IRCBrowse

2020/10/11

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2020-10-11 01:35:27 +0200hackageoplang 0.1.0.0 - Compiler for OpLang, an esoteric programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/oplang-0.1.0.0 (aionescu)
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2020-10-11 02:00:01 +0200gchaix(~gchaix@185.204.1.185) ()
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2020-10-11 02:19:26 +0200 <c_wraith> huh. I'm looking at some core because I wanted to verify that ghc would evaluate a (,,) constructor strictly even though it's not actually forced, because it's used immediately in a recursive call that pattern-matches on it...
2020-10-11 02:19:41 +0200 <c_wraith> Turns out GHC just plain removed the tuple entirely.
2020-10-11 02:20:08 +0200 <c_wraith> It just unpacked it into three arguments instead of one.
2020-10-11 02:20:53 +0200 <dolio> Yeah, it does that sort of thing.
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2020-10-11 03:37:58 +0200hackageflat-mcmc 1.5.2 - Painless general-purpose sampling. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flat-mcmc-1.5.2 (JaredTobin)
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2020-10-11 03:51:08 +0200 <Tario> greetings
2020-10-11 03:51:09 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
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2020-10-11 03:53:11 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 03:53:31 +0200 <Tario> QQ: if I have a JSON that's has the following body:
2020-10-11 03:53:32 +0200 <Tario> {
2020-10-11 03:53:32 +0200 <Tario> "a": "blabla",
2020-10-11 03:53:32 +0200 <Tario> "b" : 24
2020-10-11 03:53:32 +0200 <Tario> }
2020-10-11 03:53:32 +0200 <Tario> How can I obtain with aeson the value from the key "a" as a Text, in the simplest way possible?
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2020-10-11 04:01:49 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: T.take 6 . T.drop 8 :)
2020-10-11 04:02:27 +0200them_(~them_@178.162.204.214) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 04:03:58 +0200 <int-e> lemmih: I'm pretty sure that 8 would be too small :P
2020-10-11 04:04:23 +0200 <int-e> (I counted 9, maybe 10 with cr/lf newlines)
2020-10-11 04:06:29 +0200 <lemmih> Hm, right. The JSON is therefore broken. Gotta delete a space or newline.
2020-10-11 04:07:56 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: If you don't want to fix the JSON then you can use 'aeson' instead.
2020-10-11 04:08:34 +0200 <Tario> oh
2020-10-11 04:09:38 +0200emmanuel`(~user@2604:2000:1382:ce03:45b7:e6dc:91ed:9e53)
2020-10-11 04:10:27 +0200hackageproject-m36 0.8.1 - Relational Algebra Engine https://hackage.haskell.org/package/project-m36-0.8.1 (agentm)
2020-10-11 04:12:21 +0200 <c_wraith> This is one of those awkward things, where lens-aeson makes the task look like a super-tiny bit of code... But if you have problems, you suddenly need to understand lens.
2020-10-11 04:14:57 +0200emmanuel`(~user@2604:2000:1382:ce03:45b7:e6dc:91ed:9e53) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 04:15:29 +0200 <Tario> yes, I've tried using aeson, but still I'm too novice to comprehend it, but I'm still trying.
2020-10-11 04:15:29 +0200 <Tario> Like when presented with a JSON like
2020-10-11 04:15:29 +0200 <Tario> { "name": "John", "age" : 54}
2020-10-11 04:15:29 +0200 <Tario> I would like to obtain the Text value from the "name" key. I tried to do
2020-10-11 04:15:30 +0200 <Tario> let name = myJson .: "name"
2020-10-11 04:15:30 +0200 <Tario> Or
2020-10-11 04:15:31 +0200 <Tario> HashMap.lookup "name" myJson
2020-10-11 04:15:32 +0200 <Tario> but that doesn't work
2020-10-11 04:16:07 +0200lagothrix(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (Killed (beckett.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2020-10-11 04:16:16 +0200lagothrix(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix)
2020-10-11 04:16:18 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-11 04:16:23 +0200 <Tario> (I'm really new to Haskell, and it's been a learning experience. It's a really interesting language)
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2020-10-11 04:23:23 +0200nshepperd(~nshepperd@gorgon.zlkj.in)
2020-10-11 04:27:39 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: The simplest way might be: parseMaybe (.: "name") =<< decode your_input :: Maybe Text
2020-10-11 04:28:42 +0200theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-081.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-11 04:29:23 +0200todda7(~torstein@athedsl-218389.home.otenet.gr)
2020-10-11 04:29:25 +0200 <ski> Rembane : Standford course ?
2020-10-11 04:30:06 +0200 <ski> dolio : "GHCs capability to both inline or let-float, is that not using the symmetric proprety of equality?","mmm.. no I guess not","Well, but transitivity is assumed by the fact that the simplifier could repeatedly inline, and it's valid because equivalence is transitive." -- that's about `=', not about `=='
2020-10-11 04:30:29 +0200theDon(~td@94.134.91.169)
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2020-10-11 04:35:53 +0200 <Tario> lemmih: That would return a Nothing in case of being invalid or Just "John", in this case, correct?
2020-10-11 04:36:11 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: Yeah, I think so.
2020-10-11 04:36:31 +0200 <Tario> I think that works, I'm going to give it a try in a bit in my tiny personal project
2020-10-11 04:36:40 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:a0ec:19b9:a607:ec5) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 04:36:45 +0200 <Tario> Thank you!
2020-10-11 04:36:54 +0200dead10cc(63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207)
2020-10-11 04:37:20 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:7cf8:46a0:1918:e607)
2020-10-11 04:37:52 +0200 <Tario> I'm going to give it a try shortly, Thank you, lemmih!
2020-10-11 04:38:41 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 04:38:49 +0200yahb(xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb)
2020-10-11 04:41:39 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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2020-10-11 05:00:16 +0200emmanuel`(~user@2604:2000:1382:ce03:45b7:e6dc:91ed:9e53)
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2020-10-11 05:02:35 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@216-211-57-41.dynamic.tbaytel.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-11 05:04:14 +0200arguapacha(uid134895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sboxpzndwsrzuwvp)
2020-10-11 05:05:21 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-10-11 05:08:44 +0200barzo(~sosal@212.154.68.77) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 05:10:20 +0200 <dsal> Tario: The simplest way is probably just to make a type that has the matching fields and let Aeson populate a value for you. The easiest way is probably lens-aeson.
2020-10-11 05:11:06 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 05:11:34 +0200 <Tario> dsal: ok, that I think I can do
2020-10-11 05:11:42 +0200Dungdv(3abba8c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.58.187.168.193)
2020-10-11 05:12:05 +0200 <dsal> λ> "{ \"name\": \"John\", \"age\" : 54}" ^? key "name" . _String -> Just "John"
2020-10-11 05:12:26 +0200 <Tario> I'll explain with more detail in my other device (who's also connected to the channel, but by the name of Kiraaa)
2020-10-11 05:12:34 +0200 <Kiraaaa> ok im here
2020-10-11 05:12:41 +0200 <dsal> Hey, we were just talking about you.
