right?
2021-08-26 02:34:49 +0200 <nshepperd> it should be a bash function
2021-08-26 02:35:15 +0200 <nshepperd> or invoking 'source' yeah
2021-08-26 02:35:28 +0200 <nshepperd> which runs the commands directly in the parent shell
2021-08-26 02:35:43 +0200haykam(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 02:36:21 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 02:36:23 +0200 <monochrom> I made exam questions like this for my unix course.
2021-08-26 02:37:20 +0200 <monochrom> "Q2: John wants to edit PATH programmtically. Part (a): John makes it a shell script and run "./myscript", why no workie?"
2021-08-26 02:37:34 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-08-26 02:37:48 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 02:37:49 +0200 <monochrom> "Part (b): Make it a shell function."
2021-08-26 02:38:26 +0200 <lbseale> hmm, I don't know the difference between a shell script and a shell function
2021-08-26 02:39:08 +0200 <monochrom> Do you know the difference between doing a fork-exec and not doing even a fork?
2021-08-26 02:40:07 +0200 <lbseale> I think I do, tell me if I'm wrong: fork exec runs something in a child process, and ... not fork doesn't create any process
2021-08-26 02:40:34 +0200 <monochrom> If my command is "./myscript", does it do fork-exec?
2021-08-26 02:40:52 +0200 <lbseale> I don't think so
2021-08-26 02:41:06 +0200 <monochrom> Do you know how to test your hypothesis?
2021-08-26 02:41:21 +0200 <lbseale> no
2021-08-26 02:41:45 +0200 <monochrom> Do you know how the shell command for printing itself's process ID?
2021-08-26 02:41:56 +0200 <monochrom> or s/the/a/
2021-08-26 02:42:49 +0200 <lbseale> SE tells me it's `echo $$`
2021-08-26 02:43:01 +0200 <monochrom> Do you know how to test your hypothesis now?
2021-08-26 02:43:48 +0200Ananta-shesha(~pjetcetal@2.95.210.196) (Quit: EXIT)
2021-08-26 02:44:10 +0200 <lbseale> write a script that runs that and see if it's the same as if I just run it in the shell?
2021-08-26 02:44:13 +0200Ananta-shesha(~pjetcetal@2.95.210.196)
2021-08-26 02:44:20 +0200 <monochrom> Yes.
2021-08-26 02:44:46 +0200 <lbseale> ok, did the test, it's not the same
2021-08-26 02:44:59 +0200 <lbseale> so we have learned that `./myscript` does a fork-exec
2021-08-26 02:45:18 +0200 <lbseale> and that any changes done to the environment in the script will not propagate up to the shell in which it was called
2021-08-26 02:47:47 +0200 <lbseale> ... and `source myscript` does _not_ do a fork-exec
2021-08-26 02:49:48 +0200 <lbseale> I supposed `.` is a synonym for `source`
2021-08-26 02:50:18 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@174-081-116-011.res.spectrum.com)
2021-08-26 02:50:24 +0200 <geekosaur> yes, 'source' is actually a bash-ism, '.' is the old name
2021-08-26 02:50:25 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-08-26 02:50:39 +0200 <lbseale> nice!
2021-08-26 02:51:06 +0200 <geekosaur> in particular '.' is POSIX and 'source' isn't
2021-08-26 02:51:17 +0200 <monochrom> shell function has the advantage of syntactically looking like yet another command.
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2021-08-26 02:57:19 +0200 <lbseale> I have to go now, thanks for the help!
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2021-08-26 03:00:30 +0200 <hololeap> is there a foldMap for semigroups and non-empty lists?
2021-08-26 03:01:08 +0200 <Axman6> @hoogle Semigroup m => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2021-08-26 03:01:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Semigroup.Foldable foldMap1 :: (Foldable1 t, Semigroup m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2021-08-26 03:01:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Semigroup.Foldable.Class foldMap1 :: (Foldable1 t, Semigroup m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2021-08-26 03:01:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Rebase.Prelude foldMap1 :: (Foldable1 t, Semigroup m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2021-08-26 03:01:47 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-08-26 03:04:37 +0200 <hololeap> hm, Foldable1, good call
2021-08-26 03:06:59 +0200 <hololeap> semigroupoids... semigroups... IN SPACE!
2021-08-26 03:08:38 +0200Axman6wonders what a hemi-demi-semigroup would look like
2021-08-26 03:09:45 +0200 <c_wraith> like a group, but with shoulders and arms.
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2021-08-26 04:54:43 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> <command line>: cannot satisfy -package-id json-0.10-...: json-0.10... is unusable due to missing dependencies: parsec-3.1.14.0 syb-0.7.2.1... text-1.2.4.1
2021-08-26 04:54:46 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> How do I fix this?
2021-08-26 04:55:06 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I tried to unregister `json` via ghc-pkg, but that didn't work!
2021-08-26 04:55:21 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> json wasn't registered there!
2021-08-26 04:57:15 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I was interfacing with Text.JSON, so I tried --force unregistering `text`, then reinstalling it, ghc-pkg still shows the packages depending on it as red
2021-08-26 04:57:19 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> what do I do?
2021-08-26 04:57:41 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I have both stack and cabal, with a nix-interface to stack.
2021-08-26 05:00:37 +0200 <dsal> jakefromstatefar: Generally, you just define your requirements in your project and let the tool do the work (for whatever value of "the tool" there)
2021-08-26 05:01:07 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-185-102-120.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:05:48 +0200cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net)
2021-08-26 05:15:33 +0200aegon(~mike@174.127.249.180) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 05:15:54 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-26 05:16:00 +0200otto_s_(~user@p5de2f1e2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-08-26 05:17:53 +0200 <Axman6> jakefromstatefar: is using the jason package your choice? Aeson as definitely the most common choice these days. I've never even heard of the json package until today
2021-08-26 05:18:02 +0200jmcantrell(~jmcantrel@user/jmcantrell)
2021-08-26 05:18:29 +0200 <Axman6> (That's not saying aeson is the best json library, there are others which have some nice features, but it is definitely the de facto standard json library these days
2021-08-26 05:19:10 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff272f9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:19:22 +0200 <jmcantrell> Hello, I'm trying to compile a project. The readme just says to run `cabal install` in the project directory. I get lots of errors about missing modules. Should it not download dependencies?
2021-08-26 05:20:04 +0200 <Axman6> might need cabal configure first - and I would probably recommend using the new-configure and new-install instead
2021-08-26 05:20:09 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:20:37 +0200 <c_wraith> That sounds like you have an old version of cabal installed
2021-08-26 05:20:57 +0200 <Axman6> jmcantrell: if you can link us to the project we might be able to help more
2021-08-26 05:21:01 +0200 <jmcantrell> cabal-install version 3.2.0.0
2021-08-26 05:21:14 +0200 <jmcantrell> https://github.com/koalaman/shellcheck
2021-08-26 05:21:51 +0200 <jmcantrell> new-configure and new-install had the same result
2021-08-26 05:22:05 +0200 <Axman6> personally I would justdo you know you need to build it from git? Personally I would just run cabal install ShellCheck outside of the project directory
2021-08-26 05:22:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:22:23 +0200 <Axman6> you might also need to run cabal update if you haven't downloaded package definitions before
2021-08-26 05:22:30 +0200slac56696(~slack1256@181.203.37.78) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 05:22:38 +0200 <jmcantrell> i need to test the latest commit
2021-08-26 05:22:43 +0200 <Axman6> ah ok
2021-08-26 05:23:04 +0200 <Axman6> can you paste all theoutput you get when you run cabal new-configure and cabal new-install?
2021-08-26 05:23:05 +0200 <jmcantrell> cabal install after update gave the same result
2021-08-26 05:23:11 +0200 <jmcantrell> sure
2021-08-26 05:23:16 +0200 <Axman6> @where paste
2021-08-26 05:23:16 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2021-08-26 05:24:45 +0200 <jmcantrell> https://paste.rs/PIz
2021-08-26 05:28:38 +0200 <Axman6> koala_man: ^ might be relevant to you if you're around
2021-08-26 05:30:00 +0200 <koala_man> huh. Which distro is this?
2021-08-26 05:30:26 +0200 <jmcantrell> arch
2021-08-26 05:30:36 +0200 <Axman6> a cabal new-configure and cabal new-build seems to be working fine for me, on macOS with ghc 8.10.6
2021-08-26 05:30:48 +0200 <koala_man> jmcantrell: could you move/remove ~/.ghc and ~/.cabal and try again?
2021-08-26 05:32:01 +0200 <jmcantrell> there was no ~/.ghc, but ig get the same result after removing ~/.cabal
2021-08-26 05:32:21 +0200shailangsa_(~shailangs@host86-185-102-120.range86-185.btcentralplus.com)
2021-08-26 05:32:58 +0200 <Axman6> and if you run cabal update?
2021-08-26 05:33:59 +0200 <jmcantrell> ah, i forgot that. one sec
2021-08-26 05:34:29 +0200 <jmcantrell> same result
2021-08-26 05:34:50 +0200 <Axman6> how did you install ghc?
2021-08-26 05:36:18 +0200 <jmcantrell> i think it was installed as a dependency of another package, but through pacman
2021-08-26 05:37:02 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-26 05:37:24 +0200 <sm> chiming in late here, but "There are files missing in the ... package" generally means your package db is broken somehow. Maybe disk filled up at some point, or you cleaned up over zealously ?
