IRCBrowse

2020/10/25

2020-10-25 00:00:27 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2020-10-25 00:00:37 +0200acidjnk_new3(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237865e916a6f62c87a72c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 00:00:57 +0200mimi_vx(~mimi@2a01:490:16:1026:b095:5d2a:db18:3291) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-25 00:01:53 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
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2020-10-25 00:12:40 +0200tirej(~tirej@unaffiliated/tirej) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-10-25 00:12:44 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@nwcsnbsc03w-47-55-225-82.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-25 00:20:31 +0200irc_user(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yozgrvcgtawskeqy)
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2020-10-25 00:34:52 +0200mimi_vx(~mimi@2a01:490:16:1026:b095:5d2a:db18:3291)
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2020-10-25 00:37:22 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.123.118)
2020-10-25 00:41:57 +0200hackagecabal-fmt 0.1.5 - Format .cabal files https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-fmt-0.1.5 (phadej)
2020-10-25 00:44:25 +0200Wuzzy(~Wuzzy@p5790ef06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Wuzzy)
2020-10-25 00:45:58 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc8f:46b9:ad7f:fbe6)
2020-10-25 00:46:07 +0200nukaniko
2020-10-25 00:46:23 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-10-25 00:48:38 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc8f:46b9:ad7f:fbe6) (Client Quit)
2020-10-25 00:48:39 +0200 <frdg> c_wraith: `(floor . max 0 . min 1 :: Double -> Int) vs (floor . (*5) . max 0 . min 1 :: Double -> Int)` isn't the image of both of these functions infinite?
2020-10-25 00:49:45 +0200 <c_wraith> nope. The first one has the image [0, 1]. the second has the image [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
2020-10-25 00:50:09 +0200 <c_wraith> err. those are finite sets, not some sort of range notation
2020-10-25 00:51:13 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc8f:46b9:ad7f:fbe6)
2020-10-25 00:51:46 +0200 <frdg> I see it now
2020-10-25 00:51:48 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-25 00:52:33 +0200 <frdg> there goes my theory
2020-10-25 00:54:40 +0200 <monsterchrom> oops
2020-10-25 00:54:42 +0200 <c_wraith> monsterchrom was referring to a simpler statement, which *is* trivially true. Composing two functions together results in an image with a size at most the max of the sizes of the two individual functions.
2020-10-25 00:55:03 +0200 <c_wraith> But when you are allowed to insert intermediate steps, things are no longer that simple
2020-10-25 00:56:04 +0200Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) .:. <Ashley> my porn is hidden in a folder called "BBC Micro Emulator")
2020-10-25 00:56:46 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-25 00:58:20 +0200Jimi2M0ITI(~JimiMM0JT@unaffiliated/jimimm0jtx)
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2020-10-25 01:02:07 +0200Jimi2M0ITI(~JimiMM0JT@unaffiliated/jimimm0jtx)
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2020-10-25 01:02:31 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
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2020-10-25 01:03:14 +0200renzhi(~renzhi@modemcable070.17-177-173.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:03:32 +0200Jimi2M0ITI(~JimiMM0JT@unaffiliated/jimimm0jtx)
2020-10-25 01:03:50 +0200Neo--(~neo@188-230-154-134.dynamic.t-2.net)
2020-10-25 01:04:39 +0200Jimi2M0ITI(~JimiMM0JT@unaffiliated/jimimm0jtx) (Client Quit)
2020-10-25 01:05:22 +0200Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 01:08:55 +0200christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-10-25 01:09:27 +0200mimi_vx(~mimi@2a01:490:16:1026:b095:5d2a:db18:3291) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:09:34 +0200kewa(55aec1a1@85.174.193.161)
2020-10-25 01:12:07 +0200Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) .:. <Ashley> my porn is hidden in a folder called "BBC Micro Emulator")
2020-10-25 01:12:44 +0200Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 01:12:47 +0200 <kewa> Hi! Is this chat alive?
2020-10-25 01:12:49 +0200Neo--(~neo@188-230-154-134.dynamic.t-2.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:13:33 +0200christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:15:55 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc8f:46b9:ad7f:fbe6) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-25 01:16:48 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc8f:46b9:ad7f:fbe6)
2020-10-25 01:19:25 +0200 <Ariakenom> kewa, sure
2020-10-25 01:19:38 +0200xerox_(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox)
2020-10-25 01:20:45 +0200geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-10-25 01:23:46 +0200 <koz_> kewa: No, we are all turingrade AIs.
2020-10-25 01:27:21 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-25 01:29:16 +0200invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:29:21 +0200kewa(55aec1a1@85.174.193.161) ()
2020-10-25 01:31:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:31:59 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:36:00 +0200 <monsterchrom> That counts as alive.
2020-10-25 01:38:56 +0200andybkof2001(~andybkof2@fixed-187-188-9-123.totalplay.net)
2020-10-25 01:38:57 +0200damianfral(~damianfra@177.red-2-142-221.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 01:39:05 +0200 <andybkof2001> made your area like quebec and speak german, in the frontier méxico with texas,the flag is in the frontier, in horizont orange almost dark like brick in up, in half gray aluminum, and in down blue sky day, with letter L red shinning thick, no very thick just 1 cm and 4 mm with red fire in the right side in line like shadow the same red shinnig 9 mm right, at the left side 1 mm of shadow,
2020-10-25 01:39:05 +0200 <andybkof2001> and in down 3 mm of shadow red shinnig all the shadows stiked at the L the L no with waves in line 9 mm of fire 1 left and 3 in down , the L in the center of the new german flag occupying the entire gray strip with the shadow, the name is Deutcsh, coin deutsches. let the giants play baskectball with the browns.learn german https://app.memrise.com/course/920/5000-german-words-top-87/1/ copy
2020-10-25 01:39:05 +0200 <andybkof2001> the adress of the page, and paste somewhere, for read it later, go at the bookseller and ask for the diccionary english german and read it verbatim, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6DNjM4s-zw
2020-10-25 01:40:24 +0200ChanServ+o monsterchrom
2020-10-25 01:40:30 +0200monsterchrom+b *!*@fixed-187-188-9-123.totalplay.net
2020-10-25 01:40:30 +0200andybkof2001monsterchromandybkof2001
2020-10-25 01:40:44 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-10-25 01:45:17 +0200monsterchrom-b+b *!*@fixed-187-188-9-123.totalplay.net andybkof2001!*@*
2020-10-25 01:45:36 +0200 <monsterchrom> Let's see how well that holds up.
2020-10-25 01:45:45 +0200 <Kolkrabe> Looking at some nicks, I would say the channel is undead rather than alive :p
2020-10-25 01:45:46 +0200monsterchrom-o monsterchrom
2020-10-25 01:45:53 +0200 <monsterchrom> Haha
2020-10-25 01:47:19 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-25 01:49:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-10-25 01:58:04 +0200Zer000(~Zer000@64.137.132.26)
2020-10-25 02:00:02 +0100[42]1(~42]@195.206.169.184) ()
2020-10-25 02:00:05 +0100Zer000(~Zer000@64.137.132.26) (Client Quit)
2020-10-25 02:02:06 +0100 <c_wraith> I've been told I should return to life for the holiday, but that'd just be too confusing.
2020-10-25 02:02:11 +0100 <c_wraith> :t confusing
2020-10-25 02:02:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b
2020-10-25 02:02:52 +0100Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) .:. <Ashley> my porn is hidden in a folder called "BBC Micro Emulator")
2020-10-25 02:04:00 +0100Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net)
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2020-10-25 02:06:11 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-25 02:09:02 +0100 <monsterchrom> Another direction you could consider is elevating from a wraith to an abstract factory that makes more wraiths.
