IRCBrowse

2021/03/05

2021-03-05 00:00:07 +0000 <monochrom> I.e., in C++, you have <> all over the place. Remember?
2021-03-05 00:00:17 +0000 <koz_> .... lol.
2021-03-05 00:00:28 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> I'm saving this, that was freaking hilarious
2021-03-05 00:00:44 +0000 <koz_> But yeah, how _do_ you pronounce <>?
2021-03-05 00:00:48 +0000Jesin(~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-05 00:00:59 +0000 <monochrom> I'm sorry I'm working on LLVM "write an analysis/optimization pass" assignments, C++ is very much in my working memory.
2021-03-05 00:01:19 +0000 <koz_> monochrom: I am so sorry.
2021-03-05 00:01:23 +0000 <koz_> You deserve kittens.
2021-03-05 00:01:41 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> C-lt-gt
2021-03-05 00:01:55 +0000 <monochrom> It's alright. It's how I saw the double pun.
2021-03-05 00:03:20 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> koz_: "The problem is that array and list are not synonymous in literally any other context." And to add to the confusion we have ArrayList in Java.
2021-03-05 00:04:42 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> I shun Java, just because of its horrid sister-language javascript. I've never actually tried it, but geez, JS is so, so, so horrible.
2021-03-05 00:05:16 +0000 <int-e> the languages have nothing in common beyond the name and a bit of C ancestry
2021-03-05 00:05:17 +0000 <koz_> __minoru__shirae: Yeah, that's a dynamic array. I don't think it's as bad.
2021-03-05 00:05:24 +0000 <koz_> And also what int-e said.
2021-03-05 00:05:55 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> heck-to-the-gnom: Java and JS aren't more related then any pair of C-based languages
2021-03-05 00:06:00 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> Not to mention the horrendous mess that I hear Java imports are, where in every code linter it yells at you for not being way-overly specific with them.
2021-03-05 00:06:03 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:48e7:a60f:4556:52a3)
2021-03-05 00:06:16 +0000 <koz_> Also, what's the opposite of 'inlining'? I'd normally say 'de-inlining', but wouldn't that be 'outlining'?
2021-03-05 00:06:20 +0000cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-05 00:06:53 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> un-inlining, or outlining both sound right to me
2021-03-05 00:08:44 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> and I don't understand why people say that JS is horrible, one example is implicit conversions, but in a dynamically typed language you are supposed to use explicit conversion anyway, seems to me.
2021-03-05 00:10:11 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ad70:b790:2132:9c51) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-05 00:10:33 +0000nf(~n@monade.li) (Quit: Fairfarren.)
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2021-03-05 00:10:45 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> koz_, "lists are never, ever, ever, arrays." in Java world they have a List interface that is implemented by LinkedList and ArrayList. I guess you're saying that LinkedList is never an ArrayList in Java terms.
2021-03-05 00:10:53 +0000cgadski(~textual@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
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2021-03-05 00:14:47 +0000atk(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK)
2021-03-05 00:14:52 +0000omnitrogen_(~omnitroge@vps-c9700282.vps.ovh.net)
2021-03-05 00:14:54 +0000ArsenArsen_(~Arsen@fsf/member/ArsenArsen)
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2021-03-05 00:15:12 +0000JaakkoLuttinen[m(jluttinema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jxffrgesqwkjiyek) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:15:18 +0000CrabMan(phi-matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ncflvngxohdcpaqc)
2021-03-05 00:15:26 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> And, as far as script languages, it's not all that great in performance. Python really went down the right route with that, where anything that can be converted to pure C, is done automatically, then cached, for further executions. But I digress,
2021-03-05 00:15:29 +0000omnitrogen(~omnitroge@vps-c9700282.vps.ovh.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:15:30 +0000romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-05 00:15:31 +0000kadoban(kadobanemp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-psvjfqyhnjjfvaqu) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-03-05 00:15:34 +0000my_name_is_not_j(mynameisno@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lnbatcivvyyktlgd) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-05 00:15:41 +0000omnitrogen_omnitrogen
2021-03-05 00:15:48 +0000nf(~n@monade.li)
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2021-03-05 00:16:08 +0000 <koz_> __minoru__shirae: I am not gonna argue nomenclature with the language that gives us DriverApplicationFlyweightProtypeInterfaceObjectHandlers.
2021-03-05 00:16:10 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-03-05 00:16:19 +0000sagax(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:16:25 +0000 <koz_> Plus, note my distinct lack of capitalization in that sentence.
2021-03-05 00:17:22 +0000comboy(~quassel@tesuji.pl)
2021-03-05 00:17:34 +0000theDon(~td@94.134.91.49) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:17:48 +0000 <koz_> heck-to-the-gnom: Or, if we're gonna talk scriptlang perf, we can look at LuaJIT, which is that and then some.
2021-03-05 00:17:57 +0000pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-exzquzvqtvnlmwnw)
2021-03-05 00:18:42 +0000pharaun(~pharaun@static.88-198-62-245.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-05 00:18:58 +0000theDon(~td@94.134.91.49)
2021-03-05 00:19:13 +0000 <koz_> But aaaanyway.
2021-03-05 00:19:19 +0000 <koz_> This is #haskell, not #languagegripes.
2021-03-05 00:19:35 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> True that
2021-03-05 00:20:09 +0000romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 00:20:32 +0000JaakkoLuttinen[m(jluttinema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-grojhtohdxnxeeyc)
2021-03-05 00:20:33 +0000beardhatcode(robbertbea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-yrzeqqovfcgynlys)
2021-03-05 00:20:41 +0000 <alexfmpe> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/lang.html <-this page is gone or just down?
2021-03-05 00:20:55 +0000 <alexfmpe> used to have the extension descriptions on it
2021-03-05 00:20:55 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> koz_, seems like the term "list" is too overloaded, maybe you should say "cons list"?
2021-03-05 00:20:58 +0000romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-05 00:21:10 +0000kadoban(kadobanemp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-orwvobvmsxoskufi)
2021-03-05 00:21:18 +0000 <koz_> __minoru__shirae: In the data structures world it is not. And I am firmly there.
2021-03-05 00:21:22 +0000 <koz_> You can do what you like.
2021-03-05 00:22:49 +0000ByteEater(57cd846a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.87.205.132.106) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-05 00:23:03 +0000deu(de@uio.re)
2021-03-05 00:23:23 +0000mly[m](mlydisenco@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qjhvevhpltpfoqbc)
2021-03-05 00:23:25 +0000the_1_[m](the1matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-omadakojgvgseqgu)
2021-03-05 00:23:25 +0000invent[m](inventmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vckgemxonksixvml)
2021-03-05 00:23:32 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> but anyway, in list vs array discussions people typically figure out the semantics anyway
2021-03-05 00:23:44 +0000my_name_is_not_j(mynameisno@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cikestsovlfgskzl)
2021-03-05 00:24:18 +0000 <__minoru__shirae> it's like a mini-wave of confusion that later dissolves
2021-03-05 00:24:34 +0000srid(sridmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bkpxgefkheugtalm)
2021-03-05 00:24:46 +0000 <int-e> alexfmpe: a deep link into the documentation, hmm. the chapter was renamed, it seems: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts.html
2021-03-05 00:24:57 +0000lnxw37d4(lnxw37d4ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kbuniydwnivkskyv)
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2021-03-05 00:25:27 +0000f-a(~f-a@151.68.209.64) ()
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2021-03-05 00:32:33 +0000 <Axman6> Is Java's ArrayList implemented as a list of arrays, like Lazy ByteString/Text?
2021-03-05 00:32:41 +0000 <koz_> Axman6: Dynamic array.
2021-03-05 00:32:47 +0000 <koz_> With resizing at 1.5 I think?
2021-03-05 00:32:47 +0000 <Axman6> :'(
2021-03-05 00:33:00 +0000 <monochrom> The "List" part refers to its API.
2021-03-05 00:33:35 +0000 <monochrom> class ArrayList<T> implements List<T> etc
2021-03-05 00:33:54 +0000qih__keeps forgetting that his Desktop is a RPiv3 *not* the 8 Core AMD4 >8-/
2021-03-05 00:34:06 +0000elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-05 00:34:17 +0000 <Axman6> I've thought for a while I wouldn't mind having a lazy vector type, which can give some of the advantages of lists' sharing, and possibly faster algorithms when contiguous memory is useful
2021-03-05 00:34:24 +0000 <monochrom> Where is your 8 core AMD then? :)
2021-03-05 00:34:29 +0000 <qih__> Stupid @medium, and their monstrous page bloat
2021-03-05 00:34:34 +0000 <koz_> Axman6: I _believe_ massiv has something like that?
2021-03-05 00:34:38 +0000 <qih__> monochrom: Dead, mobo failed.
2021-03-05 00:34:39 +0000 <koz_> (I could be wrong though)
2021-03-05 00:34:47 +0000 <Axman6> interesting, I need to look at massiv more
2021-03-05 00:34:56 +0000 <infinisil> alexfmpe: int-e: The new page is pretty bad for discovering extensions..
2021-03-05 00:35:15 +0000 <qih__> monochrom: New one en-route today.
2021-03-05 00:35:24 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ad70:b790:2132:9c51) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-05 00:35:57 +0000 <infinisil> alexfmpe: I'm gonna keep using the slightly older version for now: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.8.4/docs/html/users_guide/glasgow_exts.html
2021-03-05 00:36:14 +0000 <monochrom> Yes this is why I said that webdevs should be confined to OLPC laptops.
2021-03-05 00:36:31 +0000 <koz_> monochrom: Agreed.
2021-03-05 00:36:38 +0000 <koz_> One Laptop Per Webdev.
2021-03-05 00:36:47 +0000softwarm(44695313@ip68-105-83-19.sd.sd.cox.net)
2021-03-05 00:37:07 +0000 <qih__> koz_: To make them understand their $users pain? Agree.
