2021/04/10

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2021-04-10 00:12:32 +0000 <HannaM> hasdoc... -_- ominous .. sounds like an amalgamation of "Hasso" (typical german name for dogs) and dog =)
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2021-04-10 00:14:38 +0000 <monochrom> But it's texdoc then s/tex/has/
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2021-04-10 00:15:04 +0000 <wrunt> HannaM: if you think that's ominous, check out https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskdogs
2021-04-10 00:15:05 +0000dcoutts__(~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net)
2021-04-10 00:16:03 +0000 <HannaM> people working with functional programming languages have either too much time on their hands or too much fun..
2021-04-10 00:16:07 +0000 <HannaM> or both
2021-04-10 00:16:50 +0000 <HannaM> which is a good thing ..
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2021-04-10 01:49:15 +0000 <wroathe> In the Typing Haskell in Haskell paper the author states that "the syntax of Haskell requires class arguments to be of the form v t1 ... tn, where v is a type variable, and t1,...,tn are types (and n ³ 0).". Isn't this the opposite of what Haskell actually requires? Or am I misunderstanding this.
2021-04-10 01:49:25 +0000 <wroathe> "(All instance types must be of the form (T a1 ... an) where a1 ... an are *distinct type variables*, and each type variable appears at most once in the instance head." is the typical error I see when compiling
2021-04-10 01:49:42 +0000 <wroathe> Here's the relevant section (end of the second paragraph) https://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mpj/thih/TypingHaskellInHaskell.html#sec-ctxtred
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2021-04-10 03:26:55 +0000 <hololeap> what does n ³ 0 mean
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2021-04-10 03:34:44 +0000glaceon(~glaceon@117.222.70.34)
2021-04-10 03:34:51 +0000 <johnw> maerwald: what is the current recommended AE library?
2021-04-10 03:35:08 +0000Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-10 03:36:11 +0000 <wroathe> hololeap: That was a copy/paste error. It's n >= 0
2021-04-10 03:36:19 +0000 <davean> cccccclknknvedgfneknrijbbrktjdchdbvcuegthilh
2021-04-10 03:36:30 +0000 <johnw> ooh, Yubikey user!
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2021-04-10 03:36:43 +0000 <johnw> at work such strings are a running joke
2021-04-10 03:37:04 +0000 <davean> Yah, its annoying, I don't use that part of it, but disabling it ...
2021-04-10 03:37:16 +0000 <johnw> disabling it is actually very easy; want the steps?
2021-04-10 03:37:32 +0000 <davean> I had issues disabling it making touch-to-sign not work
2021-04-10 03:37:35 +0000 <johnw> https://gist.github.com/0472119c67eaf701799b99b4db235d43
2021-04-10 03:37:38 +0000 <davean> the part I actually use
2021-04-10 03:37:39 +0000 <johnw> huh
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2021-04-10 03:37:57 +0000 <johnw> I stopped using touch-to-sign, I make too many Git commits per day for that
2021-04-10 03:40:50 +0000 <davean> well I was going to ask if theres a particular reason Solo isn't exposed in 'base', just ghc-prim and if there was a reason for that decision
2021-04-10 03:44:26 +0000 <johnw> I was wondering what the current "state of the art" is for Haskell algebraic effect libraries
2021-04-10 03:44:35 +0000 <johnw> I really like using them, but the landscape seems to change very often
2021-04-10 03:50:26 +0000 <edwardk> johnw: clearly the answer is mtl
2021-04-10 03:50:27 +0000 <johnw> sounds like fused-effects for the time being?
2021-04-10 03:50:33 +0000 <johnw> hah, edwardk
2021-04-10 03:50:38 +0000 <johnw> what's up!
2021-04-10 03:50:56 +0000 <edwardk> a fair bit. we should catch up
2021-04-10 03:51:24 +0000 <johnw> we absolutely should; a visit is in order. according to my wife I should be safest to travel come mid-May
2021-04-10 03:51:29 +0000 <johnw> I plan on heading out your way
2021-04-10 03:51:51 +0000 <edwardk> amy and i are out in the middle of the desert at the moment. berkeley was feeling a little crowded
2021-04-10 03:52:29 +0000geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-10 03:52:31 +0000 <edwardk> got far enough away from it all that we don't need to deal with neighbors til after we get fully vaccinated, etc.
2021-04-10 03:53:32 +0000 <edwardk> have been generally hanging out and live-coding over on https://discord.gg/rHg4AJaB when I get free time
2021-04-10 03:54:06 +0000 <edwardk> working up a bunch of code for linear logic, etc.
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2021-04-10 04:01:05 +0000 <johnw> linear logic in what sense?
