IRCBrowse

2020/11/12

2020-11-12 00:00:01 +0000paulk-collins(~paulk-col@195.206.169.184) ()
2020-11-12 00:00:44 +0000 <dminuoso> How does one impost a young person with that.. etymology monochrom?
2020-11-12 00:00:54 +0000 <dminuoso> You should make an entry in merriam webster
2020-11-12 00:01:27 +0000 <dminuoso> Or is this some obscure form of Canadian humor?
2020-11-12 00:01:38 +0000jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.9.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-12 00:01:59 +0000 <jackdk> Does anyone know if the isos with the following types have a canonical name anywhere? `Iso' (Compose f Identity a) (f a)` and `Iso' (Compose Identity f a) (f a)`
2020-11-12 00:02:00 +0000 <monochrom> perhaps simply ESL
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2020-11-12 00:02:37 +0000sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-12 00:03:54 +0000 <dminuoso> jackdk: categories calls them idl and idr
2020-11-12 00:04:06 +0000 <dminuoso> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/categories-1.0.7/docs/Control-Category-Monoidal.html
2020-11-12 00:04:24 +0000 <dminuoso> Not sure whether that's "canonical"
2020-11-12 00:04:45 +0000 <dminuoso> But I'd suspect they'd always go with `idr` `identityR` or some such.
2020-11-12 00:05:25 +0000 <dminuoso> (or you could call them lambda/rho)
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2020-11-12 00:15:15 +0000 <bqv> Anyone used lazyio?
2020-11-12 00:15:23 +0000Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41)
2020-11-12 00:16:33 +0000replay(~default@pdpc/supporter/student/replay)
2020-11-12 00:17:49 +0000 <sm[m]> has anybody seen automated tests for a vty/brick app ? I tried with expect and empty but did not get there - https://github.com/simonmichael/hledger/tree/master/tests/ui
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2020-11-12 00:41:30 +0000hackagepolysemy-extra 0.1.2.0 - Extra Input and Output functions for polysemy.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-extra-0.1.2.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-11-12 00:44:11 +0000christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-12 00:46:13 +0000 <bqv> Ooh..
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2020-11-12 00:48:31 +0000hackagepolysemy-vinyl 0.1.1.0 - Functions for mapping vinyl records in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-vinyl-0.1.1.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-11-12 01:28:23 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@46.217.216.229)
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2020-11-12 01:29:30 +0000hackageimplicit-hie 0.1.2.1 - Auto generate hie-bios cradles & hie.yaml https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie-0.1.2.1 (Avi_Dessauer)
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2020-11-12 01:31:00 +0000hackageimplicit-hie-cradle 0.3.0.0 - Auto generate hie-bios cradles https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie-cradle-0.3.0.0 (Avi_Dessauer)
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2020-11-12 01:57:52 +0000 <bqv> Translating imperative code to funct
2020-11-12 01:57:59 +0000 <bqv> onal is a pain
2020-11-12 01:57:59 +0000tabemann(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-12 01:58:17 +0000dbmikus__(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-11-12 01:58:36 +0000 <bqv> requires full redesign, not just porting
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2020-11-12 02:00:41 +0000 <sm[m]> it's often said that you can replicate imperative code in haskell. It's true, but not often done. If the techniques were better known it might be used a bit more
2020-11-12 02:01:01 +0000wwwww(~wwwww@unaffiliated/wwwww)
2020-11-12 02:01:56 +0000 <bqv> I mean you can, it's just not ergonomic to write or efficient to run
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2020-11-12 02:17:38 +0000sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge)
2020-11-12 02:17:57 +0000 <koz_> bqv: I dunno why you claim the latter. ST is pretty efficient IIRC.
2020-11-12 02:18:09 +0000angerman(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vpzhonusupvskvmg) (Excess Flood)
2020-11-12 02:18:19 +0000angerman(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mlhkemfvngmbvuol)
2020-11-12 02:19:28 +0000 <bqv> My gut feeling is it wouldnt be as effective as the pure haskell approach, since its kinda a mixture of both, but im happy to be corrected
2020-11-12 02:20:43 +0000 <koz_> bqv: If you need mutability (which is what I guess the problem in translation would be), you can have it with ST.
2020-11-12 02:21:06 +0000 <koz_> And it's pretty efficient as far as I'm aware.
2020-11-12 02:23:22 +0000 <bqv> For the specific example im looking at (nasty nested for loops) i wouldnt doubt, but if i were to try and use it for the whole port im doing, id have to find an analogue for pointers too, as well as any freaky memory tricks, so i think its fair to assume it'd be less effective without some pretty sharp optimizing
2020-11-12 02:23:57 +0000 <koz_> Uhh, we have pointers in GHC.
2020-11-12 02:24:00 +0000 <koz_> Of various stripes even.
2020-11-12 02:24:19 +0000 <koz_> And you can have 'nasty nested for-loops' in ST using ... wait for it... 'for'? :P
2020-11-12 02:24:28 +0000 <koz_> (or for_ if you just need mutation)
2020-11-12 02:25:01 +0000 <koz_> Like, I admit that it's not the nicest way to write Haskell, but it's neither particularly hard, nor particularly inefficient.
2020-11-12 02:25:27 +0000 <bqv> *shrug* i'll take your word for it, still steering clear
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2020-11-12 02:37:31 +0000 <jophish> Perhaps I'm having a moment, but is there a nicer way of using values at compile time in quasiquotes than: $(lift [q|...|]). For example, lets say I have a quasiquoter doing string interpolation (so [q|$x$y|] becomes `x <> y`) but I'd like to evaluate that at compile time
2020-11-12 02:37:41 +0000 <jophish> $(lift foo) seems pretty weird
2020-11-12 02:37:52 +0000da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@cm-171-98-69-228.revip7.asianet.co.th)
2020-11-12 02:38:13 +0000 <jophish> I mean, I guess I could incorporate the lift into the output of the quoter, but $([q|...|]) also looks quite clumsy
2020-11-12 02:38:59 +0000Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-amyflsszyhqepalq) ()
2020-11-12 02:39:26 +0000jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.9.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
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2020-11-12 02:41:56 +0000 <koz_> If you have QuasiQuotes turned on, and 'q' is a quasiquoter you defined, you can just do [q|..|]?
2020-11-12 02:43:17 +0000 <jophish> [q|$x$y|] will insert the expression `x <> y` (for this interpolating quasiquoter), but what I really want is a string literal with contents equal to `x <> y`
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2020-11-12 02:43:41 +0000 <jophish> stage restrictions notwithstanding
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2020-11-12 02:44:08 +0000Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-11-12 02:44:22 +0000 <jophish> I suppose perhaps a simpler example is, can I write a quasiquoter [file|x|] which will become the results of: `readFile x`
2020-11-12 02:44:33 +0000 <jophish> instead of becoming literally `readFile x`
2020-11-12 02:45:08 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-12 02:45:28 +0000 <jophish> This is tantamount to getting the RHS of declarations in a splice
2020-11-12 02:45:31 +0000 <jophish> which GHC doesn't support
2020-11-12 02:45:51 +0000 <jophish> so perhaps this two stage process (i.e. $([q|...|])) is necessary
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2020-11-12 02:51:18 +0000 <jophish> Seems quite relevant: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48489622/why-is-there-no-representation-for-th-in-th
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2020-11-12 03:19:31 +0000hackageimplicit-hie 0.1.2.2 - Auto generate hie-bios cradles & hie.yaml https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie-0.1.2.2 (Avi_Dessauer)
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2020-11-12 03:46:32 +0000 <zeta_0> hey there i'm trying to get hls to work in emacs, but it's throwing this error? `Command "hie-wrapper --lsp -d -l /tmp/hie.log" is not present on the path.
