IRCBrowse

2021/03/30

2021-03-30 00:05:45 +0200gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 00:06:15 +0200 <ski> sparsity : "could have functors in" ?
2021-03-30 00:06:30 +0200 <sparsity> i realise how stupid that sounds
2021-03-30 00:06:35 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a5da:1e25:ab26:50f2)
2021-03-30 00:06:38 +0200ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:44c9:a8ba:908e:c8fa)
2021-03-30 00:06:43 +0200Alleria__(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-29c5-30e3-fcb5-0c65.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-30 00:06:59 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 00:07:01 +0200 <sparsity> idk how you use free profunctors for "build systems" anyway
2021-03-30 00:07:15 +0200 <ski> i dunno what you meant by that phrase
2021-03-30 00:07:24 +0200Iryon(~Iryon@2a02:a31a:a045:3500:5420:2237:4aee:26f2) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 00:07:57 +0200pera(~pera@unaffiliated/pera)
2021-03-30 00:08:00 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-03-30 00:08:19 +0200 <mpickering> sparsity: https://elvishjerricco.github.io/2017/03/10/profunctors-arrows-and-static-analysis.html
2021-03-30 00:08:19 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
2021-03-30 00:08:21 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220) (Changing host)
2021-03-30 00:08:21 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-03-30 00:08:35 +0200 <mpickering> This post explains somewhat
2021-03-30 00:08:51 +0200ixian(~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:08:57 +0200pera(~pera@unaffiliated/pera) (Client Quit)
2021-03-30 00:09:05 +0200 <sparsity> whats the tldr
2021-03-30 00:09:52 +0200 <mpickering> If you use free profunctors and some other things you can inspect the build graph before you execute it
2021-03-30 00:09:55 +0200 <mpickering> unlike if you use a free monad
2021-03-30 00:10:02 +0200 <mpickering> and free applicatives are too weak
2021-03-30 00:10:04 +0200ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-30 00:10:18 +0200ph88(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:4080:7dc1:315d:729) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:10:19 +0200 <dibblego> why can't you inspect it with free?
2021-03-30 00:10:32 +0200 <sparsity> it collapses?
2021-03-30 00:10:49 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a5da:1e25:ab26:50f2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:11:00 +0200 <sparsity> why would profunctorisation allow this preservation of inspectability, seems very strange
2021-03-30 00:11:06 +0200 <mpickering> because the structure of the graph depends on the result of a previous computation, so you have to evaluate part of the graph in order to work out what the rest looks like
2021-03-30 00:11:20 +0200 <dibblego> ah yeah makes sense
2021-03-30 00:11:40 +0200 <sparsity> how can you build up the graph any other way?
2021-03-30 00:11:58 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:12:10 +0200 <mpickering> sparsity: What do you mean?
2021-03-30 00:12:12 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2021-03-30 00:12:17 +0200 <mpickering> Any other way as opposed to what?
2021-03-30 00:12:36 +0200 <sparsity> your saying it changes as you consume it, but that somehow the profunctors allow it to be all in place at the same time
2021-03-30 00:13:07 +0200 <mpickering> yeah the structure of the graph is known ahead of time but not what each node produces
2021-03-30 00:13:45 +0200 <mpickering> Perhaps I will write a paper about it
2021-03-30 00:14:00 +0200 <sparsity> a few words could be more effecient now
2021-03-30 00:14:06 +0200nij(~user@2001-48F8-9021-806-0-0-0-49D8-dynamic.midco.net)
2021-03-30 00:14:13 +0200 <sparsity> we are still none the wiser as to whats going on with these profunctors
2021-03-30 00:14:56 +0200 <dibblego> code pls :)
2021-03-30 00:15:01 +0200 <nij> Hello! While writing a program with lots of complicated objects, how would I stay functional? Especially when it frequently reads/writes database..
2021-03-30 00:15:16 +0200 <sparsity> dibblego: that could be huge and incomprehensible
2021-03-30 00:15:18 +0200 <dibblego> nij: what is "complicated objects"? Do you have an example?
2021-03-30 00:15:29 +0200 <dibblego> sparsity: I fully intend to comprehend it
2021-03-30 00:15:43 +0200 <sparsity> then the blog post?
2021-03-30 00:15:58 +0200 <dibblego> maybe that too; I'll write it after :)
2021-03-30 00:16:02 +0200 <sparsity> the scrolldown threshold was too strong
2021-03-30 00:16:49 +0200 <sparsity> it went from "whats a value" to cojibberish in the blink of an eye
2021-03-30 00:17:05 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-30 00:17:34 +0200 <nij> dibblego: so each object is a list of list of lists.
2021-03-30 00:17:35 +0200 <sparsity> and the "heres what your trying to understand" was not placed before "lest make reference to a databasing example"
2021-03-30 00:17:56 +0200 <nij> I might say plists.. they have many slots, and i need to read and write frequently
2021-03-30 00:18:11 +0200 <nij> sometimes just to the memory, but also frequently to database.
2021-03-30 00:20:14 +0200 <sparsity> "Before we get to an example, I want to talk about free prearrows"
2021-03-30 00:20:25 +0200 <mpickering> yes sparsity, I get that completely.
2021-03-30 00:20:26 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 00:20:27 +0200 <sparsity> * never * do * this *
2021-03-30 00:20:35 +0200 <mpickering> It's just the only reference I could find
2021-03-30 00:20:37 +0200 <monochrom> I still don't understand, but perhaps the function that maps old object to new object is functional.
2021-03-30 00:22:04 +0200 <sparsity> i think i managed to glean it has something to do with "strength"
2021-03-30 00:22:25 +0200 <sparsity> "strenght of arrows enables static checking"
2021-03-30 00:22:36 +0200 <sparsity> or so they say...
2021-03-30 00:24:13 +0200 <sparsity> my mind is flipping a profunctor arrow back and forth and trying to see how this stops the graph of a program undergoing evaluation from tearing apart
2021-03-30 00:25:46 +0200 <sparsity> "A profunctor is strong if it can freely pass unknown values through it without modification. This is represented by adding an input to the profunctor in a tuple, and adding that same type to the output in a tuple, allowing a value to safely pass through."
2021-03-30 00:25:53 +0200 <sparsity> that explains the arrows link at least
2021-03-30 00:26:49 +0200 <sparsity> "This lets you pass in anything you want to preserve after the computation is done"
2021-03-30 00:27:11 +0200 <sm[m]> nij: is your choice of database restricted ? will it be postgres ?
2021-03-30 00:27:32 +0200 <sparsity> right, so you can use profunctors to preserve the internals of some term rewriting process or something?
2021-03-30 00:27:46 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.223) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:28:29 +0200 <sparsity> im sure this is just a convoluted axample of something much more simple
2021-03-30 00:28:39 +0200 <nij> sm[m]: no. it's a general question.
2021-03-30 00:28:57 +0200 <nij> I wonder what's the principle to stay functional, while needing to deal with dbs
2021-03-30 00:29:19 +0200 <sparsity> ah, right, so strength is like fmapping into *part* of something
2021-03-30 00:29:49 +0200 <monochrom> Do you think it's like lens but for database?
2021-03-30 00:30:32 +0200 <mpickering> sparsity: It's not so complicated. A value of type `P a b` is a build rule which takes an `a` as input and `b` as output. Then various ways to compose these rules correspond to constructing a graph.
2021-03-30 00:30:46 +0200 <mpickering> Which you can then recover by appropiately choosing how to interpret `P`.
2021-03-30 00:31:06 +0200 <monochrom> Our current lens is a specification of where to dive into a complex immutable object for tinkering or reading. Perhaps there is an analogue for s/immutable object/mutable record/
2021-03-30 00:31:33 +0200 <sparsity> isnt mutability a hangup from worser languages?
2021-03-30 00:31:51 +0200 <monochrom> I am not talking to you, sparsity.
2021-03-30 00:32:11 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a5da:1e25:ab26:50f2)
2021-03-30 00:32:28 +0200 <monochrom> Unless you also want to deny nij's problem about accessing databases.
2021-03-30 00:33:11 +0200Yumasi(~guillaume@static-176-175-104-214.ftth.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:33:59 +0200 <sparsity> i think the way your pushing the idea of DBs in a way thats "idiomatic in a functional language" (or functorial or whatever it was being said like) to mean something like lenses as in a "pure" db, conflaiting that with mutability, is somewhat, droll
2021-03-30 00:34:03 +0200 <sm[m]> nij: I think your question has some db dependence though. For working purely in-memory, the answer will probably be "use mutable vectors" or some such. If you need to store frequently in a db, the answer is probably "use postgres and a db abstraction layer of choice".
2021-03-30 00:34:34 +0200 <sm[m]> in between, there is acid-state, a db you can write any haskell data type to, but it's generally not recommended.
2021-03-30 00:35:18 +0200solidus-river(~mike@174.127.249.180) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 00:35:46 +0200 <sparsity> yeah, it gets confused around record accessors and generics
2021-03-30 00:36:24 +0200 <sparsity> i would question if the memory managment abstractions of higher order languages alone almost make redundant some of these "traditional databasing" concerns
2021-03-30 00:36:51 +0200niklasb(~niklasb@unaffiliated/codeslay0r) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:37:26 +0200 <sparsity> i guess its a problem of cross language integration essentially, so more like an FFI to any particular standard
2021-03-30 00:37:43 +0200borne(~fritjof@200116b864978000f7ed9fd86a2491f0.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:37:48 +0200 <sclv> as far as i know any serious db writes effectively its own memory manager
2021-03-30 00:37:58 +0200 <sclv> no matter what language its written in
2021-03-30 00:38:27 +0200 <sclv> for lightweight datastores you can get away without this, but at a certain scale of data you need a manager suited precisely to your abstractions and representation forms
2021-03-30 00:38:40 +0200nuncanada(~dude@179.235.160.168) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 00:38:48 +0200 <sm[m]> nij: there is a range of db abstraction libs on hackage, from simple (postgresql-simple) to convenient (yesod) to powerful (beam, opaleye and a bunch of others) - maybe these will give ideas
2021-03-30 00:38:57 +0200 <sclv> very serious dbs effectively implement their own file system too
2021-03-30 00:39:22 +0200 <sparsity> and can offer pretty bizzare language interfaces as a consequence
2021-03-30 00:39:23 +0200 <sclv> its the closest in application systems programming i know of to needing to write an entire "mini-os"
2021-03-30 00:39:47 +0200 <sparsity> yeah but we have all that these things offer
2021-03-30 00:40:12 +0200 <sparsity> maybe they are more like fledgling programing language runtimes like the JVM or something
2021-03-30 00:40:42 +0200 <sparsity> ie, legacy crap
2021-03-30 00:41:14 +0200 <sclv> i should mention regarding the above discussion btw the "a la carte" approach https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2018/03/build-systems.pdf
2021-03-30 00:41:26 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 00:41:48 +0200 <sparsity> you might lose some folklore by totally replacing the entire notion of DBs with better languages, but i doubt it would be too bad
2021-03-30 00:43:54 +0200 <sparsity> the thing is, all of this stuff, all the libraries you want your build systems to be built on, its all slowly aiming towards being canonical and prinicpled
2021-03-30 00:44:06 +0200 <sparsity> is there a fixed point?
