| 2021-05-12 00:00:28 +0200 | Rudd0 | (~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) |
| 2021-05-12 00:01:43 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : "data type" here means a type whose values are constructed by data constructors |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:00 +0200 | <monochrom> | What you're seeing is that Functor is so general it is not just for "data" "structures". |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:15 +0200 | janne- | (~janne@punainen.org) |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:23 +0200 | <monochrom> | "data structures" is a social construct. |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:25 +0200 | <alphabeta1> | Is (->) not a data constructor that takes 2 types though? |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:26 +0200 | _janne | (~janne@punainen.org) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:40 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : a function still "holds" data (its potential outputs, for each potential input we could call it with), in a generalized sense |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | The terminology is "type constructor". |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:47 +0200 | <ski> | alphabeta1 : no |
| 2021-05-12 00:02:56 +0200 | <monochrom> | "data constructor" is for Left, Right, Just, Nothing. |
| 2021-05-12 00:03:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | "type constructor" is for Either, Maybe. |
| 2021-05-12 00:03:22 +0200 | <alphabeta1> | Ah! |
| 2021-05-12 00:03:28 +0200 | usr25 | (~J@41.red-83-58-207.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:03:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | For convenience in wording, we also accept Int as a type constructor. |
| 2021-05-12 00:03:36 +0200 | ski | again laments the common convention to name the type constructor the same as the data constructor, in case there's only one of the latter |
| 2021-05-12 00:04:32 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah I never do "data X = X Int" in front of me students. Only "data X = MkX Int". |
| 2021-05-12 00:04:34 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:04:45 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:05:05 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 00:05:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | "data X = X Int" is cute for professional programmers who understand it, but it sends the wrong message to students. |
| 2021-05-12 00:05:26 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 00:05:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | There are a few other legal things in the same genre. |
| 2021-05-12 00:06:00 +0200 | <hpc> | counterpoint: in java - class is Foo, constructor is new Foo() |
| 2021-05-12 00:06:10 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : may i remind you again of how values of type `(Int,Int)' hold the same information as values of type `Bool -> Int' (can you write two transformation functions between these two types, each undoing the other ?) ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:07:06 +0200 | <Ernest> | Int + Int == Bool * Int, something like that? |
| 2021-05-12 00:07:13 +0200 | <monochrom> | The #1 confusing thing is "x = do ..." and ending with "where ..." at column > 6. Sends the wrong message that the "where" is part of the "do". |
| 2021-05-12 00:07:20 +0200 | <Ernest> | Since bool is 2 |
| 2021-05-12 00:08:06 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : something like that conceptual equality, yes (although that was for `Either Int Int' vs. `(Bool,Int)', which is not quite the example what i was talking about) |
| 2021-05-12 00:08:37 +0200 | urdh | (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:08:59 +0200 | cr3 | (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:09:22 +0200 | <ski> | Int × Int = Int² |
| 2021-05-12 00:10:12 +0200 | urdh | (~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh) |
| 2021-05-12 00:10:20 +0200 | <Ernest> | Ah and function application is exponentation |
| 2021-05-12 00:10:47 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) |
| 2021-05-12 00:11:01 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : if you can think of `(Int,Int)' (or `Pair Int', where `data Pair a = Couple a a') as a container holding two `Int's, then you can also think of `Bool -> Int' as a "container" holding two `Int's |
| 2021-05-12 00:11:43 +0200 | <ski> | Ernest : no, the function arrow (`A -> B') is (converse) exponentiation (⌜Bᴬ⌝) |
| 2021-05-12 00:13:25 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | how about a newtype? naming the newtype the same as a data constructor |
| 2021-05-12 00:13:37 +0200 | <Ernest> | I encountered a little bit of the idea in Thinking with Types by Sandy Maguire, but I realised I shouldve gotten a bit more experience with the vanilla type system as the book goes into the different type extensions |
| 2021-05-12 00:13:38 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | it allows only one constructor |
| 2021-05-12 00:14:51 +0200 | vent | (~vent@185.62.190.213) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 00:14:59 +0200 | <monochrom> | The point, at least my point, is about misleading students to conflate types with terms, not about uniqueness vs non-uniqueness. |
| 2021-05-12 00:16:18 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | I add the "Data" suffix for data declarations |
| 2021-05-12 00:16:29 +0200 | <monochrom> | You need to run into 10 students in a row who do "I'm trying data X = Int | Char and newtype Y = Double, why are they not working?" to understand it. |
| 2021-05-12 00:16:31 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | like data SomethingData = X | Y |
| 2021-05-12 00:16:54 +0200 | <ski> | m_shiraeeshi : i object as much to it, for `newtype's, yes |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:02 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:12 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:29 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:30 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:38 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | but the "NewType" suffix seems too long |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:41 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:42 +0200 | <ski> | (and for similar reasons i also object to the notation for tuple types) |
| 2021-05-12 00:17:47 +0200 | <Ernest> | If you want some more feedback from a student: I didn't have an understanding of the prescedence of things clearly enough for a long time which made learning much more complex |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:11 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh this is why the consensus is "if you want to do it monochrom's way, use the Mk prefix". |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:12 +0200 | <ski> | newtype State s a = MkState {runState :: s -> (s,a)} -- what i'd prefer |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:20 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:25 +0200 | <alphabeta1> | Oh yeah, Mk is what I learnt at uni too |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:38 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:38 +0200 | <alphabeta1> | used to read it as mukk but it turned out it was short for Make |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:39 +0200 | <monochrom> | I would really love the Of suffix, but it didn't take off. |
| 2021-05-12 00:18:49 +0200 | <ski> | if you can thing of an appropriate different name for the data constructor, you can use that. you don't need to use `Mk..' (or `..Of') |
| 2021-05-12 00:19:11 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh, "data X = MuckingWithX Int" is a fine reading too. |
| 2021-05-12 00:19:33 +0200 | <alphabeta1> | Hahaha monochrom, that made me laugh. |
| 2021-05-12 00:19:38 +0200 | <ski> | m_shiraeeshi : "I add the \"Data\" suffix for data declarations" -- how do you mean ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:19:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | Since in pattern matching it becomes "f (I'm mucking with X i) = i+1" is exactly what you're doing >:) |
| 2021-05-12 00:19:56 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | ski: data SomethingData = X | Y |
| 2021-05-12 00:20:30 +0200 | <ski> | m_shiraeeshi : that seems like a case of hungarian (in the bad sense) |
| 2021-05-12 00:20:33 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ("WeeChat 3.0.1") |
| 2021-05-12 00:21:06 +0200 | <ski> | (note me saying `data Pair a = Couple a a' rather than `data Pair a = MkPair a a' above) |
| 2021-05-12 00:21:12 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 00:22:11 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:22:15 +0200 | shane | (~shane@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:22:30 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | ski: no, I add it when I need to distinguish the type constructor from the data constructor when I have single data constructor in the declaration |
| 2021-05-12 00:22:32 +0200 | <ski> | newtype SortedList a = PromiseSorted [a] -- when the type is intended to model a subset of the representation type |
| 2021-05-12 00:22:49 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | idk, Mk prefix seems ugly to me |
| 2021-05-12 00:23:09 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | and I use data constructors more often then type constructors |
| 2021-05-12 00:23:33 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so I figured they should be short and concise |
| 2021-05-12 00:23:40 +0200 | vicfred | (vicfred@gateway/vpn/mullvad/vicfred) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 00:24:03 +0200 | <monochrom> | I think "Data" is too long. Also not future-proof. What if one day you s/data/newtype/ ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:24:16 +0200 | smerdyakov6 | (~dan@5.146.195.164) |
| 2021-05-12 00:24:38 +0200 | elfets | (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 2021-05-12 00:25:14 +0200 | Tesseraction | (~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 00:25:42 +0200 | Tesseraction | (~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) |
| 2021-05-12 00:25:46 +0200 | smerdyakov | (~dan@5.146.195.164) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:25:47 +0200 | smerdyakov6 | smerdyakov |
| 2021-05-12 00:25:47 +0200 | <ski> | newtype UnorderedPair a = Unorder {nondeterministicPeekOrdered :: (a,a)} -- one can imagine hopefully suggestive naming to be used when modelling factor/quotient types, as well |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | Perhaps consider "data X = X_ {_x :: Int}" and let it all degenerate into morse code... |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:11 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | do people move from data to newtypes? what could be the reason to do that? optimisation? |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:24 +0200 | <ski> | m_shiraeeshi : i'd rather add `Data' to the data constructor, than the type constructor, in that case |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:35 +0200 | <ski> | m_shiraeeshi : change of internal representation ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:37 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | hm, underscore could work |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:42 +0200 | <Ernest> | What about having the data constructor be lowercased, so just as a function which it is |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:47 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:58 +0200 | <ski> | (e.g. between deep and shallow embedding) |
| 2021-05-12 00:26:59 +0200 | <monochrom> | Too late for that, Haskell requires capitalized. |
| 2021-05-12 00:27:32 +0200 | shane | (~shane@desk.roadwar.net) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com") |
| 2021-05-12 00:27:36 +0200 | <geekosaur> | think about pattern matches, they need some way to distinguish constructors (structure) from variables (values) |
| 2021-05-12 00:27:38 +0200 | shane | (~shane@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:28:18 +0200 | <geekosaur> | case may not be the best way but it's the one the developers of Haskell came up with |
| 2021-05-12 00:28:37 +0200 | <Ernest> | Oh yeah |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:06 +0200 | shane | (~shane@desk.roadwar.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:07 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:25 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:35 +0200 | <ski> | newtype Coyoneda f b = forall a. FmapIncl (a -> b) (f a) -- `FmapIncl f c = fmap f (incl c)' where `incl :: f a -> Coyoneda f a; incl = FmapIncl id' |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:36 +0200 | <Ernest> | I heard some negative opinions about pattern matching and that it was a mistake, but I didn't understand the reason why they said it was a mistake |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:45 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 00:29:59 +0200 | <ski> | mistake, in which sense ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:03 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:24 +0200 | <Ernest> | Sounded like they were saying it should've not been invented or something |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:35 +0200 | <monochrom> | Never heard of that. |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:37 +0200 | <Ernest> | I'll try to find where I heard it, it was from a talk |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:43 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) |
| 2021-05-12 00:30:43 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 00:31:20 +0200 | <Cale> | Sounds like a poor opinion to me |
| 2021-05-12 00:31:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 00:32:10 +0200 | <ski> | perhaps they were talking about some particular aspect of, or particular design choice, in the design of pattern-matching in Haskell |
| 2021-05-12 00:32:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | https://xkcd.com/386/ applies |
| 2021-05-12 00:32:24 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Hey guys! I'm getting some type errors trying to implement the phantom types from "Fun With Type Functions" |
| 2021-05-12 00:32:49 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:33:31 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-05-12 00:33:33 +0200 | <Cale> | I can imagine that some people don't like the multiple-equations style of defining functions, and would prefer to express pattern matching using case (I use that style myself for the most part) |
| 2021-05-12 00:33:57 +0200 | <monochrom> | Also https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/mind-3 |
| 2021-05-12 00:33:58 +0200 | <Ernest> | https://youtu.be/TVJa-V6U-XI?t=1215 |
| 2021-05-12 00:34:11 +0200 | <ski> | but if it's really about pattern-matching (on disjoint/discriminated/tagged union / algebraic data / sum / variant types / variant record types), then i would disagree |
| 2021-05-12 00:34:40 +0200 | elfets | (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:35:42 +0200 | <monochrom> | I won't take time to listen to or comment on Nolen's talk. |
| 2021-05-12 00:35:43 +0200 | <ski> | oh, its interaction with abstract data types. i think pattern synonyms (and view patterns) is the answer here |
| 2021-05-12 00:36:12 +0200 | thc202 | (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:36:16 +0200 | <monochrom> | But Wadler's "views" still requires pattern matching, just not on internal unexported data constructors. |
| 2021-05-12 00:36:21 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:36:36 +0200 | <ski> | (it would be nice if one could export `data Foo = Blah .. | Bleh ..', but internally define `Blah' and `Bleh' as pattern synonyms, having represented `Foo' in a different way) |
| 2021-05-12 00:37:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | As usual, "some people misunderstand X and abuse it" is conflated with "X should not have been invented". |
| 2021-05-12 00:37:33 +0200 | <ski> | (also the "active patterns" of F# <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fsharp/language-reference/active-patterns> are relevant here) |
| 2021-05-12 00:39:04 +0200 | dpl__ | (~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 00:39:06 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@cpe-69-133-55-43.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 00:39:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | Hey let me go meta with "some people misunderstand and misuse 'should not have been invented'" >:) |
| 2021-05-12 00:39:30 +0200 | chimera | (~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 00:39:46 +0200 | jluttine | (~jluttine@85-23-66-6.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:40:15 +0200 | jluttine | (~jluttine@85-23-66-6.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2021-05-12 00:40:18 +0200 | chimera | (~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:40:23 +0200 | coot | (~coot@37.30.58.122.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot) |
| 2021-05-12 00:40:55 +0200 | <Ernest> | Well I wouldn't have dug further in my misunderstanding unprovoked hehe |
| 2021-05-12 00:41:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/crossroad.xhtml explains why pattern matching is more natural. Frankly my perspective is I don't understand why it took so long to invent. I mean it's a natural logical conclusion of natural deduction which is 100 years old. |
| 2021-05-12 00:42:13 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 00:43:58 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:44:46 +0200 | usr25 | (~J@41.red-83-58-207.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Bye) |
| 2021-05-12 00:46:24 +0200 | <ski> | @type \(Seq.viewl -> (a Seq.:< as)) -> (a,as) |
| 2021-05-12 00:46:25 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Seq.Seq a -> (a, Seq.Seq a) |
| 2021-05-12 00:46:38 +0200 | <ski> | @type (\(a :< as) -> (a,as)) :: Seq.Seq a -> (a,Seq.Seq a) |
| 2021-05-12 00:46:39 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Seq.Seq a -> (a, Seq.Seq a) |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:14 +0200 | <ski> | "pattern-matching on concrete data types is a horrible idea","you're matching concrete types, not abstractions" |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:43 +0200 | <ski> | @type Seq.viewl |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:44 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Seq.Seq a -> Seq.ViewL a |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:46 +0200 | <ski> | @type (Seq.:<) |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:47 +0200 | <lambdabot> | a -> Seq.Seq a -> Seq.ViewL a |
| 2021-05-12 00:48:59 +0200 | <ski> | is `ViewL' a concrete type, or an abstraction ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:49:22 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah that's blaming the wrong guy and barking up the wrong tree. |
| 2021-05-12 00:49:26 +0200 | <shanemikel> | In particular this paper: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/typefun.pdf |
| 2021-05-12 00:50:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | A decision to export a concrete type can be a horrible idea. |
| 2021-05-12 00:50:34 +0200 | <monochrom> | But someone has to work on the concrete type, for example the author of the library in question. |
| 2021-05-12 00:50:54 +0200 | <monochrom> | A type is never abstract to everyone. |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:06 +0200 | <monochrom> | Everyone is not equal. |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:17 +0200 | <shanemikel> | What is the pastebin y'all are using these days? |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:18 +0200 | <ski> | how about if you do the usual record OO thing, `data Widget = NewWidget { render :: IO (),frob :: Blah -> Widget,.. }' .. is `Widget' a concrete data type, or is it an abstraction, and iterface, to a possible multitude of different concrete implementations ? |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:24 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | how about creating a concrete type that matches the abstraction level and then match it? |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:42 +0200 | <ski> | @paste |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:42 +0200 | <lambdabot> | A pastebin: https://paste.debian.net/ |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:52 +0200 | <ski> | @where paste |
| 2021-05-12 00:51:53 +0200 | <lambdabot> | Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com |
| 2021-05-12 00:52:06 +0200 | <ski> | shanemikel : the latter ^ is most used now, i think |
| 2021-05-12 00:52:06 +0200 | gemmaro_ja | (~Thunderbi@240f:74:d1f0:1:1bf:3730:3a54:b192) |
| 2021-05-12 00:52:12 +0200 | <pjb> | shanemikel: http://ideone.com |
| 2021-05-12 00:52:24 +0200 | <pjb> | shanemikel: or http://termbin.com |
| 2021-05-12 00:52:53 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 00:53:48 +0200 | ski | misses <http://hpaste.org>,<https://lpaste.net>,<http://paste.lisp.org> |
| 2021-05-12 00:54:16 +0200 | <pjb> | at least, on ideone.com you can compile and run your code. |
| 2021-05-12 00:55:49 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Thanks... Yeah I remember hpaste and lpaste ;( |
| 2021-05-12 00:56:11 +0200 | <shanemikel> | This looks to be showing the same compile error I'm getting: https://ideone.com/LHagbS |
| 2021-05-12 00:56:43 +0200 | <monochrom> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com is superior because it acknowledges that sometimes you should upload multiple files as one single coherent cohesive group. |
| 2021-05-12 00:56:45 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:57:07 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) |
| 2021-05-12 00:57:13 +0200 | <pjb> | There remains "abcdefgijkmnopqrstuvwxyz"-paste |
| 2021-05-12 00:57:50 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 00:57:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | As opposed to "this url is for X.hs" "this 2nd url is for Y.hs" "this 3rd url is for the error message" "there are more to come" and make people flip tabs crazily. |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:05 +0200 | gemmaro_ja | (~Thunderbi@240f:74:d1f0:1:1bf:3730:3a54:b192) (Quit: gemmaro_ja) |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:17 +0200 | <pjb> | monochrom: that's what shar is for. |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:25 +0200 | <pjb> | shar * | tb |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:48 +0200 | <monochrom> | uh is that a joke? |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:50 +0200 | <pjb> | cat ~/bin/tb -> #!/bin/bash \n nc termbin.com 9999 | tr -d '\000' |
| 2021-05-12 00:58:58 +0200 | <maerwald> | uh-oh |
| 2021-05-12 00:59:00 +0200 | <pjb> | monochrom: no joke. |
| 2021-05-12 00:59:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | Are you OK? |
