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| 2022-02-14 19:14:12 +0100 | <galactic_starfis> | <Solid> "mh, indeed" <- We could always just mark the old implementation as deprecated, and migrate people over a few version numbers. |
| 2022-02-14 19:14:36 +0100 | <galactic_starfis> | Given the release speed, I think 1 major vnum, or a few minor ones would do the trick. |
| 2022-02-14 19:15:02 +0100 | <galactic_starfis> | The only issue would be older posts not getting refreshed. |
| 2022-02-14 19:15:08 +0100 | <galactic_starfis> | (that I can see, anyway) |
| 2022-02-14 19:15:10 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but we get grumps over deprecating stuff even at the kinda glacial speed we move at |
| 2022-02-14 19:15:24 +0100 | <galactic_starfis> | hm |
| 2022-02-14 19:16:45 +0100 | <geekosaur> | people setup their configs and leave them for years and then get smacked with deprecations 10 years later and don't like it |
| 2022-02-14 19:30:49 +0100 | <Solid> | yes |
| 2022-02-14 19:31:14 +0100 | <Solid> | also, we have no idea how people respond to deprecations and removal of things because (seemingly) no one has tried 0.17.0 yet |
| 2022-02-14 19:31:37 +0100 | <Solid> | which introduces very visible deprecations (via xmessage) |
| 2022-02-14 19:35:38 +0100 | <liskin> | Solid: why do you think no one has tried 0.17.0? |
| 2022-02-14 19:36:31 +0100 | <liskin> | it's just linux distros that are behind; bsds updated and many people who build it from git have presumably updated too in recent months |
| 2022-02-14 20:13:59 +0100 | <Solid> | liskin: maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who are using xmonad through their system's package manager |
| 2022-02-14 20:14:07 +0100 | <Solid> | (or the number of people who use xmonad in general :) |
| 2022-02-14 20:14:20 +0100 | <Solid> | but my feeling is that they outnumber the "I install from source" crowd quite a bit |
| 2022-02-14 20:16:45 +0100 | <liskin> | maybe I'm just underestimating your interpretation of "no one" :-) |
| 2022-02-14 20:17:31 +0100 | <geekosaur> | Solid, I think it's smaller than you think, just because we've tended to go so long between releasesthat lots of people have had to switch to git to get functionality or bugfixes |
| 2022-02-14 20:17:56 +0100 | <geekosaur> | in practice we're kinda rolling release |
| 2022-02-14 20:18:23 +0100 | <liskin> | I think that some (possibly most) of my friends install via "cabal install --lib xmonad", which does give you 0.17.0 these days |
| 2022-02-14 20:18:57 +0100 | <liskin> | but stack(age) still doesn't :-/ |
| 2022-02-14 20:19:19 +0100 | <geekosaur> | stack'll get there eventually |
| 2022-02-14 20:19:42 +0100 | <Solid> | the people I know IRL who use xmonad (which is so cool, btw, and none of them were converted by me :>) are all still on 0.15/0.16 |
| 2022-02-14 20:19:55 +0100 | <geekosaur> | we'll have to wait out the bigger fish they're frying, like aeson 2 which they'veonly just gotten too (who knows when they'll get to text 2 :) |
| 2022-02-14 20:21:36 +0100 | <liskin> | hm, I think I also haven't really converted anyone |
| 2022-02-14 20:21:44 +0100 | <liskin> | it's more like they converted me :-) |
| 2022-02-14 20:21:51 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I make a lousy evangelist |
| 2022-02-14 20:21:56 +0100 | <liskin> | yep, same here |
| 2022-02-14 20:22:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | we get our converts from the likes of distrotube :) |
| 2022-02-14 20:23:24 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and /r/unixporn |
| 2022-02-14 20:24:41 +0100 | kayvank | (~user@52-119-115-185.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-02-14 20:46:17 +0100 | c209e6dc-4d76-47 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:195:dac6:592c:a55a) |
| 2022-02-14 20:46:57 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | Hi guys, so I've been using xmonad for about an year and thinking to try some other WM, which one do you guys recommend? |
| 2022-02-14 20:47:03 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | I'm thinking qtile or i3-gaps |
| 2022-02-14 20:53:10 +0100 | <burp> | https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Comparison_of_tiling_window_managers there are some more ;P |
| 2022-02-14 20:53:22 +0100 | <burp> | but I haven't used any other than xmonad |
| 2022-02-14 20:54:06 +0100 | <burp> | very briefly dwm I think |
| 2022-02-14 20:54:13 +0100 | <Solid> | c209e6dc-4d76-47: the advice if to stay with xmonad of course! |
| 2022-02-14 20:54:42 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I'm trying to figure out why they came *here* to ask |