2021-08-26 05:37:25 +0200 <koala_man> huh, I also get errors trying to build it in archlinux docker
2021-08-26 05:37:27 +0200 <Axman6> Why is Arch always so problematic when it comes to Haskell stuff -_- they broke everything a few years ago and I have no idea what the right way to do things anymore is
2021-08-26 05:37:52 +0200 <c_wraith> the right way to do haskell on arch is use ghcup and ignore their packages
2021-08-26 05:38:18 +0200 <jmcantrell> i definitely haven't touched anything related to haskell previous to this
2021-08-26 05:39:07 +0200 <Axman6> yeah ghcup is generally just good advice these days. it's made my life so much easier
2021-08-26 05:40:01 +0200 <jmcantrell> installing now...
2021-08-26 05:42:15 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254)
2021-08-26 05:42:24 +0200 <lazlo> test
2021-08-26 05:42:30 +0200 <koala_man> test confirmed
2021-08-26 05:42:36 +0200 <Axman6> Fail
2021-08-26 05:42:52 +0200 <lazlo> it's my first time using irc don't mind me being stupid
2021-08-26 05:43:12 +0200 <Axman6> Well welcome - Can we help you with any Haskell related issues?
2021-08-26 05:43:35 +0200farmfrmjakestate(~farmfromj@user/farmfrmjakestate) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-08-26 05:45:25 +0200 <lazlo> I'd like to know where relevant Haskell news may be gotten from, I recently read about https://haskell.love/schedule.html and it got me pumped to try and learn it again
2021-08-26 05:45:26 +0200 <monochrom> Axman6: archlinux discarded static libraries and neglected to reconfigure GHC to default to dynamic linking.
2021-08-26 05:45:30 +0200 <monochrom> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Haskell#Problems_with_linking
2021-08-26 05:46:10 +0200 <Axman6> lazlo: the haskell subreddit is usually a good place to start
2021-08-26 05:46:46 +0200 <monochrom> Ah, also koala_man too.
2021-08-26 05:49:07 +0200 <jmcantrell> ok, it's building after installing ghcup
2021-08-26 05:49:25 +0200 <Axman6> sounds like a broken GHC install in that case - good to hear
2021-08-26 05:51:04 +0200 <jmcantrell> broken due to the arch problem that monochrom mentioned?
2021-08-26 05:51:18 +0200 <monochrom> If you're on arch then yeah.
2021-08-26 05:52:03 +0200Jack(~Jack@node-1w7jra24ayur83r37n177ovv8.ipv6.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:52:04 +0200 <monochrom> I have a few students once in a while who behave like the arch people.
2021-08-26 05:52:16 +0200 <monochrom> They had code that worked perfectly.
2021-08-26 05:52:36 +0200 <monochrom> They decided to do a last-minute finishing touch of changing indentation.
2021-08-26 05:52:36 +0200 <koala_man> monochrom: with that cabal config I get "newParallelJobControl: not a sensible number of jobs: 0"
2021-08-26 05:52:48 +0200 <monochrom> They decided not to do a last-minute test.
2021-08-26 05:53:20 +0200 <Axman6> classic
2021-08-26 05:54:44 +0200falafel(~falafel@2601:280:4e00:9970:889a:3513:448f:30e9)
2021-08-26 05:54:49 +0200 <Axman6> Reminds me of the story of the C group project where they were a) not using version control, and b) one of the members decided they didn't need all the *'s in the project to removed them the night before it was due... not where I heard that story, but it wounded like anightmare
2021-08-26 05:56:55 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer)
2021-08-26 05:57:45 +0200falafel_(~falafel@2601:280:4e00:9970:889a:3513:448f:30e9)
2021-08-26 05:59:25 +0200_ak_(~akspecs@user/akspecs) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 05:59:50 +0200 <jmcantrell> is there a distro that handles this correctly?
2021-08-26 06:00:40 +0200falafel(~falafel@2601:280:4e00:9970:889a:3513:448f:30e9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:00:53 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:01:07 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:01:29 +0200 <monochrom> Does nix count as a distro? ("is this a distro?" meme)
2021-08-26 06:01:49 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-08-26 06:01:52 +0200 <monochrom> Really each distro has its own religion that breaks something.
2021-08-26 06:01:52 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 06:01:59 +0200 <hololeap> jmcantrell: gentoo perhaps, if you can deal with the (re)compiles. that's what I use.
2021-08-26 06:02:12 +0200 <monochrom> Most distros split GHC into multiple packages so you are always missing a component.
2021-08-26 06:03:22 +0200tomjagua1paw(~tom@li367-225.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:03:47 +0200 <hololeap> what would be a good way to avoid the `case` here? http://sprunge.us/vElQfa
2021-08-26 06:03:47 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254)
2021-08-26 06:04:01 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254) (Client Quit)
2021-08-26 06:04:17 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254)
2021-08-26 06:04:37 +0200 <hololeap> (this is using megaparsec)
2021-08-26 06:04:45 +0200 <jmcantrell> ah ok
2021-08-26 06:05:14 +0200 <monochrom> Some distro's addition religion is "old means stable" so they ship you version 7.
2021-08-26 06:05:16 +0200 <lazlo> name++ Axman6
2021-08-26 06:05:28 +0200 <monochrom> s/addition/additional/
2021-08-26 06:05:51 +0200_ak_(~akspecs@136-24-181-20.cab.webpass.net)
2021-08-26 06:05:51 +0200_ak_(~akspecs@136-24-181-20.cab.webpass.net) (Changing host)
2021-08-26 06:05:51 +0200_ak_(~akspecs@user/akspecs)
2021-08-26 06:06:01 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 06:06:07 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:07:09 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-08-26 06:07:32 +0200 <hololeap> I could use Data.List.NonEmpty.fromList, but is there a way to parse directly to a NonEmpty?
2021-08-26 06:07:41 +0200lazlo(~ioaquine@179.6.215.254) (Client Quit)
2021-08-26 06:08:01 +0200 <dibblego> some1
2021-08-26 06:08:26 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-08-26 06:09:01 +0200 <dibblego> @type Data.List.NonEmpty.some1
2021-08-26 06:09:02 +0200 <lambdabot> Alternative f => f a -> f (NonEmpty a)
2021-08-26 06:09:15 +0200 <hololeap> oh, word
2021-08-26 06:09:27 +0200 <hololeap> I also just found Control.Applicative.Combinators.NonEmpty in parser-combinators
2021-08-26 06:10:36 +0200 <hololeap> good to know that some1 exists, though. I've never seen that before
2021-08-26 06:10:38 +0200 <koala_man> jmcantrell: if nothing else, I'm able to build shellcheck on Arch with 'cabal install' when I take the original ~/.cabal/config, and uncomment and set the 5 options as described on https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Haskell under "Configuring Cabal for dynamic linking"
2021-08-26 06:10:59 +0200 <koala_man> dibblego!!
2021-08-26 06:11:09 +0200 <dibblego> also this: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/separated-0.3.2.1/docs/Data-Separated.html#v:separatedBy
2021-08-26 06:11:19 +0200 <dibblego> omfg no way it's koala_man!!!!
2021-08-26 06:11:24 +0200 <koala_man> it is!
2021-08-26 06:11:35 +0200 <jmcantrell> koala_man: oh, nice. thanks
2021-08-26 06:13:13 +0200 <hololeap> dibblego: wouldn't it be separatedBy1?
2021-08-26 06:13:21 +0200Jonno_FTW(~come@api.carswap.me) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:13:35 +0200 <dibblego> because it keeps the thing that is separating
2021-08-26 06:13:53 +0200 <dibblego> there is also separatedBy1
2021-08-26 06:14:12 +0200 <hololeap> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/separated-0.3.2.1/docs/Data-Separated.html#v:separatedBy1
2021-08-26 06:21:15 +0200nate1(~nate@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:22:02 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
2021-08-26 06:24:29 +0200 <jmcantrell> koala_man: looks like the bug i was looking at has already been fixed on master
2021-08-26 06:24:42 +0200 <jmcantrell> for shellcheck
2021-08-26 06:25:35 +0200 <koala_man> yay!
2021-08-26 06:25:48 +0200 <koala_man> I should probably have mentioned: shellcheck.net lets you run scripts against master without having to mess with haskell tooling
2021-08-26 06:26:59 +0200 <jmcantrell> yeah, and it worked there. i guess i just wanted to be extra sure
2021-08-26 06:29:22 +0200VoidNoir0(~VoidNoir0@72.80.203.52) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-08-26 06:44:49 +0200flux(~flux@2603:900a:1600:ba00:5878:2c9:2445:5084)
2021-08-26 06:45:10 +0200 <flux> can someone explain why people care about cartesian closed categories in the context of haskell so much?
2021-08-26 06:45:22 +0200 <flux> like i understand the definition, just have no idea why it's significant
2021-08-26 06:50:02 +0200Jonno_FTW(~come@api.carswap.me)
2021-08-26 06:52:01 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 06:54:27 +0200 <monochrom> It is the minimum for supporting function application.
2021-08-26 06:55:03 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 06:56:21 +0200 <Axman6> Watch Conal Elliot's talk on Compiling to Categories to understand why
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200adanwan_(~adanwan@gateway/tor-sasl/adanwan) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 06:56:38 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@user/hololeap) (*.net *.split)
2021-08-26 07:01:48 +0200jushur(~human@user/jushur)
2021-08-26 07:02:20 +0200 <flux> i've tried to understand it so many times
2021-08-26 07:02:21 +0200 <flux> but failed
2021-08-26 07:03:07 +0200 <flux> i don't have a good category theory foundation sadly
2021-08-26 07:03:13 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-08-26 07:05:01 +0200chexum(~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
2021-08-26 07:07:00 +0200 <Axman6> I don't think you really need much category theory understanding to understand why that talk/paper is important though
2021-08-26 07:07:07 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 07:07:20 +0200 <flux> hmm maybe i should try again
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2021-08-26 10:24:36 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2021-08-26 10:25:11 +0200 <kuribas> is it possible to generate stack configuration from a cabal file?