| 2021-05-12 00:59:19 +0200 | <pjb> | monochrom: https://termbin.com/0ree |
| 2021-05-12 00:59:44 +0200 | <monochrom> | Why should I decode a shar? |
| 2021-05-12 00:59:51 +0200 | Ernest | (402ba442@64.43.164.66) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 01:00:04 +0200 | <monochrom> | I am not even paid for #haskell tech support. |
| 2021-05-12 01:00:04 +0200 | <pjb> | to get all the files? |
| 2021-05-12 01:00:38 +0200 | ski | . o O ( "Deyr fę, / deyia frǫndr, / deyr sialfr it sama; / ec veit einn / at aldri deýr: / domr vm dꜹþan hvern." ("Cattle die, / kin die, / and yourself the same; / I know one / that never dies: / doom/renown after the departed.") -- Hávamál ) |
| 2021-05-12 01:00:47 +0200 | <ski> | shanemikel : try enabling `ScopedTypeVariables' ? |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | You recognize that if other people offer free help then the helpee should also begin the good will but giving the helpers less chore. |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:06 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:11 +0200 | <monochrom> | s/but/by/ |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:13 +0200 | <pjb> | curl -s https://termbin.com/0ree |sh |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:24 +0200 | <shanemikel> | ski thanks! |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:28 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:29 +0200 | <pjb> | that's basically multi-file human-controlled copy-pasting across systems. |
| 2021-05-12 01:01:52 +0200 | <geekosaur> | well, aside from the whole trusting curl whatever | sh thing |
| 2021-05-12 01:02:09 +0200 | <pjb> | monochrom: indeed. curl -s https://termbin.com/0ree |sh is less chore than having to go to a web site, click left and right, select download folders, etc. |
| 2021-05-12 01:02:50 +0200 | <monochrom> | giving the helpers less chore |
| 2021-05-12 01:02:54 +0200 | <pjb> | just copy and paste: curl -s https://termbin.com/0ree |sh && make run # in your terminal and you reproduce by bug (or absence thereof). |
| 2021-05-12 01:02:56 +0200 | <pjb> | no chore. |
| 2021-05-12 01:03:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | I'll just end by saying how I would answer to a shar paste. |
| 2021-05-12 01:03:19 +0200 | <shanemikel> | ski GHC is usually kind enough to tell me which features I need |
| 2021-05-12 01:03:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | "This is not a shell scripting channel, you're in the wrong channel. THE END" |
| 2021-05-12 01:03:32 +0200 | <pjb> | monochrom: shar are human readable! You can validate them before | sh them. |
| 2021-05-12 01:03:36 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | how about creating an irc client with the integrated pastebin functionality |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:00 +0200 | <pjb> | m_shiraeeshi: it already exist, it's called DCC, but it's disabled nowadays because idiots of the past. |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:03 +0200 | <geekosaur> | some already have it |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:05 +0200 | <ski> | shanemikel : a more modern version would have `toInt :: Proxy n -> Int', avoiding the `undefined's |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:07 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Quit: rj) |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:35 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if you paste something more than 3 or so lines into them they offer to send it to a pastebin and send the resulting url |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:42 +0200 | <ski> | (some would suggest to use `TypeApplications' instead .. but i'm not too happy with that extension) |
| 2021-05-12 01:04:55 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | pjb: what did idiots do? |
| 2021-05-12 01:05:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:05:29 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | oh, it |
| 2021-05-12 01:05:33 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | it's a protocol |
| 2021-05-12 01:06:16 +0200 | vent | (~vent@185.62.190.213) |
| 2021-05-12 01:08:09 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Proxy is nice |
| 2021-05-12 01:09:13 +0200 | <shanemikel> | What's the issue with TypeApplications? |
| 2021-05-12 01:10:16 +0200 | <ski> | suddenly the order in which tyvars are generalized matters |
| 2021-05-12 01:10:26 +0200 | <ski> | becomes a part of the public interface |
| 2021-05-12 01:10:44 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Ahh |
| 2021-05-12 01:11:03 +0200 | john2gb0 | (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:11:52 +0200 | john2gb0 | (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-05-12 01:12:24 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 01:13:17 +0200 | <pjb> | m_shiraeeshi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Client-to-Client#DCC_SEND_exploit |
| 2021-05-12 01:14:41 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 01:18:53 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:19:30 +0200 | teej | (uid154177@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xyjkdonrvgpmwwum) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 01:19:46 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 01:19:53 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166) |
| 2021-05-12 01:23:37 +0200 | kupi | (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-faqhkbxusvkvdgls) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 01:28:02 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) () |
| 2021-05-12 01:28:09 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 01:29:00 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) () |
| 2021-05-12 01:29:14 +0200 | deviantfero | (~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 01:29:39 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 01:30:00 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) () |
| 2021-05-12 01:30:04 +0200 | shanemikel | (~shanemike@desk.roadwar.net) |
| 2021-05-12 01:34:34 +0200 | vent | (~vent@185.62.190.213) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 01:37:54 +0200 | kupi | (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oxtqruuygxfvgpji) |
| 2021-05-12 01:38:26 +0200 | rzmt | (~rzmt@87-92-180-112.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:38:55 +0200 | <Cajun> | how do i go about solving a failed build with stack? package is `parconc-examples` error and files: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/glsJbPZe |
| 2021-05-12 01:40:09 +0200 | <shanemikel> | OMG a multipaste |
| 2021-05-12 01:40:30 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 01:42:08 +0200 | <monochrom> | Are you sure that you should use the resolver as said in stack.yaml? |
| 2021-05-12 01:42:51 +0200 | <monochrom> | But I don't use stack, I don't know these things, apart from high-level ideas. |
| 2021-05-12 01:43:05 +0200 | killsushi | (~killsushi@2607:fea8:3d40:767:a826:23b7:521c:2d11) |
| 2021-05-12 01:43:25 +0200 | <maerwald> | Cajun: do what it says |
| 2021-05-12 01:43:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | and then it's usually that and repeat |
| 2021-05-12 01:44:00 +0200 | <maerwald> | bc the next solver run will find more missing stuff, potentially |
| 2021-05-12 01:44:12 +0200 | <monochrom> | :) |
| 2021-05-12 01:44:19 +0200 | acidjnk_new2 | (~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9509002dc6dbf76c6cb5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:44:22 +0200 | Deide | (~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa) |
| 2021-05-12 01:48:05 +0200 | <Cajun> | maerwald: is there any easier way to do that? like a script to just edit it on repeat? otherwise this seems like a chore. and last time i did that it ended up wanting me to put cabal 2.something and caused an error |
| 2021-05-12 01:49:55 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:50:57 +0200 | vent | (~vent@185.62.190.213) |
| 2021-05-12 01:53:22 +0200 | EvilMagix | (~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) |
| 2021-05-12 01:53:47 +0200 | <Cajun> | maerwald: alright it only makes me do it twice before it errors. heres the output to both commands and the stack.yaml https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vrvPgBLC |
| 2021-05-12 01:54:46 +0200 | m0rphism | (~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 01:56:04 +0200 | chimera | (~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2021-05-12 01:58:08 +0200 | <geekosaur> | why did you put Cabal in there twice instead of changing the version? |
| 2021-05-12 01:58:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | heh |
| 2021-05-12 01:58:53 +0200 | <monochrom> | Ah, perhaps by automatic suggestions. |
| 2021-05-12 01:59:01 +0200 | <Cajun> | yeah its automatic suggestions |
| 2021-05-12 01:59:41 +0200 | <geekosaur> | for what it's worth, I would have tried allow-newer since later Cabal versions should be backward compatible |
| 2021-05-12 02:00:10 +0200 | <monochrom> | Along that line, today I met with my TAs. On the subject of commenting or even giving marks on code quality, a TA suggested hlint. |
| 2021-05-12 02:00:42 +0200 | Guest50610 | (~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 02:00:47 +0200 | <Cale> | If hlint gives no suggestions, deduct 1 mark |
| 2021-05-12 02:01:13 +0200 | <monochrom> | "Ah but an hlint complaint like 'your parentheses are redundant' is not just cause for deducting marks. Making an XY problem is. hlint picks on all the unimportant things and misses on all the important things." |
| 2021-05-12 02:01:24 +0200 | <monochrom> | haha Cale that's a good scheme too |
| 2021-05-12 02:03:05 +0200 | conal | (~conal@64.71.133.70) |
| 2021-05-12 02:03:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | Generally at today's technological level, these algorithmic suggests are all superficial and run the risk of causing moar XY problems. |
| 2021-05-12 02:04:11 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 02:09:11 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:09:17 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | what does that long sequence of symbols in recommended action mean? |
| 2021-05-12 02:09:37 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | * Recommended action: try adding the following to your extra-deps in /home/cajun/HaskellProjects/parconc-examples-0.4.8/stack.yaml |
| 2021-05-12 02:10:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | it's giving a commit hash for an exact version, looks like |
| 2021-05-12 02:10:22 +0200 | <Cajun> | yes its the hash for the version. allow-newer is allowing it to build but ill see if it runs |
| 2021-05-12 02:10:28 +0200 | <geekosaur> | which is a good example of why not to quite trust automatic suggestions; that's usually going overboard |
| 2021-05-12 02:10:43 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:11:19 +0200 | <monochrom> | Blockchains and cryptography solve all social problems such as distribution of wealth and reproducible unbuildability. >:) |
| 2021-05-12 02:11:58 +0200 | <Cajun> | something something cardano |
| 2021-05-12 02:12:04 +0200 | <Cajun> | x3 |
| 2021-05-12 02:12:26 +0200 | <monochrom> | I still think the resolver is too old to start with. 2018 January 1st?! |
| 2021-05-12 02:12:52 +0200 | <monochrom> | I mean unless you are also building a version of parconc from that period. |
| 2021-05-12 02:13:09 +0200 | <monochrom> | Period instruments for only period music. |
| 2021-05-12 02:13:11 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:13:29 +0200 | <Cajun> | the book is from 2013 but the package is kept up to date. that package is the one chosen automatically by `stack init` |
| 2021-05-12 02:14:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | OK so the parconc version is of year 2020 or even 2021 |
| 2021-05-12 02:14:45 +0200 | <monochrom> | I have trouble believing that it's compatible with old GHC and old Cabal library that came with old GHC. |
| 2021-05-12 02:15:04 +0200 | <Cajun> | should i change to some newer LTS resolver? specifically the one for my GHC 8.8.4? |
| 2021-05-12 02:15:05 +0200 | <monochrom> | In terms of GHC versions and Cabal versions, a 2-year gap is too big. |
| 2021-05-12 02:15:21 +0200 | <monochrom> | Yeah I think so, I think you should try newer resolvers. |
| 2021-05-12 02:15:47 +0200 | <monochrom> | Then again I don't use stack so I don't know how much you should trust or not trust stack init. |
| 2021-05-12 02:16:26 +0200 | <Cajun> | it complained quite a bit about versions and stuff so only 1 thing passed. no clue |
| 2021-05-12 02:16:28 +0200 | <monochrom> | Also I don't know whether an old stack version is the cause of stack-init defaulting to an old resolver. |
| 2021-05-12 02:16:29 +0200 | <geekosaur> | stack init will be using the global stack config, which unless it's been manually maintained will date back to when stack was first installed |
| 2021-05-12 02:16:40 +0200 | <monochrom> | Oh heh |
| 2021-05-12 02:16:50 +0200 | <geekosaur> | regardless of how old the current version of stack is, iirc |
| 2021-05-12 02:17:03 +0200 | <monochrom> | Gosh this is a mess. |
| 2021-05-12 02:17:04 +0200 | <geekosaur> | currently installed that is |
| 2021-05-12 02:17:33 +0200 | <monochrom> | Now this detail would be one I would ask "why should it be invented?" |
| 2021-05-12 02:17:54 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 02:18:01 +0200 | bennofs__ | (~quassel@dynamic-077-011-002-207.77.11.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2021-05-12 02:18:04 +0200 | <Cajun> | so how would i fix that? the build failed building happy 1.19.9 but i have 1.19.12. should i just stop and use cabal? ive heard that cabal can be a pain with dependency hell but have most of those issues been fixed? |
| 2021-05-12 02:18:26 +0200 | <geekosaur> | long since |
| 2021-05-12 02:18:33 +0200 | <geekosaur> | cabal v1 had those kinds of issues |
| 2021-05-12 02:19:39 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 02:20:38 +0200 | larryba | (~bc817c21@199.204.85.195) |
| 2021-05-12 02:21:08 +0200 | <Cajun> | alright thank you, cabal seems so much less painful to use monochrom++ geekosaur++ |
| 2021-05-12 02:21:58 +0200 | bennofs_ | (~quassel@dynamic-077-013-025-172.77.13.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:22:36 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:24:09 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:24:13 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:26:22 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 02:31:17 +0200 | nineonin_ | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:31:40 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 02:32:06 +0200 | proofofkeags | (~proofofke@205.209.28.54) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:35:09 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 02:35:40 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) |
| 2021-05-12 02:37:46 +0200 | cole-h | (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:42:36 +0200 | seveg | (~gabriel@188-167-252-202.dynamic.chello.sk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:44:20 +0200 | seveg | (~gabriel@2a02-ab04-0249-8d00-dea6-32ff-fe17-0993.dynamic.v6.chello.sk) |
| 2021-05-12 02:46:17 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Quit: Caught exception) |
| 2021-05-12 02:46:41 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 02:50:11 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 02:50:26 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 02:55:47 +0200 | drbean_ | (~drbean@TC210-63-209-24.static.apol.com.tw) |
| 2021-05-12 02:57:20 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 02:58:17 +0200 | dcoutts__ | dcoutts |
| 2021-05-12 03:01:10 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 03:02:10 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 03:02:57 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:04:33 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:53fb:1000:2c1d:2721:9e36:7aea) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:05:30 +0200 | DTZUZU | (~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) |
| 2021-05-12 03:05:33 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:06:20 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:5237:1c00:bdb7:e463:e276:44ae) |
| 2021-05-12 03:06:50 +0200 | <shanemikel> | somthing something cardano is the reason I'm refreshing my haskell skillz. want to see what they're doing with smart contracts |
| 2021-05-12 03:07:35 +0200 | <shanemikel> | not to solve problems, but to create new ones ;) |
| 2021-05-12 03:08:04 +0200 | <Cale> | Taking cryptocurrency down from the inside? |
| 2021-05-12 03:09:30 +0200 | <shanemikel> | we're all on the inside now [laughs maniacally] |
| 2021-05-12 03:09:37 +0200 | <Cale> | I just want to be done with it all already. |
| 2021-05-12 03:10:22 +0200 | <shanemikel> | but we're not even on the moon yet :( |
| 2021-05-12 03:10:48 +0200 | <Axman6> | _if_ cryptocurrency is to be something actually useful, I'd definitely rather see it happen with Cardano than most alternatives. PoW is horrible, and IOHK seem to be doing a lot of good work, despite the fact it's cryptocurrency related |
| 2021-05-12 03:11:08 +0200 | <Cale> | Distributed databases are not a good fit for the real world. If you know who manages the connection between your database and the real world, you know where your database can be centralised. If you don't know, then you're just playing a video game with bad graphics despite all the graphics cards. |
| 2021-05-12 03:11:46 +0200 | hackage | (mniip@haskell/bot/hackage) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 03:12:52 +0200 | whataday | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:13:11 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) |
| 2021-05-12 03:13:59 +0200 | whataday | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2021-05-12 03:14:53 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:14:56 +0200 | atraii | (~atraii@2601:681:8700:c471:182c:49ac:c430:1f21) |
| 2021-05-12 03:15:48 +0200 | <shanemikel> | that's one way to put it |
| 2021-05-12 03:15:57 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:16:12 +0200 | <Axman6> | I'm not sure I agree that they aren't a good fit for the real world. I'm somewhat biased, but by no means a crypto evangelist, or smart contract nut, but after working with DAML, and seeing technologies likc Canton, I can see how there is huge scops for building systems which share only the data they need so, and can have other write applications against others' shared data agaiunst it, without each party needing to know about thing. |
| 2021-05-12 03:17:01 +0200 | tdammers | (~tdammers@unaffiliated/tdammers) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:17:36 +0200 | <Cale> | Doesn't that start to look like a bunch of isolated private databases that have restricted public APIs though? |
| 2021-05-12 03:18:01 +0200 | <Axman6> | That one, fairly difficult to get right, way to do things, yes |
| 2021-05-12 03:18:58 +0200 | berberman_ | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) |
| 2021-05-12 03:19:52 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:00 +0200 | trepanger_ | (~z@ics141-225.icsincorporated.com) |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:22 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:23 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:23 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:24 +0200 | <Axman6> | the last project I worked on at one of my previous jobs was to build a system for tracing movements through supply chains - something like DAML with Canton would have made that project nearly trivial to implement, and for each party to build their own apps on, and to allow disclosure to the relevant authorities in a fairly trivial way |
| 2021-05-12 03:20:31 +0200 | atraii | (~atraii@2601:681:8700:c471:182c:49ac:c430:1f21) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:21:20 +0200 | refusenick | (~user@2601:644:8502:d700::94c9) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)") |
| 2021-05-12 03:22:00 +0200 | Alleria | (~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-010d-5dbc-e6e6-cd09.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 03:22:24 +0200 | Alleria | Guest234 |
| 2021-05-12 03:22:45 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:23:04 +0200 | <Axman6> | what a redundant sentense, I shouldn't do work and write on IRC at the same time |
| 2021-05-12 03:23:10 +0200 | rajivr | (uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hokcqwgivdarxuri) |
| 2021-05-12 03:24:57 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:24:57 +0200 | <Cale> | I can definitely see the value in making it easier to write what are more or less centralised databases with well-structured APIs that are easy to use and interconnect. I just don't see what adding a peer-to-peer distributed network into the mix (on top of TCP/IP) really does to help anything. |
| 2021-05-12 03:25:43 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:26:04 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:26:22 +0200 | <Cale> | As well as having the default policy for replication be that everyone replicates everything all the time. |
| 2021-05-12 03:26:26 +0200 | <Axman6> | The only pieces that need to be distributed are the shared pieces of information, which should be consistently viewed by all involved parties, and that's what a system like that gives you. Who wons the data that a shipment is being sent from A to bB? Who owns the fact that B has received it? |
| 2021-05-12 03:26:35 +0200 | Guest36391 | (~iomonad@unaffiliated/iomonad) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:27:08 +0200 | <Axman6> | that's not the default policy in the systems I'm talking about. This is a long way from the one true blockchain model of most current cryptocurrencies |
| 2021-05-12 03:27:44 +0200 | <Axman6> | ehat is shared is what is visible to those parties, nothing else needs to be |
| 2021-05-12 03:28:10 +0200 | killsushi | (~killsushi@2607:fea8:3d40:767:a826:23b7:521c:2d11) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 03:28:45 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 03:28:51 +0200 | <Axman6> | Like, don't get me wrong, I had exactly the same beliefs before working with DAML, I though most of the ideas in crypto currencies were terrible, and many of them made scaling nearly impossible. but that model doesn't have to be _the_ model |
| 2021-05-12 03:28:54 +0200 | killsushi | (~killsushi@2607:fea8:3d40:767:a826:23b7:521c:2d11) |
| 2021-05-12 03:28:58 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:29:11 +0200 | <Cale> | In my mind, whatever real-world organisation is responsible for policing the relationship between the parties A and B ought to own that data. Someone has to be tasked with ensuring the contents of the database are correct, after all. |
| 2021-05-12 03:29:50 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) |
| 2021-05-12 03:29:55 +0200 | <Cale> | If that's just party B because we're lazy, and that situation is inadequate, no blockchain is going to really solve that problem. |
