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| 2026-03-10 17:32:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <ijouw> Those programs (ab)use those same features that may be undesirable for security. |
| 2026-03-10 17:31:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <ijouw> There are other niche things like input visualisation, which are not supported by design (last I checked). |
| 2026-03-10 17:30:46 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and tbh wayland's pretty much right there, it's really hard to configure X11 to block password scraping for example |
| 2026-03-10 17:30:20 +0100 | <Guest59> | uh I didn't know that |
| 2026-03-10 17:29:56 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you could do that just as well with wayland, the problem there is about security |
| 2026-03-10 17:29:11 +0100 | <Guest59> | yeah but as a result of that u can do fun stuff like ssh -x |
| 2026-03-10 17:28:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (the really annoying thing is that wayland's design _can_ support that but I think still doesn't) |
| 2026-03-10 17:27:56 +0100 | <geekosaur> | rendering |
| 2026-03-10 17:27:55 +0100 | <geekosaur> | its whole architecture is designed for 1980s engineering workstations where every display had its own framebuffer card (see x11's Screen), so a really ugly hack is needed for multiple displays on PC-style video cards and that hack + ancient protocol means different resolutions on different displays can't be made to work without a protocol overhaul to plumb screen information through to places that currently can't get it, like client side font |
| 2026-03-10 17:26:06 +0100 | <Guest59> | I mostly really don't want to switch wm |
| 2026-03-10 17:25:31 +0100 | <Guest59> | yeah I mean x11 just works |
| 2026-03-10 17:25:26 +0100 | <geekosaur> | …that said, there are a bunch of things that can't be made to work right in x11 |
| 2026-03-10 17:25:10 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there are still a decent number of things that don't work in wayland yet |
| 2026-03-10 17:24:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | which is angering a lot of people, because not only are there many who don't want to move, there are still many who can't |
| 2026-03-10 17:24:09 +0100 | <Guest59> | idk what their problem is |
| 2026-03-10 17:23:51 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and have said so quite clearly |
| 2026-03-10 17:23:43 +0100 | <geekosaur> | they absolutely are |
| 2026-03-10 17:23:22 +0100 | <Guest59> | I think they're actively trying to get ppl to go to wayland for some reason |
| 2026-03-10 17:22:48 +0100 | <Guest59> | right, that's crazy for gtk to drop support already |
| 2026-03-10 17:22:42 +0100 | <geekosaur> | also some folks have already migrated to qt/kde because of past gtk support issues, and more may do so to retain compatibility |
| 2026-03-10 17:21:50 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but I imagine someone will fork it (again: MATE already did, IIRC, but it's stuck at gtk2 I think) |
| 2026-03-10 17:21:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the upcoming problem is that gtk is dropping x11 support, and that will affect everything based on it including firefox |
| 2026-03-10 17:20:28 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that level of code is almost always delegated to UI toolkits (gtk, qt) |
| 2026-03-10 17:19:49 +0100 | <Guest59> | yeah I'm just not really aware of the details, for example does Firefox have code specifically made for it to work for X11 or is that handled separately somehow? |
| 2026-03-10 17:18:22 +0100 | <Guest59> | like are most normal applications explicitly interacting with X11 somehow |
| 2026-03-10 17:18:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | X11 has a well defined protocol, anything that supports the protocol will work with a fork |
| 2026-03-10 17:17:37 +0100 | <Guest59> | like I'm not sure exactly what packages depends on it, like most packages should be pretty agnostic right? |
| 2026-03-10 17:17:34 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but there are some alternatives now |
| 2026-03-10 17:17:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I think the biggest problem with the xmonad-for-wayland efforts at this point is everyone's been focusing on wlroots as the bones of a compositor, but (a) that's never managed to go anywhere (b) I think we're finding out why the KDE folks considered adopting it and then dropped it |
| 2026-03-10 17:17:15 +0100 | <Guest59> | yeah I mean idk if long term using X11 is going to be viable |
| 2026-03-10 17:16:34 +0100 | <Guest59> | oh I did see that |
| 2026-03-10 17:16:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | no, not an xmonad fork, an X11 fork |
| 2026-03-10 17:14:21 +0100 | <Guest59> | what's the fork? isn't waymonad dead |
| 2026-03-10 17:14:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I am also monitoring some new developments in wayland haskell bindings (being discussed on the fp discord) that might get "xmonad-for-wayland" unstuck. we can hope |
| 2026-03-10 17:13:05 +0100 | <Guest59> | but at some point we might be forced to |
| 2026-03-10 17:12:59 +0100 | <Guest59> | Yeah I don't want to use wayland either |
| 2026-03-10 17:12:45 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and a lot of people who still can't use wayland for various reasons, no matter how badly deadrat wants to force them into it |
| 2026-03-10 17:12:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's already a maintained fork, although it's not quite trusted by a number of people. also there are enhancemeents to and wrappers for xwayland to enable x11 window managers |
| 2026-03-10 17:06:42 +0100 | <Guest59> | cause it seems like porting to wayland is pretty hard and X11 will stop being maintained at some point |
| 2026-03-10 17:06:03 +0100 | <Guest59> | does xmonad have a future? |
| 2026-03-10 17:05:38 +0100 | Guest59 | (~Guest59@31.205.126.187) |
| 2026-03-10 12:39:39 +0100 | gwentpl | (~gwpl@user/gwentpl) gwentpl |
| 2026-03-10 12:38:58 +0100 | gwentpl | (~gwpl@user/gwentpl) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-03-10 09:48:32 +0100 | thunderrd | (~thunderrd@113.53.55.165) thunderrd |
| 2026-03-10 09:35:43 +0100 | thunderrd | (~thunderrd@1.4.183.228) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2026-03-10 09:12:49 +0100 | jusa | (~jusa@kraa.fi) jusa |
| 2026-03-10 09:11:38 +0100 | jusa | (~jusa@kraa.fi) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-03-10 07:20:55 +0100 | vados | (~vados@46-133-184-159.mobile.vf-ua.net) |
| 2026-03-10 07:15:20 +0100 | vados | (~vados@46-133-51-198.mobile.vf-ua.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-03-10 05:06:12 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> customFloating is from X.U.NamedScratchpads |