2021-08-26 10:25:18 +0200 <kuribas> With same version bounds etc...?
2021-08-26 10:25:59 +0200 <kuribas> For example, what if you use some stack based plugin (i.e. intellij) to edit a cabal only package?
2021-08-26 10:26:08 +0200 <kuribas> You're simply out of luck?
2021-08-26 10:26:19 +0200 <sm> stack init
2021-08-26 10:27:23 +0200 <sclv> stack works with cabal files fine
2021-08-26 10:27:41 +0200 <sclv> it just needs an additional file as well
2021-08-26 10:28:08 +0200 <sclv> you don’t need to replace your cabal file with hpack yaml to use stack
2021-08-26 10:29:26 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-08-26 10:31:17 +0200benin036932(~benin@183.82.178.142)
2021-08-26 10:31:34 +0200 <merijn> In fact, you shouldn't do that unless you hate collaborating :p
2021-08-26 10:32:11 +0200 <Axman6> yeah please don't use hpack :( I understand what they were going for, but cabal is the way to go
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2021-08-26 10:35:22 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 10:35:51 +0200lordgrenville(~josh@188.120.142.132)
2021-08-26 10:36:13 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
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2021-08-26 10:36:31 +0200 <sm> please don't discourage folks from using package.yaml if they want. It can be helpful, and there's no conflict with cabal users
2021-08-26 10:36:35 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
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2021-08-26 10:37:27 +0200 <merijn> "It can be helpful" <- agree to disagree :p
2021-08-26 10:39:04 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-08-26 10:39:22 +0200 <sm> sm: it lets you generate cabal files from a simpler and less redundant format, saving some work and for certain projects, removing a big source of errors (forgetting to mirror changes in all components, forgetting to declare new files, etc.)
2021-08-26 10:40:19 +0200 <sm> and if you want to collaborate with non-stack users you should also commit the cabal file, obviously
2021-08-26 10:40:35 +0200lordgrenville(~josh@188.120.142.132) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 10:40:46 +0200 <sclv> the format is no longer less redundant
2021-08-26 10:40:53 +0200josh(~lordgrenv@188.120.142.132)
2021-08-26 10:40:55 +0200 <sclv> cabal also has common stanzas
2021-08-26 10:41:10 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 10:41:16 +0200joshGuest9529
2021-08-26 10:41:34 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 10:41:42 +0200 <sm> sm: yes, that's true nowadays, if you can require your builders to have a new-enough cabal-install
2021-08-26 10:41:56 +0200 <sm> sclv didn't we have this chat a few days ago :)
2021-08-26 10:42:39 +0200 <sclv> yes thats why I’m reminding you, you need to update your jingle :-)
2021-08-26 10:43:49 +0200 <sm> sclv, I would say a less redundant format is still fair
2021-08-26 10:44:21 +0200 <sm> to yaml fans at least. They can reuse what they know.
2021-08-26 10:44:21 +0200 <sclv> ok why
2021-08-26 10:44:55 +0200 <sclv> thats not less redundant. thats just different. and “more familiar to yaml users”
2021-08-26 10:45:34 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 10:45:45 +0200 <sm> those folks don't have to learn the special .cabal format, so for them it's "redundant". I'm not calling it that, just defending my sincere attempt to summarise, which you call a jingle :)
2021-08-26 10:46:01 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 10:46:49 +0200 <maerwald[m]> We may soon have cabal as toml format
2021-08-26 10:46:58 +0200 <Axman6> :o
2021-08-26 10:46:59 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Then we don't need these discussions anymore
2021-08-26 10:47:10 +0200 <Las[m]> link?
2021-08-26 10:47:38 +0200 <sm> is this the build-hpack-into-cabal idea ?
2021-08-26 10:47:42 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-08-26 10:47:53 +0200 <maerwald[m]> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7548
2021-08-26 10:47:57 +0200 <sm> ..but better, so we don't have to admit we did that.. ? :)
2021-08-26 10:48:08 +0200 <sclv> redundant used to mean it literally reduced redundancy. it doesn’t anymore. i think using that word is now more confusing than not for what you’re describing
2021-08-26 10:48:11 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Hpack is irrelevant
2021-08-26 10:48:26 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Redundant, so to speak
2021-08-26 10:49:30 +0200 <merijn> sm: Hard disagree that "yaml" is simpler. Especially since it's an "undocumented, incomplete, partial schema that doesn't support all cabal features"
2021-08-26 10:49:55 +0200 <sm> sclv: ok. I see your point, it's hard to get everything across in an IRC conversation. I acknowledged that you rightly point out cabal has a similar feature now, just not quite so reliably available (user must have cabal-install >=X)
2021-08-26 10:50:17 +0200 <sm> I'm no yaml defender, I'll exit this topic now
2021-08-26 10:50:22 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 10:51:01 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Tbf, anything is better than a fully custom format
2021-08-26 10:51:35 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-08-26 10:51:37 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 10:51:46 +0200 <maerwald[m]> E.g.: parsing stack resolvers just requires you to depend on a yaml lib
2021-08-26 10:51:52 +0200 <merijn> sm: FWIW, common stanzas were added in 2.2, which means it's available on any machine that has a cabal-install less than 4 years old
2021-08-26 10:51:55 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Parsing cabal stuff, good luck
2021-08-26 10:52:08 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: That's ingenous
2021-08-26 10:52:28 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: It requires you depend on a yaml lib *and* a custom rolled parser on top of that
2021-08-26 10:52:41 +0200 <merijn> since yaml just gives you dictionaries without any schema
2021-08-26 10:52:43 +0200 <tdammers> sm: that's not the commonly understood meaning of "redundant". "Redundant" here means that the same information is replicated multiple times in the configuration - whether you base a configuration file format on YAML or make it custom has nothing to do with that
2021-08-26 10:52:49 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Which is dead simple
2021-08-26 10:53:15 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Only if the input schema is trivial
2021-08-26 10:53:34 +0200 <tdammers> I do think that making cabal a custom format was a mistake. But I also think YAML isn't the best choice.
2021-08-26 10:53:52 +0200 <merijn> I think YAML is one of the worst possible choices :p
2021-08-26 10:54:01 +0200 <merijn> Clearly we should just use Dhall :p
2021-08-26 10:54:08 +0200 <tdammers> from an ergonomics perspective, YAML is better than XML
2021-08-26 10:54:15 +0200 <Hecate> tdammers: you'll be happy to know that there is effort to go towards a better format, like TOML
2021-08-26 10:54:19 +0200 <sclv> cabal format predates yaml and toml afaik, and also predates widespread json
2021-08-26 10:54:45 +0200 <Hecate> sclv: yeah I think JSON only widely appeared with more JS in the browser
2021-08-26 10:54:46 +0200 <sclv> at the time, the “standard” would have been, at best, xml
2021-08-26 10:54:52 +0200 <Hecate> haha yeah
2021-08-26 10:54:55 +0200 <tdammers> JSON is even worse than YAML in many ways. TOML seems like a viable candidate.
2021-08-26 10:54:58 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 10:55:06 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 10:55:08 +0200 <Hecate> tdammers: TOML is definitely viewed as a better candidate
2021-08-26 10:55:20 +0200 <sclv> be very thankful that a custom format was picked over xml, lol!
2021-08-26 10:55:27 +0200Hecateis thankful
2021-08-26 10:55:56 +0200 <merijn> Hecate: Not convinced TOML atm, but I'm not too familiar with the details
2021-08-26 10:55:57 +0200 <Hecate> Now it is time we give the Cabal format a honorable discharge, for services rendered to the Nation
2021-08-26 10:56:03 +0200 <tdammers> OTOH, an XML-based format with a well-defined schema would make it much easier to migrate to a different representation
2021-08-26 10:56:07 +0200banacorn(~banacorn@2001-b011-0003-1131-c802-b4b6-b5ea-5124.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net)
2021-08-26 10:56:10 +0200 <Hecate> merijn: the details of your doubt or of the language?
2021-08-26 10:56:20 +0200 <merijn> Hecate: of TOML
2021-08-26 10:56:29 +0200 <[exa]> oh please guys don't XML :D
2021-08-26 10:56:46 +0200 <Hecate> [exa]: nobody is thinking of this lol
2021-08-26 10:56:50 +0200 <merijn> XML would incur the Wrath of Wadler :p
2021-08-26 10:57:08 +0200 <tdammers> don't worry, nobody in their right minds would consider XML as a human-editable configuration format in 2021
2021-08-26 10:57:16 +0200tdammerssobs
2021-08-26 10:57:19 +0200 <Hecate> merijn: the Spec is quite readable! :)
2021-08-26 10:57:29 +0200 <merijn> @quote Wadler XML
2021-08-26 10:57:29 +0200 <lambdabot> Wadler says: So, the essence of XML is this: the problem it solves is not hard, and it does not solve the problem well.
2021-08-26 10:57:31 +0200 <sclv> “an xml format with a well-defined schema” is almost as good a punchline as “the aristocrats!”
2021-08-26 10:57:34 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Why have a file format at all? Just move a sqlite file around
2021-08-26 10:57:40 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Yes!
2021-08-26 10:57:45 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Did you hear the amazing news?
2021-08-26 10:57:45 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Lol
2021-08-26 10:57:51 +0200 <[exa]> good I'm happy now
2021-08-26 10:58:09 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: Next release of SQLite will have (opt-in) strict typing/schemas!
