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2021/05/26

2021-05-26 00:00:19 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-05-26 00:00:22 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.125) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 00:00:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.125)
2021-05-26 00:02:03 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@82-64-17-144.subs.proxad.net)
2021-05-26 00:03:27 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:05:34 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.125) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:06:20 +0200Bartosz(~textual@50.35.220.89) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 00:06:22 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:06:36 +0200polux7polux
2021-05-26 00:11:01 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:445e:c460:a1c:1c80)
2021-05-26 00:11:52 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 00:12:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-05-26 00:14:35 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(~trottel@185.244.212.222) (Quit: WeeChat 3.2-dev)
2021-05-26 00:17:15 +0200 <ski> boxscape : "vanilla natural deduction" being Prawitz-style, as opposed to Gentzen-style ?
2021-05-26 00:18:44 +0200nan`(~nan`@rrcs-70-60-83-42.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Computer is sleeping. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 00:19:10 +0200__monty__(~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
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2021-05-26 00:22:13 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 00:23:45 +0200ruomad(~ruomad@82-64-17-144.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: Sayonara)
2021-05-26 00:25:58 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:caa:2c0d:7263:2825) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 00:28:12 +0200 <boxscape> ski just anything not involving type theory
2021-05-26 00:28:44 +0200 <boxscape> (I don't remember which of those is which)
2021-05-26 00:29:25 +0200aeoui(~aeoui@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:31:09 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 00:31:09 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-26 00:34:29 +0200Guest83(~Guest83@86-86-79-128.fixed.kpn.net)
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2021-05-26 00:36:39 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 00:36:59 +0200eggplant_(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:8d52:c9d8:f104:c0f6)
2021-05-26 00:37:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-05-26 00:40:22 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:c032:b754:d42c:78b5) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:45:58 +0200 <maerwald> haskell-mode is an executable or an emacs plugin?
2021-05-26 00:46:04 +0200 <maerwald> afais it's the latter
2021-05-26 00:53:57 +0200lbseale_(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Leaving)
2021-05-26 00:54:21 +0200 <geekosaur> emacs .el file and major mode
2021-05-26 00:56:04 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:445e:c460:a1c:1c80) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 00:56:18 +0200lbseale_m(~lbseale_m@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-26 00:56:59 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:445e:c460:a1c:1c80)
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2021-05-26 00:59:20 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@120.236.162.14)
2021-05-26 00:59:34 +0200Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-175.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 00:59:49 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b845d852006e2894fb093deaf7.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-05-26 01:05:13 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@71-218-232-238.hlrn.qwest.net)
2021-05-26 01:05:39 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 01:07:29 +0200 <hololeap> I'm looking for some help with this: http://sprunge.us/K8jr3z
2021-05-26 01:07:48 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.18)
2021-05-26 01:12:22 +0200 <boxscape> hololeap looking at the output of -ddump-deriv might help
2021-05-26 01:12:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.18) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 01:12:35 +0200tcard(~tcard@p2307053-ipngn17101hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp)
2021-05-26 01:12:42 +0200 <boxscape> in figuring out what's going wrong, at least
2021-05-26 01:14:10 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:445e:c460:a1c:1c80)
2021-05-26 01:14:25 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-26 01:17:04 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-05-26 01:17:08 +0200 <hololeap> i'm not really sure how to read that: http://sprunge.us/3cvBzN
2021-05-26 01:17:39 +0200cnr(~cnr@user/cnr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 01:20:56 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish)
2021-05-26 01:21:48 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2021-05-26 01:22:10 +0200 <boxscape> hololeap it gets a bit more readable when you strip out the module qualifiers: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/JS9tj20q The @s are the same @s as with -XTypeApplications. In principle you should be able to replace the problematic deriving instance with that to find out where in it the error is coming from.
2021-05-26 01:22:27 +0200 <boxscape> which might explain why the deriving instance is going wrong, hopefully
2021-05-26 01:23:45 +0200 <boxscape> (just realized I didn't strip out all the qualifiers https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vqpwRGaY )
2021-05-26 01:25:40 +0200 <boxscape> though strangely pasting it in the file produces a slightly different error...
2021-05-26 01:26:14 +0200 <boxscape> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/WRwYUiLn
2021-05-26 01:28:47 +0200 <hololeap> Couldn't match type `Identity Text' with `Text' -- it seems like i'm running into a limitation with GHCs deriving mechinism and it needs some handholding. but how...
2021-05-26 01:29:36 +0200 <hololeap> I know that I'm out on a limb as far as 10 extensions enabled
2021-05-26 01:29:37 +0200hseg(~gesh@185.120.126.41) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 01:30:24 +0200WikiLycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 01:31:04 +0200 <boxscape> we can get back to the `Couldn't match type ‘IsTouched Text’ with ‘MyTypeT IsTouched’` error if we replace @(Identity Text) in the dumped instance with @(Tagged Identity Text)
2021-05-26 01:34:57 +0200 <hololeap> Yes, but `IsTouched Text` and `MyTypeT IsTouched` should have the same runtime representation
2021-05-26 01:36:02 +0200 <boxscape> yeah you would think so
2021-05-26 01:36:23 +0200 <boxscape> (btw it was a different error message because I accidentally deleted too much when stripping the qualifiers)
2021-05-26 01:39:46 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@user/edwtjo) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 01:43:07 +0200 <hololeap> maybe generalize newtype deriving doesn't work with multi-param typeclases... I'll test
2021-05-26 01:48:28 +0200 <hololeap> Yeah, that seems to be the issue: http://sprunge.us/FZfY9M
2021-05-26 01:50:05 +0200trent(~trent@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-05-26 01:51:39 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-79-136-7-145.A213.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-05-26 01:51:39 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-79-136-7-145.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host)
2021-05-26 01:51:39 +0200edwtjo(~edwtjo@user/edwtjo)
2021-05-26 01:52:21 +0200 <boxscape> huh, when you try "deriving Reverse via [Char]" it says "`Reverse' is not a unary constraint, as expected by a deriving clause"
2021-05-26 01:52:33 +0200 <boxscape> I guess it should say that for newtype deriving too
2021-05-26 01:52:34 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57)
2021-05-26 01:52:49 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-05-26 01:53:21 +0200 <boxscape> ah except that maybe standalone deriving clauses can in some contexts work with multiple parameters, idk
2021-05-26 01:53:38 +0200gehmehgeh(~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 01:53:57 +0200WikiLycurgusLycurgus
2021-05-26 01:54:46 +0200 <geekosaur> aren't most of the things in mtl that get derived via GND multiparameter? I suspect the fundeps help
2021-05-26 01:56:43 +0200 <geekosaur> (standalone deriving iirc isn't supposed to differ from a deriving clause)
2021-05-26 01:56:45 +0200 <geekosaur> at least if the same things are in scope
2021-05-26 01:57:35 +0200 <boxscape> well, there certainly are some cases in which standalone deriving works but a deriving clause doesn't; in many of those ghc will tell you to use standalone deriving if you use a clause
2021-05-26 01:57:50 +0200 <boxscape> not sure if that ever applies to gnd though
2021-05-26 01:58:26 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net)
2021-05-26 01:59:46 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-05-26 02:00:10 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 02:00:33 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.34)
2021-05-26 02:01:50 +0200 <boxscape> hololeap https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EsMg3gPu
2021-05-26 02:02:22 +0200 <boxscape> (need to add InstanceSigs as well in 8.10)
2021-05-26 02:02:31 +0200 <boxscape> hm is this a bug in GND?
2021-05-26 02:03:27 +0200 <boxscape> let me check the docs...
2021-05-26 02:04:13 +0200 <boxscape> "We can even derive instances of multi-parameter classes, provided the newtype is the last class parameter."
2021-05-26 02:04:18 +0200 <boxscape> I guess it's expected behavior
2021-05-26 02:04:27 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 02:05:03 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.34) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 02:05:25 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25)
2021-05-26 02:06:10 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 02:06:40 +0200 <boxscape> geekosaur I guess the mtl classes have their newtypes as last parameter of the class
2021-05-26 02:07:41 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 02:08:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 02:09:39 +0200 <boxscape> hmmm it seems like this should be a relatively straightforward extension of DerivingVia
2021-05-26 02:09:45 +0200 <boxscape> at least for standalone deriving clauses
2021-05-26 02:10:10 +0200Bartosz(~textual@50.35.220.89) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-05-26 02:42:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 02:42:48 +0200 <boxscape> re: multiple parameters for deriving via https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/8aa81q/deriving_via_or_how_to_turn_handwritten_instances…
2021-05-26 02:43:43 +0200kewa(~kewa@5.138.211.57) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-05-26 03:12:36 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:6358:1194:1ae8:3b3e:7012)
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2021-05-26 03:13:15 +0200 <hololeap> boxscape, thanks I'll check it out!
2021-05-26 03:13:24 +0200johnw(~johnw@2607:f6f0:3004:1:c8b4:50ff:fef8:6bf0) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2021-05-26 03:13:33 +0200 <boxscape> hololeap to be clear that doesn't provide a solution, just ideas for how it could be implemented in ghc
2021-05-26 03:15:33 +0200 <hololeap> ok
2021-05-26 03:15:54 +0200 <hololeap> is there a way to set a default instance for an associated type family (associated with a typeclass)?
2021-05-26 03:16:12 +0200Bartosz(~textual@50.35.220.89)
2021-05-26 03:16:37 +0200 <hololeap> like, if `type instance Blah Foo = Bar` isn't there it will default to `type instance Blah Foo = MyDefault` ?
2021-05-26 03:16:39 +0200 <dmwit> I don't think so, but you can do the usual thing from the value level where you have a second family and folks can write `type Foo a b c = DefaultFoo a b c` or whatever.
2021-05-26 03:18:18 +0200 <hololeap> I'm not sure I understand the difference
2021-05-26 03:18:49 +0200afnan(~textual@104.153.228.129) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 03:18:52 +0200 <boxscape> hololeap I think you can provide a default definition:
2021-05-26 03:19:09 +0200 <boxscape> % class Foo where type Test; type Test = Int
2021-05-26 03:19:09 +0200 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-05-26 03:19:18 +0200 <boxscape> % :set -Wall
2021-05-26 03:19:18 +0200 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-05-26 03:19:26 +0200 <boxscape> (to warn if not everything is implemented)
2021-05-26 03:19:29 +0200 <boxscape> % instance Foo
2021-05-26 03:19:30 +0200 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-05-26 03:21:20 +0200 <dmwit> hololeap: Compare: `class Functor f => FancyFunctor f where fancyfmap :: (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b); fancyfmap = fmap` vs. `fancyfmapDefault :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b); fancyfmapDefault = fmap; class Functor f => FancyFunctor f where fancyfmap :: (a -> b) -> (f a -> f b)`
2021-05-26 03:21:55 +0200 <dmwit> hololeap: The former has a default that the compiler understands -- i.e. will fill in for you if you don't put override it manually. The second has a default that you can opt into, but you get a warning if you forget to define the method.
2021-05-26 03:22:10 +0200 <dmwit> hololeap: For type families, the former is not available, but the latter still is.
2021-05-26 03:22:18 +0200 <boxscape> dmwit it is available, see above
2021-05-26 03:22:31 +0200 <dmwit> boxscape: ...I'm not sure that does what you think it does.
2021-05-26 03:22:35 +0200 <boxscape> hmmm
2021-05-26 03:22:48 +0200 <dmwit> % class Foo' a where type Test' a; type Test' a = Int
2021-05-26 03:22:48 +0200 <yahb> dmwit:
2021-05-26 03:22:58 +0200 <dmwit> % instance Foo' Char where type Test' Char = Bool
2021-05-26 03:22:59 +0200 <yahb> dmwit:
2021-05-26 03:23:01 +0200 <dmwit> huh!
2021-05-26 03:23:04 +0200 <dmwit> Maybe it does. ^_^
2021-05-26 03:23:10 +0200 <dmwit> % :k! Test' Char
2021-05-26 03:23:10 +0200 <yahb> dmwit: *; = Bool
2021-05-26 03:23:13 +0200 <dmwit> fancy
2021-05-26 03:23:36 +0200 <boxscape> yeah
2021-05-26 03:23:48 +0200 <dmwit> Is that a new output format, or is yahb doing something clever to ghci's actual (verbose) response?
2021-05-26 03:24:06 +0200 <dmwit> (I would have expected something like `Test' Char :: *; Test' Char = Bool` or whatever.
2021-05-26 03:24:39 +0200 <dmwit> )
2021-05-26 03:24:45 +0200 <boxscape> in HEAD ghci I get
2021-05-26 03:24:46 +0200 <boxscape> ghci> :k! Testing String
2021-05-26 03:24:46 +0200 <boxscape> Testing String :: *
2021-05-26 03:24:47 +0200 <boxscape> = Bool
2021-05-26 03:25:15 +0200 <dmwit> So yahb is doing something fancy. ok
2021-05-26 03:25:22 +0200 <boxscape> yeah
2021-05-26 03:25:55 +0200 <hololeap> here's what I'm working on: http://sprunge.us/6WAP0F
2021-05-26 03:26:06 +0200 <Axman6> oh we have yahb and lambdabot, hooray!
2021-05-26 03:26:31 +0200 <boxscape> the whole family
2021-05-26 03:26:54 +0200 <hololeap> I'd like to default to `type instance ValidityWrapper a = NoWrapper`
2021-05-26 03:27:38 +0200 <boxscape> try putting the line `type ValidityWrapper a = NoWrapper` below the line `type ValidityWrapper a :: Type -> Type`
2021-05-26 03:28:52 +0200 <hololeap> ok, that's frickin rad
2021-05-26 03:29:06 +0200 <hololeap> (at least it typechecks so far)
2021-05-26 03:29:52 +0200 <boxscape> you should be able to do the same with completeDef I think? As in, put `complete = \case ...` below `complete :: r -> Maybe a` and then remove all the `complete = completeDef` lines?
2021-05-26 03:30:23 +0200 <boxscape> ...if that's what you'd want, anyway
2021-05-26 03:31:17 +0200 <hololeap> that would be what I want, but it doesn't like it
2021-05-26 03:31:23 +0200 <boxscape> ah, hm
2021-05-26 03:32:06 +0200 <dmwit> You have to give the completeDef type signature, and use DefaultSignatures
2021-05-26 03:32:57 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:bc6a:75bb:6cbe:61b0)
2021-05-26 03:32:57 +0200 <dmwit> `class Completable r a | ... where complete :: r -> Maybe a; complete :: ValidityWrapper a ~ NoWrapper => IsComplete a -> Maybe a; complete = \case ...`
2021-05-26 03:33:02 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:bc6a:75bb:6cbe:61b0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 03:34:25 +0200 <dmwit> Err, hm. You might need `complete :: (ValidityWrapper a ~ NoWrapper, r ~ IsComplete a) => r -> Maybe a` instead.
2021-05-26 03:34:35 +0200 <dmwit> There are some rules I don't fully understand about the shape the default signature has to have.
2021-05-26 03:34:42 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@2409:8954:32d4:6358:1194:1ae8:3b3e:7012) (Quit: Quit)
2021-05-26 03:35:28 +0200 <hololeap> dmwit: it's complaining about multiple declarations of `complete` when I do that
2021-05-26 03:35:37 +0200 <dmwit> As an aside: many people seem to prefer `f <$> x <*> y` to `liftA2 f x y`. Why is that?
2021-05-26 03:35:58 +0200 <hololeap> oh, it needs to be prefixed with `default` ...
2021-05-26 03:36:18 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 03:36:32 +0200 <dmwit> Oh yeah.
2021-05-26 03:36:38 +0200 <dmwit> Good thing there's documentation, huh?
2021-05-26 03:36:53 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 03:37:16 +0200 <hololeap> default complete :: (ValidityWrapper a ~ NoWrapper, r ~ IsComplete a) => r -> Maybe a
2021-05-26 03:37:21 +0200 <hololeap> wow, that's really awesome
2021-05-26 03:37:22 +0200 <boxscape> dmwit liftA2 just looks ugly with that capital letter and number, doesn't really fit the camelCase aesthetic
2021-05-26 03:37:37 +0200 <boxscape> petty reason, but a reason anyway
2021-05-26 03:37:42 +0200 <boxscape> (for me)
2021-05-26 03:37:54 +0200 <MorrowM> <$> and <*> generalizes to as many args as you need
2021-05-26 03:38:34 +0200 <dmwit> Sure. For the general case, you use the general tool. Do you also write `<$>` instead of `map` or `.` in every place you can?
2021-05-26 03:38:52 +0200 <dmwit> But ok, aesthetics are sort of tough to argue with, even if I don't share them.
2021-05-26 03:39:43 +0200 <dmwit> Also, one day I'd like to convince people that `pure f <*> x <*> y` is superior to `f <$> x <*> y`.
2021-05-26 03:39:49 +0200 <hololeap> how many default definitions can you have? could I have more with different constraints?
2021-05-26 03:40:10 +0200 <dmwit> I don't think so. How would it know which to pick if multiple of them had satisfiable constraints?
2021-05-26 03:40:22 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 03:40:22 +0200 <dmwit> But perhaps you'd like the DerivingVia extension.
2021-05-26 03:40:38 +0200 <hololeap> I know of it, but I'm not sure how that would help here
2021-05-26 03:40:43 +0200 <geekosaur> afaik it only allows one and it should match the single default implementation provided
2021-05-26 03:41:20 +0200 <boxscape> this article mentions how to use DerivingVia instead of defaultSignatures https://www.parsonsmatt.org/2020/11/10/simplifying_deriving.html
2021-05-26 03:42:00 +0200 <MorrowM> dmwit: A lot of people use fmap always instead of map, so I presume it's the same sort of deal here.
2021-05-26 03:42:38 +0200 <boxscape> I once wrote a function called `lift` that could lift any number of arguments
2021-05-26 03:42:41 +0200 <boxscape> it was terrible
2021-05-26 03:42:47 +0200 <boxscape> (type-inference-wise)
2021-05-26 03:43:04 +0200 <dmwit> Yes, terrible, agree.
2021-05-26 03:43:10 +0200 <MorrowM> Oh I did the same lol
2021-05-26 03:43:25 +0200 <MorrowM> Although I called it liftAN
2021-05-26 03:45:06 +0200 <dmwit> BTW we need a, like, liftJ2 :: Monad m => (a -> b -> m c) -> m a -> m b -> m c, and liftJ3 and liftJ4 and some extensible infix functions.
2021-05-26 03:45:18 +0200 <dmwit> I feel like I need that like one project in three.
2021-05-26 03:45:23 +0200 <boxscape> incidentally I also prefer traverse over mapM and sequence over sequenceA for the same reason I don't like liftA2
2021-05-26 03:45:53 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 03:46:16 +0200 <MorrowM> I'd imagine you're not fond of liftM2 then
2021-05-26 03:46:41 +0200 <boxscape> no that's worse than liftA2 because it has the uncessessary Monad constraint
2021-05-26 03:46:47 +0200 <boxscape> that is not how you spell that word
2021-05-26 03:46:50 +0200 <MorrowM> Indeed
2021-05-26 03:47:42 +0200 <MorrowM> Nice thing about liftA2 though is you can compose it
2021-05-26 03:47:46 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
2021-05-26 03:47:54 +0200 <boxscape> I'm really torn on sequenceA and sequence because on one hand sequence is prettier and on the other hand it has the unnecessary constraint
2021-05-26 03:48:16 +0200 <MorrowM> @type liftA2 . liftA2
2021-05-26 03:48:17 +0200 <lambdabot> (Applicative f1, Applicative f2) => (a -> b -> c) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b) -> f1 (f2 c)
2021-05-26 03:48:26 +0200 <Axman6> dmwit++
2021-05-26 03:48:29 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@120.236.162.14) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 03:51:30 +0200 <trueboxguy> MorrowM: if you are who I think you are: remember me composing liftA3?
