IRCBrowse

2021/04/25

2021-04-25 00:00:39 +0200 <aditya> ❯ paru -Qn mathjax
2021-04-25 00:00:41 +0200 <aditya> mathjax 3.1.4-1
2021-04-25 00:00:46 +0200 <aditya> I already have it installed
2021-04-25 00:00:50 +0200ddellaco_(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 00:00:51 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-25 00:00:57 +0200 <c_wraith> might be a path issue?
2021-04-25 00:02:04 +0200 <aditya> the warning is coming from ghcide, i think as i can see here : https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghcide-0.7.2.0/docs/src/Development.IDE.Spans.Common.html#hadd…
2021-04-25 00:03:31 +0200federd8(5d2e77a4@93-46-119-164.ip107.fastwebnet.it)
2021-04-25 00:04:19 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aszvauytsypzjzxi)
2021-04-25 00:05:36 +0200federd8(5d2e77a4@93-46-119-164.ip107.fastwebnet.it) (Client Quit)
2021-04-25 00:06:10 +0200bob_twinkles_bob_twinkles
2021-04-25 00:07:15 +0200 <lechner> Hi, is Yesod with Warp still the best web framework for Haskell, please?
2021-04-25 00:08:18 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 00:09:14 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ecwsnchldyvjqgyy) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-25 00:09:45 +0200 <aditya> seems like i found relevant issue: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/201
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2021-04-25 00:18:45 +0200nf(~n@monade.li) ("Fairfarren.")
2021-04-25 00:19:02 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2021-04-25 00:29:12 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
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2021-04-25 00:30:09 +0200JSharp(sid4580@wikia/JSharp)
2021-04-25 00:30:46 +0200 <lechner> actually, Happstack looks better
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2021-04-25 00:44:17 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143) (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients)
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2021-04-25 00:44:28 +0200seven_three(~user@pool-96-233-64-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-04-25 00:52:00 +0200 <seven_three> say I have a datatype like: `data foo = Foo String`. Is it possible to put a constraint on the constructor `Foo` so that it will only accept Strings of say length 2. I would like my constructor to give me some sort of guarantee about what type of values it was constructed with so I don't need to deal with erroneous special cases in all my functions.
2021-04-25 00:54:28 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 00:55:02 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aszvauytsypzjzxi) ()
2021-04-25 00:57:58 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-25 00:59:03 +0200 <jollygood2> seven_three, sort of.. don't export Foo constructor, and create your own constructor mkFoo :: Char -> Char -> Foo, or maybe mkChar :: [Char] -> Maybe Foo
2021-04-25 00:59:11 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 00:59:15 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-04-25 01:01:40 +0200 <seven_three> jollygood2: oh ok this will work in my case.
2021-04-25 01:02:22 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxnfubjbiyrpdold)
2021-04-25 01:04:13 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.113) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 01:04:43 +0200ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-54-201.sb.sd.cox.net)
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2021-04-25 01:05:05 +0200 <gnumonic> seven three: depending on how important it is that Foo have a certain length, you can use singletons to enforce the constraint (but it's somewhat complicated)
2021-04-25 01:08:30 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
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2021-04-25 01:11:12 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:5440:6bb8:f181:7832)
2021-04-25 01:11:42 +0200 <seven_three> gnumonic: it is very important. If there were ever a Foo with a string length other than 2 then the whole program explodes. Would a singleton enforce that a Foo with String length 3 could never exist?
2021-04-25 01:11:56 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-04-25 01:14:18 +0200pony(sid257727@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sasxvsyktodjxrrs)
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2021-04-25 01:14:54 +0200 <gnumonic> yeah, you bake the length of the list into the type system so that it's impossible for the program to compile at all if the condition can be violated. but it uses a lot of obscure type level magic.
2021-04-25 01:15:26 +0200 <gnumonic> i am trying to copy and paste a link to a guide but for some reason my clipboard is broken on fedora -_-
2021-04-25 01:16:38 +0200 <gnumonic> https://blog.jle.im/entry/fixed-length-vector-types-in-haskell.html hopefully i typed that right
2021-04-25 01:17:03 +0200 <seven_three> you typed it right. I will read this.
2021-04-25 01:20:10 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.100)
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2021-04-25 01:25:13 +0200elvishjerricco(sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco) ()
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2021-04-25 01:31:40 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-185-58-137.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) ()
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2021-04-25 01:35:04 +0200 <shapr> Is this a place I can ask for Haskell code review? I'm okay with what I have in https://github.com/shapr/takedouble/ but I'd like to hear any suggestions for improvement?
2021-04-25 01:35:33 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-04-25 01:56:40 +0200tzlil(~tzlil@unaffiliated/tzlil)
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2021-04-25 02:00:56 +0200 <wz1000> shapr: very clean and straightforward code. Only thing I could think of was using streaming + a bloom filter to operate in constant memory
2021-04-25 02:01:44 +0200 <shapr> wz1000: that's a good point, I originally used Control.Parallel to fire off a bunch of reads with hashing, but that didn't work so well
2021-04-25 02:02:06 +0200 <shapr> So the advantage of a streaming library would be that I could read until a file is found to *not* be a duplicate, right?
2021-04-25 02:02:27 +0200 <shapr> and then new files that might be duplicates would let me go back and pick up reading where I left off?
2021-04-25 02:02:49 +0200shaprthinks about that
2021-04-25 02:03:45 +0200 <shapr> ok, I'm sold. What's the most newbie friendly streaming library?
2021-04-25 02:03:51 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 02:05:08 +0200Guest42533(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xoqbygpcvszggkhq) ()
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2021-04-25 02:06:18 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 02:06:21 +0200 <wz1000> hmm, I'm not sure a bloom filter would work - it can tell you if you have duplicates, but if you want to know which are the duplicates it degenerates to O(n) memory again
2021-04-25 02:07:02 +0200graingert(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icmdnzdgthpbntzi)
2021-04-25 02:08:10 +0200 <wz1000> I like foldl, but I don't think a naive translation to streaming would buy you much
2021-04-25 02:08:26 +0200 <wz1000> since there is the sort in the end which would need to materialize all items
2021-04-25 02:08:30 +0200 <shapr> wz1000: count min sketch has a monoid instance
2021-04-25 02:08:57 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 02:09:12 +0200 <shapr> That or a counting bloom filter are the closest things I know to a streaming hashed data structure
2021-04-25 02:09:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:09:51 +0200 <shapr> Hm, good point about not being able to ask for the duplicates
2021-04-25 02:11:22 +0200chimera(~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
2021-04-25 02:14:40 +0200 <shachaf> Does constant memory actually matter?
2021-04-25 02:15:43 +0200 <shachaf> You probably won't be running this on more than, say, 10M files.
2021-04-25 02:16:23 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-25 02:17:34 +0200 <wz1000> shapr: you can use `listDirectory` instead of `getDirectoryContents` and filtering out "." and ".."
2021-04-25 02:18:06 +0200 <wz1000> a couple of `unsafeInterleaveIO`s might also be a tiny improvement in that function without the overhead of a full streaming library
2021-04-25 02:22:31 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b958148671e179a62db06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:23:06 +0200 <shapr> shachaf: I don't know, but now I have the urge to do heap profiling
2021-04-25 02:23:17 +0200 <shapr> wz1000: ah good idea!
2021-04-25 02:23:19 +0200elvishjerricco(~elvishjer@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco)
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2021-04-25 02:27:09 +0200AsL(~asl@91.207.86.95)
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2021-04-25 02:32:52 +0200AsL(~asl@91.207.86.95) ()
2021-04-25 02:34:35 +0200 <shapr> I wonder if a streaming library could work by holding a list of FilePath and hash at position? That would give you constant memory (per file) and still find duplicates?
2021-04-25 02:35:57 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-185-58-137.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) ()
2021-04-25 02:36:24 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@147.136.46.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:39:20 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:39:27 +0200zmijunkie1(~Adium@87.122.217.64)
2021-04-25 02:40:17 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-04-25 02:41:02 +0200 <shapr> Is there a comparison of the streaming libraries in Haskell?
2021-04-25 02:41:19 +0200bennofs_(~quassel@dynamic-077-013-095-012.77.13.pool.telefonica.de)
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2021-04-25 02:43:34 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
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2021-04-25 02:47:52 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:48:42 +0200 <zebrag> Starting from the "free monoid" adjunction. The counit is on the "monoid" side: it does have the information concerning the law of the monoid, it really can do the sum `[1,2,3]=1+2+3=6`. Now I want to consider the related "comonad". But I fail on "right counitality", where I get `[1,2,3]` mapped to `[6]`, where it should be the identity. I don't understand why: starting from an adjunction I should get the comonad, not
2021-04-25 02:48:43 +0200 <zebrag> sweat? What did I missed?
2021-04-25 02:49:25 +0200 <zebrag> The left counitality is okay, but the right counitality is really bothering me.
2021-04-25 02:49:37 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:50:52 +0200is_null(~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:51:37 +0200 <zebrag> Maybe I'll get the answer there: http://blog.higher-order.com/blog/2015/10/12/freedom-and-forgetfulness/
2021-04-25 02:51:41 +0200 <zebrag> maybe
2021-04-25 02:52:06 +0200 <shachaf> shapr: Of course a Haskell program will tend to use memory pretty inefficiently unless you're very careful.
2021-04-25 02:52:23 +0200 <zebrag> (not speaking scala won't help)
2021-04-25 02:52:25 +0200is_null(~jpic@pdpc/supporter/professional/is-null)
2021-04-25 02:52:29 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2021-04-25 02:53:17 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-25 02:56:27 +0200thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-25 02:59:08 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 02:59:26 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-25 03:00:42 +0200 <edwardk> zebrag: let's start with what the free monoid adjunction is. we have some kind of forgetful mapping U from the category of monoids with monoid homomorphisms as arrows to the category of sets where the arrows are just arbitrary functions. and a 'free' monoid' would be a functor F that is left adjoint to this. F -| U. that is to say every monoid homomorphism F a -> b is in one to one correspondence with every set homomorphism
2021-04-25 03:00:42 +0200 <edwardk> (function) from a -> U b. in haskell U b is boring it is just 'b'.
2021-04-25 03:00:44 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 03:01:17 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 03:01:24 +0200 <edwardk> now we can look at this isomorphism, and kind of prod at it to see what it must do.
2021-04-25 03:01:40 +0200 <zebrag> (hi)
2021-04-25 03:02:27 +0200 <edwardk> we know that monoid homomorphisms from F a -> b are in one to one correspondence with functions from a -> U b and we get to pick a and b. so what if we pick b = F a and just see where the identity arrow on "F a" goes?
2021-04-25 03:03:08 +0200paddymahoney(~paddymaho@cpe9050ca207f83-cm9050ca207f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2021-04-25 03:03:28 +0200 <edwardk> we then get an arrow a -> U (F a)
2021-04-25 03:03:40 +0200 <edwardk> this is the 'unit' of the adjunction or of the monad that comes from the adjunction.
2021-04-25 03:03:49 +0200 <zebrag> yes
2021-04-25 03:03:49 +0200 <edwardk> UF here is basically [] in haskell
2021-04-25 03:04:00 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-25 03:04:05 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-25 03:04:27 +0200CelestiaIsTheWay(~sepples@sepples.xyz)
2021-04-25 03:04:39 +0200 <edwardk> on the other hand we can look at the isomorphism the other way and pick a = U b. now we get F (U b) -> b as the counit of the adjunction or extract of the comonad.
2021-04-25 03:05:02 +0200 <zebrag> ok
2021-04-25 03:05:22 +0200 <edwardk> here we get a monad on Set (or Hask) and a comonad in the category of monoids
2021-04-25 03:05:46 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:06:08 +0200 <zebrag> If I compose the lifted counit after the comultiplication, I must get the identity
2021-04-25 03:06:37 +0200 <zebrag> but the lifted counit is executing the computation in [1,2,3]
2021-04-25 03:06:53 +0200 <zebrag> returning 6
2021-04-25 03:07:17 +0200tsaka_(~torstein@athedsl-4519432.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:07:42 +0200mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23)
2021-04-25 03:07:50 +0200 <zebrag> lifted counit is executing the computation in [[1,2,3]]*
2021-04-25 03:08:13 +0200malumore_(~malumore@151.62.115.131)
2021-04-25 03:08:27 +0200 <zebrag> the right counitality law say I should manage to get [1,2,3]
2021-04-25 03:08:31 +0200ddellac__(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:09:26 +0200 <edwardk> let's see. the duplicate/comultiplication for the comonad is basically fmaps unit over F to turn FU -> F[UF]U
2021-04-25 03:10:30 +0200 <zebrag> (iiuc, on the monoid side, we not only have the elements, but also the law which must be used on them, attached to them)
2021-04-25 03:10:31 +0200 <edwardk> your 'right counitality law' is the fmap extract . duplicate = id?
