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2021/04/01

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2021-04-01 00:27:48 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2021-04-01 00:30:19 +0200MrMobius(~MrMobius@208.58.206.154)
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2021-04-01 00:46:12 +0200cmeans(0cbb7484@12.187.116.132)
2021-04-01 00:46:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-01 00:48:26 +0200 <cmeans> Hi, newbie to Haskell...going through Youtube videos at present...got a random question...is there a way to declare a type of List that has a fixed length?
2021-04-01 00:48:55 +0200 <cmeans> Sort of, type Row a = [a], length [a] == 7
2021-04-01 00:49:17 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2021-04-01 00:54:50 +0200 <hpc> is this a "point me at a package" question or a "how would it work" question?
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2021-04-01 00:58:57 +0200argento(~argent0@191.81.225.82)
2021-04-01 01:00:07 +0200 <cmeans> More of a can it be done, if it even makes sense, and if so, how.
2021-04-01 01:00:52 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
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2021-04-01 01:01:03 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:513e:9602:428e:657f)
2021-04-01 01:01:21 +0200Guest89795(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-04-01 01:01:34 +0200 <cmeans> I'm a seasoned programmer, but new to functional programming.
2021-04-01 01:01:46 +0200 <hpc> so, it does make sense
2021-04-01 01:02:07 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:513e:9602:428e:657f) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 01:02:09 +0200 <hpc> and the generalization of that idea is one of my favorite topics in computer science
2021-04-01 01:02:17 +0200 <cmeans> OK, I'm ahead by 1.
2021-04-01 01:02:17 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:02:32 +0200 <hpc> the thing to google is "dependent types", meaning types that depend on values
2021-04-01 01:02:36 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:02:59 +0200 <cmeans> Excellent.  I'm off.  Thanks hpc.
2021-04-01 01:03:09 +0200 <hpc> or in other words, type-level functions that take value-level things as parameters
2021-04-01 01:03:14 +0200 <hpc> :D
2021-04-01 01:03:43 +0200 <cmeans> =L
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2021-04-01 01:25:10 +0200 <dmwit> ?pl \n -> scanl (\v i -> v * (n-i+1) `div` i) 1 [1..n]
2021-04-01 01:25:10 +0200 <lambdabot> ap (flip scanl 1 . flip ((.) . (*)) . join . (div .) . flip flip 1 . ((+) .) . (-)) (enumFromTo 1)
2021-04-01 01:25:36 +0200 <dmwit> ?let f = \n -> scanl (\v i -> v * (n-i+1) `div` i) 1 [1..n]; g = ap (flip scanl 1 . flip ((.) . (*)) . join . (div .) . flip flip 1 . ((+) .) . (-)) (enumFromTo 1)
2021-04-01 01:25:38 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-04-01 01:25:42 +0200 <dmwit> > f 10
2021-04-01 01:25:43 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-04-01 01:25:43 +0200 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘f’
2021-04-01 01:25:43 +0200 <lambdabot> It could refer to
2021-04-01 01:25:47 +0200 <dmwit> ?undefine
2021-04-01 01:25:47 +0200 <lambdabot> Undefined.
2021-04-01 01:25:57 +0200 <dmwit> ?let pointful = \n -> scanl (\v i -> v * (n-i+1) `div` i) 1 [1..n]; pointless = ap (flip scanl 1 . flip ((.) . (*)) . join . (div .) . flip flip 1 . ((+) .) . (-)) (enumFromTo 1)
2021-04-01 01:25:58 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-04-01 01:26:01 +0200 <dmwit> > pointful 10
2021-04-01 01:26:03 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1]
2021-04-01 01:26:04 +0200 <dmwit> > pointless 10
2021-04-01 01:26:05 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,10,40,80,80,80,0,0,0,0,0]
2021-04-01 01:26:23 +0200 <dmwit> ?
2021-04-01 01:27:12 +0200Guest41032(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-01 01:27:30 +0200 <hpc> :t pointful
2021-04-01 01:27:31 +0200 <lambdabot> Integral a => a -> [a]
2021-04-01 01:27:34 +0200 <hpc> :t pointless
2021-04-01 01:27:35 +0200 <lambdabot> Integral a => a -> [a]
2021-04-01 01:27:35 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-01 01:27:40 +0200 <hpc> oh wait, duh
2021-04-01 01:27:52 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 01:29:16 +0200 <dmwit> Ah, I bet this is the bug:
2021-04-01 01:29:22 +0200 <dmwit> ?pl \x y z -> x * y `div` z
2021-04-01 01:29:22 +0200 <lambdabot> (. div) . (.) . (*)
2021-04-01 01:29:29 +0200 <dmwit> ?pl \x y z -> x * (y `div` z)
2021-04-01 01:29:29 +0200 <lambdabot> (. div) . (.) . (*)
2021-04-01 01:29:57 +0200 <hpc> > 6 * 4 `div` 3
2021-04-01 01:29:59 +0200 <lambdabot> 8
2021-04-01 01:30:01 +0200 <dmwit> ?pl \n -> scanl (\v i -> (v * (n-i+1)) `div` i) 1 [1..n]
2021-04-01 01:30:01 +0200 <lambdabot> ap (flip scanl 1 . flip flip id . (liftM2 div .) . flip ((.) . (*)) . flip flip 1 . ((+) .) . (-)) (enumFromTo 1)
2021-04-01 01:30:19 +0200 <hpc> > ((. div) . (.) . (*)) 6 4 3
2021-04-01 01:30:21 +0200 <lambdabot> 6
2021-04-01 01:30:24 +0200 <hpc> fun
2021-04-01 01:30:30 +0200 <dmwit> ?let pointless' = ap (flip scanl 1 . flip flip id . (liftM2 div .) . flip ((.) . (*)) . flip flip 1 . ((+) .) . (-)) (enumFromTo 1)
2021-04-01 01:30:31 +0200 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-04-01 01:30:35 +0200yunusaydin(4eb8266d@78.184.38.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 01:30:37 +0200 <dmwit> > pointless' 10
2021-04-01 01:30:39 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,10,45,120,210,252,210,120,45,10,1]
2021-04-01 01:30:47 +0200 <dmwit> yay!
2021-04-01 01:31:00 +0200 <larryba> dmwit, does that relate to haskell in any way? using dependent types for fixed length arrays
2021-04-01 01:31:58 +0200 <dmwit> ...what?
2021-04-01 01:32:25 +0200 <larryba> s/dmwit/hpc
2021-04-01 01:33:02 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 01:33:03 +0200 <hpc> someday, yes
2021-04-01 01:33:19 +0200 <hpc> i considered explaining the current methods, but figured it was cleaner to point straight to the end goal
2021-04-01 01:33:39 +0200 <hpc> then when they come back they have a better frame of reference for data kinds and whatnot
2021-04-01 01:33:58 +0200 <larryba> seems like a waste of time for someone who is just trying to learn haskell, which is the impression I got
2021-04-01 01:34:03 +0200 <hpc> ghc is eventually getting full dependent types
2021-04-01 01:34:20 +0200 <hpc> yeah, i clarified first and it was academic curiosity
2021-04-01 01:35:13 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:35:27 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-04-01 01:35:36 +0200 <dmwit> For what it's worth, I found the whole singletons thing much easier to follow once I had seen the dependent types version.
2021-04-01 01:36:12 +0200 <dmwit> So even if you just want to learn how to do this kind of thing in today's Haskell it may not be a waste of time.
2021-04-01 01:37:11 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:37:22 +0200 <larryba> when someone new to haskell asks for fixed-length list, I think they are thinking more in terms of int array[20];, not dependent types in idris
2021-04-01 01:37:30 +0200 <dmwit> Although reading back, another answer I would consider giving in this situation is `data ListOfLength7 a = ListOfLength7 a a a a a a a`. =P
2021-04-01 01:37:58 +0200 <dmwit> Well, see, `int array[20]` is a really interesting declaration. This property is not actually checked by the compiler.
2021-04-01 01:38:35 +0200 <dmwit> e.g. if you write `void foo(int array[20]); int bar[7];`, then `foo(bar)` is "well-typed" according to the C compiler.
2021-04-01 01:38:38 +0200 <larryba> dmwit, it certainly is. sizeof array, which is evaluated at compile time, returns sizeof(int) * 20
2021-04-01 01:38:48 +0200 <pjb> or something like: data ListOfLength n a = a ListOfLength (n-1) a ; ListOfLength 0 a = () -- ?
2021-04-01 01:38:59 +0200 <hpc> int array[20] is more like foo :: Array a; foo = newEmptyArray 20
2021-04-01 01:39:17 +0200 <hpc> because when you write your functions that operate on that array, the type signature is int[], not int[20]
2021-04-01 01:39:46 +0200 <dmwit> pjb: That kind of thing is cromulent with dependent types, but not with plain Haskell. (There is a variant that works in today's GHC-based Haskell, but it's much more verbose.)
2021-04-01 01:39:57 +0200 <pjb> ok
2021-04-01 01:40:15 +0200 <hpc> and not particularly satisfying for someone to which "I'm a seasoned programmer, but new to functional programming." applies
2021-04-01 01:40:18 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:40:42 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-04-01 01:40:54 +0200 <hpc> tuples aren't terribly new either, anyone can write struct {a thingone; a thingtwo; ...}
2021-04-01 01:40:58 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: Yes, but (as I allude to above) `sizeof` is not the only consumer of arrays.
2021-04-01 01:41:25 +0200larryba(~bc8134e3@199.204.85.195) (Disconnected by services)
2021-04-01 01:41:28 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: And indeed even `sizeof` does not survive a function-call boundary.
2021-04-01 01:41:35 +0200larryba(~bc8134e3@1582020-static.lxtnkya3.metronetinc.net)
2021-04-01 01:41:39 +0200 <larryba> dmwit, that's because array in void foo(int array[20]) is not an array, it is a pointer to int
2021-04-01 01:42:18 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: Right. So in C, it's not possible to write a type that is an array of a given length and have the compiler check this property.
2021-04-01 01:42:26 +0200 <larryba> it is C's syntactic weirdness, that applies only to function arguments
2021-04-01 01:42:39 +0200 <dmwit> Functions are kind a core to programming. =)
2021-04-01 01:43:45 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 01:43:47 +0200 <larryba> dmwit, that's not correct; int main() { int array[100]; sizeof array returns sizeof(int) * 100
2021-04-01 01:44:04 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: Right. So?
