IRCBrowse

2021/05/17

2021-05-17 00:00:28 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2021-05-17 00:01:56 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:8515:6952:6c0e:748) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-17 00:02:31 +0200dmytrish(~mitra@2a02:8084:a82:d900:581:a2bd:73ab:25fb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 00:04:20 +0200 <cdsmith> Oh, found a better example, though.
2021-05-17 00:04:25 +0200 <cdsmith> > sum (replicate 100 0.01)
2021-05-17 00:04:26 +0200 <lambdabot> 1.0000000000000007
2021-05-17 00:06:36 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:8dd2:2363:77ad:18a2) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-17 00:06:41 +0200 <boxscape> > 0.1 + 0.2
2021-05-17 00:06:43 +0200 <lambdabot> 0.30000000000000004
2021-05-17 00:07:59 +0200chris__(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-05-17 00:08:22 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 00:08:59 +0200 <cdsmith> Yeah, but I like (replicate 100 0.01) because it's basically guaranteed to give an incorrect result regardless of details (unless the radix is a multiple of 10...)
2021-05-17 00:09:26 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
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2021-05-17 00:12:31 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-05-17 00:16:28 +0200Rudd0^(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
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2021-05-17 00:19:09 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-05-17 00:24:16 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.113)
2021-05-17 00:25:28 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06)
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2021-05-17 00:30:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-17 00:30:51 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-05-17 00:35:14 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> Are Haskell libraries regular `elf` `.so` files? (I'm trying to get more aware of the building process, so I don't freak out every time something goes wrong. Next link says, when it's compiled, it's `.so` file: https://rufflewind.com/2017-02-25/using-libraries.)
2021-05-17 00:35:37 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 00:35:50 +0200 <mniip> haskell libraries consist of .so objects containing executable code, and .hi files containing haskell interfaces
2021-05-17 00:36:14 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> tx
2021-05-17 00:36:29 +0200 <mniip> the latter includes anything to do with types, pragmas, unfoldings for inlinings, etc
2021-05-17 00:36:48 +0200 <mniip> stuff like how to better optimize a program using this library etc
2021-05-17 00:37:43 +0200 <mniip> you don't need that information at runtime, hence not part of the .so, but you need that information to compile something against the library using a *haskell* library barrier and not a *C* library barrier
2021-05-17 00:37:57 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> This latter part is used during the first stages of the compilation: type checking, etc?
2021-05-17 00:38:11 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> okay
2021-05-17 00:38:16 +0200 <mniip> it's used throughout
2021-05-17 00:39:25 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-17 00:39:50 +0200 <mniip> I had some slides for this somewhere
2021-05-17 00:39:51 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-05-17 00:40:23 +0200 <mniip> http://tcp.st/dhupy.png
2021-05-17 00:40:30 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> nice.
2021-05-17 00:40:35 +0200 <mniip> http://tcp.st/yh_mh.png
2021-05-17 00:40:44 +0200 <mniip> vastly simplified but generally the idea
2021-05-17 00:40:59 +0200 <mniip> dependent modules' hi files are loaded somewhere around parse/rename
2021-05-17 00:43:13 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-05-17 00:43:16 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-05-17 00:44:35 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> So, usually, when you need a haskell-library to compile some haskell file of yours, you do not need the source code for the lib. The elf-amd64 binaries and `.hi` files, installed at the right location, might be sufficient?
2021-05-17 00:45:10 +0200 <mniip> yes
2021-05-17 00:45:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-17 00:45:27 +0200 <mniip> the story has a few more steps in it to do with packages though
2021-05-17 00:45:48 +0200 <mniip> ghc has a package database which lists for every package its modules and where to find the so's, hi's etc
2021-05-17 00:45:58 +0200 <mniip> when you import a module ghc looks into the package database
2021-05-17 00:46:15 +0200hmachado(~hmachado@185.163.110.100) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 00:46:36 +0200 <geekosaur> the package db tells it not only where to find the .so and .hi but also how to link them and any dependencies including external/C dependencies
2021-05-17 00:46:38 +0200patlv(~patlv@unaffiliated/patlv) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 00:46:47 +0200 <mniip> good point
2021-05-17 00:46:56 +0200 <mniip> another thing to mention is that ghc has these things called "ways"
2021-05-17 00:47:20 +0200 <mniip> which are significant alterations of what the compiled code (and possibly the RTS) looks like
2021-05-17 00:47:40 +0200 <mniip> this includes stuff like threaded-ness, profiling, dynamic linking support
2021-05-17 00:48:13 +0200 <mniip> enabling/disabling these options will produce vastly different code, hence ghc will use different suffixes for compilation products
2021-05-17 00:48:27 +0200 <mniip> e.g. .dyn_o, .dyn_hi
2021-05-17 00:49:54 +0200 <mniip> this is the foe of archlinux's haskell packages
2021-05-17 00:50:34 +0200 <mniip> because they only include things built in the "dyn" way, hence you cannot link against the libraries you install unless you also compile your program in the "dyn" way
2021-05-17 00:51:09 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-05-17 00:51:12 +0200 <mniip> the generally accepted understanding is that using distribution-provided packages for developing haskell programs is a Bad Idea
2021-05-17 00:51:38 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> That I gathered
2021-05-17 00:54:20 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 00:54:21 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 00:54:27 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> Cabal is finding the libraries installed on your system (I mean among other things).
2021-05-17 00:54:44 +0200xcmw(~textual@2603-6011-2200-f103-1090-4073-ea46-f74d.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-17 00:55:33 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-17 00:56:29 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b)
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2021-05-17 00:58:04 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-05-17 00:58:57 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
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2021-05-17 00:59:20 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-05-17 00:59:55 +0200 <geekosaur> cabal is maintaining per-project package databases to avoid version conflicts, among other things
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2021-05-17 01:02:09 +0200xcmw(~textual@2603-6011-2200-f103-1090-4073-ea46-f74d.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-05-17 01:02:31 +0200pav5088(~pav5088@138.199.47.158)
2021-05-17 01:03:08 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 01:03:10 +0200zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@unaffiliated/zfnmxt) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-05-17 01:05:35 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06)
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2021-05-17 01:08:47 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> "Kpathsea is a library to do path searching". I suppose the way Cabal is finding things is unrelated to "kpathsea". I suppose the libraries, which are packaged, can be installed in different places on the system: like system wide (which we said is discouraged), in ~/.local (?), in the project directory itself. And Cabal is looking for them at these places.
2021-05-17 01:10:11 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-05-17 01:10:49 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 01:10:59 +0200hgolden(~hgolden2@cpe-172-114-84-61.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-05-17 01:11:54 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.105)
2021-05-17 01:12:09 +0200 <geekosaur> ghc does that looking. cabal is about managing things so ghc sees only what it should see for a given project, to avoid it grabbing the wrong versions of things
2021-05-17 01:12:39 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> ok
2021-05-17 01:12:47 +0200 <geekosaur> because grabbing the wrong versions of things was what it did under cabal v1 which only managed global and per-user packages
2021-05-17 01:14:46 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 01:14:47 +0200 <geekosaur> hence what was miscalled "cabal hell" but was really ghc's fault because rather than track version dependencies it grabbed the first version of something it found, and would do things like diamond dependencies where package A was built against B 1.0, package C was built against B 1.1, then ghc would happily try to link A with C without recomciling
2021-05-17 01:14:47 +0200 <geekosaur> Bs
2021-05-17 01:17:44 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-05-17 01:18:26 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> Was it that "gap" that "stack" was here to fix? (I mean I've always used stack...)
2021-05-17 01:18:58 +0200ixlun(~user@109.249.184.235) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 01:19:27 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> Trying to introduce more consistency in which version of the package was used?
2021-05-17 01:19:43 +0200 <geekosaur> stack was the first to address this problem. cabal v2 then came up with an alternative solution
2021-05-17 01:19:59 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> got it
2021-05-17 01:20:06 +0200 <geekosaur> stack's solution being to start from well defined ghc+set of packages
2021-05-17 01:20:34 +0200 <geekosaur> so everything would have  a consistent baseline to work from
2021-05-17 01:20:50 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> So maybe easier to use.