2021-05-26 03:51:59 +0200 <MorrowM> What, who are you? :P
2021-05-26 03:57:46 +0200dfg(~dfg@li490-89.members.linode.com) (Changing host)
2021-05-26 03:57:46 +0200dfg(~dfg@user/dfg)
2021-05-26 03:58:55 +0200 <trueboxguy> Ah, was just a poor guess then MorrowM. Was talking to someone else called Morrow who composed liftA3 and got the type (on another platform)
2021-05-26 03:59:32 +0200 <trueboxguy> Also called MorrowM :p
2021-05-26 04:00:53 +0200 <MorrowM> trueboxguy, notice the :P boxy
2021-05-26 04:01:13 +0200 <trueboxguy> MorrowM: notice my :p
2021-05-26 04:01:28 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 04:01:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.78)
2021-05-26 04:01:42 +0200 <trueboxguy> I just had to make sure in my first message. Imagine how awkward it would have been...
2021-05-26 04:02:46 +0200 <trueboxguy> Anyways good night
2021-05-26 04:03:15 +0200 <hololeap> I'm looking into DuplicateRecordFields, and it seems like it doesn't know how to disambiguate the name when it is used as a function, e.g. passed into something that takes (MyData -> MyField)
2021-05-26 04:03:27 +0200 <hololeap> is there another extension that can help with this?
2021-05-26 04:03:48 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-05-26 04:04:24 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-26 04:05:35 +0200 <hololeap> I suppose TypeApplications...
2021-05-26 04:06:10 +0200 <hololeap> although at that point I might as well prepend the name of the data type to the record name
2021-05-26 04:06:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.78) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:10:25 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 04:11:43 +0200 <hololeap> the docs are confusing because it almost sounds like it is allowed if it can reify which data type it needs. but here, if I replace the selector function with a hole _, it gives me the exact data type that it is expecting for the argument... so what gives?
2021-05-26 04:15:15 +0200novacore2
2021-05-26 04:15:24 +0200core2nova
2021-05-26 04:17:00 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-26 04:17:00 +0200finn_elijaGuest6473
2021-05-26 04:17:00 +0200Guest6473(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (tungsten.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)))
2021-05-26 04:17:00 +0200FinnElijafinn_elija
2021-05-26 04:19:04 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@pool-96-252-87-182.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 04:20:10 +0200 <hololeap> here it is with the selector function: http://sprunge.us/rXNkIi ... and here it is with the hole: http://sprunge.us/jmfLco
2021-05-26 04:20:26 +0200hamishmack(sid389057@id-389057.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
2021-05-26 04:27:37 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:7cf0:f700:f86d:91fc)
2021-05-26 04:32:11 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:7cf0:f700:f86d:91fc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:37:02 +0200td_(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-005.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:37:18 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253)
2021-05-26 04:37:22 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:38:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 04:38:46 +0200td_(~td@94.134.91.198)
2021-05-26 04:39:28 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 04:40:35 +0200 <hololeap> interesting. this works: complete = completeNewtype MyItemId (id :: MyItemIdF -> IsComplete Text)
2021-05-26 04:40:56 +0200 <hololeap> but this doesn't: complete = completeNewtype MyItemId (id @MyItemIdF)
2021-05-26 04:41:04 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 04:42:14 +0200 <hololeap> (same error as the first paste)
2021-05-26 04:43:59 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253)
2021-05-26 04:44:33 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 04:45:20 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 04:45:25 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 04:45:54 +0200 <MorrowM> hololeap: I think there's no type variable to fill in with the type application
2021-05-26 04:46:41 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:49:26 +0200doc1(~doc@61.68.250.44) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 04:50:18 +0200doc1(~doc@61.68.250.44)
2021-05-26 04:50:33 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 04:59:36 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@bzq-110-168-31-106.red.bezeqint.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:00:31 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-05-26 05:01:21 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210b:c908:2cb1:d626:e9a3:d5ce)
2021-05-26 05:04:36 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-05-26 05:05:39 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:05:52 +0200 <hololeap> yeah, that's what it looks like from the first error, but the hole shows a concrete type signature
2021-05-26 05:08:04 +0200 <sm> aand.. there goes old #haskell <sniff>
2021-05-26 05:08:29 +0200 <sm> freenode staff are taking over all the troublesome channels
2021-05-26 05:08:49 +0200 <geekosaur> meaning anyone trying to move over
2021-05-26 05:09:10 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer)
2021-05-26 05:09:48 +0200smitop(uid328768@user/smitop) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 05:10:33 +0200 <phma> what was freenodecom doing?
2021-05-26 05:11:02 +0200 <slowButPresent> hostile takeover
2021-05-26 05:11:06 +0200 <sm> edwardk: #haskell-game, #plaintextaccounting, #ledger, and soon #hledger I'm sure. And #haskell as you noticed. :/ They're hitting lots of channels.
2021-05-26 05:11:47 +0200 <davean> I disconnected from freenode, whats happening?
2021-05-26 05:12:03 +0200 <sm> phma: it redirects the #channel to ##channel, sets the topic to "in violation of policy" and sets new ops (freenode staff) on both channels
2021-05-26 05:12:20 +0200 <sm> davean, mass channel takeover. It'll be on HN soon I expect
2021-05-26 05:12:25 +0200 <slowButPresent> #perl also had all the ops get banned and the channel closed
2021-05-26 05:12:25 +0200 <mniip> it is
2021-05-26 05:12:27 +0200 <mniip> in a way
2021-05-26 05:12:27 +0200jackdk(sid373013@id-373013.tinside.irccloud.com) (Changing host)
2021-05-26 05:12:27 +0200jackdk(sid373013@cssa/jackdk)
2021-05-26 05:12:28 +0200 <monochrom> and locking down #channel e.g. +m
2021-05-26 05:13:03 +0200 <phma> what does a channel name beginning with ## mean?
2021-05-26 05:13:05 +0200 <int-e> good-bye, freenode #haskell.
2021-05-26 05:13:13 +0200 <sm> we didn't wish for this, but it was predictable :(
2021-05-26 05:13:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:14:19 +0200 <ddb> phma: freenode policy was that off topic channels start with ##
2021-05-26 05:14:26 +0200 <hololeap> phma: it was something like a "generic" channel, not affiliated with any project or group
2021-05-26 05:14:37 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 05:14:40 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-26 05:14:51 +0200 <monochrom> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/namespaces explains # vs ##. But basically "more official" vs "less official"
2021-05-26 05:15:17 +0200 <monochrom> For example C's is ##c
2021-05-26 05:15:21 +0200 <monochrom> math's is ##math
2021-05-26 05:15:23 +0200 <int-e> the writing was on the wall
2021-05-26 05:15:44 +0200 <hololeap> I'm honestly a bit surprised by the speed of the exodus
2021-05-26 05:16:09 +0200 <hololeap> I asked a question in freenode:#haskell today and was told to come here
2021-05-26 05:16:32 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-26 05:18:03 +0200 <zzz> hololeap: you made it on time
2021-05-26 05:18:07 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98)
2021-05-26 05:18:17 +0200talismanick(~user@2601:644:8502:d700::94c9)
2021-05-26 05:18:40 +0200 <talismanick> I tried "cabal install brittany" and got a linker error, saying ld is not found.
2021-05-26 05:19:01 +0200 <talismanick> It very obviously is there (in /bin/ld) and in my PATH
2021-05-26 05:19:18 +0200 <monochrom> My view is optimistic. The hostile takeover unknowningly solves our biggest problem.
2021-05-26 05:19:32 +0200 <talismanick> (this is using the default setup from ghcup)
2021-05-26 05:20:19 +0200 <hololeap> <sm> freenode staff are taking over all the troublesome channels -- This is in direct contradiction with what has been posted on freenode.net lately, but given the size/speed of the exodus, I'll trust the people here :)
2021-05-26 05:20:26 +0200 <sm> monochrom: indeed, it makes the situation clearer. Let's just hope they stop there.
2021-05-26 05:21:10 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:21:15 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
2021-05-26 05:21:33 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: you probably don't want to use `cabal install`, but what are you trying to do?
2021-05-26 05:22:03 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-05-26 05:22:14 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: Install the binary globally so I have a formatter for flycheck (Emacs error-reporting package) to pick up on inside haskell-mode
2021-05-26 05:23:20 +0200 <talismanick> Not everyone has a 32 core Threadripper with 64G of RAM to recompile the formatter, language server, etc per project
2021-05-26 05:24:07 +0200 <hololeap> not sure what the last comment is about...
2021-05-26 05:24:15 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:24:20 +0200illegal(~v@anomalous.eu) (Quit: We're here. We're queer. Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 05:24:30 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: What flustered me about Haskell in the past was how long it took for all the tooling to compile
2021-05-26 05:24:42 +0200 <talismanick> and then Intero locked up Emacs while compiling even more
2021-05-26 05:25:13 +0200 <hololeap> heh, I compile all of the haskell repeatedly (I'm using Gentoo) and I generally use hardware from 10+ years ago
2021-05-26 05:25:28 +0200 <talismanick> I'm using a Thinkpad X200
2021-05-26 05:25:29 +0200 <hololeap> s/the haskell/the haskell ecosystem
2021-05-26 05:26:20 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: what distro are you on?
2021-05-26 05:26:24 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: Void
2021-05-26 05:26:41 +0200illegal(~v@anomalous.eu)
2021-05-26 05:26:48 +0200illegalV
2021-05-26 05:27:11 +0200 <dmwit> talismanick: Perhaps with enough verbosity, cabal will tell you exactly what command it tried to execute. Might give a clue
2021-05-26 05:27:42 +0200 <dmwit> I think -v3 is full verbosity.
2021-05-26 05:27:57 +0200 <talismanick> dmwit: It did. It said it was trying to execute ld.
2021-05-26 05:27:58 +0200V(~v@anomalous.eu) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 05:28:16 +0200 <talismanick> Specifically, it says 'gcc' failed in the phase 'Linker'
2021-05-26 05:28:27 +0200 <talismanick> But I compiled a C++ project not long ago
2021-05-26 05:28:27 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:18c:4e25:4acb:3c0e)
2021-05-26 05:28:55 +0200 <hololeap> I wonder if it's looking specifically for /usr/bin/ld
2021-05-26 05:29:01 +0200 <dmwit> Wait, that's kind of a different error message.
2021-05-26 05:29:23 +0200 <talismanick> dmwit: It gave both. Do you want me to pastebin it?
2021-05-26 05:29:26 +0200 <dmwit> Maybe make a paste with some details?
2021-05-26 05:29:28 +0200 <dmwit> ...yeah =)
2021-05-26 05:29:50 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.78) (Quit: alx741)
2021-05-26 05:30:39 +0200V(~v@anomalous.eu)
2021-05-26 05:30:43 +0200 <talismanick> https://0x0.st/-eCh.txt
2021-05-26 05:31:02 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:31:31 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: I thought about that. It'd be a bit strange... I suppose dropping in a symlink couldn't hurt.
2021-05-26 05:31:36 +0200 <talismanick> *famous last words*
2021-05-26 05:31:50 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: I like your name, btw. portmanteau of talismanic and Nick?
2021-05-26 05:31:57 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: indeed :)
2021-05-26 05:32:12 +0200 <talismanick> Actually a play on my first and last name
2021-05-26 05:32:57 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 05:33:09 +0200 <talismanick> wait, there's already a /usr/bin/ld
2021-05-26 05:33:35 +0200pe200012_(~pe200012@218.107.17.245)
2021-05-26 05:33:37 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:18c:4e25:4acb:3c0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:33:38 +0200 <talismanick> Oh, /bin is symlinked to /usr/bin
2021-05-26 05:33:46 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:33:46 +0200 <talismanick> glad I didn't undo that
2021-05-26 05:34:19 +0200 <dmwit> Is that -v3? It looks like it's doing a first call to ld with some, like, version flags or something, and not recognizing the output.
2021-05-26 05:35:09 +0200 <dmwit> If that is -v3, perhaps the extra verbose stuff got stuck in the mentioned log file, though I... thought cabal put it both in stdout and in the file, so that would be a bit weird.
2021-05-26 05:35:21 +0200 <talismanick> It's not v3
2021-05-26 05:35:30 +0200 <talismanick> That just what I already had in my terminal
2021-05-26 05:37:11 +0200 <int-e> RIP lambdabot@freenode (I killed it half an hour ago)
2021-05-26 05:37:17 +0200 <dmwit> F
2021-05-26 05:37:34 +0200 <dibblego> woot!
2021-05-26 05:38:07 +0200 <int-e> seems pointless to keep it running with most of the channels taken over
2021-05-26 05:38:21 +0200 <geekosaur> statusbot / #haskell-infrastructure, hackage bot?
2021-05-26 05:38:23 +0200 <int-e> @botsnack
2021-05-26 05:38:23 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2021-05-26 05:38:23 +0200 <hololeap> so the takeover is indeed hostile...
2021-05-26 05:38:40 +0200stelleg(~george@c-69-254-151-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Read error: No route to host)
2021-05-26 05:38:50 +0200 <int-e> lambdabot is dead, long live lambdabot!
2021-05-26 05:39:00 +0200sirodoht(uid499766@id-499766.brockwell.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 05:39:20 +0200 <hololeap> glad the admins had the foresight to set up a new network
2021-05-26 05:39:33 +0200 <talismanick> dmwit: https://0x0.st/-eCC.txt
2021-05-26 05:39:35 +0200 <talismanick> have at it
2021-05-26 05:40:29 +0200justUnrung(~justache@user/justache)
2021-05-26 05:41:22 +0200 <hololeap> that looks like gcc cannot find ld
2021-05-26 05:41:32 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-26 05:41:43 +0200 <hololeap> but you were able to compile earlier?
2021-05-26 05:42:33 +0200 <talismanick> yes
2021-05-26 05:42:35 +0200 <talismanick> That is correct
2021-05-26 05:42:55 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@97-116-14-180.mpls.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:43:19 +0200 <dmwit> Okay, so it's ghc that's printing this message.
2021-05-26 05:43:32 +0200 <dmwit> Does ghc --info look right?
2021-05-26 05:43:32 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 05:43:48 +0200 <dmwit> (There should be some lines about ld in its output.)
2021-05-26 05:44:17 +0200 <dmwit> What version of ghc is ~/.ghcup/bin/ghc?
2021-05-26 05:44:30 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@97-116-14-180.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-26 05:44:46 +0200 <talismanick> interesting...
2021-05-26 05:44:52 +0200 <talismanick> it says it's set to use "lld"
2021-05-26 05:45:08 +0200 <talismanick> I suppose most Haskell developers are on Mac and use the LLVM toolchain by default?
2021-05-26 05:45:50 +0200 <dmwit> errr... I don't know the stats. I would have guessed Linux and not-LLVM. But probably most of the Mac users do indeed default to LLVM
2021-05-26 05:46:05 +0200 <talismanick> Oh, yep
2021-05-26 05:46:09 +0200 <talismanick> looks like it's compiling now
2021-05-26 05:46:24 +0200 <talismanick> Thanks for the help
2021-05-26 05:46:40 +0200 <talismanick> Now I need to figure out how to tell it to use ld instead so I can delete lld
2021-05-26 05:47:08 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:47:36 +0200doc2(~doc@14-201-241-128.tpgi.com.au)
2021-05-26 05:48:07 +0200 <dmwit> -pgml
2021-05-26 05:48:52 +0200 <dmwit> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/phases.html
2021-05-26 05:48:53 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia)
2021-05-26 05:49:56 +0200 <dmwit> ...though I don't know the right way to communicate that to cabal or stack.
2021-05-26 05:50:59 +0200doc1(~doc@61.68.250.44) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 05:52:29 +0200 <dmwit> I guess something like a cabal.project.local with `package: *\n ghc-options: -pmgl /bin/ld` or something like that. Seems like it would be nice to have something in ~/.cabal/config for this, but I don't know that there is.
2021-05-26 05:54:52 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: What would be the correct way for a compute-poor user such as myself to compile brittany with minimal duplication of work?
2021-05-26 05:55:46 +0200 <dmwit> Perhaps nix has a cached binary.
2021-05-26 05:56:18 +0200talismanickhas vietnix flashbacks
2021-05-26 05:56:57 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 05:58:50 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: you'd have to explain what you mean by duplication of work
2021-05-26 05:59:47 +0200 <hololeap> from what I understand, ghc is a very poor compiler for setting something up like ccache
2021-05-26 05:59:48 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: Not compiling it for every project
2021-05-26 06:00:14 +0200 <hololeap> yeah, nix is probably a good idea
2021-05-26 06:00:46 +0200trent(~trent@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:01:12 +0200johnw(~johnw@2600:1700:cf00:db0:c055:a527:375d:4be5)
2021-05-26 06:01:13 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: like I said, I just use Gentoo with an old AMD quad-core and 12 GB RAM
2021-05-26 06:01:20 +0200 <dmwit> If the goal is merely "one compile, many projects", cabal install is fine.
2021-05-26 06:01:30 +0200 <talismanick> dmwit: phew
2021-05-26 06:01:31 +0200 <hololeap> well, I didn't say the last part... :)
2021-05-26 06:01:32 +0200 <dmwit> If the goal is "zero compiles", you'll have to find binaries somewhere.
2021-05-26 06:01:37 +0200 <talismanick> that's what I was looking for
2021-05-26 06:01:44 +0200chadbrewbaker(~chadbrewb@38.108.137.200)
2021-05-26 06:01:55 +0200 <dmwit> cabal install is completely fine for executables, IMO
2021-05-26 06:02:03 +0200jle`(~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 06:02:19 +0200 <dmwit> Installing libraries with it is a bit dodgy. I don't really think we've worked out the right model for that yet.
2021-05-26 06:02:23 +0200 <hololeap> dmwit: how does it handle updates?
2021-05-26 06:02:30 +0200 <dmwit> hahahahahaha
2021-05-26 06:02:44 +0200 <talismanick> dmwit: Right, I drop those in the per-project setup file?
2021-05-26 06:03:00 +0200 <dmwit> talismanick: right
2021-05-26 06:03:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.117)
2021-05-26 06:03:39 +0200 <chadbrewbaker> So what is the status of stack/GHC on M1? I tried building a few weeks ago and it did not go well '=D
2021-05-26 06:03:41 +0200 <hololeap> <hololeap> dmwit: how does it handle updates?
2021-05-26 06:03:44 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: What's the last part?
2021-05-26 06:03:55 +0200 <dmwit> <dmwit> hahahahahaha
2021-05-26 06:04:03 +0200 <hololeap> rofl
2021-05-26 06:04:12 +0200 <jle`> hi everyone :)
2021-05-26 06:04:33 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: last part?
2021-05-26 06:04:44 +0200chadbrewbaker(~chadbrewb@38.108.137.200) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 06:05:57 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: You said you didn't say it
2021-05-26 06:05:59 +0200 <hololeap> jle`: welcome!
2021-05-26 06:06:44 +0200 <talismanick> It's not "I hacked my university's computer lab to use all of it with distcc overnight", is it?
2021-05-26 06:07:07 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: just a technicality... I never mentioned what hardware I was on specifically
2021-05-26 06:07:46 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: you're exaggerating
2021-05-26 06:07:54 +0200pfurla_(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 06:08:09 +0200 <hololeap> overnight my old shit can compile 200 haskell packages
2021-05-26 06:08:10 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 06:08:12 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: AMD quadcore, 10+ years ago... is it a Piledriver CPU with a really high clock rate?
2021-05-26 06:08:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.117) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:08:21 +0200 <hololeap> No
2021-05-26 06:09:12 +0200joniibou(~textual@softbank060120010042.bbtec.net)
2021-05-26 06:09:19 +0200 <hololeap> (It's funny because I configured my kernel improperly thinking it was a Piledriver)
2021-05-26 06:09:34 +0200stevenxl(~stevenlei@174.128.182.136)
2021-05-26 06:10:04 +0200 <hololeap> AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 630 Processor
2021-05-26 06:10:41 +0200Guest72(~Guest72@v097252.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
2021-05-26 06:10:55 +0200 <talismanick> hololeap: Also, since you're a gentoo user
2021-05-26 06:10:56 +0200 <talismanick> https://inv.riverside.rocks/watch?v=S8s9uzPIqQ4
2021-05-26 06:11:18 +0200 <talismanick> (I found this while looking for the classic "install Gentoo" video once)
2021-05-26 06:11:30 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: you'd probably do fine
2021-05-26 06:11:46 +0200 <hololeap> Install Gentoo is just a meme for people who haven't tried it
2021-05-26 06:11:51 +0200 <talismanick> (warning: offensive)
2021-05-26 06:11:52 +0200Guest72(~Guest72@v097252.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:11:57 +0200 <hololeap> lol
2021-05-26 06:12:12 +0200 <talismanick> Oh, I've installed it before. I stopped using it because compiling everything took way too long.