2020-11-12 03:46:32 +0000 <zeta_0> `, I thought that is automatically set by default? https://github.com/emacs-lsp/lsp-haskell
2020-11-12 03:47:39 +0000aarvar(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
2020-11-12 03:48:00 +0000 <zeta_0> note, i installed hls with nix, from nixpkgs, and the binary is there, so I have no idea what the issue is!
2020-11-12 03:48:20 +0000glguywonders if hls works with the spacemacs haskell lyaer
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2020-11-12 03:48:46 +0000 <zeta_0> i'm using plain generic emacs!
2020-11-12 03:49:11 +0000 <glguy> I'm not; I'm using spacemacs :)
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2020-11-12 03:54:01 +0000hackageimplicit-hie 0.1.2.3 - Auto generate hie-bios cradles & hie.yaml https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie-0.1.2.3 (Avi_Dessauer)
2020-11-12 03:56:03 +0000 <zeta_0> here's my lsp-config that i'm using in my .emacs config: https://dpaste.org/U7Lb , any tips on how to fix this: `Command "hie-wrapper --lsp -d -l /tmp/hie.log" is not present on the path.
2020-11-12 03:56:03 +0000 <zeta_0> ` issue?
2020-11-12 03:56:21 +0000 <zeta_0> lsp-haskell config that is!
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2020-11-12 03:58:18 +0000 <zeta_0> i ran hie-gen as well, so that should't be an issue, and I installed hls with nix, and hls's binary is in the path, so i'm not sure where to go from here.
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2020-11-12 04:56:55 +0000 <glguy> The answer is that it's very easy to get it working with spacemacs, as it turns out
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2020-11-12 06:03:59 +0000 <dsal> @hoogle ((<&>))
2020-11-12 06:04:00 +0000 <lambdabot> Prelude undefined :: forall (r :: RuntimeRep) . forall (a :: TYPE r) . HasCallStack => a
2020-11-12 06:04:00 +0000 <lambdabot> Control.Exception.Base absentSumFieldError :: a
2020-11-12 06:04:00 +0000 <lambdabot> Text.Printf errorShortFormat :: a
2020-11-12 06:04:17 +0000 <dsal> Hmm... I'm trying to remember a thing that exists...
2020-11-12 06:04:57 +0000 <dsal> There's a thing like <|> but not applicative.
2020-11-12 06:06:32 +0000 <dsal> Ah, it's <!>
2020-11-12 06:07:07 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-12 06:08:25 +0000 <dsal> Nah, still not what I want. I think I'm trying to be too fancy.
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2020-11-12 06:31:09 +0000 <Echosolacre> Hey all, I'm still a beginner and I am wondering how to read this... on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c. Is this to say that the typeclass of on is defined by a binary function which maps to a unary function which maps to a twice and then outputs c?
2020-11-12 06:31:24 +0000 <Echosolacre> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Data-Function.html
2020-11-12 06:31:31 +0000 <Echosolacre> I'm following the above.
2020-11-12 06:31:46 +0000 <Echosolacre> Going through LYAH and this on function is throwing me a bit.
2020-11-12 06:32:18 +0000 <Echosolacre> Any thoughts would be greatly appeciated.
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2020-11-12 06:40:54 +0000hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d168e73.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2020-11-12 06:43:13 +0000 <jackdk> I think you have the idea right, but avoid using the word "typeclass" to describe this, because that's a specific concept in haskell
2020-11-12 06:43:46 +0000 <jackdk> I think it's clearer if you add parens that are not strictly necessary: `on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> a -> c)`
2020-11-12 06:43:48 +0000 <jackdk> gtg
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2020-11-12 06:48:11 +0000 <Echosolacre> I have a really basic question about what Jackdk just said. When you look at (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> (a -> a -> c), I think of it like there is a function that takes a variable, maps it to the same variable, and then outputs a different variable. (b -> b-> c).
2020-11-12 06:48:18 +0000Sanchayan(~Sanchayan@122.181.216.76)
2020-11-12 06:48:20 +0000 <Echosolacre> Sorry, this understanding is probably way off.
2020-11-12 06:48:32 +0000 <Echosolacre> How do you guys read these sections of the code?
2020-11-12 06:49:33 +0000 <Echosolacre> '->' is plain speak is "map to", no?
2020-11-12 06:49:44 +0000 <Echosolacre> plain speak for*
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2020-11-12 07:02:02 +0000 <c_wraith> I generally don't read code in words.
2020-11-12 07:02:08 +0000 <c_wraith> They're too limiting
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2020-11-12 07:52:52 +0000 <dminuoso> jackdk: btw did you settle on a name for those isos?
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2020-11-12 08:29:01 +0000hackagefuthark 0.18.3 - An optimising compiler for a functional, array-oriented language. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/futhark-0.18.3 (TroelsHenriksen)
2020-11-12 08:29:48 +0000daydaynatation(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-11-12 08:30:15 +0000 <daydaynatation> cabal install gtk -f have-quartz-gtk, what does the -f mean?
2020-11-12 08:30:30 +0000 <c_wraith> it sets a flag
2020-11-12 08:31:14 +0000 <c_wraith> the cabal file uses the flag in conditionals that can affect lots of things. in this, most likely the native dependency
2020-11-12 08:31:29 +0000 <daydaynatation> I see.
2020-11-12 08:31:41 +0000 <c_wraith> I'd take that flag to mean it's the quartz version of gtk, rather than the X version
2020-11-12 08:32:03 +0000 <c_wraith> (because even on OS X, you can run an X server and build GTK for X)
2020-11-12 08:32:31 +0000 <daydaynatation> I've successfully build and installed gtk with the above command
2020-11-12 08:33:01 +0000hackageghc-exactprint 0.6.3.3 - ExactPrint for GHC https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-exactprint-0.6.3.3 (AlanZimmerman)
2020-11-12 08:33:02 +0000jedws(~jedws@101.184.175.183)
2020-11-12 08:33:04 +0000 <daydaynatation> but when I try cabal install threadscope which requires gtk, it not only requires me to build gtk again, but it also failed
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2020-11-12 08:36:05 +0000 <merijn> Oh, let me guess you have cabal-install 3.0 or later?
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2020-11-12 08:37:24 +0000 <merijn> See, this why we should've banned feature flags from Hackage years ago to stop people from building things that are just cursed and broken >.>
2020-11-12 08:38:50 +0000jedws(~jedws@101.184.175.183)
2020-11-12 08:39:06 +0000 <daydaynatation> merijn: yes, version 3.2
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2020-11-12 08:41:52 +0000 <merijn> daydaynatation: You are getting hosed by gtk abusing things in ways they're not supposed to and that accidentally working for years...
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2020-11-12 08:42:47 +0000 <merijn> daydaynatation: Try the following: clone threadscope from github, change directory to it, then use "cabal install --projectfile=cabal.project.osx"
2020-11-12 08:43:25 +0000jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.9.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
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2020-11-12 08:44:05 +0000christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-12 08:45:31 +0000 <merijn> daydaynatation: Essentially, flags were never intended to and shouldn't affect the public API/build setup of packages, but people abuse them for that anyway. Which worked fine in old cabal-install's because it would use "whatever version was already installed" (like the gtk you installed just now). But in >3.0 the buildplan doesn't depend on what's already installed
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2020-11-12 08:49:00 +0000 <tomsmeding> can't you tell cabal to set a flag on some particular package in the dependency tree?
