IRCBrowse

2021/04/28

2021-04-28 00:00:41 +0200Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-b547-c3a9-933c-ab1d.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-28 00:00:54 +0200 <Rembane> lechner: That's not Haskell, that's Purescript. There is an excellent Purescript channel on the functional programming Slack. I recommend asking your question there instead.
2021-04-28 00:01:06 +0200AlleriaGuest25703
2021-04-28 00:01:20 +0200zardoz2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252) (Quit: http://www.okay.uz/ (Session timeout))
2021-04-28 00:02:16 +0200 <lechner> unfortunately, my browser does not support Slack but I'll ask on IRC
2021-04-28 00:02:33 +0200 <lechner> monochrom: i see, sorry i am a volunteer myself
2021-04-28 00:03:45 +0200 <lechner> to be honest, i was a bit embarrassed to ask elementary questions (if there is such a thing in haskell) over there
2021-04-28 00:06:25 +0200 <lechner> if i were you folks, though, i would adopt PureScript as the ugly duckling. on a node server, which has been called the next PHP, the type safety it provides is a category killer hands down
2021-04-28 00:07:20 +0200 <monochrom> But I don't use a node server.
2021-04-28 00:07:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 00:08:17 +0200 <lechner> your clients may but they can't refactor safely on any project with more tha 500 lines
2021-04-28 00:09:13 +0200 <c_wraith> purescript is a different language with different semantics.
2021-04-28 00:09:17 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:c1b6:8c92:c92d:e10a)
2021-04-28 00:09:21 +0200 <c_wraith> Using it is more like using javascript than haskell
2021-04-28 00:09:48 +0200 <c_wraith> (because you can never forget it is javascript underneath)
2021-04-28 00:09:52 +0200 <monochrom> For now, I speak for my clients, too.
2021-04-28 00:10:12 +0200 <monochrom> But I am not closed to future possibilities whatsoever.
2021-04-28 00:10:16 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwoslwzxzqzjzamu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-28 00:10:28 +0200 <yushyin> lechner: https://www.purescript.org/ see 'Community' down below
2021-04-28 00:11:07 +0200dinciorip(~dincio@5.171.80.13) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-28 00:11:10 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-04-28 00:11:24 +0200 <monochrom> I don't think I can find the line of code that the error message refers to.
2021-04-28 00:12:04 +0200 <lechner> monochrom: it's 115 but i got your message https://dpaste.org/T9bg#L115
2021-04-28 00:12:24 +0200dhil(~dhil@80.208.56.181) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-28 00:12:50 +0200 <monochrom> The error message mentions "discard". I can't find "discard".
2021-04-28 00:13:01 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:13:44 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:c1b6:8c92:c92d:e10a) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:14:13 +0200 <lechner> i think that's the query result. it probably is too hard with a module you do not know https://pursuit.purescript.org/packages/purescript-postgresql-client/3.0.2 https://github.com/rightfold/purescript-postgresql-client
2021-04-28 00:14:31 +0200 <lechner> there are too many types you are not familiar with. i get it
2021-04-28 00:14:38 +0200 <monochrom> Well, I don't know how to bridge between HandlerM and ExceptT PGError Aff anyway.
2021-04-28 00:14:45 +0200 <lechner> in fact, i have the same problem
2021-04-28 00:15:01 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:15:09 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-28 00:16:51 +0200 <lechner> no, the problem is that i added lines 111-114 that brought in the monad from line 64. without them everything works, except there is no SQL query :(
2021-04-28 00:16:52 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:18:02 +0200 <lechner> i really should talk to the Purescript folks. i did not mean to impose and would rather preserve my goodwill here
2021-04-28 00:18:23 +0200 <monochrom> Actually, is this simply a matter of doing your "send" outside "withConnection"?
2021-04-28 00:18:47 +0200 <lechner> i think so
2021-04-28 00:19:03 +0200 <monochrom> Or outside "withTransaction", I don't know which.
2021-04-28 00:21:02 +0200 <lechner> i can scrap the transaction for now. the idea came from here (one page down) https://github.com/rightfold/purescript-postgresql-client#usage
2021-04-28 00:21:10 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.126.111) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 00:21:23 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.126.111)
2021-04-28 00:21:30 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-28 00:21:45 +0200 <lechner> the other issue with #purescript was that server-side Purescript is officialy not supported, but i think that's the big future for them
2021-04-28 00:23:06 +0200 <monochrom> Indeed I would think that updating or outputting a web page shouldn't happen until after a DB transaction finishes (so you know it is a success and you are not in the middle of possible retries, rollbacks, race conditions.
2021-04-28 00:24:05 +0200clathomas(ad4839b3@pool-173-72-57-179.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-28 00:24:29 +0200 <clathomas> Hello! I have a quick noob-level efficiency question.
2021-04-28 00:24:49 +0200 <clathomas> Why does ` foldl' (+) 0 [1..n] ` not use a constant amount of memory (in ghci) ? Everything I read says that foldl' should evaluate as it goes down the list, so the only space needed should be for the sum. But memory increases (according to `:set +s` in ghci) as n increases.
2021-04-28 00:24:52 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:25:06 +0200 <lechner> monochrom: it's just a simple SELECT, and can put it in later. my issue is i am completely in over my head rewriting my little website lintian.debian.net in haskell and purescript.
2021-04-28 00:25:11 +0200 <monochrom> Note: "after the transaction finishes" ≠ "the last task inside the transaction"
2021-04-28 00:25:38 +0200letmein(~letmein@c-71-59-221-7.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:26:06 +0200 <lechner> i just discovered haskell six months ago, and that math major heart jumped
2021-04-28 00:26:18 +0200 <int-e> clathomas: +s reports allocations, not memory residency.
2021-04-28 00:26:50 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-04-28 00:27:14 +0200 <int-e> clathomas: and without optimizations, the list and its elements are allocated... and consumed by foldl' as the sum is computed, so all that stuff becomes garbage immediately.
2021-04-28 00:27:21 +0200 <clathomas> int-e: got it, thanks! What is a good way to see "memory residency" ? (Is that the technical term to google for?)
2021-04-28 00:27:42 +0200 <int-e> clathomas: with optimizations, ghc will (usually) eliminate the allocations as well
2021-04-28 00:27:43 +0200 <monochrom> I run htop to watch memory residency.
2021-04-28 00:28:44 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 00:29:17 +0200neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-28 00:29:22 +0200 <int-e> clathomas: I don't know of a convenient way for ghci (monochrom's suggestion may well be the best way). there's +RTS -s which reports "maximum residency" for compiled programs but really doesn't work well for ghci.
2021-04-28 00:29:35 +0200safinaskar(~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-04-28 00:30:02 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 00:30:04 +0200 <monochrom> Sometimes I compile to exe and use "+RTS -s" too, but it only does sampling, not complete monitoring. OK my htop trick gives even fewer samples.
2021-04-28 00:30:26 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-28 00:31:05 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 00:31:22 +0200 <int-e> Right, we may miss a brief spike in residency with +RTS -s.
2021-04-28 00:31:46 +0200 <monochrom> Then again, "+RTS -s" gives its report after normal termination only. For a long-running program I go htop.
2021-04-28 00:32:49 +0200 <monochrom> You can use "+RTS -s" on ghci, which measures ghci itself, which is 1% your own code and 99% ghci's own startup cost, which is still something, but you have to quit before you see the report.
2021-04-28 00:33:54 +0200 <int-e> for giggles you can try `ghc +RTS -S`
2021-04-28 00:35:14 +0200 <clathomas> thanks! Looking into both options. Is there an option for making ghci optimize your files ? `-O2` didn't seem to work (at least with `stack ghci`)
2021-04-28 00:35:32 +0200 <monochrom> No.
2021-04-28 00:36:08 +0200 <geekosaur> ghci is an interpreter, what good would optimization do?
2021-04-28 00:36:09 +0200 <monochrom> Yes but very long story, virtually like no.
2021-04-28 00:36:45 +0200 <monochrom> https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#loading-compiled-code is the long story.
2021-04-28 00:37:04 +0200 <geekosaur> I suppose there is -fobject-code -O2 but then you lose most of the point of ghci
2021-04-28 00:37:26 +0200 <clathomas> geekosaur: I am running monte-carlo type simulations based on (fairly simple) combinations of library functions I've written.
2021-04-28 00:38:10 +0200jrm2(~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm)
2021-04-28 00:38:24 +0200 <clathomas> I suppose I want to package up my library so I can optimize and then import ?
