| 2026-05-24 00:01:36 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 00:05:38 +0000 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2026-05-24 00:06:10 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds) |
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| 2026-05-24 00:59:52 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 01:01:51 +0000 | weary-traveler | (~user@user/user363627) user363627 |
| 2026-05-24 01:06:22 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 01:17:51 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 01:33:16 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 01:49:00 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 01:49:10 +0000 | <dibblego> | there is no traverse1_ |
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| 2026-05-24 02:46:46 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2026-05-24 03:11:18 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Client Quit) |
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| 2026-05-24 03:16:20 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-05-24 03:25:35 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 03:32:55 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine) |
| 2026-05-24 03:35:56 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-05-24 03:40:57 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 04:44:05 +0000 | olivial | (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) benjaminl |
| 2026-05-24 04:47:24 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 257 seconds) |
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| 2026-05-24 05:44:39 +0000 | wickedjargon | (~user@2605:8d80:5431:9939:9be8:7bc:f980:b3dd) wickedjargon |
| 2026-05-24 05:46:36 +0000 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
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| 2026-05-24 06:01:48 +0000 | ThePenguin | (~ThePengui@cust-95-80-28-221.csbnet.se) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 2026-05-24 06:24:37 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 06:31:26 +0000 | Beowulf | (florian@sleipnir.bandrate.org) (Quit: = "") |
| 2026-05-24 06:38:25 +0000 | Inline | (~noOne@ipservice-092-208-182-236.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Inline |
| 2026-05-24 06:38:55 +0000 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2026-05-24 06:45:16 +0000 | Beowulf | (florian@sleipnir.bandrate.org) |
| 2026-05-24 06:47:39 +0000 | haritz | (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-05-24 06:54:54 +0000 | tzh | (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 2026-05-24 07:01:02 +0000 | tt1231607019780 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 2026-05-24 07:02:18 +0000 | Vizious | (~bes@user/Vizious) Vizious |
| 2026-05-24 07:03:14 +0000 | tt1231607019780 | (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) tt1231 |
| 2026-05-24 07:09:24 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 07:50:30 +0000 | p3n | (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 2026-05-24 07:52:27 +0000 | p3n | (~p3n@217.198.124.246) p3n |
| 2026-05-24 07:56:44 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 08:28:28 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 08:28:47 +0000 | acidjnk_new | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e700e5702a377d17456d4d93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 2026-05-24 08:57:07 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2026-05-24 08:58:49 +0000 | acidjnk_new3 | (~acidjnk@p200300d6e700e58123079e5c04a78535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 2026-05-24 09:00:01 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) merijn |
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| 2026-05-24 09:03:14 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-05-24 09:05:07 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:07:09 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Excess Flood) |
| 2026-05-24 09:10:12 +0000 | Lord_of_Life | (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) Lord_of_Life |
| 2026-05-24 09:11:30 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 09:13:00 +0000 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) (Quit: tnt1) |
| 2026-05-24 09:14:58 +0000 | tnt1 | (~Thunderbi@user/tnt1) tnt1 |
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| 2026-05-24 09:22:15 +0000 | euphores | (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) euphores |
| 2026-05-24 09:22:25 +0000 | __monty__ | (~toonn@user/toonn) toonn |
| 2026-05-24 09:27:07 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 09:29:33 +0000 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:31:27 +0000 | <Noinia> | Hmm, I've encountered a somewhat weird issue around constraints and type families. I have some 'IsDrawable backend g' class, and I defined a 'Rendered backend' typefamily, with, in particular, Rendered (Svg model action) = [View model action] (here Svg is the backend; what View is is not very important). However, for whatever reason it seems GHC cannot resolve this 'Rendered (Svg model action)' def in a |
| 2026-05-24 09:31:33 +0000 | <Noinia> | typeclass instance; see Line 122 of https://github.com/noinia/hgeometry/blob/c12f1facde730b5daf03128f8ddb8b05db401df5/hgeometry/doc-fi… does anyone have an idea why this is the case? |
| 2026-05-24 09:32:18 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:33:15 +0000 | <Noinia> | (i.e. without the L122; GHC complains that it cannot deteremine that (Rendered (Svg model action)) has a Monoid constraint; that seems odd to me; since I just defined that 'Rendered (Svg model action) = [View model action])' above there (which thus has a Monoid constraint) |
| 2026-05-24 09:38:15 +0000 | emilym | (~Thunderbi@user/emilym) emilym |
| 2026-05-24 09:42:31 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | Noinia: that's odd. I tried to reproduce it very minimally but I couldn't -- I'm probably missing some essential component of your situation https://play.haskell.org/saved/nO5kBURh |