2020-11-12 08:49:15 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: In cabal.project, yes. Not in your cabal file
2020-11-12 08:49:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> ah right
2020-11-12 08:49:22 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: And that is intentional
2020-11-12 08:49:43 +0000 <merijn> So people can't use flags to control what feature/API is exposed
2020-11-12 08:49:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> to be fair, is there another way for packages like gtk to have public "parameters"?
2020-11-12 08:49:50 +0000whatisRT(~whatisRT@2002:5b41:6a33:0:80a8:2f65:adf1:4c95)
2020-11-12 08:49:51 +0000 <merijn> But, of course, that's not stopped anyone
2020-11-12 08:50:20 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: Make a core library that's wrapped by gtk-quartz and gtk-x11
2020-11-12 08:50:53 +0000 <merijn> Also, the (now mostly stalled) work on backpack
2020-11-12 08:50:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> because this feels like a so-called desire path :p
2020-11-12 08:51:12 +0000cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2020-11-12 08:51:53 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: You need to invert your interface so instead of conditionally depending on something you wrap. See persistent and the various persistent-postgres, persistent-sqlite, etc. wrappers
2020-11-12 08:52:06 +0000 <merijn> Selda does the same, diagrams does that
2020-11-12 08:52:15 +0000 <tomsmeding> yeah I've seen the pattern
2020-11-12 08:52:23 +0000 <benschza> Good morning everyone! I've been exploring Arrows and Yampa, and have reached a type error that I'm struggling to interpret. The resulting type seems so close, but I'm using this as a project to continue learning Haskell, so I'm in the deep end. `Expected type: SF (SF () State) (Event (SF () State))` and `Actual type: SF State (Event (SF () State))` - here's a gist: https://gist.github.com/BenSchZA/57f1f46ec8e2ecc0f304ede813e5f4eb I think my
2020-11-12 08:52:23 +0000 <benschza> question is two fold, what am I missing, and how can I improve my translation of Arrow proc notation into pure Arrow notation. Appreciate any guidance!
2020-11-12 08:52:28 +0000Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01cb09b06b29ea6448a1be2d68fad7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-11-12 08:53:07 +0000 <merijn> benschza: I think there's, like, a handful of people who actually know/understand Arrow notation :p
2020-11-12 08:53:30 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-constaints 0.3.0.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constaints-0.3.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-12 08:54:12 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: The only other option is to modify Cabal to allow people to specify constraints on their *transitive* dependencies, which is clearly a nightmare
2020-11-12 08:54:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> benschza: this is probably ghc doing type inference and showing the error far from where it actually occurred. Suggestion: add lots of manual type signatures on your intermediate values, and see where it doesn't match up with reality
2020-11-12 08:55:25 +0000 <tomsmeding> merijn: indeed that would be interesting if you have two dependencies A and B that both depend on different configurations of a single package C
2020-11-12 08:55:31 +0000 <benschza> tomsmeding: Thanks! I'll give that a try.
2020-11-12 08:55:46 +0000 <[exa]> benschza: btw if you didn't use a type hole yet, now is the time :]
2020-11-12 08:56:36 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e00894576386620b0d0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-11-12 08:57:40 +0000 <benschza> [exa]: I'll have to Google that :) Thanks for the pointer.
2020-11-12 08:57:51 +0000 <merijn> tomsmeding: In the end, I understand why the desire path is there, but some things are required/blocked for a reason, see also: people complaining about needing to write out module lists, people complaining about maintaining upperbounds, etc.
2020-11-12 08:58:20 +0000 <tomsmeding> true enough
2020-11-12 08:58:23 +0000 <merijn> As always, these problems are "trivial" if you just throw long term stability/usability under the bus
2020-11-12 08:58:44 +0000 <merijn> But if you think about how things should work long term, it just can't work
2020-11-12 08:58:54 +0000 <[exa]> benschza: basically you add ` :: _ ` after anything and the compiler reports on what it thinks should be in place of the _
2020-11-12 08:59:19 +0000 <[exa]> (same for values)
2020-11-12 09:00:01 +0000RISCi_ATOM1(~RISCi_ATO@185.163.110.116) ()
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2020-11-12 09:06:39 +0000 <daydaynatation> merijn: cabal complain that it doesn recognize --projectfile=...
2020-11-12 09:06:50 +0000 <daydaynatation> is it the right flag? I checked ont he user guide, couldn't find
2020-11-12 09:06:52 +0000 <merijn> oh, maybe it's --project-file?
2020-11-12 09:07:07 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2020-11-12 09:07:22 +0000kritzefitz(~kritzefit@p2e5a5f99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-11-12 09:07:49 +0000 <daydaynatation> thx
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2020-11-12 09:19:55 +0000 <maerwald> was there a cabal helper tool that bumps version bounds of your package?
2020-11-12 09:20:33 +0000 <merijn> I think someone was working on one at some point?
2020-11-12 09:21:11 +0000 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-bounds
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2020-11-12 09:30:34 +0000 <dminuoso> Is there a safe variant of fromIntegral anywhere?
2020-11-12 09:30:54 +0000 <dminuoso> I need runtime verification, not static.
2020-11-12 09:31:13 +0000 <merijn> dminuoso: I recommend a strong whisky and crying :)
2020-11-12 09:31:40 +0000 <maerwald> Glendronach 21
2020-11-12 09:31:57 +0000 <merijn> Sadness goes better with Islay
2020-11-12 09:32:03 +0000 <dminuoso> maerwald: Does that go well with Cola or better in tea?
2020-11-12 09:32:07 +0000 <maerwald> dude
2020-11-12 09:32:17 +0000 <merijn> dminuoso: I know you're joking and I'm still mad
2020-11-12 09:32:28 +0000SeMas(uid32977@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ccoximdwznrvbzyv) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-12 09:32:41 +0000 <dminuoso> merijn: I have quite a few whiskey fans, it triggers them every time. ;)
2020-11-12 09:33:09 +0000 <dminuoso> Or *whisky I guess
2020-11-12 09:33:09 +0000 <merijn> Whisky cola is fine, but just use shitty whisky >.>
2020-11-12 09:33:16 +0000 <maerwald> so you're a whisky?
2020-11-12 09:33:38 +0000 <merijn> Good whisky in cola ruins both your whisky and your cola (and your wallet) :p
2020-11-12 09:33:41 +0000 <dminuoso> Maybe the problem is that whisky connoisseurs don't use high quality cola for mixing their whisky.
2020-11-12 09:34:04 +0000 <[exa]> "high-quality cola" please elaborate
2020-11-12 09:34:11 +0000 <dminuoso> On a slightly more serious note, Im pondering getting these "cooling stones" for whisky.
2020-11-12 09:34:18 +0000 <dminuoso> But not for cooling it, but for heating rum.
2020-11-12 09:34:52 +0000 <dminuoso> Getting rum up to 25-28 degrees brings out quite a few flavors
2020-11-12 09:35:09 +0000 <merijn> I recommend we move this to offtopic :p
2020-11-12 09:35:13 +0000 <dminuoso> Indeed.
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2020-11-12 09:40:30 +0000hackagepolysemy-extra 0.1.3.0 - Extra Input and Output functions for polysemy.. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-extra-0.1.3.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-11-12 09:50:39 +0000 <dminuoso> merijn: on a more serious note, am I expected to just manually compare with maxBound?