2021-04-28 00:38:40 +0200 <geekosaur> probably
2021-04-28 00:39:32 +0200 <solidus-river> DigitalKiwi: sorry I had to run earlier, thats the book :)
2021-04-28 00:39:37 +0200 <monochrom> Oh and the doc there still has this omission. -c is not enough, you need -dynamic too.
2021-04-28 00:42:41 +0200jrm2(~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) (Client Quit)
2021-04-28 00:43:04 +0200jrm2(~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm)
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2021-04-28 00:45:06 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 00:45:49 +0200 <monochrom> There was a time my idea of personal library was -i/home/me/my-cool-haskell-files too :)
2021-04-28 00:47:50 +0200safinaskar(~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
2021-04-28 00:47:53 +0200safinaskar(~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-04-28 00:48:32 +0200 <safinaskar> is there some way to get this datatype transformations automatically: https://paste.debian.net/1195441/ ?
2021-04-28 00:48:37 +0200 <clathomas> monochrom: haha indeed. I am changing / debugging the library a lot, so I do think ghci has advantages! But probably I do need to do something more official
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2021-04-28 00:57:21 +0200pbgc(~pbgc@a89-152-234-147.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-04-28 00:57:22 +0200sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge)
2021-04-28 00:57:31 +0200 <monochrom> I may delete "Expr" and "Term" altogether. I have never needed to "remember" user explicit parenthesizing by the time I output an AST.
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2021-04-28 00:59:15 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:d72c:c07:3040:2376) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 00:59:32 +0200 <monochrom> While a parser needs to take input parentheses into account, it can throw away that information very quickly.
2021-04-28 00:59:49 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-28 01:01:09 +0200 <safinaskar> monochrom: yes. but i am writing my own parser, and it always output full parse tree
2021-04-28 01:02:07 +0200 <safinaskar> monochrom: also, i am going to write both parser and printer. and thus i need transformations in both ways between parse tree and ast
2021-04-28 01:02:14 +0200clathomas(ad4839b3@pool-173-72-57-179.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-28 01:02:40 +0200 <monochrom> Then delete AST?
2021-04-28 01:07:38 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-28 01:08:06 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> monochrom: what if your parser is used in an text editor
2021-04-28 01:08:47 +0200DigitalKiwihands monochrom, monochrom hands a different one back
2021-04-28 01:08:56 +0200geekosaurtempted to point to ghc-exactprint
2021-04-28 01:09:02 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> ... + words
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2021-04-28 01:17:07 +0200 <safinaskar> monochrom: well, in fact eventually i want to write prover. ast will be typechecked then
2021-04-28 01:19:14 +0200 <safinaskar> geekosaur: ghc-exactprint - this was to me?
2021-04-28 01:19:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 01:19:30 +0200 <geekosaur> yes
2021-04-28 01:19:48 +0200 <geekosaur> it uses information in GHC's AST to regenerate the source that led to the AST
2021-04-28 01:20:06 +0200 <geekosaur> although I guess actually it was to monochrom
2021-04-28 01:21:11 +0200letmein(~letmein@2601:1c1:4200:938f:f8bf:6a67:4eed:b2c1)
2021-04-28 01:24:07 +0200sarahzrf_(~sarahzrf_@sarahzrf.com) (Quit: bye)
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2021-04-28 01:25:04 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:bc5b:4bb6:fff:c736)
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2021-04-28 01:28:31 +0200 <monochrom> /nick MrSpeaker
2021-04-28 01:29:08 +0200 <monochrom> (refereence to British-style parliaments)
2021-04-28 01:30:16 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:bc5b:4bb6:fff:c736) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-04-28 01:32:08 +0200 <monochrom> Data.Data is what I have heard for auto-coding of catamorphisms, but I have never learned it.
2021-04-28 01:32:31 +0200 <monochrom> and the DeriveData extension.
2021-04-28 01:33:11 +0200Tario(~Tario@200.119.186.99) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 01:33:21 +0200 <monochrom> The conversions between Expr+Term and AST look like catamorphisms respectively.
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2021-04-28 01:37:21 +0200 <safinaskar> geekosaur: ghc-exactprint parses and prints haskell. i am writing parser for any cfg-based language
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2021-04-28 01:54:43 +0200 <safinaskar> ok, thanks
2021-04-28 01:54:46 +0200safinaskar(~user@109-252-90-136.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
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2021-04-28 03:03:11 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:18c3:826f:bcf6:7789)
2021-04-28 03:04:26 +0200 <shapr> I think I figured it out. My theory is that graph reduction hardware needs low latency memory because the graph can be reduced in parallel. That means the next nodes you want to reduce probably aren't in cache, you don't have data locality working in your favor.
2021-04-28 03:05:04 +0200 <shapr> I think that means a graph reduction system would end up as tiles, with CPUs between slabs of RAM
2021-04-28 03:06:03 +0200 <shapr> I think I need to read SPJ's Implementation of Functional Programming Languages next? Any other suggested references?
2021-04-28 03:06:33 +0200dpl(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net)
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2021-04-28 03:30:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.47)
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2021-04-28 03:44:36 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-200.static.apol.com.tw)
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2021-04-28 03:47:51 +0200 <justsomeguy> I don't have any reasonable suggestions, but I had a dream where memristors where used to create digital nuerons in an electronic brain that was a graph reduction machine once.
2021-04-28 03:49:43 +0200 <justsomeguy> That was weird.
2021-04-28 03:50:59 +0200tmciver(~tmciver@cpe-172-101-46-34.maine.res.rr.com)
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2021-04-28 03:53:16 +0200 <ski> shapr : dunno, maybe Philip J. Koopman's (Ph. D. thesis) "An Architecture for Combinator Graph Reduction (TIGRE)" in 1990 at <https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/tigre/index.html> ?
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2021-04-28 08:04:02 +0200 <cheater> shapr: if you can reduce the graph in parallel then you don't want low latency memory. you want high bandwidth memory.
2021-04-28 08:04:04 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:8da3:57c2:b9e6:3845)
2021-04-28 08:04:29 +0200 <cheater> shapr: just like a gpu, its extremely wide architecture optimizes for throughput
2021-04-28 08:04:31 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 08:04:40 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.56.250) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-28 08:04:46 +0200 <cheater> any latency at the start of the data burst is insignificant, since the transfer is so long-lived.
2021-04-28 08:05:36 +0200p3n(~p3n@217.198.124.246) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-28 08:05:46 +0200p3n_(~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1)
2021-04-28 08:05:48 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-04-28 08:06:03 +0200 <Axman6> surely that depends on the parallelism of the problem though. like a hash algorithm with intentionally not be very wide
2021-04-28 08:06:12 +0200 <Axman6> will*
2021-04-28 08:07:07 +0200 <cheater> if it's not wide, how can it be parallelizable?
2021-04-28 08:07:08 +0200Lowl3v3l(~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-207-103-026.002.207.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-04-28 08:08:04 +0200 <cheater> wide here stems from the fact that you'll be performing the same computation on different data in a large amount of parallel instances. a million parallel threads or whatever. a thousand.
2021-04-28 08:08:19 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:8da3:57c2:b9e6:3845) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-28 08:08:28 +0200 <cheater> if you can't make it perform this many parallel threads, then you've hit the limit of that algorithm's parallelization
2021-04-28 08:08:41 +0200 <Axman6> sure, but that only works if that's your problem.
2021-04-28 08:08:48 +0200 <Axman6> yeah
2021-04-28 08:09:04 +0200 <cheater> i've just described all parallelizable problems
2021-04-28 08:09:04 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-28 08:09:30 +0200 <cheater> if you need low latency then at some point you have a serial algorithm with dependence on causality
2021-04-28 08:09:48 +0200 <cheater> which means you've hit the limit of parallelization
2021-04-28 08:09:56 +0200Axman6shakes fist angrily at time
2021-04-28 08:10:18 +0200 <cheater> it's not time
2021-04-28 08:10:20 +0200 <cheater> it's just time's arrow
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2021-04-28 08:31:44 +0200sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net)
2021-04-28 08:32:10 +0200 <[exa]> cheater: you probably need to add some energy limits, this way you could parallelize all NP problems sufficiently to be solved in P
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2021-04-28 09:10:00 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.229)
2021-04-28 09:14:01 +0200lordyod(~lordyod@c-67-169-144-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:15:01 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.229) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-04-28 09:22:20 +0200olle(~olle@mue-88-130-56-035.dsl.tropolys.de)
2021-04-28 09:22:30 +0200 <olle> Does Haskell deal with division by 0?