| 2026-05-24 09:42:42 +0000 | emilym | (~Thunderbi@user/emilym) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:42:54 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 09:44:34 +0000 | <Leary> | tomsmeding: tweaked: https://play.haskell.org/saved/RyQAXNsG |
| 2026-05-24 09:45:09 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | oh! I was almost there too, just missing the a on the RHS of Rendered (Svg a) |
| 2026-05-24 09:45:17 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | turns out that occurrence is important |
| 2026-05-24 09:46:53 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | is the problem here that GHC has to infer a quanfified constraint `forall a. Monoid (Rendered (Svg a))` here and somehow it decides not to reduce the type family in that case? |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:13 +0000 | <Noinia> | yes I also made a minimal example; but somehow didn't manage to reproduce it yet that way |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:15 +0000 | <int-e> | Works with 9.0 though (after enabling FlexibleContexts). Fun! |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:31 +0000 | <Noinia> | in my actual code I now got things to work by specifying that the argument of Svg has Kind Type |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:42 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:45 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | yes, this kind of "when exactly do I expand the type family" feels like a thing that SPJ and friends have been tinkering with recently |
| 2026-05-24 09:47:48 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@5.139.233.99) |
| 2026-05-24 09:48:01 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | :o |
| 2026-05-24 09:48:08 +0000 | <Noinia> | G |
| 2026-05-24 09:48:16 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | so you even need kind-polymorphism for this to faiul |
| 2026-05-24 09:48:18 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | *fail |
| 2026-05-24 09:48:36 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
| 2026-05-24 09:49:11 +0000 | <Noinia> | hmm yes apparently |
| 2026-05-24 09:49:18 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | Noinia: the `model` parameter in your IsDrawable instance declaration has any kind, but the `model` parameter in your `type instance Rendered` declaration is forced to kind Type due to being an argument to View |
| 2026-05-24 09:49:30 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | so GHC determines that your type instance is not general enough and doesn't use it |
| 2026-05-24 09:49:49 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | your explicit L122 type equality forces `model` to have kind Type (otherwise the equality doesn't kind-check) so all works |
| 2026-05-24 09:50:17 +0000 | <int-e> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/RyQAXNsG |
| 2026-05-24 09:50:22 +0000 | <int-e> | I hate this |
| 2026-05-24 09:50:51 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | that's the same link Leary pasted? |
| 2026-05-24 09:50:55 +0000 | <int-e> | (I marked this in the playground but of course it didn't make it into the X11 selection: instance IsDrawable (Svg (a :: *)) ) |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:01 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | oh haha |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:10 +0000 | <int-e> | Anyway, that makes it work. |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:21 +0000 | <int-e> | weirdly, adding :: * in the type family doesn't |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:21 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | that confirms my explanation |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:23 +0000 | <Noinia> | yes indeed; maybe in hindsight thatm akes sense |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:32 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: no, because it's the type Svg that is too general |
| 2026-05-24 09:51:50 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | so the family instance is not general enough for the class instance |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:02 +0000 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: Oh. Of course. |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:09 +0000 | AlexNoo | (~AlexNoo@5.139.233.99) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:11 +0000 | <Noinia> | (i.e. restricting the Svg type signature to kind Type) |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:21 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | Noinia: that seems like the correct solution, yes |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:38 +0000 | DetourNe- | (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) DetourNetworkUK |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:45 +0000 | <Noinia> | Thanks for the help! :) |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:50 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | fun, this is _very_ hard to spot if you're not aware of how the kind system works precisely |
| 2026-05-24 09:52:52 +0000 | DetourNetworkUK | (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 2026-05-24 09:54:54 +0000 | DetourNe- | DetourNetworkUK |
| 2026-05-24 09:56:50 +0000 | vanishingideal | (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) vanishingideal |
| 2026-05-24 09:58:42 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) merijn |
| 2026-05-24 10:05:05 +0000 | <tomsmeding> | fun: Claude Opus cannot explain why the little reproducer fails, even when given access to GHC to test stuff. It concludes that it's a known limitation of GHC. |
| 2026-05-24 10:05:18 +0000 | merijn | (~merijn@62.45.136.136) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 10:09:00 +0000 | AlexZenon | (~alzenon@5.139.233.99) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 2026-05-24 10:09:55 +0000 | Alex_delenda_est | (~al_test@5.139.233.99) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |