IRCBrowse

2021/06/14

2021-06-14 00:00:29 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-06-14 00:00:40 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-14 00:01:30 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-06-14 00:02:24 +0200 <blackbar1> Does anyone know of a haskell library that could do something like this (from BOSL2 library for OpenSCAD) https://github.com/revarbat/BOSL2/wiki/walls.scad#module-sparse_strut ?
2021-06-14 00:02:43 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
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2021-06-14 00:22:29 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 00:24:07 +0200superbil(~superbil@1-34-176-171.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
2021-06-14 00:24:13 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 00:27:54 +0200haskller(~haskeller@2601:643:897f:561d:f1b9:73f1:b827:9693) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 00:29:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/Haskell-Things/ImplicitCAD
2021-06-14 00:29:38 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> idk if it can do what you want but that's the only haskell openscad library i know of
2021-06-14 00:30:46 +0200haskller(~haskeller@2601:643:897f:561d:f1b9:73f1:b827:9693)
2021-06-14 00:31:02 +0200beka__(~beka@104-244-27-23.static.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 00:31:21 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> davean: who's hpc?
2021-06-14 00:31:32 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxtzfn@user/zfnmxt)
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2021-06-14 00:37:48 +0200beka__(~beka@104-244-27-23.static.monkeybrains.net)
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2021-06-14 00:38:49 +0200jrm(~jrm@156.34.187.65) (Quit: ciao)
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2021-06-14 00:46:13 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 00:49:30 +0200Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@192.252.212.54)
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2021-06-14 01:06:29 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181)
2021-06-14 01:07:27 +0200jrm(~jrm@156.34.187.65) (Quit: ciao)
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2021-06-14 01:08:30 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-06-14 01:17:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-06-14 01:20:20 +0200iDead(~iDead@254.142.71.148.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-06-14 01:20:27 +0200fendor(~fendor@77.119.131.227.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-06-14 01:20:27 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:21:13 +0200 <iDead> heyyy, anyone up? need some help with point free notation
2021-06-14 01:21:38 +0200 <dminuoso> @pl \x -> (x,) <$> f x
2021-06-14 01:21:38 +0200 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 9):
2021-06-14 01:21:38 +0200 <lambdabot> unexpected ","
2021-06-14 01:21:38 +0200 <lambdabot> expecting letter or digit, variable, "(", operator or ")"
2021-06-14 01:21:39 +0200 <geekosaur> there's probably a few people here, and there's lambdabot
2021-06-14 01:22:02 +0200tremon_(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2021-06-14 01:22:29 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm only good at pointless conversation ;(
2021-06-14 01:22:36 +0200 <geekosaur> preferably without things it doesn't parse like tuple sections
2021-06-14 01:23:15 +0200jakesyl(sid56879@id-56879.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:23:48 +0200 <Clint> you'd think it would have spontaneously learned by now
2021-06-14 01:24:03 +0200 <iDead> ;) i'm working on mutual recursion and catamorphism's* (pardon my french but i'm not native)
2021-06-14 01:25:12 +0200jakesyl(sid56879@id-56879.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-06-14 01:25:56 +0200 <iDead> can someone help me find a point free notation for the average of a list?
2021-06-14 01:26:01 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> Clint: it took me a minute to realize you meant lambdabot and not me ;(
2021-06-14 01:27:18 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> http://pointfree.io/ does your function fit in the box
2021-06-14 01:27:57 +0200 <iDead> DigitalKiwi very much appreciated :)
2021-06-14 01:29:23 +0200 <Clint> DigitalKiwi: ha
2021-06-14 01:29:53 +0200pkkm2(~pkkm@dgs4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:30:07 +0200ec_(~ec@gateway/tor-sasl/ec)
2021-06-14 01:32:23 +0200 <monochrom> Summing is a catamorphism. Finding length is also a catamorphism. You can also do both at once, computing the tuple (sum, length) is also a catamorphism. These are all good exercises.
2021-06-14 01:32:39 +0200 <monochrom> But I doubt that making them pointfree is a good exercise.
2021-06-14 01:34:15 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:34:22 +0200 <zfnmxt> DigitalKiwi: Do you have any restrictions/allowences aside from just "pointfree"?
2021-06-14 01:35:25 +0200kayprish(~kayprish@cable-188-2-229-172.dynamic.sbb.rs) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:35:32 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm not supposed to be fed after midnight
2021-06-14 01:36:05 +0200 <zfnmxt> Oh, sorry. Wrong person. :)
2021-06-14 01:36:21 +0200 <zfnmxt> DigitalKiwi: (if I feed you will you forgive me?)
2021-06-14 01:37:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> absolutely
2021-06-14 01:37:14 +0200 <monochrom> They say no water too, but now I wonder about wine, whiskey, rubbing alcohol. >:)
2021-06-14 01:37:22 +0200hpc_hpc
2021-06-14 01:37:31 +0200fjmorazan_fjmorazan
2021-06-14 01:37:49 +0200 <Clint> ammonia
2021-06-14 01:38:02 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> doc said i need to cut back on my rubbing alcohol consumption
2021-06-14 01:38:18 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2021-06-14 01:38:47 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2600:8804:4c0a:3200:91a4:77db:aed9:3c83) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 01:40:04 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2600:8804:4c0a:3200:91a4:77db:aed9:3c83)
2021-06-14 01:40:14 +0200 <monochrom> I just notice that the topic includes "#matrix bridge should be coming soon". Is it outdated? Maybe I should delete that part.
2021-06-14 01:40:30 +0200 <geekosaur> I think it's still technically in testing?
2021-06-14 01:40:34 +0200 <zfnmxt> I'm using the bridge right now.
2021-06-14 01:41:06 +0200 <geekosaur> it can lag a bit still
2021-06-14 01:41:52 +0200 <monochrom> There ar a lot of "formally still in beta" out there that are, like, tenured beta, so it's as permanent and final as you could get.
2021-06-14 01:42:23 +0200 <monochrom> And it is not like one day they will simply declare "the test has failed, goodbye".
2021-06-14 01:43:58 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.246)
2021-06-14 01:44:14 +0200 <Clint> unless it's google
2021-06-14 01:44:42 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2600:8804:4c0a:3200:91a4:77db:aed9:3c83) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:44:49 +0200 <monochrom> And a lot of standard Haskell packages have "stability: experiment" to this date, for example mtl
2021-06-14 01:44:59 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2607:fb90:9618:4bab:bc7a:b402:9e43:cf55)
2021-06-14 01:45:12 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:3d39:470:d12f:3be6)
2021-06-14 01:45:17 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:45:44 +0200 <hpc> stability should just be (version < 1.0.0.0)
2021-06-14 01:45:48 +0200geekosaurshrugs
2021-06-14 01:46:03 +0200ChanServ+o geekosaur
2021-06-14 01:46:14 +0200 https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell | Admin: #haskell-ops | Offtopic: #haskell-offtopic | https://downloads.haskell.org | Paste code/errors: https://paste.tomsmeding.com | tunes.org-style logging should be coming soon | Logs: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/lchaskell
2021-06-14 01:46:18 +0200 <monochrom> Thanks.
2021-06-14 01:46:48 +0200 <dminuoso> monochrom: Does the stability matter at all? As long as the field has no (de-facto) standardized meaning/patterns of values, it's useless anyhow,.
2021-06-14 01:46:53 +0200 <geekosaur> I wonder about the rest of that because tunes.org was already down (people reporting it requested username/password) while we were still on Freenode
2021-06-14 01:47:02 +0200flounders(~flounders@173.246.200.33)
2021-06-14 01:47:30 +0200 <dminuoso> Like if I wrote "stable" you would have no way of understanding what that even meant.
2021-06-14 01:47:42 +0200geekosaur-o geekosaur
2021-06-14 01:47:53 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47)
2021-06-14 01:47:55 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah I wouldn't touch the tunes.org log part, I know nothing about it.
2021-06-14 01:47:56 +0200 <dminuoso> (Id argue that stability should be removed for that reason alone)
2021-06-14 01:47:57 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> some of my most reliable/well tested software never left "alpha" lol
2021-06-14 01:48:29 +0200 <geekosaur> "there is nothing so permanent as a quick hack"
2021-06-14 01:48:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Yup, we say this a lot at $work
2021-06-14 01:49:14 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:3d39:470:d12f:3be6) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:49:18 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/Kiwi/clyde#readme
2021-06-14 01:49:27 +0200 <monochrom> dminuoso: So I think the stability field was invented before PVP. And in a time when people still hoped that stable API could be attained over time.
2021-06-14 01:49:30 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2607:fb90:9618:4bab:bc7a:b402:9e43:cf55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:49:52 +0200 <dminuoso> Does PVP invalidate stability?
2021-06-14 01:50:10 +0200 <dminuoso> PVP does not prevent you from bumping a major version every day..
2021-06-14 01:50:14 +0200 <geekosaur> it was also borrowed from other package repositories which hadn't yet concluded that "stable" meant "dead"
2021-06-14 01:50:25 +0200 <monochrom> PVP solves the stability question.
2021-06-14 01:50:31 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230)
2021-06-14 01:50:34 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-06-14 01:50:47 +0200 <monochrom> Every x.y.*.* is stable.
2021-06-14 01:50:50 +0200 <hpc> every version is stable because package uploads are immutable, and you set upper bounds on dependencies right?
2021-06-14 01:51:01 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@ip72-203-188-10.tu.ok.cox.net)
2021-06-14 01:51:17 +0200 <monochrom> PVP acknoledges the reality that, in general, you have multiple stable states, not just one single stable state.
2021-06-14 01:51:25 +0200 <monochrom> Yes hpc.
2021-06-14 01:51:40 +0200 <hpc> oh, that was "right?" as in "wink wink nudge nudge"
2021-06-14 01:51:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:51:47 +0200 <hpc> :P
2021-06-14 01:51:53 +0200 <monochrom> Ah OK, yes I agree :)
2021-06-14 01:52:10 +0200 <dminuoso> hpc: But package metadata can be changed after the fact, no?
2021-06-14 01:52:40 +0200 <monochrom> Just because you have published both 3.2.0.0 and 3.4.0.0 doesn't mean that anything is unstable.
2021-06-14 01:53:17 +0200 <monochrom> But a single field "data Stable = Experimental | Stable | IDon'tKnow" is not going to cut it.
2021-06-14 01:53:22 +0200 <hpc> dminuoso: my understanding is that feature doesn't get used very often
2021-06-14 01:53:24 +0200 <dminuoso> monochrom: All Im saying is, the term "stability" might have different meaning to some people. I would understand stability as a general goal of "when we make modifications to this package, we strive to not break API"
2021-06-14 01:53:38 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 01:53:39 +0200 <dminuoso> (in the sense of, "stable means the author tries to only release patch updates)
2021-06-14 01:53:59 +0200 <hpc> and only to fix when the metadata is truly bad
2021-06-14 01:54:05 +0200 <monochrom> Hrm, OK, interesting.
2021-06-14 01:54:11 +0200 <hpc> like putting breaking changes in a patch release by mistake
2021-06-14 01:54:43 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> fun fact; one of the biggest reasons i gave up on clyde was because libalpm was NOT stable
2021-06-14 01:54:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 01:55:01 +0200awth13(~user@user/awth13) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 01:55:17 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (on an ABI level)
2021-06-14 01:57:05 +0200 <hpc> it has a TODO note in the manpage synopsis
2021-06-14 01:57:29 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> pacman had far more (active, skilled) developers/contributors i just couldn't keep up with all of their changes ;(
2021-06-14 01:57:33 +0200 <hpc> that package might as well say "dead dove, do not eat" :P
2021-06-14 01:57:56 +0200Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@192.252.212.54) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:00:27 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> which packageo
2021-06-14 02:01:10 +0200 <hpc> https://archlinux.org/pacman/libalpm.3.html
2021-06-14 02:01:53 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> oh, yeah, lol
2021-06-14 02:02:14 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-06-14 02:02:25 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> another fun fact; that looks almost exactly like i remember it looking 10 years ago lol
2021-06-14 02:02:59 +0200 <hpc> heh
2021-06-14 02:04:44 +0200mekeor(~user@2001:a61:34b6:5701:f8e2:383b:42a4:84ad) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:05:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> anyway if you use archlinux pacman is built on that unless i've missed something major developments lol
2021-06-14 02:06:23 +0200awth13(~user@user/awth13)
2021-06-14 02:06:48 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:07:00 +0200zeenk2(~zeenk@188.26.30.39) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-14 02:09:11 +0200int-e_int-e
2021-06-14 02:11:13 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess)
2021-06-14 02:12:07 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 02:14:48 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> clyde basically consisted of a thin libalpm c<->lua (lualpm) binding and (at least at the start largely transcription of pacmans c -> lua) lua reimplementation of pacman (libalpm really does most of the heavy lifting even in pacman) and added aur/makepkg support (which was the real goal)
2021-06-14 02:15:52 +0200UpstreamSalmon(uid12077@id-12077.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-14 02:20:12 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:20:54 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 02:22:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> worked fairly well; in general almost as performant as pacman (in a few cases faster); so like .1 second vs .01 for "normal" package operations and a few hundred times faster than yaourt for aur (i remember one that was like 1 minute vs 30minutes for yaourt lololol) >.>
2021-06-14 02:24:33 +0200pfurla_(~pfurla@216.131.82.47)
2021-06-14 02:24:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (i wanted to do it in haskell but i found an awesome lua config i liked (after i learned lua) before i figured out xmonad config ;( )
2021-06-14 02:25:14 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> glguy knows lol
2021-06-14 02:25:29 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-06-14 02:27:21 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:29:05 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.243)
2021-06-14 02:30:07 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@user/vicfred) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:33:49 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.243) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 02:34:00 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 02:34:43 +0200pottsy(~pottsy@2400:4050:b560:3700:79bb:fcd:bcf3:fe7c)
2021-06-14 02:36:49 +0200 <teaSlurper> in haskell, what's the .hi file?
2021-06-14 02:36:57 +0200 <teaSlurper> .hs, .hi, .o
2021-06-14 02:37:03 +0200 <teaSlurper> .o i guess is the output executable
2021-06-14 02:37:21 +0200 <c_wraith> .hi is "haskell interface". It contains information about a compiled module that isn't object code.
2021-06-14 02:37:33 +0200 <c_wraith> (which is what the .o stands for)
2021-06-14 02:37:52 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/56403798/what-are-the-hi-and-o-files-generated-by-ghc-on-linux
2021-06-14 02:37:53 +0200 <teaSlurper> .object?
2021-06-14 02:38:18 +0200 <c_wraith> It contains identifiers and types from the public interface of the module, as well as unfoldings for inlining and... potentially any amount of other stuff, as you can use annotations to add anything to an interface file
2021-06-14 02:38:33 +0200 <shachaf> I wonder whether it would make sense to just put that in the .o file.