2020-11-12 09:50:58 +0000 <dminuoso> Why is there no freaking numeric conversion with error handling in base?
2020-11-12 09:51:29 +0000 <dminuoso> Is it just assumed that narrowing cant possibly happening? Or that when it happens, its semantics (what are they?) are obviously what you want?
2020-11-12 09:51:33 +0000 <merijn> dminuoso: On a more seriouse note, I had to handroll it and you get awkward conversion too
2020-11-12 09:51:52 +0000 <dminuoso> Dont people ever deal with numbers? :(
2020-11-12 09:52:04 +0000 <dminuoso> Im so close to just use Integer everywhere.
2020-11-12 09:52:06 +0000 <merijn> dminuoso: I welcome any suggestions/things in GHC that improve this
2020-11-12 09:52:29 +0000 <merijn> dminuoso: It's somewhere down on my yak shaving list
2020-11-12 09:54:09 +0000nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu)
2020-11-12 09:57:30 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-constraints 0.3.0.1 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constraints-0.3.0.1 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 11:09:00 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-constraints 0.3.1.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constraints-0.3.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 11:36:30 +0000Emerald(8ba7aee6@139.167.174.230)
2020-11-12 11:37:56 +0000 <trcc> Hi. I am trying to figure out why the haskell visual studio code extension fails to detect my stack installation. I have just followed the very initial steps of "Start your new project" here: https://docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/README/. WHen I open the folder in vscode then I get: "ghcide: unable to load package `ghc-prim-0.5.3` compiler [1,1]". Any ideas?
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2020-11-12 11:38:21 +0000bergsans(~bergsans@c80-217-8-29.bredband.comhem.se)
2020-11-12 11:39:08 +0000 <benschza> [exa] and tomsmeding: thanks to your pointers I got the types right for the Arrows/Yampa problem.
2020-11-12 11:41:01 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-examples 0.4.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-examples functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-examples-0.4.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 12:00:01 +0000tsmango(~tsmango@178.239.168.171) ()
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2020-11-12 12:11:13 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@207.253.244.210)
2020-11-12 12:14:38 +0000 <nshepperd2> > fromIntegral 12345678 :: Word8
2020-11-12 12:14:40 +0000 <lambdabot> 78
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2020-11-12 12:16:43 +0000 <Taneb> This is because 12345600 = 256 * 48225 and Word8 wraps
2020-11-12 12:17:02 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@207.253.244.210)
2020-11-12 12:17:38 +0000jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2020-11-12 12:17:45 +0000machined1od(~machinedg@207.253.244.210)
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2020-11-12 12:21:15 +0000 <nshepperd> seems reasonable
2020-11-12 12:23:59 +0000 <Taneb> Dumb idea: Word6.644ish, that wraps at 100
2020-11-12 12:26:31 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-constraints 0.3.2.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constraints-0.3.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-12 12:31:54 +0000 <nshepperd> heh
2020-11-12 12:34:39 +0000neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj) (Quit: leaving)
2020-11-12 12:38:01 +0000 <pjb> nshepperd: seems idiotic. That's how you destroy rockets.
2020-11-12 12:38:25 +0000alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:5893:9820:69f2:6f2)
2020-11-12 12:38:46 +0000 <merijn> pjb: Well, what do you propose, then
2020-11-12 12:39:00 +0000 <pjb> bigints.
2020-11-12 12:39:12 +0000 <merijn> That seems rather unrelated
2020-11-12 12:39:13 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-12 12:39:25 +0000 <pjb> yeah…
2020-11-12 12:39:34 +0000acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net)
2020-11-12 12:40:00 +0000 <pjb> It should signal an error.
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2020-11-12 12:41:35 +0000 <merijn> Feel free to define proper semantics for that
2020-11-12 12:41:41 +0000 <merijn> Many people have tried and failed :)
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2020-11-12 13:01:31 +0000hackagevulkan-utils 0.1.3 - Utils for the vulkan package https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vulkan-utils-0.1.3 (jophish)
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2020-11-12 13:07:11 +0000 <xerox_> will ghc run on the arm macs straight away?
2020-11-12 13:08:04 +0000 <merijn> Who knows
2020-11-12 13:08:18 +0000 <jophish> do the GHC team have one of the dev boxeS?
2020-11-12 13:08:26 +0000 <merijn> Probably not
2020-11-12 13:08:50 +0000 <merijn> ARM has tier 2 support, currently, iirc
2020-11-12 13:10:07 +0000texasmynsted(~texasmyns@212.102.45.118)
2020-11-12 13:10:14 +0000 <merijn> So the answer to "will GHC run on ARM macs?" is "that depends how much effort you will contribute to that cause" ;)
2020-11-12 13:10:48 +0000texasmyn_(~texasmyns@212.102.45.118)
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2020-11-12 13:11:41 +0000 <merijn> I know angerman is doing a lot of stuff w.r.t Aarch64 support in GHC
2020-11-12 13:12:19 +0000AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2020-11-12 13:12:31 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
2020-11-12 13:12:38 +0000 <angerman> xerox_: yes; jophish: yes, I have a DTK on my desk.
2020-11-12 13:13:05 +0000Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-12 13:13:10 +0000 <angerman> xerox_: you can use rosetta2, ghc works well enough to build a native ghc.
2020-11-12 13:13:47 +0000 <angerman> here's a fully native, GHC-9.1 with an arm64 NCG: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/jskw2pjpkhquj4g/ghc-9.1.0.20201110-aarch64-apple-darwin.tar.xz
2020-11-12 13:14:12 +0000WeChanTonio(~WeChanTon@186-130-20-31.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2020-11-12 13:14:16 +0000 <jophish> I wonder how the code signing thing is going to impact nixos
2020-11-12 13:14:21 +0000 <angerman> We'll likely need a bit of time to get this (a) merged into master, (b) backported into 9.0 and maybe earlier.
2020-11-12 13:14:51 +0000 <angerman> jophish: it's ok. thefloweringash and I did test, and manage to produce identical binaries. However "nixos" and darwin don't mix well :p
2020-11-12 13:15:00 +0000hackageapecs-stm 0.1.4 - STM stores for apecs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/apecs-stm-0.1.4 (jonascarpay)
2020-11-12 13:15:03 +0000 <angerman> darwin + nixpkgs, will need some more work, but we'll get there.
2020-11-12 13:15:24 +0000 <jophish> I guess you had to share a key?
2020-11-12 13:15:38 +0000 <angerman> no. adhoc signatures don't need keeys.
2020-11-12 13:15:53 +0000 <jophish> oh, so they always use the same key
2020-11-12 13:16:15 +0000 <angerman> it's just some integrity hash.
2020-11-12 13:16:20 +0000 <jophish> right
2020-11-12 13:16:38 +0000wei2912(~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912)
2020-11-12 13:16:40 +0000 <angerman> I think thefloweringhash did provide some more details in the nixpkgs comments on the issue.
2020-11-12 13:17:01 +0000Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01cb09b06b29ea5faf5572fb93fcc2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-11-12 13:17:04 +0000 <angerman> if you want to use GHC or nix right away on an arm64 mac, maybe hold off for at least a month.
2020-11-12 13:17:13 +0000 <angerman> it's possible, but it's going to be painful.
2020-11-12 13:17:24 +0000 <jophish> heh, I'm probably not getting a mac again any time soon
2020-11-12 13:17:35 +0000 <angerman> your loss :p
2020-11-12 13:17:48 +0000 <Uniaika> that being said there is Rosetta right?