2021-08-26 10:58:18 +0200 <tdammers> we could also just settle on the worst possible candidate: Python pickles
2021-08-26 10:58:48 +0200 <merijn> SQLite now officially "best software" in existence :>
2021-08-26 10:58:52 +0200 <[exa]> tdammers: you need to add more visual basic to get the actual worst candidate
2021-08-26 10:59:11 +0200 <sclv> i suggest using the sbt format (scala source coupled to a specific version of scala)
2021-08-26 10:59:11 +0200 <tdammers> [exa]: easy, just put an implementation of VB in your pickles
2021-08-26 10:59:24 +0200 <[exa]> oh dumb me, that's true
2021-08-26 10:59:28 +0200 <tdammers> [exa]: because you can do that. pickles can serialize arbitrary python objects, code and all
2021-08-26 10:59:40 +0200 <[exa]> wonderful
2021-08-26 10:59:43 +0200 <merijn> maerwald[m]: https://www.sqlite.org/draft/stricttables.html
2021-08-26 10:59:44 +0200 <tdammers> it's "hilarious"
2021-08-26 10:59:50 +0200 <sclv> oh wait its worse. Coupled to a pair of a scala version and an sbt lib version
2021-08-26 11:00:54 +0200 <tdammers> and then encode it into EBCDIC for good measure
2021-08-26 11:02:03 +0200 <sclv> ooh, hear me out, hdf5!
2021-08-26 11:02:33 +0200 <sclv> or the most standard standard, asn1!
2021-08-26 11:03:11 +0200 <merijn> sclv: I'm going to assassinate you in plain sight and no judge will convict me
2021-08-26 11:03:34 +0200 <banacorn> Hi, is it possible to split the compiling process into smaller stages? I'm compiling something on GitHub Actions but it keeps running out of memory :(
2021-08-26 11:04:06 +0200 <sclv> im writing my next april fools post as we speak. Just gotta hire a contractor who understands asn.1 to write the schema
2021-08-26 11:04:12 +0200jippiedoe(~david@2a02-a44c-e14e-1-233b-e9a1-b8cd-7d30.fixed6.kpn.net)
2021-08-26 11:04:14 +0200 <merijn> banacorn: hmm, Github actions has been fine for me so far. Or you by any chance using pandoc? :p
2021-08-26 11:04:48 +0200 <merijn> sclv: Pretty sure that's against the Geneva convention
2021-08-26 11:05:38 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net)
2021-08-26 11:06:07 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 11:06:11 +0200 <Las[m]> banacorn: Have you tried setting GHCRTS?
2021-08-26 11:06:24 +0200 <banacorn> merijn: It's something worse, Agda '=D https://github.com/banacorn/agda-language-server/runs/3429332793?check_suite_focus=true#step:10:3866
2021-08-26 11:06:39 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 11:06:56 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net) (Client Quit)
2021-08-26 11:08:09 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-08-26 11:08:17 +0200 <banacorn> Las[m]: No, I haven't! Thanks, I'll try this!
2021-08-26 11:09:22 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net)
2021-08-26 11:09:56 +0200 <sm> Las: what would that do ?
2021-08-26 11:10:37 +0200 <Las[m]> sm: You can set flags for the GC, such as setting it to compact mode by default
2021-08-26 11:10:46 +0200 <Las[m]> or setting a limit for how much memory to use
2021-08-26 11:10:55 +0200 <sm> cool
2021-08-26 11:11:02 +0200 <sm> banacorn: I would troubleshoot this locally, for sure
2021-08-26 11:11:16 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 11:12:09 +0200 <sm> Las: this seems like some standard advice we should give to the folks trying to build on <4G machines
2021-08-26 11:12:15 +0200 <merijn> Las[m]: Compacting GC is the standard
2021-08-26 11:13:00 +0200 <merijn> banacorn: Ensure parallel compiles are disabled, btw
2021-08-26 11:13:05 +0200 <Las[m]> merijn: Last time I read the docs it said that it would only be enabled when half of the available memory is used IIRC
2021-08-26 11:13:21 +0200 <banacorn> merijn: I see, thank you!
2021-08-26 11:13:33 +0200 <merijn> The default GC of GHC is "copy & compact"
2021-08-26 11:13:39 +0200 <merijn> So I wonder what docs you read that in
2021-08-26 11:13:47 +0200 <sm> usually we tell them to add +RTS -M ... -RTS to ghc options, I guess that's similar to using GHCRTS
2021-08-26 11:14:01 +0200 <merijn> sm: I mean, limiting the memory just means your program dies with an async exception, instead of OOM-killed
2021-08-26 11:14:05 +0200 <merijn> sm: That's not super useful
2021-08-26 11:15:07 +0200 <sm> merijn: my belief and IIRC experience is it encourages GHC to be more thrifty with memory, so compiles may succeed even if they run slower. I could be wrong.
2021-08-26 11:15:26 +0200 <merijn> banacorn: Github Actions are fairly beefy, so I wouldn't expect GHC to blow up unless it's code that massively blows up locally. But accidentally running 2-4 GHCs instead of 1 is a good way to kill even the beefiest machines ;)
2021-08-26 11:15:31 +0200 <Las[m]> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html?highlight=c#rt…
2021-08-26 11:15:54 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 11:16:37 +0200 <banacorn> The same action on Linux and Mac machines are fine, but the Windows version keeps blowing up somehow
2021-08-26 11:16:47 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2021-08-26 11:17:04 +0200 <merijn> ah!
2021-08-26 11:17:07 +0200 <merijn> Clear solution
2021-08-26 11:17:11 +0200 <merijn> Blame windows :D
2021-08-26 11:18:08 +0200ridcully_(~ridcully@p508ac428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-08-26 11:18:41 +0200 <banacorn> ;D
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2021-08-26 12:07:46 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Speaking of windows, I'm still looking for a way to link to certain mingw libs statically
2021-08-26 12:09:19 +0200 <kuribas> sclv: but the stack and cabal will use different dependency versions right?
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2021-08-26 12:17:56 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Would lenses/optics be easier to understand if we sold them to the newbie exactly as "something that turns a small action into a big action"? Ideally a lens error on "x . to head .= 3" would look like "`.=` produced `SettingAction` which `to head` cannot process."
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2021-08-26 12:24:44 +0200 <dminuoso> I dont even understand what that means, and I consider myself an advanced user.
2021-08-26 12:25:25 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Damn it. What I mean by action, why that lens line doesn't work, or lenses in general?
2021-08-26 12:26:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Gurkenglas: I think this is sort of the same problem behind the monad tutorial fallacy. Once you have some analogy/explanation/intuition built on from experience, it seems so obvious.
2021-08-26 12:26:41 +0200 <dminuoso> But that analogy/explanation/intuition only makes sense for you, because of your own experiences with it.
2021-08-26 12:27:00 +0200 <Gurkenglas> It seems to me like this is the one right perspective, though! I'd love to be proven wrong.
2021-08-26 12:27:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Here's a list of things that are all true about lenses:
2021-08-26 12:27:33 +0200 <dminuoso> - (VL style) lenses are coalgebras of the costate comonad
2021-08-26 12:27:45 +0200 <dminuoso> - lenses/optics are first class, composable, accessors
2021-08-26 12:28:10 +0200 <dminuoso> - lenses allow for easily manipulating nested data in a pure language
2021-08-26 12:28:23 +0200 <Gurkenglas> I haven't investigated the first -, but I'm willing to bet I'll find it favors my interpretation :3
2021-08-26 12:29:09 +0200 <Gurkenglas> What do you mean by first class? Composable is clear in my interpretation. What do you mean by accessor? Presumably setters and getters are kinds of accessors.
2021-08-26 12:29:21 +0200 <dminuoso> If you want to investigate the first, which is just humor by the way, just remember that Costate is just an old name for Store.
2021-08-26 12:29:41 +0200 <dminuoso> So consider something like C, where accessing a structs field is done by say `f.g`
2021-08-26 12:29:50 +0200 <dminuoso> But we cannot pass around this `.g` as a first class value
2021-08-26 12:30:19 +0200 <dminuoso> So the "path into some nested value(s)" is not a first class value in many languages
2021-08-26 12:30:34 +0200 <dminuoso> The closest analogy to lens I found, is something like XPath or CSS selectors.
2021-08-26 12:31:07 +0200 <dminuoso> But using that only makes sense if the reader is already familiar with say XPath
2021-08-26 12:32:04 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh and here's another item to the list above, which I think is actually valuable in some sense:
2021-08-26 12:32:33 +0200 <dminuoso> - lenses split an object into the focus, and the whole with a hole where the focus belonged.
2021-08-26 12:32:44 +0200 <dminuoso> But that one is generally not useful for teaching lenses
2021-08-26 12:32:58 +0200 <dminuoso> They are rather an intuition about how VL-style lenses work internally
2021-08-26 12:35:55 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2021-08-26 13:01:23 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: I find the definition in the Optics packages quite good: "An optic is a first-class, composable notion of substructure."
2021-08-26 13:02:01 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: IMO to explain it, start eays, from a getter/setter for a field.
2021-08-26 13:02:14 +0200 <Gurkenglas> eays?
2021-08-26 13:02:18 +0200 <kuribas> easy :)
2021-08-26 13:02:21 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-08-26 13:03:19 +0200 <maerwald> not sure that's gonna help a newbie :p
2021-08-26 13:03:20 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-08-26 13:03:25 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-26 13:03:49 +0200 <kuribas> If you understand what a lens is for a field, then you can generalise it to traversals, and prisms.
2021-08-26 13:04:37 +0200 <kuribas> A lens over a field is quite easy to understand. It's nothing more than a getter and setter.
