IRCBrowse

2021/05/30

2021-05-30 00:00:00 +0200 <dminuoso> foldl f z [1,2,3,4] = (((z `f` 1) `f` 2) `f` 3) `f` 4
2021-05-30 00:00:44 +0200 <dminuoso> If we set `f` to (+) we get
2021-05-30 00:01:15 +0200justachejustBull
2021-05-30 00:01:18 +0200 <dminuoso> Er, poor example
2021-05-30 00:02:50 +0200 <pavonia> f will always be left- or right-associative, so the evaluation order should always be fixed given the implicit parentheses
2021-05-30 00:03:04 +0200cstml(cstml@tilde.club)
2021-05-30 00:03:04 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-05-30 00:03:25 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-30 00:03:49 +0200 <dminuoso> What do you mean by evaluation order, exactly?
2021-05-30 00:03:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Consider setting `f` to (:)
2021-05-30 00:03:56 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 00:04:03 +0200 <dminuoso> Would you agree that you dont need the right hand side to work with the left hand side?
2021-05-30 00:04:10 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-30 00:04:26 +0200 <dminuoso> If you set `f` to (:) and `z` to [], you get:
2021-05-30 00:04:36 +0200 <dminuoso> 1 : (2 : (3 : (4 : [])))
2021-05-30 00:04:55 +0200 <dminuoso> And indeed, I can prove this will *not* force the right hand side
2021-05-30 00:05:09 +0200 <dminuoso> % take 10 $ foldr (:) [] [1..]
2021-05-30 00:05:09 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
2021-05-30 00:05:31 +0200 <dminuoso> pavonia: If what you said was right, and this evaluated from right to left, this would have bottomed out
2021-05-30 00:06:07 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d60001a96e63c195d7c7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:06:09 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-30 00:06:10 +0200 <monochrom> > foldr (&&) undefined (repeat False)
2021-05-30 00:06:11 +0200 <lambdabot> False
2021-05-30 00:07:45 +0200 <monochrom> If your model doesn't explain that, it's a wrong model.
2021-05-30 00:08:05 +0200 <monochrom> If your model explains that but with lots of epicycles, it has lots of epicycles.
2021-05-30 00:08:12 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:08:39 +0200meltedbrain_y2k(~tekserf@45.83.220.218) ()
2021-05-30 00:10:46 +0200 <pavonia> Well, thanks. I'll play with the fold*M defintions
2021-05-30 00:11:16 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.76)
2021-05-30 00:11:56 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-30 00:12:00 +0200 <hololeap> dminuoso: hah, you picked an abelian monoid :p
2021-05-30 00:13:03 +0200 <hololeap> (choosing (+) as your example)
2021-05-30 00:13:14 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:13:35 +0200 <dminuoso> hololeap: It was a bad example for a different reason.
2021-05-30 00:14:53 +0200 <dminuoso> The difference between foldr and foldl with (+) can be observed only indirectly
2021-05-30 00:15:18 +0200 <hololeap> oh, true
2021-05-30 00:15:34 +0200curiousgay(~AdminUser@178.217.208.8)
2021-05-30 00:15:46 +0200 <dminuoso> one will cause a stack overflow, and the other will fill up your heap first.
2021-05-30 00:16:02 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.76) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:16:46 +0200 <dminuoso> And that's actually what pavonia was probably thinking about
2021-05-30 00:17:40 +0200 <dminuoso> perhaps their mistake was not realizing that the function to foldr can itself return a lambda or be a data constructor
2021-05-30 00:17:46 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-05-30 00:18:04 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-30 00:18:11 +0200 <davean> no, I don't think that explains the mistake
2021-05-30 00:18:16 +0200 <dminuoso> mmm
2021-05-30 00:18:34 +0200 <davean> consider if it doesn't look at an argument
2021-05-30 00:18:49 +0200 <dminuoso> right
2021-05-30 00:19:50 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Changing host)
2021-05-30 00:19:50 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-05-30 00:19:50 +0200 <pavonia> What I'm trying to do is to run a `ST s ()` action on each element of a ByteString. I'm just unsure which of the two folds is the more efficient option in this case
2021-05-30 00:21:15 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:21:44 +0200 <dminuoso> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.15.0.0/docs/Data-Foldable.html#v:foldrM
2021-05-30 00:21:49 +0200 <dminuoso> Read the documentation of both, and decide for yourself.
2021-05-30 00:22:12 +0200 <dminuoso> "efficiency" is not your problem, its that they have subtly different semantics wrt to MonadPlus
2021-05-30 00:22:30 +0200 <dminuoso> And they associate differently in output
2021-05-30 00:22:43 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.177.19)
2021-05-30 00:22:51 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d60001a96e63c195d7c7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-05-30 00:28:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.46)
2021-05-30 00:28:48 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-30 00:29:03 +0200 <hololeap> pavonia: you probably want something like mapM_
2021-05-30 00:29:41 +0200Brumaire(~quassel@81-64-14-121.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: ran away)
2021-05-30 00:29:50 +0200 <hololeap> again, there is an example mono-traversable
2021-05-30 00:30:00 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-05-30 00:31:13 +0200 <hololeap> well, not so much an example as a ready-made implementation
2021-05-30 00:31:50 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2021-05-30 00:32:22 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.46) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:32:38 +0200 <hololeap> dminuoso: out of curiosity, what makes that package overkill to you?
2021-05-30 00:33:11 +0200 <hololeap> I see a lot of people complaining that dependencies are too "heavy" or pull in too many dependencies, and I don't really understand the logic
2021-05-30 00:33:54 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 00:33:58 +0200 <monochrom> I would certainly use some version of mapM_. Be it the one from mono-traversable or roll-your-own "mapM_ foo . .unpack".
2021-05-30 00:34:32 +0200 <pavonia> mono-traversable uses `foldr ((*>) . f) (pure ())`, if I understand correctly
2021-05-30 00:35:04 +0200 <monochrom> That is exactly the efficient way.
2021-05-30 00:35:24 +0200 <pavonia> lol, thank you
2021-05-30 00:35:32 +0200DrezilallePronom(~drezilkif@2001:470:69fc:105::7f8)
2021-05-30 00:35:46 +0200 <monochrom> At least if that "foldr" is []'s
2021-05-30 00:36:12 +0200 <pavonia> It's ByteString's foldr
2021-05-30 00:36:26 +0200 <monochrom> Then I don't actually know.
2021-05-30 00:36:30 +0200 <hololeap> that's surprising to me since foldl would work with infinite streams, but I suppose mono-traversable isn't set up for that
2021-05-30 00:36:48 +0200DrezilallePronomDrezil
2021-05-30 00:38:10 +0200 <pavonia> I'm really confused that there isn't a function for this in bytestring already. Running an action for each element seems such a common use-case to me
2021-05-30 00:39:06 +0200 <hololeap> my guess is that it's actually an unusal use case to run an action for each byte
2021-05-30 00:39:19 +0200 <monochrom> What I know so far is ByteString's foldr uses accursedUnutterablePerformIO
2021-05-30 00:39:32 +0200justBullthe
2021-05-30 00:39:39 +0200thejustBull
2021-05-30 00:39:54 +0200 <monochrom> OK it is lazy enough to be efficient for this purpose.
2021-05-30 00:40:12 +0200justBulljustbull
2021-05-30 00:41:06 +0200 <monochrom> And meta-ly, what hololeap says.
2021-05-30 00:41:21 +0200 <monochrom> There are two very simple principles.
2021-05-30 00:41:37 +0200 <monochrom> 1. Everyone has a different conviction of what counts as common.
2021-05-30 00:42:06 +0200 <monochrom> 2. You are not an author of that library.
2021-05-30 00:42:08 +0200 <hololeap> FWIW, vector has mapM_
2021-05-30 00:42:10 +0200 <hololeap> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.12.3.0/docs/Data-Vector.html#v:mapM_
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2021-05-30 00:47:40 +0200justbulljustBull
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2021-05-30 01:07:29 +0200 <jumper149> Hi, I'm looking for good resource on strictness. I want to be able to accurately use BangPatterns.