| 2022-02-14 20:55:42 +0100 | <burp> | well, when you started with the best (xmonad), maybe you have to test a couple of others to apreciate it :) |
| 2022-02-14 20:56:00 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) (Quit: :wq) |
| 2022-02-14 20:57:26 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) |
| 2022-02-14 21:04:13 +0100 | steve__ | (~steve@ool-182c2b80.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2022-02-14 21:16:36 +0100 | liskin | would recommend trying sway, waymonad and qtile, and then writing a detailed report about the experience so we can all learn something from it :-P |
| 2022-02-14 21:17:40 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2022-02-14 21:25:14 +0100 | mc47 | approves what liskin said |
| 2022-02-14 21:25:46 +0100 | Czernobog | (~Czernobog@user/czernobog) |
| 2022-02-14 21:26:05 +0100 | <mc47> | Personally, I tried i3 for a semester. Once I've set up xmonad I never looked back |
| 2022-02-14 21:34:10 +0100 | yauhsien | (~Yau-Hsien@61-231-32-103.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2022-02-14 21:35:02 +0100 | yauhsien | (~Yau-Hsien@61-231-32-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-02-14 21:35:37 +0100 | unknownbeing[m] | (~unknownbe@2001:470:69fc:105::1:237b) |
| 2022-02-14 21:36:35 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Hi |
| 2022-02-14 21:38:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hi |
| 2022-02-14 21:38:47 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | What's the deal with logging of this room? I don't get it |
| 2022-02-14 21:39:25 +0100 | <geekosaur> | ? |
| 2022-02-14 21:39:46 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you're on matrix so it's logged there anyway. the IRC side has its own logging |
| 2022-02-14 21:39:46 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | I got a message from the bot |
| 2022-02-14 21:39:56 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | I see |
| 2022-02-14 21:40:01 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Is it a big deal? |
| 2022-02-14 21:40:47 +0100 | <geekosaur> | oh.we got acomplaint about logging being a potentilaproblem with the EU's GDPR directive (data privacy) |
| 2022-02-14 21:41:26 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Is that unique to this room? |
| 2022-02-14 21:41:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | no, #haskell has a similar warning and probably some others do similar things |
| 2022-02-14 21:42:09 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | I see |
| 2022-02-14 21:42:17 +0100 | <geekosaur> | nobody's quite sure how the GDPR applies to IRC logging, and nobody wants to be the one to test it in court |
| 2022-02-14 21:42:46 +0100 | yauhsien_ | (~Yau-Hsien@61-231-32-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) |
| 2022-02-14 21:43:35 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Could you please help me with something? Is it possible to make a key bind for switching to the last window, even if it was on another workspace (i.e. switch to that workspace instead of switching a window) |
| 2022-02-14 21:45:21 +0100 | yauhsien | (~Yau-Hsien@61-231-32-166.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2022-02-14 21:47:12 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | E.g: if I have gimp and firefox on workspace 1 and the last focused window was firefox, then I can switch to it with super+tab, but if firefox was on ws 2, then super+tab will switch to ws 2 instead |
| 2022-02-14 21:47:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | nothing "canned" for that unless you count https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.0/docs/XMonad-Actions-CycleRecentWS.html#v… |
| 2022-02-14 21:48:05 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | That's the second half of it, so I was wondering if it's possible to have a dual function on one key bind |
| 2022-02-14 21:48:34 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | So that it checks first if the last window was on the same ws |
| 2022-02-14 21:48:51 +0100 | <liskin> | unknownbeing[m]: might be easiest to just use https://github.com/sagb/alttab with -d 1 |
| 2022-02-14 21:48:57 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you'd have to record the last window. currently that's only kept per workspace |
| 2022-02-14 21:51:24 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Hmm |
| 2022-02-14 21:52:01 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | geekosaur: So could I code my own function that does what I described? |
| 2022-02-14 21:52:17 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | I'd rather not resort to a third-party package |