2021-05-17 01:21:11 +0200 <geekosaur> esier in some ways, but nearly impossible if you needed a combination there isn't an lts for
2021-05-17 01:21:16 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p5487d90a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 01:21:28 +0200ixlun(~user@109.249.184.235)
2021-05-17 01:21:36 +0200 <inkbottle[m]> Yes, that I understand
2021-05-17 01:21:58 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 01:22:00 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 01:22:36 +0200 <Uniaika> geekosaur: <3 thanks for signing the letter on Freenode's independence, with dibblego
2021-05-17 01:23:01 +0200 <geekosaur> np
2021-05-17 01:23:12 +0200 <dibblego> :)
2021-05-17 01:23:53 +0200 <Uniaika> (:
2021-05-17 01:23:53 +0200 <sclv> well, sandboxes were the first solution
2021-05-17 01:24:14 +0200 <sclv> there was a seperate tool for them cabal-dev or something. then cabal incorporated them. then stack sort of "generalized" them
2021-05-17 01:24:41 +0200 <geekosaur> stack came before cabal sandboxes, I think?
2021-05-17 01:25:08 +0200 <dcoutts__> no, cabal sandboxes were first
2021-05-17 01:25:12 +0200dcoutts__dcoutts
2021-05-17 01:25:20 +0200 <sclv> and also there was an external tool for sandboxes before cabal incorporated them
2021-05-17 01:25:34 +0200 <dcoutts> yeah, cabal-dev
2021-05-17 01:25:34 +0200 <sclv> btw what letter on freenode?
2021-05-17 01:25:37 +0200 <geekosaur> right, I know the external tool came first
2021-05-17 01:26:00 +0200 <geekosaur> https://gist.github.com/shadowcat-mst/998cea12794768bdb3da2daeff31baad
2021-05-17 01:26:21 +0200 <geekosaur> the owner of PIA's trying to stage a takeover
2021-05-17 01:27:18 +0200 <geekosaur> discussion currently taking place in #haskell-ops
2021-05-17 01:27:57 +0200 <sclv> ugh ok thanks
2021-05-17 01:28:04 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
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2021-05-17 01:42:51 +0200mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2021-05-17 01:43:17 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
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2021-05-17 01:51:05 +0200 <Axman6> "These are not to be confused with unit types like C's void or Haskell's (), which are types that have a single value (and consequently carry no information)." - from this statement, can it be said that Void carried more information than (), because it implies non-termination?
2021-05-17 01:51:30 +0200aVikingTrex(~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-05-17 01:51:46 +0200 <Axman6> carries*
2021-05-17 01:53:39 +0200 <hpc> Void has one value, bottom
2021-05-17 01:53:45 +0200 <hpc> () has bottom and ()
2021-05-17 01:53:58 +0200 <hpc> but usefully distinguishing between bottom and () breaks the rules, depending on how you look at it
2021-05-17 01:55:45 +0200 <hpc> so maybe you can say that, depends on what you decide to take into account in your reasoning
2021-05-17 01:57:00 +0200 <Axman6> yeahb I was mostly choosing to ignore bottoms for now
2021-05-17 01:57:29 +0200patlv(~patlv@unaffiliated/patlv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 02:01:33 +0200 <pavonia> In this function definition <https://hackage.haskell.org/package/JuicyPixels-3.3.5/docs/src/Codec.Picture.Types.html#pixelBaseI…>, why does (undefined :: a) refer to the class variable? Shouldn't there be an explicit forall?
2021-05-17 02:01:37 +0200atk(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK) (Quit: Well this is unexpected.)
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2021-05-17 02:04:15 +0200 <geekosaur> not as part of a class definition, iirc, all types declared in the class head are available inside the class definition even without explicit forall or ScopedTypeVariables
2021-05-17 02:04:41 +0200 <geekosaur> otherwise it'd be hard to associate them properly with the class head
2021-05-17 02:06:24 +0200 <pavonia> Yeah, seems to be different for classes indeed https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/scoped_type_variables.html#class-and-insta…
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2021-05-17 02:19:03 +0200 <hpc> Axman6: the best you can do is essentially
2021-05-17 02:19:11 +0200leah2(~leah@vuxu.org) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 02:19:26 +0200 <hpc> Axman6: er, is essentially "if bottom then crash" with seq or whatever
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2021-05-17 02:26:16 +0200 <boxscape> join #ghc
2021-05-17 02:26:21 +0200 <boxscape> whoops
2021-05-17 02:26:38 +0200 <Axman6> Urgh, I'm so sick of compiler spam on freenode :P
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2021-05-17 02:36:39 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-05-17 02:37:54 +0200 <monochrom> C's void is not to be confused with Haskel's () in the first place.
2021-05-17 02:38:07 +0200 <Axman6> yeah I did think that was a bit of an odd statement
2021-05-17 02:38:19 +0200 <Axman6> you can't have a value of type void in C right?
2021-05-17 02:38:34 +0200 <monochrom> There is a general theme. People also confuse Java interface with Haskell type class.
2021-05-17 02:39:03 +0200 <monochrom> Generally, when two different solutions solve the same problem, people will conflate the two solutions.
2021-05-17 02:39:25 +0200 <monochrom> You can't even declare a variable of type void. "void x".
2021-05-17 02:41:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
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2021-05-17 02:43:27 +0200 <monochrom> I can argue that void is not even a type. With that, "does void have values?" is not even a valid question.
2021-05-17 02:43:44 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 02:43:44 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-05-17 02:43:49 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@206.214.238.6)
2021-05-17 02:44:58 +0200 <monochrom> Reason being void cannot be used at most places where all other types can be used. "void x;", "int f(void y, void z)", "struct S { void a; };"
2021-05-17 02:45:34 +0200rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eilhkhwsqqonwkqr)
2021-05-17 02:46:50 +0200 <olligobber> % data Void
2021-05-17 02:46:50 +0200 <yahb> olligobber:
2021-05-17 02:46:57 +0200 <olligobber> % :t undefined :: Void
2021-05-17 02:46:57 +0200 <yahb> olligobber: Void
2021-05-17 02:47:07 +0200 <olligobber> I made something of type Void, yay
2021-05-17 02:47:13 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 02:47:20 +0200 <monochrom> % data Voila
2021-05-17 02:47:20 +0200 <yahb> monochrom:
2021-05-17 02:47:22 +0200 <Axman6> prove it
2021-05-17 02:47:36 +0200 <pjb> Yes, in C, void is just a keyword that means different things depending on the context.
2021-05-17 02:47:38 +0200 <monochrom> You made Void a type. Voila!
2021-05-17 02:47:48 +0200 <pjb> void f(); means f doesn't return a value.
2021-05-17 02:47:52 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 02:48:13 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 02:48:16 +0200 <pjb> f(void); means f doesn't take any argument (vs f() which means that f can take any number of arguments).
2021-05-17 02:48:33 +0200 <pjb> void* denotes a type of pointer to anything.
2021-05-17 02:48:42 +0200 <olligobber> Axman6, the compiler said the type of my thing is Void, so it is
2021-05-17 02:48:43 +0200 <monochrom> Let's be semantic. "void f()" means that the function analogy really breaks down, f is a procedure not a function.
2021-05-17 02:48:52 +0200 <pjb> exactly.
2021-05-17 02:50:13 +0200 <monochrom> It is somewhat cute that with void you can get rid of two verbose reserved words "function" and "procedure" from Pascal. There is credit for that.
2021-05-17 02:51:21 +0200 <monochrom> This is also where Dunning-Kruger is right about syntax doing brainwashing.
2021-05-17 02:53:11 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 02:53:58 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
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2021-05-17 02:54:24 +0200 <pjb> monochrom: it's just an after the fact kludge.
2021-05-17 02:55:49 +0200 <pjb> It took about ten years for void to appear in C.
2021-05-17 02:55:53 +0200 <monochrom> The road to hell is paved with well-intended kludges >:)
2021-05-17 02:56:14 +0200ericsagn1(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:b6b3:41e:9821:2954) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 02:59:38 +0200 <boxscape> what did C do before void?
2021-05-17 02:59:52 +0200 <boxscape> ..just have int as return type I guess?
2021-05-17 02:59:53 +0200 <geekosaur> not bother to return int
2021-05-17 02:59:59 +0200 <boxscape> okay
2021-05-17 03:00:12 +0200 <boxscape> right return is optional..
2021-05-17 03:00:47 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:c2b0:caa:38f9:fe49) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:01:24 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-17 03:02:12 +0200bearcarl(716a6a62@113.106.106.98)
2021-05-17 03:02:18 +0200 <pjb> boxscape: yes, by default f(); returns an int. But if you don't use return n; the result is just what is in the register.
2021-05-17 03:02:25 +0200 <boxscape> I see
2021-05-17 03:02:50 +0200 <Axman6> what id you don't have registers
2021-05-17 03:02:52 +0200 <Axman6> if*
2021-05-17 03:02:55 +0200 <pjb> boxscape: of course, it would be bad style to int r=f(); if f doesn't contain a return n; … Some compilers started to issue warning.
