| 2021-11-25 00:12:40 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) (Quit: :wq) |
| 2021-11-25 00:15:47 +0100 | NapoleonWils0n | (~weechat@host86-155-48-159.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 2021-11-25 00:16:30 +0100 | NapoleonWils0n | (~weechat@host86-155-48-159.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-11-25 00:25:20 +0100 | srk_ | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2021-11-25 00:27:39 +0100 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 00:28:02 +0100 | srk_ | srk |
| 2021-11-25 01:22:37 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-11-25 01:24:38 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-11-25 01:27:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hm, guess I should have also updated from hackage before pushing that button |
| 2021-11-25 01:33:59 +0100 | <geekosaur> | right, and now things are rebuilding again. figgerz |
| 2021-11-25 01:56:19 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702) |
| 2021-11-25 02:58:07 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-11-25 02:59:58 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-11-25 03:12:26 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 03:48:14 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-11-25 03:58:20 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) |
| 2021-11-25 04:03:05 +0100 | banc- | (banc@gateway/vpn/airvpn/banc) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 04:22:16 +0100 | banc | (banc@gateway/vpn/airvpn/banc) |
| 2021-11-25 04:25:21 +0100 | td_ | (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-097.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 04:27:27 +0100 | td_ | (~td@94.134.91.22) |
| 2021-11-25 04:45:39 +0100 | benin2 | (~benin@183.82.179.164) |
| 2021-11-25 04:47:10 +0100 | benin | (~benin@183.82.179.164) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 04:47:10 +0100 | benin2 | benin |
| 2021-11-25 04:48:10 +0100 | terrorjack | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2021-11-25 04:50:35 +0100 | terrorjack | (~terrorjac@2a01:4f8:1c1e:509a::1) |
| 2021-11-25 05:37:58 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 05:50:39 +0100 | oliverg | (~oliver@2a02:c7f:f473:d500:414c:f143:a790:7892) |
| 2021-11-25 05:50:53 +0100 | <oliverg> | hello everyone |
| 2021-11-25 05:55:16 +0100 | oliverg | (~oliver@2a02:c7f:f473:d500:414c:f143:a790:7892) (WeeChat 2.8) |
| 2021-11-25 06:00:45 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) |
| 2021-11-25 06:11:11 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 06:22:05 +0100 | catman | (~catman@user/catman) |
| 2021-11-25 06:53:46 +0100 | Guest3953 | spider |
| 2021-11-25 06:54:16 +0100 | spider | Guest42 |
| 2021-11-25 06:54:20 +0100 | Guest42 | spider__ |
| 2021-11-25 07:06:18 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2021-11-25 08:39:08 +0100 | gruntsplatter | (~sogens@gateway/vpn/pia/sogens) |
| 2021-11-25 08:39:29 +0100 | gruntsplatter | (~sogens@gateway/vpn/pia/sogens) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-11-25 08:46:59 +0100 | qbt | (~qbt@user/edun) |
| 2021-11-25 08:59:21 +0100 | zenex[m] | (~zenexmatr@2001:470:69fc:105::1:3047) () |
| 2021-11-25 09:07:15 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702) |
| 2021-11-25 09:28:32 +0100 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) |
| 2021-11-25 10:16:03 +0100 | Vermoot | (~vermoot@89-158-106-112.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 2021-11-25 10:16:48 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I've finally managed to make window decorations work |
| 2021-11-25 10:16:54 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-11-25 10:17:03 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Not that I'd want them to be on all the time, and for now they look like poo |
| 2021-11-25 10:17:06 +0100 | <Vermoot> | BUT |
| 2021-11-25 10:17:20 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I'm looking for a way to have them on on floating windows |
| 2021-11-25 10:17:27 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-11-25 10:17:32 +0100 | <Vermoot> | and/or to map a keybind fo make them appear/disappear |
| 2021-11-25 10:44:31 +0100 | mvk | (~mvk@2607:fea8:5cc1:fa00::4702) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 10:47:14 +0100 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) |
| 2021-11-25 10:54:48 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Any idea why my window decorations have a gap between the titlebar and the window? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/635625925748457482/913366887608496168/unknown.png?width=1… |
| 2021-11-25 10:56:29 +0100 | <Vermoot> | (My config is here https://github.com/Vermoot/dotfiles/blob/linux/xmonad/xmonad.hs ) |
