IRCBrowse

2021/03/09

2021-03-09 00:01:58 +0100 <monochrom> I forgot, what does Ada array indexing look like? I only remember it was nice.
2021-03-09 00:02:14 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-09 00:03:48 +0100 <Axman6> it's essentially arbitrary, you can say an array is indexed by Ints from 7 to 23. and also non numeric types, like having an enum of Red Green Bloe and defining Pixel = Array<Colour>
2021-03-09 00:04:42 +0100 <Axman6> it's essentially arbitrary, you can say an array is indexed by Ints from 7 to 23. and also non numeric types, like having an enum of Red Green Bloe and defining Pixel = Array<Colour>
2021-03-09 00:04:42 +0100 <monochrom> IIRC Pascal does that too.
2021-03-09 00:04:49 +0100minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.152)
2021-03-09 00:05:01 +0100 <monochrom> But doesn't Data.Array already do that, and take it to the next dimension too?
2021-03-09 00:05:06 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.143) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:05:49 +0100 <Axman6> yeah but it's clearly Ints uncerneath, it feels more baked into Ada
2021-03-09 00:06:00 +0100 <Axman6> underneath*
2021-03-09 00:06:34 +0100 <Axman6> and it wouldn't surprise me if it came from Pascal, since that's the closest language to Ada IIRC
2021-03-09 00:06:44 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-09 00:07:10 +0100 <monochrom> Ada = Pascal + parametric polymorphism + module + concurrency :)
2021-03-09 00:07:24 +0100 <monochrom> = Haskell + imperative + module
2021-03-09 00:07:30 +0100 <cookielady> hey there any non haskell hacking chats you use?
2021-03-09 00:07:30 +0100 <Axman6> yeah
2021-03-09 00:07:41 +0100 <Axman6> what sort of hacking?
2021-03-09 00:08:02 +0100 <monochrom> I use hexchat. Does that count?
2021-03-09 00:08:20 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> cookielady: what did you find?
2021-03-09 00:08:23 +0100 <Axman6> I think if you do /whois Axman6 you'
2021-03-09 00:08:25 +0100 <monochrom> Especially the very small hamming distance between "hacks" and "hex".
2021-03-09 00:08:43 +0100 <Axman6> ll see the pletheroa of channels I'm in
2021-03-09 00:09:18 +0100 <glguy> Axman6: your channel list is private, it will only show common channels when someone runs /whois on you
2021-03-09 00:09:23 +0100 <Axman6> aww
2021-03-09 00:09:49 +0100 <glguy> You can opt-out of that privacy with: /umode -i
2021-03-09 00:09:50 +0100 <monochrom> But the context is that cookielady is here for general IRC guidance, not for Haskell.
2021-03-09 00:10:03 +0100 <Axman6> I guess not then!
2021-03-09 00:10:06 +0100 <monochrom> At some point I will have to point out "this is not a directory service either".
2021-03-09 00:10:58 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-09 00:11:14 +0100 <Axman6> cookielady: answering that question is difficult without knowing what you're itnerested in
2021-03-09 00:11:17 +0100 <cookielady> yes you right, but thats just because i dont really know haskell. do you wanna explain me a lil bit of what you actully use haskell for
2021-03-09 00:11:55 +0100 <Axman6> Programs :)
2021-03-09 00:12:03 +0100 <monochrom> Programming and understanding programming. Not for hacking.
2021-03-09 00:12:27 +0100 <Axman6> web services, data processing, playing with algorithms, #job
2021-03-09 00:12:42 +0100 <ephemient> well, depends on the definition of "hacking" in use
2021-03-09 00:13:06 +0100 <Axman6> I hack around with all sorts of things
2021-03-09 00:13:11 +0100 <glguy> I use Haskell to host my Lua programs
2021-03-09 00:13:14 +0100 <Axman6> in haskell*
2021-03-09 00:13:18 +0100 <Axman6> ha
2021-03-09 00:13:22 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> cookielady: so you joined a bunch of channels? are there channels comparable to haskell in terms of activity per day?
2021-03-09 00:13:26 +0100 <monochrom> Actually as it happens I don't use Haskell for any definition of hacking. I use shell scripts for one of the definitions of hacking.
2021-03-09 00:13:35 +0100 <cookielady> Axman6: alright  interesting, but how do you actually use haskell , because on haskell i only got to know this chatroom
2021-03-09 00:14:04 +0100 <monochrom> I open an editor and start typing in code?
2021-03-09 00:14:15 +0100 <monochrom> Then run an interpreter to test my code?
2021-03-09 00:14:27 +0100 <Axman6> I don't know how to answer that question cookielady
2021-03-09 00:14:30 +0100 <ephemient> Haskell is a general purpose language, you program in it just like most other languages
2021-03-09 00:14:52 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2600:1700:48eb:8490:9951:ddf8:bc56:65f5) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 00:14:54 +0100 <cookielady> alright then
2021-03-09 00:14:58 +0100 <cookielady> thank you guys
2021-03-09 00:15:00 +0100 <Axman6> how do you use C? How do you use Java? How do you use Python?
2021-03-09 00:15:04 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:15:14 +0100 <ephemient> the major implementation GHC will compile Haskell code to native binaries, not interpreted - but it also comes with GHCi, an interactive REPL that can interpret your code
2021-03-09 00:16:21 +0100 <monochrom> And eventually conclude "I'm so glad this is not C++"?
2021-03-09 00:17:11 +0100 <monochrom> Sorry but I'm doing LLVM homework. It really shows C++ oddballness. Powerful but unreadable.
2021-03-09 00:17:27 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2600:1700:48eb:8490:9951:ddf8:bc56:65f5)
2021-03-09 00:17:58 +0100 <monochrom> A classmate goes further and words it as "C++ syntax is toxic".
2021-03-09 00:18:03 +0100Guest15380(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:18:21 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> ^^ +1
2021-03-09 00:18:52 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c500:64a8:b98c:677d)
2021-03-09 00:18:54 +0100 <monochrom> To be sure, the semantics is the toxic one, the syntax is just a reflection of that.
2021-03-09 00:19:05 +0100 <Axman6> I've been watching a few videos recently from CPPcon or something and yeah I'm always blown away by how batshit crazy the syntax it
2021-03-09 00:19:14 +0100cfvnhtsp^(cfvnhtsp@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-03-09 00:20:29 +0100 <Axman6> I watched a video on implementing ... HAMTs or B-Trees or something, and seeing how many hoops needed to be jumped through to get what we have in ST and Vector/MVector was painful
2021-03-09 00:20:47 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> Axman6: "how do you use C? How do you use Java? How do you use Python?" I think you can broadly categorize languages by usage.
2021-03-09 00:20:52 +0100 <Axman6> and just crazy shit like someFunction() = 0; like whatever is that
2021-03-09 00:20:52 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> C - systems programming
2021-03-09 00:21:05 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> Java - corporate webapps
2021-03-09 00:21:17 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> Python - scripts, data science, etc.
2021-03-09 00:21:25 +0100jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:21:32 +0100 <Axman6> Java was supposed to be an embedded real-time language
2021-03-09 00:22:10 +0100 <ephemient> C++ like "oh no initialization parentheses are horrible, we need to invent initialization braces" "oh no we invented initialization braces wrong, we need new braces"
2021-03-09 00:22:44 +0100 <Axman6> seems like auto is making C++ much less insane these days though
2021-03-09 00:23:11 +0100 <monochrom> I have mixed feelings about auto.
2021-03-09 00:23:50 +0100 <Axman6> me too, it seels like it's pretty easy to get the wrong type so you end up needing to add back in things like const frequently
2021-03-09 00:23:59 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-09 00:24:14 +0100Axman6says this without having actually written any C++ but has seen plenty of talks on it, which masically makes him an expert
2021-03-09 00:24:15 +0100 <monochrom> Not to deny the pros, but sometimes the cons show: I now have no idea what is the type and therefore which methods and operators are applicable.
2021-03-09 00:24:38 +0100Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-089-002.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 00:24:57 +0100 <monochrom> Whereas Haskell gets it right. Don't make it tedious to handwrite the type.
2021-03-09 00:25:10 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-09 00:25:24 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:25:24 +0100 <ephemient> ideally it would be optional... but they made the types of lambda expressions un-denotable so you can *only* use auto with them...
2021-03-09 00:25:26 +0100 <d34df00d> Axman6: > HAMTs or B-Trees or something, and seeing how many hoops needed to be jumped through to get what we have in ST and Vector/MVector was painful
2021-03-09 00:25:31 +0100 <d34df00d> Curious about that, as a former C++ guy.
2021-03-09 00:25:33 +0100bss03(~bss@ip70-178-92-189.ks.ks.cox.net)
2021-03-09 00:25:38 +0100 <monochrom> Types can be inferred but there are still many reasons to handwrite the type nonetheless.
2021-03-09 00:25:43 +0100 <d34df00d> Do you have a link to some video? I'd be curious to see and compare.
2021-03-09 00:25:44 +0100xsperry(~as@unaffiliated/xsperry) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 00:25:57 +0100 <Axman6> I'll have a look
2021-03-09 00:26:21 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:26:27 +0100 <Axman6> https://youtu.be/sPhpelUfu8Q
2021-03-09 00:26:33 +0100xsperry(~as@unaffiliated/xsperry)
2021-03-09 00:26:34 +0100 <d34df00d> Also, don't confuse auto and decltype(auto), those are two very different things.
2021-03-09 00:26:53 +0100 <d34df00d> So []() -> auto { ... } is very different from []() -> decltype(auto) { ... }
2021-03-09 00:27:17 +0100 <d34df00d> Axman6: yay thanks!
2021-03-09 00:27:30 +0100jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55)
2021-03-09 00:28:25 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.82.20) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 00:29:22 +0100 <bss03> Recommended web application framework that maximizes server-side rendering? I'd like to use react-haskell, but that's a mild preference... doesn't even have to be haskell, I prefer types over no types, but this isn't going to be a huge app.
2021-03-09 00:29:51 +0100 <monochrom> One of those static website generators.
2021-03-09 00:30:42 +0100 <monochrom> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gitit
2021-03-09 00:30:45 +0100 <bss03> Well, it wouldn't be static exactly. I'll need a lot of JS/WASM generated. :/
2021-03-09 00:30:56 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-09 00:31:09 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:33:03 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> one would expect node js to play well with server side rendering
2021-03-09 00:33:21 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> js on server
2021-03-09 00:33:56 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> not sure if it really helps in that case though
2021-03-09 00:34:02 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> Is there a way that I can have multiple types like `type A a b c = ...` `type A a b c d = ...`? I tried doing just that, but is there a way to have optional arguments like so?
2021-03-09 00:34:32 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:246b:c0a0:2c4b:51c3)
2021-03-09 00:34:46 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> those are different kinds, if you know what I mean
2021-03-09 00:35:13 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> or not?
2021-03-09 00:35:17 +0100 <monochrom> No, you need to pick different names.
2021-03-09 00:35:22 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> I kind of do
2021-03-09 00:35:24 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> ok
2021-03-09 00:35:47 +0100 <monochrom> optional arguments is not a thing in Haskell, whether term level or type level.
2021-03-09 00:35:53 +0100 <dmj`> heck-to-the-gnom: no, the way people accomplish this is with one giant ADT that has a ton of type variables, and various newtypes that partially apply types internally, or additional type synonyms that specialize A
2021-03-09 00:36:10 +0100 <monochrom> Eventually you may to need check out "type classes", they may do some things you want.
2021-03-09 00:36:15 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b952755918a10780a6c9a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-03-09 00:36:26 +0100 <dmj`> but first look at yourself in the mirror and ask if this is necessary
2021-03-09 00:37:00 +0100 <monochrom> "Mirror mirror who has the most beautiful code?"? >:)
2021-03-09 00:37:42 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> hmm, I think this thing is not related to kinds, not sure
2021-03-09 00:37:47 +0100 <hpc> mirror mirror on the wall, which queue is the fairest of them all
2021-03-09 00:37:59 +0100 <dmj`> hpc: you beat me to it :P
2021-03-09 00:38:11 +0100Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-b555-d7b0-b650-3d1b.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-09 00:38:35 +0100AlleriaGuest83912
2021-03-09 00:39:49 +0100 <bss03> Wanting to improve on https://bss03.gitlab.io/vue-webpack-ts-lambda (https://gitlab.com/bss03/vue-webpack-ts-lambda), prefrrably using less typescript and more haskell and react.
2021-03-09 00:39:54 +0100 <monochrom> "You have the most beautiful Java code in all Javaland"
2021-03-09 00:40:03 +0100 <monochrom> "But I mean universally"
2021-03-09 00:40:24 +0100 <monochrom> "Well OK, SPJ in Haskellland has more beautiful code in Haskell"
2021-03-09 00:40:36 +0100 <monochrom> "I'm gonna buy him a Mac"
2021-03-09 00:40:56 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> public static void main (String[] args) - it is like a poem
2021-03-09 00:41:22 +0100 <hpc> if you really want beautiful code, buy him a netbook that boots straight into vim :D
2021-03-09 00:41:49 +0100 <dmj`> minoru_shiraeesh: it's almost a haiku
2021-03-09 00:41:57 +0100mceier(~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:43:25 +0100mceier(~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-03-09 00:43:57 +0100ShalokShalom(b9110d05@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.17.13.5)
2021-03-09 00:44:12 +0100 <monochrom> What is minify?