2020-10-25 02:09:09 +0100jedws(~jedws@101.184.148.229)
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2020-10-25 02:34:14 +0100Foritus(~buggery@cpc91334-watf11-2-0-cust153.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) .:. <Ashley> my porn is hidden in a folder called "BBC Micro Emulator")
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2020-10-25 02:11:10 +0100dmwitdmwitch
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2020-10-25 02:13:06 +0100 <c_wraith> monsterchrom: that's way too terrifying
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2020-10-25 02:18:21 +0100nitrixnitrix-or-treat
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2020-10-25 04:16:53 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
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2020-10-25 04:19:47 +0100 <guy> hey guys
2020-10-25 04:20:13 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@115.215.42.47)
2020-10-25 04:20:52 +0100 <guy> is this the place to ask haskell related questions
2020-10-25 04:21:25 +0100 <xacktm> check the /topic
2020-10-25 04:21:30 +0100 <xacktm> tl;dr yes :)
2020-10-25 04:22:43 +0100 <guy> okay thanks :) I don't really know how to check that
2020-10-25 04:23:03 +0100 <guy> I'm having a problem installing a Win32 package with cabal
2020-10-25 04:25:10 +0100 <guy> Apparently it couldn't execute one of the files in the package Win32-2.8.3.0, ".../ghc/inplace/mingw/bin/ld.exe"
2020-10-25 04:26:12 +0100servo(~servo@41.92.101.100)
2020-10-25 04:26:13 +0100 <guy> I'm a bit lost on what to do here because this seems to be a problem with the package uploaded
2020-10-25 04:29:09 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-25 04:29:33 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 04:30:55 +0100 <davean> Thats not in the package, thats in your GHC install I think
2020-10-25 04:32:54 +0100 <davean> ld is the linker
2020-10-25 04:32:54 +0100infinisil(~infinisil@NixOS/user/infinisil) (Quit: Configuring ZNC, sorry for the joins/quits!)
2020-10-25 04:33:37 +0100 <guy> oh okay thank you
2020-10-25 04:34:11 +0100 <guy> I was trying to install a later version of Win32 than the one that is included with the Haskell Platform
2020-10-25 04:34:17 +0100 <davean> I'd help you more but I haven't seen a windows system in decades
2020-10-25 04:34:22 +0100infinisil(~infinisil@NixOS/user/infinisil)
2020-10-25 04:34:39 +0100 <guy> that's fine, thank you
2020-10-25 04:34:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 04:36:24 +0100 <guy> I think I'm in a bit over my head with this stuff anyways. I'll just stick to what I have and see what I can do
2020-10-25 04:36:41 +0100 <jle`> i wanted to maybe write a haskell clone for Among Us, but i'm stuck because I can't think of a good pun
2020-10-25 04:36:50 +0100 <jle`> i guess this is most projects die huh
2020-10-25 04:36:57 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-136.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 04:37:05 +0100 <guy> Lamdang Us
2020-10-25 04:37:28 +0100 <guy> Lambdang us
2020-10-25 04:37:29 +0100 <jle`> hmm
2020-10-25 04:38:09 +0100guy(4c68d95d@c-76-104-217-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-25 04:38:14 +0100 <jle`> :(
2020-10-25 04:38:26 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> Existential Crisis :> but by the time you're done the fad will be over
2020-10-25 04:38:38 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-081.citykom.de)
2020-10-25 04:38:43 +0100 <jle`> mostly a learning exercise :)
2020-10-25 04:38:55 +0100 <jle`> Forall Us
2020-10-25 04:39:01 +0100 <jle`> :O
2020-10-25 04:41:04 +0100joaj(~joaj@2001:818:e326:8200:9fc:6bde:c18a:1771) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-25 04:41:26 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-25 04:41:45 +0100 <koz_> jle`: Exists a.
2020-10-25 04:41:50 +0100 <jle`> Amonadung Us
2020-10-25 04:42:12 +0100 <jle`> koz_: :o
2020-10-25 04:42:24 +0100 <jle`> Exists a. Imposter a
2020-10-25 04:42:38 +0100 <jle`> exists a. Imposter a => a
2020-10-25 04:43:38 +0100 <koz_> 'Exists a' gets across the point much better at least.
2020-10-25 04:43:43 +0100 <c_wraith> jle`: I already stole a perfect option.
2020-10-25 04:43:44 +0100jedws(~jedws@101.184.148.229) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-25 04:45:33 +0100jedws(~jedws@101.184.148.229)
2020-10-25 04:45:45 +0100 <jle`> c_wraith: oh?
2020-10-25 04:45:58 +0100 <jle`> koz_: nicely succinct
2020-10-25 04:45:58 +0100 <c_wraith> (look at my hostmask)
2020-10-25 04:46:52 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 04:47:01 +0100 <jle`> heh heh
2020-10-25 04:47:06 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> neat hostmask but what's a jaldabaoth?
2020-10-25 04:47:38 +0100 <koz_> MarcelineVQ: Some DnD monster I think?
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2020-10-25 04:51:55 +0100dansho(~dansho@ip68-108-167-185.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-10-25 04:52:21 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-10-25 04:58:08 +0100 <emmanuel_erc> Is there some truth to the claim that the Haskell compiler is slow? (This was a statement a coworker said to me)
2020-10-25 04:59:12 +0100 <monsterchrom> Depends on how much you're prepared to bend "some" "truth".
2020-10-25 04:59:55 +0100 <monsterchrom> Type inference is worst-case expoential time, there will be a few carefully designed terms and types that force that.
2020-10-25 05:00:22 +0100 <monsterchrom> The fact remains that this worst-case doesn't happen to useful programs.
2020-10-25 05:00:57 +0100 <c_wraith> There are definitely things you can do to make your program slow
2020-10-25 05:01:15 +0100 <c_wraith> GHC isn't great with huge string literals or types with thousands of constructors
2020-10-25 05:03:02 +0100 <monsterchrom> I actually know an actual worst-case example from Okasaki. And yet, I don't just go around citing it as though it's the only thing you should care. In fact, I avoid citing it because clearly it is such a bizarre example you shouldn't care.
2020-10-25 05:03:34 +0100 <monsterchrom> I bet your coworker is the opposite. Never saw any actual example, and still go around spreading hearsay like it's the only important thing.
2020-10-25 05:03:40 +0100 <c_wraith> GHC definitely stresses linx's default linker, too
2020-10-25 05:03:58 +0100 <c_wraith> *linux
2020-10-25 05:04:05 +0100 <monsterchrom> You should put such people on your ignore list.
2020-10-25 05:06:38 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-25 05:06:53 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-25 05:08:05 +0100 <monsterchrom> For life is too short to investigate every hearsay where the speaker doesn't bother to cite evidence or give examples.
2020-10-25 05:08:18 +0100mimi_vx(~mimi@2a01:490:16:1026:b095:5d2a:db18:3291)
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2020-10-25 05:08:42 +0100 <gattytto> hello, I'm trying to build the haskell-servant minimum example using ghc-8.10.1 and I have added all the recommended extra-deps to stack.yaml. But while building aeson it says "out of memory". I have tried adding --ghc-options=" -j1 +RST -MXXXXM" with no avail
2020-10-25 05:08:51 +0100dansho(~dansho@ip68-108-167-185.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-10-25 05:08:56 +0100 <gattytto> is there anything else I can do to avoid memory exhaustion? both in cabal build and stack build
2020-10-25 05:09:28 +0100dansho(~dansho@ip68-108-167-185.lv.lv.cox.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-25 05:09:44 +0100 <monsterchrom> I'm afraid --ghc-options="-j1" is barking up the wrong tree.
2020-10-25 05:10:11 +0100 <monsterchrom> It would be stack itself and cabal itself that decides to spawn 4 instance of GHC at the same time.