2021-05-26 06:12:15 +0200 <hololeap> tbh I've done it probably 100 times
2021-05-26 06:12:41 +0200jle`(~jle`@cpe-23-240-75-236.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:12:42 +0200 <hololeap> that is the stupidest reason to stop installing gentoo I've ever heard :)
2021-05-26 06:13:09 +0200talismanickcries in Firefox update
2021-05-26 06:13:09 +0200stevenxl_(~stevenlei@174.128.182.40)
2021-05-26 06:13:42 +0200 <hololeap> what is Void compared to Gentoo?
2021-05-26 06:13:42 +0200joniibou(~textual@softbank060120010042.bbtec.net) (Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 06:14:17 +0200 <talismanick> Light enough, doesn't make me compile and fiddle with everything.
2021-05-26 06:14:38 +0200 <hololeap> fair, but is it source-based?
2021-05-26 06:14:45 +0200 <talismanick> ofc not
2021-05-26 06:14:53 +0200 <hololeap> ok, so why are you crying?
2021-05-26 06:15:11 +0200 <talismanick> That's why Gentoo took way too much of my time.
2021-05-26 06:15:28 +0200 <talismanick> I said "that's it" and settled for Arch, until I eventually found Void
2021-05-26 06:15:30 +0200 <hololeap> www-client/firefox-bin
2021-05-26 06:15:38 +0200 <talismanick> huh
2021-05-26 06:15:46 +0200favonia(~favonia@user/favonia) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:15:57 +0200aji(~alex@prickle.ajitek.net)
2021-05-26 06:15:58 +0200 <hololeap> to be fair, there's not very many binary packages
2021-05-26 06:16:03 +0200stevenxl(~stevenlei@174.128.182.136) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:16:58 +0200joniibou(~joniibou@softbank060120010042.bbtec.net)
2021-05-26 06:17:42 +0200 <hololeap> but it behaves nearly perfectly 99% of the time :D
2021-05-26 06:18:10 +0200stevenxl_(~stevenlei@174.128.182.40) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:18:32 +0200lbseale_(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-26 06:19:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.56)
2021-05-26 06:19:29 +0200 <hololeap> tbh I get pissed off when using other distros. personal problem, I guess
2021-05-26 06:20:20 +0200 <hololeap> but the package QA is top-notch
2021-05-26 06:21:46 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:21:50 +0200sprocket(~a2fd47f0@ircip2.mibbit.com)
2021-05-26 06:23:49 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.56) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:24:49 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:745b:c700:b4c:aac3)
2021-05-26 06:24:53 +0200rbutler(uid5425@id-5425.highgate.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 06:25:41 +0200Guest93(~Guest93@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net)
2021-05-26 06:27:15 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:27:37 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:d91d:8a28:4c8f:b6e5)
2021-05-26 06:28:07 +0200Guest93(~Guest93@187.83.249.216.dyn.smithville.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:29:57 +0200sprocket(~a2fd47f0@ircip2.mibbit.com) (Quit: https://mibbit.com Online IRC Client)
2021-05-26 06:32:27 +0200 <hololeap> talismanick: watched the video. hilarious
2021-05-26 06:33:09 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:33:10 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:d91d:8a28:4c8f:b6e5) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:33:29 +0200 <hololeap> gentoo users are sup3r l33t h4x0rz w1th m4d sk1l5
2021-05-26 06:33:48 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253)
2021-05-26 06:34:05 +0200 <hololeap> the 05 pwns any0n3 who g3ts n34r
2021-05-26 06:35:01 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 06:35:09 +0200shapr(~user@pool-100-36-247-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 06:36:03 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 06:36:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.38)
2021-05-26 06:37:17 +0200 <hololeap> everybody's m4d pwn4g3 is sup3r n00b compared to g3nt00
2021-05-26 06:38:30 +0200 <slowButPresent> distcc is fun when it works
2021-05-26 06:40:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.38) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:41:11 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:42:23 +0200stevenxl(~stevenlei@174.128.182.40)
2021-05-26 06:44:31 +0200 <hololeap> totally
2021-05-26 06:45:20 +0200xandaros(~xandaros@user/xandaros)
2021-05-26 06:45:21 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 06:45:46 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-05-26 06:46:11 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 06:46:27 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2021-05-26 06:46:58 +0200stevenxl(~stevenlei@174.128.182.40) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:47:33 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 06:47:50 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@user/axman6)
2021-05-26 06:47:51 +0200MidAutumnMoon0(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-26 06:49:39 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:49:39 +0200MidAutumnMoon0MidAutumnMoon
2021-05-26 06:51:20 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:53:24 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.73)
2021-05-26 06:54:41 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPERFullstackArchmag
2021-05-26 06:54:58 +0200xkapastel(uid17782@id-17782.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 06:56:59 +0200 <talismanick> Nice, looks like I can finally write something in Haskell without Emacs failing
2021-05-26 06:57:56 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.73) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:57:56 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 06:59:28 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:02:38 +0200 <oats> Has #haskell in fr**node been hijacked yet?
2021-05-26 07:03:08 +0200 <talismanick> oats: According to r/haskell, yes
2021-05-26 07:04:30 +0200FullstackArchmagpjetcetal
2021-05-26 07:04:45 +0200pjetcetalGIANTWORLDKEEPER
2021-05-26 07:05:02 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPERFullstackArchmag
2021-05-26 07:05:20 +0200thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.115.71)
2021-05-26 07:06:39 +0200 <Axman6> yeah they burnt it - Ed has regained control, but it won't stick around
2021-05-26 07:08:30 +0200 <edwardk> its currently forwarded to ##haskell on freenode for reasons
2021-05-26 07:08:40 +0200 <Axman6> they sent in a droid, shot all the ops in the head, removed all the bans, and redirected the channel to ##haskell, all because we'd dared to mention this network in the topic
2021-05-26 07:08:41 +0200FullstackArchmag(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25) (Quit: EXIT)
2021-05-26 07:08:48 +0200 <edwardk> but i have control. we don't have any of our ops left for the most part, etc.
2021-05-26 07:08:54 +0200thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.115.71) (Quit: If it wasn't written down it didn't happen...)
2021-05-26 07:09:02 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25)
2021-05-26 07:09:07 +0200 <edwardk> but there's like 29 people in a topic chat room
2021-05-26 07:09:49 +0200 <edwardk> and its now appropriately a topic chatroom as the #haskell is the official channel, and er.. well, our irc page links to libera as the official network, so it seems most appropriate
2021-05-26 07:10:08 +0200 <edwardk> so currently #haskell forwards people to ##haskell
2021-05-26 07:10:23 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.58)
2021-05-26 07:10:24 +0200 <edwardk> that may or may not give us more wiggle room on topic contents. not seeking to rock that boat right now
2021-05-26 07:10:49 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-26 07:10:52 +0200 <edwardk> just wanting to make sure that when the bots come _someone_ can act.
2021-05-26 07:11:20 +0200 <dy> I bet the topic checking bot isn't especially bright.
2021-05-26 07:11:39 +0200 <dy> An infinite redirect loop or an infinite 16kbps download landmine would likely keep it busy for a while : ^ p
2021-05-26 07:11:54 +0200 <dy> (If they start crawling URLs and not just regex matching.)
2021-05-26 07:12:51 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-173-38.eurotel.cz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:12:53 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-26 07:14:02 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25) (Quit: EXIT)
2021-05-26 07:14:23 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25)
2021-05-26 07:15:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.58) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:17:16 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPERGuest6628
2021-05-26 07:17:45 +0200anandprabhu(~anandprab@87.201.97.214)
2021-05-26 07:17:51 +0200 <oats> edwardk: guess we have to resort to leaving riddles or something in topics now :P
2021-05-26 07:18:20 +0200Guest6628(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 07:18:41 +0200 <edwardk> oats: i just linked to the haskell.org/irc page, not a terribly good riddle, but its a breadcrumb for the curious who came expecting 2k people and found 20.
2021-05-26 07:18:44 +0200Tomurb(~tom@92-17.net.optinet.cz)
2021-05-26 07:19:01 +0200 <edwardk> and its really just that i can't fit the names of 64+ haskell related topic channels in the channel topic.
2021-05-26 07:19:11 +0200Guest10(~Guest10@113.172.47.69)
2021-05-26 07:19:44 +0200 <Axman6> "We have moved all out communications to use LibreOffice"
2021-05-26 07:19:50 +0200notzmv(~zmv@user/notzmv)
2021-05-26 07:20:06 +0200 <dy> You're given a complex expression and a set of simple types and operations.
2021-05-26 07:20:19 +0200 <dy> When you work out (or infer) the type signature it spells the new server location.
2021-05-26 07:20:31 +0200 <dibblego> those with homework questions will be stuck, genius!
2021-05-26 07:20:40 +0200 <Axman6> ha
2021-05-26 07:20:43 +0200 <dy> Two birds, one stone!
2021-05-26 07:21:07 +0200 <Axman6> > map succ "irc.libre.chat#haskell
2021-05-26 07:21:08 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:33: error:
2021-05-26 07:21:08 +0200 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
2021-05-26 07:21:13 +0200 <Axman6> > map succ "irc.libre.chat #haskell"
2021-05-26 07:21:15 +0200 <lambdabot> "jsd/mjcsf/dibu!$ibtlfmm"
2021-05-26 07:25:11 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 07:26:42 +0200bhrgunatha(~bhrgunath@2001-b011-8011-6163-fde3-9a54-1125-48fe.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net)
2021-05-26 07:26:47 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.23)
2021-05-26 07:27:08 +0200unyu(~pyon@user/pyon)
2021-05-26 07:27:16 +0200xlei(znc@pool-68-129-84-118.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 07:27:30 +0200 <joeyh> good idea, but you can also comment on the situation if you /topic map succ "hqb-khaqd-bg`s\US\"g`rjdkk"
2021-05-26 07:27:54 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:29:27 +0200xerox_xerox
2021-05-26 07:31:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.23) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:32:05 +0200anandprabhu(~anandprab@87.201.97.214) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 07:33:34 +0200steven1(~steven@209.58.129.97)
2021-05-26 07:34:09 +0200thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.115.71)
2021-05-26 07:34:31 +0200xff0x_xff0x
2021-05-26 07:35:03 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:35:12 +0200thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.115.71) ()
2021-05-26 07:35:18 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-05-26 07:36:22 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-26 07:40:49 +0200joniibou(~joniibou@softbank060120010042.bbtec.net) (Quit: joniibou)
2021-05-26 07:41:05 +0200joniibou(~joniibou@softbank060120010042.bbtec.net)
2021-05-26 07:41:14 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@cm-84.212.100.140.getinternet.no)
2021-05-26 07:42:03 +0200 <steven1> hello, let's say I have an Expr data type in a programming language, and I want to take an arbitrary Expr and replace some known pattern with another, for example maybe I want to replace a subexpression that consists of a Application to a Lambda with just the body of the Lambda. I wrote a fold for this data type, but I'm starting to think that it's not enough for what I want to do. It seems like I
2021-05-26 07:42:05 +0200 <steven1> need to fold over it while also reconstructing it as I go. What's the correct tool for this?
2021-05-26 07:43:05 +0200 <steven1> the fold is good for identifying those patterns, but swapping out a pattern for something else seems trickier
2021-05-26 07:43:09 +0200 <dy> It depends on the kind of replacements you want to do. i.e how much "context" above and below they need.
2021-05-26 07:43:36 +0200 <dy> This gets into fancier and trickier recursion schemes.
2021-05-26 07:43:57 +0200 <steven1> let's say I know how much context, e.g. my example of checking for (Application (Lambda ...) params)
2021-05-26 07:44:33 +0200 <dy> You could write a function that matches (Application (Lambda ...) params and returns your substitution (and recurses for ... and params) while leaving other stuff alone, no?
2021-05-26 07:44:33 +0200 <xerox> edwardk: I guess the ".tld" ones should say "-tld" on the irc page now?
2021-05-26 07:44:42 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-05-26 07:44:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
2021-05-26 07:44:49 +0200 <dy> rewrite (Application (Lambda ...) params = ...
2021-05-26 07:44:51 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@97-116-14-180.mpls.qwest.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-05-26 07:44:56 +0200 <dy> rewrite other = other
2021-05-26 07:45:01 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@97-116-14-180.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-26 07:45:06 +0200 <edwardk> xerox: yeah i mentioned it to davean after the page got pushed
2021-05-26 07:45:11 +0200 <dy> Then apply it to the top level Expr and you'll get back a new one.
2021-05-26 07:45:12 +0200 <steven1> well I need to recurse and look for subexpressions
2021-05-26 07:45:36 +0200 <edwardk> but i don't think anything has come of it pull request wise
2021-05-26 07:45:39 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98)
2021-05-26 07:45:47 +0200 <steven1> I could write it all out but I wouldn't be able to use it for anything else. I'm hoping there's a solution that's more general
2021-05-26 07:45:53 +0200 <dy> Can you paste a concrete (but minimal) example of the kind of rewrite you'd want to do?
2021-05-26 07:46:03 +0200trent(~trent@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-05-26 07:46:04 +0200 <xerox> ok
2021-05-26 07:46:05 +0200 <steven1> yep let me write one up
2021-05-26 07:46:08 +0200 <dy> Well, each rewrite would require one function, right?
2021-05-26 07:46:29 +0200tycho(~royce@133-133-42-72.gci.net)
2021-05-26 07:46:33 +0200 <dy> Then, you'd want to figure out how you could compose those all into a single function you can pass the entire Expr through...
2021-05-26 07:46:38 +0200tycho(~royce@133-133-42-72.gci.net) (WeeChat 2.8)
2021-05-26 07:46:43 +0200 <xerox> edwardk: btw do founder/ops status from fn carry over here or is it a brand new world
2021-05-26 07:46:55 +0200 <edwardk> all the ops/founder crap got reset
2021-05-26 07:47:13 +0200 <edwardk> i had to forge them from whole cloth. just did so for everyone in #haskell-ops
2021-05-26 07:47:25 +0200 <edwardk> at least the ones left over there
2021-05-26 07:47:33 +0200 <dy> steven1 it sounds like you want some generic way to declaratively specify arbitrary match-and-replace's of sub-Exprs.
2021-05-26 07:47:34 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:47:39 +0200 <dy> That might be a lot more work than it's worth.
2021-05-26 07:47:44 +0200 <steven1> yes that's what I want
2021-05-26 07:47:49 +0200 <steven1> ah thought it might not be that bad
2021-05-26 07:47:57 +0200 <steven1> because the 'match' part is easy with a foldable instance
2021-05-26 07:48:11 +0200 <dy> How would you specify the rewrite rules?
2021-05-26 07:48:15 +0200 <edwardk> i'm just glad that most of the channels i ran were in ## namespaces where the eye of sauron didn't pass
2021-05-26 07:48:26 +0200 <dy> And would that specification be any shorter than a normal function that does the rewrite itself?
2021-05-26 07:48:47 +0200 <dy> This might be a case of YAGNI.
2021-05-26 07:48:48 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2021-05-26 07:48:53 +0200 <steven1> mostly because I could only specify the cases I want. I'll give an example of what I'm imagining
2021-05-26 07:49:27 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:50:08 +0200 <dy> You can specify only the cases you want with a plain old function too.
2021-05-26 07:50:10 +0200 <steven1> recurseSubstituteExpr (\e -> case e of App (Lam param body) arg -> body; a -> a)
2021-05-26 07:50:19 +0200 <steven1> pretend the first case makes sense :)
2021-05-26 07:50:23 +0200 <dy> rewrite1 (Foo ...) = ...; rewrite1 other = other
2021-05-26 07:50:28 +0200 <dy> rewrite2 (Foo ...) = ...; rewrite2 other = other
2021-05-26 07:50:36 +0200 <dy> Bar *
2021-05-26 07:51:00 +0200 <dy> And then compose the two, e.g. rewrite = rewrite2 . rewrite1 (or whatever other order is appropriate)
2021-05-26 07:51:15 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li)
2021-05-26 07:51:23 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li) ()
2021-05-26 07:51:24 +0200 <steven1> that will only match Foo at the top level, I need to find occurences anywhere in the tree
2021-05-26 07:51:57 +0200 <steven1> there are other things like Case, Let, etc. the pattern I'm talking about could appear anywhere
2021-05-26 07:51:58 +0200 <dy> Ah yeah good point. A few ways to go about that.
2021-05-26 07:52:16 +0200 <dy> 1. Have a Foldable or similar instance to make the default case automatically peel off a layer and recurse.
2021-05-26 07:52:27 +0200 <dy> 2. Some weird split-apply-map type dealio.
2021-05-26 07:52:32 +0200 <steven1> yep I have the foldable instance
2021-05-26 07:53:31 +0200 <steven1> but seems that when I fold, I also need to reconstruct the expr as I go back up. And I don't know if it's actually possible, since some of the constructors take two sub-expressions for example
2021-05-26 07:53:34 +0200Tomurb(~tom@92-17.net.optinet.cz) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:53:47 +0200 <steven1> it makes sense to reconstruct a list with a fold but not a tree
2021-05-26 07:53:55 +0200 <steven1> at least that's what it seems like
2021-05-26 07:53:59 +0200 <c_wraith> trees can be folded just fine.
2021-05-26 07:54:00 +0200 <dy> Right, or it could be that your rewrite removes a subtree.
2021-05-26 07:54:04 +0200 <dy> Or adds new ones.
2021-05-26 07:54:09 +0200 <steven1> yep
2021-05-26 07:54:10 +0200 <dy> Which also now need to be traversed.
2021-05-26 07:54:26 +0200 <steven1> well if it helps let's say the new ones don't necessarily have to be traversed
2021-05-26 07:54:32 +0200 <dy> There's probably a clever way to do this with Traversable or such, but I think just writing a normal function would be easier.
2021-05-26 07:54:53 +0200 <dy> yes, you'll have to add a default "do nothing and just recurse" case as you expand your Expr type, but that's likely way less work that implementing and debugging all of this.
2021-05-26 07:54:53 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li)
2021-05-26 07:54:58 +0200 <dy> Which, I think, amounts to a complete macro system.
2021-05-26 07:55:20 +0200 <dy> If this is a toy language or personal project, just KiSS.
2021-05-26 07:55:29 +0200 <c_wraith> I mean, you probably would want a paramorphism rather than a catamorphism, but there's no challenge using them for local rewrites.
2021-05-26 07:56:15 +0200 <c_wraith> on the other hand, some of the Plated tools in lens might also be interesting
2021-05-26 07:56:26 +0200 <steven1> yeah Plated is for recursion schemes right?
2021-05-26 07:56:39 +0200 <c_wraith> not exactly. Related, but not the same
2021-05-26 07:57:19 +0200 <steven1> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.0.1/docs/Control-Lens-Combinators.html#v:rewrite
2021-05-26 07:57:22 +0200 <steven1> seems very related
2021-05-26 07:57:40 +0200 <c_wraith> yeah, the rewrite* family of functions are all variations on this idea
2021-05-26 07:58:09 +0200 <dy> c_wraith here with the better help
2021-05-26 07:58:21 +0200 <dy> I didn't realize rewrites were in lens! Neat.
2021-05-26 07:58:42 +0200gabriel(~gabriel@84-114-119-49.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
2021-05-26 07:58:59 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 07:59:50 +0200Guest10(~Guest10@113.172.47.69) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 08:00:33 +0200meejah(~meejah@rutas.meejah.ca)
2021-05-26 08:01:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.88)
2021-05-26 08:01:28 +0200bah(~bah@s176125235106.blix.com)
2021-05-26 08:02:01 +0200 <steven1> only thing is that we may not want to take the dependency on lens. I wonder is there any resource that shows how to derive this Plated concept from first principles, then maybe I can try to implement it myself for this specific data type? Hopefully I'm not asking too much here :)
2021-05-26 08:02:17 +0200 <steven1> or just some info on Plated, since I've only heard of it briefly
2021-05-26 08:02:18 +0200 <c_wraith> that idea is extracted from libraries like uniplate and biplate
2021-05-26 08:02:34 +0200 <c_wraith> so if you want smaller dependencies, they're options
2021-05-26 08:02:49 +0200TheCoffeMaker(~TheCoffeM@user/thecoffemaker)
2021-05-26 08:03:29 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b8453bc10024c96ca01cd76d14.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-26 08:03:35 +0200 <steven1> ok, I'll take a look
2021-05-26 08:03:46 +0200 <steven1> thanks a lot c_wraith dy !