| 2021-05-12 03:30:04 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2021-05-12 03:30:34 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) |
| 2021-05-12 03:32:13 +0200 | Iceland_jack | (~user@95.147.45.92) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:32:53 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:33:08 +0200 | xkapastel | (uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jebgsafpndujiwtn) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 03:33:21 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:33:30 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:34:00 +0200 | Guest36391 | (~iomonad@unaffiliated/iomonad) |
| 2021-05-12 03:36:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:06 +0200 | <Axman6> | What if it's the thirs party, say the government, which publishes the contracts which represent the relationship between those parties, and those contracts enforce visibility of that organisation when those actions are undertaken? |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:26 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:26 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:26 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:41 +0200 | nineonine | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:43 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:55 +0200 | <Cale> | Yeah, that's basically what we've got. People sign contracts, governments oversee the contracts. Ultimately, a judge can say whether the contract was valid or not. |
| 2021-05-12 03:38:57 +0200 | malumore__ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) |
| 2021-05-12 03:39:40 +0200 | <Axman6> | like, this is tuff that a coupld of dozen lines of code in DAML, and I'm sure other languages too (though DAMLs model of visivility is quite unique as far as I can tell) |
| 2021-05-12 03:40:47 +0200 | cr3 | (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 03:40:49 +0200 | <Cale> | I'd probably support the government keeping some sort of database of official contracts, but I do find the automated reasoning about them to be troubling. I see it as a good thing that a judge is allowed to say "no, that's actually slavery, you're not allowed to form that contract" and render it void, despite the potential for abuse. |
| 2021-05-12 03:41:13 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:41:37 +0200 | carif | (~mcarifio@cpe-67-246-227-118.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 03:41:40 +0200 | <Cale> | When it's a program running uncontrollably on a global network of everyone's computers, that might not be possible. |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:12 +0200 | malumore_ | (~malumore@151.62.117.210) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:33 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:40 +0200 | <Axman6> | why would it be uncontrolable? |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:42 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:59 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:59 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 03:42:59 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 03:43:43 +0200 | <Cale> | Well, it depends on how you set up the network, but usually these networks are designed to be decentralised, and don't have entities with authority to just change or delete things at will. |
| 2021-05-12 03:43:56 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) |
| 2021-05-12 03:44:29 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@cpe-69-133-55-43.cinci.res.rr.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 03:44:37 +0200 | <Cale> | I think the people who enforce that the contents of the database agree with the real-world situation and are legal and valid should have such authority over the contents of the database, it is a tool primarily for their sake. |
| 2021-05-12 03:45:27 +0200 | <Cale> | After all, they could always choose to act as though the contents of the database are different from what the computers say. |
| 2021-05-12 03:46:01 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@cpe-69-133-55-43.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 03:46:21 +0200 | <Cale> | But if you have a bunch of smart contracts running out of control that are in disagreement with what is actually going to be enforced, that'll be a mess quickly. |
| 2021-05-12 03:46:38 +0200 | <Axman6> | of course, legislation is what provides the tool for enforcing the connection between the real world and documents about it. this has been the same for millenia |
| 2021-05-12 03:47:56 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 03:48:46 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) |
| 2021-05-12 03:48:57 +0200 | <Cale> | Now, it might be a good idea to have some sort of standardised APIs for governments to be able to manage digital records of financial contracts that they are going to legally enforce. I just again see making that database distributed as creating more technical difficulties than it solves. |
| 2021-05-12 03:49:20 +0200 | sdrodge | (~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:49:53 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 03:50:06 +0200 | <Cale> | If you're the type to say "well, I don't trust the government", that's just too bad, because they have the guns, so nobody was asking. |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:02 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | I don't know nothing about cryptocurrencies, let me ask |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:26 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | Cale: "As well as having the default policy for replication be that everyone replicates everything all the time." |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:32 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | what do you mean? |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:52 +0200 | sheepduck | (~sheepduck@2607:fea8:2a62:9600::9ba6) |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:57 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: Generally those who are participating in blockchains store a copy of the entire chain of blocks on their machine |
| 2021-05-12 03:51:59 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 03:52:56 +0200 | <Axman6> | but that's absolutely not necessary |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:08 +0200 | <Cale> | Yeah, it's just uncommon to avoid it. |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:29 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so, when performing a transaction, let's say selling something, you send a message "I sold this thing", and then what happens? |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:37 +0200 | <Axman6> | well, Cardano is attempting to, as is Canton |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:39 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:49 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | everybody should acknowledge your transaction? or majority? |
| 2021-05-12 03:53:51 +0200 | <shanemikel> | The main issue I see with blockchains is that anyone can stick any data in it and it's basically impossible to redact without a fork (think of certain rather unsavory kinds of explicit images). |
| 2021-05-12 03:54:33 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: Well, in proof of work systems, some miner may choose to pick up your transaction and include it in the next block that they construct, when they solve the puzzle. |
| 2021-05-12 03:55:16 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 03:55:23 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: and then that new block gets shared with all the nodes, and so long as it's part of the longest/largest-amount-of-work chain, your transaction happened. |
| 2021-05-12 03:55:24 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so what miners do is they replicate and acknowledge transactions? |
| 2021-05-12 03:55:30 +0200 | <Cale> | yeah |
| 2021-05-12 03:55:47 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:20 +0200 | <Axman6> | shanemikel: again, that's not a necessary feature of blockchains, that is a feature of some current blockchains. the DAML view is that only whose parties who are _allowed_ to see any data can, not everyone - they may see that data exists, but not what it is |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:35 +0200 | <shanemikel> | That's a cool feature if you want to do something like stick an encrypted signed revision of your research paper in the chain before collaborating with some unscrupulous but brilliant guy (just in case he tries to claim credit). Not so cool if somebody sticks your social security # or deed to your house in it. |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:35 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | Cale: "and so long as it's part of the longest/largest-amount-of-work chain" |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:40 +0200 | <Cale> | Axman6: That's definitely an improvement, to be sure |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:52 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so there's possibility of conflicts and divergencies? |
| 2021-05-12 03:56:58 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: yep |
| 2021-05-12 03:57:20 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | it reminds me of cap-theorem |
| 2021-05-12 03:57:26 +0200 | <shanemikel> | permanent divergence is called a "fork" |
| 2021-05-12 03:57:27 +0200 | <Axman6> | in DAML you have to be explicit about who can see any contract |
| 2021-05-12 03:57:54 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: Well-behaved miners tend to discard work that they had done to mine a block once they see that a new one got published. |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:02 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:02 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@31.220.5.250) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:02 +0200 | hyiltiz | (~quassel@unaffiliated/hyiltiz) |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:21 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | why though? you could make it append-only |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:37 +0200 | <Cale> | But it's not strictly necessary -- if the block they just mined was harder to mine, perhaps they could publish just after and have theirs accepted instead. |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:39 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so that newer data overwrite older |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:50 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | but that could lead to problems I guess |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:58 +0200 | <shanemikel> | m_shiraeeshi who is the authority on time or what is the "newest" block? |
| 2021-05-12 03:58:58 +0200 | <Cale> | Because it's a wacky distributed database where everyone is considered an adversary |
| 2021-05-12 03:59:16 +0200 | <shanemikel> | that's the main issue with distributed systems is no oracle (time is pretty important to agree on) |
| 2021-05-12 03:59:45 +0200 | <Cale> | and so you (a) do far more work than any reasonable person would expect, and (b) have to deal with disagreements |
| 2021-05-12 04:00:11 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:00:31 +0200 | <shanemikel> | m_shiraeeshi what do you wait until every miner in the world has accepted a block before continuing the next TX? How do you know they were all online? |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:09 +0200 | tdammers | (~tdammers@77.109.72.213.res.static.edpnet.net) |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:09 +0200 | tdammers | (~tdammers@77.109.72.213.res.static.edpnet.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:09 +0200 | tdammers | (~tdammers@unaffiliated/tdammers) |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:17 +0200 | <Cale> | and there's also all kinds of fun problems at the peer-to-peer layer of how new connections to the network get handled and messages are routed around the network. Bitcoin is pretty stable since most of its routing is ad-hoc, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most networks are more exploitable at the P2P layer than we've yet had to contend with. |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:23 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:27 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.228) |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:47 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Axman6 I bet there are all kinds of hidden goodies on the BTC chain |
| 2021-05-12 04:01:50 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | what is the criterion for the transaction being considered committed then? like a minimal number of acknowledgements or something |
| 2021-05-12 04:02:05 +0200 | <shanemikel> | It is all probabilistic based on number of confirmations |
| 2021-05-12 04:02:10 +0200 | <Cale> | m_shiraeeshi: Sometimes people will wait for a number of blocks to be piled atop it, yeah |
| 2021-05-12 04:02:22 +0200 | <shanemikel> | you never know that a block was accepted. only pretty sure after some number of them |
| 2021-05-12 04:03:25 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:5237:1c00:bdb7:e463:e276:44ae) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:03:35 +0200 | <Axman6> | goodies and very much not goodies |
| 2021-05-12 04:03:35 +0200 | <Cale> | It becomes harder and harder to change things farther into the past, because you have to do the work to form all the blocks on top of whatever it was you wanted changed. |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:18 +0200 | <Cale> | (well, blocks representing an equivalent amount of work) |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:25 +0200 | <shanemikel> | It's all based on game theory AFAIK... miners are incentivized to produce the next block and make $$ they don't want to do extra work for the same reward |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:26 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | in a way it resembles how git works, right? |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:34 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:523e:f300:70f:5849:6a09:4e61) |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:37 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | git hashes things |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:37 +0200 | <shanemikel> | yeah |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:41 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@cpe-69-133-55-43.cinci.res.rr.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 04:04:59 +0200 | <shanemikel> | git is based on a sort-of merkle dag right? |
| 2021-05-12 04:05:07 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:05:30 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:05:41 +0200 | davve_ | (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) |
| 2021-05-12 04:06:05 +0200 | davve | (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 04:06:26 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:06:50 +0200 | <Cale> | But yeah, all of this kind of thing is unbelievably computationally expensive and power hungry. There are ways to improve the situation a bit vs. proof-of-work, but they're never really going to come close to postgres performance-wise. |
| 2021-05-12 04:06:52 +0200 | `slikts | (~nelabs@wikipedia/reinis) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 2021-05-12 04:06:55 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2021-05-12 04:07:58 +0200 | `slikts | (~nelabs@2a00:d880:5:395::37ca) |
| 2021-05-12 04:07:58 +0200 | `slikts | (~nelabs@2a00:d880:5:395::37ca) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 04:07:58 +0200 | `slikts | (~nelabs@wikipedia/reinis) |
| 2021-05-12 04:08:07 +0200 | sdrodge | (~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) |
| 2021-05-12 04:08:16 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) |
| 2021-05-12 04:08:17 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 04:08:17 +0200 | lambdabot | (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) |
| 2021-05-12 04:08:31 +0200 | <Cale> | There's stuff like Tezos' proof-of-stake, where people are granted power over the network in accordance with how much monopoly money they have (which was initially determined by how much real world money they gave the Tezos devs) |
| 2021-05-12 04:09:45 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | what about ethereum? it runs arbitrary computations in blockchain somehow? |
| 2021-05-12 04:09:49 +0200 | <Cale> | (The idea being that if you want your monopoly money to continue being regarded as valuable, you had better act in good faith) |
| 2021-05-12 04:10:03 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Theory on the street is that PoW is less vulnerable to money-printing power grab schemes.. |
| 2021-05-12 04:10:06 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:11:07 +0200 | <Cale> | Ethereum started out proof-of-work, and I think there's a plan in the works to change it over to proof-of-stake. |
| 2021-05-12 04:11:27 +0200 | justan0theruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:01 +0200 | <monochrom> | I want to proof my cake and eat it too. |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:12 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | some crypto jargon I see here |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:17 +0200 | <shanemikel> | It seems like a conflict of interest could emerge between network operators and stakeholders. How do they incentivize network operation? An indirect incentive for stakeholders to maintain network integrety? |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:20 +0200 | <Axman6> | bake it with ASICs |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:27 +0200 | justanotheruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:12:27 +0200 | <Cale> | Proof of stake has the rather enormous advantage of not wasting everyone's graphics cards (and potentially custom hardware) on solving otherwise-meaningless cryptographic puzzles. |
| 2021-05-12 04:13:27 +0200 | <Cale> | Still, you have every node on the network duplicating and checking all the computation that happens on it |
| 2021-05-12 04:13:33 +0200 | urodna | (~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna) |
| 2021-05-12 04:14:08 +0200 | <Cale> | So it's still pretty expensive and wasteful power-wise to do everything, relative to traditional computer programs. |
| 2021-05-12 04:14:18 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Also, if BTC was proof of stake US gov would already be one of the top 1% network controllers (AFAIK because of silk road seizure) |
| 2021-05-12 04:14:29 +0200 | <Cale> | Nice |
| 2021-05-12 04:14:43 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 04:15:47 +0200 | <Cale> | So we just need to convince the BTC folks to go proof of stake, and then convince the US government to shut it down, and then we can rest for a bit before figuring out how to EOL the rest of cryptocurrency. |
| 2021-05-12 04:15:58 +0200 | <shanemikel> | LOL |
| 2021-05-12 04:16:03 +0200 | davve_ | (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 04:16:10 +0200 | davve | (davve@bsd.douchedata.com) |
| 2021-05-12 04:16:22 +0200 | <shanemikel> | *sorry EOL |
| 2021-05-12 04:16:34 +0200 | <Cale> | (end of life) |
| 2021-05-12 04:16:58 +0200 | <shanemikel> | ahaha |
| 2021-05-12 04:17:31 +0200 | <Cale> | I just want it to be over |
| 2021-05-12 04:17:34 +0200 | <Cale> | haha |
| 2021-05-12 04:17:56 +0200 | <nshepperd> | proof of work blockchain solves a very specific problem, which is byzantine consensus in the absence of God. if you're an organisation providing a service your don't need it since you have a god |
| 2021-05-12 04:19:42 +0200 | <shanemikel> | yeah most interesting to me is geopolitics of it. India trying to shut it down, china w/ huge mining power. Texas trying to become mining hotspot. at least it will be interesting. |
| 2021-05-12 04:20:40 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | I heard that at some point all the coins are going to be mined |
| 2021-05-12 04:20:43 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:20:52 +0200 | <shanemikel> | especially the timing of it during global power competition and the breakdown of postwar consensus |
| 2021-05-12 04:21:39 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | what limits coins from being mined indefinitely? |
| 2021-05-12 04:22:14 +0200 | <shanemikel> | I think the rewards for new blocks diminish over time on BTC ad infinitum? |
| 2021-05-12 04:23:32 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | also I got the impression that it's becoming increasingly harder to mine coins |
| 2021-05-12 04:23:49 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Which will be the case as long as the major BTC fork is controlled by devs, clients & miners who want to adhere to Satoshi's original vision? |
| 2021-05-12 04:24:03 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | ok, so what happens after that? people start again from the clean slate? |
| 2021-05-12 04:24:13 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | erase all the history? |
| 2021-05-12 04:24:15 +0200 | <shanemikel> | The dev communities are another interesting locus of control. |
| 2021-05-12 04:24:36 +0200 | <shanemikel> | No, you can fork the chain and change the protocol |
| 2021-05-12 04:26:46 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | so is there some kind of a garbage collection in blockchain? |
| 2021-05-12 04:26:49 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Get super active on GitHub, join crypto community, talk some Capos (power devs) into adopting your new community guidelines, sneak some malevolent stuff in the backdoor, promote people who are secretly allied with you to hostile takeover of the crypto, profit. |
| 2021-05-12 04:26:59 +0200 | FinnElija | (~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) |
| 2021-05-12 04:26:59 +0200 | finn_elija | Guest29940 |
| 2021-05-12 04:26:59 +0200 | FinnElija | finn_elija |
| 2021-05-12 04:27:08 +0200 | <shanemikel> | (also need to handle miners somehow) |
| 2021-05-12 04:27:29 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | maybe my mental model is wrong, and that's why I'm asking about gc |
| 2021-05-12 04:27:32 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 04:28:35 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Only discarded blocks.. everything else stays in the chain. |
| 2021-05-12 04:29:05 +0200 | <shanemikel> | you discard blocks when you decide they are not getting accepted.. otherwise keep on chugging |
| 2021-05-12 04:29:28 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | I heard that there was a dev in bitcoin who campaigned against popularizing bitcoin, and convinced a lot of people |
| 2021-05-12 04:29:33 +0200 | Guest29940 | (~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:29:37 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | it was like 5 years ago |