2020-11-12 13:17:51 +0000 <angerman> apple sg doesn't seem to want to sell M1 mac minis :-/
2020-11-12 13:17:56 +0000 <jophish> used one for quite a while, but coming back to Linux was always such a relief ;)
2020-11-12 13:18:06 +0000 <jophish> also the keyboard suck :)
2020-11-12 13:18:15 +0000 <angerman> did I say mac mini?
2020-11-12 13:18:55 +0000 <jophish> ah, keyboard is probably similar then
2020-11-12 13:20:29 +0000 <angerman> macOS to me is a glorified desktop environment to run terminals that are connected to linux machines 🙊
2020-11-12 13:20:33 +0000 <xerox_> angerman: grand
2020-11-12 13:21:25 +0000 <jophish> s/1000$ facebook machine/1000$ ssh machine/
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2020-11-12 13:21:59 +0000 <xerox_> angerman: how long did it take to build?
2020-11-12 13:22:17 +0000 <angerman> xerox_: sorry can't comment on that. Once I get my hands on a proper m1 mac mini, I can.
2020-11-12 13:22:28 +0000encod3(~encod3@45-154-157-94.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2020-11-12 13:22:31 +0000 <jophish> NDA?
2020-11-12 13:22:46 +0000 <angerman> DTKs come with limits.
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2020-11-12 13:23:11 +0000 <xerox_> ah ok
2020-11-12 13:23:17 +0000 <jophish> angerman: can you build me a ghc distribution starting now, upload it the second you are done
2020-11-12 13:23:38 +0000DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-11-12 13:23:58 +0000 <angerman> lol.
2020-11-12 13:24:17 +0000 <angerman> I'll just say this much: you can develop on ghc on apple arm machines :-)
2020-11-12 13:24:34 +0000 <angerman> without wanting to jump out of the window.
2020-11-12 13:24:40 +0000 <xerox_> I'm just hoping to develop *with* ghc, so that's good
2020-11-12 13:25:03 +0000 <angerman> well you've seen the early benchmarks I guess?
2020-11-12 13:25:11 +0000 <xerox_> nope!
2020-11-12 13:25:21 +0000 <angerman> most of your time developing in haskell is spent looking at the screen, not actually compiling software.
2020-11-12 13:25:25 +0000 <angerman> xerox_: macrumors.com
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2020-11-12 13:25:37 +0000 <xerox_> oh I thought you meant ghc specific benchmarks
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2020-11-12 13:29:46 +0000 <dminuoso> angerman: Oh dunno, that kind of depends on what project you're working on.
2020-11-12 13:30:21 +0000 <dminuoso> Depending on what you do with GHC, the feedback loop can be awfully slow there
2020-11-12 13:30:26 +0000 <dminuoso> (Working on GHC)
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2020-11-12 13:30:55 +0000 <angerman> dminuoso: yea, but xerox_ explicitly said he's developing *with* ghc :D
2020-11-12 13:31:20 +0000Franciman(~francesco@host-82-56-223-169.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-12 13:31:25 +0000 <angerman> xerox_: well they give you a machine to compare to. Is GHC fast enough on that machine? If the answer is yes, then it's likely fast enough on an apple silicon machine.
2020-11-12 13:31:51 +0000 <dminuoso> angerman: With the llvm backend, the new apple silicon should work out of the box, no?
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2020-11-12 13:32:02 +0000 <dminuoso> Or are you hinting at apple silicon support in the native backend?
2020-11-12 13:32:03 +0000 <angerman> almost.
2020-11-12 13:32:27 +0000 <angerman> there are some minor changes we need in the llvm backend primarily around configure logic.
2020-11-12 13:32:33 +0000toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.180.38)
2020-11-12 13:32:37 +0000 <angerman> trhe llvm pipeline is just very slow.
2020-11-12 13:32:55 +0000 <angerman> substantially so, that a NCG makes sense.
2020-11-12 13:34:21 +0000nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu)
2020-11-12 13:34:56 +0000 <xerox_> angerman: (:
2020-11-12 13:35:01 +0000hackagemagicbane 0.5.1 - A web framework that integrates Servant, RIO, EKG, fast-logger, wai-cli… https://hackage.haskell.org/package/magicbane-0.5.1 (myfreeweb)
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2020-11-12 15:16:47 +0000 <raichoo> Bumping this again here: We are sill looking for contributors for "Advent of Haskell" 2020. www.adventofhaskell.com Would be really cool to get a couple more people on board for this project. I know it's a close call ^^
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2020-11-12 15:43:15 +0000bscarlet(~benjamin@forest.greynode.net) ()
2020-11-12 15:44:37 +0000 <Franciman> Hi raichoo, unfortunately I think that haskell is the past, the future is going outside and enjoying the real world. That's why there should be an anti technocratic revolution spreading across the world
2020-11-12 15:44:39 +0000 <Franciman> but thanks
2020-11-12 15:44:43 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-12 15:44:50 +0000 <maerwald> :D
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2020-11-12 15:55:18 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@198.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net)
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2020-11-12 15:55:20 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2020-11-12 15:55:40 +0000 <zincy_> Franciman: It was but then 2020 happened
2020-11-12 15:56:05 +0000 <Franciman> damn, so haskell is the future again?
2020-11-12 15:56:07 +0000s00pcan(~chris@107.181.165.217) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-12 15:57:08 +0000 <zincy_> Anything that involves being a hermit is the future
2020-11-12 15:57:19 +0000 <frdg> I am having trouble with `stack exec` not being able to find a module that it should be able to find, yet I am able to compile and run my program. I cannot use GHCID because of this issue. Here is a full outline of the problem that I posted 4 days ago on SO:
2020-11-12 15:57:20 +0000 <frdg> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64738525/stack-can-not-find-a-local-module-that-it-should-be-a…
2020-11-12 15:57:39 +0000 <Franciman> :D
2020-11-12 15:57:45 +0000s00pcan(~chris@075-133-056-178.res.spectrum.com)
2020-11-12 15:57:51 +0000 <Franciman> ah, maerwald I wanted to ask you a few things about ghcup when you have some time to lose
2020-11-12 15:58:35 +0000 <raichoo> Anything that gives people a bit of fun over the holidays while being isolated.
2020-11-12 15:58:40 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: what is it?
2020-11-12 15:59:00 +0000 <maerwald> raichoo: so what changed compared to 2019? :p
2020-11-12 15:59:37 +0000 <Franciman> nothing really important, but have you made any further step towards the idea of implementing part of vabal?
2020-11-12 15:59:58 +0000 <maerwald> no practical achievements so far
2020-11-12 16:00:05 +0000bonvoyage[m](bonvoyageu@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qprbpxmnqsbkebca) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-11-12 16:00:10 +0000 <Franciman> because I wanted to ask you how you determine for each ghc what is the base it supports
2020-11-12 16:00:23 +0000 <Franciman> do you do it by hand, or you have some fancy script I could use?
2020-11-12 16:00:55 +0000 <maerwald> that's by hand and recorded: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/ghcup-0.0.3.yaml#L97
2020-11-12 16:01:05 +0000 <Franciman> arg
2020-11-12 16:01:13 +0000 <merijn> frdg: oh, I think I know :)
2020-11-12 16:01:27 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: it's static information anyway
2020-11-12 16:01:28 +0000 <merijn> frdg: Can you try replacing ~ with /home/whatever in your filepath?