2021-05-26 08:04:03 +0200acid(~acid@user/acid)
2021-05-26 08:04:57 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net) (ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2021-05-26 08:05:07 +0200bontaq(~user@ool-18e47f8d.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-26 08:06:03 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.88) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:07:13 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent) (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 08:08:05 +0200 <steven1> so looking at Uniplate, it looks like I only need to implement one function for my datatype that does a transformation like this
2021-05-26 08:08:12 +0200 <steven1> uniplate (Add (Val 1) (Neg (Val 2))) = ([Val 1, Neg (Val 2)], \[a,b] -> Add a b)
2021-05-26 08:08:21 +0200plv(~pasha@pool-71-125-13-187.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 08:08:23 +0200 <steven1> and everything else should follow from that I guess
2021-05-26 08:09:50 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 08:10:46 +0200noddy(~self@c6a7c791.vpn.njalla.net)
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2021-05-26 08:15:37 +0200bah_bah
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2021-05-26 08:17:48 +0200doc2(~doc@14-201-241-128.tpgi.com.au)
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2021-05-26 08:18:34 +0200plv(~pasha@pool-71-125-13-187.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 08:18:45 +0200Bartosz(~textual@50.35.220.89) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 08:19:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.76)
2021-05-26 08:20:01 +0200wirtshutter(~wirtshutt@190.193.215.9)
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2021-05-26 08:20:04 +0200Guest11(~textual@146.212.240.255)
2021-05-26 08:22:51 +0200berberman_(~berberman@user/berberman)
2021-05-26 08:23:34 +0200berberman(~berberman@user/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:23:47 +0200 <Axman6> I've never seen the rewrite parts of lens before, how exciting! I've used the partsOf template party trick many times but it's nice to see there's lots of ways to do crazy things
2021-05-26 08:23:51 +0200ignis(~ignisf@user/ignis)
2021-05-26 08:24:54 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.76) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:25:43 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.49.19.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-05-26 08:26:00 +0200 <steven1> Axman6: I'm curious, what's the trick?
2021-05-26 08:26:08 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 08:26:11 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-05-26 08:26:14 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25)
2021-05-26 08:26:20 +0200julm(~julm@user/julm)
2021-05-26 08:27:54 +0200 <Axman6> % (Just "Hello","world!", ["Here","are","some","strings"]) & partsOf template %~ (reverse :: [Char] -> [Char])
2021-05-26 08:27:54 +0200 <yahb> Axman6: (Just "sgnir","tsemos",["erae","reH","!dlr","owolleH"])
2021-05-26 08:28:07 +0200 <Axman6> % (Just "Hello","world!", ["Here","are","some","strings"]) & partsOf template %~ (reverse :: [[Char]] -> [[Char]])
2021-05-26 08:28:07 +0200 <yahb> Axman6: (Just "strings","some",["are","Here","world!","Hello"])
2021-05-26 08:29:00 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
2021-05-26 08:29:14 +0200 <steven1> wow
2021-05-26 08:29:34 +0200 <Axman6> % (Just "Hello","world!", ["Here","are","some","strings"]) & partsOf template %~ (reverse :: [[[Char]]] -> [[[Char]]])
2021-05-26 08:29:34 +0200 <yahb> Axman6: (Just "Hello","world!",["Here","are","some","strings"])
2021-05-26 08:30:10 +0200 <Axman6> % (Just "Hello","world!", ["Here","are","some","strings"]) & partsOf template %~ (map reverse :: [[[Char]]] -> [[[Char]]])
2021-05-26 08:30:10 +0200 <yahb> Axman6: (Just "Hello","world!",["strings","some","are","Here"])
2021-05-26 08:30:38 +0200 <steven1> and apparently template is similar to uniplate https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-5.0.1/docs/Data-Data-Lens.html#v:template
2021-05-26 08:30:43 +0200chddr(~Thunderbi@91.226.34.182)
2021-05-26 08:30:52 +0200imdoor(~imdoor@balticom-142-78-50.balticom.lv)
2021-05-26 08:31:05 +0200 <Axman6> yeah I have never had a good idea of what the differences are
2021-05-26 08:31:28 +0200 <Axman6> it's a party trick, I don't need to understand it :)
2021-05-26 08:31:58 +0200 <Axman6> but it does open up some really interesting possibilities, you can do things like apply a function to all strings which are URLs across a whole structure
2021-05-26 08:35:58 +0200Heffalump(~ganesh@urchin.earth.li) ()
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2021-05-26 08:54:47 +0200dyrasenqan
2021-05-26 08:54:52 +0200rasenqandy
2021-05-26 08:55:22 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.113)
2021-05-26 08:56:21 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 08:59:27 +0200NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@user/ninjatrappeur)
2021-05-26 08:59:46 +0200Tomurb(~tom@158.194.92.121)
2021-05-26 09:00:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.113) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:01:02 +0200Brumaire(~quassel@81-64-14-121.rev.numericable.fr)
2021-05-26 09:01:36 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 09:03:04 +0200aforemny(~aforemny@static.248.158.34.188.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-26 09:03:37 +0200elcaro(~anonymous@45.32.191.75)
2021-05-26 09:03:56 +0200 <edwardk> I may be reading too many ML papers lately, but "rasengan" implies the existence of both discriminator and generator networks. This might explain recent freenode discrimination policy changes. There's a foss function joke in there somewhere to be had.
2021-05-26 09:04:01 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@122.160.65.250)
2021-05-26 09:05:17 +0200noddy(~self@c6a7c791.vpn.njalla.net)
2021-05-26 09:05:17 +0200noddy(~self@c6a7c791.vpn.njalla.net) (Changing host)
2021-05-26 09:05:17 +0200noddy(~self@user/noddy)
2021-05-26 09:07:54 +0200 <Axman6> Get some sleep Ed :P
2021-05-26 09:08:19 +0200 <Hecate> the existence of a South-Korean prince IRC overlord called "rasengan" implies the existence of a North-Korean general IPoAC operator called "chidori"
2021-05-26 09:08:19 +0200 <edwardk> Axman6: can't sleep clowns will eat me.
2021-05-26 09:08:38 +0200 <Axman6> clowns will eat the network
2021-05-26 09:10:46 +0200 <edwardk> #freenode-* is full of clown price jokes and dear leader references right now
2021-05-26 09:11:35 +0200 <alloca> the network formerly known as freenode
2021-05-26 09:12:01 +0200khumba(~kvirc@S01066038e0ca1250.ok.shawcable.net) ()
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2021-05-26 09:19:55 +0200stemid(~nocturnal@i-lands.anark.ist)
2021-05-26 09:20:02 +0200stemid(~nocturnal@i-lands.anark.ist) ()
2021-05-26 09:20:42 +0200akegalj(~akegalj@213.149.51.164)
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2021-05-26 09:29:31 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.108)
2021-05-26 09:30:12 +0200Guest11klemzi32
2021-05-26 09:30:48 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
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2021-05-26 09:32:39 +0200amk(~amk@176.61.106.150) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:33:22 +0200amk(~amk@176.61.106.150)
2021-05-26 09:34:05 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.108) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 09:38:45 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2021-05-26 09:40:41 +0200Pupintor(~Pupintor@ip-80-113-17-34.ip.prioritytelecom.net)
2021-05-26 09:40:57 +0200 <boxscape> "Support the design for dependent types" has just been accepted
2021-05-26 09:41:02 +0200 <boxscape> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/378
2021-05-26 09:42:16 +0200xandaros(~xandaros@user/xandaros) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 09:42:26 +0200 <bontaq> ooo
2021-05-26 09:43:28 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253)
2021-05-26 09:43:36 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:94:234b:587f:cd53)
2021-05-26 09:44:17 +0200hughjfchen(~hughjfche@117.136.40.253) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 09:44:54 +0200 <wz1000> can only imagine the drama that went on behind the scenes suggested by Iavor resigning recently
2021-05-26 09:44:56 +0200Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@dslb-088-075-022-175.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-05-26 09:45:08 +0200 <tomsmeding_> edwardk: ircbrowse has failed to join this channel since may 22nd apparently; maybe the issue is that I should register with nickserv but I'm not doing so. I feel like dropping freenode entirely at this point though
2021-05-26 09:45:11 +0200 <bontaq> I wonder if leaning into dependent types will simplify GHC? I've only poked around at them but I've heard it makes a lot of trickier features in compilers simpler
2021-05-26 09:45:48 +0200 <wz1000> bontaq: I doubt it.
2021-05-26 09:45:55 +0200tomsmeding_tomsmeding
2021-05-26 09:47:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: can I drop #xmonad on freenode from ircbrowse or do you want me to keep it for a while?
2021-05-26 09:48:12 +0200Athas_Athas
2021-05-26 09:48:13 +0200 <boxscape> Alas GHC will at least have to maintain two separate namespaces for a long time, for backcompat
2021-05-26 09:48:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.91)
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2021-05-26 09:59:47 +0200Robin_Jadoul(~Robin_Jad@152.67.64.160)
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2021-05-26 10:08:31 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be)
2021-05-26 10:08:45 +0200 <bontaq> that really is fantastic news that it was accepted, I was worried that haskell would lean too much into industrial, simplified land and not enough into research
2021-05-26 10:09:25 +0200Toast52_Toast52
2021-05-26 10:09:44 +0200 <bontaq> but now I can pretty happily spend the next decade in it and know the future's bright
2021-05-26 10:09:58 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
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2021-05-26 10:30:28 +0200meltedbrain2000a(~tekserf@31.4.247.182) ()
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2021-05-26 10:31:56 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-166-29.eurotel.cz)
2021-05-26 10:32:34 +0200 <starlord> is there some structured method or what you would call it, to deconstruct an explicitly recursive function to a (cata|ana|para|zygo|.*)morphism?
2021-05-26 10:33:29 +0200Voeid(luke@voeid.cf)
2021-05-26 10:34:16 +0200 <starlord> I've used the recursion schemes quite a lot lately and I'm starting to build a strong intuition for how they work but when I look at my old explicitly recursive functions I can't really tell how to reorganize them, so I figured there might be some formal method or something to do this
2021-05-26 10:34:54 +0200Ikosit(~Ikosit@user/ikosit)
2021-05-26 10:39:05 +0200hellcp(~hellcp@83.24.148.243.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2021-05-26 10:39:42 +0200hellcplcp
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2021-05-26 10:41:13 +0200Ikosit(~Ikosit@user/ikosit) ()
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2021-05-26 10:41:59 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@228.81-166-205.customer.lyse.net)
2021-05-26 10:42:07 +0200SanchayanM(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127)
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2021-05-26 10:44:29 +0200skykanin(~skykanin@228.81-166-205.customer.lyse.net) ()
2021-05-26 10:44:56 +0200a1paca(~a1paca@user/a1paca)
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2021-05-26 10:48:02 +0200 <siraben> starlord: for catamorphisms there's a nice technique (for lists) laid out in https://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~pszgmh/fold.pdf
2021-05-26 10:48:20 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex)
2021-05-26 10:50:48 +0200 <starlord> siraben thank you, I'll check that out
2021-05-26 10:52:49 +0200trent(~trent@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 10:52:58 +0200 <siraben> starlord: also, there are quite a few fusion laws for those recursion schemes, such as how to combine two catamorphisms into one and more
2021-05-26 10:53:14 +0200 <starlord> It'd be nice to have some visual aid when working on those old recursive traversals, like when you draw arrows and types with the cathegory thery "notation"
2021-05-26 10:55:40 +0200 <siraben> starlord: ah, commuting diagrams are the right tool for that yes
2021-05-26 10:55:50 +0200 <siraben> I think https://www4.di.uminho.pt/~jno/ps/pdbc.pdf is a great resource on this
2021-05-26 10:55:54 +0200 <starlord> ah that's interesting, I've been doing a lot of transforming trees lately where I transform my concrete syntax tree into an abstract one through several levels of catamorphisms
2021-05-26 10:56:13 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-26 10:56:21 +0200 <siraben> starlord: so you know about F-algebras?
2021-05-26 10:56:36 +0200 <siraben> that is, how you can define cata for a fixpoing of a functor F
2021-05-26 10:56:39 +0200 <siraben> fixpoint*
2021-05-26 10:57:15 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 10:57:24 +0200xerox(~edi@user/edi) (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 10:57:25 +0200 <starlord> yes, I've been trying to draw them and I pretty much understand them at some level
2021-05-26 10:57:38 +0200 <siraben> ah, nice
2021-05-26 10:58:22 +0200 <starlord> the hardest part for me is understanding the fixpoint datatype though. I mean I can get the code to run but after battling the compiler for a good while every time
2021-05-26 10:58:44 +0200 <siraben> oh also conal.net/talks/folds-and-unfolds.pdf is great
2021-05-26 10:58:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.43)
2021-05-26 10:59:47 +0200Guest97(~Guest97@31-10-165-72.cgn.dynamic.upc.ch)
2021-05-26 10:59:53 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b8453bc10024c96ca01cd76d14.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bfrk)
2021-05-26 11:00:15 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b8453bc10024c96ca01cd76d14.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-26 11:00:18 +0200 <arahael> weird, i thought the haskell channel on freenode was closed? still 60-somethings there.
2021-05-26 11:00:45 +0200 <starlord> cheers mate, you've helped me out massively!
2021-05-26 11:01:21 +0200aasirc(~aasirc@91.193.5.10)
2021-05-26 11:01:28 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 11:01:43 +0200 <siraben> no problem! this stuff is fun for sure :)
2021-05-26 11:01:48 +0200 <boxscape> arahael https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nl74hc/freenode_has_unilaterally_taken_over_haskell/
2021-05-26 11:02:04 +0200 <starlord> siraben it is fun, for a very particular kind of people haha!
2021-05-26 11:03:51 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.43) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:04:33 +0200 <siraben> starlord: there's also the venerable Algebra of Programming of book where I learned this stuff, but I literally needed to get a math professor to read it with me
2021-05-26 11:04:50 +0200 <siraben> I think Program Design by Calculation does a great job of making it easier to understand
2021-05-26 11:04:58 +0200 <siraben> s/Programming of//
2021-05-26 11:05:07 +0200 <starlord> It seems like a good book
2021-05-26 11:05:17 +0200 <arahael> boxscape: thanks for that!
2021-05-26 11:05:23 +0200 <starlord> I like that picture on page 3
2021-05-26 11:05:43 +0200chele_(~chele@user/chele)
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2021-05-26 11:12:50 +0200dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@178-117-36-167.access.telenet.be)
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2021-05-26 11:13:03 +0200fabfianda(~fabfianda@net-93-148-125-174.cust.dsl.teletu.it)
2021-05-26 11:15:22 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
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2021-05-26 11:15:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> arahael: perhaps you landed in freenode##haskell?
2021-05-26 11:16:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> (mind the double #)
2021-05-26 11:16:49 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 11:16:54 +0200jalonso(~user@90.106.128.3)
2021-05-26 11:17:06 +0200Toast52(~Toast52@151.192.167.120) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 11:17:14 +0200 <arahael> tomsmeding: Nope, the single-hash.
2021-05-26 11:17:21 +0200 <arahael> Let me try again.
2021-05-26 11:17:34 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-26 11:17:37 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.52)
2021-05-26 11:17:41 +0200tomsmedingleft a few minutes ago, but when I did there were still 400+ users there (all non-voiced so unable to speak since the forced move)
2021-05-26 11:17:57 +0200 <arahael> Ah, found it. Yep, you're right - auto-forwards to ##haskell now.
2021-05-26 11:19:26 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@2a02:587:2805:3d8f:5dcc:c286:46bb:54f7)
2021-05-26 11:19:31 +0200Dykam(Dykam@dykam.nl)
2021-05-26 11:20:02 +0200horex539(~horex539@2a02:a03f:6aa5:a00:94:234b:587f:cd53) ()
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2021-05-26 11:20:28 +0200SanchayanM(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127)
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2021-05-26 11:21:12 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151)
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2021-05-26 11:27:36 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-05-26 11:28:13 +0200MidAutumnMoon(~MidAutumn@user/midautumnmoon)
2021-05-26 11:28:25 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 11:30:52 +0200 <curiousgay> is there a boolean xor in base Haskell?
2021-05-26 11:31:54 +0200 <wz1000> curiousgay: (/=)
2021-05-26 11:31:55 +0200 <Taneb> curiousgay: (/=)
2021-05-26 11:32:17 +0200 <curiousgay> haha, right, thanks
2021-05-26 11:32:48 +0200 <Taneb> Data.Bits.xor also works since base 4.7
2021-05-26 11:33:14 +0200 <Taneb> Which... is older than I thought (was bundled with GHC 7.8)
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2021-05-26 11:34:41 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@user/tonyz)
2021-05-26 11:35:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.58)
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2021-05-26 11:41:36 +0200chele_chele
2021-05-26 11:41:42 +0200 <curiousgay> are there flags for GHC to print type errors more clearly?
2021-05-26 11:41:58 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 11:41:59 +0200nschoe(~quassel@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:8975:38ef:9ac6:6498)
2021-05-26 11:42:11 +0200 <curiousgay> there is a type error, I know where it is, but I don't why it is there
2021-05-26 11:42:22 +0200simmsb(~ben@2a02:c7f:343a:6d00:69bb:9905:870a:6538) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:44:24 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@user/tonyz) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 11:45:22 +0200 <bfrk> curiousgay: I am sure if you paste the error somewhere and provide a link someone can explain to you how to parse it
2021-05-26 11:45:43 +0200 <bfrk> s/error/err message/
2021-05-26 11:46:06 +0200Toast52(~Toast52@151.192.167.120)
2021-05-26 11:46:29 +0200bradparker(sid262931@id-262931.highgate.irccloud.com)
2021-05-26 11:46:41 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-26 11:47:05 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:47:30 +0200mankyKitty(uid31287@id-31287.brockwell.irccloud.com)
2021-05-26 11:47:57 +0200 <curiousgay> bfrk: alright, here are the error and code: https://pastebin.com/raw/ktuPjqjH https://pastebin.com/raw/1VRm4KMX
2021-05-26 11:48:57 +0200 <merijn> curiousgay: Ah
2021-05-26 11:49:02 +0200 <merijn> curiousgay: You messed up the $
2021-05-26 11:50:14 +0200 <merijn> hmm, or not,
2021-05-26 11:50:35 +0200 <merijn> I would say you should simplify it anyway to get something more readable :p
2021-05-26 11:50:41 +0200 <curiousgay> merijn: the code I've sent is a conversion of the previous working code I've written; https://pastebin.com/raw/KY3ZMHvT
2021-05-26 11:50:41 +0200 <merijn> For one:
2021-05-26 11:50:43 +0200 <merijn> :t mapMaybe
2021-05-26 11:50:44 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b]
2021-05-26 11:50:54 +0200 <merijn> Can replace the map + filter
2021-05-26 11:51:40 +0200 <merijn> curiousgay: findLetters returns a list, presumably?
2021-05-26 11:51:40 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.43)
2021-05-26 11:51:57 +0200 <curiousgay> yes
2021-05-26 11:52:58 +0200xnbya(~xnbya@2a01:4f8:c17:cbdd::1)
2021-05-26 11:53:17 +0200 <merijn> curiousgay: Here's an easy way to start: Try adding type signatures for everything in the where block
2021-05-26 11:53:44 +0200 <merijn> (one, because I'm too lazy to figure them out and two, you will get more precise errors)
2021-05-26 11:54:33 +0200Gurkenglas_Gurkenglas
2021-05-26 11:55:33 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 11:56:24 +0200Guest7438(~Guest74@185.11.25.251)
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2021-05-26 11:56:49 +0200Guest7438(~Guest74@185.11.25.251) ()
2021-05-26 11:57:58 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-80-180-196-134.pool80180.interbusiness.it)
2021-05-26 11:59:08 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 11:59:10 +0200 <bfrk> Well, the error message tells us the (inferred) type of some local bindings (findLetters, coords).