2021-03-30 00:44:27 +0200 <sparsity> is there tangible strength in diversity of styles?
2021-03-30 00:44:43 +0200 <ph88^> does anyone know a good library to simplify symbolic (boolean) expressions ?
2021-03-30 00:45:49 +0200 <sparsity> i guess you elucidate the fundamental structures of mathematical programming along the way, and that these then naturally form those fundamental canonical abstractions
2021-03-30 00:46:08 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f159:ca44:c706:a1d8)
2021-03-30 00:46:24 +0200 <sclv> ph88^: i did this one back in the day and it still builds: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/boolsimplifier
2021-03-30 00:46:43 +0200 <ph88^> nice sclv
2021-03-30 00:46:44 +0200 <monochrom> neato
2021-03-30 00:46:49 +0200 <sclv> the strategy it takes was specifically made to reduce obvious redundancy from machine generated expressions
2021-03-30 00:47:02 +0200zjp(~zjp@66-45-138-104-dynamic.midco.net)
2021-03-30 00:47:07 +0200 <sclv> its not like full featured propositional logic manipulation, so its not necc what you want for all purposes
2021-03-30 00:47:24 +0200 <sclv> and the types are Somewhat Fancy just because that's what my collaborator wanted to do as an exercise
2021-03-30 00:47:26 +0200 <sparsity> you get something similar in the structure of group automorphisms
2021-03-30 00:47:50 +0200 <sparsity> i mean, logic is good too though
2021-03-30 00:48:17 +0200 <ph88^> sclv, do you know how this class of programs is called ? i would also like to search for alternatives. ... But yours looks pretty nice at first glance :)
2021-03-30 00:48:19 +0200 <sparsity> probably have to splice the two together somehow
2021-03-30 00:48:24 +0200irc_user(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tjmapcziuxjtvokq)
2021-03-30 00:48:38 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 00:48:56 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:6438:fe04:a25d:577) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 00:49:36 +0200 <sclv> ph88^: probably you'd look for "first order logic" or "propositional logic"
2021-03-30 00:49:47 +0200 <sparsity> there are dualities in maths for various cannonicalisations
2021-03-30 00:50:07 +0200 <sclv> there are approaches that might also use binary decision diagrams as in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/obdd
2021-03-30 00:50:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 00:50:15 +0200 <sparsity> matrix factorisation making a model for hierarchical decomposition of matter etc.
2021-03-30 00:50:20 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c)
2021-03-30 00:50:25 +0200 <sparsity> i dont get how programming uses logic though
2021-03-30 00:50:47 +0200 <sparsity> combinatorics?
2021-03-30 00:50:56 +0200 <sparsity> is everything some fundamental result of counting?
2021-03-30 00:51:56 +0200 <monochrom> sparsity: Are you done?
2021-03-30 00:51:59 +0200 <sparsity> i was reading about the factorisation of finite automata and how that relates to a higher order functional paradigm
2021-03-30 00:52:30 +0200 <dibblego> I could do with some sparsity
2021-03-30 00:52:34 +0200 <sparsity> monochrom: im trying to ask about this counting diagrams idea, and about graph isomporphic programs that are being discussed
2021-03-30 00:53:06 +0200ChanServ+o monochrom
2021-03-30 00:53:09 +0200 <sparsity> i like how logic seems to solve this, but cant see how that fits in with other approaches to cannonicalisation
2021-03-30 00:53:12 +0200monochrom+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.92.233.85.251
2021-03-30 00:53:12 +0200sparsitymonochromsparsity
2021-03-30 00:53:15 +0200fenmonochromfen
2021-03-30 00:53:20 +0200monochrom-o monochrom
2021-03-30 00:53:21 +0200 <sclv> ph88^: there's libs like eg https://hackage.haskell.org/package/boolean-normal-forms but note that putting expressions in unique normal forms can make them far bigger. general "smallest expression" is np hard. so the lib i worked on tried to find a pragmatic procedure that usually worked
2021-03-30 00:53:27 +0200sclvthanks monochrom
2021-03-30 00:53:54 +0200 <sclv> (and i think, by construction, really didn't ever make things worse)
2021-03-30 00:54:41 +0200hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic)
2021-03-30 00:54:53 +0200 <sclv> if you know the specific structure of your expressions ahead of time, you can often decide on a normalization procedure for _precisely those expressions_ that is suited to your domain, and is straightforward and efficient to calculate.
2021-03-30 00:55:12 +0200 <sclv> that's the general law of algorithms -- the more you know about the input, the better the algo you can write
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2021-03-30 01:16:16 +0200 <ph88^> thank you sclv
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2021-03-30 02:45:36 +0200shutdown_-h_now(~arjan@2001:1c06:2d0b:2312:49d1:c68b:dd68:855d)
2021-03-30 02:45:38 +0200 <koz_> Is there some fancy built-in that does 'concat . unfoldr f'?
2021-03-30 02:45:55 +0200 <emilypi> i don't think `build/destroy` fusion exists in ghc currently
2021-03-30 02:46:24 +0200 <koz_> emilypi: So basically, I might as well use 'concat . unfoldr f'?
2021-03-30 02:46:25 +0200 <emilypi> er, destroy/unfoldr
2021-03-30 02:47:22 +0200 <emilypi> koz_: yeah. GHC didn't opt into this so you don't get much unless you write it yoruself
2021-03-30 02:47:40 +0200chstan(~chstan@157-131-252-199.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)
2021-03-30 02:47:41 +0200 <koz_> I think I'll save on resorting to that unless I really need it.
2021-03-30 02:48:53 +0200kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ufrrxovbropqrvyy) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-30 02:49:31 +0200 <Axman6> is it an optimisation that could come naturally from other optimisations? I imagine enough inlining would give the same effect
2021-03-30 02:49:50 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 02:50:11 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:4409:3d6f:5ab7:cfa2)
2021-03-30 02:50:16 +0200 <emilypi> bgamari: ^?
2021-03-30 02:50:32 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c)
2021-03-30 02:50:38 +0200 <bgamari> emilypi, correct
2021-03-30 02:50:47 +0200 <bgamari> maybe some day
2021-03-30 02:50:50 +0200 <emilypi> RIP
2021-03-30 02:53:06 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-30 03:00:49 +0200seven_three(~user@pool-96-252-123-136.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) ()
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2021-03-30 03:04:44 +0200 <emilypi> ocharles: do you mind looking at that HPC mr for cabal? i'd like to get that in. afaict it's a rebase to master away from +1 on my part
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2021-03-30 04:21:24 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-215.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-03-30 04:21:42 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-03-30 04:22:25 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-58-224.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-03-30 04:24:12 +0200 <ezzieyguywuf> hm, if I have two pairs, (x0, x1) and (x2, x3), and I want to go about checking whether there is an "intersection" between these two pairs such they share exactly one value...how might I go about doing that?
2021-03-30 04:29:09 +0200urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
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2021-03-30 04:32:06 +0200Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhumobypoetbfjsj) ()
2021-03-30 04:32:15 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.206.187)
2021-03-30 04:32:20 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-30 04:32:21 +0200tmciver(~tmciver@cpe-172-101-40-226.maine.res.rr.com)
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2021-03-30 04:41:11 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@5.151.5.178)
2021-03-30 04:43:12 +0200 <lemmih> ezzieyguywuf: What have you tried so far?
2021-03-30 04:48:12 +0200minty(~buntoo@175.144.230.227) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-30 06:16:06 +0200pupuupup_(~pupuupup@ppp-124-122-192-176.revip2.asianet.co.th)
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2021-03-30 06:16:32 +0200pupuupup1(~pupuupup@ppp-124-122-192-176.revip2.asianet.co.th)
2021-03-30 06:17:13 +0200 <pupuupup_> .
2021-03-30 06:17:16 +0200 <pupuupup1> .
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2021-03-30 06:17:28 +0200pupuupup1(~pupuupup@ppp-124-122-192-176.revip2.asianet.co.th) ()
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2021-03-30 09:10:36 +0200AWizzArd(~code@gehrels.uberspace.de) (Changing host)
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2021-03-30 09:22:58 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-30 09:26:48 +0200tenniscp25(~tenniscp2@node-14ni.pool-125-25.dynamic.totinternet.net) ()
2021-03-30 09:28:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-03-30 09:47:39 +0200Cale(~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-03-30 09:47:40 +0200average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgggogcqiiotqpkm)
2021-03-30 09:47:54 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@volyova.ec2.thelastcitadel.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 09:48:04 +0200leothrix(~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix)
2021-03-30 09:48:31 +0200thecoffemaker(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2021-03-30 09:48:35 +0200hiredman(~hiredman@volyova.ec2.thelastcitadel.com)
2021-03-30 09:49:52 +0200borne(~fritjof@200116b864cfc800f7ed9fd86a2491f0.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-30 09:50:40 +0200 <maerwald> does anyone know what happens on windows syscalls if you don't follow the naming convention of file names: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/naming-a-file#naming-conventions
2021-03-30 09:51:47 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-30 09:52:02 +0200dorkside(~tdbgamer@208.190.197.222) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 09:52:25 +0200Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01:e0a:5cb:4430:6c9e:d835:53cb:dfd2)
2021-03-30 09:52:52 +0200 <pjb> maerwald: they're not conventions, they're rules.
2021-03-30 09:53:20 +0200flow(~none@salem.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-03-30 09:53:20 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Then you'll trigger errors on *some* systems
2021-03-30 09:53:37 +0200 <pjb> maerwald: if you use a name such as "foo:bar:bar quux quaks" it will break, because the component separator is \ not :
2021-03-30 09:54:30 +0200 <Lycurgus> it's the attributes that matter
2021-03-30 09:54:34 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Like, making a file named CON will just fail
2021-03-30 09:55:09 +0200 <pjb> Or using a file named LPT1 will just print stuff instead of storing to a file.