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2021-05-30 02:19:20 +0200pavonia_pavonia
2021-05-30 02:19:23 +0200 <edwardk> am finally back in berkeley
2021-05-30 02:19:27 +0200littlefinger(~00000000@selfhost1.threedot14.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:19:30 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.117) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:19:31 +0200 <edwardk> oops, wrong channel
2021-05-30 02:19:39 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830::26) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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2021-05-30 02:20:40 +0200 <yushyin> anyway, good for you ;)
2021-05-30 02:20:49 +0200Guest3432julm
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2021-05-30 02:22:15 +0200 <edwardk> its good to be home
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2021-05-30 02:24:27 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-05-30 02:26:26 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b845d00f006a2925a261e5e856.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:26:56 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.85) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:28:28 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-30 02:29:02 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Quit: finn_elija)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:e000:429f:c9d9:8a31:8fef) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:29:24 +0200_bin(~bin@user/bin/x-1583188) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 02:30:03 +0200renzhi(~xp@2607:fa49:6500:bc00::e7b)
2021-05-30 02:30:17 +0200sbmsr_(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
2021-05-30 02:30:40 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-05-30 02:31:27 +0200_bin(~bin@user/bin/x-1583188)
2021-05-30 02:32:34 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.114)
2021-05-30 02:33:02 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-05-30 02:33:17 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.46) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 02:33:28 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a310:b600:b098:bf18:df4d:4c41) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-30 02:33:55 +0200maralorn[m](~maralorn@2001:470:69fc:105::251)
2021-05-30 02:34:04 +0200river(~river@tilde.team/user/river)
2021-05-30 02:34:21 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 02:36:00 +0200river(~river@tilde.team/user/river) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 02:36:20 +0200river(~river@tilde.team/user/river)
2021-05-30 02:36:50 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.114) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:36:55 +0200anonymous(~river@tilde.team/user/river) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:38:18 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-05-30 02:38:18 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:e000:429f:c9d9:8a31:8fef)
2021-05-30 02:38:18 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b)
2021-05-30 02:38:18 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko)
2021-05-30 02:38:18 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 02:38:39 +0200sm[m](~sm@plaintextaccounting/sm)
2021-05-30 02:39:21 +0200Guest78(~Guest78@47-184-217-198.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net)
2021-05-30 02:40:18 +0200km2m(~km2m@27.23.192.86)
2021-05-30 02:42:15 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 02:43:42 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.173.45)
2021-05-30 02:44:45 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.111)
2021-05-30 02:45:02 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-30 02:50:35 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:51:07 +0200superstar64_(~superstar@2600:1700:ed80:50a0:d250:99ff:fe2c:53c4) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-30 02:51:35 +0200Guest78(~Guest78@47-184-217-198.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Client closed)
2021-05-30 02:55:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:55:26 +0200CarlosPrez-Aradr(~CarlosPre@223.204.240.206)
2021-05-30 02:55:26 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:55:26 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:e000:429f:c9d9:8a31:8fef) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-30 02:57:34 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com)
2021-05-30 02:57:45 +0200beka_beka
2021-05-30 02:59:05 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
2021-05-30 02:59:10 +0200allbery_bgeekosaur
2021-05-30 03:01:29 +0200CarlosPrez-Aradr(~CarlosPre@223.204.240.206) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:01:29 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:01:29 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:01:29 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:01:55 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 03:02:08 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.202.217)
2021-05-30 03:04:50 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 03:05:56 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.114)
2021-05-30 03:06:31 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:06:52 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:06:57 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 03:07:03 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@port-92-195-27-248.dynamic.as20676.net)
2021-05-30 03:07:03 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-05-30 03:07:03 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko)
2021-05-30 03:07:56 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d6008c50015b1eae29d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-30 03:08:21 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@port-92-195-27-248.dynamic.as20676.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:08:21 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:08:21 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko) (*.net *.split)
2021-05-30 03:08:37 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:e000:429f:c9d9:8a31:8fef)
2021-05-30 03:10:24 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.114) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:10:29 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko)
2021-05-30 03:11:35 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.111) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 03:11:51 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-05-30 03:12:49 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d6008c50015b1eae29d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:15:26 +0200gambpang(~ian@207.181.230.156)
2021-05-30 03:18:00 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-30 03:19:35 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-177-159.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:21:00 +0200km2m(~km2m@27.23.192.86) (Leaving)
2021-05-30 03:23:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.44)
2021-05-30 03:24:44 +0200tremon_(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: getting boxed in)
2021-05-30 03:25:39 +0200dmj`peeks in
2021-05-30 03:25:42 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.202.217) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-05-30 03:25:57 +0200hmmmas(~chenqisu1@183.217.202.217)
2021-05-30 03:25:58 +0200geekosaurwaves
2021-05-30 03:27:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.44) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:31:34 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-05-30 03:32:05 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@71-34-10-193.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 03:34:46 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b)
2021-05-30 03:35:31 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:1ce2:60be:87c4:3248)
2021-05-30 03:37:21 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5217:e000:429f:c9d9:8a31:8fef) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:38:07 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.173.45) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-30 03:38:48 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5252:9d00:7ae5:3b91:ab39:a8b6)
2021-05-30 03:40:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.150)
2021-05-30 03:41:41 +0200dpl(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:42:54 +0200beka(~beka@104.193.170-254.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:43:26 +0200Deide(~Deide@user/deide) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-05-30 03:45:54 +0200brian_da_mage(~Neuromanc@user/briandamag) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 03:46:39 +0200Shailangsa_(~shailangs@host165-120-169-73.range165-120.btcentralplus.com)
2021-05-30 03:49:34 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:8f7:7cd4:97ed:dc53) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-30 03:50:58 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
2021-05-30 03:51:24 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-05-30 03:54:59 +0200cyclosa(~cyclosa@2603-6011-4a41-8ada-3d44-ff2a-130a-5b15.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-30 03:57:06 +0200dmj`waves back
2021-05-30 03:59:38 +0200cyclosa(~cyclosa@2603-6011-4a41-8ada-3d44-ff2a-130a-5b15.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-30 03:59:59 +0200cyclosa(~cyclosa@2603-6011-4a41-8ada-3d44-ff2a-130a-5b15.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-30 04:00:06 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.30)
2021-05-30 04:00:17 +0200cyclosa(~cyclosa@2603-6011-4a41-8ada-3d44-ff2a-130a-5b15.res6.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 04:00:43 +0200cyclosa(~cyclosa@2603-6011-4a41-8ada-3d44-ff2a-130a-5b15.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-30 04:01:40 +0200leeb(~leeb@KD111239159143.au-net.ne.jp)
2021-05-30 04:05:07 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.30) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:09:49 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
2021-05-30 04:09:51 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 04:10:20 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-05-30 04:11:49 +0200beka(~beka@104-244-27-23.static.monkeybrains.net)
2021-05-30 04:12:17 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 04:12:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.150) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 04:12:43 +0200Ranhir(~Ranhir@157.97.53.139)
2021-05-30 04:14:04 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-30 04:14:05 +0200FinnElijaGuest5310
2021-05-30 04:14:05 +0200finn_elijaFinnElija
2021-05-30 04:17:26 +0200Guest5310(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:18:06 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex)
2021-05-30 04:18:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.63)
2021-05-30 04:23:06 +0200shiraeeshi(~shiraeesh@5.101.59.190) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:23:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.63) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:23:29 +0200geekosaur(~geekosaur@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:23:51 +0200grnman_(~gandalf@c-73-49-209-161.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 04:25:41 +0200nonzen_(~sajith@2604:a880:800:a1::ed:8001)
2021-05-30 04:27:43 +0200nonzen_nonzen
2021-05-30 04:32:26 +0200nonzen(~sajith@2604:a880:800:a1::ed:8001) (Changing host)
2021-05-30 04:32:26 +0200nonzen(~sajith@user/nonzen)
2021-05-30 04:33:37 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.167) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:34:50 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.12)
2021-05-30 04:35:58 +0200astraamish
2021-05-30 04:36:27 +0200amishastra
2021-05-30 04:37:12 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-30 04:37:45 +0200nonzen(~sajith@user/nonzen) (Quit: Gone)
2021-05-30 04:38:16 +0200nonzen(~sajith@user/nonzen)
2021-05-30 04:38:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.35)
2021-05-30 04:40:25 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-30 04:40:47 +0200aighearach(~paris@c-71-63-160-210.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 04:41:35 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:21da:7ddc:2cc6:a10c)
2021-05-30 04:43:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.35) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:44:30 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk) (Quit: The BNC has broken!)
2021-05-30 04:44:42 +0200Hobbyboy(Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk)
2021-05-30 04:45:11 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.189)
2021-05-30 04:45:16 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:45:18 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.49)
2021-05-30 04:49:09 +0200doublex_(~doublex@2601:542:c480:6ee0:184b:7083:f026:c689)
2021-05-30 04:49:42 +0200nerdy(znc@user/nerdypepper) (Quit: bye)
2021-05-30 04:50:04 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.49) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:50:07 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.189) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:51:24 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Quit: FinnElija)
2021-05-30 04:51:25 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.111)
2021-05-30 04:51:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-30 04:53:06 +0200doublex(~doublex@2601:542:c480:6ee0:a5a3:1270:f9ea:4275) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:53:24 +0200nerdy(znc@152.67.162.71)
2021-05-30 04:55:01 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-30 04:56:04 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.111) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 04:57:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.130)
2021-05-30 04:57:35 +0200kaos01(~kaos01@119.198.76.137)
2021-05-30 04:57:35 +0200kaos01(~kaos01@119.198.76.137) (K-Lined)
2021-05-30 04:58:11 +0200cdepillabout[m](~cdepillab@2001:470:69fc:105::3d3)
2021-05-30 05:00:46 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
2021-05-30 05:01:26 +0200donny(~donny@97-123-122-179.albq.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 05:01:47 +0200donnyLoshii
2021-05-30 05:02:03 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.130) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:02:46 +0200Loshii(~donny@97-123-122-179.albq.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 05:03:36 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.108)
2021-05-30 05:04:34 +0200berberman_(~berberman@user/berberman)
2021-05-30 05:05:34 +0200berberman(~berberman@user/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:08:38 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.108) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:08:58 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d6008c50015b1eae29d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-30 05:09:45 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.30)
2021-05-30 05:11:22 +0200juhp(~juhp@bb219-75-40-154.singnet.com.sg)
2021-05-30 05:13:34 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d6008c50015b1eae29d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:14:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.30) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:15:53 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.114)
2021-05-30 05:16:51 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.202)
2021-05-30 05:17:09 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-05-30 05:18:19 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:1ce2:60be:87c4:3248) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-30 05:19:39 +0200otto_s_(~user@p5de2f103.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-30 05:19:53 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-30 05:20:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.114) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:21:12 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.165) (Quit: alx741)
2021-05-30 05:21:34 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.202) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:21:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.115)
2021-05-30 05:22:56 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2fc29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:23:40 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:23:50 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-05-30 05:24:54 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-05-30 05:25:23 +0200desophos(~desophos@2601:249:1680:a570:b170:b4c1:43cc:3e8)
2021-05-30 05:26:27 +0200jaevanko(~jaevanko@2600:1700:1330:2bef:c7ed:8ef0:f679:63bd)
2021-05-30 05:26:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.115) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:26:31 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 05:26:53 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 05:28:06 +0200jaevanko(~jaevanko@2600:1700:1330:2bef:c7ed:8ef0:f679:63bd) (Client Quit)
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2021-05-30 06:08:08 +0200octarine(~octarine@nttkyo1727245.tkyo.nt.ngn.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp)
2021-05-30 06:10:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.88)
2021-05-30 06:10:48 +0200 <octarine> Hi guys, can anyone look at a function I have written in Haskell (I am quite a newbie at it), and see whether it can be simplified? It is 20 lines long including comments.