2020-10-25 05:10:31 +0100 <monsterchrom> as opposed to one instance of GHC deciding to spawn 4 jobs
2020-10-25 05:10:53 +0100 <monsterchrom> Your -j1 should be given to stack or cabal
2020-10-25 05:10:53 +0100 <gattytto> ah yes cabal has -j arg
2020-10-25 05:11:02 +0100 <gattytto> thanks I'll try that
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2020-10-25 05:36:28 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> aeson is pretty heavy by itself still so fingers crossed
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2020-10-25 06:37:28 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
2020-10-25 06:38:31 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
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2020-10-25 06:55:34 +0100Kolkrabe(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-25 06:56:09 +0100 <emb> Does anyone have any tips on finding remote part time Haskell dev gig?
2020-10-25 06:56:14 +0100jsynacek_(~jsynacek@ip-185-149-130-112.kmenet.cz)
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2020-10-25 07:00:01 +0100gnomus(~gnomus@s91904426.blix.com) ()
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2020-10-25 09:49:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> Is there a way to tell ghc, in the context of 'stack build'/'cabal build' to compile a particular module _first_?
2020-10-25 09:49:34 +0100lxsameer(~lxsameer@unaffiliated/lxsameer) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2020-10-25 09:49:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> there are multiple modules still to be compiled, but I want it to give me the errors for a particular module A first
2020-10-25 09:50:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> (assume of course that A has no predecessors in the graph of modules still to be compiled :) )
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2020-10-25 11:35:14 +0100 <maerwald> I don't know how cabal orders things when multiple modules are on the same depgraph level, but it can either be module name or order in the .cabal file?
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2020-10-25 11:38:08 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
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2020-10-25 11:38:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> I don't know either, but I do know it's unstable :)
2020-10-25 11:39:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> as in, I compile and get errors for A, fix some (but not all), recompile, and then it does B first
2020-10-25 11:39:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> which is annoying and my reason for asking :p
2020-10-25 11:40:28 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-10-25 11:42:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> I have the same problems when e.g. compiling C code with a Makefile, but then I know how to tell it to make one particular object file only
2020-10-25 11:42:17 +0100accusa7i0ns(~marcog@2001:1c01:3d07:3500:24f0:c846:ec9a:46f0)
2020-10-25 11:43:04 +0100 <accusa7i0ns> hello!
2020-10-25 11:44:49 +0100accusa7i0ns(~marcog@2001:1c01:3d07:3500:24f0:c846:ec9a:46f0) ()
2020-10-25 11:45:04 +0100shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-133-58.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-25 11:45:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> bye!
2020-10-25 11:45:44 +0100accusa7i0ns(~marcog@2001:1c01:3d07:3500:24f0:c846:ec9a:46f0)
2020-10-25 11:45:57 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806e0ec008c2e48c416af9de6.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie)
2020-10-25 11:46:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> welcome back accusa7i0ns :p
2020-10-25 11:46:26 +0100 <accusa7i0ns> thank you tomsmeding! :)
2020-10-25 11:48:17 +0100tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2020-10-25 11:49:06 +0100 <accusa7i0ns> Hi all :) I am new to this chat and to IRCs in general, is there a regulation that I should read?
2020-10-25 11:49:44 +0100polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:45df:95e2:ff94:b698) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-10-25 11:50:28 +0100 <maerwald> https://wiki.haskell.org/IRC_channel#Principles
2020-10-25 11:50:31 +0100 <maerwald> maybe that?
2020-10-25 11:50:35 +0100 <maerwald> not sure how up2date
2020-10-25 11:51:57 +0100 <maerwald> I feel IRC here was more diverse couple of years ago. Maybe slack and discord took away the user base
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2020-10-25 11:52:21 +0100 <accusa7i0ns> thanks maerwald, I'll give it a look!
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2020-10-25 12:12:47 +0100 <juri_> wow. so, i've now written a barely passable slicer in haskell.
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2020-10-25 12:33:06 +0100 <merijn> maerwald, tomsmeding: afaik cabal *doesn't* order modules, it call "ghc" (aka as "ghc --make", historically) which does its own internal dependency scheduling of modules
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2020-10-25 12:36:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> merijn: perhaps the order of the modules Cabal places on ghc's command line matters? (I haven't checked whether this correlates with the behaviour)
2020-10-25 12:37:31 +0100 <merijn> tomsmeding: If you wanna typecheck just single files you quickly get to things like ghcide :p
2020-10-25 12:37:43 +0100 <merijn> and/or hls
2020-10-25 12:38:05 +0100 <__monty__> Or ghcid
2020-10-25 12:38:11 +0100 <merijn> ghcid can't do single files
2020-10-25 12:38:23 +0100 <merijn> It can only recompile the entire project using cabal
2020-10-25 12:38:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> re:ghcide: ... which I have to restart after ~every file I edit because either its file tracking is completely borked, or the interaction between ghcide and languageclient-neovim is crap
2020-10-25 12:38:39 +0100 <merijn> Or rather, the only way you can get it to compile single files is if you already know how to do so
2020-10-25 12:38:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> quite possibly the latter though
2020-10-25 12:38:48 +0100 <merijn> In which case tomsmeding wouldn't be having this issue :p
2020-10-25 12:39:07 +0100 <merijn> tomsmeding: I suspect languageclient-neovim
2020-10-25 12:39:07 +0100invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
2020-10-25 12:39:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> yeah
2020-10-25 12:39:18 +0100 <merijn> It's working pretty great for me with vim + ale
2020-10-25 12:39:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> it did file watching in a completely broken way before, which I fixed with a PR, but there's probably more off
2020-10-25 12:39:45 +0100 <merijn> ale supports neovim, I think?
2020-10-25 12:40:01 +0100 <merijn> Yeah, it does
2020-10-25 12:40:50 +0100 <merijn> I quickly hacked together this a year ago (apparently) https://github.com/merijn/dotfiles/blob/master/dotfiles/vim/autoload/ale_linters/haskell/ghcide.vim
2020-10-25 12:40:56 +0100 <merijn> 0 warranty, though :p
2020-10-25 12:41:22 +0100 <merijn> https://github.com/merijn/dotfiles/blob/master/dotfiles/vim/ftplugin/haskell.vim#L1-L9
2020-10-25 12:42:11 +0100tomsmedinglooks
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2020-10-25 12:45:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> "0 warranty" <- it looks fairly safe though
2020-10-25 12:47:22 +0100xerox_(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox)
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2020-10-25 12:48:58 +0100 <merijn> Should be, but everything I write is "free as in puppies"
2020-10-25 12:49:02 +0100 <merijn> :p
2020-10-25 12:49:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> merijn: I'll try setting up ALE soon, if it works nicely for you then it probably will for me
2020-10-25 12:49:18 +0100 <merijn> (aka "you'll have to pay if you want if fixed" ;))
2020-10-25 12:49:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> lol sure
2020-10-25 12:49:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> isn't that with ~all open source
2020-10-25 12:49:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> also thanks :)
2020-10-25 12:50:19 +0100 <merijn> For simple stuff ghcide has been working well for ages, for my phd project it's a bit hit and miss, since that's a Haskell tooling stress test of v2-build, CApiFFI, foreign code and TH :p
2020-10-25 12:51:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> I have some TH and foreign code but mostly in modules I'm not touching, so we'll see :)
2020-10-25 12:51:12 +0100tomsmedingis off to eat some lunch
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2020-10-25 14:47:11 +0100 <ninoc> prova
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2020-10-25 15:29:57 +0100 <nschoe> Hi everyone, just a quick question: I've been cross-compiling aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu-ghc-8.6.5 for the past ... 4-5 hours on my laptop (this is a GHC that I'm compiling for my Raspberry Pi 3).
2020-10-25 15:29:57 +0100 <nschoe> It's not the first time I've done this (because I keep forgetting to add it as gc-root), but I'm curious: how come it doesn't fetch it from a binary cache?