2021-05-17 03:03:02 +0200 <pjb> then AT& introduced void.
2021-05-17 03:03:13 +0200 <pjb> Axman6: whatever there was on the stack then.
2021-05-17 03:03:46 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know whether I should also ask "what if there is no stack" :)
2021-05-17 03:03:47 +0200 <pjb> It's was just kludges upon kludges really.
2021-05-17 03:04:03 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Excess Flood)
2021-05-17 03:04:05 +0200 <monochrom> I agree.
2021-05-17 03:04:24 +0200 <pjb> Eg. the declaration matches use form, was just a kludge to use the same parsing code for both, in early compilers that had to run with 4kw of RAM…
2021-05-17 03:04:43 +0200 <monochrom> generally s/register/whatever default place the caller expects to find return values/
2021-05-17 03:05:13 +0200 <geekosaur> which was memory on some IBM CPUs iirc
2021-05-17 03:05:44 +0200 <pjb> or on the PDP-7 they started unix on.
2021-05-17 03:06:03 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah. Recall that before Peter Naur taught the world how to support recursion, ...
2021-05-17 03:06:13 +0200 <pjb> Mind you, at the time, unix sources contained in general a single function per source file! Check them in git!
2021-05-17 03:06:40 +0200 <pjb> Well, it was already implemented in lisp in 1959…
2021-05-17 03:06:43 +0200 <monochrom> Each procedure is given a static memory area for being passed parameters and passing return values.
2021-05-17 03:06:58 +0200 <monochrom> and is exactly why people couldn't support recursion.
2021-05-17 03:07:41 +0200 <pjb> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo
2021-05-17 03:08:06 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::cafd)
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2021-05-17 03:14:19 +0200 <boxscape> pretty weird to see "52 years ago" in a github repo
2021-05-17 03:14:55 +0200 <monochrom> and don't forget https://github.com/dmr-1941-2011 :)
2021-05-17 03:15:09 +0200 <monochrom> "wow you can do that?!"
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2021-05-17 03:31:56 +0200 <Axman6> if anyone was wondering what prompted my question about Void and (), it was https://counterexamples.org/, which is doing a great reaffirming how I feel about Java and Scala
2021-05-17 03:34:47 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2021-05-17 03:35:27 +0200 <Axman6> Not that Haskell's type system comes out unscathed
2021-05-17 03:36:12 +0200 <monochrom> Java has instanceof which breaks parametricity in the first place.
2021-05-17 03:36:31 +0200 <monochrom> To be sure, most people don't actually use it to troll.
2021-05-17 03:37:31 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
2021-05-17 03:37:36 +0200 <Axman6> if(obj isinstanceof JimsObject) { throw GodIHateJimException(); }
2021-05-17 03:37:47 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-17 03:37:59 +0200 <Axman6> uh, -is
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2021-05-17 03:39:41 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@171.76.17.86)
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2021-05-17 03:42:30 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> :t \v -> case v of Error e -> error "Error"; Success v -> insert_ v
2021-05-17 03:42:31 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-05-17 03:42:31 +0200 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Error’
2021-05-17 03:42:32 +0200 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant variable ‘error’ (imported from Prelude)
2021-05-17 03:42:39 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b)
2021-05-17 03:43:11 +0200patlv(~patlv@unaffiliated/patlv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:46:44 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:46:47 +0200 <Axman6> The note at the end of https://counterexamples.org/distinctness-options.html is reassuring
2021-05-17 03:47:09 +0200ThinkPad(~user@2603-8080-4904-7592-f1d1-497c-8bbd-901a.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:48:44 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-71.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-05-17 03:48:45 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 03:49:02 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> Axman6: perhaps this is relevant to me...?
2021-05-17 03:49:55 +0200vsssa(bade4a4f@186.222.74.79)
2021-05-17 03:49:56 +0200 <Axman6> It's relevant to anyone using programming languages, but as far as I can see from your code above, it's not immediately relevant to your problem
2021-05-17 03:50:43 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5322:8600:89e1:ee88:e1af:1ae6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:50:50 +0200 <Axman6> a6a45081-2b83: are you having a problem wiht that code that we can help you with?
2021-05-17 03:51:04 +0200 <Axman6> with*
2021-05-17 03:51:06 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> that would be great
2021-05-17 03:51:32 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 03:51:53 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> error branch infers as String, success branch infers as ReaderT a b
2021-05-17 03:52:17 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:535b:1600:c038:9b40:2a0a:496d)
2021-05-17 03:52:18 +0200 <Axman6> what is the type of insert_?
2021-05-17 03:52:40 +0200 <Axman6> and I assume that there's something like data Result e a = Error e | Success a?
2021-05-17 03:53:17 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> got it, I was having (error "error" ++ e) instead of (error $ "error" ++ e)
2021-05-17 03:53:18 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> :((
2021-05-17 03:53:34 +0200 <Axman6> That'll do it :)
2021-05-17 03:53:40 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> hence it was expecting error :: String -> String
2021-05-17 03:55:38 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
2021-05-17 03:55:39 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Changing host)
2021-05-17 03:55:39 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz)
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2021-05-17 03:56:02 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> I wasted lot of time after it
2021-05-17 03:56:21 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 03:56:26 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> on another note, I planned to write a side project to scrape some sites and cache in sqlite database, learned a lot of things
2021-05-17 03:57:02 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> although this'd be easier in python, i got to know lenses, transformers, persistant, http-conduit, aeson
2021-05-17 03:57:03 +0200 <Axman6> I've been programming in Haskell for over a decade and still make exactly that error pretty frequently
2021-05-17 03:57:12 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> :)
2021-05-17 03:57:40 +0200 <Axman6> nice, that's sounds like an exceppent project, particularly if you get to learn to many useful libraries
2021-05-17 03:58:47 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> still wrapping my head around so many lens operators and template haskell
2021-05-17 03:58:58 +0200deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
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2021-05-17 04:08:04 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> any idea how can i rate limit my requests, will I have to record time and have a custom wait logic?
2021-05-17 04:09:04 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-05-17 04:09:45 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:b0b3:4831:47cc:ab06)
2021-05-17 04:09:50 +0200parabolize(~paraboliz@98.43.173.221)
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2021-05-17 04:15:04 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> I think I can use Control.thread.Concurrent.delay
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2021-05-17 04:17:32 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.105)
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2021-05-17 04:22:25 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.105) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-17 04:22:31 +0200 <Axman6> searching for rate limit on hackage is likely to find some good results
2021-05-17 04:23:33 +0200finn_elijaGuest86616
2021-05-17 04:23:33 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-05-17 04:24:34 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 04:25:39 +0200 <Axman6> such as the rate-limit package: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rate-limit-1.4.2/docs/Control-RateLimit.html
2021-05-17 04:25:49 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::cafd) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-05-17 04:31:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-05-17 04:33:25 +0200 <cdsmith> Wondering if there's an answer I'm missing here: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest works, but hpc doesn't show the resulting test coverage. The alternative of testing everything twice isn't very appealing either. Anyone know a way to extract the doctests at build time instead of at runtime?
2021-05-17 04:37:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 04:39:38 +0200 <Axman6> does adding -fhpc do the testsuite's compiler flags do anything?
2021-05-17 04:40:01 +0200 <Axman6> "Alternatively you can pass any GHC options to Doctest, e.g.:
2021-05-17 04:40:01 +0200 <Axman6> doctest -XCPP Foo.hs"
2021-05-17 04:40:17 +0200 <geekosaur> @hackage cabal-doctest ?
2021-05-17 04:40:17 +0200 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-doctest ?
2021-05-17 04:41:51 +0200 <cdsmith> Hmm, I didn't try that. I will.
2021-05-17 04:42:14 +0200 <Axman6> looks like hpc .tix files can be combined too
2021-05-17 04:43:31 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-17 04:45:24 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 04:45:27 +0200 <Axman6> while searching I came across a page listing the compilers available on a Queensland university's HPC environment, and was surprised to see GHC at the top of the list (though, the description of "GHC is a state-of-the-art, open source, compiler" and "Available versions: 7.6.2" made me chuckle a bit). I wonder who got that installed on there
2021-05-17 04:45:33 +0200 <cdsmith> Just adding -fhpc didn't fix it. That's not too surprising, since I think cabal does a bunch of work to decide where to write the tix files and then generate an HTML report with the right ones.