2021-03-05 00:37:41 +0000softwarm(44695313@ip68-105-83-19.sd.sd.cox.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 00:39:21 +0000 <qih__> I couldn't imagine being in the global South and having to view the WWW/Internet via mobile-only, that'd be torture.
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2021-03-05 00:41:08 +0000 <monochrom> https://danluu.com/web-bloat/ is a good take and critique on this. It is pretty bad even for rural parts of US.
2021-03-05 00:41:24 +0000 <qih__> monochrom: Ta.
2021-03-05 00:41:26 +0000 <koz_> Yeah - internet provision even within countries can vary a lot.
2021-03-05 00:42:08 +0000mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-05 00:42:53 +0000 <monochrom> The most heart-breaking part is that very trivial, no-brainer improvement techniques exist.
2021-03-05 00:44:31 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:48e7:a60f:4556:52a3) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-05 00:49:17 +0000 <qih__> It blows my little mind, that the US, the origin of the WWW/Internet actually has crap fraudband outside the major Urban locales. I thought us colonials were all alone in that.
2021-03-05 00:49:35 +0000 <koz_> qih__: Yeah. I knew a few folks in that particular predicament.
2021-03-05 00:49:44 +0000 <koz_> ('knew' in the sense 'they are no longer')
2021-03-05 00:50:23 +0000 <qih__> koz_: Right, lucky them. So much for all the NBN (AU) and UFB (NZ) efforts, eh?
2021-03-05 00:51:05 +0000 <koz_> qih__: I know of NBN woes. I dunno of fibre issues here. But then again, I live in a really good area and have hilarious speeds.
2021-03-05 00:51:41 +0000 <qih__> Nice.
2021-03-05 00:52:02 +0000 <koz_> (in fact I just realized my ISP is offering to make mine even more hilariously fast)
2021-03-05 00:52:11 +0000 <koz_> (to the point where I can just become a data center)
2021-03-05 00:54:40 +0000 <qih__> koz_: You are in AU, right?
2021-03-05 00:54:45 +0000 <koz_> NZ
2021-03-05 00:56:26 +0000 <qih__> Ah right, der. Nice one. In theory I have Gigabit but I suspect that due to over-scribing or network 'shaping' our speeds are now about 300Mbps max, used to be 900Mbps +/- 50 <= true story, it was awesome.
2021-03-05 00:56:57 +0000 <koz_> I mean... yeah, that's not ideal, but it's still 'hilariously fast' by any real measure IMHO,
2021-03-05 00:57:13 +0000 <koz_> Unless you wanna cosplay as a data center.
2021-03-05 00:57:57 +0000 <qih__> Where was Fibre when BitTorrent was all the rage, eh? <= not that breaching copyright restrictions is to be countenanced in any way!
2021-03-05 00:58:17 +0000 <koz_> Meanwhile here I am compiling GHC again.
2021-03-05 01:00:25 +0000 <qih__> I was reading in Graham Huttons 2 Edition on Haskell and noted "you cannot assign a value to a variable, then reassign another value to that variable", paraphrased. But I am sure I could. I made a quick Acceleration equation in the REPL, then could reassign the VAR ACCEL new arbitray values. Or am I mistaken?
2021-03-05 01:01:19 +0000stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-03-05 01:02:47 +0000 <dolio> Variables aren't assigned. The ones in e.g. a let are defined to be the value of some expression. They can shadow other variables with the same name, though.
2021-03-05 01:03:46 +0000kibo(~kibo@51-171-46-249-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net)
2021-03-05 01:03:47 +0000 <koz_> Yeah, you'd have the equivalent of 'let x = whatever in let x = whateverElse in doMyThing x'.
2021-03-05 01:04:03 +0000 <qih__> dolio: Ah I get that now, thanks.
2021-03-05 01:04:06 +0000conal_(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-05 01:06:28 +0000 <qih__> Like Python & Erlang, I did have to assign Velocity Final (vf) = something, etc, so it was quite friendly to work with, then just call the result using 'accel'.
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2021-03-05 01:11:53 +0000whataday(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-03-05 01:11:56 +0000 <monochrom> Here is a short experiment to find out that the semantics is shadowing, not changing.
2021-03-05 01:12:01 +0000 <monochrom> (in the REPL)
2021-03-05 01:12:14 +0000 <monochrom> You first have, say, x=0.
2021-03-05 01:12:27 +0000 <monochrom> Then have f n = n + x
2021-03-05 01:12:38 +0000 <monochrom> Then you have x=1.
2021-03-05 01:12:51 +0000 <qih__> k
2021-03-05 01:12:53 +0000 <monochrom> Now you test what happens to f 5 for example.
2021-03-05 01:13:06 +0000 <monochrom> This shows which version of x f uses.
2021-03-05 01:13:54 +0000stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-05 01:15:03 +0000 <koz_> Is there some way to write 'foo :: (Functor f) => (a -> b, a -> c) -> f a -> f (b, c)'?
2021-03-05 01:15:25 +0000 <qih__> if x = 0, f 5 gives 5, but if x = 1, f 5, gives 6
2021-03-05 01:15:41 +0000 <monochrom> I think you convert (a->b, a->c) to (a -> (b,c)), then you can use fmap.
2021-03-05 01:15:56 +0000 <qih__> So f will use the latest version of x, so this is called 'shadowing'?
2021-03-05 01:16:22 +0000 <koz_> qih__: If by 'latest' you mean 'bound in the innermost scope', then yes.
2021-03-05 01:16:26 +0000 <monochrom> But f uses the old version.
2021-03-05 01:16:57 +0000 <Axman6> f uses the x which was in scope when it was defined
2021-03-05 01:17:17 +0000 <monochrom> "shadowing" refers to if you ask about x now, you get 1, but there is an old version of x, out of reach from your latest POV but f still has it.
2021-03-05 01:17:37 +0000 <Axman6> if you then redefine x, f will still point to the old one, but then if you redefine f too it will point to the new x
2021-03-05 01:17:40 +0000 <qih__> but isn't x = 0, defining x?
2021-03-05 01:18:18 +0000 <Axman6> yes, but it's not redefining all the previous uses of x
2021-03-05 01:18:23 +0000 <qih__> Get a result, assign x = 1, get a new result. That's how it worked out.
2021-03-05 01:18:33 +0000 <monochrom> The wording is "the new x shadows the old x". The subtext is "the old x is still around, just eclipsed"
2021-03-05 01:18:37 +0000 <qih__> Axman6: Oh, it's not. Why not?
2021-03-05 01:18:56 +0000 <Axman6> > let x = 0; f n = n + x in let x = 2 in f 0
2021-03-05 01:18:58 +0000 <lambdabot> 0
2021-03-05 01:19:16 +0000 <Axman6> that is reoughly equivalent to running...
2021-03-05 01:19:19 +0000 <Axman6> x = 0
2021-03-05 01:19:24 +0000 <Axman6> f n = n + x
2021-03-05 01:19:29 +0000 <Axman6> x = 2
2021-03-05 01:19:31 +0000 <Axman6> f 0
2021-03-05 01:19:37 +0000 <Axman6> -> 0
2021-03-05 01:19:40 +0000rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfdimwsiaqqzwwly)
2021-03-05 01:19:42 +0000m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-05 01:20:01 +0000 <koz_> @pl \x y -> (,) <$> x <*> y
2021-03-05 01:20:02 +0000 <lambdabot> (((,) <$>) .) . (<*>)
2021-03-05 01:20:06 +0000 <monochrom> "x = 0" is "define x to be 0", yes.
2021-03-05 01:20:16 +0000 <Axman6> after the x = 2, any new definition which references x will reference the x which is 2
2021-03-05 01:20:36 +0000 <Axman6> but anything defined before the x = 2 is referring to the value 0, which was named x at the time
2021-03-05 01:20:54 +0000 <Axman6> qih__: unrelated but this seemed relevant to you: https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2021/3/goodbye-small-server-hello-150-watt-office
2021-03-05 01:21:09 +0000pfurla(~pfurla@pool-108-6-43-243.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-03-05 01:23:04 +0000 <qih__> Axman6: Thanks for the explanation, I'll read more on it but I get it (Tentatively)
2021-03-05 01:23:16 +0000 <qih__> And thanks for that link, nice one.
2021-03-05 01:24:11 +0000crobbins(~crobbins@2600:1700:48eb:8490:9416:7f26:bb22:cc55) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 01:25:41 +0000jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-05 01:25:54 +0000 <qih__> Axman6: That's a nice setup and personal goal he has. I'd not take a job if I *had* to use Windows, sorry.
2021-03-05 01:26:34 +0000 <monochrom> What if the "job" is e-sport? >:)
2021-03-05 01:27:03 +0000 <monochrom> "Your job is to compete in AoE2DE tournaments so you have to use Windows"
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2021-03-05 01:28:43 +0000 <qih__> monochrom: I'm a lamer gamer, that'd never happen. I am awesome on Minecraft but FPS not anymore.
2021-03-05 01:29:10 +0000 <monochrom> But AoE2DE is RTS not FPS.
2021-03-05 01:29:53 +0000 <monochrom> OK, "But I play its Regicide mode so it's FPS. It's always personal!" >:)
2021-03-05 01:30:22 +0000slack1256is thinking on a AoE2DE tournament for #haskell
2021-03-05 01:30:30 +0000 <monochrom> onoes
2021-03-05 01:30:38 +0000jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-05 01:32:43 +0000 <qih__> monochrom: OK fair point, just highlighting my lameness.
2021-03-05 01:32:57 +0000Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-03-05 01:33:10 +0000sagax(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146)
2021-03-05 01:34:19 +0000 <qih__> A really smart guy I know made an excellent Starcraft-in-concept game based on Erlang. Should bother him and see where it is at. I'd play a cool, console-based (CLI) game that was interactive and interesting.