2021-03-30 09:55:42 +0200 <merijn> pjb: I don't think it will
2021-03-30 09:56:16 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.120.166) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-30 09:56:43 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: The issue is that FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, etc. all have different rules. Pretty sure this is just describing a safe/portable subset for all filesystems windows has shipped over the years
2021-03-30 09:57:08 +0200 <maerwald> the question is wheter it makes sense to enforce these rules when constructing a filepath type or let this be a consideration for the curious
2021-03-30 09:57:18 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Violating those can fail if the fs/windows version you're using happens to not allow that
2021-03-30 09:57:21 +0200 <pjb> Perhaps it's restricted to printers connected to the parallel port. Since there does not remain a lot of them, that may not work indeed.
2021-03-30 09:57:34 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Probably not, tbh
2021-03-30 09:58:02 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: Then you're also subject to keeping those restrictions up to date over time
2021-03-30 09:58:24 +0200 <merijn> maerwald: And you may wanna do something that violates these rules if you *know* the underlying FS
2021-03-30 09:58:36 +0200ddk(2f09e32d@47.9.227.45)
2021-03-30 09:59:17 +0200 <maerwald> maybe NUL should be treated special though?
2021-03-30 09:59:41 +0200 <maerwald> not handling that will definitely cause unexpected stuff on unix
2021-03-30 10:02:45 +0200 <pjb> Well, it's a question of user friendlyness. Indeed, users coming from other posix systems will be very surprised and despised by those limitations. So it is good to have code to check and validate user provided file names and paths, and either to transform the given names to map them to valid names for the Windows system, or to inform the user about those restrictions.
2021-03-30 10:03:25 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@47.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-30 10:04:53 +0200 <ddk> are there Plutus / Cardano experienced  devs here ?
2021-03-30 10:05:52 +0200 <maerwald> are you looking for people?
2021-03-30 10:06:43 +0200_flow_(~none@salem.informatik.uni-erlangen.de)
2021-03-30 10:07:24 +0200 <ddk> help from people and maybe later people too :)
2021-03-30 10:09:25 +0200thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.111.116) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-30 10:11:36 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
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2021-03-30 11:43:48 +0200 <joel135> I noticed that liftA2 :: (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c arises from both `f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` by Yoneda.
2021-03-30 11:46:04 +0200 <joel135> Also `f ()` can replace `a -> f a`.
2021-03-30 11:46:11 +0200 <opqdonut> yeah almost any way of combining functorial values is enough for Applicative
2021-03-30 11:46:43 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 11:47:00 +0200 <joel135> Personally I think `f ()` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` is less intimidating than the usual definition.
2021-03-30 11:49:42 +0200 <opqdonut> I guess the type of <*> is in some sense the most simple type that offers Applicative functionality. Also not having intermediate tuples is good for performance. But it might not be the best way to teach Applicative.
2021-03-30 11:49:55 +0200 <joel135> I see.
2021-03-30 11:51:02 +0200LiaoTao_(~LiaoTao@gateway/tor-sasl/liaotao)
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2021-03-30 12:00:35 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-03-30 12:00:41 +0200 <kuribas> Is it better to teach using an intermediate operator then?
2021-03-30 12:02:08 +0200 <viluon> hello, I'm rewriting Haskell ASTs (via a source plugin) and I'm using SYB to do so. I need to carry some context from the root to the leaves and also compute in the `TcM` monad, so I use a variation of `everywhereM` that works in a top-down manner.
2021-03-30 12:02:09 +0200 <viluon> However, I'm running into the issue of visiting the subterms of expressions I've rewritten, since the rewriting adds some (it transforms certain references like `x` into function calls like `f x`, which leaves the inner `x` to be visited again), so the operation gets stuck in an endless, ever-expanding loop. What can I do to prevent this?
2021-03-30 12:02:56 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-03-30 12:03:41 +0200 <joel135> kuribas: Do you mean to give names to `f ()` and `f a -> f b -> f (a, b)` ?
2021-03-30 12:03:49 +0200 <kuribas> joel135: yes
2021-03-30 12:04:04 +0200 <joel135> I couldn't come up with any so far.
2021-03-30 12:04:24 +0200 <[exa]> viluon: would `everywhereBut` help?
2021-03-30 12:04:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 12:04:52 +0200aveltras(uid364989@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zamqcnfurlugkaxg)
2021-03-30 12:04:54 +0200 <[exa]> viluon: (if it would have the monadic variant, ofcourse)
2021-03-30 12:05:44 +0200 <viluon> I tried running the recursive call (to `gmapM`) within the SYB scheme on the unmodified input AST, saving the result of the rewrite for later, then doing the replacement after recursion finishes, via a regular generic transformation using `geq` on the inside. That doesn't work because of the "fake" `Data` instance for `ByteString` which doesn't support all the required operations.
2021-03-30 12:06:07 +0200Alleria__(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-29c5-30e3-fcb5-0c65.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-30 12:06:34 +0200 <[exa]> viluon: and well, software engineering solution: can you use your monad state to mark that you don't want to expand `x` again?
2021-03-30 12:06:57 +0200 <viluon> [exa]: I think I know how to modify the actual rewriting logic (rather than the SYB scheme) to avoid the infinite loop, I was looking for something general
2021-03-30 12:07:35 +0200 <viluon> [exa]: but yeah, I can definitely look at the state (in fact the shape of the expression I'm rewriting should be enough) to avoid recursing into it
2021-03-30 12:08:22 +0200 <[exa]> ah so, not sure if this is easily generalizable tbh, I'm still kinda new to syb stuff
2021-03-30 12:08:59 +0200 <viluon> I'm also new to this so I wanted to know if there's perhaps a smart/clean way of doing what I want that people know about
2021-03-30 12:10:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 12:10:16 +0200 <[exa]> you might want to have a look at `uniplate` package, there's a slightly different look at all the abstraction
2021-03-30 12:10:39 +0200 <viluon> I'll check that out, thanks!
2021-03-30 12:10:41 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 12:14:44 +0200 <joel135> kuribas: maybe one of https://paste.tomsmeding.com/fch2ZSia
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2021-03-30 12:56:50 +0200TommyC7TommyC
2021-03-30 12:57:41 +0200 <joel135> Trying to understand why `first' :: p a b -> p (a, c) (b, c)` is strength.
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2021-03-30 13:33:14 +0200 <Jahn> Hey guys, I'm revising for an exam here and got stuck at a very basic problem.
2021-03-30 13:33:15 +0200 <Jahn> Basically, I have a function to draw an ascii triangle on size input plus the repeat function redefined (task is such):
2021-03-30 13:33:15 +0200 <Jahn> repeat :: Int-> String-> String
2021-03-30 13:33:16 +0200 <Jahn> repeat n s = if n<= 0 then "" else s ++ repeat (n-1) s
2021-03-30 13:33:16 +0200 <Jahn> triangle :: Int-> String
2021-03-30 13:33:17 +0200 <Jahn> triangle n = if n >= 1 then triangle (n-1) ++ ((repeat (n) "*") ++ "\n")
2021-03-30 13:33:17 +0200 <Jahn>                 else ""
2021-03-30 13:33:17 +0200Jahn(d98aca74@217.138.202.116) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
2021-03-30 13:33:58 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-177-164.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
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2021-03-30 13:35:13 +0200 <edwardk> joel135: the () and (a,b) based version was included in the original paper on Applicatives
2021-03-30 13:36:43 +0200 <joel135> hi edwardk! i see.
2021-03-30 13:38:40 +0200 <edwardk> http://www.riec.tohoku.ac.jp/~asada/papers/arrStrMnd.pdf goes into the topic of strength here, but it might be a slow slog on first reading
2021-03-30 13:38:53 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 13:38:59 +0200 <joel135> i already started reading it, thanks
2021-03-30 13:39:09 +0200 <edwardk> k
2021-03-30 13:39:12 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 13:39:51 +0200 <joel135> I have gathered so far that any Arrow is a monad in Prof, and its strength in the sense of strong monads. Elaborately, `Arrow a` gives a profunctor `a :: *^op -> * -> *`, and this is a monoid with unit `arr :: (x -> y) -> a x y` and multiplication `(>>>) :: a x y -> a y z -> a x z`.
2021-03-30 13:41:33 +0200JanBessai(~JanB@85-22-13-230.ip.dokom21.de)
2021-03-30 13:42:10 +0200 <joel135> I just need to work out that strength amounts to first' now.
2021-03-30 13:42:50 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-03-30 13:43:06 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 13:43:34 +0200 <txb920> Apologies all for the total noob question - but why can I do "map (uncurry min) zip $ [1,2,3] [3,2,1]" (returning [1,2,3]) - but not "map (uncurry min) . zip" to compose a function accepting two arrays of integers? Just trying to get the basics straight in my head. How would I go about combining those functions? :-)
2021-03-30 13:43:44 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 13:44:07 +0200 <merijn> txb920: That first one looks like a type error to me
2021-03-30 13:44:16 +0200 <merijn> Unless you have a custom/different 'map' in scope
2021-03-30 13:44:18 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-03-30 13:45:03 +0200 <merijn> In fact, even if you do, that first one looks *entirely* wrong to me
2021-03-30 13:45:17 +0200txb920(5af6ddfd@90.246.221.253) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 13:45:50 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-30 13:46:55 +0200 <lortabac> it looks like a typo, ($) should be *before* zip
2021-03-30 13:47:13 +0200 <merijn> lortabac: Sure
2021-03-30 13:47:26 +0200txb920(5af6ddfd@90.246.221.253)
2021-03-30 13:47:50 +0200 <merijn> lortabac: But if I typo correct every beginner's question before I answer, then I end up answering the wrong question a lot :p
2021-03-30 13:48:03 +0200 <txb920> Connection died:D
2021-03-30 13:48:27 +0200 <lortabac> merijn: :)
2021-03-30 13:49:02 +0200 <merijn> txb920: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/haskell?id=413034&timestamp=1617104647#t1617104647
2021-03-30 13:49:07 +0200 <Philonous> joel135, I've had good luck explaining Applicative in terms of »f a -> f b -> f (a,b)«, so I agree it's less daunting.
2021-03-30 13:50:10 +0200 <txb920> Cheers merijn. Ah, yeah. I do have the $ before zip, oops.
