IRCBrowse

2021/01/03

2021-01-03 00:00:41 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-01-03 00:01:50 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-01-03 00:01:59 +0100 <shinobi> Is that why this works: (\x y z -> [x,y,z]) <$> (+3) <*> (*2) <*> (/2) $ 5
2021-01-03 00:02:12 +0100 <shinobi> I wouldn't expect to apply a 5 to a list.
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2021-01-03 00:08:51 +0100 <shinobi> ah, but fmap = (.) for ((->) r) so I think that makes more sense.
2021-01-03 00:08:56 +0100 <shinobi> Thank you all
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2021-01-03 00:33:12 +0100 <remexre> how should one set up version bounds for base? is it actually fine to just do base >=$lowest_version_i_tested_with && <5 ?
2021-01-03 00:34:18 +0100 <yushyin> seems alright to me
2021-01-03 00:34:25 +0100 <boxscape> any good reason to define unfix separately like this rather than as a record selector? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes-5.1.3/docs/src/Data.Functor.Foldable.html#Fix
2021-01-03 00:36:06 +0100bartholin(~bartholin@unaffiliated/bartholin) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-03 00:36:08 +0100 <boxscape> hm I guess one reason might be it shows up as a separate thing in haddock
2021-01-03 00:36:20 +0100 <Rembane> boxscape: Can you do it as a record selector?
2021-01-03 00:36:36 +0100 <Rembane> boxscape: ...or do things go boom due to the recursive nature of it?
2021-01-03 00:36:57 +0100 <boxscape> seems to work
2021-01-03 00:37:08 +0100 <boxscape> % newtype Fix f = Fix { unFix :: f (Fix f) }
2021-01-03 00:37:09 +0100 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-01-03 00:37:24 +0100 <Rembane> boxscape: Yeah, I had a stupid happen to me: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-fix-0.3.0/docs/src/Data.Fix.html#Fix <- another example of it working
2021-01-03 00:38:04 +0100 <boxscape> hm I guess if data-fix does it the other way that at least implies that there's no deeper reason not to do it
2021-01-03 00:38:11 +0100fresheyeball(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-01-03 00:38:24 +0100 <Rembane> Indeed, or there is one, but undocumented.
2021-01-03 00:39:41 +0100 <lyxia> yeah there's very little difference. another one is the Show instance but for Fix it's handwritten anyway.
2021-01-03 00:39:57 +0100 <Squarism> Im in a situation where i would like to have a list containing different types, so I feel my only two options are wrapping the different types in a sum type or ExistentialQuantification. Are there more routes?
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2021-01-03 00:42:53 +0100 <Rembane> Squarism: you could use Dynamic too, but why do you need to put different types in one list?
2021-01-03 00:43:22 +0100 <boxscape> Squarism heterogeneous lists like this exist, too, though not sure what the canonical package would be https://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-lens-core-2.0.0.0/docs/Data-Generics-Product-Internal-…
2021-01-03 00:43:49 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ccd9:595d:1bc6:b87f) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 00:46:33 +0100 <EvanR> an ordered data structure which supports append, retrieve at cursor, move cursor by an increment, including seek to beginning or end, update at cursor, and delete at the cursor?
2021-01-03 00:46:52 +0100 <EvanR> i think the seeking is what makes a zipper not work
2021-01-03 00:47:00 +0100 <EvanR> or not the best
2021-01-03 00:48:20 +0100 <Squarism> Rembane, The library user would want an easy representation of a datatype representing "a process". The steps in the process can have minor differences. Ie [V1,V2,V2,V5].
2021-01-03 00:48:50 +0100 <Squarism> an ordered repitition of an abstract concept so to speak.
2021-01-03 00:50:39 +0100 <Squarism> making a sum type for all possible versions would not scale well with many versions. =/
2021-01-03 00:51:02 +0100 <Squarism> boxscape, Thanks. Ill check that out
2021-01-03 00:51:25 +0100 <Rembane> Squarism: That's cool. I wonder if the vinyl package is a good fit for your usecase. Have you looked into it?
2021-01-03 00:51:28 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 00:51:38 +0100 <Squarism> nope
2021-01-03 00:51:54 +0100 <Squarism> i guess i need to
2021-01-03 00:52:01 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
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2021-01-03 00:53:07 +0100 <Rembane> Squarism: GADTs might also help you
2021-01-03 00:54:11 +0100 <Squarism> Rembane, could you hint how GADTs would help?
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2021-01-03 00:56:55 +0100 <Rembane> Squarism: I think I just thought of a slightly less convoluted idea. What are the steps in the process? Are they a part of the same datatype or something like that?
2021-01-03 00:57:50 +0100 <Squarism> They are just records that differ a tiny bit between versions
2021-01-03 00:58:16 +0100cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 00:58:23 +0100 <Squarism> But their structure is quite central to the application
2021-01-03 00:58:39 +0100 <Squarism> So being proper types help
2021-01-03 00:59:14 +0100 <Rembane> That's good, how many different types of records are they?
2021-01-03 00:59:45 +0100 <Rembane> And do the records change often?
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2021-01-03 01:01:32 +0100 <Squarism> Rembane, 10 would be stretching it. Typically 2-4.
2021-01-03 01:01:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 01:02:41 +0100 <Rembane> Squarism: Cool, because I was thinking of building your own sequencing type, but it eventually boils down putting all of the types in a sum type anyway, so it's not a too exciting solution.
2021-01-03 01:03:06 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-73-208.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-01-03 01:03:48 +0100 <Squarism> Maybe I should look into HList =/
2021-01-03 01:04:07 +0100 <Rembane> Yeah.
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2021-01-03 02:03:49 +0100 <spopejoy> Squarism: instead of HList, is it possible that the list elements need to be a more "free" type like a DSL expression? My problem with HLists, existential lists etc is the worry that the need to "put them in a list" expresses more of a mechanical requirement, and isn't properly descriptive or declarative. Whereas, e.g. if they are all some `Exp` that will be evaluated with some interpreter, then the type doesn't need to concern itself with
2021-01-03 02:03:50 +0100 <spopejoy> actual contents, can be thrown in a vanilla list, etc ...
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2021-01-03 02:05:33 +0100 <Squarism> spopejoy, Ah good point. Maybe that could be a feasible path. Ill keep it in mind when I return to that.
2021-01-03 02:05:38 +0100 <spopejoy> To me the real value of an HList is to involve the compiler in the construction of the list, but for many runtime use cases (for instance, reading such a list back from serialization) that can be meaningless.
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2021-01-03 02:07:56 +0100 <Squarism> yeah, that I see no real value of the types at runtime. Only thing Im interest in are the instances i know all objects possesses.
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2021-01-03 02:16:15 +0100flux67(2fe3e53b@047-227-229-059.res.spectrum.com)
2021-01-03 02:16:39 +0100 <flux67> is there some function where i can go like (Just 3) some operator (Just 4) (+) = Just 7?
2021-01-03 02:16:53 +0100 <flux67> like apply a function inside the functor
2021-01-03 02:16:58 +0100 <Vulfe> fmap?
2021-01-03 02:17:14 +0100 <Vulfe> oh, never mind, I just understood what you wrote
2021-01-03 02:17:16 +0100 <Vulfe> let's see
2021-01-03 02:17:43 +0100 <flux67> i tried to hoogle `f a -> f b -> (a->b->c) -> f c` but didn't get anything
2021-01-03 02:17:55 +0100 <Rembane> :t (<*>)
2021-01-03 02:17:57 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-01-03 02:18:14 +0100 <Vulfe> yeah, you can do something like (pure f) <*> a <*> b
2021-01-03 02:18:20 +0100 <Vulfe> if you have an applicative functor
2021-01-03 02:18:21 +0100 <Rembane> > (+) <$> Just 3 <*> Just 5
2021-01-03 02:18:23 +0100 <lambdabot> Just 8
2021-01-03 02:18:31 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-01-03 02:18:46 +0100 <Rembane> flux67: Is something like that what you have in mind?
2021-01-03 02:18:51 +0100 <Vulfe> > (pure (+)) <*> Just 3 <*> Just 5
2021-01-03 02:18:51 +0100 <flux67> yeah, thanks!
2021-01-03 02:18:53 +0100 <lambdabot> Just 8
2021-01-03 02:18:57 +0100 <flux67> how do you come up with that?
2021-01-03 02:18:57 +0100 <Vulfe> (same thing)
2021-01-03 02:19:36 +0100 <Rembane> flux67: I asked here, many years ago. :)
2021-01-03 02:19:58 +0100 <Vulfe> well, the type of fmap is (a -> b) -> f a -> f b, but you want something with multiple inputs
2021-01-03 02:20:09 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
2021-01-03 02:20:27 +0100 <Vulfe> so if you have (a -> b -> c), you can think of that as a -> (b -> c), so fmap spits out something like f a -> f (b -> c)
2021-01-03 02:20:48 +0100 <Vulfe> but now you need an applicative <*> to turn f (b -> c) into f b -> f c
2021-01-03 02:21:13 +0100 <Vulfe> so the point is that if you want to do "something like fmap but with more inputs", then you want to use applicative <*> to reduce the inputs away one-by-one
2021-01-03 02:21:25 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 02:26:43 +0100 <boxscape> % :t liftA2
2021-01-03 02:26:44 +0100 <yahb> boxscape: Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c
2021-01-03 02:26:58 +0100 <boxscape> is the same thing but packaged into a single function, so it's a common pattern
2021-01-03 02:27:39 +0100 <boxscape> actually I'm surprised that hoogle didn't show that to you
2021-01-03 02:28:24 +0100kam1(~kam1@24.231.108.143)
2021-01-03 02:30:22 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-01-03 02:37:22 +0100columbarius(~columbari@i5E86B379.versanet.de)
2021-01-03 02:39:43 +0100frankdmartinez(~frankdmar@138.199.52.27)
2021-01-03 02:40:56 +0100 <cnmne[m]> hi, I'm trying to follow the example from https://www.haskell.org/alex/doc/html/introduction.html
2021-01-03 02:40:56 +0100 <cnmne[m]> but when I run any of =/+/-/* etc. I get a Var, and trying to produce a variable produces a lexical error exception
2021-01-03 02:42:30 +0100 <cnmne[m]> I'm running `alexScanTokens somestring`
2021-01-03 02:42:46 +0100 <cnmne[m]> after loading in ghci
2021-01-03 02:43:12 +0100frankdmartinez_(~frankdmar@184.170.253.89)
2021-01-03 02:43:17 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::4b02) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-03 02:43:56 +0100frankdmartinez(~frankdmar@138.199.52.27) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 02:43:56 +0100frankdmartinez_frankdmartinez
2021-01-03 02:46:26 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:81fd:2b8d:9354:7a4f)
2021-01-03 02:46:31 +0100 <pavonia> cnmne[m]: What is the error message?