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2021-04-10 04:17:10 +0000cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (*.net *.split)
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2021-04-10 04:17:10 +0000takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:10 +0000CitizenSnips(~CitizenSn@irc.refl.club) (*.net *.split)
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2021-04-10 04:17:12 +0000thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.111.104) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:12 +0000TheWizardTower[m(thewizardt@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-twjxxhlyipcuukha) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:12 +0000pnotequalnp[m](pnotequaln@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jtunskuzqyhnpxim) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:12 +0000Lurkki[m](lurkkifene@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ybydopphoxixxelp) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:12 +0000tumdedum(~tumdedum@unaffiliated/espiral) (*.net *.split)
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2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000rembo10(~rembo10@wally.codeshy.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000avn(~avn@78-56-108-78.static.zebra.lt) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000darkon(~darkon@90.214.167.201) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000leafiest(~leafiest@165.227.53.12) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000averell(~averell@unaffiliated/averell) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.57.81) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000mantovani(~mantovani@104.131.207.121) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000okad(~okad@ec2-18-135-78-237.eu-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000iptq(~michael@142.93.75.170) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000tomjaguarpaw(~tom@li367-225.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000M2tias(m2@seri.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:32 +0000stilgart(~Christoph@chezlefab.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@tomsmeding.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Chobbes_(~Chobbes@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000sajith(~sajith@fsf/member/nonzen) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000chindy_(~quassel@51.15.63.78) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000a3Dman_(~3Dman@ns334323.ip-5-196-65.eu) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000bbear_(~znc@21212.s.t4vps.eu) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000thblt(~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000uberj_(~uberj@107.170.237.156) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Anthaas_(~Anthaas@unaffiliated/anthaas) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Xnuk(~xnuk@45.76.202.58) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000jtobin_(~jtobin@li1555-212.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000drakonis(~drakonis@unaffiliated/drakonis) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000niklasb(~niklasb@unaffiliated/codeslay0r) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Putonlalla(~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000jrm(~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Solarion(~solarion@fsf/member/solarion) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000SoF(~SoF@unaffiliated/skillyonfire) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000blissful(~blissful@unaffiliated/azuline) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:33 +0000ChanServ(ChanServ@services.) (*.net *.split)
2021-04-10 04:17:34 +0000dsrt^(dsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-04-10 04:17:34 +0000DevTurks[m](turkdevops@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-actupmqxbfmeqalz) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-04-10 04:17:34 +0000 <edwardk> https://github.com/ekmett/linear-logic/blob/main/internal/Linear/Logic/Internal.hs#L54 full intuitionistic linear logic stitting on top linear haskell
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2021-04-10 04:24:44 +0000 <edwardk> johnw: been playing with https://github.com/ekmett/linear-logic/tree/plugin
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2021-04-10 04:25:18 +0000 <edwardk> johnw: focus so far is on using linear-haskell to bootstrap a stronger linear logic and then see if i can't make plugins, etc. that make it nicer to work with
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2021-04-10 04:26:27 +0000 <edwardk> johnw: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/mgve3s/linear_logic_in_ghc_9/gsxbysh/ is a short writeup on the 'how'
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2021-04-10 04:30:55 +0000 <wroathe> edwardk: I tried tuning into your stream one time, and it was so far beyond me that I decided my time would be better served by turning back to whatever mediocre thing I was working on at time time, but I've wondered how someone with your understanding of type theory would go about architecting a "regular" application that a user might use
2021-04-10 04:35:54 +0000laudiacay(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-10 04:36:18 +0000laudiacayGuest78317
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2021-04-10 04:38:15 +0000 <edwardk> i tend to just write whatever piece is in front of me with whatever laws I can come up with that hopefully have a little more motivation than me making them up on the spot and stitch parts together until i have an application
2021-04-10 04:38:48 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> when eddie said he didn't like his teddy you knew he was a no good kid
2021-04-10 04:38:49 +0000 <edwardk> i work with typeclasses named after mathematics ideas explicitly because i lack enough imagination to make up good laws
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2021-04-10 05:19:24 +0000 <zzz> can someone sum up the difference between Arrow and (->) for me please?
2021-04-10 05:23:36 +0000 <zzz> or point me somewhere useful?
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2021-04-10 05:26:25 +0000joe[m]1(joemonoida@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dyuqcnyqoeqswuzr)
2021-04-10 05:26:45 +0000 <davean> zzz: (->) is a specific thing, Arrow is a set of laws and properties, which (->) happens to satisy, but other things not like (->) persay also do.
2021-04-10 05:28:26 +0000kristijonas(~kristijon@78-56-32-39.static.zebra.lt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-10 05:31:19 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:dc42:a777:68ff:c625)
2021-04-10 05:31:58 +0000RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 05:34:16 +0000 <zzz> so Arrow is more general
2021-04-10 05:35:25 +0000 <zzz> i was wondering why (->) is a Profunctor
2021-04-10 05:35:38 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:dc42:a777:68ff:c625) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-10 05:35:48 +0000 <davean> I mean -> is also Num and Monad, and I'm not seeing you ask what the difference between Num and -> are
2021-04-10 05:37:47 +0000 <davean> (a horrible, no good, very bad instance but whatever)
2021-04-10 05:37:53 +0000 <zzz> if (->) is a Monad and Arrow is a Monad, I would ask what's the difference between (->) and Arrow
2021-04-10 05:39:18 +0000 <davean> Whats the difference between Ord and Num?