2020-10-25 15:30:11 +0100 <nschoe> Is it because there is not binary cache for aarch64 binaries?
2020-10-25 15:30:37 +0100 <nschoe> Oh sh*t wrong IRC channel, sorry :/
2020-10-25 15:31:17 +0100 <merijn> nschoe: There's no official aarch64 binary, afaik, that's probably why?
2020-10-25 15:31:52 +0100 <uhrenmacher> ahh, hey ma haskell ppl, nice to c ya'! Ok, I know Python, Java, Javscript, Bash and C, but since I really wanted to learn a proper lang, I would like to learn something like Lisp or Haskell. What are the main differnces between Lisp and Haskell? I run Void Linux atm, so compaitibility in terms of compilers shouldn't be a problem.
2020-10-25 15:32:01 +0100 <nschoe> merijn: I'm running NixOS and I was asking about that :)
2020-10-25 15:32:02 +0100 <uhrenmacher> Like why do you use Haskell and not Lisp?
2020-10-25 15:32:07 +0100 <geekosaur> "binary cache" tells me that was a nix question
2020-10-25 15:32:23 +0100 <nschoe> geekosaur: it was indeed :)
2020-10-25 15:32:56 +0100 <nschoe> geekosaur: I thought I was in the #nixos-aarch64 IRC channel, but it switched back to #haskell for some reason (prob. an unwanted mouse wheel scroll ^^)
2020-10-25 15:33:45 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112)
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2020-10-25 15:40:42 +0100 <Zetagon> uhrenmacher: Common Lisp and Haskell doesn't have that much in common with each other. Haskell has a nice static type system, is purely functional and uses non-strict evaluation. Common Lisp is homoiconic (code and data is basically the same thing and have the same syntax which means it has a simple syntax and powerful macros.
2020-10-25 15:41:08 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-25 15:41:57 +0100hackagetasty 1.4 - Modern and extensible testing framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/tasty-1.4 (RomanCheplyaka)
2020-10-25 15:43:19 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
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2020-10-25 15:45:25 +0100 <merijn> uhrenmacher: eh, I would sooner ask what the similarities between lisp and haskell are, tbh
2020-10-25 15:45:36 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-25 15:46:21 +0100 <merijn> And beyond "you can define functions and variables" I can't think of a whole lotta similarities...
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2020-10-25 15:49:13 +0100 <Zetagon> Except both being programming languages
2020-10-25 15:50:08 +0100 <Zetagon> dammit I forgot to close my parenthesis )
2020-10-25 15:53:24 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysawl9rr13i61o92.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-25 15:53:45 +0100son0p(~son0p@181.136.122.143)
2020-10-25 15:55:06 +0100 <asheshambasta> for cabal errors like these https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/657363a06647b4e56170be2824c05360, what's the best way to go about debugging them? From what I can see, cabal says that packages servant-reflex & bulmex disagree on the reflex version to use. However, I've gone through the source of servant-reflex (its being depended on locally) and removed all bounds on the reflex versions I could find.
2020-10-25 15:55:12 +0100moy(5a319fdb@lfbn-nan-1-68-219.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-10-25 15:55:36 +0100moyGuest63439
2020-10-25 15:55:37 +0100 <Guest63439> hey, im struggling with a really simple task... i would like to print a map in console for debugging purpose
2020-10-25 15:56:12 +0100 <Guest63439> im trying to use trace from Debug.trace but it prints nothing for now
2020-10-25 15:56:27 +0100 <voso534> and what is the problem? If keys and values have Show instances, just print it. Also you can you some pretty-print library
2020-10-25 15:57:05 +0100 <Guest63439> im trying to figure how to actually print
2020-10-25 15:57:16 +0100 <voso534> maybe your mp is empty? Is it possible? Try to convert it to a list and print it with the trace
2020-10-25 15:57:37 +0100 <Guest63439> i dont even print the string that i pass as first argument
2020-10-25 15:57:52 +0100 <voso534> maybe the value is not evaluating at all
2020-10-25 15:58:11 +0100 <Guest63439> https://pastebin.com/f03b2g3s i would like to print newState
2020-10-25 15:58:41 +0100nschoe(~quassel@2a01:e0a:3c4:c7b0:dcff:77c9:c809:5636) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-25 15:58:42 +0100 <Guest63439> by for example adding : trace "hello" newState after the let declarations
2020-10-25 15:58:55 +0100 <fendor_> asheshambasta, this looks weird to me: `reflex==0.7.1.0/installed-1Wm` are you using ghcjs?
2020-10-25 15:58:58 +0100fendor_fendor
2020-10-25 15:59:09 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-25 15:59:17 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor_: yes, I'm using reflex-platform to fire up nix-shells with the dependencies.
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2020-10-25 15:59:40 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 I usually add print on the first line, if it works, then in the next line and so on and... then I find where no more printing :)
2020-10-25 15:59:55 +0100nschoe(~quassel@2a01:e0a:3c4:c7b0:f4b9:93d:93b4:5b2e)
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2020-10-25 16:00:01 +0100xmj1(~xmj@154.13.1.56) ()
2020-10-25 16:00:14 +0100 <fendor> asheshambasta, then I guess that servant-reflex depends on a pre-installed version of reflex... similar to how ghc only works with a pre-installed version of base. Would be my uneducated guess here
2020-10-25 16:00:26 +0100 <asheshambasta> And in this case, servant-reflex is an overriden package, which I'm including via callCabal2nix on some path. When I drop to this path and fire up a nix-shell with a cabal repl, I can confirm that the package compiles at the same reflex-platform verison.
2020-10-25 16:00:33 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 `If the MVar is currently empty, takeMVar will wait until it is full. ` - maybe takeMVar is waiting?
2020-10-25 16:00:48 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: pre-installed?
2020-10-25 16:01:15 +0100 <Guest63439> voso534 i dont think so since the function keep being called recursively
2020-10-25 16:01:24 +0100 <Guest63439> i was wondering if syntaxically, the way is use trace is correct
2020-10-25 16:01:34 +0100 <Guest63439> i*
2020-10-25 16:01:39 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 even hGetLine may wait.... Try to add print as the first line of your function
2020-10-25 16:01:44 +0100 <merijn> Guest63439: What are you calling it with, though?
2020-10-25 16:02:00 +0100 <merijn> Guest63439: Because if the first call to "talk" gets an empty MVar it will block and stay empty forever
2020-10-25 16:02:42 +0100 <fendor> asheshambasta, like, for a single ghc version, you can't switch the version of base that it uses, right? You will get a similar error message with cabal. Maybe it is the same for ghcjs, you can't change the reflex version for your ghcjs, but some dependency needs another reflex version.
2020-10-25 16:03:17 +0100 <fendor> in that sense, every ghc version comes with a base version pre-installed in its packagedb that can not be changed.
2020-10-25 16:03:33 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 I mean something like
2020-10-25 16:03:36 +0100 <voso534> ```
2020-10-25 16:03:52 +0100 <Guest63439> yep if i add a print at the top of the function i can see it every time i should
2020-10-25 16:03:58 +0100 <voso534> heck... how to write multiline here? )
2020-10-25 16:04:00 +0100 <Guest63439> the MVar should never be empty
2020-10-25 16:04:07 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 16:04:40 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: correct, although I'd expect there to be a way to verify that? There's nothing in the servant-reflex.cabal file that I consider suspect.
2020-10-25 16:04:45 +0100 <merijn> Guest63439: You're not calling talk (well, except recursively) in that code
2020-10-25 16:04:48 +0100 <voso534> OK, what happens with the print after hGetLine? Is it shown?