| 2021-11-25 13:19:56 +0100 | <geekosaur> | because you're using Spacing and the titlebars are (semi-)managed, so they get laid out with spacing as well, I think |
| 2021-11-25 13:56:09 +0100 | <Vermoot> | geekosaur, kinda annoying to fix then innit |
| 2021-11-25 13:59:17 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Also I asked in a 15 second window where you weren't here, but you might know: I'm looking for a way to have decorations on floating windows, as well as a function to hide/show decorations with a keybind |
| 2021-11-25 14:07:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | floating windows are handled completely differently and I don't think we have any hooks to decorate them; this is actually related to the other question because decorations are managed by the layout (hence spacing) but layouts can't touch floats |
| 2021-11-25 14:07:46 +0100 | <geekosaur> | hypothetically one could write a hide/show keybinding but I think it would require changes to Decoration? |
| 2021-11-25 14:12:50 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:02 +0100 | <liskin> | Solid, mc47, geekosaur: https://opencollective.com/opensource/updates/training-coaching-and-workshops-for-community-leaders, or https://opencollective.com/opensource/updates/open-source-collective-community-call-nov-21 if you want to have it explained by Sumana herself (and see me speaking like an idiot) |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:05 +0100 | <geekosaur> | mhhhh, there's a Hide message but no obvious way to show them again |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:26 +0100 | <liskin> | (I did register for that during the call last week) |
| 2021-11-25 14:13:32 +0100 | <geekosaur> | liskin, yeh, I saw that. that's actually the kind of thing I'd hoped the HF would help address |
| 2021-11-25 14:15:35 +0100 | <geekosaur> | Vermoot, I think Hide is intended for switching workspaces and they get redrawn when you switch back, so it's not quite what you want |
| 2021-11-25 14:18:18 +0100 | <mc47> | liskin: thanks for the tip, that's very cool! The time span isn't that ideal for me though. How many spots are there? |
| 2021-11-25 14:18:31 +0100 | <liskin> | mc47: I have absolutely no idea |
| 2021-11-25 14:24:17 +0100 | <Vermoot> | geekosaur, alright, thanks. I might start an issue on the xmonad or the xmonad-contrib github, see where that takes us in a more distant future? |
| 2021-11-25 14:25:08 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I've seen someone in a 6-year-old reddit post who did make decorations on floating windows work, but they had to modify some pretty deep parts of xmonad from what I understand |
| 2021-11-25 14:25:36 +0100 | <liskin> | Vermoot: take a look at X.C.Bluetile for decorated floats |
| 2021-11-25 14:25:49 +0100 | <geekosaur> | yes, doing anything useful with floats would require a fair amount of work |
| 2021-11-25 14:26:21 +0100 | <liskin> | (there's a layout that replicates the floating layer using a "tiling" layout and some extensible state and you can use decorations normally with this one) |
| 2021-11-25 14:26:42 +0100 | <liskin> | Not sure if this can be combined with an actual tiling layout as well though :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 14:27:07 +0100 | <geekosaur> | potentially it could be a layout modifier |
| 2021-11-25 14:27:17 +0100 | <geekosaur> | probably be a lot more work though |
| 2021-11-25 14:28:14 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Yeah from what I understand it seems weird that decorations are a layout modifier thing; to me it would make more sense for them to be related to windows rather than layouts |
| 2021-11-25 14:29:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | problem there is xmonad doesn't really have a way to associate things with windows as such |
| 2021-11-25 14:30:14 +0100 | <geekosaur> | xmonad is about the StackSet and layouts, which is why floats are an afterthought |
| 2021-11-25 14:31:47 +0100 | <Solid> | liskin: anything interesting that you learned from this hour long conversation that I sort of don't want to watch right now? :D |
| 2021-11-25 14:32:28 +0100 | <liskin> | Solid: I don't think there's anything extra to what's out there in writing |
| 2021-11-25 14:32:36 +0100 | <liskin> | just people talking :-) |
| 2021-11-25 14:32:41 +0100 | <Solid> | I see |
| 2021-11-25 14:35:05 +0100 | <liskin> | maybe this one bit about CoCs, someone mentioned that it'd be nice if projects could "outsource" that stuff (especially the complaint handling and enforment part) to someone qualified and I said I totally agree because we're all idiots |
| 2021-11-25 14:35:16 +0100 | <liskin> | (not used those words exactly, obviously) |
| 2021-11-25 14:37:54 +0100 | <Solid> | might as well have :P |
| 2021-11-25 14:37:59 +0100 | <Solid> | but yeah, stuff like that'd be great |