2020-10-11 05:12:59 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@216-211-57-41.dynamic.tbaytel.net)
2020-10-11 05:13:04 +0200 <Kiraaaa> really?
2020-10-11 05:15:20 +0200 <Kiraaaa> for a tiny login, POST endpoint, I was thinking of creating a data type like this,
2020-10-11 05:15:24 +0200 <Kiraaaa> data LoginData = LoginData {
2020-10-11 05:15:26 +0200 <Kiraaaa> email :: Text
2020-10-11 05:15:28 +0200 <Kiraaaa> , password :: Text
2020-10-11 05:15:30 +0200 <dolio> ski: I think you tagged the wrong person.
2020-10-11 05:15:31 +0200 <Kiraaaa> }
2020-10-11 05:15:58 +0200 <ski> oh
2020-10-11 05:16:01 +0200 <ski> so i did, sorry
2020-10-11 05:16:17 +0200 <ski> dminuoso ^
2020-10-11 05:16:20 +0200 <Kiraaaa> with the following instances:
2020-10-11 05:16:23 +0200 <Kiraaaa> instance FromJSON LoginData
2020-10-11 05:16:24 +0200ski's a bit sleepy ..
2020-10-11 05:16:24 +0200 <Kiraaaa> instance ToJSON LoginData
2020-10-11 05:17:03 +0200 <Kiraaaa> so inside my POST handler, I wanted to perform the following:
2020-10-11 05:17:14 +0200 <Kiraaaa> my login POST handler*
2020-10-11 05:18:42 +0200 <Kiraaaa> pass a Handler Value, obtain the inputted json body with requirecheckjsonbody :: Handler LoginData (not sure if this was the right choice)
2020-10-11 05:19:08 +0200 <Kiraaaa> sort of like this:
2020-10-11 05:19:10 +0200 <Kiraaaa> postUserLoginR :: Handler Value
2020-10-11 05:19:11 +0200 <Kiraaaa> postUserLoginR = do
2020-10-11 05:19:13 +0200 <Kiraaaa> newLogin <- requireCheckJsonBody :: Handler Value
2020-10-11 05:19:25 +0200 <Kiraaaa> (ignore the last Handler Value, it should be Handler LoginData in my mind)
2020-10-11 05:19:30 +0200 <dsal> You can use a pastebin if you have a bunch of stuff you want to share without flooding out the whole channel.
2020-10-11 05:19:41 +0200 <Kiraaaa> oh
2020-10-11 05:19:56 +0200 <Kiraaaa> will do, it will be better
2020-10-11 05:22:02 +0200 <Kiraaaa> https://pastebin.com/gVwZiH2Z
2020-10-11 05:23:15 +0200 <Kiraaaa> so this was my attempt at getting the json body from a POST request for a simple login, for now I wanted to obtain the email from the object, and perform a query to obtain an user binded to that email address
2020-10-11 05:23:47 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:3beb)
2020-10-11 05:25:24 +0200 <Kiraaaa> leading up to this: https://pastebin.com/CBrSPXPT
2020-10-11 05:25:33 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:3beb) (Client Quit)
2020-10-11 05:28:33 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98)
2020-10-11 05:28:39 +0200 <Kiraaaa> however, that did not work
2020-10-11 05:30:19 +0200 <Kiraaaa> (due to type errors between Value and HashMap Text Value)
2020-10-11 05:32:10 +0200mdunnio(~mdunnio@208.59.170.5)
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2020-10-11 05:35:04 +0200taurux(~taurux@net-188-152-104-194.cust.vodafonedsl.it)
2020-10-11 05:39:51 +0200 <Kiraaaa> this is where I got stuck, thinking on how to parse that value from the JSON (or any value from its key)
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2020-10-11 06:04:08 +0200__ngua(~rory@2402:800:6379:81de:c01f:8864:9ffb:a477)
2020-10-11 06:04:46 +0200 <Kiraaaa> *back to Tario (other device)
2020-10-11 06:04:49 +0200emmanuel`(~user@2604:2000:1382:ce03:45b7:e6dc:91ed:9e53) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 06:04:57 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:3beb)
2020-10-11 06:04:57 +0200 <Tario> back
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2020-10-11 08:00:01 +0200openstackstatus1(~openstack@84.39.117.57) ()
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2020-10-11 09:04:58 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-10-11 09:05:33 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: It would be easier to help you if you pasted the error together with the code.
2020-10-11 09:07:20 +0200 <lemmih> Tario: You're doing something which should just work. If it doesn't then you've made a typo or a type error somewhere. But we can't help you if don't show us what is wrong.
2020-10-11 09:10:31 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.96.130)
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2020-10-11 09:20:57 +0200hackagecommander-cli 0.10.1.2 - A command line argument/option parser library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/commander-cli-0.10.1.2 (sgschlesinger)
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2020-10-11 10:33:37 +0200jedii(~g@209.6.150.53)
2020-10-11 10:33:47 +0200 <jedii> happstack anyone here using it?
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2020-10-11 10:36:49 +0200Dungdv(3abba8c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.58.187.168.193) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-11 10:38:38 +0200Guest40023lep-delete
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2020-10-11 10:44:15 +0200Gerula(~Gerula@unaffiliated/gerula) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-11 10:44:25 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> jedii: Yes!
2020-10-11 10:48:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 10:54:02 +0200drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-144.static.apol.com.tw) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 10:54:17 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0)
2020-10-11 10:55:52 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 10:56:18 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0)
2020-10-11 10:57:52 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-11 11:00:01 +0200Moe_Epsilon(~Moe_Epsil@178.162.204.214) ()
2020-10-11 11:00:13 +0200vaibhavsagar(vaibhavsag@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dzrnwheyyrqqkaxx) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-10-11 11:01:11 +0200z0k(~user@101.50.127.2)
2020-10-11 11:04:35 +0200 <jedii> how si it? what happens when db grows? how multi box? or do you write app to have difernt db on diff box?
2020-10-11 11:07:53 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> I haven't used it for anything that complicated
2020-10-11 11:08:32 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.96.130) (Quit: Exeunt)
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2020-10-11 11:22:47 +0200proofofme(~proofofme@184-96-74-65.hlrn.qwest.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 11:22:59 +0200albert_91(~Albert@p54baa3ee.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 11:24:18 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.48.187.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-10-11 11:40:27 +0200hackageformatting 7.0.0.2 - Combinator-based type-safe formatting (like printf() or FORMAT) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/formatting-7.0.0.2 (AlexChapman)
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2020-10-11 11:47:51 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-10-11 11:48:02 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@d54C03E98.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-11 11:48:02 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@d54C03E98.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 11:48:02 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-11 11:49:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-11 11:50:12 +0200nursen(b028fb3d@176.40.251.61)
2020-10-11 11:53:25 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 11:55:57 +0200Zao_(~Zao_@185.163.110.116)
2020-10-11 11:56:38 +0200polyrain_(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:40a4:93eb:228a:29f)
2020-10-11 11:56:57 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.115.130.224.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-10-11 11:59:52 +0200polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:e9b6:7f48:3ad5:f302) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:00:30 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 12:02:13 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host165-120-169-97.range165-120.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:02:28 +0200hackagehedis 0.12.15 - Client library for the Redis datastore: supports full command set,pipelining. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hedis-0.12.15 (k_bx)
2020-10-11 12:03:33 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98)
2020-10-11 12:05:07 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:08:34 +0200 <ggVGc> so, what's the state of refactoring of haskell today? Is HaRe just dead?