2020-10-25 16:05:03 +0100 <Guest63439> i didnt past the whole script
2020-10-25 16:05:03 +0100gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-25 16:05:05 +0100 <merijn> Guest63439: Without seeing how you initially call "talk" it's impossible to say
2020-10-25 16:05:38 +0100 <Guest63439> how woud you trace the let called "newState" in this function ?
2020-10-25 16:05:48 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112)
2020-10-25 16:06:03 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: not to forget, going to the locally checked out servant-reflex dir., I'm able to update its reflex-platform branch/rev to the same as my project (that depends on servant-reflex), and I can successfully run `nix-shell --run 'cabal new-repl'`; which, I assume, would use the same GHC/GHCJS version?
2020-10-25 16:06:06 +0100 <merijn> @quote refreshing.desert
2020-10-25 16:06:06 +0100 <lambdabot> chromatic says: My productivity increased when Autrijus told me about Haskell's trace function. He called it a refreshing desert in the oasis of referential transparency.
2020-10-25 16:06:10 +0100 <merijn> Guest63439: ^^
2020-10-25 16:06:30 +0100 <merijn> See the Debug.Trace module
2020-10-25 16:06:45 +0100 <voso534> you can wrap newState everywhere where do you like - right hand of let for example. If it's evaluating then it will be shown on the console
2020-10-25 16:06:45 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.180.36) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 16:07:04 +0100 <fendor> asheshambasta, hm, if my theory holds, then it is only coincidentally a dependency problem with servant-reflex. You can try to remove that dependency and see if it finds a build-plan.
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2020-10-25 16:07:20 +0100Gurkenglas_Gurkenglas
2020-10-25 16:07:34 +0100 <asheshambasta> If I remove servant-reflex as a dependency, things build.
2020-10-25 16:07:46 +0100 <voso534> but I think if you will add all those `print`s (after each line), then you will see that the code is blocked somewhere - it's my hypotheses
2020-10-25 16:08:07 +0100 <asheshambasta> I didn't even know what cabal meant with .../installed-...
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2020-10-25 16:08:09 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112)
2020-10-25 16:08:50 +0100 <fendor> oh well, if that works, I don't know then :(
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2020-10-25 16:09:32 +0100 <Guest63439> voso534 i tried and i can see that the code is executing from the start to the end, i think i dont understand how trace is supposed to be used inside a "do" statement
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2020-10-25 16:10:19 +0100 <asheshambasta> to me it seems like bulmex and servant-reflex cannot agree on the reflex version; and the message with .../installed is a complete mystery to me; and I find no signs of version bounds on reflex in either bulmex nor in servant-reflex.
2020-10-25 16:10:22 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f2523003c23ef77843b8858.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-25 16:10:41 +0100 <asheshambasta> (both are overriden packages in my reflex `project`)
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2020-10-25 16:13:19 +0100 <fendor> asheshambasta, what reflex version does your project have when you do not depend on servant-reflex?
2020-10-25 16:13:45 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 hm... another idea is to declare strict variable with `let`, something like `let !newState = traceShow result (fst result)`
2020-10-25 16:14:14 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112)
2020-10-25 16:15:03 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: I believe that's decided by the pinned reflex-platform version no? If so, I'm using https://gist.github.com/asheshambasta/423fd27b04c37e2a8f14bf84068f139a#file-sources-json-L50-L61
2020-10-25 16:15:06 +0100vacm(~vacwm@70.23.92.191)
2020-10-25 16:15:32 +0100 <fendor> I have no idea about the reflex-platform, unfortunately
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2020-10-25 16:15:47 +0100 <Guest63439> voso534 here : https://pastebin.com/he2cch9e still printing nothing :/
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2020-10-25 16:16:40 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: AFAICS, it is a curated set of packages within nix (further curation, yay!))
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2020-10-25 16:18:27 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 1) do you see "test2" in the console? 2) more correct is IMHO to use trace/traceShow with the value which is used actually, `x` is not used, so maybe it's not evaluated at all. Better use trace/traceShow directly in the declaration of the newState
2020-10-25 16:19:28 +0100 <Guest63439> voso534 do see test2, i will try to use it in newState declaration
2020-10-25 16:21:11 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: anyway, thanks for helping. I think I understand cabal less and less as time goes on. :-)
2020-10-25 16:21:41 +0100 <fendor> not sure this is cabal's fault, though :/
2020-10-25 16:21:56 +0100 <fendor> the concept of pre-installed libraries is a bit hard to grasp, imo
2020-10-25 16:22:00 +0100byte[]1(~byte]@185.163.110.116)
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2020-10-25 16:23:39 +0100 <asheshambasta> yeah agreed, I think nix also makes this harder to understand.
2020-10-25 16:25:41 +0100 <Guest63439> ok i got something, thanks voso534... i guess newState is never executed, by calling trace inside the answer declaration it works
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2020-10-25 16:28:24 +0100 <voso534> Guest63439 (y) if something is not used in Haskell, it's not evaluated ("executed")
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2020-10-25 17:02:08 +0100 <emmanuel_erc> monsterchrom: Unfortunately, I couldn't put this coworker on the ignore list before. But I probably won't be working with them for much longer (and they're a PM to boot)
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2020-10-25 17:06:35 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: I think what would also help a lot is if cabal could specify where-from/why it required these bounds.
2020-10-25 17:07:25 +0100 <fendor> asheshambasta, totally agree, but explaining a build-plan is a ton of work. It already tries, but its output is mainly readable by experts
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2020-10-25 17:19:30 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: yeah, I think I'd just be happy with some indication of the cabal file it read those bounds from. It seems to say that bulmex needs a range of reflex versions, but I find no mention of these bounds in the locally checked out bulmex directoryl.
2020-10-25 17:20:09 +0100 <asheshambasta> I suspect these reflex version bounds come from a rejected version of bulmex, it does say that it rejects a set of bulmex versions.
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2020-10-25 17:34:38 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: there's this discussion too: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/9rmh9s/how_to_read_cabal_solver_failure_output/
2020-10-25 17:35:25 +0100 <fendor> yeah, I guess one issue is that dependency solving is NP hard and the certificate for a negative instance can explode so incredibly...
2020-10-25 17:35:50 +0100 <cebola> is there a ghc extension that allows turning an arbitrary expression into an infix op: [1] `(liftA2 (:))` [[]]
2020-10-25 17:36:46 +0100 <monsterchrom> No.
2020-10-25 17:38:02 +0100 <asheshambasta> fendor: but I still think that this error message is misleading. Given that I'm 100% sure that there's no mention of version bounds on reflex inside of servant-reflex (I've even grepped the entire tree), cabal should be telling me why it wants reflex == 0.7.1.0 for servant-reflex.
2020-10-25 17:38:53 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-10-25 17:40:28 +0100 <asheshambasta> I even verified that I'm not being an idiot and importing the source from a directory on my local machine with `callCabal2nix`. There's also no `package.yaml` etc in the servant-reflex tree (callCabal2nix secretly using hpack when it sees a package.yaml has also been a huge source of grief for me)
2020-10-25 17:41:17 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-25 17:41:20 +0100 <asheshambasta> (in all honesty, callCabal2nix when using hpack does output some hpack output, but that quickly gets lost since nix outputs are quite verbose.)
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2020-10-25 19:56:45 +0100 <ddellacosta> anyone know how I can pass an argument to floskell as my formatter when using lsp in emacs?
2020-10-25 19:59:43 +0100 <fendor> ddellacosta, configuration file in the top-level of your project?