2021-05-30 06:14:47 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 06:15:14 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.88) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 06:16:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-30 06:18:02 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.173.45)
2021-05-30 06:18:18 +0200radw(~radw@user/radw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 06:19:28 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@71-34-10-193.mpls.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 06:20:04 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 06:21:18 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@71-34-10-193.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 06:21:52 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 06:22:59 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17)
2021-05-30 06:23:39 +0200 <wroathe> octarine: Don't ask to ask, just ask (and share a link)
2021-05-30 06:24:01 +0200 <octarine> Ok, here it is: https://ideone.com/P1Y2WK
2021-05-30 06:24:32 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.85)
2021-05-30 06:26:23 +0200ordinate(~ordinate@c-68-38-144-3.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 06:26:40 +0200 <ordinate> good evening
2021-05-30 06:27:52 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-30 06:36:25 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
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2021-05-30 08:24:28 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-05-30 08:27:43 +0200leptest
2021-05-30 08:28:12 +0200testGuest3178
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2021-05-30 08:34:29 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 08:34:36 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.110) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 08:43:56 +0200 <werneta> octarine: something like this? https://ideone.com/FkLE74
2021-05-30 08:43:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.176)
2021-05-30 08:46:26 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.36)
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2021-05-30 09:10:54 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh)
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2021-05-30 09:12:51 +0200beka(~beka@104.193.170-254.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
2021-05-30 09:12:59 +0200 <xsperry> > M.fromListWith (\x y -> x ++ y) $ map (\(x,y) -> (x, [y])) [(1,"one"),(2,"two"),(1,"uno")]
2021-05-30 09:13:01 +0200 <lambdabot> fromList [(1,["uno","one"]),(2,["two"])]
2021-05-30 09:13:31 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-05-30 09:14:41 +0200 <xsperry> > M.fromListWith (++) $ map (\(x,y) -> (x, [y])) [(1,"one"),(2,"two"),(1,"uno")]
2021-05-30 09:14:42 +0200 <lambdabot> fromList [(1,["uno","one"]),(2,["two"])]
2021-05-30 09:14:44 +0200Guest30(~Guest30@188.64.207.237) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-30 09:15:29 +0200fgaz[m](~fgazmatri@2001:470:69fc:105::842)
2021-05-30 09:15:43 +0200 <xsperry> > M.fromListWith (++) $ map (second (:[])) [(1,"one"),(2,"two"),(1,"uno")]
2021-05-30 09:15:45 +0200 <lambdabot> fromList [(1,["uno","one"]),(2,["two"])]
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2021-05-30 09:18:19 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
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2021-05-30 09:22:59 +0200mrosenbemjrosenb
2021-05-30 09:23:33 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.19)
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2021-05-30 09:29:24 +0200 <xerox> :t M.map ($[]) . M.fromListWith (.) . map (second (:))
2021-05-30 09:29:25 +0200 <lambdabot> Ord k => [(k, a)] -> M.Map k [a]
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2021-05-30 10:23:03 +0200 <mc47> Out of curiosity, is anyone using haskell for machine learning in a production setting?
2021-05-30 10:23:53 +0200fendor_(~fendor@178.165.165.191.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-05-30 10:26:14 +0200Bartosz(~textual@24.35.90.211)
2021-05-30 10:26:47 +0200 <maerwald> mc47: I think Holmusk does, at least their backend is haskell and they do machine learning. It's ofc possible they still use Scala or whatnot for that part of the pipeline.
2021-05-30 10:26:50 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.129.15.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 10:27:45 +0200 <maerwald> You can ping their CTO on LinkedIn maybe, they used to have a vivid tech blog a few years ago. Not sure that's still the case.
2021-05-30 10:29:31 +0200gzj(~GZJ0X@185.212.59.97.16clouds.com)
2021-05-30 10:31:42 +0200 <mc47> maerwald, thank you, I'll check it out
2021-05-30 10:31:43 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-05-30 10:32:10 +0200 <mc47> I'm just having a course on deep learning, and I found haskell quite a good candidate for the kinds of tasks we were doing
2021-05-30 10:33:48 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.23)
2021-05-30 10:34:26 +0200 <mc47> any libraries or frameworks I should checkout?
2021-05-30 10:34:56 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.137)
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2021-05-30 10:41:32 +0200superstar64(~superstar@2600:1700:ed80:50a0:d250:99ff:fe2c:53c4)
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2021-05-30 10:42:14 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 10:42:17 +0200 <superstar64> is it possible to convert a `ST s1 (ST s2 a)` into `ST s2 (ST s1 a)`?
2021-05-30 10:42:51 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@112.199.250.21) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-05-30 10:49:31 +0200 <int-e> no. how does that even come up?
2021-05-30 10:50:30 +0200 <superstar64> i'm just curious, i'm design a language with what i call "phantom pair" and which linear types, `ST` is complete with them
2021-05-30 10:50:59 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-05-30 10:51:06 +0200dunham(~dunham@97-113-35-16.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 10:51:06 +0200 <superstar64> would `ST` break if `ST s1 (ST s2 a) -> ST s2 (ST s1 a)` was allowed?
2021-05-30 10:52:41 +0200 <int-e> I don't know what that is to do, operationally.
2021-05-30 10:52:43 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d600c4e4ce0fc87c474b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 10:53:21 +0200ubh(~ubh@2001:470:69fc:105::852)
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2021-05-30 10:53:48 +0200autophagy(~mika@user/autophagy)
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2021-05-30 10:54:47 +0200 <superstar64> `Kleisli (ST s)` is `(a, s) -> (a, s)` where `s` is either a real world or a type variable. these `(,)` aren't actual pairs (rhs isn't can't be a runtime)
2021-05-30 10:55:17 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko) (Quit: i will be back)
2021-05-30 10:55:25 +0200 <superstar64> i'm trying to see if can sane semantics for these types of pairs so i can be complete with ST
2021-05-30 10:55:38 +0200 <superstar64> or i should just go for making `ST` a builtin
2021-05-30 10:55:48 +0200niko(~niko@libera/staff/niko)
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2021-05-30 10:56:05 +0200brian_da_mage(~Neuromanc@user/briandamag)
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2021-05-30 10:59:41 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-30 11:01:34 +0200 <int-e> @djinn (s1 -> (s2 -> (a, s2), s1)) -> (s2 -> (s1 -> (a, s1), s2))
2021-05-30 11:01:34 +0200 <lambdabot> f a b =
2021-05-30 11:01:34 +0200 <lambdabot> (\ c ->
2021-05-30 11:01:34 +0200 <lambdabot> case a c of
2021-05-30 11:01:35 +0200 <lambdabot> (d, e) -> case d b of
2021-05-30 11:01:35 +0200 <lambdabot> (f, _) -> (f, e),
2021-05-30 11:01:36 +0200 <lambdabot> b)
2021-05-30 11:03:02 +0200 <superstar64> ok, it's ignoring one of the pair's item, seems like that should be illegal in a linear setting
2021-05-30 11:03:10 +0200 <int-e> You /can/ do this, but note that b , which is supposed to be a state token, gets duplicated. Oh and another state token gets discarded. So it's not reasonable in an ST context.
2021-05-30 11:03:40 +0200 <int-e> And I think the type does dictate that implementation, there is no other way.
2021-05-30 11:03:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 11:04:33 +0200 <superstar64> i'm also wondering what the ST equivalent of `(a, s1, s2) -> (a, s2, s1)` would be
2021-05-30 11:06:18 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@71-34-10-193.mpls.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 11:07:23 +0200 <int-e> It doesn't come up since the ST type is restricted to a single state token type that's totally opaque? I mean, there's no ST operations that work with a product of states.
2021-05-30 11:07:51 +0200koishi_(~koishi_@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-30 11:08:06 +0200 <int-e> I.e. there's no support for separation of the state into independent parts.
2021-05-30 11:08:06 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.56)
2021-05-30 11:08:11 +0200 <siraben> @djinn a %1-> a
2021-05-30 11:08:11 +0200 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command
2021-05-30 11:08:38 +0200 <int-e> superstar64: It is something that would make sense though. It's just isn't supported.