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2021-05-17 05:28:47 +0200guest517(~user@49.5.6.87)
2021-05-17 05:30:22 +0200 <guest517> how to quickly check if a string contain several strings by order? like "I want to eat chicken for lunch" contain ["eat", "chicken", "lunch"]
2021-05-17 05:31:04 +0200 <guest517> I could use splitOn or splitAt to check and match, but that's ugly
2021-05-17 05:31:11 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 05:31:15 +0200 <monochrom> Not sure "quickly" means "code up quickly" or "runs quickly"
2021-05-17 05:31:17 +0200 <guest517> I wonder is there an elegent way
2021-05-17 05:31:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.178)
2021-05-17 05:31:52 +0200 <guest517> monochrom: runs quickly
2021-05-17 05:31:59 +0200 <Axman6> @hoogle [a] -> [a] -> ([a],[a])
2021-05-17 05:32:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.List.Match splitAt :: [b] -> [a] -> ([a], [a])
2021-05-17 05:32:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Util splitAtList :: [b] -> [a] -> ([a], [a])
2021-05-17 05:32:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Util zipAndUnzip :: [a] -> [b] -> ([a], [b])
2021-05-17 05:32:04 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 05:32:11 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know of the most efficient algorithm.
2021-05-17 05:32:42 +0200 <Axman6> looks like splitAt and a recursive call over the list of wanted words would work - I doubt there's amore efficient way without using Text
2021-05-17 05:33:18 +0200 <monochrom> Or rather, I suspect that efficient algorithms are ugly.
2021-05-17 05:33:59 +0200 <Axman6> compile a regex =)
2021-05-17 05:34:24 +0200 <Axman6> "eat.+chicken.+lunch"
2021-05-17 05:34:27 +0200 <monochrom> This is worse than most people's idea of regex, since this is "and" rather than "or".
2021-05-17 05:34:50 +0200 <guest517> check if the string contain all the elements, then check if the index elements in the string sequenced by order
2021-05-17 05:35:08 +0200 <monochrom> Also I don't think the intention is as easy as "verify that eat, check, lunch occur in that order"
2021-05-17 05:35:50 +0200 <monochrom> Anyway, since this is "and", you are looking at constructing a product automaton.
2021-05-17 05:35:58 +0200 <monochrom> Ugly as f**k.
2021-05-17 05:36:24 +0200 <Axman6> I mean, as much as I hate to suggest it, a regex would let you get that information out directly. "(eat|are).+(chicken|beef|tofu).+(lunch|dinner|breakfast)" would give you the information that it matched, and the ability to inspect each match
2021-05-17 05:36:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.178) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 05:36:52 +0200 <Axman6> s/are/ate
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2021-05-17 05:38:58 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:bc:57f7:8c4d:37b8)
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2021-05-17 05:41:45 +0200 <boxscape> I'm reasonably sure that this isn't the fastest implementation due to the length call https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5uOrS3bT
2021-05-17 05:41:55 +0200 <boxscape> but it's something I guess
2021-05-17 05:42:39 +0200 <boxscape> I guess it might be worse than splitAt variants though...
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2021-05-17 05:59:01 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> how to embed the state monad inside another monad using stateT? will I have to add lift everywhere?
2021-05-17 06:00:33 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 06:00:46 +0200 <davean> if your operations are based on class, no. But otherwise maybe
2021-05-17 06:00:51 +0200 <monochrom> That's a very broad question so I have a very broad answer. Just take a look at any StateT tutorial? They have examples.
2021-05-17 06:01:06 +0200 <Axman6> containsAll [] _ = True; containsAll (needle:needles) haystack = case T.breakOn needle haystack of (_,"") -> False; (_,rest) -> containsAll needles (T.drop (T.length needle) rest)
2021-05-17 06:01:34 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> monochrom: looking at https://wiki.haskell.org/Simple_StateT_use, brb
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2021-05-17 06:05:08 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.139)
2021-05-17 06:07:24 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-05-17 06:08:43 +0200aVikingTrex(~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-05-17 06:09:06 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> ok so I have a ReaderT monad wrapping an IO monad. I want to wrap this with a stateT monad, which lift operations do I need?
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2021-05-17 06:14:12 +0200 <aVikingTrex> a6a45081-2b83: what about RWS monad?
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2021-05-17 06:19:50 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> what is that?
2021-05-17 06:20:07 +0200 <a6a45081-2b83> let me look that up
2021-05-17 06:20:29 +0200 <aVikingTrex> Its a transformer that handles Reader, Writer and State
2021-05-17 06:20:39 +0200 <aVikingTrex> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-RWS-CPS.html#g:1
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2021-05-17 07:12:01 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-05-17 07:12:03 +0200 <libertyprime> haskell tooling makes me want to tear my hair out sometimes. how to set a different rc file for ghci when there is only the option -ignore-dot-ghci to disable it? .ghci should be called .ghcirc because its name makes it appear like it could be a directory. what happens when you combine -ghci-script with -ignore-dot-ghci? the man page will keep you guessing. why does it use -ignore-dot-ghci instead
2021-05-17 07:12:09 +0200 <libertyprime> of --ignore-dot-ghci. double dash is ...
2021-05-17 07:12:11 +0200 <libertyprime> ... standard. etc. it makes me feel unwell to use haskell tooling sometimes
2021-05-17 07:12:14 +0200 <libertyprime> ^^ rant. sorry
2021-05-17 07:12:30 +0200a6a45081-2b83(~aditya@171.76.17.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 07:13:47 +0200 <libertyprime> actually. im sorry for raging here. that type of conversation belongs in a reddit or a blog post.
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2021-05-17 07:22:34 +0200 <mniip> libertyprime, there is only one ghc option that uses a double dash
2021-05-17 07:22:40 +0200 <mniip> everything else is consistently single dash
2021-05-17 07:22:58 +0200 <mniip> well ok maybe not one
2021-05-17 07:23:19 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.10) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 07:23:31 +0200 <mniip> double-dashed options generally tell ghc to do something else other than compile a file
2021-05-17 07:23:46 +0200 <mniip> be it --help, or --show-iface
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2021-05-17 09:10:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, why does inRange have a seemingly flipped argument order?
2021-05-17 09:11:19 +0200 <dminuoso> This seems more natural to me: 1 `inRange` (1,3)
2021-05-17 09:12:08 +0200 <opqdonut> maybe it's meant to be partially applied in prefix form
2021-05-17 09:12:20 +0200 <opqdonut> like `filter (inRange (1,3)) xs`
2021-05-17 09:12:22 +0200chele(~chele@ip5b40237d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-05-17 09:12:48 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah yeah, perhaps.
2021-05-17 09:13:43 +0200 <Putonlalla> How often the "more constant argument first" convention is violated in Haskell is one of the most annoying things in it for me.
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2021-05-17 09:14:44 +0200 <Putonlalla> Functions and operators not being distinct language features is one of the reasons it happens so often.
2021-05-17 09:15:06 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 09:15:20 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-05-17 09:15:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Is this realistically a problem? As long as its just two arguments, you can fit it on either side with ticks.
2021-05-17 09:15:44 +0200 <dminuoso> i.e. filter (`inRange` (1,3))
2021-05-17 09:16:41 +0200 <Putonlalla> Not in this case, but you usually want `x / y` to be `div y x`, `x == y` to be `eqb y x` and so on...
2021-05-17 09:16:55 +0200ericsagn1(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:e36f:f64f:f933:dd5f) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-05-17 09:17:44 +0200 <Putonlalla> That and some other unfortunate parts of the syntax is why we have functions like `subtract`.
2021-05-17 09:18:47 +0200mayleesiamaylee
2021-05-17 09:19:58 +0200 <Putonlalla> This problem is compounded in proof assistants, where functions that are structurally recursive on the first parameter only reduce when the head of that particular argument is a constructor. If you violate the "more constant argument first" convention, unfolding becomes much more tedious.
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2021-05-17 10:49:42 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-17 10:50:06 +0200Schrostfutz(~Schrostfu@schettlerdck.tkn.tu-berlin.de)
2021-05-17 10:55:28 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 10:59:59 +0200aVikingTrex(~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:00:52 +0200viluon(uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdmcjlqqmfcybklj)
2021-05-17 11:02:34 +0200rootmolloch(~lokitrall@2a02:3038:406:61a7:a13b:9b98:12ef:11db)
2021-05-17 11:03:10 +0200 <rootmolloch> bellman : let l = lambda in lambda = foldr (l) [+,-,*,/]
2021-05-17 11:03:26 +0200 <rootmolloch> :-)
2021-05-17 11:04:10 +0200 <Axman6> o.O
2021-05-17 11:07:00 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 11:07:22 +0200 <rootmolloch> http://whats-the-while.de.cool
2021-05-17 11:07:27 +0200nigel_c(~nigel_c@37.120.211.190) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 11:07:29 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:07:29 +0200 <rootmolloch> ??