2021-04-25 03:10:49 +0200 <zebrag> thinking hard...
2021-04-25 03:10:59 +0200 <zebrag> yes
2021-04-25 03:11:00 +0200 <edwardk> as opposed to extract . duplicate = id on the left?
2021-04-25 03:11:08 +0200 <zebrag> correct
2021-04-25 03:11:24 +0200whataday(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 03:11:26 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.120.175) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:11:42 +0200 <zebrag> okay, you gave me the translation of the equation in haskell, good point
2021-04-25 03:12:32 +0200whataday(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-04-25 03:12:50 +0200 <edwardk> except remember, here extract and duplicate are in the category of monoids. so they must each be monoid homomorphisms
2021-04-25 03:13:02 +0200 <zebrag> correct
2021-04-25 03:13:29 +0200 <zebrag> so extract really knows about the natural number law
2021-04-25 03:13:36 +0200 <zebrag> 1 + 2 = 3
2021-04-25 03:13:50 +0200 <edwardk> natural number law being the particular monoid you want to reduce with?
2021-04-25 03:13:57 +0200 <zebrag> yes
2021-04-25 03:14:40 +0200 <zebrag> duplicate duplicate must go to duplicate
2021-04-25 03:14:41 +0200 <edwardk> extract :: Monoid a => [a] -> a -- gets to be 'fold' basically. knowing the target monoid.
2021-04-25 03:14:48 +0200 <edwardk> U here is basically invisible in haskell
2021-04-25 03:14:59 +0200 <edwardk> i can put it in for clarity if needs must
2021-04-25 03:15:08 +0200 <zebrag> no it ok
2021-04-25 03:16:47 +0200 <zebrag> it's*
2021-04-25 03:16:49 +0200 <edwardk> and duplicate takes FU -> FUFU by fmapping the 'pure' over the list you gave. dup :: [a] -> [[a]] -- is also a monoid homomorphism, but which takes [1,2,3] -> [[1],[2],[3]] iirc
2021-04-25 03:17:01 +0200 <edwardk> its been a while since i worked this through in detail.
2021-04-25 03:17:28 +0200 <zebrag> hehe
2021-04-25 03:17:50 +0200 <edwardk> and yes, it sounds like some anime villainess going on about fufufufu...
2021-04-25 03:18:03 +0200 <zebrag> I think I got where I've made a mistake: in the duplicate
2021-04-25 03:18:17 +0200 <edwardk> great
2021-04-25 03:18:23 +0200 <edwardk> lemme know if you're still stuck
2021-04-25 03:18:31 +0200 <zebrag> nice, thaks
2021-04-25 03:19:15 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-25 03:19:41 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:19:56 +0200 <zebrag> Really helpful, great
2021-04-25 03:22:51 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-04-25 03:24:47 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:27:23 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-185-58-137.range86-185.btcentralplus.com)
2021-04-25 03:27:41 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:27:54 +0200 <shachaf> You have a function eta : a -> [a] and a a monoid homomorphism eps : [m] -> m, and the two triangle laws are that eps . F eta = id and U eps . eta = id
2021-04-25 03:28:22 +0200 <shachaf> That is, fold (map (:[]) xs) = xs, and fold [x] = x
2021-04-25 03:28:55 +0200 <shachaf> You can make join and duplicate out of those.
2021-04-25 03:29:21 +0200 <shachaf> In particular, join out of eps, and duplicate out of eta. Just by fmapping.
2021-04-25 03:29:50 +0200 <zebrag> okay
2021-04-25 03:31:57 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:32:36 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2021-04-25 03:33:06 +0200 <shachaf> Ah, now I see the original question.
2021-04-25 03:33:16 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-25 03:33:18 +0200 <shachaf> I think you're right, and you just had the wrong duplicate.
2021-04-25 03:33:28 +0200 <zebrag> I think my problem was I thought `duplicate [1,2,3]` was `[[1,2,3]]`, when it seems it really is `[[1],[2],[3]]`, and consequently everything was failing
2021-04-25 03:33:56 +0200 <shachaf> Yes, that's right.
2021-04-25 03:34:58 +0200 <shachaf> This notation makes a lot of things almost implicit. But when you have something like "Fη" you need to remember that the F is an fmap.
2021-04-25 03:35:34 +0200 <shachaf> Whereas when you have "ηU" the U is not an fmap, and is completely implicit in Haskell.
2021-04-25 03:37:43 +0200 <zebrag> One is lifted the other isn't.
2021-04-25 03:38:06 +0200 <zebrag> definition of duplicate in terms of fmap pure?
2021-04-25 03:38:25 +0200 <shachaf> duplicate = fmap pure
2021-04-25 03:38:31 +0200 <zebrag> hehe
2021-04-25 03:39:17 +0200 <shachaf> If the goal is to get a better feel for adjunctions, it might be better to take one where the right adjoint isn't quite so forgetful.
2021-04-25 03:39:59 +0200 <zebrag> yes, but no
2021-04-25 03:40:40 +0200 <zebrag> as comonad goes, this might not be the best one
2021-04-25 03:40:58 +0200 <zebrag> anyway, thanks a lot
2021-04-25 03:41:33 +0200 <shachaf> The classic one, in Haskell, is (e,) -| (e->), of course.
2021-04-25 03:41:37 +0200honigkuchen(~honigkuch@ip5b429953.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 03:41:45 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-25 03:41:54 +0200 <shachaf> You get a good monad and a good comonad and everything is explicit.
2021-04-25 03:42:08 +0200 <edwardk> another fun haskell one is (_ -> r) -| (_ -> r) -- which is frustrating until suddenly it is not.
2021-04-25 03:42:23 +0200ski. o O ( ⌜ε F ∘ F η = id⌝ and ⌜id = U ε ∘ η U⌝ )
2021-04-25 03:42:50 +0200 <zebrag> I'll sure look into it
2021-04-25 03:43:30 +0200 <shachaf> Yes, of course what ski said is the real deal law.
2021-04-25 03:44:04 +0200 <ski> looking into adjunctions for products and coproducts (or limits and colimits, in general) might also be useful
2021-04-25 03:44:19 +0200 <zebrag> I really was reading the Paolo Perrone tutorial on categories, and the free monoid comonad was nagging me
2021-04-25 03:44:57 +0200 <shachaf> Yes, the example ski mentioned is also good.
2021-04-25 03:44:58 +0200 <ski> (of course, i don't write those laws quite like that, in private notes)
2021-04-25 03:45:55 +0200 <shachaf> You have the "diagonal" functor Δ : C -> CxC. It has a left and a right adjoint. Can you figure out what they are?
2021-04-25 03:45:56 +0200skiwas idly considering the "reverse" adjunction isomorphism, for products, the other day
2021-04-25 03:46:11 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:46:17 +0200 <shachaf> ski: How do you write them in private notes?
2021-04-25 03:46:22 +0200 <zebrag> Elementary examples of adjoint functor theorem were really enlightening.
2021-04-25 03:47:04 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5345:1000:6c4e:76aa:9183:d81d) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:47:53 +0200 <ski> (if a product is the "greatest" object "before" two given objects .. then the diagonal of an object is the "least" pair of objects "after" the given objects)
2021-04-25 03:49:02 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5378:d500:70a3:57b2:577c:e365)
2021-04-25 03:50:14 +0200 <zebrag> before/after?
2021-04-25 03:50:28 +0200 <zebrag> oh yes
2021-04-25 03:50:39 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-25 03:50:44 +0200 <zebrag> nice
2021-04-25 03:51:03 +0200 <ski> (er, s/the given objects/the given object/)
2021-04-25 03:51:11 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-185-58-137.range86-185.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:51:37 +0200 <zebrag> this sort of vernacular is very useful
2021-04-25 03:52:38 +0200 <zebrag> and you really can say it to yourself, when the formula above can't easily be pronounced
2021-04-25 03:53:35 +0200 <ski> reading out "adjunctiony formulae" out aloud, in terms of "greatest", and "least", is great :)
2021-04-25 03:54:37 +0200 <zebrag> If you have a list of such "out aloud" sentences, feel free to post the link ;)
2021-04-25 03:55:12 +0200 <zebrag> It is so helpful to be able to really say things
2021-04-25 03:56:27 +0200 <ski> consider e.g. expressing the order ⌜n⌝ of an element ⌜g⌝, in a group :
2021-04-25 03:56:34 +0200 <ski> ℴ g ∣ n
2021-04-25 03:56:38 +0200 <ski> ⇔ gⁿ = 1
2021-04-25 03:56:59 +0200hypercube(~hypercube@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 03:58:04 +0200 <ski> the order ⌜ℴ g⌝ of an element ⌜g⌝ in a group is the least (in the divisibility ordering) integer ⌜n⌝, such that the ⌜n⌝-fold product of ⌜g⌝ (⌜g⌝ raised to the power of ⌜n⌝) is the neutral element
2021-04-25 03:59:07 +0200 <ski> (that is how i read such a statement. and i'm on the lookout for such "adjunctiony" ways of phrasing characterizations)
2021-04-25 03:59:08 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 03:59:26 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-25 03:59:43 +0200 <zebrag> I must call it a day: I'll read the logs
2021-04-25 03:59:47 +0200 <jollygood2> is ghc with improved records out yet?
2021-04-25 04:00:07 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-79-166.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Client Quit)
2021-04-25 04:00:37 +0200Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 04:01:05 +0200 <ski> note that the set of all ⌜n⌝s such that ⌜ℴ g ∣ n⌝ is an upper set (it's closed under adding multiples of elements already in the set). therefore, for there to be an equivalence here (for all ⌜n⌝), ⌜gⁿ = 1⌝ must also be increasing / order-preserving / monotone / upper, in ⌜n⌝ .. and indeed it is
2021-04-25 04:02:37 +0200 <ski> and because it is (but isn't, if we consider the usual additive ordering ⌜≤⌝ for ⌜n⌝), that is evidence that the divisibility ordering here is the correct ordering to consider
2021-04-25 04:03:05 +0200rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tixhxbhwulglbevd)
2021-04-25 04:04:32 +0200kilolympus(~kilolympu@5.151.5.180) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-04-25 04:05:46 +0200 <ski> you may contrast this with the situation for nilpotency index/degree ⌜n⌝ of an element ⌜a⌝ in a ring. in this case, if ⌜aⁿ = 0⌝ holds for some ⌜n⌝, then it also holds for all additively / arithmetically greater, ⌜≤⌝, (as opposed to multiplicatively / geometrically, iow considering the divisibility ordering ⌜∣⌝) ⌜n⌝
2021-04-25 04:06:34 +0200 <ski> (it doesn't hold for the multiplicative ordering, specifically for ⌜n = 0⌝, unless we're in the trivial ring, with ⌜1 = 0⌝)
2021-04-25 04:07:12 +0200Guest6509(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 04:08:11 +0200 <ski> (is there a standard notation for nilpotency index/degree ? .. i'll write ⌜𝓃 a⌝, i guess)
2021-04-25 04:08:23 +0200 <ski> 𝓃 a ≤ n
2021-04-25 04:08:32 +0200 <ski> ⇔ aⁿ = 0
2021-04-25 04:08:41 +0200 <ski> is thus the correct statement, here
2021-04-25 04:13:17 +0200 <ski> (one could wonder if one could turn the equality into an inequality, with the goal of making these proper adjunctions, rather than just "adjunctiony", by which i mean a statement of the general form ⌜∀ x. c ≤ x ⇔ P x⌝ expressing that ⌜c⌝ is the least ⌜x⌝ satisfying ⌜P x⌝, for some preorder ⌜≤⌝, and inhabited upper ⌜P⌝. compare with ⌜∀ x. c = x ⇔ P x⌝ expressing that
2021-04-25 04:13:23 +0200 <ski> ⌜c⌝ is the unique ⌜x⌝ satisfying ⌜P x⌝)
2021-04-25 04:13:35 +0200 <ski> anyway ..
2021-04-25 04:13:46 +0200 <ski> ⌜⌞ε⌟ (F A)⌝ ∘ ⌜F (⌞η⌟ A)⌝ = ⌜F A⌝
2021-04-25 04:13:55 +0200 <ski> ⌜U M⌝ = ⌜U (⌞ε⌟ M)⌝ ∘ ⌜⌞η⌟ (U M)⌝
2021-04-25 04:14:16 +0200 <ski> or, more pointlessly
2021-04-25 04:14:26 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-25 04:14:27 +0200 <ski> ⌜⌞ε⌟ ∘ F⌝ ∘ ⌜F ∘ ⌞η⌟⌝ = ⌜F⌝
2021-04-25 04:14:33 +0200 <ski> ⌜U⌝ = ⌜U ∘ ⌞ε⌟⌝ ∘ ⌜⌞η⌟ ∘ U⌝
2021-04-25 04:14:35 +0200 <ski> shachaf ^
2021-04-25 04:15:28 +0200shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-132-95.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
2021-04-25 04:16:36 +0200 <ski> (one composition here is "vertical", the other is "horizontal" .. i've never been able to memorize which means which, of those terms)
2021-04-25 04:16:46 +0200 <shachaf> Oh, that was for me?