2021-03-30 13:50:18 +0200 <lortabac> txb920: (.) composes two functions that take 1 argument, but zip takes 2 arguments
2021-03-30 13:51:35 +0200 <merijn> txb920: Let's walk through some things
2021-03-30 13:51:53 +0200 <merijn> Let's start with "f $ x = f (x)"
2021-03-30 13:52:06 +0200 <merijn> If we introduce that in your example we get
2021-03-30 13:52:26 +0200 <merijn> map (uncurry min) (zip [1,2,3] [3,2,1])
2021-03-30 13:52:30 +0200 <merijn> THat's obviously right
2021-03-30 13:52:47 +0200 <merijn> Now consider: "f . g = \x -> f (g x)"
2021-03-30 13:52:57 +0200 <merijn> That gives us
2021-03-30 13:53:14 +0200 <merijn> \x -> map (uncurry min) (zip x)
2021-03-30 13:53:25 +0200 <merijn> :t zip []
2021-03-30 13:53:26 +0200 <lambdabot> [b] -> [(a, b)]
2021-03-30 13:53:45 +0200 <merijn> So "zip x" is a function expecting a list, mapping that makes no sense
2021-03-30 13:54:21 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-30 13:54:47 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-30 13:55:51 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-30 13:56:22 +0200DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
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2021-03-30 13:56:47 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-30 13:56:54 +0200 <txb920> Hmm, great, thanks for that merijn. That makes sense
2021-03-30 13:57:36 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 14:00:13 +0200 <merijn> txb920: Usually people ascribe too much magic to $ and . while in reality they're pretty straightforward functions :)
2021-03-30 14:02:11 +0200 <peanut_> accursedUnutterablePerformIO is magic.
2021-03-30 14:02:19 +0200 <merijn> :p
2021-03-30 14:02:43 +0200haritz(~hrtz@62.3.70.206)
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2021-03-30 14:02:44 +0200haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-03-30 14:02:48 +0200 <merijn> peanut_: "People who like 'accursedUnutterablePerformIO' also liked: GHC.Prim" ;)
2021-03-30 14:03:38 +0200DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 14:03:45 +0200 <joel135> @let x = 3 in x*x
2021-03-30 14:03:45 +0200 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: in
2021-03-30 14:04:05 +0200 <joel135> how to use lambdabot ?
2021-03-30 14:04:11 +0200 <merijn> > let x = 3 in x*x
2021-03-30 14:04:12 +0200 <lambdabot> 9
2021-03-30 14:04:19 +0200 <joel135> >let x = 3
2021-03-30 14:04:23 +0200 <joel135> > x*x
2021-03-30 14:04:25 +0200 <lambdabot> x * x
2021-03-30 14:04:29 +0200 <merijn> That doesn't work
2021-03-30 14:04:43 +0200 <merijn> > only accepts expressions
2021-03-30 14:04:52 +0200 <merijn> let without in is part of do notation
2021-03-30 14:05:17 +0200jbetz(sid283648@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bfgqfnucldondvhy) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-30 14:05:35 +0200 <merijn> > do { let x = 3; x*x; } -- I guess this should work
2021-03-30 14:05:36 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:20: error: <hint>:1:20: error: parse error on input ‘;’
2021-03-30 14:05:40 +0200geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-30 14:05:46 +0200 <merijn> > do { let x = 3; x*x } -- I guess this should work
2021-03-30 14:05:48 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:21: error: <hint>:1:21: error: parse error on input ‘}’
2021-03-30 14:05:58 +0200 <merijn> oh, wait
2021-03-30 14:06:08 +0200 <geekosaur> let { x = 3 };
2021-03-30 14:06:09 +0200 <merijn> > do { let { x = 3 }; x*x }
2021-03-30 14:06:11 +0200 <lambdabot> 9
2021-03-30 14:07:35 +0200 <peanut_> merijn, I use GHC.Prim all the time :^)
2021-03-30 14:07:47 +0200 <peanut_> indirectly ;)
2021-03-30 14:08:04 +0200 <joel135> :t let (.:) = (.).(.) in map (uncurry min) .: zip
2021-03-30 14:08:05 +0200 <lambdabot> Ord b => [b] -> [b] -> [b]
2021-03-30 14:08:19 +0200 <merijn> peanut_: So does everyone writing Haskell :p
2021-03-30 14:08:27 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-30 14:08:35 +0200 <peanut_> exactly
2021-03-30 14:09:11 +0200enoq(~textual@194-208-146-143.lampert.tv)
2021-03-30 14:11:36 +0200 <joel135> Ok I worked it out. Strength is in general of the form `(F u) ⊗ v → F(u ⊗ v)` and in this case this means -- if you squint at it -- `(a x y, r -> s, (y, s) -> t) -> exists w. ((x, r) -> w, a w t)` which should boil down to first'. Indeed, it can be simplified to `a x y -> a (x, r) (y, r)` by 3 appeals to Yoneda that eliminate the variables s, t and w.
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2021-03-30 14:22:03 +0200proteusguy(~proteusgu@cm-58-10-155-117.revip7.asianet.co.th)
2021-03-30 14:22:12 +0200writenix(~quassel@151.189.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt)
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2021-03-30 14:22:58 +0200 <joel135> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/profunctors-5.2.2/docs/Data-Profunctor-Strong.html#t:Pastro
2021-03-30 14:23:09 +0200writenix(~quassel@151.189.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-30 14:23:30 +0200 <joel135> shouldn't it be Pastro -| Forget -| Tambara ?
2021-03-30 14:24:42 +0200writenix(~quassel@151.189.63.94.rev.vodafone.pt) (Client Quit)
2021-03-30 14:24:43 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 14:24:44 +0200 <joel135> like Coproduct -| Diagonal -| Product
2021-03-30 14:25:27 +0200PjotrOrial1(~PjotrOria@185.163.110.108) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 14:29:11 +0200 <txb920> Thanks joel135 for the pointfree version! Was wondering what it'd look like
2021-03-30 14:35:18 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-30 14:59:25 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@unaffiliated/tomboy64)
2021-03-30 14:59:52 +0200 <joel135> oh it is Pastro -| Tambara in the sense of a monad adjoint to a comonad, not in the sense of a functor (with different endpoints) adjoint to another functor
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2021-03-30 15:26:40 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-03-30 15:27:02 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-30 15:27:21 +0200ixlun(~matthew@109.249.184.145)
2021-03-30 15:29:45 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-41.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-03-30 15:30:00 +0200 <maralorn> I have this super useful workflow of running hedgehog tests with ghcid. But hedgehog detects, that it’s not printing to stdout and therefore does not use the interactive, colorful progress report. Any tricks how I could work around that?
2021-03-30 15:30:29 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-30 15:31:33 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com)
2021-03-30 15:31:51 +0200ben3123(d98aca74@217.138.202.116)
2021-03-30 15:31:55 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-30 15:32:02 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-03-30 15:32:52 +0200 <maralorn> fd .hs | entr -- runhaskell MyTests.hs
2021-03-30 15:32:53 +0200 <maralorn> does for now.
2021-03-30 15:33:00 +0200Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-03-30 15:33:04 +0200 <opqdonut> maralorn: looking at the source, could you use checkConfig with RunnerConfig with runnerColor set
2021-03-30 15:33:12 +0200 <opqdonut> err sorry, checkGroup
2021-03-30 15:33:15 +0200 <merijn> maralorn: You mean tricks that involve changing the code or not? :p
2021-03-30 15:33:36 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 15:33:36 +0200 <joel135> is this related to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/911168/how-to-detect-if-my-shell-script-is-running-through-a-p… ?
2021-03-30 15:33:50 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 15:33:56 +0200 <maralorn> merijn: This is for work. So anything that get’s the job done.
2021-03-30 15:34:09 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 15:34:28 +0200 <merijn> maralorn: It's definitely possible to *make* it work, but it depends how much time you're willing to commit :p
2021-03-30 15:34:59 +0200 <geekosaur> and effort
2021-03-30 15:35:07 +0200 <merijn> maralorn: Presumably as opqdonut says there's an override to force colour enabled in hedgehog, but if not you can cheat and make hedgehog *think* it's connected to a terminal
2021-03-30 15:35:13 +0200 <ben3123> Hey everyone, I am revising for an exam here and got stuck on the following exercise:
2021-03-30 15:35:15 +0200 <ben3123> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/jG3Pw6jm
2021-03-30 15:35:28 +0200 <ben3123> does someone have any tips? Thanks
2021-03-30 15:35:46 +0200 <merijn> maralorn: But that requires a bit of work, which might be more than you're willing to invest :p
2021-03-30 15:36:22 +0200 <peanut_> ben3123, deja vu...
2021-03-30 15:36:34 +0200 <ben3123> yeah, i copied it wrong :D
2021-03-30 15:36:58 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 15:37:03 +0200 <maralorn> merijn: I will stick with my entr workaround. I guess it would only get a problem once compile times get to long and I don‘t expect that soon.
2021-03-30 15:37:24 +0200 <merijn> maralorn: Basically, you can write a wrapper program that creates a pty and starts your hedgehog tests attached to the pty. Then copy all data from the pty to the output
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2021-03-30 15:41:00 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
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2021-03-30 15:43:16 +0200nrh^(nrh@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-03-30 15:43:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> isn't that script(1) ?
2021-03-30 15:44:38 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
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2021-03-30 15:49:06 +0200matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-03-30 15:51:11 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-30 15:51:11 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.55.131.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-03-30 15:52:21 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-41.static.apol.com.tw) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 15:54:00 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 15:54:06 +0200 <maralorn> > script makes a typescript of everything on your terminal session.
2021-03-30 15:54:06 +0200 <maralorn> Phew my Brain needed a while to understand that …
2021-03-30 15:54:08 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:27: error: <hint>:1:27: error: parse error on input ‘of’
2021-03-30 15:54:23 +0200 <maralorn> * > script makes a typescript of everything on your terminal session.