2021-01-03 02:46:40 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 02:46:45 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@2600:1702:2e30:1a40:962:7b2a:874f:a73d)
2021-01-03 02:48:20 +0100 <cnmne[m]> pavonia: https://bpa.st/RBDQ
2021-01-03 02:49:09 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-035-082.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: lawid)
2021-01-03 02:49:22 +0100 <pavonia> Hhm, that's not a very helpful message
2021-01-03 02:49:48 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-01-03 02:51:02 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:81fd:2b8d:9354:7a4f) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 02:51:07 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-035-082.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-01-03 02:52:45 +0100teardown_(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush) (Quit: leaving)
2021-01-03 02:52:53 +0100 <ezrakilty> I'm trying to use an unreleased version of GHC, which I've never done before, and without building it myself. https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/9.0.1-rc1/ Having downloaded and untarred it, I'm not sure what to do next.
2021-01-03 02:53:17 +0100teardown(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
2021-01-03 02:53:36 +0100 <ezrakilty> There are some binaries, such as ghc/stage2/build/tmp/ghc-stage2, but they aren't pointed at their LD_LIBRARY_PATHs, so they don't immediately load the shared libraries.
2021-01-03 02:54:15 +0100 <ezrakilty> Running "make install", on the other hand, seems to trigger a full build
2021-01-03 02:54:23 +0100 <pavonia> cnmne[m]: Works here. What alex version are you using?
2021-01-03 02:54:31 +0100 <ezrakilty> Is there some simple way to run ghc from the tarball?
2021-01-03 02:55:00 +0100 <cnmne[m]> pavonia: alex 3.2.6
2021-01-03 02:55:23 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::ee4f)
2021-01-03 02:56:36 +0100 <cnmne[m]> I'm confused because even when I remove the `$alpha [...] { \s -> Var s }` line, `alexScanTokens "*"` gives me `[Var "*"]` maybe that's a separate problem, but how is a `Var` even being constructed?
2021-01-03 02:57:32 +0100 <boxscape> ezrakilty IIRC make install doesn't actually build it, it really does install it. I followed the instructions of the INSTALL file a couple days ago and it seemed to work.
2021-01-03 02:57:56 +0100 <ezrakilty> @boxscape Ah OK, let me try that, thanks.
2021-01-03 02:57:56 +0100 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2021-01-03 03:00:02 +0100 <boxscape> ezrakilty just making sure, you did download a binary build and not the source tar, yes?
2021-01-03 03:00:36 +0100 <boxscape> I suppose if you have the ghc-stage2 binary you must have
2021-01-03 03:01:40 +0100 <boxscape> (...downloaded the correct one, to end that sentence)
2021-01-03 03:02:30 +0100 <pavonia> cnmne[m]: Did you copy the example literally? Are you really using the correct file etc.?
2021-01-03 03:04:06 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-01-03 03:04:11 +0100kam1(~kam1@24.231.108.143) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-03 03:05:30 +0100 <ezrakilty> boxscape, yeah, it was the binary build. Running "make install" wants a C compiler, so I'm wondering if this will work, but giving it a go.
2021-01-03 03:05:31 +0100kam1(~kam1@24.231.108.143)
2021-01-03 03:06:01 +0100kam1(~kam1@24.231.108.143) (Client Quit)
2021-01-03 03:06:58 +0100 <cnmne[m]> pavonia: alright, i figured it out (silly mistake of course) didn't run alex on the file again after editing...
2021-01-03 03:07:10 +0100 <cnmne[m]> pavonia: thanks for the help haha sorry for the trouble
2021-01-03 03:10:05 +0100teardown_(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
2021-01-03 03:11:30 +0100 <cnmne[m]> for some reason I had it in my head that recompiling the module every time i loaded it in the ghci it would update the file. but that's just the generated `.hs` from the modified `.x`
2021-01-03 03:13:12 +0100Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-022-018.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-01-03 03:15:09 +0100teardown(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
2021-01-03 03:15:19 +0100zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@unaffiliated/zfnmxt)
2021-01-03 03:16:49 +0100flux67(2fe3e53b@047-227-229-059.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-01-03 03:18:47 +0100ph88^(~ph88@ip5f5af6cd.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 03:18:55 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:81fd:2b8d:9354:7a4f)
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2021-01-03 03:19:44 +0100 <frankdmartinez> I am reviewing https://wiki.haskell.org/Pronunciation. Is `({)}` seriously an operator? If so, what manner of thing does it do?
2021-01-03 03:21:13 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:21:30 +0100 <exarkun> It looks like a joke to me
2021-01-03 03:22:30 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-01-03 03:22:45 +0100 <exarkun> And is a syntax error, as I hoped it would be
2021-01-03 03:22:51 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-01-03 03:23:19 +0100 <exarkun> note the description and that () and {} are both haskell syntax used for grouping
2021-01-03 03:23:48 +0100 <frankdmartinez> Thank G-d for that.
2021-01-03 03:24:21 +0100 <ezrakilty> update on running the unreleased ghc: "make install" does indeed install it without building, however there were a few flies in the ointment:
2021-01-03 03:24:51 +0100 <ezrakilty> 1. It requires running ./configure, which wants to search for a C compiler, even though I guess it isn't going to run it to compile anything.
2021-01-03 03:25:28 +0100 <ezrakilty> 2. It gave a surprising error about not being able to find libtinfo.so.5, so I had to track down how to install that.
2021-01-03 03:26:05 +0100 <ezrakilty> (The above were hit on a fresh Ubuntu 20.04 installation on a VM.) Having hurdled those, I have a working ghc 9, thanks for your help boxscape.
2021-01-03 03:26:42 +0100 <boxscape> ah, yeah I had to install libtinfo as well
2021-01-03 03:27:56 +0100dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:30:26 +0100dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk)
2021-01-03 03:31:02 +0100 <ezrakilty> Yeah, "sudo apt install libtinfo5" in particular :shrug:
2021-01-03 03:32:11 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@2600:1702:2e30:1a40:962:7b2a:874f:a73d) ()
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2021-01-03 03:32:54 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-73-208.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-01-03 03:38:55 +0100Vq_(~vq@90-227-195-41-no77.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-01-03 03:38:56 +0100ahf_(ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
2021-01-03 03:39:00 +0100jchia__(~jchia@jungle.jchia.net)
2021-01-03 03:39:04 +0100kelton(~keltono@x-160-94-179-178.acm.umn.edu)
2021-01-03 03:39:06 +0100kaol_(~kaol@178.62.241.234)
2021-01-03 03:39:10 +0100ayako(~bnq@herrokitty.com)
2021-01-03 03:39:12 +0100Cheery_(~cheery@7-239-179-185.static.tentacle.fi)
2021-01-03 03:39:20 +0100cynick_(~worm@ec2-52-206-86-1.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
2021-01-03 03:39:21 +0100EvanR_(~evan@mail.evanr.info)
2021-01-03 03:39:29 +0100ezzieygu1wuf(~Unknown@unaffiliated/ezzieyguywuf)
2021-01-03 03:39:31 +0100forell_(~forell@unaffiliated/forell)
2021-01-03 03:39:36 +0100klardots1(~klardotsh@c-71-231-242-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 03:39:49 +0100w2gz(~do@159.89.11.133)
2021-01-03 03:39:56 +0100zx__(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle)
2021-01-03 03:40:02 +0100Vulfe(~vulfe@2600:1702:31b0:34e0:b1ad:809d:33ad:d747) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 03:40:22 +0100Maxdaman1us(~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus)
2021-01-03 03:40:24 +0100infinity0_(~infinity0@occupy.ecodis.net)
2021-01-03 03:40:24 +0100infinity0_(~infinity0@occupy.ecodis.net) (Changing host)
2021-01-03 03:40:24 +0100infinity0_(~infinity0@freenet/developer/infinity0)
2021-01-03 03:40:24 +0100infinity0(~infinity0@freenet/developer/infinity0) (Killed (moon.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
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2021-01-03 03:40:36 +0100columbarius1(~columbari@i5E86B379.versanet.de)
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2021-01-03 03:40:56 +0100noctux`(AKT8cvvYoA@unaffiliated/noctux)
2021-01-03 03:41:07 +0100_phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul)
2021-01-03 03:41:23 +0100davve_(davve@bsd.douchedata.com)
2021-01-03 03:41:40 +0100b3zi(~b3z@vmd41962.contaboserver.net)
2021-01-03 03:42:16 +0100stefan-__(~cri@42dots.de)
2021-01-03 03:42:33 +0100zmagii_(~zmagii@unaffiliated/zmagii)
2021-01-03 03:42:34 +0100wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 03:42:39 +0100cyphase_eviltwin(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase)
2021-01-03 03:43:00 +0100sepples_(~sepples@67.205.168.224)
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2021-01-03 03:43:30 +0100tanuki_(~quassel@173.168.154.189)
2021-01-03 03:43:46 +0100jtobin_(~jtobin@li1555-212.members.linode.com)
2021-01-03 03:43:47 +0100Tspoon_(tlarjoma@hilla.kapsi.fi)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100zfnmxt(~zfnmxt@unaffiliated/zfnmxt) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100klardotsh(~klardotsh@c-71-231-242-112.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100sm2n(~sm2n@bras-base-hmtnon1497w-grc-43-64-231-95-247.dsl.bell.ca) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100patrick1(~tarpk@ool-182dca76.dyn.optonline.net) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100keltono(~keltono@x-160-94-179-178.acm.umn.edu) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100clynamen(~clynamen@net-93-71-86-202.cust.vodafonedsl.it) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100djanatyn(~djanatyn@ec2-18-209-155-56.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Cheery(~cheery@7-239-179-185.static.tentacle.fi) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100m1dnight_(~m1dnight@188.ip-51-91-158.eu) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100s4msung(XqcfcDRHGx@karif.server-speed.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100EvanR(~evan@unaffiliated/evanr) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100energizer(~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Drezil(~sdressel@pwning.de) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Jesin(~Jesin@pool-72-66-101-18.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZU@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100cyphase(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100jluttine(~jluttine@87-95-146-110.bb.dnainternet.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100drewolson(~drewolson@64.227.24.16) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100wz1000(~wz1000@static.11.113.47.78.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100aidecoe(~aidecoe@unaffiliated/aidecoe) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Tene(~tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Dykam(Dykam@dykam.nl) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100kish`(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100hvr(~hvr@haskell/developer/hvr) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100cross(~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100madnight(~madnight@static.59.103.201.195.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100pierrot(~pi@unaffiliated/pierrot) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100b3z(~b3z@vmd41962.contaboserver.net) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Maxdamantus(~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100Deewiant(~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100connrs_(~connrs@runciter.connrs.uk) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:52 +0100kaol(~kaol@178.62.241.234) (*.net *.split)