2021-05-17 11:07:48 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49)
2021-05-17 11:09:39 +0200 <[exa]> phishy.
2021-05-17 11:09:49 +0200 <Axman6> agreed
2021-05-17 11:09:55 +0200 <Axman6> @where ops
2021-05-17 11:09:55 +0200 <lambdabot> byorgey Cale conal copumpkin dcoutts dibblego dolio edwardk geekosaur glguy jmcarthur johnw mniip monochrom quicksilver shachaf shapr ski
2021-05-17 11:10:09 +0200ChanServ+o dcoutts
2021-05-17 11:11:06 +0200biglama(b0a5a711@gateway/web/thelounge/ip.176.165.167.17)
2021-05-17 11:11:46 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a00ac2f91280bdd769f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 11:11:56 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:12:37 +0200ChanServ-o dcoutts
2021-05-17 11:14:28 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:e4fe:87c8:c43b:fc90)
2021-05-17 11:15:39 +0200biglama(b0a5a711@gateway/web/thelounge/ip.176.165.167.17) (Client Quit)
2021-05-17 11:16:04 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 11:16:38 +0200Lycurguswundert wenn er Richard meint
2021-05-17 11:17:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Axman6: Who knows, or they used a proper shadyurl tool.
2021-05-17 11:17:30 +0200 <dminuoso> Imagine, when people asking about monad and you just give them http://www.5z8.info/blackmarket_a1r3qh_stalin
2021-05-17 11:17:42 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@156.59.147.147.dyn.plus.net)
2021-05-17 11:17:53 +0200sz0(uid110435@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fpfeimeqtceiorln)
2021-05-17 11:18:08 +0200 <Axman6> I should use shadyurl more often
2021-05-17 11:18:44 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:e4fe:87c8:c43b:fc90) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:18:53 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.244.151)
2021-05-17 11:27:15 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-17 11:27:40 +0200 <biglama> Hi guys, is there a way to convert an ascii code stored in a Data.Text to the corresponding Data.Text, without using Char as an intermediary ?
2021-05-17 11:27:58 +0200 <biglama> My current solution : T.pack [toEnum (read "65") :: Char]
2021-05-17 11:28:24 +0200 <dminuoso> biglama: Any particular reason you dislike the Char as intermediary?
2021-05-17 11:29:25 +0200Johann_Petrak(~johann@2a02:8388:2740:3d00:841b:6448:2f3e:281f)
2021-05-17 11:29:28 +0200 <biglama> dminuoso: I wanted a shorter code :p
2021-05-17 11:29:41 +0200 <wrunt> biglama: maybe use Data.Text.singleton to go from Char -> Text?
2021-05-17 11:30:00 +0200 <wrunt> (still uses Char though)
2021-05-17 11:30:00 +0200 <merijn> That's now what he's doing
2021-05-17 11:30:04 +0200 <Axman6> @src Char
2021-05-17 11:30:04 +0200 <lambdabot> data Char = C# Char#
2021-05-17 11:30:11 +0200 <Axman6> Use Char# =)
2021-05-17 11:30:31 +0200 <merijn> that doesn't work
2021-05-17 11:30:46 +0200 <merijn> Pretty sure you can't read Char#
2021-05-17 11:31:39 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:31:52 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@178.197.228.14)
2021-05-17 11:32:54 +0200 <biglama> I wanted to do ascii conversion in pure Data.Text but it does not seem possible :(
2021-05-17 11:33:14 +0200 <dminuoso> biglama: sure it is, just tap into the internals of text..
2021-05-17 11:34:33 +0200 <dminuoso> Look at the implementation of `singleton`
2021-05-17 11:35:18 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-17 11:35:25 +0200 <Axman6> There's not going to be much you can do that isn't essentially doing exactly what toEnum . read does though
2021-05-17 11:36:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Though.. the more I look at text, you'll have to go through `Char`, unless you want to break it up internally so far that you're meddling with the internal MutableByteArray's.
2021-05-17 11:36:54 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@178.197.228.14) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:37:12 +0200 <dminuoso> At some point you should ask yourself whether that's really worth saving that single roundtrip through Char
2021-05-17 11:37:27 +0200 <biglama> There is an `ord2` function it Data.Text.Internal.Encoding.Utf8 but it says "Use at your own risk!"
2021-05-17 11:37:50 +0200 <biglama> dminuoso: That's not super important, I was just curious. Thanks :)
2021-05-17 11:38:04 +0200 <dminuoso> biglama: The key function to look at is: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-1.2.4.1/docs/src/Data.Text.Internal.Unsafe.Char.html#unsa…
2021-05-17 11:38:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Essentially you'd have to adapt this to work without a Char
2021-05-17 11:38:24 +0200 <dminuoso> (unsafeWrite)
2021-05-17 11:40:11 +0200 <biglama> Looks complicated :/
2021-05-17 11:40:26 +0200Schrostfutz(~Schrostfu@schettlerdck.tkn.tu-berlin.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-17 11:40:52 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.35)
2021-05-17 11:40:56 +0200boxscape(54a350dc@p54a350dc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-05-17 11:42:14 +0200 <biglama> Another question : since Data.Text implements Read, why can't I do :
2021-05-17 11:42:14 +0200 <biglama> read (T.pack "66") :: Int
2021-05-17 11:42:29 +0200 <dminuoso> % :t read
2021-05-17 11:42:29 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: Read a => String -> a
2021-05-17 11:42:46 +0200 <dminuoso> biglama: You're thinking of `Read` the wrong way
2021-05-17 11:43:09 +0200 <dminuoso> The fact that Data.Text implements Read means, we can read a String as Text
2021-05-17 11:43:39 +0200 <biglama> Oh, I see. So can an Int be read to a Text ? I could not find anything on Hoogle
2021-05-17 11:43:47 +0200 <dminuoso> That is `show`
2021-05-17 11:43:50 +0200 <dminuoso> rather
2021-05-17 11:43:58 +0200 <dminuoso> And no, you have to roundtrip through String
2021-05-17 11:44:06 +0200 <dminuoso> this sort of accident is an unfortunate one
2021-05-17 11:44:19 +0200 <dminuoso> Several packages on hackage exist to provide read/show using text instead
2021-05-17 11:44:25 +0200 <biglama> Ok. I'm trying to use one type of string representation but it's hard to avoid String
2021-05-17 11:44:34 +0200 <dminuoso> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-show
2021-05-17 11:44:45 +0200 <dminuoso> biglama: Is this user-facing output?
2021-05-17 11:44:48 +0200 <dminuoso> Or just for debugging
2021-05-17 11:45:03 +0200 <biglama> Debugging. And a side project :p
2021-05-17 11:45:20 +0200 <dminuoso> there's several options
2021-05-17 11:45:26 +0200pera_(~pera_@94.0.111.239)
2021-05-17 11:45:26 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.35) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:45:29 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-05-17 11:45:40 +0200xwvvvvwx(xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-17 11:45:40 +0200 <dminuoso> As a quick drop-in solution, I usually write `showT = T.pack . show`, put it into some Utils module and use it
2021-05-17 11:46:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Other more elaborate options rely on using prettyprinter rather than text
2021-05-17 11:47:52 +0200xwvvvvwx(xwvvvvwx@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xwvvvvwx)
2021-05-17 11:49:29 +0200 <kuribas> biglama: for debugging you shouldn't care
2021-05-17 11:49:37 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@lfbn-idf2-1-1523-141.w92-169.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-05-17 11:49:52 +0200 <biglama> dminuoso: The concept of prettyprinter is interesting
2021-05-17 11:50:24 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 11:54:03 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49)
2021-05-17 11:57:13 +0200 <biglama> Thanks a lot anyway !
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2021-05-17 12:49:56 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 12:51:53 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-17 12:52:09 +0200 <tdammers> IME, you usually want an application-specific notion of "stringification" anyway; `show` is really only appropriate for trace debugging IMO
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2021-05-17 13:01:30 +0200Benzi-Junior(~BenziJuni@88-149-64-251.du.xdsl.is)
2021-05-17 13:01:39 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-05-17 13:02:56 +0200hyiltiz-M(hyiltizkde@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-owzkkkzddiktgsbs)
2021-05-17 13:03:10 +0200zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-05-17 13:04:25 +0200xenon-(~bc817c21@217.29.117.252)
2021-05-17 13:04:29 +0200anandprabhu-M(anandprabh@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-nrjhpucozlnoitze)
2021-05-17 13:05:08 +0200 <xenon-> dminuoso how do they do it, they just convert String to Text? or they create new typeclasses
2021-05-17 13:08:08 +0200 <boxscape> is there a version of error that takes an instance of Show instead of a String?