| 2022-02-14 21:53:45 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you'd need something in the logHook to track the current window, something in ExtensibleState recording both the current and previous window (current so you know when to update previous), and the keybind uses the previous window from XS |
| 2022-02-14 21:54:02 +0100 | <geekosaur> | certainly doable, just not something simple you could just drop in |
| 2022-02-14 21:55:01 +0100 | <Solid> | this seems like an easy extensions of X.H.RefocusLast to me |
| 2022-02-14 21:55:31 +0100 | jludwig | (~justin@user/jludwig) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 2022-02-14 21:55:40 +0100 | <geekosaur> | maybe |
| 2022-02-14 21:55:46 +0100 | <Solid> | the setup is already there, one would just need to use the entire data instead of only the current workspace's history |
| 2022-02-14 21:56:29 +0100 | jludwig | (~justin@user/jludwig) |
| 2022-02-14 21:59:42 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | <geekosaur> "you'd need something in the..." <- XS? |
| 2022-02-14 21:59:54 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hm, actually toggleFocus from that module may already do it |
| 2022-02-14 21:59:58 +0100 | <geekosaur> | ExtensibleState |
| 2022-02-14 22:00:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | we usually refer to it as XS |
| 2022-02-14 22:00:11 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | So it's definitely possible? |
| 2022-02-14 22:00:29 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | My friend is curious about this feature. He wants to switch from i3 |
| 2022-02-14 22:00:42 +0100 | <geekosaur> | definitely possible, may already be done (https://hackage.haskell.org/package/xmonad-contrib-0.17.0/docs/XMonad-Hooks-RefocusLast.html#v:tog…) |
| 2022-02-14 22:01:02 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Thanks! |
| 2022-02-14 22:01:05 +0100 | <geekosaur> | still requires the logHook, they just already wroteit |
| 2022-02-14 22:01:30 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | That's good to hear |
| 2022-02-14 22:02:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | (I missed it because I wasn't expecting it to be a Hook module) |
| 2022-02-14 22:27:35 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b))) |
| 2022-02-14 22:27:35 +0100 | allbery_b | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2022-02-14 22:27:38 +0100 | allbery_b | geekosaur |
| 2022-02-14 22:28:36 +0100 | Czernobog | (~Czernobog@user/czernobog) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2022-02-14 22:30:18 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) (Quit: :wq) |
| 2022-02-14 22:34:59 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | geekosaur: because I feel like xmonad is really good and what others have to offer |
| 2022-02-14 22:36:21 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | and why some people are sticking with i3 or qtile or herbstluftwm or bspwm or so on |
| 2022-02-14 22:36:55 +0100 | <liskin> | with i3/bspwm it might just be a personal preference for the way layouting works in those |
| 2022-02-14 22:37:07 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | also feel like people are hyping up wayland vs x11 |
| 2022-02-14 22:37:29 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | liskin: if it's just layouting, i think xmonad got it all covered |
| 2022-02-14 22:37:29 +0100 | <liskin> | xmonad can emulate some of those behaviours but there are often subtle issues due to the design of xmonad core |
| 2022-02-14 22:37:35 +0100 | <liskin> | ^^ |
| 2022-02-14 22:38:06 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | liskin: What are the issues? |
| 2022-02-14 22:38:16 +0100 | <geekosaur> | people are hyping wayland up but I think it still has a way to go before I'd trust week-long sessions to it |
| 2022-02-14 22:38:19 +0100 | <liskin> | although for people who aren't too neurotic and who don't mind the occassional imperfection, it might just be worth sticking with xmonad anyway :-) |
| 2022-02-14 22:38:29 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | some people use something other than xmobar too, but idk like polybar |
| 2022-02-14 22:38:59 +0100 | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> | for me, xmonad and xmonad-contrib is out of date on arch repos so i have to use xmonad-git and xmonad-contrib-git |
| 2022-02-14 22:39:27 +0100 | <liskin> | unknownbeing[m]: can't really show a specific example as I don't use BSP with xmonad |
