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| 2026-02-03 09:27:11 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
| 2026-02-03 08:14:47 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508db4c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2026-02-03 08:02:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's a few similarities but enough differences that it doesn't make a good mapping |
| 2026-02-03 07:43:18 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 07:41:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | edit: i have no position of authority on the matter - purely vibe |
| 2026-02-03 07:40:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <d​pn> i haven't thought much about rust <> haskell - but I've mentally always kinda thought traits were somewhat comparable to hs classes 🤔 |
| 2026-02-03 07:40:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <d​pn> Tranquil Ity: i haven't thought much about rust <> haskell - but I've mentally always kinda thought traits were somewhat comparable to hs classes :think |
| 2026-02-03 02:47:50 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> * do |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> At least that's how I did it (both of these) |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:23 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Or a separate VT |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:09 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> liskin: Embedded Wayland window within another Wayland compositor is the usual way |
| 2026-02-03 02:26:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | If you wanna adapt the reference Smithay compositor for that I can maybe help out, it should serve as a good base despite them wanting to drop it. |
| 2026-02-03 02:26:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> liskin: That makes sense |
| 2026-02-03 02:14:22 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-03 01:22:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> I think any such separation for xmonad would require a non-wayland private IPC connection |
| 2026-02-03 01:20:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> as to our requirements list, I think the best we'd do is go through the open issues (here and possibly on the old google issues, which is still there but read only) and collect and probably tag them |
| 2026-02-03 01:19:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> liskin: someone actually proposed separating them in general and a protocol for doing so. it was soundly thrashed for security reasons iirc |
| 2026-02-03 01:13:06 +0100 | <liskin> | Anyway, bedtime now. |
| 2026-02-03 01:11:57 +0100 | <liskin> | (I have some extra bits in place so even if I screw up and it crashes or goes into a loop, I can still recover - like dumping the state to tmpfs every minute and systemd auto-restarts) |
| 2026-02-03 01:10:10 +0100 | <liskin> | I wonder how people develop their Wayland compositors. I've always worked on the same xmonad that was running my main session. That kind of quick feedback loop is extremely valuable IMO |
| 2026-02-03 01:08:44 +0100 | <liskin> | My main motivations for the separation of compositor and wm was: latency (no Haskell garbage collection), and ease of development - being able to restart the wm without losing the session, like you can in X11 |
| 2026-02-03 01:06:01 +0100 | <liskin> | Would be nice to have a wiki page with these "requirements". |
| 2026-02-03 01:05:45 +0100 | <liskin> | Anyway, geekosaur, do we perhaps have a list of "things people expect from xmonad"? I certainly have an idea of what I expect from it, but I guess other people have very different needs. |
| 2026-02-03 01:04:39 +0100 | <liskin> | Compositor in Rust/C, talking to the Haskell window manager over some IPC. Could be Wayland protocol, could be whatever else |
| 2026-02-03 01:04:03 +0100 | <liskin> | But then my idea has always (a couple years) been to have a separate compositor and window manager. |
| 2026-02-03 01:03:33 +0100 | <liskin> | Actually I specifically preferred Smithay because of Rust. |
| 2026-02-03 00:04:53 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> (see also: electron apps) |
| 2026-02-03 00:03:48 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> (and let's face it, anything that complex written mostly in JS is going to have sucky responsiveness…) |
| 2026-02-03 00:03:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> that's the problem. they'd look even less responsive if double-buffered |
| 2026-02-02 23:53:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> (To be clear, browsers have never been responsive to me) |
| 2026-02-02 23:52:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | I'm curious, I should test if they just draw a buffer that's just a solid color and send that or smth |
| 2026-02-02 23:52:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Have you tested it on WL? |
| 2026-02-02 23:43:51 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> the browser has to do _something_ immediately |
| 2026-02-02 23:43:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> that leads to users complaining the system isn't responsive |
| 2026-02-02 23:35:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Unlike X11 |
| 2026-02-02 23:35:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Like, there's no space where the top-level is in a state of _visible but still drawing the first frame_, if there is that's a bug |
| 2026-02-02 23:28:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> I would say if the browser attaches a complete rendered frame but hasn't set a title then that's a bug |
| 2026-02-02 23:26:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> The buffer must contain a finished frame |
| 2026-02-02 23:26:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | (Or optionally send a syncobj to the compositor to wait on with the actual attaching) |
| 2026-02-02 23:26:07 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> You alloc a buffer, draw to it, attach it |
| 2026-02-02 23:25:39 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> I don't follow how that relates |
| 2026-02-02 23:24:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> browsers require that buffer to be set up before they can run the JS that might draw in them |
| 2026-02-02 23:24:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Presumably by then the title has already been set |
| 2026-02-02 23:24:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> So, at least one full frame to show |
| 2026-02-02 23:23:47 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Usually compositors don't show toplevels until they have a complete buffer attached |
| 2026-02-02 23:23:14 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> Tranquil Ity: it'd be true on wayland as well, you don't want the window manager moving the window around after it's been presented unless the user specifically requests it |
| 2026-02-02 23:22:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Ah |
| 2026-02-02 23:22:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> the early waymonad attempt was too crashy because of limitations in the early wlroots version it was using. I don't know what killed the later ones; the devs just went silent |
| 2026-02-02 23:22:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> geekosaur: You mean on X11? |