2021-05-26 11:59:38 +0200agumonke`(~user@88.160.31.174)
2021-05-26 12:01:12 +0200agumonkey(~user@88.160.31.174) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:03:22 +0200 <bfrk> It also tells that the highlighted expression is a function with the correct input type. But the output (result) has an excess Maybe layer.
2021-05-26 12:03:36 +0200Schrostfutz(~Schrostfu@p2e585eba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-26 12:03:42 +0200sviat13355(~sviat1335@93-77-247-133.ter.volia.net)
2021-05-26 12:04:01 +0200pe200012(~pe200012@119.131.208.84)
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2021-05-26 12:04:32 +0200 <bfrk> I think to see where the error originates we need to have the type of 'go'.
2021-05-26 12:05:04 +0200 <enicar> I think the use of `fromMaybe [] . listToMaybe` is suspicious, unless the type result is [[a]]…
2021-05-26 12:05:11 +0200meridion(~meridion@punt.hetgrotebos.org)
2021-05-26 12:06:13 +0200sviat13355(~sviat1335@93-77-247-133.ter.volia.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 12:06:38 +0200 <bfrk> @ty fromMaybe [] . listToMaybe
2021-05-26 12:06:39 +0200 <lambdabot> [[a]] -> [a]
2021-05-26 12:06:52 +0200 <Schrostfutz> I'm trying to find an error in my code: http://sprunge.us/4gUYUf. I'm wondering whether it's invalid to mix applicative syntax and monadic binds like that, is it possible to do it?
2021-05-26 12:06:53 +0200chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:07:25 +0200Baloo_(~Baloo@185.65.135.181)
2021-05-26 12:07:37 +0200bec(~bec@lfbn-idf1-1-2267-111.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-05-26 12:07:50 +0200 <Rembane> Schrostfutz: That should be possible. Does it typecheck?
2021-05-26 12:08:19 +0200 <maerwald> seems like the first <*> should be a <$>, but that's just a guess
2021-05-26 12:08:21 +0200therion(~therion@191.177.175.57)
2021-05-26 12:08:26 +0200 <bfrk> I think you want your first <*> to be <$>
2021-05-26 12:08:33 +0200tose(~tose@ip-85-160-8-1.eurotel.cz)
2021-05-26 12:09:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.89)
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2021-05-26 12:10:31 +0200 <bfrk> curiousgay: the easiest way to find the type of something is to add a signature with a hole: <expr> :: _
2021-05-26 12:11:23 +0200pera(~pera@user/pera)
2021-05-26 12:11:47 +0200 <bfrk> ahem, doesn't work a for an expression, should be a variable
2021-05-26 12:12:06 +0200 <curiousgay> merijn: thanks, that helped me to fix the type error
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2021-05-26 12:24:38 +0200 <Schrostfutz> maerwald, bfrk: You're right, that fixed it. Rembane: It didn't but I was struggling interpreting the mismatch error message
2021-05-26 12:26:11 +0200ignis(~ignisf@user/ignis) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 12:27:52 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
2021-05-26 12:28:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.77)
2021-05-26 12:28:36 +0200wirtshutter(~wirtshutt@190.193.215.9) (Quit: Saliendo)
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2021-05-26 12:30:47 +0200Toast52(~Toast52@151.192.167.120) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:31:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-05-26 12:32:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 12:34:20 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 12:35:50 +0200 <starlord> What I like to do a lot (part from using holes) is to do something like `let thing = <expr; let k = thing :: Int`, the compiler will yell about not being able to unify <type you need> with Int. I found it a bit more reliable than holes because constraining the type to a hole is not an error so the compiler will happily continue
2021-05-26 12:35:57 +0200gensyst(~gensyst@user/gensyst)
2021-05-26 12:36:51 +0200 <therion> I prefer doing this way as well, using holes sometimes gives me nothing.
2021-05-26 12:36:56 +0200SanchayanM(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127) (Quit: SanchayanM)
2021-05-26 12:37:16 +0200SanchayanM(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127)
2021-05-26 12:38:04 +0200 <starlord> conceptually using `Void` instead would be better but that requires an import :|
2021-05-26 12:38:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-26 12:39:14 +0200Baloo_(~Baloo@185.65.135.181)
2021-05-26 12:39:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 12:39:29 +0200Baloo_(~Baloo@185.65.135.181) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 12:39:34 +0200 <bfrk> Sometime I use an arbitrary simple type like Char, look at the error message, then refine.
2021-05-26 12:40:31 +0200Guest53e(~Guest53e@85.206.163.148)
2021-05-26 12:40:33 +0200 <bfrk> Especially in cases where _ doesn't work
2021-05-26 12:40:34 +0200SanchayanM(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 12:40:47 +0200 <starlord> bfrk what do you mean by refine?
2021-05-26 12:40:52 +0200SanchayanMaity_(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127)
2021-05-26 12:40:58 +0200 <Guest53e> Is Haskell growing or stagnant in industry?
2021-05-26 12:41:04 +0200 <Guest53e> worth investment?
2021-05-26 12:41:15 +0200 <maerwald> Guest53e: in what sense investment?
2021-05-26 12:41:32 +0200 <bfrk> e.g. if it tells me that the thing is a function I may change it to Char -> Char and so on
2021-05-26 12:41:35 +0200SanchayanMaity_(~Sanchayan@136.185.150.127) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 12:41:55 +0200 <Guest53e> for learning myself or adopting in my workplace. (btw, when i mention "haskell" people tend to run away and ghost me)
2021-05-26 12:42:08 +0200 <Guest53e> i think there's something about it that turns some people off
2021-05-26 12:42:09 +0200 <ksqsf> Z.Haskell seems to be a recent industrial product
2021-05-26 12:42:11 +0200 <maerwald> "adopting in my workplace" needs mote context
2021-05-26 12:42:19 +0200hr0m(~hr0m@2a03:4000:6:446f:899:53ff:fe87:3ffe)
2021-05-26 12:42:30 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 12:42:46 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.130.54) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 12:42:52 +0200 <bfrk> Guest53e: I had that experience, too, where I work
2021-05-26 12:42:55 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
2021-05-26 12:43:00 +0200dolio(~dolio@130.44.130.54)
2021-05-26 12:43:05 +0200 <maerwald> choosing technology should be done with care and haskell might or might not be the right fit, it depends
2021-05-26 12:43:11 +0200 <starlord> Guest53e I've never worked with haskell professionally, and I don't know anyone who ever did personally, and I think it's a bit esoteric to take over something older like Rust is doing. So if you want to learn a language to increase your chanses of finding jobs you should not learn haskell. However, there are many other reasons to learn haskell.
2021-05-26 12:43:24 +0200ksqsf(~textual@67.209.186.120.16clouds.com)
2021-05-26 12:44:29 +0200Baloo_(~Baloo_@185.65.135.181)
2021-05-26 12:44:31 +0200 <maerwald> There are increasingly many jobs in haskell, but IME they're tough in selection process
2021-05-26 12:44:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:44:41 +0200 <mniip> it's a narrow niche
2021-05-26 12:45:09 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 12:45:12 +0200 <Guest53e> ok maybe best to learn for hobby and worry about pro later
2021-05-26 12:45:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 12:46:11 +0200 <bfrk> IMO Haskell is very well suited for routine data processing stuff that people used to do in Perl and nowadays mostly use Python for.
2021-05-26 12:46:21 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.33)
2021-05-26 12:46:43 +0200 <maerwald> bfrk: I have high hopes for streamly becoming the de-facto standard for such things
2021-05-26 12:47:03 +0200 <Guest53e> bfrk there are just so many things you can model with ADT that doing with objects is ... PITA.
2021-05-26 12:47:05 +0200 <bfrk> The type discipline makes the result rock solid and the compiler makes it pretty fast.
2021-05-26 12:47:07 +0200 <maerwald> but the rewrite rules and inlining is so complex it appears to break with every other GHC release
2021-05-26 12:47:18 +0200 <bfrk> what is streamly?
2021-05-26 12:47:30 +0200 <maerwald> the fastes streaming implementation in haskell
2021-05-26 12:47:43 +0200 <maerwald> https://github.com/composewell/streamly
2021-05-26 12:47:47 +0200 <bfrk> thx
2021-05-26 12:48:05 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
2021-05-26 12:48:23 +0200 <ksqsf> i've been thinking lately of a possibility where i use haskell to express logic (with its expressivity and composibility) and generate high-performance code (C or Python or anything) from haskell code
2021-05-26 12:48:26 +0200poljar(~poljar@78-2-63-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-26 12:48:34 +0200 <Guest53e> bfrk i don't know what people "hate" about haskell thou. maybe comfort zone and plateu reached. maybe genuine criticisms. hard to know
2021-05-26 12:48:40 +0200 <bfrk> I think streaming is important but I find it gets a bit overhyped. Many tasks cannot be streamed properly, you need back references etc
2021-05-26 12:48:42 +0200 <ksqsf> does anyone use haskell this way and has experience?
2021-05-26 12:48:58 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at) ()
2021-05-26 12:50:12 +0200 <bfrk> I lately proposed a re-write of some perl code (1/3 the size of the original, 10 times faster) but the idea was rejected
2021-05-26 12:50:22 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
2021-05-26 12:50:33 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at) ()
2021-05-26 12:50:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:50:55 +0200 <maerwald> I believe in rewrites, but in the same language
2021-05-26 12:50:59 +0200 <Guest53e> bfrk what reasons did they give?
2021-05-26 12:51:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 12:51:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.33) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:51:34 +0200 <tdammers> IME, "hating" Haskell is often a matter of mindset. a programming language is only going to be pleasant if it somehow resonates with how you want to approach programming, and Haskell, being very far on the "deduction" side of things, absolutely does not resonate with the "trial and error" mindset
2021-05-26 12:52:02 +0200 <maerwald> tdammers: yeah, that's why I prototype in python
2021-05-26 12:52:02 +0200 <starlord> tdammers good point
2021-05-26 12:52:07 +0200khs9ne(~xxwa@khs9ne.mempool.co)
2021-05-26 12:52:18 +0200 <maerwald> if I don't know what I'm doing, I don't wanna write haskell
2021-05-26 12:52:30 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:52:36 +0200 <maerwald> if I have a clear picture, I do
2021-05-26 12:52:38 +0200 <tdammers> I do, but that's because it lends itself well to my workflow and my way of thinking about a problem
2021-05-26 12:52:59 +0200 <tdammers> "OK, let's see, what do we have", and then I write down the constraints of the problem domain that I know about
2021-05-26 12:53:09 +0200 <Guest53e> maerwald but haskell (ADT) allows you to create unclear picture and change it to clearer picture easier!
2021-05-26 12:53:20 +0200 <Guest53e> :D
2021-05-26 12:53:22 +0200 <maerwald> I'm more behavior-driven when it comes to prototypes... so python or bash
2021-05-26 12:53:26 +0200 <starlord> maerwald I usually start demain modeling in haskell, only writing the ADT's I need, when you're done with that you basically know what you're doing
2021-05-26 12:53:28 +0200 <tdammers> I kind of evolve a "type harness", which helps me ignore the stuff that doesn't matter
2021-05-26 12:53:37 +0200 <maerwald> when I understand the behavior, I try to figure out how to encode it
2021-05-26 12:53:40 +0200 <tdammers> and then the refactorability does the rest
2021-05-26 12:53:54 +0200 <tdammers> right, yeah, I don't care about "behavior" as much as I care about data structures
2021-05-26 12:54:32 +0200 <boxscape> % Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce (putStrLn "hello") GHC.Exts.void#
2021-05-26 12:54:32 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: hello
2021-05-26 12:54:33 +0200 <boxscape> ayy no segfault
2021-05-26 12:54:42 +0200 <tdammers> what do I have, what do I want - those are types; how do I get what I want from what I have - that's a function.
2021-05-26 12:54:56 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
2021-05-26 12:55:02 +0200simon1(~simon@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at) ()
2021-05-26 12:55:08 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 12:55:19 +0200 <tdammers> "can I write that function, and if so, how" is a question that's secondary to the thought process, really
2021-05-26 12:55:27 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 12:55:41 +0200poljar(~poljar@78-2-63-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 12:55:55 +0200poljar(~poljar@78-2-63-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-26 12:56:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 12:57:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 12:57:32 +0200 <boxscape> still trying to figure out how to unsafeCoerce getLine without getting a segfault
2021-05-26 13:00:21 +0200wenzel_(~wenzel@user/wenzel)
2021-05-26 13:01:59 +0200 <boxscape> % let fakeGetLine = pure @IO "input" in case Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce fakeGetLine GHC.Exts.void# of (# _ :: GHC.Exts.Void#, str :: String #) -> str
2021-05-26 13:02:00 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: "input"
2021-05-26 13:02:01 +0200 <boxscape> alright
2021-05-26 13:02:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 13:02:10 +0200 <Guest53e> ty all for the convo
2021-05-26 13:02:20 +0200 <boxscape> I'm actually surprised that String is different from (# Void#, String #) in terms of runtime rep
2021-05-26 13:02:29 +0200Guest53e(~Guest53e@85.206.163.148) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 13:02:41 +0200wenzel(~wenzel@user/wenzel) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 13:02:45 +0200 <maerwald> tdammers: I find it fascinating how different approaches can be in programming and, sadly, very little literature and research about it.
2021-05-26 13:03:03 +0200 <maerwald> As in: philosophy and psychology of programming is an understudied field
2021-05-26 13:03:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 13:03:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.118)
2021-05-26 13:03:30 +0200gilligan(~gilligan@b2b-109-90-166-248.unitymedia.biz)
2021-05-26 13:03:56 +0200 <maerwald> the concept of "complexity" alone (in non-technical terms even) is a controversial one
2021-05-26 13:04:12 +0200 <maerwald> people experience complexity different
2021-05-26 13:04:24 +0200chele(~chele@user/chele)
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2021-05-26 13:07:22 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-26 13:08:19 +0200 <maerwald> I experience anxiety if I can't follow program control flow anymore, so OOP naturally feels "complex" to me. But I know others that don't need the concept of control flow
2021-05-26 13:08:28 +0200 <agumonke`> do you think that good code is always a projection of a good structure / mental map of the problem and thus "clean"
2021-05-26 13:08:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 13:09:18 +0200 <agumonke`> maerwald: smalltalk oop is a tad less imperative/stateful and felt easier, but java oop is a drag to me.. potential statefulness breaks my neurons very rapidly
2021-05-26 13:09:38 +0200lbseale__(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-26 13:10:16 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Quit: finn_elija)
2021-05-26 13:10:20 +0200nuno(~e4rfwedfs@bl17-183-208.dsl.telepac.pt)
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2021-05-26 13:11:41 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2021-05-26 13:11:44 +0200 <maerwald> even "message passing", which some consider good OOP is too much for me
2021-05-26 13:11:56 +0200 <maerwald> that's also why I stay away from network programming
2021-05-26 13:11:57 +0200smr(~smn@91-114-147-117.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
2021-05-26 13:12:46 +0200lbseale_(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-05-26 13:13:35 +0200 <maerwald> being exhaustive about potential problems in a network setting isn't particularly easy
2021-05-26 13:13:44 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:bfb:3986:3177:a92b)
2021-05-26 13:13:46 +0200liszt(sid336875@id-336875.charlton.irccloud.com)
2021-05-26 13:14:07 +0200lisztGuest819
2021-05-26 13:14:30 +0200Guest77(~textual@bras-base-vldvpq5901w-grc-07-184-144-245-69.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-05-26 13:14:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 13:16:09 +0200 <maerwald> so maybe there's an emotional component about how you perceive technical complexity
2021-05-26 13:16:22 +0200 <maerwald> fear of disconnection? ;)
2021-05-26 13:17:34 +0200 <xprlgjf> ksqsf: http://haskellembedded.github.io/ discusses tools such as Ivory for generating C code from haskell.
2021-05-26 13:17:52 +0200 <xprlgjf> sometimes discussed on #haskell-embedded
2021-05-26 13:18:30 +0200Guest821(~Guest821@85.206.163.148)
2021-05-26 13:18:49 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0)
2021-05-26 13:19:26 +0200NieDzejkob_NieDzejkob
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2021-05-26 13:19:51 +0200 <ksqsf> xprlgjf thanks for the pointers!
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2021-05-26 13:25:02 +0200pavonia(~user@user/siracusa)
2021-05-26 13:25:34 +0200 <starlord> I need an ordered and non empty set type, is there such a data structure available already?
2021-05-26 13:26:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 13:26:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 13:27:16 +0200 <pavonia> Is freenode/#haskell officially dead now?
2021-05-26 13:28:10 +0200mebassett(~Srain@88.97.97.244)
2021-05-26 13:28:14 +0200 <Vq> It was brought out back and shot. You could join ##Haskell on freenode I guess.
2021-05-26 13:28:23 +0200 <maerwald> not sure how that would ever be official
2021-05-26 13:28:35 +0200 <Vq> That is if you really wanted to stay on that network.
2021-05-26 13:29:17 +0200 <Vq> I imagine that you get rerouted to that channel if you try to join now.
2021-05-26 13:29:42 +0200 <__monty__> maerwald: Freenode ops took over channels and set up redirects to ##topical.
2021-05-26 13:29:50 +0200 <pavonia> I'm asking because several channels redirect to their ##-counterparts now, which wasn't the case yesterday
2021-05-26 13:30:20 +0200 <__monty__> It's pretty much all the channels that had "libera.chat" in their topic. Even if it was to say "We're not on libera.chat yet."
2021-05-26 13:30:31 +0200 <maerwald> they still have ops? interesting
2021-05-26 13:31:43 +0200eightball(~jbrechtel@162-226-201-119.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net)
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2021-05-26 13:32:44 +0200Francimanrasenshuriken
2021-05-26 13:32:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 13:32:50 +0200rasenshurikenFranciman
2021-05-26 13:34:44 +0200mebassettmeb
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2021-05-26 13:38:12 +0200 <kritzefitz> maerwald, s/still/again/ as I understand it.
2021-05-26 13:38:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-05-26 14:12:19 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98)
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2021-05-26 14:13:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100)
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2021-05-26 14:15:15 +0200 <xerox> why is HLS a 380MB download and GHC 180MB
2021-05-26 14:15:55 +0200rbutler(uid5425@id-5425.highgate.irccloud.com)
2021-05-26 14:16:06 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.100) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 14:16:12 +0200 <merijn> Better compression on GHC? :p
2021-05-26 14:16:31 +0200 <_________> better optimization of GHC? ;)
2021-05-26 14:17:11 +0200 <maerwald> my program on windows only outputs to stdout and with exit status 0 if I run it via `strace`...
2021-05-26 14:17:28 +0200aib(~aib@dslb-178-008-083-018.178.008.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-05-26 14:17:39 +0200vire(~vire@136.185.204.212) ()
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2021-05-26 14:19:05 +0200poljar1(~poljar@93-139-109-71.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-05-26 14:19:20 +0200 <mc47> Hello, I was wondering if there's a function for a function with this signature: `(a -> b -> (c, b)) -> [a] -> b -> [c]`
2021-05-26 14:19:23 +0200 <wz1000> xerox: because HLS includes all of GHC and much more
2021-05-26 14:19:47 +0200 <xerox> that's a lot more!
2021-05-26 14:20:00 +0200 <mc47> it's kinda like map, but also takes has an accumulator? I guess it's clear what it's supposed to do from the signature
2021-05-26 14:20:14 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 14:20:20 +0200 <mc47> used it a couple of times so I was wondering if it's common enough to deserve a name
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2021-05-26 14:20:36 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-26 14:21:02 +0200 <xerox> :t mapAccumL
2021-05-26 14:21:03 +0200 <lambdabot> Traversable t => (a -> b -> (a, c)) -> a -> t b -> (a, t c)
2021-05-26 14:22:12 +0200Kaivo(~Kaivo@user/kaivo)
2021-05-26 14:23:53 +0200 <xerox> they got some bits flipped from yours but it's that
2021-05-26 14:24:53 +0200 <mc47> that's cool, thanks xerox
2021-05-26 14:25:12 +0200 <xerox> yw!