2021-04-28 09:22:35 +0200 <olle> Throwing error or exception?
2021-04-28 09:22:54 +0200 <olle> Wait, it's on google... ^^
2021-04-28 09:22:57 +0200danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
2021-04-28 09:24:13 +0200 <hc> > 1 / 0
2021-04-28 09:24:15 +0200 <lambdabot> Infinity
2021-04-28 09:24:26 +0200nehsou^(nehsou@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-04-28 09:24:39 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:97a:c563:cb11:fbc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:24:40 +0200 <hc> > :t 1 / 0
2021-04-28 09:24:42 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2021-04-28 09:24:51 +0200 <hc> :t 1 / 0
2021-04-28 09:24:52 +0200 <lambdabot> Fractional a => a
2021-04-28 09:25:01 +0200 <olle> Infinity, eh? Hm.
2021-04-28 09:25:24 +0200 <olle> Does that mean Haskell can express totality? That is, guaranteed to return on every value?
2021-04-28 09:28:08 +0200 <opqdonut> no
2021-04-28 09:28:33 +0200 <opqdonut> you can always use `undefined` to blow up any computation
2021-04-28 09:28:39 +0200 <opqdonut> or `fix id` for an infinite loop
2021-04-28 09:29:01 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@80.240.31.34)
2021-04-28 09:29:19 +0200ericsagn1(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:4233:4fa2:ecc4:e3d1) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:29:24 +0200 <letmein> if it were, then haskell wouldn't be turing complete, assuming i understand the question correctly
2021-04-28 09:29:47 +0200 <maerwald> ?
2021-04-28 09:30:06 +0200 <maerwald> expressing totality /= everything must be total
2021-04-28 09:30:23 +0200 <olle> Right
2021-04-28 09:30:25 +0200 <olle> opqdonut: thanks
2021-04-28 09:30:35 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.130.176.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-04-28 09:30:38 +0200 <maerwald> F* can express totality
2021-04-28 09:30:45 +0200 <olle> As can Koka, in fact.
2021-04-28 09:30:53 +0200 <maerwald> liquidhaskell too
2021-04-28 09:31:05 +0200 <letmein> ah ok. my bad
2021-04-28 09:31:07 +0200 <maerwald> to some degree I think
2021-04-28 09:32:16 +0200zmijunkie(~Adium@109.90.32.89) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:32:39 +0200zmijunkie(~Adium@87.122.222.152)
2021-04-28 09:33:18 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i8klmekwkijd9o.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-04-28 09:33:48 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-04-28 09:34:32 +0200 <olle> Is there another word for "weak" totality, when it's guaranteed to act on all of the domain?
2021-04-28 09:34:40 +0200 <olle> E.g. not missing a case
2021-04-28 09:34:54 +0200lordyod(~lordyod@c-67-169-144-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 09:35:13 +0200 <opqdonut> isn't that just totality? at least if "to act on" means "to terminate"
2021-04-28 09:35:21 +0200 <opqdonut> or what do you mean?
2021-04-28 09:36:27 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:a736:199e:991f:4edb)
2021-04-28 09:37:12 +0200 <olle> opqdonut: You can have a function that acts on all cases, but one case throws an exception --> no totality
2021-04-28 09:37:58 +0200 <opqdonut> how's that different from a non-total function that throws an exception on one case?
2021-04-28 09:38:22 +0200 <opqdonut> or perhaps you mean something like "guaranteed to terminate with a value or an exception"
2021-04-28 09:38:32 +0200 <opqdonut> that's perhaps even harder to track in a compiler than normal totality
2021-04-28 09:38:49 +0200 <olle> Instead of totality, something like "no case missed"
2021-04-28 09:39:10 +0200 <opqdonut> what I'm trying to say is how can you distinguish a "missed case" from some other reason for nontotality?
2021-04-28 09:39:18 +0200 <opqdonut> arguably every nontotal function merely "misses a case"
2021-04-28 09:39:21 +0200 <olle> Good question
2021-04-28 09:40:16 +0200jgt(~jgt@95.12.112.152)
2021-04-28 09:41:01 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:41:16 +0200ericsagn1(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:b546:5594:c630:5696)
2021-04-28 09:41:52 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 09:41:53 +0200 <maerwald> GHC warns you if you're not matching on a value
2021-04-28 09:42:23 +0200 <maerwald> that says nothing about whether the function terminates
2021-04-28 09:42:42 +0200 <opqdonut> yeah, and it's only a local check
2021-04-28 09:42:55 +0200 <opqdonut> calling head doesn't generate a warning :)
2021-04-28 09:43:13 +0200 <curiousgay> I need help identifying which part of code for boggle https://pastebin.com/raw/yxC9Wvzm is really slow, I was sure lazy evaluation would take care of that (that terrible naming of findWord is not mine)
2021-04-28 09:45:18 +0200 <olle> maerwald: right, you have this check.
2021-04-28 09:45:58 +0200 <olle> maerwald: what do you call it? exhaustiveness?
2021-04-28 09:46:06 +0200 <olle> so maybe that's the word to use, not "totality"
2021-04-28 09:46:13 +0200 <curiousgay> I should be more concrete that's just the code for checking whether the word is on board or not
2021-04-28 09:46:39 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-28 09:48:22 +0200 <curiousgay> maybe I'll solve that myself after taking a sleep...
2021-04-28 09:48:29 +0200cgfbee(~bot@oc1.itim-cj.ro) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-28 09:50:27 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-04-28 09:51:11 +0200 <maerwald> olle: yes, exhaustiveness
2021-04-28 09:51:58 +0200 <olle> So you can say a function is exhaustive on its input...? Or is that weird wording?
2021-04-28 09:52:05 +0200 <olle> Instead of total.
2021-04-28 09:53:56 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-04-28 10:13:45 +0200 <hc> exhaustive is the proper term for it, I think
2021-04-28 10:14:02 +0200 <nshepperd2> i think exhaustiveness is more a property of source code than functions
2021-04-28 10:14:32 +0200kini(~kini@unaffiliated/kini)
2021-04-28 10:15:49 +0200 <nshepperd2> if you have a function that has one case defined as 'undefined' that's semantically the same as a function with the case left out, it just indicates that the programmer did it on purpose
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2021-04-28 10:42:19 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@cpc98210-croy26-2-0-cust137.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-28 10:42:19 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@cpc98210-croy26-2-0-cust137.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Changing host)
2021-04-28 10:42:19 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2021-04-28 10:43:58 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Excess Flood)
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2021-04-28 10:44:36 +0200pbgc(~pbgc@83.240.250.199) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-04-28 10:44:42 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@112.16.171.9)
2021-04-28 10:44:58 +0200jgt(~jgt@95.12.112.152) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-04-28 10:48:16 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p200300eb4f122d00f69634fffef0b45f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 10:50:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 10:52:50 +0200heck-to-the-gnom(heck-to-th@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fqmzmgouaqnemhzv)
2021-04-28 10:53:14 +0200enthropy(~aavogt@135-23-166-92.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-04-28 10:53:56 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-04-28 10:54:16 +0200 <carbolymer> Is there any tool out there to read .prof from profiler more efficiently? I have a 50MB file with 99% of zeroes
2021-04-28 10:54:24 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p200300eb4f122d00f69634fffef0b45f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: knupfer)
2021-04-28 10:54:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-28 10:56:40 +0200 <kuribas> carbolymer: firegraph?
2021-04-28 10:57:04 +0200 <kuribas> well flamegraph: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-prof-flamegraph
2021-04-28 10:57:11 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.170.48.251)
2021-04-28 10:57:14 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:18c3:826f:bcf6:7789)
2021-04-28 10:58:07 +0200 <carbolymer> Ooh I was looking for STH similar in Haskell world, kuribas, thanks! I'll check this
2021-04-28 10:59:15 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.242)
2021-04-28 10:59:39 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.170.48.251) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-04-28 11:24:13 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@147.136.46.217.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-04-28 11:28:13 +0200fre(~freusque@104.238.190.229)
2021-04-28 11:28:49 +0200wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-248-72-252.bredband.comhem.se)
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2021-04-28 11:30:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 11:30:43 +0200 <wmacmil> if i run `readProcess "ls" ["*jpg"] ""` i get the exception `ls: cannot access '*jpg': No such file or directory`
2021-04-28 11:31:31 +0200 <wmacmil> why is this an incorrect arguement by the readProcess standard when `ls *.jpg` works just fine from the command line
2021-04-28 11:31:45 +0200acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9524d9e45372e00f3038.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 11:32:08 +0200 <Rembane> wmacmil: Which readProcess are you using?
2021-04-28 11:32:22 +0200 <wmacmil> System.Process
2021-04-28 11:32:31 +0200 <themk> It's because it doesn't do glob expansion.
2021-04-28 11:32:35 +0200 <themk> That is normally done by your shell.
2021-04-28 11:32:38 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 11:33:01 +0200 <wmacmil> themk: thank you, any suggested fix?
2021-04-28 11:33:21 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw)
2021-04-28 11:33:26 +0200 <merijn> wmacmil: Go through the shell
2021-04-28 11:33:28 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 11:33:45 +0200 <themk> Yes, use a shell, or use the Glob library.
2021-04-28 11:34:04 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 11:35:00 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-04-28 11:35:20 +0200 <tdammers> Note that using a shell is a security minefield, you have to be super careful not to introduce shell injection vulnerabilities. If you decide you want to do it, I recommend not having anything dynamic in your shell command at all.
2021-04-28 11:35:49 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p200300eb4f122d00641e6bfffebd888e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: knupfer)
2021-04-28 11:37:04 +0200jgt(~jgt@88.225.221.135)
2021-04-28 11:37:13 +0200 <merijn> I recommend not going through the shell ;)
2021-04-28 11:37:24 +0200 <themk> Yes, if you do need to glob, the Glob library is really quite good, and will cause less headaches.
2021-04-28 11:37:26 +0200 <Mrbuck> hi in haskell do we write all things as modules and import them?
2021-04-28 11:37:30 +0200 <wmacmil> thanks!
2021-04-28 11:37:36 +0200 <Mrbuck> all things as in every function*
2021-04-28 11:37:51 +0200 <merijn> Mrbuck: As opposed to?
2021-04-28 11:38:04 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:40:24 +0200 <Mrbuck> merijn: not opposing anything just want to know
2021-04-28 11:40:36 +0200 <merijn> No, I meant: "What's the alternative?"
2021-04-28 11:40:42 +0200 <Cale> wmacmil: You could also read the directory contents in Haskell using getDirectoryContents, and then filter that, like filter (isExtensionOf "jpg")
2021-04-28 11:41:18 +0200domenkozar[m](domenkozar@NixOS/user/domenkozar)
2021-04-28 11:41:18 +0200EmanuelLoos[m](emanuel-lo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ccfqmpexidbbdgfn)
2021-04-28 11:41:18 +0200mjlbach(atriusmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bvtmjmmlgatiwtwy)
2021-04-28 11:41:18 +0200CrabMan(phi-matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ugqyawvncvacxvcr)
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2021-04-28 11:41:19 +0200mrus[m](mrusmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nwqeewfgxdoywgen)
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2021-04-28 11:41:19 +0200PotatoHatsue(berbermanp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gflbqnsamcccztbl)
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2021-04-28 11:41:22 +0200ThaEwat(thaewraptm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-edsytnplokpagwcn)
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2021-04-28 11:41:23 +0200toasty_avocado[m(toastyavoc@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-blcnavbxkdcehbvk)
2021-04-28 11:41:23 +0200lnxw37d4(lnxw37d4ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmtycosfbgskcbjd)
2021-04-28 11:41:23 +0200JaakkoLuttinen[m(jluttinema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-voemsvmmhmegbjmj)
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2021-04-28 11:41:24 +0200M9ndres[m](m9ndresmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pudfhcvtdpredvew)
2021-04-28 11:41:24 +0200alar[m](alarmxalat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tumhmfppepawepdt)
2021-04-28 11:41:24 +0200TheWizardTower[m(thewizardt@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wdmliecptdlzuqsx)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200siraben(sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pzgsdxlvwtqwzhrz)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200pnotequalnp[m](pnotequaln@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fqukrforkcqmjqmf)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200chrisbloecker[m](chrisbloec@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cfmnrgdjzwadkarf)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fpcbkdqevgiqsfht)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200unclechu(unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hmyukeoalvxhtawb)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200srid(sridmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pldvflvxklvtooyv)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200adziahel[m](adziahelma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qwxmblcrsukkaonc)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200viktorstrate[m](viktorstra@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-npzjdqyttogpwofo)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200Ericson2314(ericson231@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-okvmajqpechljnhj)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200fox[m]1(foxforestf@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sgyvyyrumxjkmryw)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200beardhatcode(robbertbea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iptukbxzkzyjgrds)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200speakerspivakeem(speakerdea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xyepmqocrzayzhxl)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200DamienCassou(damiencass@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hyonoyihsjqrwcrp)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200themsay[m](themsaymat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jxvnrdxzkiqyurdg)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200my_name_is_not_j(mynameisno@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fhvkqskparpkjshv)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200mly(mlydisenco@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-etvxmtqydpegtqau)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200Poyo[m](stikynotha@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iltsnonsgfwlcdhp)
2021-04-28 11:41:25 +0200dominicusin[m](dominicusi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oatljpwlthdxnsxj)
2021-04-28 11:41:27 +0200stevekrouse1[m](stevekrous@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sskcyvujdvynhasa)
2021-04-28 11:41:27 +0200jchia[m](jchiamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-scatarnmpyydrxbt)
2021-04-28 11:41:27 +0200jo[m]5(josefmat1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ctqrkejqlhbnkkcd)
2021-04-28 11:41:28 +0200amerocu[m](amerocumat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ettekisbiqeapgti)
2021-04-28 11:41:29 +0200enya[m](enyaismatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-agkydfhgcfwkhomn)
2021-04-28 11:41:29 +0200madjestic[m](madjesticm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bliesrnvyjhhztuj)
2021-04-28 11:41:30 +0200kiix(ashleyisnu@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hfrupjvxbcxrktzk)
2021-04-28 11:41:31 +0200ManofLetters[m](manoflette@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aldpwaoxcmoohpyk)
2021-04-28 11:41:32 +0200mat[m]1(matmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ncllcajhozvxpwhs)
2021-04-28 11:41:33 +0200 <Cale> (that isExtensionOf function is in System.FilePath in the filepath package, and getDirectoryContents is in System.Directory in directory)
2021-04-28 11:42:22 +0200 <wmacmil> @Cale, thanks
2021-04-28 11:42:22 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2021-04-28 11:42:45 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p200300eb4f122d004c9c39fffec5d495.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 11:43:46 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@112.16.171.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:45:36 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:2c5f:5d28:bf75:f423)
2021-04-28 11:48:50 +0200faustind(~faustin@133.8.11.150) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:49:19 +0200todda7(~torstein@athedsl-4519432.home.otenet.gr)
2021-04-28 11:50:05 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:2c5f:5d28:bf75:f423) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:50:43 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p200300eb4f122d004c9c39fffec5d495.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:53:17 +0200Guest36391(~iomonad@unaffiliated/iomonad)
2021-04-28 11:54:10 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.170.48.251)
2021-04-28 11:55:08 +0200 <Arahael> Mrbuck: Unlike some languages, we don't put *everything* into the one file if we can avoid it. :)
2021-04-28 11:55:17 +0200zmijunkie1(~Adium@109.90.32.89) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:55:36 +0200zmijunkie(~Adium@87.122.222.152)
2021-04-28 11:56:23 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 11:58:05 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.119.140)
2021-04-28 11:58:32 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-28 11:59:02 +0200 <Mrbuck> Arahael: hmm, but I might be ony person who thinks so many modules == unreadable and new language
2021-04-28 11:59:43 +0200ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech)
2021-04-28 12:00:24 +0200faustind(~faustin@M014008067225.v4.enabler.ne.jp)
2021-04-28 12:00:59 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> who's going to find the meme
2021-04-28 12:01:14 +0200 <Arahael> Mrbuck: You'll change your mind once you start seeing files that are 10's of thousands of lines long.
2021-04-28 12:01:29 +0200 <Arahael> I think I had one somewhere that was more than 30,000 lines.
2021-04-28 12:02:17 +0200Guest25703(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-b547-c3a9-933c-ab1d.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-28 12:03:20 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-28 12:04:51 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/tritlo/status/1379268344138891273/photo/2 i found this which i had not seen before and it's pretty much it lol
2021-04-28 12:05:05 +0200incertia(~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com)
2021-04-28 12:06:31 +0200 <Mrbuck> Arahael: I agree on that context but writing 15 lines and creating modules for even variable and constants is good?
2021-04-28 12:07:44 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:07:55 +0200 <Arahael> Mrbuck: There isn't enough context to judge that. In general, I would say that a file should contain one component, concept, or idea.
2021-04-28 12:07:56 +0200 <Cale> Mrbuck: Obviously, you should organise modules so that they're logical and have collections of related things in them.
2021-04-28 12:08:32 +0200 <Mrbuck> Arahael: Cale okay got it
2021-04-28 12:12:43 +0200wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-248-72-252.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:14:06 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 12:18:08 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-28 12:18:12 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:18:40 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> probably a more efficient way to find it than just scrollign edwardk twitter... anyway basically this but imports https://pics.me.me/the-maths-dehhddeepleihing-import-keras-say-hello-to-keras-56785635.png
2021-04-28 12:20:57 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/themattchan/status/911451409924493314?s=20
2021-04-28 12:21:13 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1240735739945594884?s=20
2021-04-28 12:21:41 +0200aVikingTrex(~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-04-28 12:22:14 +0200 <yushyin> DigitalKiwi: https://twitter.com/impurepics/status/1256632223027146755 this one?
2021-04-28 12:22:26 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> yes! ty
2021-04-28 12:22:45 +0200 <Philonous> Is there consensus on the use of circular dependencies using {-# SOURCE -#} pragmas and .hs-boot files? Ok to use occasionally? Code smell? Avoid at all costs?
2021-04-28 12:23:09 +0200writenix(~quassel@151.189.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-04-28 12:23:25 +0200 <maerwald> I use it when I see fit and don't care what others think
2021-04-28 12:23:26 +0200writenix(~quassel@151.189.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt) (Client Quit)
2021-04-28 12:24:41 +0200 <Philonous> Well, it's not so much that I want to avoid the code-aesthetics police and more that I'm wondering if there are downsides that I'm just not seeing right now.
2021-04-28 12:26:17 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i have never used it and care what others think
2021-04-28 12:26:26 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> seems there's no consensus
2021-04-28 12:27:15 +0200ekrion(~ffx1@181.58.39.182)
2021-04-28 12:27:52 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:28:43 +0200totte(~totte@chakra/totte) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:28:54 +0200 <Philonous> But I also care what others think since I'm not writing that code for myself.
2021-04-28 12:29:06 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-28 12:29:07 +0200 <maerwald> There's a maintenance overhead
2021-04-28 12:29:44 +0200 <maerwald> And it, obviously, causes a circular dependency, which can, when overused, make reasoning about a module harder. Although I think that's a pretty minor point.
2021-04-28 12:29:45 +0200Alleria(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org)
2021-04-28 12:30:10 +0200AlleriaGuest33772
2021-04-28 12:30:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:31:11 +0200idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-45-4-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:32:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 12:36:14 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5216:4600:1ad0:c9d5:4f86:a019) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:37:21 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5216:4600:d365:aa72:75db:f7b9)
2021-04-28 12:37:28 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:37:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 12:39:35 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.217.205)
2021-04-28 12:40:16 +0200themk(~lukec@14-203-137-238.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: zzz)
2021-04-28 12:43:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:43:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 12:45:44 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@22.249.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-04-28 12:46:40 +0200 <Philonous> OK, thanks!
2021-04-28 12:46:44 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 12:48:05 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-28 12:50:52 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:52:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 12:52:29 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:55:14 +0200jgt_(~jgt@46.154.88.171)
2021-04-28 12:57:12 +0200jgt(~jgt@88.225.221.135) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:57:42 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 12:57:57 +0200elfets_(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-04-28 12:59:58 +0200aveltras(uid364989@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yfblqpcgihobrdbr)
2021-04-28 13:00:54 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:18c3:826f:bcf6:7789)
2021-04-28 13:01:19 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.56.250)
2021-04-28 13:01:25 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:fcc4:b6f1:bad6:309d)
2021-04-28 13:01:40 +0200 <aveltras> does anyone successfully use haskell-language-server on a stack "monorepo" (stack.yaml in root directory and multiple subdirectories with each their package.yaml) ? It kinda works but my laptop is constantly hitting max ram usage and when using "haskell-language-server" on the project to check it without ide usage, it seems to be building the subpackages multiple times
2021-04-28 13:01:51 +0200olle(~olle@mue-88-130-56-035.dsl.tropolys.de) ()
2021-04-28 13:02:06 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:02:37 +0200elfets_(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:02:47 +0200 <joel135> stack install lens-tutorial; stack ghci; import Control.Lens.Tutorial; Could not find module ‘Control.Lens.Tutorial’; What gives?
2021-04-28 13:05:03 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-28 13:05:21 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:18c3:826f:bcf6:7789) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:06:04 +0200 <merijn> iirc "stack install" isn't what you want
2021-04-28 13:06:16 +0200 <merijn> But then, I don't use stack, so what do I know :p
2021-04-28 13:06:25 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:fcc4:b6f1:bad6:309d) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:07:16 +0200ubert1(~Thunderbi@178.165.128.83.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:07:19 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2021-04-28 13:07:23 +0200 <joel135> It claimed to install lens-tutorial, at least.
2021-04-28 13:07:58 +0200 <maerwald> stack repl --package lens?
2021-04-28 13:09:38 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@147.136.46.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:10:55 +0200 <raehik> When annotating data constructors, what's the Haddock syntax to latch a comment onto a given constructor?
2021-04-28 13:11:09 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:11:25 +0200wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-248-72-252.bredband.comhem.se)
2021-04-28 13:11:37 +0200 <raehik> I use '-- | blabla' myself, but I've seen '-- ^ blabla'? and I rarely check the actual Haddock output lol
2021-04-28 13:11:40 +0200 <merijn> raehik: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/broadcast-chan-0.2.1.1/docs/src/BroadcastChan.Internal.html#Di…
2021-04-28 13:12:07 +0200 <raehik> merijn: if I put the comment on a newline, above or below?
2021-04-28 13:12:07 +0200 <merijn> raehik: The difference is that '-- |' must come *before* and '-- ^' after
2021-04-28 13:12:13 +0200 <raehik> Bahahaha. I thought so.
2021-04-28 13:12:32 +0200 <merijn> raehik: And I don't think '-- |' works for function arguments and might not work for constructors?
2021-04-28 13:13:26 +0200 <raehik> ahh, thanks
2021-04-28 13:14:12 +0200zmijunkie(~Adium@87.122.222.152) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-28 13:21:06 +0200Qwerky_(~qwerky@37.165.107.63)
2021-04-28 13:22:20 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-28 13:22:52 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 13:23:38 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.170.48.251) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:24:31 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:6df4:a206:6bd4:dc59) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:26:58 +0200enthropy(~aavogt@135-23-166-92.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:27:11 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:28:09 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) ()
2021-04-28 13:29:43 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:30:16 +0200L29Ah(~L29Ah@unaffiliated/l29ah) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:30:27 +0200bennofs_(~quassel@x4dbff94d.dyn.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:34:07 +0200 <joel135> maerwald: nothing changed
2021-04-28 13:34:29 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-04-28 13:38:22 +0200skewerrspoonm
2021-04-28 13:38:34 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-28 13:40:50 +0200enthropy(~aavogt@135-23-166-92.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-04-28 13:41:57 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:42:45 +0200ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:42:46 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-04-28 13:44:29 +0200faustind(~faustin@M014008067225.v4.enabler.ne.jp) ()
2021-04-28 13:44:46 +0200 <maerwald> that's depressing
2021-04-28 13:45:11 +0200ulidtko|k(~ulidtko@31.133.98.224)
2021-04-28 13:47:54 +0200ulidtko(~ulidtko@194.54.80.38) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:51:15 +0200philderbeast(~textual@bras-base-vldvpq5901w-grc-06-184-144-244-252.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-28 13:51:31 +0200ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech)
2021-04-28 13:51:43 +0200ulidtko|kk(~ulidtko@194.54.80.38)
2021-04-28 13:51:55 +0200tlaxkit(~konversat@185.228.153.18)
2021-04-28 13:54:06 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: "repl --package" is cabal
2021-04-28 13:54:28 +0200ulidtko|k(~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 13:55:49 +0200ekrion(~ffx1@181.58.39.182) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 13:58:02 +0200 <maerwald> in cabal it's --build-depends
2021-04-28 13:58:31 +0200ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:d5ef:86b3:afc4:9258)
2021-04-28 13:59:53 +0200 <merijn> oh, right
2021-04-28 14:00:15 +0200 <maerwald> I'm not even sure what --package does there
2021-04-28 14:00:28 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 14:00:52 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-28 14:02:09 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Quit: = "")
2021-04-28 14:04:14 +0200 <maerwald> hmm, git does weird stuff to stdout... my fancy stdout printers don't work well with it
2021-04-28 14:04:38 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 14:05:07 +0200sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-04-28 14:05:08 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-28 14:06:31 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: How did you implement you fancy printers?
2021-04-28 14:07:20 +0200 <maerwald> merijn: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/blob/master/lib/GHCup/Utils/File.hs#L147
2021-04-28 14:07:32 +0200jgt_(~jgt@46.154.88.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 14:08:11 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: What kinda weirdness are you seeing?
2021-04-28 14:08:49 +0200 <merijn> <- has a hunch
2021-04-28 14:08:50 +0200 <maerwald> commands that exit quickly don't get shown, some lines persist that shouldn't
2021-04-28 14:09:23 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: You're not manually setting buffering, I guess?
2021-04-28 14:09:49 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 14:10:26 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: terminal/pty file descriptors are (by default) in line buffered mode, file descriptors that are *not* terminals (such as pipes) are, by default, block buffered
2021-04-28 14:11:09 +0200ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 14:11:17 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Also "forkProcess" <- RIP your sanity
2021-04-28 14:11:50 +0200 <maerwald> who said I'm sane?
2021-04-28 14:12:27 +0200 <merijn> I'm 99.9% certain it's *literally* impossible to use forkProcess correctly/safely
2021-04-28 14:12:34 +0200 <merijn> Actually, scratch that
2021-04-28 14:12:45 +0200 <maerwald> no good library to read stdout of a subprocess as a stream
2021-04-28 14:12:50 +0200 <merijn> 99.999% certain if your code uses the threaded RTS and/or multiple Haskell threads
2021-04-28 14:13:38 +0200ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech)
2021-04-28 14:13:47 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: What's wrong with createProcess and using Handles?
2021-04-28 14:14:28 +0200 <maerwald> don't like them
2021-04-28 14:14:35 +0200 <merijn> tbh, the fact that unix exports forkProcess is down-right negligent
2021-04-28 14:14:37 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer)
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2021-04-28 14:41:02 +0200 <thblt> I have a (finite) bunch of objects that link to each other (let's say books and their authors). Is it reasonable/idiomatic to store the objects in some sort of indexed container (eg `Map Int Object`) and have those links represented as indexes? Eg newtype ObjectId = Int; data Book = Book { author :: ObjectId, title :: String}? (The actual model is more complex, I would just like to know if it makes sense)
2021-04-28 14:41:25 +0200 <merijn> "maybe"?
2021-04-28 14:41:30 +0200 <thblt> Ha.
2021-04-28 14:41:43 +0200 <thblt> :)
2021-04-28 14:43:54 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 14:43:57 +0200carbolymerjust found memleak
2021-04-28 14:44:23 +0200 <carbolymer> Someone used mapConcurrently spawning a gazillion of threads :/
2021-04-28 14:44:37 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-28 14:44:40 +0200 <merijn> carbolymer: Yes, mapConcurrently doesn't do any limiting
2021-04-28 14:44:56 +0200 <merijn> That's why I wrote my own version(s) :p
2021-04-28 14:45:05 +0200 <carbolymer> Any ideas how can I limit nr of concurrent threads?
2021-04-28 14:45:26 +0200 <carbolymer> merijn: nice, is it open-source?;)
2021-04-28 14:46:14 +0200 <merijn> carbolymer: Yes, which is another way of saying "It doesn't support 9.0 or 9.2 yet, because I don't have time to update all my packages until, like, June :p)
2021-04-28 14:46:18 +0200 <merijn> carbolymer: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/broadcast-chan-0.2.1.1/docs/BroadcastChan.html#g:4
2021-04-28 14:46:27 +0200 <carbolymer> Thx!
2021-04-28 14:46:45 +0200 <merijn> carbolymer: Got a conduit version too: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/broadcast-chan-conduit-0.2.1.1/docs/BroadcastChan-Conduit.html
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2021-04-28 14:58:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> thblt: you're losing type safety that way, since you're mapping to a generic Object, not a Book or an Author specifically. Whether that's okay depends on your application :)
2021-04-28 14:58:37 +0200clownfisch(5b27fb77@p5b27fb77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 14:58:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> If that's okay, I think it's a fine way of making a very flexible data structure for this purpose
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2021-04-28 15:02:16 +0200 <thblt> tomsmeding: Thanks. I was planning of using phantom types to mitigate the first issue.
2021-04-28 15:02:46 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
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2021-04-28 15:10:36 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@156.59.147.147.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-04-28 15:14:16 +0200 <haasn> There's a name for the concept of abstractions like `data Widget = Widget { doSomething :: Bool -> Widget, doSomethingElse :: Int -> Widget }`, as opposed to e.g. `class Widget w where doSomething :: w -> Bool -> w; doSomethingElse :: w -> Int -> w`
2021-04-28 15:14:20 +0200 <haasn> What is the name for this first type of design?
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2021-04-28 15:28:58 +0200 <sshine> haasn, good question.
2021-04-28 15:29:40 +0200vk3wtf_(~doc@61.68.250.44)
2021-04-28 15:30:14 +0200 <sshine> haasn, I think that could depend on how you deal with w. but one very general term would be type-parameterised?
2021-04-28 15:30:30 +0200 <merijn> haasn: I usually call it "OO Haskell" :p
2021-04-28 15:31:13 +0200 <merijn> Because it basically behaves like OO interfaces
2021-04-28 15:31:31 +0200vk3wtf(~doc@115-64-102-158.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2021-04-28 15:33:34 +0200 <sshine> haasn, if you have something like 'data Widget w = Widget { doSomething :: w Bool, doSomethingElse :: Int -> w () }', you'd have a Barbie. :-D http://hackage.haskell.org/package/barbies -- i.e., if your type parameter is specifically a unary type-constructor.
2021-04-28 15:33:47 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.119.140)
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2021-04-28 15:36:07 +0200 <haasn> Hmm maybe I'm wrong and there isn't a term. I just have this weird "at the tip of my tongue" feeling regarding to it being a thing with a name
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2021-04-28 15:47:11 +0200 <sshine> haasn, there's quite a lot of concepts that are born from having an ADT or a GADT take a type parameter in some specific way.
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2021-04-28 15:50:09 +0200 <sshine> haasn, e.g. fixpoint types: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes -- and monadic effect systems: https://github.com/graninas/hierarchical-free-monads-the-most-developed-approach-in-haskell#dive-i…
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2021-04-28 16:01:10 +0200ski. o O ( presque vu )
2021-04-28 16:01:22 +0200 <ski> haasn : i guess i'd call it "(recursive) OO" (to be constrasted with "existential OO")
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2021-04-28 16:39:23 +0200russruss40(~russruss@my.russellmcc.com) ("The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat")
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2021-04-28 16:56:44 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.151)
2021-04-28 16:59:07 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-28 17:00:34 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:18c3:826f:bcf6:7789)
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2021-04-28 17:01:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 17:01:06 +0200 <jumper149> How can I find the documentation on makeWrapper
2021-04-28 17:01:15 +0200 <jumper149> oups wrong channel srz
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2021-04-28 17:10:33 +0200neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj)
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2021-04-28 17:15:30 +0200cdsmith(49cf15a2@c-73-207-21-162.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 17:16:26 +0200jgt_(~jgt@176.232.60.233) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 17:17:57 +0200 <cdsmith> I'm looking for something like this: data TypedVal; mkTypedVal :: Typeable a => a -> TypedVal; getTypedVal :: Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypedVal -> Maybe a.  Is there a common implementation for this?
2021-04-28 17:18:17 +0200 <shapr> howdy cdsmith, how's life?
2021-04-28 17:18:30 +0200 <cdsmith> @shapr Life is alright!  You?
2021-04-28 17:18:31 +0200lambdabotslaps Life is alright!  You? with a slab of concrete
2021-04-28 17:18:48 +0200 <shapr> doing well, enjoying writing Haskell all day :-)
2021-04-28 17:19:59 +0200 <Taneb> cdsmith: that looks a bit like Data.Dynamic
2021-04-28 17:20:11 +0200 <cdsmith> Oh yeah... that's almost surely right. :)
2021-04-28 17:20:16 +0200 <cdsmith> Ha... thanks!