| 2021-11-25 14:42:33 +0100 | <Solid> | I think currently it would be nice to decide on what to do with the money in a semi-sustainable way (I personally thought we'd be on like 3 supporters forever, so this positive response really caught me by surprise :) |
| 2021-11-25 14:52:57 +0100 | <liskin> | yeah and it looks like other projects struggle with this too, even those with ten times more donations |
| 2021-11-25 14:53:14 +0100 | <Solid> | Oo |
| 2021-11-25 14:54:16 +0100 | <liskin> | like the guy from OBS who said they aren't spending it either because nobody is ready to quit a job without having some certainty that they'll be funded for several years |
| 2021-11-25 14:54:35 +0100 | <liskin> | especially people in the US, where healthcare and pensions are a total clusterfuck |
| 2021-11-25 14:55:37 +0100 | <Solid> | but couldn't they just collect it in addition to their job? |
| 2021-11-25 14:55:48 +0100 | <Solid> | like being an "independent contractor" on the side or something |
| 2021-11-25 14:56:07 +0100 | <liskin> | right now I'm thinking we're in the ballpark of conference tickets, maybe small motivational pocket money, possibly even fund a student for a couple months |
| 2021-11-25 14:56:21 +0100 | <liskin> | well yeah but will they then work more on the project? |
| 2021-11-25 14:56:34 +0100 | <liskin> | or will they need to negotiate a part-time job? |
| 2021-11-25 14:57:02 +0100 | <Solid> | well, presumably people like their work _right now_ enough to give them money |
| 2021-11-25 14:57:05 +0100 | <liskin> | (which is what I'm doing now, but I'll still work less on xmonad than I did last year) |
| 2021-11-25 14:57:36 +0100 | ianliu | (~ianliu@200-232-249-142.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:06 +0100 | <Solid> | well, me too (since I'm technically not a student anymore now), but it seems that people are still excited about this |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:34 +0100 | <Solid> | I suppose the question is whether they'll still be there in two months |
| 2021-11-25 15:03:52 +0100 | <ianliu> | Yesterday I was on a Zoom call, sharing my desktop, which went well until someone tried to use the Zoom feature that draws over the screen. When he tried to do that, my screen opened a black window over everything. Has anyone experienced this? |
| 2021-11-25 15:06:36 +0100 | <liskin> | I'm still in the negotiating phase though, which itself happens to be full-time-ish :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 15:09:11 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/01/07/open-source-has-a-funding-problem/ |
| 2021-11-25 15:11:13 +0100 | <geekosaur> | ianliu, there have recently been a number of complaints about zoom and xmonad but I don't recall off the top of my head what the resolution was |
| 2021-11-25 15:11:51 +0100 | <Solid> | AFAIR it was mostly about screensharing and people missing ewmh |
| 2021-11-25 15:12:22 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | If XMonad somehow got some kind of corporate funding, maybe that would justify the amount of work that goes into it tbh |
| 2021-11-25 15:12:31 +0100 | <Solid> | but I'm wondering how this drawing over the screen would cause issues; surely that's done server side and shouldn't affect the client in any way? |
| 2021-11-25 15:12:44 +0100 | <ianliu> | I have ewmh, but I don't use a composer. I think thats the problem. Zoom must be creating a transparent window on top of the desktop to allow drawings |
| 2021-11-25 15:12:47 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | * it tbh in my opinion |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:00 +0100 | <geekosaur> | thsat's what I would expect, yes |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:06 +0100 | <geekosaur> | so try a compositor |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:07 +0100 | <Solid> | ah that's a good point yeah |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:28 +0100 | <geekosaur> | you can't just draw anywhere on the screen, it'd be clipped to your window |
| 2021-11-25 15:13:59 +0100 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: xmonad is quite a niche thing, I wonder what corporate would be motivated to sponsor that :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:07 +0100 | <ianliu> | I used to use picom, but I was getting a bug where it started flickering, and it happened quite frequenty |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:10 +0100 | <Vermoot> | geekosaur, I get that, but some apps are really more appropriate to use as floating, and some even can't really be used as tiled |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:17 +0100 | <Vermoot> | To me float is essential in some cases |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:42 +0100 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: there are grants for open source projects from companies and nonprofits and govs and eu and whatnot, but I didn't find any that we could apply for either |