2020-10-11 12:08:40 +0200 <ggVGc> and we have no alternative? :/
2020-10-11 12:08:45 +0200 <ggVGc> or am I missing something
2020-10-11 12:15:06 +0200kori(~kori@2804:14c:85a3:9105::1000)
2020-10-11 12:15:06 +0200kori(~kori@2804:14c:85a3:9105::1000) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 12:15:06 +0200kori(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-10-11 12:17:41 +0200 <Uniaika> ggVGc: you've got a mixture of hlint and retrie https://engineering.fb.com/open-source/retrie/
2020-10-11 12:17:50 +0200 <Uniaika> the latter of which is available as a plugin in HLS
2020-10-11 12:18:24 +0200rprije(~rprije@203.214.95.251) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:20:40 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-11 12:22:13 +0200avdb(~avdb@ip-83-134-31-215.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-10-11 12:23:25 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:24:43 +0200clog(~nef@bespin.org)
2020-10-11 12:27:27 +0200hackageinline-c 0.9.1.3 - Write Haskell source files including C code inline. No FFI required. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/inline-c-0.9.1.3 (FrancescoMazzoli)
2020-10-11 12:27:56 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:36:37 +0200GyroW_(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-11 12:36:38 +0200GyroW_(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 12:36:38 +0200GyroW_(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
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2020-10-11 12:40:09 +0200knupfer1(~Thunderbi@i5E86B4BF.versanet.de)
2020-10-11 12:40:34 +0200gienah(~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-11 12:43:02 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a72cce01591a8a38471548a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:45:08 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-11 12:45:34 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-10-11 12:45:57 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:46:35 +0200AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2020-10-11 12:49:27 +0200polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889)
2020-10-11 12:50:06 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:55:27 +0200hackagepath-dhall-instance 0.2.1.0 - ToDhall and FromDhall instances for Path. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/path-dhall-instance-0.2.1.0 (locallycompact)
2020-10-11 12:57:39 +0200Dolly(585fc8fd@ti0203q160-3035.bb.online.no)
2020-10-11 12:58:25 +0200polyrain_(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:40a4:93eb:228a:29f) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 12:58:53 +0200polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:3884:1325:3643:26b7)
2020-10-11 12:59:39 +0200__ngua(~rory@2402:800:6379:81de:c01f:8864:9ffb:a477)
2020-10-11 13:02:58 +0200polyrain_(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:446:e021:d31d:6378)
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2020-10-11 13:06:18 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
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2020-10-11 13:18:27 +0200hackageheterocephalus 1.0.5.4 - A type-safe template engine for working with front end development tools https://hackage.haskell.org/package/heterocephalus-1.0.5.4 (arowM)
2020-10-11 13:22:10 +0200mcc(~pbodev1@5-15-16-231.residential.rdsnet.ro)
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2020-10-11 13:36:27 +0200drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-33.static.apol.com.tw) (Client Quit)
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2020-10-11 13:43:58 +0200hekkaidekapus_(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
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2020-10-11 13:49:47 +0200GyroW_(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-10-11 13:49:58 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@d54C03E98.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-11 13:49:58 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@d54C03E98.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 13:49:58 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-11 13:52:14 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912)
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2020-10-11 13:59:07 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@c83-254-232-167.bredband.comhem.se)
2020-10-11 14:00:03 +0200Zao_(~Zao_@185.163.110.116) ()
2020-10-11 14:01:00 +0200djellemah(~djellemah@2601:5c2:100:96c:e008:b638:39fe:6a54)
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2020-10-11 14:30:02 +0200teehemkay_teehemkay
2020-10-11 14:30:16 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 14:30:18 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82cf0b10051bc6530a94acd18.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-10-11 14:31:21 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d176049.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2020-10-11 14:33:44 +0200m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-046-005-177-122.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-10-11 14:37:44 +0200albert_91(~Albert@p54baa3ee.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-11 14:37:55 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 14:39:35 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@104.140.53.43)
2020-10-11 14:41:37 +0200nyd(~lpy@unaffiliated/elysian) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-11 14:44:00 +0200coot(~coot@78-10-221-32.static.ip.netia.com.pl)
2020-10-11 14:45:58 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@104.140.53.43) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 14:46:58 +0200gienah(~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah)
2020-10-11 14:47:20 +0200Dungdv(3abba8c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.58.187.168.193)
2020-10-11 14:47:28 +0200hackageunliftio-path 0.0.1.0 - UnliftIO using well-typed Paths. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unliftio-path-0.0.1.0 (locallycompact)
2020-10-11 14:53:21 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@c83-254-232-167.bredband.comhem.se)
2020-10-11 14:55:56 +0200coot(~coot@78-10-221-32.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Quit: coot)
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2020-10-11 14:58:23 +0200polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:bd82:3610:25a3:1eac) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-11 15:00:08 +0200Dolly(585fc8fd@ti0203q160-3035.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 15:00:58 +0200nyd(~lpy@unaffiliated/elysian)
2020-10-11 15:02:12 +0200nursen(b028fb3d@176.40.251.61) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 15:02:38 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 15:07:04 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 15:10:03 +0200renzhi(~renzhi@modemcable070.17-177-173.mc.videotron.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 15:10:28 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50)
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2020-10-11 15:12:20 +0200nyd(~lpy@unaffiliated/elysian) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 15:13:58 +0200hackageunliftio-path 0.0.2.0 - UnliftIO using well-typed Paths. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unliftio-path-0.0.2.0 (locallycompact)
2020-10-11 15:14:07 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 15:15:28 +0200hackageaeson-combinators 0.0.3.0 - Aeson combinators for dead simple JSON decoding https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-combinators-0.0.3.0 (MarekFajkus)
2020-10-11 15:15:34 +0200alehander92_(sid331460@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-irhogbomtyruxzho) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2020-10-11 15:28:28 +0200mjevans-(~mjevans-@84.39.117.57)
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2020-10-11 15:31:13 +0200avdb(~avdb@ip-83-134-31-215.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
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2020-10-11 16:07:32 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net)
2020-10-11 16:12:06 +0200fendor_(~fendor@178.165.131.49.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2020-10-11 16:13:13 +0200urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2020-10-11 16:13:20 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 16:13:42 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@c83-254-232-167.bredband.comhem.se)
2020-10-11 16:14:25 +0200fendor(~fendor@178.115.130.224.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 16:15:31 +0200 <dwts> quick question to all of you lambda wizards. Supposing we have this expression: (λx.x)(λy.y)z , are (λy.y) and z two arguments that λx accepts or is it that λx accepts one argument, λy which itself accepts another argument z ?
