IRCBrowse

2020/09/23

2020-09-23 00:00:02 +0000boily(~boily@185.204.1.185) ()
2020-09-23 00:00:20 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net)
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2020-09-23 00:10:35 +0000cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6)
2020-09-23 00:17:10 +0000 <koz_> Is there some kind of 'how to haskell in nix gud for nix noobs' guide/writeup/scroll of knowledge I can read?
2020-09-23 00:17:29 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-23 00:21:16 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> good night
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2020-09-23 00:22:03 +0000Dantman(~Dantman@178.162.209.171)
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2020-09-23 00:28:19 +0000jchia_(~jchia@58.32.37.220)
2020-09-23 00:28:37 +0000elliott_(~elliott@2600:380:9213:cb9c:4467:28e3:9d66:a364)
2020-09-23 00:30:07 +0000justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 00:31:39 +0000z0(~z0@bl15-163-199.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-23 00:32:03 +0000 <z0> i just found out something neat
2020-09-23 00:33:11 +0000 <z0> i can paginate hoogle output inside ghci by adding ' :def hoogle \x -> return $ ":!hoogle --count=99 \"" ++ x ++ "\" | less"' to ~/.ghci
2020-09-23 00:33:30 +0000cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) (Quit: Quit.)
2020-09-23 00:34:48 +0000 <z0> it's great with 'hoogle --info' aswell
2020-09-23 00:34:55 +0000 <z0> i'm happy
2020-09-23 00:35:03 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 00:35:16 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 00:35:39 +0000 <z0> and less works as supposed, regex search and all
2020-09-23 00:39:24 +0000 <z0> come to think of it, its obvious it would
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2020-09-23 00:41:25 +0000ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 00:41:44 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
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2020-09-23 00:44:35 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-23 00:44:52 +0000 <sm[m]> koz_: maybe https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/hbyaa9/zurihac_haskellnix_tutorial_overhaul/ has clues
2020-09-23 00:45:50 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-23 00:47:35 +0000jedws(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-23 00:47:36 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:e577:7434:54c8:b828)
2020-09-23 00:49:45 +0000plutoniix(~q@175.176.222.7)
2020-09-23 00:52:15 +0000 <newhoggy> Has anyone noticed that `socketPair` function is missing in `network-3.1.2.0` `Network.Socket` for Windows?
2020-09-23 00:52:30 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 00:53:27 +0000acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237860d9dcd65723cec3bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 00:54:25 +0000 <koz_> sm[m]: Looks good, will read.
2020-09-23 00:55:59 +0000elliott_(~elliott@2600:380:9213:cb9c:4467:28e3:9d66:a364) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-23 00:57:40 +0000 <sm[m]> what's a general way to convert Int to CInt ?
2020-09-23 00:58:14 +0000elliott_(~elliott@2607:fb90:18db:f0c9:c6cc:42a2:fa55:dd4)
2020-09-23 00:59:18 +0000 <sm[m]> ah, fromIntegral
2020-09-23 00:59:26 +0000 <sm[m]> I was holding it wrong
2020-09-23 01:01:53 +0000 <newhoggy> `socketPair` definitely exists in `network-3.1.1.1` `Network.Socket` for Windows.
2020-09-23 01:02:34 +0000alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:9d7f:5b8b:cbaa:46e9)
2020-09-23 01:05:08 +0000 <newhoggy> https://github.com/haskell/network/issues/484
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2020-09-23 01:54:30 +0000nicholaslyang(~nicholasl@cpe-67-243-148-221.nyc.res.rr.com)
2020-09-23 01:55:22 +0000sepi(49dc4892@c-73-220-72-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 01:56:12 +0000 <sepi> https://dpaste.org/M4Te what can I do to not lose my first integer?
2020-09-23 01:56:26 +0000 <sepi> or first on list
2020-09-23 01:57:21 +0000minwuek(uid466029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mhasgbtzvzqixgia) ()
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2020-09-23 02:00:42 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-23 02:01:02 +0000 <glguy> sepi: sortl [x] = [x]; sortl [] = []
2020-09-23 02:01:44 +0000xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:525e:3100:a532:31e:75e4:cc8b)
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2020-09-23 02:04:12 +0000 <sepi> wow I should take a break
2020-09-23 02:04:27 +0000 <sepi> thanks
2020-09-23 02:05:58 +0000 <dolio> Your non-base case isn't right, either.
2020-09-23 02:08:44 +0000 <dolio> I don't think it will really sort.
2020-09-23 02:08:50 +0000urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2020-09-23 02:11:04 +0000ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 02:14:02 +0000 <sepi> is it because once I get the first x thats smaller than y, I'm just sending it out without checking it with the others?
2020-09-23 02:14:56 +0000 <dolio> Yes, but the other case is just throwing one of them away, too.
2020-09-23 02:14:56 +0000zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
2020-09-23 02:17:22 +0000ryjm_matrix1(~matrixirc@pool-74-105-197-68.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-23 02:17:26 +0000tzh_(~tzh@2601:448:c500:5300::82b3)
2020-09-23 02:18:42 +0000 <sepi> okay what it seems to be saying if y is greater than x then y becomes x, but if its not greater, its getting overlooked and thrown out for the recursion
2020-09-23 02:18:54 +0000dale(dale@unaffiliated/dale) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 02:18:58 +0000 <sepi> Should I just take a different approach overall
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2020-09-23 02:23:38 +0000 <dolio> Maybe. I'm not sure what approach you were planning on exactly.
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2020-09-23 02:42:32 +0000 <sepi> is there a skip function?
2020-09-23 02:42:57 +0000hackagehoauth2 1.15.0 - Haskell OAuth2 authentication client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hoauth2-1.15.0 (HaishengWu)
2020-09-23 02:43:09 +0000 <sepi> I'm thinking of doing a case compare of and skipping if two elements are equal
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2020-09-23 03:00:02 +0000Dantman(~Dantman@178.162.209.171) ()
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2020-09-23 03:15:27 +0000hackagelanguage-dickinson 1.3.0.4 - A language for generative literature https://hackage.haskell.org/package/language-dickinson-1.3.0.4 (vmchale)
2020-09-23 03:15:36 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72)
2020-09-23 03:18:28 +0000hackageyesod-core 1.6.18.4 - Creation of type-safe, RESTful web applications. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/yesod-core-1.6.18.4 (MichaelSnoyman)
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2020-09-23 03:43:58 +0000hackagederive-topdown 0.0.2.1 - Help Haskellers derive class instances for composited data types. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/derive-topdown-0.0.2.1 (songzh)
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2020-09-23 04:00:22 +0000chetak(~chetak@106.215.87.245)
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2020-09-23 04:01:54 +0000thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.112.240) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-23 04:08:26 +0000bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnlqbrrfahovlyem)
2020-09-23 04:08:34 +0000 <bitmapper> Ambiguous module name ‘Numeric.IEEE’:
2020-09-23 04:08:34 +0000 <bitmapper> it was found in multiple packages: ieee754-0.8.0 ieee754-0.8.0
2020-09-23 04:08:34 +0000 <bitmapper> what
2020-09-23 04:08:43 +0000chetak_(~chetak@106.215.87.245)
2020-09-23 04:09:25 +0000 <chetak_> hello
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2020-09-23 04:20:02 +0000 <bitmapper> oh i figured it out
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2020-09-23 05:00:40 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
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2020-09-23 05:06:30 +0000 <siraben> haskell-language-server uses 1.0 GB?
2020-09-23 05:06:34 +0000 <siraben> Of ram
2020-09-23 05:08:01 +0000 <koz_> siraben: Wouldn't surprise me.
2020-09-23 05:08:04 +0000gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-23 05:08:17 +0000 <siraben> koz_: that's pretty excessive, what's causing it?
2020-09-23 05:08:25 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
2020-09-23 05:08:49 +0000 <koz_> siraben: I guess you'd need to ask the implementers, but it's not the first time I've heard of outrageous memory use from that.
2020-09-23 05:09:03 +0000 <siraben> Ugh, well.
2020-09-23 05:09:12 +0000 <siraben> At least I have docs and types on hover, I guess.
2020-09-23 05:09:35 +0000 <siraben> It's amazing work but I'd like the mem usage to be lower
2020-09-23 05:11:27 +0000bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-23 05:15:34 +0000 <siraben> edwardk: how do I work under a binder in bound?
2020-09-23 05:15:46 +0000 <siraben> Do I just use fmap?
2020-09-23 05:17:18 +0000 <siraben> http://ix.io/2yt3
2020-09-23 05:17:47 +0000 <siraben> b is (Scope () Exp a)
2020-09-23 05:17:50 +0000 <siraben> is of type*
2020-09-23 05:17:51 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 05:18:06 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
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2020-09-23 05:37:39 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
2020-09-23 05:39:58 +0000hackagestm-actor 0.2.1.0 - A simplistic actor model based on STM https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm-actor-0.2.1.0 (sgschlesinger)
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2020-09-23 05:42:41 +0000jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.161.211.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
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2020-09-23 05:48:20 +0000 <siraben> koz_: seems to be 700+ MB for every haskell project that is opened
2020-09-23 05:49:04 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-09-23 05:52:16 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
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2020-09-23 06:00:01 +0000Eprom(~Eprom@89.47.234.28) ()
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2020-09-23 06:05:31 +0000maier(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-23 06:05:39 +0000maierkenran
2020-09-23 06:06:36 +0000 <kenran> Can cabal-install in some way output me the path where it puts the stuff it builds? I need to know the path to the binary created by `cabal build exe:my-package`.
2020-09-23 06:06:56 +0000eric_(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
2020-09-23 06:08:55 +0000 <kenran> Right now I use `cabal install --installdir=something --install-method=copy, but it takes ages because I need to do it for 6 packages. It seems like it starts all over again for every single package when all I need is just to copy the binaries built by `cabal build all` to a certain location.
2020-09-23 06:09:09 +0000josh(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 06:09:15 +0000 <kenran> Since we use different OS's, I can't really hard-code the paths into the `dist-newstyle` directory.
2020-09-23 06:09:37 +0000 <phadej> kenran: cabal-install-3.4 has `cabal list-bin` command
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2020-09-23 06:17:30 +0000 <kenran> phadej: what really? dang, I'm on 3.2 with the whole project still. Maybe it's time to try moving to a newer nixpkgs revision after all...
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2020-09-23 06:32:37 +0000 <phadej> 3.4 is not yet released, there is prebuilt binaries though
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2020-09-23 07:06:18 +0000 <ixlun> If I have `data (Ord a) => Foo a = Foo Bar a', how can I make all `Foo's Ord by a?
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2020-09-23 07:07:20 +0000 <kenran> phadej: Ahh too bad. Maybe I can write a nix derivation for pulling the binaries and using those instead of using nixpkgs's cabal-install :thinking:
2020-09-23 07:08:59 +0000 <kenran> thanks for pointing me to it!
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2020-09-23 07:11:06 +0000 <Axman6> ixlun: youy almost certainly do not want to add that constraint to the data definition. just do data Foo a = Foo Bar a; instance Ord a => Ord (Foo a) where compare (Foo _ x) (Foo _ y) = compare x y
2020-09-23 07:11:26 +0000 <phadej> kenran: hmm, dunno if pulling the binaries is very good idea. I'll make a note to make a nix derivation which would allow you to build them from source
2020-09-23 07:11:41 +0000 <phadej> (thus it would work on macOS too e.g.)
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2020-09-23 07:13:25 +0000 <kenran> phadej: wow, that would be awesome, thanks. cabal-install itself is probably also a cabal project I guess? :)
2020-09-23 07:13:45 +0000 <phadej> yes
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2020-09-23 07:14:32 +0000 <phadej> but I wouldn't want to use nixpkgs dependencies, as perfectly it shouldn't require you to change/upgrade anything else
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2020-09-23 07:16:06 +0000 <ixlun> Axman6: Thanks for the answer. Looks as though I've also got to implement Eq in a similar way too: 'Could not deduce (Eq (Foo a))'
2020-09-23 07:16:07 +0000asan(~yan4138@124.78.18.146)
2020-09-23 07:16:37 +0000 <Axman6> you can just add deriving (Eq) if that's the behaviour you want
2020-09-23 07:17:13 +0000 <ixlun> But, would Bar matter in that case?
2020-09-23 07:17:20 +0000 <Axman6> yes
2020-09-23 07:17:23 +0000hekkaidekapus(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 07:17:43 +0000 <ixlun> Which I would then presume would affect the ordering?
2020-09-23 07:17:44 +0000 <Axman6> if you want something that's not the default derived behaviour, you'll need to write the code
2020-09-23 07:17:54 +0000 <Axman6> no
2020-09-23 07:18:45 +0000 <ixlun> Why not though?
2020-09-23 07:18:50 +0000 <Axman6> the ordering would be dependent only on the definition of Ord (Foo a), but you probably want to make sure that if x == y then compare x y == EQ, and if x /= y then compare x y /= EQ
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2020-09-23 07:21:40 +0000 <ixlun> I'm guessing that this should be the case as I'm going to prob
2020-09-23 07:21:58 +0000 <ixlun> probably make `a' a Double.
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2020-09-23 07:56:59 +0000 <dminuoso> phadej: Is cabal going to assimilate the entirety of cabal-plan, or just the list-bin part of it?
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2020-09-23 08:09:10 +0000 <phadej> dminuoso: just list-bin part for now
2020-09-23 08:09:50 +0000kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2020-09-23 08:10:02 +0000 <dminuoso> Fair enough, that's a really welcome addition. :)
2020-09-23 08:10:25 +0000 <dminuoso> (Although the `cabal -v0 exec -- which ...` trick worked well enough, list-bin feels a bit more robust)
2020-09-23 08:10:52 +0000 <dminuoso> And I was always slightly annoyed to have cabal-plan as a dependency on my build runners. :)
2020-09-23 08:11:57 +0000 <phadej> -v0 exec -- which doesn't work on Windows ;)
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2020-09-23 08:13:05 +0000Unhammer(~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer)
2020-09-23 08:13:28 +0000 <phadej> and i'm trying to remember to do bindists for cabal-plan too, e.g. https://github.com/haskell-hvr/cabal-plan/releases/tag/v0.6.2.0
2020-09-23 08:13:48 +0000 <phadej> (e.g. cabal's own CI is using that...)
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2020-09-23 08:39:04 +0000 <fendor> can haddock highlight json correctly?
2020-09-23 08:39:25 +0000 <phadej> why would it :)
2020-09-23 08:39:39 +0000 <phadej> it doesn't even highlight Haskell
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2020-09-23 08:41:27 +0000 <fendor> phadej, mainly because I think it would be neat in the documentation
2020-09-23 08:41:27 +0000ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 08:41:38 +0000 <fendor> but I guess, I also want it to highlight haskell :P
2020-09-23 08:41:42 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 08:41:42 +0000 <fendor> at least in code-mode
2020-09-23 08:41:45 +0000cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6)
2020-09-23 08:42:02 +0000 <AWizzArd> Do we have someone here who is using Emacs with the Haskell Language Server?
2020-09-23 08:43:10 +0000 <fendor> AWizzArd, probably, (not me though). You can also ask in #haskell-ide-engine
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2020-09-23 08:43:52 +0000 <AWizzArd> fendor: good, I just wanted to ask if there might be some HLS channel
2020-09-23 08:44:44 +0000 <fendor> AWizzArd, yep, that is the one. All hls/ghcide/hie stuff is discussed in there
2020-09-23 08:44:45 +0000jedws(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-23 08:45:23 +0000 <AWizzArd> \o/
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2020-09-23 08:48:08 +0000 <fendor> phadej, is there a practical/philosophical reason haddock cannot to this?