| 2021-05-12 04:30:59 +0200 | conal | (~conal@64.71.133.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 04:31:33 +0200 | <m_shiraeeshi> | and also about some issues leading to increased network traffic |
| 2021-05-12 04:32:28 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Before the crash in 2017 the BTC network was too slow to process TXs (because of the boom & hype, overloaded). That was a major reason for the crash in my mind. |
| 2021-05-12 04:33:30 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:34:25 +0200 | CrazyPython | (~crazypyth@98.122.164.118) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:34:37 +0200 | rprije | (~rprije@110-174-108-199.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 2021-05-12 04:35:00 +0200 | drbean_ | (~drbean@TC210-63-209-24.static.apol.com.tw) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+cygwin2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 04:35:19 +0200 | <shanemikel> | The latest hype cycle it seems has averted this problem (though I don't know if it is advances in the network/protocol or operation of the exchanges) |
| 2021-05-12 04:35:45 +0200 | conal | (~conal@64.71.133.70) |
| 2021-05-12 04:36:31 +0200 | <shanemikel> | Coinbase is much bigger and has capital to loan, speculate on TX outcomes, probably controls a huge volume of BTC to make TX fluid off-chain |
| 2021-05-12 04:38:05 +0200 | <shanemikel> | But on the blockchain there is no Fed to halt trading or loan/print to alleviate a liquidity trap |
| 2021-05-12 04:39:29 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) |
| 2021-05-12 04:39:54 +0200 | <shanemikel> | That was around the time when people were still debating whether BTC was a store of value or a medium of liquidity.. seems that argument is over and bulls have settled on store of value |
| 2021-05-12 04:39:55 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8001-ca00-f555-b4a5-fa93-bc1a-b3d6.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 04:40:06 +0200 | viluon | (uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jefbknzpvoezvjbn) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 04:42:01 +0200 | johncylee | (~johncylee@185.163.110.100) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 04:42:30 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@2603-6011-2200-f103-e9cf-0f11-7f01-6470.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 04:51:19 +0200 | theDon | (~td@muedsl-82-207-238-126.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:51:37 +0200 | EvilMagix | (~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:51:44 +0200 | <shanemikel> | This looks interesting https://well-typed.com/blog/2021/03/fundamental-blockchain/ |
| 2021-05-12 04:51:59 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) |
| 2021-05-12 04:52:02 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.228) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 04:52:12 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.228) |
| 2021-05-12 04:53:08 +0200 | theDon | (~td@94.134.91.159) |
| 2021-05-12 04:53:13 +0200 | fresheyeball | (~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 04:53:19 +0200 | thallada | (~thallada@fsf/member/thallada) |
| 2021-05-12 04:54:47 +0200 | jao | (~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:55:02 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 04:55:03 +0200 | jao | (jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) |
| 2021-05-12 04:55:40 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 04:57:58 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.121.138) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 04:58:07 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 04:58:52 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.121.138) |
| 2021-05-12 05:02:29 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.228) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 05:02:55 +0200 | mayleesia | (~mayleesia@dynamic-077-011-198-038.77.11.pool.telefonica.de) |
| 2021-05-12 05:06:11 +0200 | maylee | (~mayleesia@x4dbf5e45.dyn.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:07:16 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:07:26 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:07:53 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 05:08:50 +0200 | howdoi | (uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skpmotuzajgkfppr) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 05:09:56 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8001-ca00-f555-b4a5-fa93-bc1a-b3d6.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:15:28 +0200 | fresheyeball | (~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 05:16:32 +0200 | coot | (~coot@37.30.58.122.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 05:18:58 +0200 | jao | (jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:20:42 +0200 | jao | (~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) |
| 2021-05-12 05:21:25 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:21:42 +0200 | carif | (~mcarifio@cpe-67-246-227-118.rochester.res.rr.com) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 05:22:24 +0200 | rdivyanshu | (uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hkzwbomfxvfomdtz) |
| 2021-05-12 05:26:07 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 05:27:45 +0200 | patjameson | (~patjameso@139.28.218.148) |
| 2021-05-12 05:31:01 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) |
| 2021-05-12 05:31:23 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 05:31:59 +0200 | ggVGc | (~ggVGc@a.lowtech.earth) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 05:32:46 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 05:35:49 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 2021-05-12 05:42:33 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:43:07 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 05:45:50 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 05:52:36 +0200 | Sheilong | (uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wydsfqjrhoioptxh) () |
| 2021-05-12 05:52:53 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:53:07 +0200 | justanotheruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) |
| 2021-05-12 05:54:58 +0200 | jao | (~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:54:59 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 05:55:35 +0200 | justan0theruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 05:56:09 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) |
| 2021-05-12 05:56:41 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 05:56:51 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 05:59:24 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@2603-6011-2200-f103-e9cf-0f11-7f01-6470.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 06:06:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:09:31 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 06:13:22 +0200 | Chai-T-Rex | (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 06:18:50 +0200 | Chai-T-Rex | (~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) |
| 2021-05-12 06:23:38 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.189) |
| 2021-05-12 06:24:11 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 06:24:39 +0200 | waleee-cl | (uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pyxgzrqsorndsysw) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 06:27:10 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 06:27:25 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 2021-05-12 06:28:17 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.189) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:28:40 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:29:22 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 06:32:56 +0200 | malumore_ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) |
| 2021-05-12 06:35:11 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:35:56 +0200 | EvilMagix | (~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) |
| 2021-05-12 06:35:56 +0200 | malumore__ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:41:19 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:44:12 +0200 | ulidtko | (~ulidtko@194.54.80.38) |
| 2021-05-12 06:44:57 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 06:47:54 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) |
| 2021-05-12 06:50:31 +0200 | mrchampion | (~mrchampio@38.18.109.23) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 06:51:42 +0200 | Sososasa | (~textual@2600:1700:17f2:2b0:48bf:c522:d610:ba08) |
| 2021-05-12 06:53:06 +0200 | Sososasa | (~textual@2600:1700:17f2:2b0:48bf:c522:d610:ba08) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 06:54:47 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 06:54:57 +0200 | coeus | (~coeus@p200300d02708a90071c651138f13aa2e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 06:55:11 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-12 06:55:31 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 06:56:39 +0200 | carlomagno | (~cararell@148.87.23.13) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-05-12 06:58:29 +0200 | eacameron | (uid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ysloaedovjwjllrg) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 07:00:11 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:00:13 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:03:37 +0200 | kupi | (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oxtqruuygxfvgpji) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 07:04:08 +0200 | puke | (~vroom@217.138.252.196) (Quit: puke) |
| 2021-05-12 07:08:02 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) (Excess Flood) |
| 2021-05-12 07:08:23 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com) |
| 2021-05-12 07:08:24 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@122-199-1-30.ip4.superloop.com) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 07:08:24 +0200 | dibblego | (~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego) |
| 2021-05-12 07:08:29 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:09:55 +0200 | Shuppiluliuma | (~shuppilul@153.33.68.161) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:10:15 +0200 | cantstanya | (~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 07:11:39 +0200 | coeus | (~coeus@p200300d0270e5d005047ffeaff29ea8d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 07:13:02 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8001-ca00-f555-b4a5-fa93-bc1a-b3d6.res6.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 07:14:25 +0200 | aerona_ | (~aerona@2600:6c54:4600:f300:a087:e5ac:bbaa:7d1c) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 07:15:30 +0200 | cantstanya | (~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) |
| 2021-05-12 07:15:58 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:17:34 +0200 | alx741 | (~alx741@186.178.109.110) (Quit: alx741) |
| 2021-05-12 07:19:16 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:19:31 +0200 | berberman_ | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 07:19:53 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) |
| 2021-05-12 07:26:55 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-05-12 07:27:28 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 07:28:47 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 07:31:55 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:38:43 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50010b77dfbed5a7ace.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:40:00 +0200 | mayleesia | maylee |
| 2021-05-12 07:46:53 +0200 | larryba | (~bc817c21@199.204.85.195) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)) |
| 2021-05-12 07:47:48 +0200 | nineonin_ | (~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:e4fe:87c8:c43b:fc90) |
| 2021-05-12 07:49:26 +0200 | ulidtko|k | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) |
| 2021-05-12 07:49:33 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:50:27 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:51:10 +0200 | nineonine | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:51:26 +0200 | wonko7 | (~wonko7@62.115.229.50) |
| 2021-05-12 07:52:30 +0200 | ulidtko | (~ulidtko@194.54.80.38) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:52:39 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-12 07:55:28 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:55:31 +0200 | justanotheruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:55:52 +0200 | alexander | (~alexander@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:39fb:67a3:1f47:16d) |
| 2021-05-12 07:55:53 +0200 | ulidtko|kk | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) |
| 2021-05-12 07:56:12 +0200 | ulidtko|k | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:56:21 +0200 | alexander | Guest24024 |
| 2021-05-12 07:56:46 +0200 | rzmt | (~rzmt@87-92-227-98.rev.dnainternet.fi) |
| 2021-05-12 07:57:01 +0200 | mounty | (~mounty@236.216.214.218.sta.wbroadband.net.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 07:58:26 +0200 | cole-h | (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 07:59:52 +0200 | ulidtko|kk | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 08:00:19 +0200 | ulidtko|kk | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) |
| 2021-05-12 08:00:40 +0200 | falafel | (~falafel@2603-8001-ca00-f555-b4a5-fa93-bc1a-b3d6.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:03:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 08:05:19 +0200 | EvilMagix | (~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:07:38 +0200 | johannes_ | (~johannes@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) |
| 2021-05-12 08:07:51 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.241) |
| 2021-05-12 08:12:02 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.121.138) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:12:09 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 08:12:13 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.241) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:13:51 +0200 | yoneda | (~mike@193.206.102.122) |
| 2021-05-12 08:14:08 +0200 | Anonim001 | (~Anonim001@140.213.148.159) |
| 2021-05-12 08:14:42 +0200 | <Anonim001> | hai |
| 2021-05-12 08:15:26 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client") |
| 2021-05-12 08:16:35 +0200 | <Axman6> | Hello |
| 2021-05-12 08:17:25 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) |
| 2021-05-12 08:17:27 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2021-05-12 08:18:26 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 08:21:05 +0200 | dminuoso | (~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 08:21:05 +0200 | dminuoso | (~dminuoso@unaffiliated/dminuoso) |
| 2021-05-12 08:21:51 +0200 | ulidtko|k | (~ulidtko@194.54.80.38) |
| 2021-05-12 08:24:26 +0200 | ulidtko|kk | (~ulidtko@31.133.98.224) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:25:51 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.120.162) |
| 2021-05-12 08:26:41 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:26:42 +0200 | Rudd0 | (~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:27:34 +0200 | mikoto-chan | (~mikoto-ch@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) |
| 2021-05-12 08:32:22 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 08:34:06 +0200 | <juri_> | hio! |
| 2021-05-12 08:35:25 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 08:36:10 +0200 | danvet | (~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) |
| 2021-05-12 08:37:33 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:38:05 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 08:42:26 +0200 | rayyyy | (~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) |
| 2021-05-12 08:42:52 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:45:12 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.202) |
| 2021-05-12 08:48:38 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 08:49:41 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:51:52 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 08:54:53 +0200 | tinwood | (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 08:55:54 +0200 | plutoniix | (~q@ppp-171-97-98-58.revip8.asianet.co.th) |
| 2021-05-12 08:56:03 +0200 | thc202 | (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) |
| 2021-05-12 08:57:45 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 08:57:56 +0200 | tinwood | (~tinwood@general.default.akavanagh.uk0.bigv.io) |
| 2021-05-12 08:59:07 +0200 | john2gb0 | (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2021-05-12 09:02:17 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 2021-05-12 09:02:38 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 09:02:38 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 09:02:38 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@wikipedia/desperek) |
| 2021-05-12 09:05:57 +0200 | killsushi | (~killsushi@2607:fea8:3d40:767:a826:23b7:521c:2d11) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 09:06:53 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 09:08:21 +0200 | thunderrd | (~thunderrd@183.182.115.120) (*.net *.split) |
| 2021-05-12 09:09:45 +0200 | cole-h | (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:10:46 +0200 | Anonim001 | (~Anonim001@140.213.148.159) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:10:56 +0200 | Varis | (~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) |
| 2021-05-12 09:11:40 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 09:18:10 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 09:21:18 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 09:21:50 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) |
| 2021-05-12 09:22:32 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:23:23 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf005e54e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 09:23:45 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 09:24:21 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 09:25:07 +0200 | hiroaki | (~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:7fc3:e4ce:2a81:16be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:30:08 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 09:32:02 +0200 | chele | (~chele@78.128.94.174) |
| 2021-05-12 09:32:08 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) |
| 2021-05-12 09:32:53 +0200 | gehmehgeh | (~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) |
| 2021-05-12 09:36:14 +0200 | hexfive | (~hexfive@50.35.83.177) (Quit: i must go. my people need me.) |
| 2021-05-12 09:36:46 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:36:49 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:37:25 +0200 | hiroaki | (~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:f4a2:7a57:7d89:6f13) |
| 2021-05-12 09:38:23 +0200 | jrm2 | (~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) |
| 2021-05-12 09:38:59 +0200 | jrm | (~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:39:00 +0200 | jrm2 | jrm |
| 2021-05-12 09:40:16 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@178.165.130.48.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 2021-05-12 09:42:49 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:42:52 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 09:42:55 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Excess Flood) |
| 2021-05-12 09:44:52 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-25vy0i905bdcx4bbbsp.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-05-12 09:47:18 +0200 | <maerwald> | how do you make pkg-config work on windows? I installed haskell-dev via chocolatey and when executing cabal, it doesn't know where pkg-config (the tool) is |
| 2021-05-12 09:49:38 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 09:50:49 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 09:50:55 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) |
| 2021-05-12 09:51:16 +0200 | <[exa]> | export a PKG_CONFIG_PATH? |
| 2021-05-12 09:51:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | (can one export environment on windows?) |
| 2021-05-12 09:51:39 +0200 | <maerwald> | excellent questions |
| 2021-05-12 09:51:45 +0200 | <maerwald> | also, why would I need to do that? |
| 2021-05-12 09:51:56 +0200 | <maerwald> | chocolatey is supposed to do those things for me |
| 2021-05-12 09:52:24 +0200 | <maerwald> | PKG_CONFIG_PATH is about the .pc files, not the tool |
| 2021-05-12 09:52:29 +0200 | <maerwald> | afair |
| 2021-05-12 09:52:37 +0200 | <maerwald> | it can't find the tool |
| 2021-05-12 09:52:53 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah that might be true...then just PKG_CONFIG ? |
| 2021-05-12 09:53:51 +0200 | <lortabac> | is there a way to hide some identifiers when exporting a module? |
| 2021-05-12 09:55:29 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:55:40 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 09:57:07 +0200 | <[exa]> | lortabac: you mean 'as opposed to listing the identifiers you want exported' ? |
| 2021-05-12 09:57:56 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | if so, then no :) |
| 2021-05-12 09:58:32 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hack would be to make your module a separate, .Internal module, and in the externally-facing module to import your .Internal module hiding some symbols (imports _can_ hide), and then re-export that whole module |
| 2021-05-12 10:01:18 +0200 | evanjs | (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 10:02:05 +0200 | <lortabac> | apparently you can hide them when importing the module and re-export the whole module |
| 2021-05-12 10:02:14 +0200 | <lortabac> | it seems to work |
| 2021-05-12 10:02:41 +0200 | Guest24024 | chomwitt |
| 2021-05-12 10:03:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
| 2021-05-12 10:03:36 +0200 | evanjs | (~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 10:05:26 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 10:05:35 +0200 | ram19890 | (~ram@49.205.82.36) |
| 2021-05-12 10:07:21 +0200 | hendursaga | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 2021-05-12 10:10:21 +0200 | hendursa1 | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:10:30 +0200 | m0rphism | (~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 2021-05-12 10:10:52 +0200 | hendursaga | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 10:10:58 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client") |
| 2021-05-12 10:11:14 +0200 | hendursaga | (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) |
| 2021-05-12 10:14:16 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@p200300ecdf3c5b009ca7d9f9eb7bbe17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 10:15:37 +0200 | pmj | (~pmj@p4fe156fa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 10:16:33 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 10:16:34 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Excess Flood) |
| 2021-05-12 10:17:25 +0200 | sphalerite | (~sphalerit@NixOS/user/lheckemann) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 10:17:41 +0200 | jakalx | (~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) |