2021-04-10 05:39:35 +0000 <davean> And the fact that Int is both of them makes them the same tihng I guess?
2021-04-10 05:39:48 +0000RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
2021-04-10 05:40:10 +0000 <zzz> i think we are misunderstanding eachother
2021-04-10 05:40:11 +0000 <davean> I'd try to explain better but I don't understand your thinking here enough to make a useful comment
2021-04-10 05:40:14 +0000 <gnumonic> I dunno that "why is X a Y" (where Y is a typeclass) is ever a question with an interesting answer. X is always a Y because you can define an instance that satisfies the laws...
2021-04-10 05:41:00 +0000Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-10 05:41:15 +0000true-asset(~true-asse@178.239.168.171)
2021-04-10 05:41:38 +0000 <davean> gnumonic: right. It doesn't really imply any relation other than that the law hold - and it certainly doesn't imply that that being true is interesting
2021-04-10 05:42:11 +0000 <davean> They exist at different levels and one is an observation about another
2021-04-10 05:42:25 +0000expipiplus1[m](~expipiplu@li1766-207.members.linode.com)
2021-04-10 05:43:17 +0000 <expipiplus1[m]> hi all
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2021-04-10 05:47:02 +0000 <juri_> hi more all.
2021-04-10 05:47:06 +0000expipiplus1[m](~expipiplu@li1766-207.members.linode.com) (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM)
2021-04-10 05:48:32 +0000 <zzz> right, let e rephrase that. (->) is an Arrow and all Arrows are Profunctors. Is there a need for (->) to be firectly declared a Profunctor instance, if we already have it for Arrows?
2021-04-10 05:49:15 +0000 <zzz> s/e/me | s/fireclty/directly
2021-04-10 05:49:17 +0000 <davean> Profunctor isn't a superclass of arrow
2021-04-10 05:50:40 +0000 <zzz> hmm
2021-04-10 05:53:12 +0000 <zzz> i see
2021-04-10 05:53:13 +0000glaceon(~glaceon@117.222.70.34) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-10 05:53:18 +0000 <zzz> thank you
2021-04-10 05:53:22 +0000expipiplus1[m](~expipiplu@li1766-207.members.linode.com)
2021-04-10 05:54:36 +0000 <davean> Direct questions like that are so much easier :)
2021-04-10 05:55:29 +0000 <juri_> davean: why does my code suck? :)
2021-04-10 05:55:31 +0000expipiplus1[m](~expipiplu@li1766-207.members.linode.com) (Client Quit)
2021-04-10 05:57:07 +0000 <davean> juri_: You haven't gotten the right people to provide patches yet.
2021-04-10 05:58:28 +0000 <juri_> wow. you do like direct questions. :)
2021-04-10 06:02:09 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-10 06:07:11 +0000 <davean> juri_: also, lets be honest, code is just inherently sorta ugly by default.
2021-04-10 06:21:25 +0000raym(~ray@45.64.220.116)
2021-04-10 06:23:43 +0000SquidDev(~SquidDev@autoclave.squiddev.cc)
2021-04-10 06:27:30 +0000 <edwardk> zzz: even if it was a superclass of arrow, you'd have to define the instance. you can't just say instance Arrow a => Profunctor a where ... -- that instance means that _all_ profunctors are defined this way.
2021-04-10 06:28:51 +0000 <edwardk> zzz: that said we could have used "deriving via WrappedArrow (->) instance Profunctor (->)" -- to get it 'for free', except for the fact that profunctor contains a couple of extra efficiency oriented unsafe methods
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2021-04-10 09:25:49 +0000 <maerwald> johnw: AE library?
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2021-04-10 10:39:41 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@cpc98210-croy26-2-0-cust137.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-10 10:39:41 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@cpc98210-croy26-2-0-cust137.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Changing host)
2021-04-10 10:39:41 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2021-04-10 10:39:51 +0000 <zzz> edwardk: i get it now. thank you
2021-04-10 10:40:27 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-10 10:40:50 +0000royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-10 10:41:05 +0000elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-10 10:46:11 +0000 <ij> TIL: if you write "class C x where empty :: x y", then x's kind will be inferred and there is no explicit mention. I realized, because Graph from fgl doesn't say what "a" and "b" are https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fgl-5.7.0.3/docs/Data-Graph-Inductive-Graph.html#t:Graph
2021-04-10 10:46:42 +0000connrs(~connrs@mail.connolley.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-10 10:47:09 +0000 <ij> but it seems like they're just node/edge label parameters
2021-04-10 10:47:42 +0000connrs(~connrs@mail.connolley.uk)
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2021-04-10 12:58:06 +0000 <joel135> someone here wrote https://bradparker.com/posts/lets-learn-about-lenses
2021-04-10 12:58:28 +0000solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Client Quit)
2021-04-10 12:58:47 +0000 <joel135> I am not sure how to use the "[json| {" syntax. I get a syntax error.
2021-04-10 12:59:02 +0000 <joel135> I have imported import Data.Aeson.Lens.