2021-08-26 13:05:09 +0200 <Gurkenglas> dminuoso, the third - has its place; it's the problem for which optics are the solution, whereas the "small action into big action" is the gear I would give the user to have any hope of understanding/debugging/coming up with lens lines
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2021-08-26 13:10:08 +0200 <Gurkenglas> dminuoso, the fourth -, "Lens' s a: s <-> (a,_); Traversal' s a: s <-> ([a],_); Prism' s a: s <-> Either a _; ..." is an implementation lens could have had, but doesn't remotely! Although I suppose the connection is a neat one and maybe (,) and Either should be defined that way in the first place :)
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2021-08-26 13:17:24 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, @optics: nice! The reason that they use % instead of . is that Haskell doesn't yet allow control of error messages for . like it does for newtypes, and the impredicative types embarassment, yes?
2021-08-26 13:17:44 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
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2021-08-26 13:22:25 +0200 <Gurkenglas> "Since Optic is a newtype, other libraries that wish to define optics must depend upon its definition." <- ...do we not have some way of saying "and here's a definition that can only be used if you also import the optics package."?
2021-08-26 13:25:04 +0200neo1(~neo3@cpe-292712.ip.primehome.com)
2021-08-26 13:25:25 +0200 <Gurkenglas> I suppose in the end the library can define s->a and s->b->t... or even, to be more on the nose, (((s->a) -> (s->b->t)) -> x) -> x :)
2021-08-26 13:25:28 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: (.) only operates on functions, but an optic isn't a function.
2021-08-26 13:25:45 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: or more general on Categories, but it isn't a Category either.
2021-08-26 13:26:05 +0200sszark(~sszark@h-155-4-128-59.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2021-08-26 13:26:15 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2021-08-26 13:26:27 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, yeah "reason they don't use ." is to be read as "reason they don't define optics as functions"
2021-08-26 13:26:58 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: IMO "." is confusing and leaking abstractions.
2021-08-26 13:27:17 +0200 <kuribas> because it is used the wrong way than what you would expect.
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2021-08-26 13:27:42 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer)
2021-08-26 13:28:19 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, I argue that the user should think of the other direction as the expected one! What implementation of what optic does not involve function composition?
2021-08-26 13:29:23 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: I mean, it's leaking the abstraction, because the user shouldn't not think about the implementation.
2021-08-26 13:30:02 +0200 <Gurkenglas> If every implementation is the same then I disagree.
2021-08-26 13:31:05 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Hmm, except not every implementation is the same, as in Ctrl-F "fourth -".
2021-08-26 13:31:31 +0200 <kuribas> There are already different means to implement optics.
2021-08-26 13:31:40 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-08-26 13:31:51 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Do errors from the optics package ever leak the abstraction?
2021-08-26 13:31:58 +0200 <kuribas> No
2021-08-26 13:34:06 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Here's an argument for making actions the newtypes instead of optics: It makes it so that instead of hardcoding in the subset relation as a class, we hardcode in the element relation as a class.
2021-08-26 13:35:55 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655)
2021-08-26 13:36:10 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Then the kind that pops out when you compose needn't be hardcoded, instead you intersect the hardcoded sets.
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2021-08-26 14:05:52 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: just compare the type if "view :: Control.Monad.Reader.Class.MonadReader s m => (a -> Const a a) -> s -> Const a s" vs "view :: view :: Is k A_Getter => Optic' k is s a -> s -> a"
2021-08-26 14:06:11 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: This MonadReader and Const stuff should not be relevant if you just want to *use* lenses.
2021-08-26 14:06:42 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: However, it *is* relevant to know that view works with any Optic that is a A_Getter.
2021-08-26 14:07:13 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: which means a subtyping relationship implemented using a typeclass.
2021-08-26 14:09:17 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-08-26 14:09:35 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: in other words, the interface of Optic contains the necessary information about how to use it, but not more than needed.
2021-08-26 14:10:35 +0200 <Gurkenglas> I agree that Const and MonadReader shouldn't be exposed. My suggestion is to turn "(%) :: JoinKinds k l m => Optic k s u -> Optic l u a -> Optic m s a" into "(.) :: Action k, Action l, Action m => (l u -> m s) -> (k a -> l u) -> (k a -> m s)".
2021-08-26 14:11:21 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Although I suppose Action needn't even be a class there
2021-08-26 14:11:30 +0200 <Gurkenglas> so in the end (.) is just fully general, uhhh how do I even say this
2021-08-26 14:14:03 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-08-26 14:14:44 +0200 <Gurkenglas> My suggestion is to turn "Optic A_Lens s a" into "Action m A_Lens => m a -> m s".
2021-08-26 14:15:19 +0200 <Gurkenglas> (Could say "Action m Lens" there even, I think?)
2021-08-26 14:15:45 +0200 <Gurkenglas> (probably not, if Lens is a type alias.)
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2021-08-26 14:17:18 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: you are free to design your own lens abstraction, but it is not trivial...
2021-08-26 14:17:28 +0200 <Gurkenglas> yeah maybe i should just write the library
2021-08-26 14:17:47 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: you'll probably fail, and then see why Optics did it like that.
2021-08-26 14:18:23 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: or end up like the lens library, with all its flaws.
2021-08-26 14:19:14 +0200 <Gurkenglas> hmm i suppose A_Getter is just exactly GettingAction
2021-08-26 14:19:46 +0200 <Gurkenglas> and every action is *identified* with the set of actions at most as powerful
2021-08-26 14:19:59 +0200 <Gurkenglas> and then the subset relation *is* the element relation
2021-08-26 14:20:10 +0200 <sszark> This example from 'learn you a haskell'. Can you do this without building every single combination, if you just want 1 random variant? https://pastebin.com/raw/5XVVt9Pn
2021-08-26 14:21:08 +0200 <Taneb> sszark: if you have a way of taking a random element from a list, then either you can use it on the list of all combinations, or you can use it on each of the starting lists and combine them afterwards
2021-08-26 14:21:54 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: it's easy to look at a small part and think "I can do this better". But you have to look at the whole picture.
2021-08-26 14:21:59 +0200 <sszark> Yeah that makes sense. I have two lists with thousands of words. and it's really slow to build all combinations just to extract a single one.
2021-08-26 14:22:03 +0200 <kuribas> IMO both Lens and Optics are amazing pieces of work.
2021-08-26 14:22:45 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, to make it clear my last 3 lines are about optics as it is now :)
2021-08-26 14:26:02 +0200 <Gurkenglas> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optics-core-0.4/docs/src/Optics.Internal.Optic.html#%25 <- AHA IT IS JUST (.)
2021-08-26 14:27:12 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: That doesn't make any sense. (.) doesn't work on newtypes (unless you mean Category..
2021-08-26 14:28:18 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 14:29:32 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, yeah the implementation is pretty much "coerce (.)" (the (->) one) except they do the plumbing manually
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2021-08-26 14:31:03 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-08-26 14:32:02 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@174-081-116-011.res.spectrum.com)
2021-08-26 14:33:25 +0200 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: you cannot coerce any datatype. They would have need to expose the implementation, where the whole point is hiding it...
2021-08-26 14:36:14 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, I don't follow. open the link and the ~"Optic k % Optic l = Optic (k . l)" is plain as day
2021-08-26 14:39:17 +0200 <Gurkenglas> Now that we have linear types, shouldn't we have Setter1?
2021-08-26 14:39:57 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792)
2021-08-26 14:42:15 +0200 <Gurkenglas> kuribas, oh, I think you confuse k % l = coerce (coerce k . coerce l) with (%) = coerce (.) :)
2021-08-26 14:44:10 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 14:44:31 +0200Guest9529(~lordgrenv@188.120.142.132) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 14:44:34 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-08-26 14:45:02 +0200drd(~drd@2001:b07:a70:9f1f:1562:34de:f50f:77d4)
2021-08-26 14:49:34 +0200 <sszark> How do you store a closure in a tuple/list?
2021-08-26 14:49:46 +0200bitdex_(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2021-08-26 14:51:45 +0200 <Gurkenglas> > let functionlist = [\x -> x+2, \x -> x*2, \y -> y+5] in (functionlist !! 2) 17 -- sszark
2021-08-26 14:51:47 +0200 <lambdabot> 22
2021-08-26 14:53:19 +0200doyougnu(~user@c-73-25-202-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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2021-08-26 14:54:18 +0200lortabac_lortabac
2021-08-26 14:55:37 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 14:57:23 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 14:57:44 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@77.20.255.200)
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2021-08-26 15:00:42 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 15:00:52 +0200Alex_test(~al_test@178.34.150.125) (Quit: ;-)
2021-08-26 15:00:56 +0200AlexZenon(~alzenon@178.34.150.125) (Quit: ;-)
2021-08-26 15:02:45 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@hag-jnsbng11-58c3ab-85.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 15:03:07 +0200 <srid[m]> Does anyone in North America do remote development on a Hetzner dedicated machine (in Europe; Germany or Finland)? What's the latency like? For nvim in tmux.
2021-08-26 15:03:30 +0200Vajb(~Vajb@2001:999:252:4e3c:27f9:d93:655e:583)
2021-08-26 15:04:22 +0200 <srid[m]> ctx https://discourse.haskell.org/t/computer-for-compiling-haskell-programs/2351/6?u=srid
2021-08-26 15:04:27 +0200 <dminuoso> srid[m]: It will be at least on average 90ms more than local connecity, that's for the light latency over trans-atlantic fiber optics.
2021-08-26 15:04:41 +0200 <dminuoso> But details greatly depend on your own connectivity
2021-08-26 15:04:51 +0200 <dminuoso> But likely it will be around 90-100ms
2021-08-26 15:05:37 +0200 <srid[m]> Hmm, is that okay or bad? As far as interactively writing Haskell code in tmux/nvim is concerned?