2021-03-09 00:44:33 +0100 <ShalokShalom> What is the widely accepted alternative for records in Haskell for beginner?
2021-03-09 00:44:59 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> you mean alternative to using the "data" keyword?
2021-03-09 00:45:11 +0100 <monochrom> Don't use any record?
2021-03-09 00:45:42 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:246b:c0a0:2c4b:51c3) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 00:46:28 +0100 <hpc> monochrom: minify shrinks javascript by removing whitespace and shortening identifiers and such, for better use of bandwidth
2021-03-09 00:46:33 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:246b:c0a0:2c4b:51c3)
2021-03-09 00:46:54 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 00:47:03 +0100cookielady(5f5ebd5c@a95-94-189-92.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:47:16 +0100 <ShalokShalom> I read records are broken
2021-03-09 00:47:37 +0100 <ShalokShalom> So can I use them without biting myself into the back?
2021-03-09 00:47:54 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 00:48:15 +0100 <monochrom> Do you mean http://hackage.haskell.org/package/records ? Or do you mean something else? Examples?
2021-03-09 00:48:17 +0100 <ShalokShalom> I heard they are one of the most fundamental problems in Haskell
2021-03-09 00:48:30 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Idk. The standard build in records.
2021-03-09 00:48:37 +0100 <dmj`> ShalokShalom: records are not broken, they're just not extensible.
2021-03-09 00:48:46 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Like what can I use to replace fsharp reccords
2021-03-09 00:49:20 +0100 <ShalokShalom> How mich of an issue is that in practice?
2021-03-09 00:49:23 +0100 <dmj`> ShalokShalom: records are extremely powerful in Haskell, even w/o row polymorphism. Generics and GHC's deriving mechanism make records extremely powerful and featureful
2021-03-09 00:49:34 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Ok, nice
2021-03-09 00:50:05 +0100 <monochrom> Beginners would not run into the limitations of Haskell record syntax.
2021-03-09 00:50:30 +0100 <monochrom> Apart from a bit more verbose syntax.
2021-03-09 00:51:12 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Hmm
2021-03-09 00:51:24 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Deriving mechanism?
2021-03-09 00:51:29 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-09 00:51:31 +0100 <ShalokShalom> Read on that.
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2021-03-09 02:21:00 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:7983:6818:9a30:22a5) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 02:21:47 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:7983:6818:9a30:22a5)
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2021-03-09 02:28:11 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-03-09 02:35:00 +0100drakonis(~drakonis@unaffiliated/drakonis)
2021-03-09 02:38:09 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Quit: Caught exception)
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2021-03-09 02:39:02 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-03-09 02:46:33 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
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2021-03-09 02:54:51 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-09 02:55:52 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Client Quit)
2021-03-09 02:59:15 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-09 03:01:13 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-09 03:06:36 +0100minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.152) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 03:06:36 +0100sveit(~sveit@45.77.0.246) (Quit: Bye)
2021-03-09 03:06:36 +0100simplegauss(~simplegau@45.77.0.246) (Quit: Bye)
2021-03-09 03:07:10 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-09 03:13:45 +0100augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:5bdd:b325:740e:cfd8)
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2021-03-09 03:18:18 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-03-09 03:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-09 03:22:48 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-09 03:24:03 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3520:c14a:ca04:2b99) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-09 03:25:59 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 03:26:28 +0100guest39(~user@49.5.6.87)
2021-03-09 03:27:56 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.4)
2021-03-09 03:27:57 +0100 <guest39> [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7] how to get all elements sum of the even index and odd index?
2021-03-09 03:28:20 +0100 <guest39> [0+2+4+6, 1+3+5+7]
2021-03-09 03:29:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-09 03:31:49 +0100ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-03-09 03:32:29 +0100 <glguy> guest39, validating a credit card?
2021-03-09 03:35:13 +0100 <lyxia> > foldr (\x (i,j,k) -> (j+x,i,not k)) (0,0,False) [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j]
2021-03-09 03:35:14 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwhkjwvkwzspfstr) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-09 03:35:15 +0100 <lambdabot> (0 + i + g + e + c + a,0 + j + h + f + d + b,False)
2021-03-09 03:36:48 +0100 <guest39> ...
2021-03-09 03:36:49 +0100 <lyxia> I guess I don't need the booleans if we're indexing normally
2021-03-09 03:37:03 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 03:40:02 +0100 <siraben> What's the categorical reason why lens compose backwards?
2021-03-09 03:41:51 +0100alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.96) (Quit: alx741)
2021-03-09 03:41:54 +0100 <siraben> IIU, Lens are morphisms in the profunctor category
2021-03-09 03:45:00 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-03-09 03:45:01 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-09 03:46:59 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 03:46:59 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-03-09 03:48:34 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-03-09 03:51:03 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5322:b100:4b34:5fe:a761:7d97) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 03:52:39 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:535c:a00:5328:b97c:8fc5:c4d4)
2021-03-09 03:55:31 +0100 <dolio> It doesn't have anything to do with category theory. It's because a lens from whole to part is implemented as a function with type `E[part] -> E[whole]`, so if you just compose the functions implementing them, the ordering is going to be backwards from how you might expect.
2021-03-09 04:02:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:03:08 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3520:c14a:ca04:2b99)
2021-03-09 04:03:12 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3520:c14a:ca04:2b99) (Client Quit)
2021-03-09 04:03:30 +0100 <Axman6> :t let split [] = ([],[]); split [x] = ([x],[]); split (x:y:xs) = bimap (x:) (y:) $ split xs in (sum *** sum) $ split [1..7]
2021-03-09 04:03:31 +0100 <lambdabot> (Num a, Enum a) => (a, a)
2021-03-09 04:03:37 +0100 <Axman6> > let split [] = ([],[]); split [x] = ([x],[]); split (x:y:xs) = bimap (x:) (y:) $ split xs in (sum *** sum) $ split [1..7]
2021-03-09 04:03:38 +0100 <lambdabot> (16,12)
2021-03-09 04:04:21 +0100 <Axman6> should probably be ([],[x]) if evens are on the left
2021-03-09 04:04:35 +0100 <Axman6> no
2021-03-09 04:04:44 +0100 <Axman6> > let split [] = ([],[]); split [x] = ([x],[]); split (x:y:xs) = bimap (x:) (y:) $ split xs in (sum *** sum) $ split [0..7]
2021-03-09 04:04:46 +0100 <lambdabot> (12,16)
2021-03-09 04:07:55 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 04:10:17 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> Is there a way that I could convert `[a, b, c]` to `a + b + c` - Similar to to `zipWith`, but only running the operation on one list
2021-03-09 04:10:46 +0100 <Axman6> sum?
2021-03-09 04:10:56 +0100 <Axman6> > sum [a,b,c] :: Expr
2021-03-09 04:10:57 +0100 <lambdabot> 0 + a + b + c
2021-03-09 04:11:11 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> And, not just `+` specifically, `<+>` or `,` etc would need to be possible too
2021-03-09 04:11:22 +0100 <Axman6> what you're describing is a fold
2021-03-09 04:11:26 +0100 <Axman6> :t foldl
2021-03-09 04:11:27 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (b -> a -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2021-03-09 04:11:27 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-03-09 04:11:28 +0100finn_elijaGuest27267
2021-03-09 04:11:28 +0100FinnElijafinn_elija
2021-03-09 04:11:28 +0100 <Axman6> :t foldr
2021-03-09 04:11:29 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2021-03-09 04:11:39 +0100 <Axman6> % :t foldl @[]
2021-03-09 04:11:39 +0100 <yahb> Axman6: (b -> a -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b
2021-03-09 04:11:43 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> ah, thx
2021-03-09 04:11:55 +0100 <Axman6> > foldl (*) 1 [a,b,c] :: Expr
2021-03-09 04:11:57 +0100 <lambdabot> 1 * a * b * c
2021-03-09 04:12:04 +0100 <Axman6> > foldr (*) 1 [a,b,c] :: Expr
2021-03-09 04:12:06 +0100 <lambdabot> a * (b * (c * 1))
2021-03-09 04:12:39 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:13:08 +0100albethere(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dbnctqivboqvftoe) ()
2021-03-09 04:13:49 +0100 <Axman6> this is a quite fundamental topic in functional programming in general, so it's worth spending some time on. like how to you use foldr to make [[a]] -> [a] where all the lists are concatenated, how do you append two lists using foldr ([a] -> [a] -> [a])
2021-03-09 04:14:03 +0100albethere(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oicrocvqkpivxmgb)
2021-03-09 04:15:08 +0100Guest27267(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:15:11 +0100 <Axman6> there's also very little relationship with zipWith, at least for inital understanding
2021-03-09 04:15:39 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> zipWith is just what I'd seen before, so I used that as a reference point
2021-03-09 04:19:47 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-09 04:22:05 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-09 04:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-09 04:22:49 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-09 04:24:30 +0100ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 04:25:08 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:29:27 +0100 <redmp> I'm having a bit of trouble vith flake-compat
2021-03-09 04:29:28 +0100waskell_(~quassel@d66-183-124-203.bchsia.telus.net)
2021-03-09 04:30:02 +0100 <redmp> can anybody here help out? here's my example repro: https://termbin.com/y2rj
2021-03-09 04:30:19 +0100 <redmp> I'm getting the error "called without required argument 'nixpkgs'"
2021-03-09 04:30:53 +0100 <redmp> nixpkgs is present in my inputs, and nixpkgs is an input to my outputs function
2021-03-09 04:32:17 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2021-03-09 04:33:05 +0100waskell(~quassel@d66-183-230-153.bchsia.telus.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 04:33:58 +0100 <monochrom> I wonder if you accidentally used the wrong channel.
2021-03-09 04:35:11 +0100 <redmp> oh, again.. i keep doing this recently! i'm sorry
2021-03-09 04:35:33 +0100 <Axman6> back to millitary police school for you!
2021-03-09 04:36:14 +0100 <monochrom> I just worried that in case of wrong channel you don't get the help you need.
2021-03-09 04:37:08 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> To be fair, however, you weren't that far off as far as channels go. I learned of nix from this channel, actually.
2021-03-09 04:38:43 +0100theDon(~td@94.134.91.237) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:38:49 +0100 <redmp> hah! yeah, the two places have a bit in common.. but the problem is this is maybe the 4th time i've done this between the two channels in the past week.. i seem to be losing my marbles
2021-03-09 04:40:17 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-174.citykom.de)
2021-03-09 04:40:29 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnwfbntchtcoqxxp) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-09 04:40:42 +0100 <monochrom> Similarly, I have had student mistakenly emailed me "hi prof X, I have a timetable conflict with your MAT304 midterm, what can I do?", where I am not prof X and I don't tach MAT304. This is when I must reply "wrong address" because if the student doesn't realize it, much disaster will happen.
2021-03-09 04:41:55 +0100 <Axman6> so what are you doing with LLVM anyway and why not do it in Haskell? guessing it's not just something that spits out LLVM IR?
2021-03-09 04:42:40 +0100 <monochrom> It's a code optimization course, write your own analyses and/or transformation passes.
2021-03-09 04:42:42 +0100 <curiousgay> https://wiki.haskell.org/How_to_work_on_lists I don't understand map ($ my_element) xs
2021-03-09 04:43:16 +0100 <Axman6> curiousgay: ($ x) is the same as (\f -> f $ x), does that help at all?
2021-03-09 04:43:21 +0100 <monochrom> And it has to be LLVM, using the LLVM API.
2021-03-09 04:43:46 +0100 <Axman6> hoq doesa the pattern matching stuff in LLVM feel, coming from Haskell?
2021-03-09 04:43:54 +0100 <Axman6> w*
2021-03-09 04:44:08 +0100 <monochrom> What pattern matching? :)
2021-03-09 04:44:26 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-09 04:44:56 +0100 <Axman6> I thought a lot of IR transfermations and optimisations were written by describing patterns to find in the IR and some funky, possibly template driven, pattern matching thing
2021-03-09 04:45:36 +0100 <monochrom> It's just "isa<Instruction>(my_Value_pointer)" or "if ((x = dyn_cast<Instruction>(my_Value_pointer)) != 0)"
2021-03-09 04:45:55 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: I thought $ is the operator that separates functions, not data
2021-03-09 04:46:19 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 04:46:38 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps gcc does use that declarative style because it can use some kind of Lisp.
2021-03-09 04:47:04 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:47:13 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:47:37 +0100 <Axman6> it's a function, just like any other. (+ 3) is a function which adds three to whatever it is applied to, it is equivalent to (\n -> n + 3). in the same way, ($ x) is a function which, when given a function, applies it to x, so is the same as (\f -> f $ x), a.k.a, (\f -> f x)
2021-03-09 04:47:43 +0100 <monochrom> LLVM in C++? You feel like you are a Haskell compiler compiling pattern matching to if-then-else and isa and dyn_cast and "x.opcode == Add".
