| 2025-11-20 00:34:35 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-20 01:07:48 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-11-20 01:58:13 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2025-11-20 02:17:46 +0100 | L29Ah | (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) L29Ah |
| 2025-11-20 02:19:17 +0100 | buzzoni | (~steven@2600:6c44:2e00:1e5b::1a92) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 2025-11-20 03:57:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> There is an idiot in ubuntu support channel who is afraid to upgrade to ubuntu 25.10 cuz he thinks xmonad dont work anymore. Please let him know he's wrong. |
| 2025-11-20 03:58:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> Ubuntu has not removed Xorg in any way. If you have GNOME desktop installed, using that will require using wayland, but won't affect xmonad in any possible way. |
| 2025-11-20 04:14:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> He's also in this channel btw, I wasnt suggesting come to ubuntu channel. |
| 2025-11-20 04:14:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur (@geekosaur:matrix.org)> That's correct. It does have knock-on effects on other desktop environments, but xmonad itself isn't affected |
| 2025-11-20 04:16:04 +0100 | OpenSource | (~OpenSourc@user/OpenSource) OpenSource |
| 2025-11-20 04:16:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <geekosaur (@geekosaur:matrix.org)> (but that bites me because I use xmonad with MATE and auth to Google services needs Gnome) |
| 2025-11-20 04:18:32 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> People in #support:ubuntu.com (https://matrix.to/#/#support:ubuntu.com) are arguing with me that Gnome/Ubuntu 25.10+ drop support for Xorg sessions doesn't affect Xmonad. They don't understand that some people use Gnome + Xmonad as their WM. |
| 2025-11-20 04:19:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Someone even called me an idiot because I brought that up. They're like Xmonad and gnome have nothing to do with one another. Clearly they don't understand the core of the problem. |
| 2025-11-20 04:23:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> in my defense, i jumped in late, it is only once i saw the argument in here that i understood the misunderstanding |
| 2025-11-20 04:24:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> also please don't call it gnome/ubuntu 25.10 that's part of the confusion |
| 2025-11-20 04:24:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> +cause if |
| 2025-11-20 04:25:25 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> that part is clear to me, its ubuntyu 25.10 that includes gnome 49 that doesnt include xsession |
| 2025-11-20 04:25:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> xmonad _can_ work on ubuntu 25.10 just not under GNOME |
| 2025-11-20 04:25:59 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> but, i am now trying to understand, and it seems there was a 3rd party gnome-session-xmonad that would allow using xmonad within gnome as the WM |
| 2025-11-20 04:26:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> i can only find it for jammy and earlier, but perhaps its somewhere else and works for noble or plucky |
| 2025-11-20 04:26:27 +0100 | <geekosaur> | uh, is that even possible? Gnome-flashback wouldn't be affected, since it's Gnome 2 with a Gnome 3 theme |
| 2025-11-20 04:26:51 +0100 | <geekosaur> | Gnome 3 window manager components are JS |
| 2025-11-20 04:27:43 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> sounds like the real question is, how did Nexilva get xmonad running under gnome |
| 2025-11-20 04:27:47 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and xmonad would need a major overhaul to work by plugging into a JS plugin |
| 2025-11-20 04:28:10 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> * gnome? |
| 2025-11-20 04:28:22 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> They're trying to argue about compositors etc. I'm simply informing them that there is a problem going forward in Ubuntu 25.10+ where gnome drops support for x11 sessions and only has Wayland session. |
| 2025-11-20 04:28:23 +0100 | <geekosaur> | if gnome-flashback exists, telling gnome 3 to run an external window manager uses it |
| 2025-11-20 04:28:33 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but that means you're actually running gnome 2 |
| 2025-11-20 04:28:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and there's about zero chance the gnome devs will release a new gnome 2 without X11 support |
| 2025-11-20 04:29:34 +0100 | <geekosaur> | they care only about gnome 3 these days |
| 2025-11-20 04:30:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Xmonad simply doesn't work under Wayland. So Ubuntu 25.10+ Gnome users can't use Xmonad as their WM with the Gnome Desktop. |
| 2025-11-20 04:30:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Nexilva: We're past that now fwiw; now we're trying to figure how you got xmonad working under gnome |
| 2025-11-20 04:30:49 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> Nexilva: But can 24.04 users? |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> or 25.04 |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:18 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Oh so you want to talk to me now after calling me an idiot? No thanks. |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> Still trying to help you, still trying to understand, as you still haven't explained. |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> If there was nothing to debate, why are you here? |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> yeah that's on you enigma |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:51 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> But absolutely, I didnt understand what you were saying, and I apologize. |
| 2025-11-20 04:31:57 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> I'm here trying to help you, still! |
| 2025-11-20 04:32:04 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Fine. |
| 2025-11-20 04:32:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> I accept your apology. |
| 2025-11-20 04:32:08 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> You told me to join here, sheesh. |
| 2025-11-20 04:32:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> this gnome-session-xnomad was never provided by ubuntu, but i have found ppa for jammy, but thats long ago. |
| 2025-11-20 04:33:28 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Nexilva: so how did you install xmonad under gnome? |
| 2025-11-20 04:33:48 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> If you look carefully in #support:ubuntu.com (https://matrix.to/#/#support:ubuntu.com) I said that I use KDE + Xmonad. I don't use Gnome. |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> Just that people are worried. |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:05 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Even geekosaur is confused about that |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:22 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I'm not in #support:ubuntu.com |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:34 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Nexilva: then why were talking about gnome đ |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:36 +0100 | <geekosaur> | That detail wasn't mentioned here, only Gnome vs. xmonad |
| 2025-11-20 04:34:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> I can certainly see that gnome removing support for x session will make it far more difficult than before to create this xmonad session. But I suspect it hasn't worked for quite a while anyway. |
| 2025-11-20 04:35:01 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> * anyway, but could be wrong. |
| 2025-11-20 04:35:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> i don't believe kde removed their x11 session yet, did they? |
| 2025-11-20 04:35:45 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Fuseteam: Because friends in my Xmonad community use it. I just mentioned it. I didn't expect a verbal avalanche in Ubuntu. |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:06 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Nexilva: misunderstanding happen |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:31 +0100 | <geekosaur> | ubuntu as of 25.04 still has gnome-flashback, so everything I said about it earlier applies |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> then we would need to know how your friends did that |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:37 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> Fuseteam: No, and it won't happen with 6.x either. |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:43 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I don't know if 25.10 does |
| 2025-11-20 04:36:53 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> That's all they've committed to for sure is that plasma 6.x will always support X; plasma 7 is TBD |
| 2025-11-20 04:38:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> if it's the ppa (as jammy is still supported) they'll have to move DEs unfortunately |
| 2025-11-20 04:38:22 +0100 | <geekosaur> | it does, so anyone using the flashback mechanism to run xmonad under gnome will still work |
| 2025-11-20 04:38:35 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> I won't able able to use Plasma 6 with Xmonad as Plasma 6 breaks functionality in Xmonad. Panels don't pop up menus anymore. There is a patch for it I maintain, but the patch no longer works in plasma6. I checked it already. |
| 2025-11-20 04:38:52 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> The last plasma version that patch works on is plasma5. |
| 2025-11-20 04:39:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> geekosaur: So if it's flashback it won't break |
| 2025-11-20 04:39:28 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that sdoesn't surprise me greatly, as it's actually running the final release of gnome 2 |
| 2025-11-20 04:40:16 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> yeah, so it really depends on the question of how xmonad is being run under gnome |
| 2025-11-20 04:40:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/174 is the issue for KDE users. The patch works in 24.04, but not in 25.10 or 26.04 |
| 2025-11-20 04:41:05 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there isn't any other way I'm aware of. actually using xmonad with gnome 3 would require a modified xmonad which did everything by relaying to/from a JS shim |
| 2025-11-20 04:41:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Even switching distros wont' help as the problem is in plasmaframework package, src/plasmaquick/dialog.cpp |
| 2025-11-20 04:41:23 +0100 | <geekosaur> | everything's a gnome-shell plugin in gnome 3 |
| 2025-11-20 04:41:33 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> also how does one conversation happen at 3 speeds? O.o |
| 2025-11-20 04:42:15 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you think this is bad, try having the participants spread between 3 widely separated timezones đ |
| 2025-11-20 04:42:56 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> i have had that, but we're all here at the moment all talking past each other đ¤Ŗ |
| 2025-11-20 04:42:57 +0100 | <geekosaur> | sorry, you'll have to wait 2 hours for the response from the dude in australia đ |
| 2025-11-20 04:43:03 +0100 | <geekosaur> | *12 |
| 2025-11-20 04:43:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> * experienced |
| 2025-11-20 04:44:40 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <enigma9o7> anyway i was certainly mistaken, i was under the impression one couldn't swap out the WM in gnome anymore at all, so when they said they used gnome with xmonad, i didnt understand they were using them at the same time. |
| 2025-11-20 04:44:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> i have worked with people from both belgium, india and china being from suriname myself; but this kinda hilarious to see |
| 2025-11-20 04:44:59 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Nexilva> Your guy's issue about Gnome looks like has a solution, but my KDE/plasmaframework issue so far has no solution. âšī¸ |
| 2025-11-20 04:45:38 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you can swap it out but only with other JS plugins |
| 2025-11-20 04:45:41 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> Nexilva: ah so they're using gnome-flashback? |
| 2025-11-20 04:45:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's even a tiling wm plugin, but I hear it's pretty crappy |
| 2025-11-20 04:46:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> cause that's a different DE than regular gnome |
| 2025-11-20 04:46:46 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> * gnome-flashback is |
| 2025-11-20 04:47:13 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <Fuseteam> geekosaur: it is indeed, it's more like super charged window snapping than actual tiling |