2021-05-30 11:10:04 +0200 <superstar64> i'm just kinda nervous that my idea might be inconsistent or not referentially transparent
2021-05-30 11:10:20 +0200 <int-e> Probably hard to express with the way runST works...
2021-05-30 11:10:51 +0200 <int-e> @type runST -- s can be any type, but for doing separation nicely we would need products.
2021-05-30 11:10:53 +0200 <lambdabot> (forall s. ST s a) -> a
2021-05-30 11:11:21 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-30 11:12:10 +0200Guest73(~Guest73@c188-150-57-96.bredband.tele2.se)
2021-05-30 11:12:29 +0200 <int-e> But, just for fun, one could have (forall s1 s2. ST (s1,s2) a) -> ST s a, and then injections ST s1 a -> ST (s1, s2) a and ST s2 a -> ST (s1, s2) a, without breaking ST semantics.
2021-05-30 11:12:56 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.137)
2021-05-30 11:13:04 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.56) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 11:14:34 +0200 <int-e> I'm mostly just musing, this doesn't seem to be too useful.
2021-05-30 11:15:58 +0200GOD(~mad@user/god)
2021-05-30 11:16:33 +0200 <superstar64> well, i might have a use for it, you might want both a state thread and `real world` for intermitting side effects regioned memory pointers
2021-05-30 11:16:36 +0200 <int-e> superstar64: in any case, I think that then you /could/ have a sound coercion between ST (s1,s2) a and ST (s2,s1) a.
2021-05-30 11:17:23 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.137) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 11:17:36 +0200 <superstar64> *side effects and regioned
2021-05-30 11:22:36 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:f131:7ff:d61f:7340)
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2021-05-30 11:27:35 +0200 <wz1000> superstar64: it you have an ST with arena style allocation semantics rather than a GC it will break
2021-05-30 11:27:36 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@176.164.30.239)
2021-05-30 11:28:36 +0200 <superstar64> how will it break? i'm not planning on having a gc though
2021-05-30 11:29:24 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a310:b600:b098:bf18:df4d:4c41)
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2021-05-30 11:30:57 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.74) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 11:31:54 +0200 <wz1000> If you turn `ST s1 (ST s2 a)` into `ST s2 (ST s1 a)`, and `s2 < s1`, then there might be things in region s2 that reference things in region s1, but these references will be dangling if you free region s1 but not s2
2021-05-30 11:32:21 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@176.164.30.239)
2021-05-30 11:32:27 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de)
2021-05-30 11:32:42 +0200 <superstar64> right, i got that `ST s1 (ST s2 a) -> ST s2 (ST s1 a)` is illegal
2021-05-30 11:32:51 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@176.164.30.239) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 11:34:03 +0200danidiaz1(~ESDPC@static-102-64-63-95.ipcom.comunitel.net)
2021-05-30 11:34:07 +0200 <superstar64> wz1000, , vanilla ST doesn't break with a regions at least right?
2021-05-30 11:34:09 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@103.244.176.36)
2021-05-30 11:34:32 +0200 <superstar64> i wonder it can help GHC optimizes ST
2021-05-30 11:34:44 +0200 <wz1000> No, ST is just IO
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2021-05-30 12:31:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.189) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 12:32:04 +0200 <siers> I have no threaded code, but compiling with -threaded -with-rtsopts='-N8' makes it 28% slower (32s/41s)
2021-05-30 12:32:17 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-30 12:32:53 +0200 <siers> well, maybe some of the things I'm using are threaded, but I'm not sure what exactly... htop certainly shows it's using all cores
2021-05-30 12:33:43 +0200 <Rembane> siers: What's your program doing on a high level?
2021-05-30 12:33:54 +0200 <Rembane> siers: What are the dependencies?
2021-05-30 12:34:05 +0200 <koishi_> could be GC
2021-05-30 12:34:36 +0200 <siers> updating IntMaps, i/o on a mutable vector
2021-05-30 12:35:08 +0200 <koishi_> enabling threaded runtime can hurt performance if your code doesn't make active use of parallelism
2021-05-30 12:38:36 +0200 <Rembane> siers: Got it. Since it was way too long ago I experimented with parallel and concurrernt code in Haskell I think it's best to just use the fastest runtime settings, but there's probably someone else here who has a more informed opinion. :)
2021-05-30 12:39:05 +0200 <siers> I can also shaer the code, if you want, but it's 1k LOC
2021-05-30 12:39:21 +0200dunham(~dunham@97-113-35-16.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 12:39:32 +0200Cubic(~hannesste@ip5f5be453.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-05-30 12:39:34 +0200lieuwex(~lieuwelie@2001:470:69fc:105::4e6)
2021-05-30 12:39:40 +0200 <siers> koishi_, with parallelInterleaved from parallel-io I shaved off some seconds, but I was just surprised it's not a little more
2021-05-30 12:40:17 +0200 <Rembane> siers: Check out Criterion see what is taking time. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/criterion
2021-05-30 12:41:13 +0200toppler(~user@mtop.default.momentoftop.uk0.bigv.io)
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2021-05-30 12:44:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> edwardk: the topic still says the matrix bridge is coming soon, but it seems to be up now (and working quite well, hearing from friends)
2021-05-30 12:45:19 +0200 <lieuwex> officially it is still "in testing" though if I'm not mistaken
2021-05-30 12:46:08 +0200nilof(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-30 12:46:21 +0200 <koishi_> siers actually you can try reducing -N
2021-05-30 12:46:53 +0200 <koishi_> My laptop has 6 cores, but -N2 always gives me best performance
2021-05-30 12:46:53 +0200zeenk2(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a310:b600:b098:bf18:df4d:4c41)
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2021-05-30 12:47:32 +0200 <koishi_> Moreover, try using +RTS -s to see how well GC is doing, and adjust -A / -H if needed
2021-05-30 12:48:04 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
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2021-05-30 12:50:36 +0200arrowd(~arr@2.94.203.147)
2021-05-30 12:50:54 +0200 <arrowd> Hello. I have OP on #haskell-freebsd @ Freenode. Can I get it on Libera too?
2021-05-30 12:50:59 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
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2021-05-30 12:52:36 +0200 <siers> koishi_, -N2 gives you the best results? :/ that is too bad
2021-05-30 12:52:42 +0200tremon(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2021-05-30 12:52:55 +0200Artem[m](~artemtype@2001:470:69fc:105::75b)
2021-05-30 12:54:08 +0200Guest31(~textual@cpc146410-hari22-2-0-cust124.20-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 12:54:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> siers: have you tried passing '+RTS -qg'? Haven't really followed the conversation, but it seems like it wasn't mentioned yet
2021-05-30 12:54:18 +0200jonathanclarke(~jonathanc@103.10.31.50) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 12:54:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> that does something with making the GC run per-thread or so, I don't know the details but for many programs it's a huge speedup, especially with large -N
2021-05-30 12:55:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> though apparently with recent GHC versions the parallel GC has gotten better
2021-05-30 12:56:06 +0200 <maerwald> arrowd: ping edwardk
2021-05-30 12:56:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 12:58:03 +0200otto_s(~user@p5de2f103.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-30 12:58:55 +0200mikoto-c1(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-05-30 12:59:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-30 12:59:20 +0200 <siers> tomsmeding, slightly better, but still only equal to running time with -N1
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2021-05-30 13:15:03 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-188-96.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-30 13:15:14 +0200danidiaz(~ESDPC@static-102-64-63-95.ipcom.comunitel.net)
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2021-05-30 13:17:04 +0200APic(apic@apic.name)
2021-05-30 13:17:07 +0200 <junkicide> how do extract a from Just a (for example, I want 5 from Just 5)
2021-05-30 13:17:20 +0200 <maerwald> :t fromJust
2021-05-30 13:17:21 +0200 <lambdabot> Maybe a -> a
2021-05-30 13:18:52 +0200danidiaz1(~ESDPC@static-102-64-63-95.ipcom.comunitel.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:19:18 +0200 <siers> what if 5 is in an IO, then how do I extract it? /s
2021-05-30 13:19:23 +0200 <juri_> :t maybe
2021-05-30 13:19:24 +0200 <lambdabot> b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b
2021-05-30 13:19:30 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-188-96.wlan.uio.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:19:42 +0200 <maerwald> :t unsafePerformIO
2021-05-30 13:19:43 +0200 <xsperry> junkicide, you should usually pattern match over using fromJust
2021-05-30 13:19:43 +0200 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: unsafePerformIO
2021-05-30 13:19:53 +0200 <maerwald> siers: that
2021-05-30 13:19:57 +0200 <siers> maerwald, :P could've said "*maybe* you don't"
2021-05-30 13:20:10 +0200 <maerwald> xsperry: they said they have `Just 5` so it's already matched
2021-05-30 13:20:56 +0200 <siers> junkicide, to elaborate on what xsperry said, fromJust is implemented by pattern matching with the implemention of error "failed match" in case of a Nothing
2021-05-30 13:21:12 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-188-96.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-30 13:21:49 +0200zebrag(~chris@user/zebrag)
2021-05-30 13:23:02 +0200 <koishi_> writing partial functions is usually a bad idea tho
2021-05-30 13:23:33 +0200 <maerwald> I beg to differ
2021-05-30 13:23:57 +0200 <maerwald> most of your haskell programs is partial functions, most likely
2021-05-30 13:24:04 +0200 <maerwald> all IO is partial
2021-05-30 13:24:34 +0200 <maerwald> because there's no proper pattern matching on exceptions
2021-05-30 13:24:54 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: That's a poor justification for using head and fromJust all over the place.