2021-03-09 04:49:13 +0100 <Axman6> it's a function, just like any other. (+ 3) is a function which adds three to whatever it is applied to, it is equivalent to (\n -> n + 3). in the same way, ($ x) is a function which, when given a function, applies it to x, so is the same as (\f -> f $ x), a.k.a, (\f -> f x)
2021-03-09 04:49:16 +0100 <Axman6> uh
2021-03-09 04:49:22 +0100 <Axman6> haven't they even heard of catamorphisms? D:
2021-03-09 04:49:41 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: but what's said there is about specific "my_element", that's confusing, I though that'll help to avoid if else pairs in map's argument
2021-03-09 04:49:43 +0100 <Axman6> whoever build the keyboard (me) did a really dumb thing putting ' and up arrow near enter
2021-03-09 04:49:48 +0100wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 04:49:52 +0100supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-09 04:49:57 +0100guest39`(~user@49.5.6.87)
2021-03-09 04:50:01 +0100 <Axman6> curiousgay: I don't understand the question
2021-03-09 04:50:02 +0100muzimuzhi(17ef15ef@23.239.21.239)
2021-03-09 04:50:17 +0100poljar1(~poljar@93-139-44-107.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2021-03-09 04:50:21 +0100muzimuzhi(17ef15ef@23.239.21.239) (Client Quit)
2021-03-09 04:50:24 +0100sm2n_(~sm2n@bras-base-hmtnon143hw-grc-15-70-54-78-219.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-03-09 04:50:31 +0100travisb_(~travisb@2600:1700:7990:24e0:1282:ff43:20c2:7b5f)
2021-03-09 04:50:33 +0100 <monochrom> $ does not separate function. or data, for that matter.
2021-03-09 04:50:34 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: search in that link "Apply a list of functions to a single element to get a list of results."
2021-03-09 04:50:36 +0100Tesseraction_y(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction)
2021-03-09 04:50:42 +0100david__(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-09 04:50:45 +0100tabemann(~travisb@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) (Disconnected by services)
2021-03-09 04:50:50 +0100ddellaco_(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-03-09 04:50:51 +0100gawen_(~gawen@movzbl.root.sx)
2021-03-09 04:50:51 +0100travisb_tabemann
2021-03-09 04:50:53 +0100jonathanx__(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-03-09 04:50:56 +0100gothos_(~gothos@antsy.jhz.name)
2021-03-09 04:50:57 +0100bollu7(~bollu@139.59.46.74)
2021-03-09 04:51:01 +0100 <Axman6> curiousgay: are you happy with the fact that in that partticular example, xx :: [a -> b], a.k.a, a list of function all of the same type, a -> b? and that my_element :: a?
2021-03-09 04:51:06 +0100nshepperd27(~nshepperd@li364-218.members.linode.com)
2021-03-09 04:51:08 +0100polux20015(~polux@51.15.169.172)
2021-03-09 04:51:08 +0100 <Axman6> uh, xx = xs
2021-03-09 04:51:10 +0100DataComp_(~lumeng@50.43.26.251)
2021-03-09 04:51:23 +0100Katarushisu5(~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-09 04:51:25 +0100 <monochrom> What I recommend is sleep on $'s type: (a->b) -> a -> b
2021-03-09 04:51:27 +0100Athas_(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:5551:513a:128c:3291)
2021-03-09 04:51:28 +0100[1]MrMobius(~MrMobius@208.58.206.154)
2021-03-09 04:51:35 +0100caubert_(~caubert@136.244.111.235)
2021-03-09 04:51:37 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:51:47 +0100drewolson3(~drewolson@64.227.24.16)
2021-03-09 04:51:54 +0100lep_(~lep@94.31.86.183)
2021-03-09 04:52:02 +0100dave_uy33(~david@108.61.193.26)
2021-03-09 04:52:28 +0100 <Axman6> > map ($ True) [show, const "Hello", \b -> if b then "Ok!" else "Nope!]
2021-03-09 04:52:29 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:70: error:
2021-03-09 04:52:30 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:70: error:
2021-03-09 04:52:30 +0100 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
2021-03-09 04:52:36 +0100 <Axman6> > map ($ True) [show, const "Hello", \b -> if b then "Ok!" else "Nope!"]
2021-03-09 04:52:36 +0100 <monochrom> Alternatively, ignore $, don't use it. For the exercise, use the "map" function and write your own lambda to give to map.
2021-03-09 04:52:38 +0100 <lambdabot> ["True","Hello","Ok!"]
2021-03-09 04:52:47 +0100 <Axman6> > map ($ False) [show, const "Hello", \b -> if b then "Ok!" else "Nope!"]
2021-03-09 04:52:49 +0100 <lambdabot> ["False","Hello","Nope!"]
2021-03-09 04:52:51 +0100Arch-TK(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK)
2021-03-09 04:52:54 +0100MTwister(~Twister@2a01:4f8:171:4de::40:2)
2021-03-09 04:52:54 +0100zopsi_(zopsi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe14:551f)
2021-03-09 04:53:10 +0100haasn`(~nand@mpv/developer/haasn)
2021-03-09 04:53:18 +0100ralu4(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-09 04:53:23 +0100madnight_(~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-09 04:53:35 +0100styledash9(~styledash@157.230.173.136)
2021-03-09 04:53:37 +0100jol(jol@jol.dev)
2021-03-09 04:53:39 +0100 <curiousgay> wow
2021-03-09 04:53:42 +0100ekleog_(~ii@prologin/ekleog)
2021-03-09 04:53:55 +0100Xnuk-(~xnuk@vultr.xnu.kr)
2021-03-09 04:53:59 +0100Majoo(~Majiir@pool-96-237-149-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-09 04:54:05 +0100forell_(~forell@unaffiliated/forell)
2021-03-09 04:54:09 +0100LittleFox94(~littlefox@rondra.lf-net.org)
2021-03-09 04:54:10 +0100Techcable_(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-09 04:54:11 +0100 <Axman6> > map (\functionFromList -> functionFromList $ False) [show, const "Hello", \b -> if b then "Ok!" else "Nope!"]
2021-03-09 04:54:12 +0100 <lambdabot> ["False","Hello","Nope!"]
2021-03-09 04:54:14 +0100mawk`(mawk@serveur.io)
2021-03-09 04:54:18 +0100jlamothe_(~jlamothe@198.251.55.207)
2021-03-09 04:54:18 +0100oleks_(~oleks@188.166.34.97)
2021-03-09 04:54:19 +0100ptrcmd_(~ptrcmd@unaffiliated/petercommand)
2021-03-09 04:54:20 +0100int-e_(~noone@int-e.eu)
2021-03-09 04:54:22 +0100haveo_(~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr)
2021-03-09 04:54:24 +0100Tene_(~tene@mail.digitalkingdom.org)
2021-03-09 04:54:28 +0100tasuki_(~tasuki@198.211.120.27)
2021-03-09 04:54:29 +0100dminuoso_(~dminuoso@static.88-198-218-68.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-09 04:54:30 +0100Philonous_(~Philonous@unaffiliated/philonous)
2021-03-09 04:54:30 +0100sablib1(~sablib@59.173.154.11)
2021-03-09 04:54:30 +0100micro_(~micro@a9.lence.net)
2021-03-09 04:54:33 +0100neobit_(~neobit@159.65.243.9)
2021-03-09 04:54:34 +0100Uma_(~uma@umazalakain.info)
2021-03-09 04:54:39 +0100tomku|two(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku)
2021-03-09 04:54:39 +0100cafce25_(~cafce25@ipbcc3009d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-09 04:54:41 +0100dequbed_(~dequbed@2001:bc8:3f24:100::1)
2021-03-09 04:54:42 +0100fr33domlover1(~fr33domlo@fsf/member/fr33domlover)
2021-03-09 04:54:45 +0100sdressel_(~sdressel@pwning.de)
2021-03-09 04:54:52 +0100gargawel(~gael@212.83.144.58)
2021-03-09 04:54:53 +0100kosmikus_(~kosmikus@nullzig.kosmikus.org)
2021-03-09 04:54:54 +0100micro_Guest47409
2021-03-09 04:55:00 +0100seveg_(~gabriel@2a02-ab04-0249-8d00-dea6-32ff-fe17-0993.dynamic.v6.chello.sk)
2021-03-09 04:55:02 +0100ps-auxw(~arneb@p548d56ce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Disconnected by services)
2021-03-09 04:55:04 +0100hexo|(~hexo@2a01:430:17:1::ffff:328)
2021-03-09 04:55:05 +0100sujeet`(sujeet@unaffiliated/freeboson)
2021-03-09 04:55:10 +0100ps-auxw(~arneb@p548d56ce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-03-09 04:55:13 +0100fryguybo1(~fryguybob@cpe-74-65-31-113.rochester.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 04:55:13 +0100cods_(~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net)
2021-03-09 04:55:15 +0100noctux`(Bk2iLb2JsC@unaffiliated/noctux)
2021-03-09 04:55:23 +0100abrar(~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-09 04:55:31 +0100wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-09 04:55:35 +0100bind1(~bind@unaffiliated/bind)
2021-03-09 04:55:42 +0100tjbp_(~tom@2001:19f0:7400:8d4c:5400:2ff:fe2c:5662)
2021-03-09 04:55:46 +0100Geekingfrog_(~geekingfr@li2156-64.members.linode.com)
2021-03-09 04:55:47 +0100nitrix_(~nitrix@haskell/developer/nitrix)
2021-03-09 04:55:57 +0100 <Axman6> that page looks like a really poor resource to learn from IMO - useful if you have known how to do these things in the past as a reminder, but not useful for learning from
2021-03-09 04:56:01 +0100afx237(~afx237@107.170.10.178)
2021-03-09 04:56:26 +0100datajerk_(~datajerk@sense.net)
2021-03-09 04:56:26 +0100WzC(~Frank@77-162-168-71.fixed.kpn.net)
2021-03-09 04:56:30 +0100Vq_(~vq@90-227-195-41-no77.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-03-09 04:56:40 +0100rkv(~user@138.197.72.132)
2021-03-09 04:56:42 +0100elliott_1(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-09 04:56:45 +0100chindy_(~quassel@51.15.63.78)
2021-03-09 04:56:52 +0100 <monochrom> True of most of wiki.haskell.org really.
2021-03-09 04:57:36 +0100kaletaa_(~kaletaa@188.34.177.83)
2021-03-09 04:57:42 +0100vodkaInferno(~wormphleg@104.131.156.184)
2021-03-09 04:57:51 +0100quinn_(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 04:57:55 +0100sh91(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net)
2021-03-09 04:58:10 +0100omnitrogen_(~omnitroge@vps-c9700282.vps.ovh.net)
2021-03-09 04:58:46 +0100Ekho(~Ekho@unaffiliated/ekho) (Disconnected by services)
2021-03-09 04:58:47 +0100 <monochrom> Most authors there are driven by enthusiasm in Haskell. Not to be confused with enthusiasm in teaching and explaining Haskell with clarity and focus.