2021-08-26 15:06:51 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@user/hendursaga) (Quit: hendursa1)
2021-08-26 15:07:16 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@user/hendursaga)
2021-08-26 15:07:45 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 15:08:17 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc)
2021-08-26 15:09:48 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223)
2021-08-26 15:10:08 +0200 <srid[m]> Probably should just go for a desktop cpu with a good single thread performance
2021-08-26 15:14:08 +0200 <sszark> You can use tools like Mosh if you want to abstract away the latency. Then your session is local and syncs with the remote.
2021-08-26 15:18:46 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-08-26 15:22:50 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it)
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2021-08-26 15:40:22 +0200shriekingnoise(~shrieking@186.137.144.80)
2021-08-26 15:42:34 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-08-26 15:52:02 +0200 <kuribas> can I have external stack references with a range? Or do I have to pin the version?
2021-08-26 15:52:47 +0200 <kuribas> like: acme-missiles-0.3@sha256:2ba66a092a32593880a87fb00f3213762d7bca65a687d45965778deb8694c5d1
2021-08-26 15:53:52 +0200mikoto-c1(~mikoto-ch@ip-83-134-2-136.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-08-26 15:55:55 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-08-26 15:56:51 +0200fendor_(~fendor@178.165.207.147.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-08-26 15:57:59 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 15:58:19 +0200hexology(~hexology@user/hexology)
2021-08-26 15:59:07 +0200fendor(~fendor@91.141.62.191.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:03:10 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:04:24 +0200d0ku(~d0ku@178.43.56.75.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:04:48 +0200 <janus> sszark1: mosh does not know about application specific details. let's say you use Control-P or telescope and they write the whole screen in quick sucession, mosh can not help with that
2021-08-26 16:07:16 +0200 <janus> but works great for trans-atlantic IRC sessions for me. but they require way less interactivity, and the mosh send-buffer visualisation with underline works great for the composition minibuffer
2021-08-26 16:07:25 +0200 <dminuoso> emacs + tramp maybe?
2021-08-26 16:07:59 +0200 <dminuoso> This could finally be the reason to switch sides.
2021-08-26 16:08:53 +0200josh(~lordgrenv@188.120.128.227)
2021-08-26 16:09:17 +0200joshGuest4733
2021-08-26 16:09:29 +0200jippiedoe(~david@2a02-a44c-e14e-1-8b31-dbf7-2dcc-c6b7.fixed6.kpn.net) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-08-26 16:18:15 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
2021-08-26 16:18:27 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
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2021-08-26 16:23:58 +0200sszark1sszark
2021-08-26 16:24:27 +0200 <sszark> that's true, does nvim not have any remote protocol like emacs? janus
2021-08-26 16:24:33 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:26:02 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-08-26 16:26:02 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2021-08-26 16:26:02 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@user/wroathe)
2021-08-26 16:26:32 +0200 <maerwald> pretty sure it does
2021-08-26 16:26:48 +0200 <maerwald> that was the entire point of the fork
2021-08-26 16:28:35 +0200d0ku(~d0ku@178.43.56.75.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2021-08-26 16:33:07 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:33:31 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur)
2021-08-26 16:39:06 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-08-26 16:41:32 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792)
2021-08-26 16:41:46 +0200 <kuribas> ugh, now I have to manually insert all packages with transitive dependencies in my stack.yaml, because I use packages which aren't in the curated set...
2021-08-26 16:43:58 +0200 <maerwald> curated set...
2021-08-26 16:44:49 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@77.119.215.189.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:45:40 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:48:17 +0200 <kuribas> I have a perfectly working .ghc.environment, but stack is rejecting it.
2021-08-26 16:48:25 +0200 <kuribas> hurray for solving dependency hell...
2021-08-26 16:49:04 +0200 <kuribas> In the dependencies for cassava-0.5.2.0: bytestring-0.10.8.2 from stack configuration does not match >=0.9.2 && <0.10.4 (latest matching version is 0.10.2.0)
2021-08-26 16:49:33 +0200 <kuribas> yet, this works for newbuild
2021-08-26 16:50:45 +0200quantum(~quantum@user/quantum/x-8556232) (Quit: Reconnecting)
2021-08-26 16:51:02 +0200quantum(~quantum@user/quantum/x-8556232)
2021-08-26 16:51:13 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@user/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:51:39 +0200 <maerwald> what are you even building
2021-08-26 16:54:33 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 16:54:40 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: some script for loading csv in the database
2021-08-26 16:54:47 +0200 <siers> is monomorphization just type variable application at the type level? (application of what? type lambdas?)
2021-08-26 16:55:12 +0200 <kuribas> siers: you can think of a forall as a type lambda, yes...
2021-08-26 16:55:36 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: this constraint is bullshit, the one in hackage is: bytestring (>=0.9.2 && <0.12),
2021-08-26 16:55:44 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: maybe stack has the wrong constraint?
2021-08-26 16:55:59 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2021-08-26 16:57:02 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 16:57:06 +0200 <maerwald> I dunno what you're building
2021-08-26 16:57:50 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: why do you need to know?
2021-08-26 16:57:53 +0200 <kuribas> it's not relevant
2021-08-26 16:58:07 +0200 <maerwald> I don't, but it's all guessing from this point
2021-08-26 16:59:02 +0200 <kuribas> guessing what?
2021-08-26 16:59:32 +0200 <kuribas> I think it's very concrete: stack is failing on a bullshit constraint
2021-08-26 16:59:58 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@77.119.215.189.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:00:26 +0200 <maerwald> guessing what you're building :D
2021-08-26 17:00:36 +0200 <merijn> kuribas: Stack ignores hackage revisions
2021-08-26 17:00:47 +0200 <maerwald> merijn: huh?
2021-08-26 17:00:58 +0200 <maerwald> you can specify the revision afaik
2021-08-26 17:01:31 +0200 <merijn> You coudn't last I checked, but maybe it changed
2021-08-26 17:02:05 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-08-26 17:02:35 +0200 <kuribas> merijn: so where does it get them?
2021-08-26 17:02:59 +0200 <maerwald> - acme-missiles-0.3@rev:0
2021-08-26 17:03:46 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pantry-0.5.2.3/docs/Pantry.html#t:CabalFileInfo
2021-08-26 17:03:52 +0200 <maerwald> clearly supports revision
2021-08-26 17:04:50 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-08-26 17:05:03 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-26 17:07:04 +0200 <maerwald> hash is an implicit revision
2021-08-26 17:07:16 +0200 <maerwald> it'll just look through all of them I think
2021-08-26 17:09:07 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:09:22 +0200 <kuribas> it doesn't matter if I give a revision, if stack is refusing it because of constraints.
2021-08-26 17:09:37 +0200 <kuribas> I don't get where stack gets ">=0.9.2 && <0.10.4"
2021-08-26 17:09:49 +0200 <maerwald> kuribas: well, either you tell us what you're building or... :p
2021-08-26 17:09:50 +0200 <kuribas> for cassava-0.5.2.0
2021-08-26 17:09:59 +0200 <maerwald> link to git repo
2021-08-26 17:10:03 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: I just told you.
2021-08-26 17:10:09 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: no, it's not open source...
2021-08-26 17:10:11 +0200 <maerwald> can't clone your thoughts
2021-08-26 17:10:20 +0200 <kuribas> it's company property
2021-08-26 17:10:21 +0200 <maerwald> I can sign an NDA
2021-08-26 17:11:20 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@151.73.13.59) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-08-26 17:12:33 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.109.43) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:15:22 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@77.20.255.200) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:15:57 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-08-26 17:18:04 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:19:56 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223)
2021-08-26 17:20:16 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 17:20:20 +0200drd(~drd@2001:b07:a70:9f1f:1562:34de:f50f:77d4) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50))
2021-08-26 17:20:25 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-08-26 17:22:11 +0200 <kuribas> maerwald: if you don't know the question, it's fine...
2021-08-26 17:22:25 +0200 <kuribas> I mean the answer to my question.
2021-08-26 17:25:23 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.187)
2021-08-26 17:26:14 +0200jespada_(~jespada@90.254.245.194)
2021-08-26 17:27:12 +0200ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-08-26 17:29:27 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.194) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:30:44 +0200Hydrazer(~Hydrazer@S010684c9b26eee6d.cg.shawcable.net)
2021-08-26 17:31:10 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 17:31:27 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 17:31:48 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-08-26 17:32:04 +0200stiell(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell)
2021-08-26 17:32:13 +0200 <Hydrazer> does anyone know how to get the difference between 2 dates in year month day format in the data.time.calender library? i used diffdays but it only gave me the days
2021-08-26 17:32:28 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 17:32:31 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-08-26 17:33:12 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 17:34:43 +0200markpythonicbtc(~textual@2601:647:5a00:35:d556:b617:7067:a615) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-08-26 17:34:44 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 17:34:53 +0200 <Hydrazer> well send me a message if you find out
2021-08-26 17:36:33 +0200gambpang(~ishipman@207.181.230.156)
2021-08-26 17:36:39 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
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2021-08-26 17:40:49 +0200jespada_(~jespada@90.254.245.194) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 17:41:07 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.194)
2021-08-26 17:41:28 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-08-26 17:42:54 +0200 <c_wraith> *sigh*. I went looking on hackage to see if a function I want exists someplace. It's stuffed in a half-dozen packages as a throw-away utility.