2021-05-30 13:25:05 +0200 <maerwald> Vq: no one said "all over the place"
2021-05-30 13:25:23 +0200 <juri_> I'm trying to apply stan to my codebase. only 460 complaints to go!
2021-05-30 13:25:25 +0200 <maerwald> if I have local proof inside a function, I will use fromJust and friends just fine
2021-05-30 13:25:27 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: It's still beneficial to avoid them.
2021-05-30 13:25:33 +0200 <maerwald> Vq: depends
2021-05-30 13:25:43 +0200 <maerwald> I'm very much againt "total prelude" as an idea
2021-05-30 13:26:32 +0200 <maerwald> if you use `fromJust` on *user input*, that's obviously a pretty bad idea
2021-05-30 13:27:52 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spacecookie-1.0.0.0/docs/src/Network.Gopher.Util.html#stripNew…
2021-05-30 13:27:53 +0200 <Rembane> But fun! :D
2021-05-30 13:28:01 +0200 <maerwald> here, it uses head
2021-05-30 13:28:08 +0200 <maerwald> and it's perfectly total (the function)
2021-05-30 13:28:16 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.30)
2021-05-30 13:29:28 +0200 <maerwald> pattern matching isn't always a sensible option
2021-05-30 13:29:29 +0200 <siers> maerwald, I agree with what you're saying, but everyone is always so eager to make sure that you know what you're doing that it's almost better not to say anything
2021-05-30 13:30:18 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: I do things like that myself from time to time and that's a good example of when it reads better.
2021-05-30 13:30:25 +0200tremon_(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2021-05-30 13:30:35 +0200autophagian(~mika@user/autophagy)
2021-05-30 13:31:16 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: But if your function is any larger it will require more thought when changing it.
2021-05-30 13:31:24 +0200APic(apic@apic.name) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-05-30 13:31:25 +0200tremon(~tremon@217-63-61-89.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-05-30 13:31:25 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:31:25 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-05-30 13:31:30 +0200nonzen_(~sajith@user/nonzen)
2021-05-30 13:31:40 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: Whereas if you used pattern matching and total functions everywhere it's alright to be slightly drunk.
2021-05-30 13:32:14 +0200 <maerwald> Vq: most of my own codes complexity comes from IO exceptions and IO-things done wrong
2021-05-30 13:32:45 +0200rahguzar75(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-30 13:32:52 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-30 13:33:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.30) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:33:17 +0200arrowd_(~arr@2.94.203.147)
2021-05-30 13:33:18 +0200ubikium(~ubikium@113x43x248x70.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:33:34 +0200 <maerwald> And... having Maybe everywhere isn't exactly a proper application error handling system
2021-05-30 13:33:34 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: That's probably universal, I just don't think it justifies making code not dependent on IO more fragile under change.
2021-05-30 13:33:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.103)
2021-05-30 13:34:01 +0200 <zebrag> maerwald: I'm intrigued by that "local proof inside a function".
2021-05-30 13:34:09 +0200poljar1(~poljar@78-2-43-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-30 13:34:12 +0200 <Vq> maerwald: No arguments there.
2021-05-30 13:34:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:34:47 +0200 <maerwald> so if you talk total... use proper data structures, like NonEmptyList
2021-05-30 13:34:53 +0200 <Vq> zebrag: The spacecookie example was a good example
2021-05-30 13:35:08 +0200rahguzar75(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 13:35:16 +0200 <Vq> zebrag: It's obvious the null-case is handled
2021-05-30 13:35:21 +0200poljar(~poljar@93-141-135-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:24 +0200rahguzar30(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-30 13:35:34 +0200 <zebrag> Vq: do you have a link to that, I'm not familiar with it
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200arrowd(~arr@2.94.203.147) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200danidiaz(~ESDPC@static-102-64-63-95.ipcom.comunitel.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5252:9d00:7ae5:3b91:ab39:a8b6) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5252:9d00:7ae5:3b91:ab39:a8b6)
2021-05-30 13:35:37 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.85)
2021-05-30 13:35:55 +0200 <Vq> 13:27 < maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spacecookie-1.0.0.0/docs/src/Network.Gopher.Util.html#stripNew…
2021-05-30 13:36:04 +0200 <Vq> 13:27 < maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/spacecookie-1.0.0.0/docs/src/Network.Gopher.Util.html#stripNew…
2021-05-30 13:36:06 +0200 <zebrag> thanks
2021-05-30 13:36:17 +0200rahguzar30(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 13:36:17 +0200APic(apic@apic.name)
2021-05-30 13:36:32 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-30 13:36:48 +0200wolfshappen(~waff@irc.furworks.de)
2021-05-30 13:37:12 +0200 <Vq> Sorry about the twofer, my copy-paste skills are lacking. :(
2021-05-30 13:37:30 +0200 <Vq> Maybe there's a course on that for programmers...
2021-05-30 13:38:36 +0200holy_(~h01y_b4z0@2400:adc1:178:c800:9e45:76a9:57f2:1665) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:38:39 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.103) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-30 13:39:09 +0200 <zebrag> Yes, it's for seasoned programmers only
2021-05-30 13:40:00 +0200junkicid`(~user@2a01:e0a:195:20c0:25dd:142f:ddb3:ffc5)
2021-05-30 13:40:56 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@176.164.30.239)
2021-05-30 13:41:29 +0200junkicide(~user@2a01:e0a:195:20c0:25dd:142f:ddb3:ffc5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-30 13:41:40 +0200 <Vq> I see a lot of younger programmers practicing it, I can't speak for their skill though.
2021-05-30 13:41:55 +0200 <maerwald> lol
2021-05-30 13:42:19 +0200 <maerwald> learning programming is learning copy-paste
2021-05-30 13:43:06 +0200 <zebrag> Of course you're not supposed to write the code yourself
2021-05-30 13:44:03 +0200ubikium(~ubikium@113x43x248x70.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net)
2021-05-30 13:44:15 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@2a02:aa1:160f:6341:a91d:75a7:be4a:e593) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-30 13:45:34 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.43)
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2021-05-30 13:46:42 +0200 <Vq> I'm more of an Emacs kill-yank person.
2021-05-30 13:49:44 +0200 <Vq> The X11 clipboard have confused me for decades.
2021-05-30 13:49:44 +0200 <zebrag> What is the word to speak about... okay found it already "infinite type". Not sure it's haskell related, was just looking up the definition. [https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4110/2012fa/lectures/lecture27.pdf]
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2021-05-30 13:53:21 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@2a02:aa1:160f:6341:a91d:75a7:be4a:e593)
2021-05-30 13:53:31 +0200 <zebrag> "infinite type" would be a "recursive (data) type" allowing for infinite constructions.
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2021-05-30 13:56:28 +0200 <zebrag> Vq: I use emacs-nox/wayland/wl-clipboard.
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2021-05-30 14:19:23 +0200 <nonzen_> info #tahoe-lafs
2021-05-30 14:19:26 +0200 <nonzen_> whoops
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2021-05-30 14:49:14 +0200 <Philonous> I'm trying to look at the TH splices of a module, so I'm calling cabal like this: »cabal build --ghc-options="-ddump-splices -ddump-to-file" <target>« but after it finishes I'm not finding the dumped output. What am I doing wrong?
2021-05-30 14:49:34 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-05-30 14:50:30 +0200 <Philonous> As in, »find . -iname '*.dump*'« doesn't find anything
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2021-05-30 15:38:06 +0200 <jco_> Hi, I'm going through the CIS 194 course, and I'm currently trying to use QuickCheck to do some property-based testing. So far, I've got a QuickCheck generator working for the expression type `data ExprT = Lit Integer | Add ExprT ExprT | Mul ExprT ExprT`. But then the exercise makes you also implement an interpreter of arithmetic expressions for a stack-based VM. So my current idea is to add a QuickCheck
2021-05-30 15:38:12 +0200 <jco_> property that verifies that all programs, interpreted and evaluated by the stack-based VM, give the same result as if interpreted as an "immediate" expression. One approach would be to pretty-print an ExprT-expression, then parse the resulting string as a `StackVM` program, and finally use /that/ to evaluate the program and verify that the result is the same as the result of immediately evaluating the
2021-05-30 15:38:18 +0200 <jco_> ExprT-expression. But maybe there are simpler/better ways of achieving this goal?