| 2021-05-12 10:18:23 +0200 | sphalerite | (~sphalerit@NixOS/user/lheckemann) |
| 2021-05-12 10:21:18 +0200 | <merijn> | ain issue with that is that haddocks will be shit |
| 2021-05-12 10:21:34 +0200 | <merijn> | Better off explicitly listing identifiers |
| 2021-05-12 10:21:59 +0200 | <lortabac> | merijn: good point |
| 2021-05-12 10:23:22 +0200 | thunderrd | (~thunderrd@183.182.115.120) |
| 2021-05-12 10:23:23 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 10:23:23 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Excess Flood) |
| 2021-05-12 10:23:47 +0200 | ggVGc | (~ggVGc@a.lowtech.earth) |
| 2021-05-12 10:23:53 +0200 | whataday | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 10:24:26 +0200 | undvrainbowvita8 | (~egp_@128-71-13-3.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:25:01 +0200 | whataday | (~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) |
| 2021-05-12 10:25:24 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@p200300ecdf3c5b009ca7d9f9eb7bbe17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:27:11 +0200 | plutoniix | (~q@ppp-171-97-98-58.revip8.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:28:02 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 10:28:24 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 10:29:25 +0200 | undvrainbowvita8 | (~egp_@128-71-13-3.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 2021-05-12 10:29:30 +0200 | oxide | (~lambda@unaffiliated/mclaren) |
| 2021-05-12 10:29:32 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) |
| 2021-05-12 10:32:26 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:32:52 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:35:08 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 10:36:24 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2021-05-12 10:36:52 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:36:55 +0200 | joeyh | (joeyh@kitenet.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1+deb1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 10:37:05 +0200 | joeyh | (joeyh@kitenet.net) |
| 2021-05-12 10:37:43 +0200 | undvrainbowvita8 | (~egp_@128-71-13-3.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:38:34 +0200 | LKoen | (~LKoen@5.166.9.109.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2021-05-12 10:38:35 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49) |
| 2021-05-12 10:40:14 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:41:41 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.120.162) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:41:47 +0200 | rdivyanshu | (uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hkzwbomfxvfomdtz) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 10:42:53 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:523e:f300:70f:5849:6a09:4e61) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:43:45 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:523e:f300:f7bd:d435:471d:3982) |
| 2021-05-12 10:44:55 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew) |
| 2021-05-12 10:52:15 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 10:52:15 +0200 | plutoniix | (~q@184.82.203.254) |
| 2021-05-12 10:53:11 +0200 | byorgey | (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:53:11 +0200 | dave_uy | (~david@108.61.193.26) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:53:16 +0200 | bcmiller | (~bm3719@66.42.95.185) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 10:54:16 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2021-05-12 11:02:41 +0200 | zariuq | (~zar@fw1.ciirc.cvut.cz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 11:02:53 +0200 | zariuq | (~zar@fw1.ciirc.cvut.cz) |
| 2021-05-12 11:03:53 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 11:08:03 +0200 | datajerk | (~datajerk@sense.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:08:35 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:09:34 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 11:09:55 +0200 | byorgey | (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) |
| 2021-05-12 11:10:01 +0200 | dave_uy | (~david@108.61.193.26) |
| 2021-05-12 11:10:02 +0200 | bcmiller | (~bm3719@66.42.95.185) |
| 2021-05-12 11:11:17 +0200 | CrazyPython | (~crazypyth@206.214.238.6) |
| 2021-05-12 11:11:24 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 11:12:52 +0200 | datajerk | (~datajerk@sense.net) |
| 2021-05-12 11:15:35 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:19:50 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 11:20:00 +0200 | <kuribas> | why is "try" in a parser considered evil? |
| 2021-05-12 11:20:23 +0200 | abrar | (~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 11:21:17 +0200 | <maerwald> | excessive backtracking? |
| 2021-05-12 11:21:53 +0200 | <maerwald> | can't think of another reason |
| 2021-05-12 11:22:15 +0200 | abrar | (~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2021-05-12 11:23:05 +0200 | <kuribas> | it was about laws not being respected or something... |
| 2021-05-12 11:23:55 +0200 | elfets | (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 2021-05-12 11:25:01 +0200 | machinedgod | (~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) |
| 2021-05-12 11:25:03 +0200 | rond_ | (531cde7e@bmc126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 11:25:45 +0200 | <merijn> | kuribas: Why said it's evil? |
| 2021-05-12 11:26:04 +0200 | <kuribas> | I remember reading it in an article, I don't have the article though... |
| 2021-05-12 11:31:26 +0200 | <maerwald> | kuribas: http://blog.ezyang.com/2014/05/parsec-try-a-or-b-considered-harmful/ |
| 2021-05-12 11:31:29 +0200 | <maerwald> | ? |
| 2021-05-12 11:31:46 +0200 | <kuribas> | maerwald: yeah |
| 2021-05-12 11:31:47 +0200 | <maerwald> | but that's not about laws either |
| 2021-05-12 11:32:16 +0200 | gitgood | (~gitgood@host-78-145-139-64.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 11:33:45 +0200 | <kuribas> | maerwald: I read that somewhere else then |
| 2021-05-12 11:34:00 +0200 | <maerwald> | go find it :p |
| 2021-05-12 11:35:01 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | https://rpeszek.github.io/posts/2021-02-13-alternative.html this one? |
| 2021-05-12 11:35:22 +0200 | <kuribas> | yeah, that one also. |
| 2021-05-12 11:35:28 +0200 | <kuribas> | Although I don't agree with that article. |
| 2021-05-12 11:37:08 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | having try, instead of always backtracking, means things violate the '(f >> mzero) = mzero' law of monadplus |
| 2021-05-12 11:37:45 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | but i think that law is just wrong |
| 2021-05-12 11:37:47 +0200 | <kuribas> | you mean (f >> mzero) == f ? |
| 2021-05-12 11:37:58 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 11:38:19 +0200 | <kuribas> | that's a weird law... |
| 2021-05-12 11:38:39 +0200 | Synthetica | (uid199651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yluktxymatxbguna) |
| 2021-05-12 11:39:01 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | very weird |
| 2021-05-12 11:39:07 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.6.0.1/docs/Control-Monad.html#t:MonadPlus |
| 2021-05-12 11:39:37 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | a bunch of the instances in base violate it too, so i think it's just a mistake |
| 2021-05-12 11:40:34 +0200 | <kuribas> | it only makes sense when f doesn't do any side-effect |
| 2021-05-12 11:42:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | why? |
| 2021-05-12 11:42:46 +0200 | DarkiJah | (~Android@213.237.86.22) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:43:09 +0200 | <kuribas> | maerwald: because mzero didn't do any side-effect, and f did. |
| 2021-05-12 11:43:09 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | launchMissiles >> mzero |
| 2021-05-12 11:43:15 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.46) |
| 2021-05-12 11:43:33 +0200 | <maerwald> | ah, you mean `v >> mzero = mzero` |
| 2021-05-12 11:43:57 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | yes, that one |
| 2021-05-12 11:44:17 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 11:44:48 +0200 | <maerwald> | so IO already violates it? |
| 2021-05-12 11:46:45 +0200 | <maerwald> | hmm, the question is also... are the laws defined for evaluation only? |
| 2021-05-12 11:46:52 +0200 | <Taneb> | Does IO have a MonadPlus instance? |
| 2021-05-12 11:47:21 +0200 | <maerwald> | yes |
| 2021-05-12 11:47:22 +0200 | <merijn> | It does, I think |
| 2021-05-12 11:47:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | but, I guess... if you ignore program execution semantics, the laws kinda hold |
| 2021-05-12 11:48:04 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.46) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:48:23 +0200 | <merijn> | the law is less general than it's written out |
| 2021-05-12 11:48:44 +0200 | <merijn> | it basically just means "all aborts are the same" |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:00 +0200 | <merijn> | It doesn't mean "abort retroactively invalidates things that happened" |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:11 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | in other words it's wrong |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:15 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:22 +0200 | <merijn> | Define wrong |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:37 +0200 | <maerwald> | merijn: well, mzero has no parameters, so it is always the same |
| 2021-05-12 11:49:49 +0200 | <merijn> | "it's using a different equality than the one you're thinking off" |
| 2021-05-12 11:50:07 +0200 | <merijn> | Because people are sloppy and use tons of different equalities implicitly |
| 2021-05-12 11:50:30 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | it's useless if you can't apply it because it uses some mysterious undefined equality |
| 2021-05-12 11:51:32 +0200 | <merijn> | Those aren't even listed as laws, though |
| 2021-05-12 11:51:52 +0200 | <maerwald> | "satisfy the equations" |
| 2021-05-12 11:51:57 +0200 | <Taneb> | "It should also satisfy the equations" makes it sound like they're intended as laws to me |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:00 +0200 | <merijn> | It's just saying MonadPlus shouldn't allow >> and >>= to recover |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:11 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | it's not saying that |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:14 +0200 | <maerwald> | Uniaika: I think we have a documentation task here |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:30 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | there's a bug filed https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/14960 |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:46 +0200 | <Taneb> | The Monad laws are described with the same language |
| 2021-05-12 11:52:59 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 11:53:19 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | you can gesture toward 'v >> mzero is false-ish' or 'can't recover' but parametricity of mzero already tells you that |
| 2021-05-12 11:53:28 +0200 | <maerwald> | right |
| 2021-05-12 11:53:53 +0200 | <merijn> | It doesn't, though |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:00 +0200 | <Uniaika> | hello. |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:20 +0200 | <maerwald> | merijn: be a little more constructive :P ...what should we do? |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:31 +0200 | <Uniaika> | that's easy |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:36 +0200 | <Uniaika> | you open a ticket |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:38 +0200 | <Uniaika> | you assign it to me |
| 2021-05-12 11:55:52 +0200 | <Uniaika> | ideally with how things should be documented but I can do without |
| 2021-05-12 11:56:02 +0200 | <Uniaika> | and you let the Documentation Task Force do its magic |
| 2021-05-12 11:56:08 +0200 | <Uniaika> | good bye |
| 2021-05-12 11:57:10 +0200 | <kuribas> | could we have "recommended laws"? |
| 2021-05-12 11:57:20 +0200 | <kuribas> | Not really laws, but nice to have? |
| 2021-05-12 11:57:35 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 11:57:39 +0200 | <maerwald> | "It would be nice if your function works"? |
| 2021-05-12 11:58:07 +0200 | <merijn> | maerwald: The problem is that people don't agree on what "works" means |
| 2021-05-12 11:58:13 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | parametricity of mzero tells you that '(v >> mzero) >>= f = v >> mzero' |
| 2021-05-12 11:58:20 +0200 | <maerwald> | I think... if an instance has *additional* laws, it can document them in the instance |
| 2021-05-12 11:58:31 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | which is what 'can't recover' means in practice |
| 2021-05-12 11:59:21 +0200 | <ski> | "because mzero didn't do any side-effect" -- `mzero' by definition expresses a non-trivial effect (the absence of an answer) |
| 2021-05-12 12:00:20 +0200 | <maerwald> | so mzero just means "there is failure" |
| 2021-05-12 12:00:28 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | (as long as >>= doesn't do anything which would already violate the monad laws, probably) |
| 2021-05-12 12:00:29 +0200 | Rudd0 | (~Rudd0@185.189.115.103) |
| 2021-05-12 12:00:53 +0200 | <tdammers> | kuribas: laws are recommendations already. the compiler can't enforce them, your code will still compile and run if you violate them, it will just be inconsistent, surprising, unpredictable, or otherwise act strange |
| 2021-05-12 12:01:42 +0200 | <maerwald> | well, then the laws are not violated if you think of it only in terms of equational reasoning without program execution |
| 2021-05-12 12:02:37 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | '(v >> mzero) >>= f = v >> mzero' would probably be a better law than 'v >> mzero = mzero' at least |
| 2021-05-12 12:02:53 +0200 | <kuribas> | agreed |
| 2021-05-12 12:03:47 +0200 | chomwitt | (~alexander@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:39fb:67a3:1f47:16d) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:03:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | MonadZero, the typeclass with laws nobody can agree on. |
| 2021-05-12 12:03:54 +0200 | <ski> | that already holds by associativity, and right absorption |
| 2021-05-12 12:04:03 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Err MonadPlus. |
| 2021-05-12 12:04:20 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | oh yeah so it does |
| 2021-05-12 12:04:54 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | the law is just unnecessary as i thought then |
| 2021-05-12 12:05:19 +0200 | <ski> | @wiki MonadPlus |
| 2021-05-12 12:05:19 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/MonadPlus |
| 2021-05-12 12:05:21 +0200 | <ski> | @wiki MonadPlus_reform_proposal |
| 2021-05-12 12:05:21 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://wiki.haskell.org/MonadPlus_reform_proposal |
| 2021-05-12 12:05:42 +0200 | TimesUp | (57010b6e@host-87-1-11-110.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 2021-05-12 12:06:44 +0200 | <maerwald> | " IO is not even in MonadPlus," |
| 2021-05-12 12:08:46 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:10:52 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 12:12:11 +0200 | <ski> | well, i'm not convinced it should be |
| 2021-05-12 12:12:20 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 12:13:13 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | IO is in MonadPlus now |
| 2021-05-12 12:13:19 +0200 | <ski> | i know |
| 2021-05-12 12:13:43 +0200 | <nshepperd2> | ofc these same issues apply to ExceptT over anything as well |
| 2021-05-12 12:15:44 +0200 | ukari | (~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 12:16:59 +0200 | ukari | (~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) |
| 2021-05-12 12:17:36 +0200 | undvrainbowvita8 | (~egp_@128-71-13-3.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 2021-05-12 12:19:15 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 12:21:01 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.33) |
| 2021-05-12 12:22:34 +0200 | <maerwald> | we could start a "Class law task force" :p |
| 2021-05-12 12:22:50 +0200 | <maerwald> | put it on HF tech track |
| 2021-05-12 12:23:29 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:25:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.33) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:30:20 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 12:30:31 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 12:30:58 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50081adf5bfe676b3d2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 12:32:18 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 12:32:18 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 12:32:18 +0200 | mouseghost | (~draco@wikipedia/desperek) |
| 2021-05-12 12:34:12 +0200 | plutoniix | (~q@184.82.203.254) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 12:34:33 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:35:42 +0200 | Guest234 | (~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-010d-5dbc-e6e6-cd09.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 12:36:37 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:39:18 +0200 | <siers> | I'm trying ghc -threaded && ./ +RTS -N8, but with ghc -threaded -O I don't see CPU high usage any more |
| 2021-05-12 12:39:44 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 12:40:24 +0200 | __monty__ | (~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) |
| 2021-05-12 12:44:11 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:44:38 +0200 | pmj | (~pmj@p4fe156fa.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 12:50:35 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 12:51:06 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 12:51:09 +0200 | lemmih | (~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:defd:a00a:733d:f00a) |
| 2021-05-12 12:55:06 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:55:08 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.202) |
| 2021-05-12 12:55:52 +0200 | <siers> | for this cycle wasting program http://sprunge.us/ubbaBZ |
| 2021-05-12 12:57:47 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 12:58:43 +0200 | Alleria | (~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org) |
| 2021-05-12 12:59:08 +0200 | Alleria | Guest9827 |
| 2021-05-12 12:59:28 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.128.210.178) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 12:59:41 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 12:59:48 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | siers: what do you see instead? |
| 2021-05-12 13:00:52 +0200 | zaquest | (~notzaques@5.128.210.178) |
| 2021-05-12 13:01:20 +0200 | vgtw_ | (~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) |
| 2021-05-12 13:01:52 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | okay I see the same, it uses one core only |
| 2021-05-12 13:01:57 +0200 | vgtw | (~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:01:58 +0200 | vgtw_ | vgtw |
| 2021-05-12 13:02:02 +0200 | puke | (~vroom@217.138.252.196) |
| 2021-05-12 13:02:19 +0200 | vgtw | (~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 13:02:33 +0200 | vgtw | (~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) |
| 2021-05-12 13:02:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:03:36 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:03:49 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 13:03:50 +0200 | <siers> | yup |
| 2021-05-12 13:04:03 +0200 | dcoutts_ | (~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net) |
| 2021-05-12 13:05:42 +0200 | Xnuk | (~xnuk@45.76.202.58) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 13:06:01 +0200 | Xnuk | (~xnuk@vultr.xnu.kr) |
| 2021-05-12 13:08:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:09:24 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:12:08 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 13:14:26 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:14:53 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:15:19 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | I think the problem is that your cycle-spinning function does not perform any allocations, so there are no points where the scheduler can step in and yield the computation to a different thread |
| 2021-05-12 13:15:54 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | this is not based on any knowledge of the RTS internals, but in the past I've played briefly with these parallel combinators and found out that stuff starts acting very strangely when your worker computations perform no allocations |
| 2021-05-12 13:16:12 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:16:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | for example: adding {-# NOINLINE tl #-} fixes the behaviour with -O |
| 2021-05-12 13:19:46 +0200 | <siers> | ok, new wasting algo: http://sprunge.us/icSqSP |
| 2021-05-12 13:19:51 +0200 | <siers> | this one works as expected |
| 2021-05-12 13:20:00 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | siers: this does work for me https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LXrSEv3l |
| 2021-05-12 13:20:04 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:20:14 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | lol or that |
| 2021-05-12 13:21:00 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:21:06 +0200 | <siers> | :) ok, main point is we know why |
| 2021-05-12 13:21:18 +0200 | <siers> | back to work 😅 |
| 2021-05-12 13:21:28 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | (I _think_ it works this way) |
| 2021-05-12 13:21:51 +0200 | rprije | (~rprije@110-174-108-199.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 13:22:06 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 13:26:53 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:26:57 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 13:27:33 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:30:38 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:31:24 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:31:53 +0200 | darjeeling_ | (~darjeelin@122.245.120.162) |
| 2021-05-12 13:32:01 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:32:35 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 13:34:21 +0200 | rayyyy | (~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 13:35:28 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:40:11 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 13:46:45 +0200 | <Cajun> | how can i go about installing all dependencies of a project as libraries? ive tried using `cabal install --only-dependencies` but GHC wont use those during compilation and still complains they dont exist. when i install them individually with --lib, it works fine. ive had issues using `cabal install --only-dependencies --lib` and am curious if |
| 2021-05-12 13:46:45 +0200 | <Cajun> | there is an alternative. here is the command output https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vt6MCFSR |