| 2021-11-25 15:14:46 +0100 | <geekosaur> | liskin, probably none unless we added some way to do centralized control of configs. I've discussed this before |
| 2021-11-25 15:15:31 +0100 | <liskin> | except for stuff like GSoC and the China Summer of Code thing, but that's not sustainability, that's a one time deal |
| 2021-11-25 15:20:53 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | :-| |
| 2021-11-25 15:21:52 +0100 | <Solid> | I don't think we need corporate sponsors tbh |
| 2021-11-25 15:24:18 +0100 | ianliu | (~ianliu@200-232-249-142.dsl.telesp.net.br) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3) |
| 2021-11-25 15:34:38 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | this idea seems ridiculous, but what if XMonad was paid instead of free, as in, you would have to pay for it to use it.. (ridiculous idea though tbh) |
| 2021-11-25 15:35:32 +0100 | <Solid> | no |
| 2021-11-25 15:35:36 +0100 | <liskin> | no |
| 2021-11-25 15:36:16 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 15:36:28 +0100 | <liskin> | (that can't be done even if we wanted to, because licenses) |
| 2021-11-25 15:39:38 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 15:39:50 +0100 | <Solid> | (and we don't even want to :) |
| 2021-11-25 15:40:20 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | k |
| 2021-11-25 15:46:27 +0100 | <noex> | i'm honestly surprised there aren't more supporters. i think people just aren't aware of how easy it is to support FOSS projects yet. github now makes it ridiculously easy to just click a button and sponsor stuff. it never used to be that way. i didn't know that existed until a few weeks ago. |
| 2021-11-25 15:55:01 +0100 | <noex> | as devs you see it all the time, but as an end user xmonad "just works" so I have had zero reason to go to the github page at all. i just happen to stumble across it and realized sponsoring it was something I could actually do. |
| 2021-11-25 15:55:46 +0100 | <liskin> | noex: that's cool! :-) |
| 2021-11-25 16:03:00 +0100 | <Vermoot> | uuuh |
| 2021-11-25 16:03:14 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I'd like to meet the end user who never had to go to the xmonad github |
| 2021-11-25 16:03:46 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I guess I spend more time in the documentation than on github, but still, I'm sure everyone goes there from time to time |
| 2021-11-25 16:05:07 +0100 | <Vermoot> | It's not like xmonad is very "for the commonman" |
| 2021-11-25 16:06:16 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2021-11-25 16:06:51 +0100 | <noex> | Vermoot: why would I randomly go to the xmonad github from time to time? do you randomly check the github for every little open source program you use? |
| 2021-11-25 16:07:29 +0100 | <Vermoot> | When I need days and days to understand how to configure it perfectly, yeah, it happens :D |
| 2021-11-25 16:07:39 +0100 | <Vermoot> | And I don't mean that as a criticism btw |
| 2021-11-25 16:08:15 +0100 | <Vermoot> | But github issues are always an rich resource when looking for help, info, etc |
| 2021-11-25 16:09:18 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Re-reading myself I come off as a dick, so I'll say I may totally be wrong, but to me xmonad is definitely the kind of project/tool whose target audience *will* visit its github |
| 2021-11-25 16:10:15 +0100 | <noex> | you are not wrong, I just think the default config that ships with xmonad is very self-explanatory. i think you can get by without *needing* to check the github for sure. |
| 2021-11-25 16:10:50 +0100 | <Vermoot> | oof, I'm gonna have to disagree |
| 2021-11-25 16:11:30 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I may be the type of user that wants to customize the config more than the average user, but the default config was definitely not enough for me to know enough to start tinkering |
| 2021-11-25 16:11:50 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 16:12:23 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I found some good documentation, and I've learned to read the hackage pages well enough, but still |
| 2021-11-25 16:13:23 +0100 | <noex> | all i can say is, i added my xmonad.hs to version control almost 10 years ago. i don't know haskell, never looked at hackage, and never looked at the github page. |
| 2021-11-25 16:13:39 +0100 | <geekosaur> | the default config is enough *if you know some Haskell* including the tricks the config uses (this is another reason I dislike Data.Default, it's another bit of "magic" everywhere) |
| 2021-11-25 16:13:48 +0100 | <geekosaur> | magic is kinda the last thing we need |
