| 2023-07-19 00:06:43 +0200 | <u8353v[m]> | <geekosaur> "well, some of them. if it..." <- no - i was told wayland is more secure than X11 |
| 2023-07-19 00:06:43 +0200 | <u8353v[m]> | but X11 just works! |
| 2023-07-19 00:06:43 +0200 | <u8353v[m]> | i want to know how can i harden it's security? |
| 2023-07-19 00:06:43 +0200 | <u8353v[m]> | or this comes down to hardening the OS? |
| 2023-07-19 00:08:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it needs a major server redesign, its security model is from the 1980s |
| 2023-07-19 00:08:32 +0200 | liskin[m] | (~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768) |
| 2023-07-19 00:10:56 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I mean, even the IPC it uses is insecure, AF_UNIX sockets the only security is uid-based filesystem access and INET sockets even less. a modern protocol would take advantage of dbus, polkit, etc. |
| 2023-07-19 00:12:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | any client with any kind of access to the server can observe any event not sent under a server grab, which means passwords can be sniffed by any process |
| 2023-07-19 00:15:59 +0200 | sagax | (~sagax_nb@user/sagax) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 00:16:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if you sit down and redesign X11 to fix its security flaws, multiscreen shortcomings, etc., you'll come out with something looking a lot like wayland-the-protocol |
| 2023-07-19 00:16:53 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's wayland-the-implementation that I don't trust… |
| 2023-07-19 00:19:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | well, I shouldn't say "don't trust", aside from stability. I question what they've done with what they have; it seems like wayland has failed to actually improve on X11 in many areas where it should easily be able to |
| 2023-07-19 00:19:23 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2023-07-19 00:22:38 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I also have doubts about how far additional security will get you when people don't make use of it |
| 2023-07-19 00:43:55 +0200 | <geekosaur> | Don't get me wrong — I'd love to see someone pick up and modernize X11. I just think the result will be Wayland. |
| 2023-07-19 02:23:20 +0200 | ml| | (~ml|@user/ml/x-5298235) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 02:36:29 +0200 | ml| | (~ml|@user/ml/x-5298235) |
| 2023-07-19 03:02:25 +0200 | hightower3 | (~hightower@213-202-64-66.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 2023-07-19 03:04:57 +0200 | hightower2 | (~hightower@141-136-175-55.dsl.iskon.hr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 03:47:38 +0200 | obimod | (~weechat@user/obimod) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 04:27:34 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i53870919.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 04:28:46 +0200 | td_ | (~td@i5387092E.versanet.de) |
| 2023-07-19 04:42:14 +0200 | terrorjack | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:87f8::) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2023-07-19 04:45:18 +0200 | terrorjack | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:c17:87f8::) |
| 2023-07-19 04:48:46 +0200 | thunderrd | (~thunderrd@183.182.111.104) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 04:52:33 +0200 | <absta[m]> | Oh do you think Wayland protocol of monolithic compositor is inevitable? |
| 2023-07-19 06:15:26 +0200 | geekosaur[c] | (sid609282@xmonad/geekosaur) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 06:19:22 +0200 | geekosaur[c] | (sid609282@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2023-07-19 08:09:23 +0200 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 2023-07-19 08:09:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and necessary |
| 2023-07-19 08:10:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | X11's compositor setup is an ugly hack that will always perform horribly and be weirdly unstable |
| 2023-07-19 08:11:06 +0200 | <geekosaur> | "the compositor is the display server" is the same thing as "the display server is the compositor" which is how it should have been to begin with |
| 2023-07-19 08:12:00 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but with X11's 1980s architecture it isn't possible |
| 2023-07-19 08:15:46 +0200 | mncheck | (~mncheck@193.224.205.254) |
| 2023-07-19 08:16:02 +0200 | <geekosaur> | the only real problem with wayland is it'll take 5-10 years to mature |
| 2023-07-19 08:17:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (well, the real real problem with it is monolithic gnome being rammed down everyone's throats, but that's rh/gnome, not something required by wayland) |