2021-03-30 15:54:24 +0200 <maralorn> Phew my brain needed a while to understand that …
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2021-03-30 16:41:06 +0200rodriga(~quassel@134.204.25.66)
2021-03-30 16:43:09 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
2021-03-30 16:43:26 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 16:43:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's a bit of a hack -- you're completely uninterested in the typescript, after all -- but writing the script to /dev/null should fix that
2021-03-30 16:43:51 +0200 <tomsmeding> the point is that it opens a tty
2021-03-30 16:46:32 +0200haritz(~hrtz@2a02:8010:65b5:0:6009:6384:e3cb:2220)
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2021-03-30 17:21:52 +0200dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk)
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2021-03-30 17:23:40 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 17:25:46 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> what does this syntax do?: instance Something a => Something [a] where
2021-03-30 17:26:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> CatWithMoustache: if 'a' has a Something instance, then '[a]' has a Something instance as follows
2021-03-30 17:26:44 +0200 <merijn> I'd actually say the reverse (but that's nitpicking) :p
2021-03-30 17:27:07 +0200 <merijn> i.e. "[a] has a Something instance if (and only if) 'a' has a Something instance"
2021-03-30 17:27:19 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-03-30 17:27:33 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> so if I can apply a function to a (I assume it has to be of type "Something") I can now apply it to a list of a's?
2021-03-30 17:28:00 +0200 <tomsmeding> CatWithMoustache: do you understand what 'instance Something [a] where' does?
2021-03-30 17:28:14 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> not entirely
2021-03-30 17:28:32 +0200dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-03-30 17:29:25 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> I think it forces all functions of "Something" to now be applied to the type after
2021-03-30 17:29:34 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> (or allows them to be applicable)
2021-03-30 17:29:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> it provides definitions for all the methods of the class 'Something' for lists of any type 'a'
2021-03-30 17:29:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> not "forces", provides
2021-03-30 17:30:11 +0200 <tomsmeding> % class Something a where foo :: a -> Int
2021-03-30 17:30:11 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:30:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> % instance Something [a] where foo l = length l
2021-03-30 17:30:23 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:30:27 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo [1,2,3]
2021-03-30 17:30:27 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: 3
2021-03-30 17:30:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo 42
2021-03-30 17:30:35 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:30:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(Something a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] Something [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:28:10; * In the expression: foo 42; In an equation for `i
2021-03-30 17:30:49 +0200 <tomsmeding> % instance Something Int where foo i = i
2021-03-30 17:30:49 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:30:53 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo (42 :: Int)
2021-03-30 17:30:53 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: 42
2021-03-30 17:31:32 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> ah, so "instance Something a => Something [a] where" guarantees me, that I get an a of type "Something" and I'll be able to apply all functions on it - and then relies on me to implement all those functions if i get a [a]
2021-03-30 17:31:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> CatWithMoustache: see? before I added the 'instance Something Int where', 'foo' could not be applied to an integer; it only had a definition for lists
2021-03-30 17:31:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> kind of
2021-03-30 17:32:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> you're allowed to assume that Something's methods are already defined for 'a' when writing the method definitions for '[a]'
2021-03-30 17:32:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> because that declaration only makes [a] an instance of Something for all 'a' that are already an instance of Something
2021-03-30 17:33:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> % class C1 a where foo :: a -> Int ; instance C1 [a] where foo l = length l
2021-03-30 17:33:35 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:33:36: error: parse error on input `instance'
2021-03-30 17:33:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> % class C1 a where { foo :: a -> Int } ; instance C1 [a] where foo l = length l
2021-03-30 17:33:43 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:33:54 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo [1,1,1]
2021-03-30 17:33:55 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: 3
2021-03-30 17:34:16 +0200 <tomsmeding> % class C2 a where { foo :: a -> Int } ; instance C2 a => C2 [a] where foo l = length l
2021-03-30 17:34:16 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:34:20 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> thx. I think i got it
2021-03-30 17:34:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo [1,1,1]
2021-03-30 17:34:23 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:37:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(C2 a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instance exist:; instance [safe] C2 a => C2 [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:36:49; * In the expression: foo [1, 1, 1]; In an equation for `
2021-03-30 17:34:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> % instance C2 Int where foo _ = 42
2021-03-30 17:34:30 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-30 17:34:32 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo [1,1,1]
2021-03-30 17:34:32 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:39:1: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `a0' arising from a use of `foo'; prevents the constraint `(C2 a0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `a0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance [safe] C2 Int -- Defined at <interactive>:38:10; instance [safe] C2 a => C2 [a] -- Defined at <interactive>:36:49
2021-03-30 17:34:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> % foo [1 :: Int,1,1]
2021-03-30 17:34:38 +0200 <yahb> tomsmeding: 3
2021-03-30 17:34:48 +0200 <tomsmeding> (that annotation is not the point of my story...)
2021-03-30 17:35:07 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-58-224.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-03-30 17:35:07 +0200 <tomsmeding> C1 is available for all lists, C2 only for lists that also have C2 on the elements
2021-03-30 17:35:22 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> how do I apply a function with map on a list, if I the function takes two arguments (so the current element and a constant I wish to supply)
2021-03-30 17:35:27 +0200chele(~chele@ip5b40237d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 17:35:34 +0200 <tomsmeding> and for C2, I could've written 'foo l = sum (map foo l)', because foo works on the elements
2021-03-30 17:35:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> for C1 I could not have
2021-03-30 17:35:49 +0200 <monochrom> map (\x -> x*5) [1,2,3]
2021-03-30 17:35:53 +0200isBEKaml(~isBEKaml@unaffiliated/isbekaml)
2021-03-30 17:35:56 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
2021-03-30 17:36:02 +0200 <tomsmeding> where (*) is your function
2021-03-30 17:36:38 +0200tefter_tefter
2021-03-30 17:36:55 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> monochrom, perfect!
2021-03-30 17:38:55 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 17:39:32 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-30 17:40:30 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 17:41:00 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-03-30 17:42:07 +0200 <kamotaketsunumin> but i didn't join this channel, how come
2021-03-30 17:42:16 +0200 <peanut_> one of us
2021-03-30 17:42:28 +0200kamotaketsunuminfnlaai
2021-03-30 17:44:09 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 17:44:27 +0200errst(~errst@unaffiliated/tirej)
2021-03-30 17:45:41 +0200graf_blutwurst(~user@2001:171b:226e:adc0:5cae:c3e0:4b1f:9d86) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 17:51:05 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-03-30 17:53:21 +0200tefter_(~bmaxa@62.240.24.69)
2021-03-30 17:54:31 +0200zjp(~zjp@66-45-138-104-dynamic.midco.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 17:56:03 +0200tefter(~bmaxa@62.240.24.69) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 17:58:13 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 18:00:14 +0200xe4_xe4
2021-03-30 18:00:27 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-30 18:00:28 +0200xe4(~xe4@157.245.246.119) (Changing host)
2021-03-30 18:00:28 +0200xe4(~xe4@unaffiliated/xe4)
2021-03-30 18:01:23 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:60a8:622c:9ce0:9670)
2021-03-30 18:02:40 +0200nbloomf_(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72)
2021-03-30 18:06:07 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:60a8:622c:9ce0:9670) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:08:42 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-03-30 18:08:46 +0200geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-30 18:10:21 +0200Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-026-062.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-03-30 18:11:20 +0200 <geekosaur> I noticed the we interface is now remembering what channels you were last in
2021-03-30 18:11:43 +0200 <geekosaur> *web
2021-03-30 18:13:17 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> how do I combine two lists linearely without in a list comprehension? (so [0,1,2] [5,6,7] to [(0,1),(1,6),(2,7)])
2021-03-30 18:13:18 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 18:13:31 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> without cross-summing?
2021-03-30 18:13:32 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> *
2021-03-30 18:13:46 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 18:13:55 +0200mach1speed(~textual@S0106f0b4d2c39cee.va.shawcable.net)
2021-03-30 18:13:56 +0200 <geekosaur> > zip [0,1,2] [5,6,7]
2021-03-30 18:13:58 +0200 <lambdabot> [(0,5),(1,6),(2,7)]
2021-03-30 18:15:06 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:15:09 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> thx!
2021-03-30 18:16:51 +0200ixlun(~matthew@109.249.184.145) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:18:56 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:22:01 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: web interface of what?