| 2021-11-25 16:14:33 +0100 | <liskin> | Vermoot: I don't think you come off as a dick, I quite agree with you actually :-) |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:01 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Yeah yeah but I feel like my first few messages came off a bit arrogant :D |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:04 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | Anyone know the difference between xmonad.github.io and hackage.haskell.org for documentation?? |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:14 +0100 | <liskin> | one can certainly use bare xmonad, but they'd be missing a lot of potential |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:26 +0100 | <liskin> | (which they might not need though) |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:56 +0100 | <noex> | it's enough to get them started, obviously I would *hope* they start customizing and changing it lol |
| 2021-11-25 16:15:57 +0100 | <liskin> | FOSSHuman[m]: xmonad.github.io is generated daily but for already released versions it's probably the same as hackage |
| 2021-11-25 16:16:23 +0100 | <liskin> | when you drop the version from the url then you get docs for the latest git master |
| 2021-11-25 16:17:03 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | ohk, thanks! |
| 2021-11-25 16:17:12 +0100 | <liskin> | at this particular point in time there's not much difference, though, but a month ago it would matter a lot |
| 2021-11-25 16:19:06 +0100 | qbt | (~qbt@user/edun) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-11-25 16:26:12 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | https://xmonad.github.io/xmonad-docs/xmonad-contrib/ <- for those that need the link |
| 2021-11-25 16:27:05 +0100 | atwm | (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) |
| 2021-11-25 16:27:08 +0100 | <Solid> | there is the difference that the former now has short description of all of the modules |
| 2021-11-25 16:27:30 +0100 | <liskin> | oh that as well! |
| 2021-11-25 16:27:39 +0100 | <Solid> | (which are now nowhere to be seen on hackage since we've removed them in X.D.Extending) |
| 2021-11-25 16:28:05 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Yeah that's cool. I'm in the process of reading through all of them to get ideas of what to do with my config |
| 2021-11-25 16:28:07 +0100 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-11-25 16:28:26 +0100 | srk | (~sorki@user/srk) |
| 2021-11-25 16:28:27 +0100 | atwm | (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-11-25 16:28:42 +0100 | atwm | (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) |
| 2021-11-25 16:29:24 +0100 | atwm | (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-11-25 16:29:40 +0100 | atwm | (~atwm@19-193-28-81.ftth.cust.kwaoo.net) |
| 2021-11-25 16:46:37 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
| 2021-11-25 16:47:23 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Is there any intention of better separating layout modules and layout modifier modules? |
| 2021-11-25 16:48:16 +0100 | <geekosaur> | there's some discussion of future directions there but it'll be a fairly radical change |
| 2021-11-25 16:48:30 +0100 | <geekosaur> | admittedly I don't know what you mean by better separating |
| 2021-11-25 16:48:43 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Well |
| 2021-11-25 16:48:50 +0100 | <geekosaur> | do you just mean in the module hierarchy, or something more fundamental? |
| 2021-11-25 16:49:12 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Without a description I have no way of knowing if X.L.Module is a layout or a modifier |
| 2021-11-25 16:49:18 +0100 | <Vermoot> | So yeah, I guess in the hierarcky |
| 2021-11-25 16:49:25 +0100 | <Vermoot> | s/k/h |
| 2021-11-25 16:50:07 +0100 | <geekosaur> | that'd be a fairly breaking change all by itself, sadly, although we could at least have a deprecation period where modifiers would be in both |
| 2021-11-25 16:50:52 +0100 | <geekosaur> | but we also have a bit of a, how do I put this… conflict? because the core provides one modifier (Mirror) |
| 2021-11-25 16:53:47 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Is there a kind of a manifest or something that explains the reasoning behind what should be in xmonad and what should be in contrib? |
| 2021-11-25 16:54:05 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I couldn't imagine using xmonad without the contrib stuff |
| 2021-11-25 16:54:33 +0100 | <geekosaur> | mostly the idea is the core is very small and simple and shouldn't change much |
| 2021-11-25 16:55:52 +0100 | <geekosaur> | I personally don't think this works out very well (and note the core had a decent number of changes both before and after the 0.17 release, according to my git pulls) and wonder if we should combine them, then split the result more sensibly because contrib is over 260 modules |