2021-04-01 01:44:06 +0200geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 01:44:24 +0200 <larryba> so.. compiled checked that property (length), with compile-time construct, sizeof
2021-04-01 01:44:27 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: Just because one part of the language gets this right doesn't mean all parts of the language get it right.
2021-04-01 01:44:29 +0200 <larryba> compiler*
2021-04-01 01:44:30 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 01:45:23 +0200 <dmwit> (I am perfectly happy to ignore the bit of the language that lets you write an incorrect cast. Pretty much every language offers this.)
2021-04-01 01:46:47 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: Or, for another example that doesn't involve function boundaries: how would I write the type "pointer to array[20]" and have the compiler check that I only ever write pointers to correct-length arrays in there?
2021-04-01 01:46:55 +0200 <larryba> btw I'm not sure what C's array-to-pointer decay has to do with my initial point
2021-04-01 01:47:36 +0200 <dmwit> My point is that you think `int[20]` is easy. But it isn't, and the fact that it "appears" easy in C is deceptive.
2021-04-01 01:47:46 +0200 <larryba> so now you want bounds checking?
2021-04-01 01:47:50 +0200 <dmwit> To do a good job of it, you more or less have to go all the way to dependent types.
2021-04-01 01:47:57 +0200 <dmwit> No, not bounds checking. Only length checking.
2021-04-01 01:48:00 +0200 <dmwit> Which was the original request.
2021-04-01 01:48:25 +0200 <dmwit> I do not demand that my runtime index be checked to be in bounds. Only that arrays stored in a variable have a given length.
2021-04-01 01:48:45 +0200Axman6(~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
2021-04-01 01:49:08 +0200 <larryba> void foo(int (*array)[20]) <- ignoring casts, you can only pass a pointer to array of 20 ints to this function. if you try to pass a pointer to 21 ints, you will get a compile time diagnostic
2021-04-01 01:49:35 +0200 <larryba> but arrays in C have the knowledge of their length. you are confusing them with pointers, which is what you get when you pass an array to a function
2021-04-01 01:49:47 +0200 <larryba> (unless you wrap it in a struct)
2021-04-01 01:53:04 +0200 <dmwit> Okay!
2021-04-01 01:53:30 +0200 <dmwit> There's lots of fun operations that int[20] doesn't offer. But I agree that it is better than I thought it was.
2021-04-01 01:55:42 +0200 <dmwit> (e.g. I doubt you can implement `void concat(int (*out)[m+n], int(*a)[m], int(*b)[n])` in any meaningful way. But then C doesn't pretend to offer polymorphism in the first place.)
2021-04-01 01:57:27 +0200 <larryba> of course you can't, but that was my point, I'm pretty sure OP just wondered if there's a fixed size list-like data structure, like plain, dumb array in C, and now he's googling about dependent types :)
2021-04-01 01:58:33 +0200 <dmwit> Maybe! Hard to know what was in OP's head.
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2021-04-01 02:03:19 +0200borne(~fritjof@vpn05.bremen.freifunk.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 02:03:22 +0200 <dmwit> larryba: For context, one FAQ, both here and on StackOverflow, is this one: https://stackoverflow.com/q/11910143/791604 . I think it's pretty reasonable to see "how do I restrict my lists to have a specific length" and for your mind to go to this place, given that history.
2021-04-01 02:03:33 +0200darthThorik(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yyblajqqwaweohku) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-04-01 02:04:14 +0200 <dmwit> (In other words, to go from "how do I create this specific compile-time check" to "how do I go from an arbitrary compile-time check to an implementation of that check".)
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2021-04-01 02:04:36 +0200 <dmwit> It's very common to ask specific questions as stand-ins for general ones.
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2021-04-01 02:05:28 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 02:05:31 +0200darthThorik(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncuamoriibwvdwrv)
2021-04-01 02:05:57 +0200 <dmwit> e.g. in the linked question's comments, the asker there makes it clear that they are doing so: the question is about numbers >0, but they want to know also how to do types for non-empty lists, sorted lists, and strings that are valid CC numbers.
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2021-04-01 02:10:54 +0200 <larryba> I'm not sure that question is unambiguously about dependent types either (I just read the original question, not further replies by the OP, if there are any). it could just as easily mean: "does haskell have unsigned int type". it would be clearer if the question was about integers > 1
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2021-04-01 02:15:57 +0200larryba(~bc8134e3@1582020-static.lxtnkya3.metronetinc.net) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Error))
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2021-04-01 02:17:08 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-04-01 02:17:10 +0200 <larryba> so yes, it appears that his question was related to dependent types. "Non-empty lists? Sorted lists? Strings that are valid credit card numbers? - synapse Aug 11 '12"
2021-04-01 02:17:28 +0200Axma70544(~Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
2021-04-01 02:17:45 +0200 <larryba> but imagine if it wasn't, that it was just a newbie asking "does haskell have unsigned int type, like C, or it doesn't, like java", and then getting a bunch of replies talking about dependent types, and peano numbers. :). which is a reply he got 1 day prior to quote message above
2021-04-01 02:18:18 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 02:18:23 +0200 <larryba> quoted*
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2021-04-01 02:56:11 +0200jules_(~jules@ip201.ip-135-125-227.eu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 02:56:22 +0200 <koz_> I have this in a heap profile: (674)concat.go/run/concat/... 12977352
2021-04-01 02:56:26 +0200 <koz_> What does this refer to>
2021-04-01 02:56:27 +0200 <koz_> ?*
2021-04-01 02:56:27 +0200 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? .
2021-04-01 02:57:10 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
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2021-04-01 02:59:12 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
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2021-04-01 03:06:00 +0200 <koz_> :t foldl'
2021-04-01 03:06:01 +0200 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2021-04-01 03:06:24 +0200 <cmeans> Yes, so dependent-types wasn't as directly helpful as I might have hoped...so clearly I didn't frame my question well enough
2021-04-01 03:07:06 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lksmeqawycwfpajp) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-01 03:08:58 +0200 <cmeans> Say I'm writing a program to solve a Sudoku puzzle (watching a YT series), and I was looking at testing validity of an existing game (constructed as a List of List of elements).
2021-04-01 03:09:07 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.10) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-04-01 03:10:06 +0200 <cmeans> It seemed like a simple way to force some validness, would be to make sure that a given row could only have 9 elements in it's List.  And that there would only be 9 Lists.
2021-04-01 03:11:13 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-04-01 03:11:14 +0200 <cmeans> Looking for directions to a solution that exists today.
2021-04-01 03:11:41 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 03:12:01 +0200 <koz_> cmeans: vector-sized might help.
2021-04-01 03:12:19 +0200 <koz_> Since then you can just say 'my board is 'Vector 9 (Vector 9 Int)', any questions')
2021-04-01 03:13:00 +0200 <cmeans> I saw that in my search.  So, I'd use a Vector instead of a List.  And Vector is in a package i can import?
2021-04-01 03:13:10 +0200 <koz_> cmeans: Yes - vector-sized.
2021-04-01 03:13:35 +0200 <cmeans> OK.  Thanks koz_
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2021-04-01 05:17:08 +0200codygman__(~user@47.186.207.161) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:21:32 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-04-01 05:22:58 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 05:25:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-01 05:27:11 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:27:27 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 05:27:55 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-04-01 05:28:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 05:29:41 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:31:41 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:33:45 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 05:38:21 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 05:39:22 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 05:44:12 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:44:12 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:49:08 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 05:49:12 +0200ephemient(uid407513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kreuktrxowjvrjcm) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-01 05:51:08 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 05:51:47 +0200astroanax(~astroanax@cosmic.voyage)
2021-04-01 05:53:10 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251) (Quit: Leaving...)