2021-03-30 18:22:30 +0200 <geekosaur> web.freenode.net
2021-03-30 18:22:30 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:22:34 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 18:23:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> funny, your /whois address is just a plain IP, doesn't include 'kiwiirc'
2021-03-30 18:23:07 +0200michalz(~user@185.246.204.56) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 18:23:07 +0200shachaf_shachaf
2021-03-30 18:24:09 +0200 <geekosaur> check the "real name"
2021-03-30 18:24:27 +0200geekosaurdoesn't have a cloak, which might matter
2021-03-30 18:25:07 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-30 18:25:24 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-03-30 18:25:52 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-30 18:26:28 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-30 18:27:32 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-quhfmudexyuduixm)
2021-03-30 18:27:36 +0200 <peanut_> 🤔
2021-03-30 18:27:54 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 18:28:09 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-30 18:29:34 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-30 18:31:38 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:31:52 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:31:57 +0200ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-58-224.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 18:32:15 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:33:30 +0200fnlaai(67692358@103.105.35.88) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 18:33:47 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:34:17 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> tomsmeding, I never liked that IRC-servers tell everyone your IP in a whois
2021-03-30 18:36:34 +0200 <geekosaur> they don't if you have a cloak
2021-03-30 18:36:54 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> geekosaur, or use tor
2021-03-30 18:37:15 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:37:16 +0200 <peanut_> freenode blocks tor I think
2021-03-30 18:37:34 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> peanut_, \whois me :D
2021-03-30 18:37:41 +0200 <geekosaur> no, they permit it
2021-03-30 18:37:45 +0200 <peanut_> :O
2021-03-30 18:37:47 +0200neiluj(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net)
2021-03-30 18:37:47 +0200neiluj(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net) (Changing host)
2021-03-30 18:37:47 +0200neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj)
2021-03-30 18:38:03 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> freenode blocks my VPN-provider
2021-03-30 18:38:10 +0200 <geekosaur> and even have a registered endpoint
2021-03-30 18:38:35 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> but I pipe all my traffic through VPN, so I need to use tor in addition to connect
2021-03-30 18:38:35 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:39:04 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> ajnvpgl6prmkb7yktvue6im5wiedlz2w32uhcwaamdiecdrfpwwgnlqd.onion btw
2021-03-30 18:39:22 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> (thats the address of freenode in tor)
2021-03-30 18:39:43 +0200 <peanut_> might as well give it a try
2021-03-30 18:40:06 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> peanut_, you get 30 min fun with certificates
2021-03-30 18:40:19 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-30 18:40:22 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> as you need to transmit the cert to conect
2021-03-30 18:42:16 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:42:41 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-30 18:43:05 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:45:16 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2021-03-30 18:45:32 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c)
2021-03-30 18:46:30 +0200rmk236(~lcampos@2a02:908:3616:b100:33e8:f53b:ed31:bde4) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-03-30 18:46:58 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
2021-03-30 18:47:17 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:47:48 +0200supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-30 18:47:53 +0200 <peanut_> needs registration with non-disposable email, I'll pass
2021-03-30 18:48:32 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:48:35 +0200isBEKaml(~isBEKaml@unaffiliated/isbekaml) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:49:18 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:49:59 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-30 18:50:14 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> peanut_, just go to 3rd page of ddg
2021-03-30 18:50:29 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> you should find one not banned there
2021-03-30 18:52:13 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:53:15 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 18:53:49 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 18:54:41 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38)
2021-03-30 18:55:02 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjboehqzacazreox)
2021-03-30 18:55:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 18:55:23 +0200laudiacay(~laudiacay@tjctf/organizer/laudiacay)
2021-03-30 18:55:29 +0200mach1speed(~textual@S0106f0b4d2c39cee.va.shawcable.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-30 18:56:10 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 18:57:14 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 18:58:17 +0200jonathanx(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-03-30 19:00:33 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-03-30 19:00:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:00:48 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:01:25 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-03-30 19:01:46 +0200Erutuon_(~Erutuon@97-116-16-233.mpls.qwest.net)
2021-03-30 19:02:21 +0200 <peanut_> nah, it's fine
2021-03-30 19:02:50 +0200dpl(~dpl@77.121.78.163)
2021-03-30 19:02:50 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:03:13 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:03:18 +0200xelxebar(~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:03:34 +0200xelxebar(~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar)
2021-03-30 19:03:51 +0200peanut_(~peanut_@2a02:8388:a101:2600:c712:5af2:1040:dcf0) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 19:04:39 +0200gitgood(~gitgood@80-44-12-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2021-03-30 19:05:19 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:07:58 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.206.187)
2021-03-30 19:08:12 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:08:36 +0200mach1speed(~textual@S0106f0b4d2c39cee.va.shawcable.net)
2021-03-30 19:08:42 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92)
2021-03-30 19:10:19 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: re:"real name": lol of course, thanks
2021-03-30 19:10:36 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-145-192.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:10:59 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:11:00 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-148-130.46.114.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-30 19:11:01 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:12:58 +0200v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.20.92) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:13:11 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:14:16 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:15:33 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:16:00 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-30 19:16:11 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 19:16:31 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 19:17:53 +0200abcBW(~abcBW@2001:12b4:2ad:6601:11da:bf5f:7e16:788)
2021-03-30 19:18:13 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:19:21 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:19:36 +0200zjp(~zjp@66-45-138-104-dynamic.midco.net)
2021-03-30 19:20:03 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:21:36 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:23:00 +0200jjhoo(jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:23:16 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:23:54 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:24:21 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-03-30 19:24:21 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:24:48 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-30 19:25:05 +0200gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 19:28:17 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:29:23 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.249) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:29:44 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-30 19:29:44 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:30:05 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 19:33:13 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:35:20 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:35:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:35:26 +0200pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:37:38 +0200 <laudiacay> whats .~ for a list
2021-03-30 19:37:43 +0200rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-30 19:38:13 +0200_xor(~xor@74.215.46.133) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:38:18 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:38:43 +0200jjhoo(jahakala@dsl-trebng21-b048b5-171.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-30 19:38:46 +0200_xor(~xor@74.215.46.133)
2021-03-30 19:39:04 +0200frfxzd(~wgygg5qkg@dzx-fzyy8b6j93y-nfy0y-3.rev.dnainternet.fi)
2021-03-30 19:39:34 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:41:27 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@dynamic-046-114-148-130.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:41:51 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.249)
2021-03-30 19:42:18 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:43:10 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.249) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 19:43:15 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:43:24 +0200 <shapr> Is there a fast count min sketch for Haskell?
2021-03-30 19:43:33 +0200 <shapr> I don't see anything on hackage
2021-03-30 19:44:38 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:45:39 +0200idhugo__(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-30 19:46:44 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 19:47:29 +0200needhalp(ce7fb161@unaffiliated/sayo-)
2021-03-30 19:48:17 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 19:49:22 +0200geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:50:12 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info) (Excess Flood)
2021-03-30 19:50:26 +0200 <shapr> laudiacay: maybe that's a lens?
2021-03-30 19:50:38 +0200 <laudiacay> yeah its definitely a lens
2021-03-30 19:50:54 +0200 <laudiacay> its like function . function . function .~ thing
2021-03-30 19:51:30 +0200errst(~errst@unaffiliated/tirej) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-30 19:51:39 +0200landonf(landonf@mac68k.info)
2021-03-30 19:51:54 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.249)
2021-03-30 19:52:16 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 19:54:36 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-03-30 19:54:55 +0200Synthetica(uid199651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpdysnkajitxqqrt)
2021-03-30 19:55:24 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0iais3kqthju5b2.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 19:57:33 +0200rond_(594020a1@89-64-32-161.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-03-30 19:57:37 +0200abc__(~abcBW@186-211-22-41.customer.nbtos.com.br)
2021-03-30 19:57:49 +0200 <needhalp> hello lovely programmers, Ive been programming in functional languages for a while but I'd really interested in upping my code (I come from a more OOP background I guess?). Could I get a recommendation for a super good book on patterns for functional languages?
2021-03-30 19:58:32 +0200molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:b177:1e40:d97b:578c)
2021-03-30 19:58:47 +0200 <monochrom> https://www.slideshare.net/ScottWlaschin/fp-patterns-buildstufflt
2021-03-30 19:59:31 +0200needhalp(ce7fb161@unaffiliated/sayo-) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 19:59:43 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-03-30 19:59:53 +0200 <monochrom> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a4GvI0dbL8sfAlnTUwVxhq4_j-QiDlz02_t0XZJXnzY/preview?slide=… also has some basic ones.
2021-03-30 19:59:55 +0200abcBW(~abcBW@2001:12b4:2ad:6601:11da:bf5f:7e16:788) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:02:13 +0200needhalp(ce7fb161@ics177-97.icsincorporated.com)
2021-03-30 20:05:39 +0200geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-30 20:07:56 +0200 <needhalp> sorry I got disconnected and only got to see monochrom 's link to slidershare
2021-03-30 20:07:58 +0200zjp(~zjp@66-45-138-104-dynamic.midco.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 20:08:41 +0200 <monochrom> Oh, then, I gave one more, but that's all, there was no one else.
2021-03-30 20:08:44 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:08:50 +0200 <monochrom> <monochrom> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1a4GvI0dbL8sfAlnTUwVxhq4_j-QiDlz02_t0XZJXnzY/preview?slide=… also has some basic ones.
2021-03-30 20:09:11 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49)
2021-03-30 20:09:33 +0200needhalp(ce7fb161@ics177-97.icsincorporated.com) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 20:09:42 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-30 20:12:20 +0200jpp_(~jpp@47-220-44-237.htvlcmtk02.res.dyn.suddenlink.net)
2021-03-30 20:12:27 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 20:12:55 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-03-30 20:13:46 +0200Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:14:54 +0200 <wroathe> monochrom: Hahahaha. "shooting IMarineVerteberates in an AbstractBarrelProxyFactory"
2021-03-30 20:14:59 +0200 <wroathe> monochrom: This talk is off to a good start
2021-03-30 20:15:11 +0200is_null(~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:18:08 +0200nbloomf_(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-30 20:18:54 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72)
2021-03-30 20:19:14 +0200Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-03-30 20:19:57 +0200 <abc__> Guys, do you prefer learn a new language from books, documentation or tutorials?
2021-03-30 20:20:15 +0200 <monochrom> tutorials then books then documentation
2021-03-30 20:20:37 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 20:20:42 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:20:53 +0200 <geekosaur> I prefer books first but this will vary a lot by person and by how they best learn
2021-03-30 20:21:22 +0200Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-03-30 20:21:25 +0200 <tomsmeding> shapr: it sounds like a count-min sketch is easily implementable using an STArray? Not sure how you'd generate the hash functions though
2021-03-30 20:22:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> tutorials then documentation then random internet searching, I guess?
2021-03-30 20:22:21 +0200 <shapr> ah, I found an existing implementation
2021-03-30 20:22:28 +0200 <shapr> that's not on hackage and claims to be fast
2021-03-30 20:23:00 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 20:23:05 +0200 <geekosaur> documentation is probably a bad first choice usually, it'll be set up as a reference and will thereby show you things in an order usually not conducive to learning
2021-03-30 20:23:28 +0200 <geekosaur> but having documentation around to support some other means of learning can be a plus
2021-03-30 20:23:41 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 20:24:22 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 20:24:33 +0200 <shapr> abc__: I like to start IRC channels to learn a language
2021-03-30 20:24:52 +0200 <geekosaur> :)
2021-03-30 20:24:58 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:24:59 +0200 <shapr> abc__: that is, I choose the unlisted option of asking people questions
2021-03-30 20:24:59 +0200 <abc__> It's my first time in a IRC channel :D
2021-03-30 20:25:03 +0200 <shapr> o hi!
2021-03-30 20:25:07 +0200 <shapr> abc__: what do you think?
2021-03-30 20:25:16 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 20:25:44 +0200 <abc__> I think it's cool
2021-03-30 20:25:50 +0200laudiacay(~laudiacay@tjctf/organizer/laudiacay) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:25:53 +0200 <shapr> yeah, good points and bad points to IRC
2021-03-30 20:26:06 +0200 <shapr> if you join a quiet channel, you don't know if there's any activity
2021-03-30 20:26:19 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.120.166)
2021-03-30 20:26:37 +0200 <Lycurgus> "fast count min sketch"?
2021-03-30 20:26:44 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: you got one?
2021-03-30 20:26:57 +0200 <Lycurgus> no, I'm asking what it is.
2021-03-30 20:27:02 +0200 <shapr> I just found one that claims to be fast, but hasn't been updated in seven years
2021-03-30 20:27:08 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 20:27:09 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: https://florian.github.io/count-min-sketch/
2021-03-30 20:27:13 +0200 <Lycurgus> ty
2021-03-30 20:27:20 +0200 <shapr> I collect probabilistic data structures because I like them
2021-03-30 20:27:37 +0200 <shapr> so bloom filters got me into counting bloom filters, and then count min sketch, and then cuckoo hash
2021-03-30 20:27:49 +0200RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:27:49 +0200 <shapr> but I still haven't dug into hyperloglog :-(
2021-03-30 20:27:59 +0200 <shapr> abc__: how do you learn new languages?