| 2021-05-12 13:47:50 +0200 | <siers> | tomsmeding, I should be able to parallelly compute sparks from [IO a], with parList . sequence? |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:18 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | siers: IO is strict, so sequence evaluates the returned values of the monad computations in the list to WHNF |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | meaning that 'sequence' will already compute the values sequentially, so parList won't have anything to do anymore |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:47 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % import Debug.Trace |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:48 +0200 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:57 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | % sequence [trace "hi" (return ()), trace "by" (return ())] >> putStrLn "ok" |
| 2021-05-12 13:49:58 +0200 | <yahb> | tomsmeding: hi; by; ok |
| 2021-05-12 13:50:46 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | hm that might not be a great test |
| 2021-05-12 13:50:59 +0200 | <siers> | you're probably right though |
| 2021-05-12 13:51:01 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 13:51:19 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) |
| 2021-05-12 13:52:31 +0200 | patjameson | (~patjameso@139.28.218.148) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 13:53:14 +0200 | urodna | (~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) |
| 2021-05-12 13:55:04 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 13:55:09 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 13:56:20 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 13:56:34 +0200 | <maerwald> | Cajun: try `cabal v1-install`, which has that legacy behavior... however, generally you don't want that but use environments |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:32 +0200 | <maerwald> | --lib in v2 isn't that much used, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are bugs |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:36 +0200 | rodriga | (~quassel@134.204.25.66) |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:53 +0200 | <ski> | % let sequenceInterleaveIO :: [IO a] -> IO [a]; sequenceInterleaveIO acts0 = unsafeInterleaveIO case acts0 of [] -> pure []; act:acts -> liftA2 (:) act (sequenceInterleaveIO acts) |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:53 +0200 | <yahb> | ski: |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:57 +0200 | <ski> | % do us0 <- sequenceInterleaveIO [trace "foo" (pure ()),trace "bar" (pure ())]; trace "baz" case us0 of _:us1 -> trace "quux" case us1 of _:us2 -> trace "frob" case us2 of [] -> pure () |
| 2021-05-12 13:57:57 +0200 | <yahb> | ski: baz; foo; quux; bar; frob |
| 2021-05-12 13:58:12 +0200 | <Cajun> | maerwald: so is using `cabal run <PRGM NAME>` and compiling it with flags via the .cabal file a safer option? im new to using any hs package manager |
| 2021-05-12 13:58:55 +0200 | <maerwald> | you can also put flags in cabal.project or cabal.project.local |
| 2021-05-12 13:59:15 +0200 | <ski> | siers : although, i guess you wanted them to be independent, so `fmap parList . mapM unsafeInterleaveIO' would be better |
| 2021-05-12 13:59:20 +0200 | <maerwald> | Cajun: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/cabal-project.html |
| 2021-05-12 13:59:26 +0200 | <ski> | (fsvo "better") |
| 2021-05-12 13:59:45 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:02:17 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 14:06:28 +0200 | rond_ | (531cde7e@bmc126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 14:06:48 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 14:11:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:15:33 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 14:17:43 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:18:12 +0200 | berberman | (~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) |
| 2021-05-12 14:19:09 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:19:28 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:19:46 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:20:29 +0200 | cr3 | (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 14:21:33 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 2021-05-12 14:21:55 +0200 | <nut> | will cabal build search recursively all .cabal file inside a folder? |
| 2021-05-12 14:22:20 +0200 | <nut> | and run every .cabal file? |
| 2021-05-12 14:26:01 +0200 | mrchampion | (~mrchampio@38.18.109.23) |
| 2021-05-12 14:26:19 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 14:26:42 +0200 | MMM23 | (~MMM23@197.253.207.68) |
| 2021-05-12 14:27:10 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:27:30 +0200 | <statusfailed> | Has anyone seen big-O notation with commas before? |
| 2021-05-12 14:27:36 +0200 | <statusfailed> | e.g., O(m, n) |
| 2021-05-12 14:28:57 +0200 | <[exa]> | there are some proofs that use it as a function this way but I find it ugly |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:09 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | (usually graph-theoretic ones) |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:38 +0200 | <hpc> | is that supposed to be m+n or m*n? |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:44 +0200 | <statusfailed> | ^ yea that's my question :D |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:46 +0200 | <hpc> | or are these algorithms in a universe with two time dimensions? :P |
| 2021-05-12 14:29:47 +0200 | MMM23 | (~MMM23@197.253.207.68) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 14:30:04 +0200 | <statusfailed> | [exa]: I thought it might be max(m, n) too, but not sure |
| 2021-05-12 14:32:04 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 14:32:18 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 2021-05-12 14:32:28 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 14:33:55 +0200 | gxt | (~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 14:34:28 +0200 | gxt | (~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) |
| 2021-05-12 14:34:52 +0200 | <mupf> | Because it might be relevant to some people in here: https://twitter.com/mupfelofen/status/1392363905423486979?s=19 |
| 2021-05-12 14:36:15 +0200 | xcmw | (~textual@cpe-69-133-55-43.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 14:38:21 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:38:43 +0200 | LKoen_ | (~LKoen@5.166.9.109.rev.sfr.net) |
| 2021-05-12 14:39:45 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 14:40:51 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.85) |
| 2021-05-12 14:40:55 +0200 | LKoen | (~LKoen@5.166.9.109.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:40:58 +0200 | xkapastel | (uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tetrcihgsohjyxmd) |
| 2021-05-12 14:43:29 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:43:52 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:45:19 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.85) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:45:21 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) |
| 2021-05-12 14:46:31 +0200 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:46:33 +0200 | carlomagno | (~cararell@148.87.23.8) |
| 2021-05-12 14:46:48 +0200 | Lord_of_Life_ | Lord_of_Life |
| 2021-05-12 14:47:03 +0200 | <[exa]> | statusfailed: mind linking the source? |
| 2021-05-12 14:47:41 +0200 | <merijn> | it's been 3 years already? |
| 2021-05-12 14:48:28 +0200 | hyperisco | (~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) |
| 2021-05-12 14:50:46 +0200 | cr3 | (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:51:05 +0200 | gawen_ | gawen |
| 2021-05-12 14:51:15 +0200 | <statusfailed> | [exa]: original is here: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/355791.355796 |
| 2021-05-12 14:51:16 +0200 | <statusfailed> | but it's paywalled |
| 2021-05-12 14:54:37 +0200 | pjb | Guest15098 |
| 2021-05-12 14:55:08 +0200 | <[exa]> | I got it from one nice website with ravens |
| 2021-05-12 14:55:28 +0200 | <statusfailed> | hehehe |
| 2021-05-12 14:55:31 +0200 | Guest15098 | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50081adf5bfe676b3d2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:55:40 +0200 | <merijn> | Google Scholar is good at turning up free pdfs too |
| 2021-05-12 14:56:23 +0200 | Sheilong | (uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icphufxyhvaabbaa) |
| 2021-05-12 14:56:42 +0200 | <statusfailed> | [exa]: I assume the O(p, r, NA, N) bit has to mean either maximum or sum of those, because N is "the number of nontrivial multiplications"- if it's product then surely this algorithm is like O(n^6) worst case |
| 2021-05-12 14:56:44 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 14:56:46 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 14:57:22 +0200 | <[exa]> | yeah sounds like + or `max` would fit there best in any cases |
| 2021-05-12 14:57:34 +0200 | <[exa]> | kinda like O(a,b,c) = O(a)+O(b)+O(c) |
| 2021-05-12 14:58:02 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50000c73363e6fc8935.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 14:58:19 +0200 | <[exa]> | but man, can't they just write + |
| 2021-05-12 15:00:51 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 15:00:59 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:02:41 +0200 | <statusfailed> | [exa]: ikr :D |
| 2021-05-12 15:02:48 +0200 | <statusfailed> | 1978 though, maybe it was the done thing :) |
| 2021-05-12 15:02:53 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) |
| 2021-05-12 15:02:59 +0200 | st8less | (~st8less@inet-167-224-197-181.isp.ozarksgo.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 15:04:21 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 15:04:57 +0200 | alx741 | (~alx741@186.178.109.110) |
| 2021-05-12 15:05:48 +0200 | hoppfull | (55e07729@c-2977e055.19-9-64736c10.bbcust.telenor.se) |
| 2021-05-12 15:07:50 +0200 | hoppfull | (55e07729@c-2977e055.19-9-64736c10.bbcust.telenor.se) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 15:08:26 +0200 | alexander | (~alexander@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:39fb:67a3:1f47:16d) |
| 2021-05-12 15:08:55 +0200 | alexander | Guest4454 |
| 2021-05-12 15:10:37 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Excess Flood) |
| 2021-05-12 15:11:25 +0200 | stef204 | (~stef204@unaffiliated/stef-204/x-384198) |
| 2021-05-12 15:12:04 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 15:15:35 +0200 | Guest4454 | (~alexander@2a02:587:dc0a:2700:39fb:67a3:1f47:16d) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:15:50 +0200 | st8less | (~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:e37e:d5f2:9e75:29eb) |
| 2021-05-12 15:16:40 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 15:18:03 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 15:18:45 +0200 | chomwitt | (~alexander@ppp-2-85-245-254.home.otenet.gr) |
| 2021-05-12 15:20:31 +0200 | bitdex | (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 15:21:31 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:22:36 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50000c73363e6fc8935.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 15:24:41 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2021-05-12 15:25:06 +0200 | m1dnight_ | (~m1dnight@188.ip-51-91-158.eu) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4) |
| 2021-05-12 15:25:26 +0200 | m1dnight_ | (~m1dnight@188.ip-51-91-158.eu) |
| 2021-05-12 15:29:34 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:29:51 +0200 | TimesUp | (57010b6e@host-87-1-11-110.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 15:30:47 +0200 | elliott_ | (~elliott_@pool-108-18-30-46.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:31:09 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:33:15 +0200 | andreas303 | (~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 15:33:36 +0200 | howdoi | (uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnlzmngtivqzgqpc) |
| 2021-05-12 15:34:05 +0200 | andreas303 | (~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303) |
| 2021-05-12 15:34:14 +0200 | viluon | (uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mitaxlcfeovagyrl) |
| 2021-05-12 15:35:22 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:35:46 +0200 | hypercube | (~hypercube@75.186.121.128) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:38:16 +0200 | st8less | (~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:e37e:d5f2:9e75:29eb) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:39:20 +0200 | st8less | (~st8less@inet-167-224-197-181.isp.ozarksgo.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:40:43 +0200 | Gurkenglas | (~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) |
| 2021-05-12 15:44:33 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:45:36 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) |
| 2021-05-12 15:46:22 +0200 | carlomagno | (~cararell@148.87.23.8) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:46:43 +0200 | carlomagno | (~cararell@148.87.23.8) |
| 2021-05-12 15:46:55 +0200 | bobbytables | (~bobbytabl@ec2-44-224-191-138.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:48:47 +0200 | bobbytables | (~bobbytabl@ec2-44-224-191-138.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 15:49:07 +0200 | s00pcan | (~chris@107.181.165.217) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 15:50:45 +0200 | s00pcan | (~chris@075-133-056-178.res.spectrum.com) |
| 2021-05-12 15:51:26 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 15:52:13 +0200 | <cheater> | i have a list of monadic values, [m a] and i'd like to force all of them to compute but i only want to keep the last a. how do i do that? |
| 2021-05-12 15:52:57 +0200 | <merijn> | :t foldl1 (>>) |
| 2021-05-12 15:52:58 +0200 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m a |
| 2021-05-12 15:53:20 +0200 | <cheater> | thanks |
| 2021-05-12 15:53:21 +0200 | <ski> | s/force/execute/ |
| 2021-05-12 15:54:11 +0200 | <ski> | (or perhaps s/force/cause/ with s/compute/execute/ ..) |
| 2021-05-12 15:54:41 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:55:24 +0200 | <cheater> | ski: i need to make sure they don't get wished away by the compiler. |
| 2021-05-12 15:55:37 +0200 | <cheater> | i need to make sure those computations actually run on the hardware. |
| 2021-05-12 15:56:03 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: The compiler doesn't wish things away |
| 2021-05-12 15:56:14 +0200 | <cheater> | you know what i mean. laziness. |
| 2021-05-12 15:56:26 +0200 | Iceland_jack | (~user@95.147.45.92) |
| 2021-05-12 15:56:34 +0200 | <merijn> | laziness is orthogonal to monadic effects |
| 2021-05-12 15:56:59 +0200 | <cheater> | :/ |
| 2021-05-12 15:57:00 +0200 | jao | (~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao) |
| 2021-05-12 15:57:17 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.189) |
| 2021-05-12 15:57:35 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50010052b303219aac8.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 15:57:50 +0200 | <cheater> | confused |
| 2021-05-12 15:57:53 +0200 | <merijn> | You can only observe side-effects and >> for IO enforces their ordering and observability |
| 2021-05-12 15:58:22 +0200 | <cheater> | yeah that doesn't help me |
| 2021-05-12 15:58:30 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: My point was: laziness is irrelevant for the observability of side-effects (unless you're using unsafeX, which is on you) |
| 2021-05-12 15:58:39 +0200 | <cheater> | i have a monadic value which i want to run 1000 times for a benchmark. |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:01 +0200 | <cheater> | i still have no idea what you're saying |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:03 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: oh, that problem has an even simpler solution |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:07 +0200 | <merijn> | @hackage criterion |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:08 +0200 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/criterion |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:11 +0200 | <cheater> | no |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:53 +0200 | <cheater> | that doesn't work for me |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:53 +0200 | Sgeo | (~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 15:59:56 +0200 | <cheater> | i need to do this by hand |
| 2021-05-12 16:00:20 +0200 | <cheater> | this is inside the monad from the accelerate library |
| 2021-05-12 16:00:40 +0200 | <cheater> | it takes ages to upload data onto the gpu and then the computation happens. i want to measure the computation itself, not the upload time. |
| 2021-05-12 16:00:56 +0200 | bahamas | (~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) |
| 2021-05-12 16:00:57 +0200 | <cheater> | however, all of that is performed as a single IO action. |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:11 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: well, then you're hosed |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:22 +0200 | <cheater> | please be nice |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:23 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:26 +0200 | <cheater> | my day is crap as it is |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:31 +0200 | <merijn> | No, I'm serious |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:39 +0200 | <cheater> | no. you're not. |
| 2021-05-12 16:01:45 +0200 | <merijn> | Benchmarking stuff like that is really tricky and there is no quick and simple solution |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:02 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.189) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:07 +0200 | <cheater> | so rather than talk about criterion let's go back to what i was originally trying to do |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:08 +0200 | <cheater> | which is |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:13 +0200 | <merijn> | You'll have to pry apart the accelerate single IO action into something you can splice timings into |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:15 +0200 | <cheater> | make 1000 copies of a monadic action run |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:19 +0200 | <cheater> | lol, no |
| 2021-05-12 16:02:28 +0200 | <cheater> | i'll just run the thing so many times that the upload time is insignificant |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:02 +0200 | <merijn> | Yeah, but getting the compiler to actually run trivial loops like that multiple times is not easy |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:02 +0200 | <exarkun> | cheater: Why don't you just subtract the upload time |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:06 +0200 | <cheater> | or i can run it 1000, 2000, and 3000 x, look at the wall times, and curve fit the cost of just the computation. |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:16 +0200 | <cheater> | exarkun: the upload time cannot be measured separately from the computation. |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:20 +0200 | <exarkun> | cheater: Sure it can |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:26 +0200 | <exarkun> | You control the computation right? |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:36 +0200 | <cheater> | what's your idea? |
| 2021-05-12 16:03:57 +0200 | <exarkun> | Upload a basically-free computation. Maybe repeat it a lot of times to get the distribution. |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:00 +0200 | <cheater> | just change the computation? |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:09 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: by "hosed" I meant "you will have to do a lot of manual effort to ensure the compiler doesn't defeat your logic and actually run it 1000 times" |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:16 +0200 | <exarkun> | Now you know what an upload costs, right? |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:19 +0200 | <cheater> | a single computation will get hidden in the noise |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:25 +0200 | <merijn> | exarkun: Not really |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:27 +0200 | <exarkun> | Where does the noise come from? |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:33 +0200 | <merijn> | Data transfer to GPU is rather noisy |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:45 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: nvidia gpu? |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:48 +0200 | <cheater> | yes |
| 2021-05-12 16:04:50 +0200 | <cheater> | it's a T4 |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:00 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: Here's an entirely different idea |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:06 +0200 | <cheater> | i'm comparing against the cpu backend (accelerate allows both) |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:08 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: Run your code inside nvprof? |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:21 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: nvprof can time actual kernel invocations |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:23 +0200 | <cheater> | never heard of that. what would that do? |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:33 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: It's nvidia's profiling tool |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:44 +0200 | <cheater> | ok, and what does it tell me? |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:45 +0200 | <exarkun> | People can extract the signal that comes from the difference between memcmp looking at 4 bytes instead of 8 bytes in JavaScript over the public internet |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:52 +0200 | <cheater> | not sure how to run it , let me look |
| 2021-05-12 16:05:53 +0200 | <exarkun> | Does transfer to a GPU have more noise than that? |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:09 +0200 | <cheater> | exarkun: that's an interesting idea, but i'll try other approaches first. |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:18 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: Well, I mostly work with handwritten CUDA, but presumably accelerate just generates CUDA/openCL kernels |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:31 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: nvprof tracks kernel launches (and finishing) in the driver |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:40 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: So you bypass the host code entirely in your measurements |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:44 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/profiler-users-guide/index.html |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:48 +0200 | <cheater> | merijn: what it does is it invokes llvm at runtime to compile its program into cuda, and then runs that. |