2021-04-01 05:54:19 +0200solidus-river(~fuag1@174.127.249.180)
2021-04-01 05:54:21 +0200Guest50609(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:56:18 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 05:57:26 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-01 06:01:07 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 06:01:27 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 06:01:58 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:02:52 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 06:03:13 +0200finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-04-01 06:03:21 +0200bugbot(~bugbot@185.169.233.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 06:04:58 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-04-01 06:06:53 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 06:11:05 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:11:15 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:13:33 +0200rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwmlwlhxosxfeijx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-01 06:14:53 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221)
2021-04-01 06:15:35 +0200average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ygfxxolhucppzalr) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-01 06:15:36 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:8c70:d1a1:78da:927)
2021-04-01 06:18:06 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 06:18:26 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 06:22:54 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-04-01 06:25:27 +0200Guest41032(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-01 06:29:31 +0200Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-091-249-083-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-04-01 06:30:58 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 06:35:46 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:8c70:d1a1:78da:927) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-01 06:38:24 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:43:02 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2021-04-01 06:45:38 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 06:47:02 +0200n3glv1(~n3glv@195.140.213.38)
2021-04-01 06:47:48 +0200laudiacay(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-01 06:48:11 +0200laudiacayGuest40784
2021-04-01 06:48:41 +0200Guest41032(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:50:22 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:54:17 +0200elliott_(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 06:55:30 +0200mice-user(b4960d8b@180-150-13-139.b4960d.syd.static.aussiebb.net)
2021-04-01 06:59:03 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 07:00:23 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-04-01 07:01:32 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-04-01 07:02:47 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.120.166) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-04-01 07:22:38 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 07:23:30 +0200electricityZZZZ(~electrici@135-180-3-82.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 07:24:34 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 07:24:51 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 07:26:36 +0200tromp_(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 07:26:36 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:28:07 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 07:28:10 +0200tromp_(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:29:08 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:29:25 +0200egorbelibov(~65676f72@2001:8a0:5708:2a00:bc7d:b8d3:66cd:f4d7)
2021-04-01 07:29:56 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egpkeeper@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 07:30:47 +0200stass(~stas@2a00:13c0:63:7195::beef) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-01 07:30:48 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-04-01 07:31:02 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 07:33:49 +0200tromp_(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 07:34:16 +0200egorbelibov(~65676f72@2001:8a0:5708:2a00:bc7d:b8d3:66cd:f4d7) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 07:34:34 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:34:49 +0200egorbelibov(~65676f72@2001:8a0:5708:2a00:bc7d:b8d3:66cd:f4d7)
2021-04-01 07:39:11 +0200tromp_(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 07:39:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-01 07:41:40 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:41:59 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 07:42:03 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egpkeeper@2.95.145.35) (Quit: reboot)
2021-04-01 07:42:41 +0200larryba(~bc8134e3@199.204.85.195) (Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout))
2021-04-01 07:43:12 +0200raym(~ray@115.187.32.14)
2021-04-01 07:43:58 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egpkeeper@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 07:44:33 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 07:45:58 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-04-01 07:46:57 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egpkeeper@2.95.145.35) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 07:47:40 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 07:47:58 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:48:10 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 07:48:23 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-01 07:50:19 +0200keeperegp_(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 07:50:28 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 07:50:30 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-04-01 07:50:48 +0200keeperegp_(~egp_@2.95.145.35) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 07:51:17 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 07:55:27 +0200n3glv1(~n3glv@195.140.213.38) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 07:57:18 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-04-01 07:58:28 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 07:58:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 08:00:00 +0200Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-991c-1dc0-e1e7-ba3a.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-01 08:00:04 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-04-01 08:00:23 +0200AlleriaGuest6052
2021-04-01 08:02:58 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2021-04-01 08:03:07 +0200Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2603-7000-3040-0000-501f-0d46-1115-b500.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 08:03:57 +0200Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-04-01 08:04:21 +0200Guest6052(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-991c-1dc0-e1e7-ba3a.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:05:06 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:06:03 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-04-01 08:06:09 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 08:06:21 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-04-01 08:06:45 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 08:06:53 +0200Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2603-7000-3040-0000-71b7-9570-ff4e-402c.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-01 08:07:07 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 08:07:27 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 08:10:13 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-04-01 08:10:18 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 08:10:20 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:10:40 +0200b0o(~b0o@178.239.168.171)
2021-04-01 08:17:05 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:7198:37f0:c930:b5b2) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 08:17:32 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 08:17:50 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-01 08:20:12 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 08:22:00 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 08:22:15 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:23:28 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 08:23:29 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:29:56 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@nat.brnet.cz) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:30:44 +0200graf_blutwurst(~user@2001:171b:226e:adc0:7c51:155f:af77:886d)
2021-04-01 08:32:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:33:17 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-01 08:33:26 +0200borne(~fritjof@vpn05.bremen.freifunk.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:36:03 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-04-01 08:36:05 +0200aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:906c:b23f:e55d:e8aa) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:36:37 +0200tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-04-01 08:36:55 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 08:38:16 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-04-01 08:39:14 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 08:40:42 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82b82cb00ccce0741ed796e9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-01 08:41:22 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2021-04-01 08:41:49 +0200tionos(~tionos@2a0b:b7c4:1:731::1) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-01 08:42:59 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-01 08:43:06 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 08:43:13 +0200tionos(~tionos@2a0b:b7c4:1:731::1)
2021-04-01 08:43:44 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 08:44:48 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2021-04-01 08:45:05 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82b82cb00ccce0741ed796e9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:45:07 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 08:45:22 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 08:47:30 +0200tionos(~tionos@2a0b:b7c4:1:731::1) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 08:47:35 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qufpuczcdkidmfvl) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-01 08:48:07 +0200tionos(~tionos@we.like.to.party.intercop.de)
2021-04-01 08:49:41 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 08:53:07 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 08:53:28 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 08:54:48 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 08:56:12 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-04-01 08:57:22 +0200Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-04-01 09:01:29 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-04-01 09:01:41 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 09:02:22 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 09:04:42 +0200solidus-river(~fuag1@174.127.249.180) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-01 09:05:10 +0200thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202)
2021-04-01 09:14:50 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-01 09:15:08 +0200plutoniix(~q@184.82.205.153)
2021-04-01 09:15:27 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82ba62a00b57266e1f2f5f95c.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-01 09:17:58 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 09:18:46 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@195.146.105.8)
2021-04-01 09:23:38 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-04-01 09:23:59 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 09:28:01 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.55.131.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-01 09:28:50 +0200chele(~chele@ip5b40237d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-04-01 09:29:02 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 09:30:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 09:32:36 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-04-01 09:32:49 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net)
2021-04-01 09:34:32 +0200gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-04-01 09:35:25 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:a12:3c82:3e59:5dc8)
2021-04-01 09:38:41 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer)
2021-04-01 09:41:12 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35) (Quit: EXIT)
2021-04-01 09:41:25 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 09:42:30 +0200Guest55480(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de)
2021-04-01 09:44:07 +0200borne(~fritjof@vpn05.bremen.freifunk.net)
2021-04-01 09:45:32 +0200keeperasmexcalibkeeperegp_
2021-04-01 09:45:47 +0200keeperegp_keeperasmexcalib
2021-04-01 09:46:46 +0200enoq(~textual@194-208-146-143.lampert.tv)
2021-04-01 09:49:24 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35) (Quit: EXIT)
2021-04-01 09:49:39 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 09:50:28 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 09:51:15 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:4407:2f20:7750:6b41)
2021-04-01 09:52:20 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com)
2021-04-01 09:52:30 +0200Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qtinzdfibqjwmcbv)
2021-04-01 09:52:50 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 09:55:09 +0200epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-01 09:55:20 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:6e66:db7b:b46b:3ed1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 09:55:39 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:8211:8912:237:8e05)
2021-04-01 09:55:49 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:4407:2f20:7750:6b41) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 09:56:42 +0200Kaeipi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 09:56:45 +0200gitgood(~gitgood@80-44-12-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) (Quit: Probably away to do something really awesome)
2021-04-01 09:57:22 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 09:58:09 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-04-01 09:58:36 +0200ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:02:58 +0200xsperry(~as@unaffiliated/xsperry) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:04:53 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-04-01 10:05:09 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-01 10:06:52 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-04-01 10:06:58 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga)
2021-04-01 10:08:06 +0200epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:09:33 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:13:57 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:14:56 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw)
2021-04-01 10:15:22 +0200hiroaki1(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:d207:ae60:71f:5548) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:18:15 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221)
2021-04-01 10:21:09 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:22:11 +0200Erutuon_(~Erutuon@97-116-27-119.mpls.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:23:10 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Quit: See You Space Cowboy..)
2021-04-01 10:24:36 +0200xsperry(~as@unaffiliated/xsperry)
2021-04-01 10:25:41 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:26:15 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.112.245)
2021-04-01 10:26:29 +0200texasmynsted_(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112)
2021-04-01 10:26:48 +0200texasmynsted(~texasmyns@99.96.221.112) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:27:39 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 10:32:33 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 10:34:47 +0200vgtw(~vgtw@gateway/tor-sasl/vgtw)
2021-04-01 10:35:16 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-01 10:35:49 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-01 10:35:52 +0200keeperasmexcalib(~egp_@2.95.145.35)
2021-04-01 10:36:27 +0200b0o(~b0o@178.239.168.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 10:39:04 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-01 10:39:05 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-01 10:39:29 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:39:38 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@195.146.105.8) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:39:39 +0200chrisbloecker[m](chrisbloec@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qtnhzftldpcdhpmw)
2021-04-01 10:40:21 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82ba62a00b57266e1f2f5f95c.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:41:49 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:41:56 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:45:49 +0200jhrcek(~jhrcek@ip-89-103-183-101.net.upcbroadband.cz)
2021-04-01 10:49:56 +0200Gurkenglas_(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:53:11 +0200borne(~fritjof@vpn05.bremen.freifunk.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 10:58:18 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-04-01 11:00:50 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-04-01 11:01:24 +0200borne(~fritjof@2a06:8782:ffbb:1337:ce73:3416:bcd:fc35)
