2022/07/28

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2022-07-28 13:29:30 +0200 <Solid> https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-9-2-4-released/4851
2022-07-28 13:29:42 +0200liskin[m](~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768)
2022-07-28 13:29:49 +0200 <Solid> This includes the fix for our issue (#21708) \o/
2022-07-28 14:13:37 +0200 <liskin> Solid: how's your covid so far?
2022-07-28 14:14:46 +0200liskinmanaged to order furniture this night, so our new home will hopefully stop taking all my free time in like a week or so
2022-07-28 14:39:29 +0200benin04(~benin@2401:4900:2320:8d1e:64fa:951e:c1ff:936a)
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2022-07-28 15:16:48 +0200 <Solid> liskin: getting better day by day
2022-07-28 15:17:01 +0200 <Solid> maybe I can actually start working again next week
2022-07-28 15:18:34 +0200 <liskin> Solid: oh, so you're having it worse than a common cold :-(
2022-07-28 15:20:13 +0200 <geekosaur> apparently BA.5 is doing that, yeh
2022-07-28 15:31:10 +0200steve(~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net)
2022-07-28 15:32:47 +0200 <alternateved> I still did not fully regain taste or smell
2022-07-28 15:33:12 +0200 <alternateved> And my fiance did regain smell but it became weird, distorted
2022-07-28 15:33:56 +0200arst(~arst@206.84.228.0)
2022-07-28 15:34:57 +0200arstarstarstarstarst
2022-07-28 15:35:08 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> test
2022-07-28 15:35:16 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> can any one read this?
2022-07-28 15:35:23 +0200 <alternateved> Yup
2022-07-28 15:36:03 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> ohh hey! I bought a laptop yesterday, and was thinking to use xmonad. Any recommendation for distro? I use endeavour on pc with i3.
2022-07-28 15:40:29 +0200 <alternateved> Endeavour is rather fine. But I think in the long term it would be better if you'd use cabal or stack for installing xmonad
2022-07-28 15:41:33 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> whats cabal or stack?
2022-07-28 15:41:44 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> package manager?
2022-07-28 15:41:46 +0200 <alternateved> Arch tends to break Haskell packages quite often because of dynamic linking
2022-07-28 15:42:24 +0200 <geekosaur> you have to be very careful with pacman upgrades, in partocular, or you won't be able to log in afterward
2022-07-28 15:42:33 +0200 <alternateved> https://xmonad.org/INSTALL.html#build-using-stack
2022-07-28 15:42:42 +0200 <geekosaur> (xmonad --recompile or mod-q *before* exiting your session)
2022-07-28 15:42:42 +0200 <alternateved> stack and cabal are build tools for Haskell
2022-07-28 15:43:28 +0200 <geekosaur> fwiw I use cabal, most of the other folks here use stack
2022-07-28 15:44:06 +0200 <alternateved> also cabal, with some additional sauce
2022-07-28 15:44:22 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> I have never owned a laptop before, nor do I know how to take care of it (eg battery, drivers etc). which distro would you recommend which takes care of all this.
2022-07-28 15:45:58 +0200 <geekosaur> I use ubuntu, and installed MATE and use xmonad as its window manager. this is a bit involved however, as ubuntu really wants you to use gnome instead
2022-07-28 15:46:16 +0200 <geekosaur> but it means I can leave most of the management to MATE services
2022-07-28 15:46:30 +0200 <alternateved> I think Fedora, openSUSE, Ubuntu are rather standard choices for that
2022-07-28 15:47:07 +0200 <alternateved> usually you would rather want full Desktop Environment (DE), since it takes care of all things that you mentioned
2022-07-28 15:47:58 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> ohh okay thank you!
2022-07-28 15:48:05 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> have a good day!
2022-07-28 15:48:05 +0200 <alternateved> some DEs allow for switching its window manager with external one -> this is the route that geekosaur went
2022-07-28 15:48:18 +0200 <alternateved> but it might not be trivial to do so
2022-07-28 15:48:35 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> ill check out fedora, seems interesting and i have never used wayland
2022-07-28 15:49:10 +0200 <alternateved> do realize that you won't be able to use XMonad with Wayland
2022-07-28 15:52:35 +0200benin0(~benin@183.82.26.87) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2022-07-28 15:53:57 +0200 <arstarstarstarst> ohh!