| 2021-05-12 16:06:58 +0200 | <cheater> | i'm not sure if nvprof will catch that out |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:05 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: Sure it will |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:08 +0200 | <cheater> | ok |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:15 +0200 | <cheater> | let me try that then |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:18 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: It can't bypass the nvidia driver in the kernel |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:26 +0200 | <cheater> | *shrug* yeah |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:32 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: That's the only way to talk to the GPU and nvprof interacts with the driver |
| 2021-05-12 16:07:52 +0200 | larsan1 | (~larsan@37.120.211.188) |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:05 +0200 | <merijn> | cheater: Can't hurt to try anyway, at worst you spend 10 minutes and it fails, at best it saves you hours of coding :p |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:06 +0200 | <cheater> | so what, just nvprov my-binary ? |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:34 +0200 | <cheater> | hmm yeah that's nice |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:41 +0200 | <cheater> | that actually did a thing |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:49 +0200 | <merijn> | \o/ |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:52 +0200 | <cheater> | however |
| 2021-05-12 16:08:58 +0200 | <cheater> | i'm not sure how to measure the cpu then |
| 2021-05-12 16:09:05 +0200 | <cheater> | because the same tool does not exist for the cpu backend. |
| 2021-05-12 16:09:13 +0200 | <cheater> | so i'm back to square one on that. |
| 2021-05-12 16:10:38 +0200 | nineonine | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) |
| 2021-05-12 16:12:59 +0200 | kidbuu | (~Thunderbi@116.40.185.87) |
| 2021-05-12 16:13:00 +0200 | <cheater> | i wish accelerate had a LiftIO of some sort |
| 2021-05-12 16:13:03 +0200 | <cheater> | but it doesn't seem to |
| 2021-05-12 16:13:57 +0200 | nineonin_ | (~nineonine@2604:3d08:777e:900:e4fe:87c8:c43b:fc90) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:18:19 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) |
| 2021-05-12 16:19:43 +0200 | LKoen_ | (~LKoen@5.166.9.109.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”) |
| 2021-05-12 16:21:19 +0200 | <cheater> | ah, crap. the thing i thought was a monad isn't a monad. |
| 2021-05-12 16:21:30 +0200 | <cheater> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/accelerate-1.3.0.0/docs/Data-Array-Accelerate.html#t:Acc |
| 2021-05-12 16:21:48 +0200 | waleee-cl | (uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqrlgrprcnuqmtaa) |
| 2021-05-12 16:24:22 +0200 | dvdp73 | (59736826@38.104.115.89.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 2021-05-12 16:25:07 +0200 | kritzefitz | (~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 16:30:47 +0200 | nerdypepper | (znc@152.67.162.71) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:31:04 +0200 | cr3 | (~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 16:31:12 +0200 | Shuppiluliuma | (~shuppilul@153.33.68.161) |
| 2021-05-12 16:34:47 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 16:37:47 +0200 | ddellac__ | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 16:38:41 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:40:11 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:41:01 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:41:22 +0200 | Shuppiluliuma | (~shuppilul@153.33.68.161) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:42:06 +0200 | ddellac__ | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:44:15 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 16:44:41 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 16:45:59 +0200 | nerdypepper | (znc@152.67.162.71) |
| 2021-05-12 16:48:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:48:13 +0200 | <mupf> | merijn: yes, three years to the day. |
| 2021-05-12 16:49:37 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:49:53 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:50:26 +0200 | Franciman | (~francesco@host-79-13-131-112.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 2021-05-12 16:50:34 +0200 | <Franciman> | Hi, is there any arm build for cabal? |
| 2021-05-12 16:51:53 +0200 | auri_ | (~admin@fsf/memeber/auri-) |
| 2021-05-12 16:52:11 +0200 | <siraben> | Can someone clarify what the difference is between deep/shallow embedding of DSLs? |
| 2021-05-12 16:52:14 +0200 | <siraben> | and which kind is tagless-final? |
| 2021-05-12 16:52:38 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166.cable.tpia.cipherkey.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:52:42 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:53:22 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 16:54:08 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/people/jeremy.gibbons/publications/embedding-short.pdf |
| 2021-05-12 16:55:10 +0200 | <cheater> | tomsmeding: hey are you around? :) |
| 2021-05-12 16:56:34 +0200 | <siraben> | dminuoso: thanks |
| 2021-05-12 16:58:06 +0200 | johannes_ | (~johannes@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 16:58:23 +0200 | <maerwald> | Franciman: yes |
| 2021-05-12 16:58:32 +0200 | <maerwald> | Franciman: ghcup already has it |
| 2021-05-12 16:58:42 +0200 | anandprabhu | (~AnandPrab@94.202.236.255) |
| 2021-05-12 16:58:51 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 16:59:13 +0200 | <maerwald> | https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghcup/unofficial-bindists/cabal/3.4.0.0/ |
| 2021-05-12 16:59:37 +0200 | <maerwald> | aarch64 is here https://downloads.haskell.org/~cabal/cabal-install-3.4.0.0/ |
| 2021-05-12 17:01:05 +0200 | solidus-river | (~mike@174.127.249.180) |
| 2021-05-12 17:01:05 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:02:48 +0200 | isovector | (~isovector@172.103.216.166) |
| 2021-05-12 17:03:07 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) |
| 2021-05-12 17:05:13 +0200 | boxscape | (54a350dc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.80.220) |
| 2021-05-12 17:05:35 +0200 | <tomsmeding> | cheater: meetings meetings I'll be there in a little while |
| 2021-05-12 17:06:05 +0200 | <cheater> | tomsmeding: thanks. i'm stuck on something stupid :) |
| 2021-05-12 17:06:48 +0200 | kidbuu | (~Thunderbi@116.40.185.87) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:08:15 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:09:09 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:04 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:11 +0200 | <Franciman> | OHOH maerwald thanks a lot |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:12 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:15 +0200 | <Franciman> | I am stupid |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:21 +0200 | <Franciman> | I didn't know aarch64 -> arm |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:27 +0200 | <Franciman> | sorry |
| 2021-05-12 17:10:30 +0200 | <Franciman> | thank you very much |
| 2021-05-12 17:11:10 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 17:12:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 17:12:50 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 17:13:24 +0200 | chele | (~chele@78.128.94.174) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 17:16:45 +0200 | snowflake_ | (~snowflake@gateway/tor-sasl/snowflake) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:17:11 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:17:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 17:17:55 +0200 | abhixec | (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 17:17:58 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 17:18:14 +0200 | snowflake | (~snowflake@gateway/tor-sasl/snowflake) |
| 2021-05-12 17:19:00 +0200 | Unhammer | (~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) |
| 2021-05-12 17:19:08 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 17:20:23 +0200 | bahamas | (~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 17:22:41 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:24:14 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:25:33 +0200 | tzh | (~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 17:31:08 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:32:33 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@2607:fb90:7bc4:5936:6dbb:f322:269c:ab90) |
| 2021-05-12 17:32:41 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 17:34:04 +0200 | rembo10 | (~rembo10@wally.codeshy.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
| 2021-05-12 17:34:16 +0200 | nut | (~nut@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 17:36:00 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 17:36:08 +0200 | plutoniix | (~q@node-uom.pool-125-24.dynamic.totinternet.net) |
| 2021-05-12 17:39:44 +0200 | rembo10 | (~rembo10@wally.codeshy.com) |
| 2021-05-12 17:42:03 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 17:42:26 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 17:42:41 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:45:50 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 17:46:13 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.85) |
| 2021-05-12 17:50:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.85) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:51:46 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) |
| 2021-05-12 17:53:15 +0200 | CuPenguin | (~CuPenguin@207.38.239.235) |
| 2021-05-12 17:54:10 +0200 | dvdp73 | (59736826@38.104.115.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 17:54:47 +0200 | CuPenguin | (~CuPenguin@207.38.239.235) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 17:54:56 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 2021-05-12 17:54:57 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) |
| 2021-05-12 17:56:50 +0200 | Guest87676 | (~laudiacay@45.162.228.190) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 17:57:42 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 17:58:30 +0200 | CuPenguin | (~CuPenguin@207.38.239.235) |
| 2021-05-12 18:00:07 +0200 | coeus | (~coeus@p200300d0270e5d005047ffeaff29ea8d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:01:14 +0200 | Deide | (~Deide@217.155.19.23) |
| 2021-05-12 18:01:48 +0200 | is_null | (~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null) |
| 2021-05-12 18:01:57 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:04:06 +0200 | MidAutumnHotaru | (~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:04:36 +0200 | Franciman | (~francesco@host-79-13-131-112.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 18:04:58 +0200 | ep1ctetus | (~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:05:12 +0200 | john2gb0 | (~john2gb@94-225-47-8.access.telenet.be) |
| 2021-05-12 18:05:16 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 2021-05-12 18:06:12 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:06:33 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 2021-05-12 18:07:38 +0200 | horatiohb | (~horatiohb@165.227.100.221) |
| 2021-05-12 18:09:42 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 18:10:33 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:10:56 +0200 | Iceland_jack | (~user@95.147.45.92) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:11:05 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:11:12 +0200 | cfricke | (~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:11:48 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) |
| 2021-05-12 18:13:03 +0200 | coeus | (~coeus@p200300d027185300a972ce3c629dc872.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 18:14:17 +0200 | Iceland_jack | (~user@95.147.45.92) |
| 2021-05-12 18:14:46 +0200 | jgt_ | (~jgt@92-247-237-116.spectrumnet.bg) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 18:15:00 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:15:56 +0200 | chris__ | (~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:16:39 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50010052b303219aac8.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 18:16:58 +0200 | d0liver | (sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bukxdaptkmbbznsf) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:16:58 +0200 | crtschin | (~crtschin@2604:a880:800:10::3126:f001) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:17:04 +0200 | nut | (~nut@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:17:10 +0200 | crtschin | (~crtschin@2604:a880:800:10::3126:f001) |
| 2021-05-12 18:17:48 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 18:18:46 +0200 | d0liver | (sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uorggmzqszfdbvwp) |
| 2021-05-12 18:20:50 +0200 | jlamothe | (~jlamothe@198.251.57.81) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 18:22:44 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:23:21 +0200 | boxscape | (54a350dc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.80.220) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:23:54 +0200 | eacameron | (uid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxawmwxofpaehxur) |
| 2021-05-12 18:24:46 +0200 | elfets | (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:25:39 +0200 | justanotheruser | (~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) |
| 2021-05-12 18:25:48 +0200 | anandprabhu | (~AnandPrab@94.202.236.255) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 18:26:32 +0200 | malumore_ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:26:51 +0200 | jlamothe | (~jlamothe@198.251.57.81) |
| 2021-05-12 18:26:51 +0200 | malumore_ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) |
| 2021-05-12 18:28:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:28:46 +0200 | ByronJohnson | (~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:29:08 +0200 | Tene | (~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:31:45 +0200 | ddellaco_ | (~ddellacos@2607:fb90:7bc4:5936:6dbb:f322:269c:ab90) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:32:51 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 18:34:13 +0200 | fresheyeball | (~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:35:28 +0200 | ByronJohnson | (~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0) |
| 2021-05-12 18:35:53 +0200 | Tene | (~tene@mail.digitalkingdom.org) |
| 2021-05-12 18:35:53 +0200 | Tene | (~tene@mail.digitalkingdom.org) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 18:35:53 +0200 | Tene | (~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 2021-05-12 18:38:34 +0200 | nineonine | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 18:39:11 +0200 | nineonine | (~nineonine@50.216.62.2) |
| 2021-05-12 18:39:33 +0200 | ozzymcduff | (~textual@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 2021-05-12 18:40:30 +0200 | m_shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.59.168) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:41:14 +0200 | cortexauth | (~cortexaut@2409:4053:780:374a:c0f9:7924:2e2c:978d) |
| 2021-05-12 18:41:15 +0200 | cortexauth | (~cortexaut@2409:4053:780:374a:c0f9:7924:2e2c:978d) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 18:42:32 +0200 | hatds | (~HAL@c-107-4-136-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:44:01 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:44:19 +0200 | m_shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.59.168) |
| 2021-05-12 18:44:34 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 18:46:41 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 18:46:45 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:48:08 +0200 | dariof4 | (~dario@178.249.202.150) |
| 2021-05-12 18:49:20 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 18:49:38 +0200 | ddellac__ | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 18:49:56 +0200 | <hatds> | Where does cabal expect to find (static) C libraries that it is told to link when compiling a package from hackage? Is it the same place ghc expects to find libraries? The documentation only talks about sending paths with -l and -L, etc., but what are the default locations searched? (and is there a best practice location on windows to put random C-libs I'm downloading off the internet to get some-random-package to run?) |
| 2021-05-12 18:50:15 +0200 | pjb | (~pjb@2a01cb04063ec50010052b303219aac8.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 18:54:28 +0200 | ddellac__ | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 18:54:56 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:692a:95b:a9cd:2f9) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 18:55:58 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:9d88:fa76:8cb0:666d) |
| 2021-05-12 18:58:21 +0200 | <geekosaur> | ghc will look where the C compiler looks by default. afaik that is only well defined on unixlikes, not on windows |
| 2021-05-12 18:58:31 +0200 | Kaiepi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 18:58:32 +0200 | Kaeipi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-12 18:59:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | although f you're using mingw it should be its /usr/lib |
| 2021-05-12 18:59:46 +0200 | <cheater> | hatds: on linux it's set by the linker config in /etc. |
| 2021-05-12 19:00:02 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Also consider using pkgconfig-depends, hatds |
| 2021-05-12 19:00:43 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 19:00:50 +0200 | yoneda | (~mike@193.206.102.122) (Quit: leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 19:01:25 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:02:47 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 19:03:38 +0200 | <hatds> | thanks all (@geekosaur, @cheater, @dminuoso). So what do haskellers on windows generally do when they download packages that contain C dependencies.. give full paths to cabal everytime they install something? |
| 2021-05-12 19:03:52 +0200 | <cheater> | idk i would like to know as well |
| 2021-05-12 19:03:55 +0200 | <cheater> | are you using llvm on windows btw? |
| 2021-05-12 19:04:00 +0200 | <hatds> | no |
| 2021-05-12 19:04:08 +0200 | <cheater> | ok. because it's broken. |
| 2021-05-12 19:04:30 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Dunno, does pkgconf work on windows? |
| 2021-05-12 19:04:43 +0200 | <geekosaur> | with mingw, yes |
| 2021-05-12 19:04:55 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/mesonbuild/meson/issues/4029 |
| 2021-05-12 19:05:01 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Heh, this looks like *quite* a journey |
| 2021-05-12 19:05:09 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:05:13 +0200 | <geekosaur> | if there's a native build that uses msc somewhere, that isn't guaranteed to use anything |
| 2021-05-12 19:05:44 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 2021-05-12 19:05:51 +0200 | <hatds> | pkgconf... I've seen some packages use that in their cabal file somewhere, but I'm installing something that is not my package... don't really want to manually edit the project to rely on pkgconf and figure out the right incantions for that |
| 2021-05-12 19:08:34 +0200 | jpds | (~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:09:16 +0200 | <dminuoso> | hatds: on linux thats the point of pkg-conf, it just works automagically most of the time |
| 2021-05-12 19:09:19 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 19:09:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | https://github.com/k0001/hs-libsodium/blob/master/libsodium/libsodium.cabal#L22 |
| 2021-05-12 19:10:12 +0200 | <geekosaur> | well behaved packages install .pc files for pkg-config |
| 2021-05-12 19:11:00 +0200 | grepcake | (~artyom@77.234.209.96) |
| 2021-05-12 19:11:06 +0200 | <maerwald> | geekosaur: depends |
| 2021-05-12 19:13:49 +0200 | jonathanx_ | (~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 19:13:55 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 19:14:05 +0200 | CrazyPython | (~crazypyth@206.214.238.6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:14:16 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:14:38 +0200 | cole-h | (~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 19:15:26 +0200 | Shuppiluliuma | (~shuppilul@153.33.68.161) |
| 2021-05-12 19:15:37 +0200 | Merfont | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-12 19:15:50 +0200 | Kaeipi | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 19:16:28 +0200 | ddellac__ | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 2021-05-12 19:18:34 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 19:18:45 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:19:05 +0200 | fresheyeball | (~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 19:21:11 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 19:21:38 +0200 | kuribas | (~user@ptr-25vy0i905bdcx4bbbsp.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3)") |
| 2021-05-12 19:24:05 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) |
| 2021-05-12 19:25:49 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:27:39 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf005e54e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:27:43 +0200 | <maerwald> | does llvm have them even? |
| 2021-05-12 19:28:08 +0200 | <maerwald> | I think foo-config binaries are equally viable... it's just they're unergonomic to use in Cabal |
| 2021-05-12 19:28:15 +0200 | <maerwald> | there should be better support for that |
| 2021-05-12 19:29:09 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:33:06 +0200 | deejaytee | (~deejaytee@cpc91196-cmbg18-2-0-cust215.5-4.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 19:36:13 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:38:10 +0200 | Aquazi | (uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oagakatzmderzmkp) |
| 2021-05-12 19:39:54 +0200 | stef204 | (~stef204@unaffiliated/stef-204/x-384198) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 19:40:12 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 19:43:45 +0200 | waleee-cl | (uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqrlgrprcnuqmtaa) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 19:44:10 +0200 | abhixec | (~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 19:46:10 +0200 | kiltzman | (~k1ltzman@195.189.99.96) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:50:37 +0200 | kiltzman | (~k1ltzman@195.189.99.96) |
| 2021-05-12 19:52:44 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:53:52 +0200 | coot | (~coot@37.30.58.122.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot) |
| 2021-05-12 19:54:28 +0200 | sedeki | (~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki) |
| 2021-05-12 19:56:13 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 19:56:52 +0200 | <CuPenguin> | anybody here using NixOS? |