2020-09-23 08:48:22 +0000 <fendor> or just, no one bothered yet
2020-09-23 08:48:38 +0000 <phadej> fendor: what is the code block is not Haskell, or some pseudohaskell
2020-09-23 08:48:49 +0000 <phadej> how to track all the new extensions GHC acquires
2020-09-23 08:49:22 +0000 <phadej> IMO no highlighting is better than broken one
2020-09-23 08:49:23 +0000kritzefitz(~kritzefit@p200300ecdf030e00db9c7b45b387785b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 08:50:25 +0000polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:d81b:49ea:d8f1:8f81)
2020-09-23 08:51:11 +0000 <fendor> It would already be nice to have some basic highlighting, such as function definitions, types, literals, keywords... I mean, I guess extensions can add new keywords
2020-09-23 08:51:54 +0000 <phadej> have you looked at e.g. LinearTypes syntax changes
2020-09-23 08:52:09 +0000 <phadej> tracking thing like that is just :S
2020-09-23 08:52:56 +0000 <phadej> technically haddock could use ghc-lib to parser the code-snippets to highlight them
2020-09-23 08:53:09 +0000 <phadej> but how to tell what extensions should be enabled (and again, which codeblocks are not Haskell)
2020-09-23 08:53:27 +0000hackagerebase 1.8 - A more progressive alternative to the "base" package https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rebase-1.8 (NikitaVolkov)
2020-09-23 08:53:47 +0000 <phadej> it's not impossible, but that is harder than you would first think
2020-09-23 08:54:07 +0000bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
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2020-09-23 08:54:29 +0000 <phadej> and then there's the bikeshedding about what styles to use ;P
2020-09-23 08:54:37 +0000 <phadej> literally picking the colors
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2020-09-23 08:54:55 +0000 <phadej> I guess sane people just stay away from that kind of issues ;)
2020-09-23 08:55:57 +0000hackagererebase 1.8 - Reexports from "base" with a bunch of other standard libraries https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rerebase-1.8 (NikitaVolkov)
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2020-09-23 09:00:02 +0000mrd(~mrd@185.244.214.216) ()
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2020-09-23 09:03:49 +0000 <fendor> I did not look at LinearTypes changes so far. I can see the point, it still feels unsatisfying to me, though.
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2020-09-23 09:16:28 +0000hackagererebase 1.9 - Reexports from "base" with a bunch of other standard libraries https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rerebase-1.9 (NikitaVolkov)
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2020-09-23 09:37:13 +0000 <phadej> hmm. two major version in less than half an hour. rapid development.
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2020-09-23 09:40:25 +0000 <maralorn1> Or rather unstable API.^^
2020-09-23 09:40:59 +0000 <maralorn1> But there is no Changelog, so I don‘t know.
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2020-09-23 09:48:55 +0000 <dminuoso> Seems like the only change was https://github.com/nikita-volkov/rebase/commit/8c273eede30de7caefa06f9833170ab6ac09ff43
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2020-09-23 09:54:30 +0000 <MrZee> wait
2020-09-23 09:54:41 +0000alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:b01d:b174:613e:b4f2)
2020-09-23 09:54:57 +0000 <MrZee> hi
2020-09-23 09:55:45 +0000 <MrZee> how to private chat in there ?
2020-09-23 09:56:21 +0000 <dminuoso> MrZee: That depends on your IRC client. Most clients have the convention of `/query somename` opening a private message window to another user.
2020-09-23 09:57:14 +0000 <MrZee> for example ?
2020-09-23 09:59:34 +0000 <MrZee> i am quit
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2020-09-23 10:11:55 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> I wish I was quit
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2020-09-23 10:18:34 +0000 <edwardk> siraben: fromScope/toScope are useful for that
2020-09-23 10:19:04 +0000 <edwardk> siraben see one of the million examples of nf implemented in bound for that
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2020-09-23 10:43:12 +0000 <dminuoso> Is there a common class representing a sort almost isomorphism with some `to :: C a => a -> Text; from :: (C a, MonadFail m) => Text -> m a`? Im battling with a bulk of boilerplate when carving out ToJSON, ToSchema, ToRow instances for JSON, Swagger and PostgreSQL.
2020-09-23 10:44:50 +0000 <dminuoso> It'd be so much easier if all those libraries presented a flexible interface similar to makeLensesFor, where you can just specify a mapping of field to some name.
2020-09-23 10:45:03 +0000 <phadej> ToSchema takes Proxy a and produces something something Sceham, ToJSON has toJSON and toEncoding, ToRow is ... -> [Action]
2020-09-23 10:45:26 +0000 <phadej> there's really not much in common to try to abstract further
2020-09-23 10:45:43 +0000 <dminuoso> Mmm, well FromRow at least.
2020-09-23 10:47:26 +0000 <dminuoso> I mean, there's at least a very close correspondence between FromJSON/ToJSON and FromField/ToField.
2020-09-23 10:47:43 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 10:48:36 +0000 <dminuoso> The common solution to both is to just use generics, but if I follow that path, I end up with a "database specific" data type, an "external specific data type", and then boilerplaty conversion functions.
2020-09-23 10:48:37 +0000 <phadej> suppose there were some `To tag a` type-class. What kind of function you would write which would have `To tag a => a -> ...` type
2020-09-23 10:48:53 +0000 <phadej> dminuoso: yes, that is right
2020-09-23 10:49:05 +0000 <phadej> database is one (external) interface, JSON API is another
2020-09-23 10:49:22 +0000 <phadej> the fact that you may have same type for both only means that your program is dummy proxy
2020-09-23 10:49:43 +0000 <phadej> (which is not wrong, if that is what it is)
2020-09-23 10:50:06 +0000 <dminuoso> Right, this is the case right now. The point is to remain flexible in the future if the data types ever change, so I dont have much work.
2020-09-23 10:50:52 +0000 <dminuoso> So I can change any three of the representations if need be, without leaking it to the other two
2020-09-23 10:51:01 +0000 <phadej> then, don't use generics :)
2020-09-23 10:51:09 +0000 <phadej> if you don't want have separate types
2020-09-23 10:52:22 +0000 <dminuoso> Perhaps, what I really want is some TH helper for writing isomorphisms where I can just say `makeIso [('fFieldA, 'gFieldA), ('fFieldB', 'gfieldB')]`
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2020-09-23 10:54:47 +0000 <dminuoso> Then I could rely on generic instances whenever I want, keep the representations isolated from each other, and have less boilerplate when converting between the representations (since right *now* its just a mechanical coerce)
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2020-09-23 11:33:45 +0000 <sshine> hi siraben :)
2020-09-23 11:34:06 +0000maralorn1maralorn
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2020-09-23 11:46:04 +0000 <siraben> edwardk: thanks, i'll look into fromScope/toScope
2020-09-23 11:46:14 +0000 <siraben> hi sshine , what are you working on?
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2020-09-23 11:52:22 +0000 <AlexM84> greetings, a noob haskell question here. Doing some haskell learning for fun (cis194 course), building a binary search tree that is somewhat balanced and it turns out that it appears slower than not balanced one (which becomes a linked list really) when I'm trying to get an element by index. Obviously for balanced tree it is O(logN) and for not
2020-09-23 11:52:23 +0000 <AlexM84> balanced it's O(n) but because haskell rebuilds the tree every time the index function is applied it appears to be slower, cause building of that balanced tree is slower. Can someone explain how to force haskell not to rebuild a data structure every time it is accessed or maybe I'm doing something wrong here?
2020-09-23 11:52:50 +0000 <dminuoso> AlexM84: It's best to share your code for starters.
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2020-09-23 11:53:20 +0000 <AlexM84> (+++) :: (Sized m, Monoid m) => JoinList m a -> JoinList m a -> JoinList m a(+++) Empty x = x(+++) x Empty = x (+++) l@(Single _ _) r@(Single _ _) = Append (tag l <> tag r) l r(+++) l r@Append{} = r +++ l(+++) l@(Append s xs ys) r | isPowerOf2 . getSize . size $ s = Append (tag l <> tag r) l r | otherwise = Append (tag xs <> tag subAppend) xs
2020-09-23 11:53:21 +0000 <AlexM84> subAppend where subAppend = ys +++ r
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2020-09-23 11:53:32 +0000 <dminuoso> Can you share it on a pasting website perhaps like gist?
2020-09-23 11:53:45 +0000 <dminuoso> Also, be sure to share your data definitions
2020-09-23 11:53:45 +0000 <AlexM84> oops, sure, sorry folks, give me a sec
2020-09-23 11:53:49 +0000 <AlexM84> yep
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2020-09-23 11:59:05 +0000 <AlexM84> here you go https://gist.github.com/alexmilshtein/9618faa55821a1beb46498b92d3b1c29
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2020-09-23 12:00:01 +0000PjotrOrial1(~PjotrOria@195.140.213.38) ()
2020-09-23 12:01:21 +0000 <AlexM84> if I create a list like so: let lst = L.foldl (+++) Empty $ map (Single (Size 1)) $ [1..100000] and let lstu = L.foldl (++++) Empty $ map (Single (Size 1)) $ [1..100000]
2020-09-23 12:01:43 +0000 <AlexM84> the second one is a lot faster when indexJ function is applied
2020-09-23 12:02:17 +0000toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.182.201) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 12:03:20 +0000 <AlexM84> update the gist with Sized module
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2020-09-23 12:20:08 +0000 <lyxia> if you apply indexJ just once that makes sense since the first one does a lot of work to rebalance the tree. It only pays off once you use indexing a lot
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2020-09-23 12:20:58 +0000 <lyxia> so you should also share your benchmarking code to make it clear whether that's what you're doing
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2020-09-23 12:28:28 +0000 <frdg> From Database.Persist: `update :: PersistEntity val => Key val -> [Update val] -> m ()` I am having trouble understanding the syntax for the `[Update val]` field.
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2020-09-23 12:30:47 +0000 <AlexM84> thanks lyxia, it does makes sense. I don't have benchmarking code written for it, it's just that I was doing it in ghci with +s set, but I guess ghci is not really effective way of doing this as it is just an interpreter. Compiling the code and applying indexJ for the second time gives an instant result, though
2020-09-23 12:31:10 +0000 <frdg> the function is described as `Update individual fields on a specific record.` But I do not understand how the val from Key val and Update val could be the same type.
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2020-09-23 12:34:39 +0000 <jackdk> They aren't. What is Key, and what is Update?
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2020-09-23 12:37:53 +0000 <frdg> key and update are the types
2020-09-23 12:38:51 +0000 <frdg> but wouldn't the val in `Key val` and `Update val` be the same val?
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2020-09-23 12:41:34 +0000 <lyxia> AlexM84: even if you're writing it by hand in ghci it's code you write to measure the performance of something, that's benchmarking code, and it's always worth sharing!
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2020-09-23 12:42:37 +0000 <frdg> jackdk: I figured it out.
2020-09-23 12:42:44 +0000Dolly(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-23 12:42:49 +0000 <jackdk> frdg: cool
2020-09-23 12:43:45 +0000 <dminuoso> AlexM84: Indeed, measuring performance with optimizations disabled can tell you a lot. Sometimes GHC is able to compensate for badly written code, but that should never be relied on. :)
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2020-09-23 12:44:04 +0000 <dminuoso> Algorithmic complexity should in general not depend on optimizations
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2020-09-23 12:47:45 +0000 <AlexM84> lyxia, dminuoso: thanks for suggestions, I've added the line of code I used in ghci to test this out into the gist I shared earlier
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2020-09-23 12:48:41 +0000 <AlexM84> I wonder if it's possible to force ghci not to rebuild the tree if it's accessed subsequently for indexing
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2020-09-23 12:49:38 +0000 <ahri> I have a stack project and I want to start using GHCJS, I've got a (probably) working binary via some nix magic (that I don't really understand and don't want to jump into that rabbit hole just now) - so now I want to build my project with stack/cabal and tell them to use the (global) GHCJS binary as the compiler - I have tried to read the docs and
2020-09-23 12:49:38 +0000 <ahri> search around but it's really not clear to me how I can achieve this last step - any help?
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2020-09-23 13:03:19 +0000 <sshine> ahri, for Stack it seems you want 'system-ghc: true' in case your GHCJS is the system GHC. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44460120/haskell-stack-doesnt-use-system-ghc
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2020-09-23 13:04:16 +0000 <sshine> ahri, but my guess is you'll run into deeper problems here because of this comment: Note that stack can only use a system GHC installation if its version is compatible with the configuration of the current project, particularly the resolver setting.
2020-09-23 13:04:33 +0000 <sshine> and I'm guessing GHCJS doesn't have a valid Stackage resolver :)
2020-09-23 13:04:44 +0000pierrot_pierrot
2020-09-23 13:04:49 +0000 <sshine> but I could be wrong... I don't think Stack + GHCJS is a common combo.
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2020-09-23 13:05:18 +0000 <ahri> no I was wondering about that, I can give it a resolver for the corresponding GHC version this GHCJS is based on, but I have no idea whether that will work
2020-09-23 13:05:41 +0000 <sshine> ahri, did you try with cabal yet? since cabal doesn't try to manage GHC, it should gladly pick whatever GHC you've got.
2020-09-23 13:06:05 +0000 <ahri> not yet, I'm not sure how to tell it to to use my GHCJS binary
2020-09-23 13:06:09 +0000 <sshine> probably not gonna work well... isn't GHCJS a very old GHC?
2020-09-23 13:06:27 +0000 <sshine> what happens if you just run cabal? it uses the wrong GHC?
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2020-09-23 13:07:02 +0000 <sshine> ahri, have you considered looking for a template for your GHCJS project? some of this configuration could come for free.
2020-09-23 13:07:15 +0000 <ahri> the ghcjs binary is called "ghcjs" so I don't know how it would even look for that
2020-09-23 13:07:20 +0000 <sshine> OK.
2020-09-23 13:07:30 +0000 <ahri> as for its age, I have ghcjs based on ghc 8.6.2 so it's not bad
2020-09-23 13:08:03 +0000 <phadej> cabal build takes --ghcjs and --with-compiler flags
2020-09-23 13:08:28 +0000 <ahri> a template might be useful, I'll have a look
2020-09-23 13:08:32 +0000 <sshine> oh wow, I thought GHCJS was still on 7.x :)
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2020-09-23 13:08:38 +0000 <ahri> phadej: oh cool, thanks
2020-09-23 13:09:12 +0000sw1nn(~sw1nn@2a00:23c6:2385:3a00:3ffe:d2e0:5f97:ad25)
2020-09-23 13:09:13 +0000 <ahri> yeah so my current project is actually based on Haste, which is stuck on 7.x, this is why I want to try out ghcjs!
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2020-09-23 13:13:17 +0000 <frdg> I have lists List1 and List2. I would like to compare the head of List1 with every element of List2, then I would like to do the same with List1's tail. What is a nice way to do this?
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2020-09-23 13:17:21 +0000 <frdg> this is like a nested loop in other languages now that I think about it.
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2020-09-23 13:18:40 +0000 <phadej> :t \xs ys m -> Data.Foldable.for_ xs $ \x -> Data.Foldable.for_ ys $ \y -> m x y
2020-09-23 13:18:42 +0000 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Foldable t1, Foldable t2) => t1 t3 -> t2 t4 -> (t3 -> t4 -> f b) -> f ()
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2020-09-23 13:25:38 +0000 <pjb> frdg: compareHeadWithElements list1 list2 = map (\e -> (head list1) < e) list2 compareHeadWithElements [3, 2, 1] [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] => [False,False,False,True,True]
2020-09-23 13:25:44 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 13:26:14 +0000 <hololeap> frdg: what type signature do you want it to have? it isn't clear (to me) what you want to do
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2020-09-23 13:27:15 +0000 <pjb> frdg: how do you compare elements of list2 with an element of list1 and also with a tail of list1?