2021-05-26 14:25:17 +0200Brumaire(~quassel@81-64-14-121.rev.numericable.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-26 14:32:17 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@user/raito-bezarius/x-8759638)
2021-05-26 14:35:38 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 14:39:00 +0200sayola(~vekto@dslb-088-078-152-174.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-05-26 14:39:59 +0200lbseale__lbseale
2021-05-26 14:40:18 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~textual@2403:6200:8876:ee80:d1f8:2f2f:4629:dfc9)
2021-05-26 14:41:59 +0200 <lbseale> is there a way to know the type signature of variables in functions without HLS? Like does GHCI have a feature to do this?
2021-05-26 14:43:15 +0200 <lbseale> I say "variables", I mean anything inside a function definition
2021-05-26 14:43:18 +0200 <hpc> :t let foo = _ 5 in foo
2021-05-26 14:43:21 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-05-26 14:43:21 +0200 <lambdabot> • Found hole: _ :: Integer -> t1
2021-05-26 14:43:21 +0200 <lambdabot> Where: ‘t1’ is a rigid type variable bound by
2021-05-26 14:43:22 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:745b:c700:b4c:aac3) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 14:43:48 +0200 <arahael> What's "HLS"?
2021-05-26 14:43:59 +0200 <hpc> you can use holes
2021-05-26 14:44:03 +0200 <hpc> arahael: haskell language server
2021-05-26 14:44:03 +0200 <Scraeling> Language server probably
2021-05-26 14:44:05 +0200 <lbseale> Haskell Language Server
2021-05-26 14:44:07 +0200da39a3ee5e6b4b0denc
2021-05-26 14:44:07 +0200 <arahael> Ah, nice.
2021-05-26 14:44:14 +0200encenchoi
2021-05-26 14:44:24 +0200 <arahael> In other languages, I just substitute "Int" as my hole, and watch for the compiler to complain of a type mismatch.
2021-05-26 14:44:44 +0200 <arahael> lbseale: I often setup ghcid. It's awesome.
2021-05-26 14:45:11 +0200 <lbseale> hpc: so you just replace something with a _ and then look at the error?
2021-05-26 14:45:42 +0200bfrk(~Thunderbi@200116b8453bc10024c96ca01cd76d14.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-26 14:46:08 +0200 <hpc> yep
2021-05-26 14:46:29 +0200 <arahael> lbseale: It gives plenty of helpful suggestions as well, sometimes even suggesting what it should be.
2021-05-26 14:46:41 +0200 <hpc> it's great for when you're writing fresh code
2021-05-26 14:46:46 +0200 <lbseale> I ask because I'm writing Haskell at work, and I'm not sure the sysadmin would let me install HLS
2021-05-26 14:46:55 +0200 <boxscape> lbseale it tells you also which variables are in scope and the type of them
2021-05-26 14:47:23 +0200 <lbseale> arahael: boxscape thanks, I'll look into this
2021-05-26 14:47:44 +0200 <boxscape> (and hpc :P)
2021-05-26 14:48:04 +0200 <lbseale> yes thanks to hpc
2021-05-26 14:48:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.21)
2021-05-26 14:48:52 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-3-253.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-05-26 14:48:54 +0200zot(sid449795@id-449795.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 14:49:04 +0200 <zebrag> __monty__: hi
2021-05-26 14:49:17 +0200joel135(sid136450@id-136450.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-05-26 14:50:06 +0200jumi99(~jumi99@2a02:a210:2205:5380:bc92:a49a:5132:5952)
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2021-05-26 14:50:49 +0200 <zebrag> Is there already a matrix bridge?
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2021-05-26 14:51:48 +0200 <boxscape> zebrag no, but https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nl74hc/freenode_has_unilaterally_taken_over_haskell/gzhf…
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2021-05-26 14:54:53 +0200 <yushyin> zebrag: afaik they are working on it. join #matrix if you want news updates
2021-05-26 14:55:06 +0200 <zebrag> What about making a bridge with a bot to the existing https://app.element.io/#/room/#haskell:matrix.org
2021-05-26 14:55:07 +0200hugo(znc@verdigris.lysator.liu.se)
2021-05-26 14:55:15 +0200 <zebrag> So as to merge the two channels?
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2021-05-26 14:55:22 +0200 <zebrag> maybe it's just not possible
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2021-05-26 15:07:56 +0200 <zebrag> IMO, it's not convenient to have many entry points: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5ZdPD5WAAMvvGS.jpg
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2021-05-26 15:09:32 +0200 <zebrag> It is tidy, but not friendly (for the sake of the rhyme)
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2021-05-26 15:47:32 +0200 <hololeap> lexi-lambda.github.io is some of the best tutorials I've ever seen...
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2021-05-26 16:27:57 +0200 <hololeap> what's the best monad for failures, but it keeps going to collect all of them? would that just be Writer?
2021-05-26 16:28:22 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 16:28:50 +0200slowButPresent(~slowButPr@user/slowbutpresent)
2021-05-26 16:29:20 +0200 <maerwald> hololeap: Excepts
2021-05-26 16:29:36 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskus-utils-variant-3.0/docs/Haskus-Utils-Variant-Excepts.html
2021-05-26 16:29:44 +0200 <merijn> hololeap: Can't be a monad
2021-05-26 16:29:54 +0200 <merijn> hololeap: Best you can do is Applicative (aka Validation)
2021-05-26 16:30:06 +0200 <merijn> Or maybe These
2021-05-26 16:30:56 +0200qoelet(~kumo@139.180.144.166)
2021-05-26 16:30:57 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-26 16:31:10 +0200tboerstad(~tboerstad@91.90.104.201)
2021-05-26 16:31:16 +0200 <hololeap> maerwald: that looks intimidating but also really cool
2021-05-26 16:31:35 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-71-226-194-211.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 16:31:55 +0200 <maerwald> hololeap: https://docs.haskus.org/variant/excepts.html
2021-05-26 16:32:05 +0200 <maerwald> illustration of use
2021-05-26 16:32:06 +0200ksrootKC1NCN
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2021-05-26 16:32:42 +0200 <maerwald> however, two downsides are: 1. you break type inference and need a lot of type applications and 2. you need to basically liftE everything
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2021-05-26 16:34:19 +0200 <maerwald> but it allows rethrowing etc, like https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/lib/GHCup/Errors.hs#L244
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2021-05-26 16:34:39 +0200 <maerwald> so you can have an error stack, sorta
2021-05-26 16:34:51 +0200 <maerwald> but that's all done manually
2021-05-26 16:34:59 +0200 <maerwald> so ergonomics is debatable
2021-05-26 16:35:40 +0200brightside(~anon10100@106.192.141.180)
2021-05-26 16:36:28 +0200 <hololeap> I was thinking of: WriterT [SomeException] m a -> ExceptT [SomeException] m a
2021-05-26 16:36:35 +0200 <hololeap> which isn't really a monad, but...
2021-05-26 16:36:58 +0200 <maerwald> type level list of exceptions is cooler
2021-05-26 16:37:45 +0200 <maerwald> otherwise you really have no information about what stuff needs to be catched at a given point in the callstack
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2021-05-26 16:39:15 +0200Morrow(~Morrow@147.161.12.220) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 16:39:25 +0200 <maerwald> as in: sum types for errors are wrong!
2021-05-26 16:39:28 +0200learner-monad(~ehanneken@cpe-174-105-47-100.columbus.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 16:39:36 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
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2021-05-26 16:41:31 +0200 <hololeap> well, in this case I want: [IsValid a] -> Either WhatWasntValid [a]
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2021-05-26 16:49:18 +0200 <merijn> hololeap: That's Validation
2021-05-26 16:49:37 +0200mcglk(~mcglk@131.191.49.120)
2021-05-26 16:49:47 +0200 <hololeap> as opposed to what?
2021-05-26 16:49:57 +0200 <merijn> hololeap: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/either-5.0.1.1/docs/Data-Either-Validation.html
2021-05-26 16:50:44 +0200 <hololeap> merijn: yeah, that looks like what I want
2021-05-26 16:51:03 +0200 <merijn> As I said before, it cannot be a Monad though, only Applicative
2021-05-26 16:51:12 +0200 <merijn> but that's good enough for lots of things
2021-05-26 16:51:13 +0200a1paca(~a1paca@user/a1paca) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 16:51:19 +0200 <hololeap> That's fine
2021-05-26 16:51:22 +0200 <opqdonut> huh, interesting
2021-05-26 16:51:37 +0200 <opqdonut> I only knew of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/validation
2021-05-26 16:51:41 +0200 <opqdonut> I wonder which came first?
2021-05-26 16:51:59 +0200 <merijn> Almost certainly the one by edwardk? ;)
2021-05-26 16:52:10 +0200imc6ristian(~c6ristian@2a04:6ec0:20f:fdb0:22bd:de4c:2316:161f)
2021-05-26 16:52:17 +0200 <opqdonut> looks like the validation one has copyrights from 2010, ekmett from 2014
2021-05-26 16:52:36 +0200 <merijn> First upload of first version was 2014, though
2021-05-26 16:52:41 +0200imc6ristian(~c6ristian@2a04:6ec0:20f:fdb0:22bd:de4c:2316:161f) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 16:52:41 +0200 <merijn> (for validation)
2021-05-26 16:53:00 +0200learner-monad(~ehanneken@cpe-174-105-47-100.columbus.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 16:53:04 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:9897:d4e5:9583:e06d)
2021-05-26 16:53:28 +0200 <opqdonut> mmh
2021-05-26 16:53:36 +0200KC1NCNksroot
2021-05-26 16:53:42 +0200 <talismanick> Does anyone still use hasky-cabal?
2021-05-26 16:53:43 +0200 <opqdonut> so maybe a case of an internal library being opensourced
2021-05-26 16:53:52 +0200 <talismanick> Archived in 2018, but I don't see a modern alternative
2021-05-26 16:54:17 +0200statusbot(~statusbot@ec2-34-198-122-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
2021-05-26 16:54:25 +0200 <talismanick> (if I missed something obvious, please do tell)
2021-05-26 16:55:14 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 16:55:17 +0200 <opqdonut> merijn: funny story here actually, I came up with the concept of the validation applicative on my own when trying to invent a nice example for teaching Applicatives
2021-05-26 16:55:19 +0200 <edwardk> fwiw- i think i adopted the validation type from the data61 codebase not the other way around
2021-05-26 16:55:33 +0200 <opqdonut> merijn: then I googled "haskell validation" and found the library :)
2021-05-26 16:58:10 +0200 <opqdonut> the subtle difference seems to be that Data.Either.Validation has a Monoid constraint on the errors, and Data.Validation only has Semigroup
2021-05-26 16:58:17 +0200radw(~radw@user/radw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 16:58:22 +0200 <opqdonut> this means Data.Either.Validation is an Alternative, but Data.Validation is merely an Alt
2021-05-26 16:58:47 +0200 <opqdonut> I kinda like not having support for the "empty error": you always need to specify what went wrong
2021-05-26 16:58:47 +0200 <hololeap> hm, I was thinking something like NonEmpty would be a good choice for `e`
2021-05-26 16:58:54 +0200 <opqdonut> hololeap: indeed
2021-05-26 16:59:22 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-26 17:00:15 +0200renormalist(~ss5@renormalist.net)
2021-05-26 17:00:25 +0200radw(~radw@user/radw)
2021-05-26 17:00:35 +0200 <hololeap> although, I'm not really seeing many Monoid constraints in Data.Either.Validation
2021-05-26 17:01:20 +0200haskman(~haskman@171.61.174.98)
2021-05-26 17:01:26 +0200zegalch96(~zegalch@178.128.75.133)
2021-05-26 17:01:27 +0200 <opqdonut> yeah you're right the docs say "Validation is Either with a Left that is a Monoid"
2021-05-26 17:01:38 +0200 <opqdonut> but the instances mostly only require Semigroup, except for the Alternative
2021-05-26 17:02:03 +0200brightside(~anon10100@106.192.141.180) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 17:04:07 +0200 <bbhoss> I'm using HLS with the VSCode extension. I have a project that compiles just fine but for some reason HLS thinks that one of the imported modules doesn't export functions that I know are exported, and that the compiler sees just fine. Any idea on how to debug/reset this?
2021-05-26 17:04:51 +0200zzing(~zzing@d24-57-14-115.home.cgocable.net)
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2021-05-26 17:07:19 +0200 <hololeap> bbhoss: I ran into that working on a project that is both a lib and an executable. I ended up making symlinks in the executable src dir so that HLS would see them
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2021-05-26 17:52:19 +0200 <edwardk> In a fit of boredom and as a joke like 8 people will bother to get and those that do won't find funny, I've registered cofreenode.net and pointed irc.cofreenode.net at chat.freenode.net.
2021-05-26 17:52:58 +0200zgrep(~zgrep@user/zgrep)
2021-05-26 17:53:04 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.207.211)
2021-05-26 17:53:05 +0200 <monochrom> Oh, you. :)
2021-05-26 17:53:36 +0200 <opqdonut> I think it's a bit more than 8 tho
2021-05-26 17:53:53 +0200 <monochrom> I bothered to ask who did it :)
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2021-05-26 18:06:12 +0200 <nsilv> rofl
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2021-05-26 18:09:54 +0200Guest56(~Guest56@103.red-83-32-250.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) ()
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2021-05-26 18:10:18 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 18:10:52 +0200 <Schrostfutz> I'm trying to wrap my head around a problem with parsing: Say I have three parsers that return distinct types and I know I can use all of them in succession, just not in which order, how could I implement that? I struggle to come up with a proper solution. My current thought process is to implement an n-ary Either Parser, use partition on that and ensure that the resulting lists are each singletons. But my intuition tells me that's
2021-05-26 18:10:52 +0200 <Schrostfutz> quite elaborate for the goal.
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2021-05-26 18:13:56 +0200 <hololeap> Schrostfutz: you would have to create a sum type that enumerates each of them and then hold some kind of state so that you can check that they don't repeat during parsing. I think that's how you would have to do it
2021-05-26 18:13:57 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd)
2021-05-26 18:14:37 +0200barrucadu(~barrucadu@carcosa.barrucadu.co.uk)
2021-05-26 18:14:41 +0200 <hololeap> assuming you don't want repeats of the three types. If you _do_ allow that it will be much simpler
2021-05-26 18:14:54 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 18:15:07 +0200 <davean> Schrostfutz: I mean try a list of parsers, try the next list of parsers, etc? Just because you don't know what order you'll parse them in doesn't mean you have to store them out of order
2021-05-26 18:15:16 +0200 <davean> you can fill in a datastructure with a fixed order
2021-05-26 18:15:17 +0200 <hololeap> Although, it would make sense to have each type in a specified order
2021-05-26 18:15:48 +0200 <davean> he said "singletons" so I think he means without replacement
2021-05-26 18:16:30 +0200 <Schrostfutz> hololeap: No, all of them should be present exactly once. The problem is, that I'm parsing a protocol that doesn't specify the order, even though in practice it will always be the same...
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2021-05-26 18:16:53 +0200 <davean> but if you start with a function \_ _ _ _ -> result, you can fill in the holes, and wrap at each step with a function that takes reuse of the filled in entries to errors or something
2021-05-26 18:17:08 +0200 <davean> that is if each parameter is maybe
2021-05-26 18:17:14 +0200 <davean> Like theres a lot of ways to do this
2021-05-26 18:17:22 +0200 <hololeap> in that case you probably want to create a sum type with an Ord instance, then pass along a Set as your state so that you can keep track of them.
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2021-05-26 18:19:20 +0200 <Schrostfutz> To avoid the x-y problem: I'm parsing a protocol that's a list of commands which each have a list of attributes. I implemented a generic version of this (i.e. having a Command & Attribute product type), now I want to extend is to interpret the individual commands (i.e. FooCommand, BarCommand as sum type) because the set of attributes for each command is well-defined.
2021-05-26 18:19:38 +0200gambpang(~ian@207.181.230.156)
2021-05-26 18:19:51 +0200 <hololeap> are you using any particular library to parse it
2021-05-26 18:19:58 +0200nsilv(~nsilv@host-82-50-119-12.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:20:14 +0200 <davean> Well, why aren't you just processing a list of commands like they came in then?
2021-05-26 18:20:30 +0200 <Schrostfutz> davean: I like the idea of successively filling in the holes, but this way I'd have to specify each set individually, right?
2021-05-26 18:20:37 +0200 <Schrostfutz> hololeap: Yes, attoparsec
2021-05-26 18:20:45 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net)
2021-05-26 18:20:50 +0200sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki)
2021-05-26 18:21:20 +0200 <Schrostfutz> davean: My goal is to interpret the commands, so I'd like to represent their semantic in my datastructure.
2021-05-26 18:21:29 +0200 <hololeap> If I'm not mistaken, attoparsec isn't monadic and hence cannot have state passed, so you'll have to parse it as a list and then validate it afterwards, I think
2021-05-26 18:21:52 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 18:22:12 +0200 <davean> uh, what? A) yes it is, B) what? How can you not pass state without a monad? Just pass a continuation like I was talking about above.
2021-05-26 18:22:32 +0200econo(uid147250@user/econo)
2021-05-26 18:23:05 +0200 <hololeap> my understanding was that for a parser to change its behavior based on a previous "piece", it had to be monadic
2021-05-26 18:23:33 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.53)
2021-05-26 18:23:35 +0200 <davean> Of course not, but also attoparsec is
2021-05-26 18:23:38 +0200 <hololeap> Parser a -> (a -> Parser b) -> Parser b
2021-05-26 18:23:48 +0200 <davean> I mean theres a monadic concept one might related here
2021-05-26 18:23:55 +0200 <davean> but it can break the laws and still do all that
2021-05-26 18:24:17 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-05-26 18:24:22 +0200 <davean> and it defiantely doesn't have to be Haskell Monad
2021-05-26 18:25:28 +0200waleee(~waleee@2001:9b0:216:8200:d457:9189:7843:1dbd) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:25:29 +0200deadmeme(~deadmeme@61.247.51.245)
2021-05-26 18:26:16 +0200 <hololeap> right, attoparsec just doesn't have a monad _transformer_
2021-05-26 18:26:50 +0200alberto(~user@2001:b07:a96:75b9:be3e:73f7:1e58:8e12)
2021-05-26 18:26:57 +0200 <hololeap> but I'm also not seeing anything about carrying custom state in the docs
2021-05-26 18:27:01 +0200 <davean> a monad transformer is entirely different than Monad, and attoparsec is a Monad, but even if it wasn't that wouldn't be really relivent.
2021-05-26 18:27:15 +0200alberto(~user@2001:b07:a96:75b9:be3e:73f7:1e58:8e12) ()
2021-05-26 18:27:18 +0200 <hololeap> it is very relevant
2021-05-26 18:27:23 +0200 <davean> Haskell is a functional language
2021-05-26 18:27:46 +0200pretty_dumm_guy(~trottel@185.244.212.62)
2021-05-26 18:27:48 +0200 <hololeap> the sky is blue?