2022-07-28 15:56:08 +0200benin0(~benin@183.82.30.242)
2022-07-28 15:56:46 +0200arstarstarstarst(~arst@206.84.228.0) (Quit: Connection closed)
2022-07-28 16:27:28 +0200Hp2k(~Hp2k@120.188.66.100)
2022-07-28 16:28:54 +0200Hp2k(~Hp2k@120.188.66.100) (Client Quit)
2022-07-28 17:04:41 +0200 <Solid> liskin: yeah it's a bit worse I reckon (I haven't had a cold in so long :D)
2022-07-28 17:04:52 +0200 <Solid> and I haven'thad all of the bad stuff like no sense of smell/taste or stuff like that
2022-07-28 17:05:12 +0200 <Solid> just a fever and other cold-like symptoms, so I'm not complaining
2022-07-28 17:09:43 +0200liskinjust taught urxvt to automatically switch fonts based on whether its current xinerama screen is hidpi or not \o/
2022-07-28 17:11:11 +0200 <liskin> since in today's world one rarely needs anything else than a terminal and a browser, that means my setup works fairly well without any need for fractional scaling or any other works-only-with-wayland things \o/
2022-07-28 17:11:29 +0200 <liskin> should document it and blog about it I guess :-/
2022-07-28 17:13:45 +0200 <alternateved> I had a fever for a week and lost sense of smell/taste after that week, weirdly enough
2022-07-28 17:14:36 +0200geekosaurand his sister still haven't gotten covid for some reason
2022-07-28 17:15:36 +0200 <alternateved> I hope it won't be anything more serious than a cold-like symptoms
2022-07-28 17:16:48 +0200 <Solid> liskin: should definitely blog about it I think, stuff like that is always of interest to people
2022-07-28 17:17:07 +0200 <Solid> n.b.: I thought fractional scaling was X11 only at this point and that's one of the big things wayland is still missing?
2022-07-28 17:20:27 +0200 <liskin> Solid: yeah, I was actually quite suprised it wasn't done already (I could have missed something but I googled for it first)
2022-07-28 17:20:42 +0200 <liskin> so definitely worth writing about
2022-07-28 17:20:54 +0200 <liskin> not sure about fractional scaling and X11/Wayland
2022-07-28 17:21:44 +0200 <liskin> I was under the impression that for mixed-dpi setups where fonts need to be rendered at different dpis based on Window position, Wayland is required
2022-07-28 17:23:01 +0200 <liskin> someone told me there's some code in GNOME or gtk where windows get scaled 2× but mixed-dpi aware apps (gtk) can tell the compositor not to scale a specific window when that window is being natively rendered for the correct dpi
2022-07-28 17:23:34 +0200 <liskin> so when a window is moved between lo/hidpi screens, everything looks good
2022-07-28 17:23:58 +0200 <liskin> and mixed-dpi-unaware apps are upscaled or downscaled, so they look horrible
2022-07-28 17:24:05 +0200 <liskin> haven't seen that in practice though
2022-07-28 17:24:22 +0200 <liskin> Windows definitely does this
2022-07-28 17:24:53 +0200 <liskin> and yeah, fractional scaling is a related but different concept
2022-07-28 17:25:53 +0200 <liskin> in my case, I would indeed need it, as I only use 1.5× scale on the 4k
2022-07-28 17:26:05 +0200 <geekosaur> X11 has no way to do screen-aware font rendering (at least client-side; the APIs lack a display parameter)
2022-07-28 17:26:08 +0200 <liskin> but I'm completely fine with no scaling whatsoever and just dynamic font change adustments
2022-07-28 17:26:30 +0200 <liskin> geekosaur: well one can do all sorts of hacks…
2022-07-28 17:26:45 +0200 <liskin> actually not
2022-07-28 17:26:54 +0200 <geekosaur> depends on the app
2022-07-28 17:27:17 +0200 <geekosaur> point being the app has to know and do the hacks, because the APIs don't
2022-07-28 17:27:40 +0200 <liskin> you'd need to render an image of a different size than the window
2022-07-28 17:28:10 +0200 <liskin> you can't just ask the compositor to draw the window twice its size, because of the mouse pointer and other stuff
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2022-07-28 18:00:44 +0200liskin[m](~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
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2022-07-28 19:40:37 +0200 <geekosaur> mouse pointer doesn't seem like it should be a problem, as it's overlaid on top?