2021-04-28 17:20:50 +0200 <cdsmith> Yes, Dynamic it is!  Thanks
2021-04-28 17:21:10 +0200 <ski> @botsmack
2021-04-28 17:21:11 +0200 <lambdabot> :)
2021-04-28 17:22:11 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skcvldmujnozgzqc)
2021-04-28 17:23:46 +0200sarahzrf(~sarahzrf_@sarahzrf.com) (Quit: bye)
2021-04-28 17:24:00 +0200sarahzrf(~sarahzrf_@2604:a880:400:d0::b4a:4001)
2021-04-28 17:24:06 +0200 <shapr> I signed up to do a fifteen minute talk about graph reduction hardware. I expect to do ten minutes of excited hand waving about "A parallel future" with a a few slides and then a huge pile of citations at the end.
2021-04-28 17:25:46 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-45-4-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 17:25:59 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-04-28 17:26:38 +0200 <cdsmith> shapr: That's more than I know about graph reduction hardware!
2021-04-28 17:27:00 +0200 <ski> shapr : did you glance at Koopmans thesis ?
2021-04-28 17:27:54 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 17:27:58 +0200 <shapr> ski: yes!
2021-04-28 17:28:05 +0200 <shapr> that's a good suggestion, thanks!
2021-04-28 17:28:49 +0200 <shapr> I still don't understand enough to understand how templating works in the reduceron, but I'm finding this talk to be a great excuse to read exciting research papers
2021-04-28 17:28:56 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.73)
2021-04-28 17:29:19 +0200todda7(~torstein@athedsl-4519432.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 17:30:25 +0200 <ski> <someone> seen a couple of faculty answered the question "why are you teaching this class?" "oh I just wanted to learn about X a bit"
2021-04-28 17:30:59 +0200 <shapr> the big ideas are really neat though, https://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mt540/graceful-ws/slides/Stewart.pdf
2021-04-28 17:31:13 +0200remby(~remby@bras-base-london1483w-grc-43-65-95-173-128.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-04-28 17:31:51 +0200 <shapr> I envision hardware graph reduction as described in those slides, lots of graph CPUs with their own connections to the RAM
2021-04-28 17:32:40 +0200 <shapr> ski: yes, that's a great quote :-)
2021-04-28 17:33:01 +0200 <ski> i guess, for it to be adopted more, there'd need to be some killer application(s)
2021-04-28 17:33:17 +0200 <ski> (like FPS games for GPUs)
2021-04-28 17:33:45 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:f844:a502:b562:59cd)
2021-04-28 17:33:46 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.73) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-04-28 17:35:01 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-28 17:35:41 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:6df4:a206:6bd4:dc59)
2021-04-28 17:35:47 +0200Wuzzy(~Wuzzy@p5790e74f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 17:36:38 +0200 <shapr> there are killer applications, but I'm still not sure it'll ever happen
2021-04-28 17:37:28 +0200haasn.oO( graph reduction on GPUs? )
2021-04-28 17:37:37 +0200 <shapr> DARPA's HIVE project put up a bunch of award money for improve graph processing, but I think only one small award was actually won, and that for improved data locality
2021-04-28 17:38:03 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:f844:a502:b562:59cd) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-28 17:41:12 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy..)
2021-04-28 17:41:35 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-04-28 17:41:36 +0200hypercube(~hypercube@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-28 17:42:07 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:6df4:a206:6bd4:dc59) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 17:47:41 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-04-28 17:50:42 +0200 <merijn> Because no one really understands how locality affects graph processing >.>
2021-04-28 17:51:13 +0200letmein(~letmein@2601:1c1:4200:938f:f8bf:6a67:4eed:b2c1)
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2021-04-28 18:16:31 +0200Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyliiafcmtwzffhn) ()
2021-04-28 18:17:55 +0200chele(~chele@5.53.222.202) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 18:20:01 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> what's a graph reduction
2021-04-28 18:21:12 +0200 <shapr> DigitalKiwi: it's an exciting fun thing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_reduction
2021-04-28 18:24:43 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 18:24:47 +0200sanny(~sanny@77.243.28.238)
2021-04-28 18:26:18 +0200sanny(~sanny@77.243.28.238) (Client Quit)
2021-04-28 18:26:48 +0200wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-252-138-144.bredband.comhem.se)
2021-04-28 18:28:17 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i'm eager to learn about it but too lazy to read a book
2021-04-28 18:28:32 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-28 18:30:15 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-28 18:30:39 +0200 <Rembane> Graph reduction looks like how lambda calculus is evaluated.
2021-04-28 18:31:55 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-04-28 18:57:18 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.118)
2021-04-28 18:57:35 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2021-04-28 18:59:23 +0200knupfer1knupfer
2021-04-28 18:59:26 +0200 <shapr> I want to buy a copy of SPJ's The Implementation of Functional Programming Languages, but it's $300, yow
2021-04-28 19:00:25 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-04-28 19:01:02 +0200bennofs_(~quassel@x4dbff94d.dyn.telefonica.de)
2021-04-28 19:01:09 +0200Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkbkfleqsavrnzrc) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-28 19:01:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> shapr: this one? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/1992/01/student.pdf
2021-04-28 19:01:43 +0200knupfer1(~Thunderbi@p549174c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-28 19:01:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah no
2021-04-28 19:02:40 +0200 <monochrom> I think it is better to go to https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/people/simonpj/publications/ and look for that.
2021-04-28 19:02:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> shapr: this one https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/1987/01/slpj-book-1987.pdf
2021-04-28 19:02:50 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63)
2021-04-28 19:02:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> as linked from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/the-implementation-of-functional-programming-…
2021-04-28 19:02:59 +0200 <monochrom> While you're at it, you may also notice some other papers about graph reduction.
2021-04-28 19:03:49 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p549174c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:03:50 +0200knupfer1knupfer
2021-04-28 19:04:11 +0200 <monochrom> Yikes, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/a-static-semantics-for-haskell/ has a typo, "paper" -> "apper"
2021-04-28 19:04:12 +0200timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-104-226.cust.tele2.ee)
2021-04-28 19:04:22 +0200 <monochrom> I want an apper too.
2021-04-28 19:05:13 +0200jlv(jlvmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aykzzgnedlsynqbm)
2021-04-28 19:05:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> :D
2021-04-28 19:07:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-28 19:07:48 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:08:00 +0200sedeki(~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki)
2021-04-28 19:09:39 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:5b3:e73b:338e:cc47)
2021-04-28 19:09:46 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:10:04 +0200 <ep1ctetus> can anyone recommend a Haskell build system that won't automatically download files from the internet?
2021-04-28 19:10:41 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@p549174c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:12:16 +0200 <monochrom> I haven't tried, but if you edit $HOME/.cabal/config and delete the remote repo settings, cabal would have nowhere to download from.
2021-04-28 19:12:48 +0200 <ep1ctetus> monochrom: I have successfully done that with stack, but it feels like a hack
2021-04-28 19:13:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:13:26 +0200pgib(textual@lmms/pgib) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:13:43 +0200 <monochrom> If you run Setup.hs, it doesn't download either.
2021-04-28 19:14:27 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 19:14:28 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 19:14:54 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-04-28 19:15:14 +0200 <monochrom> A software engineering prof once asked me a question. It enlightened me and since then I have had a much lower tendency to call unforeseen usages "hacks".
2021-04-28 19:15:26 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63)
2021-04-28 19:15:45 +0200 <monochrom> He asked me "what do people use telephone answering machines for?"
2021-04-28 19:16:12 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-04-28 19:16:41 +0200sedeki(~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-04-28 19:16:50 +0200 <monochrom> Well that was before everyone had cellphones (and there were no smartphones). The equiv question today is "what do people use voice mails for?"
2021-04-28 19:17:48 +0200 <monochrom> The creators had in mind taking messages when the phone owner isn't around to answer the call.
2021-04-28 19:18:40 +0200 <monochrom> But users ended up using them for screening calls. They would be totally right at the phone and still let the machine answer the call first. If undesired caller, let the machine finish.
2021-04-28 19:18:58 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:19:26 +0200proofofkeags(~proofofke@205.209.28.54)
2021-04-28 19:19:44 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 19:20:55 +0200ski. o O ( "Don't ask to ask." )
2021-04-28 19:20:57 +0200 <monochrom> Is that a life hack, or is it just very natural evolution?