2021-03-05 01:34:39 +0000myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-03-05 01:36:47 +0000 <qih__> I started a CLI-based game in Python (Sorry) but I will port it to Haskell when I can do more than >> :l lame_program.hs 8-)
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2021-03-05 01:56:57 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-03-05 01:57:20 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> can I set ghc-options in cabal.project so it applies to all packages?
2021-03-05 01:57:31 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> or do I have to set it in each cabal file separately
2021-03-05 01:58:31 +0000hyiltiz-M(hyiltizkde@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-ziqtfceeiaptadfr)
2021-03-05 01:59:22 +0000VarikValefor[m](varikvalef@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pwtjczbvhoktmglx)
2021-03-05 01:59:23 +0000ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 01:59:39 +0000jespada(~jespada@90.254.243.187) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 01:59:47 +0000ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-03-05 01:59:47 +0000ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 01:59:51 +0000 <infinisil> ezzieyguywuf: You can specify `package <package>\nghc-options: ...` in cabal.project for it to apply to all *components* of that package at least
2021-03-05 02:00:18 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-05 02:00:22 +0000 <monochrom> "package *" is legal and is a wildcard.
2021-03-05 02:00:31 +0000 <infinisil> Oh nice
2021-03-05 02:00:31 +0000ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-03-05 02:00:33 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> I could do the same with a `common` stanza in the packages cabal file though, and if I have to do it once per package anyway this is probably the more correct way
2021-03-05 02:00:40 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm....
2021-03-05 02:01:35 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> is it `package *\n` or `package *:\n`?
2021-03-05 02:01:36 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:01:57 +0000dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-05 02:02:07 +0000 <infinisil> You'll get an error if you use the wrong one :)
2021-03-05 02:02:16 +0000jespada(~jespada@90.254.243.187)
2021-03-05 02:02:40 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> lol
2021-03-05 02:02:52 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> indeed I did
2021-03-05 02:04:10 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, why do only my test-suit stanzas have "ghc-options: -threaded -rtsopts -with-rtsopts=-N", I have a feeling this came from `cabal init` but I don't knw what they do
2021-03-05 02:05:08 +0000apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-05 02:05:26 +0000 <Clint> so that they'll break on all platforms without -N
2021-03-05 02:05:55 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> so that's a good thing?
2021-03-05 02:06:15 +0000ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:42a8:8650:90d4:54bc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:06:25 +0000 <monochrom> No colon. Just newline.
2021-03-05 02:06:32 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> is there a reason it's only needed on the test-suite though?
2021-03-05 02:06:42 +0000 <monochrom> I mean for "package foo" and "package *"
2021-03-05 02:06:42 +0000 <Clint> it's not needed at all, it's largely an annoyance
2021-03-05 02:06:59 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> Which 'it'?
2021-03-05 02:07:00 +0000dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:07:20 +0000SupaYoshii(~supayoshi@213-10-140-13.fixed.kpn.net)
2021-03-05 02:07:26 +0000lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:07:36 +0000 <monochrom> I don't think "cabal init" auto-gens any ghc-options at all.
2021-03-05 02:07:42 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> Clint: great, I'll get rid of it.
2021-03-05 02:07:51 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> monochrom: I must have gotten it from the interwebs then
2021-03-05 02:07:55 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> those particular options are standard with new stack projects however
2021-03-05 02:08:02 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> I STARTED WITH STACK!
2021-03-05 02:08:04 +0000SupaYoshi(~supayoshi@213.10.140.13) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:08:04 +0000gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:08:05 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> so that's probably why
2021-03-05 02:08:42 +0000gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-05 02:08:45 +0000waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jksqnlfrjzjlkhlm)
2021-03-05 02:08:54 +0000lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
2021-03-05 02:10:11 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ad70:b790:2132:9c51)
2021-03-05 02:11:22 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> -threaded uses the threaded (as opposed to non-threaded) rts, -rtsopts allows extra rts options to be specifies at runtime you wouldn't be able to otherwise, -with-rtsopts=-N passes the rts the -N flag which says to create as many capabilities as the pc has cores available, one per core. capabilities are little virtual machines that manage ghc's threads
2021-03-05 02:11:31 +0000themsay[m](themsaymat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hbatkioaxwxoyeob)
2021-03-05 02:12:05 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> I'm unsure what Clint is referring to about platform breaking or which particular annoyances
2021-03-05 02:12:09 +0000 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, that all sounds actually useful
2021-03-05 02:12:18 +0000lambdaclan(lambdaclan@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sallzvkvkldcgkut)
2021-03-05 02:12:46 +0000 <waleee-cl> I'm trying to apply this https://github.com/llvm-hs/llvm-hs/issues/315#issuecomment-755229982 in a stack.yaml , but during the build it seems to be parsed as xx=-std=c++11 instead of -optcxx=-std=c++11 . Is it malformed in some way ?
2021-03-05 02:13:02 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> it's useful if your progam uses libs that take advantage of threads, common libs such as async for example
2021-03-05 02:13:14 +0000the_1_[m](the1matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ydnkooibksztllyy)
2021-03-05 02:13:14 +0000srid(sridmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-naqkszpohzlsbubr)
2021-03-05 02:13:53 +0000 <Clint> MarcelineVQ: if you're on a platform where ghc doesn't "Support SMP" it will fail to build and most testsuites don't actually seem to take advantage of threading
2021-03-05 02:14:13 +0000Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uuniqtfysevxnvsh) ()
2021-03-05 02:14:41 +0000boistordu(boistordum@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-epqhlcgltbmupbxi)
2021-03-05 02:14:57 +0000JaakkoLuttinen[m(jluttinema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sivibcbidnslmvhv)
2021-03-05 02:15:20 +0000speakerspivakeem(speakerdea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-grrchxbekhuqojog)
2021-03-05 02:15:21 +0000 <infinisil> Hmm, why is -N not the default?
2021-03-05 02:15:22 +0000oreoking[m](oreokingma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sfbsvckrwskkmqtb)
2021-03-05 02:15:36 +0000domenkozar[m](domenkozar@NixOS/user/domenkozar)
2021-03-05 02:15:46 +0000Lurkki[m](lurkkipriv@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xzyglswxynebzkit)
2021-03-05 02:15:50 +0000alecs[m](malumorema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dlpnoymfcpnetnsl)
2021-03-05 02:16:05 +0000 <shapr> infinisil: I think there's a ghc proposal to make it the default
2021-03-05 02:16:07 +0000Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-05 02:16:14 +0000Hanma[m](hanmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jgikxfrvozhpbsoi)
2021-03-05 02:16:15 +0000ManofLetters[m](manoflette@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ntjjesgcogujguzg)
2021-03-05 02:16:30 +0000toasty_avocado[m(toastyavoc@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wkhjyjmxecrptsuj)
2021-03-05 02:17:17 +0000mjlbach(atriusmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ietoxhbonvcmpxmf)
2021-03-05 02:17:50 +0000 <infinisil> Oh there's https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/240
2021-03-05 02:18:08 +0000 <infinisil> Though it's only -threaded by default, not -N (and gives a reason why, because of bad performance)
2021-03-05 02:18:15 +0000ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:ce0d:4010:b248:c5be)
2021-03-05 02:18:37 +0000 <monochrom> For most of the years since -N was first invented, people found that it performs worse than, say, -N($ncpus - constant).
2021-03-05 02:19:56 +0000 <infinisil> Is there an outlook for improving multithreading?
2021-03-05 02:20:21 +0000 <monochrom> Yes, IIRC the culprit is GC, and it's worked on. Maybe even already solved.
2021-03-05 02:20:22 +0000 <infinisil> Or is it a matter of carefully optimizing the code and GC
2021-03-05 02:20:50 +0000 <infinisil> Nice
2021-03-05 02:21:35 +0000 <monochrom> I think either 8.10 or 9.0 is better, I forgot which, I saw something along that line in a release note.
2021-03-05 02:22:18 +0000chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:dc3c)
2021-03-05 02:22:25 +0000zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-05 02:22:31 +0000darkcodi[m](darkcodima@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-npqntjjhuhxltvgw)
2021-03-05 02:22:48 +0000zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-05 02:22:49 +0000unclechu(unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bnvsoeizanvczqdz)
2021-03-05 02:23:05 +0000 <infinisil> monochrom: Maybe https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.10.1/docs/html/users_guide/runtime_control.html#rts-flag---non…
2021-03-05 02:23:06 +0000pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fomxwbukrzfljorj)
2021-03-05 02:23:13 +0000mly[m](mlydisenco@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cntmtcfjpjgfyemu)
2021-03-05 02:23:23 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> Clint: I see surprising, thank you
2021-03-05 02:23:32 +0000chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:dc3c) (Client Quit)
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2021-03-05 02:25:53 +0000PotatoHatsue(berbermanp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-owxvktbultetirdz)
2021-03-05 02:25:55 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah, infinisil.
2021-03-05 02:26:56 +0000 <infinisil> Now reading https://well-typed.com/blog/2019/10/nonmoving-gc-merge/
2021-03-05 02:27:09 +0000jeffcasavant[m]1(jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zuesfmusebgxexbx)
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2021-03-05 02:32:57 +0000maralorn(maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mqkrcevpalnehvqb)
2021-03-05 02:33:00 +0000 <swarmcollective> monochrom: myShaggoth spent some time today reviewing the GC on stream.
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2021-03-05 02:33:33 +0000ThaEwat(thaewraptm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-adbxucyaclkjrrut)
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2021-03-05 02:35:01 +0000MrMuffles[m](mrmufflesm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-esnxvkbmvtiuhuxs)
2021-03-05 02:35:03 +0000 <monochrom> Did they find out some SMP-friendly improvements?