2021-04-01 11:05:51 +0200tmciver(~tmciver@cpe-172-101-40-226.maine.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 11:07:14 +0200tmciver(~tmciver@cpe-172-101-40-226.maine.res.rr.com)
2021-04-01 11:08:20 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:f447:382a:8162:5190)
2021-04-01 11:11:49 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.39)
2021-04-01 11:19:39 +0200shutdown_-h_now(~arjan@2001:1c06:2d0b:2312:49d1:c68b:dd68:855d) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 11:20:02 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 11:24:23 +0200zigapeda1(~zigapeda@185.169.233.10)
2021-04-01 11:25:12 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 11:25:53 +0200shutdown_-h_now(~arjan@2001:1c06:2d0b:2312:b9ee:34c0:cea7:8b6)
2021-04-01 11:29:41 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 11:34:39 +0200glaceon(~glaceon@117.222.69.43) ()
2021-04-01 11:35:57 +0200yunusaydin(4eb8266d@78.184.38.109)
2021-04-01 11:38:56 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 11:39:33 +0200dyamon(~dyamon@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust662.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-01 11:40:06 +0200yunusaydin(4eb8266d@78.184.38.109) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 11:40:49 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 11:48:54 +0200borne(~fritjof@2a06:8782:ffbb:1337:ce73:3416:bcd:fc35) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 11:50:36 +0200borne(~fritjof@200116b86454fa00f7ed9fd86a2491f0.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-01 11:51:23 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i7k0udhl5hu18i.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-04-01 11:53:00 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 11:53:09 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 11:53:29 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 11:54:55 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mioklqbuoxhsafmf)
2021-04-01 11:58:06 +0200tolwiz(4f028693@host-79-2-134-147.business.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 11:59:01 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@2a00:102a:5005:7931:9120:141c:b7d5:f386)
2021-04-01 11:59:08 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 11:59:28 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 12:03:24 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@2a00:102a:5005:7931:9120:141c:b7d5:f386) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:05:58 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-79-53-62-46.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-04-01 12:09:25 +0200stef204(~stef204@unaffiliated/stef-204/x-384198)
2021-04-01 12:13:07 +0200average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iajetmultxvekhqd)
2021-04-01 12:13:26 +0200son0p(~son0p@181.58.39.182)
2021-04-01 12:20:55 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 12:24:58 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:26:36 +0200seanparsons(~sean@cpc145088-gill21-2-0-cust281.20-1.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-01 12:27:12 +0200seanparsons(~sean@cpc145088-gill21-2-0-cust281.20-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-01 12:30:47 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:f447:382a:8162:5190) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 12:34:54 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5314:900:77e4:e687:f355:9c0a) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:36:50 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:532a:9f00:1d8e:1263:4023:e96d)
2021-04-01 12:37:56 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:40:29 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 12:42:23 +0200joes(~joes@ip5f5ac821.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-04-01 12:42:36 +0200borne(~fritjof@200116b86454fa00f7ed9fd86a2491f0.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-01 12:42:38 +0200^jud(~jud@2600:1700:274:bac0:c46e:d9a:a1e:7778)
2021-04-01 12:45:41 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:46:22 +0200jud^(~jud@206.217.205.84) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:46:31 +0200^jud(~jud@2600:1700:274:bac0:c46e:d9a:a1e:7778) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 12:47:01 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@2a00:102a:5005:7931:9120:141c:b7d5:f386)
2021-04-01 12:47:11 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:49:29 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:49:42 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-04-01 12:51:02 +0200cyphase(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase)
2021-04-01 12:51:34 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 12:54:02 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-04-01 12:54:46 +0200pjb(~t@2a01cb04063ec50059fa1e4c7a6ddecf.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:56:55 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-04-01 12:57:06 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 12:57:24 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 12:57:39 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 12:57:44 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 12:58:00 +0200cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 12:58:27 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 12:58:58 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 13:00:06 +0200Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-991c-1dc0-e1e7-ba3a.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-01 13:00:25 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-01 13:00:30 +0200AlleriaGuest61838
2021-04-01 13:02:02 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 13:02:28 +0200LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:02:44 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:02:50 +0200LiaoTao(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
2021-04-01 13:03:12 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-04-01 13:04:18 +0200Guest61838(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-991c-1dc0-e1e7-ba3a.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:05:14 +0200son0p(~son0p@181.58.39.182) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-04-01 13:07:11 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:07:26 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:11:54 +0200ij(~ij@NixOS/user/siers) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-01 13:13:25 +0200siers(~ij@raitis.veinbahs.lv)
2021-04-01 13:14:05 +0200vchlup(~vchlup@2a00:102a:5005:7931:9120:141c:b7d5:f386) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:14:11 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2021-04-01 13:14:11 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2021-04-01 13:14:11 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-04-01 13:16:32 +0200o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-88-181.dsl.telepac.pt)
2021-04-01 13:19:05 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221)
2021-04-01 13:19:58 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 13:20:24 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 13:21:55 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 13:25:11 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:26:06 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:26:26 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 13:26:45 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:27:08 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:27:29 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 13:27:50 +0200cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater)
2021-04-01 13:28:12 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23)
2021-04-01 13:28:51 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 13:28:54 +0200Alleria__(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-04-01 13:30:11 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:32:02 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 13:32:57 +0200siers(~ij@raitis.veinbahs.lv) (Changing host)
2021-04-01 13:32:57 +0200siers(~ij@NixOS/user/siers)
2021-04-01 13:40:07 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-04-01 13:42:37 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin)
2021-04-01 13:49:45 +0200tefter(~bmaxa@62.240.24.69) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-01 13:50:32 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 13:52:07 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-04-01 13:53:32 +0200rodriga(~quassel@134.204.25.66)
2021-04-01 13:53:53 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-04-01 14:00:13 +0200peanut_(~peanut_@2a02:8388:a101:2600:c7aa:4b79:a6fc:833e)
2021-04-01 14:05:22 +0200tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@tomsmeding.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-01 14:05:23 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-01 14:06:39 +0200tomsmeding(~tomsmedin@tomsmeding.com)
2021-04-01 14:07:13 +0200epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-01 14:08:01 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 14:08:38 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 14:09:00 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 14:09:08 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 14:09:27 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 14:10:11 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 14:11:03 +0200dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk)
2021-04-01 14:12:19 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 14:13:54 +0200urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2021-04-01 14:14:30 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net)
2021-04-01 14:15:09 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 14:15:37 +0200Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) ()
2021-04-01 14:16:09 +0200geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-04-01 14:16:12 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 14:20:55 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:532a:9f00:1d8e:1263:4023:e96d) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-01 14:23:19 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@port-92-193-245-55.dynamic.as20676.net)
2021-04-01 14:25:17 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 14:25:32 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
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2021-04-01 14:37:12 +0200 <maerwald> is there a downside of enabling profiling in a release build?
2021-04-01 14:37:24 +0200berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
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2021-04-01 14:41:11 +0200 <Taneb> maerwald: I think it prevents some optimizations
2021-04-01 14:41:32 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
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2021-04-01 14:45:11 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: It inhibits some optimisations, but if the performance is acceptable I think it should have no real problems?
2021-04-01 14:45:28 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Maybe ask a second opinion in #ghc
2021-04-01 14:45:39 +0200motherfsck(~motherfsc@unaffiliated/motherfsck)
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2021-04-01 14:46:51 +0200 <maerwald> hard to trust anyone today
2021-04-01 14:48:23 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:b0ee:e490:ac3d:c5bd)
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2021-04-01 14:49:29 +0200 <maerwald> I'm tired of missing stack traces, so...
2021-04-01 14:49:38 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
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2021-04-01 14:59:56 +0200 <dcbdan> when is point-free style preferred, not preferred? opinions?
2021-04-01 15:00:01 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:532c:6000:33c:78cf:359c:e863)
2021-04-01 15:02:03 +0200vjacob(~vjacob@217.71.0.65) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-04-01 15:04:04 +0200 <timCF> Hello! Can anybody help with the question - how to declare non-haskell dependencies in package.yaml (stack related file)? For example I need to declare somehow that my stack package needs openssl to be built.
2021-04-01 15:04:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> dcbdan: preferred when it's clearer what the expression does in that style :p
2021-04-01 15:05:09 +0200 <tomsmeding> timCF: I'm not sure that's even possible
2021-04-01 15:05:50 +0200 <dcbdan> You could throw Nix at it
2021-04-01 15:06:03 +0200 <timCF> tomsmeding: in cabal there is `build-tool-depends` expression. Is it for this purpose?
2021-04-01 15:06:13 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-04-01 15:06:51 +0200 <maerwald> https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/2.4/developing-packages.html?highlight=pkg-config#pkg-field-pkgcon…
2021-04-01 15:07:07 +0200 <maerwald> throw away package.yaml
2021-04-01 15:07:11 +0200 <maerwald> use cabal
2021-04-01 15:07:18 +0200 <merijn> dcbdan: When it's more readable
2021-04-01 15:07:39 +0200 <timCF> dcbdan: yes, I'm using nix, but problem is that `pkg.nix` for my package is not written by hand, but generated from my package.yaml/cabal file. So I need to put non-haskell deps manually every time when I do change my package.yaml file.
2021-04-01 15:07:50 +0200 <geekosaur> package.yaml is very limited and at some point you'll probably need to switch to cabal files anyway
2021-04-01 15:08:11 +0200tomsmedingdefers to wiser citizens
2021-04-01 15:08:11 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 15:08:52 +0200 <geekosaur> build-tool-depends is for things like happy and alex that generate Haskell code to be compiled
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2021-04-01 15:10:47 +0200 <timCF> tomsmeding: dcbdan: maerwald: geekosaur: thanks!
2021-04-01 15:14:12 +0200 <geekosaur> the pkgconfig field maerwald pointed to is probably the best way because it'll tell cabal exactly what is needed and how to find it; otherwise you'd have to locate the includes and libraries yourself and specify them to cabal
2021-04-01 15:14:39 +0200 <geekosaur> (here I actually mean Cabal the library, I'm not talking about switching to cabal-install)
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2021-04-01 15:18:49 +0200 <hololeap> ok, so i'm trying to grok Coyoneda, and the big thing that i don't get is that if it adds Functor functionality to a non-Functor, it's unusable functionality
2021-04-01 15:19:17 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 15:19:40 +0200 <hololeap> lowerCoyoneda :: Functor f => Coyoneda f a -> f a
2021-04-01 15:20:08 +0200 <hololeap> because extracting (f a) from it still requires `f` to be a Functor
2021-04-01 15:20:18 +0200 <Taneb> hololeap: you can define other functions from Coyoneda
2021-04-01 15:20:34 +0200rond_(59402019@89-64-32-25.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2021-04-01 15:23:00 +0200 <hololeap> Taneb: can you give an example?
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2021-04-01 15:28:57 +0200 <Taneb> hololeap: \(Coyoneda f xs) -> map f (S.toList xs) where import qualified Data.Set as S
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2021-04-01 15:31:24 +0200 <hololeap> ok, i see
2021-04-01 15:31:33 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:d987:a6e5:6815:ac7d)
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2021-04-01 15:37:44 +0200joes(~joes@ip5f5ac821.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) ()
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2021-04-01 15:38:52 +0200 <hololeap> % import Data.Functor.Coyoneda
2021-04-01 15:38:53 +0200 <yahb> hololeap:
2021-04-01 15:39:02 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.112.245)
2021-04-01 15:39:03 +0200 <hololeap> % :t (\f -> lowerCoyoneda . hoistCoyoneda f) :: Functor g => (forall a. f a -> g a) -> Coyoneda f b -> g b
2021-04-01 15:39:03 +0200 <yahb> hololeap: Functor g => (forall a. f a -> g a) -> Coyoneda f b -> g b
2021-04-01 15:39:56 +0200 <hololeap> makes sense
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2021-04-01 16:54:21 +0200 <shapr> Is there a file reading library that reads multiple chunks of a file at the same time?
2021-04-01 16:54:48 +0200 <merijn> shapr: Define chunk?
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2021-04-01 16:55:13 +0200 <merijn> shapr: Also, isn't that just conduit?
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2021-04-01 16:58:38 +0200 <shapr> merijn: is it? Does conduit send a batch of multiple I/O requests for different parts of the file?
2021-04-01 16:59:06 +0200 <merijn> Ah, no
2021-04-01 16:59:24 +0200 <shapr> I've been reading https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2021/03/27/Topfew-and-Amdahl and wondering if I can reproduce the same parallel file reading behavior described
2021-04-01 17:01:18 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 17:01:56 +0200 <shapr> merijn: background reading implies sending multiple requests for different parts of the file is 'faster' when the file can be processed in parallel
2021-04-01 17:02:36 +0200 <merijn> shapr: That seems reasonable
2021-04-01 17:02:46 +0200 <shapr> My reading implies drives are designed to handle a deeper/larger queue of requests
2021-04-01 17:02:50 +0200 <merijn> shapr: But you could just do that using explicit reads on handles?
2021-04-01 17:03:09 +0200 <merijn> shapr: You're familiar with DMA?
2021-04-01 17:03:13 +0200 <shapr> yup
2021-04-01 17:03:30 +0200conal(~conal@192.145.118.200)
2021-04-01 17:03:45 +0200 <shapr> merijn: but not sure how that connects here, explain?
2021-04-01 17:03:47 +0200 <merijn> shapr: Seems that alone is enough to get better parallel results
2021-04-01 17:04:50 +0200 <L29Ah> 17:54:21]<shapr> Is there a file reading library that reads multiple chunks of a file at the same time?
2021-04-01 17:04:51 +0200 <L29Ah> mmap + readahead?
2021-04-01 17:05:00 +0200 <merijn> shapr: If the compute time for 1 page of data is bigger than the transfer time (because you have an SSD or something) then DMA 4 pages, processing those in parallel should be enough to get speedup?
2021-04-01 17:05:17 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-01 17:05:29 +0200 <L29Ah> or madvise
2021-04-01 17:05:37 +0200gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-04-01 17:05:48 +0200 <merijn> shapr: Since DMA takes 0 CPU, if you queue a bunch of DMA accesses and then start processing you'd expect all loads (except the first N) to be free due to overlapping with compute
2021-04-01 17:05:57 +0200 <merijn> shapr: Although, admittedly I haven't read your link
2021-04-01 17:06:12 +0200 <shapr> merijn: sounds reasonable, thanks for the explanation
2021-04-01 17:06:41 +0200 <shapr> L29Ah: I don't know, Tim Bray tried mmap and it wasn't any faster
2021-04-01 17:07:01 +0200 <merijn> shapr: mmap and file reads are most likely the same
2021-04-01 17:07:17 +0200 <merijn> shapr: mmap is just more explicit about what kinda behaviour you want
2021-04-01 17:08:30 +0200 <L29Ah> shapr: anyway, are you sure you aren't hitting the ceiling of your device throughput w/o any hacks? can you show the numbers you got?
2021-04-01 17:09:10 +0200kawzeg(unknown@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fee2:ec34)
2021-04-01 17:09:12 +0200 <L29Ah> OS caches aren't very dumb
2021-04-01 17:09:45 +0200 <merijn> See also: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1814327 :)
2021-04-01 17:09:50 +0200Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2021-04-01 17:10:22 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
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2021-04-01 17:13:20 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-04-01 17:15:19 +0200 <shapr> L29Ah: Hi! I haven't seen you around here before, are you new to Haskell?
2021-04-01 17:15:30 +0200 <shapr> I was the official greeter of #haskell for awhile :-)
2021-04-01 17:16:34 +0200 <L29Ah> i'm poking haskell for >15y, but still haven't committed my code monkey career to it
2021-04-01 17:17:06 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 17:17:10 +0200 <shapr> ah, neato!
2021-04-01 17:18:42 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-01 17:18:45 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
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2021-04-01 17:24:30 +0200 <shapr> L29Ah: do you build fun projects in Haskell? I think my most recent fun thing is https://github.com/shapr/bloohm
2021-04-01 17:25:12 +0200 <L29Ah> https://github.com/l29ah?tab=repositories&q=&type=source&language=haskell not sure if fun
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2021-04-01 17:28:21 +0200 <peanut_> shapr, I like the "(no idea if this works in bash)"
2021-04-01 17:29:32 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net)
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2021-04-01 17:31:16 +0200 <shapr> peanut_: turns out it does not!
2021-04-01 17:31:23 +0200plutoniix(~q@node-um3.pool-125-24.dynamic.totinternet.net)
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2021-04-01 17:31:48 +0200 <peanut_> thats how I can tell you had fun making that
2021-04-01 17:32:54 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
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2021-04-01 18:15:40 +0200 <L29Ah> bgamari_: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/4585/diffs?commit_id=52e2dec6ded6a0d62ebf8722a… wut wut wut aren't you ignoring zero-filled chunks of memory altogether this way?
2021-04-01 18:15:51 +0200 <L29Ah> // trying to guess my way through https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/4585#note_341910
2021-04-01 18:16:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 18:16:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 18:16:55 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, I'm not sure I follow
2021-04-01 18:17:09 +0200 <bgamari_> I mean, yes, we are intentionally ignoring slop
2021-04-01 18:17:23 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 18:17:24 +0200 <bgamari_> all arrays will begin with an info table pointer
2021-04-01 18:17:37 +0200 <L29Ah> including a ByteString?
2021-04-01 18:17:42 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, yes
2021-04-01 18:17:51 +0200 <bgamari_> ByteStrings are just ByteArray#s
2021-04-01 18:17:55 +0200hexreel(~hr@2600:1700:28e2:14d0:44cc:3377:2281:bb1d)
2021-04-01 18:19:10 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 18:19:51 +0200 <L29Ah> do you have any clues on the behavior i reported, or should i bring up ghc development environment and play with the rts code touched by your patchset? // never poked ghc internals
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2021-04-01 18:20:55 +0200Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-04-01 18:21:19 +0200AlleriaGuest62844
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2021-04-01 18:24:23 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-01 18:25:27 +0200codygman__(~user@47.186.207.161)
2021-04-01 18:25:28 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, hmm
2021-04-01 18:25:31 +0200Guest62844(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-04-01 18:29:42 +0200Alleria__(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org)
2021-04-01 18:30:13 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, it's a bit hard to know without more information
2021-04-01 18:30:20 +0200 <bgamari_> you say that there is a discrepancy
2021-04-01 18:30:32 +0200 <bgamari_> what concretely is the discrepancy?
2021-04-01 18:30:52 +0200 <bgamari_> there are two plots, but I without knowing what they are plotting it's hard to know how to interpret them
2021-04-01 18:31:17 +0200 <L29Ah> bgamari_: those are -hc profiles
2021-04-01 18:31:28 +0200 <L29Ah> with and without the patchset
2021-04-01 18:31:54 +0200 <L29Ah> the discrepancy is the reported amount of consumed memory
2021-04-01 18:31:56 +0200 <bgamari_> under what workload?
2021-04-01 18:32:15 +0200 <L29Ah> the same one
2021-04-01 18:32:30 +0200 <bgamari_> the first plot is with the patch?
2021-04-01 18:32:33 +0200 <L29Ah> yes
2021-04-01 18:33:01 +0200 <bgamari_> what cost center is the large green bar in the second plot?
2021-04-01 18:33:07 +0200 <L29Ah> PINNED ofc
2021-04-01 18:33:14 +0200 <bgamari_> alright
2021-04-01 18:33:19 +0200 <bgamari_> then this is indeed unexpected
2021-04-01 18:33:43 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 18:33:43 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, can you reproduce this on master?
2021-04-01 18:34:09 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 18:34:20 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 18:34:25 +0200bgamari_vaguely recalls that there were some prerequisite patches by dxld which may not be present in 9.0
2021-04-01 18:34:31 +0200aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:906c:b23f:e55d:e8aa)
2021-04-01 18:34:34 +0200 <L29Ah> i couldn't even install any packages with cabal-install in my inplace ghc :/
2021-04-01 18:35:09 +0200 <bgamari_> oh?
2021-04-01 18:35:16 +0200ph88_(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:7952:e29c:e0:390d)
2021-04-01 18:35:19 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, how many dependencies does your workload have?
2021-04-01 18:35:20 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-01 18:35:42 +0200 <L29Ah> plenty: it's https://github.com/l29ah/hyborg/blob/master/hyborg.cabal#L23
2021-04-01 18:35:57 +0200electricityZZZZ(~electrici@135-180-3-82.static.sonic.net)
2021-04-01 18:36:12 +0200dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk) (Quit: dandart)
2021-04-01 18:36:15 +0200 <bgamari_> sigh, indeed
2021-04-01 18:37:53 +0200 <bgamari_> the commit that I was thinking about is IIRC 41230e2601703df0233860be3f7d53f3a01bdbe5
2021-04-01 18:38:03 +0200 <bgamari_> which sadly does appear to be on ghc-9.0
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2021-04-01 18:51:39 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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2021-04-01 18:55:29 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, how can I go about reproducing this?
2021-04-01 18:55:36 +0200 <bgamari_> assuming I can build your project
2021-04-01 18:55:46 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:a840:6c57:777b:b0e)
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2021-04-01 18:56:25 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cfvhixtqrzmeskoe)
2021-04-01 18:57:52 +0200 <L29Ah> it's complicated rn if you aren't a borg user; i'll try to make a simplified testing mode that doesn't require any other programs running (as now it speaks with borg daemon)
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2021-04-01 19:04:42 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, that would be great
2021-04-01 19:04:56 +0200 <bgamari_> L29Ah, alternatively I can try to walk you through debugging it
2021-04-01 19:05:12 +0200 <bgamari_> but it might be easier to have an independent reproducer
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2021-04-01 19:16:02 +0200xaltsc(~xaltsc@unaffiliated/xaltsc)
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2021-04-01 19:16:54 +0200 <xaltsc> Hey, I don't understand how ReadInt from Numeric works. I'm trying to parse a base 36 string into an Int, but the following below fails
2021-04-01 19:18:42 +0200 <xaltsc> https://pastebin.com/YKDvcUWV
2021-04-01 19:19:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:19:55 +0200 <zzz> hi. what is a quick and dirty way to use a import a library for use within a single .hs file? just for quick experimentation purposes?
2021-04-01 19:20:24 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 19:20:53 +0200 <xaltsc> nvmd I'm dumb
2021-04-01 19:20:53 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.243.187) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-01 19:21:33 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 19:22:12 +0200 <bgamari_> xaltsc, yeah, I think you have a '1' in place of a '9'
2021-04-01 19:22:26 +0200 <xaltsc> bgamari_: indeed...
2021-04-01 19:22:31 +0200 <bgamari_> zzz, cabal install --lib $PACKAGE
2021-04-01 19:22:37 +0200 <xaltsc> Took me an hour to find it though...
2021-04-01 19:22:43 +0200 <bgamari_> then you can use ghc as usual
2021-04-01 19:25:08 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-04-01 19:25:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:26:27 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 19:26:47 +0200 <zzz> bgamari_: im getting "cabal: option `--lib' is ambiguous;"
2021-04-01 19:27:20 +0200 <bgamari_> hmm
2021-04-01 19:27:32 +0200 <bgamari_> perhaps your cabal-install is too old; perhaps try `cabal v2-install --lib $PACKAGE`
2021-04-01 19:28:13 +0200 <bgamari_> zzz, ^
2021-04-01 19:30:09 +0200 <zzz> whats the difference between cabal new-command and cabal v2-command?
2021-04-01 19:30:28 +0200 <zzz> and how can i update cabal itself?