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2021-05-30 15:46:57 +0200sajithsajith_
2021-05-30 15:47:03 +0200sajith_sajith
2021-05-30 15:47:39 +0200 <Philonous> jco_, The thing I would go for would be to write a compiler ExprT -> StackVM and an interpreter for StackVM and then check that forall x: interpret_ExprT(x) === interpret_StackVM(compilter(x))
2021-05-30 15:48:05 +0200sajithsajith__
2021-05-30 15:48:12 +0200sajith__sajith
2021-05-30 15:48:38 +0200 <Philonous> or maybe in more haskelly syntax: interpretExprT x == interpretStackVM (compile x)
2021-05-30 15:49:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> what you currently have is essentially: compile x = parse (show x)
2021-05-30 15:50:00 +0200dunham(~dunham@97-113-35-16.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 15:50:24 +0200 <Philonous> Yes, was about to write that. The point is, you are proposing another intermediate representation that's just a string, which I think makes the problem harder and less tracktable
2021-05-30 15:50:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.34) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 15:50:47 +0200 <Philonous> If you want you can do that as well, but I would treat it as an additional problem with its own properties
2021-05-30 15:51:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> unless you already have those show and parse components anyway :)
2021-05-30 15:51:10 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 15:51:47 +0200 <Philonous> Sure, but in that case I would suggest writing a direct compile :: ExprT -> StackVM and then have a property that tests that for all x: compile x == parse (print x)
2021-05-30 15:54:54 +0200dunham(~dunham@97-113-35-16.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 15:55:37 +0200monadlight(~chris@bras-vprn-nwmkon8540w-lp130-19-184-147-249-234.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-05-30 15:56:03 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 15:56:35 +0200LukeHoersten(~LukeHoers@user/lukehoersten)
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2021-05-30 15:57:13 +0200 <jco_> Yes, I already have the parser functions for the various types. But immediately converting ("compiling") an ExprT to a StackVM program sounds more straight forward. I'll try that.
2021-05-30 15:57:18 +0200nonzen(~nonzen@user/nonzen)
2021-05-30 15:57:21 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-05-30 15:57:25 +0200 <monadlight> newbie question: how do I clean up GHC installed by Stack? And how do I know what versions/installations of GHC Stack has installed?
2021-05-30 15:57:50 +0200nonzen_(~nonzen@user/nonzen)
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2021-05-30 16:00:42 +0200 <jco_> monadlight: Maybe look in ~/.stack? I don't have any on my current machine so cannot verify for sure.
2021-05-30 16:00:53 +0200 <Philonous> monadlight, Under linux, it's under ~/.stack/programs/
2021-05-30 16:01:02 +0200Deide(~Deide@wire.desu.ga)
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2021-05-30 16:01:03 +0200Deide(~Deide@user/deide)
2021-05-30 16:01:22 +0200 <monadlight> I see a bunch of ghc in ~/.stack/programs but not couldn't find a stack command to propertly clean them up.
2021-05-30 16:01:39 +0200 <Philonous> I'm not sure there is one
2021-05-30 16:01:43 +0200 <monadlight> Do they just linger around forever?
2021-05-30 16:02:20 +0200berberman(~berberman@user/berberman)
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2021-05-30 16:03:14 +0200 <monadlight> If I delete everything in ~/.stack/programs, stack would just reinstall them next time....?
2021-05-30 16:03:15 +0200 <Philonous> As far as I'm aware, they do. I regularly delete everything in ~/.stack except the config file and stack will re-download what it needs
2021-05-30 16:03:18 +0200 <Philonous> Yes
2021-05-30 16:03:39 +0200 <monadlight> Cool
2021-05-30 16:03:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.33)
2021-05-30 16:04:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-30 16:04:42 +0200 <monadlight> There are like pantry.sqlite3 and other hackage index file... those are quite big too.
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2021-05-30 16:06:22 +0200 <Philonous> If you delete stuff, it will be rebuilt, which can take time and bandwidth, but otherwise it should be fine.
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2021-05-30 16:13:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> yeah stack doesn't really have cleanup commands for that, but the whole point of the design of stack means that if you delete stuff, it will be re-downloaded and/or rebuilt next time you need it
2021-05-30 16:13:37 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-30 16:13:55 +0200 <tomsmeding> though I'm not sure up to what point you can partially delete stuff; maybe it assumes that if half of a ghc installation is there, the rest is there too
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2021-05-30 16:45:36 +0200Maulwurf(~maulwurf@194.135.128.95) ()
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2021-05-30 17:06:09 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 17:07:10 +0200 <maerwald> well, good news... stack will very likely have to implement a self-cleanup command when the installer proposal is published
2021-05-30 17:08:53 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.85)
2021-05-30 17:10:53 +0200 <fosskers> A unified and blessed universal installer will be a great move forward.
2021-05-30 17:11:46 +0200 <maerwald> That's not going to happen anytime soon
2021-05-30 17:11:59 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 17:12:45 +0200 <cdsmith> maerwald: Why the pessimism? The process seems to be moving forward.
2021-05-30 17:12:53 +0200ystael(~ystael@user/ystael)
2021-05-30 17:13:05 +0200 <fosskers> Yeah actually, HF has an endeavour there.
2021-05-30 17:13:15 +0200 <maerwald> cdsmith: I'm part of the process. And as you can read on the discourse thread from Michael, there was no suggestion on how to remove the fragmentation.
2021-05-30 17:13:46 +0200 <maerwald> So we're focussing on how to have good standards for installers
2021-05-30 17:13:50 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.114)
2021-05-30 17:13:50 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.85) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 17:14:15 +0200 <cdsmith> That's too bad. :(
2021-05-30 17:14:33 +0200vicentius(~vicentius@user/vicentius)
2021-05-30 17:14:58 +0200 <maerwald> Well, it's the right decision
2021-05-30 17:15:57 +0200 <maerwald> You could say the first step to unification ARE the standards
2021-05-30 17:16:10 +0200 <maerwald> But ofc that's maybe step 1 out of 10
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2021-05-30 17:42:21 +0200 <tomsmeding> can't have unification if you don't have a thing to unify around
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2021-05-30 17:55:12 +0200[exa](~exa@user/exa/x-3587197)
2021-05-30 17:55:21 +0200 <jco_> Philonous: OK, had to take a break to watch 5 episodes of Cobra Kai, but that approach worked nicely! Cool to generate arbitrary "programs" using QuickCheck I must say.
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2021-05-30 17:59:20 +0200 <wroathe> maerwald: Do you happen to have said link on hand?
2021-05-30 17:59:31 +0200 <wroathe> maerwald: Or a link to said thread, rather?
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2021-05-30 18:05:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.85)
2021-05-30 18:06:22 +0200 <maerwald> wroathe: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/proposal-unified-installer/2468/33
2021-05-30 18:06:36 +0200 <wroathe> maerwald: Thanks
2021-05-30 18:07:20 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2021-05-30 18:23:30 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
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2021-05-30 18:26:46 +0200fosskers(~colin@S0106f0f249642f53.vn.shawcable.net)
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2021-05-30 18:27:17 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.111) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 18:28:43 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-05-30 18:30:48 +0200 <shiraeeshi> tomsmeding: ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com doesn't show freenode haskell logs and says to ask here
2021-05-30 18:31:31 +0200ubikium(~ubikium@113x43x248x70.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net) (Quit: Quit)
2021-05-30 18:31:41 +0200ubikium(~ubikium@113x43x248x70.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net)
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2021-05-30 18:32:22 +0200 <shiraeeshi> are those logs going to be available later?
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2021-05-30 19:05:05 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
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2021-05-30 19:05:24 +0200 <maerwald> if you have a point-free definition of a function, how does -XStrict behave... will it only insert bangs for the bindings you provide or will it eta-expand first?
2021-05-30 19:10:52 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-05-30 19:15:48 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169)
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2021-05-30 19:20:36 +0200whaletechno(~whaletech@user/whaletechno)
2021-05-30 19:20:41 +0200lavaman(~lavaman@98.38.249.169) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 19:21:51 +0200 <glguy> maerwald, I'd expect and hope it didn't expand first
2021-05-30 19:22:22 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Read error: No route to host)
2021-05-30 19:22:33 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-72-92-38-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-30 19:22:46 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-05-30 19:22:47 +0200 <maerwald> that makes sense, but is also kinda a pitfall
2021-05-30 19:22:48 +0200 <glguy> afaik it's just a simple random sprinkling of strictness bangs on the names in you patterns
2021-05-30 19:22:55 +0200Guest30(~Guest30@46-117-196-155.bb.netvision.net.il)
2021-05-30 19:23:01 +0200 <glguy> pitfall is the name of the game with -XStrict
2021-05-30 19:23:33 +0200 <maerwald> foo = \x -> bar -- will it insert for `x`?
2021-05-30 19:24:19 +0200qbt(~edun@user/edun) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-30 19:24:21 +0200 <glguy> That's my reading of https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/strict.html?highlight=xstrict#…
2021-05-30 19:24:35 +0200 <zebrag> Bartosz: Yes, the existence of a terminal object, of course, is what allows to consider elements inside objects, in Set. I spoke far too quickly yesterday.
2021-05-30 19:25:31 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 19:26:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> shiraeeshi: I still have those logs, would be fairly easy to put them up again. I mainly put up that notice to see if anyone actually cared about them :)
2021-05-30 19:28:25 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.202)
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2021-05-30 19:30:29 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@athedsl-20549.home.otenet.gr)
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2021-05-30 19:32:40 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-30 19:33:12 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.202) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 19:35:21 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-05-30 19:38:34 +0200 <Philonous> Is it normal that changing a »data« to a »newtype« in an unopportune place sends the inliner into a frenzy, blowing the resulting core up by an order of magnitude?
2021-05-30 19:39:16 +0200 <shiraeeshi> tomsmeding: you don't plan to delete them? can you send a copy to me?