2021-08-26 17:43:28 +0200 <maerwald> create a package per function
2021-08-26 17:43:42 +0200 <c_wraith> this one should probably just be in base
2021-08-26 17:45:49 +0200 <c_wraith> ... or part of the language. I kind of wish every data type definition also created a non-recursive eliminator for the type
2021-08-26 17:45:55 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:46:34 +0200Hydrazer(~Hydrazer@S010684c9b26eee6d.cg.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-08-26 17:49:58 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 17:55:53 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792)
2021-08-26 17:56:13 +0200elf_fortrez(~elf_fortr@adsl-72-50-5-235.prtc.net)
2021-08-26 17:57:52 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 17:58:06 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-08-26 17:58:10 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54fb52-57.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number)
2021-08-26 17:58:33 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54fb52-57.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-08-26 17:58:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> as in, the recursive place is instead a call to an argument of this eliminator?
2021-08-26 17:58:54 +0200dajoer(~david@user/gvx) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 17:59:06 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 18:00:18 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-08-26 18:00:33 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-08-26 18:01:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> kuribas: get the full dependency tree of your project using 'stack dot', download all the .cabal files for those packages from stackage and grep for 0.10.4; if not found, download all the .cabal files of _all the versions_ of those packages :p
2021-08-26 18:01:30 +0200 <c_wraith> I think eliminator is the wrong term - it doesn't eliminate the type entirely, if the type is recursive. just one level of it
2021-08-26 18:02:27 +0200 <kuribas> ugh stack is worse than cabal hell.
2021-08-26 18:02:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> c_wraith: if I understand what you refer to correctly, I've wanted this multiple times with GADTs
2021-08-26 18:02:40 +0200 <kuribas> unless it happens to have all your version perfectly in the snapshot.
2021-08-26 18:02:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> making something like that generically using GHC generics should be doable, but gadts don't do generics :p
2021-08-26 18:03:51 +0200 <c_wraith> Basically, I want cata : church encoding :: ??? : scott encoding
2021-08-26 18:04:28 +0200 <kuribas> Or I guess stack forces you to use old versions...
2021-08-26 18:10:36 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk)
2021-08-26 18:10:51 +0200 <maerwald> stack is worse than both nix and cabal... doesn't have the expressivity of nix and doesn't have the constraint solver of cabal
2021-08-26 18:11:30 +0200 <maerwald> but it managed to provide a better user interface
2021-08-26 18:11:35 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Leaving)
2021-08-26 18:11:41 +0200 <janus> why does stack need a constraint solver if you have stackage?
2021-08-26 18:12:03 +0200 <c_wraith> it needs *something* to specify versions the instant you step outside stackage
2021-08-26 18:12:08 +0200 <c_wraith> it just punts to the user
2021-08-26 18:12:12 +0200 <maerwald> janus: are you asking why you'd want to install packages outside of stackage?
2021-08-26 18:12:17 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-08-26 18:12:31 +0200 <sm> Hydrazer: it's difficult because it doesn't make sense - how would you display a count of days as Y-m-d
2021-08-26 18:12:39 +0200 <maerwald> or why dependency resolution is a thing?
2021-08-26 18:12:57 +0200 <janus> no, not really asking that. i just thought it was weird to make that the deciding factor acting like stackage doesn't exist
2021-08-26 18:13:07 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 18:13:14 +0200 <janus> i understand you may need one once you leave stackage
2021-08-26 18:13:32 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 18:13:46 +0200 <janus> thought it didn't seem super complicated the problems i had stepping outside of stackage. it remains the exception
2021-08-26 18:13:58 +0200 <maerwald> cabal would allow us to define package range sets that work with each other... stack can't
2021-08-26 18:14:24 +0200 <maerwald> you could add security overlays as constraints etc etc
2021-08-26 18:14:32 +0200 <maerwald> all things stack can't do, because it doesn't have a solver
2021-08-26 18:15:52 +0200burnsidesLlama(~burnsides@dhcp168-011.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 18:16:15 +0200 <janus> that would be so cool
2021-08-26 18:17:02 +0200 <kuribas> janus: because stackage doesn't have all libraries, or you need a newer version.
2021-08-26 18:17:19 +0200 <maerwald> janus: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/cabal-devel/2015-July/010214.html
2021-08-26 18:17:52 +0200 <janus> kuribas: yes i know, occasionally i need to put an 'extra dep'. i acknowledged that already in my previous comment stating that it is the exception
2021-08-26 18:18:15 +0200 <kuribas> janus: not for me
2021-08-26 18:19:03 +0200 <janus> i acknowledge that it depends what you're trying to do, how bleeding edge you need to be
2021-08-26 18:19:14 +0200 <maerwald> sometimes you add extra-dep and then in the next step it tells you to add a different version of the same dep you just added :D
2021-08-26 18:19:23 +0200 <maerwald> which, of course, doesn't work
2021-08-26 18:20:30 +0200 <janus> maerwald: what happened to that proposal by dcoutts go?
2021-08-26 18:20:49 +0200 <maerwald> he got busy with blockchain xD
2021-08-26 18:21:46 +0200 <maerwald> but it seems we'll likely get something along those lines
2021-08-26 18:21:48 +0200 <maerwald> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7556
2021-08-26 18:21:54 +0200 <janus> hmm, given the choice between undermining nation states (causing anarchy) and having cabal support package sets.... difficult choice
2021-08-26 18:22:25 +0200 <janus> if you go for impact, you may choose the first
2021-08-26 18:22:37 +0200 <siers> I hope it's the anarchist communist kind
2021-08-26 18:23:04 +0200 <maerwald> I believe includes are the way to go: 1. generic includes and 2. constraint includes. As a 3rd step, named constraint sets can be introduced at a later stage and then as the last step provide an algebra to combine named constraint sets the way you like
2021-08-26 18:25:18 +0200markpythonicbtc(~textual@50.228.44.6)
2021-08-26 18:26:39 +0200shredder(~user@user/shredder) (Quit: quitting)
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2021-08-26 18:29:56 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-08-26 18:33:02 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 18:35:48 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143)
2021-08-26 18:39:01 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2021-08-26 18:39:20 +0200 <maerwald> do we have a good story for versioned json parsing to maintain backwards compat?
2021-08-26 18:41:32 +0200 <maerwald> https://github.com/Vlix/safe-json
2021-08-26 18:42:06 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-08-26 18:42:24 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-08-26 18:42:49 +0200hexfive(~eric@50.35.83.177)
2021-08-26 18:43:56 +0200 <janus> if you know the support lifetime once each migration begins, add the new field next to the old one, and put a comment on the old one stating it's removal date, and make calendar event for that date
2021-08-26 18:44:58 +0200 <janus> if the schema changes too much, do the same for endpoints
2021-08-26 18:45:16 +0200neo1(~neo3@cpe-292712.ip.primehome.com)
2021-08-26 18:45:52 +0200 <janus> an Aeson parser will ignore unknown keys of an object, so never have an endpoint return anything that is not an object, otherwise, you will not be able to change the schema without a new endpoint
2021-08-26 18:46:07 +0200d0ku(~d0ku@178.43.56.75.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 18:48:05 +0200 <janus> one thing that sucks about Aeson is that AFAIK it is not verify convenient to omit a key. so if you have a key that is supposed to be omitted when its value is Nothing, it is hard to test for that with e.g. a property test that uses your serializer
2021-08-26 18:49:24 +0200 <janus> but that is not strictly related to version migrations i guess
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2021-08-26 18:57:18 +0200 <siers> I'm learning about GADTs and I noticed when I have a GADT, say Nats, – SNat ('Succ ('Succ Zero)) – the type parameter inside of it seems to be a value
2021-08-26 18:57:27 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-08-26 18:58:51 +0200 <siers> or, well, the constructor names
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2021-08-26 19:00:16 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
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2021-08-26 19:00:35 +0200 <siers> which are a part of values, but do not appear when checking the types of ADTs
2021-08-26 19:00:45 +0200 <glguy> siers: The DataKinds extension creates new types corresponding to those constructors as a shortcut, they aren't directly related to the corresponding value constructors
2021-08-26 19:01:14 +0200 <glguy> but there's nothing other than the letters in the name looking the same that ties 'Succ as a type to Succ as a value
2021-08-26 19:01:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-26 19:02:55 +0200 <glguy> The fact that a GADT is involved is a bit of a coincidence. DataKinds are independent from GADTs
2021-08-26 19:03:50 +0200Morrow_(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-08-26 19:03:52 +0200 <siers> but DataKinds come with GADTs?
2021-08-26 19:04:51 +0200troydm(~troydm@host-176-37-124-197.b025.la.net.ua) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 19:05:41 +0200 <glguy> no
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2021-08-26 19:06:19 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2021-08-26 19:07:11 +0200 <siers> so no correlation whatsoever, ok
2021-08-26 19:07:16 +0200 <glguy> Instead of using the conveniently derived 'Succ and 'Zero types, you could have defined new types without data kinds and the functionality would be identical
2021-08-26 19:07:35 +0200 <glguy> data ZeroType; data SuccType a
2021-08-26 19:08:55 +0200 <glguy> also: Your example had Zero and not 'Zero, but that's just GHC being helpful and guessing you meant 'Zero, it wasn't using the value constructor Zero
2021-08-26 19:09:28 +0200 <siers> that is my mistake after retyping, it is there in the shell
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2021-08-26 19:20:45 +0200 <aegon> how come there is both Generic and Generic1
2021-08-26 19:21:01 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-08-26 19:25:52 +0200VoidNoir0(~VoidNoir0@72.80.203.52)
2021-08-26 19:26:17 +0200 <monochrom> When you find yourself wanting to auto-gen "instance Monad Foo" instead of merely "instance Monoid (Foo a)" you will begin to appreciate it.