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2020-10-25 20:01:06 +0100 <ddellacosta> fendor: I'm looking for something a bit more specific, like which file and what directives I need to use and etc. I've figured out that I can set the formatter in my emacs config, so wondering if there's a similar directive to set the formatter args, but not seeing one in the various emacs lsp packages
2020-10-25 20:01:49 +0100 <ddellacosta> figured there may be someone else in #haskell who has a similar setup but understand this may be niche
2020-10-25 20:01:57 +0100hackagejunit-xml 0.1.0.2 - Producing JUnit-style XML test reports. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/junit-xml-0.1.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg)
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2020-10-25 20:17:28 +0100hackagenri-prelude 0.2.0.0 - A Prelude inspired by the Elm programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-prelude-0.2.0.0 (JasperWoudenberg)
2020-10-25 20:18:28 +0100hackagenri-env-parser 0.1.0.2 - Read environment variables as settings to build 12-factor apps. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-env-parser-0.1.0.2 (JasperWoudenberg)
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2020-10-25 21:10:34 +0100Neo--(~neo@188-230-154-134.dynamic.t-2.net)
2020-10-25 21:10:54 +0100 <ixlun> Is it possible to pattern match on a partially applied Value constructor?
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2020-10-25 21:19:53 +0100 <opqdonut> ixlun: no
2020-10-25 21:20:21 +0100Katarushisu0(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 21:20:38 +0100 <geekosaur> that sounds confused. a partially applied constructor is a function, not a value, so no pattern matching
2020-10-25 21:20:45 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-25 21:20:45 +0100Katarushisu0Katarushisu
2020-10-25 21:20:55 +0100 <ixlun> I thought as much
2020-10-25 21:21:08 +0100 <ixlun> It probably smacks of bad design if I'm running into that problem
2020-10-25 21:21:14 +0100 <geekosaur> you do not have a thing of type Value to pattern match on, you have a (something -> Value)
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2020-10-25 21:34:28 +0100hackagetelegram-bot-simple 0.3.2 - Easy to use library for building Telegram bots. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/telegram-bot-simple-0.3.2 (swamp_agr)
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2020-10-25 21:36:20 +0100 <ixlun> Can anyone think of a nicer way to write this function? https://termbin.com/i0im
2020-10-25 21:36:33 +0100 <ixlun> It feels like there should be a nicer way than what I'm doing.
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2020-10-25 21:48:31 +0100 <koz_> If I want to catch two different types of exceptions, how would I spell that normally?
2020-10-25 21:48:38 +0100 <koz_> Do I have to do nested catches or something?
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2020-10-25 21:53:47 +0100 <monsterchrom> koz_: Control.Exception.catches is preferred. It also explains why nesting has an issue.
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2020-10-25 21:55:27 +0100 <koz_> monsterchrom: Thanks, that's actually very helpful!
2020-10-25 21:55:40 +0100 <koz_> ... also, I _just_ realized who you (likely) are and I feel super daft.
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2020-10-25 21:56:27 +0100 <Rembane> monsterchrom: Are you having a Halloween nick?
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2020-10-25 22:00:01 +0100larsan1(~larsan@154.13.1.56) ()
2020-10-25 22:00:34 +0100jbox(~atlas@unaffiliated/jbox)
2020-10-25 22:02:28 +0100 <monsterchrom> I was inspired by ghoulguy. Also watch out for dimwitch.
2020-10-25 22:02:48 +0100 <monsterchrom> ghoulguy in turn was inspired by people in #freenode or something.
2020-10-25 22:02:58 +0100jtmarjamestmartin
2020-10-25 22:03:19 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> he said deadk did it to him
2020-10-25 22:03:35 +0100 <monsterchrom> Yes this name game is stress-testing your unification algorithms! >:)
2020-10-25 22:04:39 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> I should think up a christmas name instead I guess
2020-10-25 22:05:20 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> MerrycelineCM is just nonsense tho
2020-10-25 22:05:32 +0100 <jbox> I'm having trouble getting a dev environment set up. Vim (coc.nvim) keeps yelling at me that it can't find `import XMonad`, but I can reload xmonad just fine and it doesn't complain
2020-10-25 22:06:53 +0100 <jbox> I should be using ghcup instead of my distribution package manager, right?
2020-10-25 22:07:01 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-25 22:07:54 +0100 <koz_> monsterchrom: Less unification, more fuzzy matching.
2020-10-25 22:07:58 +0100hackagereform-happstack 0.2.5.4 - Happstack support for reform. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reform-happstack-0.2.5.4 (JeremyShaw)
2020-10-25 22:08:14 +0100 <koz_> jbox: For _development_, 100% use ghcup,
2020-10-25 22:09:40 +0100 <Rembane> monsterchrom: Good stuff! :D
2020-10-25 22:13:14 +0100 <Uniaika> fantastic nick change, ghoulguy and monsterchrom
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2020-10-25 22:17:45 +0100 <jbox> vim (coc.vim) complains that: [coc.nvim] No [cradle](https://github.com/mpickering/hie-bios#hie-bios) found for .xmonad/xmonad.hs. Proceeding with [implicit cradle](https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie)
2020-10-25 22:17:54 +0100 <jbox> What should I do about this? I have cradle installed
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2020-10-25 22:18:05 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-10-25 22:18:09 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c71d20075517a899185d8fc.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-10-25 22:18:13 +0100 <jbox> wait, no I don't
2020-10-25 22:18:21 +0100 <jbox> I can't execute `cradle`, but ghcup says it's installed
2020-10-25 22:18:42 +0100 <maerwald> cradle?
2020-10-25 22:19:28 +0100 <koz_> ghcup doesn't install anything other than GHC, hie and cabal I don't think.
2020-10-25 22:19:46 +0100 <monsterchrom> Not hie, rather hls.
2020-10-25 22:19:52 +0100 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie
2020-10-25 22:19:56 +0100 <monsterchrom> Definitely doesn't know wth is "cradle".
2020-10-25 22:20:01 +0100 <maerwald> install that and run `gen-hie`
2020-10-25 22:20:07 +0100 <maerwald> that's probably what they meant
2020-10-25 22:20:20 +0100 <koz_> I should just start calling it 'that thing that does IDE stuff Koz doesn't care about starting with h'.
2020-10-25 22:20:30 +0100 <monsterchrom> :)
2020-10-25 22:20:33 +0100 <Uniaika> koz_: himplicit-hie? :D
2020-10-25 22:20:41 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-25 22:20:42 +0100 <koz_> (possibly with the appendage 'because it never works for him')
2020-10-25 22:20:43 +0100 <monsterchrom> You can always use "ghcup list" to see what ghcup knows.
2020-10-25 22:20:46 +0100 <koz_> Uniaika: Maybe that.
2020-10-25 22:21:01 +0100 <jbox> sorry, I meant cabal instead of cradle
2020-10-25 22:21:02 +0100 <maerwald> I also decided to use stack for hls, so that it doesn't interfere with the running cabal (hls invalidates cabal cache or something)
2020-10-25 22:21:03 +0100 <jbox> I can't execuet cabal
2020-10-25 22:21:25 +0100 <monsterchrom> OK, read up on "the PATH environment variable"
2020-10-25 22:22:15 +0100 <jbox> sorry, noob mistake LMAO
2020-10-25 22:22:37 +0100 <jbox> I'm so used to installing stuff with my distribution package managers hehe
2020-10-25 22:22:40 +0100 <monsterchrom> Everyone was a noob once. Not an excuse.
2020-10-25 22:22:59 +0100 <maerwald> jbox: source ~/.ghcup/env
2020-10-25 22:26:06 +0100ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 22:26:46 +0100 <jbox> maerwald: thank you! I would have just added stuff to $path in my .zshrc manually if you hadn't pointed that out :)
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2020-10-25 22:29:35 +0100 <jbox> vim (coc.nvim) still yells at me though. First it tells me that: No [cradle](https://github.com/mpickering/hie-bios#hie-bios) found for .xmonad/xmonad.hs. Proceeding with [implicit cradle](https://hackage.haskell.org/package/implicit-hie). Then it tells me that it can't find the 'XMonad' (and more) module, yet it exists, since xmonad runs fine and doesn't complain when I reload
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2020-10-25 22:31:57 +0100 <maerwald> there's a #haskell-ide-engine channel btw
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2020-10-25 22:32:19 +0100 <jbox> oh, thank you. This would probably be better there. Have a good one :)
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2020-10-25 22:58:24 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net)
2020-10-25 22:59:22 +0100 <ddellacosta> are there any standard ways of using persistent-generated records with lens, or rather, generating lenses?