2021-05-30 19:39:50 +0200 <[exa]> Philonous: newtypes simplify strictness analysis, thus open more inlining possibilities, and in turn the inliner may overdo it a bit, yes. :]
2021-05-30 19:39:56 +0200 <shiraeeshi> I have logs from tunes.org, they take up something like 250 mbs
2021-05-30 19:39:56 +0200smitop(uid328768@user/smitop)
2021-05-30 19:40:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> shiraeeshi: I'll put them up again until someone asks me to put them down :p
2021-05-30 19:40:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> I can also send you the plain znc logs if you wish
2021-05-30 19:40:22 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon) (WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-30 19:40:23 +0200 <shiraeeshi> yes please
2021-05-30 19:41:11 +0200 <davean> Philonous: data and newtype are deeply different
2021-05-30 19:41:12 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-05-30 19:41:45 +0200 <davean> Philonous: thats a bit of a weird result to get mind you, but it would come down to the case
2021-05-30 19:42:30 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex)
2021-05-30 19:42:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> shiraeeshi: https://tomsmeding.com/vang/TiewNq/freenode-logs.tar.gz
2021-05-30 19:42:54 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@athedsl-20549.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-30 19:43:01 +0200xosdy(~xosdy@125-227-78-46.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
2021-05-30 19:43:04 +0200 <davean> tomsmeding: I'd assume that search engines would care the most.
2021-05-30 19:43:15 +0200 <tomsmeding> hm that's true
2021-05-30 19:43:17 +0200 <shiraeeshi> yay
2021-05-30 19:43:28 +0200 <Philonous> The resulting executable is about 50% faster , it just takes 24GB and 15 minutes to compile, wheres with the "data" it takes ~3 seconds.
2021-05-30 19:43:46 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
2021-05-30 19:43:48 +0200 <davean> Philonous: I mean thats VERY believable when you change semantics
2021-05-30 19:43:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> "accepting non-standard pattern guards (use PatternGuards to suppress this message)" -- "[chan] <- filter ((== thisChan) . showChan) [toEnum 0 .. ]"
2021-05-30 19:44:00 +0200 <shiraeeshi> only 12 mbs? let's see how much they weigh after extracting
2021-05-30 19:44:02 +0200 <davean> Philonous: but if it is that bad to compile I expect you're doing something naughty
2021-05-30 19:44:05 +0200 <davean> or at least deviant
2021-05-30 19:44:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> I've never before seen that warning
2021-05-30 19:44:17 +0200raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 19:44:17 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@119.131.208.84) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 19:44:24 +0200 <tomsmeding> does anyone know what that is about?
2021-05-30 19:45:25 +0200 <davean> Philonous: to get what you're talking about there has to be a LOT of indirection, showing some code might be good
2021-05-30 19:46:15 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-72-92-38-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 19:47:12 +0200 <Philonous> davean, It's not a small test case yet. I'm working on vinyl, and I'm trying to replace one of their "data" constructors with a newtype, because it gives very promising results in benchmarks. But it turns out that doing that blows up tests in the "Frames" library
2021-05-30 19:47:31 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-05-30 19:47:46 +0200 <davean> Oh I see, yah, exactly, VERY much indirection, using the compiler as a horrible substitute for a theorem prover
2021-05-30 19:48:11 +0200 <davean> By adding the right shortcuts you probably can clean that up though
2021-05-30 19:48:31 +0200 <davean> either the right RULES or type theorems
2021-05-30 19:49:27 +0200werneta(~werneta@mobile-166-176-57-108.mycingular.net)
2021-05-30 19:49:50 +0200 <davean> Hell, you might be doing a coercion the long way round or something.
2021-05-30 19:49:50 +0200 <Philonous> I'm thinking that maybe it's one too many {-# INLINE #-} pragmas
2021-05-30 19:49:54 +0200 <shiraeeshi> tomsmeding: thanks. is that all the logs? they begin at 2020-09-16.
2021-05-30 19:50:13 +0200 <fosskers> Philonous: Yeah too-aggressive INLINEing can cause you trouble.
2021-05-30 19:50:37 +0200 <davean> well, too many inlines is exactly where I'd suggest a RULE that skips a large chunk of them
2021-05-30 19:50:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> shiraeeshi: it's all the logs that I have; I only started this instance of ircbrowse around that time :)
2021-05-30 19:50:53 +0200 <Philonous> What's bothering me is that it's 13 top-level declarations, and having 3 of the runs in seconds, but 7 takes 4 minutes, so there's something superlinear going on
2021-05-30 19:51:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> Chris Done has run the thing in the past, but I suggest you look at the tunes.org logs if you want more completeness regarding freenode
2021-05-30 19:51:18 +0200 <Philonous> All 13 just eats up all my 64GB of RAM
2021-05-30 19:52:38 +0200 <shiraeeshi> tomsmeding: ok, just wanted to make sure. I hope that logs from two sources will close some gaps when the logger missed some messages. thanks again.
2021-05-30 19:58:00 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
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2021-05-30 20:35:20 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess) ()
2021-05-30 20:35:53 +0200jess(~jess@libera/staff/jess)
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2021-05-30 20:39:19 +0200hrnz(~ulli@cherry.hrnz.li) (Quit: das ist mir zu bld hier; bb)
2021-05-30 20:39:43 +0200ulli(~ulli@cherry.hrnz.li)
2021-05-30 20:40:43 +0200curiousgay(~quassel@178.217.208.8)
2021-05-30 20:41:11 +0200mib_p5ug0g(a0ee4a6a@ircip1.mibbit.com)
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2021-05-30 20:44:58 +0200 <siers> doesn't ReaderT's withReaderT make it kind of StateT-ish?
2021-05-30 20:44:59 +0200mib_p5ug0g(a0ee4a6a@ircip1.mibbit.com) ()
2021-05-30 20:45:31 +0200 <siers> :t withReaderT
2021-05-30 20:45:32 +0200 <lambdabot> (r' -> r) -> ReaderT r m a -> ReaderT r' m a
2021-05-30 20:45:54 +0200 <siers> so if I have "do f; g", then I can "do f; withReaderT modify (pure ()); g"
2021-05-30 20:46:04 +0200 <siers> ah, but and so can g inside of it
2021-05-30 20:46:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> you can change stuff going inwards, but the changes don't propagate outward
2021-05-30 20:46:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> with state, changes to the state made by subcomputations propagate upward to the parent computation
2021-05-30 20:47:11 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 20:47:37 +0200 <siers> alright! :)
2021-05-30 20:49:25 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-30 20:52:29 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
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2021-05-30 21:05:05 +0200[exa](exa@user/exa/x-3587197) (Killed (platinum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2021-05-30 21:05:06 +0200chisui63(~chisui@200116b866a666008a66584e0c9c7dc0.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
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2021-05-30 21:06:51 +0200arrowd(~arr@2.94.203.147) ()
2021-05-30 21:07:34 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-30 21:07:38 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-30 21:07:59 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.46.62.65)
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2021-05-30 21:10:23 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li)
2021-05-30 21:10:29 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li) ()
2021-05-30 21:10:39 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-05-30 21:10:43 +0200 <Athas> Does anyone know of a maintained fork of this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cmath
2021-05-30 21:10:53 +0200 <Athas> carter: if such a fork exists, I guess you'd know about it.
2021-05-30 21:11:09 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d)
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2021-05-30 21:17:16 +0200 <carter> Does it not build?
2021-05-30 21:17:43 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@89.45.224.59)
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2021-05-30 21:25:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.44)
2021-05-30 21:30:20 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.121.71)
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2021-05-30 21:38:06 +0200ordinate(~ordinate@c-68-38-144-3.hsd1.in.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 21:38:13 +0200 <ordinate> good afternoon
2021-05-30 21:38:23 +0200pera(~pera@user/pera) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 21:38:33 +0200ullihrnz
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2021-05-30 21:39:10 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
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2021-05-30 21:47:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> good evening :)
2021-05-30 21:47:39 +0200 <shapr> hi!
2021-05-30 21:49:41 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b86640a4006758c3f5518a6bd2.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-30 21:51:04 +0200 <Rembane> Good evening! :)
2021-05-30 21:51:27 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-30 21:52:27 +0200space-shell(~space-she@88.98.247.38)
2021-05-30 21:54:36 +0200 <ordinate> hope yall are doing well, im currently stuck learning web development backwards
2021-05-30 21:55:58 +0200 <sm[m]> sounds fun
2021-05-30 21:56:23 +0200 <shapr> ordinate: backwards?
2021-05-30 21:56:26 +0200 <shapr> what does that mean?
2021-05-30 21:57:09 +0200 <sm[m]> sdrawkcab
2021-05-30 21:57:15 +0200 <ordinate> i decided my first "real" haskell project would be a webgame despite having never coded anything for the web, so i'm learning all the frontend things through the miso haskell framework
2021-05-30 21:58:32 +0200larkfisherman(~larkfishe@178.77.33.190)
2021-05-30 21:59:50 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-30 22:00:39 +0200 <carter> Athas: naively, it seems like something htat shouldn't need any real updates ..
2021-05-30 22:01:04 +0200larkfisherman(~larkfishe@178.77.33.190) (Client Quit)
2021-05-30 22:01:53 +0200stefan(~stefan@p200300cd7715d60029dad9fa80af4822.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-30 22:02:08 +0200tromp(~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-05-30 22:02:49 +0200xdragun(~xdragun@2601:184:4600:8780::d337)
2021-05-30 22:03:07 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 22:03:59 +0200 <space-shell> Hey ordinate, If you're working on a 2D game and you can find a nice SVG manipulation library in Haskell, you could use that to 'render' your game quite well rather than getting into any WebGL or CSS stuff, SVG is pretty much just Markup
2021-05-30 22:04:17 +0200werneta(~werneta@mobile-166-176-57-108.mycingular.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:04:26 +0200 <space-shell> s/that/SVG's
2021-05-30 22:04:53 +0200smatting(~stefan@p200300cd7715d600c4e4ce0fc87c474b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:05:06 +0200 <ordinate> that'd be a good idea, yeah. i think miso has stuff for messing with SVG's in the browser, currently i'm only just drawing things to the canvas
2021-05-30 22:05:36 +0200chomwitt(~Pitsikoko@athedsl-20549.home.otenet.gr)
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2021-05-30 22:07:56 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.235)
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2021-05-30 22:12:55 +0200 <xsperry> .