2020-11-12 16:01:36 +0000 <maerwald> it doesn't change
2020-11-12 16:01:39 +0000 <frdg> sure
2020-11-12 16:01:48 +0000 <Franciman> yes, but ok I understand vabal is not used by anybody, but I keep forgetting to update them
2020-11-12 16:02:12 +0000 <merijn> Franciman: You mean you forget to relax your upperbound on base?
2020-11-12 16:02:30 +0000 <Franciman> yes
2020-11-12 16:02:38 +0000 <Franciman> and update vabal's metadata
2020-11-12 16:02:45 +0000 <merijn> Franciman: Let me introduce you to your saviour with regards to upperbounds :p
2020-11-12 16:02:49 +0000 <maerwald> lol
2020-11-12 16:02:56 +0000 <maerwald> < 10000
2020-11-12 16:03:04 +0000 <merijn> Franciman: https://packdeps.haskellers.com/feed?needle=paramtree
2020-11-12 16:03:04 +0000 <Franciman> lol
2020-11-12 16:03:30 +0000 <merijn> Franciman: (replace package name as needed) and get an RSS feed of out of date upperbounds (including base)
2020-11-12 16:03:45 +0000 <Franciman> thanks
2020-11-12 16:03:48 +0000 <Franciman> that's cool
2020-11-12 16:03:57 +0000 <Franciman> raichoo, no sorry, you're right
2020-11-12 16:04:15 +0000 <merijn> Franciman: As soon as one of you (direct) dependencies releases a version outside your current upperbound it appears in the RSS feed :)
2020-11-12 16:04:16 +0000 <Franciman> but the doctor said I can't stay sat down for more than 40 minutes in a row
2020-11-12 16:04:17 +0000 <frdg> merijn: same error
2020-11-12 16:04:23 +0000 <Franciman> that's what I meant, in a less pompous way
2020-11-12 16:04:27 +0000 <merijn> frdg: ah, then I dunno
2020-11-12 16:04:28 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: you also have RSI?
2020-11-12 16:04:43 +0000 <frdg> ill add that to my SO post though.
2020-11-12 16:05:05 +0000 <Franciman> yes, that one too
2020-11-12 16:05:17 +0000 <maerwald> the beauty of programming
2020-11-12 16:05:29 +0000 <Franciman> but also tendonitis in various parts of the arms
2020-11-12 16:05:34 +0000 <Franciman> and posture problems
2020-11-12 16:05:43 +0000 <monochrom> I have a cunning plan. Build a large keyboard on the floor. You walk to step on the keys to type.
2020-11-12 16:05:44 +0000 <Franciman> and circulatory issues to hands
2020-11-12 16:06:39 +0000 <maerwald> yeah, I bought 2 ergonomic keyboards, parts to replace the firmware/boards, all sorts of trackballs and wrist crap etc
2020-11-12 16:06:42 +0000 <monochrom> Although, this may be merely transfering hand RSI to leg-foot RSI.
2020-11-12 16:07:02 +0000 <maerwald> yeah, since I use a 3-foot pedal, my feet hurt
2020-11-12 16:07:15 +0000 <Franciman> maerwald, :<
2020-11-12 16:07:18 +0000 <maerwald> I think that's an improvement though
2020-11-12 16:07:20 +0000 <maerwald> :D
2020-11-12 16:07:29 +0000 <maerwald> feet you can just cut off and be done
2020-11-12 16:07:36 +0000 <Franciman> lol
2020-11-12 16:10:59 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdD7CgN5FGg
2020-11-12 16:11:15 +0000 <maerwald> it seems he recovered and didn't need surgery
2020-11-12 16:11:31 +0000 <maerwald> (I can't but stop wondering if he's an emacs user)
2020-11-12 16:12:40 +0000 <maerwald> I think ppl with heavy alt/ctrl key bindings are at higher risk
2020-11-12 16:13:17 +0000 <Franciman> thanks
2020-11-12 16:13:24 +0000 <Franciman> I do think that too
2020-11-12 16:13:26 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@76.217.43.73)
2020-11-12 16:13:42 +0000 <maerwald> my vim keybindings are very ctrl heavy :/
2020-11-12 16:13:42 +0000 <Franciman> at least you need to take some care, and presso ctrl/alt with the opposite hand
2020-11-12 16:13:48 +0000 <Franciman> press*
2020-11-12 16:14:19 +0000 <maerwald> yes, my problems got worse when I started using workman keyboard layout (similar to colemak)
2020-11-12 16:14:52 +0000 <maerwald> which focuses on finger rolling (same hand movements). dvorak is supposed to maximize alternating hands, so that might help you too
2020-11-12 16:16:29 +0000 <frdg> merijn: all of a sudden it just worked and I don't know why.
2020-11-12 16:16:57 +0000 <raichoo> Franciman: Sorry to hear that, I hope it'll get better?
2020-11-12 16:17:25 +0000 <frdg> merijn: maybe you were right. But I tried what you said at least 4 times and it didn't work.
2020-11-12 16:17:38 +0000 <Franciman> hm i see maerwald sorry to hear that
2020-11-12 16:17:39 +0000 <Franciman> it sux
2020-11-12 16:17:43 +0000 <Franciman> raichoo, thanks
2020-11-12 16:17:54 +0000 <Franciman> sorry i was a bit rought
2020-11-12 16:17:57 +0000 <Franciman> rough*
2020-11-12 16:18:11 +0000 <raichoo> Happens, don't worry.
2020-11-12 16:18:45 +0000 <maerwald> Franciman: but I do recommend Kinesis advantage 2 keyboard (at least if you have finger strain)
2020-11-12 16:19:02 +0000 <maerwald> the concave design makes a huge difference
2020-11-12 16:19:22 +0000 <maerwald> I wouldn't be able to type without it (and cbd)
2020-11-12 16:21:32 +0000 <Franciman> cool thanks, I keep it noted
2020-11-12 16:21:33 +0000 <frdg> merijn: I am perplexed but it had to have been the file path you suggested because I have been going at this for days and had not tried that. If you want the 50 bounty you can answer the question otherwise ill put the answer up in an hour or so.
2020-11-12 16:21:46 +0000 <Franciman> now sorry my time for computer is left :P
2020-11-12 16:21:48 +0000 <Franciman> thanks maerwald
2020-11-12 16:21:51 +0000 <Franciman> ttyl
2020-11-12 16:23:33 +0000 <merijn> frdg: Basically, bash doesn't expand ~ within '', and when stack exec invoke ghci that path is still not expanded. So it was just a wild guess that ghci does not perform ~ expansion (most programs don't, the shell usually handles that) :)
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2020-11-12 16:25:37 +0000 <frdg> I see. It all happened so fast but I think I might have opened a new eshell instance in emacs and tried again and that is why it didn't work at first. Thanks though.
2020-11-12 16:25:56 +0000Chi1thangoo(~Chi1thang@87.112.60.168)
2020-11-12 16:26:00 +0000hackagetracing 0.0.5.2 - Distributed tracing https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tracing-0.0.5.2 (mtth)
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2020-11-12 16:33:42 +0000 <frdg> I can't recreate this success in a regular terminal though. I am getting the same error as before. In a new instance of eshell it is also failing. wtf I really do not know what I did.
2020-11-12 16:34:48 +0000 <frdg> if I restart ghcid in the shell that is working then it continues to work.
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2020-11-12 16:37:14 +0000 <frdg> I can also get it to work with ~ in this shell
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2020-11-12 16:48:42 +0000 <frdg> I have solved the problem. If I run `ghcid -c 'stack exec ...` from within the directory that Main.hs is in it is able to find the module. If I start it from anywhere else it says it cannot find the module. The problem was not with ~ I don't think.