2021-04-25 04:16:55 +0200 <ski> last couple of lines, yes
2021-04-25 04:17:20 +0200 <shachaf> ski: I could never remember which was which until I realized those terms come from attaching string diagrams to each other horizontally and vertically.
2021-04-25 04:17:36 +0200 <shachaf> Or at least I assume they do. That's how I remember it, anyway.
2021-04-25 04:18:41 +0200 <ski> string diagrams, as in the catsters <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USYRDDZ9yEc&list=PLlGXNwjYhXYxKVa67r0pKuYufECy713bv&index=36>, i presume ?
2021-04-25 04:18:55 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 04:19:10 +0200 <shachaf> Yes, that style of string diagram.
2021-04-25 04:19:38 +0200 <ski> (rewatching that, to check in which way they orient stuff)
2021-04-25 04:19:50 +0200 <shachaf> Oh, I don't remember which way they orient things either.
2021-04-25 04:20:06 +0200 <shachaf> The main thing I try to do is to make my string diagrams line up with my indx notation.
2021-04-25 04:20:29 +0200 <ski> i mean, the "vertical" vs. "horizontal", would depend on whether they tend to write the arrows left-right or up-down
2021-04-25 04:20:51 +0200 <shachaf> Oh, sure, that much I do remember.
2021-04-25 04:21:01 +0200 <shachaf> Anyway, since I write "T_a^b" for a thing with input a and output b, I draw the outputs at the top and the inputs at the bottom.
2021-04-25 04:21:35 +0200 <ski> (which is one reason why i don't really like such terminology. and ditto for "left/right adjoint", "left/right inverse", &c.)
2021-04-25 04:21:51 +0200 <shachaf> Yes. Probably the Galois connection terms "lower/upper adjoint" are better.
2021-04-25 04:22:15 +0200 <shachaf> Hmm, I mean, because of the preorder, not because of low/high as in down/up.
2021-04-25 04:22:50 +0200 <ski> which would be which, in that terminology ?
2021-04-25 04:23:41 +0200 <shachaf> The left adjoint would be called lower.
2021-04-25 04:24:03 +0200 <shachaf> Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galois_connection#Definitions
2021-04-25 04:24:04 +0200 <ski> if ⌜F⌝ goes to ⌜𝒞⌝ from ⌜𝒟⌝, and ⌜U⌝ goes to ⌜𝒟⌝ from ⌜𝒞⌝, which is upper and which is lower ?
2021-04-25 04:24:11 +0200 <ski> mhm
2021-04-25 04:24:43 +0200 <shachaf> Am I supposed to figure out which is which because you called one of them U?
2021-04-25 04:24:47 +0200 <ski> i guess they're focusing on the target / codomain side of the functors
2021-04-25 04:25:19 +0200 <ski> oh, sorry, i should've said that ⌜F⌝ would traditionally be called the left adjoint of ⌜U⌝
2021-04-25 04:25:33 +0200 <shachaf> Then F would be called the lower adjoint.
2021-04-25 04:25:43 +0200 <ski> right, ok
2021-04-25 04:25:56 +0200 <shachaf> Right, focusing on the codomain side, as you said.
2021-04-25 04:26:59 +0200 <ski> (which is rather easy to reach for, with a pointful formulation)
2021-04-25 04:28:18 +0200 <ski> hm, i suppose with antitone Galois connections, you'd get two flavors of them
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2021-04-25 05:59:44 +0200 <zzz> i am having trouble using a package due to unresolved dependencies. the package is diagrams and the problematic dependency is base. how do we solve this?
2021-04-25 06:04:16 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-04-25 06:05:07 +0200erisco(~erisco@d24-57-249-233.home.cgocable.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-04-25 06:09:15 +0200 <zzz> https://paste.jrvieira.com/1619323742808
2021-04-25 06:13:41 +0200 <zzz> i tried removing the base version under build-depends on my .cabal file
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2021-04-25 06:45:48 +0200 <jollygood2> zzz, this is the least active time for irc. if you don't get help try again in 8 or so hours
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2021-04-25 06:50:02 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> the base you have is tied to the ghc version you have, if a package has a conflict with base you need a different version of ghc to use it
2021-04-25 06:51:19 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> https://wiki.haskell.org/Base_package has a table of the relation
2021-04-25 06:51:41 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 06:52:09 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> conflict: diagrams-svg => base>=4.7 && <4.14 is the part of your log that describes the base version needed
2021-04-25 06:53:06 +0200Ishutin_(~ishutin@84-236-1-102.pool.digikabel.hu)
2021-04-25 06:53:51 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
2021-04-25 06:54:11 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> I think there's a cabal flag like --allow-newer you could try though
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2021-04-25 07:19:19 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 07:21:01 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-25 07:29:30 +0200puke(~vroom@217.138.252.196) (Quit: puke)
2021-04-25 07:36:33 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-25 07:38:05 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.47)
2021-04-25 07:42:12 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.47) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 07:43:31 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 07:43:39 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com)
2021-04-25 07:46:34 +0200 <zzz> i had to install ghc 8.8.4. thanks anyway
2021-04-25 07:48:23 +0200Sarcarean(4582bfd4@h69-130-191-212.bendor.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 07:55:04 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 07:56:13 +0200 <lechner> Hi, is there a way to tell how many packages (disregarding different versions) are available on Hackage, please? Thanks!
2021-04-25 07:57:37 +0200CMCDragonkai2(~Thunderbi@60-242-118-130.tpgi.com.au)
2021-04-25 08:02:18 +0200 <shachaf> You can look at https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/ and count.
2021-04-25 08:03:09 +0200CMCDragonkai2(~Thunderbi@60-242-118-130.tpgi.com.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 08:03:11 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 08:05:08 +0200 <davean> lechner: like 15k?
2021-04-25 08:05:17 +0200coeus(~coeus@p200300d0274dc6000de71f4ee41c5fb3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-04-25 08:21:46 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 08:22:15 +0200coeus(~coeus@p200300d027300600a7f01744b59f4d58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-25 08:24:40 +0200sword865(uid208942@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bsntjtcyytnmmdmx)
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2021-04-25 08:25:39 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 08:29:41 +0200dansho(~dansho@ec2-52-198-118-239.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-04-25 08:31:51 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 08:32:01 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 08:33:17 +0200 <[exa]> lechner: you have a package list in the cabal cache, see ~/.cabal/packages/hackage.haskell.org/01-index.tar
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2021-04-25 12:09:04 +0200mmfood(~mmfood@45.91.21.59)
2021-04-25 12:10:41 +0200jgt(~jgt@78.162.43.217)
2021-04-25 12:11:55 +0200dansho(~dansho@ec2-52-198-118-239.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-25 12:12:45 +0200shad0w_(a0ca2598@160.202.37.152)
2021-04-25 12:21:12 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-25 12:22:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-04-25 12:25:11 +0200dpl_(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net)
2021-04-25 12:26:41 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177)
2021-04-25 12:30:34 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
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2021-04-25 12:32:59 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com)
2021-04-25 12:34:09 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> kiwi@mvp-nixos ~ []$ nix shell nixpkgs#jq nixpkgs#fzf nixpkgs#peco -c bash -c "nix-instantiate --eval --json -E 'builtins.attrNames (import <nixpkgs> {}).haskellPackages' | jq '.[]' -r|wc -l"
2021-04-25 12:34:10 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> 16009
2021-04-25 12:35:58 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> how many are broken on the other hand...
2021-04-25 12:36:52 +0200bennofs_(~quassel@dynamic-077-013-095-012.77.13.pool.telefonica.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 12:36:56 +0200lemmih(~lemmih@2406:3003:2072:44:b750:bcd2:3182:6116) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 12:37:13 +0200bennofs_(~quassel@dynamic-077-013-095-012.77.13.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-04-25 12:37:14 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 12:39:14 +0200chimera(~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
2021-04-25 12:40:34 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> nix-env -f channel:nixos-unstable -qaP -A haskellPackages|wc -l
2021-04-25 12:40:36 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> 15992
2021-04-25 12:41:25 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://dpaste.com/A7WXCR9CY here's that for last 5 nixos releases
2021-04-25 12:41:28 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i9wzo9a9ov2el7.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-04-25 12:42:30 +0200oleks_(~oleks@188.166.34.97) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-25 12:42:44 +0200oleks(~oleks@188.166.34.97)
2021-04-25 12:43:47 +0200HannaM(~quassel@p54849510.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-25 12:45:16 +0200 <kuribas> @hoogle (a -> a -> a) -> Maybe a -> Maybe a -> a
2021-04-25 12:45:17 +0200 <lambdabot> Data.Functor.Adjunction zapWithAdjunction :: Adjunction f u => (a -> b -> c) -> u a -> f b -> c
2021-04-25 12:45:17 +0200 <lambdabot> Util foldMap2 :: (Foldable t, Applicative t, Monoid z) => (a -> b -> z) -> t a -> t b -> z
2021-04-25 12:45:17 +0200 <lambdabot> Linear.Vector liftU2 :: Additive f => (a -> a -> a) -> f a -> f a -> f a
2021-04-25 12:45:27 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 12:48:36 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233)
2021-04-25 12:50:07 +0200 <ADG1089> any ideas how can i optimize this function for speed? https://bpa.st/7BXQ
2021-04-25 12:50:23 +0200 <ADG1089> should i use bang patterns on r & r'?
2021-04-25 12:50:36 +0200 <ADG1089> and case statement on q to force evaluation?
2021-04-25 12:50:52 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 12:53:52 +0200dpl_(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-25 12:56:44 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-04-25 12:57:04 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> hello guys
2021-04-25 12:57:06 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 12:57:09 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Anyone here?
2021-04-25 12:57:27 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I'm really desperate with a haskell program :(
2021-04-25 12:57:41 +0200philderbeast(~textual@bras-base-vldvpq5901w-grc-06-184-144-244-252.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-04-25 12:57:45 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177)
2021-04-25 12:58:02 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 12:58:22 +0200Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-04-25 12:58:23 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-25 12:58:49 +0200mmfood_2(~mmfood@185.176.246.69)
2021-04-25 12:59:22 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Pleaseee
2021-04-25 13:00:06 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> My problem is i have a tuple and a list, and i want to search the first element in the tuple in the list and replace it with the second
2021-04-25 13:00:35 +0200shad0w_(a0ca2598@160.202.37.152) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 13:01:10 +0200aVikingTrex(~aVikingTr@2001:8003:340d:d00:b2de:b98:7a93:b0ea)
2021-04-25 13:01:15 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 13:01:18 +0200mmfood_1(~mmfood@45.91.21.59) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 13:02:24 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-04-25 13:04:55 +0200tlaxkit(~konversat@185.228.155.197)
2021-04-25 13:05:12 +0200 <ADG1089> > {f _ _ [] = [];f t@(a, _) b (x:xs)|a==x=b:xs'|True=x:xs' where xs' = f t b xs}
2021-04-25 13:05:14 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘{’
2021-04-25 13:05:36 +0200 <ADG1089> > let {f _ _ [] = [];f t@(a, _) b (x:xs)|a==x=b:xs'|True=x:xs' where xs' = f t b xs}
2021-04-25 13:05:38 +0200 <lambdabot> <no location info>: error:
2021-04-25 13:05:38 +0200 <lambdabot> not an expression: ‘let {f _ _ [] = [];f t@(a, _) b (x:xs)|a==x=b:xs'|Tr...
2021-04-25 13:06:26 +0200 <ADG1089> > let {f _ _ [] = [];f t@(a, _) b (x:xs)|a==x=b:xs'|True=x:xs' where xs' = f t b xs} in f (2,3) 5 [1..10]
2021-04-25 13:06:28 +0200 <lambdabot> [1,5,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
2021-04-25 13:06:48 +0200 <ADG1089> HelplessProgramm: ^
2021-04-25 13:07:50 +0200gaff(~user@49.207.205.205)
2021-04-25 13:08:45 +0200 <gaff> :t forAll (listOf1 arbitrary) $ \xs -> last (g xs) == maximum xs -- gives Property
2021-04-25 13:08:46 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-04-25 13:08:46 +0200 <lambdabot> • No instance for (FromExpr [()]) arising from a use of ‘g’
2021-04-25 13:08:46 +0200 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘last’, namely ‘(g xs)’
2021-04-25 13:09:29 +0200 <gaff> :t forAll (listOf1 arbitrary) $ \xs -> classify (length xs == 0) "empty" $ last (g xs) == maximum xs -- also gives Property
2021-04-25 13:09:31 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2021-04-25 13:09:31 +0200 <lambdabot> Variable not in scope: classify :: Bool -> [Char] -> Bool -> prop0
2021-04-25 13:09:52 +0200 <gaff> this stuff is from quick check
2021-04-25 13:10:10 +0200 <gaff> how could both these expressions have same type?