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2021-01-03 03:43:53 +0100lyxia_(~lyxia@poisson.chat)
2021-01-03 03:43:54 +0100PlasPlasmaStar
2021-01-03 03:43:54 +0100leafiest4leafiest
2021-01-03 03:43:54 +0100russruss0russruss
2021-01-03 03:43:54 +0100drewolson3drewolson
2021-01-03 03:43:57 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-01-03 03:43:57 +0100azulineblissful
2021-01-03 03:44:06 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-01-03 03:44:10 +0100fiddlerwoaroof(~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof)
2021-01-03 03:44:19 +0100grumble(~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble)
2021-01-03 03:44:25 +0100TommyC(~TommyC@unaffiliated/sepulchralbloom)
2021-01-03 03:44:29 +0100wz1000(~wz1000@static.11.113.47.78.clients.your-server.de)
2021-01-03 03:44:32 +0100forell_forell
2021-01-03 03:44:33 +0100dcoutts_dcoutts
2021-01-03 03:44:45 +0100lyxia_lyxia
2021-01-03 03:44:48 +0100tolt(~weechat-h@li219-154.members.linode.com)
2021-01-03 03:44:50 +0100jluttine(~jluttine@87-95-146-110.bb.dnainternet.fi)
2021-01-03 03:45:05 +0100cyphase_eviltwincyphase
2021-01-03 03:45:11 +0100evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com)
2021-01-03 03:45:34 +0100cgfbee(~bot@oc1.itim-cj.ro)
2021-01-03 03:45:35 +0100ezzieygu1wuf(~Unknown@unaffiliated/ezzieyguywuf) (Quit: leaving)
2021-01-03 03:45:45 +0100kloeri(~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri)
2021-01-03 03:45:53 +0100ezzieyguywuf(~Unknown@unaffiliated/ezzieyguywuf)
2021-01-03 03:46:07 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-01-03 03:46:14 +0100xff0x_(~fox@2001:1a81:5204:2a00:adb6:cba:f871:aaef) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:46:30 +0100johnyginthehouse(~johnygint@159.203.30.32)
2021-01-03 03:47:02 +0100saurik(saurik@carrier.saurik.com)
2021-01-03 03:47:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 03:48:05 +0100xff0x_(~fox@2001:1a81:523c:2500:f1ae:7341:a74:d8a4)
2021-01-03 03:49:30 +0100Deewiant(~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi)
2021-01-03 03:49:31 +0100Clint(~Clint@libre.fm/hacker/clint)
2021-01-03 03:49:47 +0100mmaruseacph2(~mihai@198.199.100.72)
2021-01-03 03:49:47 +0100crblmr(~carbolyme@matrix.dropacid.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:49:49 +0100s4msung(LcSHfG9cfA@karif.server-speed.net)
2021-01-03 03:51:08 +0100arahael(~arahael@194-193-194-178.tpgi.com.au)
2021-01-03 03:51:20 +0100reactormonk(~reactormo@mehl.schokokeks.org)
2021-01-03 03:51:33 +0100jchia(~jchia@58.32.37.71)
2021-01-03 03:51:34 +0100crblmr(~carbolyme@matrix.dropacid.net)
2021-01-03 03:52:16 +0100DTZUZU_DTZUZU
2021-01-03 03:52:20 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 03:52:50 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:52:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:53:25 +0100wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:53:39 +0100jmchael(~jmchael@81.174.205.210) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-03 03:56:36 +0100energizer_energizer
2021-01-03 03:57:03 +0100perdent(~perdent@101.175.79.103) (Read error: No route to host)
2021-01-03 03:58:17 +0100wei2912(~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912)
2021-01-03 03:59:23 +0100sunrise-(~sunrise@51.194.80.91)
2021-01-03 03:59:23 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27)
2021-01-03 03:59:33 +0100so(~so@unaffiliated/so)
2021-01-03 04:02:57 +0100artyom(uid480728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqqalknrlwpfzvsu)
2021-01-03 04:03:04 +0100sunrise-(~sunrise@51.194.80.91) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-03 04:04:43 +0100artyom(uid480728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqqalknrlwpfzvsu) ()
2021-01-03 04:04:51 +0100artyom(uid480728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqqalknrlwpfzvsu)
2021-01-03 04:05:49 +0100sunrise(~sunrise@51.194.80.91)
2021-01-03 04:05:55 +0100b4er_(~b4er@91.193.4.138) (Quit: bye!)
2021-01-03 04:06:02 +0100b4er_(~b4er@91.193.4.138)
2021-01-03 04:06:45 +0100b4er_(~b4er@91.193.4.138) (Client Quit)
2021-01-03 04:06:55 +0100b4er(~b4er@91.193.4.138)
2021-01-03 04:08:36 +0100xirhtogal(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix)
2021-01-03 04:08:36 +0100lagothrixGuest41137
2021-01-03 04:08:36 +0100Guest41137(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (Killed (verne.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2021-01-03 04:08:36 +0100xirhtogallagothrix
2021-01-03 04:10:16 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 04:11:38 +0100sgibber2018(~arch-gibb@208.85.237.144)
2021-01-03 04:15:13 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 04:15:48 +0100Vulfe(~vulfe@2600:1702:31b0:34e0:b1ad:809d:33ad:d747)
2021-01-03 04:18:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 04:20:07 +0100da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:143:c475:d20e:3db4:7e5b)
2021-01-03 04:20:11 +0100xsperry(~as@unaffiliated/xsperry)
2021-01-03 04:20:23 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 04:20:25 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-164.cust.tzulo.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-03 04:22:40 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-01-03 04:23:28 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@98.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-03 04:23:35 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-01-03 08:41:03 +0100Nikotiini(~ubuntu@ec2-52-213-118-142.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
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2021-01-03 08:44:36 +0100chang(~textual@host-173-230-65-85.njjcmar.clients.pavlovmedia.com)
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2021-01-03 08:48:06 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-088-064-063-125.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-01-03 08:48:22 +0100c94a7(62232e67@c-98-35-46-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 08:48:35 +0100 <c94a7> so, using parametricity, you can show that any element of type `forall t:*, t -> t` is the polymorphic identity function
2021-01-03 08:49:35 +0100 <c94a7> can you do the same for `forall f:*->*, forall a:*, f a -> f a`?
2021-01-03 08:50:57 +0100 <c94a7> expanding out the free
2021-01-03 08:51:17 +0100 <c94a7> theorem doesn't give me what I want because it's too hard to use the free theorem for f
2021-01-03 08:51:36 +0100 <c94a7> even though it's obvious that "there's only the identity function you can define"
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2021-01-03 09:05:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 09:06:46 +0100hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap)
2021-01-03 09:07:10 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:ccd9:595d:1bc6:b87f) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 09:07:12 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmfywdizfrmonpis) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-01-03 09:08:06 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-01-03 09:10:37 +0100 <gentauro> any users of `xmonad` know how to `spawn` a `xterm` and run a `command`? I'm looking to hook up my F7 (Screen with code 0x1008FF59) to starting `xterm and running xrandr`
2021-01-03 09:17:38 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-01-03 09:19:35 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-163-84-25.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2021-01-03 09:20:23 +0100c94a7(62232e67@c-98-35-46-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 09:21:16 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-163-84-25.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 09:25:46 +0100wei2912(~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 09:29:19 +0100 <gentauro> this seems to work: `, ((0, 0x1008FF59), spawn $ "uxterm -e \"xrandr && read -n1 -r -p 'Press any key to continue…' key\"")`
2021-01-03 09:30:13 +0100boxscape(4ff0ba59@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.240.186.89)
2021-01-03 09:33:20 +0100 <boxscape> % :t id @Show
2021-01-03 09:33:20 +0100 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:1:5: error:; * Expecting one more argument to `Show'; Expected a type, but `Show' has kind `* -> Constraint'; * In the type `Show'; In the expression: id @Show
2021-01-03 09:33:21 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 09:33:25 +0100 <boxscape> interesting
2021-01-03 09:33:35 +0100 <boxscape> I have no output in my version
2021-01-03 09:34:05 +0100 <boxscape> % :!ghc --version
2021-01-03 09:34:05 +0100 <yahb> boxscape: The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 8.10.1
2021-01-03 09:34:08 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Read error: No route to host)
2021-01-03 09:34:20 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-01-03 09:35:30 +0100 <boxscape> ah, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18775
2021-01-03 09:35:39 +0100 <gentauro> boxscape: there is no Showable for `functions` as I recall it
2021-01-03 09:35:47 +0100 <gentauro> % :t id
2021-01-03 09:35:47 +0100 <yahb> gentauro: a -> a
2021-01-03 09:36:19 +0100 <boxscape> gentauro I'm fine with yahb's error message, I was concerned about the lack of an error message in my version
2021-01-03 09:36:33 +0100 <gentauro> boxscape: ahhh
2021-01-03 09:39:13 +0100HenryCH(~henry@2001:8e0:2003:e600:51f4:ff3a:3320:8dc6)
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2021-01-03 10:05:26 +0100_phaulphaul
2021-01-03 10:07:30 +0100jedws(~jedws@121.209.189.201) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 10:07:48 +0100kelton(~keltono@x-160-94-179-178.acm.umn.edu) ("WeeChat 2.9")
2021-01-03 10:08:26 +0100keltono(~keltono@x-160-94-179-178.acm.umn.edu)
2021-01-03 10:11:17 +0100 <L29Ah> upgraded my lambdabot to ghc-8.10.3, now it throws this at me at every interpreter use:
2021-01-03 10:11:18 +0100 <L29Ah> mueval-core: NotAllowed "These modules are not interpreted:\nL\n"
2021-01-03 10:11:19 +0100 <L29Ah> CallStack (from HasCallStack):
2021-01-03 10:11:20 +0100 <L29Ah> error, called at ./Mueval/Interpreter.hs:149:31 in main:Mueval.Interpreter
2021-01-03 10:11:24 +0100 <L29Ah> how do i fix this?
2021-01-03 10:11:38 +0100 <L29Ah> alternatively, are there sources of yahb available anywhere?
2021-01-03 10:15:36 +0100Ekho(~Ekho@unaffiliated/ekho) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-01-03 10:26:10 +0100 <nf> L29Ah: this was fixed in https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/commit/04766801a , so simply upgrade lambdabot
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2021-01-03 10:29:50 +0100 <boxscape> hmm 8.10.1 is 8.10.1, right, there aren't multiple slightly different version with that name? Because I'm getting an error in yahb for `:t id @Maybe`, but in my own 8.10.1, I'm not getting an error
2021-01-03 10:29:53 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 10:30:13 +0100 <L29Ah> nf: thanks!
2021-01-03 10:31:16 +0100 <nf> maybe yahb has some extension enabled that changes the behaviour?
2021-01-03 10:32:20 +0100 <boxscape> that could be
2021-01-03 10:32:31 +0100 <boxscape> oh, I should check -f-defer-type-errors, I have that on by default
2021-01-03 10:32:42 +0100 <boxscape> % :set -fdefer-type-errors
2021-01-03 10:32:42 +0100 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-01-03 10:32:47 +0100 <boxscape> % :t id @Maybe
2021-01-03 10:32:47 +0100 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-01-03 10:32:52 +0100 <boxscape> there we go
2021-01-03 10:32:54 +0100 <boxscape> thanks nf
2021-01-03 10:34:11 +0100 <nf> % () :: () ()
2021-01-03 10:34:11 +0100 <yahb> nf: ; <interactive>:157:7: error:; * Expected kind `* -> *', but `()' has kind `*'; * In an expression type signature: () (); In the expression: () :: () (); In an equation for `it': it = () :: () ()
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2021-01-03 10:46:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> defer type errors, not kind errors :)
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2021-01-03 10:55:35 +0100 <idnar> haha
2021-01-03 10:57:16 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2021-01-03 11:13:13 +0100HenryCH(~henry@2001:8e0:2003:e600:51f4:ff3a:3320:8dc6) ()
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2021-01-03 11:29:59 +0100 <nf> oh
2021-01-03 11:30:09 +0100 <nf> % () :: Int
2021-01-03 11:30:10 +0100 <yahb> nf: ; <interactive>:158:1: error:; * Couldn't match expected type `Int' with actual type `()'; * In the expression: () :: Int; In an equation for `it': it = () :: Int
2021-01-03 11:30:36 +0100 <nf> hm
2021-01-03 11:31:25 +0100 <nf> i guess that's runtime
2021-01-03 11:31:29 +0100 <nf> % :t () :: Int
2021-01-03 11:31:30 +0100 <yahb> nf: ; <interactive>:1:1: warning: [-Wdeferred-type-errors]; * Couldn't match expected type `Int' with actual type `()'; * In the expression: () :: Int; Int
2021-01-03 11:31:42 +0100 <nf> ah, warning
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2021-01-03 12:36:46 +0100 <kuribas> why do haskell libraries have to make things complicated? For example: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/logging-effect-1.3.12/docs/Control-Monad-Log.html#v:logMessage…
2021-01-03 12:37:08 +0100 <kuribas> That could be just message -> m ()
2021-01-03 12:37:13 +0100 <merijn> Don't use libraries who make things complicated? Problem solved
2021-01-03 12:37:41 +0100 <kuribas> it's a trend.
2021-01-03 12:37:52 +0100 <merijn> It's not a trend. That's always been the case
2021-01-03 12:38:08 +0100 <kuribas> ah right :-)
2021-01-03 12:38:25 +0100 <merijn> One third of hackage is abstract nonsense, one third is pragmatic libraries for getting shit done, final third is somewhere in between
2021-01-03 12:38:28 +0100 <kuribas> to be fair, other language have the same problem.
2021-01-03 12:38:40 +0100 <merijn> If you want a simple logging interface, just use monad-logger
2021-01-03 12:38:54 +0100 <merijn> (although I'd wish it'd slim down on dependencies a bit)
2021-01-03 12:39:10 +0100 <kuribas> I don't like that one either.
2021-01-03 12:39:19 +0100 <merijn> Why?
2021-01-03 12:39:29 +0100 <merijn> Can't be due to making things complicated...
2021-01-03 12:39:30 +0100 <Uniaika> bloody hell what is this API
2021-01-03 12:39:40 +0100 <kuribas> TH for logging, really?N
2021-01-03 12:39:44 +0100 <__monty__> kuribas: The docs seem to suggest you want logMessage rather than logMessageFree.
2021-01-03 12:39:46 +0100 <merijn> kuribas: TH is optional
2021-01-03 12:40:09 +0100 <merijn> kuribas: The TH versions are just for getting automtic source locations, you can just...use the non-template versions?
2021-01-03 12:40:31 +0100 <kuribas> __monty__: I have to implement an instance of MonadLog
2021-01-03 12:40:46 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: hmm, okay
2021-01-03 12:41:12 +0100 <kuribas> IMO the rest of logging-effect is fine.
2021-01-03 12:41:19 +0100 <merijn> kuribas: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monad-logger-0.3.36/docs/Control-Monad-Logger.html#g:8
2021-01-03 12:42:02 +0100 <merijn> kuribas: "logging with source location" seems a reasonable feature to provide and there's no real way to do that without TH that I can think off
2021-01-03 12:42:16 +0100 <kuribas> yeah
2021-01-03 12:42:35 +0100 <merijn> I just use the non-TH versions in most of my code, though
2021-01-03 12:44:16 +0100 <kuribas> The structure logging from logging-effect is nice though...
2021-01-03 12:46:42 +0100dhil(~dhil@78.156.97.38)
2021-01-03 12:46:45 +0100safinaskar2(~user@109-252-91-163.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-01-03 12:47:15 +0100safinaskar2(~user@109-252-91-163.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
2021-01-03 12:49:24 +0100 <Kronic> So I'm not alone in completely missing the point of the more abstract libs out there... good to know, although I will say I've found most of the libraries I've come across thus far pretty fun to use with few surprises
2021-01-03 12:50:34 +0100 <merijn> Kronic: Some are really abstract and really useful, some are just really abstract, some are more experimental researchy play things. It all depends
2021-01-03 12:50:48 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::ee4f) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 12:52:23 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::ee4f)
2021-01-03 12:52:40 +0100 <kuribas> IMO most of lens can be done simply in another way.
2021-01-03 12:53:47 +0100 <kuribas> I think microlens exports a useful subset of lens.
2021-01-03 12:54:55 +0100cyphase(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase)
2021-01-03 12:55:15 +0100 <__monty__> Microlens and optics had the advantage of lens already being a thing though.
2021-01-03 12:56:55 +0100 <kuribas> sure
2021-01-03 13:02:14 +0100 <kuribas> abstract nonsense can often turn out to be useful :)
2021-01-03 13:02:38 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b824c74600fc8281fa176f08a2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-03 13:04:01 +0100 <__monty__> That's why a hackage without impractical libraries wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
2021-01-03 13:04:04 +0100 <kuribas> I think the usefulness of monads outweight their complexity.
2021-01-03 13:04:51 +0100 <__monty__> Are bind and return really that complex?
2021-01-03 13:05:04 +0100 <kuribas> __monty__: monad transformers are...
2021-01-03 13:05:37 +0100 <__monty__> How was I supposed to know you elided transformers?
2021-01-03 13:06:13 +0100 <kuribas> elided?
2021-01-03 13:06:48 +0100Shiranai(beed4728@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.190.237.71.40)
2021-01-03 13:06:58 +0100 <__monty__> You said monads and there was no context to suggest you meant monad transformers.
2021-01-03 13:07:14 +0100 <kuribas> monad transformers are monads
2021-01-03 13:07:56 +0100 <__monty__> But they're not very useful if you only use the monadic interface?
2021-01-03 13:08:18 +0100 <kuribas> is there another interface?
2021-01-03 13:08:33 +0100 <kuribas> you mean mtl?
2021-01-03 13:08:42 +0100sgibber2018(~arch-gibb@208.85.237.144) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-01-03 13:08:57 +0100 <__monty__> No, I mean without lifts a monad transformer isn't appreciably different from a monad.
2021-01-03 13:09:06 +0100 <__monty__> And hence not more complex either.
2021-01-03 13:09:42 +0100 <kuribas> monads aren't very useful without composing them...
2021-01-03 13:09:48 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-41.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-01-03 13:10:21 +0100 <merijn> disagree, tbh
2021-01-03 13:10:26 +0100 <Kronic> more complex or not, it took me a good while to understand what it is and why I might want it, and I only kind of understood it once I ran into the problems you face without it
2021-01-03 13:10:41 +0100 <merijn> Kronic: That applies to many things ;)
2021-01-03 13:11:03 +0100 <__monty__> And imo the persistent "Monads are hard" is what makes them hard to grasp for some people.
2021-01-03 13:11:13 +0100 <Shiranai> Hello, can anyone please help me understand how is it that I should read this? `map = flip foldRight Nil . ((:.) .)` By that I mean the order and implicit parenthesis
2021-01-03 13:11:15 +0100 <merijn> Kronic: Rank2Types/RankNTypes are utterly confusing and inscrutable, until you run into a problem that's solved by them and then you go "ooooh!"
2021-01-03 13:11:18 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: indeed. monads etc are complex. But so is OO, and software engineering in general.
2021-01-03 13:11:41 +0100 <merijn> __monty__: No, the real problem is people who aren't used to mathematical abstractions trying to understand them by staring at the definition
2021-01-03 13:11:44 +0100 <__monty__> @pointful flip foldRight Nil . ((:.) .)
2021-01-03 13:11:44 +0100 <lambdabot> (\ x -> foldRight (\ x0 -> ((:.)) (x x0)) Nil)
2021-01-03 13:11:50 +0100 <kuribas> and in languages which are made to be "easier", like clojure, you just run into the same problems.
2021-01-03 13:11:54 +0100 <merijn> That only works for simple abstractions AND only if you're used to that
2021-01-03 13:12:14 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-01-03 13:12:33 +0100 <merijn> __monty__: See also my favourite quote about teaching abstractions in math
2021-01-03 13:12:34 +0100 <merijn> "Suppose that you want to teach the 'cat' concept to a very young child. Do you explain that a cat is a relatively small, primarily carnivorous mammal with retractible claws, a distinctive sonic output, etc.? I'll bet not. You probably show the kid a lot of different cats, saying 'kitty' each time, until it gets the idea. To put it more generally, generalizations are best made by abstraction from
2021-01-03 13:12:41 +0100 <merijn> experience."
2021-01-03 13:12:56 +0100 <Shiranai> I know it's just the usual map on lists, but how do you convert it? I thought functions were left associative so I assume flip is acting upon foldR? but that doesn't make sense as foldR takes three parameters?
2021-01-03 13:13:10 +0100 <merijn> But people don't like "you can't learn this by seeing the definition, you gotta look at many examples" answer
2021-01-03 13:13:15 +0100 <kuribas> Shiranai: why would you even attempt to read that?
2021-01-03 13:13:43 +0100philopsos(~caecilius@gateway/tor-sasl/caecilius) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 13:13:44 +0100 <Shiranai> kuribas: I want to check if I'm understanding haskell syntax correctly
2021-01-03 13:13:56 +0100 <merijn> Shiranai: Unless that's homework I'd just whack whoever wrote that with the "sensible stick" and rewrite it simpler :p
2021-01-03 13:13:59 +0100 <kuribas> Shiranai: I'd use sane example to learn haskell syntax.
2021-01-03 13:14:01 +0100 <__monty__> :t flip foldRight
2021-01-03 13:14:01 +0100 <Shiranai> I got that functino from a pointfree converter so don't really care about that particular exampe
2021-01-03 13:14:03 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-01-03 13:14:03 +0100 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: foldRight :: a -> b -> c
2021-01-03 13:14:17 +0100 <__monty__> :t flip foldr
2021-01-03 13:14:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => b -> (a -> b -> b) -> t a -> b
2021-01-03 13:14:27 +0100 <merijn> Shiranai: foldR doesn't take 3 parametes
2021-01-03 13:14:35 +0100 <merijn> Shiranai: Every function only ever takes one
2021-01-03 13:15:05 +0100 <merijn> Shiranai: Remember that "a -> b -> c" is just "a -> (b -> c)"
2021-01-03 13:15:14 +0100 <merijn> :t flip
2021-01-03 13:15:15 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c
2021-01-03 13:15:16 +0100 <Shiranai> ahh I see, thought some currying was going on, but how do I interpret flip in this casae?
2021-01-03 13:15:49 +0100 <__monty__> merijn: Maybe my case is unusual but seeing monads being used did nothing for me. It wasn't until I was ready to accept that the definition of return and bind is all there is to them that it clicked for me.
2021-01-03 13:16:01 +0100 <merijn> Shiranai: Well, if you look at the type of flip and foldRight try and identify what part of foldRight's type corresponds to 'a', 'b', and 'c' in flip's type
2021-01-03 13:16:01 +0100nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-01-03 13:17:03 +0100 <merijn> __monty__: I didn't mean seeing them by used, I meant staring at the definitions of each. And of course you will also need to study the laws for a bit, but the problem is that people not used to mathematical abstraction don't accept the "the laws *are* the definition/meaning" view
2021-01-03 13:17:22 +0100 <merijn> They keep wanting to know "what it *really* is", but the answer is of course "anything fitting these laws"
2021-01-03 13:18:24 +0100chang(~textual@host-173-230-65-85.njjcmar.clients.pavlovmedia.com)
2021-01-03 13:18:27 +0100Matt_P(~Matt_P@185.204.1.185)
2021-01-03 13:18:51 +0100 <__monty__> That sounds like what I was like. But only staring at the Monad method signatures finally made it click. The concrete implementations did nothing for me.
2021-01-03 13:19:04 +0100 <itai33[m]> Is there a good way to implement optional arguments in haskell? This is my usecase:
2021-01-03 13:19:08 +0100 <Shiranai> `foldR :: (b -> (a ->b ->b)) -> (t a) -> b` `flip foldR :: (t a) -> (b -> (a ->b ->b)) -> b`
2021-01-03 13:19:14 +0100chang(~textual@host-173-230-65-85.njjcmar.clients.pavlovmedia.com) (Client Quit)
2021-01-03 13:19:21 +0100 <itai33[m]> I want to add support for the sort and window optional arguments for the find function in libmpd https://www.musicpd.org/doc/html/protocol.html#command-find
2021-01-03 13:19:25 +0100frankdmartinez(~frankdmar@184.170.253.89) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 13:19:29 +0100 <Shiranai> confusing as hell but I kinda get it, thanks merijn, won't try to read this things anymore haha
2021-01-03 13:19:30 +0100 <itai33[m]> it currently only takes a filter
2021-01-03 13:19:32 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: Maybe is for optional arguments :)
2021-01-03 13:19:55 +0100 <itai33[m]> and the only way i can think how to do it is by adding Maybes, but having to pass two Nothings every time is kind of annoying
2021-01-03 13:20:04 +0100 <kuribas> there is also named: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/named-0.3.0.1
2021-01-03 13:20:31 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: it uses type level magick to implement named arguments.
2021-01-03 13:20:43 +0100Widget(~widget@2a04:ee41:6:7207:c11:a26b:c8ca:962a) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 13:21:22 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: The usual way I do optional arguments is by defining a record for the function's argument and then having a "defaultConfig" value where people can override fields they care about
2021-01-03 13:21:32 +0100 <__monty__> Shiranai: Hmm, that bracketing looks off.
2021-01-03 13:21:34 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: That's much simpler than kuribas' suggestion :p
2021-01-03 13:21:48 +0100nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu)
2021-01-03 13:22:54 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: I even have an example: https://github.com/merijn/tasty-travis/blob/master/Test/Tasty/Travis.hs#L123 then see the TravisConfig type and defaultConfig defined earlier in the file
2021-01-03 13:23:34 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: btw, sort could be a type that includes NoOrder
2021-01-03 13:23:44 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: And then you use it something like: https://github.com/merijn/broadcast-chan/blob/master/broadcast-chan-tests/BroadcastChan/Test.hs#L3…
2021-01-03 13:23:48 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: so you don't even need a Maybe there.
2021-01-03 13:23:59 +0100 <itai33[m]> kuribas: what do you mean?
2021-01-03 13:24:39 +0100 <itai33[m]> merijn: I see, i recall hearing that using default values like this was frowned upon
2021-01-03 13:24:40 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: I mean, TYPE would be an enum, no?
2021-01-03 13:24:55 +0100 <itai33[m]> or was it the default typeclass
2021-01-03 13:25:09 +0100Vulfe(~vulfe@2600:1702:31b0:34e0:b1ad:809d:33ad:d747)
2021-01-03 13:25:10 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: so you include NoOrder in it, meaning, undefined ordering.
2021-01-03 13:25:22 +0100 <itai33[m]> oh right
2021-01-03 13:25:23 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: than you have a single maybe for window, which is fine IMO.
2021-01-03 13:25:46 +0100 <kuribas> it's when you have a string of maybes that things get confusing.
2021-01-03 13:25:53 +0100p-core(~Thunderbi@koleje-wifi-0045.koleje.cuni.cz) (Quit: p-core)
2021-01-03 13:25:55 +0100 <itai33[m]> this makes it more readable but fundamentally keeps the issue of having to pass extra arguments
2021-01-03 13:26:07 +0100 <itai33[m]> yeah
2021-01-03 13:26:10 +0100p-core(~Thunderbi@koleje-wifi-0045.koleje.cuni.cz)
2021-01-03 13:26:10 +0100 <kuribas> which is a problem why?
2021-01-03 13:26:20 +0100 <itai33[m]> just kind of annoying
2021-01-03 13:26:26 +0100 <itai33[m]> no other reason really
2021-01-03 13:27:07 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: That was the default typeclass, probably. Which I personally frown upon too (since it's hard to reason about) explicitly named defaults are easy to reason about :p
2021-01-03 13:27:24 +0100 <itai33[m]> gotcha
2021-01-03 13:27:30 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: Why do you need to pass extra arguments? Any argument you don't use you don't need to update :)
2021-01-03 13:27:41 +0100 <merijn> or was that for kuribas? :)
2021-01-03 13:27:50 +0100 <itai33[m]> that was for kuribas yeah
2021-01-03 13:27:53 +0100Widget(~widget@2a04:ee41:6:7207:c11:a26b:c8ca:962a)
2021-01-03 13:28:16 +0100da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:143:c475:d20e:3db4:7e5b) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 13:28:30 +0100 <kuribas> the default options approach is what most libraries use.
2021-01-03 13:28:57 +0100 <kuribas> but overkill for this function IMO
2021-01-03 13:29:28 +0100 <itai33[m]> yeah that's what kind of gets me about merijn's proposal
2021-01-03 13:29:38 +0100 <itai33[m]> all the functions here have like 2 optional arguments max
2021-01-03 13:29:48 +0100Vulfe(~vulfe@2600:1702:31b0:34e0:b1ad:809d:33ad:d747) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-03 13:30:12 +0100hvr_hvr
2021-01-03 13:30:17 +0100 <itai33[m]> and there are like, 4 types of optional arguments total, and if i have some sort of master optional argument record i'm breaking type safety which i don't really want to do
2021-01-03 13:31:24 +0100 <itai33[m]> i wonder if there is a way to do optional arguments in a type safe way
2021-01-03 13:31:49 +0100 <itai33[m]> i don't know enough about dependent types to know if that's a thing there
2021-01-03 13:32:28 +0100 <kuribas> itai33[m]: that what the named package does.
2021-01-03 13:32:34 +0100 <kuribas> but it's rather heavy
2021-01-03 13:32:54 +0100 <kuribas> the idiomatic way is either use Maybe or a record.
2021-01-03 13:32:55 +0100nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-01-03 13:32:55 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: Oh, there's an alternative option if it's just 1 or 2
2021-01-03 13:32:59 +0100dirediresalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 13:33:09 +0100 <kuribas> or avoid Maybe by being clever.
2021-01-03 13:33:15 +0100 <itai33[m]> "named is a lightweight library for named function parameters (keyword arguments) "
2021-01-03 13:33:25 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: Which is: have 2 maybe arguments, but provide an alternative version of the function with _ or something that has Nothing pre-applied
2021-01-03 13:33:28 +0100dirediresalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2021-01-03 13:33:51 +0100 <itai33[m]> merijn: that is basically what i'm currently doing
2021-01-03 13:33:55 +0100 <merijn> so you have "foo :: Maybe a -> Int -> Foo" and "foo_ :: Int -> Foo; foo_ = foo Nothing"
2021-01-03 13:33:59 +0100 <kuribas> yeah, you could have find and windowedFind.
2021-01-03 13:34:03 +0100 <merijn> itai33[m]: That's reasonable enough, tbh
2021-01-03 13:34:10 +0100 <itai33[m]> it is also probably the best idea because it will keep libmpd backwards compatible
2021-01-03 13:34:14 +0100 <itai33[m]> which is always fun
2021-01-03 13:34:23 +0100 <itai33[m]> i was just wondering in general
2021-01-03 13:34:37 +0100 <[exa]> hm, how do I ask cabal about what precise dependency package versions is it using for building a package?
2021-01-03 13:34:52 +0100 <itai33[m]> well, kind of backwards compatible, there are a few good changes that will have to change type signatures
2021-01-03 13:35:01 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: better use a descriptive name instead of _ and '
2021-01-03 13:35:24 +0100Widget(~widget@2a04:ee41:6:7207:c11:a26b:c8ca:962a) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-01-03 13:35:40 +0100 <dcoutts> [exa]: if you mean the full nix-style hashes, you can look in dist-newstyle/cache/plan.json
2021-01-03 13:35:45 +0100 <itai33[m]> findSortWindow is kind of long though
2021-01-03 13:36:34 +0100 <[exa]> dcoutts: not really, I'm just trying to constrain dependency versions a bit and I'd love to know what version I'm actually using without too much digging
2021-01-03 13:36:53 +0100 <[exa]> hm, `cabal freeze` + copying the versions out of the freeze file could kinda work
2021-01-03 13:37:15 +0100 <dcoutts> yep, or they're reported when you do cabal configure
2021-01-03 13:37:47 +0100 <[exa]> oh wow, I didn't notice that yet
2021-01-03 13:38:11 +0100 <[exa]> so far it starts to look like "2021: year of constructive failure"
2021-01-03 13:38:12 +0100 <itai33[m]> dcoutts: `cabal configure` doesn't seem to report everything though
2021-01-03 13:39:04 +0100 <[exa]> that gets fixed with --reinstall right?
2021-01-03 13:39:22 +0100 <__monty__> Doesn't cabal-plan also provide this info?
2021-01-03 13:40:02 +0100 <Kronic> __monty__: I don't know if I agree that the public opinion of how hard monads are or aren't is the only factor in understanding them. I'm plenty sure that it is to do with the fact that Haskell has very unfamiliar syntax, and that monads require you to understand much of that in order to be able to prove to yourself why they are useful
2021-01-03 13:40:09 +0100Gorbel(~Gorbel@p5790e976.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-01-03 13:40:28 +0100 <__monty__> Kronic: I never said it's the only reason.
2021-01-03 13:41:05 +0100 <Kronic> I was just responding to your earlier message: " And imo the persistent "Monads are hard" is what makes them hard to grasp for some people." Not meaning to put words into your mouth.
2021-01-03 13:41:41 +0100 <__monty__> [exa]: Hmm, this is the second time in as many days I see --reinstall. Wouldn't the problem disappear if you just refrain from using install in the first place?
2021-01-03 13:42:21 +0100 <__monty__> Kronic: And I'm clarifying that I did not mean it's the only reason some people have trouble with understanding monads.
2021-01-03 13:42:52 +0100 <Kronic> Right, I accept that, that's why I said I didn't mean to put words into your mouth :)
2021-01-03 13:43:27 +0100 <[exa]> __monty__: I'm using build + run. Like, there's no problem, I just wanted an easy&comprehensible way to see the dependency versions
2021-01-03 13:44:01 +0100 <[exa]> currently, `configure --reinstall --dry-run` gives best output while not breaking anything
2021-01-03 13:44:04 +0100 <__monty__> Kronic: Which syntax in particular do you mean, do-notation?
2021-01-03 13:44:43 +0100 <Kronic> Do notation is quite familiar, I would say function application and in general the idea that things evaluate rather than execute
2021-01-03 13:46:17 +0100[exa]discovers cabal gen-bounds
2021-01-03 13:46:22 +0100 <[exa]> </problem>
2021-01-03 13:47:42 +0100 <__monty__> In my case do-notation got in the way of understanding monads.
2021-01-03 13:51:22 +0100frankdmartinez(~frankdmar@184.170.253.89)
2021-01-03 13:54:27 +0100nek0(~nek0@mail.nek0.eu)
2021-01-03 13:56:48 +0100Melanie(~Melanie@192-0-134-138.cpe.teksavvy.com)
2021-01-03 13:57:41 +0100Widget(~widget@213.55.224.205)
2021-01-03 13:58:35 +0100 <hvr> [exa]: you might be interested in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cabal-plan#description which answers the question " what precise dependency package versions is it using for building a package" far more precisely than `cabal freeze` can
2021-01-03 13:58:38 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2021-01-03 14:02:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> [exa]: holy crap thanks for gen-bounds
2021-01-03 14:02:44 +0100urdh(~urdh@unaffiliated/urdh)
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2021-01-03 14:08:37 +0100jchia__(~jchia@58.32.64.17) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-01-03 14:12:38 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-01-03 14:15:30 +0100 <[exa]> tomsmeding: surprising right? :D
2021-01-03 14:15:56 +0100 <[exa]> hvr: I've been eyeing that too, thanks!
2021-01-03 14:25:03 +0100worc3131(~quassel@2a02:c7f:dcc4:6500:cf0e:3346:8766:ab20) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-01-03 14:33:46 +0100 <merijn> __monty__: That's why I recommend beginners don't use do notation
2021-01-03 14:36:21 +0100Gorbel(~Gorbel@p5790e976.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Gorbel)
2021-01-03 14:36:38 +0100Wuzzy(~Wuzzy@p5790e976.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-01-03 14:37:42 +0100xintron2(~xintron@unaffiliated/xintron)
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2021-01-03 14:40:45 +0100Lurkki[m]1(lurkkifene@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jbjjhqmxlbixvnly)
2021-01-03 14:42:38 +0100 <nrdmn9> is using `foreign` declarations on variadic functions undefined behavior? Because it seems it is not possible to declare variadic functions as such.
2021-01-03 14:45:02 +0100madjestic(~Android@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out)
2021-01-03 14:45:24 +0100madjestic(~Android@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net)
2021-01-03 14:46:43 +0100 <nrdmn9> ghc and some of cabal's dependencies do that in a few places
2021-01-03 14:46:45 +0100frankdmartinez(~frankdmar@184.170.253.89) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 14:47:31 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@98.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-01-03 14:59:40 +0100superstar64(6ccefa7c@108-206-250-124.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-03 15:01:18 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: what is nice about logging-effect, is that I can store the logging callback in my monadstack environment, deriving the MonadLog typeclass, and if necessary pass the callback to some low level function that needs logging.
2021-01-03 15:01:31 +0100 <kuribas> merijn: this way my monad stack is no "infecting" the whole codebase.
2021-01-03 15:01:46 +0100 <kuribas> I can clearly separate low level code which works only in IO
2021-01-03 15:02:11 +0100 <kuribas> For example database code
2021-01-03 15:02:17 +0100Saukk(~Saukk@83-148-239-3.dynamic.lounea.fi)
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2021-01-03 15:02:29 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c704e739101f4cb6fc9280ae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-01-03 15:02:31 +0100 <kuribas> it shouldn't need to know about anything application specific.
2021-01-03 15:02:40 +0100 <kuribas> except, fetch or store this in the DB
2021-01-03 15:03:59 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 15:04:03 +0100 <kuribas> and also nice, I can avoid MonadBaseControl, or UnliftIO.
2021-01-03 15:04:40 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-01-03 15:06:30 +0100 <kuribas> I totally avoid the bracket problem by never bracketing my monad stack.
2021-01-03 15:06:47 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a8f8:9aa6:32f8:2a12)
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2021-01-03 15:09:17 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-03 15:09:49 +0100 <kuribas> I don't see the point of UnliftIO really...
2021-01-03 15:11:26 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a8f8:9aa6:32f8:2a12) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 15:11:53 +0100Tesseraction(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction)
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2021-01-03 15:13:31 +0100 <superstar64> this this typeclass seem like it could be useful https://gist.github.com/Superstar64/8cb508537c5a02e1d6abe4da1cef8127
2021-01-03 15:14:11 +0100 <superstar64> i kinda just look the de brujin indexing of the lambda calculus and made it tagless final
2021-01-03 15:16:48 +0100m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de)
2021-01-03 15:17:37 +0100 <superstar64> i'm not actually sure what other monads could fulfill these laws
2021-01-03 15:18:38 +0100Melanie(~Melanie@192-0-134-138.cpe.teksavvy.com)
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2021-01-03 15:28:14 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@115.215.41.150) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-01-03 15:35:17 +0100son0p(~son0p@181.136.122.143)
2021-01-03 15:39:14 +0100 <kuribas> superstar64: that looks like (Monad m, Monoid c) => m c
2021-01-03 15:39:44 +0100 <superstar64> how so? i don't see the connection
2021-01-03 15:43:52 +0100 <kuribas> application is liftA2 (<>)
2021-01-03 15:45:50 +0100 <superstar64> what about lambda?
2021-01-03 15:46:03 +0100 <superstar64> also does the law i made always hold for `liftA2 (<>)`?
2021-01-03 15:46:33 +0100Saukk(~Saukk@83-148-239-3.dynamic.lounea.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 15:46:33 +0100 <kuribas> and lambda is (>>= maybe mempty pure)
2021-01-03 15:46:40 +0100 <kuribas> :t (>>= maybe mempty pure)
2021-01-03 15:46:42 +0100 <lambdabot> (Monad m, Monoid (m b)) => m (Maybe b) -> m b
2021-01-03 15:46:51 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@115.215.41.150)
2021-01-03 15:47:27 +0100 <kuribas> :t fmap (fromMaybe mempty)
2021-01-03 15:47:29 +0100 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Monoid b) => f (Maybe b) -> f b
2021-01-03 15:49:49 +0100 <superstar64> ok, but do my laws hold for those?
2021-01-03 15:49:52 +0100geekosaur(ae68c070@cpe-174-104-192-112.neo.res.rr.com)
2021-01-03 15:50:36 +0100zyeri(zyeri@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-kqsbhdwzgpshybvi)
2021-01-03 15:50:36 +0100zyeri(zyeri@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-kqsbhdwzgpshybvi) (Changing host)
2021-01-03 15:50:36 +0100zyeri(zyeri@tilde.team/users/zyeri)
2021-01-03 15:51:48 +0100 <superstar64> is there any sort of distributive monad?
2021-01-03 15:51:56 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-01-03 15:53:31 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 15:53:36 +0100 <superstar64> with an additional operation that bind can distribute over?
2021-01-03 15:54:00 +0100 <kuribas> I guess not...
2021-01-03 15:56:18 +0100kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i9khg66sw78tsx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2021-01-03 15:56:30 +0100 <superstar64> kuribas, you might be on to something, there might be a way to take a monoid make it fulfill these laws, idk
2021-01-03 16:00:01 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:5824:5a47:969d:fa33) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:02:36 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-01-03 16:03:06 +0100 <superstar64> ok, i included what i based the laws off now https://gist.github.com/Superstar64/8cb508537c5a02e1d6abe4da1cef8127
2021-01-03 16:04:31 +0100 <superstar64> at least i think my laws hold for what i wrote
2021-01-03 16:05:46 +0100Lurkki(54f048f5@esm-84-240-72-245.netplaza.fi)
2021-01-03 16:07:32 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a8f8:9aa6:32f8:2a12)
2021-01-03 16:07:53 +0100Vulfe(~vulfe@2600:1702:31b0:34e0:b1ad:809d:33ad:d747)
2021-01-03 16:13:14 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:a8f8:9aa6:32f8:2a12) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:14:29 +0100v_m_v(~vm_v@2a02:aa12:3200:6480:14d3:e041:99da:4fe5)
2021-01-03 16:19:10 +0100 <ij> how can I rewrite this? should I? http://sprunge.us/8GttUx
2021-01-03 16:20:12 +0100notzmv(~user@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-01-03 16:21:05 +0100madjestic(~Android@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:23:29 +0100fendor_(~fendor@178.115.130.71.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-01-03 16:23:45 +0100_ashbreeze_(~mark@64.85.214.234.reverse.socket.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 16:24:39 +0100 <ij> I just discovered null works on tuples :) or doesn't, in a way
2021-01-03 16:25:24 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-088-064-063-125.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:25:46 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.115.129.22.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:26:00 +0100 <geekosaur> so you just discovered Foldable on tuples
2021-01-03 16:26:30 +0100_ashbreeze_(~mark@64.85.214.234.reverse.socket.net)
2021-01-03 16:26:43 +0100 <xsperry> null on tuples is always false?
2021-01-03 16:27:39 +0100Shiranai(beed4728@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.190.237.71.40) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-01-03 16:27:59 +0100 <whataday> how to describe call function A inside function B, and call function B inside function A?
2021-01-03 16:31:48 +0100 <oats> whataday: mutual recursion?
2021-01-03 16:32:22 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@196.67.6.51.dyn.plus.net)
2021-01-03 16:32:32 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@196.67.6.51.dyn.plus.net) (Changing host)
2021-01-03 16:32:32 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2021-01-03 16:34:07 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c704e739101f4cb6fc9280ae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-03 16:34:16 +0100 <whataday> ok
2021-01-03 16:35:14 +0100ph88^(~ph88@2a02:8109:9e00:7e5c:5824:5a47:969d:fa33)
2021-01-03 16:36:28 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2021-01-03 16:39:30 +0100 <ij> xsperry, seems so
2021-01-03 16:39:57 +0100 <ij> geekosaur, yeah. :) ## xsperry, I expected it to be false on (), but it isn't a Foldable
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2021-01-03 16:58:30 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwenbxsjaehrjmmn)
2021-01-03 16:59:44 +0100 <whataday> how to remove all spaces except strings?
2021-01-03 17:00:10 +0100 <whataday> [a, b] to [a,b]
2021-01-03 17:00:36 +0100benschza(~quassel@2604:1380:2000:cf00::1)
2021-01-03 17:00:42 +0100 <whataday> [a, "b c"] to [a,"b c"]
2021-01-03 17:01:22 +0100 <xerox_> > concat . words $ "co nc ate n a t ed"
2021-01-03 17:01:24 +0100 <lambdabot> "concatenated"
2021-01-03 17:02:22 +0100hekkaidekapus{(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-01-03 17:02:22 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-01-03 17:02:45 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f436:5c08:84b:5c55)
2021-01-03 17:04:52 +0100 <geekosaur> xerox_, `words` doesn't know about strings
2021-01-03 17:05:16 +0100 <xerox_> true that
2021-01-03 17:07:00 +0100hexo(~hexo@gateway/tor-sasl/hexo)
2021-01-03 17:07:01 +0100madjestic(~Android@89-200-2-171.mobile.kpn.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-01-03 17:08:07 +0100denisse(~spaceCat@gateway/tor-sasl/alephzer0)
2021-01-03 17:08:10 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-01-03 17:08:17 +0100gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt)
2021-01-03 17:08:21 +0100jmchael(~jmchael@81.174.205.210)
2021-01-03 17:08:50 +0100madjestic(~Android@89-200-2-171.mobile.kpn.net)
2021-01-03 17:09:01 +0100jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55)
2021-01-03 17:09:03 +0100hekkaidekapus{(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
2021-01-03 17:09:06 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2021-01-03 17:09:13 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:58e3:7652:ce04:ac7d)
2021-01-03 17:09:59 +0100 <b4er> What will happen to "Hello\", \" World!"?
2021-01-03 17:09:59 +0100madjestic(~Android@89-200-2-171.mobile.kpn.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-03 17:10:07 +0100cantstanya(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya)
2021-01-03 17:10:16 +0100 <b4er> What about '\t' and all the other valid "spaces"?
2021-01-03 17:10:24 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 17:10:52 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64)
2021-01-03 17:11:00 +0100madjestic(~Android@86-88-72-244.fixed.kpn.net)
2021-01-03 17:11:04 +0100andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2021-01-03 17:11:37 +0100 <xerox_> if you want to support one or more levels of escaping I guess you have to roll your own thing
2021-01-03 17:12:02 +0100 <ij> the fact that [Right 1, Left ""] type-checks to [Either ..] feels like subtyping :)
2021-01-03 17:12:26 +0100 <xerox_> as for what spaces are eaten, words uses https://www.stackage.org/haddock/lts-16.27/base-4.13.0.0/Data-Char.html#v:isSpace
2021-01-03 17:12:28 +0100 <ij> ah, wait, but Right is either already :P
2021-01-03 17:12:30 +0100 <ij> this is no scala
2021-01-03 17:13:25 +0100 <dyeplexer> > putStrLn "Hello\", \" World!"
2021-01-03 17:13:28 +0100 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
2021-01-03 17:13:36 +0100 <dyeplexer> oops
2021-01-03 17:13:43 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:58e3:7652:ce04:ac7d) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-03 17:15:45 +0100 <b4er> ij, it's not that far away from [False, True] :: [Bool]
2021-01-03 17:16:07 +0100teardown_(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
2021-01-03 17:16:26 +0100 <ij> b4er, Right. I just thought that Right is a Right before it's coerced to Either like in scala, but this isn't scala :)
2021-01-03 17:18:34 +0100Widget(~widget@213.55.224.205)
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2021-01-03 18:15:12 +0100mouseghost(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) (Changing host)
2021-01-03 18:15:12 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek)
2021-01-03 18:15:22 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f436:5c08:84b:5c55) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 18:15:30 +0100rmk236(~lcampos@ip-37-201-210-153.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
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2021-01-03 18:19:07 +0100Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-092-191.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-01-03 18:21:22 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.115.130.71.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2021-01-03 18:22:21 +0100andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2021-01-03 18:22:59 +0100 <xsperry> @src Either
2021-01-03 18:22:59 +0100 <lambdabot> Source not found. Maybe if you used more than just two fingers...
2021-01-03 18:23:22 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f436:5c08:84b:5c55)
2021-01-03 18:23:32 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-03 18:23:40 +0100 <petersen> How is Stackage Nightly ghc-8.10 on Windows now?
2021-01-03 18:24:10 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-03 18:24:13 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::ee4f)
2021-01-03 18:25:16 +0100fryguybob(~fryguybob@cpe-74-65-31-113.rochester.res.rr.com)
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2021-01-03 18:26:20 +0100solonarv(~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-252-231.w92-161.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-01-03 18:27:55 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@76.217.43.73)
2021-01-03 18:28:51 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::ee4f) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-01-03 18:34:42 +0100 <sm[m]> a good chance it's good I'd say
2021-01-03 18:35:37 +0100crblmr(~carbolyme@matrix.dropacid.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-01-03 19:06:30 +0100falsifian(~falsifian@exoco.falsifian.org)
2021-01-03 19:07:27 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-01-03 19:08:06 +0100 <falsifian> On the libraries list, someone proposed some code that looks like "class (forall c d . Coercible c d => Coercible (f c) (f d)) ) => ...". What language feature is that using? I've never seen => inside the context for a class, and if I try to compile that with just RankNTypes, ghc complains "Malformed head of type or class declaration".
2021-01-03 19:08:37 +0100Guest5142(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-01-03 19:14:41 +0100 <EvanR> PolyKinds ?
2021-01-03 19:15:09 +0100 <falsifian> Just figured out it's QuantifiedConstraints, and after I fix unbalanced parentheses ghc suggests that.
2021-01-03 19:15:13 +0100 <petersen> sm[m]: so 8.10.3 is better than 8.10.2?
2021-01-03 19:15:27 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 19:15:58 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:58e3:7652:ce04:ac7d)
2021-01-03 19:16:08 +0100 <dsal> petersen: It's a bigger number. Newer is always better.
2021-01-03 19:16:20 +0100 <petersen> hehe ok
2021-01-03 19:17:14 +0100 <petersen> I had the impression 8.10.2 was a bit broken on Windows, at least in some cases
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2021-01-03 19:20:13 +0100 <petersen> particularly linking
2021-01-03 19:20:15 +0100AlleriaGuest82752
2021-01-03 19:20:43 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@176.78.51.169)
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2021-01-03 19:22:05 +0100 <dsal> I don't know anything about Windows. I've seen it in the wild a few times. heh
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2021-01-03 19:38:47 +0100 <koz_> petersen: IIRC, 8.10.3 was partly to fix said issues?
2021-01-03 19:39:40 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
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2021-01-03 19:44:32 +0100 <sm[m]> petersen: yes, 8.10.3 is supposed to fix windows issues
2021-01-03 19:44:38 +0100 <sm[m]> why not try it.
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2021-01-03 20:48:03 +0100larryba(~bc812391@217.29.117.252)
2021-01-03 20:48:49 +0100dandart1dandart
2021-01-03 20:48:53 +0100 <larryba> hi. how can I access webcam in haskell on windows? hopefully there's some crossplatform library, so that I don't have to resort to winapi. google is only giving me links to Graphics.Webcam.Linux
2021-01-03 20:49:21 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-100-102.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-01-03 20:49:42 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d16b6b9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-01-03 20:49:50 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-01-03 20:50:14 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-01-03 20:50:16 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:942d:48f2:8bcc:9c19) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 20:50:46 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809) (Client Quit)
2021-01-03 20:51:49 +0100 <idnar> wow, compiling this module with -O1 uses like 10 GB of memory
2021-01-03 20:53:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 20:53:29 +0100 <koz_> idnar: Which module?
2021-01-03 20:53:42 +0100 <koz_> larryba: There is, as far as I know, no cross-platform way to do this _in general_.
2021-01-03 20:53:50 +0100BaneAliens(~BaneAlien@cpe-75-82-164-119.socal.res.rr.com)
2021-01-03 20:53:57 +0100 <koz_> Unless there's a cross-platform C library you could wrap?
2021-01-03 20:54:18 +0100 <idnar> koz_: it's in my own private codebase
2021-01-03 20:54:43 +0100 <larryba> opencv can do it supposedly, but it has not been updated on hackage in the past 2 years
2021-01-03 20:55:19 +0100 <koz_> larryba: I dunno about OpenCV.
2021-01-03 20:55:26 +0100 <koz_> It might be worth trying.
2021-01-03 20:55:37 +0100 <koz_> (however, given the difficulty of C libraries and Windows, I'm not sure it's easier)
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2021-01-03 21:24:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> idnar: please don't inflict that module on the casual haskell user
2021-01-03 21:25:05 +0100tomsmedingwas already complaining about aeson's 2GB memory usage at compile time or something
2021-01-03 21:27:49 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-03 21:28:14 +0100koz_laughs in pandoc.
2021-01-03 21:28:29 +0100 <idnar> tomsmeding: heh. I think it might be a combination of Data.Generics.Labels and some deep inlining; I still need to check out the STG to see how well this code optimizes
2021-01-03 21:30:10 +0100adamwespiser(~adamwespi@209.6.43.158)
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2021-01-03 21:30:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> koz_: fortunately, pandoc is not a dependency of ircbrowse, so I don't need to compile it on a cheap VPS with 1GB of RAM
2021-01-03 21:30:55 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: _Un_fortunately, we accept that kind of RAM usage.
2021-01-03 21:30:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> and don't say that I should compile it to a static executable locally, I'm lazy
2021-01-03 21:31:34 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: Ehh.
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2021-01-03 21:32:02 +0100ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2021-01-03 21:32:17 +0100 <koz_> Is there a way to build 32-bit executables on x86_64 using GHC?
2021-01-03 21:32:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> Is there a way to build 32-bit executables using GHC?
2021-01-03 21:33:07 +0100 <__monty__> Yes, I've built a 32-bit taskell.
2021-01-03 21:33:16 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-03 21:33:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> with a recent ghc
2021-01-03 21:33:26 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-01-03 21:33:31 +0100 <__monty__> Probably 8.6.5
2021-01-03 21:33:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> there was _something_ to do with 32-bit stuff that was dropped recently, but I forget what
2021-01-03 21:34:01 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: Ideally with a recent GHC, but I'll take anything.
2021-01-03 21:34:05 +0100 <exarkun> idnar: I'm curious what kind of stuff you do with Haskell
2021-01-03 21:34:06 +0100 <dfeuer> There's definitely still 32-bit GHC.
2021-01-03 21:34:23 +0100 <dfeuer> I can't answer the cross-compilation question myself. Maybe ask in #ghc?
2021-01-03 21:35:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> apparently there's at least an official linux x86 build: https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_8_10_3.html
2021-01-03 21:35:34 +0100 <tomsmeding> koz_: I wonder what would happen if you'd just run that on your x86_64 machine
2021-01-03 21:35:43 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: A good question.
2021-01-03 21:35:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> probably linker trouble
2021-01-03 21:35:52 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-100-102.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-01-03 21:36:17 +0100 <geekosaur> missing 32-bit shared libs
2021-01-03 21:36:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> those are easily installed
2021-01-03 21:37:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> I believe for most linux distros there's an official or semi-official repository for 32-bit packages
2021-01-03 21:37:08 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 21:37:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> though, true, that would happen at first :p
2021-01-03 21:37:33 +0100 <geekosaur> sure but you assume they all use the same versions
2021-01-03 21:37:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> as ghc you mean?
2021-01-03 21:37:58 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d16b6b9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-03 21:38:02 +0100 <geekosaur> distros
2021-01-03 21:38:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> true
2021-01-03 21:38:19 +0100 <geekosaur> there's only one i386 build left iirc, it's deb9
2021-01-03 21:38:21 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-01-03 21:38:27 +0100 <geekosaur> which may not help much on fedora
2021-01-03 21:38:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> that is certainly a good point
2021-01-03 21:39:10 +0100BaneAliens(~BaneAlien@cpe-75-82-164-119.socal.res.rr.com)
2021-01-03 21:40:16 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@75-172-99-84.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-01-03 21:40:28 +0100 <idnar> exarkun: this codebase does, uh, not-exactly-high frequency trading
2021-01-03 21:41:16 +0100 <exarkun> heh
2021-01-03 21:41:21 +0100 <exarkun> for fun or for profit? :)
2021-01-03 21:42:49 +0100 <idnar> for (my own) profit, but it's been fun to work on :)
2021-01-03 21:43:09 +0100 <koz_> idnar: So, _literally_ 'for fun and profit'?
2021-01-03 21:43:50 +0100 <idnar> other than that I have some hobby projects like https://www.isaacranks.com/
2021-01-03 21:44:13 +0100 <idnar> koz_: indeed!
2021-01-03 21:44:28 +0100 <koz_> That has to be the first time I could use that expression in the literal.
2021-01-03 21:44:35 +0100 <koz_> I guess 2021 is a year of firsts?
2021-01-03 21:46:00 +0100 <idnar> (<https://github.com/mithrandi/isaacranks>)
2021-01-03 21:48:01 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
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2021-01-03 21:57:23 +0100 <sm[m]> fun and profit ! Amen to that ! 👍🏻
2021-01-03 21:57:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-03 21:58:00 +0100 <sm[m]> I'd like to make one of those
2021-01-03 22:02:29 +0100 <sm[m]> (A fun-and-profit project.)
2021-01-03 22:03:03 +0100cads2(~cads@ip-64-72-99-232.lasvegas.net)
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2021-01-03 22:07:30 +0100 <exarkun> idnar: cool thanks for the link
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2021-01-03 22:20:22 +0100 <idnar> exarkun: <https://github.com/mithrandi/my-kube/tree/master/manifests-base/isaacranks> <https://github.com/mithrandi/my-kube/tree/master/manifests/isaacranks-prod> possibly of related interest
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2021-01-03 23:42:20 +0100muku79(~dh@2001:16b8:a024:6200:b4dc:df80:172c:8f7)
2021-01-03 23:42:21 +0100muku79(~dh@2001:16b8:a024:6200:b4dc:df80:172c:8f7) ()
2021-01-03 23:42:42 +0100muku79(~dh@2001:16b8:a024:6200:b4dc:df80:172c:8f7)
2021-01-03 23:43:45 +0100 <muku79> Sorry, I have a question, why does 'try (readIO <$> getLine)' not catch exceptions, see https://pastebin.com/FsLKqpET
2021-01-03 23:44:16 +0100 <muku79> try (getLine >>= readIO) though works
2021-01-03 23:45:23 +0100 <b4er> :t readIO <$> getLine
2021-01-03 23:45:25 +0100 <lambdabot> Read a => IO (IO a)
2021-01-03 23:45:46 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 23:47:00 +0100 <muku79> So exceptions in the inner IO are not caught_
2021-01-03 23:47:03 +0100 <muku79> ?
2021-01-03 23:47:36 +0100 <Rembane> The inner IO is probably not even run.
2021-01-03 23:47:41 +0100 <b4er> The `readIO` is not evaluated at all
2021-01-03 23:48:06 +0100 <muku79> I am assuming it is throwing a parse error
2021-01-03 23:48:09 +0100 <Rembane> Try this: `try (join (fmap readIO getLine))
2021-01-03 23:48:11 +0100 <Rembane> `
2021-01-03 23:48:15 +0100philopsos(~caecilius@gateway/tor-sasl/caecilius)
2021-01-03 23:48:39 +0100 <b4er> If you closed stdin it should catch it because then `getLine` fails
2021-01-03 23:49:20 +0100 <b4er> :t getLine >>= readIO
2021-01-03 23:49:21 +0100 <lambdabot> Read b => IO b
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2021-01-03 23:50:15 +0100 <muku79> for "try (readIO <$> getLine)" it just crashes if the parse in readIO fails
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2021-01-03 23:50:21 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@98.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-03 23:51:12 +0100 <muku79> I thought it `try` is used, then no exceptins could escape
2021-01-03 23:51:15 +0100 <muku79> try (readIO <$> getLine) :: IO (Either SomeException (IO Integer))
2021-01-03 23:51:39 +0100 <muku79> In this particular case I was parsing Integer
2021-01-03 23:51:47 +0100 <muku79> when entering strings it crashes
2021-01-03 23:51:54 +0100 <muku79> try will not catch the exception
2021-01-03 23:52:02 +0100 <b4er> But `readIO <$> getLine` doesn't exception when parsing fails, that will happen later
2021-01-03 23:53:19 +0100 <b4er> If all goes well (ie. stdin is open/getLine succeeds) you still have an `IO Integer`..
2021-01-03 23:53:56 +0100 <b4er> That will throw an exception if parsing fails
2021-01-03 23:54:47 +0100 <b4er> `x <$> y` and `y >>= x` are two quite different things
2021-01-03 23:55:03 +0100 <muku79> What is different between `MCE.try (readIO <$> getLine) :: IO (Either SomeException (IO Integer))` and `MCE.try (getLine >>= readIO) :: IO (Either SomeException Integer)
2021-01-03 23:55:32 +0100 <muku79> The latter one, the `try` works as I had expected it
2021-01-03 23:55:50 +0100 <muku79> getLine got a string
2021-01-03 23:55:51 +0100 <b4er> One is a pure Integer that is parsed, the other one an Integer that might still cause exceptions.
2021-01-03 23:55:56 +0100wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-01-03 23:56:23 +0100 <b4er> Pretty much what you observe actually.
2021-01-03 23:57:39 +0100wagle(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2021-01-03 23:57:57 +0100 <muku79> So the `try` in (readIO <$> getLine) only covers for the getLine?
2021-01-03 23:58:36 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2021-01-03 23:59:20 +0100 <b4er> Yes, for all we know the inner `IO Integer` might never be evaluated. The exception happens later
2021-01-03 23:59:22 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:2101:f3dc:9b10:842c) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-01-03 23:59:45 +0100 <muku79> Thank you for the explanation.