2021-03-09 04:59:03 +0100Cthalupa-(~cthulhu@47.186.47.75)
2021-03-09 04:59:13 +0100drakonis-(~drakonis@unaffiliated/drakonis)
2021-03-09 04:59:24 +0100ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:24 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100mceier(~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100JokerAscensionEx(~egp_@2.95.74.168) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100drakonis(~drakonis@unaffiliated/drakonis) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Nikotiini(~ubuntu@ec2-52-213-118-142.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100jonathanx_(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Tesseraction(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sablib(~sablib@171.113.165.91) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100atk(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100caubert(~caubert@136.244.111.235) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100LittleFox(~littlefox@rondra.lf-net.org) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Jesin(~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100apoc(~apoc@49.12.13.193) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sm2n(~sm2n@bras-base-hmtnon143hw-grc-15-70-54-78-219.dsl.bell.ca) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100oleks(~oleks@188.166.34.97) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100mawk(mawk@serveur.io) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100omnitrogen(~omnitroge@vps-c9700282.vps.ovh.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100int-e(~noone@int-e.eu) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100d34df00d(~d34df00d@104-14-27-213.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100cods(~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100noctux(~noctux@unaffiliated/noctux) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100chirpsalot(~Chirps@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100alp(~alp@163.172.83.213) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100poljar(~poljar@93-139-44-107.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Philonous(~Philonous@unaffiliated/philonous) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ManiacTwister(~Twister@claudia.s7t.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100neobit(~neobit@159.65.243.9) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100rkvist(~user@138.197.72.132) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100nitrix(~nitrix@haskell/developer/nitrix) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100noctuks(rAUWWueNl5@unaffiliated/noctux) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ralu(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100MrMobius(~MrMobius@208.58.206.154) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100seveg(~gabriel@188-167-252-202.dynamic.chello.sk) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100WarzoneCommand(~Frank@77-162-168-71.fixed.kpn.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100xlei(znc@unaffiliated/xlei) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100tv(~tv@unaffiliated/tv) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100kosmikus(~kosmikus@haskell/developer/kosmikus) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100lassulus(~lassulus@NixOS/user/lassulus) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100gawen(~gawen@movzbl.root.sx) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100fr33domlover(~fr33domlo@fsf/member/fr33domlover) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100datajerk(~datajerk@sense.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Cthalupa(~cthulhu@47.186.47.75) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100haasn(~nand@mpv/developer/haasn) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100micro(~micro@unaffiliated/micro) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100hexo-(~hexo@83.167.228.130) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100drewolson(~drewolson@64.227.24.16) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100cgfbee(~bot@oc1.itim-cj.ro) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100lep-delete(~lep@94.31.86.183) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100andjjj23(~irc@107.170.228.47) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100arahael(~arahael@121-44-10-207.tpgi.com.au) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100amx(amx@percival.namespace.at) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100hrnz(~hrnz@unaffiliated/hrnz) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100so(~so@unaffiliated/so) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100guest39(~user@49.5.6.87) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Chefe(~Chefe@178.239.168.171) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100kam1(~kam1@113.203.63.161) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100supercoven_(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100cafce25(~cafce25@ipbcc3009d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100jess(jess@freenode/staff/jess) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100_ashbreeze_(~mark@64.85.214.234.reverse.socket.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100mniip(~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.55.207) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100meck(~meck@li1809-18.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sim642(~simmo@unaffiliated/sim642) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100dequbed(~dequbed@yanduxian.paranoidlabs.org) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sujeet(sujeet@unaffiliated/freeboson) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100zopsi(~zopsi@irc.dir.ac) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100abrar_(~abrar@static-108-30-103-121.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100sdressel(~sdressel@pwning.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ekleog(~ii@prologin/ekleog) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100styledash(~styledash@157.230.173.136) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100dave_uy3(~david@108.61.193.26) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100marble_visions(~user@68.183.79.8) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-65-31-113.rochester.res.rr.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100tjbp(~tom@78.141.197.43) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100bollu(~bollu@139.59.46.74) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@unaffiliated/l29ah) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100forell(~forell@unaffiliated/forell) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Geekingfrog(~geekingfr@li2156-64.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Uma(~uma@umazalakain.info) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100stefan-_(~cri@42dots.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100jol_(~jol@jol.dev) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100nshepperd2(~nshepperd@li364-218.members.linode.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100kaletaa(~kaletaa@188.34.177.83) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100dminuoso(~dminuoso@unaffiliated/dminuoso) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ptrcmd(~ptrcmd@unaffiliated/petercommand) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100[df](~ben@51.15.198.140) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100janne(~janne@punainen.org) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100polux2001(~polux@51.15.169.172) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100e2(e2@sponsored.by.bnc4you.xyz) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100tdammers(~tdammers@unaffiliated/tdammers) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100heyj(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yqxyyzcpfebmhzqe) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100falsifian(~falsifian@exoco.falsifian.org) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Putonlalla(~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Xnuk(~xnuk@45.76.202.58) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100haveo(~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100divVerent(~divVerent@xonotic/core-team/divVerent) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100gargawel_(~gael@212.83.144.58) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100madnight(~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100chindy(~quassel@51.15.63.78) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Vq(~vq@90-227-195-41-no77.tbcn.telia.com) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100ahf(ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100bind(~bind@unaffiliated/bind) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100vodkaInf1rno(~wormphleg@104.131.156.184) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100gothos(~gothos@antsy.jhz.name) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100koluacik(~koluacik@134.122.28.77) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100Majiir(~Majiir@pool-96-237-149-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100tasuki(~tasuki@198.211.120.27) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:25 +0100afx237_(~afx237@107.170.10.178) (*.net *.split)
2021-03-09 04:59:26 +0100rkvrkvist
2021-03-09 04:59:26 +0100forell_forell
2021-03-09 04:59:26 +0100sujeet`sujeet
2021-03-09 04:59:26 +0100omnitrogen_omnitrogen
2021-03-09 04:59:27 +0100nshepperd27nshepperd2
2021-03-09 04:59:27 +0100bollu7bollu
2021-03-09 04:59:27 +0100haasn`haasn
2021-03-09 04:59:28 +0100[df]_(~ben@51.15.198.140)
2021-03-09 04:59:28 +0100ralu4ralu
2021-03-09 04:59:28 +0100polux20015polux2001
2021-03-09 04:59:29 +0100Katarushisu5Katarushisu
2021-03-09 04:59:30 +0100styledash9styledash
2021-03-09 04:59:31 +0100drewolson3drewolson
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2021-03-09 04:59:36 +0100[1]MrMobiusMrMobius
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2021-03-09 05:00:02 +0100stefan-_(~cri@42dots.de)
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2021-03-09 05:01:08 +0100L29Ah(~L29Ah@unaffiliated/l29ah)
2021-03-09 05:01:11 +0100chirpsalot(~Chirps@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-03-09 05:01:22 +0100andjjj23(~irc@107.170.228.47)
2021-03-09 05:01:23 +0100 <curiousgay> monochrom: well, I hope even with that I'll learn Haskell quickly, I'm interested in learning something new and unusual, i.e. declarative programming
2021-03-09 05:01:27 +0100mniip(mniip@freenode/staff/mniip)
2021-03-09 05:01:40 +0100amx(amx@percival.namespace.at)
2021-03-09 05:01:43 +0100Nikotiini(~ubuntu@ec2-52-213-118-142.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-03-09 05:01:44 +0100divVerent(~divVerent@xonotic/core-team/divVerent)
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2021-03-09 05:02:05 +0100tdammers(~tdammers@77.109.72.101.res.static.edpnet.net) (Changing host)
2021-03-09 05:02:05 +0100tdammers(~tdammers@unaffiliated/tdammers)
2021-03-09 05:02:08 +0100RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
2021-03-09 05:02:08 +0100marble_visions(~user@68.183.79.8)
2021-03-09 05:02:08 +0100 <monochrom> The Gentle Introduction to Haskell was how I learned quickly.
2021-03-09 05:02:13 +0100tv(~tv@unaffiliated/tv)
2021-03-09 05:02:17 +0100JokerAscensionEx(~egp_@2.95.74.168)
2021-03-09 05:02:21 +0100sdrodge(~sdrodge@unaffiliated/sdrodge)
2021-03-09 05:02:24 +0100_ashbreeze_(~mark@64.85.214.234.reverse.socket.net)
2021-03-09 05:02:28 +0100Putonlalla(~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi)
2021-03-09 05:02:34 +0100apoc(~apoc@49.12.13.193)
2021-03-09 05:02:35 +0100Jesin(~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-09 05:02:49 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2021-03-09 05:02:56 +0100 <monochrom> My http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/learn-sources.html has more of my recommendations or comments.
2021-03-09 05:03:03 +0100arahael(~arahael@121-44-10-207.tpgi.com.au)
2021-03-09 05:03:09 +0100xlei(znc@unaffiliated/xlei)
2021-03-09 05:03:14 +0100cgfbee(~bot@oc1.itim-cj.ro)
2021-03-09 05:03:32 +0100ahf(ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
2021-03-09 05:03:53 +0100 <monochrom> https://soupi.github.io/rfc/reading_simple_haskell/ could help if you just need a crash course for read-only.
2021-03-09 05:03:57 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: btw, there is "(if ... then ... else ...)-syntax in pattern" error in your example
2021-03-09 05:04:02 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.4) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-03-09 05:04:07 +0100kam1(~kam1@113.203.63.161)
2021-03-09 05:04:18 +0100 <curiousgay> I've downloaded the gentle introduction book
2021-03-09 05:05:12 +0100 <curiousgay> ah, never mind, it's just me ommiting "->"
2021-03-09 05:05:51 +0100mceier(~mceier@89-68-132-187.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-03-09 05:08:02 +0100meck(~meck@li1809-18.members.linode.com)
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2021-03-09 05:10:11 +0100 <Axman6> yeah lambdabot seems to disagree with that :P
2021-03-09 05:10:30 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27)
2021-03-09 05:10:31 +0100Ekho(~Ekho@unaffiliated/ekho)
2021-03-09 05:10:32 +0100nitrix_nitrix
2021-03-09 05:10:39 +0100so(~so@unaffiliated/so)
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2021-03-09 05:11:20 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 05:11:50 +0100 <curiousgay> monochrom: thanks, and I guess you mean the second link is about reading someone's code? well, I'm interested in writing own programs like servers, GUI apps, interactive command-line tools (communication with other programs included)
2021-03-09 05:12:21 +0100 <monochrom> Yes, reading Haskell syntax.
2021-03-09 05:16:16 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> I find haskell quite easy to read, most of the time
2021-03-09 05:16:21 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-09 05:16:55 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-09 05:17:10 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:a1fb:7cd0:d883:e836) ()
2021-03-09 05:17:18 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-03-09 05:18:04 +0100alp(~alp@163.172.83.213)
2021-03-09 05:18:24 +0100 <curiousgay> heck-to-the-gnom: well, it depends on style someone else uses, I've seen terrible code in different languages where authors really didn't know what they were doing
2021-03-09 05:19:04 +0100 <redmp> haskell is easy to read if 1) the author used qualified imports 2) the author used explicit import lists 3) i have already memorized the modules the author imports
2021-03-09 05:19:35 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-26.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-03-09 05:19:40 +0100 <redmp> if none of those are true, it's a pain becasue you need to figure out the types of all the bindings
2021-03-09 05:22:26 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-03-09 05:24:14 +0100jdt(~jdt@208.85.233.130) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 05:25:18 +0100Fuchs1(~Fuchs@217.146.82.202)
2021-03-09 05:25:26 +0100 <curiousgay> hm, I see binaries built by GHC use C runtime
2021-03-09 05:26:11 +0100 <curiousgay> in Go binding to C breaks performance, stability, correctness, garbage collection, concurrency and cross-compilation
2021-03-09 05:27:28 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: you're referring to the use of the foreign-function interface in go
2021-03-09 05:27:43 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: there are similar problems when using the foreign-function interface to C in haskell
2021-03-09 05:28:15 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: the runtime system (RTS) used by GHC binaries doesn't have these problems; it's built into the language and enables all of the high level features of haskell
2021-03-09 05:28:30 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: including software transactional memory and green threads
2021-03-09 05:28:51 +0100 <monochrom> Sounds like Go is a jealous god.
2021-03-09 05:29:17 +0100jdt(~jdt@208.85.233.130)
2021-03-09 05:29:38 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.35.53) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-03-09 05:30:01 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.35.53)
2021-03-09 05:31:17 +0100 <curiousgay> redmp: that's unusual, because pure Go binaries don't link to any C library, while pure GHC binaries link to libc, libm, libgmp, librt, libdl, libffi, libnuma and libpthead
2021-03-09 05:31:56 +0100 <monochrom> What is unusual about that?
2021-03-09 05:31:58 +0100 <curiousgay> Go is completely self-contained unless some exotic operating systems force it to use C ABIs
2021-03-09 05:32:33 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: yes, go is completely self-contained. haskell's RTS is written in C. there's nothing unusual here.. just different design choices
2021-03-09 05:32:46 +0100 <curiousgay> ok
2021-03-09 05:33:06 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: there are variations on the way to compile haskell; i think you can get 100% static musl based binaries, but i haven't looked into that
2021-03-09 05:33:33 +0100curiousgayruns void linux with glibc
2021-03-09 05:34:22 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: you can always use `runhaskell` ;)
2021-03-09 05:34:49 +0100 <spidr> oh what
2021-03-09 05:35:01 +0100 <monochrom> runhaskell is just runghc
2021-03-09 05:35:10 +0100 <spidr> could I use runhaskell with fastcgiwrapper
2021-03-09 05:35:23 +0100 <spidr> to run myfile.hs in /cgi-bin/
2021-03-09 05:35:47 +0100 <monochrom> Yes.
2021-03-09 05:36:14 +0100 <curiousgay> I'm surprised that the only binary stack doesn't install in PATH is GHC itself
2021-03-09 05:37:54 +0100 <curiousgay> so I'm just thinking of "stack ghc" as "go build" :D
2021-03-09 05:38:27 +0100 <monochrom> Isn't "stack build" even closer? better?
2021-03-09 05:39:42 +0100 <curiousgay> I didn't read documentation on "stack build" command because it was mentioned in creating packages
2021-03-09 05:39:49 +0100 <redmp> spidr: runhaskell/runghc might need help finding your dependencies if they're outside of `ghc-pkg list` which is usually only the stdlib packages
2021-03-09 05:40:07 +0100 <curiousgay> so I decided to skip that part until I'm ready to create packages
2021-03-09 05:40:11 +0100 <redmp> spidr: also runhaskell/runghc will be slower than compiling things, but that might be ok depending on what you're doing
2021-03-09 05:40:20 +0100 <redmp> *slower than binaries
2021-03-09 05:40:47 +0100 <curiousgay> you mean they run ghci?
2021-03-09 05:41:32 +0100 <monochrom> basically yes, if you understand it to be "runghc = ghci - the interactive prompt"
2021-03-09 05:41:37 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: stack build and cabal build are like go build .. they make your libs into shared libs or your executables into a binary
2021-03-09 05:42:23 +0100 <monochrom> The speed of interpretation without the hinderance of UI.