2020-10-11 16:16:32 +0200 <hpc> (λx.x) takes (λy.y), then the /result/ of that is what takes z
2020-10-11 16:16:42 +0200 <dwts> ok
2020-10-11 16:16:52 +0200 <dwts> so both x and y lambdas accept one argument
2020-10-11 16:18:52 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-11 16:24:42 +0200 <ski> yes
2020-10-11 16:26:32 +0200 <merijn> *all* lambdas accept only one argument
2020-10-11 16:27:01 +0200 <merijn> We just sometimes use syntactic short hand where we skip the boilerplate and write "as if" they took multiple
2020-10-11 16:27:57 +0200 <dwts> yeah, the book made that clear in the first pages that all lambdas accept only one argument, but the way it's written confused me to think that it accepts two
2020-10-11 16:32:05 +0200tsrt^(tsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2020-10-11 16:33:05 +0200Noldorin(~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin)
2020-10-11 16:33:31 +0200caef^(caef@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
2020-10-11 16:33:48 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> Hmm, careful. The correct parenthesisation is ((λx.x)(λy.y))z. As I understood it your question was about that.
2020-10-11 16:35:22 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 16:35:34 +0200 <dwts> tomjaguarpaw: hmm okay
2020-10-11 16:35:41 +0200 <dwts> yeah, my question was about that
2020-10-11 16:35:58 +0200 <dwts> trying to figure out how to "read" this expressions properly
2020-10-11 16:36:47 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.161.98) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2020-10-11 16:37:02 +0200 <merijn> Everything's left associative, so as tomjaguarpaw says "\y.y" is passed to "\x.x" and "z" is passed to the result of that
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2020-10-11 16:37:18 +0200jtojnar(jtojnarmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-usgrtgvgawipzskz)
2020-10-11 16:37:51 +0200 <dwts> yup, that makes sense now, the confusion comes from slightly more "complex" expressions but I'll get there I guess :)
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2020-10-11 17:00:01 +0200mjevans-(~mjevans-@84.39.117.57) ()
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2020-10-11 17:10:57 +0200hackagearch-hs 0.3.0.0 - Distribute hackage packages to archlinux https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arch-hs-0.3.0.0 (berberman)
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2020-10-11 17:23:52 +0200 <Tario> lemmih: yes, I'll post the error I'm receiving from GHC
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2020-10-11 18:24:51 +0200 <dminuoso> What's the relationship between sum types and existentials? It occured to me that there's a similar theme going on. That is, some `f :: T -> ∃x. x` and `g :: T -> G :+: H` behave somewhat similarly, and consuming them requires being able to handle "all possible values"
2020-10-11 18:25:21 +0200 <dminuoso> (Except that with existentials, they seem to behave more like open sum types)
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2020-10-11 18:26:43 +0200 <dminuoso> And equivalently, some `h :: G :+: H -> T` seems similar to `i :: ∀x. x -> T`
2020-10-11 18:28:01 +0200 <dminuoso> Of course, it makes more sense to probably constrain the existential/universal quantification, so say `f :: T -> ∃x. C x *> x` and `i :: ∀x. C x => x -> T`
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2020-10-11 18:29:28 +0200hackagehwk 0.3 - Simple Haskell-based awk-like tool https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hwk-0.3 (JensPetersen)
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2020-10-11 18:33:27 +0200hackagepandoc 2.11 - Conversion between markup formats https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pandoc-2.11 (JohnMacFarlane)
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2020-10-11 18:42:06 +0200 <ski> dminuoso : roughly, sums and existentials are "positive", products, exponentials, and universals are "negative"
2020-10-11 18:42:49 +0200 <ski> (btw, did you see what i responded, earlier ?)
2020-10-11 18:44:07 +0200 <dminuoso> ski: No I did not
2020-10-11 18:44:34 +0200 <ski> "GHCs capability to both inline or let-float, is that not using the symmetric proprety of equality?","mmm.. no I guess not","Well, but transitivity is assumed by the fact that the simplifier could repeatedly inline, and it's valid because equivalence is transitive." -- that's about `=', not about `=='
2020-10-11 18:44:55 +0200 <dminuoso> 12:15:58 dminuoso | ski: I guess its two fold since Haskell implementations to assume reflexivity and transitivity of (=) at least.
2020-10-11 18:45:06 +0200 <dminuoso> I assumed it was clear from that previous line that I was referring to (=).
2020-10-11 18:45:17 +0200 <ski> yes, it was
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2020-10-11 18:46:46 +0200Majiir(~Majiir@2601:18c:ca00:a400:211:32ff:fe42:6eda)
2020-10-11 18:47:58 +0200 <ski> (but what i was talking about, before, was Haskell implementations (as opposed to libraries) not relying on having the laws hold for `==' (as opposed to for `='))
2020-10-11 18:48:46 +0200phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul)
2020-10-11 18:50:05 +0200 <ski> (i guess maybe we were talking past each other, a bit, at the end ? i was still on the distinction between `==' and `=', and how, if you treat them as talking about the same notion of equality, you have to do something more, when simulating quotient types as abstract data types, like Mercury does)
2020-10-11 18:50:58 +0200 <ski> anyway, sums and existentials are "lower adjoints", while products, exponentials, and universals are "upper adjoints"
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2020-10-11 19:15:57 +0200 <dminuoso> ski: lower/upper adjoints of what?
2020-10-11 19:16:03 +0200 <dminuoso> Or did you mean left/right?
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2020-10-11 19:17:43 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-11 19:18:02 +0200 <dminuoso> Well the thing is, I dont quite draw a comparison between `sum` and `product` here, since it's rather that `sum in negative position/sum in positive position` seems to line up with `existential in positive position/univeral in negative position`
2020-10-11 19:18:37 +0200 <dminuoso> Which I found odd, since if I have an existential producer, I need a universal consumer to eliminate it
2020-10-11 19:19:03 +0200 <dminuoso> But to eliminate a sum, it's sufficient to have a function that consumes a sum
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2020-10-11 19:19:42 +0200 <dminuoso> Though, what Im saying is a bit handwaving and incorrect, since the universal quantification is bracketed differently than I imagine
2020-10-11 19:20:01 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-11 19:20:34 +0200 <dminuoso> To consume some `s :: ∃x. C x *> x` I need some `f :: forall x. C x => x -> ...`, and not `g :: (forall x. C x => x) -> ...`
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2020-10-11 19:21:18 +0200 <dminuoso> The thing that's just buzzing around my head is, when you produce a value of a sum type, it acts as a sort of existential since from outside the choice of which type was used is hidden
2020-10-11 19:21:35 +0200 <dminuoso> And equivalently, when you consume a sum type, you have to pattern match on all cases, that is you have to be able to handle *all* possible values
2020-10-11 19:22:06 +0200 <dminuoso> So a function `f :: (S + T + U) -> V` must be able to handle all choices `S`, `T` and `U`
2020-10-11 19:22:28 +0200 <dminuoso> While a function/producer `g :: ... -> (S + T + U)` hides which choice it made
2020-10-11 19:22:33 +0200 <dminuoso> ski: Am I making any sense here?