| 2023-07-19 08:47:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I suspect what will happen is gnome and maybe kde will use their own monoliths and everyone else will standardize on wlroots or similar; in fact it's already happening |
| 2023-07-19 08:50:10 +0200 | <geekosaur> | (and indeed I just checked and KDE seems to be moving to wlroots) |
| 2023-07-19 08:51:28 +0200 | <geekosaur> | so in the end wlroots is likely to become a more traditional display server, with the compositor baked in because it needs to be tight up with the low level display drivers to work well |
| 2023-07-19 08:52:19 +0200 | <geekosaur> | and KDE, Sway, Enlightenment, and presumably some form of xmonad among others will use it |
| 2023-07-19 09:00:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | what I hope is that standardization will see something usable in manageHooks to come back; currently gnome doesn't use it so nobody implements it |
| 2023-07-19 10:56:38 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2023-07-19 12:46:05 +0200 | <absta[m]> | I thought gnome went that way because of Wayland, not the other way around ;P |
| 2023-07-19 12:47:08 +0200 | <absta[m]> | It makes sense how compositor and display server is tied together, but I am yet to see why window management and various functionalities like taskbar would be tied up to the compositor. Wish wlroots would become a proper compositor! |
| 2023-07-19 13:10:07 +0200 | tv | (~tv@user/tv) (Quit: derp) |
| 2023-07-19 13:13:36 +0200 | tv | (~tv@user/tv) |
| 2023-07-19 13:30:22 +0200 | obimod | (~weechat@user/obimod) |
| 2023-07-19 14:11:30 +0200 | tv1 | (~tv@user/tv) |
| 2023-07-19 14:11:32 +0200 | tv | (~tv@user/tv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 16:04:47 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I thought it was |
| 2023-07-19 16:05:11 +0200 | <geekosaur> | wlroots is the compositor component of sway but has been adopted by a number of other wayland window managers |
| 2023-07-19 16:05:26 +0200 | unclechu | (~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354) |
| 2023-07-19 16:06:22 +0200 | <geekosaur> | window management doesn't need to be directly tied to the compositor; it wants better integration than X11 offers but that's because it's not part of the window system core / the display driver |
| 2023-07-19 17:16:10 +0200 | gar[m] | (~randyorto@2001:470:69fc:105::3:85fa) |
| 2023-07-19 17:19:58 +0200 | <gar[m]> | Can I open certain sites on opening browser on a particular workspace and login to them using selenium with xmonad |
| 2023-07-19 17:21:34 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I would expect yes, although you would need to do some work |
| 2023-07-19 17:22:16 +0200 | <geekosaur> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/webdriver may be of interest |
| 2023-07-19 18:10:12 +0200 | liskin[m] | (~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-19 18:37:32 +0200 | unclechu | (~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2023-07-19 19:30:33 +0200 | jeeeun | (~jeeeun@78.40.148.178) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2023-07-19 19:35:58 +0200 | jeeeun | (~jeeeun@78.40.148.178) |
| 2023-07-19 20:02:43 +0200 | scrungus | (~scrungus@70.24.87.181) |
| 2023-07-19 20:03:44 +0200 | <scrungus> | Does anyone here use window swallowing? I have this issue where when I launch an application through dmenu it swallows whatever terminal window happened to be focused |
| 2023-07-19 20:04:00 +0200 | liskin[m] | (~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768) |
| 2023-07-19 20:04:14 +0200 | unclechu | (~unclechu@2001:470:69fc:105::354) |
| 2023-07-19 20:07:46 +0200 | scrungus | (~scrungus@70.24.87.181) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2) |
| 2023-07-19 20:12:54 +0200 | scrungus | (~scrungus@70.24.87.181) |
| 2023-07-19 20:17:46 +0200 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2023-07-19 20:17:46 +0200 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2023-07-19 20:17:49 +0200 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2023-07-19 20:19:17 +0200 | xmonadtrack | (~xmonadtra@user/geekosaur/bot/xmonadtrack) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2023-07-19 20:36:39 +0200 | scrungus | (~scrungus@70.24.87.181) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2) |
| 2023-07-19 20:41:28 +0200 | xmonadtrack | (~xmonadtra@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) |
| 2023-07-19 20:41:28 +0200 | xmonadtrack | (~xmonadtra@069-135-003-034.biz.spectrum.com) (Changing host) |
| 2023-07-19 20:41:28 +0200 | xmonadtrack | (~xmonadtra@user/geekosaur/bot/xmonadtrack) |
| 2023-07-19 23:19:40 +0200 | ft | (~ft@p3e9bc856.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |