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| 2026-02-03 12:32:15 +0100 | redgloboli | (~redglobol@user/redgloboli) redgloboli |
| 2026-02-03 12:30:31 +0100 | redgloboli | (~redglobol@user/redgloboli) (Quit: ...enter the matrix...) |
| 2026-02-03 11:56:11 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
| 2026-02-03 11:46:40 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 2026-02-03 11:38:43 +0100 | <liskin> | I think there's also an issue in our tracker where someone's trying to introduce a PureLayout class or something so they can run the layout algorithms as a plugin for some existing Wayland compositor. That's something I'd love to learn more about maybe :-) |
| 2026-02-03 11:20:26 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 11:19:27 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-02-03 11:17:37 +0100 | <liskin> | (Note the subtle difference between "protocol" and "channel") |
| 2026-02-03 11:16:20 +0100 | <liskin> | Speaking of that channel - I considered Wayland protocol because I suspected we might need to send some Wayland data structures from the compositor to the WM, and it might just be easier to do over the same protocol. Unless implementing it on the Haskell side is a major pain in the ass. |
| 2026-02-03 11:14:58 +0100 | <liskin> | Sure, doing it the same way as X11 would be insecure. Having a privileged wm communicating over a secure channel is fine. |
| 2026-02-03 11:14:11 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 11:14:08 +0100 | <liskin> | Security reasons my ass. That's like saying postfix or qmail is less secure than sendmail because they separate functionality into smaller processes. |
| 2026-02-03 11:13:32 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-02-03 10:55:33 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 10:55:14 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-02-03 10:49:01 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 10:48:43 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 2026-02-03 09:27:11 +0100 | Enrico63 | (~Enrico63@148.252.128.12) Enrico63 |
| 2026-02-03 08:14:47 +0100 | ft | (~ft@p508db4c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2026-02-03 08:02:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's a few similarities but enough differences that it doesn't make a good mapping |
| 2026-02-03 07:43:18 +0100 | ChubaDuba | (~ChubaDuba@37.112.231.64) ChubaDuba |
| 2026-02-03 07:41:00 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | edit: i have no position of authority on the matter - purely vibe |
| 2026-02-03 07:40:58 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <d​pn> i haven't thought much about rust <> haskell - but I've mentally always kinda thought traits were somewhat comparable to hs classes 🤔 |
| 2026-02-03 07:40:38 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <d​pn> Tranquil Ity: i haven't thought much about rust <> haskell - but I've mentally always kinda thought traits were somewhat comparable to hs classes :think |
| 2026-02-03 02:47:50 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) Digit |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:42 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> * do |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:36 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> At least that's how I did it (both of these) |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:23 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Or a separate VT |
| 2026-02-03 02:27:09 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> liskin: Embedded Wayland window within another Wayland compositor is the usual way |
| 2026-02-03 02:26:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | If you wanna adapt the reference Smithay compositor for that I can maybe help out, it should serve as a good base despite them wanting to drop it. |
| 2026-02-03 02:26:50 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> liskin: That makes sense |
| 2026-02-03 02:14:22 +0100 | Digit | (~user@user/digit) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-02-03 01:22:19 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> I think any such separation for xmonad would require a non-wayland private IPC connection |
| 2026-02-03 01:20:15 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> as to our requirements list, I think the best we'd do is go through the open issues (here and possibly on the old google issues, which is still there but read only) and collect and probably tag them |
| 2026-02-03 01:19:29 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> liskin: someone actually proposed separating them in general and a protocol for doing so. it was soundly thrashed for security reasons iirc |
| 2026-02-03 01:13:06 +0100 | <liskin> | Anyway, bedtime now. |
| 2026-02-03 01:11:57 +0100 | <liskin> | (I have some extra bits in place so even if I screw up and it crashes or goes into a loop, I can still recover - like dumping the state to tmpfs every minute and systemd auto-restarts) |
| 2026-02-03 01:10:10 +0100 | <liskin> | I wonder how people develop their Wayland compositors. I've always worked on the same xmonad that was running my main session. That kind of quick feedback loop is extremely valuable IMO |
| 2026-02-03 01:08:44 +0100 | <liskin> | My main motivations for the separation of compositor and wm was: latency (no Haskell garbage collection), and ease of development - being able to restart the wm without losing the session, like you can in X11 |
| 2026-02-03 01:06:01 +0100 | <liskin> | Would be nice to have a wiki page with these "requirements". |
| 2026-02-03 01:05:45 +0100 | <liskin> | Anyway, geekosaur, do we perhaps have a list of "things people expect from xmonad"? I certainly have an idea of what I expect from it, but I guess other people have very different needs. |
| 2026-02-03 01:04:39 +0100 | <liskin> | Compositor in Rust/C, talking to the Haskell window manager over some IPC. Could be Wayland protocol, could be whatever else |
| 2026-02-03 01:04:03 +0100 | <liskin> | But then my idea has always (a couple years) been to have a separate compositor and window manager. |
| 2026-02-03 01:03:33 +0100 | <liskin> | Actually I specifically preferred Smithay because of Rust. |
| 2026-02-03 00:04:53 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> (see also: electron apps) |
| 2026-02-03 00:03:48 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> (and let's face it, anything that complex written mostly in JS is going to have sucky responsiveness…) |
| 2026-02-03 00:03:21 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <g​eekosaur> that's the problem. they'd look even less responsive if double-buffered |
| 2026-02-02 23:53:44 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> (To be clear, browsers have never been responsive to me) |
| 2026-02-02 23:52:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | I'm curious, I should test if they just draw a buffer that's just a solid color and send that or smth |
| 2026-02-02 23:52:20 +0100 | <haskellbridge> | <T​ranquil Ity> Have you tested it on WL? |