2021-04-10 13:01:15 +0000 <hpc> add {-# LANGUAGE XQuasiQuotes #-} to the start of your file
2021-04-10 13:01:25 +0000 <hpc> that post neglects to mention that you need it
2021-04-10 13:01:31 +0000 <joel135> ok thanks
2021-04-10 13:01:32 +0000 <hpc> er, minus the X there
2021-04-10 13:04:34 +0000 <joel135> now it says "Not in scope: ‘json’" and "import Data.Aeson" gives me a type error
2021-04-10 13:05:24 +0000acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9599392c48d8e031de92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-10 13:05:29 +0000 <joel135> (https://paste.tomsmeding.com/SeadJwVS)
2021-04-10 13:07:06 +0000HannaM(~quassel@p54849510.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-10 13:07:40 +0000fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-10 13:08:54 +0000average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcrxvnrynryjlrmq)
2021-04-10 13:09:28 +0000 <hpc> i am not sure where that json definition comes from, but the type error is because of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#v:json not being a quasiquoter
2021-04-10 13:10:41 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 13:10:46 +0000 <hpc> perhaps you can define someJson differently, using what you currently have in scope
2021-04-10 13:10:53 +0000 <hpc> it won't be as terse, but it'll compile
2021-04-10 13:11:01 +0000hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:fae4:d585:4c66:6341)
2021-04-10 13:11:06 +0000hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:fae4:d585:4c66:6341)
2021-04-10 13:11:34 +0000 <joel135> I wish I could remember who in this channel wrote it.
2021-04-10 13:12:42 +0000fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-04-10 13:21:36 +0000eacameron(uid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipirxiincahhhbhu)
2021-04-10 13:26:53 +0000 <joel135> oh he has the same nick
2021-04-10 13:27:05 +0000 <joel135> bradparker: could you help me out?
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2021-04-10 15:07:32 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-04-10 15:14:16 +0000 <maerwald> Uniaika: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/reviving-the-abstract-filepath-proposal-afpp-in-user-space/2344/1
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2021-04-10 16:17:16 +0000 <Uniaika> maerwald: thanks
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2021-04-10 17:18:07 +0000 <hololeap> can anyone recommend a good beginner's resource for learning type theory?
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2021-04-10 17:20:14 +0000sayola(~vekto@dslb-002-201-085-157.002.201.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-04-10 17:20:39 +0000 <opqdonut> I enjoyed TaPL, but I guess it might be a bit old-fashioned now
2021-04-10 17:20:48 +0000 <opqdonut> https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/tapl/
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2021-04-10 17:29:14 +0000chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08)
2021-04-10 17:30:01 +0000 <Uniaika> hololeap: Type Theory and Formal Proof: An Introduction
2021-04-10 17:30:14 +0000 <Uniaika> by Nedeperlt and Geuvers
2021-04-10 17:30:27 +0000clog(~nef@bespin.org)
2021-04-10 17:30:27 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-10 17:32:28 +0000enikar`enicar`
2021-04-10 17:33:01 +0000`enicar`enikar
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2021-04-10 17:38:09 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-10 17:39:28 +0000nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2021-04-10 17:39:55 +0000 <nut> Do people put a quickcheck section in their cabal file for testing?
2021-04-10 17:40:14 +0000snowflake(~snowflake@gateway/tor-sasl/snowflake) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-10 17:40:23 +0000 <nut> How do peole usually integrate QuickCheck in their cabal project?
2021-04-10 17:40:31 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-10 17:40:56 +0000 <Clint> i usually just have one testsuite section that does everything
2021-04-10 17:41:00 +0000snowflake(~snowflake@gateway/tor-sasl/snowflake)
2021-04-10 17:41:36 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-10 17:41:48 +0000ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-10 17:42:06 +0000 <nut> do you mean a testsuite section in the cabal file?
2021-04-10 17:42:10 +0000 <nut> Clint:
2021-04-10 17:42:16 +0000rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xuciymfrkkrsarmc) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-10 17:42:52 +0000 <Clint> nut: yes
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2021-04-10 18:09:30 +0000 <epta> is there any tutorial how to migrate from network-2.* to -3.*? For instance, where is `connectTo` now? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/network-2.2.1.6/docs/Network.html#v%3AconnectTo
2021-04-10 18:09:48 +0000jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-10 18:13:55 +0000 <maerwald> epta: `connect` does not work?
2021-04-10 18:16:13 +0000rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udwscuwohsluqepa) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-10 18:18:33 +0000 <epta> maerwald: didn't try, but the signature is slightly different, at least it doesn't return a Handle
2021-04-10 18:19:13 +0000 <maerwald> the only big change is that you need network-bsd now for some functionality, but connectTo was removed before that I believe
2021-04-10 18:19:18 +0000 <maerwald> changelog doesn't mention it
2021-04-10 18:19:29 +0000 <maerwald> you rarely see migration guides in haskell
2021-04-10 18:20:11 +0000malumore_(~malumore@151.62.113.35) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-10 18:20:51 +0000 <d34df00d> Hi!