2021-04-25 13:10:50 +0200 <gaff> ignore the lamdabot for now
2021-04-25 13:11:36 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 13:11:55 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-25 13:12:55 +0200 <gaff> appreciate any help
2021-04-25 13:15:10 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 13:16:47 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 13:17:12 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-25 13:17:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 13:18:23 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@freenet/developer/infinity0) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-04-25 13:22:52 +0200 <nut> Is it possible to evaluate part of an expression, similar to C-x C-e in emacs?
2021-04-25 13:24:16 +0200infinity0(~infinity0@freenet/developer/infinity0)
2021-04-25 13:24:58 +0200tlaxkit(~konversat@185.228.155.197) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 13:25:57 +0200petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp)
2021-04-25 13:28:57 +0200 <kuribas> ADG1089: to begin, add type signatures.
2021-04-25 13:29:14 +0200 <kuribas> ADG1089: and monomorphic preferably. Otherwise specialize it.
2021-04-25 13:35:02 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b958148671e179a62db06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-25 13:35:49 +0200tlaxkit(~konversat@185.228.155.197)
2021-04-25 13:36:51 +0200 <ADG1089> kuribas: last one worked tho
2021-04-25 13:38:06 +0200cheater1(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (Quit: (BitchX) It's game over, man! game over!)
2021-04-25 13:38:11 +0200 <ADG1089> kuribas: but I would say `f :: Sel1 t, Foldable t1, Eq a => t -> t1 a -> a -> t1 a
2021-04-25 13:38:32 +0200cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater)
2021-04-25 13:38:36 +0200 <ADG1089> in this case `f :: (Int, b) -> [Int] -> Int -> [Int]`
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2021-04-25 15:41:53 +0200sbaranidharan(3125dbbe@49.37.219.190) ()
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2021-04-25 15:47:56 +0200MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-04-25 15:48:12 +0200MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru)
2021-04-25 15:48:54 +0200dpl_(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net)
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2021-04-25 15:52:37 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
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2021-04-25 15:54:02 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233)
2021-04-25 15:54:14 +0200 <ADG1089> any tips to code golf this: https://bpa.st/FWBQ ?
2021-04-25 15:56:14 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-25 15:57:24 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 15:57:26 +0200danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
2021-04-25 15:57:45 +0200berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hqhnddntnfwsknwk) (Quit: authenticating)
2021-04-25 15:58:00 +0200berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-voiztqshsnrivrqj)
2021-04-25 15:58:03 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82be79e00917924033d9cda5f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 15:58:14 +0200berberman[T]berberman___
2021-04-25 15:58:20 +0200berberman___berberman__
2021-04-25 15:59:36 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233)
2021-04-25 16:01:05 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:01:14 +0200 <[exa]> ADG1089: what does it do?
2021-04-25 16:01:27 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-25 16:02:15 +0200 <ADG1089> [exa]: calculate sum of maximum idempotent element from each of the rings Z/nZ for 1<=n<=lim
2021-04-25 16:03:00 +0200 <ADG1089> although an inefficient brute force implementation would look like print $ sum [last [y|y<-[1..x-1],mod(y*y)x==y],x<-[2..lim]]
2021-04-25 16:03:23 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-57.static.apol.com.tw) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+cygwin2 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-25 16:03:28 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118)
2021-04-25 16:06:38 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@c-73-21-82-200.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 16:07:15 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 16:07:52 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:11:39 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:12:04 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-04-25 16:14:24 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143)
2021-04-25 16:15:26 +0200 <[exa]> ADG1089: that doesn't seem very compressible tbh, unless you e.g. find out how to squash the algebraic code with k, k', p and q (idea: zipwith? applicative?)
2021-04-25 16:20:49 +0200dsrt^(dsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
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2021-04-25 16:24:37 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 16:25:51 +0200jao(~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao)
2021-04-25 16:26:10 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@147.136.46.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2021-04-25 16:37:13 +0200malumore__(~malumore@151.62.115.131)
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2021-04-25 16:40:29 +0200tlgl^nix(~damien@S0106008ef25e98fb.su.shawcable.net)
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2021-04-25 16:47:52 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 16:48:02 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.115.131)
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2021-04-25 16:49:13 +0200gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 16:51:00 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:4e27:9f44:a2d5:c10c)
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2021-04-25 16:54:01 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-04-25 16:54:08 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Hello
2021-04-25 16:54:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Someone there?
2021-04-25 16:54:28 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have a problem i dont know how to solve
2021-04-25 16:54:29 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-25 16:54:58 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have a array of strings
2021-04-25 16:55:06 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:55:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> And an array of tuples like (key, value)
2021-04-25 16:55:23 +0200nyd(~nyd@unaffiliated/elysian) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:55:48 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have to replace all coincidences of "key" in the array of strings and replace it with "value"
2021-04-25 16:56:02 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Can someone help plox :(
2021-04-25 16:56:32 +0200zva(~zava@ip5f5bdf0f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-04-25 16:57:17 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-25 16:57:25 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 16:58:18 +0200 <ski> what have you tried, so far ?
2021-04-25 16:58:41 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I tried to do it recursively
2021-04-25 16:58:44 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> But im kinda new
2021-04-25 16:58:47 +0200 <ski> @where paste
2021-04-25 16:58:48 +0200 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2021-04-25 16:59:50 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I did a helper function
2021-04-25 16:59:54 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> But it doesnt help
2021-04-25 16:59:58 +0200Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-8d26-87d2-93d2-7b51.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-25 17:00:01 +0200lawr3nce(~lawr3nce@gateway/tor-sasl/lawr3nce)
2021-04-25 17:00:02 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I dont think im approaching it correctly
2021-04-25 17:00:10 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-25 17:00:10 +0200 <ski> i think we need to see some concrete code
2021-04-25 17:00:12 +0200 <[exa]> HelplessProgramm: pastebin what you have, we can work on it :]
2021-04-25 17:00:21 +0200AlleriaGuest42540
2021-04-25 17:00:26 +0200 <ski> or else you need to explain more in detail what you're struggling with
2021-04-25 17:00:38 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/DbPMjrwQ
2021-04-25 17:00:42 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I had this
2021-04-25 17:00:52 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Atom is just a wrapper for a thingy
2021-04-25 17:01:06 +0200 <ski> how're `Atom' and `Sustitucio' defined ?
2021-04-25 17:01:08 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> And sustitucio is the list of tuples
2021-04-25 17:01:25 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> data Atom = Atom { _nomPredicat::String, _termes::[ Term ] }
2021-04-25 17:01:26 +0200 <HelplessProgramm>   deriving (Eq, Show)
2021-04-25 17:01:26 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> type Sustitucio = [ (Term, Term) ] -- [(variable, constant), (variable, constant), ...]
2021-04-25 17:02:26 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> So basically sustitucio is a list of tuples
2021-04-25 17:02:48 +0200 <ski> ok
2021-04-25 17:03:04 +0200 <gnumonic> You probably shouldn't be using a list of tuples?
2021-04-25 17:03:11 +0200 <ski> i think it would be better to use `null' rather than `== []' .. and even better to use pattern-matching
2021-04-25 17:03:15 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-25 17:03:32 +0200 <gnumonic> Unless this is an assignment and you have to, a Data.Map map would be better...
2021-04-25 17:03:37 +0200 <ski> and you need to show `sustitueixCamps', i think
2021-04-25 17:03:38 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Im kinda new, this is for school, i didnt do the definitions
2021-04-25 17:04:02 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Yeah sustitueixCamps was a function i tried but i deleted it already
2021-04-25 17:04:21 +0200Guest42540(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-8d26-87d2-93d2-7b51.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:04:37 +0200wei2912(~wei2912@unaffiliated/wei2912) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:04:47 +0200 <ski> it sounds like defining it would be a good start
2021-04-25 17:05:02 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> So for each item in Sustitucio, if the tuple is (a,b) i have to search all occurrences of a in the Atom _termes and replace them with b
2021-04-25 17:05:11 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I dont know if it sounds confusing
2021-04-25 17:05:21 +0200 <ski> oh, also .. you're not dealing with arrays, that i can see, but rather dealing with lists
2021-04-25 17:05:36 +0200 <ski> that sounds like a plan, sure
2021-04-25 17:05:37 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> yeah sorry
2021-04-25 17:05:37 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:05:39 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Its a list
2021-04-25 17:06:30 +0200chimera(~chimera@168-182-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
2021-04-25 17:06:58 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> But the language not being imperative is so frustrating to me
2021-04-25 17:07:01 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I cant do anything
2021-04-25 17:07:21 +0200 <gnumonic> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/S6OXDjd3 something like that should work for you i think (hopefully i typed the url right my clipboard isn't working). also i just woke up and didn't test that soooo hopefully i did it right
2021-04-25 17:07:40 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:08:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> omgg thank you so much
2021-04-25 17:08:14 +0200 <ski> please forget what you know about (imperative) programming. you will have to unlearn some habits and ways of thinking. learning a new programming paradigm is always a bit like learning to program from scratch, all over again
2021-04-25 17:09:04 +0200 <gnumonic> haskell was my first language and i'm trying to learn rust and C atm so i feel your pain, it can be hard to adapt
2021-04-25 17:09:19 +0200jgt(~jgt@78.162.43.217)
2021-04-25 17:09:32 +0200 <ski> gnumonic :(
2021-04-25 17:09:34 +0200 <maerwald> once you discover monads, you'll realize we just hid imperative programming behind a fancy word
2021-04-25 17:09:49 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I tried to understand that
2021-04-25 17:09:52 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> And functors
2021-04-25 17:09:56 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> But my brain breaks
2021-04-25 17:10:14 +0200Tops2(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-093-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-04-25 17:10:18 +0200 <ski> @quote is.the.solution
2021-04-25 17:10:18 +0200 <maerwald> brain recovers quickly
2021-04-25 17:10:18 +0200 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: head-explosion is the solution, not the problem.
2021-04-25 17:10:30 +0200 <maerwald> just make sure your bones are ok
2021-04-25 17:12:56 +0200 <gnumonic> ski: if there were more haskell jobs i'd just stick with FP :-( (Unless your sad face was for giving him the solution lol)
2021-04-25 17:13:10 +0200 <ski> (the latter)
2021-04-25 17:13:40 +0200xkapastel(uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffvsvgtndmjolwtr)
2021-04-25 17:15:45 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 17:16:32 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:16:34 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 17:17:20 +0200 <gnumonic> eh there's value to figuring something out yourself but there's also value in seeing examples to help you pick up on unfamiliar patterns. i think? i dunno.
2021-04-25 17:17:39 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com)
2021-04-25 17:17:43 +0200 <[exa]> gnumonic: you don't want to learn C (and likely not even rust). Learn how assembly works (that's in fact easy), then you can intuitively produce rough descriptions of what you'd like the computer to do in C. :]
2021-04-25 17:18:03 +0200Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlsyikshxdkdktlg)
2021-04-25 17:19:19 +0200electricityZZZZ(~electrici@135-180-3-82.static.sonic.net)
2021-04-25 17:20:21 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:20:24 +0200 <ski> learning at least one assembler is useful, yes
2021-04-25 17:20:47 +0200 <hpc> rust is a perfectly fine almost-haskell imo
2021-04-25 17:21:25 +0200 <gnumonic> exa: i appreciate that advice and i have no doubt that you are correct, but I need to have a job in a few months and so my reason for learning other languages is more "need to know something for which entry level positions exist" than "optimum path to mastery of the best techniques" :-(
2021-04-25 17:22:04 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:24:32 +0200 <gnumonic> tho probably shouldn't be focusing on rust for that either but it has Good Types and is therefore an OK bridge to imperative stuff
2021-04-25 17:26:11 +0200jgt(~jgt@78.162.43.217) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:26:49 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 17:27:13 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118)
2021-04-25 17:27:37 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:27:42 +0200jgt(~jgt@46.154.28.182)
2021-04-25 17:28:17 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> hpc: how so? (very limited knowledge on this) seems to me it's a far cry from being even an almost-haskell
2021-04-25 17:28:18 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:28:30 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-25 17:29:05 +0200 <ski> sum types with pattern-matching ?