2021-05-26 18:28:10 +0200 <zzz> davean: depending on your definition of functional ;)
2021-05-26 18:28:18 +0200 <davean> I mean I just gave you the solution directly
2021-05-26 18:28:28 +0200 <davean> use a function as a first class object
2021-05-26 18:28:44 +0200 <davean> Ypi
2021-05-26 18:28:47 +0200 <davean> You're done
2021-05-26 18:28:51 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:ca5b:76ff:fe29:f233) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:28:58 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@ip-213-49-189-31.dsl.scarlet.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:29:15 +0200 <davean> Most of attoparsec's haddocks demonstrate this
2021-05-26 18:29:35 +0200 <davean> I was talking about it to begin with
2021-05-26 18:29:38 +0200 <davean> just pass along operations
2021-05-26 18:29:51 +0200 <davean> But, also, if you want to use the tools you're thinking of, thats fine
2021-05-26 18:29:54 +0200 <davean> attoparsec is a monad
2021-05-26 18:30:00 +0200 <hololeap> right, you have to parse, then validate. with something like megaparsec, you could pass along a custom state and fail if you parsed the same type twice
2021-05-26 18:30:01 +0200 <davean> so you use the state transformer *over* that
2021-05-26 18:30:04 +0200 <davean> not the other way around
2021-05-26 18:30:13 +0200 <davean> semanticly it *can't* be the other way around
2021-05-26 18:30:20 +0200 <davean> no
2021-05-26 18:30:25 +0200brightside(~brightsid@106.192.139.228)
2021-05-26 18:30:27 +0200 <davean> You didn't listen
2021-05-26 18:30:31 +0200 <davean> I give up
2021-05-26 18:30:42 +0200 <davean> I specificly directly contradicted that
2021-05-26 18:30:52 +0200 <hololeap> I'm re-reading
2021-05-26 18:31:33 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 18:32:39 +0200andreabedini(~andreabed@8s8kj6nsk928qlw9thck.ip6.superloop.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 18:34:04 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 18:34:11 +0200brightside(~brightsid@106.192.139.228) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 18:35:34 +0200learner-monad(~ehanneken@cpe-174-105-47-100.columbus.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:35:42 +0200azeem(~azeem@212.189.140.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:36:10 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:36:22 +0200 <hololeap> ok, I think I get it now. error on my part
2021-05-26 18:36:33 +0200sedeki(~textual@user/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 18:37:34 +0200 <hololeap> my first mistake was thinking that Parser from attoparsec was purely Applicative
2021-05-26 18:38:10 +0200albertodvp(~user@2001:b07:a96:75b9:be3e:73f7:1e58:8e12)
2021-05-26 18:38:33 +0200defunctor(~textual@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-26 18:39:31 +0200sondre(~sondrelun@eduroam-193-157-179-99.wlan.uio.no)
2021-05-26 18:40:02 +0200defunctor(~user@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7)
2021-05-26 18:40:46 +0200prite(~pritam@49.207.220.8) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-26 18:40:46 +0200 <davean> Yah, Applicative would be a bit of a problem if that was the ONLY one you had, Applicative with a few things wouldn't though, even if that fell short of Monad (Selective for example)
2021-05-26 18:41:11 +0200prite(~pritam@49.207.220.8)
2021-05-26 18:41:50 +0200 <hololeap> I don't see how you could do this without a Monad, though, since it has to catalog what types it has seen so far
2021-05-26 18:42:08 +0200atwm(~andrew@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:42:09 +0200 <davean> well, theres a paper on Selective.
2021-05-26 18:42:21 +0200tput(~tim@S0106a84e3fe54613.ed.shawcable.net)
2021-05-26 18:42:35 +0200 <davean> Though in an entirely different direction from Selective - Monad has laws, those laws are not what matter for this oepration
2021-05-26 18:42:42 +0200 <davean> pure functions, treated first class, can do this
2021-05-26 18:42:49 +0200 <davean> you just don't get laws along with that
2021-05-26 18:43:12 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 18:43:36 +0200 <hololeap> so you're saying something more powerful than an Applicative but less powerful than a Monad can do the job?
2021-05-26 18:44:01 +0200 <hololeap> I just wasn't aware of anything like that
2021-05-26 18:44:02 +0200 <davean> Yes
2021-05-26 18:44:26 +0200 <hololeap> but I'll look into Selective
2021-05-26 18:44:58 +0200mojobask(~user@95.155.34.8)
2021-05-26 18:46:32 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-05-26 18:46:57 +0200 <davean> Theres also a world of difference between Haskell Monad and Math Monad
2021-05-26 18:47:32 +0200 <davean> While one might argue the Math Monadness of some continuation passing implimentation, it certainly wouldn't be Haskell Monad.
2021-05-26 18:48:26 +0200prite(~pritam@49.207.220.8) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-26 18:48:50 +0200prite(~pritam@49.207.220.8)
2021-05-26 18:50:33 +0200fendor(~fendor@91.141.0.18.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-05-26 18:50:47 +0200eeva(~Samae@marvid.fr)
2021-05-26 18:52:32 +0200 <hololeap> I think of a Haskell Monad as a Kleisli arrow, since the Math monad just states that the two endofunctors _exist_ but doesn't say anything about a specific direction
2021-05-26 18:55:03 +0200testes(~testes@165.73.223.242)
2021-05-26 18:55:25 +0200Schrostfutz(~Schrostfu@p2e585eba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:55:34 +0200Baloo_(~Baloo_@185.65.135.181) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 18:55:54 +0200 <testes> it works !
2021-05-26 18:55:58 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.53) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:55:58 +0200xwx(~george@user/george) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 18:56:17 +0200 <unyu> Isn't the most important difference that Haskellers only work with Hask, which is morally a dumbed down Set? Whereas mathematicians work with functors between arbitrary categories.
2021-05-26 18:56:30 +0200076AAASD3(~hounded@2603-7000-2145-c400-0000-0000-0000-0004.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-26 18:56:54 +0200 <davean> anyway, back to the persons origional question, the anwer I was giving is that one can pass a function that carries the remaining validation, peels it off as it goes, and constructs the next parser based on what has been seen, and continues
2021-05-26 18:56:56 +0200dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.85)
2021-05-26 18:57:43 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17)
2021-05-26 18:57:55 +0200xwx(~george@user/george)
2021-05-26 18:58:01 +0200w-spc-gir(~user@212.102.44.168)
2021-05-26 18:58:11 +0200 <hololeap> unyu: a monad specifically talks about endofunctors, which are functors from category C to category C, so it doesn't matter if you just stay inside Hask
2021-05-26 18:59:00 +0200nuno(~e4rfwedfs@bl17-183-208.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 18:59:26 +0200 <unyu> hololeap: It matters a lot, because it means that you cannot get useful intuition from categories that do not like Hask at all.
2021-05-26 18:59:35 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2021-05-26 18:59:42 +0200testes(~testes@165.73.223.242) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 18:59:52 +0200 <unyu> Also, a monad is a *single* endofunctor plus two natural transformations, such that three diagrams commute. (Sometimes, two of the diagrams are combined into one.)
2021-05-26 19:00:08 +0200 <unyu> The one involving two functors (not necessarily endofunctors) are adjunctions.
2021-05-26 19:00:54 +0200 <hololeap> right
2021-05-26 19:01:07 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.70)
2021-05-26 19:01:12 +0200 <hololeap> two natural transformations involving an endofunctor
2021-05-26 19:01:17 +0200weemadarthur(weemadarth@otaku.sdf.org)
2021-05-26 19:02:17 +0200moet(~moet@172.58.35.192)
2021-05-26 19:02:35 +0200 <davean> and the moral of this story is we must now shead a tear for Schrostfutz who didn't get their answer
2021-05-26 19:02:42 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.121.17) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:03:18 +0200 <hololeap> they should have known that asking a simple question in #haskell would devolve into an argument about theory ;)
2021-05-26 19:03:39 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@106.214.73.78)
2021-05-26 19:03:56 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@89.46.62.61)
2021-05-26 19:03:57 +0200 <davean> look, theres enough blame to go around, we shouldn't be proud of what happened!
2021-05-26 19:04:08 +0200 <davean> 4/5ths of this is on us
2021-05-26 19:04:25 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@106.214.73.78) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 19:05:40 +0200defunctor(~user@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 19:06:22 +0200spaceshipnow(~spaceship@71-34-79-113.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-05-26 19:06:31 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-05-26 19:06:35 +0200Ram-Z(Ram-Z@2a01:7e01::f03c:91ff:fe57:d2df)
2021-05-26 19:06:37 +0200boxscape(~boxscape@user/boxscape)
2021-05-26 19:06:38 +0200tristanC(~tristanC@user/tristanc) (Quit: leaving)
2021-05-26 19:06:49 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2021-05-26 19:06:54 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@86.106.121.70) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:06:59 +0200lbseale_(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-26 19:07:12 +0200 <gonz_> You joke, but it kind of sucks.
2021-05-26 19:09:25 +0200 <gonz_> Lots of people think that if they can't follow this kind of peripherally related nonsense discussion they probably shouldn't use Haskell.
2021-05-26 19:09:56 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 19:10:02 +0200lbseale(~lbseale@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:10:44 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-166-29.eurotel.cz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 19:10:50 +0200vclerc(~vclerc@modemcable030.18-176-173.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-05-26 19:10:59 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-166-29.eurotel.cz)
2021-05-26 19:11:57 +0200MorrowM(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.80)
2021-05-26 19:12:10 +0200earldouglas(~james@user/earldouglas)
2021-05-26 19:12:22 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151)
2021-05-26 19:13:31 +0200nan`(~nan`@rrcs-70-60-83-42.central.biz.rr.com)
2021-05-26 19:14:15 +0200earldouglas(~james@user/earldouglas) ()
2021-05-26 19:14:29 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259de574882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-26 19:15:18 +0200Morrow(~MorrowM_@147.161.9.218) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:15:20 +0200nan`_(~nan`@68.235.43.133)
2021-05-26 19:16:00 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2021-05-26 19:16:16 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-26 19:16:35 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 19:16:51 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-26 19:16:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:17:29 +0200 <maerwald> Really?
2021-05-26 19:17:47 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-05-26 19:17:51 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 19:17:59 +0200 <davean> maerwald: Well you understand it, right? You wouldn't just be pretending to be one of us!
2021-05-26 19:18:02 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2021-05-26 19:18:15 +0200nan`(~nan`@rrcs-70-60-83-42.central.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:18:36 +0200nan`(~nan`@static-198-54-128-93.cust.tzulo.com)
2021-05-26 19:18:43 +0200 <maerwald> oh well... er... yeah right... endofunctors! of course!
2021-05-26 19:18:47 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:19:14 +0200 <monochrom> The question was unclear at the beginning. But later it became clear, and a simple "most parser libraries have a permute function for this" answer would have done nicely.
2021-05-26 19:19:18 +0200samhh(~samhh@90.252.103.244) (Quit: samhh)
2021-05-26 19:19:23 +0200funsafe(~funsafe@2601:1c1:4200:938f:389d:16a4:ae2d:65aa)
2021-05-26 19:19:32 +0200ikex1(~ash@user/ikex)
2021-05-26 19:19:52 +0200 <monochrom> This is why I am skeptic about "enthusiam".
2021-05-26 19:20:01 +0200xwx(~george@user/george) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-05-26 19:20:03 +0200nan`_(~nan`@68.235.43.133) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:20:09 +0200dminuoso(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de)
2021-05-26 19:20:09 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-166-29.eurotel.cz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 19:20:12 +0200 <davean> monochrom: right mate, glad you are a REAL haskeller. Horrors when we find someone isn't . . .
2021-05-26 19:20:20 +0200ikex(~ash@user/ikex) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by ikex1)))
2021-05-26 19:20:21 +0200 <monochrom> When people are enthusiastic about what they have know, they lose track of what other people really need to know.
2021-05-26 19:20:21 +0200satai(~satai@ip-37-188-166-29.eurotel.cz)
2021-05-26 19:20:25 +0200ikex1ikex
2021-05-26 19:20:39 +0200doc2(~doc@14-201-241-128.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:20:40 +0200 <davean> yah no, it went seriously off track
2021-05-26 19:21:14 +0200 <dminuoso> So.. since Andrew Lee really started burning bridges.. if #haskell @freenode alive at all anymore?
2021-05-26 19:21:44 +0200 <davean> uh, sorta, but I parted an hour before it all went down
2021-05-26 19:21:49 +0200 <boxscape> it gets redirected to ##haskell now
2021-05-26 19:21:50 +0200 <davean> harmless recovered the channel
2021-05-26 19:21:54 +0200 <davean> and is trying
2021-05-26 19:21:59 +0200 <davean> poor poor harmless
2021-05-26 19:22:00 +0200imdoor(~imdoor@balticom-142-78-50.balticom.lv)
2021-05-26 19:22:07 +0200 <dminuoso> harmless is kicking again?
2021-05-26 19:23:27 +0200 <davean> https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/nl74hc/freenode_has_unilaterally_taken_over_haskell/gzhc… <-- I mean yah, he's putting the work in
2021-05-26 19:23:53 +0200 <davean> I value what he does, but I think ATM he's trying to bail the ocean out to keep the ocean afloat.
2021-05-26 19:24:29 +0200eggplantade(~Eggplanta@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:b043:8b77:c7da:42a0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 19:24:57 +0200learner-monad(~ehanneken@cpe-174-105-47-100.columbus.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 19:25:05 +0200zmt00(~zmt00@2601:648:8800:3b4:4f4:f5e2:ac20:3c3e)
2021-05-26 19:25:22 +0200nan`(~nan`@static-198-54-128-93.cust.tzulo.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:25:22 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:26:36 +0200 <sm> g'day all
2021-05-26 19:26:40 +0200Kevin578_(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 19:26:44 +0200 <maerwald> sm: namaste
2021-05-26 19:26:58 +0200 <sm> "harmless" ?
2021-05-26 19:26:59 +0200 <davean> sm: Do you bear tidings from the lands of lee?
2021-05-26 19:27:03 +0200Kevin578__(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 19:27:43 +0200 <sm> davean: I did last night. I had just sent evacuation warnings two minutes before the crackdown
2021-05-26 19:27:44 +0200 <monochrom> I learned "namaste" from the game Sid Meier's Starships.
2021-05-26 19:27:51 +0200 <sm> namaste maerwald
2021-05-26 19:27:54 +0200Kevin578(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:28:02 +0200 <sm> namaste everyone
2021-05-26 19:28:14 +0200 <sm> I am happy to be here in your peaceful kingdom
2021-05-26 19:28:21 +0200 <davean> sm: ah, you're not still hanging on? I figured you'd be the last off.
2021-05-26 19:28:35 +0200BalinKingOfMoria(~BalinKing@ip24-56-15-98.ph.ph.cox.net)
2021-05-26 19:28:58 +0200starlord(~starlord@c83-252-164-58.bredband.tele2.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:29:09 +0200 <maerwald> sm: how was your yoga class? ;p
2021-05-26 19:29:16 +0200 <sm> davean: no, once my channels were done I was out of there. I did think about keeping the nick, but figured the slightly reduced risk of harassment and the greatly simplified life was worth it
2021-05-26 19:29:23 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 19:29:35 +0200 <sm> maerwald: haven't done it yet. Very bad, will get out on the grass shortly
2021-05-26 19:29:48 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 19:29:57 +0200Guest6(~Guest6@public-gprs358453.centertel.pl)
2021-05-26 19:30:17 +0200 <sm> how about you davean
2021-05-26 19:30:55 +0200BalinKingOfMoriaBalinKing
2021-05-26 19:31:20 +0200 <davean> I parted about an hour before the crackdown and am curious about whats going on over there but not enough to harase the only person I know putting the effort in for them or to reconnect
2021-05-26 19:31:22 +0200Kevin578_(~Kevin578@pool-98-110-163-110.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:32:05 +0200 <davean> but frankly, I ahve way too much important, stressful, shit to deal with this week to give an actual damn about IRC drama
2021-05-26 19:32:08 +0200 <sm> ah. You can also get a sense of it by listening in to #libera and #freenode.
2021-05-26 19:32:25 +0200fizbin_(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 19:32:37 +0200 <sm> yes good to move on for sure
2021-05-26 19:32:43 +0200 <davean> Thankfully we have people like harmless who have taken it upon themselves to bail that ocean long enough to get the people who aren't enjoying drowning out
2021-05-26 19:32:55 +0200 <davean> This time its not me though
2021-05-26 19:33:09 +0200 <sm> are you talking about ed ? what is this new alias ?
2021-05-26 19:33:10 +0200sciencentistguy(~jamie@138.199.29.15)
2021-05-26 19:33:16 +0200 <davean> Oh, no, its his ANCIENT one
2021-05-26 19:33:23 +0200 <davean> back from when I meet him doign game dev
2021-05-26 19:33:27 +0200 <sm> ahaa
2021-05-26 19:33:34 +0200 <boxscape> it's used here https://www.flipcode.com/harmless/
2021-05-26 19:33:43 +0200doc2(~doc@59-102-3-251.tpgi.com.au)
2021-05-26 19:33:45 +0200 <davean> Its just what I tihnk of him as and he hasn't asked me to try to use something different and I like it.
2021-05-26 19:33:53 +0200 <davean> uh, I guess thats an assholish thing of me to do
2021-05-26 19:33:56 +0200 <davean> welp
2021-05-26 19:34:02 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.151)
2021-05-26 19:34:06 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-05-26 19:34:20 +0200GIANTWORLDKEEPER(~pjetcetal@2.95.204.25)
2021-05-26 19:34:27 +0200 <davean> Sorry for the confusion
2021-05-26 19:34:35 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-26 19:34:40 +0200 <sm> cool nick
2021-05-26 19:34:59 +0200 <davean> Yah I like it better *and* its the cell I have in my brain for it
2021-05-26 19:35:21 +0200 <davean> seeing as he doesn't seem to have disowned it, and I'm pretty sure he'd tell me if he had a problem with it, I'm happy to keep using it, but its not great for communicating with others.
2021-05-26 19:35:30 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 19:35:36 +0200 <davean> OTOH, I don't put a ton of effort into filtering my thoughts on IRC
2021-05-26 19:35:38 +0200 <sm> just confusing for the rest of us :)
2021-05-26 19:35:50 +0200 <davean> So you get what I actually think as I think it typically
2021-05-26 19:36:17 +0200 <tapas> the archive is down :(
2021-05-26 19:36:22 +0200 <davean> I should probably put more effort in, but I'm REALLY not in the mood this week
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2021-05-26 19:58:54 +0200hamtidamti(~hmti@94.198.43.68)
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2021-05-26 20:02:07 +0200altern(~Sergii@altern.corbina.com.ua)
2021-05-26 20:02:17 +0200 <hololeap> bwaha... Crown Prince of Korea? what?
2021-05-26 20:02:51 +0200asthasr(~asthasr@162.210.29.120)
2021-05-26 20:03:16 +0200phunt(~user@2601:1c0:5200:68:83ab:8381:7144:3935) ()
2021-05-26 20:03:52 +0200MasterControl(~Master@238.140.4.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch)
2021-05-26 20:04:29 +0200 <maerwald> ALL of korea?
2021-05-26 20:04:36 +0200jao(~jao@cpc103048-sgyl39-2-0-cust502.18-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-26 20:05:06 +0200altern(~Sergii@altern.corbina.com.ua) (Client Quit)
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2021-05-26 20:05:19 +0200destillat(~Ivan@81.17.148.67)
2021-05-26 20:05:32 +0200a1tern(~Sergii@altern.corbina.com.ua)
2021-05-26 20:05:37 +0200 <prite> maerwald: Well, the title goes back to the long defunct Empire of Korea of the Joseon dynasty, so yeah, I guess.
2021-05-26 20:05:39 +0200oxide(~lambda@user/oxide)
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2021-05-26 20:06:44 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com)
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2021-05-26 20:09:48 +0200Kevin578__Kevin578
2021-05-26 20:09:48 +0200 <geekosaur> oh, there it is
2021-05-26 20:09:57 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 20:11:08 +0200 <maerwald> so is freenode accessible from the northern parts of the Empire?
2021-05-26 20:11:17 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 20:11:37 +0200aez(~aez@zoo-zarebski.zoo.ox.ac.uk)
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2021-05-26 20:12:37 +0200Guest31(~textual@cpc146410-hari22-2-0-cust124.20-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-26 20:13:17 +0200waglewagle-znc
2021-05-26 20:13:58 +0200dyeplexer(~dyeplexer@user/dyeplexer) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:14:14 +0200wagle-zncwagle
2021-05-26 20:14:29 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-05-26 20:14:30 +0200 <hamtidamti> monochrom: same guy
2021-05-26 20:14:41 +0200wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-05-26 20:14:47 +0200 <monochrom> This is surreal.
2021-05-26 20:14:49 +0200a1ternaltern
2021-05-26 20:15:13 +0200 <maerwald> pretty nice website
2021-05-26 20:15:39 +0200 <hamtidamti> Gets even better, check out PIA and the bitcoin investment funds
2021-05-26 20:15:53 +0200 <maerwald> right, where do I put my money
2021-05-26 20:16:13 +0200 <meejah> in the slot with the flames shooting out of it ...