| 2022-02-14 22:40:19 +0100 | <liskin> | but I'd expect that trying to combine that with decorations or minimizing or fullscreen/floats can result in some hiccups |
| 2022-02-14 22:41:18 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) |
| 2022-02-14 22:41:49 +0100 | <liskin> | and you can't add tabs to BSP, because it's not a generic layout, it can only layout actual windows |
| 2022-02-14 22:42:04 +0100 | <liskin> | I have absolutely no idea if i3/bspwm can do any of this, though |
| 2022-02-14 22:42:22 +0100 | <liskin> | but it's something an xmonad user might expect and be disappointed with :-) |
| 2022-02-14 22:45:10 +0100 | telser | (~AdminUser@user/telser) |
| 2022-02-14 22:50:04 +0100 | c209e6dc-4d76-47 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:195:dac6:592c:a55a) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-02-14 22:52:34 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | <c209e6dc-4d76-47> "for me, xmonad and xmonad-..." <- Why are they?! I had an issue with my version not having one of the newer features when I was setting up my config |
| 2022-02-14 22:52:48 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Isn't Arch meant to be the bleeding edge distro? |
| 2022-02-14 22:53:11 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | How are they letting the xmonad package stay so far out of date? |
| 2022-02-14 22:53:13 +0100 | c209e6dc-4d76-47 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:195:dac6:592c:a55a) |
| 2022-02-14 22:53:26 +0100 | <liskin> | it's only as bleeding edge as there are people willing to maintain stuff |
| 2022-02-14 22:53:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | quite a few haskell package maintainers have defected to nix, apparently |
| 2022-02-14 22:54:30 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Ugh |
| 2022-02-14 22:54:37 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and arch has always been problematic when it came to haskell packages anyway, because they made a maintenance decision that is easier on their package maintainers but a headache for package users |
| 2022-02-14 22:54:40 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | That's so annoying |
| 2022-02-14 22:55:04 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there'snobody maintaining haskell packages for debian any more either |
| 2022-02-14 22:55:13 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Why? |
| 2022-02-14 22:55:21 +0100 | <geekosaur> | all went over to nix |
| 2022-02-14 22:55:25 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Why is haskell so unloved? :( |
| 2022-02-14 22:56:02 +0100 | <geekosaur> | it's not that it's unloved, it's that many haskellers prefer nix to manage their packages these days and don't care about distro packages |
| 2022-02-14 22:58:27 +0100 | <liskin> | compared to python and rust, haskell is unloved indeed, though |
| 2022-02-14 22:59:12 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | :'C |
| 2022-02-14 22:59:29 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Dunno what to recommend to my friend then. Maybe qtile? |
| 2022-02-14 22:59:43 +0100 | <liskin> | a friend of my recently said that the community has bikeshedded themselves to death |
| 2022-02-14 23:00:02 +0100 | <liskin> | (which we've been doing too, admittedly :-/) |
| 2022-02-14 23:00:02 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | Qtile community? |
| 2022-02-14 23:00:09 +0100 | <liskin> | unknownbeing[m]: haskell community |
| 2022-02-14 23:00:51 +0100 | <liskin> | well you can still recommend xmonad, it's not like it's on its death bed just yet |
| 2022-02-14 23:01:19 +0100 | <liskin> | there'll always be a way to install ghc on any distro and build xmonad with it |
| 2022-02-14 23:01:31 +0100 | <liskin> | just not necessarily via a distro package :-/ |
| 2022-02-14 23:01:44 +0100 | <unknownbeing[m]> | I'm wondering if I should just build xmonad from source |
| 2022-02-14 23:01:54 +0100 | c209e6dc-4d76-47 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:195:dac6:592c:a55a) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2022-02-14 23:09:41 +0100 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-02-14 23:16:43 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) (Quit: :wq) |
| 2022-02-14 23:32:08 +0100 | c209e6dc-4d76-47 | (~aditya@2601:249:4300:1296:195:dac6:592c:a55a) |
| 2022-02-14 23:33:49 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3) |
| 2022-02-14 23:40:31 +0100 | telser | (~AdminUser@user/telser) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2022-02-14 23:41:46 +0100 | telser | (~AdminUser@user/telser) |
| 2022-02-14 23:55:05 +0100 | dpn` | (~dpn@203-206-161-39.perm.iinet.net.au) |