2020-09-23 13:27:27 +0000hackageprimal 0.2.0.0 - Primeval world of Haskell. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/primal-0.2.0.0 (lehins)
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2020-09-23 13:27:33 +0000 <hololeap> do you want to have a growing list of every comparison, or do you want to stop when a comparison has a certain result?
2020-09-23 13:28:07 +0000 <pjb> do you want to compare all the elements of list1 with all the elements of list2? That would seem more logical.
2020-09-23 13:29:15 +0000 <hololeap> % liftA2 compare [1,2,3] [2,3,4]
2020-09-23 13:29:16 +0000 <yahb> hololeap: [LT,LT,LT,EQ,LT,LT,GT,EQ,LT]
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2020-09-23 13:29:53 +0000 <pjb> compareLists list1 list2 = map (\e1 -> map (\e2 -> e1 < e2) list2) list1 ; compareLists [3, 2, 1] [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] ==> [[False,False,False,True,True],[False,False,True,True,True],[False,True,True,True,True]]
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2020-09-23 13:57:37 +0000 <shad0w_> https://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/
2020-09-23 13:58:17 +0000 <shad0w_> did ^that start the entire monads are like burritos thing ?
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2020-09-23 14:08:25 +0000 <dminuoso> shad0w_: No
2020-09-23 14:08:49 +0000zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
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2020-09-23 14:10:11 +0000 <merijn> No, a blogpost going "monads are like burritos" started that
2020-09-23 14:10:15 +0000 <merijn> Which is objectively stupid
2020-09-23 14:10:22 +0000 <merijn> Because monads aren't like burritos
2020-09-23 14:10:22 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 14:10:31 +0000 <merijn> *co*monads are like burritos
2020-09-23 14:10:31 +0000 <AWizzArd> merijn: do you use Emacs and the Haskell Language Server?
2020-09-23 14:10:39 +0000 <merijn> "it's hard to keep things inside"
2020-09-23 14:10:44 +0000 <merijn> AWizzArd: No and no :p
2020-09-23 14:10:44 +0000 <AWizzArd> hah :)
2020-09-23 14:10:55 +0000 <AWizzArd> merijn: omg, vi?
2020-09-23 14:11:21 +0000 <merijn> vim and some crazy version of ghcide which works so I refuse to touch it :p
2020-09-23 14:11:55 +0000 <pjb> wise programmer!
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2020-09-23 14:12:41 +0000mananamenos(~mananamen@84.122.202.215.dyn.user.ono.com)
2020-09-23 14:14:24 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: lmao not that you asked but, yes and yes ; )
2020-09-23 14:15:02 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 14:15:32 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: excellent, just one question: how do I know that my installation is working correctly? How can I trigger something special that shows me "yup, this thing IS working"?
2020-09-23 14:15:32 +0000 <shad0w_> merijn: DONT TOUCH THAT. i was on version that worked. worked goood for months. then i updated without looking like a moron.
2020-09-23 14:15:57 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: you open a haskell file. look at the mode-line bellow
2020-09-23 14:16:07 +0000frdg(47b88ff9@pool-71-184-143-249.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-23 14:16:23 +0000 <shad0w_> if lsp-mode and lsp-haskell are installed and lsp-mode is hooked to haskell-mode
2020-09-23 14:16:24 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, I experienced that Haskell's LSP + Emacs LSP = really ugly.
2020-09-23 14:16:31 +0000 <merijn> shad0w_: I've been working on this codebase for like 4 years without ghcide, so I'll be fine. But the fact that after opening it suddenly worked after updating is nice :)
2020-09-23 14:16:53 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, maybe I'm an Emacs retard, but the "popups" would basically just flood the buffer in unwanted ways. it was not nice to look at yet. and it seemed somewhat easy to fix, but I couldn't bother.
2020-09-23 14:17:15 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, this was a year ago. maybe something great happened here. the LSP part has surely matured. :)
2020-09-23 14:17:26 +0000 <AWizzArd> sshine: so far I am used to Intero, which seems to offer the best Haskell experience yet.
2020-09-23 14:17:35 +0000plutoniix(~q@node-ujv.pool-125-24.dynamic.totinternet.net)
2020-09-23 14:17:41 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, ah ok. did you try VSCode yet?
2020-09-23 14:17:51 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: first you'd see LSP[lsp-haskell:123456] in the modline
2020-09-23 14:18:14 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, I did try Intero. it was good.
2020-09-23 14:18:19 +0000 <shad0w_> second there'd be all kinds of popups as you start typing. autocomplete. type informations. really hard to miss
2020-09-23 14:18:36 +0000 <sshine> yeah, it really kinda floods your screen. e.g. if your cursor rests on an identifier, it provides a type hint.
2020-09-23 14:18:51 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 14:19:03 +0000 <frdg> hololeap , pjb: sorry for late response. Here is a better explanation of what I would like to do. I have a predicate `p :: a -> b -> Bool`. I would like to apply `p` to with each comparison of the head of List1 with the elements of List2. If the predicate holds I would like to perform `IO ()` and run the function again with the tail of List1.
2020-09-23 14:19:28 +0000sshinewill move back to Emacs once he has a day to pull out of his calendar. ;-)
2020-09-23 14:19:31 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: okay, I’ll be looking for those popups and autocompletions.
2020-09-23 14:19:51 +0000 <AWizzArd> sshine: very good. Emacs is the one and only (:
2020-09-23 14:19:51 +0000 <frdg> the function should terminate if and only if List1 is empty
2020-09-23 14:20:08 +0000 <sshine> AWizzArd, VSCode is pretty neat. but I miss my shortcuts.
2020-09-23 14:20:35 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 14:20:42 +0000 <AWizzArd> sshine: I gave vscode a few tries. Not bad at all.
2020-09-23 14:21:16 +0000 <shad0w_> make sure you turn on interactive-haskell-mode too
2020-09-23 14:21:22 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: ^
2020-09-23 14:21:32 +0000 <sshine> frdg, so... for_ xs (\x -> for_ ys (\y -> when (p x y) m))
2020-09-23 14:21:35 +0000 <shad0w_> i found mine doesn't really work if i dont do that
2020-09-23 14:22:02 +0000 <Guest58863> vs code is really good
2020-09-23 14:22:15 +0000 <sshine> frdg, where those are Data.Foldable.for_ and Control.Monad.when
2020-09-23 14:22:24 +0000 <shad0w_> i installed vs code today to see what all the buzz is about
2020-09-23 14:22:32 +0000 <shad0w_> nope'd in 15 minutes : /
2020-09-23 14:22:37 +0000 <frdg> sshine: I did not think of using when. What is `m` in the expression?
2020-09-23 14:22:50 +0000 <AWizzArd> frdg: in your type signature you promise that you will deliver a pure value, a Bool. So you won’t be able to run IO action, as you didn’t promise it in the sig.
2020-09-23 14:23:21 +0000jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 14:23:35 +0000 <sshine> shad0w_, sure, I get it. but what I'm amazed about is: did you notice that it just downloaded and compiled the necessary LSP stuff? the user experience, beyond your unfortunate opinions about what a good editor is, is really great. :) (unfortunately I have too many opinions, too, which is why I have to run a combination of nvim, emacs and vscode.)
2020-09-23 14:23:50 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
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2020-09-23 14:24:40 +0000 <shad0w_> sshine: i already had all the lsp-stuff installed on my system so it didn't do anything
2020-09-23 14:24:41 +0000 <pjb> frdg: the problem is that with list :: [a] head list :: a and tail list :: [a] therefore you cannot use the sane p to compare head list and tail list with the elements of list2.
2020-09-23 14:24:42 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: is there a way to get the signature of a part of an expression?
2020-09-23 14:24:46 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-23 14:24:59 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: the wut?
2020-09-23 14:25:17 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2020-09-23 14:25:18 +0000 <shad0w_> sshine: but what it did was work right away.
2020-09-23 14:25:20 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: I have: foo a b c And I want to know what type `foo a b` has.
2020-09-23 14:25:43 +0000 <shad0w_> in emacs? sure
2020-09-23 14:25:48 +0000 <AWizzArd> In Intero I can simply mark `foo a b` and will see its signature. The sig of the marked expression.
2020-09-23 14:26:21 +0000 <justsomeguy> What's a good rule of thumb for when to use tuples rather than record types or a data structure like Map?
2020-09-23 14:27:37 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: the way i do it is turn on the interactive-haskell-mode
2020-09-23 14:27:49 +0000 <shad0w_> go C-c C-l
2020-09-23 14:27:51 +0000 <justsomeguy> (Tuples seem strange to me, so I'd like to only use them when appropriate. “length (1,2)” or ``fmap (+3) (1,2)” don't do what I'd expect, for example.)
2020-09-23 14:28:01 +0000 <shad0w_> i'll load the entire file in a ghci buffer for you
2020-09-23 14:28:08 +0000 <shad0w_> you could just do
2020-09-23 14:28:12 +0000 <shad0w_> :t foo a b
2020-09-23 14:28:14 +0000 <lambdabot> error:
2020-09-23 14:28:14 +0000 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: foo :: Expr -> Expr -> t
2020-09-23 14:28:14 +0000 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘for’ (imported from Data.Traversable)
2020-09-23 14:28:16 +0000 <shad0w_> like you do in ghc
2020-09-23 14:28:29 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 14:28:46 +0000 <pjb> frdg: what does the "predicate holds" mean when comparing head list1 to each element of list2 gives a list of booleans? (also you have to check for the end of the list1).
2020-09-23 14:29:05 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 14:29:05 +0000 <shad0w_> it might seem like an overkill, but what i like about it is consistency : )
2020-09-23 14:29:07 +0000 <pjb> frdg: do you want to do a OR or an AND or some other reduction of the results? (majority vote? something?)
2020-09-23 14:29:12 +0000 <Cale> justsomeguy: With respect to the Functor/Traversable/Foldable instances, you should think of pairs as being containers that hold a single element (the last component) with an additional "label" (the first component)
2020-09-23 14:29:38 +0000 <frdg> pjb: predicate holds just means it returns true. This should be an OR reduction I believe
2020-09-23 14:30:31 +0000 <Cale> justsomeguy: They're good as abstract things, but often you will want to transition to defining a proper data type once you have good names for the fields and especially if there are more than two of them
2020-09-23 14:30:44 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-23 14:31:33 +0000Cathy(~Cathy@unaffiliated/cathy) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2020-09-23 14:32:17 +0000 <frdg> Though I know that there exists exactly one element in List2 such that `p (Head List1) ` will hold.
2020-09-23 14:32:59 +0000 <frdg> for all elements in List1.
2020-09-23 14:33:08 +0000 <AWizzArd> any :: Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool
2020-09-23 14:33:46 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: ah okay, so it comes with a repl
2020-09-23 14:34:16 +0000 <justsomeguy> Cale: Would you say it's a good idea to use tuples mostly to facilitate passing around small collections of short-lived things using pattern matching?
2020-09-23 14:34:20 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: how cool is that?
2020-09-23 14:34:28 +0000 <shad0w_> you can do all kinds of stuff
2020-09-23 14:34:40 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: yet still, I can’t see the signature easily. Even a repl won’t help me, because I won’t be "inside" the right context.
2020-09-23 14:34:44 +0000 <shad0w_> it's a haskell-mode thing. nothing to do with lsp though
2020-09-23 14:35:02 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: yes cool, but it is also required. repl is a must.
2020-09-23 14:35:09 +0000 <shad0w_> lsp would show you the type of the entire thing.
2020-09-23 14:35:23 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 14:35:32 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: okay, I will then have to see how to get it showing the sig of marked expressions
2020-09-23 14:35:35 +0000 <shad0w_> there would probably some way to see partial types, but i am not aware of the lsp way to do it yet.
2020-09-23 14:35:47 +0000 <AWizzArd> Yeah, maybe they don’t have it yet.
2020-09-23 14:35:47 +0000 <Cale> justsomeguy: I guess, though the same thing could be said of almost any user defined data type as well, so I don't know
2020-09-23 14:36:02 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: dante and intero were good with this simple stuff
2020-09-23 14:36:32 +0000 <AWizzArd> shad0w_: totally!
2020-09-23 14:36:37 +0000stree(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
2020-09-23 14:36:39 +0000Cathy(~Cathy@unaffiliated/cathy)
2020-09-23 14:36:50 +0000 <shad0w_> maybe you could still use them alongside lsp ?
2020-09-23 14:36:54 +0000stree(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-23 14:38:24 +0000 <justsomeguy> I guess I'll just have to get a feel for it through experience. Your tip about Functor/Traversable/Foldable helps. Thanks Cale :)
2020-09-23 14:38:26 +0000 <shad0w_> AWizzArd: just checked. you sure can
2020-09-23 14:38:31 +0000 <sshine> justsomeguy, I might use a record if I'm passing a value past a boundary that is somewhat a public API... when to name things is probably not specific to Haskell, or even FP.
2020-09-23 14:38:31 +0000ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168)
2020-09-23 14:38:54 +0000 <shad0w_> not sure if they'll interfere with each other in complex cases tho
2020-09-23 14:39:04 +0000tchourihekkaidekapus
2020-09-23 14:39:05 +0000 <Cale> justsomeguy: Yeah, if you think of (k,v) as being a "key/value" pair, it might make more sense how e.g. fmap acts on the value, but not the key
2020-09-23 14:39:12 +0000cerditofaldero(~cerditofa@10.85-87-120.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 14:39:29 +0000 <sshine> justsomeguy, if you can resolve your tupling in the same line as you introduce them, that's excellent. :)
2020-09-23 14:39:36 +0000 <shad0w_> i just did `dante-mode` in a lsp-haskell enabled buffer and asked for type info. no problems.
2020-09-23 14:39:45 +0000 <Cale> justsomeguy: But also, it works the way that it does because that is literally the only legal thing it could do -- if you try writing the instance, you'll see, the type system enforces it.
2020-09-23 14:39:46 +0000 <sshine> shad0w_, nice.
2020-09-23 14:39:58 +0000 <sshine> shad0w_, makes me want to try it soon again.
2020-09-23 14:40:08 +0000 <shad0w_> they're all minor mode after-all
2020-09-23 14:40:30 +0000 <shad0w_> lsps goto definition and instance highlighting are dope
2020-09-23 14:40:39 +0000 <shad0w_> dante for type stuff.
2020-09-23 14:40:49 +0000 <shad0w_> sweet win.
2020-09-23 14:40:50 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 14:40:53 +0000 <shad0w_> or so it seems lol
2020-09-23 14:42:00 +0000 <sshine> didn't try dante-mode before.
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2020-09-23 14:46:22 +0000 <pjb> frdg: and once we've compared the tail what do we do? Do you want to reduce also with each elements of list1?
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2020-09-23 14:51:41 +0000 <frdg> pjb: Here is the code I am talking about. I need to do some more work to be able to tell if it is behaving correctly. All credit to sshine here. https://dpaste.org/9Zyd
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2020-09-23 15:23:53 +0000 <Guest58863> https://oleg.fi/gists/posts/2020-08-04-git-badc0de.html is another very nice post from phadej
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2020-09-23 15:27:01 +0000 <Guest58863> the GC statistics look pretty awesome, it would be interesting to see the original unoptimised stats
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2020-09-23 15:39:13 +0000 <phadej> Guest58863: they looked bad.
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2020-09-23 15:46:37 +0000 <Guest58863> also interesting: Haskell's Children, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24565019
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2020-09-23 16:10:47 +0000 <slack1256> Has anyone done "sed scripts" but with the pipes-ecosystem and a parser combinator library?
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2020-09-23 16:11:26 +0000 <maerwald> slack1256: that is planned for streamly, but I don't think they're there yet
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2020-09-23 16:12:52 +0000 <slack1256> Mmm well any streaming library works. The thing is how to operate over each line of text, so example to substitute strings or having more flexibility.