| 2021-11-25 16:56:21 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I've just seen this https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/pull/41 |
| 2021-11-25 16:56:35 +0100 | <Vermoot> | And now I'm very sad that this never came to be :D |
| 2021-11-25 16:57:26 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Oh and now I'm seeing you replied to the accompanying PR on contrib |
| 2021-11-25 16:59:08 +0100 | <geekosaur> | "closing as nonresponsive" strongly suggests someone could pick it up again |
| 2021-11-25 16:59:37 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Could someone with no haskell skills help it go along by... expressing interest? :D |
| 2021-11-25 17:00:15 +0100 | <geekosaur> | it'd encourage others to put some time in it; someone might think "but what if I'm the only one who cares?" but then see some bumps |
| 2021-11-25 17:00:34 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Alright then, I'll add a comment |
| 2021-11-25 17:01:00 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Although on a closed issue I don't imagine it'll get much visibility |
| 2021-11-25 17:02:05 +0100 | <geekosaur> | yeh, that's the one problem I have with just closing inactive issues, you need to query them with is:closed to see if there are any gold nuggets sitting around |
| 2021-11-25 17:02:12 +0100 | <geekosaur> | maybe we need an inactive state |
| 2021-11-25 17:02:54 +0100 | <geekosaur> | well, I guess closing a "I'm having a problem" with no response makes sense, just not one like this |
| 2021-11-25 17:03:08 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Probably yeah |
| 2021-11-25 17:03:25 +0100 | <Solid> | well, the other option is to have a lot of open PRs sitting around that are more or less clear to never become active again (like what we have in contrib right now) |
| 2021-11-25 17:04:19 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Maybe a better approach in this case would be to create a new issue referencing this PR? |
| 2021-11-25 17:06:51 +0100 | <liskin> | Solid: there aren't that many dead prs in contrib |
| 2021-11-25 17:07:07 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Unrelated: Is it a known issue that some changes in my config don't do anything upon recompiling, until I change my layoutHook? |
| 2021-11-25 17:07:23 +0100 | <liskin> | Except for the really old ones |
| 2021-11-25 17:07:24 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Sometimes I need to comment out a line, recompile, then uncomment the line and recompile |
| 2021-11-25 17:07:52 +0100 | <Solid> | I would count at least the bottom 5 as being dead |
| 2021-11-25 17:08:18 +0100 | <liskin> | Yeah those probably yes |
| 2021-11-25 17:08:21 +0100 | <geekosaur> | xmonad can't tell what layout changes come from code and what from runtime messages,m so you need to mod-shift-space to tell it that yes, you really want it to start over |
| 2021-11-25 17:08:56 +0100 | <liskin> | The rest I hoped to deal with, but there's just more coming in than I can do :-( |
| 2021-11-25 17:08:56 +0100 | <geekosaur> | this will also lose you anything you did with mod-j/mod-k/mod-./etc. |
| 2021-11-25 17:09:04 +0100 | <Solid> | actually, those + #454 since that person was keen to open another PR after I closed the old one but never gave me any reproducer :/ |
| 2021-11-25 17:09:18 +0100 | <geekosaur> | and my sister's here so happy thanksgiving for those who celebrate and I'll see you later for those that don't |
| 2021-11-25 17:09:40 +0100 | <Solid> | have fun :) |
| 2021-11-25 17:10:19 +0100 | liskin | has no idea what Thanksgiving is specifically but do enjoy any holiday/family time! :-) |
| 2021-11-25 17:19:46 +0100 | cfricke | (~cfricke@user/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.3) |
| 2021-11-25 17:27:21 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | I've got to say that this is the least toxic Matrix channel on Matrix, thank you everyone for being so kind, although I dont celebrate christmas, I wish the best for everyone |
| 2021-11-25 17:28:31 +0100 | <Vermoot> | Uh, sir, this is an IRC channel |
| 2021-11-25 17:28:35 +0100 | <Vermoot> | :D |
| 2021-11-25 17:28:59 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | s / aithough / although / (I have the shittest flu rn so forgive my spelling lol) |
| 2021-11-25 17:28:59 +0100 | <Vermoot> | (I should get into matrix, I really find IRC outdated) |
| 2021-11-25 17:31:57 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | I thought I saw an i but it seems like I spelt it right anyway, wtf |
| 2021-11-25 17:38:10 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 17:39:43 +0100 | <liskin> | I'd say something about Matrix but then we might not be the least toxic anyway more :-D |
| 2021-11-25 17:39:55 +0100 | <liskin> | *any |
| 2021-11-25 17:41:28 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Isn't this a matrix channel linked to irc? Last I knew irc doesn't have read receipts |