2021-04-25 17:29:18 +0200 <hpc> it has algebraic data types, an emphasis on pattern matching, and an emphasis on expressions over statements
2021-04-25 17:29:28 +0200 <jgt> gnumonic: I'm totally with you on that opinion. It's not fun to have to understand everything from first principles.
2021-04-25 17:29:45 +0200 <hpc> even up to when a block has a return value, it's just that value on its own line instead of "return value"
2021-04-25 17:29:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> like it's got some nice types yes but that's only a fraction of "what makes" haskell "haskell"
2021-04-25 17:30:01 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.117)
2021-04-25 17:30:06 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143)
2021-04-25 17:30:07 +0200 <hpc> and values are immutable by default
2021-04-25 17:30:10 +0200 <maerwald> hpc: which is terrible for readibility
2021-04-25 17:30:21 +0200 <maerwald> if you add ; then it has a different meaning
2021-04-25 17:31:19 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.10)
2021-04-25 17:31:55 +0200 <maerwald> anyway, rust is neither lazy, nor functional. But it shows that what we really want is 1. ADTs and 2. dealing with mutability in a reasonable way
2021-04-25 17:32:49 +0200 <maerwald> functional in its own is less significant imo
2021-04-25 17:33:25 +0200 <gnumonic> it'd be neat if it had higher kinded types. i think it *could*? dunno
2021-04-25 17:35:00 +0200supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-58c384-213.dhcp.inet.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 17:35:03 +0200 <hpc> rust is almost functional, it just needs to be easier to get lambdas to play nicely with ownership
2021-04-25 17:35:16 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-boxlsxrcosxlqwrv)
2021-04-25 17:35:20 +0200supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-58c384-213.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-04-25 17:35:25 +0200 <hpc> really the one thing i miss is purity - or rather, first-class IO
2021-04-25 17:36:19 +0200 <SoF> I just want a compiler for English
2021-04-25 17:36:28 +0200 <SoF> monkey's paw-like
2021-04-25 17:36:43 +0200 <SoF> if you're not specific enough, the binary will just delete your / or something
2021-04-25 17:37:16 +0200 <maerwald> I haven't missed monads at all when doing rust. Instead it has ad-hoc functions like `and_then`
2021-04-25 17:37:16 +0200 <gnumonic> i legitimately do not know how people can write programs without ADTs and pattern matching. (maybe that's just cuz I wrote like 100k lines of haskell before looking at any other languages)
2021-04-25 17:37:36 +0200 <maerwald> hpc: rust is not based on lambda calculus, so it isn't functional
2021-04-25 17:38:08 +0200 <ammar2> that's a very purist definition...
2021-04-25 17:38:12 +0200 <maerwald> yes
2021-04-25 17:38:19 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 17:38:23 +0200 <SoF> gnumonic: recently wrote some Go code and I *really* missed ADTs + pattern matching...
2021-04-25 17:38:25 +0200 <ammar2> almost to the point of being useless when talking about languages
2021-04-25 17:38:33 +0200 <maerwald> not at all
2021-04-25 17:38:36 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i think hpc has one a good job of supporting my point lol
2021-04-25 17:38:41 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> it's interesting how would you translate ownership to fp
2021-04-25 17:39:01 +0200 <maerwald> just because you can write *pure* functions in a language, doesn't make it a pure language, for instance
2021-04-25 17:39:20 +0200 <maerwald> just because python provides lambda syntax doesn't make it a functional programming language
2021-04-25 17:39:34 +0200Alleria_(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-04-25 17:39:54 +0200 <ammar2> where would you put something like scala
2021-04-25 17:39:57 +0200 <hpc> mostly because python's lambdas are an embarassment
2021-04-25 17:39:58 +0200 <gnumonic> isn't there like, some kind of graph reduction calculus that you could use instead of the lambda calculus?
2021-04-25 17:40:05 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> there is something resembling ownership going on in ST monad
2021-04-25 17:40:05 +0200 <gnumonic> where it'd basically be functional
2021-04-25 17:40:12 +0200jgt(~jgt@46.154.28.182) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:40:16 +0200 <maerwald> ammar2: I haven't had a look at Scala and its specification, so I don't know
2021-04-25 17:40:19 +0200 <hpc> ruby would be a better example, and i would say it has enough emphasis on functions to count as functional
2021-04-25 17:40:20 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> http://www.ats-lang.org/ > rust amirite
2021-04-25 17:40:23 +0200jgt(~jgt@78.162.43.217)
2021-04-25 17:40:40 +0200 <hpc> even if it's in such a chaotic way that it makes lisp macros look normal by comparison
2021-04-25 17:40:41 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-25 17:41:03 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 17:41:40 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> ammar2: the garbage bin
2021-04-25 17:41:55 +0200 <maerwald> lol
2021-04-25 17:42:19 +0200 <ammar2> sure but that's beyond the point
2021-04-25 17:44:21 +0200 <gnumonic> lambdas in python are weird. i tried to learn a bit of it and... do they not capture the scope or something? i just remember them not doing what you'd expect
2021-04-25 17:44:25 +0200Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net)
2021-04-25 17:44:50 +0200 <maerwald> ammar2: some sources say scala is based on lambda calculus
2021-04-25 17:44:51 +0200 <hpc> gnumonic: scope and that you can't do "statements" with them, only simple expressions
2021-04-25 17:45:01 +0200Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net) (Client Quit)
2021-04-25 17:45:19 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 17:45:22 +0200 <hpc> but scope's a mess in python anyway, since variables are declared implicitly
2021-04-25 17:45:24 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:45:31 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> ammar2: narrowing the point; depends are you using scalaz or not
2021-04-25 17:45:53 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-25 17:46:07 +0200 <ammar2> so it's not a property of the language then?
2021-04-25 17:46:10 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:46:17 +0200 <ammar2> what does it matter what it's based on?
2021-04-25 17:46:39 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:46:58 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 17:46:59 +0200Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net)
2021-04-25 17:46:59 +0200 <gnumonic> tbh i found python very confusing coming from a haskell background. i know it's supposed to be easy to learn but rust has been a lot smoother
2021-04-25 17:48:24 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-04-25 17:48:41 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38)
2021-04-25 17:48:45 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-25 17:48:53 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> DigitalKiwi: it's not clear whether you approve of scalaz or not
2021-04-25 17:50:45 +0200 <maerwald> ammar2: what do you mean?
2021-04-25 17:50:50 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> i love scalaz if it wasn't for scalaz i'd still be using scala and not haskell ;)
2021-04-25 17:51:02 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 17:51:14 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:51:15 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> <3 dibblego
2021-04-25 17:51:39 +0200 <maerwald> That's the only reasonable definition. All others are about how a language feels to you. That may be important, but is hard to argue about.
2021-04-25 17:53:14 +0200geekosaur(930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 17:53:56 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:54:18 +0200geekosaur(930099da@rrcs-147-0-153-218.central.biz.rr.com)
2021-04-25 17:55:46 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 17:55:59 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> so scalaz is bad? I got the impression that scalaz and cats are trying to port haskell to scala
2021-04-25 17:56:26 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> I mean, to make it possible to write in scala like in haskell
2021-04-25 17:56:49 +0200fiedlr_(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-25 17:57:32 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 17:58:09 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> no, scalaz is good, if you're writing scala.
2021-04-25 17:59:26 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 17:59:28 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> scala as oderksy intends it is extremely anti-fp
2021-04-25 18:00:29 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> https://twitter.com/ArchKiwi/status/1069358576551034885
2021-04-25 18:01:31 +0200Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-04-25 18:03:12 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 18:04:21 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> that's actually one of the reasons why I started learning haskell: I used to see occasional mentions of scalaz and cats here and there and decided to start from haskell
2021-04-25 18:04:40 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> and now I'm too deep in haskell and don't want to come back to scala
2021-04-25 18:07:11 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> __minoru__shirae: i used scalaz for years and when i'd ask questions about things i didn't understand dibblego would say to learn haskell which was frustrating because i was not working on a haskell codebase so this seems like it would not help me solve my immediate problem to learn a different language...turns out learning haskell made all of the things i didn't understand make sense ;) (and then ultimately meant i was able to switch to haskel
2021-04-25 18:07:11 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> l instead of scala too so)
2021-04-25 18:08:53 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> really it made a lot of things in other languages make more sense too. ex. python list comprehensions
2021-04-25 18:09:25 +0200shad0w_(a0ca2598@160.202.37.152)
2021-04-25 18:11:07 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-231-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
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2021-04-25 18:14:10 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-04-25 18:15:58 +0200Matthias1(~matthias@li890-22.members.linode.com)
2021-04-25 18:20:43 +0200mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Quit: mikoto-chan)
2021-04-25 18:20:58 +0200mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan)
2021-04-25 18:24:06 +0200tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 18:24:11 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d9d9:f067:f388:4d71)
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2021-04-25 18:25:46 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
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2021-04-25 18:26:58 +0200larsan1(~larsan@195.140.213.38)
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2021-04-25 18:29:25 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-04-25 18:31:08 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 18:31:39 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 18:35:49 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 18:36:32 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-04-25 18:36:36 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Hello again
2021-04-25 18:36:43 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I'm progressing better now
2021-04-25 18:36:51 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have a small doubt
2021-04-25 18:37:07 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have a function such as foo :: Int -> Int -> Int
2021-04-25 18:37:10 +0200invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
2021-04-25 18:37:15 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> And 2 lists of ints
2021-04-25 18:37:31 +0200invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) (Client Quit)
2021-04-25 18:37:48 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> How could i make it so i run all permutations of the function with the elements of the 2 lists?
2021-04-25 18:37:50 +0200invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
2021-04-25 18:38:07 +0200Thom2503(~Thom2503@49-135-166-62.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2021-04-25 18:38:11 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I tried map but it only takes one argument
2021-04-25 18:38:45 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 18:39:42 +0200 <hpc> check out Applicative
2021-04-25 18:39:49 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Oh god
2021-04-25 18:39:53 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> That makes my brain hurt
2021-04-25 18:40:37 +0200 <hpc> as you learn it, remember foo <$> firstList <*> secondList
2021-04-25 18:40:51 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> hmm
2021-04-25 18:41:01 +0200 <hpc> > (+) <$> [1, 2, 3] <*> [10, 100, 1000]
2021-04-25 18:41:03 +0200 <lambdabot> [11,101,1001,12,102,1002,13,103,1003]
2021-04-25 18:41:31 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> So i could put that and thats it?
2021-04-25 18:41:34 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> With my function
2021-04-25 18:41:40 +0200 <hpc> yes
2021-04-25 18:41:43 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Rocks
2021-04-25 18:41:46 +0200 <hpc> but still learn Applicative, it's crazy good
2021-04-25 18:42:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I try but it's still way over my head
2021-04-25 18:42:58 +0200 <hpc> have you looked at Functor? i notice you said map instead of fmap
2021-04-25 18:43:07 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Yeaah
2021-04-25 18:43:09 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 18:43:18 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Ive looked into functor applicative and monad
2021-04-25 18:43:25 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> It's really hard
2021-04-25 18:43:57 +0200mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 18:44:26 +0200 <monochrom> Have you written your own recursion for this?
2021-04-25 18:44:34 +0200gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-25 18:44:42 +0200 <monochrom> Do you want guidance for writing your own recursion for this?
2021-04-25 18:44:58 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Yeah i still struggle with it
2021-04-25 18:45:30 +0200 <gnumonic> it's not really that bad. functors are boxes you can map functions over. fmap (+1) [1,2,3] = [2,3,4]. applicatives are containers that you can put functions into, and apply those containers full of functions to containers full of values to get back a container of the result values (more or less)
2021-04-25 18:45:31 +0200 <monochrom> OK first you should write your own version of map for practice.
2021-04-25 18:46:09 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> container, thats the hard keyword
2021-04-25 18:46:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> ro understand i think
2021-04-25 18:46:41 +0200 <monochrom> After that, this may or may not be obvious: note that you want f [a,b] [x,y] = [foo a x, foo a y, foo b x, foo b y] for example.
2021-04-25 18:46:57 +0200 <monochrom> Actually let me make it longer.
2021-04-25 18:47:11 +0200 <gnumonic> i don't think it'd be helpful to elaborate on what "container" *really* means there :P it'd probably scare you
2021-04-25 18:47:27 +0200 <monochrom> You want foo [a,b,c] [x,y] = [foo a x, foo a y, foo b x, foo b y, foo c x, foo c y]
2021-04-25 18:47:35 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> small doubt, what if the function is actually foo :: int -> int -> Maybe Int
2021-04-25 18:47:48 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Does that snippet still work? the one with applicative
2021-04-25 18:48:11 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> > (+) <$> [1, 2, 3] <*> [10, 100, 1000] this one, if the function returns a maybe
2021-04-25 18:48:11 +0200 <monochrom> = [foo a x, foo a y] : the rest = map (foo a) [x,y] : the reset
2021-04-25 18:48:13 +0200 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:47: error: <hint>:1:47: error: parse error on input ‘,’
2021-04-25 18:48:23 +0200 <hpc> it'll produce [Maybe Int]
2021-04-25 18:48:41 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Is that bad?