2021-06-14 02:38:41 +0200fresheyeball(~fresheyeb@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 02:38:56 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-06-14 02:40:20 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-06-14 02:43:21 +0200pottsy(~pottsy@2400:4050:b560:3700:79bb:fcd:bcf3:fe7c) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-14 02:43:36 +0200pottsy(~pottsy@2400:4050:b560:3700:79bb:fcd:bcf3:fe7c)
2021-06-14 02:45:16 +0200mjs2600(~mjs2600@c-24-91-3-49.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 02:46:51 +0200Deide(~Deide@user/deide) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-06-14 02:46:58 +0200 <teaSlurper> i'm compiling a file within my cabal project that isn't the main.hs under exe/ folder, using ghc someFile.hs but it isn't creating the executable for that file it seems
2021-06-14 02:47:03 +0200 <geekosaur> shachaf, I think thta depends on how extensible the .o format is
2021-06-14 02:47:12 +0200 <geekosaur> which it isn't necessarily on some platforms
2021-06-14 02:48:25 +0200 <geekosaur> teaSlurper, it'd need a separate executable section with main-is:,I think
2021-06-14 02:51:09 +0200zopsi_zopsi
2021-06-14 02:51:26 +0200 <shachaf> Don't most object file formats support arbitrary sections of some sort?
2021-06-14 02:51:44 +0200 <shachaf> You also need to make it so they don't go into the final executable, I guess.
2021-06-14 02:52:53 +0200 <geekosaur> yes, they need to be non-loadable segments and you need to not link them into the final executable, the latter possibly requiring a custom linker script on ELF platforms
2021-06-14 02:53:00 +0200pragma-(~chaos@user/pragmatic-chaos)
2021-06-14 02:53:30 +0200 <geekosaur> which gets you into nasty per-platform stuff last I checked
2021-06-14 02:54:32 +0200 <shachaf> Well, it doesn't need to be on every platform, but it seems like a nice improvement wherever it's supported.
2021-06-14 02:54:36 +0200dy`(~dy@user/dy) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.x-git-124-15e2351d - https://znc.in)
2021-06-14 02:55:31 +0200dy(~dy@user/dy)
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2021-06-14 03:11:25 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-06-14 03:13:15 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 03:14:56 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.204) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-14 03:18:28 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@183.63.73.36)
2021-06-14 03:21:03 +0200waleee-cl(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 03:23:26 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(trottel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/prettydummguy/x-88029655) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2-rc1)
2021-06-14 03:24:58 +0200waleee-cl(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-06-14 03:28:18 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 03:30:38 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/2021-06-14-012806_588x533_scrot.png idk why they call it stack; seems more like a queue?
2021-06-14 03:33:15 +0200 <dsal> That story sounds tragic.
2021-06-14 03:33:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> lowkey hilarious that they tell you everything you need to know about how to use it before they get to the rationalization; upon which the next step is to remove it
2021-06-14 03:34:25 +0200MoonBarc(~MoonBarc@71.230.209.201)
2021-06-14 03:35:08 +0200MoonBarc(~MoonBarc@71.230.209.201) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 03:36:54 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53e1:ab00:45af:7b21:1d2b:3d2e) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 03:38:47 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fe:9900:952d:23a8:a21c:b122)
2021-06-14 03:41:17 +0200 <monochrom> Haha I think I understand. It is a stack because "Why Stack?" is near the bottom and the bottom is how to pop everything. >:)
2021-06-14 03:41:39 +0200waleee-cl(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 03:42:31 +0200 <shachaf> Man, it's a good thing I don't do Haskell these days, so I don't deal with all this nonsense.
2021-06-14 03:42:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230)
2021-06-14 03:43:28 +0200Guest21(~Guest21@172.92.73.93)
2021-06-14 03:45:17 +0200fresheyeball(~fresheyeb@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-06-14 03:45:25 +0200Guest21(~Guest21@172.92.73.93) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-14 03:45:45 +0200 <cdsmith> <DigitalKiwi "lowkey hilarious that they tell "> Makes more sense, perhaps, if you interpret "Why Stack?" more like... "Why, Stack, why?"
2021-06-14 03:46:25 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/releases/tag/v0.0.0-beta wow i totally thought it was a lot older than this for some reason
2021-06-14 03:46:55 +0200 <monochrom> I do tell my students how to (uninstall GHC and cabal after they're done in my course).
2021-06-14 03:47:33 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 03:47:38 +0200 <monochrom> s/'re done in/ finish/
2021-06-14 03:47:45 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 03:47:51 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (i've been a newb at haskell for longer than stack has been around...like...i remember cabal hell and being very mad it was not the package manager i wanted it to be ;p )
2021-06-14 03:47:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 03:48:20 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40)
2021-06-14 03:48:26 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:add0:1e4f:5044:d502)
2021-06-14 03:48:48 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (i've had far more problems with stack than i ever did with cabal at its worst)
2021-06-14 03:50:10 +0200 <monochrom> Oh, and in my Unix course, the time I explain fclose is right after I explain fopen.
2021-06-14 03:51:24 +0200 <monochrom> I learned from someone the nice philosophy that when you learn how to launch a program you also should learn how to stop it.
2021-06-14 03:51:42 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> "can't stop here this is vim country"
2021-06-14 03:52:05 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:add0:1e4f:5044:d502) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-14 03:52:44 +0200euandreh(~euandreh@2804:14c:33:9fe5:add0:1e4f:5044:d502)
2021-06-14 03:52:47 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i know something worse than not knowing how to close vim normally; not knowing how to close vim after you accidentally open an input stream
2021-06-14 03:53:08 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-14 03:53:25 +0200 <monochrom> It was also in the DOS days so every program had a different hotkey for exit so it actually took learning or at least being told. No menu to remind you nicely. Hell unsearchable in most cases even.
2021-06-14 03:53:57 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i can't close emacs if it doesn't have evil mode
2021-06-14 03:58:12 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.246) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-06-14 04:00:12 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 04:01:30 +0200jespada_(~jespada@90.254.242.55) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:03:39 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/2021-06-14-020310_595x109_scrot.png is this new?!
2021-06-14 04:04:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i've never seen it before; wanted for years
2021-06-14 04:04:39 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.242.55)
2021-06-14 04:04:47 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-14 04:05:05 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-06-14 04:05:57 +0200geekosaurwonders how far upstream it goes
2021-06-14 04:06:36 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.38) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:07:57 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-233.citykom.de)
2021-06-14 04:09:15 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:09:30 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/2021-06-14-020915_774x340_scrot.png not far
2021-06-14 04:10:37 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/Kiwi/Tiger-in-Haskell
2021-06-14 04:13:17 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.200.246)
2021-06-14 04:13:49 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-06-14 04:14:57 +0200abhixec_(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:15:30 +0200 <sm[m]> DigitalKiwi: tsk tsk you haven't read the fine manual!
2021-06-14 04:15:40 +0200aerona(~aerona@2600:6c54:4600:f300:dd2b:2b3b:fbbd:f67) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-14 04:16:28 +0200 <sm[m]> (stack's)
2021-06-14 04:16:47 +0200pfurla_(~pfurla@216.131.82.47) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:16:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.251)
2021-06-14 04:17:20 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-14 04:18:51 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i haven't read it all no; but i haven't not read it either lol
2021-06-14 04:20:34 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-06-14 04:21:41 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (for every hour that i spend complaining about/asking for help i've probably spent 4 hours more trying to figure it out myself ;( )
2021-06-14 04:21:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.251) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:22:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 04:22:49 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> *spends 3 days git bisecting nixpkgs, indicated commit is not possibly the source of the bug* "welp time to ask for help lolol"
2021-06-14 04:23:44 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (plasma5 bug)
2021-06-14 04:26:09 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> still don't know how to fix it; a month later i realized (found on haskell wiki) a workaround :(
2021-06-14 04:28:16 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Quit: LunarIRC Freenode)
2021-06-14 04:30:46 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-06-14 04:30:46 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (tungsten.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2021-06-14 04:30:46 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2021-06-14 04:40:34 +0200Ekho-Ekho
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2021-06-14 04:44:53 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21)
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2021-06-14 04:51:56 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.61)
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2021-06-14 05:03:06 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat)
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2021-06-14 05:32:22 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
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2021-06-14 05:38:07 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 05:38:58 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fe:9900:43c6:955a:a60e:3a0)
2021-06-14 05:40:15 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-06-14 05:41:01 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 05:46:54 +0200 <siraben> DigitalKiwi: bisecting nixpkgs is always fun :)
2021-06-14 05:52:22 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4)
2021-06-14 05:52:36 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> it's very high on my list of 'amazing things that i am glad i can do but also make me want to cry' which is why i use it so often
2021-06-14 05:54:28 +0200doublex__doublex
2021-06-14 05:55:41 +0200 <sm[m]> DigitalKiwi: ping me next time stack bugs you, maybe I can save you some time (for nix)
2021-06-14 05:55:43 +0200 <siraben> DigitalKiwi: bisect saved the day in https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/107358
2021-06-14 05:55:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-14 05:57:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/74830
2021-06-14 05:58:13 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/76625
2021-06-14 06:00:04 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> have also used it for finding bugs in kicad
2021-06-14 06:00:20 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (not even nix bugs in kicad but like kicad bugs)
2021-06-14 06:03:23 +0200 <eflister> hi, using an xml-conduit cursor i want to filter out nodes that have a child <LineString> -- i think i need to use one of the check* functions here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xml-conduit-1.9.1.1/docs/Text-XML-Cursor.html#g:4
2021-06-14 06:03:40 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.243) (Quit: alx741)
2021-06-14 06:03:51 +0200 <eflister> my guess is something like: check (\c -> "LineString" `notElem` (c $/ nameLocalName . elementName))
2021-06-14 06:04:40 +0200 <eflister> but that doesn't type check: Couldn't match type ‘T.Text’ with ‘[[Char]]’
2021-06-14 06:06:37 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-06-14 06:07:31 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.126)
2021-06-14 06:07:58 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 06:08:07 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (oh and if anyone is wondering; the bug i said that i haven't fixed is actually a completely different (though very rhymy, possibly regression) one)
2021-06-14 06:08:19 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-14 06:08:56 +0200sheepduck_(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-14 06:09:06 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 06:11:04 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> xmonad is supposed to be my window manager (xmonad+plasm5 session) but for some reason kwin decides that it should launch too and then coredumps and breaks plasma shell
2021-06-14 06:11:19 +0200hololeap(hololeap@user/hololeap)
2021-06-14 06:12:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.126) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 06:12:23 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> head -n1 ~/.config/plasma-workspace/env/set_window_manager.sh
2021-06-14 06:12:24 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> export KDEWM=/run/current-system/sw/bin/xmonad
2021-06-14 06:13:57 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> is the work around from the wiki (it shouldn't be needed; didn't used to be needed) the session manager is supposed to handle that
2021-06-14 06:18:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 06:19:33 +0200sekun(~sekun@180.190.222.37)
2021-06-14 06:20:35 +0200hexeme(~hexeme@ec2-54-188-57-39.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Changing host)
2021-06-14 06:20:35 +0200hexeme(~hexeme@user/hexeme)
2021-06-14 06:23:26 +0200 <eflister> anyone around that knows xml-conduit cursors?
2021-06-14 06:23:32 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.90)
2021-06-14 06:23:45 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.90) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 06:24:35 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> the reason that's a workaround and not solution is then you can't use the session chooser to, you know, actually choose to use kwin (rare that it's desired i know but it happens)
2021-06-14 06:28:48 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.90)
2021-06-14 06:29:19 +0200 <slack1256> Is there a standard pattern to organize code on IHaskell/Jupyter notebooks?
2021-06-14 06:29:41 +0200 <slack1256> I never thought I would say this but I miss the haskell module system...
2021-06-14 06:32:44 +0200reumeth(~reumeth@user/reumeth)
2021-06-14 06:39:52 +0200reumeth(~reumeth@user/reumeth) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 06:41:42 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 06:42:04 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.105)
2021-06-14 06:43:40 +0200beka(~beka@104.193.170-244.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 06:46:19 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.105) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 06:47:52 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@2a02:587:dc02:b00:98b0:cd42:bd6f:8295)
2021-06-14 06:53:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 07:00:46 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.227.90) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 07:02:01 +0200 <eflister> anyone around have time to help me w/ my xml-conduit cursor problem? :)
2021-06-14 07:05:09 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-06-14 07:06:46 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i was thinking maybe you could annotate it or pack/unpack it or maybe {-# LANGUAGE OverloadedStrings #-
2021-06-14 07:11:06 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: i don't think it's a string/text thing, i do have overloadedstrings on... i think it's that i don't see how to get at element names from inside a cursor.
2021-06-14 07:13:00 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-06-14 07:14:26 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> do you have a runnable code
2021-06-14 07:17:40 +0200 <eflister> i'll make a paste, it'll take a few
2021-06-14 07:20:03 +0200Obo(~roberto@h-46-59-103-134.A498.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-06-14 07:20:21 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.113)
2021-06-14 07:20:33 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i haven't used any conduit and am not very good but i'm bored and have time to swing the hammer
2021-06-14 07:25:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.113) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 07:28:02 +0200sheepduck_(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-14 07:28:39 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250)
2021-06-14 07:28:39 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250) (Changing host)
2021-06-14 07:28:39 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@user/v01d4lph4)
2021-06-14 07:28:40 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-06-14 07:31:30 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66)
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2021-06-14 07:45:58 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-14 07:47:58 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 07:50:35 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 07:50:53 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-06-14 07:52:30 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 07:55:47 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: awesome, thanks! here's the paste: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2Yr7Xo7w
2021-06-14 07:56:14 +0200 <eflister> i may have missed some imports, let me know if doesn't work. you'll need some packages (i annotated the imports)
2021-06-14 07:58:07 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.204)
2021-06-14 07:58:12 +0200 <eflister> a lot of the code is just for downloading and unzipping a .kmz, you can ignore that part. inside, it's just xml. the `elem` function is where i need to filter out nodes that have <LineString> children
2021-06-14 08:01:45 +0200wonko(~wjc@62.115.229.50)
2021-06-14 08:02:04 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: i missed some imports, here's updated paste: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/FxFOw6LO
2021-06-14 08:02:26 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-06-14 08:02:40 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun)
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2021-06-14 08:03:28 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.204) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 08:06:45 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-06-14 08:09:02 +0200beka(~beka@104.193.170-244.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
2021-06-14 08:09:44 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@ip72-203-188-10.tu.ok.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 08:09:54 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@ip72-203-188-10.tu.ok.cox.net)
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2021-06-14 08:12:53 +0200zaquest_zaquest
2021-06-14 08:19:25 +0200 <eflister> cursors are discussed here: https://www.yesodweb.com/book/xml#xml_cursor, and i think this is the only stackoverflow question (with xml-conduit's author's reply) that hints at how to use `check`: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51605604/how-to-check-on-nodes-content-in-text-xml-cursor
2021-06-14 08:21:00 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 08:21:45 +0200 <eflister> in another context, i was able to use `checkElement` to filter based on a node's attribute values, but i don't see how to look at a node's childrens' names...
2021-06-14 08:21:47 +0200 <eflister> checkElement (maybe False (not . T.isInfixOf "Spanish") . M.lookup "ows_Document" . X.elementAttributes)
2021-06-14 08:25:08 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-14 08:32:48 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4) (Quit: Client closed)
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2021-06-14 08:35:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.126)
2021-06-14 08:37:42 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:c6a2:6b31:b38d:d90c)
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2021-06-14 08:38:43 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
2021-06-14 08:39:02 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4)
2021-06-14 08:39:43 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: sorry, my irc client disconnected. did i miss anything?