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2021-08-26 19:29:04 +0200 <monochrom> Oh haha Monday Morning Haskell opens the old wounds of "is this a quicksort?" controversy again!
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2021-08-26 20:27:24 +0200 <lbseale> monochrom: thanks again for your help yesterday, I got a shell function working just right
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2021-08-26 20:53:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-08-26 20:54:11 +0200jtomas(~jtomas@233.red-83-34-2.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-08-26 20:54:48 +0200haykam(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 20:58:48 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-160.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-08-26 21:00:13 +0200phma(~phma@host-67-44-208-131.hnremote.net)
2021-08-26 21:00:23 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 21:00:42 +0200mizu_no_oto(~mizu_no_o@cpe-74-67-208-45.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-08-26 21:01:15 +0200markpythonicbtc(~textual@2601:647:5a00:35:24b0:1b1:4e8f:2ae0)
2021-08-26 21:01:19 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-08-26 21:01:39 +0200_xor(~xor@74.215.232.67)
2021-08-26 21:03:42 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2021-08-26 21:04:43 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:05:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-26 21:05:40 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:05:41 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-08-26 21:06:47 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-26 21:08:20 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.15.223)
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2021-08-26 21:12:05 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-08-26 21:15:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-08-26 21:20:10 +0200machined1od(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:21:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-08-26 21:22:06 +0200machined1od(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Client Quit)
2021-08-26 21:22:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-26 21:23:11 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:27:05 +0200sszark1(~sszark@h-155-4-128-59.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2021-08-26 21:27:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:27:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-08-26 21:28:22 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 21:30:09 +0200sszark(~sszark@h-155-4-128-59.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:30:37 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:31:27 +0200dschrempf(~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net)
2021-08-26 21:32:21 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> <Axman6> "jakefromstatefarm(the1&only): is..." <- I tried it out for some random project, then realized that the project was way above my head, and promptly switched to another language (that I was capable in).
2021-08-26 21:32:26 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> However, I cannot seem to uninstall it
2021-08-26 21:32:34 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> as it doesn't appear in the installed list anymore
2021-08-26 21:32:36 +0200 <jakefromstatefar> I'm confused
2021-08-26 21:32:56 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2021-08-26 21:32:56 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2021-08-26 21:32:56 +0200haritz(~hrtz@user/haritz)
2021-08-26 21:33:51 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@77.20.255.200)
2021-08-26 21:34:23 +0200haykam(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 21:34:36 +0200haykam(~haykam@static.100.2.21.65.clients.your-server.de)
2021-08-26 21:35:16 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54fb52-57.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-08-26 21:36:20 +0200neurocyte830neurocyte
2021-08-26 21:38:10 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@77.20.255.200) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:40:24 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-08-26 21:41:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:41:28 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:41:41 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Client Quit)
2021-08-26 21:42:06 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:44:41 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 21:44:46 +0200Cajun(~Cajun@user/cajun) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-08-26 21:45:55 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-08-26 21:46:10 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 21:46:26 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-08-26 21:50:18 +0200 <sm> jakefromstatefarm: there are usually multiple package dbs on your system, make sure you're working with the right one
2021-08-26 21:54:48 +0200stef204(~stef204@user/stef204)
2021-08-26 21:59:57 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea)
2021-08-26 22:00:32 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 22:04:19 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-08-26 22:04:36 +0200ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-08-26 22:10:02 +0200ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-08-26 22:10:03 +0200dsrt^(~dsrt@12.16.129.111)
2021-08-26 22:13:43 +0200hannessteffenhag(~hannesste@ip4d14ffc8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 22:15:24 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net)
2021-08-26 22:15:31 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net) (Client Quit)
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2021-08-26 22:16:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-08-26 22:22:03 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 22:24:24 +0200Codaraxis(~Codaraxis@user/codaraxis)
2021-08-26 22:25:40 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169)
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2021-08-26 22:32:13 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-08-26 22:32:15 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 22:33:17 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@115.81-166-221.customer.lyse.net)
2021-08-26 22:33:32 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 22:35:13 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2021-08-26 22:49:36 +0200aplainze1akind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
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2021-08-26 22:50:31 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9541c8d0619322fc5f47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-08-26 22:50:36 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169)
2021-08-26 22:52:03 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-08-26 22:57:59 +0200tfeb(~tfb@88.98.95.237)
2021-08-26 22:58:00 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-139-4-196.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-08-26 22:58:30 +0200eL_Bart0-(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org)
2021-08-26 22:59:00 +0200skn2(~znc@2001:19f0:5:701:5400:ff:fe7c:4e5c)
2021-08-26 22:59:03 +0200Athas_(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:21e7:9b03:b2c:cc0f)
2021-08-26 22:59:41 +0200wagle_(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-08-26 23:00:46 +0200ehamberg_(sid18208@id-18208.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-08-26 23:00:54 +0200quintasan(~quassel@quintasan.pl)
2021-08-26 23:01:11 +0200PHO`__(~pho@akari.cielonegro.org)
2021-08-26 23:01:17 +0200RohitGoswami[m]1(~rgoswamim@2001:470:69fc:105::16cc)
2021-08-26 23:01:20 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-08-26 23:01:27 +0200eco_(~ubuntu@ec2-54-201-230-197.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-08-26 23:01:30 +0200nitrix_(~nitrix@ns569831.ip-51-79-81.net)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200eL_Bart0(eL_Bart0@dietunichtguten.org) (Quit: Restarting)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200nitrix(~nitrix@user/nitrix) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200PHO`_(~pho@akari.cielonegro.org) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200RohitGoswami[m](~rgoswamim@2001:470:69fc:105::16cc) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200ehamberg(sid18208@stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200quintasan_(~quassel@quintasan.pl) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200Boarders(sid425905@id-425905.tooting.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200jesser[m](~jessermat@2001:470:69fc:105::d5ae)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200alp(~alp@user/alp) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-08-26 23:01:43 +0200eco(~ubuntu@ec2-54-201-230-197.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-08-26 23:02:06 +0200sudden(~cat@h-98-128-128-173.A351.priv.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:02:06 +0200davean(~davean@davean.sciesnet.net)
2021-08-26 23:02:12 +0200hsek[m](~hsekmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::d18f)
2021-08-26 23:02:33 +0200Boarders(sid425905@id-425905.tooting.irccloud.com)
2021-08-26 23:02:38 +0200sudden(~cat@h-98-128-128-173.A351.priv.bahnhof.se)
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2021-08-26 23:03:08 +0200swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2021-08-26 23:03:42 +0200Athas_Athas
2021-08-26 23:04:45 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 23:05:40 +0200nitrix_(~nitrix@ns569831.ip-51-79-81.net) (Changing host)
2021-08-26 23:05:40 +0200nitrix_(~nitrix@user/nitrix)
2021-08-26 23:05:42 +0200nitrix_nitrix
2021-08-26 23:06:58 +0200doyougnu(~user@c-73-25-202-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 23:07:17 +0200alp(~alp@163.172.83.213)
2021-08-26 23:07:20 +0200d0ku(~d0ku@178.43.56.75.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:07:22 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 23:07:49 +0200 <aegon> well, fooey, the haskell symposium payment link doesn't work for me, does anyone know if any of it is going to be broadcast online?
2021-08-26 23:08:10 +0200jtomas(~jtomas@233.red-83-34-2.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:08:45 +0200 <geekosaur> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrlaF7sCU4 I think?
2021-08-26 23:10:37 +0200 <aegon> ooh, it stopped looping refresh on my browser. its wired, this isn't a odd browser (firefox)
2021-08-26 23:11:10 +0200tfeb(~tfb@88.98.95.237) (Quit: died)
2021-08-26 23:11:14 +0200jtomas(~jtomas@233.red-83-34-2.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-08-26 23:11:22 +0200 <aegon> The faster,
2021-08-26 23:16:43 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:16:54 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54fb52-57.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-08-26 23:16:55 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169)
2021-08-26 23:20:33 +0200AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:21:19 +0200AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de)
2021-08-26 23:24:13 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c68:9e4d:912c:4792) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 23:24:25 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:24:26 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-08-26 23:28:40 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:29:13 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169)
2021-08-26 23:29:47 +0200[itchyjunk](~itchyjunk@user/itchyjunk/x-7353470)
2021-08-26 23:30:41 +0200mikoto-c1(~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.244) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:34:15 +0200 <aegon> geekosaur: thanks, for whatever reason the payment site keeps directing me to a scetch looking site that continually refreshes and loops :? Sub'd to teh icpf channel and will catch them there. I'm interested in the linear type talks and seeing some applications of it. I'll have to catch it earlier next year
2021-08-26 23:35:30 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.207.147.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-08-26 23:42:34 +0200zer0bitz(~zer0bitz@dsl-hkibng31-58c384-213.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:42:47 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-08-26 23:43:29 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169)
2021-08-26 23:44:09 +0200aplainze1akind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2021-08-26 23:47:31 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b868eba000c7eca115e002477a.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-08-26 23:47:50 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c1b3:f9cf:5870:faa7)
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2021-08-26 23:50:39 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53a5:7900:930f:bdfe:83e3:2183)
2021-08-26 23:51:50 +0200Papa(~papa@user/papa)
2021-08-26 23:52:43 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-08-26 23:53:55 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2)
2021-08-26 23:54:31 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
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2021-08-26 23:55:13 +0200mikoto-c1(~mikoto-ch@83.137.2.244)
2021-08-26 23:55:35 +0200Pickchea(~private@user/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-08-26 23:58:32 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.2.169) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-08-26 23:58:52 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-253-103.clienti.tiscali.it)