2021-04-10 18:21:00 +0000 <maerwald> your best bet is to look at reverse dependencies and check their git log
2021-04-10 18:21:26 +0000 <maerwald> https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse/network
2021-04-10 18:21:37 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-10 18:21:50 +0000roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-78-241-236.dyn.295.ca)
2021-04-10 18:21:54 +0000jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-10 18:22:07 +0000 <d34df00d> Let's say I want to write a function that has two effects: modifying a state carrying a BitVec and possibly failing to produce a value of type Word16.
2021-04-10 18:22:12 +0000 <maerwald> but digging that up might take more time than studying the new API
2021-04-10 18:22:24 +0000 <d34df00d> What's the best way to nicely express in types that the state modification happens only if the value has been produced?
2021-04-10 18:22:52 +0000 <d34df00d> `(MonadState BitVec m, Alternative m) => m Word16` (or MonadFail instead of Alternative, etc) doesn't say that.
2021-04-10 18:23:40 +0000 <d34df00d> I could probably write (MonadState BitVec m, Alternative f) => f (m Word16), but that looks kinda strange.
2021-04-10 18:24:10 +0000vicfred(vicfred@gateway/vpn/mullvad/vicfred)
2021-04-10 18:25:24 +0000 <Lycurgus> migration guides are part of the culture of ease
2021-04-10 18:25:41 +0000andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-10 18:25:54 +0000 <Lycurgus> and accomodation. hs is teH hard
2021-04-10 18:26:19 +0000andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2021-04-10 18:26:26 +0000notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-10 18:27:00 +0000Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-04-10 18:27:05 +0000 <Lycurgus> suggested adaptation: consider the bar raised
2021-04-10 18:28:25 +0000idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-10 18:30:47 +0000 <nut> https://pastebin.com/jHrM629y
2021-04-10 18:31:03 +0000 <nut> Could anyone check why my test suite only runs one single test?
2021-04-10 18:31:16 +0000 <nut> This is the first time i use quickcheck and hspec
2021-04-10 18:31:57 +0000hololeap(~hololeap@gateway/tor-sasl/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 18:32:07 +0000 <maerwald> Lycurgus: what? :D
2021-04-10 18:32:48 +0000 <Lycurgus> maerwald, say what one more time;nut, what did you expect?
2021-04-10 18:32:54 +0000 <DigitalKiwi> sometimes i wonder why some of you are even here
2021-04-10 18:33:31 +0000Digit(~user@fsf/member/digit) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-10 18:33:35 +0000 <nut> Lycurgus: I thought by default it generate 100 random strings to my functions
2021-04-10 18:33:54 +0000 <nut> Lycurgus: what I saw after running cabal test, it pass only one test
2021-04-10 18:34:11 +0000 <nut> 1 of 1 test suites (1 of 1 test cases) passed.
2021-04-10 18:34:21 +0000 <DigitalKiwi> wow pastebin.com has gotten far worse than i remember
2021-04-10 18:34:23 +0000 <maerwald> cabal test is annoying, because it hides output
2021-04-10 18:34:29 +0000 <maerwald> run the test binary directly
2021-04-10 18:34:48 +0000 <nut> how to run the test binary?
2021-04-10 18:34:51 +0000 <Lycurgus> disappointed quickcheck expectations is a common trope here
2021-04-10 18:35:25 +0000 <maerwald> nut: cabal run test-suite -- sometime works
2021-04-10 18:35:25 +0000 <Lycurgus> ahead of exception handling I think
2021-04-10 18:35:38 +0000Guest78317(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-10 18:36:12 +0000 <sclv> i run the binary directly just by running the compiled executable in new-dist/...
2021-04-10 18:36:41 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 18:37:17 +0000 <nut> maerwald: it works but still runs only 1 example
2021-04-10 18:37:46 +0000Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-04-10 18:38:24 +0000 <nut> How to make hspec/quickcheck generate more random tests?
2021-04-10 18:39:24 +0000bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-04-10 18:40:42 +0000Guest78317(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-10 18:41:18 +0000 <maerwald> cabal run test-suite -- --help
2021-04-10 18:41:41 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.210.109) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-10 18:43:23 +0000geekosaur(42d52137@66.213.33.55)
2021-04-10 18:43:56 +0000coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-10 18:44:16 +0000 <nut> cabal run test-quickcheck -- -a 10
2021-04-10 18:44:21 +0000 <nut> but still only one test
2021-04-10 18:44:25 +0000 <nut> maerwald:
2021-04-10 18:44:37 +0000hololeap(~hololeap@gateway/tor-sasl/hololeap)
2021-04-10 18:44:38 +0000hololeap(~hololeap@gateway/tor-sasl/hololeap) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-10 18:44:55 +0000 <nut> sorry
2021-04-10 18:44:58 +0000 <maerwald> well, how many tests did you write
2021-04-10 18:45:00 +0000 <maerwald> :D
2021-04-10 18:45:01 +0000 <nut> maerwald: sorry it worked
2021-04-10 18:45:09 +0000 <nut> thanks a lot!