2022-07-28 19:40:52 +0200liskin[m](~liskinmat@2001:470:69fc:105::768)
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2022-07-28 20:21:36 +0200 <liskin> geekosaur: yeah but it's the x server who decides where click events are routed
2022-07-28 20:21:56 +0200 <liskin> if the compositor draws the window at twice the size, those events will be wrong
2022-07-28 20:23:49 +0200 <geekosaur> but as far as the server/compositor is concerned a mouse pointer is 1x1
2022-07-28 20:23:57 +0200 <geekosaur> the rest just ,makes it visible to the user
2022-07-28 20:28:25 +0200 <Hash> multihead xmonad is pissing me off.
2022-07-28 20:28:28 +0200 <Hash> seriously.
2022-07-28 20:28:44 +0200 <geekosaur> what's going wrong?
2022-07-28 20:28:51 +0200 <Hash> If somehow a monitor cable becomes unplugged if I'm cleaning, it moves all my windows to the other monitor
2022-07-28 20:29:02 +0200 <Hash> I have to spend 15 fucking minutes moving my windos back to the workspaces they were on
2022-07-28 20:29:22 +0200 <Hash> :(
2022-07-28 20:29:26 +0200 <geekosaur> o.O that should not be xmonad behavior, since it has a workspace per monitor
2022-07-28 20:29:34 +0200 <Hash> Yeah, peculiar, eh?
2022-07-28 20:29:40 +0200 <geekosaur> so it should just hide the workspace that was on that monitor
2022-07-28 20:30:06 +0200 <Hash> I used KDE desktop but not a desktop, but just apps/panels, and Xmonad as WM.
2022-07-28 20:30:27 +0200 <Hash> Then again KDE doesn't play well with popping windows in Xmonad etc.
2022-07-28 20:30:37 +0200 <geekosaur> that may still be KDE behavior. KDE's kinda particular about such things
2022-07-28 20:30:40 +0200 <Hash> So I have to select the window, then hit my KDE app start button, and the window shows up.
2022-07-28 20:30:45 +0200 <Hash> Otherwise it's just desktop background
2022-07-28 20:30:52 +0200 <evilop> kde is just broken with >1 screen
2022-07-28 20:30:57 +0200 <Hash> :(
2022-07-28 20:31:07 +0200 <Hash> Yeah, previously for years, I had a custom xorg.conf
2022-07-28 20:31:11 +0200 <geekosaur> check for a displays applet and uncheck any entry about moving windows when a monitor is disconnected
2022-07-28 20:31:19 +0200 <Hash> 6 monitors, custom xinerama config, nothing was issue.
2022-07-28 20:31:29 +0200 <evilop> they finally got a "primary screen" toggle for wayland, but it doesn
2022-07-28 20:31:33 +0200 <Hash> Now I'm using nouveau driver and xrandr without xorg.conf
2022-07-28 20:31:35 +0200 <evilop> 't actually work right
2022-07-28 20:31:39 +0200 <Hash> Ahh
2022-07-28 20:31:46 +0200 <geekosaur> this won't be window manager, it'll be an applet listening for XRandR monitor change events
2022-07-28 20:31:52 +0200 <Hash> Hmm
2022-07-28 20:31:53 +0200 <evilop> so when your screen wakes up from dpms suspend, stuff still breaks horribly
2022-07-28 20:33:41 +0200 <Hash> https://i.imgur.com/q5HHpv1.jpg
2022-07-28 20:33:56 +0200 <Hash> https://i.imgur.com/TRMx7pJ.jpg
2022-07-28 20:34:06 +0200 <Hash> Back few years ago 2016 etc.