2021-05-17 13:08:45 +0200 <xenon-> I don't think so
2021-05-17 13:08:48 +0200 <boxscape> ok
2021-05-17 13:08:53 +0200 <xenon-> @hoogle Show a => a -> b
2021-05-17 13:08:54 +0200 <lambdabot> Protolude show :: (Show a, ConvertText String b) => a -> b
2021-05-17 13:08:54 +0200 <lambdabot> SPARC.Base largeOffsetError :: Show a => a -> b
2021-05-17 13:08:54 +0200 <lambdabot> Intro show :: (Show a, ConvertString String s) => a -> s
2021-05-17 13:09:21 +0200 <xenon-> @hoogle String -> a
2021-05-17 13:09:22 +0200 <lambdabot> Text.Printf perror :: String -> a
2021-05-17 13:09:22 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Enum succError :: String -> a
2021-05-17 13:09:22 +0200 <lambdabot> GHC.Enum predError :: String -> a
2021-05-17 13:09:29 +0200davros(~davros@host86-185-126-190.range86-185.btcentralplus.com)
2021-05-17 13:09:49 +0200 <SoF> % Text.Printf "test"
2021-05-17 13:09:49 +0200 <yahb> SoF: ; <interactive>:113:1: error:; Not in scope: data constructor `Text.Printf'; No module named `Text' is imported.
2021-05-17 13:10:25 +0200 <boxscape> % Data.Text.Printf "test"
2021-05-17 13:10:26 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:114:1: error:; Not in scope: data constructor `Data.Text.Printf'; No module named `Data.Text' is imported.
2021-05-17 13:10:40 +0200 <boxscape> % Data.Text.Printf.perror "test"
2021-05-17 13:10:40 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:115:1: error:; Not in scope: `Data.Text.Printf.perror'; Perhaps you meant `Text.Printf.perror' (imported from Text.Printf); No module named `Data.Text.Printf' is imported.
2021-05-17 13:10:42 +0200 <boxscape> meh
2021-05-17 13:10:47 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::5d55)
2021-05-17 13:10:48 +0200pmj(~pmj@p4fe156fa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 13:10:51 +0200 <boxscape> I guess that is what I meant
2021-05-17 13:11:36 +0200 <dminuoso> xenon-: you mean prettyprinter?
2021-05-17 13:13:41 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-140-49.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 13:14:11 +0200Alleria(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org)
2021-05-17 13:14:36 +0200AlleriaGuest35141
2021-05-17 13:15:41 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 13:15:50 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:44b9:dfd8:3ef5:78e4)
2021-05-17 13:16:01 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 13:18:29 +0200 <xenon-> dminuoso, Read/Show that works with Text
2021-05-17 13:20:01 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:44b9:dfd8:3ef5:78e4) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-17 13:22:41 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 13:22:50 +0200 <dminuoso> xenon-: for one direction, there's text-show
2021-05-17 13:23:47 +0200 <dminuoso> The other direction is, roughly, encapsulated by attoparsec
2021-05-17 13:24:31 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 13:27:58 +0200 <dminuoso> I guess ultimately its not the same thing
2021-05-17 13:28:29 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@83.143.246.105)
2021-05-17 13:28:30 +0200 <dminuoso> (and read in generally is a weird thing, if we look at the semantics of deriving generated instances - it doesnt seem that useful)
2021-05-17 13:28:38 +0200henninb(~henninb@63-226-190-31.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-05-17 13:28:45 +0200 <dminuoso> it's rather a poor mans serialization/deserialization format
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2021-05-17 16:11:35 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-05-17 16:14:54 +0200 <boxscape> I keep thinking the extension is called OverloadedRecordFields instead of DuplicateRecordFields
2021-05-17 16:15:10 +0200 <boxscape> Duplicate kind of seems to imply 2, maybe it should be n-plicateRecordFields
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2021-05-17 16:17:58 +0200 <Cale> RamifiedRecordFields, lol
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2021-05-17 16:24:19 +0200 <willardthor> Hi folks, can any of you help me understand an error that I am getting? (I am still learning) (If this is the wrong place to ask, then let me know, and I'll ask elsewhere). See https://paste.tomsmeding.com/emRl2ySZ . I've created a type class for "types with a default value". Its single operation is `def`, which yields said default value. However,
2021-05-17 16:24:19 +0200 <willardthor> when I use it when defining functions with a polymorphic type, GHCI cannot figure out which type `def` should be, and it won't let me coerce `def` to the (polymorphic) type that I want it to have. Any ideas?
2021-05-17 16:25:36 +0200xff0x(xff0x@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xff0x)
2021-05-17 16:25:53 +0200 <geekosaur> going through this in order, ghci assumes Integer because of defaulting
2021-05-17 16:25:53 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: What happens if you remove the annotation? Just write def and not def :: v?
2021-05-17 16:26:06 +0200 <Cale> The problem is that you're not using ScopedTypeVariables, I think
2021-05-17 16:26:25 +0200 <geekosaur> you'd also need an explicit forall in that case
2021-05-17 16:26:44 +0200 <geekosaur> basically the scope of v does not extend to the definition, only to the declaration
2021-05-17 16:26:48 +0200 <Cale> You can do so by adding {-# LANGUAGE ScopedTypeVariables #-} to the top of your file, and adding a forall like thedef :: forall v. Def v => v
2021-05-17 16:27:07 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@206.186.171.254) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:27:09 +0200 <Cale> and then you'll be able to use v to refer to the actual type that v was bound to, in the definition of thedef
2021-05-17 16:27:30 +0200 <Cale> Without that extension, type variables only scope over a single type signature
2021-05-17 16:27:48 +0200 <boxscape> stupid question: Is there a (possibly hacky) way to call local bindings of a function in ghci?
2021-05-17 16:27:54 +0200 <Cale> So when you say def :: v GHC has no way of knowing that it's the same v
2021-05-17 16:28:03 +0200 <Cale> boxscape: nope
2021-05-17 16:28:04 +0200 <geekosaur> boxscape, no
2021-05-17 16:28:06 +0200 <boxscape> okay
2021-05-17 16:28:20 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-05-17 16:28:21 +0200 <Cale> Well, maybe *really* hacky
2021-05-17 16:28:44 +0200 <Cale> If you happened to know where GHC put them in memory (and they hadn't been inlined)
2021-05-17 16:28:49 +0200UTENTE(~Username@176.32.27.9)
2021-05-17 16:28:54 +0200alexander(~alexander@athedsl-351794.home.otenet.gr)
2021-05-17 16:28:56 +0200 <boxscape> heh okay that sounds fragile
2021-05-17 16:28:59 +0200 <Cale> But that's not going to be easy at all
2021-05-17 16:29:02 +0200 <Cale> yeah
2021-05-17 16:29:23 +0200alexanderGuest77094
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2021-05-17 16:29:50 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-05-17 16:32:02 +0200 <willardthor> Thank you for the responses so far. @Cale What happens if you remove the annotation? : As evidenced by `Example0.hs` vs. `Example1.hs`, removing the `:: v` produces a type error. @Cale You're not using ScopedTypeVariables : I'll look into this; thanks for the tip!
2021-05-17 16:34:13 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:34:25 +0200 <boxscape> does the star in `:m *<modulename>` simply mean that non-exported bindings can be used or does it also mean that the module is forced to be loaded interpreted instead of compiled?
2021-05-17 16:34:28 +0200 <boxscape> (in ghci)
2021-05-17 16:35:06 +0200 <willardthor> geekosaur "The scope of v does not extend to the definition, only to the declaration" : Can you clarify? Is the fact that I coerced at the right-hand-side of '=' not taken into account when typing the whole function definition?
2021-05-17 16:35:36 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: oh, I see, yeah, you didn't have the type error in Example0.hs
2021-05-17 16:35:48 +0200 <Cale> It seems like removing it fixes the problem?
