2021/12/22

2021-12-22 01:34:11 +0100seschwar(~seschwar@user/seschwar) (Quit: :wq)
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2021-12-22 03:08:10 +0100dirtcastle(~dirtcastl@2409:4072:e84:3c1e:bd:e9ff:fe4f:fc82)
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2021-12-22 03:12:50 +0100dirtcastle(~dirtcastl@103.43.203.229)
2021-12-22 03:15:11 +0100 <dirtcastle> Is haskell fast and consumes less memory like c? Is xmonad fast? I searched up the internet already. Would like to hear your opinion too. I wouldn't mind learning haskell. I want efficiency
2021-12-22 03:16:29 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-12-22 03:22:17 +0100mvk(~mvk@2607:fea8:5cdd:f000::917a)
2021-12-22 03:50:44 +0100 <burp> xmonad is fast, but I wouldn't say Haskell is good for numerical applications
2021-12-22 03:50:57 +0100 <burp> use it for high level tasks
2021-12-22 03:51:53 +0100 <burp> if your goal is raw efficiency, maybe Haskell is not what you are looking for
2021-12-22 03:55:41 +0100 <VarikValefor[m]> burp: Haskell has some fast numeric libraries.
2021-12-22 03:56:58 +0100 <burp> VarikValefor[m]: native?
2021-12-22 03:57:14 +0100 <burp> or do they link C/Fortran or embed that?
2021-12-22 03:58:04 +0100 <burp> so yea, a combination is always possible, do low level numerical stuff with C/Fortran, and interface it for higher level stuff in Haskell, if you so desire
2021-12-22 03:58:16 +0100 <burp> like Python people do it I guess
2021-12-22 04:03:18 +0100banc-(banc@gateway/vpn/airvpn/banc) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-12-22 04:08:23 +0100 <dirtcastle> burp, so on high level it's almost similar in performance to c?
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2021-12-22 10:13:02 +0100dirtcastle(~dirtcastl@103.43.203.229)
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2021-12-22 10:17:49 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by allbery_b)))
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2021-12-22 13:07:38 +0100mestre(~mestre@191.177.175.57)
2021-12-22 13:10:00 +0100 <mestre> Hello, I'm trying to find out how to go back to the login screen from xmonad. Any clues?
2021-12-22 13:10:34 +0100 <geekosaur> mod-shift-q is the default
2021-12-22 13:11:19 +0100 <mestre> ill try, thank you :)
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2021-12-22 15:59:01 +0100seschwar(~seschwar@user/seschwar)
2021-12-22 16:01:51 +0100 <dirtcastle> I'm trying to choose a twm. Rn I've narrowed it down to xmonad and dwm. I've heared xmonad is highly extensible. How true is that?
2021-12-22 16:03:34 +0100 <geekosaur> we've got 200 extension modules and still growing
2021-12-22 16:04:02 +0100 <geekosaur> dwm should actually be just as extensible, since xmonad is more or less dwm in Haskell instead of C
2021-12-22 16:05:22 +0100 <dirtcastle> But community patches in dwm is less in number? Are Extension same as patches?
2021-12-22 16:08:22 +0100 <dirtcastle> Am I asking the wrong questions
2021-12-22 16:08:23 +0100 <geekosaur> essentially the same. C more or less requires that extensions be done as patches; Haskell is more flexible, so we can do things as extension modules that plug in
2021-12-22 16:09:01 +0100 <geekosaur> that's a large part of why xmonad was developed in the first place, because Haskell made it possible to express things more easily and more flexibly than C did
2021-12-22 16:09:32 +0100 <geekosaur> sadly the original developers are gone at this point
2021-12-22 16:10:59 +0100 <geekosaur> I'm the longest serving developer at this point and I came on board when xmonad was at version 0.2 so I can't say much about the earlier history than what dons and sjanssen told me back then
2021-12-22 16:11:19 +0100 <dirtcastle> Oh that's sad.
2021-12-22 16:12:23 +0100 <geekosaur> haskell programmers have this annoying tendency to be hired by financial institutions that then put restrictive NDAs on them so they can't contribute to open source any more
2021-12-22 16:12:58 +0100 <geekosaur> (I've been on the edge of that and intend to get no closer)
2021-12-22 16:15:16 +0100 <dirtcastle> Wow first time talking to a developer. thanks for your work (yours & ur fellow developers) ! After ricing my pc, I'm thinking of contributing as much as I can.
2021-12-22 16:18:22 +0100 <dirtcastle> Oh. That's kinda messed up. Haskell being hard to learn and restricting the ones who are able to get a job as haskell programmer from contributing to open source....
2021-12-22 16:19:37 +0100x88x88x(~x88x88x@2001:19f0:5:39a8:5400:3ff:feb6:73cb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-22 16:19:42 +0100 <geekosaur> not everyone who gets a haskell job is restricted, and in fact many of the big ecosystem developers have haskell-related jobs. it's just the ones who work for banks and the like, and that isn't so much related to haskell as it is to banks
2021-12-22 16:19:47 +0100 <dirtcastle> That's gotta impact the health of the project.
2021-12-22 16:20:32 +0100 <geekosaur> not really. they designed the core, but the core is pretty stable and hasn't changed or needed to change much since
2021-12-22 16:21:10 +0100 <geekosaur> contrib changes a lot more, and while we contribute to it, more often we're helping others contribute to it
2021-12-22 16:22:03 +0100x88x88x(~x88x88x@149.28.53.172)
2021-12-22 16:23:42 +0100 <dirtcastle> That sounds like a really smart thing to do. I've never heard other projects doing something like this but my knowledge is tiny on these subjects.
2021-12-22 16:24:08 +0100 <geekosaur> (liskin will probably beg to differ at this point since he likes to bite off more than he can chew :)
2021-12-22 16:30:01 +0100 <geekosaur> I think most projects I'm aware of have mentors to help new contributors, whether they're Haskell-related or not. You generally need to make contributing as easy as possible for a project to stay alive
2021-12-22 16:30:38 +0100 <dirtcastle> :D we ,contributers, hope will make all your time & effort worthwhile.
2021-12-22 16:31:51 +0100 <dirtcastle> That's true!
2021-12-22 16:33:16 +0100 <geekosaur> I know if you go talk to sm over in #hledger he'll tell you much the same thing. The bar's already pretty high just because we're both Haskell-based projects, making it even higher does not help at all
2021-12-22 16:39:33 +0100 <dirtcastle> I agree!
2021-12-22 16:42:09 +0100 <dirtcastle> So adding extensions to xmonad is as simple as "import extension" ?
2021-12-22 16:42:51 +0100 <geekosaur> generally you need to add something to a hook, or add a combinator somewhere. but you don't need to patch xmonad source or anything silly like that
2021-12-22 16:43:59 +0100 <geekosaur> in Haskell, importing something just brings new names into scope, you still have to make use of those names
2021-12-22 16:44:30 +0100 <geekosaur> but we generally try to make using those names easy
2021-12-22 16:44:48 +0100 <dirtcastle> That's going to avoid a lot of pain. One or two patches is managable removing one patch when there are 5-6 patches, things can go wrong anytime.
2021-12-22 16:44:56 +0100 <geekosaur> we're still redesigning some of the older parts of contrib to make them easier to use
2021-12-22 16:46:29 +0100 <dirtcastle> That's amazing!
2021-12-22 16:50:39 +0100 <dirtcastle> U have convinced me to use xmonad. :) Ever since I learnt abt linux , FLOSS, I am in love with it. love you guys and ur work.
2021-12-22 17:00:08 +0100Industrial[m](~industria@2001:470:69fc:105::eb9) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2021-12-22 17:00:08 +0100jordanjoel1[m](~jordanjoe@2001:470:69fc:105::1:3afc) (Quit: You have been kicked for being idle)
2021-12-22 17:12:42 +0100geekosaurremembers to add another docs bug
2021-12-22 17:15:39 +0100 <dirtcastle> Lolol
2021-12-22 17:24:37 +0100x88x88x(~x88x88x@149.28.53.172) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-12-22 17:28:33 +0100joa[m]1(~joamatrix@2001:470:69fc:105::1:54d1)
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2021-12-22 18:12:14 +0100liskinused to like to literally bite off more than he can chew :-D
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2021-12-22 20:01:52 +0100geekosaurnow has his laptop config on github finally
2021-12-22 20:02:37 +0100 <geekosaur> https://github.com/geekosaur/xmonad.hs/tree/skkukuk
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2021-12-22 21:18:26 +0100 <geekosaur> mrf. made a branch to work on the docks keybinding function stuff and never did anything else with it. now I have to remember the hack I came up with to make `def` work…
2021-12-22 21:21:28 +0100darkstardevx(~darkstard@50.39.115.145)
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2021-12-22 21:25:39 +0100geekosaur(~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur)
2021-12-22 21:29:39 +0100 <geekosaur> hm, that is annoying. updated my xmonad-contrib fork and got the CI config with it, wasn't quite expecting that
2021-12-22 21:29:55 +0100 <geekosaur> twice since I have the additional branch
2021-12-22 21:44:28 +0100 <Solid> isn't biting off more than one can chew the meaning of life? would be pretty boring otherwise :P
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2021-12-22 23:02:42 +0100darkstardevx(~darkstard@50.39.115.145) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-12-22 23:10:19 +0100 <geekosaur> meh. was going to try to foist the other doc bug off on someone who knows haddock markup better than I do, but I've already had to pull up haddock markup for the other one…
2021-12-22 23:18:05 +0100darkstardevx(~darkstard@50.39.115.145)