2021-04-28 19:21:43 +0200 <monochrom> I was a smartass, so I replied the prof, "what do people use Microsoft Word for? answer: spreading VB viruses >:)"
2021-04-28 19:21:53 +0200 <ep1ctetus> Right, so I can see that stack was designed with the idea in mind that you would always have an internet connection, and that you wouldn't mind it downloading things without asking you
2021-04-28 19:22:25 +0200 <wz1000> cabal has --offline
2021-04-28 19:22:31 +0200 <ep1ctetus> aha!
2021-04-28 19:22:35 +0200 <monochrom> nice
2021-04-28 19:23:25 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:6df4:a206:6bd4:dc59)
2021-04-28 19:28:48 +0200deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-04-28 19:29:36 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63)
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2021-04-28 19:30:51 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:6df4:a206:6bd4:dc59) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:31:56 +0200 <ep1ctetus> I see that's listed as an "undocumented field" here https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html?highlight=offline#advanced-global-configura…
2021-04-28 19:33:32 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233)
2021-04-28 19:33:35 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:34:12 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@37.165.107.63) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:35:44 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 19:36:08 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 19:36:26 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-04-28 19:38:14 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-28 19:38:50 +0200 <maerwald> yes, stack is pretty lax with your bandwidth... it also may download the same git repo 20 times (if you use 20 subdirs)
2021-04-28 19:39:00 +0200 <wz1000> ep1ctetus: it shows up in --help
2021-04-28 19:39:27 +0200 <maerwald> on some repos, that caused an initial `stack build` to take 30 minutes on my PC
2021-04-28 19:39:31 +0200 <maerwald> while cabal was 3
2021-04-28 19:40:31 +0200 <ep1ctetus> wz1000: thanks
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2021-04-28 20:31:47 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-04-28 20:33:29 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-04-28 20:34:11 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-28 20:34:47 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:a736:199e:991f:4edb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-28 20:35:36 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.56.250)
2021-04-28 20:35:57 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@97-120-89-117.ptld.qwest.net)
2021-04-28 20:36:03 +0200 <myShoggoth> HF April Update is posted: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-foundation-april-update/2445
2021-04-28 20:37:11 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-28 20:38:36 +0200mauro^(dsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-04-28 20:46:10 +0200 <sm[m]> +1
2021-04-28 20:46:33 +0200Prune26(4907f2d4@c-73-7-242-212.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2021-04-28 20:46:51 +0200Prune26(4907f2d4@c-73-7-242-212.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) ()
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2021-04-28 20:55:04 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@200-112-90-35.baf.movistar.cl)
2021-04-28 21:00:14 +0200ski. o O ( "Tact Filters" by Jeff Bigler in 1996,2006 at <https://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html> )
2021-04-28 21:01:18 +0200jneira(5127acfa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.81.39.172.250)
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2021-04-28 21:31:46 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
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2021-04-28 21:34:39 +0200 <slack1256> I am trying to steer GHC to the correct instance via overlapping instances but I am out of luck. Can anyone help me? https://pastebin.com/NYbZRfgp
2021-04-28 21:34:55 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-28 21:35:17 +0200 <slack1256> I know it can be done without hacks, but this is for testing and I should impose extra constrains on the tested code.
2021-04-28 21:35:31 +0200Miroboru(~myrvoll@2001:700:301:11::24f)
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2021-04-28 21:36:46 +0200 <slack1256> I would like to have `myFunc (3 :: Int) = Just KeyInt`
2021-04-28 21:37:04 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.120)
2021-04-28 21:37:33 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.56.250) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-28 21:38:51 +0200 <hyperisco> slack1256, minimally you need a constraint on your type variable for KnownKey
2021-04-28 21:39:04 +0200 <hyperisco> myFunc :: forall a. KnownKey a => a -> Maybe (Key a)
2021-04-28 21:39:18 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-28 21:39:36 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-04-28 21:39:52 +0200 <hyperisco> if you have a closed set of types then you can do this with a closed type family
2021-04-28 21:40:07 +0200 <hyperisco> if it is an open set of types, I don't think what you are hoping for makes sense in terms of Haskell
2021-04-28 21:40:30 +0200 <hyperisco> because you cannot ask in Haskell if an instance does not exist for a type
2021-04-28 21:40:58 +0200 <hyperisco> potentially, depending on what you are trying to do, a data family may be of interest
2021-04-28 21:41:54 +0200 <todda7> is the mean zscore equal to 0?
2021-04-28 21:41:55 +0200 <slack1256> https://github.com/mikeizbicki/ifcxt
2021-04-28 21:42:12 +0200 <slack1256> We probably can ask if a type has an instance O.o
2021-04-28 21:43:54 +0200 <hyperisco> yes but that is a different question
2021-04-28 21:44:56 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-28 21:46:17 +0200 <hyperisco> slack1256, overlapping instances dips into the negated question because it has to know if any better instance exists, which is not an open world question
2021-04-28 21:46:46 +0200 <slack1256> Mmmm I see
2021-04-28 21:46:52 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-28 21:46:57 +0200 <slack1256> How would I proceed if I have closed set of types?
2021-04-28 21:47:01 +0200 <hyperisco> but… maybe if you use OVERLAPPABLE on the more general instance, and OVERLAPPING on the more specific one, it might work
2021-04-28 21:47:13 +0200 <hyperisco> you'd use a closed type family
2021-04-28 21:47:19 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-28 21:47:33 +0200 <hyperisco> then you can map Type -> Bool
2021-04-28 21:50:20 +0200 <hyperisco> you'd want DataKinds
2021-04-28 21:51:07 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-28 21:51:09 +0200 <slack1256> Mmm know this is taking advantage of your kindness, but I don't understand. Only if can/want could you give me an example?
2021-04-28 21:51:10 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-28 21:51:23 +0200 <slack1256> *I know
2021-04-28 21:51:52 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-28 21:52:02 +0200 <hyperisco> type family IsKnownKey a where IsKnownKey Int = True; IsKnownKey a = False
2021-04-28 21:52:17 +0200 <hyperisco> I potentially have misremembered the syntax
2021-04-28 21:52:32 +0200 <slack1256> that is the correct syntax for closed type families
2021-04-28 21:52:39 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus) (Quit: ->)
2021-04-28 21:52:44 +0200 <hyperisco> that is what I was attempting
2021-04-28 21:54:12 +0200 <hyperisco> class KnownKey a x | a -> x where knownKey :: a -> Maybe a; instance IsKnownKey a ~ x => KnownKey a True where knownKey = Just
2021-04-28 21:54:57 +0200 <hyperisco> oh I meant to have that constraint on the class
2021-04-28 21:55:43 +0200cdsmith(49cf15a2@c-73-207-21-162.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-28 21:56:02 +0200 <slack1256> class IsKnowKey a ~ x => KnownKey a x | a -> x where ... got it.
2021-04-28 21:56:35 +0200 <hyperisco> that functional dependency is evident from the type family but I think you still have to tell ghc about it
2021-04-28 21:58:42 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@80.240.31.34) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-28 21:58:57 +0200 <slack1256> Probably injectivity would help...
2021-04-28 21:59:02 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-28 22:00:18 +0200 <hyperisco> the idea is that you know a so injectivity is not needed
2021-04-28 22:00:25 +0200rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-04-28 22:00:44 +0200 <hyperisco> if you're having to ask "what are all the known keys?" then that is going to need a different design
2021-04-28 22:01:03 +0200 <hyperisco> say with type lists
2021-04-28 22:01:25 +0200 <hyperisco> dollars to donuts this is more work than you need to do :P
2021-04-28 22:01:58 +0200 <slack1256> No no, I just want to get a `Just val` if the type has an instance. No need to enumerate.
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2021-04-28 23:12:00 +0200 <tributarian> Has anyone here used beam with a database read replica? I am trying to understand the Haskell database ecosystem. I have an application with two database nodes, read/write and read-only. It sort of looks like I would have to handle the split at a higher level than beam and just have a connection to each node passing each one to beam depending on the nature of the operation.
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2021-04-28 23:54:21 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> tributarian: what do you mean by "I am trying to understand the Haskell database ecosystem." ? are you trying to find out if people implement databases in haskell, or simply use databases with haskell drivers?
2021-04-28 23:56:02 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> the case you described looks like a matter of interfacing with a database using a driver
2021-04-28 23:56:06 +0200 <tributarian> __minoru__shirae: I am trying to understand how to use databases with Haskell drivers.