2021-05-17 16:36:07 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: It's just that it's not the same v
2021-05-17 16:36:20 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: So it's as though you'd written thedef :: w there
2021-05-17 16:36:44 +0200 <Cale> and then GHC doesn't know that w is supposed to be equal to the v from the type signature for the function
2021-05-17 16:37:09 +0200 <Cale> (or definition, rather)
2021-05-17 16:37:27 +0200 <boxscape> % :m + *Data.Monoid
2021-05-17 16:37:27 +0200 <yahb> boxscape: module 'Data.Monoid' is from another package;; this command requires an interpreted module
2021-05-17 16:37:33 +0200 <boxscape> I suppose that answers my question
2021-05-17 16:37:38 +0200 <willardthor> Cale "Removing it fixes the problem": Yeah, but I kind of need it later :-P  (Unless there's another way to do what I am trying to, of course). I'm writing a polymorphic function, where the only thing I know about the input type, is that it's a member of `Def` . I would then like to obtain the default value of the input type, in the function
2021-05-17 16:37:39 +0200 <willardthor> body.
2021-05-17 16:38:01 +0200nyd(~nyd@unaffiliated/elysian) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:38:33 +0200 <willardthor> Cale "It's just that it's not the same v" : That's what GHCI is saying, and that's what I'm not getting. Why is it not the same, or how do I make clear that it's the same?
2021-05-17 16:38:49 +0200 <geekosaur> you use ScopedTypeZVZariables
2021-05-17 16:38:51 +0200 <geekosaur> er
2021-05-17 16:38:58 +0200 <geekosaur> you use ScopedTypeVariables
2021-05-17 16:39:01 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: Without turning on extensions, type variables never scope over anything larger than a single type signature
2021-05-17 16:39:36 +0200nyd(nyd@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/elysian)
2021-05-17 16:40:48 +0200 <Cale> So yeah, you have to turn on ScopedTypeVariables if you want to be able to refer to the same v
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2021-05-17 16:41:11 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.177.199) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:41:13 +0200 <Cale> I don't think there's another way, apart from doing trickery that would complicate the type of def
2021-05-17 16:41:35 +0200 <willardthor> Cale geekosaur I just tried turning on `ScopedTypeVariables` (adding `{-# LANGUAGE ScopedTypeVariables #-}` to the start of `Example1.hs` and `Example2.hs` ), without success; the same errors get reported.
2021-05-17 16:42:06 +0200 <Cale> Yep, to use ScopedTypeVariables, you have to explicitly bind the variables using forall
2021-05-17 16:42:18 +0200 <willardthor> ... ah. Let me do that real quick.
2021-05-17 16:42:50 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:535b:1600:c038:9b40:2a0a:496d)
2021-05-17 16:46:21 +0200 <willardthor> Cale geekosaur I added `forall v .` at the start of the type declaration of `thedef` . This fixes the problem in `Example1.hs` . I did the same in `Example2.hs` , yet the problem remains there.
2021-05-17 16:47:17 +0200 <Cale> Did you also add a signature to clarify the type of the usage of def?
2021-05-17 16:47:24 +0200 <willardthor> waitwait, I then coerced the `def` and /that/ worked
2021-05-17 16:47:29 +0200 <Cale> yep
2021-05-17 16:47:31 +0200parabolize(~paraboliz@98.43.173.221)
2021-05-17 16:47:34 +0200 <willardthor> :-)  Thanks guys
2021-05-17 16:47:38 +0200romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-05-17 16:47:41 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:48:29 +0200 <romesrf> hey everyone, if I do a StateT Maybe monad, and return (Element) normally, how can I lift the StateT to return Nothing instead of a Just something ?
2021-05-17 16:49:21 +0200 <[exa]> romesrf: how did the Maybe get there?
2021-05-17 16:49:30 +0200 <[exa]> ah sorry I can't read
2021-05-17 16:49:43 +0200 <romesrf> perhaps i should make a small example, but i thought it might be a common issue
2021-05-17 16:50:01 +0200 <[exa]> for returning nothing I'd just try failing, e.g. with `empty`
2021-05-17 16:50:01 +0200 <romesrf> some function has type Something -> StateT SomeState Maybe Something
2021-05-17 16:50:13 +0200 <[exa]> (possibly: lift empty)
2021-05-17 16:50:19 +0200 <romesrf> Oh! Okay, i'll try that.
2021-05-17 16:50:37 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9554e88f3d58cc93ff66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-05-17 16:51:08 +0200 <[exa]> :t lift empty
2021-05-17 16:51:09 +0200 <lambdabot> (MonadTrans t, Monad m, Alternative m) => t m a
2021-05-17 16:51:47 +0200 <[exa]> looks okay to me with t~StateT, m~Maybe
2021-05-17 16:52:23 +0200 <Cale> empty or mempty on its own ought to be fine
2021-05-17 16:52:32 +0200 <Cale> er
2021-05-17 16:52:39 +0200 <[exa]> can StateT carry that?
2021-05-17 16:52:45 +0200 <Cale> Actually, not sure about mempty, I mean mzero
2021-05-17 16:53:00 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-05-17 16:53:13 +0200 <[exa]> ah cool it has MonadFail
2021-05-17 16:53:51 +0200 <Cale> Oh yeah, you could also use fail I suppose
2021-05-17 16:54:52 +0200 <romesrf> i think just empty might work. at least the type system is fine with it ;)
2021-05-17 16:55:04 +0200 <romesrf> i'll let you know soon. ty
2021-05-17 16:55:35 +0200[exa]stares at the Alternative (StateT s m) marked [safe], cool
2021-05-17 16:56:33 +0200Guest35141(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 16:56:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-05-17 16:57:10 +0200 <willardthor> Cale geekosaur (so that I learn from this) : How come `ScopedTypeVariables` is needed? I thought that this was the default behavior in Haskell. That is: That a polymorphic function's type declaration (e.g. type of `thedef` ) binds all occurrences of polymorphic types (e.g. `v` ) that it mentions, such that any occurrence of those bound types (e.g.
2021-05-17 16:57:10 +0200 <willardthor> `v` ) within the body of the function definition, refers to that binder (unless bound more locally). (It's reasonable of GHCI to consider that `v` could be bound to something else more locally; it's dumb that it can't see that it isn't)
2021-05-17 16:57:11 +0200Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-05-17 16:57:15 +0200 <[exa]> noticing many more instances have [safe] now, I should probably upgrade ghc much more often. :D
2021-05-17 16:57:25 +0200cohn(~noone@unaffiliated/cohn) ()
2021-05-17 16:57:35 +0200AlleriaGuest1564
2021-05-17 16:58:07 +0200 <Cale> Nope, that's just not how it works. Type variables are only meaningful in the single type that's using them and don't carry over into other type signatures
2021-05-17 16:58:24 +0200 <geekosaur> it's not the default behavior but enough people expect it that the ScopedTypeVariables extension was created
2021-05-17 16:59:41 +0200 <Cale> Though what might be nicer than ScopedTypeVariables is being able to explicitly bind the applied type variables at the term level. Eventually that'll probably be a feature of TypeApplications, but it doesn't yet work
2021-05-17 17:00:41 +0200 <Cale> e.g. to be able to write prettydef @t v = pretty v <+> pretty (def @t)
2021-05-17 17:00:46 +0200 <willardthor> Cale "Only meaningful": I see; and the coercion is then a separate type signature (where an occurrence e.g. to `v` is considered a different/fresh `v` ).
2021-05-17 17:01:02 +0200 <Cale> yeah
2021-05-17 17:01:22 +0200 <Cale> So it's exactly the same as if you'd written any other variable name there
2021-05-17 17:01:22 +0200 <willardthor> geekosaur This is now one of my new favorite extensions:)
2021-05-17 17:02:04 +0200qwerty2o(~qwerty2o@46-116-99-209.bb.netvision.net.il)
2021-05-17 17:03:05 +0200 <qwerty2o> hi im trying to creat a splitOn function
2021-05-17 17:03:10 +0200 <qwerty2o> i got this so far
2021-05-17 17:03:11 +0200 <qwerty2o> https://dpaste.org/ezmS#L1,3
2021-05-17 17:03:26 +0200 <qwerty2o> but now i want to split by two or more delimiters
2021-05-17 17:03:42 +0200 <qwerty2o> is there an option to give break a second delimiter?
2021-05-17 17:03:50 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.217)
2021-05-17 17:03:55 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@2a01cb0407597a009cf9697881694994.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-05-17 17:03:59 +0200 <qwerty2o> like break (== del1 || == del2)
2021-05-17 17:04:02 +0200 <qwerty2o> something like that
2021-05-17 17:04:29 +0200 <qwerty2o> or if i could go by a list or delimiters that'd be even better
2021-05-17 17:04:38 +0200 <willardthor> Cale `TypeApplications` : nice, that would bring Haskell even closer to dependently-typed programming.