2021-05-26 20:16:18 +0200 <hamtidamti> And shells.com, same clique
2021-05-26 20:17:33 +0200Tomurb(~tom@158.194.92.121) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 20:17:34 +0200aez(~aez@zoo-zarebski.zoo.ox.ac.uk)
2021-05-26 20:17:39 +0200 <hamtidamti> But hey congrats for #haskell to be here, i hope you find this to be a great home.
2021-05-26 20:18:12 +0200hamtidamti(~hmti@94.198.43.68) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-26 20:21:43 +0200 <bontaq> it almost has that haskell smell
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2021-05-26 20:24:46 +0200TheRAt(~TheRAt@user/therat) (Quit: :))
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2021-05-26 20:26:04 +0200emilypitapas
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2021-05-26 20:32:53 +0200 <edwardk> bontaq: its a mix of au de haskell hackathon and new channel smell. we'll get the mix right eventually. the former should... resolve itself once working from home guidelines go back to closer to normal
2021-05-26 20:33:09 +0200 <edwardk> er eau de
2021-05-26 20:33:20 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 20:33:50 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
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2021-05-26 20:34:38 +0200 <agumonke`> some people like to think free floating and grow organic solutions
2021-05-26 20:34:41 +0200 <edwardk> working on some stuff, dealing with this nonsense, then packing tomorrow and driving 9 hours the next day.
2021-05-26 20:34:48 +0200 <agumonke`> some people prefer strict thinking framework
2021-05-26 20:34:50 +0200jpds(~jpds@tor-relay.zwiebeltoralf.de)
2021-05-26 20:35:05 +0200Erutuon(~Erutuon@97-116-14-180.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-26 20:35:12 +0200 <edwardk> so i guess the drive is downtime, but still stress.
2021-05-26 20:35:26 +0200 <maerwald> agumonke`: yeah, but I think most of the programming community doesn't see it that way but is trying to figure out the "one right way", not understanding the psychological factors
2021-05-26 20:35:33 +0200 <maerwald> and focussing on technical aspects only
2021-05-26 20:35:36 +0200 <agumonke`> probably
2021-05-26 20:35:38 +0200 <sm> edwardk: best of luck. Just forget old #haskell if you need to, people will figure this out
2021-05-26 20:35:45 +0200 <Vq> edwardk: Take it easy
2021-05-26 20:35:45 +0200 <[exa]> so where do we purchase l'eau de haskell?
2021-05-26 20:35:52 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 20:35:53 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:36:08 +0200 <edwardk> sm: its up, its sort of there for the matrix and tor users still trapped there.
2021-05-26 20:36:38 +0200 <Vq> edwardk: It looks pretty dead to me.
2021-05-26 20:36:47 +0200 <sm> I'm not sure having it up is better to be honest
2021-05-26 20:36:54 +0200 <edwardk> i'm ever so mildly amused that the topic for ##haskell on freenode is now '#haskell discussion', and that the obvious recursive channels are present.
2021-05-26 20:36:56 +0200 <sm> but you don't want to hear that.. quiet sm
2021-05-26 20:37:03 +0200 <edwardk> but that's basically mild stress relief.
2021-05-26 20:37:57 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-26 20:38:15 +0200 <Vq> Really? Who set that topic?
2021-05-26 20:38:27 +0200 <monochrom> edwardk did :)
2021-05-26 20:38:33 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 20:38:36 +0200 <monochrom> with ideas from people
2021-05-26 20:39:02 +0200 <edwardk> it also links to https://haskell.org/irc
2021-05-26 20:39:16 +0200 <Vq> ##haskell is about discussing the killed channel or the channel here?
2021-05-26 20:39:17 +0200 <edwardk> because any direct link to where channels are might provoke the eye of sauron
2021-05-26 20:39:20 +0200 <monochrom> OK, I am not sure edwardk did. I just have correlations suggesting entanglement.
2021-05-26 20:39:27 +0200 <edwardk> i did
2021-05-26 20:39:29 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 20:39:31 +0200Lycurgus(~juan@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-05-26 20:39:46 +0200 <sm> Vq: there's a fair bit of meta discussion right now, it'll pass
2021-05-26 20:39:56 +0200 <sm> usually we discuss Haskell here :)
2021-05-26 20:39:59 +0200 <monochrom> The other thing edwardk did was creating DNS entry irc.cofreenode.net to alias to freenode.
2021-05-26 20:40:01 +0200 <hpc> edwardk: are we allowed to set the topic to "this is no longer the official channel and we can't tell you why"?
2021-05-26 20:40:08 +0200 <edwardk> there's ####haskell for '###haskell discussion' as well. but #####haskell is a redirect that internally has a haskell topic indicating no more than 3 levels of recursion is ever really required'
2021-05-26 20:40:08 +0200 <Vq> sm: ok, I'm still in #haskell and it's nice and quiet.
2021-05-26 20:40:24 +0200 <monochrom> The rest of us are supposed to take inspiration and register forgetfulnode etc.
2021-05-26 20:40:28 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259de574882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:40:33 +0200 <edwardk> hpc: no. that'll get us booted out leaving nobody there to fight spammers, til someone comes along without 'an agenda' or something.
2021-05-26 20:40:42 +0200 <maerwald> no more than 3 levels of recursion :D
2021-05-26 20:40:46 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf259de574882ed522245916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-26 20:40:50 +0200 <maerwald> should be enough for everyone
2021-05-26 20:41:10 +0200 <hpc> :(
2021-05-26 20:41:19 +0200fizbin(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 20:41:21 +0200fizbin_(~fizbin@c-73-33-197-160.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-26 20:41:22 +0200 <monochrom> Well the cycle could be seen as a joke on Haskell cyclic lazy list.
2021-05-26 20:41:27 +0200 <edwardk> Vq: if you disconnect you'll get redirected to ##haskell
2021-05-26 20:41:28 +0200 <Vq> edwardk: Won't that happen regardless when you keel over from trying to manage this?
2021-05-26 20:41:33 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 20:41:38 +0200 <edwardk> Vq: well, yes.
2021-05-26 20:41:56 +0200 <monochrom> https://ro-che.info/ccc/9
2021-05-26 20:42:09 +0200 <edwardk> thats why i've been taking out the stress by making stupid TANSTAAFN jokes and point irc.cofreenode.net as irc.freenode.net
2021-05-26 20:42:12 +0200 <edwardk> er pointing
2021-05-26 20:42:19 +0200 <monochrom> "you need to wake from pure dream to IO reality to observe the cycle"
2021-05-26 20:43:37 +0200 <edwardk> i'm not yet ready to rename Cofree to Lee, but it may wind up as shorthand in some of my code.
2021-05-26 20:44:01 +0200nuncanada(~dude@179.235.160.168)
2021-05-26 20:44:18 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Client Quit)
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2021-05-26 20:44:52 +0200 <agumonke`> i keep learning about monads, cps, streambased logical programming
2021-05-26 20:45:00 +0200reumeth(~joakim@2001:4652:9745:0:72c9:4eff:fea7:32ab)
2021-05-26 20:45:13 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.45) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:45:14 +0200 <agumonke`> but I can't store trees in on disk for a small app
2021-05-26 20:45:24 +0200zzzyou
2021-05-26 20:45:25 +0200 <statusbot> Status Bot enabled for #haskell
2021-05-26 20:45:32 +0200 <agumonke`> i blame haskell for all my mysery in life
2021-05-26 20:46:12 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-26 20:46:27 +0200youzzz
2021-05-26 20:47:47 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
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2021-05-26 20:48:12 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830::25)
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2021-05-26 20:48:23 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:49:18 +0200 <[exa]> agumonke`: who told you that you can't store trees on disk?
2021-05-26 20:49:38 +0200mig(~mig@2405:6580:b1c0:2500:3c98:f151:a0d9:62c7)
2021-05-26 20:50:03 +0200 <[exa]> (disks are full of trees)
2021-05-26 20:50:17 +0200 <monochrom> That can go philosophical very quickly regarding whether you're storing a tree or an encoding of such.
2021-05-26 20:50:43 +0200 <monochrom> And feel free to contemplate "what is a disk?" too >:)
2021-05-26 20:50:46 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 20:51:14 +0200Scotty_Trees(~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-26 20:51:21 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 20:51:32 +0200Scotty_Trees(~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-26 20:51:54 +0200 <tput> I store my trees on a magnetic annulus
2021-05-26 20:52:13 +0200 <monochrom> Indeed even from an engineering POV you still say "SS disk" but it's a square chip.
2021-05-26 20:52:35 +0200fizbin_(~fizbin@2601:82:c380:87a:1402:5197:16b7:3f5b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-05-26 20:52:38 +0200 <hpc> [exa]: i don't know if you're mixing up disks and filesystems, or thinking of LVM and being cheeky :P
2021-05-26 20:52:43 +0200 <monochrom> on a rectangular strip of circuit board.
2021-05-26 20:53:55 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad)
2021-05-26 20:54:27 +0200Scotty_Trees(~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net) (Client Quit)
2021-05-26 20:54:42 +0200 <edwardk> agumonke`: if you mmap the data from the disk you can even use lenses for manipulating this sort of thing.
2021-05-26 20:54:43 +0200Scotty_Trees(~Scotty_Tr@162-234-179-169.lightspeed.brhmal.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-26 20:55:47 +0200 <edwardk> monochrom: true, but that square chip almost certainly came out of a big disc-shaped wafer, no?
2021-05-26 20:56:21 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-05-26 20:56:28 +0200 <monochrom> Oh hehe well played!
2021-05-26 20:57:15 +0200jassob(~jassob@korrob.vth.sgsnet.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-05-26 20:57:38 +0200jassob(~jassob@korrob.vth.sgsnet.se)
2021-05-26 20:57:47 +0200 <sbmsr> y'all are a trip hahahaha
2021-05-26 20:57:52 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40)
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2021-05-26 20:59:44 +0200 <[exa]> ok this transcended earlier than I expected
2021-05-26 21:01:28 +0200lisq(~quassel@lis.moe)
2021-05-26 21:02:20 +0200ku(~ku@2601:280:c780:7ea0:c90:1ce1:5d7:acc4)
2021-05-26 21:05:07 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830::25) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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2021-05-26 21:05:30 +0200Grobi44(~grobi@dynamic-077-000-196-198.77.0.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-05-26 21:05:46 +0200sbmsr(~pi@2600:1700:63d0:4830::25)
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2021-05-26 21:07:20 +0200Grobi44Billie
2021-05-26 21:07:39 +0200BillieBlackMamba
2021-05-26 21:07:50 +0200gianscarpe(~user@82.180.49.106)
2021-05-26 21:08:04 +0200 <gianscarpe> Hi haskellers
2021-05-26 21:08:10 +0200leotaku(~leotaku@046207185046.atmpu0030.highway.a1.net)
2021-05-26 21:08:17 +0200taeaad(~taeaad@user/taeaad) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 21:08:25 +0200 <boxscape> heya
2021-05-26 21:08:30 +0200 <bontaq> hallo
2021-05-26 21:08:40 +0200energizer(~energizer@user/energizer)
2021-05-26 21:09:01 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-05-26 21:09:38 +0200quintasan(~quassel@quintasan.pl)
2021-05-26 21:10:03 +0200 <juri_> ohayou.
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2021-05-26 21:16:58 +0200tomsmedingis delighted that irc.cofreenode.net actually points to chat.freenode.net
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2021-05-26 21:28:23 +0200AkechiShiroRemiYuko
2021-05-26 21:29:35 +0200RemiYukoAkechiShiro
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2021-05-26 21:31:05 +0200habamax(~habamax@broadband-109-173-44-6.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
2021-05-26 21:31:56 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 21:32:02 +0200hueso(~root@152.170.216.40)
2021-05-26 21:32:27 +0200 <edwardk> tomsmeding: =)
2021-05-26 21:32:35 +0200 <tgy> haskell newbie question: in this code https://github.com/jetho/Hclip/blob/master/System/Hclip.hs#L109 i don't understand where the `os` argument passed to the `resolveOS` function is coming from. to me it's undefined and i don't understand why this code compiles
2021-05-26 21:33:18 +0200haskman(~haskman@223.190.96.197) (Quit: Going to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-26 21:34:00 +0200 <juri_> oooh. stan is neat.
2021-05-26 21:34:00 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-26 21:34:13 +0200 <wroathe> tgy: https://github.com/jetho/Hclip/blob/master/System/Hclip.hs#L30
2021-05-26 21:34:42 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@cpe-74-72-45-166.nyc.res.rr.com)
2021-05-26 21:35:04 +0200 <tgy> wroathe: :facepalm:
2021-05-26 21:35:09 +0200 <tgy> thx
2021-05-26 21:35:32 +0200tonyz(~tonyz@user/tonyz)
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2021-05-26 22:02:09 +0200AkechiShiro(~licht@user/akechishiro)
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2021-05-26 22:07:05 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 22:07:48 +0200 <maerwald> https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/5331 needs more votes
2021-05-26 22:09:48 +0200ggVGc1(~ggVGc@a.lowtech.earth) (WeeChat 3.1)
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2021-05-26 22:19:01 +0200brisad(~user@81-234-107-251-no522.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-05-26 22:19:30 +0200 <maerwald> weeder doesn't seem to detect dead dependencies here
2021-05-26 22:19:37 +0200 <tapas> maerwald: i'll read and give a decision
2021-05-26 22:21:07 +0200alex3(~Chel@BSN-77-82-41.static.siol.net)
2021-05-26 22:21:09 +0200reumeth(~joakim@2001:4652:9745:0:72c9:4eff:fea7:32ab) (Quit: reumeth)
2021-05-26 22:21:09 +0200 <tapas> this is entirely sensible.
2021-05-26 22:21:17 +0200 <tapas> go for it
2021-05-26 22:21:43 +0200 <tapas> make sure you rebase to master tho - a massive PR just went in
2021-05-26 22:21:50 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-80-180-196-134.retail.telecomitalia.it)
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2021-05-26 22:28:04 +0200 <wz1000> maerwald: why not -Wunused-packages?
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2021-05-26 22:29:47 +0200pilipilihoho(~pilipilih@108.180.14.158)
2021-05-26 22:29:48 +0200 <maerwald> wz1000: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/5331#issuecomment-433693816
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2021-05-26 22:31:23 +0200 <tapas> i'd argue GHC is the wrong place to detect unused packages, but fine
2021-05-26 22:31:36 +0200 <tapas> er, not unused, but duplicate packages
2021-05-26 22:31:58 +0200 <maerwald> and it doesn't detect indirectly unused packages as per the comment
2021-05-26 22:32:30 +0200fendor_fendor
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2021-05-26 22:34:53 +0200 <wz1000> maerwald: I think things have changed since that comment
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2021-05-26 22:35:12 +0200dustingetz(~textual@pool-173-49-123-198.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-05-26 22:35:29 +0200 <wz1000> At least the people working on the GHC driver rework seem to assume that --make will be the standard way cabal uses ghc
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2021-05-26 22:35:57 +0200 <maerwald> do the cabal devs think so too? :>
2021-05-26 22:36:00 +0200thaumavorio(~thaumavor@thaumavor.io) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-26 22:36:21 +0200 <wz1000> and there is a lot of work in progress making ghc move to fine grained hash based recompilation checking so that those bits of cabal can be removed all together
2021-05-26 22:36:30 +0200 <wz1000> I don't know, tapas might
2021-05-26 22:36:48 +0200thaumavorio(~thaumavor@thaumavor.io)
2021-05-26 22:36:55 +0200guest0123(~aaron@2601:602:a080:fa0:745b:c700:b4c:aac3)
2021-05-26 22:37:00 +0200danso(~danso@23-233-111-52.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-05-26 22:37:01 +0200 <wz1000> But I think it will be great if recompilation checking at least can be handled entirely in GHC instead of an adhoc duplication of the logic in cabal
2021-05-26 22:37:11 +0200 <tapas> that's in a *very* greenfield stage
2021-05-26 22:37:31 +0200 <tapas> plus, if it's in the cards, there's no harm in having a year's worth of convenience that we can then rip out with little fuss
2021-05-26 22:37:40 +0200 <wz1000> there is also the work on -jsem and finer grained parrallelism in GHC
2021-05-26 22:37:57 +0200 <wz1000> I don't see how that will work outside of --make mode
2021-05-26 22:39:06 +0200 <wz1000> tapas: I mean, -Wunused-packages already works
2021-05-26 22:39:38 +0200 <wz1000> also, are there actually any concrete plans since hvrs comment to make cabal use one shot mode?
2021-05-26 22:39:40 +0200 <tapas> yeah, i would call this a lower prio feature
2021-05-26 22:40:08 +0200 <maerwald> wz1000: get hvr to comment :p
2021-05-26 22:40:24 +0200 <tapas> wz1000: unsure. Tbh, i don't have the best background on this history. HVR is gone and the history goes with him :)
2021-05-26 22:40:29 +0200 <wz1000> maerwald: I don't think --make is going away anytime soon.
2021-05-26 22:40:38 +0200 <maerwald> tapas: how gone is he really?
2021-05-26 22:41:46 +0200 <tapas> he hasn't been available for maintenance in a year+, and if he did come back, it'd be in an advisory capacity for several reasons
2021-05-26 22:43:23 +0200 <maerwald> I think I'm gonna say goodbye to libarchive... too many c2hs errors. The C parser is really not working well.
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2021-05-26 22:47:54 +0200 <wz1000> tapas: btw mpickering and dfordvm are making very good progress on the driver rework, you should probably have a chat with them
2021-05-26 22:47:54 +0200AkechiShiro(~licht@user/akechishiro)
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2021-05-26 22:52:47 +0200Mek(~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com) (http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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2021-05-26 22:54:22 +0200manicennui(uid349235@id-349235.tinside.irccloud.com) ()
2021-05-26 22:54:29 +0200 <maerwald> well, the output from -Wunused-packages is confusing... it doesn't say which target it belongs to
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2021-05-26 22:54:57 +0200 <maerwald> then I removed one dep, it failed to compile and then started to recommend more removals that resulted in more errors
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2021-05-26 22:55:43 +0200Schrostfutz(~Schrostfu@p2e585eba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-05-26 22:59:15 +0200 <monochrom> :)
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2021-05-26 22:59:32 +0200pony(sid257727@brockwell.irccloud.com) ()
2021-05-26 22:59:46 +0200 <monochrom> I think all mechanical fix-dependencies algorithms have that trait.
2021-05-26 23:00:13 +0200phma(phma@2001:5b0:210b:c908:65f2:b626:259e:91d6)
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2021-05-26 23:11:10 +0200dixie(~dixie@real.wilbury.sk)
2021-05-26 23:11:49 +0200 <maerwald> sm: you remember this obscude strip ansi escape sequence thing you do in hledger? It doesn't work on windows :)
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2021-05-26 23:18:55 +0200 <monochrom> Would it help if the code page were 65001?
2021-05-26 23:19:16 +0200 <monochrom> err nevermind, it still wouldn't honour ansi code
2021-05-26 23:19:36 +0200 <monochrom> Would the new "Windows terminal" thing work?
2021-05-26 23:19:56 +0200 <geekosaur> stripping codes, not interpreting them I think
2021-05-26 23:20:04 +0200 <monochrom> Ah sorry.
2021-05-26 23:20:21 +0200 <Vq> File a bug-report to Microsoft? :o)
2021-05-26 23:20:32 +0200 <maerwald> putStrLn seems to do some magic that make escape codes work
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2021-05-26 23:21:19 +0200 <geekosaur> as opposed to?
2021-05-26 23:21:29 +0200 <monochrom> putStrLn is affected by locale is affected by code page so maybe I should resurface my 65001 suggestion :)
2021-05-26 23:21:32 +0200 <maerwald> whatever crap I'm using :p
2021-05-26 23:21:50 +0200gordonfish(~gordonfis@user/gordonfish)
2021-05-26 23:22:17 +0200 <geekosaur> usually "make escape codes work"" means "not using Show instances" but could also conceivably mean text vs. binary mode on Windows
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