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2020-11-12 17:11:20 +0000 <glguy> maerwald: I've asked before but if you answered I missed it. Is there anything I can do to help ghcup 0.1.12 to get out of rc?
2020-11-12 17:11:34 +0000geekosaur(82659a09@host154-009.vpn.uakron.edu)
2020-11-12 17:11:47 +0000 <maerwald> glguy: it just has TUI improvements, I wanted to tackle a few other issues, but haven't gotten around it
2020-11-12 17:12:34 +0000 <maerwald> https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/issues/84
2020-11-12 17:13:22 +0000 <maerwald> so you can say this bindist works for ubuntu < 18.02
2020-11-12 17:13:25 +0000 <maerwald> or something
2020-11-12 17:14:30 +0000 <glguy> maerwald: But currently all you can say is that it works for Linux_Ubuntu in general?
2020-11-12 17:14:42 +0000jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.55.207)
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2020-11-12 17:15:41 +0000 <glguy> Oh, no. I see you already say different things about '16.04', '18.04' and unkonwn_versioning:
2020-11-12 17:15:53 +0000 <maerwald> glguy: yeah, we only have EQ
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2020-11-12 17:30:31 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-general 0.2.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-general functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-general-0.2.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 17:45:31 +0000 <maralorn> When cabal tries to find a valid build plan, does it try all possible flag constellation for all dependencies? Or does it only try the default flags of every dependency?
2020-11-12 17:45:39 +0000hekkaidekapus(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
2020-11-12 17:47:10 +0000 <int-e> maralorn: it tries toggling the automatic flags, but not the manual ones
2020-11-12 17:48:31 +0000hackagephonetic-languages-examples 0.4.2.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-examples functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-examples-0.4.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 18:31:30 +0000hackageuniqueness-periods-vector-examples 0.14.5.0 - Usage examples for the uniqueness-periods-vector series of packages https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uniqueness-periods-vector-examples-0.14.5.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-11-12 19:03:18 +0000 <kritzefitz> In parsec (string "a" >> mzero) `mplus` string "ab" behaves differently than mzero `mplus` string "ab". Does that violate the laws for mzero or am I misinterpreting the laws for mzero?
2020-11-12 19:03:34 +0000berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
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2020-11-12 19:06:17 +0000 <glguy> kritzefitz: I think you're misunderstanding the laws
2020-11-12 19:06:30 +0000 <glguy> because MonadPlus doesn't have very many
2020-11-12 19:06:52 +0000cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-12 19:06:52 +0000 <kritzefitz> I'm specifically talking about v >> mzero = mzero.
2020-11-12 19:06:55 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2020-11-12 19:07:33 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
2020-11-12 19:07:52 +0000 <glguy> I think parsec doesn't satisfy the laws as written in Haddock, but also that people often don't agree on how MonadPlus should actually behave
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2020-11-12 19:08:46 +0000 <glguy> IO also fails the laws as implemented there
2020-11-12 19:08:58 +0000 <kritzefitz> Good point
2020-11-12 19:09:08 +0000 <electricityZZZZ> is anyone here also in #rust? can i get a #rust invite?
2020-11-12 19:09:22 +0000jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.9.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2020-11-12 19:09:23 +0000 <glguy> electricityZZZZ: You're looking for ##rust
2020-11-12 19:09:43 +0000Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-12 19:09:53 +0000 <electricityZZZZ> oh wow ok freenode should change their error message
2020-11-12 19:10:14 +0000 <glguy> #rust automatically forwards to ##rust except you weren't logged in so you weren't allowed in
2020-11-12 19:10:27 +0000 <glguy> (because ##rust requires login for whatever reason)
2020-11-12 19:11:26 +0000 <electricityZZZZ> ok. yeah #rust on irc.mozilla had problems with haxxorz or something so they are a little more paranoid
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2020-11-12 19:22:56 +0000 <gtk> when i instance NFData and define the rnf function, what happens if I dont really evalute the value till normal form?
2020-11-12 19:23:06 +0000Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-11-12 19:23:18 +0000 <gtk> but WHNF instead?
2020-11-12 19:23:54 +0000 <jle`> then it will only evaluate to WHNF
2020-11-12 19:24:07 +0000 <monochrom> breaks a lot of people's hearts
2020-11-12 19:24:21 +0000 <monochrom> baby jesus cries
2020-11-12 19:24:33 +0000 <gtk> Then it would be against the will of NFData
2020-11-12 19:24:43 +0000 <gtk> isn't that a big sin?
2020-11-12 19:24:53 +0000 <monochrom> cardinal sin
2020-11-12 19:25:25 +0000 <Uniaika> most certainly
2020-11-12 19:26:05 +0000jneira(5127ac76@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.39.172.118)
2020-11-12 19:26:35 +0000 <monochrom> https://www.google.ca/search?q=cardinal+zin+zinfandel&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpuJSX3…
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2020-11-12 19:28:15 +0000 <monochrom> Actually I guess just https://www.google.com/search?q=cardinal+zin
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2020-11-12 19:30:01 +0000 <monochrom> Ah, add &tbm=isch for the images.
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2020-11-12 19:37:29 +0000 <koz_> :t any
2020-11-12 19:37:31 +0000 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool
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2020-11-12 20:01:01 +0000hackagepolysemy-vinyl 0.1.2.0 - Functions for mapping vinyl records in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-vinyl-0.1.2.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-11-12 20:41:10 +0000jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@104.140.53.251)
2020-11-12 20:43:52 +0000 <dminuoso> Mmm, I have a large code base that I need a quick feedback loop. How can I disable code generation in GHC to speed it up?
2020-11-12 20:45:13 +0000 <lortabac> -fno-code
2020-11-12 20:45:48 +0000 <dminuoso> Mmm, if I add that to cabal it propagates to dependencies it seems
2020-11-12 20:45:54 +0000 <dminuoso> and `primitive` fails to build
2020-11-12 20:47:00 +0000 <dminuoso> lortabac: Mmm, but I can get around that. Cheers, that's so much faster.
2020-11-12 20:47:05 +0000 <dminuoso> Feels like 5-10 times. :)
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2020-11-12 20:51:30 +0000kimumba(5fa8781e@95.168.120.30) ()
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2020-11-12 20:52:31 +0000hackageminizinc-process 0.1.4.0 - A set of helpers to call minizinc models. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/minizinc-process-0.1.4.0 (LucasDiCioccio)
2020-11-12 20:52:48 +0000 <sshine> dminuoso, so you just run type checker?
2020-11-12 20:52:56 +0000 <dminuoso> sshine: Yeah
2020-11-12 20:53:00 +0000 <sshine> why didn't I think of that.
2020-11-12 20:53:27 +0000 <dminuoso> This is 150 modules, and Im modifying a common dependency of them all...
2020-11-12 20:53:31 +0000 <sshine> most of the times I run GHC I just want to know if I made type errors.
2020-11-12 20:53:47 +0000 <geekosaur45> tbh I thought the typechecker was the slowest part of ghc these days
2020-11-12 20:53:47 +0000 <dminuoso> I think ghcid/hie do something similar
2020-11-12 20:53:48 +0000 <sshine> ah :) so you're really feeling it.
2020-11-12 20:53:58 +0000 <sshine> yes, they must.
2020-11-12 20:54:47 +0000 <koz_> Is Data.Text.span (effectively) a combination of Data.Text.takeWhile and Data.Text.dropWhile?