2021-05-17 17:05:11 +0200 <Cale> qwerty2o: (\x -> x == del1 || x == del2) or (\x -> x `elem` [del1, del2]) or (`elem` [del1, del2])
2021-05-17 17:05:39 +0200 <Cale> willardthor: Yeah, to be clear, TypeApplications exists, just there's no pattern matching bit
2021-05-17 17:05:53 +0200 <Cale> So you still need to use ScopedTypeVariables with it usually
2021-05-17 17:06:03 +0200 <willardthor> Cale gotcha (y)
2021-05-17 17:07:06 +0200 <qwerty2o> Cale, thank you sir
2021-05-17 17:07:15 +0200 <qwerty2o> didnt think about elem lol
2021-05-17 17:08:56 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.217) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-05-17 17:09:08 +0200fendor_(~fendor@213142096253.public.telering.at)
2021-05-17 17:09:18 +0200 <[exa]> qwerty2o: overly applicative solution: `liftA2 (||) (==del1) (==del2)`
2021-05-17 17:10:05 +0200 <qwerty2o> thats nice but i actually need a string of delimiters
2021-05-17 17:10:17 +0200wallymathieu(~wallymath@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-05-17 17:10:21 +0200 <qwerty2o> so the (`elem` delims was the solution)
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2021-05-17 17:23:05 +0200willardthor(d4ed87cf@c-xd4ed87cf.cust.hiper.dk) ()
2021-05-17 17:24:10 +0200 <romesrf> it worked [exa] ty :)
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2021-05-17 17:37:39 +0200 <boxscape> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/424
2021-05-17 17:37:43 +0200ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-05-17 17:37:52 +0200 <boxscape> thinking about calling local bindings from ghci
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2021-05-17 17:38:28 +0200 <merijn> How does that work when they use captures
2021-05-17 17:39:19 +0200 <boxscape> merijn One could imagine only allowing bindings without free variables. Though I can imagine captures working as well, see second-to-last point in the link
2021-05-17 17:40:33 +0200proofofkeags(~proofofke@205.209.28.54)
2021-05-17 17:41:46 +0200 <geekosaur> don't wheres desugar to lets? that would complicate distinguishing the two
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2021-05-17 17:41:59 +0200 <boxscape> hmm, interesting point
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2021-05-17 20:20:54 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> c
2021-05-17 20:21:01 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> s/c//
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2021-05-17 20:58:31 +0200 <cdsmith> I've thought about similar things in the past. My thoughts were more ambitious: I wanted to be able to select an arbitrary subexpression anywhere in a file and get its value. And I wanted to turn captured variables into implicit lambdas. I've tried to advocate for something like this using a GHC plugin in the past. It's been mostly dismissed by anyone I discussed it with.
2021-05-17 20:58:32 +0200chris__(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-05-17 20:59:29 +0200 <geekosaur> tbh it sounds more like the province of haskell-language-server these days
2021-05-17 20:59:30 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-05-17 21:00:00 +0200 <geekosaur> having ghc do it would be conflating compile time with run time
2021-05-17 21:00:07 +0200 <cdsmith> Yeah, it would definitely fit in well there. I was looking for it for CodeWorld, which is another Haskell development environment
2021-05-17 21:00:17 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.59) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-05-17 21:00:57 +0200 <cdsmith> I'm not sure HLS could do something like that without some help from GHC
2021-05-17 21:01:48 +0200 <geekosaur> hm. I think the emacs mode can already send an arbitrary selected expression to an inferior ghci to be evaluated, with some limitations
2021-05-17 21:02:19 +0200chris__(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 21:03:00 +0200chris__(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-05-17 21:03:03 +0200 <cdsmith> Ah, yes. There's a subtle difference, though, between "what does the text of this selection evaluate to as a top-level expression?" and "what does this subexpression evaluate to in context?" The first is a rather rough approximation of the second
2021-05-17 21:04:18 +0200Jesin(~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-05-17 21:05:35 +0200gekh(~gkh@thor.kevinhill.nl)
2021-05-17 21:05:58 +0200 <cdsmith> This discussion about accessing let-bound definitions is a perfect example of the limitations of the first approach by itself
2021-05-17 21:07:11 +0200 <dolio> Some subexpressions aren't going to have any well defined value according to the normal mode of evaluation that GHC/Haskell uses.
2021-05-17 21:07:11 +0200chris__(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 21:07:39 +0200nyd(~nyd@unaffiliated/elysian) (Quit: nyd)
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2021-05-17 21:09:33 +0200 <cdsmith> dolio: I'm curious what you mean here. Example?
2021-05-17 21:10:20 +0200geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-05-17 21:11:50 +0200 <dolio> f x = ... where y = 2 + 3 + x
2021-05-17 21:11:55 +0200_noblegas(uid91066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckbdfvkxrkaybdcu)
2021-05-17 21:12:12 +0200 <dolio> `2 + 3 + x` has no well defined value.
2021-05-17 21:12:25 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-05-17 21:12:27 +0200 <dolio> None of GHC's runtimes evaluate open terms.
2021-05-17 21:13:28 +0200Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:48ba:635:8684:1c7d)
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2021-05-17 21:14:15 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 21:14:20 +0200 <cdsmith> Sure. Free variables would need to be lifted into something like lambdas.
2021-05-17 21:15:27 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
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2021-05-17 22:09:53 +0200benin(~benin@183.82.177.199)
2021-05-17 22:12:05 +0200 <dminuoso> dolio: What is an open term? A term free variables?
2021-05-17 22:13:01 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@206.186.171.254) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 22:13:08 +0200 <dolio> Yes.
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2021-05-17 22:55:51 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 22:55:52 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-05-17 22:58:47 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@178.197.228.14) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 22:59:36 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.65.28)
2021-05-17 22:59:58 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@178.197.228.14)
2021-05-17 23:00:06 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:00:08 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-05-17 23:00:43 +0200moth1(~moth@37.120.211.190) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:01:30 +0200jao(~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:02:24 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-05-17 23:03:36 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:04:12 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b)
2021-05-17 23:04:35 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Quit: Caught exception)
2021-05-17 23:05:01 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-05-17 23:05:34 +0200usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
2021-05-17 23:06:56 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-05-17 23:07:18 +0200mikoto-chan(~mikoto-ch@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan)
2021-05-17 23:08:19 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d48:8adb:4f7a:141b) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:09:44 +0200falafel(~falafel@cpe-70-93-65-166.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-05-17 23:09:59 +0200sheepduck(~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a60:b700::7a37) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:10:37 +0200N4lt(~N4lt@modemcable159.116-21-96.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:12:04 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-05-17 23:15:12 +0200viluon(uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdmcjlqqmfcybklj) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-17 23:16:32 +0200biglama(~alex@static-176-165-167-17.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:17:04 +0200paultag1(~paultag@185.204.1.185)
2021-05-17 23:20:50 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-17 23:21:07 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com)
2021-05-17 23:23:36 +0200bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b80619af0038b023e60a9f8697.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-05-17 23:27:05 +0200bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b80619af0038b023e60a9f8697.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2021-05-17 23:28:06 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-05-17 23:29:08 +0200Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-05-17 23:29:46 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.127.105) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:31:52 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.191)
2021-05-17 23:33:38 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-05-17 23:34:32 +0200mounty(~mounty@236.216.214.218.sta.wbroadband.net.au)
2021-05-17 23:35:40 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:36:16 +0200ddellac__(~ddellacos@86.106.143.191) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:37:12 +0200aezarebski(~user@cpc121174-oxfd28-2-0-cust220.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-17 23:39:07 +0200ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55)
2021-05-17 23:39:19 +0200danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:40:39 +0200Jrdan(~Jrdan@modemcable159.116-21-96.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-05-17 23:43:45 +0200m_shiraeeshi(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.146) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:44:13 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-05-17 23:45:22 +0200_noblegas(uid91066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckbdfvkxrkaybdcu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-05-17 23:51:57 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-05-17 23:52:17 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-05-17 23:52:39 +0200seanparsons(~sean@cpc145088-gill21-2-0-cust281.20-1.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-05-17 23:53:23 +0200Qwerky(~qwerky@178.197.228.14) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:53:54 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.165.129.230.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:55:56 +0200seanparsons(~sean@cpc145088-gill21-2-0-cust281.20-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-05-17 23:56:07 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-05-17 23:59:27 +0200refried_(9a1d83d6@154.29.131.214)