2021-03-30 20:28:08 +0200 <shapr> I like to chat with native speakers
2021-03-30 20:28:24 +0200 <shapr> abc__: tudo bom!
2021-03-30 20:28:25 +0200hexfive(~hexfive@50.35.83.177)
2021-03-30 20:28:27 +0200 <abc__> I learned python basics once from a book. I'm trying to learn some haskell and programming concepts now. I never made any programming tutorial
2021-03-30 20:28:41 +0200 <Lycurgus> you'll prolly find that in the right journal(s), hs is asking a bit
2021-03-30 20:28:41 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:28:42 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 20:28:44 +0200royal_screwup216(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 20:28:58 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: asking a bit?
2021-03-30 20:29:14 +0200 <shapr> ich verstehe nicht
2021-03-30 20:29:30 +0200 <abc__> tudo e voce?
2021-03-30 20:29:34 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count%E2%80%93min_sketch
2021-03-30 20:29:41 +0200 <Lycurgus> as opposed to just analysis of the algorithm, particular solutions not in any programming lang at all
2021-03-30 20:29:41 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 20:29:49 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@2003:5b:203b:200::10:49) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-30 20:29:57 +0200RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
2021-03-30 20:30:00 +0200 <shapr> abc__: bom! (I only know what I learned in Capoeira class!)
2021-03-30 20:30:25 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: well, I found two count min sketch libraries in Haskell
2021-03-30 20:30:32 +0200 <shapr> one is seven years old, one is a year old
2021-03-30 20:30:38 +0200 <shapr> but the older one looks fast at first glance
2021-03-30 20:30:48 +0200 <shapr> heavy use of {-# INLINE #-} and friends
2021-03-30 20:30:56 +0200bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806f90e000dc05e3ac2e4e54a.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-30 20:31:11 +0200kosmikus_(~kosmikus@nullzig.kosmikus.org) (Changing host)
2021-03-30 20:31:11 +0200kosmikus_(~kosmikus@haskell/developer/kosmikus)
2021-03-30 20:31:20 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 20:31:22 +0200kosmikus_kosmikus
2021-03-30 20:31:24 +0200 <abc__> Wow, capoeira is nice. My region don't have that :(
2021-03-30 20:31:24 +0200 <shapr> Gutentag kosmikus
2021-03-30 20:31:42 +0200 <shapr> abc__: it's fun, you should try it!
2021-03-30 20:31:50 +0200 <kosmikus> shapr: hi :)
2021-03-30 20:31:51 +0200 <shapr> @where cis194
2021-03-30 20:31:51 +0200 <lambdabot> https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html
2021-03-30 20:31:57 +0200 <shapr> abc__: that's a good link, try that?
2021-03-30 20:32:03 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@dvc-186-186-101-190.movil.vtr.net)
2021-03-30 20:32:10 +0200 <shapr> kosmikus: think you'll have time for IOHCC?
2021-03-30 20:32:26 +0200 <shapr> I'm recruiting entrants and judges!
2021-03-30 20:33:06 +0200 <abc__> i've never heard about that course
2021-03-30 20:33:20 +0200 <shapr> abc__: it's good! and free!
2021-03-30 20:33:44 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 20:33:59 +0200 <shapr> abc__: you can also ask questions in here or in #haskell-beginners
2021-03-30 20:34:46 +0200 <abc__> ok, thanks. i will see that course now
2021-03-30 20:34:47 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 20:34:50 +0200 <abc__> ok
2021-03-30 20:35:21 +0200 <abc__> haskell-br channel just have 2 people haha
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2021-03-30 20:48:44 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 20:49:13 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-03-30 20:50:11 +0200 <Lycurgus> http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/~graham/pubs/papers/encalgs-ams.pdf noteworthy for some of the applications, has c code links. At first I thought AMS was the math soc
2021-03-30 20:51:16 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: that and more in the readme for this lib "Finding Frequent Items in Data Streams", http://www.ece.uc.edu/~mazlack/dbm.w2010/Charikar.02.pdf https://sites.google.com/site/countminsketch/cm-eclectics https://tech.shareaholic.com/2012/12/03/the-count-min-sketch-how-to-count-over-large-keyspaces-whe…
2021-03-30 20:52:07 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-30 20:53:31 +0200 <Lycurgus> shapr, ty
2021-03-30 20:53:41 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 20:53:59 +0200 <shapr> Lycurgus: also http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/~graham/pubs/papers/cmencyc.pdf
2021-03-30 20:56:37 +0200 <Lycurgus> shapr, ack/ty
2021-03-30 20:58:39 +0200 <kosmikus> shapr: I don't know about IOHCC yet. When exactly is it again?
2021-03-30 20:59:38 +0200 <shapr> kosmikus: starts when #haskell turns 20, I'll send out an announcement this week
2021-03-30 20:59:38 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 20:59:49 +0200 <shapr> Starts on April 30th 2021
2021-03-30 21:00:36 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
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2021-03-30 21:01:54 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> how do I get a property from a bool?
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2021-03-30 21:02:12 +0200laudiacay(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
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2021-03-30 21:05:37 +0200 <geekosaur> are you talking about QuickCheck?
2021-03-30 21:05:39 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
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2021-03-30 21:08:34 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.120.166) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-30 21:09:21 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> geekosaur, yes
2021-03-30 21:09:35 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> I'd like to return a property
2021-03-30 21:10:38 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 21:11:36 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> essentially I want a property without precondition
2021-03-30 21:11:57 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 21:12:42 +0200 <geekosaur> Bool has a Testable instance, so you can then use `property' to get the corresponding Property
2021-03-30 21:14:51 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:c70f:6b9a:95ec:8c0b) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 21:14:54 +0200 <CatWithMoustache> ah, so simply True ==> thx!
2021-03-30 21:15:35 +0200 <AWizzArd> I have a list L of Foos, type [Foo]. Foo is a record with 10 fields: a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j. Now I want to make a list of 8-tuples out of it, lacking the fields `a` and `j`, i.e. [(b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i)]
2021-03-30 21:15:39 +0200 <AWizzArd> Is there a better way than flip fmap L (\(Foo _ b c d e f g h i _) -> (b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i)) to achieve this?
2021-03-30 21:15:40 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-30 21:16:03 +0200 <geekosaur> not really
2021-03-30 21:16:12 +0200 <AWizzArd> k
2021-03-30 21:16:16 +0200 <jle`> i would probably use a list comprehension
2021-03-30 21:16:21 +0200 <jle`> but not sure if that counts as 'better'
2021-03-30 21:16:28 +0200 <AWizzArd> jle`: What would it look like?
2021-03-30 21:16:35 +0200 <monochrom> I would revisit and impeach the need for the 8-tuple version.
2021-03-30 21:16:47 +0200 <AWizzArd> jle`: Instead of the fmap you mean?
2021-03-30 21:16:47 +0200 <jle`> [ (b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i) | Foo _ b c d e f g h i _ <- myList ]
2021-03-30 21:16:50 +0200 <geekosaur> there is that tooo
2021-03-30 21:17:12 +0200 <jle`> ah yeah, that's probably the more important point. if you're using an 8-tuple there is a chance that there is something deeper that is wrong
2021-03-30 21:17:12 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-30 21:17:47 +0200needhalp(ce7fb161@ics177-97.icsincorporated.com)
2021-03-30 21:17:48 +0200 <AWizzArd> monochrom: two existing tables in Postgres. One delivers ten rows and those need to get shrinked a little before they get inserted into the other table. No real way of getting rid of that.
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2021-03-30 21:20:36 +0200 <AWizzArd> monochrom: but yeah, typically I would agree that one should try to see if this could be changed. But in this case the 10 fields come from json and need to be squeezed into an existing table of 8 columns. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2021-03-30 21:20:38 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
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2021-03-30 21:24:06 +0200 <jle`> i guess you could create a different tpye that only has the eight fields
2021-03-30 21:24:21 +0200 <jle`> if they have the same field names then you can do map (\Foo{..} -> Foo2{..})
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2021-03-30 21:34:32 +0200 <AWizzArd> jle`: that sounds not too bad, yes, good idea!
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2021-03-30 22:19:31 +0200 <maerwald> unlimited tuples
2021-03-30 22:19:44 +0200hyiltiz(~quassel@31.220.5.250)
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2021-03-30 22:20:51 +0200 <maerwald> make them syntax sugar for heterogenous SLists
2021-03-30 22:21:27 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
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2021-03-30 22:30:29 +0200AkechiShiro(~AkechiShi@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:1473:3dff:fe42:56a9)
2021-03-30 22:32:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> SList?
2021-03-30 22:32:33 +0200CatWithMoustache(~CatWithMo@gateway/tor-sasl/catwithmoustache) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 22:32:39 +0200 <tomsmeding> isn't a heterogenuous SList really a HList?
2021-03-30 22:32:54 +0200CatWithMoustache(~CatWithMo@gateway/tor-sasl/catwithmoustache)
2021-03-30 22:34:35 +0200ezrakilt_(~ezrakilty@97-113-35-199.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 22:37:42 +0200nuncanada(~dude@179.235.160.168) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 22:38:38 +0200rodriga(~quassel@134.204.25.66) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 22:40:09 +0200Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-03-30 22:40:32 +0200AlleriaGuest13757
2021-03-30 22:42:22 +0200 <masterplain> sorry monochrom I got kicked out many times again and again
2021-03-30 22:42:59 +0200 <masterplain> I'm the guy that has been programming with a functional language for a while but was looking for a reference on good functional design patterns to write better code
2021-03-30 22:43:12 +0200 <masterplain> thanks for sharing fsharpforfunandprofit<3  it looks good
2021-03-30 22:43:27 +0200dumptruckman_(~dumptruck@li1287-148.members.linode.com)
2021-03-30 22:43:50 +0200 <masterplain> with an OOP kind of background, I was hoping to get something with use cases or "when you're doing this, consider doing this instead"
2021-03-30 22:44:13 +0200 <masterplain> but something that goes beyond the basic fp ideas that Ive been picking up on the way
2021-03-30 22:45:51 +0200dumptruckman(dumptruckm@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe6e:2cfd) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2021-03-30 22:45:51 +0200dumptruckman_dumptruckman
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2021-03-30 22:49:20 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
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2021-03-30 22:50:03 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-30 22:51:50 +0200Sorna(~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk)
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2021-03-30 22:52:57 +0200_d0t(void@gateway/vpn/mullvad/d0t/x-89419360)
2021-03-30 22:53:06 +0200 <_d0t> ohai! How do I disable a plugin in HLS?