2020-11-12 20:55:10 +0000jmcarthur(~jmcarthur@104.140.53.251) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-12 20:55:48 +0000 <dminuoso> geekosaur45: From experience, not really. Degenerate projects seem to take a lot of time in the simplifier.
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2020-11-12 20:56:16 +0000 <dminuoso> At least most of them. It's of course not hard to write programs that take a long time to type check
2020-11-12 20:56:39 +0000 <dminuoso> As an example I frequently notice, megaparsec!
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2020-11-12 20:57:04 +0000 <sshine> koz_, it appears that the implementation is more low-level: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.4.0/docs/src/Data.Text.Internal.Private.html#span_ -- it resembles those of takeWhile/dropWhile -- are you asking if takeWhile/dropWhile would fuse to something equally efficient?
2020-11-12 20:57:22 +0000 <dminuoso> https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/17370
2020-11-12 20:57:49 +0000 <koz_> sshine: I'm asking if 'span pred foo == bimap (takeWhile pred) (dropWhile pred) (foo, foo)'
2020-11-12 20:58:00 +0000 <davean> geekosaur45: the optimizer is FAR slower than the type checker IME
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2020-11-12 20:58:53 +0000 <sshine> koz_, according to the haddock, it appears so.
2020-11-12 20:59:15 +0000 <koz_> sshine: Maybe I'm just bad at reading comprehension then, lol.
2020-11-12 20:59:16 +0000 <davean> geekosaur45: compare -O0 to -O2, and if you do -fno-code its faster yet again
2020-11-12 20:59:50 +0000 <sshine> koz_, 'takeWhile p' would be "the longest prefix (possibly empty)", and 'dropWhile p' would be "the remainder of the list".
2020-11-12 21:00:02 +0000Suntop1(~Suntop@139.28.218.148) ()
2020-11-12 21:00:02 +0000 <dminuoso> I guess its in the nature of the simplifier, because depending on code, it can blow up the Core size between passes *a lot*
2020-11-12 21:00:07 +0000 <dminuoso> And there's a lot of passes
2020-11-12 21:00:09 +0000 <koz_> Yeah, the key word there is 'prefix'.
2020-11-12 21:00:16 +0000 <dminuoso> (I think it defaults to 30 passes max?)
2020-11-12 21:00:19 +0000 <koz_> So yeah, just me being bad at reading comprehension.
2020-11-12 21:00:24 +0000 <monochrom> also "longest"
2020-11-12 21:00:34 +0000 <sshine> koz_, for Data.List,span, it even says "span p xs is equivalent to (takeWhile p xs, dropWhile p xs)" :)
2020-11-12 21:00:45 +0000 <koz_> sshine: Yeah, but Data.Text _doesn't_.
2020-11-12 21:00:52 +0000 <koz_> Which is probably part of what threw me.
2020-11-12 21:00:55 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-11-12 21:01:00 +0000 <sshine> koz_, ah. yeah.
2020-11-12 21:01:15 +0000 <dminuoso> I'm starting to burn already, so I thought "it could be cool to start writing this with continuations.. and maybe ContT would be nice too."
2020-11-12 21:01:16 +0000 <sshine> koz_, I think I read that on the inside of my skull. one should be careful of that.
2020-11-12 21:01:24 +0000 <dminuoso> Not even an hour and I cant read my own code anymore. :(
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2020-11-12 21:32:27 +0000 <shapr> Anyone building a hoogle server as a separate step from haddocks produced by CI?
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2020-11-12 21:34:19 +0000 <Uniaika> nope, not here
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2020-11-12 22:33:00 +0000hackageminizinc-process 0.1.4.1 - A set of helpers to call minizinc models. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/minizinc-process-0.1.4.1 (LucasDiCioccio)
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2020-11-12 22:42:53 +0000 <fendor> is there some global setting I can use to limit the memory usage of ghci?
2020-11-12 22:43:15 +0000 <fendor> so that every invocation of ghci has a memory limit
2020-11-12 22:45:17 +0000fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-65-31-113.rochester.res.rr.com)
2020-11-12 22:46:00 +0000 <Axman6> Yes, but it's quite complex, you need to write programs that use less memory :P
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2020-11-12 22:59:37 +0000 <fendor> Axman6, tell that to the students that write endless recursive functions :P
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2020-11-12 23:01:36 +0000 <Axman6> Hmm, at ANU we used to have a system which would play student's final assignments off against each other (I can't remember the game now), and I believe we had limits on execution time and memory usage
2020-11-12 23:03:08 +0000 <Axman6> jackdk: do you know anything about the thing I'm talking about? Or was it after/before your time?
2020-11-12 23:04:18 +0000 <fendor> the issue is, students can use the server for developing their solutions...
2020-11-12 23:04:30 +0000 <fendor> so I think I want to limit the memory of every ghci invocation on that server
2020-11-12 23:04:51 +0000 <fendor> I guess the limits of the user system should do that automagically?
2020-11-12 23:05:04 +0000 <fendor> iirc, you can configure the memory limit on a per user basis?
2020-11-12 23:05:27 +0000 <Axman6> I believe so, but I have no idea how
2020-11-12 23:05:38 +0000 <jackdk> Axman6: the versions I was working on were less sophisticated. The runner used System.timeout, the NFData class, and an IORef to enforce time limits on the program runtime
2020-11-12 23:05:52 +0000 <fendor> well, time to ask the sys admin. not my job after all
2020-11-12 23:06:00 +0000 <jackdk> sure this isn't an OS-level problem? I remember everyone crashing the student server the night before a concurrent systems assignment was due
2020-11-12 23:06:10 +0000 <jackdk> then they put in process limits
2020-11-12 23:06:19 +0000 <jackdk> fendor: yeah, I think that's a good idea
2020-11-12 23:07:05 +0000 <jackdk> https://github.com/ndmitchell/spaceleak might have some haskell-side ideas for fiddling with this
2020-11-12 23:07:19 +0000 <fendor> yeah, I agree, it should be solved on the os level. I just though, maybe there are some low haning fruit. But additionally, I just saw some students somehow installed hls on the server and use it for a remote vscode session.
2020-11-12 23:07:47 +0000 <fendor> I am not worrying about space leaks in particular, students write bad code, that is to be expected, but the server should not give them all the memory
2020-11-12 23:09:02 +0000 <jackdk> Yes, but space leaks -> eating memory, and the technique for catching them sooner is to bound the stack size that the rts is allowed to use. Perhaps that part is applicable to how students invoke GHCi
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2020-11-12 23:09:54 +0000 <fendor> maybe. Let's see whether we can limit the overall memory
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2020-11-12 23:16:46 +0000 <aldessa> hey, where can i get recursion puzzles? i thought it would be nice to have some puzzles for recursion schemes
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2020-11-12 23:50:11 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> fendor: When we have needs like yours this side, we handle it at the OS level by putting setting limits for every user.
2020-11-12 23:50:43 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> Ony a systemd-capable Linux, this will do:
2020-11-12 23:50:45 +0000jedws(~jedws@101.184.175.183) (Client Quit)
2020-11-12 23:51:14 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> systemd-run --user --scope -p 'MemoryHigh=XXXG' -p 'CPUQuota=YYY%' $argv
2020-11-12 23:52:35 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> Usually, ghc and ghci are symlinks to the previous command where `$argv = ghc(i)`.
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2020-11-12 23:54:06 +0000 <Axman6> to figure out cpu%, see Erlang (the person, not the language's) work on sharing resources :P
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