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2020-10-11 19:23:39 +0200 <dminuoso> It was in this sense, that I was thinking an existential could be an open sum type.
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2020-10-11 19:25:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Because, a function `f' :: (∃x. C x *> x) -> V` must be able to handle all possible type choices made for `x` (constrained by C, so this is a sort of open sum type of all types belonging to C)
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2020-10-11 19:25:56 +0200 <dminuoso> And equivalently, a function/producer `g :: ... -> (∃x. C x *> x)` would tell you "I chose some type of C, but I wont tell you which"
2020-10-11 19:26:33 +0200thebnq(~bnq@herrokitty.com)
2020-10-11 19:26:34 +0200 <dminuoso> And its open in the sense that you can just write an `instance C T` anywhere, so you can just add to it
2020-10-11 19:27:18 +0200 <ski> `f :: (exists x. C x *> F x) -> V' is equivalent to `f :: forall x. C x => (F x -> V)', yes
2020-10-11 19:27:39 +0200 <ski> i don't follow "`sum in negative position/sum in positive position` seems to line up with `existential in positive position/univeral in negative position`"
2020-10-11 19:28:06 +0200 <ski> "But to eliminate a sum, it's sufficient to have a function that consumes a sum" -- this is a truism
2020-10-11 19:28:39 +0200 <ski> what's `(S + T + U) -> V' equivalent to ?
2020-10-11 19:29:02 +0200 <ski> "lower/upper adjoints of what?","Or did you mean left/right?" -- yes (but i don't like that terminology)
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2020-10-11 19:31:06 +0200 <dminuoso> ski: https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/6d3ad7972fbe6a00e1a7c9fffcc64c77
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2020-10-11 19:31:53 +0200 <dminuoso> Im using existentials instead of forall, because it's easier in my head here.
2020-10-11 19:32:31 +0200 <ski> what do you want to say about these two pairs of functions ?
2020-10-11 19:34:06 +0200 <dminuoso> f and f' behave similarly, if they want to consume their argument, they need to provide an implementation that handles *all* possible choices a caller makes.
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2020-10-11 19:34:22 +0200 <ski> yes
2020-10-11 19:34:33 +0200 <dminuoso> And the sum type seems like an existential in that sense
2020-10-11 19:34:49 +0200 <dminuoso> Except the types it ranges over is finite
2020-10-11 19:35:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Since it can always be only S, T or U. In case of the existential in f it could be any member of C.
2020-10-11 19:35:25 +0200 <dminuoso> Or, if unconstrained, literally any type.
2020-10-11 19:35:58 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:a58c)
2020-10-11 19:37:22 +0200 <dminuoso> 19:34:33 dminuoso | And the sum type seems like an existential in that sense
2020-10-11 19:37:25 +0200 <dminuoso> Is this an accurate assessment?
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2020-10-11 19:40:00 +0200 <monochrom> dminuoso: This is similar to my http://www.vex.net/~trebla/weblog/any-all-some.html
2020-10-11 19:40:11 +0200 <monochrom> especially "2. Any" and "3. Every"
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2020-10-11 19:43:39 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
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2020-10-11 19:45:04 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a72cce01591a8a38471548a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 19:45:08 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0) (Quit: cosimone)
2020-10-11 19:46:57 +0200 <ski> dminuoso : ⌜(∃ x. C x ∗› F x) → V⌝ is "trivial" in the sense that it can already be expressed as (the in some sense simpler) ⌜∀ x. C x ⇒ (F x → V)⌝. ditto for ⌜(S + T + U) → V⌝ as ⌜(S → V) × (T → V) × (U → V)⌝. otoh ⌜V → (S + T + U)⌝ and ⌜V → (∃ x. C x ∗› F x)⌝ are "serious / nontrivial"
2020-10-11 19:47:13 +0200 <ski> (the first two equivalences are the adjunctions, of course)
2020-10-11 19:47:56 +0200 <ski> "And the sum type seems like an existential in that sense" -- the sum type has similarities to the existential here, yes
2020-10-11 19:48:21 +0200 <koz_> monochrom: That's a really good writeup.
2020-10-11 19:49:20 +0200 <ski> @quote monochrom is.my
2020-10-11 19:49:20 +0200 <lambdabot> monochrom says: Programming is a dialectic class struggle between the author and the user. My freedom is your slavery. Your ignorance is my strength.
2020-10-11 19:49:40 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2020-10-11 19:50:31 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0)
2020-10-11 19:50:38 +0200UpstreamSalmon(uid12077@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blhvokhppkellvyn)
2020-10-11 19:51:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 19:52:04 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 19:54:13 +0200proofofme(~proofofme@184-96-74-65.hlrn.qwest.net)
2020-10-11 19:54:40 +0200 <dolio> dminuoso: Either is a 2-ary sum, exists is a *-ary sum (sort of).
2020-10-11 19:54:47 +0200 <ski> "If ⌜p⌝ is any prime, then for every integer ⌜a⌝, ⌜aᵖ⌝ is congruent to ⌜a⌝, modulo ⌜p⌝."
2020-10-11 19:55:25 +0200thebnq(~bnq@herrokitty.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-11 19:55:32 +0200proofofme(~proofofme@184-96-74-65.hlrn.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 19:55:38 +0200 <xerox_> so squaring doesn't change parity (modulo-2-ness) cubing doesn't change module-3-ness and so forth
2020-10-11 19:56:42 +0200 <ski> (∃ p : ℕ. Prime p) → (∀ a : ℤ. aᵖ ≅ a (mod p))
2020-10-11 19:56:44 +0200 <dolio> Really Σ is a sum, and ∃ is something more restrictive.
2020-10-11 19:57:03 +0200 <dolio> But you don't have Σ in Haskell.
2020-10-11 19:57:16 +0200 <ski> "and" corresponds to the existential here. note that this is an anaphoric use. (⌜p⌝ appears to be used, out of scope)
2020-10-11 19:57:25 +0200 <dminuoso> dolio: You said "sort of", in what sense do they differ?
2020-10-11 19:57:30 +0200 <dolio> In the same way that ∀ is different from Π.
2020-10-11 19:57:43 +0200 <ski> er, .. s/and/any/
2020-10-11 19:57:54 +0200Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnbfvizdbuvwdypf)
2020-10-11 19:58:10 +0200 <dolio> dminuoso: ∃ is parametric, so it is supposed to 'hide' the choice of type.