2021-03-09 05:42:39 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.204.248)
2021-03-09 05:43:13 +0100 <curiousgay> redmp: you mean they don't require setting up yaml file and simply accept single .hs file as an argument?
2021-03-09 05:44:36 +0100augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:5bdd:b325:740e:cfd8) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-09 05:45:20 +0100 <spidr> redmp: im only learning, it would likely playing with base
2021-03-09 05:46:12 +0100 <redmp> spidr: then you should be good! runhaskell is great for learning and for not worrying about package formats
2021-03-09 05:46:38 +0100 <spidr> I need a project or something to actually write for practice
2021-03-09 05:46:48 +0100 <spidr> maybe I'll look at project euler
2021-03-09 05:46:58 +0100 <redmp> curiousgay: yes
2021-03-09 05:47:31 +0100 <curiousgay> thanks
2021-03-09 05:50:02 +0100 <redmp> spidr: the recent advent of code was also fun, i hear
2021-03-09 05:50:18 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
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2021-03-09 05:59:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-09 06:01:01 +0100pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-03-09 06:02:26 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:04:48 +0100 <Axman6> curiousgay: I think the fact that go doesn't link to anything is more a reflection on Go's deep NIH syndrome than Haskell's strangeness
2021-03-09 06:05:21 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-03-09 06:06:33 +0100tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 06:06:37 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-26.static.apol.com.tw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 06:06:53 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-84.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-03-09 06:07:02 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252)
2021-03-09 06:09:16 +0100Guest47409(~micro@a9.lence.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-09 06:09:30 +0100micro(~micro@unaffiliated/micro)
2021-03-09 06:11:13 +0100 <spidr> thanks
2021-03-09 06:11:30 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: I think Go not linking to anything allows easy cross-compilation, if you write Go program on linux you can cross-compile it to windows, macos, freebsd, plan 9, wasm and others by just setting GOOS and GOARCH environment variables
2021-03-09 06:12:06 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-03-09 06:12:08 +0100 <Axman6> sure, it also means needing a team of people who can maintain that, and we don't have that luxury
2021-03-09 06:12:09 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-84.static.apol.com.tw) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:12:14 +0100 <curiousgay> Go compiler is written in Go, Go runtime is written in Go, Go standard library is written in Go (with few exceptions like DNS resolver in net package)
2021-03-09 06:12:53 +0100 <curiousgay> and Go has its own assembler
2021-03-09 06:14:09 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: I think the not fair part about Go to Haskell is Ken Thompson :)
2021-03-09 06:14:17 +0100 <Axman6> the GHC RTS is quite a small amount of C, mostly responsible for allocations/GC, resource management through threads/sparks and interraction with the OS. We don';t want our GHC devs wasting their time maintaining essentially their own libc for each OS they target if we can have them doing useful work
2021-03-09 06:15:16 +0100supercoven_(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-09 06:15:50 +0100 <Axman6> there's no particularly good reason why we couldn't get rid of C from the OS, but it's not worth the effort
2021-03-09 06:15:56 +0100 <curiousgay> that's fine, languages and their ecosystems are different, that's why they both are fun to learn
2021-03-09 06:16:10 +0100elliott_1(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:16:57 +0100 <curiousgay> it's not even possible to get rid of C on windows, macos, solaris, openbsd and ios (and maybe android?)
2021-03-09 06:17:19 +0100 <Axman6> sure it is, if you're happy to write assembly
2021-03-09 06:17:30 +0100 <curiousgay> so Go bends to their rules while staying uncompromised on other OSes
2021-03-09 06:18:10 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: writing assembly won't help because syscalls are forced through C library by operating system kernel, that means even assembly code must link to libc to do syscalls
2021-03-09 06:18:24 +0100supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:18:44 +0100 <Axman6> really? you can't just use an int instruction?
2021-03-09 06:18:50 +0100 <curiousgay> no
2021-03-09 06:19:12 +0100 <curiousgay> err, wait, you can
2021-03-09 06:19:30 +0100 <curiousgay> but you can make syscalls only through libc on exotic operating systems
2021-03-09 06:20:23 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/36435
2021-03-09 06:21:40 +0100 <curiousgay> but at least openbsd allows them from static binaries
2021-03-09 06:21:45 +0100 <Axman6> If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose to continue using OpenBSD and not Go :)
2021-03-09 06:22:28 +0100 <curiousgay> you use openbsd???
2021-03-09 06:22:56 +0100 <Axman6> yes, for my router. FreeBSD for the server this IRC client is running on, and macOS for for getting work done
2021-03-09 06:23:08 +0100 <curiousgay> you don't want to know who I am :)
2021-03-09 06:23:10 +0100 <jacks2> what libraries are recommended these days for writing a webserver in haskell?
2021-03-09 06:23:13 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc2c:a791:ab0d:f870)
2021-03-09 06:23:39 +0100 <spidr> I am also interested, want to try writing an api in haskell
2021-03-09 06:23:40 +0100 <redmp> jacks2: servant, servant-server
2021-03-09 06:23:46 +0100 <redmp> jacks2: warp
2021-03-09 06:23:50 +0100 <Axman6> jacks2: I'm a huge fan of Servant (enough so that the main author said It was their best advertising at somepoint)
2021-03-09 06:24:19 +0100 <monochrom> Classic Mac used Pascal.
2021-03-09 06:25:00 +0100 <jacks2> thanks. I used scotty in the past. are these better?
2021-03-09 06:25:04 +0100 <redmp> spidr: jacks2: https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/tutorial/index.html
2021-03-09 06:25:06 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: anyway, as a former desktop user of openbsd I think it's reasonable to use it for router (because I don't understand any firewall besides pf), but I won't use it for any other stuff anymore
2021-03-09 06:25:07 +0100 <Axman6> Servant isn't exactly the most beginniner friendly, as it uses a lot of advanced type system features that can be hard to deciphjer the compile errors of if you aren't familliar with it. but if you are happy with those features it's fantastically descriptive and builds a lot for you straight from the types
2021-03-09 06:25:15 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-03-09 06:25:21 +0100 <redmp> jacks2: servant lets you write a type to define your endpoints
2021-03-09 06:25:41 +0100 <curiousgay> and it's not only about Go, it's about many other decisions openbsd makes
2021-03-09 06:25:50 +0100 <Axman6> monochrom: back in the cooperative multitasking days - MacOS was so much fun back then. OS 9 was such a nice change
2021-03-09 06:26:10 +0100 <redmp> jacks2: and after writing your API type you can extract a server (a wai application to use with warp server) or a client (provided by servant-client
2021-03-09 06:27:31 +0100 <monochrom> Coincidence or plagiarism? 1. Classic MacOS used Pascal, Windows used and still uses the Pascal calling convention. 2. Classic MacOS used cooperative multitasking, so did Win16.
2021-03-09 06:29:39 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:30:31 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc2c:a791:ab0d:f870) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-09 06:32:32 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc2c:a791:ab0d:f870)
2021-03-09 06:32:39 +0100 <Axman6> curiousgay: pf is the main reason for me to use it, but I also like how east it is to administer, and it's getting eacier with each release. one of the places where NIH is done well =)
2021-03-09 06:32:48 +0100vonfry(~user@116.236.75.207)
2021-03-09 06:33:19 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc2c:a791:ab0d:f870) (Client Quit)
2021-03-09 06:34:09 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:37:07 +0100 <Axman6> one day, I swear, I will learn to type
2021-03-09 06:37:14 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:3d29:8370:5f36:8c65) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:37:33 +0100raym(~ray@45.64.220.113)
2021-03-09 06:37:36 +0100 <Axman6> but today is not that day. Thank the lord for GHC's help with the other typing
2021-03-09 06:41:22 +0100 <curiousgay> Axman6: fortunately being hard to administer is no longer my 70% of time pain point in linux, I just install void linux using basic commands and ed and get on with my life :)
2021-03-09 06:42:29 +0100 <curiousgay> as a former contributor to openbsd ports and ravenports, I find contributing to void packages extremely easy, that is also important for me, I'm productive and don't waste much time on writing how to package a specific program or library
2021-03-09 06:43:33 +0100tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-03-09 06:45:47 +0100 <curiousgay> honestly the only pain point about linux for me right now is that I can't get my webcam microphone working while in any bsd it just works, linux has this problem from the beginning (over 6 years passed)
2021-03-09 06:47:58 +0100tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 06:48:42 +0100 <Axman6> jacks2: IMO yes, Servamt is better, because it allows you to make the compiler check much more of your program. Scotty is much more string based, with Servant you just say that an argument to a handler comes from a capture in the URL of a certain type and you know that's the type you'll get. With Scotty you get a string and have to parse it in your code, which just feels barbaric :)
2021-03-09 06:49:50 +0100Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 06:51:08 +0100Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-03-09 06:53:23 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-03-09 06:55:57 +0100 <jacks2> Axman6, interesting! I'll give it a try
2021-03-09 06:59:39 +0100 <Axman6> jacks2: this looks like a decent introduction to it: https://mmhaskell.com/real-world/servant
2021-03-09 06:59:52 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:fc2c:a791:ab0d:f870)
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2021-03-09 07:08:19 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 07:08:42 +0100 <jacks2> thanks!
2021-03-09 07:09:21 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161)
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2021-03-09 07:10:52 +0100 <Axman6> jacks2: this is also relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/lqb6q2/servant_resources/
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2021-03-09 07:16:07 +0100 <curiousgay> monochrom: btw, even without previous experience with functional programming (the only declarative programming I've done before was writing makefiles), maybe it's just my flexible brain, but Haskell already feels familiar to me
2021-03-09 07:16:50 +0100 <curiousgay> not so familiar I could write a serious program of course, I mean it's just becomes intuitive
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2021-03-09 08:21:41 +0100 <kayvan> hello. help with servant queryParam plz? How do I make sure the right parameter is supplied?
2021-03-09 08:22:25 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-03-09 08:23:57 +0100 <Lycurgus> there's a servant channel
2021-03-09 08:24:17 +0100 <Lycurgus> #haskell-servant iirc
2021-03-09 08:25:17 +0100 <Lycurgus> also try a lil due diligence
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2021-03-09 08:56:58 +0100 <tolt> kayvan: there's some good examples at https://docs.servant.dev/en/stable/tutorial/ApiType.html , not sure specifically what you are asking for but generally you can add `QueryParam "paramName" a` where a has an instance of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-0.18.2/docs/Servant-API.html#t:ToHttpApiData
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2021-03-09 09:07:01 +0100 <edwardk> what ghc release included record pattern synonyms?
2021-03-09 09:07:09 +0100 <edwardk> its basically ungoogleable from what i can tell
2021-03-09 09:07:23 +0100wimpunk(~wimpunk@195.140.213.38)
2021-03-09 09:07:44 +0100 <opqdonut> https://mpickering.github.io/posts/2015-12-12-pattern-synonyms-8.html
2021-03-09 09:07:54 +0100 <opqdonut> that's the first hit when I google "record pattern synonyms" :)
2021-03-09 09:08:06 +0100 <edwardk> interesting. they were there all along?
2021-03-09 09:08:08 +0100 <edwardk> hmm
2021-03-09 09:09:45 +0100 <edwardk> on 8.0.2 i enter that syntax but i get a regular pattern and no field accessors
2021-03-09 09:09:58 +0100Athas_Athas
2021-03-09 09:10:09 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 09:10:19 +0100 <edwardk> but in 8.10 it works
2021-03-09 09:10:24 +0100 <edwardk> so i guess i need to bisect
2021-03-09 09:10:57 +0100dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@ptr-eitgbj2w0uu6delkbrh.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-03-09 09:11:33 +0100 <edwardk> moving Control.Monad.Representable.State into distributive for the v1 release, and want to include pattern synonyms to make it feel like regular state, but then i really want runStateT to be a field accessor in a record pattern synonym if possible
2021-03-09 09:12:31 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-03-09 09:13:50 +0100aggin(~ecm@103.88.87.55)
2021-03-09 09:15:20 +0100 <edwardk> ok 8.2 fixed the record thing
2021-03-09 09:15:28 +0100 <edwardk> so if i want to support 8.0 as well, i'll need CPP
2021-03-09 09:15:42 +0100CodeAlways(uid272474@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwrstjeuktuytxyi)
2021-03-09 09:17:35 +0100mawk`mawk
2021-03-09 09:18:19 +0100 <charukiewicz> Does anyone know why wai dropped support for FastCGI? Looks like there's a wai-handler-fastcgi package on Hackage but it was dropped from the yesodweb/wai monorepo. wai-extra still has support for CGI/SCGI.