2021-04-01 19:30:33 +0200 <zzz> man cabal is confusing
2021-04-01 19:30:49 +0200 <tapas> they're the same and the distinction went away as of 3.0
2021-04-01 19:30:57 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 19:30:59 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 19:31:04 +0200 <tapas> cabal install for cabal > 3.0 is now the v2 command
2021-04-01 19:31:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:32:03 +0200Matt_P(~Matt_P@178.239.168.171)
2021-04-01 19:32:49 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 19:35:57 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:36:44 +0200 <kilolympus> and updating cabal can be done either manually or using tools like ghcup
2021-04-01 19:38:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:38:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 19:39:47 +0200 <bgamari_> zzz, indeed this transition has been a tad confusing
2021-04-01 19:41:39 +0200jjhoo(jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-04-01 19:41:43 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 19:42:08 +0200deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-04-01 19:42:08 +0200 <L29Ah> bgamari_: done, clone it and do time cabal run hyborg -- --verbose --dry-run create --progress foo::bar /usr/src/linux/* +RTS -M500M -hC -l -xt -L500
2021-04-01 19:42:19 +0200 <L29Ah> assuming you have the linux kernel sources at /usr/src/linux
2021-04-01 19:42:30 +0200 <L29Ah> or some other heavy stuff with lots of files, i presume
2021-04-01 19:42:51 +0200 <bgamari_> cool beans
2021-04-01 19:43:01 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-04-01 19:43:07 +0200 <L29Ah> should tell it ran out of ram in <1min
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2021-04-01 20:01:02 +0200kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de)
2021-04-01 20:01:28 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2021-04-01 20:01:45 +0200rond_(59402019@89-64-32-25.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2021-04-01 20:09:11 +0200grumble(~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble) (Killed (Fuchs (♥ you)))
2021-04-01 20:09:50 +0200grumble(~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble)
2021-04-01 20:11:53 +0200 <xerox_> is there a traversable zip
2021-04-01 20:12:47 +0200 <xerox_> that is, a more generic zip, to for example zip two `Data.Tree's
2021-04-01 20:12:56 +0200fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:4f6:3240:91c8:4b9)
2021-04-01 20:13:46 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38)
2021-04-01 20:14:20 +0200thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Quit: thc202)
2021-04-01 20:14:30 +0200 <xerox_> I was hopeful zip/zipWith were already that now that length and friends are more generic through Foldable
2021-04-01 20:14:41 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-126-95-37.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 20:14:57 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2021-04-01 20:17:38 +0200acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net)
2021-04-01 20:19:51 +0200 <sclv> xerox_: a lot of “generics” pkgs provide that on Data, eg https://hackage.haskell.org/package/regular-0.3.4.4/docs/Generics-Regular-Functions-Zip.html#t:Zip
2021-04-01 20:19:57 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 20:20:35 +0200 <sclv> and there’s also nice typeclasses for such things in the These package https://hackage.haskell.org/package/these
2021-04-01 20:21:14 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 20:21:38 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net)
2021-04-01 20:21:50 +0200 <sclv> i guess they are split out into semialign now https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semialign
2021-04-01 20:25:39 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-98-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-01 20:25:42 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-79-53-62-46.retail.telecomitalia.it)
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2021-04-01 20:31:42 +0200fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:4f6:3240:91c8:4b9) ()
2021-04-01 20:32:22 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 20:35:12 +0200hexreel(~hr@2600:1700:28e2:14d0:44cc:3377:2281:bb1d)
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2021-04-01 20:36:19 +0200neiluj(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net)
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2021-04-01 20:36:26 +0200neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj)
2021-04-01 20:38:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 20:43:09 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-04-01 20:43:36 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
2021-04-01 20:44:04 +0200hexreel(~hr@2600:1700:28e2:14d0:44cc:3377:2281:bb1d) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-04-01 20:45:41 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-01 20:47:53 +0200 <xerox_> sclv: appreciate it
2021-04-01 20:51:06 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.221) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 20:51:16 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.127)
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2021-04-01 20:58:21 +0200 <hololeap> wait, what happened to yahb?
2021-04-01 21:01:39 +0200quaestor(~quaestor@griffith.christophrauch.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 21:02:38 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 21:06:24 +0200mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Quit: mikoto-chan)
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2021-04-01 21:10:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> :(
2021-04-01 21:11:10 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/haskell?id=416782#trid416782
2021-04-01 21:14:27 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-04-01 21:14:29 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.4)
2021-04-01 21:15:19 +0200geekosaur(ac3a8b6e@172.58.139.110)
2021-04-01 21:17:08 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 21:18:05 +0200 <geekosaur> mniip also went missing, oops
2021-04-01 21:18:35 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Excess Flood)
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2021-04-01 21:39:25 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
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2021-04-01 21:39:26 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-04-01 21:41:08 +0200 <maerwald> Couldn't match expected type ‘BS.ByteString’ with actual type ‘BS.Char8.ByteString’ -- this is why I don't like the bytestring package
2021-04-01 21:41:38 +0200 <monochrom> That shouldn't happen.
2021-04-01 21:42:04 +0200 <geekosaur> unless one of those is secretly lazy (does import allow dots in qualifiers?)
2021-04-01 21:42:21 +0200 <monochrom> Yes "import X as Y.Z" is allowed.
2021-04-01 21:44:32 +0200moet(~moet@172.58.35.212)
2021-04-01 21:44:41 +0200 <monochrom> Perhaps someone did "import Data.ByteString.Char8 as BS" and "import Data.ByteString.Lazy as BS.Char8" for April 1st pranks.
2021-04-01 21:44:53 +0200 <maerwald> no, the other way around
2021-04-01 21:45:17 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-01 21:45:29 +0200 <geekosaur> didn't even think to use LBS for the lazy one, which is a nice warning
2021-04-01 21:45:32 +0200 <moet> can you easily control the element type while using static dimensions in hmatrix? it seems like functions such as vec4 require Double, and functions like fromList convert somewhere internally to Double..
2021-04-01 21:46:35 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 21:47:22 +0200 <monochrom> hmatrix has both element-polymorphic functiosn and nailed-to-Double functions.
2021-04-01 21:47:39 +0200 <monochrom> So just avoid the nailed-to-Double functions.
2021-04-01 21:47:49 +0200 <Franciman> Haskell is the past
2021-04-01 21:48:06 +0200 <moet> monochrom: thanks; i'm having a little trouble locating them, perhaps my use case isn't the norm
2021-04-01 21:48:08 +0200 <Franciman> ops wrong channel
2021-04-01 21:48:12 +0200 <Franciman> but still relevant
2021-04-01 21:48:21 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-04-01 21:48:45 +0200quaestor(~quaestor@griffith.christophrauch.de)
2021-04-01 21:50:10 +0200 <xaltsc> hey, anyone familiar with pandoc API here ? I can't find a way to lift Text to PandocIO Text. My code is here: https://pastebin.com/5NGSfDPY
2021-04-01 21:50:47 +0200 <moet> monochrom: it looks like LinearAlgebra.Data supports arbitrary element types, but not type level dimensions, and LinearAlgebra.Static suppors type level dimensions but not arbitrary elemnt types..
2021-04-01 21:51:09 +0200 <moet> monochrom: is this a correct assessment?
2021-04-01 21:51:11 +0200 <monochrom> Is PandocIO an Applicative? So perhaps use "pure"?
2021-04-01 21:51:23 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 21:51:41 +0200 <monochrom> I don't know. I ignore the type-level-dimension part.
2021-04-01 21:51:49 +0200 <moet> monochrom: ah, ok, thanks anyhow :)
2021-04-01 21:52:36 +0200yahb(xsbot@178.219.36.155)
2021-04-01 21:52:36 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Client Quit)
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2021-04-01 21:52:36 +0200yahb(xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb)
2021-04-01 21:52:59 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 21:53:04 +0200mniip(mniip@freenode/staff/mniip)
2021-04-01 22:00:52 +0200 <xaltsc> monochrom: PandocIO is applicative, but pure doesn't work...
2021-04-01 22:01:31 +0200 <geekosaur> if it's Applicative then pure should work because pure is a method of Applicative
2021-04-01 22:02:14 +0200keeperasmexcalibProgrammosaurus
2021-04-01 22:02:17 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-01 22:02:37 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 22:03:15 +0200 <geekosaur> unless "lift into PandocIO" was a guess that turns out to be wrong
2021-04-01 22:03:29 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 22:04:11 +0200 <xaltsc> pure getLinks gives type Pandoc -> Pandoc -> Text instead of Pandoc -> PandocIO Text
2021-04-01 22:05:10 +0200petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:06:58 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:07:19 +0200petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp)
2021-04-01 22:08:13 +0200 <geekosaur> that looks like you're lifting getLinks itself (via ((->) a)), not its result
2021-04-01 22:08:38 +0200 <geekosaur> pure (getLinks somePandoc), perhaps
2021-04-01 22:11:10 +0200rodriga(~quassel@134.204.25.66) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-04-01 22:12:29 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2021-04-01 22:15:56 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.127) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:16:02 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-01 22:17:07 +0200 <xaltsc> geekosaur: that was it! thank you!
2021-04-01 22:18:42 +0200 <xaltsc> Btw, does anyone know a good reference for haskell besides lyah ? It's been a long time and I've forgotten all these lifiting thing. I have a solid CT background (but more mathematical than CS), so I'd welcome something revolving around it.
2021-04-01 22:20:10 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net)
2021-04-01 22:21:32 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc https://www.schoolofhaskell.com/
2021-04-01 22:22:00 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc not sure what youre looking for, a book or website
2021-04-01 22:25:25 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-01 22:25:38 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-98-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-01 22:25:57 +0200 <xaltsc> website, idc for a book, I have an utilitarian use for haskell
2021-04-01 22:25:59 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-98-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-01 22:26:53 +0200 <xaltsc> but the more mathematical the better. I dislike how computer scientists call fibred products and stuff like that
2021-04-01 22:27:00 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 22:27:03 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc beside lyah, real world haskell is available online, but some ppl say it's a litle bit outdated..
2021-04-01 22:27:37 +0200 <geekosaur> definitely outdated, although if you turn on comments there are updates available there
2021-04-01 22:28:24 +0200 <xaltsc> Lyah is up to date ?