2021-04-10 18:45:10 +0000hololeap(~hololeap@gateway/tor-sasl/hololeap)
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2021-04-10 18:54:02 +0000notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-04-10 18:54:37 +0000 <hololeap> d34df00d: doesn't MonadState already say that? if `s` hasn't been produced, how can `s -> m (a, s)` be called?
2021-04-10 18:54:43 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.120.156)
2021-04-10 18:55:31 +0000 <d34df00d> hololeap: the problem here is on the returned value (on the `a`, basically).
2021-04-10 18:55:55 +0000 <d34df00d> I want to differentiate between s -> (Maybe a, s) and Maybe (s -> (a, s))
2021-04-10 18:56:21 +0000 <d34df00d> I guess both are instances of `MonadState s m, Alternative m => m a`
2021-04-10 18:56:43 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3171:23f8:d9b8:4bd6) (Client Quit)
2021-04-10 18:57:18 +0000 <hololeap> MonadState s m => MaybeT m a -- ?
2021-04-10 18:57:47 +0000 <d34df00d> Hmm.
2021-04-10 18:57:51 +0000 <d34df00d> That might work, I guess.
2021-04-10 18:57:55 +0000pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-10 18:58:12 +0000 <d34df00d> Yea, that looks reasonable, thanks!
2021-04-10 18:58:15 +0000 <myme> I'm wondering how, if possible, to define an option using optparse-applicative which is optional on two levels: It doesn't have to be present (so use `optional`), and if it's present, you don't have to provide it with a value (using e.g. defaults). Ex: `bin [--option [value]]`
2021-04-10 18:58:32 +0000 <hololeap> that expands to `s -> m (Maybe a, s)`
2021-04-10 18:58:35 +0000 <hololeap> np
2021-04-10 18:58:48 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3171:23f8:d9b8:4bd6)
2021-04-10 18:59:29 +0000 <d34df00d> On a somewhat related note, can I do better than myFoo = state $ \st -> runST $ flip runStateT st $ runMaybeT $ do ... ?
2021-04-10 18:59:43 +0000 <d34df00d> All those runStateT and runMaybeT just to allow for runST look a bit ugly, IMO.
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2021-04-10 19:06:26 +0000__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.206.174) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 19:06:51 +0000__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.175)
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2021-04-10 19:07:21 +0000connrs(~connrs@mail.connolley.uk) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-10 19:07:41 +0000 <hololeap> % type MyMonad st s = MaybeT (StateT st (ST s))
2021-04-10 19:07:42 +0000 <yahb> hololeap: ; <interactive>:116:21: error:; Not in scope: type constructor or class `MaybeT'; Perhaps you meant `Maybe' (imported from Prelude)
2021-04-10 19:07:42 +0000connrs(~connrs@mail.connolley.uk)
2021-04-10 19:08:01 +0000 <hololeap> % import Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe
2021-04-10 19:08:01 +0000 <yahb> hololeap:
2021-04-10 19:08:05 +0000 <hololeap> % type MyMonad st s = MaybeT (StateT st (ST s))
2021-04-10 19:08:05 +0000 <yahb> hololeap:
2021-04-10 19:08:41 +0000idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 19:09:06 +0000todda7(~torstein@athedsl-09242.home.otenet.gr)
2021-04-10 19:09:32 +0000 <hololeap> % runMyMonad :: st -> (forall s. MyMonad st s a) -> (Maybe a, st) ; runMyMonad st x = runST $ flip runStateT st $ runMaybeT x
2021-04-10 19:09:32 +0000 <yahb> hololeap:
2021-04-10 19:10:37 +0000Guest78317(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-10 19:11:05 +0000 <hololeap> d34df00d: i think you can write functions in MyMonad normally and then use runMyMonad when you're ready to unpack all of it
2021-04-10 19:11:31 +0000 <hololeap> in other words, i don't think `state` is necessary
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2021-04-10 19:17:44 +0000nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-10 19:19:59 +0000 <maerwald> myme: you can have [--option=value | --option]
2021-04-10 19:20:04 +0000 <maerwald> via Alternative
2021-04-10 19:20:45 +0000 <maerwald> optional (option valueParter <|> flag Nothing (Just defaultValue))
2021-04-10 19:20:52 +0000 <maerwald> I just tried
2021-04-10 19:21:05 +0000 <maerwald> this is pseudo-code obviously
2021-04-10 19:21:41 +0000fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-10 19:22:12 +0000mananamenos(~mananamen@62.red-88-11-67.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 19:22:13 +0000 <maerwald> myme: but it confuses the parser apparently
2021-04-10 19:23:17 +0000 <myme> maerwald: That was what I was trying right now. I didn't manage to get past that either option requires a value, or flag doesn't want one.
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2021-04-10 19:24:00 +0000smctwo(~smctwo@bba597217.alshamil.net.ae)
2021-04-10 19:24:19 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-10 19:24:23 +0000 <maerwald> it would probably be less of a problem if only --foo=value was allowed and `--foo value` not
2021-04-10 19:24:33 +0000 <maerwald> then the `=` disambiguates
2021-04-10 19:24:46 +0000 <myme> Yeah. To make it more concrete, I'm adding a "--color" option to an app.
2021-04-10 19:24:52 +0000nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-10 19:25:05 +0000 <maerwald> consider a magic value, like --color=default
2021-04-10 19:25:19 +0000 <d34df00d> hololeap: yea, that's better, thankss!
2021-04-10 19:26:12 +0000 <maerwald> myme: or even more cocky: [--colors | --color=value]
2021-04-10 19:26:18 +0000 <myme> Sucks to type though ;) It's for a simple CLI app I'd typically append to a command line with `| bin [opts]`. So less typing, the better. I think I'll be going for two options then, or one option and one clag.
2021-04-10 19:26:23 +0000 <myme> Yeah, exactly.
2021-04-10 19:26:29 +0000 <myme> Thanks though maerwald.
2021-04-10 19:26:34 +0000frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-10 19:26:49 +0000 <maerwald> chances are your users will never read --help anyway :D
2021-04-10 19:27:03 +0000 <myme> chances are *I'm* the only user :D
2021-04-10 19:27:15 +0000 <maerwald> then I'd go with funny names
2021-04-10 19:27:52 +0000 <maerwald> also: color vs colour
2021-04-10 19:27:56 +0000 <maerwald> easy hack
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2021-04-10 20:50:09 +0000 <d34df00d> Is there a library that provides unboxed multidimensional vectors?
2021-04-10 20:51:24 +0000neiluj(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net)
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2021-04-10 20:52:04 +0000 <d34df00d> Suppose I want to work with a vector of n-tuples of 64 words. Right now, I have to either do V.Vector (V.Vector (VU.Vector Word)), where V = Data.Vector and VU = Data.Vector.Unboxed, giving me quite some extra indirections I don't need.
2021-04-10 20:52:39 +0000 <d34df00d> I also know about repa, but I have to interface with some Vector-supporting code.
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2021-04-10 21:01:34 +0000 <wz1000> d34df00d: vector-sized
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2021-04-10 21:24:02 +0000 <d34df00d> wz1000: hmm, not sure it enables the multidimensional unboxed vectors.s
2021-04-10 21:24:24 +0000 <d34df00d> Although size in types is nice, I'll have a use for it in another part of my stuff.
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2021-04-10 21:26:36 +0000 <wz1000> d34df00d: it does, once you have known sizes you can define Storable and Unbox instances
2021-04-10 21:26:36 +0000chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08)
2021-04-10 21:26:48 +0000 <wz1000> that is exactly what is done in vector-sized
2021-04-10 21:27:06 +0000 <d34df00d> Maybe I've missed it in the docs, let me take another look.
2021-04-10 21:27:37 +0000 <wz1000> d34df00d: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-sized-1.4.0.0/docs/src/Data.Vector.Generic.Sized.html#l…
2021-04-10 21:27:53 +0000jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-04-10 21:27:59 +0000 <d34df00d> Ah right, (Unbox a, KnownNat n) => Unbox (Vector Vector n a)
2021-04-10 21:28:02 +0000 <d34df00d> Missed that on the first reading.
2021-04-10 21:28:11 +0000 <d34df00d> Yeah, that does the trick for me, thanks!
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2021-04-10 21:29:51 +0000 <tomsmeding> maerwald: "also: color vs colour" -- clearly the best answer
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2021-04-10 21:50:15 +0000 <hololeap> this is one of those silly questions of preference, but which is better: *> or >>
2021-04-10 21:50:28 +0000 <hololeap> (when dealing with a Monad)
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2021-04-10 21:52:35 +0000 <hololeap> on one hand, (*>) reminds us that the operation doesn't use the "full power" of the monad, but (>>) looks cleaner visually
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2021-04-10 21:54:25 +0000 <hololeap> it seems to me that in an ideal world, Applicative would have (>>) and you would just use that
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2021-04-10 21:56:49 +0000 <hololeap> although (*>) reminds us of (<*>) and therefore sort of explains what it does visually
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2021-04-10 22:02:14 +0000 <hololeap> anyway, just curious which of these has a bigger bandwagon
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2021-04-10 22:07:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> hololeap: *> has <* while there is no <<
2021-04-10 22:07:33 +0000gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-10 22:07:40 +0000tomsmedingwould like >> and <<
2021-04-10 22:07:42 +0000gxt_(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt)
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2021-04-10 22:08:33 +0000 <hololeap> oh, i didn't realize that
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2021-04-10 22:25:53 +0000 <gentauro> tomsmeding: you already have `>>` right?