2020-09-23 16:13:06 +0000 <slack1256> I can always yield the lines where I don't do anything.
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2020-09-23 16:16:45 +0000 <theopcoder> hello
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2020-09-23 16:23:08 +0000 <AWizzArd> For a serious app I’m using servant with many routes. Now I want to build a tiny (dockerized) service. Still servant? Maybe snap? Directly warp? I just want a minimalistic setup.
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2020-09-23 16:24:41 +0000 <maerwald> why do you use servant?
2020-09-23 16:25:56 +0000 <maerwald> last time I touched servant, I had to edit 8 files in total to add a handler
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2020-09-23 16:26:55 +0000 <maerwald> scotty and snap are both simpler
2020-09-23 16:26:57 +0000modaljunk(~modaljunk@gateway/tor-sasl/modaljunk)
2020-09-23 16:27:45 +0000 <Guest58863> slack1256: I think one or two such tools are on hackage, but I don't remember their names
2020-09-23 16:28:06 +0000 <Guest58863> is there any hoogle instance that covers all of hackage ?
2020-09-23 16:28:12 +0000 <maerwald> Snap may be the thing with the best simplicity-feature balance
2020-09-23 16:28:28 +0000geekosaur(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-23 16:28:38 +0000 <maerwald> I wouldn't mind using it for both toy and serious projects
2020-09-23 16:29:01 +0000 <Guest58863> slack1256: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-awk I guess but it may not be streaming in that sense
2020-09-23 16:29:08 +0000 <AWizzArd> maerwald: okay, will try snap. I want to use it programatically and not use the snap exe as shown in the quick tutorial.
2020-09-23 16:29:16 +0000 <maerwald> if you don't have a real consumer of your servant types... then there's no point
2020-09-23 16:30:16 +0000 <AWizzArd> maerwald: we liked the idea in servant that the handlers are described in types. I only need to edit in some cases one single file to change/add a route to servant.
2020-09-23 16:30:19 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 16:30:47 +0000 <maerwald> the point of having it as types is to have consumers of those types... otherwise there's no point
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2020-09-23 16:31:14 +0000glguy(x@freenode/staff/haskell.developer.glguy) (Quit: Quit)
2020-09-23 16:31:14 +0000 <maerwald> (consumers being a haskell client or something that generates clients based on them)
2020-09-23 16:31:21 +0000glguy(x@freenode/staff/haskell.developer.glguy)
2020-09-23 16:31:27 +0000 <AWizzArd> maerwald: I see what you mean.
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2020-09-23 16:32:38 +0000cr0ssw1nd(~crosswind@93.152.144.222)
2020-09-23 16:32:40 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> hey
2020-09-23 16:34:32 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> curious, why ByteString is a "String" and not "Array" ?
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2020-09-23 16:34:50 +0000 <AWizzArd> maerwald: what package do I need to use if I just want to use snap programatically? snap-server? snap-core?
2020-09-23 16:35:44 +0000 <geekosaur> it's an array underneath. but it exports a String interface, not an Array (those already exist elsewhere, see Vector and Array)
2020-09-23 16:35:56 +0000 <maerwald> AWizzArd: usually both
2020-09-23 16:36:06 +0000 <maerwald> AWizzArd: https://github.com/tomsmeding/pastebin-haskell is a simple example
2020-09-23 16:36:21 +0000 <geekosaur> basically, you use types in part to say how you want to make use of the data
2020-09-23 16:36:28 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 16:36:52 +0000 <maerwald> cr0ssw1nd: it's an unfortunate name overall too
2020-09-23 16:37:20 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> geekosaur, so it is usually assumed that ByteString is a piece of text?
2020-09-23 16:37:32 +0000werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-23 16:37:49 +0000 <geekosaur> ByteString treats it more like a string than an array, including that you typically stream it instead of cutting it into individual characters (although as a string it misses some things like encoding support, so you don't want to treat it *too* much like a string)
2020-09-23 16:37:52 +0000cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
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2020-09-23 16:37:56 +0000werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 16:38:20 +0000 <geekosaur> and no, unless you mean raw "text" as transmitted over the internet
2020-09-23 16:38:24 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> got it, kinds semi-string semi-bytes
2020-09-23 16:38:37 +0000 <maerwald> geekosaur: it's the other way around :p String loses encoding info, ByteString doesn't. But you have to carry it around or programmatically figure it out
2020-09-23 16:38:47 +0000 <geekosaur> but even then you want to distinguish between the raw octet form that's transmitted and characters in some useful encoding
2020-09-23 16:38:48 +0000ryansmccoy(~ryansmcco@193.37.254.27) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2020-09-23 16:38:51 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I'm trying to implement conversion of any type (String) into UUID
2020-09-23 16:39:02 +0000ryansmccoy(~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132)
2020-09-23 16:39:25 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> the idea was to convert to ByteString, take 2 halves, hash them into Int, total I have 128 bit, then I can convert to UUID
2020-09-23 16:39:45 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but what I found that UUId is being parsed from ByteString assuming that there are - characters
2020-09-23 16:39:50 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> '-'
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2020-09-23 16:40:21 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> (conversion from String to ByteString in the beginning actually makes no sens, I can hash halves of just String)
2020-09-23 16:41:11 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server/blob/develop/libs/types-common/src/Data/Id.hs#L146
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2020-09-23 16:41:34 +0000Turmfalke(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2020-09-23 16:41:36 +0000 <geekosaur> that's pretty unfortunate, I'd expect the direct encoding myself given what ByteString is. but someone apparently used it as a textual type. (as maerwald said, ByteString is somewhat unfortunately named)
2020-09-23 16:42:20 +0000 <maerwald> what about ByteStream
2020-09-23 16:42:25 +0000 <geekosaur> that said,many network standards talk about octet strings and I'd again argue they're not really that string-like
2020-09-23 16:42:27 +0000werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 16:42:30 +0000 <geekosaur> that'd be better, yes
2020-09-23 16:42:38 +0000justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-09-23 16:42:51 +0000 <geekosaur> some standards talk about octet sequences which would also be better, but that's uncommon iirc
2020-09-23 16:43:21 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 16:45:56 +0000NinjaTrappeur1(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
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2020-09-23 16:46:13 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-09-23 16:46:46 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 16:47:27 +0000 <dolio> "String" is a synonym for array or list in English.
2020-09-23 16:47:35 +0000NinjaTrappeur(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-23 16:47:59 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> hmm
2020-09-23 16:48:00 +0000 <dolio> And mathematicians sometimes refer to values of free monoids/groups as "words".
2020-09-23 16:48:13 +0000DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-23 16:48:14 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> makes sense actually
2020-09-23 16:48:25 +0000 <geekosaur> I'm not sure I'd drag English into the discussion. Consider "sort"
2020-09-23 16:48:51 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but if list and string are the same, then there is even more confusion
2020-09-23 16:49:06 +0000 <maerwald> :t sort of
2020-09-23 16:49:08 +0000 <lambdabot> error: parse error on input ‘of’
2020-09-23 16:49:36 +0000 <dolio> The jargon you're talking about is borrowed from English.
2020-09-23 16:50:07 +0000 <geekosaur> also it turns out that the basic String type is a list
2020-09-23 16:50:16 +0000 <maerwald> I have a bytestring theory
2020-09-23 16:50:22 +0000 <yushyin> in class we often called a list of bits a bitstring, for me bytestring is just bitstring in eightfold!
2020-09-23 16:51:18 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 16:52:47 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> technically all maths are deeply connected to texts :)
2020-09-23 16:53:12 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> would be difficult to do it without text symbols
2020-09-23 16:53:24 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> at least in the form it developed
2020-09-23 16:54:02 +0000 <dolio> Anyhow, it's the same as "list" not necessarily meaning "linked list" to all people, even though in a specifically Haskell context, that's what people usually mean it to refer to.
2020-09-23 16:54:17 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
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2020-09-23 16:55:33 +0000jdgr(601c428b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.96.28.66.139)
2020-09-23 16:55:38 +0000macrover(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
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2020-09-23 16:57:06 +0000RaitoBezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-23 16:57:25 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> what is the quicker way to do this?
2020-09-23 16:57:26 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> Int -> (Word16, Word16, Word16, Word16)
2020-09-23 16:57:34 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> *quickest
2020-09-23 16:57:50 +0000arguapacha(uid134895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mqnmnbqhiqkhrgzy)
2020-09-23 16:58:04 +0000machinedgod(~machinedg@45.78.189.122) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-09-23 16:58:24 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> hmm, I see "foundation" package
2020-09-23 16:58:30 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but not sure that I should try it
2020-09-23 16:58:34 +0000 <yushyin> better name would be CharString instead of String :P
2020-09-23 16:58:35 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 16:58:49 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: You can but Data.Bits for example.
2020-09-23 16:59:06 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: sadly (Word16, Word16, Word16, Word16) doesn't share a representation with Int.
2020-09-23 16:59:21 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> wait
2020-09-23 16:59:32 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> Int isn't 64 bit?
2020-09-23 16:59:34 +0000 <davean> so its just shifts and ands
2020-09-23 16:59:47 +0000 <geekosaur> the problem is, so is Word16
2020-09-23 16:59:55 +0000 <davean> Might not be, but if it was it definately wouldn't share a representation
2020-09-23 17:00:01 +0000 <davean> Int64 is 64bits
2020-09-23 17:00:03 +0000 <dolio> There's a whole module for Word8-based stuff on each bytestring type.
2020-09-23 17:00:04 +0000 <davean> Int is whatever you get
2020-09-23 17:00:14 +0000 <davean> Word16 is platform word size also
2020-09-23 17:00:17 +0000 <davean> plus () boxes
2020-09-23 17:00:21 +0000 <davean> so thats actually 4 pointers
2020-09-23 17:00:24 +0000 <dolio> And the character ones are the ones that specifically mention characters.
2020-09-23 17:00:26 +0000 <geekosaur> ghc doesn't like to deal with things smaller than a machine word
2020-09-23 17:00:31 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> [-2^29 .. 2^29-1]
2020-09-23 17:00:36 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> so 2^30 total
2020-09-23 17:00:41 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> why so?
2020-09-23 17:00:52 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> why not 2^32
2020-09-23 17:00:54 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: Marking bits.
2020-09-23 17:00:58 +0000 <geekosaur> the standard mandates that as a minimum size, leaving room for tag bits
2020-09-23 17:01:06 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: but, you generally do get 64bits on 64bit platforms
2020-09-23 17:01:09 +0000 <geekosaur> ghc happens to ignore the standard there
2020-09-23 17:01:13 +0000 <davean> theres just not guarrentee
2020-09-23 17:01:22 +0000 <davean> but if you demand Int64, use Int64
2020-09-23 17:01:27 +0000 <davean> Don't guess at what a thing means
2020-09-23 17:01:34 +0000monochromfrowns. That's not "ingore", that's "exceed".
2020-09-23 17:01:47 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but what metadata needed from integer?
2020-09-23 17:02:07 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> Int is used by Hashable..
2020-09-23 17:02:07 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: things like GC tags
2020-09-23 17:02:09 +0000 <geekosaur> whether the garbage collector has seen that particular value yet or not
2020-09-23 17:02:18 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> davean, ooh, ok
2020-09-23 17:02:21 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> now I get it
2020-09-23 17:02:27 +0000 <geekosaur> which isn't relevant to ghc's garbage collector but is to some others
2020-09-23 17:02:32 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Quit: quit())
2020-09-23 17:02:46 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: It allows a less overhead for Int in some prepresentations (runtime systems)
2020-09-23 17:02:55 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: which if you wanted a really small Haskell program for example ...
2020-09-23 17:03:07 +0000 <davean> it COULD be useful, GHC doesn't use it, but also Int would be 32 bits on 32 bit platforms
2020-09-23 17:03:14 +0000slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.183.112)
2020-09-23 17:03:16 +0000slack1256(~slack1256@191.125.183.112) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 17:03:18 +0000 <davean> so really, why not say what you want?
2020-09-23 17:03:21 +0000 <davean> And yes 'hashab'e
2020-09-23 17:03:28 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-23 17:03:30 +0000 <davean> but hashable doesn't even hash
2020-09-23 17:03:55 +0000 <davean> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hashable-1.3.0.0/docs/src/Data.Hashable.Class.html#line-312
2020-09-23 17:03:56 +0000GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-09-23 17:03:59 +0000 <AWizzArd> maerwald: oki thanks, i got it working with a basic route and believe I can make it do something meaningful from here.
2020-09-23 17:04:01 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Client Quit)
2020-09-23 17:04:12 +0000GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfb8c7gfd2lu92q.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-09-23 17:04:16 +0000GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfb8c7gfd2lu92q.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-09-23 17:04:16 +0000GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-09-23 17:04:39 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-23 17:04:43 +0000 <davean> (You may just want to use something that depends on hashable mind you)
2020-09-23 17:04:55 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> wait.. doesn't hash?
2020-09-23 17:04:56 +0000 <davean> (but its somewhat important to know that hashable is a lie)
2020-09-23 17:04:59 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: look at that code
2020-09-23 17:05:01 +0000 <davean> it does not hash
2020-09-23 17:05:10 +0000 <davean> hash = id
2020-09-23 17:05:32 +0000 <davean> Like seriously the package should have that in big blinding letters.
2020-09-23 17:05:39 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> for Int
2020-09-23 17:05:58 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but other instances are different
2020-09-23 17:06:03 +0000 <davean> For many things, 'Hashable' doesn't mean you get any independency
2020-09-23 17:06:10 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: some of them
2020-09-23 17:06:31 +0000 <davean> 'Hashable' isn't even pairwise independent though.
2020-09-23 17:06:37 +0000 <davean> or anything.
2020-09-23 17:06:38 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I guess I should take some lib then
2020-09-23 17:06:47 +0000 <davean> it depends on what you're doing
2020-09-23 17:06:49 +0000vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 17:06:50 +0000 <monochrom> id is as pairwise independent as you can get
2020-09-23 17:06:56 +0000 <davean> That may or may not be fine, but you need to know it
2020-09-23 17:07:14 +0000vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
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2020-09-23 17:07:36 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:07:40 +0000 <davean> monochrom: I'd have to double check, I remember this ruining a lot of things because of its predicability.
2020-09-23 17:08:07 +0000 <monochrom> Do you have hash tables in mind?
2020-09-23 17:08:19 +0000 <davean> No, mostly it was sketches
2020-09-23 17:08:22 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 17:08:24 +0000 <monochrom> Or do you have cryptography in minad?
2020-09-23 17:08:37 +0000 <davean> No, cryptography requires cryptographicly secure hashes
2020-09-23 17:08:38 +0000 <monochrom> Because hashable is for hash tables only.
2020-09-23 17:08:52 +0000 <davean> I'm talking hashtable based datastructures
2020-09-23 17:08:54 +0000 <dolio> Is there a better name for what hashable does? Seems like there should be.
2020-09-23 17:09:18 +0000John20(~John@82.46.59.122) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:09:51 +0000zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 17:09:56 +0000 <dolio> id isn't really even a good hash for hashtables, no? Although they're not really used for hashtables.
2020-09-23 17:10:14 +0000 <davean> dolio: no, its really not :/
2020-09-23 17:10:38 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> davean, I just want to get deterministically random `UUID`s from `String`s
2020-09-23 17:10:40 +0000 <dolio> It's probably nice in whatever trie sort of thing unordered containers uses.
2020-09-23 17:10:49 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I see the answer at SO though
2020-09-23 17:11:01 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> no hashtables
2020-09-23 17:11:05 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> no cryptography
2020-09-23 17:11:06 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: use http://hackage.haskell.org/package/uuid then - what you're doing WOULD NOT GENERATE A VALID UUID
2020-09-23 17:11:28 +0000 <davean> UUIDs have standards
2020-09-23 17:11:31 +0000 <davean> its in the RFC
2020-09-23 17:11:38 +0000 <davean> 'uuid' generates them via said standard
2020-09-23 17:11:46 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I have to get value of this interface actually https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server/blob/develop/libs/types-common/src/Data/Id.hs#L146
2020-09-23 17:11:56 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> yeah but bits are bits, no?
2020-09-23 17:11:56 +0000 <davean> you want version 3 or 5
2020-09-23 17:12:01 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: No
2020-09-23 17:12:09 +0000 <davean> UUIDs have structure
2020-09-23 17:12:10 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> so it is not true 128 bits?
2020-09-23 17:12:26 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> it's just size of it but not amount of information there?
2020-09-23 17:12:28 +0000 <davean> UUIDs have structure and guarrentees
2020-09-23 17:12:46 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but look at the code by link
2020-09-23 17:12:53 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> so it is not conventional UUID?
2020-09-23 17:13:02 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> just hexdigits
2020-09-23 17:13:04 +0000 <dolio> WordTrieKeyable
2020-09-23 17:13:07 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> with dashes
2020-09-23 17:13:20 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: thats how you read one, not what the data means.
2020-09-23 17:13:28 +0000 <davean> Theres dashes where there are for a reason.
2020-09-23 17:13:35 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> damn
2020-09-23 17:13:45 +0000 <davean> 'uuid' will generate them as you want
2020-09-23 17:14:00 +0000John20(~John@82.46.59.122)
2020-09-23 17:14:10 +0000 <davean> V1 are based off the mac address of the computer they're generated, a random generation number, and the time
2020-09-23 17:14:26 +0000 <davean> thats how they know its unique for example, because MAC addresses were not for reuse (sadly VMs ignored that)
2020-09-23 17:14:34 +0000 <davean> V3 is based off MD5ing the data
2020-09-23 17:14:41 +0000 <davean> V5 is based off SHAing the data
2020-09-23 17:14:49 +0000 <geekosaur> actually they claimed not to want the dashes earlier
2020-09-23 17:14:53 +0000 <davean> V4 is all but the tagging bits random.
2020-09-23 17:14:55 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> probably I should just hardcode UUIDs then
2020-09-23 17:14:58 +0000shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.37.157) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 17:15:03 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> it's just a migration lol
2020-09-23 17:15:06 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: why not generate them with the V5?
2020-09-23 17:15:21 +0000shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.37.157)
2020-09-23 17:15:22 +0000 <davean> generateNamed :: UUID -> [Word8] -> UUID
2020-09-23 17:15:34 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I have `randomId` method already
2020-09-23 17:15:35 +0000 <davean> you generate a UUID as your namespace, you serialize the data into it, and you get a UUID
2020-09-23 17:16:18 +0000 <davean> If you just want random ones, go V4
2020-09-23 17:16:24 +0000nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-09-23 17:16:36 +0000Saten-san(~Saten-san@ip-62-235-13-88.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-09-23 17:16:41 +0000 <davean> nextRandom :: IO UUID
2020-09-23 17:17:54 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server/blob/develop/libs/types-common/src/Data/Id.hs#L168
2020-09-23 17:18:13 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> the thing is that I use the same collection of usernames in 2 binaries
2020-09-23 17:18:16 +0000heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-23 17:18:19 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> so different UUIDs are generated
2020-09-23 17:18:23 +0000 <davean> Thats what V5 is for
2020-09-23 17:18:40 +0000 <davean> V3 and V5 generate consistent UUIDs for a given piece of data.
2020-09-23 17:18:45 +0000solonarv(~solonarv@anancy-653-1-63-100.w109-217.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2020-09-23 17:19:05 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but I don't want to generate UUID and then convert it to their (Id a)
2020-09-23 17:19:15 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> they already have FromByteString
2020-09-23 17:19:17 +0000Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-09-23 17:19:40 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I think it becomes just impragmatic
2020-09-23 17:19:52 +0000 <davean> ?
2020-09-23 17:19:53 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> for migration
2020-09-23 17:19:58 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> it is just test data
2020-09-23 17:20:11 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I will hardcode it
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2020-09-23 17:20:25 +0000 <davean> Also why did you write your own UUID deserializer?
2020-09-23 17:20:47 +0000xerox_(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:20:51 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I didn't, I wanted to convert user names into hashes and then to UUID
2020-09-23 17:21:03 +0000Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:21:05 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> but yeah
2020-09-23 17:21:06 +0000 <davean> FromByteString (Id a)
2020-09-23 17:21:09 +0000 <davean> That code
2020-09-23 17:21:10 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I forgot about structure of UUID
2020-09-23 17:21:16 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> it's not my code
2020-09-23 17:21:19 +0000 <davean> Ah
2020-09-23 17:21:21 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> I am working on fork of it
2020-09-23 17:21:22 +0000John20(~John@82.46.59.122) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:21:52 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 17:21:54 +0000 <davean> Thats already in uuid and such
2020-09-23 17:22:05 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> just hashing would be a bit better, would automatically scale if I create more test data
2020-09-23 17:22:06 +0000Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
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2020-09-23 17:22:49 +0000 <cr0ssw1nd> davean, it looks for me there is a lot of stuff written from scratch :)
2020-09-23 17:23:00 +0000 <davean> cr0ssw1nd: yah, very confusing to me
2020-09-23 17:24:20 +0000 <davean> I'd say the 'uuid'/'uuid-types' deserializers of them are much better.
2020-09-23 17:24:42 +0000 <davean> well at least faster.
2020-09-23 17:24:47 +0000 <davean> and equally as correct
2020-09-23 17:25:28 +0000hackagefuthask 0.1.0 - Generate Haskell wrappers for Futhark libraries https://hackage.haskell.org/package/futhask-0.1.0 (GustenIsfeldt)
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2020-09-23 17:48:27 +0000 <AWizzArd> I started a Snap server via `quickHttpServe` and see logs appearing that say: Can't open log file "log/error.log". Exception: log/error.log: openFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)
2020-09-23 17:48:45 +0000 <AWizzArd> Those messages appear in my ghci session.
2020-09-23 17:49:07 +0000 <AWizzArd> What does this mean? Does Snap expect that those files already exist when starting the server?
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2020-09-23 17:49:36 +0000 <AWizzArd> Can I let Snap know that I am happy with it logging to Stdout (because AWS CloudWatch will grab everything there and save it away nicely for me)?
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2020-09-23 17:49:41 +0000 <geekosaur> Id start by making sure the log directory exists
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2020-09-23 17:50:21 +0000 <AWizzArd> geekosaur: good, that removed the message. There was indeed no log/ folder yet.
2020-09-23 17:50:41 +0000 <AWizzArd> geekosaur: I still would love to convince Snap to log everything to Stdout instead.
2020-09-23 17:50:48 +0000 <geekosaur> as fr th other, almost certainly possible but I don't know snap
2020-09-23 17:50:59 +0000 <AWizzArd> Okies, I will find that out later :)
2020-09-23 17:51:18 +0000 <geekosaur> and it might not be part of quickHttpServe but some more involved interface
2020-09-23 17:52:09 +0000 <AWizzArd> Yes, I see it’s using FastLogger, which I happen to know from another project. I’ll see how I can configure that guy.
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2020-09-23 18:25:11 +0000 <AWizzArd> In Snap a Config is a Monoid. It exports `setXYZ val Config` to change certain aspects of the defaultConfig. I want to change two settings. Is there a "trick" to do this in a more clever way? let conf = setX myX (setY myY defaultConfig)
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2020-09-23 18:26:34 +0000 <AWizzArd> If I want to add Z and also A, B and C then this nesting will get pretty deep.
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2020-09-23 18:29:10 +0000 <AWizzArd> I thought about something like bind defaultConfig >*> setX myX >*> setY myY ...
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2020-09-23 18:41:23 +0000 <maralorn> AWizzArd: Is it a Monoid in the sense of the type class?
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2020-09-23 18:42:42 +0000 <AWizzArd> maralorn: yes
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2020-09-23 18:42:59 +0000 <maralorn> AWizzArd: Then you want either fold [defaultConfig, setX myX, setY myY] or defaultConfig <> setXmyX <> setY myY.
2020-09-23 18:44:23 +0000Unhammer(~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 18:44:30 +0000Igloo(~igloo@matrix.chaos.earth.li)
2020-09-23 18:44:50 +0000 <AWizzArd> maralorn: I thought exactly about that second variant, with (<>).
2020-09-23 18:45:47 +0000Unhammer(~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer)
2020-09-23 18:46:47 +0000 <AWizzArd> maralorn: I just didn’t see that the "second parameter" would be filled in via <>.
2020-09-23 18:47:26 +0000 <AWizzArd> (<>) :: Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
2020-09-23 18:47:44 +0000 <AWizzArd> The defaultConfig :: Config so a = Config
2020-09-23 18:48:20 +0000 <AWizzArd> Now setX :: X -> Config -> Config
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2020-09-23 18:48:47 +0000 <AWizzArd> So I thought that setX X would have the type Config -> Config
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2020-09-23 18:49:27 +0000 <maralorn> Ah, yeah. It does.^^
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2020-09-23 18:49:54 +0000 <AWizzArd> It is extremly close to what I want, which is "bind for monoids".
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2020-09-23 18:53:05 +0000 <maralorn> AWizzard: The question is this. What exactly does setX do? Can't you just do defaultConfig <> myX
2020-09-23 18:53:19 +0000 <maralorn> Ah, okay
2020-09-23 18:53:30 +0000 <maralorn> I see that's probably a dumb question.
2020-09-23 18:54:43 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@2601:3c0:4100:1793:4079:6d19:ed51:ce60)
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2020-09-23 18:54:58 +0000 <maralorn> But of course what you really want there is function composition. So setX myX $ setY myY $ defaultConfig would just work fine. Although that is boring because it doesn‘t use the Monoid instance.
2020-09-23 18:55:00 +0000Igloo(~igloo@matrix.chaos.earth.li)
2020-09-23 18:55:08 +0000__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
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2020-09-23 18:56:18 +0000 <AWizzArd> maralorn: also a very good idea, I was just wondering if I could indeed gain anything from it being a Semigroup/Monoid.
2020-09-23 18:58:11 +0000 <maralorn> AWizzArd: You can do it: defaultConfig <> foldMap (\f -> f emptyConfig) [setX myX, setY myY]
2020-09-23 18:58:15 +0000 <maralorn> But not sure if that's worth it.^^
2020-09-23 18:58:24 +0000 <AWizzArd> Hehe yes :)
2020-09-23 18:58:38 +0000 <AWizzArd> In the end it must be doable by folding.
2020-09-23 18:59:06 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 18:59:09 +0000 <maralorn> Of course, but that would again not use the Monoid instance
2020-09-23 19:00:03 +0000 <maralorn> foldr ($) defaultConfig [setX myX, setY myY]
2020-09-23 19:00:51 +0000Ariakenom_(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-09-23 19:00:55 +0000 <AWizzArd> exactly
2020-09-23 19:00:59 +0000 <maralorn> And so I can spend an evening on all possible rewrites of a single line of Haskell.
2020-09-23 19:01:20 +0000 <AWizzArd> Well, for now I will just live with the nested settings.
2020-09-23 19:01:25 +0000 <AWizzArd> maralorn: but it was fun :)
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2020-09-23 19:55:58 +0000hackagepantry 0.5.1.3 - Content addressable Haskell package management https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pantry-0.5.1.3 (MichaelSnoyman)
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2020-09-23 20:20:57 +0000hackagelio 0.11.7.1 - Labeled IO Information Flow Control Library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lio-0.11.7.1 (DeianStefan)
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2020-09-23 20:58:27 +0000hackagerng-utils 0.3.1 - RNG within an IORef for convenient concurrent use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rng-utils-0.3.1 (MichaelXavier)
2020-09-23 21:00:01 +0000MasterGruntR75(~MasterGru@s91904426.blix.com) ()
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2020-09-23 21:18:53 +0000 <monochrom> Suppose I have an ADT "data T = C1 | C2 Int | C3 Char Double". Do you say: There are 3 variants? 3 cases? 3 summands? Or any wording I haven't named but you already use.
2020-09-23 21:19:34 +0000 <monochrom> I understand that it can be "3 constructors", but for a technical reason I want to avoid that until the last resort.
2020-09-23 21:19:55 +0000 <dolio> I'd say cases if not constructors, probably.
2020-09-23 21:20:22 +0000 <dolio> Although normally I'd probably only say that if talking about matching.
2020-09-23 21:21:24 +0000rah1(~rah@184.75.221.203)
2020-09-23 21:22:05 +0000 <dolio> You could say 'tags' too, maybe. 'Summand' (or similar words) is probably the worst.
2020-09-23 21:22:51 +0000 <monochrom> Heh.
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2020-09-23 21:23:27 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> monochrom: I'd be more likely to say cases but 'choices' is an option too
2020-09-23 21:23:42 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> options, etc
2020-09-23 21:23:58 +0000 <monochrom> I included "summand" as a candidate because the whole sentence goes like "the sum structure, if there are 2 or more summands, is represented by the :+: type"
2020-09-23 21:23:59 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> Depends on the sentences preceding the use of the word
2020-09-23 21:24:32 +0000 <monochrom> (For the larger context, I'm writing a tutorial or study notes for GHC.Generics!)
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2020-09-23 21:27:44 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> "a value of T can take 3 distinct forms" is something I'd be likely to say too, especially if I didn't want to look up the word summand
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2020-09-23 21:34:54 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> monochrom: In “Software Foundations”, `Inductive day : Type := | monday : day | tuesday : day`, monday, tuesday, etc are called members of `day`.
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2020-09-23 21:44:28 +0000 <phadej> but they are nullary constructors
2020-09-23 21:44:31 +0000 <phadej> so member makes sense
2020-09-23 21:45:17 +0000 <phadej> but in "data Nat = Z | S Nat", Z is member of Nat, but S isn't, when n is member of Nat, then `S n` (applied!) is member of Nat
2020-09-23 21:45:17 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-23 21:46:07 +0000 <phadej> i.e. I think "is member of" is another way to say "is value of type"
2020-09-23 21:46:16 +0000 <EvanR> in everyday language you imagine something can be members of more than one club at the same time, but types don't allow that
2020-09-23 21:46:22 +0000 <hekkaidekapus> The “member” naming lasts for a one paragraph, then “constructor” takes over.
2020-09-23 21:46:30 +0000eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491)
2020-09-23 21:46:38 +0000 <EvanR> unless it's one of those off the wall subtyping theories
2020-09-23 21:46:44 +0000 <phadej> EvanR: yeah, member has very set-theoretical ring to it :)
2020-09-23 21:46:55 +0000 <phadej> one thing can be member of many sets
2020-09-23 21:47:46 +0000 <EvanR> think of types as sets, until you don't
2020-09-23 21:47:50 +0000 <dolio> Not all set theories allow elements to be in more than one set.
2020-09-23 21:48:16 +0000 <EvanR> true, ETCS
2020-09-23 21:48:19 +0000 <monochrom> Everyday language also uses very-flexible subtyping, union typing, intersection typing, and stereotyping. :)
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2020-09-23 21:48:43 +0000 <dolio> They can only be in multiple subsets of a given set, but subsets and sets might not be the same thing.
2020-09-23 21:48:49 +0000 <EvanR> when will GHC support stereotyping?
2020-09-23 21:49:19 +0000 <phadej> I'd say that "constructor" is the word to use
2020-09-23 21:49:28 +0000 <phadej> but if one cannot, than it is ones' problem
2020-09-23 21:49:43 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-23 21:49:52 +0000 <EvanR> when in rome
2020-09-23 21:50:32 +0000 <monochrom> The singletons library (and its design pattern) is based on stereo typing. >:)
2020-09-23 21:50:48 +0000 <dolio> monochrom: nlab says they're called coprojections.
2020-09-23 21:51:00 +0000falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a)
2020-09-23 21:52:13 +0000 <monochrom> For example, you have both "Nat(Z, S)" and "SingNat(SingZ, SingS)" at the same level, and they are in bijection. That's a majectic stereo pair of the same type --- stereo typing. >:)
2020-09-23 21:53:24 +0000 <monochrom> Haha wish me luck if I write a GHC.Generics tutorial and keep saying "coprojections" instead of "data constructors".
2020-09-23 21:53:36 +0000 <glguy> We need some distingushed base types so we can get 2.1 stereo types...
2020-09-23 21:53:43 +0000 <monochrom> or even "injections"
2020-09-23 21:53:49 +0000oab(~oab@214.92-220-221.customer.lyse.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-23 21:53:49 +0000 <dolio> It says you're also allowed to call them injections or inclusions.
2020-09-23 21:53:59 +0000 <dolio> Injection could be misleading, though.
2020-09-23 21:54:37 +0000 <EvanR> if constructors are functions, then they are surely inject. ... right
2020-09-23 21:54:44 +0000 <EvanR> injective
2020-09-23 21:55:02 +0000 <monochrom> Nat(Z, S) is also lifted by DataKinds, that's your subwoofer. Also it's "higher" not "lower", so I guess tweezer?
2020-09-23 21:55:14 +0000 <dolio> Constructors of existential types aren't injective necessarily.
2020-09-23 21:55:31 +0000 <EvanR> how so
2020-09-23 21:55:52 +0000 <EvanR> monochrom you mean tweeter?
2020-09-23 21:56:13 +0000 <dolio> Well, `data E where MkE :: a -> E` only has one value, according to parametricity.
2020-09-23 21:56:22 +0000kip(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxtgcqbxtilezygb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 21:56:29 +0000 <dolio> So it can't be injective.
2020-09-23 21:56:41 +0000 <EvanR> 'the count according to parametricity' always tripped me up
2020-09-23 21:56:58 +0000wpcarro(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rezhuutabpzihnck) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 21:56:58 +0000jackdk(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcbyflyjffmioate) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 21:57:42 +0000ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18)
2020-09-23 21:57:58 +0000 <EvanR> if you specialize E so a is Bool, MkE True = MkE False ?
2020-09-23 21:58:01 +0000wpcarro(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qorfieghthxovgmb)
2020-09-23 21:58:08 +0000 <dolio> Yes.
2020-09-23 21:58:12 +0000 <phadej> no
2020-09-23 21:58:13 +0000jackdk(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtjmdlcvnejwwxlz)
2020-09-23 21:58:18 +0000 <EvanR> round 1 fight
2020-09-23 21:58:19 +0000 <monochrom> Yeah tweeters.
2020-09-23 21:58:30 +0000kip(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dstccjprfxvtgpru)
2020-09-23 21:58:35 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 21:58:38 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-09-23 21:58:42 +0000 <phadej> Haskell just doesnt' allow us to extract types of existentials (sigma types)
2020-09-23 21:58:48 +0000 <int-e> monochrom: Not "twits"?
2020-09-23 21:58:54 +0000 <phadej> but Sigma Bool True /= Sigma Bool False
2020-09-23 21:58:54 +0000 <dolio> That's why they're the same.
2020-09-23 21:59:00 +0000 <dolio> Existential types aren't sigma types.
2020-09-23 21:59:05 +0000 <EvanR> "the same" ...
2020-09-23 21:59:20 +0000 <monochrom> A loudspeaker specialized for high pitches.
2020-09-23 21:59:34 +0000 <EvanR> i think this is where the convo sinks below the surface of the sand trap
2020-09-23 21:59:46 +0000 <monochrom> The opposite of subwoofer (loudspeaker specialized for low bass).
2020-09-23 21:59:47 +0000 <int-e> Oh.
2020-09-23 22:00:02 +0000 <phadej> ok sorry, indeed existential is `Sigma Type id`
2020-09-23 22:00:14 +0000 <ixlun> Hi all, I'm trying to bootstrap cabal-install and I'm getting this error: http://ix.io/2yyb
2020-09-23 22:00:23 +0000 <ixlun> Just wondered if anyone has any ideas?
2020-09-23 22:00:29 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:a8a2:2518:6bde:e621)
2020-09-23 22:01:06 +0000parsnip(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruqytqnmciyoyqlr)
2020-09-23 22:01:17 +0000 <monochrom> Are you sure you must bootstrap cabal-install?
2020-09-23 22:01:29 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
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2020-09-23 22:01:35 +0000 <parsnip> lazy question: Couldn't match type ‘JsonResponse a0’ with ‘Value’
2020-09-23 22:02:03 +0000 <parsnip> expected Req Value, actual Req (JsonResponse a0)
2020-09-23 22:02:05 +0000 <monochrom> ghc-9.1 release candidate?!
2020-09-23 22:02:06 +0000 <dolio> They are extensionally equal.
2020-09-23 22:02:09 +0000 <EvanR> you basically claimed that the existential above effectively loses information
2020-09-23 22:02:24 +0000 <dolio> Yes, hiding information is the purpose of existential types.
2020-09-23 22:02:25 +0000thecoffemaker(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:02:32 +0000 <EvanR> but if you add another method to recover hidden info from an extistentially typed value, how could it be lost
2020-09-23 22:02:37 +0000 <ixlun> monochrom: Yep, I don
2020-09-23 22:02:56 +0000 <ixlun> don't have any haskell packages on this system
2020-09-23 22:02:59 +0000 <EvanR> i think we need stephen hawking for this one
2020-09-23 22:03:13 +0000 <ixlun> so I've built GHC and I'm trying to build cabal to get up and running
2020-09-23 22:03:40 +0000thecoffemaker(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2020-09-23 22:04:19 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-23 22:04:22 +0000 <phadej> https://gist.github.com/phadej/828a8e8daf3ec4d90f694f5bafa79356 <- existentials as sigma types
2020-09-23 22:04:30 +0000 <phadej> and in agda you can tell them appart easilty
2020-09-23 22:04:38 +0000 <phadej> so MkE True /= MkE False
2020-09-23 22:04:40 +0000 <dolio> Haskell isn't Agda.
2020-09-23 22:04:48 +0000 <monochrom> I don't know whether this is an incompatibility betweeh GHC 9.1.0-RC and cabal-install-3.2, or it is a deeper problem.
2020-09-23 22:04:52 +0000 <phadej> dolio: soon it will be
2020-09-23 22:05:01 +0000 <EvanR> in Haskell you could include a way of recovering hidden info as part of your API
2020-09-23 22:05:09 +0000 <int-e> ixlun: "hecking installed packages for ghc-9.1.0.20200923"... probably not a good idea to use an unrelease ghc, but if you do you probably need a development version of Cabal/cabal-install as well.
2020-09-23 22:05:12 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
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2020-09-23 22:05:24 +0000chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a714f1015045819720a2acdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-23 22:05:44 +0000W3BV1P3R(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
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2020-09-23 22:05:54 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-23 22:06:16 +0000 <parsnip> would you recommend http-client or req library?
2020-09-23 22:06:19 +0000 <phadej> dolio: have you better argumented explanation how Haskell's existential types are different from that Agda encoding. sans that just hasn't internal power to reason about them
2020-09-23 22:06:21 +0000 <monochrom> I am also skeptical about the inference "no haskell package, therefore must build from source", but I guess I don't know your system.
2020-09-23 22:06:25 +0000 <int-e> ixlun: if you built ghc from source (as you said) you can look under libraries/Cabal for sources of those
2020-09-23 22:06:32 +0000hyperisco_(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:06:52 +0000ubert(~Thunderbi@91.141.1.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:07:06 +0000lisq(~quassel@lis.moe) (Quit: lisq)
2020-09-23 22:07:12 +0000 <ixlun> Yeah, that's what confuses me, GHC's version of cabal was fine
2020-09-23 22:07:17 +0000lisq(~quassel@lis.moe)
2020-09-23 22:07:23 +0000 <ixlun> As you say, I probably need a dev version of cabal-install.
2020-09-23 22:07:37 +0000 <monochrom> Must you use 9.1?
2020-09-23 22:08:22 +0000falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:08:22 +0000 <int-e> ixlun: But it's saner to just use ghc-8.10.2 for now.
2020-09-23 22:08:33 +0000 <EvanR> extensional equality is apparently relative to a world of things you're allowed to try and check for a difference
2020-09-23 22:08:48 +0000ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 22:09:03 +0000 <monochrom> Eqaulity itself already is.
2020-09-23 22:10:03 +0000 <EvanR> extensional equality being a subequality of "equality itself" ... xD
2020-09-23 22:10:14 +0000 <monochrom> Leibniz law "if x equals y then for all f, f x equals f y". The devil of the detail is what kind of f's you are allowed.
2020-09-23 22:10:31 +0000 <EvanR> ok, leibniz equality
2020-09-23 22:11:07 +0000 <glguy> reasoning starts to get hard when you admit things because they are true in other languages, or when you pull aside the runtime-abstractions the language attempts to provide and look into the RTS
2020-09-23 22:11:14 +0000 <monochrom> "I have not observed any unobservable inequality." http://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/tautologies.html #9 :)
2020-09-23 22:11:45 +0000 <EvanR> nothing unreal exists
2020-09-23 22:12:15 +0000 <ixlun> int-e: I'd prefer that, but I can't get an aarch64 version of ghc-8.10.2 built
2020-09-23 22:12:25 +0000 <ixlun> there must have been a fix post then for aarch64
2020-09-23 22:12:36 +0000 <monochrom> In a nutshell, Leibniz equality is a way to say that inequality has to be observable inequality, you must have an f that tells the difference.
2020-09-23 22:12:55 +0000 <monochrom> Think of f as an accessor.
2020-09-23 22:13:04 +0000 <EvanR> doesn't that make it a negatively defined notion
2020-09-23 22:13:13 +0000 <phadej> glguy: with dataToTag# I can differ `Exists True` and `Exists False` quite easily
2020-09-23 22:13:25 +0000 <EvanR> equality = no method here to see any difference
2020-09-23 22:13:26 +0000 <phadej> and I wouldn't even feel dirty
2020-09-23 22:13:53 +0000 <glguy> phadej: then you're just not reasoning at the level of the language, you're doing something else
2020-09-23 22:15:26 +0000cosimone(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it)
2020-09-23 22:15:41 +0000cosimone_(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 22:15:47 +0000 <EvanR> nvm
2020-09-23 22:15:50 +0000 <phadej> yes, I can agree that we (I and dolio) disagree on the "what means equal". I look at those from outside, and they are different to me. It's true that without using any tricks, data Exists where Exists :: a -> Exists is essentially a ()
2020-09-23 22:16:08 +0000 <phadej> ... from inside Haskell
2020-09-23 22:16:14 +0000ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 22:16:58 +0000 <EvanR> no way to tell a difference from inside haskell, because the example included no way to. Though it could have
2020-09-23 22:17:01 +0000oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-23 22:17:20 +0000 <glguy> EvanR: No point in finding differences in the things we aren't looking at
2020-09-23 22:17:22 +0000 <EvanR> then you'd have an example of an existential that lost less info
2020-09-23 22:18:59 +0000Faker(bd0fcbd1@189.15.203.209)
2020-09-23 22:19:34 +0000 <EvanR> anyway, if you can't tell anyway, does that really mean injectivity is violated?
2020-09-23 22:20:18 +0000Inoperable(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (Excess Flood)
2020-09-23 22:20:40 +0000 <EvanR> like is there an observable violation
2020-09-23 22:20:50 +0000Raito_Bezarius(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-23 22:21:43 +0000 <monochrom> This is why people have disagreements over what referential transparency means. Because they have disagreements over equality in the first place.
2020-09-23 22:21:47 +0000 <dolio> EvanR: Injectivity says `Exists False = Exists True -> False = True`.
2020-09-23 22:22:13 +0000__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 22:23:10 +0000cosimone(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Quit.)
2020-09-23 22:23:16 +0000 <phadej> I don't see how `Exists False = Exists True`, is there non handwavy reference on this difference to "more powerful type-systems"
2020-09-23 22:23:19 +0000 <monochrom> However, I am more reminded of unbelievable compression schemes such as "send it to /dev/null" if you don't expect to recover the information you sent.
2020-09-23 22:24:07 +0000 <monochrom> Also the Chinese idiom "a safe, the key of which is lost".
2020-09-23 22:24:16 +0000dhil(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:24:52 +0000 <monochrom> That aptly describes the unrecoverable existential type.
2020-09-23 22:25:02 +0000 <dolio> I think Bob Harper has written about ML modules, abstract types, existential types, and how dependent sigma types are inadequate to correctly model abstract types.
2020-09-23 22:25:09 +0000 <monochrom> You save some information in it. Then you can't retrieve it.
2020-09-23 22:25:10 +0000 <EvanR> yeah it's mathemtically not injective but how would it manifest as a bug
2020-09-23 22:25:29 +0000 <dolio> It is not "more powerful" to be unable to correctly abstract.
2020-09-23 22:25:39 +0000sudden(~lax@unaffiliated/laxask) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:26:23 +0000 <phadej> if we promote, they are not the same: https://gist.github.com/phadej/539de5929c6acad3b8e2fa60fbf68f14
2020-09-23 22:26:25 +0000 <dolio> Also your position on existential types makes all the equational reasoning people do based on parametricity invalid for Haskell.
2020-09-23 22:26:54 +0000 <phadej> how so?
2020-09-23 22:27:26 +0000 <dolio> Or, for whatever you want to call not even thinking about the abstractions Haskell is supposed to have, just the underlying implementation of them on particular computers.
2020-09-23 22:27:47 +0000 <monochrom> Hrm, you can promote a GADT?! TIL
2020-09-23 22:28:12 +0000 <phadej> monochrom: somewhere in GHC-8 series we got that
2020-09-23 22:28:17 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:28:21 +0000 <monochrom> Ah.
2020-09-23 22:28:47 +0000Ariakenom_(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 22:29:03 +0000Inoperable(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science)
2020-09-23 22:29:10 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
2020-09-23 22:29:11 +0000 <phadej> comparing `MkExists True` and `MkExists False` is not the same as trying to say something about to arbitrary `x :: Exists` and `y :: Exists`
2020-09-23 22:29:12 +0000Ariakenom_(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-09-23 22:30:02 +0000lucasb(uid333435@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bnapwgimpcnsbnzd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-23 22:30:07 +0000 <EvanR> whatever you concluded about arbitrary Exists ought to apply to these examples or
2020-09-23 22:30:17 +0000 <EvanR> somethings up
2020-09-23 22:32:28 +0000 <monochrom> I guess parametricity doesn't apply to the type-kind level?
2020-09-23 22:32:29 +0000 <EvanR> also since i was asking about constructors it's not necessary to consider arbitrary Exists
2020-09-23 22:33:16 +0000 <EvanR> really? what about polykinds
2020-09-23 22:33:26 +0000ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-23 22:33:27 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 22:33:55 +0000 <phadej> forall a. a -> a still has only one non-bottom inhabitant
2020-09-23 22:33:59 +0000 <phadej> nothing what I said violate that
2020-09-23 22:34:59 +0000dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@ptr-eiv6509pb4ifhdr9lsd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-23 22:35:22 +0000 <phadej> there are work even on internal parametricity in dependent type theories
2020-09-23 22:35:39 +0000 <EvanR> more polymorphic "counting" shenanigans :'(
2020-09-23 22:35:56 +0000jespada(~jespada@90.254.241.6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:35:59 +0000ruffianeo(~ruffianeo@p200300e5271f091a0b5616d2c2715e0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 22:36:46 +0000LestatCapulet(~Android@192.95.191.129)
2020-09-23 22:37:00 +0000 <LestatCapulet> Wasabi!
2020-09-23 22:37:12 +0000ChanServ+o monochrom
2020-09-23 22:37:17 +0000 <EvanR> for any given a there are any number of different functions implementing id. But they are extensionally equal. How do you also "consolidate" all the versions across all types too
2020-09-23 22:37:38 +0000 <EvanR> in what sense are they all the same
2020-09-23 22:37:47 +0000Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:38:25 +0000ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:81f:aebf:9d15:7980) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:38:34 +0000 <dolio> They're not all the same. I can use some unsound GHC primop to notice they aren't. Q.E.D.
2020-09-23 22:38:46 +0000 <EvanR> not an answer
2020-09-23 22:39:00 +0000 <dolio> It's exactly the answer I was met with above.
2020-09-23 22:39:10 +0000jespada(~jespada@90.254.241.6)
2020-09-23 22:39:47 +0000 <phadej> I argue that you cannot differentiate values of type `forall a. a -> a`
2020-09-23 22:39:49 +0000EvanRputs on "I'm with dolio" shirt for clarification
2020-09-23 22:40:05 +0000 <phadej> you cannot "fix a" and then try to tell them apart
2020-09-23 22:40:08 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:40:26 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:40:47 +0000 <EvanR> well, you can't differentiate them. I'm asking how you identify them. Or is that the point?
2020-09-23 22:41:13 +0000Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-09-23 22:41:22 +0000 <phadej> parametricity tells that they are all equal.
2020-09-23 22:41:31 +0000fresheyeball(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 22:41:33 +0000 <EvanR> equal in what sense
2020-09-23 22:41:41 +0000 <phadej> extensional
2020-09-23 22:42:12 +0000 <phadej> it doesn't mean that internally you can get that result, and do anything with it
2020-09-23 22:42:18 +0000darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72)
2020-09-23 22:43:07 +0000thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:43:25 +0000 <EvanR> ok I think I got it
2020-09-23 22:44:19 +0000 <phadej> none of these equalities are decidable, "given values of type X you can tell whether they are equal or not"
2020-09-23 22:44:27 +0000 <phadej> but in some corner case you may be able
2020-09-23 22:45:07 +0000thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:45:59 +0000 <phadej> e.g. forall a. a -> a -> a, has two values, you can tell if two values are different, but you cannot really tell (without parametricity) that they are the same
2020-09-23 22:46:27 +0000 <EvanR> i was just trying to think of that example. How do you know if they're different?
2020-09-23 22:46:33 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 22:46:45 +0000 <EvanR> but looking an example for a particular a ?
2020-09-23 22:46:46 +0000 <phadej> f @Bool True False /= f @Bool True False
2020-09-23 22:46:48 +0000 <phadej> yes
2020-09-23 22:46:49 +0000adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-23 22:46:58 +0000 <phadej> err, False True on the other side
2020-09-23 22:47:22 +0000 <phadej> one example is enough to show they are different
2020-09-23 22:47:52 +0000 <phadej> if you happen to find one
2020-09-23 22:48:38 +0000 <phadej> parametricity gives you a hint which examples to try though
2020-09-23 22:49:01 +0000 <phadej> f @Bool True False /= g @Bool True False -- correct one
2020-09-23 22:49:07 +0000 <EvanR> an example is enough to establish a new island in the a -> a -> a universe, i guess, but then you need some sort of universal proof to show the next contestant is extentially equal to one of the two
2020-09-23 22:49:20 +0000 <phadej> yes, that you cannot do
2020-09-23 22:49:29 +0000 <phadej> without using parametricity
2020-09-23 22:49:58 +0000 <phadej> because we cannot try all possible Types
2020-09-23 22:49:59 +0000 <LestatCapulet> Magic Disney Tatertott Power 4TehWin!
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2020-09-23 22:50:07 +0000moobar(sid171730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwbgwosokencdush) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:07 +0000zabracks(sid322453@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msxmmjsyvydbsgce) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:07 +0000ullbeking(sid5364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bggbysfwpcuhsafr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:13 +0000feepo(sid28508@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-keoubknszfxdiopd) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:13 +0000drbrule(sid395654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iplpgvawjbrmytpt) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:13 +0000liszt(sid336875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghtkcbyceanfldej) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000PatrickRobotham_(sid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqyiegismnjqqiaa) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000bradparker(sid262931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izrmtmlnktexefjq) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000typetetris(sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ebarjohavpsswlsn) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000simony(sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-llwdmynarxqvqtjp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000PoliticsII____(sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfpeznjndjxylmbm) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:18 +0000benwr__(sid372383@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pwviulszmavblgkf) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000ghuntley(sid16877@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdutoeaetcykkhmh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000ocharles(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000amatecha__(sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mhkzuyzkzyxujbyp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000bjs(sid190364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stdxojzktsgxjncb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000gregberns_(sid315709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cggqfhzdhztjwufy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000integral(sid296274@p3m/member/integral) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000davetapley(sid666@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vkjdgnhrpgbtbkcs) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000cvlad-(sid203065@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxweceogfvsciarl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000agander_m(sid407952@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-buryiwccjbzhcvjh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000chpatrick(sid239395@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utcyhgxekvhxejbi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000teehemkay(sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjcsbjoqlladnfxk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000totbwf(sid402332@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjmhiwccxkxkteva) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000dgpratt(sid193493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uucxuoqybsgyiift) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000mankyKitty(sid31287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jihesrcsryboipnr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000Cir0X(sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqxcnazabqtiadgx) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:27 +0000lally(sid388228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vhwczorcyqzuicms) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:37 +0000metadave(sid28102@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mrjoylodjlrypfbb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:41 +0000 <LestatCapulet> Lets play sum Tetris AAmodafackerz!
2020-09-23 22:50:45 +0000ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:299e:ec7e:26e2:62a4)
2020-09-23 22:50:47 +0000SrPx(sid108780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pikcoqubfkfixlwr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:47 +0000darthThorik(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwzuxihrfeehhzht) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:47 +0000chessai(sid225296@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfizlxvivbcantln) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:49 +0000adius(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgtgafliufsovuzu) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:53 +0000monochrom+b *!*@192.95.191.129
2020-09-23 22:50:54 +0000LestatCapuletmonochromLestatCapulet
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000Shun131(sid377723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bciclhtcxocmszvr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000mpickering(sid78412@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-exagzdwxeoovxmvn) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000stylewarning(stylewarni@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aacvmntgnkbbrpre) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000enemeth79(sid309041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-juwyanjnqsblnvjw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000rdivyanshu(sid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvhtjrmbhbobdxph) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000sethetter__(sid17895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofqffrfpymacvots) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000Boarders(sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqjgutzzrbwehmim) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000alunduil(alunduil@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rqaajfjptzcjmhjk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000ProofTechnique(sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oabhwrmeevisxbwt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000heyj(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzalwuunujdpcyxl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000natim87(sid286962@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyoculsnckwhiufe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:55 +0000eruditass(uid248673@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwpawjqwxbqtvpqz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:50:57 +0000iphy(sid67735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljktqldirtfuvhxf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:05 +0000Adeon(sid418992@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alybvdyanbyduxzk) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:07 +0000lightandlight(sid135476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lugrjgzcjggtbiby) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:07 +0000rizary(sid220347@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgjmzrjsselnpznk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:16 +0000ocharles(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles)
2020-09-23 22:51:16 +0000 <EvanR> we cannot do what?
2020-09-23 22:51:25 +0000sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000wpcarro(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qorfieghthxovgmb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000Kamuela(sid111576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xlqrhagcwhphbieg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000angerman(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thzdnynaezhogcyk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000betawaffle(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vowkstqoqmkgbeel) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000pent(sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkbroqrhnklldkyz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000alexknvl(sid259568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qorpotgmpomxedyr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000jetpack_joe(sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctheevdrmbwanlfp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000d0liver(sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxubzzchgfajmkwp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000caasih(sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lyrfozrutzyciokb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000carter(sid14827@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lolmerenbdywhelv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000cstrahan(sid36118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijwwaukekmgfdtbb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000grfn(sid449115@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmkxiwvftsjzmtar) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000jlpeters(sid25606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qrrymvptdtkirxre) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000alanz_(sid110616@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uweulygqbqdjzrce) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000edmundnoble(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svsxuztwqrbczrgg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000FMJz____(sid279245@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndzfispoqyyjbfwv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000koankeeper(sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-surgzmxynbvksujv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000liquorice(sid267884@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xylydadfiqqahmvz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000drupol(sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndganimdeoyyzpze) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000newhoggy(sid198874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-frzapkbirclsivhh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000cemerick(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjoooidjnsclfhmo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000buggymcbugfix(sid432603@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lklzoesoqimndwor) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000NemesisD(sid24071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jooxmsmhuiatqwup) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:32 +0000albethere(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vytwtngzpwqzmwzu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000kip(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dstccjprfxvtgpru) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000bitonic(sid61915@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydkmzmcmestwiapm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000PotatoGim(sid99505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-roqgdbepvpkqcqvg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000glowcoil(sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvlppjsxyefvgjgm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000hazard-pointer(sid331723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aszxwmqoaxlphlnc) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000dani-(sid341953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfopvbbambqkrddm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000parsnip(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruqytqnmciyoyqlr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:43 +0000systemfault(sid267009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-coqzndmmhghxnvqs) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:47 +0000idnar(sid12240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfsrbtkqrzazovfm) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:47 +0000lexi-lambda(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kqlffaskqxngpytz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:47 +0000kyagrd__(sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bpqznclhpkuhhkvr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:47 +0000mcfilib(sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcvztaukmltliuld) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:48 +0000wildsebastian(sid324688@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxluugkcnddqzgnu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:48 +0000benl23(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qybbmdkhuhxfnbnc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:48 +0000adamse(sid72084@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cectujjnvjvetnmu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:48 +0000kristjansson(sid126207@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cwnvwggjpyoyfbug) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:51:48 +0000edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:07 +0000howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avwcxcbfgjgwkevh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:09 +0000enemeth79(sid309041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztkkujlriirbyczm)
2020-09-23 22:52:19 +0000 <EvanR> (seems to be a netsplit) phadej: we cannot do what exactly?
2020-09-23 22:52:20 +0000martin_____(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cggakmbaikigvgzv)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000jackdk(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtjmdlcvnejwwxlz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000Nascha(sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mayrideklcmxzbwe) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000elvishjerricco(sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000cbarrett(sid192934@adium/cbarrett) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000billstclair(sid77830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkbezggvjpohupat) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000ebutleriv(sid217783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aihaojuzvhpceszg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000nick_h(sid319833@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrnotesvgbbkgiby) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000eacameron(sid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggdxyrmbjeijhikz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000scav(sid309693@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymzomuxhhppjcvqx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000joshmeredith(sid387798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhammqzjqpqcqprj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000martin____(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ucvmjjneeopyzqlh) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000martin___(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iekzwxitriyjmecf) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000spew(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jkykaxkaupyaxlvb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000rodlogic__(sid214676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzcbsqnofmghakzy) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000parseval(sid239098@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-maeovdrfxjodxdsd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000sgraf(sid326656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgjjxemhusyfacvt) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000affinespaces(sid327561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-surtytzgkagqbptw) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000gluegadget(sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmiumiesupahnofb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:21 +0000martin_____martin____
2020-09-23 22:52:25 +0000graingert(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrquxxvowvtgeikn) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:35 +0000typetetris(sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpqzcabctkypxzuf)
2020-09-23 22:52:37 +0000kristjansson(sid126207@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnpvtzvuodufjtmg)
2020-09-23 22:52:37 +0000cemerick(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nbhjusnctobgzdtj)
2020-09-23 22:52:38 +0000benwr__(sid372383@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ympydwgppzchpmbc)
2020-09-23 22:52:39 +0000pent(sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztipyrtlkdbfutmv)
2020-09-23 22:52:40 +0000zabracks(sid322453@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-biellhbdwvaqjeyr)
2020-09-23 22:52:40 +0000d0liver(sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mobhkddospuvumcg)
2020-09-23 22:52:40 +0000pepeiborra_(sid443799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mukumnrtxgwgxvcg)
2020-09-23 22:52:40 +0000lally(sid388228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttpmvetxyxqhrgnc)
2020-09-23 22:52:40 +0000totbwf(sid402332@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eulltanhbubrhuoe)
2020-09-23 22:52:42 +0000edwardk(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk)
2020-09-23 22:52:42 +0000kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-papgdteawksudphd) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:42 +0000jetpack_joe(sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zepsxlqcwpmeoiye)
2020-09-23 22:52:42 +0000parseval(sid239098@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwazpjswabidvbms)
2020-09-23 22:52:43 +0000parsnip(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjnuxmoamisxbwgm)
2020-09-23 22:52:43 +0000spew(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdyexxcnetkilzyc)
2020-09-23 22:52:43 +0000drupol(sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvykpmtfnmgofllh)
2020-09-23 22:52:43 +0000lightandlight(sid135476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nimetgbujjzfnoxs)
2020-09-23 22:52:44 +0000gluegadget(sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdtzjryntvxgdzkx)
2020-09-23 22:52:44 +0000mpickering(sid78412@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tenczaeanycawpas)
2020-09-23 22:52:45 +0000davetapley(sid666@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-issjvdpiznczxsoo)
2020-09-23 22:52:46 +0000adius(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdslkdkulmqfrsas)
2020-09-23 22:52:46 +0000darthThorik(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eimsyucdiebkhuma)
2020-09-23 22:52:47 +0000metadave(sid28102@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpnnitlhecwrrsgq)
2020-09-23 22:52:47 +0000Shun131(sid377723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzwejgdnirknkdyy)
2020-09-23 22:52:50 +0000martin___(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erkznfebkxmjtljg)
2020-09-23 22:52:51 +0000bitonic(sid61915@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-indhjgkukoetiqtf)
2020-09-23 22:52:52 +0000Adeon(sid418992@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cvwbjodfepluylyi)
2020-09-23 22:52:54 +0000 <glguy> "netsplit" / irccloud instability
2020-09-23 22:52:54 +0000betawaffle(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjxfsafadmlzfybj)
2020-09-23 22:52:55 +0000liszt(sid336875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uteuxgmqmrjwpffv)
2020-09-23 22:52:55 +0000buggymcbugfix(sid432603@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-segxurmailgbipxk)
2020-09-23 22:52:55 +0000edmundnoble(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xckfdnnctkwioehd)
2020-09-23 22:52:58 +0000glowcoil(sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxenmydbtxdrjhcw)
2020-09-23 22:52:59 +0000irc_user(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zcagtoolpvznahhu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:59 +0000pepeiborra(sid443799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bikhixmhqqkozscp) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:52:59 +0000pepeiborra_pepeiborra
2020-09-23 22:53:06 +0000angerman(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjowxznciagzmqyd)
2020-09-23 22:53:07 +0000JSharp(sid4580@wikia/JSharp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:53:14 +0000kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmjxijjconjdwmfh)
2020-09-23 22:53:15 +0000 <Clint> reboot the internet
2020-09-23 22:53:21 +0000gregberns_(sid315709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxdaqtbgiynqrhqa)
2020-09-23 22:53:25 +0000entel(uid256215@botters/entel) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:53:31 +0000hazard-pointer(sid331723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyiwpjjxikwikqxq)
2020-09-23 22:53:33 +0000thi(sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wriovfhjtmcdbcjt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:53:34 +0000agander_m(sid407952@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwoqulslpyqlylbi)
2020-09-23 22:53:43 +0000srhb(sid400352@NixOS/user/srhb) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:53:52 +0000alehander92(sid331460@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idkdgfbsseuoqnwz)
2020-09-23 22:53:53 +0000heyj(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdaknvkrpgxotygi)
2020-09-23 22:53:55 +0000koankeeper(sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuumlbepnnvmulch)
2020-09-23 22:53:55 +0000 <EvanR> I thought it was irccloud.com then i saw edwardk ping timeout too
2020-09-23 22:53:56 +0000eacameron(sid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqavlegecgsakqev)
2020-09-23 22:53:57 +0000scav(sid309693@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sroyhqfgixitzetl)
2020-09-23 22:53:58 +0000integral(sid296274@p3m/member/integral)
2020-09-23 22:54:00 +0000Cir0X(sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghtetmherfetfvlm)
2020-09-23 22:54:00 +0000cvlad-(sid203065@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fewqvluttyvfpqrl)
2020-09-23 22:54:00 +0000wpcarro(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmnsiiwhaheypbna)
2020-09-23 22:54:05 +0000wildsebastian(sid324688@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-noxobrzcxmeunedz)
2020-09-23 22:54:08 +0000alanz_(sid110616@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oljjdoyrlaarrctj)
2020-09-23 22:54:14 +0000idnar(sid12240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wekokikpeshbhqyj)
2020-09-23 22:54:19 +0000billstclair(sid77830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfktjwoadztbgrwu)
2020-09-23 22:54:20 +0000alexknvl(sid259568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxewnkgtcktglgdk)
2020-09-23 22:54:21 +0000Nascha(sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-veqfssgsdgrwspqx)
2020-09-23 22:54:22 +0000teehemkay(sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqijularyrnvcadd)
2020-09-23 22:54:24 +0000rdivyanshu(sid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlikewfaiqjbobsd)
2020-09-23 22:54:25 +0000benl23(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymhnarrzfbwgukrc)
2020-09-23 22:54:26 +0000bradparker(sid262931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mofanjllsexcdrco)
2020-09-23 22:54:27 +0000cbarrett(sid192934@adium/cbarrett)
2020-09-23 22:54:27 +0000natim87(sid286962@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owkkkawkmfdtpxis)
2020-09-23 22:54:29 +0000stylewarning(stylewarni@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvpnoawijpdmmxja)
2020-09-23 22:54:30 +0000iphy(sid67735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kldcelvhnttznwir)
2020-09-23 22:54:31 +0000 <glguy> EvanR: what did you conclude from seeing that?
2020-09-23 22:54:32 +0000liquorice(sid267884@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ubxyjvrpmxhwnqkq)
2020-09-23 22:54:33 +0000kip(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmonmsxkcjhjcgqe)
2020-09-23 22:54:34 +0000affinespaces(sid327561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kvltnsabbhcplluv)
2020-09-23 22:54:34 +0000mcfilib(sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayrowhifopnqemcf)
2020-09-23 22:54:35 +0000srhb(sid400352@NixOS/user/srhb)
2020-09-23 22:54:35 +0000thi(sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skwjfzenuehplhxv)
2020-09-23 22:54:36 +0000sethetter__(sid17895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gjrsztjbkfnqxzcl)
2020-09-23 22:54:38 +0000bjs(sid190364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sffmijuqwritxret)
2020-09-23 22:54:38 +0000carter(sid14827@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iroznbxhtklfnfzx)
2020-09-23 22:54:38 +0000albethere(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egacnjjdaxtejyln)
2020-09-23 22:54:41 +0000simony(sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vcsdewznrdwwgnis)
2020-09-23 22:54:43 +0000Kamuela(sid111576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffwzngkqaohtkylu)
2020-09-23 22:54:44 +0000howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svpcvlpkamjtfitp)
2020-09-23 22:54:45 +0000joshmeredith(sid387798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tocpehdjhiusuwgk)
2020-09-23 22:54:45 +0000SrPx(sid108780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjejjdsspacspndl)
2020-09-23 22:54:48 +0000jlpeters(sid25606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twwkkqhyyggfdivq)
2020-09-23 22:54:50 +0000sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2020-09-23 22:54:53 +0000feepo(sid28508@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yvdfjmicbugqxtqj)
2020-09-23 22:54:58 +0000irc_user(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awewgjdwbaknrfwe)
2020-09-23 22:54:58 +0000FMJz____(sid279245@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxlxmdepyepdjiiz)
2020-09-23 22:54:59 +0000chessai(sid225296@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zzehzebrnlswozjp)
2020-09-23 22:55:01 +0000ullbeking(sid5364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nuizesoknxmuomew)
2020-09-23 22:55:02 +0000 <monochrom> Perhaps edwardk is on irccloud.com too.
2020-09-23 22:55:03 +0000chpatrick(sid239395@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgwhhvpaceqfpsfd)
2020-09-23 22:55:03 +0000 <EvanR> there's a conspiracy from irccloud to take down edk's client
2020-09-23 22:55:04 +0000ebutleriv(sid217783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xojalosetjeggitu)
2020-09-23 22:55:04 +0000ProofTechnique(sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tponbxdqtfpxmwel)
2020-09-23 22:55:05 +0000kyagrd__(sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cczxifxwkgykmgul)
2020-09-23 22:55:05 +0000mankyKitty(sid31287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stbsqcajexfluxuf)
2020-09-23 22:55:06 +0000cstrahan(sid36118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpyatyyfmsjoedfl)
2020-09-23 22:55:08 +0000dgpratt(sid193493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfcngfvjfuasdztv)
2020-09-23 22:55:09 +0000 <EvanR> or that
2020-09-23 22:55:11 +0000caasih(sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-inrpoiaisxjinedq)
2020-09-23 22:55:12 +0000ghuntley(sid16877@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luqtfrbjedshlyyp)
2020-09-23 22:55:17 +0000PatrickRobotham_(sid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnvdpghrecuvxqhe)
2020-09-23 22:55:17 +0000newhoggy(sid198874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjtefuttsgcyxcav)
2020-09-23 22:55:18 +0000elvishjerricco(sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco)
2020-09-23 22:55:18 +0000grfn(sid449115@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rvpditypzabzksng)
2020-09-23 22:55:18 +0000xyggos(uid216035@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmxaxxurlecshsab) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:55:19 +0000amatecha__(sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbrqcxiojnxeeyta)
2020-09-23 22:55:20 +0000eruditass(uid248673@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eolintwxiwbmuxmq)
2020-09-23 22:55:22 +0000entel(uid256215@botters/entel)
2020-09-23 22:55:23 +0000 <monochrom> I support conspiracy theories.
2020-09-23 22:55:25 +0000alunduil(alunduil@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vymgafgkgglqgroh)
2020-09-23 22:55:29 +0000 <EvanR> but he's the only one with a mask? crazy
2020-09-23 22:55:32 +0000adamse(sid72084@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibjuwillctxzxezq)
2020-09-23 22:55:36 +0000sgraf(sid326656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqdvppnreegksoze)
2020-09-23 22:55:52 +0000drbrule(sid395654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogdudpwfmbcjqaew)
2020-09-23 22:55:52 +0000rizary(sid220347@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fasoxblpleyerysc)
2020-09-23 22:55:53 +0000rodlogic__(sid214676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uruhlkshnartaizk)
2020-09-23 22:55:59 +0000jackdk(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gslbfnrpxcdhxppp)
2020-09-23 22:56:00 +0000 <glguy> gateway cloaks (like irccloud users have) override unaffiliated cloaks
2020-09-23 22:56:01 +0000dani-(sid341953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmefyomzdfqtzrok)
2020-09-23 22:56:01 +0000lexi-lambda(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogjhnupgzawfysnk)
2020-09-23 22:56:03 +0000systemfault(sid267009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-domoukaafsguzygi)
2020-09-23 22:56:13 +0000graingert(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oaiulwhfwjkhanpm)
2020-09-23 22:56:18 +0000PoliticsII____(sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kufaifprsfovqzzx)
2020-09-23 22:56:19 +0000xyggos(uid216035@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hospzqdbwodsdydc)
2020-09-23 22:56:37 +0000JSharp(sid4580@wikia/JSharp)
2020-09-23 22:56:43 +0000 <dolio> If you want to understand part of why sigma and exists don't line up, you can actually read some of the work on parametricity in dependent type theories. Like Cavallo and Harper on parametricity in cubical type theory. There they point out that 'bridges' (relations, on which parametricity is based) and 'paths' (on which 'equality' is based) disagree for the universe. And the path type for a Σ type corresponds to paths for its components. So a path f
2020-09-23 22:56:44 +0000 <dolio> or a (Σ U) type is going to be talking about *paths* between types, rather than relations between types. However, the point of a parametric existential type is for values to be equal based on a relational criterion.
2020-09-23 22:56:45 +0000moobar(sid171730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uosvpoonemwbnosq)
2020-09-23 22:57:09 +0000Boarders(sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknwefewrylbhwhw)
2020-09-23 22:57:29 +0000PotatoGim(sid99505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zoyefvrqhzvagror)
2020-09-23 22:57:41 +0000nick_h(sid319833@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wfhraakyeevpkesp)
2020-09-23 22:58:05 +0000NemesisD(sid24071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbgzpmcbhsxfreot)
2020-09-23 22:58:19 +0000heyj(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdaknvkrpgxotygi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:58:32 +0000edmundnoble(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xckfdnnctkwioehd) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:58:32 +0000spew(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdyexxcnetkilzyc) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:58:32 +0000cemerick(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nbhjusnctobgzdtj) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:58:32 +0000ocharles(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:58:42 +0000betawaffle(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjxfsafadmlzfybj) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 22:59:13 +0000LestatC95(~Android@2605:8d80:662:fdea:ed2:3fc2:27b3:bdc3)
2020-09-23 22:59:36 +0000 <jamestmartin> is it possible to export a function which uses an instance of a typeclass without exporting the instance itself?
2020-09-23 23:00:30 +0000 <jamestmartin> while also exporting the typeclass, just not the instance
2020-09-23 23:00:41 +0000spew(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlyhvwsiznqfylsw)
2020-09-23 23:00:42 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-23 23:00:58 +0000ocharles(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles)
2020-09-23 23:01:04 +0000cemerick(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jgattjyyxojabrge)
2020-09-23 23:01:51 +0000 <EvanR> well that helps, parametricity is based on relations
2020-09-23 23:02:11 +0000 <EvanR> is there a readable paper on that
2020-09-23 23:02:24 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-23 23:02:36 +0000 <glguy> jamestmartin: No, you can't avoid exporting an instance
2020-09-23 23:02:48 +0000 <jamestmartin> alright then
2020-09-23 23:02:55 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-23 23:02:59 +0000 <dolio> Wadler's Theorems for Free, maybe. I forget.
2020-09-23 23:03:16 +0000 <jamestmartin> well, with linear types coming soon, that won't be necessary anyhow
2020-09-23 23:03:21 +0000 <jamestmartin> I was just curious
2020-09-23 23:04:41 +0000nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:a8a2:2518:6bde:e621) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-23 23:05:52 +0000macrover(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-23 23:06:05 +0000 <jamestmartin> man, I'm hyped for linear types though. that's gonna be useful in so many ways.
2020-09-23 23:07:17 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:08:27 +0000 <EvanR> linear types coming soon?
2020-09-23 23:09:20 +0000 <jamestmartin> linear types are going to be in ghc 8.12 from what I've heard
2020-09-23 23:09:58 +0000heyj(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxveayvtjepkleli)
2020-09-23 23:10:07 +0000 <EvanR> damn that's sexy
2020-09-23 23:10:17 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-23 23:11:41 +0000edmundnoble(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aamqtvpjhykeshcn)
2020-09-23 23:12:36 +0000betawaffle(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wauonuwppwmwhziv)
2020-09-23 23:12:50 +0000aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-23 23:13:13 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> linear types should be pretty useful, they're the perfect way to shift people from complaining about IO being infections to complain about linearity being infectious
2020-09-23 23:14:08 +0000aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-23 23:14:56 +0000 <int-e> . o O ( Can we make it so that only one person can complain at a time? )
2020-09-23 23:15:22 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:16:04 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> :D
2020-09-23 23:16:28 +0000hackagebytestring 0.11.0.0 - Fast, compact, strict and lazy byte strings with a list interface https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.11.0.0 (Bodigrim)
2020-09-23 23:16:45 +0000jedws(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-23 23:16:54 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> If a complain is registered we promise it will be looked at exactly once.
2020-09-23 23:17:03 +0000mpereira(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:17:14 +0000fresheyeball(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:18:25 +0000josh(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-23 23:19:00 +0000josh(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 23:19:47 +0000acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237860d9dcd65723cec3bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:23:14 +0000josh(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:24:57 +0000aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-23 23:26:39 +0000justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
2020-09-23 23:26:44 +0000aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-23 23:27:52 +0000 <hpc> in rust, you promise it will be looked at, at most once :D
2020-09-23 23:27:57 +0000macrover(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:28:33 +0000minwuek(uid466029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkobzjneikrfqrhj)
2020-09-23 23:28:49 +0000 <MarcelineVQ> the trick is just not to look, or if you look, put it back when you're done
2020-09-23 23:30:00 +0000wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 23:30:37 +0000acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237863349b0df7f7aa9c44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-23 23:30:52 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:31:06 +0000DavidEichmann(~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:31:07 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-23 23:31:32 +0000sfvm(~sfvm@37.228.215.148)
2020-09-23 23:32:17 +0000 <LestatC95> Chaos theory reigns Supreme....Lysanders in!
2020-09-23 23:33:27 +0000gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-23 23:33:59 +0000LestatC95(~Android@2605:8d80:662:fdea:ed2:3fc2:27b3:bdc3) (Quit: -a- IRC for Android 2.1.59)
2020-09-23 23:34:15 +0000MarcelineVQdrips drinking water on a paleobotanist's hand in a pervy way during a jostling cross-country car trip
2020-09-23 23:34:38 +0000wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:35:22 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-23 23:40:09 +0000wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:42:38 +0000sudden(~lax@unaffiliated/laxask)
2020-09-23 23:42:55 +0000merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-23 23:47:54 +0000Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgqcljxsodhaxjzg)
2020-09-23 23:48:57 +0000acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237863349b0df7f7aa9c44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:51:15 +0000 <koz_> I'm getting some DerivingStrategies weirdness: https://gist.github.com/kozross/e8dbf3587ec59738e3e3cd06067cdd28
2020-09-23 23:51:35 +0000 <koz_> I kinda get why this is happening, but I am unsure how to resolve it.
2020-09-23 23:51:55 +0000 <glguy> koz_: I got to here: https://gist.github.com/kozross/e8dbf3587ec59738e3e3cd06067cdd28#file-ll1-hs-L15-L18 ; the applicative instance doesn't satisfy the laws
2020-09-23 23:52:23 +0000 <koz_> Yep, that's a good catch.
2020-09-23 23:52:35 +0000 <koz_> This is what happens when you try and transpose academic papers rofl.
2020-09-23 23:53:12 +0000Thra11(~Thra11@5.1.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-23 23:54:01 +0000 <koz_> glguy: Updated, nice catch.
2020-09-23 23:54:07 +0000mpereira(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
2020-09-23 23:54:32 +0000xerox_(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:55:26 +0000 <koz_> DerivingVia still explodes with the same error.
2020-09-23 23:55:45 +0000 <koz_> How would I go about remedying this? In theory, (Alt f, Alt g) => Alt (Product f g) holds.
2020-09-23 23:55:46 +0000son0p(~son0p@181.136.122.143) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-23 23:57:13 +0000alexm_(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-23 23:57:34 +0000 <solonarv> what happens if you replace line 35 with 'deriving newtype (Alt)' ?
2020-09-23 23:57:48 +0000 <koz_> solonarv: Same error. That was the first thing I tried.
2020-09-23 23:58:51 +0000mpereira(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)