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2024-04-16 02:20:58 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@47.229.123.186)
2024-04-16 02:33:27 +0200 <Inst> what's the replacement for overlapping instances again?
2024-04-16 02:34:29 +0200 <dolio> The various pragmas with similar names.
2024-04-16 02:34:32 +0200 <geekosaur> overlapping instances are still there, you just do them differently (fine control instead of indiscriminately in a whole source file)
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2024-04-16 03:07:51 +0200 <probie> Which of the parser combinator libraries (or any parsing library if it's really good) do people recommend these days if I don't really care about performance, but would like to give helpful error messages? My current choice is trifecta, but is there something better?
2024-04-16 03:11:24 +0200gabiruh(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2024-04-16 03:12:16 +0200gabiruh(~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br)
2024-04-16 03:12:28 +0200 <jackdk> I could never figure out trifecta. If you and your team make it work, I don't see any reason to change. I don't know if it caught on, but someone released https://github.com/mesabloo/diagnose | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/diagnose a couple of years back, and it appears to have converters for megaparsec errors
2024-04-16 03:13:03 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-212-165.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 03:13:20 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-04-16 03:15:15 +0200 <jackdk> The discussion around the announcement for `diagnose` also makes reference to `errata` and `chapelure`. I'd be interested to know if you evaluate these and like one or the other the most
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2024-04-16 03:19:24 +0200 <sm> megaparsec++
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2024-04-16 03:24:50 +0200JeremyB99(~JeremyB99@208.64.173.20)
2024-04-16 03:27:35 +0200 <probie> Using something like diagnose or errata seems like a good idea. I think I'll be boring and go with megaparsec + diagnose
2024-04-16 03:28:08 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142)
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2024-04-16 03:34:22 +0200 <Inst> I don't understand why people complain about lazy functional programming
2024-04-16 03:34:30 +0200 <Inst> trying to inject FP into Julia, ugh
2024-04-16 03:34:50 +0200 <Inst> at least Python turns FP idioms into iterators
2024-04-16 03:34:57 +0200 <geekosaur> <cynic> it forces them to think </cynic>
2024-04-16 03:36:07 +0200mei(~mei@user/mei)
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2024-04-16 03:37:14 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@mail.yuuta.moe)
2024-04-16 03:38:39 +0200 <Inst> like, typed FP is an optimum for FP
2024-04-16 03:39:24 +0200 <Inst> has drawbacks, but usually being familiar with workarounds solves the problem
2024-04-16 03:40:14 +0200 <Inst> lazy FP also seems to be a local maxima, since while you have to worry about space leaks, you only get as much processing as you need
2024-04-16 03:43:59 +0200 <monochrom> <extreme cynicism> Because programmers are control freaks. </extreme cynicism>
2024-04-16 03:45:04 +0200 <monochrom> <moar extreme cynicism> Oh they are also hypocrites too. Look how they embrace OOP which obscures control even more than laziness does </moar extreme cynicism>
2024-04-16 03:45:33 +0200 <monochrom> At that point I'm wondering if I should just s/cynicism/fundamental hatred of humanity/
2024-04-16 03:46:07 +0200 <probie> monochrom: You're not wrong. In my late teens, I had a bad habit of writing inline assembly in my C because I didn't trust the compiler to produce "the right" code (ignoring the fact that gcc generally did a better job than me anyway)
2024-04-16 03:46:14 +0200 <Inst> don't, it made me very very unpopular
2024-04-16 03:47:15 +0200otto_s(~user@p4ff27773.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-16 03:47:37 +0200 <geekosaur> I only resorted to inline asm in 2 cases, and in both of them I considered it a compiler bug
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2024-04-16 03:47:55 +0200 <geekosaur> it's the compiler's job to worry about the asm for me!
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2024-04-16 03:55:26 +0200 <geekosaur> granted, I started out writing asm (and hand-assembling it, for ancient microcomputers). for me the whole point of a compiler was to get away from writing the asm myself
2024-04-16 03:57:03 +0200 <jackdk> probie: if you move off trifecta, write up an example first for the rest of us?
2024-04-16 03:58:27 +0200segfaultfizzbuzz(~segfaultf@12.172.217.142) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-16 03:58:34 +0200 <geekosaur> (also, C was my introduction to types. if this doesn't make sense to you, you didn't start out doing asm)
2024-04-16 04:02:33 +0200cipherrot(~znc-user@user/petrichor)
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2024-04-16 04:03:13 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
2024-04-16 04:04:08 +0200 <monochrom> It is OK to start types with that. That's what happened at the beginning of PL research too. For example Strachey's Fundamental Concepts in Programming Languages.
2024-04-16 04:04:30 +0200 <jackdk> geekosaur: staring out doing BASIC meant that C could be my introduction to types, too. Though I dabbled in pascal for a while, but a young kid with a textbook and no-one else to talk to about pascal can only get so far
2024-04-16 04:07:05 +0200 <geekosaur> strictly speaking I started out on BASIC too, but it was such a limited toy that I abandoned it for asm quickly
2024-04-16 04:08:56 +0200bitdex(~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
2024-04-16 04:14:14 +0200 <monochrom> Oh BASIC had types. It was just combining the type safety of C with the hungarian-wannabe sigil system of Perl.
2024-04-16 04:14:42 +0200 <monochrom> N is of the number type, N$ is of the string type.
2024-04-16 04:14:59 +0200 <jackdk> despite predating both
2024-04-16 04:15:40 +0200 <jackdk> VB (and maybe others) extended that to avoid having to write `dim i as integer`: you had `%` for ints, `&` for longs, etc. (IIRC)
2024-04-16 04:18:16 +0200 <c_wraith> that definitely predates VB. It was in the old TRS-80 basic I first learned to program in.
2024-04-16 04:18:40 +0200 <geekosaur> I recall it having % but not &
2024-04-16 04:18:46 +0200 <c_wraith> well. not longs, that hardware didn't have them. But it had integers and floats.
2024-04-16 04:18:54 +0200 <geekosaur> yeh
2024-04-16 04:19:00 +0200 <c_wraith> though it didn't have floating-point hardware, so they were *slow*
2024-04-16 04:19:53 +0200 <geekosaur> nobody had invented floating point coprocessors yet. and when Intel got around to it, it was a sideboard stack machine
2024-04-16 04:20:26 +0200 <geekosaur> I was especially happy to let the compiler deal with that mess
2024-04-16 04:21:04 +0200 <jackdk> kids these days don't know how good they have it. I remember an errata card for TI (99/4A) Extended Basic saying they removed the ability for subroutines to call themselves because "it was occasionally useful but mostly a mistake"
2024-04-16 04:21:51 +0200 <monochrom> Nah I think kids these days would love to have that card mandated so they don't have to learn recursion.
2024-04-16 04:22:13 +0200sgarcia_(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com) (Quit: Hosted by www.ZNCHost.com)
2024-04-16 04:22:18 +0200 <geekosaur> that one is understandable though, the TMS9900 thought it was a baby IBM mainframe. BALR anyone?
2024-04-16 04:23:06 +0200 <monochrom> But BASIC's dumb GOSUB rendered recursion useless. So the claim was right in context. (You need at least parameter passing to make recursion useful.)
2024-04-16 04:23:09 +0200 <geekosaur> (stuffed the return address into a register, and $DEITY help you if you overwrote it)
2024-04-16 04:23:42 +0200 <monochrom> Well, perhaps s/dumb/simpleton/
2024-04-16 04:23:57 +0200 <c_wraith> yeah, GOSUB didn't have any idea of parameters. Just global variables. So, recursion wasn't very useful...
2024-04-16 04:24:59 +0200 <geekosaur> mm, right, I at one point had a BASIC preprocessor that did silly things like use an array ZZ as a parameter stack
2024-04-16 04:25:08 +0200sgarcia(sgarcia@swarm.znchost.com)
2024-04-16 04:25:26 +0200 <geekosaur> as well as adding control structures
2024-04-16 04:25:44 +0200Katarushisu1(~Katarushi@finc-20-b2-v4wan-169598-cust1799.vm7.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2024-04-16 04:26:00 +0200 <geekosaur> I ditched it when I got Turbo Pascal
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2024-04-16 06:06:40 +0200YuutaW(~YuutaW@mail.yuuta.moe)
2024-04-16 06:13:19 +0200michalz(~michalz@185.246.207.215)
2024-04-16 06:29:37 +0200madeleine-sydney(~madeleine@c-76-155-235-153.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2024-04-16 06:39:46 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2024-04-16 06:42:01 +0200 <jackdk> monochrom: TI Extended BASIC extended its `CALL` instruction to support calling into user-defined subprograms with arguments, including parameter passing
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2024-04-16 07:00:19 +0200kmein(~weechat@user/kmein)
2024-04-16 07:00:52 +0200 <mauke> "You need at least parameter passing to make recursion useful." <- not really. you do need per-call storage ("activation frame"?), though, especially for the return address
2024-04-16 07:01:31 +0200takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2024-04-16 07:01:38 +0200 <mauke> but parameter/return value passing can be emulated with globals
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2024-04-16 07:21:31 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-200-118.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-04-16 07:22:51 +0200peterbecich(~Thunderbi@47.229.123.186) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2024-04-16 07:25:16 +0200philopsos(~caecilius@user/philopsos)
2024-04-16 07:30:03 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 07:36:20 +0200_ht(~Thunderbi@28-52-174-82.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-16 07:38:46 +0200xdminsy(~xdminsy@117.147.70.203)
2024-04-16 07:40:55 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-16 07:46:56 +0200zetef(~quassel@5.2.182.99)
2024-04-16 07:51:57 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-04-16 07:53:37 +0200 <monochrom> Activation frames are the low-level reduce-everything-to-von-Neumann-model view. I take the high-level everything-serves-to-realize-lambda-caluclus view. It's parameter passing at that level.
2024-04-16 08:00:14 +0200mima(~mmh@aftr-62-216-211-171.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
2024-04-16 08:00:47 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-16 08:21:01 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 08:29:25 +0200julie_pilgrim(~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752)
2024-04-16 08:32:16 +0200danza(~francesco@ba-19-155-176.service.infuturo.it) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-04-16 08:34:12 +0200stiell_(~stiell@gateway/tor-sasl/stiell) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-04-16 08:37:03 +0200yeitrafferin(~user@2a04:4540:720f:7100:52ac:7ca7:64de:11a) (Quit: Leaving)
2024-04-16 08:37:26 +0200sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2024-04-16 08:40:28 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-16 08:42:42 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-16 08:43:16 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2024-04-16 08:51:18 +0200julie_pilgrim(~julie_pil@user/julie-pilgrim/x-1240752) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2024-04-16 08:53:12 +0200kraftwerk28(~kraftwerk@164.92.219.160) (Quit: *disconnects*)
2024-04-16 08:54:50 +0200ACuriousMoose(~ACuriousM@142.166.18.53) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-16 08:55:21 +0200zetef(~quassel@5.2.182.99) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2024-04-16 08:55:30 +0200ACuriousMoose(~ACuriousM@142.68.181.38)
2024-04-16 08:56:58 +0200acidjnk(~acidjnk@p200300d6e714dc20691c30fd92f896ed.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2024-04-16 09:05:15 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Remote host closed the connection)
2024-04-16 09:05:44 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2024-04-16 09:07:59 +0200jle`(~jle`@2603-8001-3b02-84d4-a77f-f741-f7ec-5267.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-16 09:08:48 +0200jle`(~jle`@2603:8001:3b02:84d4:9428:fb32:50c:b0cc)
2024-04-16 09:13:25 +0200jamesmartinez(uid6451@id-6451.helmsley.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2024-04-16 09:15:49 +0200zetef(~quassel@5.2.182.99)
2024-04-16 09:20:06 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-200-118.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 09:20:23 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-04-16 09:22:01 +0200rosco(~rosco@2001:240:242c:d62d:115:791f:75e3:1c81) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2024-04-16 09:22:45 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2024-04-16 09:29:47 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643) (Killed (NickServ (Forcing logout FinnElija -> finn_elija)))
2024-04-16 09:29:47 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@user/finn-elija/x-0085643)
2024-04-16 09:35:26 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@185.124.31.142)
2024-04-16 09:40:43 +0200sawilagar(~sawilagar@user/sawilagar)
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2024-04-16 09:51:15 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2024-04-16 09:53:14 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-200-118.176.4.pool.telefonica.de)
2024-04-16 09:57:10 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@dynamic-176-004-200-118.176.4.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 09:57:12 +0200Maeda(~Maeda@91-161-10-149.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024-04-16 09:57:27 +0200euleritian(~euleritia@ip4d16fc38.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2024-04-16 09:58:03 +0200Maeda(~Maeda@91-161-10-149.subs.proxad.net)
2024-04-16 09:58:04 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@185.124.31.142) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 09:58:23 +0200vglfr(~vglfr@158.red-81-45-80.staticip.rima-tde.net)
2024-04-16 09:59:57 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2024-04-16 10:00:23 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.37.230.221)
2024-04-16 10:00:46 +0200cheater(~Username@user/cheater)
2024-04-16 10:02:04 +0200danse-nr3(~danse-nr3@151.37.230.221) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2024-04-16 10:17:27 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d173-183-246-216.abhsia.telus.net)
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2024-04-16 10:23:59 +0200tromp(~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl)
2024-04-16 10:26:28 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-73-164-206-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2024-04-16 10:27:45 +0200kuribas(~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be)
2024-04-16 10:33:58 +0200wootehfoot(~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
2024-04-16 10:34:22 +0200econo_(uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)