| 2021-11-25 17:42:42 +0100 | <Vermoot> | liskin, I'm interested in reading your criticisms of matrix |
| 2021-11-25 17:42:55 +0100 | <liskin> | We like to think about it as an IRC channel linked to Matrix but it probably doesn't make much difference |
| 2021-11-25 17:43:20 +0100 | <liskin> | Vermoot: I'm extremely unhappy about the client landscape |
| 2021-11-25 17:44:29 +0100 | gdd | (~gdd@129.199.146.230) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-11-25 17:45:05 +0100 | <liskin> | Vermoot: I'm used to IRC clients which come in all flavors including stuff like weechat with hundreds of settings and hundreds of 3rd party scripts, and most IRC clients have seen decades of development, but for Matrix it's just sooo immature |
| 2021-11-25 17:46:23 +0100 | gdd | (~gdd@129.199.146.230) |
| 2021-11-25 17:49:15 +0100 | <Solid> | for most contributors, it's better to think of it as an IRC channel linked to matrix, anyways :> |
| 2021-11-25 17:51:19 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Time to start a Haskell matrix client 😎 |
| 2021-11-25 17:52:28 +0100 | <Solid> | I'm waiting for ement.el to become usable, personally |
| 2021-11-25 17:52:37 +0100 | <Solid> | but really IRC is just so comfortable |
| 2021-11-25 17:52:43 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | I'm doing fine in the Element website/ Android app though, not really into modding my chat clients that much anymore |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:09 +0100 | vermoot[m] | (~vermootma@2001:470:69fc:105::1:3e1f) |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:11 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | Hello? |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:22 +0100 | <Solid> | hi |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:24 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | Ah, nice |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:49 +0100 | <liskin> | People say I'd get used to it. I've used the Discord web client for over a year and it's still massively annoying, even despite having user.css |
| 2021-11-25 17:54:51 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Matrix now? |
| 2021-11-25 17:55:04 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | See, one thing that immediately makes this better is: I can see the messages that were here when I wasn't. I know there's logs, but this is much more convenient |
| 2021-11-25 17:55:19 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Heh. Yea |
| 2021-11-25 17:55:28 +0100 | <Solid> | this is just someone else hosting a bouncer for you :> |
| 2021-11-25 17:55:54 +0100 | <Vermoot> | I mean, maybe |
| 2021-11-25 17:56:03 +0100 | <Vermoot> | That doesn't take anything away from it though |
| 2021-11-25 17:56:18 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | I shut down my bouncer last year. Nice that matrix does this for us |
| 2021-11-25 17:56:45 +0100 | <liskin> | My brain is simply incompatible with this web crap. It's an accessibility issue, always has been, but people don't think about it as such. People think accessibility is just for the blind and physically disabled, but it's not. |
| 2021-11-25 17:57:23 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | The bridge doesn't seem to be working very well though? I can see some messages on IRC that don't appear here |
| 2021-11-25 17:58:13 +0100 | <Solid> | well, that would be bad |
| 2021-11-25 17:58:21 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Oh, I would never know, as I am only here |
| 2021-11-25 17:59:08 +0100 | <liskin> | vermoot[m]: it's delayed today |
| 2021-11-25 17:59:18 +0100 | vermoot[m] | uploaded an image: (409KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QvoTZRmhKxMnJsIZRohMJGrB/2021-11-25-1… > |
| 2021-11-25 17:59:38 +0100 | <liskin> | Like dozens of seconds delayed :-( |
| 2021-11-25 18:00:06 +0100 | <Solid> | liskin: if it would make people listen to you more, feel free to phrase it as an issue about the blind |
| 2021-11-25 18:00:43 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Yeah, I didn't see that accessibility message either |
| 2021-11-25 18:00:43 +0100 | <Solid> | my phd advisor is blind (well, legally blind, he can still see) and he's _very_ enthusiastic about CLI software |
| 2021-11-25 18:00:58 +0100 | <Solid> | because nothing else scales as well |
| 2021-11-25 18:01:53 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Yeah, I enjoy the convenience |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:07 +0100 | <liskin> | Interesting, I wonder if other blind users feel the same |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:19 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | Yeah that bouncer message was a WHILE ago thonoht |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:43 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Hmm |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:52 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | matrix > IRC is instant, but IRC > matrix takes several minutes to happen right now |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:55 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | As a response to my bouncer message? |
| 2021-11-25 18:02:59 +0100 | <liskin> | I'd expect web stuff to have caught up with accessibility for the blind by now |
| 2021-11-25 18:03:08 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | That would make sense |
| 2021-11-25 18:03:27 +0100 | <Solid> | the problem is that no one tests their websites at 500% or 600% zoom |
| 2021-11-25 18:03:31 +0100 | <thonoht[m]> | Oooh yeah, now I see the accessibility message |
| 2021-11-25 18:03:44 +0100 | <Solid> | and screen readers I would imagine get really confused by a lot of js |
| 2021-11-25 18:04:54 +0100 | <liskin> | Well does anyone test cli in 30x20 terminals? :-) |
| 2021-11-25 18:05:59 +0100 | <Solid> | well, not much to test there except that text scales :> |
| 2021-11-25 18:06:33 +0100 | <Solid> | well, granted, I would imagine he had to customize e.g. where mutt puts things |
| 2021-11-25 18:07:02 +0100 | vermoot[m] | uploaded an image: (34KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/WZOYWBIjzWcvBfVoUKQoCqse/image.png > |
| 2021-11-25 18:07:04 +0100 | <vermoot[m]> | I disagree |
| 2021-11-25 18:07:24 +0100 | <Solid> | (I think something along the lines of 35x20 is what he often uses on a 27" screen or something) |
| 2021-11-25 18:08:01 +0100 | <liskin> | having the option to customize in the first place surely did help a lot, though :-) |
| 2021-11-25 18:08:05 +0100 | <Solid> | indeed |
| 2021-11-25 18:08:20 +0100 | <Solid> | vermoot[m]: okay, I guess if you customize your setup then it gets more complicated |
| 2021-11-25 18:08:22 +0100 | <liskin> | (which was my original point, I just completely forgot about this group of people) |
| 2021-11-25 18:08:29 +0100 | <Solid> | but a vanilla vi or emacs scales very well |
| 2021-11-25 18:13:59 +0100 | <liskin> | hm, I tried how some of my programs handle --help in 36x10 and it's not too bad |
| 2021-11-25 18:14:13 +0100 | <FOSSHuman[m]> | I also absoloutely hate Element and it's forks, there's a CLI matrix client called gomuks which is what I use currently |
| 2021-11-25 18:15:21 +0100 | FOSSHuman[m] | uploaded an image: < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/CxnIvKOJMOAtnQmVoJZXqJMc/*%202021-11-… > |
| 2021-11-25 18:15:25 +0100 | seschwar | (~seschwar@user/seschwar) |
| 2021-11-25 18:16:35 +0100 | <liskin> | I'm kind of hoping https://github.com/poljar/weechat-matrix-rs becomes usable soon enough |
| 2021-11-25 18:17:18 +0100 | <liskin> | the recent release of python 3.9.9 at least (supposedly) makes it possible to run wee-slack and the old weechat-matrix in one instance |
| 2021-11-25 18:17:47 +0100 | <liskin> | but weechat-matrix is very limited, one needs to launch Element way too often |
| 2021-11-25 18:58:31 +0100 | benin | (~benin@183.82.179.164) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2021-11-25 19:10:07 +0100 | <noex> | liskin: i feel the same way about discord. it seemed like the discord plugins all got discontinued over bans |
| 2021-11-25 19:10:28 +0100 | <noex> | apparently the way they worked was against the TOS |
| 2021-11-25 19:11:13 +0100 | <noex> | i just really wish discord was a simple weechat plugin |
| 2021-11-25 19:12:00 +0100 | <noex> | kind of like bitlbee/facebook chat integration is (or at least used to be) |
| 2021-11-25 19:24:17 +0100 | <liskin> | noex: yeah |
| 2021-11-25 19:24:46 +0100 | <liskin> | on the other hand Discords tend to have _lots_ of channels, and my weechat would be swamped with them |
| 2021-11-25 19:25:23 +0100 | <liskin> | in the official client I mute some of them, and then use the inbox (which I user-styled to be larger) to read stuff, and that makes it bearable |
| 2021-11-25 19:26:00 +0100 | <liskin> | so, I mean, it has things I'd miss in weechat, and weechat has things I miss in Discord :-/ |
| 2021-11-25 19:26:37 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-11-25 19:29:12 +0100 | geekosaur | (~geekosaur@xmonad/geekosaur) |
| 2021-11-25 20:17:21 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
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| 2021-11-25 21:39:03 +0100 | dschrempf | (~dominik@070-207.dynamic.dsl.fonira.net) |
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| 2021-11-25 22:18:17 +0100 | qbt | (~qbt@user/edun) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-11-25 22:27:22 +0100 | benin | (~benin@183.82.179.164) |
| 2021-11-25 23:11:28 +0100 | mc47 | (~mc47@xmonad/TheMC47) (Remote host closed the connection) |