2021-06-14 08:39:59 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.126) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 08:40:58 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 08:49:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 08:52:03 +0200rk04(~rk04@user/rajk)
2021-06-14 08:53:54 +0200 <Obo> eflister: You didn't, the last message was yours "checkElement (maybe False (not . T.isInfixOf "Spanish") . M.lookup "ows_Document" . X.elementAttributes) "
2021-06-14 08:57:18 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-06-14 08:59:13 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-06-14 09:00:20 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
2021-06-14 09:01:12 +0200yoctocell(~yoctocell@h87-96-130-155.cust.a3fiber.se)
2021-06-14 09:04:52 +0200 <nsilv> anyone know where to find a sort of tutorial for the tactic metaprogramming stuff in HLS/wingman? I'm very excited about it but i don't know how to use it at all and the command reference is not... "easy" enough for me
2021-06-14 09:05:35 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-06-14 09:07:21 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4)
2021-06-14 09:09:07 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-06-14 09:09:35 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
2021-06-14 09:11:41 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 09:11:57 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4)
2021-06-14 09:12:14 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 09:13:49 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 09:14:36 +0200rk04(~rk04@user/rajk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:16:12 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:3d39:470:d12f:3be6)
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2021-06-14 09:22:50 +0200berberman_(~berberman@user/berberman)
2021-06-14 09:23:08 +0200thyriaen(~thyriaen@45.178.75.13)
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2021-06-14 09:25:31 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-14 09:29:39 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> eflister: i haven't figured it out but i have turned it into an executable lolol https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/eflister.hs
2021-06-14 09:30:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 09:30:27 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211)
2021-06-14 09:31:25 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: sweet, does it run for ya? :)
2021-06-14 09:32:41 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:33:12 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fe:9900:43c6:955a:a60e:3a0) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:35:16 +0200NanoCoaster(~NanoCoast@p200300e127264d001d3a04d52b588e67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-06-14 09:35:29 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@port-92-193-146-235.dynamic.as20676.net)
2021-06-14 09:36:44 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://dpaste.com/HLNN5SGVU
2021-06-14 09:38:01 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:f900:b4f5:de89:c51f:a8f2)
2021-06-14 09:39:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://dpaste.com/9PMV5276F
2021-06-14 09:39:17 +0200 <eflister> nice, should have crashed after that last line w/ non-single entry for name or coordinates:
2021-06-14 09:39:22 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> not without issue ;(
2021-06-14 09:40:30 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@port-92-193-146-235.dynamic.as20676.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:40:33 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:42:51 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 09:42:54 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:f900:b4f5:de89:c51f:a8f2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:43:02 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> apc --stdin only catches stdin not stderr ;)
2021-06-14 09:43:25 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@188.26.30.39)
2021-06-14 09:43:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> ...or is that stdout ;(
2021-06-14 09:44:21 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@user/erutuon) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 09:44:23 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> alll i know is it's a pipe and pipes are not monads
2021-06-14 09:44:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.139)
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2021-06-14 10:22:40 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.242.55)
2021-06-14 10:22:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> 2>&1
2021-06-14 10:24:31 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
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2021-06-14 10:38:03 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) ()
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2021-06-14 11:02:23 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2021-06-14 11:02:42 +0200Natch(~natch@c-e070e255.014-297-73746f25.bbcust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 11:02:58 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
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2021-06-14 11:07:48 +0200Obo(~roberto@h-46-59-103-134.A498.priv.bahnhof.se) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-06-14 11:08:03 +0200Obo(~roberto@h-46-59-103-134.A498.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-06-14 11:10:29 +0200asm_asm
2021-06-14 11:10:36 +0200asm(~alexander@burner.asm89.io) (Changing host)
2021-06-14 11:10:36 +0200asm(~alexander@user/asm)
2021-06-14 11:11:47 +0200 <teaSlurper> i'm using a lib which has a function called note
2021-06-14 11:11:53 +0200mpt(~tom@2a02:908:1862:49e0::5) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 11:11:58 +0200 <teaSlurper> it takes 2 args
2021-06-14 11:12:40 +0200 <dminuoso> optics question, is there a way to (unsafely) set a fixed index into an optic, along the lines of `10 <<% ifolded`, which would set the index of each target to 10?
2021-06-14 11:12:58 +0200 <teaSlurper> duration (fraction) and a predefined type thing called Pitch (A,4)
2021-06-14 11:12:58 +0200 <dminuoso> (Im fully aware that this would let me create wrong traversals, I just need this for indexed folds)
2021-06-14 11:13:10 +0200Guest25(~Guest25@212.241.20.133)
2021-06-14 11:13:37 +0200 <teaSlurper> the function only works for me when i declare Pitch before hand with it's type
2021-06-14 11:13:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah I guess I can do: l <<% r = reindexed (const l) <% r
2021-06-14 11:14:02 +0200 <teaSlurper> it's like the note function or haskell can't infer that (A,4) is of Pitch type
2021-06-14 11:14:30 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2021-06-14 11:33:45 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.74)
2021-06-14 11:35:18 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-06-14 11:36:10 +0200jonathanclarke(~jonathanc@103.10.29.113) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 11:36:31 +0200 <dminuoso> teaSlurper: can you share the full code and error message?
2021-06-14 11:38:33 +0200chaosite(~chaosite@user/chaosite)
2021-06-14 11:38:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.74) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 11:39:50 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 11:44:46 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 11:45:41 +0200 <teaSlurper> sure, is there like a haskell editor online i can paste code too?
2021-06-14 11:45:52 +0200 <teaSlurper> @dminuoso
2021-06-14 11:45:52 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2021-06-14 11:45:59 +0200 <teaSlurper> dminuoso:
2021-06-14 11:47:58 +0200 <dminuoso> @where paste
2021-06-14 11:47:58 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2021-06-14 11:48:01 +0200jonathanclarke(~jonathanc@202.51.76.213)
2021-06-14 11:51:54 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-06-14 11:52:42 +0200 <kuribas> teaSlurper: why use a tuple for notes, instead of a datatype?
2021-06-14 11:53:13 +0200involans(~alex@cpc92718-cmbg20-2-0-cust157.5-4.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-14 11:56:38 +0200dustinm-(~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-06-14 12:02:00 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@183.63.73.36)
2021-06-14 12:02:07 +0200 <teaSlurper> dminuoso: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/impYIaVh
2021-06-14 12:02:17 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:02:29 +0200micro_(~micro@user/micro) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:02:36 +0200 <teaSlurper> kuribas: it's the lib i'm using called "Euterpea"
2021-06-14 12:02:59 +0200micro(~micro@user/micro)
2021-06-14 12:03:00 +0200 <teaSlurper> dminuoso: the first line of the mel when defined with primitives type made the rest work strangely
2021-06-14 12:03:16 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-06-14 12:03:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> teaSlurper: try adding a type signature to melInterpretation1
2021-06-14 12:03:40 +0200 <teaSlurper> ef 4 qn == note qn (Ef,4)
2021-06-14 12:03:42 +0200saucyfox(~saucyfox@user/saucyfox)
2021-06-14 12:03:43 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
2021-06-14 12:03:44 +0200saucyfox(~saucyfox@user/saucyfox) (The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-06-14 12:03:50 +0200 <teaSlurper> qn = 1/4
2021-06-14 12:04:44 +0200 <teaSlurper> tomsmeding: does haskell sometimes have trouble infering correct type?
2021-06-14 12:04:45 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 12:05:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> teaSlurper: well, yes, but only in complicated cases and this is probably not one
2021-06-14 12:05:30 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 12:05:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> but what having a type signature does help with, it making sure that you and the compiler agree on types of things
2021-06-14 12:05:45 +0200 <teaSlurper> i'll try adding type signature
2021-06-14 12:06:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> in case you don't agree, the type inferencer tends to give errors at different spots than where you expect them
2021-06-14 12:06:18 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:06:27 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2021-06-14 12:08:28 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@183.63.73.36)
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2021-06-14 12:09:25 +0200 <teaSlurper> tomsmeding: looks like you were right
2021-06-14 12:10:16 +0200 <teaSlurper> i'm using visual studio code with haskell language server and it recommended the wrong type signature by default so i had to figure out what the actual type signature should be
2021-06-14 12:10:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> teaSlurper: for my curiosity, what was the correct signature and what was the inferred signature?
2021-06-14 12:11:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.178)
2021-06-14 12:11:43 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2021-06-14 12:12:11 +0200dustinm(~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de)
2021-06-14 12:13:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:14:16 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-06-14 12:14:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 12:15:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.178) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:16:14 +0200 <teaSlurper> tomsmeding: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/elqUIhUb
2021-06-14 12:16:49 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 12:16:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> teaSlurper: ah right, that Any is ghc saying I have no idea what this should be
2021-06-14 12:17:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> had you replaced that Any with Octave, or equivalently Int, it should have worked
2021-06-14 12:17:46 +0200 <teaSlurper> ok cool, thx. i'm new to haskell so it's all a bit fuzzy at the mo, but i have a general idea
2021-06-14 12:18:00 +0200 <teaSlurper> oh cool
2021-06-14 12:18:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> because Pitch = (PitchClass, Octave)
2021-06-14 12:18:20 +0200 <teaSlurper> that does make sense
2021-06-14 12:18:27 +0200 <teaSlurper> have you used Euterpea?
2021-06-14 12:18:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> no, I just did https://github.com/Euterpea/Euterpea2/search?q=Pitch :p
2021-06-14 12:19:02 +0200 <teaSlurper> coolzies
2021-06-14 12:19:11 +0200 <teaSlurper> quick search
2021-06-14 12:20:13 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533)
2021-06-14 12:20:21 +0200 <teaSlurper> i'm learning haskell for my msc dissertation based on computer music, i hear haskell is used quite a bit in that field
2021-06-14 12:20:35 +0200 <teaSlurper> going through a haskell book called "school of music"
2021-06-14 12:20:51 +0200 <teaSlurper> to learn both music theory and haskell simultaneously
2021-06-14 12:20:57 +0200 <tomsmeding> cool stuff! I know of at least one other person using haskell for computer music, but I'm really not in that scene
2021-06-14 12:21:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> though I know both music and haskell, so perhaps I should change that :p
2021-06-14 12:21:35 +0200thyriaen(~thyriaen@45.178.75.13) (Read error: No route to host)
2021-06-14 12:21:42 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> teaSlurper: plz let me know how you like that one i've had it on my list for ages heh
2021-06-14 12:21:49 +0200 <teaSlurper> cool, fair play. i'll give myself rest of june to see how far i get, that worst case scenario i'll pivot to JavaScript and use webAudio
2021-06-14 12:22:22 +0200 <teaSlurper> DigitalKiwi: ye sure, on chapter 2 now
2021-06-14 12:22:38 +0200fendor_fendor
2021-06-14 12:23:31 +0200 <teaSlurper> lazy evaluation and infix operations and recursion seem useful for music composition, but these concepts are very new to me
2021-06-14 12:23:37 +0200 <teaSlurper> operators*
2021-06-14 12:23:57 +0200 <teaSlurper> can express things with less code in haskell i guess
2021-06-14 12:24:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> that tends to be true in general with haskell, for a surprising number of purposes
2021-06-14 12:24:44 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:25:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:25:05 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> there are some hear who don't even write code they merely import their libraries
2021-06-14 12:25:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> that's more like python, right?
2021-06-14 12:25:45 +0200 <teaSlurper> in js/java i guess a recursive melody would crash or stack overflow at runtime, i guess haskell's lazy evaluation is what stops it crashing?
2021-06-14 12:25:52 +0200tomsmeding. o O ( https://xkcd.com/353/ )
2021-06-14 12:26:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 12:26:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> teaSlurper: that sounds accurate enough
2021-06-14 12:26:46 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> it is said that edwardk can solve any problem with 1 line of code and a vast number of imports
2021-06-14 12:26:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> depending I guess on exactly what you mean with "recursive melody"
2021-06-14 12:27:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> DigitalKiwi: can that line include ;
2021-06-14 12:27:27 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'll allow it
2021-06-14 12:27:37 +0200 <teaSlurper> a function that just calls itself for ever adding more notes and then sending that to a function to play
2021-06-14 12:27:41 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:28:02 +0200 <teaSlurper> you don't have to specific an end point
2021-06-14 12:28:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> > let x = 1 : x in x
2021-06-14 12:28:06 +0200 <teaSlurper> specify*
2021-06-14 12:28:07 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1...
2021-06-14 12:28:53 +0200 <teaSlurper> cool
2021-06-14 12:29:34 +0200 <teaSlurper> i could define a recursive function that adds random notes to itself (an array) and then just that to a play function i guess
2021-06-14 12:29:44 +0200 <teaSlurper> just send that*
2021-06-14 12:29:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> s/array/list/, but yes
2021-06-14 12:29:48 +0200 <teaSlurper> or parse
2021-06-14 12:30:13 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://clrnd.com.ar/posts/2017-04-21-the-water-jug-problem-in-hedgehog.html
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2021-06-14 12:31:52 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5219:ab00:108a:2215:f051:17c7)
2021-06-14 12:33:16 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66) (Quit: juhp)
2021-06-14 12:33:23 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2021-06-14 12:35:10 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-06-14 12:36:06 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:36:49 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.21.98)
2021-06-14 12:36:54 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:37:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 12:38:06 +0200 <kuribas> would generics-eot be understandable by a beginner?
2021-06-14 12:38:10 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:38:20 +0200bpalmer(~user@user/bpalmer) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 12:38:26 +0200 <kuribas> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generics-eot-0.4.0.1/docs/Generics-Eot.html
2021-06-14 12:38:33 +0200bpalmer(~user@user/bpalmer)
2021-06-14 12:39:17 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 12:43:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:43:24 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.126)
2021-06-14 12:43:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 12:45:26 +0200pkkm2(~pkkm@dgs4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
2021-06-14 12:46:52 +0200pkkm2(~pkkm@dgs4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ()
2021-06-14 12:48:28 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.126) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:49:15 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 12:50:05 +0200Schrostfutz_(~Schrostfu@p5de88aa6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-06-14 12:50:31 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 12:50:38 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Hi, I saw a way to reverse the dot notation of function composition to make it a bit more readable, can someone remind me how that's done?
2021-06-14 12:51:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> :t Data.Function.(&)
2021-06-14 12:51:08 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-06-14 12:51:08 +0200 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Data.Function’
2021-06-14 12:51:08 +0200 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
2021-06-14 12:51:35 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.149.211)
2021-06-14 12:51:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> % import Data.Function
2021-06-14 12:51:36 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-06-14 12:51:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> % :t (&)
2021-06-14 12:51:41 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: a -> (a -> b) -> b
2021-06-14 12:51:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: that one?
2021-06-14 12:52:48 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: I highly recommend "just getting used to it" instead, though
2021-06-14 12:52:55 +0200peterhil(~peterhil@dsl-hkibng32-54f849-252.dhcp.inet.fi) (Quit: Must not waste too much time here...)
2021-06-14 12:53:05 +0200 <merijn> Or you will be unable to read >80% of haskell out there
2021-06-14 12:53:31 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: Yes, that one!
2021-06-14 12:53:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's the flipped version of ($) though, not of (.)
2021-06-14 12:53:57 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> merijn: I understand it and am used to it, but for long chains I still find it unwieldy
2021-06-14 12:54:12 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: The difference being its associativity, right?
2021-06-14 12:54:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> :t ($)
2021-06-14 12:54:23 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> a -> b
2021-06-14 12:54:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> :t (.)