2021-04-25 18:48:47 +0200 <hpc> depends on what you want
2021-04-25 18:48:57 +0200 <monochrom> So this suggests using recursion and map again, map (foo a) [x,y] : recursion
2021-04-25 18:49:03 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> well i don't want to find Nothing in some positions
2021-04-25 18:50:02 +0200 <hpc> you can use another function to remove the Nothings
2021-04-25 18:50:15 +0200 <monochrom> Frankly and bluntly I oppose going to Applicative or even Functor at this stage.
2021-04-25 18:50:38 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> hmmm
2021-04-25 18:51:10 +0200 <monochrom> this early stage
2021-04-25 18:51:12 +0200petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 18:51:13 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> so if i put map (foo a)[x, y] that works?
2021-04-25 18:51:19 +0200shad0w_(a0ca2598@160.202.37.152) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 18:51:25 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> x,,y being my lists i guess
2021-04-25 18:51:48 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> what function it is to remove the nothings?
2021-04-25 18:51:53 +0200 <gnumonic> lists are kind of confusing because thinking of a list as a non-deterministic computation (which you sorta have to do to grok the applicative instance) is weird if you're looking at them as "basically imperative arrays", which is probably how this person is looking at them
2021-04-25 18:51:53 +0200 <monochrom> err, map (foo a) [x, y] ++ recursion
2021-04-25 18:52:27 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-04-25 18:52:41 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-25 18:52:51 +0200 <gnumonic> :t (Identity 2)
2021-04-25 18:52:52 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => Identity a
2021-04-25 18:53:34 +0200 <gnumonic> Identity is a functor. If you have a function over "a", you can use fmap to apply it to the "a" inside of an "Identity"
2021-04-25 18:53:41 +0200 <gnumonic> fmap (+1) (Identity 2)
2021-04-25 18:54:00 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> hmm
2021-04-25 18:54:14 +0200 <gnumonic> er that should spit out Identity 3 (i never use lambdabot)
2021-04-25 18:54:26 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> :t (Identity 3)
2021-04-25 18:54:28 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => Identity a
2021-04-25 18:54:28 +0200 <monochrom> https://chrisdone.com/posts/teaching/
2021-04-25 18:55:27 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 18:55:45 +0200 <gnumonic> but say you have a function in a container. Like:
2021-04-25 18:55:53 +0200 <gnumonic> :t (Identity (+1))
2021-04-25 18:55:54 +0200 <lambdabot> Num a => Identity (a -> a)
2021-04-25 18:56:03 +0200Guest6509(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-25 18:56:44 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 18:57:34 +0200 <gnumonic> you can't fmap that function that's inside the container over another container. if you try fmap (Identity (+1)) (Identity 3) it won't give you Identity 4
2021-04-25 18:57:34 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 18:57:35 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> this assignment is so hard
2021-04-25 18:58:05 +0200 <monochrom> That won't get people to give solutions to you, by the way.
2021-04-25 18:58:25 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> lmao
2021-04-25 18:58:28 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Well
2021-04-25 18:58:29 +0200 <gnumonic> but identity is also an applicative. and the <*> operator lets you smash together Identity (+1) and Identity 3
2021-04-25 18:58:31 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I have this statement
2021-04-25 18:58:34 +0200 <gnumonic> :t (<*>)
2021-04-25 18:58:36 +0200 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2021-04-25 18:58:42 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> That one!
2021-04-25 18:58:43 +0200 <monochrom> But I'm sure you're making it harder than necessary by heeding advice on caring about Functor and Applicative.
2021-04-25 18:58:55 +0200 <monochrom> Pretty sure this is just a recursion assignment.
2021-04-25 18:59:23 +0200 <gnumonic> so, Identity (+1) <*> Identity 3
2021-04-25 18:59:28 +0200 <gnumonic> gives you Identity 4
2021-04-25 18:59:42 +0200 <monochrom> #haskell people are famous for not caring what your current level is, and just force-feed you whatever they themselves care.
2021-04-25 19:00:02 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> It's the hardest language i've seen by far
2021-04-25 19:00:11 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Too abstract
2021-04-25 19:00:11 +0200Guest6509(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:00:35 +0200 <monochrom> If you ask so much as "how do I apply f to x" they'll answer "check out Kan extensions".
2021-04-25 19:00:55 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> lol
2021-04-25 19:01:01 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I can't use libraries
2021-04-25 19:01:05 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> For this
2021-04-25 19:01:18 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-04-25 19:01:32 +0200 <gnumonic> i was just trying to explain the above example to him. i don't really think it's that hard. i mean understanding how to use all this stuff together is hard but the basics of "put function in container, smash container with function in it into container w/ value in it"
2021-04-25 19:01:36 +0200 <gnumonic> isn't really rocket science
2021-04-25 19:02:13 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:02:37 +0200 <hpc> to be fair, that question was the classic first use of Applicative
2021-04-25 19:02:57 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> Yeah I think i had to use that
2021-04-25 19:03:05 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> But it's still very hard for me
2021-04-25 19:03:19 +0200 <monochrom> <*> counts as library function.
2021-04-25 19:03:49 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> How do i remove Nothings from a list?
2021-04-25 19:04:18 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> {-# LANGUAGE RecordWildCards #-}
2021-04-25 19:04:18 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> import Data.Char (isUpper)
2021-04-25 19:04:19 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> import Data.List (nub, isInfixOf)
2021-04-25 19:04:19 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> import Data.List.Split (splitOn)
2021-04-25 19:04:20 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> import Data.String.Utils (strip)
2021-04-25 19:04:20 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> import Data.Maybe (mapMaybe, fromMaybe)
2021-04-25 19:04:22 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 19:04:22 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> I just can use this stuff
2021-04-25 19:04:31 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> And what's included by default of course
2021-04-25 19:04:47 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@2a00:23c7:622f:2c00:5726:e59c:c228:d7ce) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:05:04 +0200 <gnumonic> check the first element of the list, see if it's a nothing, if it is then remove it, then do that again til you're out of list :)
2021-04-25 19:05:57 +0200sw1nn(~sw1nn@2a00:23c7:622f:2c00:b279:c6ef:9497:e6fa)
2021-04-25 19:07:15 +0200 <monochrom> Except these are immutable lists, you can't remove anything.
2021-04-25 19:07:32 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> aha
2021-04-25 19:07:38 +0200 <HelplessProgramm> So sad
2021-04-25 19:07:41 +0200 <monochrom> And no, "'remove' means you clone but selectively omit things" is not obvious to some students.
2021-04-25 19:08:08 +0200 <monochrom> Indeed, when you write the code out, nothing in the code smells remotely like removing anything.
2021-04-25 19:08:43 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:09:11 +0200invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:13:41 +0200edrx(~Eduardo@2804:56c:d2c0:6300:d28a:a35a:c563:afab)
2021-04-25 19:15:22 +0200 <edrx> hi! is this the right place to ask questions about stack?
2021-04-25 19:15:44 +0200HelplessProgramm(4f911f9c@156.red-79-145-31.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-25 19:16:16 +0200 <hpc> this is a queue only channel :P
2021-04-25 19:17:29 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:17:29 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-04-25 19:17:45 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 19:19:51 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:21:01 +0200lawr3nce(~lawr3nce@gateway/tor-sasl/lawr3nce) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 19:21:25 +0200 <edrx> I'll take that as a yes =) so: I'm trying to install Agda using Stack, and I'm running into several problems - and I'm using this as an excuse to learn more about Stack (and about Cabal, Cabal Hell, etc). I use Debian, and I decided to do an "apt-get remove haskell-stack" in order to use the latest version, and then I did "wget -qO- https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh"...
2021-04-25 19:21:52 +0200carbolymer(~carbolyme@dropacid.net) (Quit: o/)
2021-04-25 19:21:54 +0200CrazyPython(~crazypyth@98.122.164.118)
2021-04-25 19:22:01 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:22:10 +0200 <edrx> (my full notes are here - http://angg.twu.net/e/stack.e.html - but they're messy)
2021-04-25 19:23:38 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:24:18 +0200 <edrx> what do I need to do to delete the current installation of stack and its files? is this enough? 1) rm /usr/local/bin/stack 2) rm ~/.local/bin/stack 3) remove all the stack-related directories in ~/.local/ ?
2021-04-25 19:24:46 +0200 <edrx> ~/.stack/, iirc
2021-04-25 19:25:36 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 19:28:27 +0200 <sclv> sounds right
2021-04-25 19:29:10 +0200 <geekosaur> ~/.stack-work?
2021-04-25 19:29:53 +0200 <wz1000> I don't think there is ~/.stack-work, but there is a .stack-work/ folder in any directory with a stack.yaml you have run stack build on
2021-04-25 19:29:56 +0200 <sclv> note that if you install something with stack then remove all stack related dirs it may break due to linking
2021-04-25 19:30:29 +0200 <edrx> sclv: I'm planning to remove everything that I installed with stack, too...
2021-04-25 19:30:50 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 19:30:59 +0200 <wz1000> Cabal hell isn't really a thing anymore, in my experience these days cabal is much more likely to Just Work™ than stack on most things
2021-04-25 19:32:50 +0200 <Uniaika> cabal.project is love, cabal.project is life
2021-04-25 19:34:11 +0200wavemode_(~wavemode@097-070-075-143.res.spectrum.com)
2021-04-25 19:35:05 +0200desperek_(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-04-25 19:35:20 +0200juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121)
2021-04-25 19:35:25 +0200 <maerwald> stack has a better file format, though :>
2021-04-25 19:36:27 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:37:56 +0200 <Uniaika> maerwald: I loathe yaml :3
2021-04-25 19:38:07 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@147.136.46.217.dyn.plus.net)
2021-04-25 19:38:16 +0200 <maerwald> better than cabal, where no one really knows the format
2021-04-25 19:38:27 +0200 <maerwald> and there are a couple of funny edge cases
2021-04-25 19:38:41 +0200mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:40:06 +0200 <maerwald> so yeah... I want cabal with a reasonable format, whether it's yaml or toml, idc
2021-04-25 19:42:17 +0200 <Uniaika> tapas: you hear that? The People™ want to write Dhall for Cabal!
2021-04-25 19:42:30 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b9875e.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 19:43:22 +0200 <maerwald> why stop there? Can we not require nix for cabal file format?
2021-04-25 19:45:17 +0200Guest6509(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-25 19:45:22 +0200carbolymer(~carbolyme@dropacid.net)
2021-04-25 19:45:31 +0200desperek_(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-04-25 19:48:32 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 19:49:39 +0200hexfive(~hexfive@50.35.83.177) (Quit: i must go. my people need me.)
2021-04-25 19:49:50 +0200 <monochrom> Why stop there? Learn from xmonad. A cabal file ought to be a haskell file.
2021-04-25 19:50:05 +0200electricityZZZZ(~electrici@135-180-3-82.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 19:50:08 +0200 <hpc> and we'll name it... Setup.hs
2021-04-25 19:50:32 +0200 <geekosaur> please don't learn from xmobar where it only looks like a haskell file…
2021-04-25 19:51:39 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2021-04-25 19:52:02 +0200 <Uniaika> :D
2021-04-25 19:52:03 +0200 <maerwald> purists only use Makefiles
2021-04-25 19:52:22 +0200 <Uniaika> and that is why they lose their mind
2021-04-25 19:53:01 +0200 <hpc> the purest purists use Makefiles in every subdirectory too
2021-04-25 19:53:28 +0200 <maerwald> Uniaika: you basically said FreeBSD users are insane :p
2021-04-25 19:54:00 +0200 <Uniaika> maerwald: 1) I use FreeBSD 2) I have gone to a mental hospital in the past
2021-04-25 19:54:33 +0200 <Uniaika> is there are a causal relationship between the two? maybe not, but the correlation is strong :-P
2021-04-25 19:56:13 +0200 <maerwald> I think the question is: does FreeBSD make you insane or do you need to be insane to use it?
2021-04-25 19:56:47 +0200 <maerwald> so causality no question, but in what direction
2021-04-25 19:57:04 +0200 <hpc> maybe it's if and only if, like https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.2284.pdf
2021-04-25 19:57:47 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> how do people use something other than ubuntu, almost all installation instructions cover ubuntu
2021-04-25 19:57:48 +0200 <maerwald> that's a weird paper
2021-04-25 19:58:29 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-25 19:59:33 +0200 <hpc> it's one of my favorites
2021-04-25 20:00:16 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-25 20:01:21 +0200sagax(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 20:01:37 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:02:10 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-25 20:02:11 +0200 <maerwald> Uniaika: https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/why-you-should-migrate-everything-from-linux-to-bsd.html uh-oh
2021-04-25 20:03:16 +0200 <Uniaika> maerwald: well, if this random dude says so, gotta do it!