2021-03-30 22:54:09 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0)
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2021-03-30 23:03:58 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72)
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2021-03-30 23:11:25 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0)
2021-03-30 23:11:57 +0200zephyz(zephyz@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/zephyz)
2021-03-30 23:12:01 +0200enoq(~textual@194-208-146-143.lampert.tv) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-03-30 23:12:18 +0200Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-026-062.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:12:26 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-30 23:17:41 +0200mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-30 23:18:50 +0200Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene)
2021-03-30 23:20:43 +0200Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 23:21:25 +0200cawfee(chiya@2406:3003:2077:2341::babe)
2021-03-30 23:21:50 +0200 <zephyz> anyone have any pointer or guide to cross compiling with GHC? I want to compile my library for an ARM platform and expose it as a C FFI using my x86 computer
2021-03-30 23:22:04 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0)
2021-03-30 23:22:46 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c108:ff87:d06f:ca72) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-30 23:23:48 +0200dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-30 23:24:07 +0200RamZess(a5e15ade@165.225.90.222)
2021-03-30 23:25:15 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-30 23:27:31 +0200 <sshine> zephyz, did you read https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/cross-compilation yet?
2021-03-30 23:27:37 +0200 <zephyz> Yes
2021-03-30 23:28:10 +0200 <RamZess> Hello ppl, I'm tring to compile a code with "inline-c" package. TH code contains C++. I've got an error "Couldn't match expected type ‘CInt’ with actual type ‘CBool’". But I'm sure that callling c++ method has a parameter of type "bool". It looks for like "inline-c" uses somehow a C style parameter recognition: uses int instead of bool like
2021-03-30 23:28:11 +0200 <RamZess> old good c. Any suggestions how to fix it?
2021-03-30 23:29:52 +0200 <tefter> C doesn't have CInt neither CBool
2021-03-30 23:30:28 +0200 <RamZess> tefer, "inline-c" translate c "int" into haskell CInt
2021-03-30 23:31:07 +0200 <tefter> so that inline-c figures that and generate code
2021-03-30 23:31:19 +0200 <tefter> I guess Haskell code
2021-03-30 23:31:23 +0200 <RamZess> and should translate corresponding C++ bool into CBool, but it gives me an error
2021-03-30 23:31:40 +0200 <RamZess> "inline-C" is a quasiquoter
2021-03-30 23:32:30 +0200 <tefter> well error is quite simple function that has CBool as parameter is called with CInt
2021-03-30 23:32:43 +0200 <tefter> you dind't wrote that?
2021-03-30 23:33:54 +0200 <edwardk> RamZess: you need to set up your context with the type mapping you want
2021-03-30 23:34:19 +0200borne(~fritjof@200116b864cfc800f7ed9fd86a2491f0.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-30 23:34:20 +0200 <edwardk> RamZess: its fairly involved to customize it, but most of the common mappings can be accessed easily
2021-03-30 23:34:35 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 23:34:54 +0200 <edwardk> 9the problem comes down to the fact that which dialect of c you are working in tends to have different conventions about how to handle boolean like results
2021-03-30 23:35:00 +0200fendor_(~fendor@178.165.130.8.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-03-30 23:35:08 +0200 <edwardk> so no one size fits all choice was available to bitonic
2021-03-30 23:35:17 +0200 <edwardk> so you have to opt into sets of translations or add your own
2021-03-30 23:36:14 +0200 <edwardk> when orking with inline-c or inline-c-cpp i'll typically build up a bunch of little helper contexts like:
2021-03-30 23:36:15 +0200 <edwardk> https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L690
2021-03-30 23:36:18 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@65.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-30 23:36:46 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-03-30 23:36:49 +0200 <edwardk> then mix it in with others like: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L626
2021-03-30 23:37:13 +0200 <edwardk> (that module uses a small context inside the file, then uses information gained to define a larger context used in later files)
2021-03-30 23:37:33 +0200 <RamZess> ahhh no, Let say I have a C++ function void enableThis(bool b). I can call it from haskell something like this [Language.C.Inline.block| enableThis($(bool myFlag::CBool)]
2021-03-30 23:37:49 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.55.131.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-03-30 23:37:56 +0200 <edwardk> you often want several of these: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L339
2021-03-30 23:37:58 +0200fendor(~fendor@91.141.2.121.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:38:15 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-79-53-62-46.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-30 23:38:23 +0200 <edwardk> yeah you need to add a thing to the context that provides what FFI type 'bool' corresponds to and how to swizzle the haskell Bool into that 'bool'
2021-03-30 23:38:46 +0200dpl(~dpl@77.121.78.163) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:38:49 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-30 23:38:53 +0200 <edwardk> e.g. is your Bool supposed to become a Word8 and then get passed as a char or a CInt?
2021-03-30 23:39:00 +0200dpl(~dpl@77.121.78.163)
2021-03-30 23:39:02 +0200 <edwardk> different libraries will have different conventions
2021-03-30 23:40:01 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:40:03 +0200masterplain(ce7fb161@unaffiliated/sayo-) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-30 23:40:22 +0200 <RamZess> I'm compiling opencv binding (with opencv4). So it is expected to work like this: c++ bool -> mapped to haskell CBool
2021-03-30 23:40:24 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-30 23:41:04 +0200 <tefter> C doesn't have bool as well
2021-03-30 23:41:44 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@dvc-186-186-101-190.movil.vtr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 23:41:45 +0200 <tefter> if it is called inline-c I guess doesn' support bool
2021-03-30 23:42:42 +0200 <edwardk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-0.9.1.4/docs/src/Language.C.Inline.Context.html#baseT…
2021-03-30 23:42:55 +0200 <edwardk> (C.Bool, [t| CBool |])
2021-03-30 23:43:14 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 23:43:19 +0200 <edwardk> is the relevant line, so that goes into baseCtx
2021-03-30 23:43:22 +0200dcoutts(~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-30 23:43:26 +0200 <edwardk> you need to ensure you have that context loaded
2021-03-30 23:43:43 +0200 <RamZess> tefter, the use "import qualified "inline-c-cpp" Language.C.Inline.Cpp as C"
2021-03-30 23:43:50 +0200 <edwardk> usually that looks like
2021-03-30 23:43:51 +0200 <edwardk> https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L339
2021-03-30 23:44:00 +0200 <edwardk> see how i add C.baseCtx there?
2021-03-30 23:44:05 +0200 <edwardk> do you have a similar line?
2021-03-30 23:44:10 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-30 23:45:02 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:45:16 +0200 <RamZess> C.context (C.cppCtx <> openCvCtx)
2021-03-30 23:45:18 +0200Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:45:25 +0200 <edwardk> add C.baseCtx to that list
2021-03-30 23:45:43 +0200 <edwardk> then inline-c will understand bools
2021-03-30 23:46:03 +0200 <RamZess> edwardk, thx I will try...
2021-03-30 23:46:10 +0200 <edwardk> C.cppCtx i think is _just_ the thing that sets up the extern "C" { ... } wrapper
2021-03-30 23:47:09 +0200 <edwardk> nevermind, i'm a lying liar.
2021-03-30 23:47:10 +0200 <edwardk> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-cpp-0.4.0.3/docs/src/Language.C.Inline.Cpp.html#cppCtx
2021-03-30 23:47:15 +0200 <edwardk> its included in cppCtx
2021-03-30 23:47:19 +0200 <edwardk> hrmm
2021-03-30 23:48:09 +0200Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-026-062.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-03-30 23:48:20 +0200aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:906c:b23f:e55d:e8aa)
2021-03-30 23:49:26 +0200berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-03-30 23:49:30 +0200 <edwardk> note that CBool and whatever you get out of ffi may not be the same type, so eh, i tend to just make a little conversion to whatever convention the library works with rather than rely on that thing. adding something like https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/raw/Graphics/FreeType/Internal.hsc#L698
2021-03-30 23:49:50 +0200berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-30 23:50:02 +0200 <edwardk> then convert to/fro with $(FT_Bool whatever)
2021-03-30 23:50:15 +0200 <RamZess> ok
2021-03-30 23:51:09 +0200 <edwardk> it does require me to parse it on the back end when it comes out, which often turns into little /= 0 checks or the like: https://github.com/ekmett/codex/blob/master/freetype/src/Graphics/FreeType.hsc#L527
2021-03-30 23:51:37 +0200Tops22(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-026-062.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-30 23:51:43 +0200ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0)
2021-03-30 23:52:18 +0200Tene(~tene@mail.digitalkingdom.org)
2021-03-30 23:52:18 +0200Tene(~tene@mail.digitalkingdom.org) (Changing host)
2021-03-30 23:52:18 +0200Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene)
2021-03-30 23:52:25 +0200 <edwardk> i filed an issue to add support for negative antiquotation so you could add little 'on-the-way out' steps like that, so i could marshal haskell Bool in and out to the function cleanly without having the output direction be weird, but bitonic has been busy doing startup things
2021-03-30 23:53:17 +0200 <bitonic> edwardk: could you remind me of the issue, just in case?
2021-03-30 23:53:22 +0200 <bitonic> like, which issue is it
2021-03-30 23:53:59 +0200 <bitonic> i'm sure we discussed it but i can't find anything on https://github.com/fpco/inline-c/issues?q=is%3Aissue+author%3Aekmett so maybe it didn't end up being an issue
2021-03-30 23:54:25 +0200 <edwardk> basically an antiquoter gives you the tools for changing the value as it goes into the spliced code. but you don't have a way currently to hook an extra step on the way out when you might want to say bool is the result type and take the last step of converting the CBool -> Bool
2021-03-30 23:54:47 +0200 <bitonic> right
2021-03-30 23:54:50 +0200 <edwardk> yeah, i guess i filed it by throwing it at you over irc, rather than actually filing it ;)
2021-03-30 23:54:58 +0200 <bitonic> ok cool, i'll add it in my list of things to do when i'm bored!
2021-03-30 23:55:02 +0200 <bitonic> it doesn't sound very difficult
2021-03-30 23:55:48 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-30 23:56:06 +0200RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
2021-03-30 23:56:45 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-03-30 23:57:39 +0200 <zephyz> So…Nobody knows how to get GHC to output ARM64 binaries?
2021-03-30 23:59:15 +0200 <edwardk> zephyz: correct. complete mystery.
2021-03-30 23:59:41 +0200 <tefter> I don't think that ghc supports ARM
2021-03-30 23:59:53 +0200 <zephyz> tefter Oh