2021-06-14 12:54:25 +0200 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
2021-06-14 12:54:27 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: One composes, the other does not
2021-06-14 12:54:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> apparently some libraries define a flipped version of (.) too but it's not nearly as common
2021-06-14 12:54:54 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Ah
2021-06-14 12:54:58 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t (>>>)
2021-06-14 12:54:59 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {k} {cat :: k -> k -> *} {a :: k} {b :: k} {c :: k}. Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c
2021-06-14 12:55:04 +0200juhp(~juhp@128.106.188.66)
2021-06-14 12:55:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> (and even (&) is reasonably uncommon)
2021-06-14 12:55:04 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: i.e. "f . g . h" can be refactored into "let x = f . g in x . h" always typechecks for any f/g/h
2021-06-14 12:55:08 +0200 <dminuoso> This is a (generalized) version of flip (.)
2021-06-14 12:55:17 +0200tomsmedingalways forgets the arrow stuff
2021-06-14 12:55:19 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: That does not hold for $ and &, making them more difficult to refactor
2021-06-14 12:55:27 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: That's Category :p
2021-06-14 12:55:33 +0200 <dminuoso> (>>>) is rather oncommon though
2021-06-14 12:55:41 +0200 <cstml> aren't Arrows (>>>) basically flipped (.)
2021-06-14 12:55:45 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: There's also a >>> from Arrow, but at this point best just forget Arrow exists
2021-06-14 12:55:50 +0200 <merijn> cstml: Yes
2021-06-14 12:55:51 +0200 <dminuoso> cstml: They are more general than flipped (.)
2021-06-14 12:56:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> merijn: it took a while before I realised that Data.Bifunctor also exports first and second
2021-06-14 12:56:30 +0200 <dminuoso> For `instance Category (->)` you have `(>>>) = flip (.)`
2021-06-14 12:56:33 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 12:56:38 +0200 <dminuoso> But Category has other instances too, so..
2021-06-14 12:56:58 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> dminuoso: That one also looks convenient
2021-06-14 12:57:54 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: The combination of Profunctor, Applicative, and Category pretty much completely obsolete Arrow and Bifunctor obsoletes the few combinators from Arrow that people use for non-arrowy things :p
2021-06-14 12:58:25 +0200 <dminuoso> Schrostfutz_: Id pick (.) for no reason other than visual symmetrich with function application. i.e. `(f . g) x = f (g x)` -- the relative order of variables dot not change.
2021-06-14 12:58:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Once you stick to a consistent style, it becomes easier for your brain to read intuitively too
2021-06-14 12:58:47 +0200 <tomsmeding> "dot not change" indeed
2021-06-14 12:59:02 +0200 <dminuoso> So many typos there. :(
2021-06-14 12:59:19 +0200 <cstml> reading the . dot as "after" really helps as well. So you read f . g as f "after" g
2021-06-14 12:59:34 +0200 <merijn> I use dminuoso's reading/parsing style, yeah
2021-06-14 12:59:38 +0200 <cstml> then it's easy to internalise
2021-06-14 12:59:48 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> I get that, but often times I find myself writing what would be pipelinens on the shell, so find ... | grep ... | sort ... | head, so I'm looking for something similar
2021-06-14 12:59:53 +0200azeem(~azeem@176.201.21.98) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 13:00:13 +0200 <merijn> mconcat + endo ;)
2021-06-14 13:00:28 +0200 <merijn> Although that only works for functions that all have the same type, I suppose
2021-06-14 13:00:31 +0200 <cstml> you can define your own `flip (.)` and then just use it
2021-06-14 13:00:32 +0200 <merijn> Sadly
2021-06-14 13:00:38 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-06-14 13:01:56 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:01:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Schrostfutz_: As it happens, for shell-type you have streaming. So with conduit you'd write .| just like that:
2021-06-14 13:02:11 +0200 <merijn> That depends on the kinda pipeline, though
2021-06-14 13:02:17 +0200 <merijn> That's mostly for more IO-y things
2021-06-14 13:02:23 +0200 <merijn> or monad-y things
2021-06-14 13:02:48 +0200 <dminuoso> And you also have (>=>) for a monadic version of (>>>) (and (<=<) for a monadic version of (.)/(<<<)
2021-06-14 13:03:18 +0200 <cstml> dminuoso: spot on. Exactly what I was going to write
2021-06-14 13:03:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Personally I'd just get used to this reverse style of (.) because it's so ubiquitous in Haskell..
2021-06-14 13:03:45 +0200 <dminuoso> And because of visual symmetry with application
2021-06-14 13:03:50 +0200 <dminuoso> Simplified refactoring
2021-06-14 13:04:02 +0200 <dminuoso> So many reasons to use (.), so little reasons to use (>>>) :)
2021-06-14 13:04:04 +0200 <cstml> It's also mathematical notation
2021-06-14 13:04:21 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:04:24 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Maybe that's also part of the reason why it annoys me: with monads I write code in the reverse order as I do regular functions so I'd want to have a consistent way
2021-06-14 13:04:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Reverse order?
2021-06-14 13:04:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh you mean with >>=?
2021-06-14 13:04:51 +0200 <dminuoso> You can use =<< too if you prefer.
2021-06-14 13:05:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> always an answer :p
2021-06-14 13:05:30 +0200 <dminuoso> gnidemsmot, doing things the wrong way around is not an option!
2021-06-14 13:06:13 +0200swistak(~swistak@185.21.216.141)
2021-06-14 13:06:14 +0200tomsmedingwas confused for too long by that
2021-06-14 13:06:25 +0200tomsmedingadds that to my highlight list
2021-06-14 13:07:26 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> dminuoso: but code commonly is written using >>=, so then I'd find myself again using a style different from anyone else\
2021-06-14 13:08:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: code with more than one >>= is commonly written in do-notation, which is similar to let-bindings
2021-06-14 13:08:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> (in structure)
2021-06-14 13:08:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> hm I guess unless it's really a pipeline
2021-06-14 13:08:55 +0200 <dminuoso> And then, visually, data flows from right to left.
2021-06-14 13:09:13 +0200 <dminuoso> Though mmm. With applicative style its different
2021-06-14 13:09:18 +0200 <dminuoso> Or is it?
2021-06-14 13:09:24 +0200 <dminuoso> (,) <$> foo <*> bar
2021-06-14 13:09:29 +0200 <tomsmeding> applicative is directionless
2021-06-14 13:09:38 +0200 <dminuoso> is it really?
2021-06-14 13:09:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> which is the entire point, right?
2021-06-14 13:09:45 +0200rusua(uid124537@id-124537.highgate.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-14 13:09:58 +0200 <dminuoso> for all instances which also have monad, there's an inherent direction
2021-06-14 13:09:58 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> It
2021-06-14 13:10:08 +0200 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: consider attoparsec/megaparsec parsers.
2021-06-14 13:10:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> hm true
2021-06-14 13:10:17 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> It's bidirectional and matches the visual direction
2021-06-14 13:10:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-14 13:10:28 +0200 <jophish> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Applicative-Backwards.html
2021-06-14 13:10:41 +0200 <dminuoso> jophish: that's a cute one :)
2021-06-14 13:10:55 +0200 <dminuoso> % getConst . forwards . traverse (Backwards . Const) $ ["foo", "bar", "quux"]
2021-06-14 13:10:56 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:29:12: error: Variable not in scope: forwards :: f0 [b1] -> Const c b2; <interactive>:29:33: error:; * Data constructor not in scope: Backwards :: Const String b0 -> f0 b1; * Perhaps you meant variable `backwards' (imported from Control.Lens)
2021-06-14 13:10:56 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: It's not, though
2021-06-14 13:11:08 +0200tomsmedingwants Backwards to also be a monad
2021-06-14 13:11:13 +0200 <dminuoso> % getConst . forwards . traverse (Backwards . Const) $ ["foo", "bar", "quux"]
2021-06-14 13:11:14 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: "quuxbarfoo"
2021-06-14 13:11:26 +0200 <merijn> tomsmeding: The true difference is "effects can't depend on results of previous actions/effects)
2021-06-14 13:11:41 +0200 <merijn> And of course, then there's Selective as funky hybrid
2021-06-14 13:12:01 +0200 <dminuoso> There are combinators that get rid of direction, like permutation parsers.
2021-06-14 13:12:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Those dont have an obvious effect order anymore
2021-06-14 13:13:11 +0200 <dminuoso> In applicative style I rarely find myself using (<<), but that's probably because of things like (<*) and (*>)
2021-06-14 13:13:22 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:13:23 +0200 <dminuoso> So the applicative interface nudges you towards left-to-right style
2021-06-14 13:13:49 +0200 <dminuoso> Wait. (<<) is not even a thing haha
2021-06-14 13:14:03 +0200spirgel(spirgel@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/spirgel)
2021-06-14 13:14:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> would (<<) sequence the left effect first or the right effect first?
2021-06-14 13:14:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> the former is consistent with (<*), the latter is consistent with (=<<)
2021-06-14 13:14:58 +0200 <dminuoso> The latter
2021-06-14 13:15:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> maybe it doesn't exist because it would cause confusion
2021-06-14 13:15:45 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 13:15:46 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1247639264172670982?s=20
2021-06-14 13:15:59 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@31.154.96.164)
2021-06-14 13:17:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> put that on a cake and give it to a haskeller on their birthday, and watch the flurry of emotions on their face
2021-06-14 13:17:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> throw back to that time i made stickers for everyone at zurihac
2021-06-14 13:18:51 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:19:45 +0200bpalmer`(~user@user/bpalmer)
2021-06-14 13:19:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (you know, famously, the one that wasn't canceled and everyone attended)
2021-06-14 13:20:27 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:20:30 +0200bpalmer(~user@user/bpalmer) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by bpalmer`)))
2021-06-14 13:20:30 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-06-14 13:20:38 +0200bpalmer`bpalmer
2021-06-14 13:20:46 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-14 13:20:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:20:53 +0200Taneb(~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0)
2021-06-14 13:21:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> where they mirrored?
2021-06-14 13:22:16 +0200bpalmer(~user@user/bpalmer) ()
2021-06-14 13:25:15 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 13:25:22 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:26:03 +0200xprlgjf(~gavin@60.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
2021-06-14 13:26:05 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-06-14 13:26:20 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-06-14 13:27:02 +0200Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@user/feuermagier) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:27:12 +0200NanoCoasterNanoC
2021-06-14 13:27:21 +0200yd502(~yd502@2409:891e:320:209e:b827:1a6a:79a7:5844)
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2021-06-14 13:28:05 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-06-14 13:29:44 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> So I now managed to write my function that I was trying to write (summing up intervals, accounting for potential overlap). I'm not happy with the fold though, I feel like there must be an easier way that I have missed: http://sprunge.us/tK5TIA Can any of you think of something?
2021-06-14 13:29:51 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm sure there was some mirroring, striping, maybe even some good ol' JBOD arrays involved in the presentation of the entirely online event
2021-06-14 13:30:26 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Also, when I try to apply the custom 'fst' to the result of the computation, I get a type mismatch error I don't understand
2021-06-14 13:30:34 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://zfoh.ch/zurihac2020/
2021-06-14 13:31:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: the result of what computation exactly? what's the error?
2021-06-14 13:31:36 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: You defined a new fst that works on tuple of 3 elements
2021-06-14 13:31:47 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: But the list you feed to sortOn has only 2 elements
2021-06-14 13:32:37 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://myfriendshate.me/files/2020-02-04-073632_2880x1800_scrot.png
2021-06-14 13:32:47 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: Unrelated tip: I'd ditch the if/then/else and use guards for f
2021-06-14 13:32:55 +0200 <merijn> Will be much more readable
2021-06-14 13:33:04 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@31.154.96.164) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 13:33:08 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: http://sprunge.us/LzsD3K
2021-06-14 13:33:08 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-06-14 13:33:26 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> merijn: But the 'f' I defined converts that into a triple
2021-06-14 13:33:36 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@31.154.96.164)
2021-06-14 13:33:41 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> If I execute the code as pasted, I get (3, 1, 0) as a result
2021-06-14 13:33:42 +0200 <merijn> Schrostfutz_: You're not applying f to anything before sortOn, though?
2021-06-14 13:33:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: merijn is right, you're only running the f after the sortOn
2021-06-14 13:34:00 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> Hecate and clementd requested them before covid lol
2021-06-14 13:34:30 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Yeah, I only do it after sortOn, such that the interval enter/leave events are orderered by position
2021-06-14 13:34:36 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Ah!
2021-06-14 13:34:47 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2021-06-14 13:35:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: is that 'occupancy == 1' check correct? Shouldn't it be 'occupancy >= 1'?
2021-06-14 13:35:05 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://myfriendshate.me/files/2020-02-08-020023_2880x1800_scrot.png
2021-06-14 13:35:31 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> I redefine fst to work on triples, but I actually also use the regular fst, so renaming it to fst3 solved the second issue.
2021-06-14 13:35:45 +0200 <tomsmeding> DigitalKiwi: that λ is weird
2021-06-14 13:35:47 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> puffnfresh got that one on a his wall
2021-06-14 13:36:02 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> tomsmeding: it's the nixos lambda
2021-06-14 13:36:16 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: No, because when the occupancy is greater, I'd be overwriting the first time the interval was entered
2021-06-14 13:36:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> oh right
2021-06-14 13:37:02 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1269321790016364544?s=20
2021-06-14 13:37:36 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:37:49 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 13:38:22 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2021-06-14 13:38:22 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-06-14 13:38:42 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> But the way I did it feels weird, I'm summing and filtering overlap in the same fold. I'd rather filter first and create a non-overlapping interval. Is there a generalized version of scanl that doesn't require both lists to be the same size?
2021-06-14 13:38:59 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-06-14 13:39:59 +0200 <nilof> oh god damn it pairing heaps are cool
2021-06-14 13:40:31 +0200 <nilof> Since they have O(1) merging
2021-06-14 13:40:41 +0200 <nilof> and are persistent
2021-06-14 13:41:03 +0200 <nilof> you can do exponentiation by squaring to make a priority queue where elements repeat n times, in log(n) types
2021-06-14 13:41:09 +0200 <nilof> *log(n) time
2021-06-14 13:41:11 +0200 <nilof> and space
2021-06-14 13:41:43 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@31.154.96.164) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:42:00 +0200 <nilof> and doing exponentiation by squaring also naturally produces a reasonably balanced heap so that it doesn't produce a too-unbalanced heap
2021-06-14 13:44:17 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533)
2021-06-14 13:44:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> Schrostfutz_: you might be able to use unfoldr from Data.List, with some fiddling
2021-06-14 13:44:57 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.149.211) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 13:46:58 +0200 <nilof> I think heapsorting a repeated list with them also becomes O(nlog(log(N)) where N is the number of repetitions?
2021-06-14 13:49:12 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i don't remember how big it was (it's ~A3 or 12"x16") but it cost almost $50 dollars to ship and took 2 months to get to tasmania so presumably it was enormous
2021-06-14 13:49:16 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:49:25 +0200argento(~argent0@168-227-96-51.ptr.westnet.com.ar)
2021-06-14 13:50:22 +0200Topsi(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-094-176.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-06-14 13:50:35 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@147.161.9.212)
2021-06-14 13:50:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.191)
2021-06-14 13:50:45 +0200Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-06-14 13:51:23 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-14 13:51:25 +0200yoctocell(~yoctocell@h87-96-130-155.cust.a3fiber.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 13:51:34 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: Thanks, I'll look into that
2021-06-14 13:51:51 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5219:ab00:108a:2215:f051:17c7) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:52:41 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> I just found a solution to the problem that seems fancy, but I don't really understand: http://sprunge.us/Di6qVI
2021-06-14 13:53:11 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:521d:b00:682b:ce6c:b74:cd5b)
2021-06-14 13:53:14 +0200 <dminuoso> What is `other-extensions` used for in cabal packages?
2021-06-14 13:54:01 +0200kayprish(~kayprish@cable-188-2-229-172.dynamic.sbb.rs)
2021-06-14 13:55:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.191) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:56:04 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> .glirclogs/#haskell/2019-04-11.log:[21:26:23] <glguy> other-extensions just means you want to check at configure time that those extensions are supported
2021-06-14 13:56:14 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:57:07 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Noting all extensions used
2021-06-14 13:57:16 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: is this used by the solver?
2021-06-14 13:57:20 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Not currently
2021-06-14 13:57:49 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: But it could be used to detect impossible combinations of GHC and extensions, for example
2021-06-14 13:58:25 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: So at best, other-extensions currently just saves the user some compilation time to issue a compatibility error before compiling the respective module?
2021-06-14 13:58:26 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 13:58:34 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> .glirclogs/freenode/#haskell/2020-10-18.log:[17:14:55] <c_wraith> ah, yes. other-extensions is purely documentation. I don't even know why it's there, really. If there were compilers other than GHC practically available, it might matter...
2021-06-14 13:58:34 +0200 <dminuoso> (potentially with a nicer error)
2021-06-14 13:58:36 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> .glirclogs/freenode/#haskell/2020-10-18.log:[17:17:43] <monochrom> Another is as in the user guide "In Cabal-1.24 the dependency solver will use [other-extensions] and default-extensions information"
2021-06-14 13:59:00 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah mm
2021-06-14 13:59:03 +0200 <dminuoso> So it's used in the solver after all
2021-06-14 13:59:18 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 13:59:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Lets see which cabal-install uses Cabal-1.24
2021-06-14 13:59:48 +0200 <dminuoso> Seems like Cabal and cabal-install use the same versioning scheme
2021-06-14 14:00:49 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Also, you should just have correct metadata on your packages >.>
2021-06-14 14:01:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm not sure but i think they might be related
2021-06-14 14:01:46 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: Sure, it's why Im asking what this is about in the first place.
2021-06-14 14:01:57 +0200 <dminuoso> It's hard to write "correct metadata" when the semantics arent even clear
2021-06-14 14:02:06 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 14:04:53 +0200 <cdsmith> Seems like over the last 10 years there's been a parade of different answers for how to throw and catch exceptions in MTL-style classes (MonadPeel, MonadBaseControl, blah, blah, blah). Is there a consensus for the right way to do it now?
2021-06-14 14:05:31 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: How are they not clear? The docs say: " list of Haskell extensions used by some (but not necessarily all) modules."
2021-06-14 14:05:43 +0200jneira(~jneira_@166.red-81-39-172.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:05:45 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: A note what this is even used for would be helpful.
2021-06-14 14:05:59 +0200 <dminuoso> This note about "some but not necessarily all" makes me really wonder why I should bother at all
2021-06-14 14:06:00 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: edwardk's exceptions package
2021-06-14 14:06:17 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: It means that you should list extensions that aren't used in *every* module too
2021-06-14 14:06:21 +0200 <dminuoso> When I add nothing to it, then I seem to satisfy the "some but not necessariy all" requirement, and its correct metadata, no?
2021-06-14 14:06:23 +0200 <dminuoso> ;)
2021-06-14 14:06:34 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: "some, not all" refers to "which modules use the extension"
2021-06-14 14:06:41 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Not too which extensions to list
2021-06-14 14:06:48 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> they're not enabled like they are in default-extensions
2021-06-14 14:07:10 +0200 <cdsmith> <merijn "Chris Smith: edwardk's exception"> Cool. Is it fair to say that modern Haskell code is all using that? Or are there other options I'd also need to support?
2021-06-14 14:07:24 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: If an extension used by some (i.e. more than 0) modules, it should be listed, even if its not used by *all* modules
2021-06-14 14:07:43 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.149.211)
2021-06-14 14:07:45 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: I don't think there's a single thing supported by "all modern Haskell code"
2021-06-14 14:07:51 +0200 <dminuoso> It's wishful thinking to ask that cabal-install told me this, right?
2021-06-14 14:08:10 +0200 <merijn> How should it tell you that, though?
2021-06-14 14:09:02 +0200 <cdsmith> I'm writing a package that exports a monad transformer, and it's important that it work with most exception-heavy code. So I guess I need a list, rather than one answer, then?
2021-06-14 14:09:33 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: tbh, I'd say supporting anything other than exceptions is doomed anyway
2021-06-14 14:10:00 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: MonadBaseControl is a nightmare. In the past decade I've never even heard of MonadPeel, tbh
2021-06-14 14:10:02 +0200 <[exa]> cdsmith: "mechanism not policy" -- export tools so that everyone can make their instances easily
2021-06-14 14:10:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> if you write something and it works with edwardk code and not someone else good chance you did the right way ;D
2021-06-14 14:10:19 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: unliftio-core is another option
2021-06-14 14:10:41 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: I'd say support unliftio-core and exceptions and anything else is somebody else's problem
2021-06-14 14:11:10 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:11:20 +0200 <cdsmith> <merijn "Chris Smith: I'd say support unl"> Great. This sounds like the answer I was looking for. Much appreciated
2021-06-14 14:11:29 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-06-14 14:11:48 +0200srk(~sorki@user/srk)
2021-06-14 14:11:52 +0200 <merijn> cdsmith: MonadUnliftIO only works if your transformer is, effectively, a variation of ReaderT, though
2021-06-14 14:13:40 +0200 <cdsmith> <merijn "Chris Smith: MonadUnliftIO only "> That's fine. It's currently a StateT, but I can make it a ReaderT (MVar ...) I need to anyway, because I need to add multithreading support.
2021-06-14 14:15:17 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-14 14:16:33 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:18:04 +0200 <teaSlurper> when you have something of 2 types or a space between them, what does that mean?
2021-06-14 14:18:17 +0200 <teaSlurper> thing :: x y
2021-06-14 14:18:32 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 14:18:42 +0200 <siers> teaSlurper, those are higher order types. that means that the definition of x uses y
2021-06-14 14:18:46 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-06-14 14:19:04 +0200 <teaSlurper> ahh ok
2021-06-14 14:19:07 +0200 <teaSlurper> thx
2021-06-14 14:19:12 +0200 <teaSlurper> siers:
2021-06-14 14:19:15 +0200 <siers> (tehnically it may decide not to use it,) but it has it as an argument.
2021-06-14 14:19:28 +0200 <siers> just like regular functions have arguments
2021-06-14 14:20:07 +0200 <[exa]> teaSlurper: you may imagine x~Maybe and y~Int; giving `thing :: Maybe Int`
2021-06-14 14:20:48 +0200 <teaSlurper> ok cheers
2021-06-14 14:20:49 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
2021-06-14 14:22:54 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2021-06-14 14:24:43 +0200Xnuk(~xnuk@vultr.xnu.kr) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-06-14 14:25:01 +0200Xnuk(~xnuk@45.76.202.58)
2021-06-14 14:26:52 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-06-14 14:27:02 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-06-14 14:29:05 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181)
2021-06-14 14:29:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.191)
2021-06-14 14:31:11 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke)
2021-06-14 14:31:37 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:31:45 +0200yd502(~yd502@2409:891e:320:209e:b827:1a6a:79a7:5844) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:31:52 +0200waleee-cl(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-06-14 14:31:56 +0200 <maerwald> how does one develop base?
2021-06-14 14:32:22 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: You mean patches for base?
2021-06-14 14:32:32 +0200 <maerwald> yes... like... even build it
2021-06-14 14:32:53 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: 90% of people probably just build it as part of GHC checkout
2021-06-14 14:32:58 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533)
2021-06-14 14:33:15 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: In theory base is separately buildable, because it was shared by GHC, Hugs, and some other now defunct compiler
2021-06-14 14:33:16 +0200 <maerwald> so I have to compile the entirety of GHC to test base patches?
2021-06-14 14:33:47 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Once you build GHC once you only have to rebuild libraries. It might be possible to *only* build base, but that's probably a question better suited to #ghc
2021-06-14 14:34:30 +0200 <merijn> I was just saying that most people probably build it as part of GHC to test things, not that it's required too (because I don't know, tbh)
2021-06-14 14:34:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.191) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:37:00 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:37:22 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-06-14 14:37:48 +0200 <nsilv> mmh... after updating HLS to the latest version for some reason now it segfaults lol
2021-06-14 14:39:51 +0200 <maerwald> nsilv: platform?
2021-06-14 14:40:33 +0200 <nsilv> maerwald: fedora on Windows via WSL2
2021-06-14 14:40:41 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-06-14 14:43:00 +0200flipchan(~filip@user/flipchan)
2021-06-14 14:44:17 +0200 <Hecate> nsilv: welcome to the club lol
2021-06-14 14:44:26 +0200 <nsilv> might be an issue on my machine maybe? i'm using nix for the project and it only segfaults in a nix shell
2021-06-14 14:44:29 +0200 <flipchan> Hi all haskell devs :) Me and a friend just started a haskell job board in order to help out people that lost there job due to covid-19, check it out at https://haskell.careers
2021-06-14 14:45:25 +0200pottsy(~pottsy@2400:4050:b560:3700:79bb:fcd:bcf3:fe7c) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-06-14 14:45:44 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@ip72-203-188-10.tu.ok.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:46:00 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2607:fb90:96d4:b2db:6767:8423:197d:e850)
2021-06-14 14:46:19 +0200larryba(~bc817c21@217.29.117.252)
2021-06-14 14:46:24 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 14:46:38 +0200 <larryba> hi. some of the functions in System.Directory don't work with windows extended-length paths. getDirectoryContents "\\\\?\\C:\\" works, but doesDirectoryExist "\\\\?\\C:\\" does not, it returns False
2021-06-14 14:47:35 +0200ukari(~ukari@user/ukari)
2021-06-14 14:48:22 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 14:48:50 +0200 <nsilv> I guess i'll temporarily turn off the nix stuff on my editor
2021-06-14 14:50:14 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> build base? you mean install something with haskell.nix but don't configure cachix and build 3 of them?
2021-06-14 14:50:30 +0200 <maerwald> nix?
2021-06-14 14:50:42 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:521d:b00:682b:ce6c:b74:cd5b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 14:50:55 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://input-output-hk.github.io/haskell.nix/tutorials/getting-started/#setting-up-the-binary-cache
2021-06-14 14:51:08 +0200 <maerwald> was that in reponse to me?
2021-06-14 14:51:37 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 14:51:38 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> it was mostly in response to merijn (my original reply was like "i
2021-06-14 14:51:57 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> it was mostly in response to merijn (my original reply was like "i'd argue 90% of people who build base forgot to enable cachix"
2021-06-14 14:52:22 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:521d:d300:6d92:b3ef:1f93:a591)
2021-06-14 14:53:02 +0200 <janus> flipchan: why should i advertise on your platform on not in Haskell Weekly?
2021-06-14 14:53:03 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> because why else would anyone build base unless they were forced to lol
2021-06-14 14:53:24 +0200 <boxscape> DigitalKiwi I'm fairly sure base isn't built even if you don't enable cachix
2021-06-14 14:53:25 +0200 <maerwald> DigitalKiwi: did you read the conversation?
2021-06-14 14:53:45 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> yes
2021-06-14 14:53:54 +0200 <merijn> DigitalKiwi: It was talking about developing/hacking on base...
2021-06-14 14:53:56 +0200 <maerwald> then I have no idea why you would bring up nix
2021-06-14 14:54:04 +0200 <merijn> DigitalKiwi: How would you ever hack on base without compiling base...
2021-06-14 14:54:27 +0200 <merijn> That makes no sense
2021-06-14 14:54:48 +0200 <maerwald> larryba: Imma try it
2021-06-14 14:55:12 +0200 <flipchan> janus: yeah, that would be a good idea, ty
2021-06-14 14:55:17 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> which is why i changed my original reply to not mention the 90% because the premise of that joke is more shaky
2021-06-14 14:55:26 +0200 <flipchan> janus: sorry, miss read it
2021-06-14 14:55:37 +0200 <larryba> maerwald, thanks. I'm using a rather old ghc, so perhaps it was fixed in future versions
2021-06-14 14:55:45 +0200 <flipchan> well this is meant to be a collection of the latest haskell jobs
2021-06-14 14:57:33 +0200 <maerwald> larryba: `doesDirectoryExist` works for me
2021-06-14 14:57:33 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> the premise for that would be that more people build base accidentally because of haskell.nix than build it intentionally because they want to hack on it. which i don't have enough data to suggest is or is not more likely ;p
2021-06-14 14:57:50 +0200 <larryba> maerwald, so it returns True? what ghc version?
2021-06-14 14:58:00 +0200 <maerwald> 8.10.5
2021-06-14 14:58:06 +0200 <maerwald> yes, True
2021-06-14 14:58:20 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-06-14 14:58:38 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-06-14 14:58:51 +0200 <larryba> nice, so they fixed it. I'm using 8.8.4
2021-06-14 14:58:51 +0200 <janus> flipchan: if i advertise with you, how long does the post stay up?
2021-06-14 14:59:11 +0200 <janus> flipchan: it only says the time, but not the duration
2021-06-14 14:59:12 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@147.161.9.212) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 14:59:20 +0200 <merijn> doesDirectoryExist is a race condition waiting to happen :p
2021-06-14 14:59:44 +0200 <maerwald> merijn: on C:\?
2021-06-14 14:59:51 +0200maerwaldblinks
2021-06-14 14:59:53 +0200 <Taneb> Most IO is a race condition waiting to appen
2021-06-14 15:00:00 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> for me anyway the number of times i have compiled ghc is hundreds the number of times i have "wanted" to is probably zero
2021-06-14 15:00:01 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-06-14 15:00:02 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: On anything
2021-06-14 15:00:07 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: C:\ *can* disappear
2021-06-14 15:00:11 +0200 <maerwald> yeah sure...
2021-06-14 15:00:20 +0200paolino(~paolo@84.33.156.246)
2021-06-14 15:00:26 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Windows doesn't require an install on C: and for several years mine was on a different letter
2021-06-14 15:00:27 +0200 <maerwald> actually no, it can't I think
2021-06-14 15:00:49 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Your system filesystem probably can't disappear, no
2021-06-14 15:00:50 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2607:fb90:96d4:b2db:6767:8423:197d:e850) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:00:54 +0200 <maerwald> you can't mess with the base device where your windews files are on
2021-06-14 15:00:56 +0200 <maerwald> it's locked
2021-06-14 15:00:59 +0200 <merijn> But there's no reason to assume C:\ will be system
2021-06-14 15:01:02 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.243)
2021-06-14 15:01:03 +0200 <maerwald> sure
2021-06-14 15:01:06 +0200 <maerwald> but that's not a race
2021-06-14 15:01:25 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: My point is: If C:\ is not system, but, say, a USB drive it can just disappear
2021-06-14 15:01:27 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-06-14 15:01:43 +0200 <maerwald> also depends
2021-06-14 15:01:54 +0200 <maerwald> your cat might lie on the stick
2021-06-14 15:02:01 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@184.179.34.210)
2021-06-14 15:02:21 +0200mikolaj_(~mikon@duch.mimuw.edu.pl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:02:29 +0200mikolaj_(~mikon@duch.mimuw.edu.pl)
2021-06-14 15:02:33 +0200paolinoZ(~paolo@84.33.156.246)
2021-06-14 15:02:44 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> nsilv: Hecate i got nixos on wsl 2 last night :D
2021-06-14 15:04:03 +0200 <larryba> how do I write this properly? defaultIfException :: forall e. Exception e => IO a -> IO a -> IO a
2021-06-14 15:04:11 +0200 <larryba> it says "Not in scope: type variable �a�"
2021-06-14 15:04:30 +0200 <maerwald> bring it in scope!
2021-06-14 15:04:43 +0200 <larryba> what's the syntax for second forall?
2021-06-14 15:04:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> my windows 10 laptop had been stuck on a version of windows that didn't have wsl 2 (and could't update; it was stuck on installing updates at 61% for a year) i finally nuked it
2021-06-14 15:05:01 +0200 <maerwald> forall takes multiple identifiers
2021-06-14 15:05:05 +0200 <maerwald> separated by whitespace
2021-06-14 15:05:32 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:06:00 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/Trundle/NixOS-WSL
2021-06-14 15:06:35 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:07:32 +0200 <siers> are haskell's profunctors anything like category theory's?
2021-06-14 15:08:06 +0200 <larryba> ok this worked defaultIfException :: forall a e. Exception e => IO a -> IO a -> IO a
2021-06-14 15:08:10 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 15:08:59 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> nsilv: earlier when i was looking at that code of eflister emacs kept completely freezing i may remember seeing something about HLS being able to casue that...
2021-06-14 15:09:19 +0200 <nshepperd2> you probably want to put the e first if you're planning to use TypeApplications to choose the type of exception
2021-06-14 15:09:30 +0200 <larryba> nshepperd2, yeah, I just figured that out!
2021-06-14 15:10:04 +0200 <larryba> will this give me considerable performance hit, when walking the directory tree? getDirectoryContentsSafe path = defaultIfException @SomeException (pure []) (getDirectoryContents path)
2021-06-14 15:10:38 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.152)
2021-06-14 15:10:42 +0200 <larryba> compared to checking with doesDirectoryExist first, before calling getDirectoryContents
2021-06-14 15:11:06 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://mostlyabsurd.com/files/2021-06-14-131041_968x822_scrot.png apparently i've even searched it before ;_;
2021-06-14 15:12:40 +0200 <larryba> I'll call it on every file in a directory tree
2021-06-14 15:15:14 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.152) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:15:26 +0200 <nshepperd2> larryba: no, if anything it will be faster
2021-06-14 15:15:27 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:15:59 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:16:03 +0200 <nshepperd2> probably
2021-06-14 15:16:12 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 15:16:33 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 15:16:40 +0200argento(~argent0@168-227-96-51.ptr.westnet.com.ar) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:16:47 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
2021-06-14 15:17:59 +0200 <dminuoso> larryba: Are you sure you dont want `forall a e. Exception e => proxy e -> IO a -> IO a -> IO a`?
2021-06-14 15:18:09 +0200 <dminuoso> I find TypeApplications as public API to be quite offending
2021-06-14 15:18:18 +0200fluffyballoon(~fluffybal@2620:72:0:6480::10f7)
2021-06-14 15:18:26 +0200 <merijn> Word
2021-06-14 15:18:28 +0200 <larryba> how would the call look?
2021-06-14 15:18:44 +0200 <dminuoso> oh, drop the foralls
2021-06-14 15:18:47 +0200 <dminuoso> `Exception e => proxy e -> IO a -> IO a -> IO a` of course :)
2021-06-14 15:18:48 +0200 <merijn> TypeApplications is for people who love breaking APIs >.>
2021-06-14 15:19:14 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47)
2021-06-14 15:22:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> flipchan: what should compel me to choose to spend money on haskell.careers when i can instead use Hecate' matchmaker for free
2021-06-14 15:23:12 +0200 <nshepperd2> for a function whose raisin d'etre is to be a thin convenience wrapper around 'catch' i think TypeApplications is fine
2021-06-14 15:23:23 +0200 <Hecate> (*raison) (krkrkrkr)
2021-06-14 15:23:32 +0200 <Hecate> am grape! <- raisin d'être
2021-06-14 15:23:33 +0200 <nshepperd2> raisins only
2021-06-14 15:24:32 +0200 <nshepperd2> if you're gonna have a proxy argument you might as well just 'catch' directly
2021-06-14 15:24:44 +0200 <Hecate> or just use type applications
2021-06-14 15:24:51 +0200 <nshepperd2> since at least 'catch' makes it impossible to mix the arguments up
2021-06-14 15:25:41 +0200 <nshepperd2> from a convenience POV, `forall e a. Exception e => a -> IO a -> IO a` is probably optimal
2021-06-14 15:26:16 +0200 <Obo> Hi, n00b question, I am getting an incomplete pattern warning, what am I missing? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/sF831ybx
2021-06-14 15:26:36 +0200 <nshepperd2> (the first argument is pure `a` so it's obviously the default, and can't be confused with the other argument)
2021-06-14 15:26:48 +0200 <Obo> s/treeI1nsert/treeInsert/ in paste
2021-06-14 15:27:12 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 15:29:04 +0200 <larryba> I like that version, listDirectorySafe path = defaultIfException @IOError [] (listDirectory path)
2021-06-14 15:29:17 +0200 <larryba> what would the proxy e call look like?
2021-06-14 15:29:36 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26)
2021-06-14 15:29:39 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-06-14 15:29:40 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> flipchan: note that "haskell.careers is live and you've been waiting (im)patiently for hecate' kommissar for ~2 years" would probably score a few points
2021-06-14 15:30:12 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.149.211) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 15:30:33 +0200reumeth(~reumeth@user/reumeth)
2021-06-14 15:32:55 +0200 <janus> what's kommissar? an eastern german police officer?
2021-06-14 15:33:30 +0200 <janus> or is it "commission" (payment) ?
2021-06-14 15:34:08 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:34:18 +0200 <nshepperd2> a high ranking soviet functionary
2021-06-14 15:34:32 +0200argento(~argent0@168-227-96-51.ptr.westnet.com.ar)
2021-06-14 15:34:49 +0200 <merijn> Obo: The compiler isn't smart enough to see that your 3 guards cover all possible cases
2021-06-14 15:34:51 +0200 <Hecate> janus: a CRM for commission workers that I planned on developing a couple of years ago
2021-06-14 15:34:57 +0200 <Hecate> never lived though
2021-06-14 15:35:05 +0200 <merijn> Obo: If you replace the final guard with "otherwise" the warning will go away
2021-06-14 15:35:06 +0200 <janus> nshepperd2: :O did not know that Hecate had the power to dispatch those from their graves
2021-06-14 15:35:18 +0200 <Hecate> ;-D
2021-06-14 15:35:38 +0200 <Obo> merijn: thanks :D
2021-06-14 15:35:54 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@212.103.198.210)
2021-06-14 15:36:08 +0200 <merijn> Obo: Basically, deciding if arbitrary boolean expressions cover all possible cases is...a non-trivial problem to put it mildly ;)
2021-06-14 15:36:09 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> janus: i wrote a time tracking program called (uncle) tito so Hecate had to outdo me
2021-06-14 15:36:15 +0200janusis trying to resist pretending not to understand what CRM is :P
2021-06-14 15:36:24 +0200 <Hecate> janus: hehehe
2021-06-14 15:36:32 +0200 <merijn> Obo: So the compiler just checks "do you have a catch-all branch?" (otherwise is just a synonym for True)
2021-06-14 15:36:44 +0200janusstill always sees Crew Resource Management. read too many airplane crash reports :(
2021-06-14 15:38:16 +0200 <larryba> how do I check if operation failed with InvalidArgument? for some other failures there are is* functions that accept IOError https://hackage.haskell.org/package/directory-1.3.6.2/docs/System-Directory.html#v:listDirectory
2021-06-14 15:39:54 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-06-14 15:40:39 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 15:40:56 +0200 <Obo> merijn: I see. Thank you for the detailed explanation
2021-06-14 15:45:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.126)
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2021-06-14 16:14:35 +0200azeem(~azeem@dynamic-adsl-78-13-238-239.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-06-14 16:16:48 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Is there something like mapAdjacent in the Haskell standard library?: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/utility-ht-0.0.16/docs/Data-List-HT.html#v:mapAdjacent
2021-06-14 16:17:01 +0200dave_uy(~dave_uy@108.61.193.26)
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2021-06-14 16:26:06 +0200 <larryba> @hoogle (a -> a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-06-14 16:26:07 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.List.HT mapAdjacent :: (a -> a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-06-14 16:26:07 +0200 <lambdabot> Test.Speculate.Utils zipWithReverse :: (a -> a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-06-14 16:26:07 +0200 <lambdabot> Test.Speculate.Utils medianate :: (a -> a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-06-14 16:26:52 +0200 <larryba> @hoogle (a -> a -> b) -> t a -> t b
2021-06-14 16:26:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Combinators imap :: FunctorWithIndex i f => (i -> a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-06-14 16:26:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Indexed imap :: FunctorWithIndex i f => (i -> a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-06-14 16:26:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Diagrams.Prelude imap :: FunctorWithIndex i f => (i -> a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-06-14 16:27:00 +0200 <larryba> probably not
2021-06-14 16:27:09 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
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2021-06-14 16:28:44 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@80.240.31.34)
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2021-06-14 16:30:02 +0200 <jumper149> Hi, is there a library providing a type-level list? So that I can write something like `[Int, String, Maybe ()]`.
2021-06-14 16:30:11 +0200 <jumper149> Or is that even possible with current GHC?
2021-06-14 16:30:23 +0200 <dminuoso> Zou can
2021-06-14 16:30:46 +0200 <larryba> why not use a tuple instead?
2021-06-14 16:30:47 +0200 <jumper149> Also it would be nice when the kind was constrained, so `[Int, Maybe]` doesn't typecheck
2021-06-14 16:30:51 +0200 <dminuoso> % f = Const Int '[Int, Char]; f = Const 10
2021-06-14 16:30:51 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:35:17: error: parse error on input `Int'
2021-06-14 16:31:06 +0200 <dminuoso> jumper149: Use '[Int, Maybe]
2021-06-14 16:31:34 +0200 <jumper149> dminuoso: Where is '[] from? base?
2021-06-14 16:31:43 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:521f:1b00:13ff:1633:fd2e:2df7)
2021-06-14 16:31:48 +0200 <dminuoso> GHC.TypeLits
2021-06-14 16:32:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> :t \f a -> zipWith f a (tail a) -- Schrostfutz_ (you probably know this but just in case)
2021-06-14 16:32:03 +0200 <lambdabot> (b -> b -> c) -> [b] -> [c]
2021-06-14 16:32:10 +0200 <dminuoso> or mmm
2021-06-14 16:32:31 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> larryba: Yeah, I tried that but didn't find anything installed by default
2021-06-14 16:32:35 +0200 <dminuoso> jumper149: they should be available through -XDataKinds alone
2021-06-14 16:32:45 +0200 <nshepperd2> jumper149: enable DataKinds, then you can use lists at type level. however type level lists are rarely what you want
2021-06-14 16:32:49 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> tomsmeding: Yeah, I ended up just defining mapAdjacent as exactly that
2021-06-14 16:33:43 +0200 <dminuoso> % f :: Const Int '[Char, Int]; f = Const 10 -- jumper149
2021-06-14 16:33:43 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso:
2021-06-14 16:33:44 +0200 <nshepperd2> jumper149: they are spelled '[Int, String, Maybe ()], the initial ' is ghc syntax to take a data construct and make 'promote' it to type level
2021-06-14 16:34:13 +0200 <dminuoso> jumper149: keep in mind that '[Int, Maybe] cant type check
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2021-06-14 16:34:28 +0200 <dminuoso> jumper149: Consider what the kind of that type list should be?
2021-06-14 16:34:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Is it [Type]? Or [Type -> Type]? It cant be both.
2021-06-14 16:34:45 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 16:35:05 +0200 <jumper149> dminuoso: Yeah, that's what I was trying to say :D
2021-06-14 16:35:36 +0200 <dminuoso> jumper149: You can only have homogeneous type level lists, just like you can only have homogeneous value level lists.
2021-06-14 16:35:53 +0200 <jumper149> dminuoso: YES! I think you misunderstood what I said x)
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2021-06-14 16:55:26 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
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2021-06-14 16:57:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.204)
2021-06-14 16:58:54 +0200 <[exa]> cabal question: why's there no x86_64 binary release for debian? (there's only ubuntu)
2021-06-14 16:58:55 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@wsip-70-163-92-141.tu.ok.cox.net)
2021-06-14 17:00:13 +0200 <merijn> because no one built it yet?
2021-06-14 17:00:34 +0200 <merijn> Are you sure you can't just use the ubuntu binary?
2021-06-14 17:00:57 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-06-14 17:01:11 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 17:01:59 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.204) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:02:42 +0200 <maerwald> there's even a static one
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2021-06-14 17:11:33 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
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2021-06-14 17:12:43 +0200 <jumper149> I would like to use the type-level list to define instances of a type-class recursively. Having a base case for '[] and then an inductive case for (x ': xs).
2021-06-14 17:13:28 +0200arahael(~arahael@203-206-95-53.tpgi.com.au)
2021-06-14 17:14:28 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:14:29 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
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2021-06-14 17:16:54 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 17:16:57 +0200 <jumper149> Ignore that. Writing it down it all became clear to me :)
2021-06-14 17:17:14 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 17:17:25 +0200edmundnoble_edmundnoble
2021-06-14 17:18:14 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> janus: have you heard of wordpress? if you have then it's real simple to understand what a CRM is if you define the content of the cms to be relationships; another key difference is while wordpress is really good at some things; most notably being so customizeable that people (mis/ab)use it for everything they can think of (but not that they should, quite the contrary) dream of doing (but doing so badly), instead of reaching for more appropr
2021-06-14 17:18:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> iate solutions. if one were so inclined you could even use wordpress to build a somewhat acceptable but probably overwhelmingly "meh" CRM! wordpress greatest strength is really a bit of a curse. now most CRM avoid this curse of being so easy to use that people use it when they shouldn't and instead focus on being so hard to use that it's rare they are used even for their intended purposes let alone correctly or willingly... /s
2021-06-14 17:18:49 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 17:22:18 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@188.26.30.39) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-14 17:23:20 +0200Schrostfutz_(~Schrostfu@p5de88aa6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-06-14 17:26:21 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 17:27:01 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 17:27:24 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 17:27:29 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533)
2021-06-14 17:27:43 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
2021-06-14 17:28:52 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 17:29:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230)
2021-06-14 17:29:34 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:29:34 +0200argento(~argent0@168-227-96-51.ptr.westnet.com.ar) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:30:03 +0200iamarpandey(~iamarpand@110.235.238.174)
2021-06-14 17:30:08 +0200nschoe(~quassel@2a04:cec0:10b8:624e:c4a3:2667:fa41:694c)
2021-06-14 17:30:19 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 17:30:42 +0200 <iamarpandey> hello
2021-06-14 17:30:46 +0200 <iamarpandey> how's everyone
2021-06-14 17:31:27 +0200 <shapr> I'm pure and functional
2021-06-14 17:31:32 +0200 <shapr> or something
2021-06-14 17:31:33 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm ok
2021-06-14 17:31:38 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@wsip-70-163-92-141.tu.ok.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 17:31:53 +0200 <Obo> i'm not ok
2021-06-14 17:32:01 +0200shaprhugs Obo
2021-06-14 17:32:12 +0200 <Obo> How do I return the hug? New to IRC
2021-06-14 17:32:20 +0200 <shapr> Obo: you can use "/me hugs shapr"
2021-06-14 17:32:30 +0200Obohugs shapr
2021-06-14 17:32:34 +0200 <shapr> yay!
2021-06-14 17:32:39 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> (tbh i'm not ok either but pretty sure people knew that lol)
2021-06-14 17:32:56 +0200 <shapr> I think I'll try the VELDT getting started repo today after work.
2021-06-14 17:32:57 +0200Obohugs DigitalKiwi
2021-06-14 17:33:01 +0200shaprhugs DigitalKiwi
2021-06-14 17:33:04 +0200 <shapr> hugs are good
2021-06-14 17:33:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> lambdabot is also quite ok if you feed it a snack
2021-06-14 17:33:05 +0200iamarpandey(~iamarpand@110.235.238.174) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 17:33:08 +0200 <tomsmeding> @botsnack
2021-06-14 17:33:08 +0200 <shapr> @botsnack
2021-06-14 17:33:09 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2021-06-14 17:33:11 +0200 <shapr> yay!
2021-06-14 17:33:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> :D
2021-06-14 17:33:22 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-14 17:33:29 +0200 <shapr> so this will be my fun after work: https://github.com/standardsemiconductor/VELDT-getting-started
2021-06-14 17:33:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.230) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:33:31 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> OH NO I HAVE BEEN HUGGED
2021-06-14 17:33:32 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 17:33:35 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 17:34:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://xkcd.com/2419/
2021-06-14 17:34:54 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> shapr: is this the hearing aid project
2021-06-14 17:35:17 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 17:35:49 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@wsip-70-163-92-141.tu.ok.cox.net)
2021-06-14 17:36:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> shapr: that cabal.project template contains a comment that I find disturbing
2021-06-14 17:36:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> "'large-tuples' generates tuple instances for various classes up to the GHC imposed maximum of 62 elements. This severely slows down compiling Clash, and triggers Template Haskell bugs on Windows. Hence, we disable it by default. This will be the default for Clash >=1.4."
2021-06-14 17:36:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> in particular the "Template Haskell bugs on Windows"
2021-06-14 17:36:43 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arduino-copilot i have one of these blink on an uno
2021-06-14 17:36:48 +0200 <shapr> DigitalKiwi: nah, I haven't picked up the hearing aid project in awhile, but that's a good reminder.
2021-06-14 17:36:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> why would having large tuples bring problems on a particular operating system only
2021-06-14 17:37:02 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-06-14 17:37:44 +0200 <shapr> I don't know, but it sounds like an adventure I would rather not have today.
2021-06-14 17:39:20 +0200 <[exa]> tomsmeding: any program may trigger halting problem unexplainability, but windows loves doing it
2021-06-14 17:41:12 +0200 <shapr> DigitalKiwi: I mostly want to get comfy writing FPGA code. If I reach that, I have some ideas for speeding up FPGA place and route that probably won't work, but will be fun to read about.
2021-06-14 17:42:05 +0200 <shapr> I still find it strange that I haven't found any FPGA bitstreams used to speed up FPGA development. Seems like that should exist.
2021-06-14 17:47:22 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> probably does exist somewhere proprietary
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2021-06-14 17:48:22 +0200degraafk(sid71464@id-71464.tooting.irccloud.com)
2021-06-14 17:49:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 17:51:02 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211)
2021-06-14 17:51:18 +0200nschoe(~quassel@178.251.84.79)
2021-06-14 17:51:57 +0200 <nshepperd2> one source of potential os-specific large-tuple bugs i can imagine is deforestation/inlining leading to allocating lots of registers
2021-06-14 17:53:26 +0200fef(~thedawn@user/thedawn)
2021-06-14 17:54:07 +0200 <[exa]> nshepperd2: like that some certain OS would break register contents?
2021-06-14 17:54:15 +0200 <[exa]> that sounds pretty harsh
2021-06-14 17:54:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> and that also sounds like a bug that should manifest in a lot of other places, if true
2021-06-14 17:57:00 +0200 <nshepperd2> i don't know
2021-06-14 17:57:38 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm under the impression Windows has a very different notion of things like caller-saves registers and registers used to access DLL data than Unix-derived systems
2021-06-14 17:57:42 +0200 <nshepperd2> the thing about bugs is that something has to go wrong
2021-06-14 17:58:42 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 17:59:19 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-06-14 17:59:42 +0200 <geekosaur> that said, I find it difficult to believe that TH is related to registers since on the one hand TH itself is bytecode and on the other what it generates is too high level to involve registers
2021-06-14 18:00:00 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-06-14 18:00:24 +0200 <geekosaur> unless they're bytecode-linking to objects in other packages, but that one should show up in lots of other packages on Windows
2021-06-14 18:00:39 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i find a lot of bugs so it's quite possible i'm meeting your quota too
2021-06-14 18:00:58 +0200 <nshepperd2> huh, i thought TH used to be compiled to object code and dynamically loaded into ghc?
2021-06-14 18:01:06 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-06-14 18:01:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.125)
2021-06-14 18:01:30 +0200 <geekosaur> bytecode is a large part of why TH is so slow
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2021-06-14 18:08:45 +0200xprlgjf(~gavin@60.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-06-14 18:09:40 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-06-14 18:09:56 +0200 <kuribas> is there a library that can read a record subset from a superset?
2021-06-14 18:10:02 +0200 <kuribas> using generics?
2021-06-14 18:10:23 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 18:11:14 +0200 <[exa]> kuribas: we did something similar with surgery, but not sure if that's desirable for simple usecases
2021-06-14 18:11:41 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-06-14 18:12:08 +0200 <[exa]> (the package is `generic-data-surgery`)
2021-06-14 18:12:09 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 18:12:30 +0200 <kuribas> it would save me a moderate amount of boilerplate
2021-06-14 18:12:42 +0200 <kuribas> Currently I am abusing RecordWildCards for it :)
2021-06-14 18:12:45 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 18:13:13 +0200 <kuribas> [exa]: that library looks complicated
2021-06-14 18:13:24 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211)
2021-06-14 18:13:49 +0200amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-06-14 18:14:19 +0200 <[exa]> kuribas: it's not that bad, the use usually reduces to a simple scheme like `fromOR . removeSomeFields . toOR`
2021-06-14 18:14:21 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 18:14:36 +0200tinco(~tinco@tinco.nl)
2021-06-14 18:15:14 +0200 <kuribas> maybe I'll roll my own with generics-eot
2021-06-14 18:15:38 +0200lbseale_(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus)
2021-06-14 18:15:40 +0200 <kuribas> oh, that's not powerful enough
2021-06-14 18:16:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 18:16:39 +0200 <[exa]> like, I was sold just the name of the operating room for types
2021-06-14 18:16:46 +0200 <[exa]> and it worked, so I left it there :D
2021-06-14 18:16:46 +0200 <kuribas> yeah :)
2021-06-14 18:17:02 +0200 <kuribas> [exa]: by do I need to manually remove fields?
2021-06-14 18:17:06 +0200 <kuribas> or can it detect them?
2021-06-14 18:17:10 +0200fishfinger(~fishfinge@cpc68330-cdif16-2-0-cust557.5-1.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 18:17:46 +0200 <[exa]> not sure, we had datatypes with `id` that were falling out of some database adaptor (likely selda) and we were removing the `id` and some other db-specific stuff
2021-06-14 18:18:02 +0200 <kuribas> yeah, that's my usecase as well
2021-06-14 18:18:19 +0200 <[exa]> I'm not sure if you can do "everything except these fields"
2021-06-14 18:18:36 +0200amahl(~amahl@dsl-jklbng12-54fbca-64.dhcp.inet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-14 18:19:03 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn)
2021-06-14 18:19:04 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@user/ep1ctetus) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 18:19:20 +0200dunkeln(~dunkeln@94.129.65.28)
2021-06-14 18:19:36 +0200 <[exa]> like, "data Suture :: MajorSurgery k -- Use this if a patient ever needs to go out and back into the operating room ..."
2021-06-14 18:19:39 +0200 <[exa]> c'mon
2021-06-14 18:19:41 +0200 <[exa]> too good
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2021-06-14 19:23:58 +0200 <lyxia> heh
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2021-06-14 19:39:51 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-06-14 19:59:05 +0200eflister(~eflister@2601:1c0:5501:c150:a9cd:cab7:e080:34d4)
2021-06-14 20:00:14 +0200 <eflister> hi, using an xml-conduit cursor i want to filter out nodes that have a child <LineString> -- i think i need to use one of the check* functions here: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xml-conduit-1.9.1.1/docs/Text-XML-Cursor.html#g:4
2021-06-14 20:00:15 +0200 <eflister> my guess is something like: check (\c -> "LineString" `notElem` (c $/ nameLocalName . elementName))
2021-06-14 20:00:15 +0200 <eflister> but that doesn't type check :(
2021-06-14 20:00:16 +0200 <eflister> in another context, i was able to use `checkElement` to filter based on a node's attribute values, but i don't see how to look at a node's childrens' names...
2021-06-14 20:00:16 +0200 <eflister> checkElement (maybe False (not . T.isInfixOf "Spanish") . M.lookup "ows_Document" . X.elementAttributes)
2021-06-14 20:00:17 +0200 <eflister> here's a paste w/running code: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/eZbfKbES
2021-06-14 20:00:17 +0200 <eflister> most of it is just for downloading and unzipping a .kmz, you can ignore that part. inside is a kml file, which is just xml. the `extract` function is where i need to filter out nodes that have <LineString> children
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2021-06-14 20:36:24 +0200 <eflister> anyone have time to help with my xml-conduit cursor problem? :)
2021-06-14 20:37:21 +0200gensyst(gensyst@user/gensyst)
2021-06-14 20:37:22 +0200 <monochrom> Perhaps most haven't used xml-conduit. I certainly haven't.
2021-06-14 20:37:44 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 20:37:44 +0200 <gensyst> If n is KnownNat, why isn't n+1 automatically a KnownNat?
2021-06-14 20:39:12 +0200 <eflister> monochrom: should be able to work it out from the types tho :) i could use help just with that. the parts that aren't straightforward are the distinctions between Node and Element, and the Cursor/Axis types...
2021-06-14 20:39:35 +0200 <nshepperd> gensyst: it can be, if you enable a ghc plugin
2021-06-14 20:40:09 +0200 <eflister> monochrom: there's a good quick overview here: https://www.yesodweb.com/book/xml#xml_cursor
2021-06-14 20:40:17 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-06-14 20:40:42 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-06-14 20:40:51 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26)
2021-06-14 20:42:31 +0200 <nshepperd> as for why it's not built into ghc, it's probably because KnownNat inference is basically arithmetic theorem proving and it's not obvious what algorithm would serve all use cases best
2021-06-14 20:43:15 +0200tubogram(~tubogram@user/tubogram) (*.net *.split)
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2021-06-14 20:43:40 +0200tubogram(~tubogram@user/tubogram) (*.net *.split)
2021-06-14 20:43:40 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (*.net *.split)
2021-06-14 20:43:52 +0200 <nshepperd> @hackage ghc-typelits-knownnat
2021-06-14 20:43:52 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-typelits-knownnat
2021-06-14 20:44:05 +0200tubogram(~tubogram@user/tubogram)
2021-06-14 20:44:13 +0200 <maerwald> is -rtsopts ignored for test suites?
2021-06-14 20:44:45 +0200 <monochrom> The specific case of n+1 does not need very general theorem proving. However, I would attribute its absence to "on the TODO list".
2021-06-14 20:45:23 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@2601:8a:4080:1280:8c7e:5b3f:79d6:ec26) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 20:46:04 +0200 <monochrom> An upon the clearly rhetorical question "why isn't" the very obvious answer is "patches welcome".
2021-06-14 20:46:58 +0200 <monochrom> Dependent typing for Haskell is a huge program on essentially a one-person band. Expect additions to be very slowly trickling down.
2021-06-14 20:47:40 +0200 <monochrom> Uh, unlike the usual me, no pun intended there, honest!
2021-06-14 20:48:43 +0200tomsmedingis suspicious
2021-06-14 20:48:45 +0200 <monochrom> I think it is very safe to assume that:
2021-06-14 20:49:14 +0200 <monochrom> 1. Every "why isn't foo available" question is rhetorical. The asker doesn't really care about "why", they're just complaining.
2021-06-14 20:49:25 +0200 <monochrom> 2. Therefore the correct answer is "patches welcome".
2021-06-14 20:49:45 +0200 <monochrom> 3. Therefore, we can set up a bot to handle those questions.
2021-06-14 20:50:10 +0200 <monochrom> . o O ( Why isn't there such a bot??!!! >:) )
2021-06-14 20:51:38 +0200mc47(~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47)
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2021-06-14 20:53:20 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.47) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-06-14 20:53:36 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 20:54:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> patches welcome!
2021-06-14 20:54:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> ... which raises the obvious question: patches to what?
2021-06-14 20:55:07 +0200 <monochrom> The empty, newly created git repo? :)
2021-06-14 20:55:19 +0200 <nshepperd> it doesn't seem very obvious when i think about it. like reducing KnownNat (n + 1) to KnownNat n is an intuitive reduction step but not the only one possible
2021-06-14 20:55:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> such a bot wouldn't be able to have perfect accuracy without significant haskell domain knowledge, though
2021-06-14 20:55:58 +0200 <nshepperd> and it must eventually terminate in whatever KnownNat instances are in scope
2021-06-14 20:56:26 +0200 <tomsmeding> "why isn't type Abc an instance of class Xyz" could very well be a non-complaining question, depending on the asker and the type and class in question
2021-06-14 20:56:53 +0200 <gensyst> nshepperd, thanks this plugin seems to work!
2021-06-14 20:57:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> nshepperd: I don't know how + on Nats is defined internally in GHC; if it's the typical, naive recursive definition, then it's either recursive on the left argument or on the right
2021-06-14 20:57:29 +0200 <gensyst> is there ANY other language that has stuff like vector-sized? this is REALLY great stuff!
2021-06-14 20:57:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.164)
2021-06-14 20:57:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> and hence you might see different behaviour with 1 + n than with n + 1
2021-06-14 20:57:57 +0200 <monochrom> tomsmeding, but this one is a type-level +. KnownNat is a class; n is a type.
2021-06-14 20:59:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> monochrom: which makes my point all the more relevant, because on the type level, at least for type families, ghc has to be careful with choosing type family branches when it's not yet clear that the argument is apart from the previous pattern
2021-06-14 20:59:08 +0200 <nshepperd> inferring KnownNat (n + 1) from KnownNat (n+2) which is in scope might be equally valid
2021-06-14 20:59:15 +0200 <monochrom> I am now convinced by nshepperd. "If n's kind is Nat, then n+1's kind is Nat" is easy. But the type class version is much harder.
2021-06-14 21:00:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> but if the implementation of type-level nats in ghc is magical, then it can of course get around this tip-toeing restriction
2021-06-14 21:00:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> but it has to explicitly implemented
2021-06-14 21:00:23 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-06-14 21:00:40 +0200 <tomsmeding> which returns to the initial response: patches welcome
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2021-06-14 22:06:32 +0200 <eflister> whew, figured it out: check (null . ($/ checkName ((== "LineString") . nameLocalName)))
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2021-06-14 22:19:40 +0200 <eflister> can anyone be frank with me about what's happening to haskell the last few years? it's my favorite but i'm just a hobbyist, so i only do about one project a year, and i have no inside scoop. the community doesn't seem to have the vitality it did 5-10 years ago, there doesn't seem to be the same volume of exciting new discoveries and developments.
2021-06-14 22:19:40 +0200 <eflister> did people move on to something else? why?
2021-06-14 22:20:31 +0200 <wz1000> is there anything in particular that makes you say that?
2021-06-14 22:21:05 +0200 <[exa]> eflister: imo the community is super excited, except many people got haskell jobs which makes them far less radical :D
2021-06-14 22:22:22 +0200 <[exa]> (and yeah, stuff is getting stabilized, that's good isn't it?)
2021-06-14 22:22:59 +0200 <eflister> well when i was first learning, there were millions of blogs with explainers of recent advances that everyone was buzzing about -- applicative, transformers, lenses, etc. i haven't seen stuff like that in a few years. and spj seems to be way less active?
2021-06-14 22:23:32 +0200 <geekosaur> these days type level is the new hotness
2021-06-14 22:23:36 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-14 22:23:53 +0200 <geekosaur> but nobody understands it well enough to explain it to the rest of us :þ
2021-06-14 22:23:54 +0200 <Vq> We should have avoided success, now we're paying the price for it...
2021-06-14 22:24:08 +0200 <Rembane> geekosaur: Sounds like monads ... but on the type level. :)
2021-06-14 22:25:11 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 22:25:18 +0200 <[exa]> also linear haskell!!111
2021-06-14 22:25:21 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> Is there a way to "build" recursive functions not from the top down, but from the bottom up? I'm looking at a problem where a call for `n` requires one call each for `1..n - 1`, which quickly becomes unfeasible
2021-06-14 22:25:57 +0200 <wz1000> https://gitlab.haskell.org/simonpj seems quite active to me...
2021-06-14 22:25:57 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: this is a wild shot but you might refer to "memoization algorithms" or "dynamic programming"
2021-06-14 22:26:05 +0200 <bor0> eflister, it just so happens that the same moment I am watching https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1052714670 and it covers some of your questions. I am halfway through but they covered the current community, the proposal system, experimenting with Haskell, etc.
2021-06-14 22:26:54 +0200 <geekosaur> there's a lot of effort going into haskell-language-server as IDE support
2021-06-14 22:26:56 +0200 <bor0> I am in a similar situation to you (Haskell as a hobby, small projects, advent of code, etc.), but it looks pretty alive to me :)
2021-06-14 22:27:03 +0200 <bor0> to yours*
2021-06-14 22:27:07 +0200 <geekosaur> I think the community is maturing, not dying
2021-06-14 22:27:16 +0200 <geekosaur> mid 20s instead of mid teens
2021-06-14 22:27:43 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> "the community doesn't seem to have the vitality it did 5-10 years ago" stack was released 6 years ago; highly sus
2021-06-14 22:27:47 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> [exa]: Thanks! I'll look into it
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2021-06-14 22:28:21 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: generally, just make an array (or whatever) for caching the results, and update it with small systematic steps until it contains the final result
2021-06-14 22:28:31 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-06-14 22:28:46 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: nice illustrating algorithm is the Floyd-Warshall massive shortest path finder
2021-06-14 22:28:46 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> dibblego: https://twitter.com/dibblego/status/816424706316189696
2021-06-14 22:29:16 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> [exa]: Yeah, that's what I thought was gonna be the solution but naive me assumed the compiler would "just figure it out"...
2021-06-14 22:29:31 +0200 <eflister> wz1000: well i mean at the level of talks explaining amazing new ideas. bor0: thanks for the vid, definitely what i'm asking! i'll watch. DigitalKiwi: heh :)
2021-06-14 22:29:33 +0200 <maerwald> eflister: there certainly are some community issues, but I'm not sure how big those effects really are
2021-06-14 22:29:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> geekosaur: am i too old for haskell now ;( (just turned 33 ;( )
2021-06-14 22:29:57 +0200 <eflister> maerwald: any examples?
2021-06-14 22:30:07 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: it might tbh, but needs some technique to get it out properly
2021-06-14 22:30:07 +0200 <geekosaur> if you are, I'm definitely over the hill (56)
2021-06-14 22:30:48 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> was first interested in it in my early 20s though does that count
2021-06-14 22:31:02 +0200 <wz1000> eflister: SPJ does have a couple of talks at the major conferences every year.
2021-06-14 22:31:37 +0200 <maerwald> eflister: I'd rather not engage in gossip. But comparing with the rust community I feel there's definitely more tension... some of it technical disagreements others not
2021-06-14 22:31:41 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: but something like this should do the memoization kinda right: `solutions = map (\i -> createSolution i (take i solutions)) [0..]`
2021-06-14 22:31:58 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> eflister: just the other day i noticed tony has a bunch of youtube videos i haven't seen yet he's usually fun
2021-06-14 22:33:17 +0200teaSlurper(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-14 22:33:31 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> this by pufffnfresh is good too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzIZzvbplSM&list=PLly9WMAVMrayYo2c-1E_rIRwBXG_FbLBW
2021-06-14 22:33:43 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-06-14 22:33:47 +0200reumeth(~reumeth@user/reumeth) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-06-14 22:34:03 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> [exa]: That makes sense, I'm working on an array solution right now, let's see whether that get's me somewhere
2021-06-14 22:34:50 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: who's tony i haven't heard of him? maerwald: yeah it seems rust has the energy haskell had a few years ago. i've only quickly looked at it and i don't get the big deal?
2021-06-14 22:35:00 +0200 <[exa]> Schrostfutz_: with mutable vectors it should be even pretty fast
2021-06-14 22:35:20 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 22:36:25 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mit3KBw2Amw&t=929s
2021-06-14 22:37:16 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> eflister: tony = dibblego
2021-06-14 22:37:58 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> also voldemort
2021-06-14 22:38:28 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1079560165333045248?s=20
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2021-06-14 22:42:48 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> [exa]: Hm, even with memoization my solution is too slow, I guess I'm doing it wrong
2021-06-14 22:43:06 +0200 <Schrostfutz_> `it` being the approach, not the memoization
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2021-06-14 22:46:06 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: quick look at that mckenna playlist seems like intro stuff, not big new research developments becoming practically applicable, that was what seemed to be so exciting a few years ago. maybe most of the implications of categorical structure have played out?
2021-06-14 22:46:48 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> how much do you know about holes
2021-06-14 22:46:55 +0200MQ-17J(~MQ-17J@d14-69-206-129.try.wideopenwest.com)
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2021-06-14 22:50:36 +0200 <eflister> DigitalKiwi: only vague familiarity :)
2021-06-14 22:50:41 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> you're right that it's mostly intro stuff yeah i didn't mean to imply that it was revolutionary ideas (but puffnfresh is a joy to learn from and i really like those videos and he does a good intro to type holes at some point during it that i hadn't known about before)
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2021-06-14 22:52:21 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (Error from remote client)
2021-06-14 22:52:28 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-06-14 22:52:34 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@120.236.161.38)
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2021-06-14 22:53:34 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://github.com/system-f/fp-course/commit/9fda35854f048fbf65de737b9850f8a416f05843#
2021-06-14 22:55:36 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/1270573845695455234
2021-06-14 22:59:08 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b8662d980089ca00d34d7b3df6.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-06-14 23:00:02 +0200 <chisui> Hey, Is there a way to have fundeps on closed type families?
2021-06-14 23:00:04 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> eflister: also keep in mind that there's been a bit of an ongoing event that's thrown wrenches in everything lol; like eg. earlier when i was mentioning the art i made for the people who were going to zuirhac ;)
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2021-06-14 23:03:22 +0200 <chisui> never mind, I was looking for injective type families again.
2021-06-14 23:04:14 +0200bilegeek(~bilegeek@2600:1008:b041:5047:48ad:ae3d:d2ea:7d42)
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2021-06-14 23:05:47 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://zfoh.ch/zurihac2020/#program i started the art in february; good thing it was canceled though because the post took a month to get it to hecate ...several days too late heh
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2021-06-14 23:23:15 +0200abarbu(~user@c-66-31-23-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) ()
2021-06-14 23:23:18 +0200 <maerwald> @hoogle a -> m (Maybe a) -> m a
2021-06-14 23:23:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Network.AWS.Prelude (.!
2021-06-14 23:23:47 +0200 <maerwald> @hoogle m a -> m (Maybe a) -> m a
2021-06-14 23:23:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Extra fromMaybeM :: Monad m => m a -> m (Maybe a) -> m a
2021-06-14 23:23:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Extra fromMaybeM :: Monad m => m a -> m (Maybe a) -> m a
2021-06-14 23:23:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Control.Conditional (<<|) :: Monad m => m a -> m (Maybe a) -> m a
2021-06-14 23:24:21 +0200MoC(~moc@user/moc) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-06-14 23:24:26 +0200 <maerwald> not worth a dependency
2021-06-14 23:24:29 +0200tonyday(~user@202-65-93-249.ip4.superloop.com)
2021-06-14 23:25:01 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@27.58.175.254)
2021-06-14 23:26:22 +0200 <tonyday> hi haskell, on ghcup-0.1.15.2, I'm trying ghc 9.0.1 and hls 1.2.0, and it doesn't seem to create haskell-language-server-9.0.1~1.2.0 in ~/.ghcup/bin Is this right? If so, what would be the recommendation? Locally build the hls project and place the binary in the ghcup directory with this naming convention?
2021-06-14 23:27:31 +0200 <geekosaur> I don''t see "hls-powered" on 9.0.1 yet
2021-06-14 23:27:38 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-06-14 23:27:58 +0200 <maerwald> yes, because it's not in the tar.gz archive
2021-06-14 23:28:03 +0200 <maerwald> that's an upstream issue
2021-06-14 23:28:06 +0200 <maerwald> jneira_: ^
2021-06-14 23:28:31 +0200 <maerwald> https://imgur.com/kS2tzEo.png
2021-06-14 23:30:05 +0200 <jneira_> to get a version of hls with support for ghc-9.0 you would need to build it from source, yeah
2021-06-14 23:30:31 +0200 <jneira_> using the `cabal-ghc901.project`
2021-06-14 23:31:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.203)
2021-06-14 23:31:46 +0200 <jneira_> placing it in ghcup with the appropiate name could work
2021-06-14 23:32:01 +0200 <jneira_> ghcup directory
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2021-06-14 23:32:37 +0200 <tonyday> https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/297#issuecomment-855522891
2021-06-14 23:33:03 +0200jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@c-73-29-224-10.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-06-14 23:33:17 +0200 <maerwald> yes, you need to place the binary at ~/.ghcup/bin/haskell-language-server-9.0.1~1.2.0 and then run `ln -s haskell-language-server-9.0.1~1.2.0 ~/.ghcup/bin/haskell-language-server-9.0.1`
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2021-06-14 23:34:02 +0200 <jneira_> not all plugins work for ghc-9.0 though, the list is here: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/297#issuecomment-855522891
2021-06-14 23:35:26 +0200 <tonyday> perfect, thanks! And yes, I'm going from no HLS to HLS something, which is a big boost for my productivity.
2021-06-14 23:35:56 +0200 <maerwald> hope you don't use 9.0. in production though
2021-06-14 23:36:24 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.203) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 23:37:24 +0200geekosaurdecides it's time to update to 8.10.5
2021-06-14 23:37:33 +0200 <maerwald> geekosaur: I'd not advise :p
2021-06-14 23:37:40 +0200 <maerwald> it's a flaky release
2021-06-14 23:37:48 +0200 <maerwald> 8.10.6 might come soon
2021-06-14 23:38:10 +0200 <geekosaur> ok, so I'll leave 8.10.4 set
2021-06-14 23:38:38 +0200 <maerwald> if you're on darwin, it's likely that it's outright broken for you
2021-06-14 23:38:46 +0200 <tonyday> production includes us noodling around in ghc-lib-parser and putting in linear types, so I do! The 8.10 series is being pensioned off.
2021-06-14 23:38:49 +0200 <geekosaur> so I've been seeing
2021-06-14 23:38:58 +0200 <maerwald> tonyday: 9.0.1 is unsound
2021-06-14 23:38:59 +0200 <tonyday> yes, on darwin
2021-06-14 23:39:34 +0200 <maerwald> tonyday: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-March/133540.html
2021-06-14 23:39:45 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-06-14 23:39:58 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b9b1:9fc2:289f:a533)
2021-06-14 23:42:03 +0200 <geekosaur> so is there a metadata issue that 8.10.5 shows as recommended?
2021-06-14 23:42:15 +0200 <maerwald> geekosaur: you mean in ghcup?
2021-06-14 23:42:20 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2021-06-14 23:42:28 +0200 <maerwald> "the only way is forward" :p
2021-06-14 23:42:41 +0200 <maerwald> reverting to 8.10.4 seems odd
2021-06-14 23:42:42 +0200 <tonyday> I jest, but we intend to change our prelude, back to Prelude, and our build to cabal. 9.0 is good practice.
2021-06-14 23:43:58 +0200 <maerwald> geekosaur: but yeah, next point release we might need to be more conservative. 8.10.5 was a pretty big release for a point release
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2021-06-14 23:54:07 +0200safinaskar(~safinaska@109.252.90.89)
2021-06-14 23:55:41 +0200 <safinaskar> Terminology question. Is there some agreement on definition of "type"? For example, are entities of kind "* -> *" (such as Maybe) considered to be types? Even haskell report 2010 doesn't give answer, it uses "type" in both meanings (i. e. any entities in type syntax and entities of kind *)
2021-06-14 23:56:02 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@184.179.34.210) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-06-14 23:56:50 +0200 <ski> there are two schools of terminology
2021-06-14 23:56:54 +0200hemlock(~hemlock@2607:fb90:9629:beeb:c0f9:725f:e469:1bcf)
2021-06-14 23:57:00 +0200 <safinaskar> >_<
2021-06-14 23:57:17 +0200 <monochrom> I am a big fan of using different definitions in different contexts.
2021-06-14 23:57:26 +0200 <ski> in the former, `Int',`Maybe Int' are types, `Maybe
2021-06-14 23:57:33 +0200 <safinaskar> i am plan to teach some aspects of haskell to my friend. In what sense i should use "type"?
2021-06-14 23:58:16 +0200 <maerwald> safinaskar: I doubt most people will need that refined terminology to understand or learn
2021-06-14 23:58:19 +0200 <ski> in the former, `Int',`Maybe Int',`Either String Int' are types, `Maybe',`Either',`Either String' are type constructors (and `Eq' is a type class, while `Functor' is a constructor class)
2021-06-14 23:58:41 +0200 <monochrom> For teaching purposes, I am also a big fan of the onion analogy, i.e., there are multiple layers of truths and white lies.
2021-06-14 23:58:42 +0200 <hpc> Functor is also a type class
2021-06-14 23:58:53 +0200 <hpc> oh, i see what you mean
2021-06-14 23:58:57 +0200 <safinaskar> s/ and entities of kind *) / and entities of kind * ) /
2021-06-14 23:59:12 +0200 <ski> (with `Maybe',`Either',`Either String' not being counted as types there. types being disjoint from type constructors)
2021-06-14 23:59:51 +0200 <safinaskar> okey, i understand that there is no agreement