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2021-05-30 22:18:53 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
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2021-05-30 22:20:18 +0200dpl(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net)
2021-05-30 22:21:51 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: Well, with the inliner I experienced degenerate behavior with megaparsec using `asum [string "foo" $> Foo, string "bar $> Bar, ...]`. It turns out, there's a sweet spot where the inliner completely explodes upwards of 50s (for nothing but that single line of code). Adding one more to the list brings it back down to a second because the inliner stops doing its job.
2021-05-30 22:22:07 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: (With megaparsec the problem is that you get a transitive mess of INLINE pragmas everywhere)
2021-05-30 22:23:39 +0200pkkm(~pkkm@aebv64.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (WeeChat 2.3)
2021-05-30 22:24:54 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: You can pass `-v` to GHC to see where it spends a lot of time and memory in
2021-05-30 22:25:08 +0200xdragun(~xdragun@2601:184:4600:8780::d337) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-05-30 22:32:59 +0200lu(~lu@user/lu)
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2021-05-30 22:35:21 +0200smokey991(sid369395@id-369395.brockwell.irccloud.com)
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2021-05-30 22:36:56 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: are you on windows these days?
2021-05-30 22:37:42 +0200chisui(~chisui@200116b86640a4006758c3f5518a6bd2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:38:13 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
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2021-05-30 22:41:53 +0200lun
2021-05-30 22:41:57 +0200no
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2021-05-30 22:42:06 +0200Guest3217t
2021-05-30 22:42:35 +0200tlu
2021-05-30 22:46:54 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: no way, what gave you that idea ?
2021-05-30 22:47:08 +0200 <maerwald> just looking for testers
2021-05-30 22:47:21 +0200 <sm[m]> heh
2021-05-30 22:47:27 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:47:34 +0200 <Athas> carter: libm might not change much, but GHC sure does. It doesn't build.
2021-05-30 22:47:51 +0200 <Athas> I guess I could take it over.
2021-05-30 22:48:03 +0200 <sm[m]> I think you seriously will avoid a lot of pain by getting hold of a Windows, eh ?
2021-05-30 22:48:17 +0200 <sm[m]> In the cloud or otherwise
2021-05-30 22:48:26 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-72-92-38-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-30 22:48:54 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:49:46 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: I have a VM
2021-05-30 22:49:57 +0200 <maerwald> but on machine doesn't tell me much
2021-05-30 22:50:01 +0200 <maerwald> *one
2021-05-30 22:50:56 +0200 <sm[m]> good - hostwinds, or did you find a better one ?
2021-05-30 22:51:08 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259d09bcfca73fcec0b486.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:51:16 +0200 <sm[m]> oh VM. Even better I guess
2021-05-30 22:52:18 +0200 <maerwald> I dunno, win10 seems free
2021-05-30 22:52:43 +0200sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net)
2021-05-30 22:53:20 +0200 <carter> Athas: whats the build failure? does it just need a trustee tickle?
2021-05-30 22:53:57 +0200 <Athas> carter: no, it imports the wrong things to get e.g. unsafePerformIO.
2021-05-30 22:53:59 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-30 22:53:59 +0200 <Athas> It's from 2008!
2021-05-30 22:54:01 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-30 22:54:05 +0200 <carter> ok
2021-05-30 22:54:12 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
2021-05-30 22:54:24 +0200 <Athas> I wrote Don Stewart asking to take over maintenance. I could make a new package, but cmath is exactly the right name for this.
2021-05-30 22:55:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> "-fvia-C" -- blast from the past!
2021-05-30 22:55:17 +0200allbery_b(~geekosaur@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com)
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2021-05-30 23:09:47 +0200 <carter> Yeah
2021-05-30 23:09:57 +0200 <carter> Athas: sounds good :)
2021-05-30 23:10:32 +0200waleee(~waleee@h-98-128-228-119.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2021-05-30 23:10:37 +0200xprlgjf(~gavin@60.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-05-30 23:11:31 +0200amk(~amk@176.61.106.150)
2021-05-30 23:13:12 +0200 <carter> Granted it’s super easy to bind those. But having an off the shelf spot that just builds sounds ncie
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2021-05-30 23:18:20 +0200 <Philonous> davean, dminuoso I ended up bisecting the INLINE pragmas in Frames and found a single one that could be turned into an INLINEABLE without affecting runtime and it stopped the inliner from going crazy
2021-05-30 23:18:25 +0200chaosite(~chaosite@user/chaosite) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 23:19:26 +0200 <Philonous> This seems to be a dark art, though. I have very littel intuition about when to {-# INLINE -#}, when to {-# INLINEABLE -#} and when not to bother (I usually don't bother).
2021-05-30 23:19:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: Presumably GHC spends too much with ConstSpec
2021-05-30 23:19:47 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: as a good rule of thumb, keep your fingersa way from INLINE.
2021-05-30 23:20:09 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830:7dbf:92d8:fd42:235d) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-05-30 23:20:51 +0200 <Philonous> Yes, it seems to be a big hammer
2021-05-30 23:21:08 +0200 <dminuoso> INLINABLE otoh is a good thing since it just *enables* optimizations without forcing/nudging GHC
2021-05-30 23:21:15 +0200 <dminuoso> That might not occur
2021-05-30 23:21:45 +0200 <Philonous> The way to know is to notice that the program isn't going fast enough and then looking at core?
2021-05-30 23:21:59 +0200 <Philonous> If INLINEABLE is good, why is it not the default?
2021-05-30 23:22:21 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.235) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 23:22:42 +0200 <geekosaur> because sometimes it prevents other optimizations
2021-05-30 23:23:39 +0200 <Philonous> Is there a book / paper / other resource that I can read about all of this?
2021-05-30 23:24:03 +0200curiousgay(~quassel@178.217.208.8) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-05-30 23:24:08 +0200 <davean> ou generally only want to INLINE small things that don't depend on other things
2021-05-30 23:24:13 +0200 <davean> thats the safe option generally
2021-05-30 23:24:17 +0200 <carter> yeah, tiny wrappery stuff
2021-05-30 23:24:27 +0200curiousgay(~quassel@178.217.208.8)
2021-05-30 23:24:28 +0200 <carter> dont mark stuff inline/inlineable unless you have evidence its safe
2021-05-30 23:24:45 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it)
2021-05-30 23:26:52 +0200chaosite(~chaosite@user/chaosite)
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2021-05-30 23:27:04 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: So GHC will put definitions of functions into interface files. However, without INLINABLE there's no guarantee of it happening (GHC will only do so its its small).
2021-05-30 23:27:26 +0200hylisper(~yaaic@111.119.208.67) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 23:27:31 +0200 <dminuoso> With INLINABLE it will put the original definition (and potentially specialized versions), but those are pre-simplifier.
2021-05-30 23:27:43 +0200 <maerwald[m]> Monad instances?
2021-05-30 23:28:02 +0200 <maerwald[m]> I've seen INLINE there a lot
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2021-05-30 23:47:32 +0200 <Philonous> So, is the point of INLINE then to allow other optimizations to fire (e.g. case of known constructor or case merging). And if there's no optimization we specifically depend on, it's best not to INLINE?
2021-05-30 23:48:32 +0200 <dminuoso> Philonous: INLINE is a very strong nudge for GHC to inline it, almost forcefully.
2021-05-30 23:48:42 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.165.191.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-30 23:49:05 +0200 <dminuoso> INLINABLE guarantees that interface files have definitions (+ possible specializations), such that they can be inlined cross module/package
2021-05-30 23:49:46 +0200 <dminuoso> But INLINABLE it wont make GHC any more likely to inline a definition than without it.
2021-05-30 23:50:20 +0200nikoo
2021-05-30 23:50:37 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-05-30 23:50:56 +0200winter(~winter@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-30 23:51:07 +0200pbrisbin(~patrick@pool-72-92-38-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-30 23:51:14 +0200 <Philonous> dminuoso, Yes, I understand that much, I'm trying to get a feeling for when to use INLINE
2021-05-30 23:53:59 +0200 <dminuoso> One important use case is if you have RULES mentioning bits in the definition of `f`.
2021-05-30 23:54:25 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.100)
2021-05-30 23:54:46 +0200 <dminuoso> Then you might want to forcibly inline `f` via INLINE, so the RULES can fire
2021-05-30 23:55:16 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-05-30 23:55:22 +0200 <dminuoso> With INLINABLE (or nothing) you'd be at the mercy of inliner whether or not they can fire
2021-05-30 23:57:21 +0200 <dminuoso> edwardk has something to say as well in this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/cjkc3l/should_i_be_inlining_instance_implementations/eve…
2021-05-30 23:57:41 +0200rahguzar(~rahguzar@dynamic-adsl-84-220-228-254.clienti.tiscali.it) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-30 23:59:20 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.45.224.100) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)