| 2021-05-12 19:57:47 +0200 | CuPenguin | (~CuPenguin@207.38.239.235) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 19:57:49 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 19:59:27 +0200 | nvmd | (~nvmd@177.30.111.232) (Quit: Later nerds.) |
| 2021-05-12 20:00:48 +0200 | sedeki | (~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) |
| 2021-05-12 20:01:48 +0200 | bitmagie | (~Thunderbi@200116b806f96a003829ba6732a572cc.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie) |
| 2021-05-12 20:02:11 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:03:04 +0200 | epicte7us | (~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 20:04:23 +0200 | hatds | (~HAL@c-107-4-136-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 20:06:11 +0200 | ep1ctetus | (~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:06:41 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:06:57 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:07:49 +0200 | Tario | (~Tario@201.192.165.173) |
| 2021-05-12 20:08:31 +0200 | frozenErebus | (~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:09:49 +0200 | ukari | (~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 20:10:41 +0200 | ukari | (~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) |
| 2021-05-12 20:12:47 +0200 | Merfont | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 20:12:58 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 20:13:05 +0200 | Merfont | (~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) |
| 2021-05-12 20:14:45 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:15:05 +0200 | sh9 | (~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9) |
| 2021-05-12 20:17:12 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) |
| 2021-05-12 20:20:46 +0200 | malumore_ | (~malumore@151.62.125.25) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:22:27 +0200 | chimera | (~chimera@120-192-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 2021-05-12 20:27:15 +0200 | mceier | (~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 20:30:11 +0200 | mceier | (~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 20:30:29 +0200 | rajivr | (uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hokcqwgivdarxuri) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 20:30:46 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:31:29 +0200 | <sm[m]> | nope, no nix fans in here.. move along, move along |
| 2021-05-12 20:31:36 +0200 | guriya | (a0ee4b60@unaffiliated/guriya) |
| 2021-05-12 20:32:23 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 20:32:51 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) |
| 2021-05-12 20:37:31 +0200 | m_shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.59.168) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 20:37:59 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 20:38:57 +0200 | shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.59.168) |
| 2021-05-12 20:39:01 +0200 | <aldum> | I beg to differ, somewhat |
| 2021-05-12 20:39:22 +0200 | <aldum> | haven't booted it in some months, but I do have an install |
| 2021-05-12 20:40:06 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 20:40:28 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 20:40:41 +0200 | <deejaytee> | I use it a fair bit at work - I'm not clever enough for it, so it gives me grief |
| 2021-05-12 20:40:59 +0200 | <deejaytee> | s/use/have to use |
| 2021-05-12 20:41:01 +0200 | shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.59.168) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 20:41:02 +0200 | <monochrom> | Pretty sure it was a joke. |
| 2021-05-12 20:41:31 +0200 | <deejaytee> | The question or the subject? :P |
| 2021-05-12 20:42:49 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:44:35 +0200 | hiroaki | (~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:f4a2:7a57:7d89:6f13) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 20:47:06 +0200 | <tomjaguarpaw> | bitonic: Sorry, I missed your message about Opaleye. The best way of getting my attention is to file an issue on Opaleye Github. But no, it doesn't support any binary format. In fact I didn't know there was one! I would be very encouraging of supporting it though. I guess the idea is that it has better performance? Anyway, if you want to discuss more please open an issue. |
| 2021-05-12 20:47:50 +0200 | <bitonic> | tomjaguarpaw: no problem. yes, the idea is that it has better performance. we're dealing with ~10MB jsonb columns and it takes many seconds to roundtrip them |
| 2021-05-12 20:47:54 +0200 | <bitonic> | i will open an issue |
| 2021-05-12 20:48:51 +0200 | garFF | (~garff@0x3e2c86d9.mobile.telia.dk) |
| 2021-05-12 20:48:56 +0200 | garFF_ | (~garff@0x3e2c86d9.mobile.telia.dk) |
| 2021-05-12 20:49:40 +0200 | garFF_ | (~garff@0x3e2c86d9.mobile.telia.dk) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 20:50:22 +0200 | <veverak> | I am lost in this |
| 2021-05-12 20:50:37 +0200 | <veverak> | I have `Double`, how to convert it to Scientific? |
| 2021-05-12 20:50:52 +0200 | <veverak> | (I use Double for radians, library I am using expects Scientific) |
| 2021-05-12 20:52:06 +0200 | <tomjaguarpaw> | fromFloatDigits? "Convert a RealFloat (like a Double or Float) into a Scientific number." |
| 2021-05-12 20:52:18 +0200 | <veverak> | ah, yes |
| 2021-05-12 20:52:26 +0200 | <veverak> | thanks, I was blind when reading the doc |
| 2021-05-12 20:52:36 +0200 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Easy to do |
| 2021-05-12 20:52:53 +0200 | <bitonic> | tomjaguarpaw: https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/haskell-opaleye/issues/506 fairly nondescript issue, feel free to ask for more details (although i'm not an expert myself) |
| 2021-05-12 20:54:13 +0200 | <tomjaguarpaw> | Oh, you are mazzo.li? Nice blog post on backpropagation! |
| 2021-05-12 20:57:23 +0200 | hexfive | (~hexfive@50.35.83.177) |
| 2021-05-12 20:57:36 +0200 | dariof4 | (~dario@178.249.202.150) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 20:58:43 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 20:59:57 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:07:10 +0200 | <grepcake> | Is anyone familiar with async-pool? It seems to deadlock on pretty simple things, or maybe I'm misusing it. The example: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/g7D1u8vA. I have -threaded and -N4 specified, launch it as `stack test --ta "-m taskgroup"` |
| 2021-05-12 21:08:07 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:10:19 +0200 | geowiesnot | (~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 21:14:08 +0200 | texasmynsted | (~texasmyns@99.96.221.112) |
| 2021-05-12 21:16:04 +0200 | guriya | (a0ee4b60@unaffiliated/guriya) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 21:16:11 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.176) |
| 2021-05-12 21:17:13 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 21:20:22 +0200 | wroathe | (~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 2021-05-12 21:20:44 +0200 | ddellacosta | (~ddellacos@86.106.143.176) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:21:36 +0200 | pthariensflame | (~pthariens@2600:6c52:727f:4200:9014:9cc:687a:9478) |
| 2021-05-12 21:21:53 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:22:36 +0200 | pthariensflame | (~pthariens@2600:6c52:727f:4200:9014:9cc:687a:9478) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 21:25:40 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 21:26:23 +0200 | hexfive | (~hexfive@50.35.83.177) (Quit: i must go. my people need me.) |
| 2021-05-12 21:26:36 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 21:27:22 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 21:28:18 +0200 | ubert | (~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf005e54e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2021-05-12 21:29:36 +0200 | <dminuoso> | grepcake: There's something odd here, the second argument to withTaskGroup ought to be a function, not an IO value. |
| 2021-05-12 21:31:04 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Does this really compile for you? |
| 2021-05-12 21:31:26 +0200 | ram19890 | (~ram@49.205.82.36) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:32:20 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Ah, I suck at reading types today. |
| 2021-05-12 21:35:03 +0200 | Solarion | (~solarion@fsf/member/solarion) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:35:11 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 21:35:17 +0200 | Solarion | (~solarion@mail.digitasaru.net) |
| 2021-05-12 21:35:31 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 21:36:47 +0200 | Pickchea | (~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 21:36:59 +0200 | <grepcake> | dminuoso: you probably've figured it out, but it's an eta-reduced function, tg is implicit |
| 2021-05-12 21:39:57 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:523e:f300:f7bd:d435:471d:3982) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:40:16 +0200 | xff0x | (xff0x@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xff0x) |
| 2021-05-12 21:40:46 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:41:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | main = print =<< withTaskGroup 4 acting where acting g = sum <$> mapConcurrently g pure [2,3,4,5,6] |
| 2021-05-12 21:41:26 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Works fine for me |
| 2021-05-12 21:43:16 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:43:26 +0200 | <grepcake> | dminuoso: Yes, it works with mapConcurrently but not with Concurrently |
| 2021-05-12 21:43:59 +0200 | <grepcake> | Moreover, it does work when the number of tasks is lesser than the pool capacity |
| 2021-05-12 21:44:18 +0200 | dariof4 | (~dario@178.249.202.150) |
| 2021-05-12 21:44:45 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:45:01 +0200 | <grepcake> | (and I kind of need to have Concurrently, so I'm stuck with it) I guess I'll report the issue and move on to unliftio.async |
| 2021-05-12 21:45:31 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Concurrently fs <*> Concurrently as = Concurrently $ \tg -> (\(f, a) -> f a) <$> concurrently tg (fs tg) (as tg) |
| 2021-05-12 21:45:33 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Mmm |
| 2021-05-12 21:45:54 +0200 | <dminuoso> | mapConcurrently f = runConcurrently . traverse (Concurrently . f) |
| 2021-05-12 21:45:55 +0200 | <dminuoso> | This is strange |
| 2021-05-12 21:47:24 +0200 | vchlup_ | (~vchlup@nat.brnet.cz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 21:47:37 +0200 | xff0x | (xff0x@gateway/vpn/mullvad/xff0x) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:47:47 +0200 | vchlup_ | (~vchlup@nat.brnet.cz) |
| 2021-05-12 21:48:24 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Ah that's the wrong mapConcurrently definition |
| 2021-05-12 21:48:32 +0200 | <dminuoso> | mapConcurrently tg f = mapTasks tg . fmap f |
| 2021-05-12 21:49:00 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 21:49:11 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) |
| 2021-05-12 21:49:29 +0200 | xff0x | (~xff0x@2001:1a81:523e:f300:f7bd:d435:471d:3982) |
| 2021-05-12 21:49:29 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 21:50:05 +0200 | freeman42x | (~40726@2a02:2f0c:5407:600:3170:9538:f09e:98fe) |
| 2021-05-12 21:50:11 +0200 | freeman42x | (~40726@2a02:2f0c:5407:600:3170:9538:f09e:98fe) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 2021-05-12 21:51:31 +0200 | Xnuk | (~xnuk@vultr.xnu.kr) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:51:46 +0200 | nerdypepper | (znc@152.67.162.71) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:51:50 +0200 | freeman42x | (~40726@2a02:2f0c:5407:600:3170:9538:f09e:98fe) |
| 2021-05-12 21:52:07 +0200 | raehik | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:52:40 +0200 | freeman42x | (~40726@2a02:2f0c:5407:600:3170:9538:f09e:98fe) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 21:53:22 +0200 | joncol | (~jco@c83-248-173-38.bredband.tele2.se) |
| 2021-05-12 21:53:54 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 21:54:00 +0200 | joncol | (~jco@c83-248-173-38.bredband.tele2.se) (Client Quit) |
| 2021-05-12 21:55:47 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 21:57:15 +0200 | heatsink | (~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 2021-05-12 21:59:23 +0200 | nerdypepper | (znc@152.67.162.71) |
| 2021-05-12 21:59:49 +0200 | _ht | (~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 21:59:56 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) |
| 2021-05-12 22:00:15 +0200 | Xnuk | (~xnuk@45.76.202.58) |
| 2021-05-12 22:00:44 +0200 | bor0 | (~boro@unaffiliated/boro/x-000000001) |
| 2021-05-12 22:04:03 +0200 | grepcake | (~artyom@77.234.209.96) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:04:36 +0200 | gzj | (~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:05:11 +0200 | petersen | (~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:05:32 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 22:06:05 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 22:06:13 +0200 | <dminuoso> | geekosaur: I feel like this is related to https://github.com/jwiegley/async-pool/issues/7 |
| 2021-05-12 22:06:28 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Judging from the original implementation, Id say it's exactly the same |
| 2021-05-12 22:06:51 +0200 | <geekosaur> | I think you wanted grepcake |
| 2021-05-12 22:06:57 +0200 | <geekosaur> | but they left |
| 2021-05-12 22:07:42 +0200 | <dminuoso> | Oh, indeed. |
| 2021-05-12 22:08:04 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:08:31 +0200 | petersen | (~petersen@redhat/juhp) |
| 2021-05-12 22:12:26 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 2021-05-12 22:14:56 +0200 | thc202 | (~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:19:59 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 22:22:53 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 22:23:16 +0200 | merijn | (~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:27:09 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:27:19 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:28:24 +0200 | Sigyn | (sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn) |
| 2021-05-12 22:28:24 +0200 | ChanServ | +o Sigyn |
| 2021-05-12 22:29:04 +0200 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:29:26 +0200 | notzmv | (~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) |
| 2021-05-12 22:32:12 +0200 | sord937 | (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 2021-05-12 22:33:33 +0200 | raehik1 | (~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:34:12 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 22:41:10 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Connection closed) |
| 2021-05-12 22:42:30 +0200 | Feuermagier | (~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 22:44:13 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 22:45:26 +0200 | rodriga | (~quassel@134.204.25.66) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:47:02 +0200 | ozzymcduff | (~textual@81-234-151-21-no94.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 22:48:17 +0200 | geekosaur | (930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 2021-05-12 22:50:43 +0200 | bor0 | (~boro@unaffiliated/boro/x-000000001) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 2021-05-12 22:53:30 +0200 | shiraeeshi | (~shiraeesh@109.166.58.127) |
| 2021-05-12 22:54:39 +0200 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) |
| 2021-05-12 22:54:58 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 22:55:32 +0200 | corvusdev | (~corvusdev@50.212.103.45) |
| 2021-05-12 22:56:11 +0200 | rond_ | (531cde7e@bmc126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 2021-05-12 22:57:33 +0200 | seveg | (~gabriel@2a02-ab04-0249-8d00-dea6-32ff-fe17-0993.dynamic.v6.chello.sk) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1) |
| 2021-05-12 22:57:53 +0200 | chomwitt | (~alexander@ppp-2-85-245-254.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 22:59:42 +0200 | nbloomf | (~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:9d88:fa76:8cb0:666d) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 2021-05-12 22:59:46 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:00:23 +0200 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:00:25 +0200 | ndn76kxuwwy2848s | (ndn76kxuww@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmvtxzckfsdewjru) |
| 2021-05-12 23:02:03 +0200 | justsomeguy | (~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) |
| 2021-05-12 23:03:31 +0200 | Solarion | (~solarion@mail.digitasaru.net) (Changing host) |
| 2021-05-12 23:03:31 +0200 | Solarion | (~solarion@fsf/member/solarion) |
| 2021-05-12 23:05:01 +0200 | DTZUZU | (~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 23:05:12 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:05:26 +0200 | DTZUZU | (~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) |
| 2021-05-12 23:12:21 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:13:19 +0200 | grepcake | (~artyom@77.234.203.49) |
| 2021-05-12 23:15:02 +0200 | waleee-cl | (uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdqogcpuvytwnnml) |
| 2021-05-12 23:19:27 +0200 | pavonia | (~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) |
| 2021-05-12 23:21:51 +0200 | danvet | (~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:23:28 +0200 | apache8080 | (~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 2021-05-12 23:23:40 +0200 | rj | (~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) |
| 2021-05-12 23:23:48 +0200 | epicte7us | (~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:24:17 +0200 | xaxaxixax | (4c0eef26@76-14-239-38.or.wavecable.com) |
| 2021-05-12 23:24:34 +0200 | tromp | (~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 23:25:33 +0200 | garFF | (~garff@0x3e2c86d9.mobile.telia.dk) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2021-05-12 23:26:01 +0200 | takuan | (~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 23:26:12 +0200 | hiroaki | (~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40:f4d0:64dc:32c0:7b34) |
| 2021-05-12 23:26:51 +0200 | NinjaTrappeur | (~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) |
| 2021-05-12 23:27:05 +0200 | garFF | (~garff@0x3e2c86d9.mobile.telia.dk) |
| 2021-05-12 23:27:45 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | does anyone have any tips for working with the GHC-emitted haskell ASTs? I'm writing a plugin that manipulates the AST and it's a massive bother, the data types are completely inconsistent between versions and the docs seem to be broken |
| 2021-05-12 23:28:14 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | I've found https://github.com/nboldi/haskell-tools which I could read through to see how they deal with it, but anyone have any other tips? |
| 2021-05-12 23:29:50 +0200 | nut | (~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:31:17 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) |
| 2021-05-12 23:31:55 +0200 | renzhi | (~renzhi@2607:fa49:6500:bc00::e7b) |
| 2021-05-12 23:32:10 +0200 | <deejaytee> | I'm aware of http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghc-lib-parser but I'm not sure if that is what you're looking for |
| 2021-05-12 23:32:35 +0200 | olligobber | (olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) |
| 2021-05-12 23:34:02 +0200 | chasmonad | (9d83a8ce@157-131-168-206.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2021-05-12 23:35:41 +0200 | ddellacosta | (ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:36:02 +0200 | <chasmonad> | hi all... is there a way to capture `cabal build` output so I can filter out the extraneous version spam? `cabal build 2>&1 | grep -v extraneous` does not work, for example |
| 2021-05-12 23:36:42 +0200 | mounty | (~mounty@236.216.214.218.sta.wbroadband.net.au) |
| 2021-05-12 23:36:52 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | oh nice, that might be able to fix the inconsistent docs issue, thanks! the problem is the AST is handed to me by GHC, so I have to track down the exact docs for the version of GHC I'm using. i think though if I use the haddock build/host thing that should work |
| 2021-05-12 23:37:25 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | the data types themselves are real messes though, the source line tagging and everything makes it a horrible mess to pattern match on |
| 2021-05-12 23:37:44 +0200 | grepcake | (~artyom@77.234.203.49) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 2021-05-12 23:37:58 +0200 | Aquazi | (uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oagakatzmderzmkp) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 2021-05-12 23:37:59 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | never used lenses but they're one solution to this sort of issue, right? |
| 2021-05-12 23:38:02 +0200 | fendor | (~fendor@178.165.130.48.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 2021-05-12 23:42:23 +0200 | <deejaytee> | it depends - if all you need is to match on particularly complex data constructors that will always have the same shape, PatternSynonyms may be all you need |
| 2021-05-12 23:42:50 +0200 | tsaka__ | (~torstein@178-147-206-209.haap.dm.cosmote.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:43:26 +0200 | nut | (~nut@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 2021-05-12 23:43:35 +0200 | <deejaytee> | (it's a language extension) |
| 2021-05-12 23:43:37 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:44:27 +0200 | Tuplanolla | (~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 2021-05-12 23:51:23 +0200 | chasmonad | (9d83a8ce@157-131-168-206.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:53:07 +0200 | wonko7 | (~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2021-05-12 23:53:27 +0200 | chasmonad | (9d83a8ce@157-131-168-206.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 2021-05-12 23:53:49 +0200 | elfets | (~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 2021-05-12 23:53:59 +0200 | <chasmonad> | hmmmm ping timeouts sigh |
| 2021-05-12 23:55:44 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | ah pattern synonyms look really nice, im kicking myself for not finding this earlier |
| 2021-05-12 23:56:37 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | incidentally, are extensions implemented in the same way as plugins? |
| 2021-05-12 23:56:49 +0200 | stree | (~stree@68.36.8.116) |
| 2021-05-12 23:57:05 +0200 | <deejaytee> | one of the best and worst things I ever did was read the whole GHC language extension list end to end |
| 2021-05-12 23:57:57 +0200 | tonyc- | (~tonyc@208.163.180.21) |
| 2021-05-12 23:58:16 +0200 | <ski> | dunno what you mean by "plugins" |
| 2021-05-12 23:58:43 +0200 | <deejaytee> | re extension implementation, no idea, but I suspect a fair few of them would be difficult to impossible w/ just the GHC API |
| 2021-05-12 23:59:07 +0200 | <deejaytee> | if that's what you mean by plugins |
| 2021-05-12 23:59:09 +0200 | star_cloud | (~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) |
| 2021-05-12 23:59:30 +0200 | tonyc- | Xyberista |
| 2021-05-12 23:59:39 +0200 | <xaxaxixax> | plugins as in https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/extending_ghc.html#compiler-plugins |