2021-04-01 22:28:32 +0200Tario(~Tario@200.119.184.73)
2021-04-01 22:28:41 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc yup, but it cover only basics
2021-04-01 22:28:45 +0200 <geekosaur> no, it's behind as well
2021-04-01 22:28:56 +0200 <geekosaur> just less so than rwh
2021-04-01 22:29:15 +0200 <xaltsc> So you'd say that school of haskell is definitely the best website ?
2021-04-01 22:29:36 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc I wouldnt say that, there is a lot of materials
2021-04-01 22:31:01 +0200 <xaltsc> I guess it'll have to do. I'm not interested in real world anyway. Unless ppl have other suggestions ?
2021-04-01 22:31:02 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc and I think there is no one place with all the info that is up to date, I would look through posts mainly, some time ago I read a lot from snoyberg, now reading stuff written by sandy mguire or alexis kings... good entry point for fresh stuff is r/haskell I think
2021-04-01 22:31:22 +0200 <guest3546456> *blog posts
2021-04-01 22:32:42 +0200 <xaltsc> as for books, since books may or may not be free, is there a manual (CT oriented preferably) or is the standard changing so constantly that there cannot be a reference?
2021-04-01 22:33:14 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-01 22:33:32 +0200 <guest3546456> there are haskell reports 98 and 2010 ... but Haskell now is mainly driven by ghc extensions :P
2021-04-01 22:33:34 +0200 <geekosaur> it changes a lot, linear types just went in in 9.0 and more changes are coming in 9.2
2021-04-01 22:34:26 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:b89f:ad2f:d589:6c68)
2021-04-01 22:35:55 +0200gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 22:36:22 +0200gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt)
2021-04-01 22:36:45 +0200mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:37:11 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc the most comprehensive book now is "Haskell Programming from first principles" by Allen / Moronuki, but it's not free and it's > 1000 pages long
2021-04-01 22:38:37 +0200 <guest3546456> xaltsc you may search amazon and check what suits you also some authors use leanpub to publish their books..
2021-04-01 22:39:26 +0200 <hololeap> xaltsc: this may help, although its for teaching CT to haskell programmers rather than the other way around: https://github.com/hmemcpy/milewski-ctfp-pdf/releases/tag/v19-eb86347
2021-04-01 22:40:00 +0200 <xaltsc> I'd rather not pay an editor that doesn't give money to the authors (that's what happens in math, idk about CS)
2021-04-01 22:40:02 +0200 <guest3546456> yup whole Bartosz Milewski's blog is worth reading
2021-04-01 22:40:35 +0200 <xaltsc> I'd rather have "Programming for Category Theorists" than the converse :D
2021-04-01 22:41:14 +0200segut(49f18bf8@c-73-241-139-248.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-01 22:41:25 +0200mkDoku(~TheMule@aftr-37-201-195-154.unity-media.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:41:31 +0200 <maerwald> I'd ditch CT, linear types and r/haskell and start coding without hype driven development
2021-04-01 22:41:38 +0200 <segut> hello is anyone around that can help with pointing me in the right direction on someting?
2021-04-01 22:42:18 +0200 <hololeap> segut: there are 1027 people in the channel rn
2021-04-01 22:42:19 +0200 <geekosaur> segut, ask your question. not like we can guess what you need
2021-04-01 22:42:49 +0200 <xaltsc> maerwald: CT is useful in math, esp in geometry
2021-04-01 22:43:15 +0200 <maerwald> sure, if you do any of that go ahead
2021-04-01 22:43:52 +0200 <dolio> Maybe you should actually read the context before remarking on things.
2021-04-01 22:44:01 +0200 <geekosaur> maerwald, they said they knew CT already
2021-04-01 22:44:04 +0200 <maerwald> I know
2021-04-01 22:46:18 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-01 22:47:49 +0200 <segut> =) so i am trying to install/compile termonad on fedora 32.  i installed stack from RPM and downloaded the source and ran "stack install" I am getting this error around gi-vte " While building package gi-vte-2.91.25 (scroll up to its section to see the error) using:"  Last time i tried to compile something i had a similar issue which with a
2021-04-01 22:47:50 +0200 <segut> different package which I was never able to get resolved and had to abandon the compile.  Is there an inherent incompatibility with building things on fedora or am i just missing something simple. i.e. (yum clean all~version for stack;changing gi repositories to fedora base repo; just use ubuntu containers; etc.)
2021-04-01 22:47:52 +0200 <xaltsc> maerwald: and the reason I favour haskell over "simpler" languages is that, because of my math bg, I find it easier to express ideas in Haskell (than, say, in Python). The one thing I struggle with is the syntax
2021-04-01 22:48:52 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:48:57 +0200 <maerwald> xaltsc: I prefer simple languages, which is why I chose haskell ;)
2021-04-01 22:49:03 +0200geekosaur(ac3a8b6e@172.58.139.110) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:49:35 +0200 <xaltsc> That's why I put the quotes :D
2021-04-01 22:50:53 +0200 <maerwald> but the only thing that's really important to me are algebraic data types. Idc about laziness and even functional isn't that important if the language is able to deal with mutability in some other way
2021-04-01 22:51:06 +0200 <segut> full error https://paste.tomsmeding.com/JczS1oF8
2021-04-01 22:52:15 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:52:54 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:532d:a700:e532:2773:4b16:d5dc) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:53:39 +0200nckxThunderbi
2021-04-01 22:53:42 +0200xff0x_(~xff0x@2001:1a81:532d:a700:6abb:1223:9f25:3fb)
2021-04-01 22:54:16 +0200 <guest3546456> segut: looks like some missing dependency https://github.com/haskell-gi/haskell-gi/issues/183
2021-04-01 22:55:03 +0200 <xaltsc> maerwald: algebraic types are about everywhere, aren't they ? For me, it's the functionnal thing and the constraints that a strongly typed language has that made me go for haskell initially.
2021-04-01 22:55:16 +0200 <guest3546456> segut: here is something more interesting https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage/issues/3867
2021-04-01 22:55:21 +0200 <maerwald> xaltsc: no, they are not... Go struggles with them
2021-04-01 22:55:35 +0200 <maerwald> and lots of languages have only shitty versions
2021-04-01 22:55:38 +0200codygman`(~user@209.251.131.98) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-01 22:55:48 +0200 <guest3546456> segut: install dependencies given under this post compilation should work...
2021-04-01 22:56:30 +0200 <segut> guest3546456 i looked at that but it is old and that patch was merged it seemed.
2021-04-01 22:56:41 +0200 <segut> but let me look again
2021-04-01 22:56:45 +0200 <xaltsc> maerwald: they even exist in C if I remember correctly ? Haskell is just pretty regarding that.
2021-04-01 22:59:18 +0200 <monochrom> Algebraic types are everywhere in nature.
2021-04-01 22:59:29 +0200 <monochrom> But most programming languages are unnatural.
2021-04-01 23:00:16 +0200 <monochrom> Just look at SQL. No thought put into it at all.
2021-04-01 23:00:47 +0200 <segut> ok so that helped a bit i searched for vte in dnf and found a few devel packages that had to do with vte. installed those and it is moving forward now. I was only looking at the repository error for stack.
2021-04-01 23:00:49 +0200 <segut> many thanks
2021-04-01 23:00:58 +0200 <maerwald> There is little point in debating what you can theoreticall do in language X, since most of them are turing complete
2021-04-01 23:01:01 +0200 <maerwald> so you can do everything
2021-04-01 23:01:07 +0200 <dolio> I don't know. With SQL they talk alot about how they consciously rejected algebraic types.
2021-04-01 23:01:15 +0200 <guest3546456> segut np
2021-04-01 23:01:28 +0200 <monochrom> Oh oops heh OK
2021-04-01 23:01:31 +0200 <segut> thank you guest3546456
2021-04-01 23:01:43 +0200 <maerwald> python also has "laziness"
2021-04-01 23:02:05 +0200 <xaltsc> algebraic types are just the monoidal category of vector spaces over the field with one element anyways.
2021-04-01 23:02:32 +0200 <monochrom> I thought a field had at least two elements.
2021-04-01 23:02:50 +0200 <xaltsc> yes but no
2021-04-01 23:03:26 +0200 <xaltsc> Fun things happen when you study phenomena over F_q and let q go to 1.
2021-04-01 23:03:57 +0200 <monochrom> "Is this singularity?" meme
2021-04-01 23:04:31 +0200deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-01 23:04:32 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-01 23:04:39 +0200Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-01 23:04:51 +0200 <xaltsc> "math, linear algebra, always has been" meme
2021-04-01 23:05:47 +0200sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-01 23:05:47 +0200 <electricityZZZZ> i have written a few somewhat nontrivial "programs" in elm and feel reasonably comfortable with that language. i might entertain the idea that i understand the language "to completion". is there some kind of haskell subset i can reasonably "completely understand"?
2021-04-01 23:06:10 +0200 <maerwald> electricityZZZZ: haskell2010
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2021-04-01 23:15:23 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.55.131.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2021-04-01 23:20:25 +0200Erutuon_(~Erutuon@97-116-27-119.mpls.qwest.net)
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2021-04-01 23:25:38 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-98-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-01 23:25:59 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-98-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-01 23:28:41 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 23:29:34 +0200 <moet> is there a haskell library for mutating subarrays in a large multidimensional array? repa and hmatrix don't seem to support a way to put slices (references to submatrixes) back into the original structure w/o large copies
2021-04-01 23:30:14 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-01 23:31:17 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.112.245) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-01 23:32:03 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Client Quit)
2021-04-01 23:32:25 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 23:33:14 +0200 <nut> Will runST break purity? Immutable in, immutable out, but in between there's side effect
2021-04-01 23:33:35 +0200 <moet> nut: runST breaks the rules around purity; it hides impure stuff internally
2021-04-01 23:33:57 +0200 <moet> nut: i believe it uses runtime facilities to accomplish this
2021-04-01 23:34:20 +0200 <nut> myfunction :: Vec -> Vec
2021-04-01 23:34:33 +0200 <nut> for this function, if i use runST on Vec
2021-04-01 23:34:42 +0200 <nut> then it looks pure, but it's not
2021-04-01 23:34:43 +0200 <dolio> It doesn't break rules.