2021-03-05 02:35:22 +0000slack1256(~slack1256@45.4.2.52) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 02:35:50 +0000mud(kadobanmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vshgkgtjqjjszdqu)
2021-03-05 02:35:56 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-05 02:36:21 +0000AbtractSingleton(rasurumatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fubfwjnqfyqisvqw)
2021-03-05 02:37:06 +0000 <swarmcollective> Just review at this point. Good collaboration, though. I learned a lot from watching.
2021-03-05 02:37:31 +0000simara[m](simaramatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-anbvmsbvavejhojm)
2021-03-05 02:37:33 +0000 <infinisil> Oh nice, ImpredicativeTypes in 9.2.1: https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/9.2.1-notes.html
2021-03-05 02:37:56 +0000MichaelHoffmannb(brisadmozi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bxwoulfwiwwtdyhj)
2021-03-05 02:38:06 +0000a-tsioh[m](a-tsiohmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rrcleclrzigajexo)
2021-03-05 02:38:28 +0000johnnyboy[m](gifumatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ykeglgztelluebmc)
2021-03-05 02:39:03 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-05 02:39:11 +0000bitonic(bitonicmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vqjrvuxpfudllnzv)
2021-03-05 02:39:45 +0000sigmacool[m](sigmacoolm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vtxmfxjoeekeagds)
2021-03-05 02:40:07 +0000alar[m](alarmxalat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cktkugutuxvtjihl)
2021-03-05 02:40:58 +0000pineapples[m](pineapples@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fntvhpevrfdituay)
2021-03-05 02:41:06 +0000berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cxfwanztfqrqbbdt)
2021-03-05 02:41:12 +0000rednaZ[m](r3dnazmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dbwjulyjscwdxosr)
2021-03-05 02:41:21 +0000 <c_wraith> infinisil: it's there already. It will just do something meaningful in 9.2 :P
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2021-03-05 02:41:31 +0000dyniec[m](dyniecmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bbtyofnilpeshbbz)
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2021-03-05 02:42:06 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-05 02:42:08 +0000 <infinisil> Hehe yea
2021-03-05 02:42:17 +0000infinisilchecks what ImpredicativeTypes does currently
2021-03-05 02:42:44 +0000Liyang[m](liyangmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-khhkarelngwsexgr)
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2021-03-05 02:44:46 +0000myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
2021-03-05 02:44:59 +0000 <infinisil> Ah right, very flaky and unreliable
2021-03-05 02:45:02 +0000kadoban(kadobanemp@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iaialaudtoihlpte)
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2021-03-05 02:56:31 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah I'm looking forward to impredicativity.
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2021-03-05 03:13:22 +0000 <cheater> more like impredictivetypes
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2021-03-05 05:08:48 +0000 <nshepperd2> what's so great about ImpredicativeTypes
2021-03-05 05:09:28 +0000polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 05:10:02 +0000 <dolio> They're so great that there's a special case to make ($) impredicative. But it only works with ($).
2021-03-05 05:10:50 +0000crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:9418:5902:a549:750a) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 05:11:00 +0000 <dolio> Once the new type checking method is in, it will hopefully work for other things, too, like (.).
2021-03-05 05:11:09 +0000 <monochrom> You can have [forall r. (Int -> r -> r) -> r -> r].
2021-03-05 05:11:12 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:5cf2:2052:1645:5a49)
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2021-03-05 05:12:17 +0000 <nshepperd2> the ($) special case is nice but doesn't really seem like a killer app for a whole new type inference
2021-03-05 05:12:39 +0000 <dolio> It's not that different.
2021-03-05 05:13:24 +0000Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-03-05 05:18:05 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> I'm curious, how practical is it to use something like HOUSE (low-level haskell OS - 1.44mb!!!) on an embedded system, or a smaller board?
2021-03-05 05:18:54 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> Certainly it's not going to replace something like Linux, at least not until it gets a major rewrite and lots of attention, but I'm curious
2021-03-05 05:20:28 +0000 <Lycurgus> depends on what you mean by embedded system
2021-03-05 05:20:51 +0000 <Lycurgus> typically the kind of u ctl based thing would be impractical
2021-03-05 05:21:04 +0000 <Lycurgus> *u ctlr
2021-03-05 05:21:43 +0000 <Lycurgus> also the very idea of hs at that hdw level is imho, daft
2021-03-05 05:22:28 +0000 <Lycurgus> though you are sure to find differing opinions on that here
2021-03-05 05:23:45 +0000 <Lycurgus> sometimes, 'embedded' means just inside something without scale implications, then that could be quite different
2021-03-05 05:24:45 +0000KeithAdams(~KeithAdam@cpe-76-88-2-16.san.res.rr.com)
2021-03-05 05:24:56 +0000 <Lycurgus> also hs talking to a convention u ctrl based system / net of devices would work
2021-03-05 05:24:57 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> I mean small chips like arduino, and smaller boards like rasberry pis
2021-03-05 05:25:16 +0000 <Lycurgus> yeah that's what I meant
2021-03-05 05:25:51 +0000 <Lycurgus> atmel, for example, which I worked with a couple of ya, are often like 32K
2021-03-05 05:25:58 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> Well, it's certainly no easy task, but I think that could be a fun hobby project one summer
2021-03-05 05:26:03 +0000 <Lycurgus> the device I worked with was anyway
2021-03-05 05:26:05 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> making one myself that is
2021-03-05 05:26:37 +0000KeithAdams(~KeithAdam@cpe-76-88-2-16.san.res.rr.com) ()
2021-03-05 05:26:38 +0000 <Lycurgus> yeah there's surely existing projects, and ghcjs
2021-03-05 05:28:25 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> Woah, I just had a crazy idea, and I'd have to do more research, but ghcjs is either exactly this, or similar: WASM Haskell. If I ever have to do web dev, that's what I'm doing, everything else be damned
2021-03-05 05:28:49 +0000redmp(~redmp@172.58.35.185) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-05 05:29:26 +0000 <Lycurgus> *conventional
2021-03-05 05:30:26 +0000jrm(~jrm@freebsd/developer/jrm) (Quit: ciao)
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2021-03-05 05:30:46 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> Oh, GHCJS is a bit different, but aside from performance, the same thing
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2021-03-05 06:02:04 +0000 <ephemient> heck-to-the-gnom: I've never used https://github.com/tweag/asterius but it is apparently haskell→wasm. they have some web demos
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2021-03-05 06:38:21 +0000 <Aleksejs_Home> hey, can someone explain why the first one works but the second one fails? http://vpaste.net/OR9Zk
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2021-03-05 06:49:09 +0000 <mniip> Aleksejs_Home, because x and 100 have different types here
2021-03-05 06:49:31 +0000sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-03-05 06:51:06 +0000danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
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2021-03-05 06:51:29 +0000 <mniip> x :: (RealFrac a, Floating a) => a
2021-03-05 06:51:34 +0000 <mniip> 100 :: Integral a => a
2021-03-05 06:52:09 +0000 <mniip> there's no type that inhabits both
2021-03-05 06:52:20 +0000 <mniip> in more concrete terms, your x is probably a Double, and your 100 is probably an Integer
2021-03-05 06:52:43 +0000 <mniip> er, I'm talking about the 100 in (100 `mod` n)
2021-03-05 06:52:53 +0000 <mniip> the other 100 has the same type as x
2021-03-05 06:53:22 +0000 <mniip> so in the former piece of code you have two 100's that have different types
2021-03-05 06:53:24 +0000 <mniip> ;)
2021-03-05 06:54:09 +0000Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-03-05 06:55:10 +0000 <Aleksejs_Home> so, sqrt defines the type of x there?
2021-03-05 06:58:36 +0000kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:1479:545e:89b1:d1b9) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-05 07:00:36 +0000bmuller(~brent@168.103.131.108) ()
2021-03-05 07:01:08 +0000 <mniip> Aleksejs_Home, yes
2021-03-05 07:01:19 +0000 <mniip> sqrt has the same input and output type
2021-03-05 07:01:37 +0000 <mniip> notably, haskell doesn't do subtyping in arithmetic like you would see in most other languages
2021-03-05 07:01:50 +0000cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-05 07:01:50 +0000 <mniip> if you have x :: Int, you can't do `sqrt x`
2021-03-05 07:01:58 +0000psutcliffe(~psutcliff@m83-185-90-134.cust.tele2.se)
2021-03-05 07:02:13 +0000 <mniip> and if you do \x -> (sqrt x, x `mod` 2)
2021-03-05 07:02:23 +0000 <mniip> that fixes x to be an Integral, and is a type error
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2021-03-05 09:27:31 +0000 <CrabMan> https://wiki.haskell.org/Typeclassopedia#Functor gives an exercise "Implement Functor instances for `Either e` and `((->) e).`" How do I hide the default implementation for in `Data.Either` so that ghci doesn't complain about duplicate instance declaration?
2021-03-05 09:28:18 +0000DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-05 09:28:42 +0000kunsttyv(~kunsttyv@ti0005q162-5102.bb.online.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-05 09:30:49 +0000kunsttyv(~kunsttyv@195.93.234.11)
2021-03-05 09:31:41 +0000 <merijn> CrabMan: Well, for stuff like either you can always define your own version "data MyEither a b = MyLeft a | MyRight b", but that doesn't work for (->)
2021-03-05 09:32:06 +0000 <merijn> I don't really know a good solution for (->) tbh
2021-03-05 09:32:21 +0000 <opqdonut> the functor instance for (->) isn't in scope by default though, right?
2021-03-05 09:32:35 +0000 <opqdonut> oh, it is these days
2021-03-05 09:32:45 +0000 <opqdonut> I'm pretty sure it used to not be
2021-03-05 09:33:34 +0000 <merijn> opqdonut: Pretty sure it always was?