2020-10-25 22:59:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-25 22:59:47 +0100tuple(~igloo@c-67-169-78-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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2020-10-25 23:01:24 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.98)
2020-10-25 23:02:15 +0100 <koz_> ddellacosta: What's persistent-generated?
2020-10-25 23:02:31 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-10-25 23:02:40 +0100 <Uniaika> koz_: generated by the 'persistent' library I'd say?
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2020-10-25 23:02:57 +0100 <ddellacosta> oh yeah, I mean the stuff that the quasi-quoter boilerplate spits out
2020-10-25 23:03:00 +0100 <koz_> Uniaika: Ah, well, I assumed the all-lower-case-and-hyphen referred to a package.
2020-10-25 23:03:08 +0100AceNovo(~chris@184.101.197.134)
2020-10-25 23:03:15 +0100 <ddellacosta> yeah I can understand, sorry for the confusing way I wrote that
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2020-10-25 23:04:08 +0100 <koz_> If you want 'generated lenses' in general, you might look at generic-lens.
2020-10-25 23:04:16 +0100 <koz_> However I cannot in good conscience recommend the use of that package.
2020-10-25 23:04:32 +0100 <koz_> (but then again, you're already using persistent so what's one more...)
2020-10-25 23:04:53 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-25 23:05:18 +0100 <koz_> s/might look/might wanna look/
2020-10-25 23:05:27 +0100 <ddellacosta> koz_: why would you not recommend generic-lens? (I actually just ended up there myself)
2020-10-25 23:05:38 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-25 23:05:38 +0100 <koz_> ddellacosta: Because it's type errors are unreadable gore.
2020-10-25 23:05:43 +0100 <koz_> s/it's/its/
2020-10-25 23:05:44 +0100 <ddellacosta> ah, fair enough
2020-10-25 23:05:49 +0100 <ddellacosta> I can imagine actually
2020-10-25 23:06:02 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 23:06:08 +0100 <koz_> And the entire premise of the library is _extremely_ flawed IMHO, since once you derive Generic for something, you can wave goodbye to _any_ internal invariants.
2020-10-25 23:06:38 +0100 <koz_> And honestly, most of the 'automagic via Generic' designs are at best confusing.
2020-10-25 23:06:41 +0100 <ddellacosta> koz_: what do you mean by "internal invariants?" Or I guess "internal" in particular
2020-10-25 23:06:54 +0100 <koz_> (and quite questionable anyway, since there isn't typically a One True Way to be a type class instance)
2020-10-25 23:07:14 +0100 <koz_> ddellacosta: Consider something like 'I have an Int in this data structure and it's always positive'.
2020-10-25 23:07:37 +0100 <koz_> You can do that with smart constructors easily, but once you have a Generic instance, it's basically broken (or breakable) and there's nothing you can do about it.
2020-10-25 23:07:49 +0100p3n(~p3n@217.198.124.246)
2020-10-25 23:07:50 +0100 <koz_> For a less trivial example, consider the internal representation of Data.Map.
2020-10-25 23:08:08 +0100 <koz_> It's a self-balancing binary tree, but the type system can't guarantee that its invariants hold.
2020-10-25 23:08:23 +0100 <koz_> Derive Generic for something like that, and those invariants are now breakable by _anyone_.
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2020-10-25 23:08:55 +0100 <koz_> Because when you derive Generic, you gain the ability to both _read_ the generic structure, but also create new ones and magic it into the type, provided it type checks.
2020-10-25 23:09:05 +0100 <koz_> And you can't opt out of the latter in _any way whatsoever_.
2020-10-25 23:09:23 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
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2020-10-25 23:09:58 +0100taurux(~taurux@net-93-144-108-10.cust.dsl.teletu.it)
2020-10-25 23:10:20 +0100 <ddellacosta> koz_: okay, I think I'm starting to understand what you mean, but in the end isn't it a reasonable tradeoff to make if you're using it in an application context? Presumably you're able to understand if it would break any invariants you wish to avoid breaking
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2020-10-25 23:10:43 +0100 <koz_> Uhh, I don't get how that even makes sense.
2020-10-25 23:11:00 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-10-25 23:11:02 +0100 <ddellacosta> well, maybe I don't understand your point yet then
2020-10-25 23:11:16 +0100 <koz_> You have a self-balancing binary tree. Its invariants can only be preserved by hiding its representation and not allowing people to construct one arbitrarily. Generic _exposes_ that representation and allows _anyone_ to construct one arbitrarily.
2020-10-25 23:11:21 +0100 <koz_> And there is _nothing_ you can do about it.
2020-10-25 23:11:56 +0100 <koz_> Once you derive Generic, any invariant over your data structure that is _not_ imposed by the type system is gone, and _anyone_ can violate said invariants.
2020-10-25 23:12:08 +0100 <koz_> It doesn't matter if it's 'an application context' or not.
2020-10-25 23:12:29 +0100 <koz_> If I can import your type, I can get its Generic instance and your invariants are screwed if I want them to be, end of story.
2020-10-25 23:13:17 +0100 <koz_> Not 'if I can import your type's data constructors'. Not 'if I can import your type's smart constructors'. If I can import your type _as such_.
2020-10-25 23:13:35 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:13:58 +0100 <jbox> is stack or cabal the recommended tool?
2020-10-25 23:14:10 +0100 <koz_> jbox: Do you _want_ to start a religious argument LOL?
2020-10-25 23:14:17 +0100 <koz_> More seriously, it depends on who you ask.
2020-10-25 23:14:17 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f2523003c23ef77843b8858.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:14:24 +0100 <jbox> oh, sorry, I didn't know that was a sensitive topic haha
2020-10-25 23:14:26 +0100 <koz_> I certainly have an opinion, everyone else does too.
2020-10-25 23:14:30 +0100 <jbox> Is it like npm vs yarn?
2020-10-25 23:14:30 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-10-25 23:14:40 +0100 <koz_> jbox: I wouldn't know because I'm wilfully ignorant of anything JS.
2020-10-25 23:14:47 +0100 <jbox> me too tbh haha
2020-10-25 23:14:50 +0100 <ddellacosta> koz_: I suppose what I meant was, one could decide not to derive generic on a Map, for example
2020-10-25 23:14:58 +0100 <koz_> ddellacosta: OK, sure, I agree.
2020-10-25 23:15:10 +0100 <koz_> But if you want to use generic-lens for your type, you have to derive Generic.
2020-10-25 23:15:20 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-10-25 23:15:23 +0100 <ddellacosta> I guess I'm not sure if you're suggesting that Generics are generally bad, or just in certain contexts?
2020-10-25 23:15:23 +0100 <koz_> Ditto for automagic Hashable, ditto automagic FromJSON/ToJSON, etc etc etc.
2020-10-25 23:15:53 +0100 <koz_> I'm suggesting that once you derive Generic you can't have any invariants on that type that the type system itself does not enforce.
2020-10-25 23:16:10 +0100 <koz_> Therefore, for any such type, anythign autoderivable via Generic basically becomes 'you give up your internal invariants lol'.
2020-10-25 23:16:24 +0100 <ddellacosta> koz_: okay, I guess I have to think harder about the implications of that. I'm mostly considering my experience of using generics in various contexts and finding it pretty nice
2020-10-25 23:16:41 +0100 <koz_> ddellacosta: YMMV. If the type already exposes its data constructors it makes no difference.