2021-04-25 20:03:22 +0200 <maerwald> exactly
2021-04-25 20:07:48 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-25 20:07:55 +0200thblt(~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt)
2021-04-25 20:08:35 +0200 <maerwald> this post is gold
2021-04-25 20:09:00 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:09:16 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 20:10:33 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.73)
2021-04-25 20:10:57 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-04-25 20:11:09 +0200 <nut> I'm using emacs to load a Haskell file without any cabal or stack project. How can I load a third party library such as lens
2021-04-25 20:11:57 +0200 <gnumonic> anyone know a good book or resource or whatever on dependently typed programming? i've been studying singletons for a week or so and i get how the library works but i'd really like some examples more involved than the basic vector stuff
2021-04-25 20:12:02 +0200 <nut> I can use the repl without problem
2021-04-25 20:12:04 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:12:13 +0200 <nut> Just can't load any other libs such as lens
2021-04-25 20:13:44 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:14:48 +0200 <Uniaika> nut: either you compile it with stack's option '--package lens'
2021-04-25 20:14:55 +0200 <Uniaika> or you create a cabal or stack project
2021-04-25 20:15:04 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82be79e0055f724416be108a9.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-25 20:15:26 +0200 <nut> ok, so have to be inside a cabal project(I'm not using stack)
2021-04-25 20:15:37 +0200 <Uniaika> yes, you should
2021-04-25 20:15:46 +0200 <maerwald> I don't know anything about emacs, but in cabal you can do: cabal repl --build-depends lens
2021-04-25 20:15:48 +0200 <ski> actual dependent types, or approximating some usages of them, via singleons, GADTs ?
2021-04-25 20:16:25 +0200 <Uniaika> gnumonic: you *do* realise that Haskell is *not* a dependently-typed language?
2021-04-25 20:16:39 +0200 <maerwald> gnumonic: the f* tutorial
2021-04-25 20:16:52 +0200tlaxkit(~konversat@185.228.155.197) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 20:16:54 +0200 <maerwald> gnumonic: https://www.fstar-lang.org/tutorial/
2021-04-25 20:17:13 +0200 <geekosaur> hasochism :)
2021-04-25 20:17:30 +0200 <Uniaika> hehehe
2021-04-25 20:17:47 +0200 <gnumonic> Er, yeah, I know there are things you can't do in Haskell and that it's not dependently typed but it's kind of frustrating trying to figure out how to fake something with singletons when I have a somewhat poor understanding of the thing I'm trying to fake :p
2021-04-25 20:18:11 +0200 <tapas> Uniaika: i'm pushing to get a BNF specified for the next or succ next major release so people can write these tools as they please.
2021-04-25 20:19:00 +0200 <tapas> i don't care if someone wants to write dhall to specify a build. That's fine. As long as the build tool knows how to normalize it and turn it into somthing that works.
2021-04-25 20:19:10 +0200 <gnumonic> Oh that fstar tutorial looks very good, thank you.
2021-04-25 20:19:34 +0200 <maerwald> The language is also superior to haskell in term of verification features
2021-04-25 20:21:05 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5378:d500:70a3:57b2:577c:e365) (Quit: xff0x)
2021-04-25 20:22:13 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 20:23:19 +0200 <zzz> does anyone know what this means? https://paste.jrvieira.com/1619374859564
2021-04-25 20:25:07 +0200 <maerwald> WSL?
2021-04-25 20:25:07 +0200 <geekosaur> I'm getting a cert error from that url
2021-04-25 20:25:30 +0200unclechu(unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmbbnkztqlxjmyvi)
2021-04-25 20:25:49 +0200 <zzz> no wsl
2021-04-25 20:26:05 +0200 <zzz> this is not the first time this happens and i fogot what i did last time
2021-04-25 20:26:41 +0200 <zzz> geekosaur: what's the error? looks fine to me
2021-04-25 20:27:12 +0200 <gnumonic> also, though maybe this is a dumb question, in what sense is e.g. the Sigma type in singletons an approximation of a dependent pair in "real" dependently typed language? The ergonomics are pretty bad but it's a real dependent pair, isn't it?
2021-04-25 20:27:16 +0200philderbeast(~textual@bras-base-vldvpq5901w-grc-06-184-144-244-252.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-04-25 20:28:08 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233)
2021-04-25 20:29:10 +0200 <monochrom> fdTryLock? Is that 32-bit GHC?
2021-04-25 20:29:13 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-25 20:29:22 +0200 <zzz> monochrom: yes it is
2021-04-25 20:29:56 +0200 <zzz> ghc 8.10.4
2021-04-25 20:30:27 +0200 <zzz> linux 32bit
2021-04-25 20:30:41 +0200 <monochrom> Actually I forgot whether it's GHC or cabal-install, but definitely either one's 32-bit linux build.
2021-04-25 20:30:44 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-04-25 20:31:33 +0200 <ski> @where SF
2021-04-25 20:31:33 +0200 <lambdabot> "Software Foundations" by Pierce,Casinghino,Greenberg,Sjöberg,Yorgey in 2011-06 at <http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/sf/> about "the mathematical theory of programming and programming languages",
2021-04-25 20:31:34 +0200 <lambdabot> "It develops basic concepts of functional programming, logic, operational semantics, lambda-calculus, and static type systems, using the Coq proof assistant."
2021-04-25 20:31:36 +0200 <ski> @where CPDT
2021-04-25 20:31:36 +0200 <lambdabot> "Certified Programming with Dependent Types" by Adam Chlipala (aka Smerdyakov) (in progress) at <http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/>, "about practical engineering with the Coq proof assistant"
2021-04-25 20:31:36 +0200 <monochrom> Ah, cabal-install, https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7313
2021-04-25 20:31:45 +0200 <ski> iirc, there's also one called "Coq'Art" ?
2021-04-25 20:31:50 +0200 <ski> gnumonic ^
2021-04-25 20:32:41 +0200 <monochrom> If you can downgrade to 3.2.0.0, that works beautifully.
2021-04-25 20:32:56 +0200 <unclechu> hey, why if i define my own version of `$` exactly the same way as it’s defined in `base` library rankntypes get broken?
2021-04-25 20:33:23 +0200 <unclechu> i get these: “Expected type: (SFoo α0 -> p0) -> String” “Actual type: (forall (β :: Foo). Singleton β -> String) -> String”
2021-04-25 20:33:41 +0200 <monochrom> If not, do your own build of 3.4.0.0 but add a flag like the link says near the end.
2021-04-25 20:33:43 +0200 <unclechu> it works perfectly fine if i use `$`
2021-04-25 20:33:44 +0200 <zzz> monochrom: thanks. i think that's what i had done, but must have forgotten and upgraded again thanks to ghcup suggesting me. trying it now
2021-04-25 20:33:55 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2021-04-25 20:34:01 +0200 <maerwald> is that a known bug?
2021-04-25 20:34:03 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:34:03 +0200 <monochrom> Yeah I think deja vu too.
2021-04-25 20:34:05 +0200 <monochrom> Yes.
2021-04-25 20:34:08 +0200 <monochrom> See the link.
2021-04-25 20:34:08 +0200 <ski> unclechu : compiler magic
2021-04-25 20:34:24 +0200 <unclechu> ski: do you know something about it?
2021-04-25 20:34:35 +0200 <ski> special-casing of `$' in GHC
2021-04-25 20:34:38 +0200 <maerwald> ok, I'll just build an unofficial bindist then
2021-04-25 20:35:17 +0200 <ski> treating `... $ ...' as `(...) (...)', to avoid impredicativity problems
2021-04-25 20:36:07 +0200 <unclechu> ski: i assume there is now way to make it handle my custom operator the same way without changing the compiler itself?
2021-04-25 20:36:44 +0200 <gnumonic> ski: thanks for the links. i read through some of the upenn stuff a while ago for help with the STLC but had forgotten about it
2021-04-25 20:37:06 +0200 <unclechu> ski: how about `(Data.Function.&)`?
2021-04-25 20:37:26 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i72aubpu4xq2xw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-04-25 20:37:43 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:37:50 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 20:38:01 +0200 <unclechu> ski: i can see that `&` is also have the same problem.
2021-04-25 20:39:46 +0200 <zva> hey I'm using WSL and neovim and would like to have a developmentenvironment that proposes functions via a hotkey like eclipse for java. I found multiple complicated approaches googling and I wonder if there is an easy way out or something that you use?
2021-04-25 20:40:04 +0200 <zva> *template proposals in neovim
2021-04-25 20:40:21 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:41:29 +0200horatiohb(~horatiohb@159.89.43.106)
2021-04-25 20:41:42 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
2021-04-25 20:41:53 +0200 <ski> unclechu : afaik, no
2021-04-25 20:42:05 +0200 <unclechu> okay, thanks for the info
2021-04-25 20:43:28 +0200pjb(~pjb@2a01cb04063ec500ad42b45c394adc0f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 20:44:22 +0200 <maerwald> zva: the only option is HLS, which is a LSP server
2021-04-25 20:44:39 +0200 <maerwald> neovim has an LSP client embedded I think
2021-04-25 20:44:44 +0200 <geekosaur> zzz, it's saying the cert authority isn't trusted. ubuntu 13.04, which I'd expect to support all the cert authorities
2021-04-25 20:44:46 +0200 <maerwald> otherwise there are enough options
2021-04-25 20:44:58 +0200 <geekosaur> as usual the detail gets hidden by chrome
2021-04-25 20:45:28 +0200 <zva> you mean as in enough options that are not neovim?
2021-04-25 20:45:31 +0200 <monochrom> Isn't ubuntu 13.04 too old and un-updated?
2021-04-25 20:45:42 +0200 <geekosaur> sorry 18.04
2021-04-25 20:45:45 +0200 <geekosaur> I typoed
2021-04-25 20:46:01 +0200 <geekosaur> should be latest, I installed this machine only a month or so ago
2021-04-25 20:46:18 +0200 <geekosaur> wow, I misread /etc/lsb-release. 20.04
2021-04-25 20:46:26 +0200 <hpc> yeah, i was going to say ubuntu is year.month
2021-04-25 20:47:16 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5378:d500:c8e4:3d2e:19af:2ab8)
2021-04-25 20:47:56 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> they're going to have to change the naming policy after the year 3000
2021-04-25 20:48:57 +0200 <Uniaika> tapas: <3
2021-04-25 20:50:41 +0200mozzarella(~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:50:54 +0200 <zzz> geekosaur: i'm using let's encrypt
2021-04-25 20:51:01 +0200 <zzz> hum...
2021-04-25 20:51:14 +0200fox[m]1(foxforestf@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ktrnqcmqwewsriyn) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:14 +0200slycelote[m](slycelotem@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qxwtofvhhmvbqmln) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:14 +0200pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oheqkealrnytrlhs) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:14 +0200alexfmpe(alexfmpema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-trjxzqvsyvzjueef) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:15 +0200CrabMan(phi-matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ivwszzyccqpifjnv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:15 +0200psydruid[m](psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijjtojxooyvwelme) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:51:33 +0200fox[m]1(foxforestf@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zftkphzstualrnft)
2021-04-25 20:52:44 +0200slycelote[m](slycelotem@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jwwdnktlxoqqmejb)
2021-04-25 20:52:44 +0200pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-veqquvhdxxabijbc)
2021-04-25 20:52:54 +0200Guest14320(bitonicmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ahzjoopovnugnfrk) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 20:52:56 +0200CrabMan(phi-matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lcpxgjtgvabxggfm)
2021-04-25 20:53:13 +0200 <monochrom> But I didn't get an invalid-cert error.
2021-04-25 20:53:49 +0200 <monochrom> To be fair, I added a cert I created for myself.
2021-04-25 20:53:55 +0200 <zva> maerwald: you mean as in enough options that are not neovim? ty I think I'll use vsc.