2021-03-05 09:33:58 +0000 <merijn> opqdonut: Unless you're suggesting it was an orphan instance at some point, but that seems unlikely
2021-03-05 09:34:45 +0000cgadski(~textual@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-05 09:34:49 +0000 <opqdonut> yeah that's what I mean, but I'm probably mistaken
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2021-03-05 09:55:39 +0000 <Amico> !request
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2021-03-05 10:27:32 +0000Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
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2021-03-05 10:27:40 +0000 <CrabMan> Consider a kind data UnfunctorableType a. For any type a, it produces an empty type. Do I understand correctly that UnfunctorableType can't be made into a functor?
2021-03-05 10:30:36 +0000Ferdirand(~max@2001:4c78:2012:5000::2)
2021-03-05 10:30:36 +0000ixlun(~user@213.205.241.12)
2021-03-05 10:30:40 +0000 <CrabMan> * Consider the kind data UnfunctorableType a. For any type a, it produces an empty type. Do I understand correctly that UnfunctorableType can't be made into a functor?
2021-03-05 10:32:08 +0000gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-03-05 10:37:09 +0000 <Uniaika> does anyone know why Text has an offset field?
2021-03-05 10:41:02 +0000kibo(~kibo@51-171-46-249-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net) ()
2021-03-05 10:41:18 +0000 <[exa]> Uniaika: so that popping/pushing from the beginning doesn't take O(n) ?
2021-03-05 10:43:18 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d6d:9e4a:ef90:7639)
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2021-03-05 10:49:27 +0000thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202)
2021-03-05 10:49:37 +0000 <Uniaika> [exa]: ah, thanks :)
2021-03-05 10:53:27 +0000dcoutts_dcoutts
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2021-03-05 12:04:36 +0000alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.237)
2021-03-05 12:04:40 +0000 <tromp> int-e: the current March Ponder This is the kind of puzzle i love
2021-03-05 12:04:48 +0000pfurla(~pfurla@ool-182ed2e2.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-03-05 12:05:09 +0000sm2n(~sm2n@bras-base-hmtnon143hw-grc-15-70-54-78-219.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-05 12:05:39 +0000 <tromp> and love to solve in Haskell
2021-03-05 12:06:12 +0000bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-05 12:07:23 +0000 <int-e> Oh I haven't looked yet.
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2021-03-05 12:36:21 +0000 <tromp> just submitted my solution
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2021-03-05 13:57:09 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> Does anyone have a recommendation for lens tutorial that I can give to experienced programmers with only a small amount of functional programming knowledge?
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2021-03-05 14:00:04 +0000 <swarmcollective> tomjaguarpaw: I do not know of one directly, but Chiroptical did a video series going over the "Optics by Example" by Chris Penner ... Here's a list to the series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW_sOzxD_4gSyP92J-K4AwfR9Fvi6WCuV
2021-03-05 14:00:22 +0000hahalps(34e59cb0@52.229.156.176)
2021-03-05 14:00:24 +0000 <swarmcollective> (With permission and participation from the author)
2021-03-05 14:00:41 +0000_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-03-05 14:00:44 +0000 <SIben> tomjaguarpaw: I don't know if I can recommend that, but we have been building up to lenses in our Haskell seminar: https://nextjournal.com/uib-types/haskell-sessions/
2021-03-05 14:00:55 +0000 <SIben> I think it is digestible?
2021-03-05 14:00:59 +0000 <__monty__> Maybe the docs for one of the simpler lens libraries, like microlens or lens-simple?
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2021-03-05 14:08:07 +0000 <merijn> tomjaguarpaw: "none of them"? *ducks*
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2021-03-05 14:11:06 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> I'm trying to find one based on the optics abstract interface rather than van-Laarhoven lenses
2021-03-05 14:11:21 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> I will have a look around. Maybe I will write one :D
2021-03-05 14:12:08 +0000carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.13)
2021-03-05 14:13:14 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> I guess the problem with VL based libraries is that the implementation leaks everywhere so every tutorial has to address the implementation from very early on
2021-03-05 14:13:24 +0000 <[exa]> tomjaguarpaw: I kindof suspect that non-functional programmers won't get much excitement from the goodies there, like "traverse is a traversal lol!"
2021-03-05 14:13:38 +0000 <swarmcollective> tomjaguarpaw: For those like me lacking sufficient understanding, what would you say the key differences are?
2021-03-05 14:13:53 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> swarmcollective: Do you mean between optics and lens?
2021-03-05 14:13:57 +0000agander(~agander@193.46.28.55) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-05 14:14:16 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> [exa]: They don't need to have excitement, they just have to be able to understand what I wrote :D
2021-03-05 14:14:39 +0000 <[exa]> tomjaguarpaw: anyway if you don't want to overwhelm them by functors, it's best to go for many useful examples first, lenses are much more intuitive from that side
2021-03-05 14:14:52 +0000 <swarmcollective> Referring to your statement: "optics abstract interface rather than van-Laarhoven lenses", which I guess means "between optics and lens". :)
2021-03-05 14:15:47 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> swarmcollective: In optics a lens is an abstract type rather than a function '(a -> f b) -> s -> f t' so the error messages are much better
2021-03-05 14:16:04 +0000mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 14:16:25 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> The abstract type is a bit less flexible, but a lot more easy to use, in my opinion
2021-03-05 14:16:37 +0000 <swarmcollective> tomjaguarpaw: thank you. Optics are on my to-do / to-learn list for this year.
2021-03-05 14:18:24 +0000 <tomjaguarpaw> Cool. I recommend starting with optics rather than lens. There's a nice introduction (but not tutorial) at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optics-0.4/docs/Optics.html
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2021-03-05 14:23:27 +0000 <swarmcollective> tomjaguarpaw: I've had the Subtype Hierarchy image from that page bookmarked for some time. :) Thanks for the link to the page itself! It is a good resource.
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2021-03-05 14:32:03 +0000 <merijn> [exa]: tbh, I don't get much excitement from that and I *am* a functional programmer ;)
2021-03-05 14:32:28 +0000 <merijn> I think I have like 5 lines of (micro)lens code and that's mostly view/set on existing APIs :p
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2021-03-05 14:47:45 +0000ADG1089__(~aditya@106.214.235.119)
2021-03-05 14:47:46 +0000zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-03-05 14:48:14 +0000gitgood(~gitgood@82-132-218-13.dab.02.net)
2021-03-05 14:51:44 +0000 <ADG1089__> I am trying to find \{x\mid x\in\Pi_iX_i, x\le L\} given that AB=\{ab\mid a\in A,b\in B\} . Currently I am using recusive function that runs in 33 sec for L=10^12 and X1, X2, ... X543 for |Xi| = 2. I tried to profile it and it spends 35% time in GC
2021-03-05 14:52:05 +0000 <merijn> ADG1089__: Code? :p
2021-03-05 14:54:43 +0000bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2021-03-05 14:55:44 +0000 <ADG1089__> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/58Gtzt5r
2021-03-05 14:58:13 +0000 <[exa]> ADG1089__: are you sure that you can filter it by factorizations when your integers are not a finite field?
2021-03-05 14:58:42 +0000 <[exa]> (or are they?)
2021-03-05 14:59:39 +0000 <[exa]> btw I guess this is euler problem 516 right?
2021-03-05 14:59:41 +0000ixlun(~user@213.205.241.12) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-05 14:59:49 +0000bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 15:00:48 +0000 <ADG1089__> yeah
2021-03-05 15:01:04 +0000 <[exa]> (in that case the 2^32 is probably not needed directly in the code, but whatevs)
2021-03-05 15:02:00 +0000 <ADG1089__> i am guessing i can start by making fold strict
2021-03-05 15:03:38 +0000 <[exa]> I'm guessing that this might be more of a math task than a programming task
2021-03-05 15:04:21 +0000 <ADG1089__> yeah let me try binary search and prefix sums
2021-03-05 15:04:29 +0000 <ADG1089__> @t foldl1'
2021-03-05 15:04:29 +0000 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? .
2021-03-05 15:05:03 +0000 <swarmcollective> :t foldl1'
2021-03-05 15:05:04 +0000 <lambdabot> (a -> a -> a) -> [a] -> a
2021-03-05 15:06:49 +0000 <[exa]> ADG1089__: what about using the multiplicative formula for φ(n) (first one on wiki) and just summing that up straight up?
2021-03-05 15:06:50 +0000Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-03-05 15:07:23 +0000hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:73f8:36f6:d6d6:24a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 15:11:26 +0000Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-03-05 15:15:01 +0000 <ADG1089__> [exa]: I'm not sure how infinite field creates a problem? I am actually doing phi inverse of elements in hamming
2021-03-05 15:15:27 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d6d:9e4a:ef90:7639)
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2021-03-05 15:16:49 +0000 <[exa]> ADG1089__: I thought you were actually computing over integers modulo something, where the multiplications would kindof always overflow to become <10^12
2021-03-05 15:17:00 +0000 <[exa]> which is not valid, sorry :]
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2021-03-05 15:46:44 +0000Pressyware[m](pressyware@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cypbqfareuipwdxl)
2021-03-05 15:49:19 +0000 <ADG1089__> I'm only upset that there is a <0.06 sec version
2021-03-05 15:49:33 +0000 <ADG1089__> and I am still stuck at 32 sec
2021-03-05 15:49:42 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2021-03-05 15:50:54 +0000 <merijn> ADG1089__: I see you using foldl1
2021-03-05 15:51:00 +0000 <merijn> Pretty sure that isn't strict
2021-03-05 15:51:25 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d6d:9e4a:ef90:7639)
2021-03-05 15:52:08 +0000 <merijn> ADG1089__: What happens if you replace it with: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/Data-List.html#v:foldl1-39- ?
2021-03-05 15:53:37 +0000 <maerwald> am I the only one constantly getting confused by the use of :: for kind signatures?
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2021-03-05 15:54:58 +0000 <ADG1089__> merijn: 1-2 sec improvement
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2021-03-05 16:14:45 +0000loyon(loyonmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pibcmanmmawjsdlg)
2021-03-05 16:16:24 +0000 <loyon> I'm looking for an auto-formatter, I see there is different one around, which one do you use and would recommend?