2020-10-25 23:16:49 +0100 <koz_> If it _doesn't_, then it could be an issue.
2020-10-25 23:17:29 +0100 <ddellacosta> in any case, I think I'm bailing on generic-lens for now lol
2020-10-25 23:17:49 +0100 <koz_> The issues behind generic-lens are mostly 'its type errors are an ungodly slurry'.
2020-10-25 23:18:16 +0100ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-25 23:18:16 +0100 <jbox> I was told that vim (coc.nvim) wasn't detecting the XMonad library because it wasn't in my global environment. Should I have installed xmonad with ghcup or something? I installed it with pacman (the arch linux package manager)
2020-10-25 23:18:21 +0100 <koz_> Speaking from having to understand them on numerous occasions, for a codebase I didn't write, when it was causing issues due to a _minor_ version lift of generic-lens.
2020-10-25 23:18:25 +0100 <ddellacosta> yeah I can't really justify adding it to this project at this point, I'm just being lazy because I know I can do what I want trivially with a traversal
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2020-10-25 23:20:02 +0100gattytto(b33e397e@179.62.57.126)
2020-10-25 23:20:10 +0100 <koz_> (I ended up just pinning to the lower version because otherwise it was impossible)
2020-10-25 23:20:22 +0100 <gattytto> good evening :waves:
2020-10-25 23:20:30 +0100 <koz_> gattytto: Sup?
2020-10-25 23:20:34 +0100 <ddellacosta> seems reasonable
2020-10-25 23:21:50 +0100 <gattytto> I came yesterday with questions about limiting memory to haskell builds. It seems like the following: cabal build -j1 --ghc-options=" +RTS -M3000M -RTS" ... works but the same using stack doesn't and triggers a "out of memory" error
2020-10-25 23:21:54 +0100 <gattytto> is this expectable?
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2020-10-25 23:22:23 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yancvgiiwbprfywu)
2020-10-25 23:22:37 +0100 <gattytto> this is the project I'm testing with: github/gattytto/example-servant-minimal
2020-10-25 23:23:13 +0100 <gattytto> my usecase is a web ide with a pre-packed dockerfile (based in official haskell's) that contains ghc 8.10.1 so I forked and touched the stack.yaml to add the extra-deps to it
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2020-10-25 23:23:26 +0100 <gattytto> which are a lot and specifically aeson produces the out of memory
2020-10-25 23:23:47 +0100 <koz_> aeson would, honestly.
2020-10-25 23:24:21 +0100 <koz_> gattytto: You might be able to avoid most of the extra-deps if you use a nightly.
2020-10-25 23:24:28 +0100 <koz_> I assume you're on an LTS snapshot?
2020-10-25 23:24:56 +0100 <gattytto> I'm using ghc-8.10.1 as resolver and system-ghc is the same, using 8.10.1-buster as the base image for my env
2020-10-25 23:25:13 +0100 <koz_> gattytto: ghc-8.10.1 is not a 'resolver' in the stack sense.
2020-10-25 23:25:20 +0100 <koz_> What's the 'resolver' field in your stack.yaml say?
2020-10-25 23:25:31 +0100 <gattytto> resolver: ghc-8.10.1
2020-10-25 23:25:39 +0100 <koz_> ... huh
2020-10-25 23:25:45 +0100 <koz_> That's a thing?
2020-10-25 23:25:58 +0100 <gattytto> yes it prevents it from re-downloading some other version of ghc to build
2020-10-25 23:26:05 +0100mimi_vx(~mimi@tulipan.habr.nat.praha12.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:26:05 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2020-10-25 23:26:06 +0100 <gattytto> and uses system's one instead
2020-10-25 23:26:23 +0100 <koz_> OK, well, then you might wanna wait for a stack expert.
2020-10-25 23:26:32 +0100 <gattytto> first time I try to build the forked project (probably made with 8.6.x) it starts recommending extra-deps
2020-10-25 23:26:51 +0100 <gattytto> so I add them all to extra-deps in stack.yaml, which ends up being around 98 of them xD
2020-10-25 23:27:15 +0100 <koz_> Ah, so it's just 'FPComplete never update any of their templates', lol.
2020-10-25 23:27:27 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:27:46 +0100 <gattytto> after a while using the mentioned cabal build line, I get: "Linking /projects/src/github.com/gattytto/example-servant-minimal/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.10.1/example-servant-minimal-0.0.0/x/example-servant-minimal/build/example-servant-minimal/example-servant-minimal ..."
2020-10-25 23:27:57 +0100 <gattytto> I'm guessing cabal made it
2020-10-25 23:28:34 +0100 <gattytto> but issuing: stack build -j1 --ghc-options=" +RTS -M3000M -RTS" ... triggers the oom
2020-10-25 23:28:41 +0100hyiltiz(~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:29:13 +0100 <gattytto> so my question is if either stack isn't passing the ghc options or ghc is doing stuff differently when called from cabal than when called from stack
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2020-10-25 23:39:50 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-10-25 23:41:44 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2020-10-25 23:42:28 +0100hackagepersistent-test 2.0.3.3 - Tests for Persistent https://hackage.haskell.org/package/persistent-test-2.0.3.3 (MaxGabriel)
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2020-10-25 23:53:17 +0100 <_deepfire> What's the catch about mixing unlifted types with regular types -- like f.e. using unboxed tuples as values in Data.Map.Map's?
2020-10-25 23:53:43 +0100 <_deepfire> Is it even possible?
2020-10-25 23:53:52 +0100 <monsterchrom> \∩/ Larry Paulson's book "ML for the working programmer" contains this sentence "This sort of things is easier in Haskell"
2020-10-25 23:54:46 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-10-25 23:55:00 +0100 <dolio> Hahaha.
2020-10-25 23:55:05 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-25 23:55:05 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-25 23:55:05 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-25 23:55:29 +0100 <dolio> _deepfire: No, it's not possible.
2020-10-25 23:56:06 +0100 <dolio> Unboxed tuples aren't just unlifted, they don't have a uniform calling convention, so it doesn't really make any sense.
2020-10-25 23:56:19 +0100 <monsterchrom> It is in a section that uses "L a = a x (unit -> L)" to implement lazy lists.
2020-10-25 23:57:00 +0100hyiltiz(~quassel@82.118.227.47)
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2020-10-25 23:57:00 +0100hyiltiz(~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz)
2020-10-25 23:57:16 +0100 <motte> hi, could anyone explain how to exception handling with the req http library?
2020-10-25 23:57:27 +0100 <motte> to do*
2020-10-25 23:57:51 +0100 <dolio> Are they actually lazy, though?
2020-10-25 23:57:56 +0100 <_deepfire> dolio: I see, thank you!
2020-10-25 23:58:03 +0100 <koz_> motte: I guess you want this? http://hackage.haskell.org/package/req-3.7.0/docs/Network-HTTP-Req.html#v:handleHttpException
2020-10-25 23:58:12 +0100 <motte> the documentation suggests to create my own monad and then define the handleHttpException method, but i'm not sure what that really means
2020-10-25 23:58:23 +0100 <dolio> Or just call-by-name?
2020-10-25 23:58:23 +0100 <motte> koz_: yes!
2020-10-25 23:58:37 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c71d20075517a899185d8fc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-25 23:58:56 +0100 <koz_> motte: If you don't need anything 'extra', you can just work in 'Req'.
2020-10-25 23:59:10 +0100 <koz_> If you don't understand what 'anything extra' means, basically use 'Req'.
2020-10-25 23:59:17 +0100crestfallen(~John@135-180-15-188.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2020-10-25 23:59:28 +0100 <koz_> So everywhere you see 'MonadHttp m', mentally sub 'm' for 'Req' in the signatures.