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2021-03-09 10:11:23 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@195.94.236.178) ()
2021-03-09 10:17:46 +0100lupulo(~lupulo@163.117.64.56)
2021-03-09 10:17:48 +0100 <lupulo> hi
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2021-03-09 10:26:49 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
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2021-03-09 10:33:52 +0100Aphex(uid70120@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpzuytfykqmswndg)
2021-03-09 10:35:50 +0100 <teddyc> lupulo: hi
2021-03-09 10:36:07 +0100mayleesia(4d0db16a@dynamic-077-013-177-106.77.13.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-09 10:36:11 +0100kawzeg(kawzeg@2a01:7e01::f03c:92ff:fee2:ec34) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2021-03-09 10:36:12 +0100 <arahael> I've got a Value I want to get the string out of, what's the best way to do this? I'm currently doing: case v of (String v) -> v
2021-03-09 10:36:26 +0100 <arahael> (Value is from Aeson)
2021-03-09 10:36:44 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.118.68)
2021-03-09 10:36:49 +0100arrowsvc_(~arr@2.93.163.35) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-09 10:37:08 +0100 <arahael> charukiewicz: I don'tknow, but look to see if that coincided with support for web sockets.
2021-03-09 10:39:10 +0100tms_(thomaav@cassarossa.samfundet.no)
2021-03-09 10:39:19 +0100 <maerwald> arahael: what type does that function have
2021-03-09 10:39:38 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: Value -> Text, I would expect.
2021-03-09 10:40:19 +0100 <maerwald> what happens if it's not String?
2021-03-09 10:40:38 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: Then the data is invalid.
2021-03-09 10:40:46 +0100 <maerwald> so you crash?
2021-03-09 10:40:57 +0100 <arahael> Yep, that sounds about right.
2021-03-09 10:41:44 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 10:41:52 +0100 <maerwald> then: `(\String s -> s) <$> value` sounds about right
2021-03-09 10:42:32 +0100 <arahael> Oh, is that the new lambda-pattern thing?
2021-03-09 10:42:41 +0100 <__monty__> No.
2021-03-09 10:42:44 +0100 <arahael> (Oh, no, that's _regular_ patterns, Neat.)
2021-03-09 10:42:44 +0100 <maerwald> s/<$>/$/
2021-03-09 10:43:17 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: As an extension, I'm looking for a way that doesn't fail. :) The larger context is that I'm using this within parseJSON, implementing FromJSON.
2021-03-09 10:43:54 +0100 <__monty__> arahael: And what do you want to do in the case where the value isn't a String?
2021-03-09 10:43:59 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: Which returns a `Parser a`, so I'm thinking that a more appropriate function is probably `Value -> Parser a`
2021-03-09 10:44:12 +0100 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-1.5.6.0/docs/Data-Aeson.html#v:withText
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2021-03-09 10:45:00 +0100 <arahael> maerwald: That's very nicely descriptive. Thanks.
2021-03-09 10:46:32 +0100leah2(~leah@vuxu.org)
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2021-03-09 10:48:13 +0100 <arahael> Yes, much better. withText "MyType" f (v ! "tag") where f tag = case tag of ...
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2021-03-09 11:33:20 +0100 <arahael> Hmm. I think I want to know how to search for docs better. I'm still essentially relying on Google. :(
2021-03-09 11:33:50 +0100cods(~fred@82-65-232-44.subs.proxad.net) (Changing host)
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2021-03-09 11:33:57 +0100 <arahael> I basically rely on either Google, or Hoogle, depending on the nature of the search.
2021-03-09 11:36:35 +0100 <__monty__> If I want docs I usually just use hackage.
2021-03-09 11:38:45 +0100 <arahael> __monty__: Yes, that's where I usually end up.
2021-03-09 11:39:03 +0100 <arahael> I guess what i'm after is a _convenient_ local hackage.
2021-03-09 11:39:30 +0100 <__monty__> I mean I skip the search engine. Just use a keyword search bookmark for hackage.
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2021-03-09 11:41:24 +0100DTZUZO(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
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2021-03-09 11:43:04 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
2021-03-09 11:43:41 +0100 <arahael> Fair enough. Just would be nifty to have a faster search at times.
2021-03-09 11:48:06 +0100 <__monty__> I do run a local hoogle instance.
2021-03-09 11:48:20 +0100 <__monty__> But that only covers packages I'm already using in my projects.
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2021-03-09 11:55:10 +0100 <arahael> I'm currently attempting to do a 'cabal haddock', but it seems it doesn't work in the nix shell, attempting to figure out how on earth to enable it.
2021-03-09 12:01:06 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:246b:c0a0:2c4b:51c3)
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2021-03-09 12:01:18 +0100 <arahael> It's getting late, anyway. I'll figure it out another day. I realise it's typical to provide the error messag,e but the only error message is the cryptic "TargetDisabledByUser".
2021-03-09 12:01:27 +0100DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
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2021-03-09 12:02:34 +0100 <__monty__> arahael: I'm not sure that's what you want anyway. Afaik it just builds the docs for the current project.
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2021-03-09 12:03:19 +0100 <arahael> And it's dependencies, hopefully?
2021-03-09 12:03:41 +0100 <arahael> It's the first thing on https://github.com/ndmitchell/hoogle/blob/master/docs/Install.md
2021-03-09 12:04:30 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-03-09 12:04:54 +0100 <__monty__> But if you're using nix you can just use ghcWithHoogle.
2021-03-09 12:05:09 +0100 <__monty__> And it's similarly easy if you use haskell.nix instead.
2021-03-09 12:05:16 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Client Quit)
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2021-03-09 12:06:55 +0100 <arahael> Hmm, let me see if I can find some docs for that.
2021-03-09 12:07:09 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 12:07:59 +0100 <arahael> This looks promising - thanks for the 'ghcWithHoogle' keyword: https://www.haskellforall.com/2018/10/detailed-walkthrough-for-beginner.html
2021-03-09 12:08:06 +0100 <arahael> I'll read that tomorrow. :)
2021-03-09 12:08:09 +0100robotmay(~beepboop@2001:8b0:7af0:2580:2ddc:ec22:b220:a191) (Quit: Be excellent to each other)
2021-03-09 12:08:15 +0100 <arahael> As for haskell.nix, where's that?
2021-03-09 12:08:55 +0100 <__monty__> You really just want to read this for nix's haskell infra, https://haskell4nix.readthedocs.io/
2021-03-09 12:09:07 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252) (Quit: http://www.okay.uz/ (Session timeout))
2021-03-09 12:09:17 +0100 <__monty__> And here's the docs for haskell.nix, https://input-output-hk.github.io/haskell.nix/
2021-03-09 12:09:59 +0100 <__monty__> It's much nicer to work with from a dev POV imo. Not the shallowest learning curve though.
2021-03-09 12:10:05 +0100gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 12:10:14 +0100 <arahael> I'll give those a read as well. :) And yeah, the learning curve is freaking vertical when it comes to nix.
2021-03-09 12:10:24 +0100m2rrorbird(~dwsjeid91@185.204.1.223)
2021-03-09 12:11:12 +0100mirrorb2rd(~dwsjeid91@185.244.214.60)
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2021-03-09 12:13:35 +0100 <arahael> I guess I'm just using a standard 'cabal' setup within nix at the moment, the only thing in haskellPackages is cabal-install itself.
2021-03-09 12:13:45 +0100 <__monty__> arahael: That first link is the documentation that used to be part of the nixpkgs manual btw. Doesn't get more official than that.
2021-03-09 12:13:58 +0100mirrorbird(dwsjeid911@gateway/vpn/mullvad/dwsjeid911) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-09 12:14:11 +0100 <arahael> Thanks for that. :) I wonder why it was taken out.
2021-03-09 12:14:16 +0100mirrorbird(dwsjeid911@gateway/vpn/mullvad/dwsjeid911)
2021-03-09 12:15:33 +0100m2rrorbird(~dwsjeid91@185.204.1.223) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-09 12:17:51 +0100 <arahael> I wonder why we're supposed to use ghcWithPackages instead of simply letting cabal deal with it?
2021-03-09 12:19:09 +0100robotmay(~beepboop@2001:8b0:7af0:2580:2c2a:5a7f:e21d:de48)
2021-03-09 12:19:50 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-09 12:22:53 +0100 <arahael> Well, I'll look tomrorow. :) G'night :)
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2021-03-09 14:33:49 +0100 <mananamenos> Hi, Im quite lost thinking about IO and exceptions. So I can have an IO function about which I can be completely sure that it will not throw and therefore will not crash the later execution, right? For example, `f = return 1 :: IO Int`. However, another function with the same `IO Int` type could be like this `g = throwIO (toException "whatever")`. So when I call the first function from some parent IO function, I know it
2021-03-09 14:33:49 +0100 <mananamenos> will not crash, however, when I call the second one, it could throw, and I can only know that if I look at the implementation of it. It seems I don't get some fundamental concept here..
2021-03-09 14:34:58 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 14:35:01 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Isn't it the same the exception mechanism for all other languages?
2021-03-09 14:35:27 +0100Lycurgusguesses no
2021-03-09 14:40:41 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:59e2:d541:9d2d:e1e4) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-09 14:41:06 +0100 <nshepperd> most languages rely on you to read documentation or implementation to figure out what exceptions a procedure might throw
2021-03-09 14:41:36 +0100 <geekosaur> exceptions don't show in types. this can be regarded as a wart, but even (return 1) can potentially throw a heap exception
2021-03-09 14:42:41 +0100 <geekosaur> synchronous exceptions being exceptions instead of ExceptT is a wart, but a hard one to fix. that said, the throwIO example doesn't really fit that unless you split throwIO into sync and async variants
2021-03-09 14:42:50 +0100 <Lycurgus> yeah, if you look at the computer as an object from the outside, but you said the langs
2021-03-09 14:43:00 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-09 14:43:18 +0100 <mananamenos> geekosaur, I was thinking about something like you say * but even (return 1) can potentially throw a heap exception *. You have confirmed me that, so it makes sense now. Thank you!
2021-03-09 14:44:32 +0100 <mananamenos> what is a wart btw? :)
2021-03-09 14:44:58 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: You cannot have an IO exception where you can be sure it doesn't throw (unless you inspect all code involved), no
2021-03-09 14:45:01 +0100 <merijn> Sadly
2021-03-09 14:45:47 +0100 <geekosaur> less severe than a bug
2021-03-09 14:45:56 +0100 <Lycurgus> wart: blows up on a simple task stupid langs handle with ease
2021-03-09 14:46:00 +0100 <geekosaur> an infelicity
2021-03-09 14:46:27 +0100astroanax(astroanax@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-mwsymdmfxopxcrbb) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 14:46:53 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: warts are ugly/uncomfortable/unpleasant things :p
2021-03-09 14:48:09 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: Technically, a wart is a kind of skin infection that has all those attributes
2021-03-09 14:48:13 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2021-03-09 14:48:17 +0100 <mananamenos> :)
2021-03-09 14:48:29 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-03-09 14:48:31 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Client Quit)
2021-03-09 14:48:47 +0100 <mananamenos> merijn, yeah, I skin thing came to me in google search, that's why I asked
2021-03-09 14:48:50 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-09 14:48:52 +0100 <mananamenos> Could you expand more about why: * synchronous exceptions being exceptions instead of ExceptT is a wart, but a hard one to fix *?
2021-03-09 14:49:00 +0100mirrorbird(dwsjeid911@gateway/vpn/mullvad/dwsjeid911) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 14:49:16 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: In Haskell exceptions (in the throw/throwIO sense) are treated as bottoms (non-termination, infinite recursion, etc.)
2021-03-09 14:50:05 +0100 <nshepperd> frequently, warts are also harder to fix than bugs. if you have a bug on your skin you just shake it off :p
2021-03-09 14:50:05 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: I disagree with "exceptions should be ExceptT", tbh. That's a highly contentious and non-universal statemen by geekosaur
2021-03-09 14:50:31 +0100 <mananamenos> xD
2021-03-09 14:50:32 +0100 <merijn> unchecked exceptions are a mistake, but "ExceptT" is not the solution, imo
2021-03-09 14:50:55 +0100 <geekosaur> what Haskell calls synchronous exceptions are out of band returns, not exceptions
2021-03-09 14:51:29 +0100 <merijn> geekosaur: *Haskell* doesn't specify any form of exceptions, to my knowledge
2021-03-09 14:51:29 +0100 <nshepperd> isn't that what exceptions are
2021-03-09 14:51:41 +0100 <geekosaur> not in Haskell, in Haskell they're bottoms
2021-03-09 14:51:49 +0100 <merijn> And, tbh, I don't even know for sure what you refer to by "synchronous exceptions"
2021-03-09 14:51:59 +0100 <geekosaur> this isn't really a bottom, it's the kind of thing ExceptT is designed for
2021-03-09 14:52:31 +0100 <merijn> geekosaur: ExceptT is a poor fit for many, if not most, exceptions of the Control.Exception variety
2021-03-09 14:52:45 +0100 <nshepperd> that seems like mixing up the cart and the horse
2021-03-09 14:53:21 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 14:53:25 +0100 <nshepperd> are exceptions bottoms or are bottoms exceptions?
2021-03-09 14:53:26 +0100 <merijn> geekosaur: Unless you are going to argue in favour of "div :: Int -> Int -> ExcepT ArithException m Int"
2021-03-09 14:53:47 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: Exceptions are bottoms
2021-03-09 14:53:52 +0100astroanax(astroanax@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-nisypfklzoewoaqi)
2021-03-09 14:53:58 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: Currently, anyway
2021-03-09 14:54:13 +0100 <merijn> They don't *have* to be, but that's how they're modelled in Haskell now
2021-03-09 14:54:37 +0100 <nshepperd> are you sure it's not bottoms that are modelled as exceptions
2021-03-09 14:54:48 +0100 <Taneb> > let f :: Integer -> Bool; f x = x `seq` f (x + 1) in f 0
2021-03-09 14:54:54 +0100 <Taneb> This is a bottom that is not an exception
2021-03-09 14:54:54 +0100 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2021-03-09 14:55:19 +0100raym(~ray@45.64.220.113) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-09 14:55:41 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: That doesn't make sense
2021-03-09 14:55:50 +0100ddellaco_(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 14:56:08 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: bottom is the mathematical name for "non-termination" in the evaluation of lambda terms
2021-03-09 14:56:18 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-09 14:56:23 +0100 <merijn> So, infinite loops, crashes, etc.
2021-03-09 14:56:52 +0100 <merijn> For the purpose of "what are the semantics of evaluating Haskell expressions", "throw" is a bottom
2021-03-09 14:57:07 +0100 <merijn> Evaluation of the expression does not terminate
2021-03-09 14:57:22 +0100 <merijn> It crashes/bails out/etc., however you'd like to call it
2021-03-09 14:57:52 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: You can't "model bottoms as exceptions", because at the meta-level (where you can talk about bottom) exceptions don't exist
2021-03-09 14:59:00 +0100 <nshepperd> my question is really why this alleged fact means that 'exceptions' can't also be 'out of band returns' just because some exceptions are also bottoms
2021-03-09 14:59:06 +0100mirrorbird(dwsjeid911@gateway/vpn/mullvad/dwsjeid911)
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2021-03-09 14:59:59 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: It depends on how you define "exception" and how you model that definition in the language
2021-03-09 15:00:32 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: The definition of exception that is currently implemented in GHC says "exceptions are bottoms"
2021-03-09 15:01:00 +0100 <merijn> Whether exceptions *have* to be bottoms depends on both how you define "exception" and the language you're working in
2021-03-09 15:01:50 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: If you want a definition of "non-bottom exceptions", you'll have to define it first and tell people what it is, because people are obviously going to default to "the definition that is actually implemented"
2021-03-09 15:02:20 +0100maop(~maop@37.120.211.188)
2021-03-09 15:03:29 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: "just because some exceptions are also bottoms" <- in GHC *all* exceptions are, by definition, bottoms
2021-03-09 15:03:45 +0100 <mananamenos> merijn, why is ExceptT a poor fit for many, if not most, exceptions of the Control.Exception?
2021-03-09 15:04:14 +0100Psybur(~user@unaffiliated/psybur) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 15:04:43 +0100 <nshepperd> merijn: so is throwIO a
2021-03-09 15:04:54 +0100 <nshepperd> bottom or a non exception?
2021-03-09 15:05:02 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-09 15:05:25 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: A lot of the exception from Control.Exception are things that "shouldn't happen", and the only sensible way to handle them is to rollback a ton of stuff
2021-03-09 15:05:28 +0100 <merijn> nshepperd: It's a bottom
2021-03-09 15:06:10 +0100mayleesia(4d0db16a@dynamic-077-013-177-106.77.13.pool.telefonica.de) (Quit: mayleesia)
2021-03-09 15:06:31 +0100 <nshepperd> geekasaur seems to disagree
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2021-03-09 15:07:57 +0100MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-03-09 15:08:03 +0100 <mananamenos> merijn, could you give a simple example? I don't understand * "shouldn't happen" * part
2021-03-09 15:08:37 +0100MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru)
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2021-03-09 15:18:51 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-09 15:20:06 +0100 <bor0> Wondering how/if lazy evaluation kicks in for https://paste.tomsmeding.com/8LQ6BNXP. For example, let's assume that generateCombinations l1 l2 produces a very large list. does `getPage (generateCombinations l1 l2) 200 20` only calculate those specific results (page 200, length 20) or does it actually calculate all of them?
2021-03-09 15:21:46 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
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2021-03-09 15:26:24 +0100 <geekosaur> my primary contention is that things like "file not found" are synchronous and should not be modeled as bottoms. and yes, I'd argue div fits into the same category although a convenience function that converts it to a bottom could be provided
2021-03-09 15:29:04 +0100 <geekosaur> in fact most of the "exceptions" openFile can produce are synchronous and should be dealt with via ExceptT. the actual async exceptions can happen later when the resulting Handle is read from, although even there there might be synchronous read ops (that's a harder case to argue)
2021-03-09 15:30:30 +0100mouseghost(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2021-03-09 15:30:38 +0100 <maerwald> ExceptT? :>
2021-03-09 15:32:41 +0100 <lyxia> bor0: only those results
2021-03-09 15:33:28 +0100 <bor0> lyxia, thanks, that's what my experiment showed but I wanted to confirm. This is magical. I had to do similar implementation in PHP (language without lazy evaluation) and the amount of manual work I had to do is ... calculate all those indices manually, do slicing of arrays, ugh
2021-03-09 15:33:37 +0100 <lyxia> > drop 10 [if i == 0 then undefined else (i, j) | i <- [0,1], j <- [0..9]]
2021-03-09 15:33:39 +0100 <lambdabot> [(1,0),(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(1,4),(1,5),(1,6),(1,7),(1,8),(1,9)]
2021-03-09 15:33:54 +0100 <nshepperd> what does "file not found should not be a bottom" actually mean specifically? is there something wrong with the throw/catch IO api?
2021-03-09 15:34:02 +0100 <nshepperd> you want checked exceptions?
2021-03-09 15:35:24 +0100hyperisco(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net)
2021-03-09 15:35:26 +0100kam1(~kam1@83.123.154.198)
2021-03-09 15:35:31 +0100 <bor0> ah, didn't think of trying undefined. I just tried it on two lists that'd produce over a million results
2021-03-09 15:35:38 +0100 <bor0> Thanks!
2021-03-09 15:36:55 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.7)
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2021-03-09 15:40:39 +0100 <geekosaur> catch is kinda lousy, yeah. especially how I need ScopedTypeVariables plus a type annotation to limit it to, say, IOExceptions.
2021-03-09 15:41:40 +0100 <merijn> geekosaur: I want checked exceptions that are not Except/Either
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2021-03-09 15:41:46 +0100 <geekosaur> the way things can leak if I get laziness wrong is also bad
2021-03-09 15:42:25 +0100 <maerwald> merijn: is it really checked exceptions if it's the responsibility of a library author to create them? I'd say: no
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2021-03-09 15:48:22 +0100 <merijn> maerwald: huh?
2021-03-09 15:50:37 +0100 <merijn> maerwald: I don't see how this relates to what I said?
2021-03-09 15:50:42 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqscfhvgecjdxrxn)
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2021-03-09 15:51:29 +0100 <nshepperd> if you don't want checked exceptions you could use ExceptT SomeException but that's just IO but inefficient
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2021-03-09 17:08:11 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-03-09 17:08:47 +0100FortuneZero(3223b878@50.35.184.120)
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2021-03-09 17:13:44 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-09 17:14:46 +0100 <Gurkenglas> Would you say that Haskell theoretically has unit_or :: () -> () -> (), which maps (bottom, bottom) to bottom and all else to ()?
2021-03-09 17:18:02 +0100 <dolio> No.
2021-03-09 17:18:31 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 17:18:55 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-09 17:19:33 +0100 <FortuneZero> unit_or () () = () -- yes?
2021-03-09 17:19:42 +0100 <FortuneZero> unit_or _ _ = () -- no
2021-03-09 17:20:17 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
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2021-03-09 17:23:01 +0100 <Gurkenglas> FortuneZero, unit_or () () = (); unit_or () undefined = (); unit_or undefined () = (); unit_or undefined undefined = undefined. Except you can't write it like that, because you're not supposed to be able to directly check for undefined, and besides it would check the cases in order. But when undefined means infinite loop, you can say "calculate both arguments in parallel and return () when one finishes", but I was wondering whether that's
2021-03-09 17:23:01 +0100 <Gurkenglas> theoretically cheating.
2021-03-09 17:25:37 +0100 <dolio> There are packages that use low level GHC primitives to make it.
2021-03-09 17:27:34 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-09 17:27:45 +0100 <dolio> The primitives make no guarantee that it works, though, I think.
2021-03-09 17:28:37 +0100 <dolio> Even in GHC, probably.
2021-03-09 17:29:58 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2021-03-09 17:40:50 +0100Fractalis(~Fractalis@2601:987:280:fb20:ad9b:b2c6:b33d:6cda) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 17:41:37 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d8fe:8116:376f:ddd2)
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2021-03-09 17:47:33 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-09 17:48:21 +0100mayleesia(4d0db16a@dynamic-077-013-177-106.77.13.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-09 17:50:33 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-09 17:51:59 +0100danso(~dan@2001:1970:52e7:d000:96b8:6dff:feb3:c009)
2021-03-09 17:52:01 +0100Fractalis(~Fractalis@2601:987:280:fb20:ad9b:b2c6:b33d:6cda)
2021-03-09 17:53:48 +0100 <FortuneZero> I see what you are asking
2021-03-09 17:55:25 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-09 17:55:43 +0100 <FortuneZero> perhaps in GHC it can be implemented in parallel as you suggested:
2021-03-09 17:55:44 +0100 <FortuneZero> unit_or x y = unsafePerformIo $ Control.Concurrent.Async.race_ (return x) (return y)
2021-03-09 17:56:47 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-03-09 17:56:58 +0100 <FortuneZero> Is theoretical Haskell even a thing :]
2021-03-09 17:57:43 +0100CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118)
2021-03-09 17:58:24 +0100comerijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 17:58:56 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-09 17:59:14 +0100gitgoood(~gitgood@82-132-216-176.dab.02.net)
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2021-03-09 18:02:02 +0100kam1(~kam1@83.123.154.198) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-09 18:02:31 +0100 <Gurkenglas> yea im reading a domain theory book very slowly and thinking on all the tangents and hoping itll make me breeze through the excercises
2021-03-09 18:02:39 +0100 <Gurkenglas> ( https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axj/pub/papers/handy1.pdf )
2021-03-09 18:03:48 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-03-09 18:12:05 +0100Techcable_Techcable
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2021-03-09 18:20:43 +0100lordyod6lordyod
2021-03-09 18:21:09 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121)
2021-03-09 18:21:44 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.35.32)
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2021-03-09 18:28:41 +0100Vq_Vq
2021-03-09 18:28:51 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, that's kind of an example where domain theory does not exactly match what is exposed in a lot of programming languages. I think it basically abstracts the ability to interleave algorithms and see if one gives you a result. But that's not included as an operation on arbitrary things in most programming languages.
2021-03-09 18:29:08 +0100graf_blutwurst(~user@2001:171b:226e:adc0:81af:7dfd:a1aa:7c22) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 18:29:58 +0100 <dolio> You could add it, but it'd complicate the execution.
2021-03-09 18:30:32 +0100vicfred(vicfred@gateway/vpn/mullvad/vicfred)
2021-03-09 18:31:04 +0100chele(~chele@ip5b40237d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 18:31:49 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-09 18:37:29 +0100ArsenArsen(~Arsen@fsf/member/ArsenArsen)
2021-03-09 18:38:32 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-09 18:38:43 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-09 18:39:49 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121)
2021-03-09 18:41:59 +0100 <redmp> i heard that the `acid-state` package isn't actually safe against crashes.. are there similar packages which are known to be reliable?
2021-03-09 18:44:41 +0100arcontethegreat[(arcontethe@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tdaiuqgmbdibjmlc)
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2021-03-09 18:47:43 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-09 18:48:24 +0100nineonin_(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
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2021-03-09 18:54:27 +0100 <c_wraith> nothing in haskell. you'd probably end up with sqlite bindings as the easiest way forward.
2021-03-09 18:56:09 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-09 18:58:09 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-09 19:16:13 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-09 19:16:19 +0100joes(~pi@ip5f5ac83d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2021-03-09 19:19:49 +0100FortuneZero(3223b878@50.35.184.120)
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2021-03-09 19:20:36 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-03-09 19:20:48 +0100 <redmp> are there bindings to sqlite which don't rely on string queries?
2021-03-09 19:21:02 +0100cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-09 19:21:10 +0100cheater1cheater
2021-03-09 19:21:42 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-09 19:21:49 +0100 <redmp> i think folks here recommended https://github.com/nurpax/sqlite-simple to me in the past, but that's mostly a string-based interface
2021-03-09 19:22:05 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-funsiyagulsobejm)
2021-03-09 19:22:45 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnpfnslhfdyhjhtg)
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2021-03-09 19:23:28 +0100mitchellsalad(uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxqqcuwejvbcsupd)
2021-03-09 19:23:35 +0100 <geekosaur> in general the typed interfaces are typed misery
2021-03-09 19:24:03 +0100tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-09 19:24:22 +0100 <redmp> geekosaur: it worked out well for servant/servant-server/servant-client
2021-03-09 19:24:59 +0100 <redmp> i wonder if we couldn't leverage similar techniques for dabatase access
2021-03-09 19:25:11 +0100 <redmp> but i guess what i'm hearing is that there isn't a community-accept approach currently
2021-03-09 19:25:18 +0100 <redmp> *community-accepted
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2021-03-09 19:39:39 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-09 19:39:49 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-09 19:40:54 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.217.47) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-09 19:42:24 +0100mimi_vx(~mimi@2a01:490:16:1026:4525:56c0:a6ea:87c1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-09 19:46:36 +0100 <infinisil> Arghhh
2021-03-09 19:46:53 +0100 <infinisil> instance IsString IP where fromString = read
2021-03-09 19:46:58 +0100 <infinisil> Don't do this ^
2021-03-09 19:47:14 +0100Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-03-09 19:47:30 +0100 <infinisil> Just spent an hour trying to debug this until I found this
2021-03-09 19:47:38 +0100AlleriaGuest73167
2021-03-09 19:50:15 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 19:50:18 +0100 <infinisil> This is in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/iproute-1.7.10/docs/Data-IP.html#t:IP
2021-03-09 19:51:36 +0100C4ladbolg(~darkc@ool-18bcd822.dyn.optonline.net)
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2021-03-09 21:21:09 +0100ADG1089__(~aditya@223.226.235.12)
2021-03-09 21:23:25 +0100 <koz_> infinisil: Wow that's some next-level terrible.
2021-03-09 21:24:36 +0100 <koz_> Is there any good... or any _any_ indicator of what `withFile` might throw?
2021-03-09 21:26:20 +0100 <glguy> koz_: that module throws IOError
2021-03-09 21:26:40 +0100 <koz_> glguy: You mean the withFile function throws IOError?
2021-03-09 21:26:46 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-09 21:26:55 +0100 <glguy> the stuff in that module including withFile
2021-03-09 21:27:01 +0100 <koz_> glguy: OK, thanks.
2021-03-09 21:29:05 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b95704cd799b0a8031c33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-03-09 21:32:20 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-09 21:32:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> infinisil: why is that terrible?
2021-03-09 21:33:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> I mean, I don't like OverloadedStrings on the whole, but I don't see why this particular instance is trouble
2021-03-09 21:33:30 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: Because it defers compile-time problems to runtime needlessly.
2021-03-09 21:33:41 +0100 <koz_> A quasi-quoter would have been a much better choice.
2021-03-09 21:34:00 +0100ozataman(~ozataman@pool-100-37-221-69.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-09 21:34:05 +0100 <infinisil> read in general should be avoided since it's partial, and throws a terrible error if it fails (Exception: Prelude.read: no parse)
2021-03-09 21:34:31 +0100 <myShoggoth> No parse, no peace
2021-03-09 21:34:37 +0100 <koz_> Also this.
2021-03-09 21:34:40 +0100 <infinisil> It's especially bad in a library
2021-03-09 21:34:51 +0100 <koz_> It's basically a very bad take at a runtime-failing quasi-quoter.
2021-03-09 21:35:00 +0100 <infinisil> I don't really care what you do in your application, but in a library that has over 1000 downloads a day, I don't want any read's
2021-03-09 21:35:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> I see, and I agree :p
2021-03-09 21:35:33 +0100 <infinisil> 1000 downloads over the last 30 days *
2021-03-09 21:35:51 +0100Athas(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:89fc:c37b:7346:f63b) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
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2021-03-09 21:36:06 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-09 21:36:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> though the problem is lessened by you actually having to write the string in your source file; it won't automatically coerce String to IP fortunately
2021-03-09 21:36:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's a thing you'd be able to do in C++, and it's the worst
2021-03-09 21:36:29 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, but it still needlessly allows garbage which is compile-time checkable for validity.
2021-03-09 21:36:40 +0100 <koz_> And C++ is not a good example of design... anything.
2021-03-09 21:36:49 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.114.199) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-09 21:37:03 +0100mouseghost(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl)
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2021-03-09 21:37:03 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek)
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2021-03-09 21:37:22 +0100Athas(~athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:89fc:c37b:7346:f63b)
2021-03-09 21:37:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> it works well for coding competitions
2021-03-09 21:37:27 +0100 <infinisil> In my case, I used the IsString instance for a test case
2021-03-09 21:38:21 +0100idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-09 21:38:39 +0100 <tomsmeding> (and working well for coding competitions implies, or if not that at least suggests, being bad for any general purpose coding where you have non-zero engineering standards)
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2021-03-09 21:48:01 +0100fr33domlover1fr33domlover
2021-03-09 21:50:04 +0100 <maerwald> are these two fmap implementations equal? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/gfYBRQtl
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2021-03-09 21:54:22 +0100 <glguy> maerwald: does the first one even typecheck?
2021-03-09 21:54:28 +0100 <maerwald> yes
2021-03-09 21:54:34 +0100 <glguy> Oh, sorry. you're not using the normal Cont
2021-03-09 21:54:50 +0100 <maerwald> doesn't typecheck with ContT, yes
2021-03-09 21:54:55 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek)
2021-03-09 21:55:24 +0100 <maerwald> but does it obey the laws etc, I dunno. I'm getting brain aneurism thinking about it.
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2021-03-09 21:58:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> I think (!) that if 'c' has type 'forall r. (a -> r) -> r' for some fixed 'a', then 'c (g . f) = g (c f)' for all f and g
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2021-03-09 21:58:47 +0100 <monochrom> You know what, IIRC some kind of Yoneda lemma says yes, they're the same.
2021-03-09 21:58:50 +0100ozataman(~ozataman@pool-100-37-221-69.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-09 21:58:57 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
2021-03-09 21:59:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> (my proposition would imply that maerwald's both definitions are in fact equivalent)
2021-03-09 21:59:22 +0100 <monochrom> Long story short, you would be right if your intuition says "the forall helps a lot here".
2021-03-09 21:59:30 +0100usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
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2021-03-09 21:59:48 +0100 <dolio> @free c :: forall r. (A -> r) -> r
2021-03-09 21:59:48 +0100 <lambdabot> f . c = c . (.) f
2021-03-09 21:59:52 +0100 <glguy> fmap1 f (Cont c) = Cont \f' -> (f' . f) (c id)
2021-03-09 21:59:52 +0100 <glguy> fmap2 f (Cont c) = Cont \f' -> c (f' . f)
2021-03-09 21:59:55 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.29.216) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-09 21:59:59 +0100mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@80.210.50.109)
2021-03-09 22:00:20 +0100 <monochrom> And yeah natural transformations and stuff too.
2021-03-09 22:00:27 +0100 <glguy> so the question is comparing: g (c id) to c g
2021-03-09 22:00:45 +0100 <monochrom> With that, I'm hungry, it's tea time.
2021-03-09 22:00:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> dolio: yay, that's precisely my proposition!
2021-03-09 22:00:57 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-09 22:01:31 +0100 <glguy> ?unpl c . (.) f
2021-03-09 22:01:31 +0100 <lambdabot> (\ x -> c (\ x0 -> f (x x0)))
2021-03-09 22:01:35 +0100JokerAscensionEx(~egp_@2.95.74.168)
2021-03-09 22:01:40 +0100 <glguy> ?unpl f . c
2021-03-09 22:01:41 +0100 <lambdabot> (\ x -> f (c x))
2021-03-09 22:02:02 +0100 <tomsmeding> or more readably, \g -> c (f . g) versus \g -> f (c g)
2021-03-09 22:02:51 +0100 <monochrom> Heuristic: Every time you see "foo id", suspect Yoneda lemma. :)
2021-03-09 22:03:09 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.29.216)
2021-03-09 22:03:16 +0100tomsmedingstill has to learn category theory some day
2021-03-09 22:03:27 +0100Rembanetoo
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2021-03-09 22:11:04 +0100 <maerwald> tomsmeding: that makes 3 implementations, lol
2021-03-09 22:11:30 +0100 <maerwald> so yeah, it's f (c id) == c f
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2021-03-09 22:28:17 +0100 <krt> trying to run hat-make on the main module of my program, but it can't find any Data modules. I guess it doesn't package any of the Haskell libraries by default, but I can't find any info on how to do it. Could somebody help out?
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2021-03-09 22:29:09 +0100 <krt> (hat-make --help just returns a help page for ghc)
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2021-03-09 22:34:05 +0100 <koz_> Is there some kind of warning I can enable to yell at me for not specifying a derivation strategy?
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2021-03-09 22:49:19 +0100 <infinisil> koz_: How about -Wderiving-defaults + -Werror
2021-03-09 22:49:33 +0100 <koz_> infinisil: From which GHC version is that one available?
2021-03-09 22:50:22 +0100 <infinisil> koz_: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/using-warnings.html?highlight=deriv…
2021-03-09 22:50:25 +0100 <infinisil> I guess 8.10
2021-03-09 22:50:33 +0100 <koz_> Rats, I'm on 8.8 for this.
2021-03-09 22:50:40 +0100 <infinisil> Though try out the snippet there
2021-03-09 22:50:52 +0100 <infinisil> I feel like I got the warning from that before 8.10
2021-03-09 22:51:07 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ac82:e2ec:b3c9:5b56) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-09 22:51:27 +0100 <infinisil> Note that it only triggers for when you have both DeriveAnyClass and GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving and both could be used
2021-03-09 22:51:52 +0100 <infinisil> (which makes me think that's the only case where such a warning is needed)
2021-03-09 22:51:56 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, that's not quite as much as I'd like but it'd help.
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2021-03-09 23:40:24 +0100 <dmj`> would be nice to have a statically enforced UUID library
2021-03-09 23:40:32 +0100 <dmj`> did type level Char land yet
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2021-03-09 23:44:15 +0100 <Axman6> What would it statically enforce?
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2021-03-09 23:44:33 +0100 <Axman6> global uniqueness? That might take a while :)
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2021-03-09 23:46:55 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-09 23:50:11 +0100 <subttle> Hi all, I have a question regarding some Data type with a Unicode name. I can't seem to import the data type from another file, I get the error "Module ‘Finite’ does not export ‘(🀰)’typecheck". Here is the Gist: https://gist.github.com/subttle/14de170221de98ca9abbc96a3f8f7cad Perhaps I should file a bug or is there something I'm missing? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
2021-03-09 23:50:59 +0100 <subttle> haha oops, s/Finite/Dominoes/g in that error message :D
2021-03-09 23:51:13 +0100gitgooodgitgppd
2021-03-09 23:51:15 +0100gitgppdgitgood
2021-03-09 23:51:58 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-09 23:52:40 +0100 <monochrom> Huh, I merely :load it, and it's "(Enable the GADTs extension to allow this)" because the file is using GADT syntax.
2021-03-09 23:53:01 +0100 <Axman6> That's horrific, I love it
2021-03-09 23:53:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-09 23:53:50 +0100 <subttle> monochrom: ah, sorry I had that enabled globally in my cabal build-depends, updated the gist, thanks :)
2021-03-09 23:53:54 +0100 <Axman6> do you need to enable UnicodeSyntax in the module importing it?
2021-03-09 23:54:22 +0100Athas(~athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:89fc:c37b:7346:f63b) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-03-09 23:54:29 +0100 <monochrom> I bet yes for realistic uses.
2021-03-09 23:54:32 +0100Athas_(athas@2a01:7c8:aaac:1cf:89fc:c37b:7346:f63b)
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2021-03-09 23:54:33 +0100 <subttle> The Unicode syntax is simply because I'm using single char `∷` instead of "::"
2021-03-09 23:54:47 +0100p8m_(p8m@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/p8m)
2021-03-09 23:54:51 +0100 <monochrom> But currently I just have "module F where import Dominoes THE END" and no problem so far.
2021-03-09 23:55:25 +0100 <monochrom> After enabling GADTs in Dominoes.hs, that is.
2021-03-09 23:55:39 +0100p8m(p8m@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/p8m) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-09 23:55:41 +0100 <subttle> Axman6: haha thanks, I have UnicodeSyntax enabled globally anyway
2021-03-09 23:55:47 +0100 <Axman6> ew
2021-03-09 23:56:39 +0100Athas_Athas
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2021-03-09 23:58:11 +0100 <subttle> monochrom: So when you import `(🀰) into another file it works for you? Interesting. I'll keep looking into it, thanks for the help!
2021-03-09 23:58:37 +0100 <subttle> Axman6: it's the only way to live :D
2021-03-09 23:58:46 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@2a02:2488:4211:3400:246e:bf09:8453:9d6)
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2021-03-09 23:58:50 +0100 <Axman6> Reminder me to never colaborate with you :)
2021-03-09 23:58:55 +0100 <monochrom> I don't know how to reproduce your error.
2021-03-09 23:59:13 +0100 <monochrom> As said, I can reproduce some other error, but that's easily fixed, as said.
2021-03-09 23:59:26 +0100 <subttle> Axman6: lmao