2021-04-01 23:35:29 +0200 <nut> I mean, there seems to be side effect to this seemingly pure function
2021-04-01 23:35:31 +0200 <moet> nut: you can't really use runST inside that function because runST relies on a type parameter `s` which isn't present in your return type.. it would have to be contained (foralled) inside your Vec or something, but i don't think that's possible.. the whole point of that parameter is to prevent the impurity from escaping
2021-04-01 23:36:13 +0200 <nut> I understand that no immutable things will get out
2021-04-01 23:36:33 +0200 <moet> i might be getting confused here actually; you can do that; the `s` is contained inside the action to runST
2021-04-01 23:36:51 +0200 <nut> but if Vec is immutable, then myfunction is a pure function no?
2021-04-01 23:37:11 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-01 23:38:00 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-01 23:38:37 +0200 <monochrom> Let me cut to the mustard. How do you observe "side effect"?
2021-04-01 23:38:38 +0200 <nut> https://pastebin.com/2m4knwzU
2021-04-01 23:38:39 +0200 <nut> Could anyone take a look at this if it's pure?
2021-04-01 23:38:49 +0200 <monochrom> If you can't observe it then it didn't happen.
2021-04-01 23:39:44 +0200 <nut> The input is a vector, and within the runST, i first turn it into mutable vector, then modify it, then freeze it
2021-04-01 23:39:48 +0200 <nut> then return
2021-04-01 23:40:03 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-01 23:40:09 +0200 <int-e> nut: `thaw` will make a copy
2021-04-01 23:40:18 +0200guest3546456(~jaroslawj@185.234.208.208.r.toneticgroup.pl) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-01 23:40:28 +0200 <nut> aha
2021-04-01 23:40:30 +0200 <nut> i see now
2021-04-01 23:40:39 +0200 <moet> nut: i looked at your function; it's pure from the external perspective, but it's returning a copy as int-e said
2021-04-01 23:40:55 +0200 <monochrom> freeze makes one more copy
2021-04-01 23:41:05 +0200 <nut> i get it guys, thx
2021-04-01 23:41:16 +0200 <monochrom> I thought you knew from the docs.
2021-04-01 23:41:44 +0200 <nut> i just got lost for a moment
2021-04-01 23:42:02 +0200 <nut> new to the ST Monad
2021-04-01 23:42:06 +0200 <moet> nut: you might be better off writing your domain functions in terms of `ST s Returntype` and then you can combine them all near the top level with `runST` and then you'll get a speedy implementation with less copies
2021-04-01 23:43:03 +0200 <nut> Great tip
2021-04-01 23:43:27 +0200RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-01 23:43:33 +0200 <int-e> hmm, does vector have an analog of `runSTArray` that wraps unsafeFreeze safely?
2021-04-01 23:43:35 +0200 <nut> moet: when I'm more comfortable with the APIs I will do that. I'm learning both vectors and ST now
2021-04-01 23:43:55 +0200 <monochrom> I think no.
2021-04-01 23:44:06 +0200mrd(~mrd@debian/developer/mrd) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-01 23:44:36 +0200 <nut> that runSTArray also confuses me, because there's vectors and arrays which seem similar
2021-04-01 23:44:52 +0200mrd(~mrd@45.61.147.211)
2021-04-01 23:45:16 +0200mrdGuest40940
2021-04-01 23:45:42 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:49e2:dd02:cb68:846)
2021-04-01 23:46:22 +0200 <koz_> nut: vector-the-library is a layer on top of arrays.
2021-04-01 23:46:31 +0200 <koz_> It's designed to be more convenient and feature-ful.
2021-04-01 23:46:46 +0200 <nut> i see
2021-04-01 23:47:00 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2021-04-01 23:47:00 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2021-04-01 23:47:00 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-04-01 23:47:20 +0200RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
2021-04-01 23:47:28 +0200 <nut> So can I understand that ST is an escape to the imperative world?
2021-04-01 23:47:34 +0200 <koz_> nut: No.
2021-04-01 23:47:47 +0200 <koz_> Read 'Functional Lazy State Threads' if you want a good explanation.
2021-04-01 23:48:27 +0200 <nut> I'll do that a bit later. I'm actually trying to implement the algolrithms from Introduction to Algorithms the book
2021-04-01 23:48:47 +0200 <nut> And I've used Haskell List for implementation before
2021-04-01 23:49:01 +0200 <nut> Which is linked list and not recomended
2021-04-01 23:49:08 +0200 <L29Ah> nut: nah it's a limited chunk of real world that lives in a jail of the pure world
2021-04-01 23:49:18 +0200 <nut> So that's why I'm looking at vectors and all that mutable stuff
2021-04-01 23:49:46 +0200sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge)
2021-04-01 23:49:47 +0200Tario(~Tario@200.119.184.73) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-01 23:50:02 +0200 <koz_> I'd say 'use vector immutably' before going any further. Limits what you have to learn at least.
2021-04-01 23:50:05 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-01 23:50:12 +0200 <nut> L29Ah: koz_ OK, so for my particular application, is it appropritate to make heavy use of ST monad ?
2021-04-01 23:50:24 +0200 <koz_> nut: I have no idea what your application is.
2021-04-01 23:50:33 +0200 <koz_> I would argue that first, start with immutable.
2021-04-01 23:50:38 +0200 <koz_> You'd be surprised how far that gets you.
2021-04-01 23:50:45 +0200 <nut> implement quicksort, heap sort, dynamic programming etc.
2021-04-01 23:50:56 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:d987:a6e5:6815:ac7d) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-01 23:51:06 +0200 <koz_> For sorting, you might wanna use ST, but here you actually have a stack of ST and random.
2021-04-01 23:51:09 +0200 <L29Ah> just make sure ST doesn't leak out to the public interface
2021-04-01 23:51:11 +0200 <koz_> Dynamic programming is a technique.
2021-04-01 23:51:17 +0200 <koz_> So I have no idea what that means either.
2021-04-01 23:51:26 +0200 <koz_> Levenstein distance is dynamic programming; so is simplex.
2021-04-01 23:51:36 +0200 <nut> for quicksort for example, there's so many inplace updates and array index moving, can i still do it with immutable vector?
2021-04-01 23:51:59 +0200 <koz_> If you're dead-set on in-place quicksort? Then it's probably better to use ST.
2021-04-01 23:52:05 +0200 <koz_> However, what's your goal?
2021-04-01 23:52:15 +0200 <koz_> Is it 'learn to implement in-place quicksort'?
2021-04-01 23:52:36 +0200 <nut> My goal is to learn both algorithm and haskel
2021-04-01 23:52:50 +0200 <nut> so I'm tying out all alternatives
2021-04-01 23:52:56 +0200 <koz_> Then I will say one thing: most algorithms are presented in a way that's awkward to translate to immutability and functional programming in general.
2021-04-01 23:53:07 +0200 <koz_> Therefore, I'd say that it's probably _not_ the most convenient of things.
2021-04-01 23:53:21 +0200 <koz_> In-place quicksort is a perfect example.
2021-04-01 23:53:33 +0200 <nut> but i do want to know the cononical way of doing these things in haskell_1 l
2021-04-01 23:53:47 +0200 <L29Ah> nut: in haskell you may opt to use a pure functional sort of an algorithm, that might be slower but have useful properties, like cheap copies that reuse most of the structure, or some laziness
2021-04-01 23:54:02 +0200 <koz_> L29Ah: For in-place quicksort, none of the above applies.
2021-04-01 23:54:09 +0200 <koz_> And there isn't a 'canonical' array sort in Haskell.
2021-04-01 23:54:14 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:d987:a6e5:6815:ac7d)
2021-04-01 23:54:20 +0200 <koz_> We have a bunch in vector-algorithms, they all have tradeoffs.
2021-04-01 23:54:42 +0200 <koz_> (and they all use mutability admittedly, since they're all in-place)
2021-04-01 23:55:26 +0200 <nut> Ok in a summary, whenever i have to use in place mutability algorithm, i will try ST monad
2021-04-01 23:55:34 +0200 <koz_> Yeah, that's a good summary.
2021-04-01 23:55:43 +0200 <nut> Thanks a lot!
2021-04-01 23:55:47 +0200 <koz_> (with the caveat that it's not as necessary as you might think)
2021-04-01 23:55:58 +0200 <koz_> I can give an example from my own experience where using ST made my program _slower_.
2021-04-01 23:56:04 +0200 <koz_> (and like, a _tonne_ slower)
2021-04-01 23:56:10 +0200 <nut> do tell
2021-04-01 23:56:12 +0200 <koz_> (we're talking an order of magnitude or two)
2021-04-01 23:56:19 +0200 <koz_> Block reversal.
2021-04-01 23:56:33 +0200 <koz_> The implementation I was working from used stacked looping and a mutable position variable.
2021-04-01 23:56:38 +0200 <koz_> That ran like utter garbage.
2021-04-01 23:56:47 +0200 <koz_> I then rethought it without mutable references.
2021-04-01 23:56:53 +0200 <koz_> It ran about 100 times faster.
2021-04-01 23:57:02 +0200 <moet> nut: if you're having trouble with ST, don't let it distract you from your goal.. i'd implement your goal with the pure functions (and/or ones that don't use ST) in Data.Vector first and then go back to use ST later if you want to optimize.
2021-04-01 23:57:06 +0200 <koz_> To give more specifics requires a trainload of context.
2021-04-01 23:57:10 +0200 <moet> nut: premature optimization is a killer :)
2021-04-01 23:57:15 +0200 <koz_> Most of which is not very interesting or informative.
2021-04-01 23:57:38 +0200 <nut> i understnad koz_
2021-04-01 23:58:39 +0200 <nut> moet: so if i use immutable vector instead of ST mutable vectors, that would mean a lot of vector copying, same as if i use List right?
2021-04-01 23:58:44 +0200hexfive(~hexfive@50.35.83.177) (Quit: i must go. my people need me.)
2021-04-01 23:58:47 +0200 <koz_> nut: Not necessarily.
2021-04-01 23:59:01 +0200 <koz_> Vector uses a lot of fusion tricks to avoid allocating intermediates where possible.
2021-04-01 23:59:14 +0200 <koz_> Also, depending on what you're trying to do, you can reformulate your program not to need those.
2021-04-01 23:59:27 +0200 <koz_> (heck, just 'generate' from vector is surprisingly powerful)
2021-04-01 23:59:33 +0200 <nut> but that's internal stuff right? the fusion tricks. The code still looks at if they are copying
2021-04-01 23:59:43 +0200 <koz_> nut: How is that relevant?
2021-04-01 23:59:55 +0200 <koz_> What does and doesn't get done in a pure function in Haskell is pretty theoretical anyway.