2022-07-28 20:34:13 +0200 <Hash> I used a custom xorg.conf
2022-07-28 20:34:27 +0200 <Hash> Now the nvidia driver is legacy and they dont' support new kernels, so nouveau is the driver to use
2022-07-28 20:34:45 +0200 <Hash> and that one has auto config with xrandr, so no xorg.conf is needed, and it's doing goofy things.
2022-07-28 20:35:38 +0200 <geekosaur> my video driver (intel) has always done goody things on monitor plug/unplug, I've given up and just rebooted when doing that
2022-07-28 20:35:43 +0200 <geekosaur> *goofy
2022-07-28 20:35:54 +0200 <Hash> Yeah, I thought about that just now before talking here
2022-07-28 20:36:03 +0200 <Hash> But then I have lots of services/vms, can't just reboot. :(
2022-07-28 20:36:24 +0200 <geekosaur> like suddenly I have only the bottom half of the screen on the internal panel visible
2022-07-28 20:37:31 +0200 <geekosaur> well, yes, and I prefer just leaving the monitors as they are as a result. but the system is "hold the power button until it dies" if I connect/remove a monitor, so…
2022-07-28 20:38:28 +0200 <Hash> Damn
2022-07-28 20:38:34 +0200 <geekosaur> maybe I'll play with the rescreen hook at some point and see if explicit xrandr commands will let me get things back into usable shape
2022-07-28 20:48:40 +0200 <Hash> I have to type up 3 papers in the next 3 days. I can do it!
2022-07-28 20:48:42 +0200 <Hash> See ya
2022-07-28 20:48:54 +0200 <alternateved> autorandr with rescreen hook works really well
2022-07-28 20:55:23 +0200 <geekosaur> assuming your driver does
2022-07-28 20:55:41 +0200 <geekosaur> mine leaves the screen in weird states, so I'm not at all sure I can recover it with xrandr
2022-07-28 21:30:01 +0200chomwitt(~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc00:5a00:7d31:dffe:9d62:f2ae)
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2022-07-28 21:56:42 +0200coco(~coco@212-51-146-199.fiber7.init7.net)
2022-07-28 22:15:55 +0200 <liskin> oh, you're still on intel instead of modesetting?
2022-07-28 22:16:06 +0200 <liskin> that thing hasn't been getting any updates in years
2022-07-28 22:17:20 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> I'm on whatever the default is, which from Xorg.0.log appears to be intel
2022-07-28 22:18:24 +0200 <geekosaur[m]> Not sure what it takes on Ubuntu to use modesetting
2022-07-28 22:20:24 +0200 <liskin> uninstall xserver-xorg-video-intel maybe
2022-07-28 22:29:13 +0200 <geekosaur> Xorg.0.log is loading modesetting but it's not 100% clear if that's what is recognizing my Intel chipset
2022-07-28 22:29:34 +0200 <geekosaur> if it is then it's the guilty party in monitor plugging/unplugging not working right
2022-07-28 22:35:58 +0200 <liskin> hm
2022-07-28 22:36:33 +0200 <liskin> might be the kernel's i915 driver fault then
2022-07-28 22:36:48 +0200 <liskin> it's been fairly reliable here lately, but there used to be loads of issues in the past
2022-07-28 22:37:52 +0200 <geekosaur> what I know for certain is this has been happening for years, across 3 computers all with Intel i9xx video
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2022-07-28 23:36:44 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-wdston4533w-grc-02-142-113-160-8.dsl.bell.ca)
2022-07-28 23:48:24 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-wdston4533w-grc-02-142-113-160-8.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2022-07-28 23:49:36 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-wdston4533w-grc-02-142-113-160-8.dsl.bell.ca)
2022-07-28 23:56:07 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@bras-base-wdston4533w-grc-02-142-113-160-8.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2022-07-28 23:59:21 +0200alternateved(~user@staticline-31-183-144-54.toya.net.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)