2021-03-05 16:17:07 +0000 <Uniaika> I use stylish-haskell, very satisfied with it
2021-03-05 16:17:13 +0000Waifod(~Waifod@91.106.123.186) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-05 16:17:21 +0000 <maerwald> I don't like any of them... brittany looked most promising, but it has a habit of doing excessive newlining... ormolu is just awful
2021-03-05 16:17:29 +0000Waifod(~Waifod@91.106.123.186)
2021-03-05 16:17:58 +0000 <shapr> I like ormolu because it formats the most things in the most opinionated way
2021-03-05 16:18:12 +0000 <shapr> and I really just want a formatter
2021-03-05 16:18:38 +0000 <shapr> The formatters in other languages often don't handle spaces inside parens and all sorts of other picky details, I want *everything* formatted
2021-03-05 16:19:31 +0000ADG1089__(~aditya@106.214.235.119)
2021-03-05 16:20:21 +0000 <maerwald> I found formatters in other languages generally work better than in haskell
2021-03-05 16:20:32 +0000 <maerwald> haskell formatters can't even deal correctly with CPP
2021-03-05 16:20:36 +0000 <loyon> thanks everyone, I'm really looking for something that format everything so ormolu is what I will try first. If it's too much stylish-haskell seems to offer a reasonable middle ground.
2021-03-05 16:20:46 +0000 <lortabac> one thing I dislike about ormolu is that it doesn't add newlines if there isn't at least one already
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2021-03-05 16:21:40 +0000 <lortabac> sometimes I want to write a long expression on one line and let the formatter do everything, but with ormolu I have to add at least one random newline to trigger proper formatting
2021-03-05 16:21:53 +0000 <lortabac> otherwise it would leave everything on one line
2021-03-05 16:22:00 +0000frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.219.166)
2021-03-05 16:23:07 +0000 <loyon> that is very good to know lortabac , because that's exactly what I was hoping for haha, to break my endless lines automagically.
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2021-03-05 16:26:09 +0000 <lortabac> loyon: then brittany might be a better choice
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2021-03-05 17:51:25 +0000veritas(~veritas@athedsl-333140.home.otenet.gr)
2021-03-05 17:51:29 +0000 <veritas> hi all
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2021-03-05 17:54:55 +0000 <demon_in_a_jar> hi all
2021-03-05 17:55:14 +0000 <demon_in_a_jar> is there any modern take to multirec ?
2021-03-05 17:57:40 +0000crobbins_(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:bd85:de5e:f720:2e32)
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2021-03-05 18:05:47 +0000 <Wezl> GHC segfaults whenever I use it, hugs is having build problems, what alternative compilers are there?
2021-03-05 18:07:01 +0000augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:fb9d:9a6c:9f90:5e45)
2021-03-05 18:08:17 +0000danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:10:45 +0000 <monochrom> https://repl.it/languages/haskell
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2021-03-05 18:10:56 +0000DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 18:10:59 +0000 <yushyin> none of relevance
2021-03-05 18:11:09 +0000 <monochrom> https://repl.it/languages lists Haskell under "Practical". It's official now. \∩/
2021-03-05 18:11:22 +0000 <yushyin> yeah!
2021-03-05 18:12:21 +0000ADG1089(~adg1089@171.76.153.167)
2021-03-05 18:12:45 +0000 <Wezl> but it's not as "Popular" as scheme :)
2021-03-05 18:12:45 +0000ADG1089(~adg1089@171.76.153.167) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 18:13:22 +0000ADG1089(~adg1089@171.76.153.167)
2021-03-05 18:13:30 +0000 <swarmcollective> Wezl: You might want to consider running GHC from within a Docker container. If the container becomes corrupt for any reason, you just rebuild it. There is a solid base container with GHC and Cabal already installed.
2021-03-05 18:13:47 +0000x0oytF(~user@4-13-107-185.static.kviknet.dk)
2021-03-05 18:13:52 +0000 <swarmcollective> https://hub.docker.com/_/haskell/
2021-03-05 18:14:10 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-05 18:14:22 +0000redmp(~redmp@172.58.35.84)
2021-03-05 18:14:24 +0000 <monochrom> Hrm! I should maybe save that docker URL and let my students know next time I teach them.
2021-03-05 18:14:33 +0000 <Wezl> my package manager doesn't have docker and I'd rather build GHC than docker
2021-03-05 18:15:06 +0000stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-05 18:15:19 +0000 <monochrom> But what is the _ doing there? :)
2021-03-05 18:15:34 +0000 <c_wraith> Wezl: what platform are you on? It seems odd that none of the pre-compiled GHCs will work
2021-03-05 18:16:11 +0000 <Wezl> c_wraith: I'm on a chromebook with termux and GHC is in the unstable repo
2021-03-05 18:16:18 +0000 <c_wraith> ah, that's a tough one
2021-03-05 18:16:33 +0000 <swarmcollective> monochrom: I hope other editors provide the same capability soon, but the remote container plugin for vscode even allows you to keep your editor and code on your hard drive and run only the Haskell tools from within the container. That makes it very easy to use (and to switch between versions of GHC + Cabal).
2021-03-05 18:17:30 +0000 <monochrom> That's nice to know swarmcollective, thanks. My students may find it even more important. They like vscode.
2021-03-05 18:17:33 +0000 <swarmcollective> Wezl: I also use GHC on a Chromebook, but I am able to use Docker from the Debian instance provided by ChromeOS.
2021-03-05 18:19:02 +0000 <swarmcollective> monochrom: I didn't come up with this idea, only updated it to use "official" Haskell container, but here is a convenient .devcontainer configuration for use with vscode. https://github.com/calledtoconstruct/haskell-hls-devcontainer
2021-03-05 18:19:22 +0000x0oytF(~user@4-13-107-185.static.kviknet.dk) ("haskell")
2021-03-05 18:20:08 +0000swarmcollectivegoes to search "turmux" :D
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2021-03-05 18:22:50 +0000swarmcollectiveis now wondering if it is possible to use Google Cloud Shell as the remote container. Hmmmm...
2021-03-05 18:23:20 +0000fendor(~fendor@77.119.128.153.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-03-05 18:27:20 +0000Benzi-Junior(~BenziJuni@88-149-67-143.du.xdsl.is)
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2021-03-05 18:36:51 +0000 <bgamari> Wezl, GHC segfaults?
2021-03-05 18:37:00 +0000 <bgamari> Wezl, which platform are you on?
2021-03-05 18:37:18 +0000kunsttyv(~kunsttyv@ti0005q162-5102.bb.online.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:37:31 +0000 <geekosaur> chromebook
2021-03-05 18:37:32 +0000 <monochrom> chromebook
2021-03-05 18:41:05 +0000curiousgay_(~quassel@178.217.208.8)
2021-03-05 18:41:05 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-03-05 18:41:49 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.208.86) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:42:01 +0000curiousgay_(~quassel@178.217.208.8) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 18:42:05 +0000 <bgamari> oh dear
2021-03-05 18:42:55 +0000 <Wezl> https://0x0.st/-P2t.png
2021-03-05 18:42:57 +0000bgamarihas no idea constraints chromebooks place on user space
2021-03-05 18:43:09 +0000notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-03-05 18:43:12 +0000 <bgamari> Wezl, do you have gdb?
2021-03-05 18:43:16 +0000 <Wezl> is that maybe it?
2021-03-05 18:43:28 +0000 <Wezl> bgamari: no
2021-03-05 18:43:31 +0000rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-05 18:43:35 +0000 <bgamari> hmm
2021-03-05 18:44:34 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-05 18:44:55 +0000 <geekosaur> oh dear
2021-03-05 18:45:02 +0000jrqc(~rofl@96.78.87.197)
2021-03-05 18:45:03 +0000 <Wezl> ok now I have gdb
2021-03-05 18:45:24 +0000geekosaurjust looked up termux, it looks painful to get a full environment for
2021-03-05 18:45:40 +0000regakakobigman(~regakakob@c-73-174-187-176.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: regakakobigman)
2021-03-05 18:45:55 +0000 <bgamari> Wezl, what happens if you try running ghc under gdb?
2021-03-05 18:45:58 +0000Wezlthinks that's because the full environment takes way too much memory
2021-03-05 18:45:58 +0000 <bgamari> something like
2021-03-05 18:46:00 +0000crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:ca9:f9fe:ff85:a356)
2021-03-05 18:46:36 +0000 <geekosaur> well no, termux isn't a full linux distribution so you'd be using the android stock libc instead of glibc or even musl
2021-03-05 18:47:49 +0000 <monochrom> You may be better off trouble-shooting building Hugs. GHC is going to be a resource hog even after you get it to run.
2021-03-05 18:48:40 +0000peasynt(~quassel@pool-173-76-103-124.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-03-05 18:48:52 +0000 <monochrom> Either that or repl.it
2021-03-05 18:49:05 +0000 <Wezl> I'll try Hugs again
2021-03-05 18:49:13 +0000 <bgamari> monochrom, do you know concretely what might be going wrong here?
2021-03-05 18:49:16 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 18:49:25 +0000 <Wezl> (cuz I have no idea how to use gdb)
2021-03-05 18:49:27 +0000 <bgamari> resource hog or not, I would have expected this to work
2021-03-05 18:49:47 +0000 <monochrom> No. But if you don't have space for glibc you don't have space for GHC.
2021-03-05 18:50:23 +0000 <monochrom> Well, you "have", but it will be able to do very little.
2021-03-05 18:51:01 +0000 <monochrom> The downside of Hugs is it's too old, both language-wise and library-wise, to be sure.
2021-03-05 18:51:06 +0000ADG1089(~adg1089@171.76.153.167) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 18:51:35 +0000 <Wezl> maybe I just shouldn't use haskell ::/
2021-03-05 18:52:52 +0000 <heck-to-the-gnom> chromebooks, lol
2021-03-05 18:53:34 +0000 <monochrom> I would think that along the spirit of chromebook you would be doing all programming on repl.it
2021-03-05 18:53:57 +0000 <monochrom> s/along/in/ # I hate English
2021-03-05 18:53:57 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.217.47)
2021-03-05 18:54:09 +0000 <Rembane> monochrom: Use all prepositions just to be sure.
2021-03-05 18:54:30 +0000 <Wezl> no, I'm trying to *avoid* the limitations of the spirit of chromebook
2021-03-05 18:54:33 +0000raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:54:34 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44) ("you should try concurr, it's a new functional language still under development codeberg.org/Wezl/concurr")
2021-03-05 18:54:43 +0000geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:55:01 +0000raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-05 18:56:36 +0000 <bgamari> oh, there he goes
2021-03-05 18:57:02 +0000 <bgamari> I would have been happy to walk him through gdb
2021-03-05 18:57:17 +0000 <bgamari> I wonder if there's an aspace rlimit or some such sillyness
2021-03-05 18:58:20 +0000 <ephemient> I have a Chromebook. if you are able to use their Linux (beta) container, it is just like GHC in any other typical Debian distro
2021-03-05 18:58:52 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44)
2021-03-05 18:58:59 +0000Waifod(~Waifod@91.106.123.186) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 18:59:09 +0000 <Wezl> it's extremely amusing to see what people say when you leave
2021-03-05 18:59:28 +0000 <ephemient> I have a Chromebook. if you are able to use their Linux (beta) container, it is just like GHC in any other typical Debian distro
2021-03-05 18:59:28 +0000 <ephemient> Wezl was using Termux, though. that's an Android app that uses various LD_PRELOAD tricks to run a "Linux" distro.
2021-03-05 18:59:57 +0000 <ephemient> it is subject to a lot more restrictions than a Linux container
2021-03-05 19:00:20 +0000Waifod(Waifod@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/waifod)
2021-03-05 19:00:53 +0000uberj(~uberj@unaffiliated/uberj) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-05 19:02:04 +0000 <swarmcollective> Haskell development works well on Pixel Slate. That's what I used for the first 13 days of Advent of Code this year.
2021-03-05 19:02:35 +0000 <ephemient> I did my AoC on a HP Chromebook x360 last year and a Pixel Slate this year. no problems at all
2021-03-05 19:02:48 +0000 <monochrom> On the 14th day your love gifted you with a Ryzen PC? :)
2021-03-05 19:03:30 +0000berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-05 19:04:10 +0000 <swarmcollective> I'm interested to hear if you get GHC working via Termux, Wezl.
2021-03-05 19:04:38 +0000jrqc(~rofl@96.78.87.197)
2021-03-05 19:04:46 +0000 <swarmcollective> There are still a lot of chromebook machines that do not have the linux container support.
2021-03-05 19:04:50 +0000berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 19:05:35 +0000 <swarmcollective> monochrom: lol, no. If I remember correctly, I started using the Pixel Slate for a web crawler.
2021-03-05 19:06:13 +0000 <ClaudiusMaximus> I think I got GHC working in Debian in UserLAnd from f-Droid on an Android tablet (without root)
2021-03-05 19:06:53 +0000mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-05 19:08:10 +0000andreas31(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
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2021-03-05 19:10:18 +0000 <swarmcollective> It might be possible to run the remote container on Cloud Shell, if I can get ssh listening on a port opened via the web-preview feature. I suspect they try to prevent that, though.
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2021-03-05 20:05:27 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-03-05 20:13:18 +0000Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene)
2021-03-05 20:13:26 +0000hyperisco(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Quit: Curry, you fools!)
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2021-03-05 20:19:23 +0000 <Wezl> here are my errors for hugs https://0x0.st/-P_A.txt
2021-03-05 20:19:34 +0000coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-03-05 20:19:44 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-05 20:20:20 +0000 <Wezl> probably because it's writing to a /tmp file, which isn't writable and maybe not even existent
2021-03-05 20:20:34 +0000aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:176:cad2:9667:c008)
2021-03-05 20:20:42 +0000malumore(~malumore@151.62.119.233)
2021-03-05 20:20:59 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:21:28 +0000 <Wezl> (and I don't have enough experience with building to know how to change where it writes)
2021-03-05 20:21:44 +0000 <Wezl> but I'll try
2021-03-05 20:21:49 +0000ixlun(~user@213.205.241.12)
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2021-03-05 20:26:51 +0000Guest_24(dfbc579a@223.188.87.154)
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2021-03-05 20:27:27 +0000 <ADG1089__> did I do unboxing Int64 -> Int64# correctly here: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/avzjxQYC ? What am I missing? compiler is complaining.
2021-03-05 20:27:29 +0000 <Guest_24> hey guys, i use clojure with emacs and now getting started with haskell was wondering if someone has a working emacs setup
2021-03-05 20:27:58 +0000__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.196) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:28:01 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: what's the compiler error?
2021-03-05 20:28:35 +0000 <ADG1089__> (Operator applied to too few arguments: #)
2021-03-05 20:28:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> Wezl: you might try saying 'export TMPDIR=/some/writable/path'
2021-03-05 20:28:45 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: {-# LANGUAGE MagicHash #-} ?
2021-03-05 20:29:23 +0000crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:4511:efcb:5dfa:3325) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:29:30 +0000mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan)
2021-03-05 20:30:14 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-03-05 20:30:14 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 20:30:29 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44)
2021-03-05 20:30:31 +0000 <Wezl> tomsmeding: it's already set to one
2021-03-05 20:32:33 +0000mayleesia(4db762ff@x4db762ff.dyn.telefonica.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-05 20:32:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> Wezl: might try setting TMP or TEMP instead, but if it doesn't pick those up either, I'm afraid you'd have to dive into the build system to change what it does
2021-03-05 20:32:58 +0000myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:33:07 +0000 <Wezl> hopefully there's a simple ./configure option
2021-03-05 20:33:11 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: can't define [Int64#] . I think [] don't work with unlifted type, maybe I have to use UList
2021-03-05 20:33:40 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: similarly you might have issues with Map on unlifted types, I think
2021-03-05 20:35:03 +0000apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:35:21 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:36:26 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: what do you suggest? how can i unbox my Int64 usage?
2021-03-05 20:36:27 +0000stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-05 20:36:39 +0000 <tomsmeding> are you sure you need to?
2021-03-05 20:37:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> to ask the eternal question: what in the profiling report suggested that unboxing might be a good idea? :)
2021-03-05 20:37:48 +0000 <tomsmeding> (which implicitly asks: did you profile?)
2021-03-05 20:38:22 +0000 <mikoto-chan> Do cabal commands that support sandboxing still use the new-* prefix?
2021-03-05 20:39:17 +0000 <dcoutts> mikoto-chan: do you mean the new project style or the old sandboxing style?
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2021-03-05 20:39:42 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44)
2021-03-05 20:40:45 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-05 20:41:32 +0000 <mikoto-chan> dcoutts: I'm merely a beginner that read in a book that cabal will be sandboxing and caching build dependencies in the future for projects to prevent version clashes :(
2021-03-05 20:41:56 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: was going through steps as mentioned here: https://wiki.haskell.org/Performance/GHC
2021-03-05 20:42:02 +0000ixlun(~user@213.205.241.12) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 20:42:09 +0000 <dcoutts> mikoto-chan: then it probably means project support, and yes the future has arrived and that is the default now in cabal-install version 3+
2021-03-05 20:43:09 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: ah I see
2021-03-05 20:43:11 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: GC was negligible, it's only 2 modules, and the third things was unboxed types
2021-03-05 20:43:54 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: how many things are in that Map? I think it's important to be aware that a Map will be a tree of boxes anyway
2021-03-05 20:44:17 +0000 <tomsmeding> so the leaves may very well be unboxed -- if that's even supported -- but that won't really matter if the rest of the tree is boxed :p
2021-03-05 20:44:18 +0000ixlun(~user@213.205.241.12)
2021-03-05 20:44:24 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: 3429
2021-03-05 20:44:33 +0000andrybak(~andrybak@2001:a61:245b:4401:6893:7a82:3e23:36db) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:44:37 +0000 <geekosaur> tbh if you're using lists that may itself be an issue, depending on what you're doing. in particular they are linked lists, not arrays/vectors, and indexing will be very slow
2021-03-05 20:45:00 +0000ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus) (Quit: ->)
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2021-03-05 20:45:30 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: you might want to replace that Map with a Data.Vector.Unboxed, sort that thing, and use explicit binary search on the vector instead of Map.lookupLE
2021-03-05 20:45:39 +0000__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.58.196)
2021-03-05 20:45:43 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: let me try
2021-03-05 20:46:35 +0000 <tomsmeding> then you're not using an intermediate Map, which is like a big fat hammer among breadcrumbs if you're trying to shave off the last bits of runtime using unboxed types
2021-03-05 20:46:37 +0000crobbins(~crobbins@2600:1700:48eb:8490:a9f2:bb00:baa5:51b1)
2021-03-05 20:46:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> okay unboxing may have significant effects in some cases, true
2021-03-05 20:47:18 +0000 <tomsmeding> but if you go unboxed, you need to unbox everything for it to make sense
2021-03-05 20:48:04 +0000romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-05 20:49:30 +0000romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt) (Client Quit)
2021-03-05 20:49:32 +0000 <monochrom> "go (x : xs) prod = go xs prod +? (if prod <= lim `div` x then go xs (prod * x) else 0)" is a space-expensive algorithm and it is not because some Int64s are boxed.
2021-03-05 20:49:40 +0000myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
2021-03-05 20:50:06 +0000 <monochrom> You're looking at basically "f x = f (x-1) + f(x-2)"
2021-03-05 20:51:34 +0000 <monochrom> I wouldn't be surprised that it is an expoential-time algorithm, too.
2021-03-05 20:51:45 +0000 <monochrom> s/that/if/
2021-03-05 20:52:26 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:54:07 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-03-05 20:54:11 +0000 <ADG1089__> monochrom: maximum depth of recursion is 543. Yeah it's exponential, but I reversed hps so lot of values got filtered and practically it is really fast. Just reversing brought the time from 14 sec to 1.5 sec
2021-03-05 20:54:17 +0000 <ADG1089__> I'm trying to reach <1sec
2021-03-05 20:54:45 +0000 <monochrom> What is the current running time?
2021-03-05 20:54:53 +0000 <mikoto-chan> Hmmm ... when I install a package with 'cabal install foo' I don't see it appear in 'ghci' but when I do 'cabal new-install foo' and 'cabal v2-repl' everything is working fine ... is this normal with ghcup?
2021-03-05 20:55:11 +0000 <tomsmeding> mikoto-chan: what's your cabal version?
2021-03-05 20:55:59 +0000 <maerwald> mikoto-chan: ghci knows nothing about the cabal store
2021-03-05 20:56:03 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-05 20:56:26 +0000 <mikoto-chan> 3.2, latest and greates
2021-03-05 20:56:28 +0000 <mikoto-chan> t
2021-03-05 20:56:32 +0000 <monochrom> Also "cabal install foo" means exe only.
2021-03-05 20:56:39 +0000 <sclv> you shouldn't really be using `cabal install` in the new workflow
2021-03-05 20:56:50 +0000 <mikoto-chan> sclv: How do I undo the damage?
2021-03-05 20:56:55 +0000andrybak(~andrybak@2001:a61:245b:4401:6893:7a82:3e23:36db)
2021-03-05 20:57:08 +0000 <sclv> don't worry about it, just don't use it :-)
2021-03-05 20:57:15 +0000hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:303:be6a:2a48:3133) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:57:18 +0000 <mikoto-chan> But I already installed something
2021-03-05 20:57:22 +0000 <tomsmeding> it didn't do damage, it just took some extra disk space
2021-03-05 20:57:26 +0000 <monochrom> If foo has no exe, you didn't do any damage.
2021-03-05 20:57:29 +0000 <mikoto-chan> Ouch
2021-03-05 20:57:38 +0000hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:68e3:9c1f:887c:d5b3) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:57:58 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-05 20:58:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> mikoto-chan: the idea with using new cabal is that you always work within a project, with a .cabal file that lists dependencies
2021-03-05 20:58:32 +0000_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 20:58:57 +0000 <mikoto-chan> tomsmeding: Is cabal.readthedocs.io up to date? There's a bunch of tutorials that still use the old commands
2021-03-05 20:59:05 +0000 <mikoto-chan> Thanks for the help by the way
2021-03-05 20:59:05 +0000 <monochrom> Yes.
2021-03-05 20:59:15 +0000hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:8dfa:c309:9698:bf3a)
2021-03-05 20:59:25 +0000 <monochrom> Also as of a week ago, the latest and greatest and recommended is 3.4.
2021-03-05 20:59:45 +0000 <monochrom> Although, 3.2 is not very far behind 3.4.
2021-03-05 21:00:10 +0000 <mikoto-chan> How do you go about updating ghcup?
2021-03-05 21:00:14 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-05 21:00:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> mikoto-chan: also, by the way, if you really want to not work in a project, there are workarounds like described in https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-February/133425.html and other emails in the same thread (see related posts in the thread overview: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2021-February/thread.html)
2021-03-05 21:00:34 +0000 <tomsmeding> but please work in a project :)
2021-03-05 21:00:53 +0000 <tomsmeding> mikoto-chan: ghcup upgrade; ghcup install cabal 3.4.0.0; ghcup rm cabal 3.2.0.0
2021-03-05 21:00:55 +0000hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:303:be6a:2a48:3133)
2021-03-05 21:00:58 +0000 <tomsmeding> but note there is also 'ghcup tui'
2021-03-05 21:01:09 +0000 <mikoto-chan> tomsmeding: *I never made any projects I'm just learning Cabal :^)*
2021-03-05 21:01:18 +0000iomonad(~iomonad@unaffiliated/iomonad)
2021-03-05 21:01:35 +0000 <geekosaur> if you want to learn cabal you should learn working in projects
2021-03-05 21:02:17 +0000 <sclv> the point of cabal is to work with projects. on its own it doesn't do much
2021-03-05 21:03:13 +0000 <sclv> if you want to just pop open a repl with some libs in scope outside of a project, do sometihng like "cabal3 repl --build-depends=text"
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2021-03-05 21:03:53 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: The Vector thing actually made it more worse
2021-03-05 21:04:26 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: what's the resulting code?
2021-03-05 21:04:34 +0000mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Quit: mikoto-chan)
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2021-03-05 21:14:31 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/wYscnaVA
2021-03-05 21:15:00 +0000Wezl(~u0_a61@2601:14b:4400:8850:20c6:4fff:fe76:8f44)
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2021-03-05 21:15:02 +0000ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2021-03-05 21:16:01 +0000 <ADG1089__> ./bin/Problem516 1.37s user 0.03s system 100% cpu 1.397 total
2021-03-05 21:16:38 +0000 <ADG1089__> with Data.Map.Strict it's ./bin/Problem516 0.96s user 0.01s system 99% cpu 0.976 total
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2021-03-05 21:18:03 +0000hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:329:3cb3:710a:cc61)
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2021-03-05 21:21:12 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: what if you give floorKeysVal an additional argument, the "default zero result", which you return instead of 0 in the 'lo > hi' case?
2021-03-05 21:21:42 +0000 <tomsmeding> you pass 0 to that argument in the call in 'go', and you pass midVal to that argument in the recursive call in floorKeysVal
2021-03-05 21:21:50 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-05 21:21:51 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-05 21:21:57 +0000 <tomsmeding> that should make floorKeysVal tail-recursive, which should help (don't know how much)
2021-03-05 21:22:21 +0000 <tomsmeding> (right now it's not because the conditional 'if rightval == 0' still needs to run after the recursive call completes)
2021-03-05 21:23:54 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-05 21:24:03 +0000chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:58cb)
2021-03-05 21:24:41 +0000 <Wezl> I found the file with hardcoded /tmp was hugsdir/libraries/tools/make_buildsomething and edited it, here goes...
2021-03-05 21:25:27 +0000 <tomsmeding> Wezl: Godspeed!
2021-03-05 21:25:50 +0000 <Wezl> something was erroring in there, it might not be that simple...
2021-03-05 21:26:06 +0000tromp(~tromp@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl)
2021-03-05 21:26:40 +0000matryoshka`(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-03-05 21:26:43 +0000matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-05 21:26:56 +0000 <ADG1089__> tomsmeding: ./bin/Problem516 1.37s user 0.02s system 99% cpu 1.387 total . nvm I'll try to find some other way myself too.
2021-03-05 21:27:02 +0000 <ADG1089__> thanks for the help tho
2021-03-05 21:27:27 +0000rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-05 21:27:27 +0000jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-05 21:27:36 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: lol bummer maybe ghc figured that out automatically already
2021-03-05 21:28:47 +0000 <tomsmeding> ADG1089__: random idea: Data.HashMap.Strict from unordered-containeres or Data.IntMap.Strict from containers
2021-03-05 21:28:55 +0000 <tomsmeding> *unordered-containers
2021-03-05 21:29:23 +0000 <tomsmeding> (oh the hashmap will obviously not work on a lookupLE, ignore that one)
2021-03-05 21:30:34 +0000carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.13) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-05 21:32:28 +0000 <Wezl> looks like my errors were unrelated from what I did, here goes again...
2021-03-05 21:33:35 +0000 <ADG1089__> is -fllvm aleays helpful?
2021-03-05 21:33:56 +0000 <sclv> no
2021-03-05 21:34:00 +0000 <sclv> depends on the code
2021-03-05 21:35:21 +0000 <Wezl> there's an astonishing amount of errors from the cpp on haskell code
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2021-03-05 22:07:28 +0000f-a(~f-a@151.34.134.235)
2021-03-05 22:08:35 +0000Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-03-05 22:09:32 +0000 <f-a> I am getting this «could not resolve dependencies» error while `cabal install`ing a package http://paste.debian.net/hidden/cd2a222a/ but when I `cabal get` and then `cabal build` it everything is ok
2021-03-05 22:09:36 +0000 <f-a> what is happening?
2021-03-05 22:10:04 +0000 <f-a> I see his selecting/rejecting ghcs but I do not understand why
2021-03-05 22:10:17 +0000 <f-a> s/his/caba is
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2021-03-05 22:10:49 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-05 22:11:05 +0000 <f-a> ghc 8.8.3, cabal-install 3.0.0.0
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2021-03-05 23:23:32 +0000 <viluon> hi, possibly stupid, beginner question: I'm building `concat` with `stack` and it crashes when compiling `concat-inline`, apparently GHC tries to parse a comment as Haddock docs? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3wfD3cCh
2021-03-05 23:23:45 +0000Sonderblade(~helloman@94.191.136.7.mobile.tre.se)
2021-03-05 23:24:56 +0000 <glguy> viluon: see if you can tell stack not to build documentation
2021-03-05 23:25:37 +0000dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
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2021-03-05 23:26:23 +0000conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-05 23:26:38 +0000 <viluon> glguy: thanks! umm, any clues on how to do that?
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2021-03-05 23:33:08 +0000 <nshepperd> ooh, cabal-env looks similar to my cabbage, interesting
2021-03-05 23:33:42 +0000ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
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2021-03-05 23:45:24 +0000 <nshepperd> seems to have saner handling of local packages
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