2020-10-11 19:58:30 +0200oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:40aa:f743:137e:9f96) (Quit: oisdk)
2020-10-11 19:58:43 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 19:59:08 +0200hnOsmium0001(uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xtrudmadhpdzbuzh)
2020-10-11 19:59:11 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0)
2020-10-11 19:59:34 +0200 <dolio> In e.g. Agda, you have Σ over types where the value is accessible, and then it's a strict generalization, where A + B = Σ b:Bool. if b then A else B.
2020-10-11 20:00:02 +0200reeiiko(~reeiiko@185.163.110.116) ()
2020-10-11 20:02:15 +0200 <dolio> That's why it's Σ, or 'dependent sum' and not 'product' like people sometimes call it. :)
2020-10-11 20:03:05 +0200 <ski> "dependent sum","dependent product" vs. "dependent product","dependent exponential"
2020-10-11 20:03:16 +0200 <hpc> it's like how Σ in math is the sum of a function for x in some range
2020-10-11 20:03:23 +0200 <dolio> The 'tags' of the sum are generalized to an arbitrary type, rather than an externally given set of constructor tags.
2020-10-11 20:03:30 +0200 <ski> (i don't really see the point of the former terminology)
2020-10-11 20:04:06 +0200 <phadej> calling Sigma dependent pair makes sense, dependent product is wrong.
2020-10-11 20:04:07 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a72cce01591a8a38471548a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:04:07 +0200xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:5276:8500:f9cf:4587:6263:5f8d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:04:18 +0200 <ski> why ?
2020-10-11 20:04:26 +0200Cthalupa(~cthulhu@47.186.47.75) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:04:32 +0200 <phadej> because Pi is product
2020-10-11 20:05:00 +0200 <ski> it's an iterated/flexible product, yes
2020-10-11 20:05:07 +0200proofofme(~proofofme@184-96-74-65.hlrn.qwest.net)
2020-10-11 20:05:11 +0200Cthalupa(~cthulhu@47.186.47.75)
2020-10-11 20:05:20 +0200 <ski> but the dependency is not "on the level of thinking of it as a product", the way i see it
2020-10-11 20:05:23 +0200 <phadej> dependent pair and dependent function space are non-ambiguous names
2020-10-11 20:05:24 +0200xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:5276:8500:a0c7:cc77:f7d4:2372)
2020-10-11 20:05:41 +0200 <ski> the dependency is from the exponent to the base. so if i'm thinking about the dependency, i'm not thinking about it as a product
2020-10-11 20:06:08 +0200 <phadej> I'd prefer names where I don't have to think which way they are ;)
2020-10-11 20:06:13 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 20:06:25 +0200 <phadej> also sigma-type and pi-type are good
2020-10-11 20:06:36 +0200 <phadej> jargon, but concise and non-ambiguous
2020-10-11 20:06:50 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc96984-rdng25-2-0-cust109.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:06:53 +0200 <ski> (and similarly, "dependent sum" doesn't make sense. or rather, "dependent sum" ought to refer to ⌜(k : A) ∨ (⋯k⋯)⌝, where ⌜k⌝ is a continuation (a disproof/refutation) of type ⌜A⌝)
2020-10-11 20:08:04 +0200Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
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2020-10-11 20:09:03 +0200coot(~coot@78-10-221-32.static.ip.netia.com.pl)
2020-10-11 20:09:49 +0200proofofme(~proofofme@184-96-74-65.hlrn.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:09:55 +0200 <dolio> Σ is a coproduct and Π is a product in a pretty straight forward way.
2020-10-11 20:10:27 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f02580060eb7dde324e54c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:10:43 +0200 <ski> (if i'm thinking about the dependency in ⌜(x : A) ∧ (⋯x⋯)⌝, i'm clearly thinking about it as a product, with a dependency from one factor (the "multiplicand", if you wish) to the other (the "multiplier"). if i'm thinking of ⌜(i : {0,1,2}) ∧ Bᵢ⌝ as an iterated/flexible sum ⌜B₀ ∨ B₁ ∨ B₂⌝, then i'm not explicitly thinking about the dependency)
2020-10-11 20:10:44 +0200thebnq(~bnq@herrokitty.com)
2020-10-11 20:11:35 +0200gnar^2(~user@c-73-118-153-248.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2020-10-11 20:12:43 +0200coot(~coot@78-10-221-32.static.ip.netia.com.pl) (Client Quit)
2020-10-11 20:14:02 +0200 <ski> when i write ⌜∑ᵢ Bᵢ⌝/⌜∏ᵢ Bᵢ⌝, i'm commonly thinking of this as a(n iterated/flexible) sum/product. but if i'm talking/thinking about the dependency, i'm clearly thinking of this as a product / an exponential (coming from iterated sum/product)
2020-10-11 20:14:58 +0200hackagecut-the-crap 2.1.0 - Cuts out uninteresting parts of videos by detecting silences. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cut-the-crap-2.1.0 (Jappie)
2020-10-11 20:16:51 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-10-11 20:16:54 +0200 <koz_> ski: What's a dependent exponential?
2020-10-11 20:17:01 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:17:04 +0200 <dolio> Well, in this case, 'sum' is the correct terminology to recognize the correspondence between Σ and +, so I don't see the value in insisting on the other terminology.
2020-10-11 20:17:10 +0200 <koz_> Like, I know that 'exponential type = function', but I don't get how dependent types would go here.
2020-10-11 20:17:14 +0200 <dolio> It is strictly worse for understanding this case.
2020-10-11 20:17:17 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-11 20:17:17 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 20:17:17 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-11 20:18:45 +0200revprez_anzio(~revprez_a@pool-108-49-213-40.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:19:05 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
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2020-10-11 20:20:36 +0200 <dolio> I generally call them Σ and Π.
2020-10-11 20:21:10 +0200 <ski> (i sometimes write ⌜(i <) n ⋅ aᵢ⌝, and ⌜aᵢ⁽ⁱ˂⁾ⁿ⌝, for the usual arithmetic operations, to emphasize the dependent product/exponential viewpoint)
2020-10-11 20:21:28 +0200 <hpc> koz_: perhaps something like printf's type, adding more parameters based on the format string
2020-10-11 20:21:42 +0200 <koz_> hpc: Ah, OK.
2020-10-11 20:22:01 +0200 <koz_> I didn't think of that, but it makes much sense.
2020-10-11 20:22:05 +0200 <ski> yes, i should probably say that when i'm thinking of it as a "dependent product", i'm usually not writing it as ⌜∑⌝
2020-10-11 20:22:10 +0200beaups(~beaups@s91904426.blix.com)
2020-10-11 20:22:40 +0200 <nihilazo> hi, I'm struggling to understand applicative functors. I understand the concept I think, but I don't see how they're useful?
2020-10-11 20:22:40 +0200 <nihilazo> going through chapter 11 of learn you a haskell, I can't really see why this is useful vs just removing the stuff from the functors and using it as normal data
2020-10-11 20:22:55 +0200 <nihilazo> aside from for doing stuff with lists, which I feel like comprehensions are cleaner for? Is it just a style choice to use them?
2020-10-11 20:23:44 +0200 <koz_> nihilazo: Applicative functors are the thing that allows us to sequence computations.
2020-10-11 20:23:58 +0200 <koz_> Functors alone cannot do this - they can only 'lift' pure functions to operate on effectful data.
2020-10-11 20:24:03 +0200 <dolio> (Some) comprehensions can be turned into Applicative operations.
2020-10-11 20:24:16 +0200 <koz_> Whereas Applicative actually allows us to compute inside of an effectful context.
2020-10-11 20:24:42 +0200 <dolio> So by saying comprehensions are good, you are acknowledging that Applicative is good, just with a different syntax.
2020-10-11 20:24:46 +0200 <c_wraith> nihilazo: have you run across the Traversable class? It's one of those things that really points out why Applicative shines.
2020-10-11 20:24:48 +0200 <koz_> For example: suppose you have x :: m Int, y :: m Int, where Applicative m. How do you add them?
2020-10-11 20:24:57 +0200 <koz_> With Functor alone? You can't.
2020-10-11 20:25:36 +0200 <koz_> But with Applicative, you can, and quite straightforwardly, while maintaining the effects that 'wrap' those values.
2020-10-11 20:26:02 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a72cce01591a8a38471548a6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-11 20:26:48 +0200 <nihilazo> ah ok, that makes sense
2020-10-11 20:27:05 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0) (Quit: cosimone)
2020-10-11 20:27:13 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com)
2020-10-11 20:27:27 +0200hackagecut-the-crap 2.1.1 - Cuts out uninteresting parts of videos by detecting silences. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cut-the-crap-2.1.1 (Jappie)
2020-10-11 20:27:37 +0200 <nihilazo> thanks
2020-10-11 20:28:48 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 20:30:39 +0200ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168)
2020-10-11 20:31:04 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-10-11 20:31:09 +0200 <nihilazo> Still not sure I entirely understand how applicatives are used in context, even though I think I understand the idea? I can always go back and revise if I come across things i don't understand
2020-10-11 20:31:50 +0200 <ski> koz_ : ⌜Bₓ⁽ˣ ݃⁾ᴬ⌝ is equivalent to ⌜(x :) A → Bₓ⌝
2020-10-11 20:32:18 +0200 <koz_> ski: Sorry, but I don't get that notation.
2020-10-11 20:33:17 +0200 <ski> koz_ : example : ⌜replicate : (n :) ℕ → A → Aⁿ⌝
2020-10-11 20:33:42 +0200 <koz_> Ah, OK.
2020-10-11 20:35:01 +0200 <ski> (i don't mind calling ⌜Σ⌝. it's just that the adjective "dependent" here seems completely misplaced to me. there is no dependence of one term of the term, upon another term of the sum)
2020-10-11 20:35:11 +0200 <ski> (don't mind calling it "sum", that is)
2020-10-11 20:35:14 +0200kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qqaeittltyajhdin)
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2020-10-11 20:54:23 +0200 <ski> nihilazo : in that case, you could say `(+) <$> x <*> y', or `liftA2 (+) x y'
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2020-10-11 20:56:07 +0200 <nihilazo> ah ok
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2020-10-11 21:04:58 +0200 <avdb> Why is getting started with programming so hard? I've been procrastinating every minute I had the past month ...
2020-10-11 21:06:23 +0200 <yushyin> because it's often so dull
2020-10-11 21:07:57 +0200 <Uniaika> unless you have a compelling use-case, it's dull indeed
2020-10-11 21:07:57 +0200ashbreeze(~mark@72-161-51-6.dyn.centurytel.net)
2020-10-11 21:08:26 +0200 <dolio> Is it?
2020-10-11 21:08:38 +0200 <nihilazo> I've decided on a project to do for my first thing in haskell but it's maybe not something haskell is suited to particularly
2020-10-11 21:08:51 +0200 <nihilazo> because just learning is interesting but also kinda pointless if you then do nothing
2020-10-11 21:09:19 +0200 <avdb> yushyin: What do you mean by dull?
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2020-10-11 21:10:36 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 21:11:32 +0200AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-11 21:12:41 +0200 <monochrom> It's a very vague question.
2020-10-11 21:13:13 +0200 <avdb> It is, maybe I should just schedule an hour every day instead of being hopeless.
2020-10-11 21:13:15 +0200avdb(~avdb@ip-83-134-31-215.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-11 21:13:22 +0200elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-10-11 21:13:24 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-11 21:13:25 +0200 <monochrom> It also sounds like a counsellor is most suitable for this.
2020-10-11 21:14:21 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2020-10-11 21:17:22 +0200solonarv(~solonarv@adijon-655-1-70-207.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2020-10-11 21:25:39 +0200 <maerwald> programming is for fellows with very hight frustration tolerance
2020-10-11 21:26:26 +0200 <monochrom> In my case it's the opposite. Social interaction is the highly frustrating one.
2020-10-11 21:27:08 +0200 <monochrom> People are moody. People have subtexts. People have secret rules. People expect me to second-guess them. People never say what they mean.
2020-10-11 21:27:30 +0200lortabac(~lortabac@51.158.65.124)
2020-10-11 21:27:35 +0200 <monochrom> Programming has none of that, and I decided to have none of that.
2020-10-11 21:28:02 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 21:28:04 +0200 <maerwald> which begs the question... why do we seek frustration?
2020-10-11 21:28:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-11 21:28:27 +0200 <ptrcmd> your computer might become moody one day and decide to stop working xD
2020-10-11 21:28:59 +0200snakemas1(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-10-11 21:29:11 +0200 <monochrom> Then again, it was also a time when computers were simple, e.g., Apple II. Today's Windows look like moody and full of hidden rules, too.
2020-10-11 21:29:12 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> ptrcmd: a lot of very smart people are working very hard to achieve just that
2020-10-11 21:30:06 +0200 <monochrom> I imagine that programming is frustrating to social people because programming is against "do what I mean not what I said".
2020-10-11 21:30:09 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82cf0b100486504fffe5c93fb.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
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2020-10-11 21:30:52 +0200 <monochrom> whereas programming is natural to me because it does what I said and I do what it said. What meaning?
2020-10-11 21:31:36 +0200 <Zetagon> I can be pretty frustrated with computers not doing what I mean a times
2020-10-11 21:32:09 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:1ccf:5c8d:7928:e9cc)
2020-10-11 21:32:25 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-11 21:32:55 +0200 <Zetagon> I had a computer lab where I was going to write some routing tables, and missed to type one dot in an ip address and the route program just swallowed it whole
2020-10-11 21:33:01 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> semantic death approaches in the form of a great purple cloud, sparks within ignite the surface in brilliant flashes that draw in lowly insects, soon to be consumed and added to the cloud. Would you like to file a git issue about the cloud's color?
2020-10-11 21:33:13 +0200Lowl3v3l(~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-203-195-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-11 21:33:27 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-11 21:33:42 +0200 <monochrom> haha
2020-10-11 21:33:46 +0200skiidly recalls programs which would only repond with `?', if they detected something they didn't understand, in user input
2020-10-11 21:34:13 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> ski: I don't know anything about 'eat the apple'
2020-10-11 21:35:42 +0200 <ski> like the `?' responses at <http://cs.wellesley.edu/~cs249/Resources/ed_is_the_standard_text_editor.html>
2020-10-11 21:35:45 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.56.73.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-10-11 21:36:05 +0200macrover(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-10-11 21:36:11 +0200 <ski> (although, in my case, it was a monitor/disassembler)
2020-10-11 21:38:30 +0200 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vty-5.31/docs/Graphics-Vty-Attributes.html#v:blink this doesn't do anything for me
2020-10-11 21:39:17 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-11 21:39:25 +0200Lowl3v3l(~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-203-195-108.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-10-11 21:40:08 +0200 <maerwald> I mean, not in an asthetics sense... but in a practical one
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2020-10-11 21:46:11 +0200mupf(~micha@v22017094964653601.ultrasrv.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
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2020-10-11 21:47:14 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-11 21:48:15 +0200 <maerwald> why no one invents a new terminal?
2020-10-11 21:48:53 +0200 <Uniaika> maerwald: non-VT100 terminal?
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2020-10-11 21:55:05 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.56.73.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2020-10-11 22:00:00 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:a58c)
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2020-10-11 22:01:22 +0200rprije(~rprije@203.214.95.251)
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2020-10-11 22:06:35 +0200 <maerwald> a clean set of standards
2020-10-11 22:06:52 +0200massma(~user@dyn-160-39-62-152.dyn.columbia.edu)
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2020-10-11 22:07:38 +0200 <maerwald> should only take 3 lifetimes to convince everyone
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2020-10-11 22:09:48 +0200AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
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2020-10-11 22:20:25 +0200mdunnio(~mdunnio@208.59.170.5)
2020-10-11 22:21:47 +0200 <koz_> maerwald: 3? Optimistic aren't we?
2020-10-11 22:21:57 +0200 <koz_> Also, anything on my xz thingo I tested for you?
2020-10-11 22:22:15 +0200 <maerwald> xz?
2020-10-11 22:22:18 +0200 <maerwald> ah
2020-10-11 22:23:13 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-11 22:25:03 +0200 <hpc> is that what happens when you compose two XY problems? :D
2020-10-11 22:25:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-10-11 22:25:40 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-11 22:26:16 +0200 <monochrom> or maybe compress two XY problems and get an xz file. :)
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2020-10-11 22:28:21 +0200 <hpc> imagine the trouble you have to be in to make a gz
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2020-10-11 22:44:58 +0200hackagelongshot 0.1.0.3 - Fast Brute-force search using parallelism https://hackage.haskell.org/package/longshot-0.1.0.3 (thyeem)
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2020-10-11 22:58:36 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@81.255.219.130) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
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2020-10-11 23:00:01 +0200beaups(~beaups@s91904426.blix.com) ()
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2020-10-11 23:27:55 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:28:46 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-10-11 23:28:47 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:29:55 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:30:46 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: No route to host)
2020-10-11 23:31:55 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:32:12 +0200djellemah(~djellemah@2601:5c2:100:96c:e008:b638:39fe:6a54)
2020-10-11 23:32:16 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2020-10-11 23:32:49 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:33:29 +0200cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:a16f:75:586:b3b0) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 23:33:56 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:34:56 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:35:00 +0200elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-11 23:35:57 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:36:01 +0200fendor__fendor
2020-10-11 23:37:59 +0200_vaibhavingale_1(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:38:41 +0200st8less(~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:9c66:9b18:c21:60c) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-11 23:40:00 +0200_vaibhavingale_2(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:40:06 +0200_vaibhavingale_1(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:40:10 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-11 23:40:57 +0200_vaibhavingale_2(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:41:56 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:42:57 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-10-11 23:42:58 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:43:20 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-11 23:43:20 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-10-11 23:43:20 +0200GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-11 23:43:40 +0200hgfrewerfgn(4dab983e@77-171-152-62.fixed.kpn.net)
2020-10-11 23:43:56 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:44:42 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: No route to host)
2020-10-11 23:44:48 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@host86-173-104-87.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-11 23:45:06 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-11 23:45:54 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@host86-173-104-87.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
2020-10-11 23:45:55 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
2020-10-11 23:46:41 +0200hgfrewerfgn(4dab983e@77-171-152-62.fixed.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 23:46:50 +0200_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-11 23:47:10 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-10-11 23:48:11 +0200 <jedii> java is so vile and same with .net
2020-10-11 23:48:22 +0200 <jedii> why cant more companies adopt haskell or something decent
2020-10-11 23:48:34 +0200Guest25(524e4b15@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.78.75.21)
2020-10-11 23:48:45 +0200 <Guest25> Can be made a nuclear fusion device from a lab on a chip?
2020-10-11 23:49:01 +0200elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-10-11 23:49:20 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@host86-173-104-87.range86-173.btcentralplus.com) (Client Quit)
2020-10-11 23:50:23 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@host86-173-104-87.range86-173.btcentralplus.com)
2020-10-11 23:51:11 +0200mirrorbird(~psutcliff@2a00:801:429:5ea0:80af:2bca:f885:1bb9)
2020-10-11 23:51:53 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:1ccf:5c8d:7928:e9cc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-11 23:52:00 +0200reallymemorable(~quassel@ip68-9-215-56.ri.ri.cox.net)
2020-10-11 23:52:02 +0200 <jedii> use thorium safe atomic
2020-10-11 23:52:09 +0200 <jedii> liquid floride salt reactor flibe.com
2020-10-11 23:52:15 +0200 <jedii> fusion doesnt work
2020-10-11 23:52:19 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:1ccf:5c8d:7928:e9cc)
2020-10-11 23:52:40 +0200 <dolio> This doesn't seem like it's about Haskell.
2020-10-11 23:56:25 +0200conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-11 23:57:38 +0200reppertj(~textual@pool-96-246-209-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-10-11 23:58:46 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:1ccf:5c8d:7928:e9cc) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-10-11 23:58:56 +0200 <Guest25> Could be made a nuclear fusion device from a "lab on a chip" device?
2020-10-11 23:59:03 +0200ChanServ+o monochrom
2020-10-11 23:59:06 +0200monochrom+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.78.75.21
2020-10-11 23:59:06 +0200Guest25monochromGuest25
2020-10-11 23:59:10 +0200monochrom-o monochrom