2021-04-10 22:25:58 +0000 <gentauro> that's the `bind` operator
2021-04-10 22:26:22 +0000ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
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2021-04-10 22:27:46 +0000 <gentauro> do
2021-04-10 22:28:02 +0000 <gentauro> foo =
2021-04-10 22:28:08 +0000 <gentauro> putStrLn "foo"
2021-04-10 22:28:16 +0000 <gentauro> >> putStrLn "bar"
2021-04-10 22:28:24 +0000 <gentauro> (forget about the first do)
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2021-04-10 22:34:22 +0000hypercube(hypercube@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/hypercube)
2021-04-10 22:35:08 +0000 <infinisil> :t (<>)
2021-04-10 22:35:09 +0000 <lambdabot> Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
2021-04-10 22:35:13 +0000 <infinisil> :t (*>)
2021-04-10 22:35:14 +0000 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b
2021-04-10 22:35:17 +0000 <infinisil> :t (>>)
2021-04-10 22:35:19 +0000 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
2021-04-10 22:35:27 +0000 <infinisil> (ignore (<>))
2021-04-10 22:36:32 +0000 <infinisil> Is there a reason >> couldn't be removed from Monad?
2021-04-10 22:37:22 +0000jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-10 22:39:11 +0000 <gentauro> infinisil: why would you remove it?
2021-04-10 22:39:23 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-10 22:39:25 +0000 <gentauro> I use it a lot (I tend not to write with do-notation)
2021-04-10 22:39:34 +0000 <gentauro> therefore I use both `>>` and `>>=`
2021-04-10 22:40:00 +0000puffnfresh1(~puffnfres@119-17-138-164.77118a.mel.static.aussiebb.net)
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2021-04-10 22:43:25 +0000jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-04-10 22:49:10 +0000 <d34df00d> I prefer *> because less constraints.
2021-04-10 22:50:20 +0000 <justsomeguy> I have a type ''data Three a b c = Three a b c deriving (Eq, Show)'', and an instance for it, ''instance Foldable (Three b c) where { foldMap f (Three _ _ c) = f c }''. Why is it that I can define an instance like ''instance Foldable (Three b c)'' but not ''instance Foldable (Three a b c)''? How do I know which type arguments can't be used, and why?
2021-04-10 22:51:36 +0000Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-10 22:51:46 +0000 <justsomeguy> I see that Data.Foldable has ''type Foldable :: (* -> *) -> Constraint''. What is that?
2021-04-10 22:52:18 +0000geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-10 22:53:49 +0000 <justsomeguy> I feel like I'm missing something basic about how kind signatures work, or how to define instances, but I'm not sure exactly what.
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2021-04-10 23:22:02 +0000 <edwardk> justsomeguy: it'll always peel off arguments from the right. Consider if you could do otherwise. e.g. I might want fmap to map over the left half of a pair or to map over the right half of a pair, and i just call 'fmap (+1) (2,3)' -- which fmap did i mean?
2021-04-10 23:22:29 +0000falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-10 23:22:31 +0000 <edwardk> justsomeguy: to ensure that instance resolution is always unambiguous there are no 'type lambdas' that you can use for the instance descriptions.
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2021-04-10 23:23:25 +0000 <edwardk> Foldable :: (Type -> Type) -> Constraint -- is a way to say that it is a constraint that works on any type constructor of kind Type -> Type. (Type is another way to say *, you can import it from Data.Kind.
2021-04-10 23:23:48 +0000 <edwardk> It might be easier to start with something like Eq :: Type -> Constraint or Ord :: Type -> Constraint.
2021-04-10 23:24:08 +0000epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-10 23:24:10 +0000 <edwardk> Int :: Type; so we can talk about Eq Int :: Constraint
2021-04-10 23:24:19 +0000hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga)
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2021-04-10 23:24:38 +0000 <edwardk> that is the type of 'proofs' or 'dictionaries' that Int is an instance of Eq.
2021-04-10 23:24:50 +0000 <edwardk> you use those on the left of => to carry along the constraint.
2021-04-10 23:25:08 +0000 <edwardk> e.g. sort :: Ord a => [a] -> [a]
2021-04-10 23:25:30 +0000haskellstudent(~quassel@213-225-6-101.nat.highway.a1.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-10 23:25:54 +0000 <edwardk> Going back to your "Three" type. you have Three :: Type -> Type -> Type -> Type; Three Int :: Type -> Type -> Type; Three Int Bool :: Type -> Type
2021-04-10 23:26:12 +0000 <edwardk> now you have something of the right form that you could pass it to Foldable or Functor or Traversable
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2021-04-10 23:33:06 +0000 <justsomeguy> Ok, interesting.
2021-04-10 23:33:31 +0000 <justsomeguy> So why is that I can define an instance by ignoring the innermost type variables at all? Shouldn't I have to make a type alias, first, or something, to get rid of the unused type arguments?
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2021-04-10 23:34:11 +0000 <c_wraith> nah. types are curried, just like values
2021-04-10 23:34:41 +0000 <c_wraith> you can use `map show' without assigning it to a name
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2021-04-10 23:52:10 +0000 <koz_> Does {Haskell, GHC} allow _prefix_ operators?
2021-04-10 23:52:22 +0000 <koz_> I assume 'no', but maybe there's some magic-AF extension which does.
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