2021-04-25 20:54:11 +0200 <maerwald> zva: no, I mean alternative LSP clients
2021-04-25 20:54:23 +0200 <maerwald> coc.nvim, LanguageClient-neovim and others
2021-04-25 20:54:46 +0200alexfmpe(alexfmpema@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gtmdhmuxxyypwmhc)
2021-04-25 20:55:39 +0200 <zva> maerwald: ok ty
2021-04-25 20:56:05 +0200psydruid[m](psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mrkfgejepoksviny)
2021-04-25 20:58:12 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-25 20:58:14 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 20:58:47 +0200Guest14320(bitonicmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ecvwsnanzejbrweo)
2021-04-25 21:00:50 +0200mozzarella(~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101)
2021-04-25 21:00:51 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:01:30 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-25 21:01:47 +0200geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-25 21:02:17 +0200petrus(~petrus@unaffiliated/petrus)
2021-04-25 21:03:45 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i72aubpu4xq2xw.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 21:08:09 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.115.131) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:08:29 +0200 <petrus> Suddenly I cannot run cabal repl in any of my project directories, it always dies with this mysterious error message: libHSwatchdog-0.1.0.0-inplace-ghc8.10.4.so: cannot open shared object file
2021-04-25 21:09:49 +0200geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:11:29 +0200 <petrus> Now watchdog is one of my projects and this "missing" file is somewhere deep inside of dist-newstyle/
2021-04-25 21:12:26 +0200 <petrus> in this project everything works fine, but the repl
2021-04-25 21:13:02 +0200mjlbachaterius
2021-04-25 21:13:07 +0200 <petrus> however in any other project's directory cabal repl fails with the same error message
2021-04-25 21:13:11 +0200ateriusmjblach
2021-04-25 21:13:14 +0200mjblachmjlbach
2021-04-25 21:14:00 +0200 <sclv> check if you have a ghc env file
2021-04-25 21:14:19 +0200 <petrus> sclv: where?
2021-04-25 21:14:57 +0200 <maerwald> zzz: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghcup/unofficial-bindists/cabal/3.4.0.0/cabal-install-3.4.0.0-i386-…
2021-04-25 21:15:01 +0200 <maerwald> can you try that one?
2021-04-25 21:15:24 +0200 <sclv> petrus: see the package env section here https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/packages.html
2021-04-25 21:17:28 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-04-25 21:19:40 +0200xkapastel(uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffvsvgtndmjolwtr) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-25 21:20:17 +0200 <petrus> sclv: that doesn't really help. where these env files can be I cannot find any
2021-04-25 21:20:59 +0200 <petrus> and why other projects know about this particular project's lib
2021-04-25 21:21:24 +0200 <petrus> which actually do exist, but cannot be found
2021-04-25 21:21:48 +0200 <petrus> mot even by its own project
2021-04-25 21:21:55 +0200 <sclv> i suspect it would be in the ghc homedir
2021-04-25 21:22:14 +0200 <sclv> you might have it if you ever cabal installed your project
2021-04-25 21:22:22 +0200 <petrus> sclv: I use, ghcup
2021-04-25 21:23:00 +0200 <petrus> what is the format of this env file's name? so I can search for it
2021-04-25 21:23:25 +0200 <petrus> actually, i never installed this project
2021-04-25 21:23:29 +0200 <sclv> its in ~/.ghc/your-ghc-arch/environments
2021-04-25 21:24:10 +0200 <petrus> sclv: I do not have such directory
2021-04-25 21:24:30 +0200 <sclv> no ~/.ghc at all?
2021-04-25 21:25:18 +0200 <petrus> of course I have .ghc, i don;t have ~/.ghc/your-ghc-arch/environments
2021-04-25 21:25:36 +0200 <sclv> its not literally your ghc arch
2021-04-25 21:25:48 +0200 <sclv> Substitute in the ghc you’re using
2021-04-25 21:26:07 +0200 <sclv> but if its not there, might not be the problem
2021-04-25 21:26:27 +0200 <sclv> if raw ghci causes the problem then its likely at issue tho
2021-04-25 21:26:33 +0200 <petrus> I did not take it literally
2021-04-25 21:26:47 +0200 <sclv> you can also try from your homedir
2021-04-25 21:27:00 +0200 <petrus> try what?
2021-04-25 21:27:07 +0200 <petrus> ghci?
2021-04-25 21:27:16 +0200 <sclv> Ya
2021-04-25 21:27:30 +0200 <sclv> Ghc will search any superdir for an env file
2021-04-25 21:27:32 +0200 <petrus> if I am outside of any project, the cabal repl works with fake
2021-04-25 21:27:47 +0200 <petrus> project or whatever
2021-04-25 21:28:24 +0200 <sclv> ok and if you try a fresh project in a fresh dir directly off your home dir?
2021-04-25 21:29:15 +0200 <petrus> I already did that, it fails the same way, complaining about the same lib!
2021-04-25 21:29:35 +0200 <sclv> the autodiscovered ones are prefixed .ghc.environment fwiw
2021-04-25 21:29:46 +0200Thom2503(~Thom2503@49-135-166-62.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-25 21:29:51 +0200 <sclv> if its not an env file i have no other guesses, sorry...
2021-04-25 21:30:01 +0200Guest91421(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-04-25 21:30:18 +0200 <int-e> is there any reference to the watchdog project in the environment variables?
2021-04-25 21:30:19 +0200 <petrus> just figured myself too
2021-04-25 21:30:29 +0200Guest6509(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:30:33 +0200 <petrus> int-e:no
2021-04-25 21:31:29 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.59.190)
2021-04-25 21:31:52 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@77.94.25.177) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:32:26 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:32:44 +0200 <petrus> I have just searched ~/.cabal, .ghc, .ghcup, .local, .cache
2021-04-25 21:33:30 +0200 <sclv> petrus: does the problem occur with ghcup or just cabal?
2021-04-25 21:33:33 +0200 <petrus> found no .ghc.environment.x86_64-linux-8.10.4 file
2021-04-25 21:33:42 +0200 <sclv> there may also be a cabal project file in a superdir confusing things...
2021-04-25 21:34:09 +0200 <int-e> mysterious. maybe something like strace -eopenat -f cabal repl to figure out which interesting files are opened?
2021-04-25 21:34:23 +0200 <petrus> the brand new test project was in my home dir top
2021-04-25 21:34:53 +0200 <int-e> (not for the faint of heart, strace tends to be very noisy)
2021-04-25 21:34:54 +0200 <petrus> so there is no super dir
2021-04-25 21:35:24 +0200 <petrus> int-e: hmm I an gonna try
2021-04-25 21:36:31 +0200 <petrus> one more thing I mirrored my whole home dir but .cache on another machine, now I get the same problem there too
2021-04-25 21:36:57 +0200ddellaco_(~ddellacos@ool-44c73afa.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:37:30 +0200 <zzz> maerwald: what is that exactly?
2021-04-25 21:37:59 +0200 <maerwald> zzz: a static cabal-install 32 bit binary that shouldn't have that fdlock error
2021-04-25 21:38:08 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 21:38:12 +0200 <maerwald> 3.4.0.0
2021-04-25 21:38:17 +0200juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 21:39:10 +0200 <maerwald> it's gpg signed and contains plan.json if you're paranoid...
2021-04-25 21:42:49 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:43:07 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-25 21:44:05 +0200 <petrus> int-e: cabel repl searching for this one particular file everywhere! /etc/ /usr/lib, .ghcup .cabal/store
2021-04-25 21:44:09 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 21:44:42 +0200fiedlr_(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 21:44:43 +0200cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:45:26 +0200 <petrus> but I can't see where it gets the idea to search for this file at the first place
2021-04-25 21:45:26 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 21:46:19 +0200 <petrus> I feel like banging my head to a brick wall :-(
2021-04-25 21:46:29 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 21:46:55 +0200 <maerwald> that's usually more satisfying than debugging cabal
2021-04-25 21:47:04 +0200Enrico63(520efe97@cpc92708-cmbg20-2-0-cust150.5-4.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-25 21:47:48 +0200 <sclv> does ghci search for the file, or just cabal repl?
2021-04-25 21:47:55 +0200 <sclv> also have you tried running repl with high verbosity?
2021-04-25 21:50:17 +0200sclv(sid39734@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtovbcwumwbvxdup) (Changing host)
2021-04-25 21:50:17 +0200sclv(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2021-04-25 21:50:49 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 21:50:49 +0200 <petrus> sclv: no. what is the flag for high verbosity?
2021-04-25 21:51:12 +0200 <sclv> `cabal repl -v3`
2021-04-25 21:51:29 +0200 <petrus> no -> I mean only cabal repl
2021-04-25 21:53:30 +0200ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.73) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 21:54:22 +0200 <petrus> sclv: okay, I got this verbose output it's as noisy as strace, what should I look for
2021-04-25 21:54:41 +0200 <petrus> the file name shows up only once just before crash
2021-04-25 21:55:15 +0200 <sclv> ok well look for anything that would indicate why its trying to load the file?
2021-04-25 21:55:21 +0200 <sclv> maybe paste it?
2021-04-25 21:55:50 +0200 <sclv> you can also try v1 or v2 to get less verbose output that may still help
2021-04-25 21:56:14 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c)
2021-04-25 21:56:27 +0200 <maerwald> zzz: can you confirm?
2021-04-25 21:58:00 +0200 <petrus> actually ghci what fails finding the damn file, but cabal somehow asks it to open it.
2021-04-25 21:58:31 +0200 <petrus> I can't paste that, dumps the whole environment
2021-04-25 21:59:45 +0200 <petrus> by the way I am talking about the top level test project, cannot be interference but there is!
2021-04-25 21:59:52 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-04-25 21:59:56 +0200gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-25 22:00:24 +0200nicholasbulka(~nicholasb@2601:900:4301:da0:58e6:3a0a:96a:ca2c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:00:32 +0200dastomaten(~dastomate@0543f40b.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:00:33 +0200 <petrus> I have already ran a few "sudo ldconfig", since strace shows it is consulted several times
2021-04-25 22:01:10 +0200 <sclv> i mean use a pastebin, not into like irc directly
2021-04-25 22:02:26 +0200 <int-e> petrus: the thing to look for in the case of strace would be configuration files (like the ghc environment files)... it's difficult to say, probably easier to come up with files that can be safely excluded (like .so files)... in the case of -v3 it's similar, but you're at the mercy of the program to print the information.
2021-04-25 22:02:47 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:02:57 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-04-25 22:03:02 +0200 <petrus> sclv: what's the difference?
2021-04-25 22:03:59 +0200_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 22:04:18 +0200 <petrus> is it possible the the name of my project "watchdog" is in collision with something in ghc system
2021-04-25 22:04:46 +0200 <petrus> just a desperate idea
2021-04-25 22:05:33 +0200Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlsyikshxdkdktlg) ()
2021-04-25 22:05:41 +0200 <monochrom> No.
2021-04-25 22:05:57 +0200 <int-e> nah. really, no. 1) there is no such thing in ghc. 2) the file name looks too much like one generated by cabal
2021-04-25 22:06:35 +0200 <int-e> (the -inplace- part in particular; an installed ghc would not have that)
2021-04-25 22:06:44 +0200 <petrus> int-e: the whole strace show no environment file opened until the very end
2021-04-25 22:06:49 +0200 <monochrom> I disbelieve the ghc-env-file theory. My understanding of cabal repl is that cabal repl ignores it.
2021-04-25 22:07:16 +0200 <int-e> petrus: good, that pretty much confirms what monochrom just wrote
2021-04-25 22:08:03 +0200 <petrus> once again, repl fails in watchdog project dir too, however the file is there, in this case
2021-04-25 22:08:45 +0200jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:09:05 +0200 <petrus> here it is: ./dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-linux/ghc-8.10.4/watchdog-0.1.0.0/build/libHSwatchdog-0.1.0.0-inplace-ghc8.10.4.so
2021-04-25 22:09:29 +0200 <sclv> petrus: so there _is_ an env file opened at the end?
2021-04-25 22:10:11 +0200 <maerwald> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/watchdog
2021-04-25 22:10:28 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:10:33 +0200 <petrus> sclv: no
2021-04-25 22:10:52 +0200 <maerwald> note that the hackage one has a higher version
2021-04-25 22:11:01 +0200 <sclv> "the whole strace show no environment file opened until the very end" ?
2021-04-25 22:11:30 +0200 <int-e> sclv: english is a difficult and ambiguous language
2021-04-25 22:11:32 +0200 <monochrom> This is why temporal logics define two "until" operators. >:)
2021-04-25 22:11:48 +0200 <sclv> not for me it isn't. english is clear and unambiguous to me.
2021-04-25 22:11:49 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9563253a50075d84e1af.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-25 22:11:58 +0200 <sclv> but i'm different
2021-04-25 22:12:02 +0200 <petrus> until bu the very end - but no, not at all
2021-04-25 22:12:12 +0200 <sclv> ok, thanks for clearing that up :-)
2021-04-25 22:12:23 +0200 <int-e> sclv: evidently not, since you read the sentence in an admittetly natural, but unintended way :P
2021-04-25 22:12:28 +0200 <int-e> *admittedly
2021-04-25 22:12:43 +0200jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55)
2021-04-25 22:13:59 +0200 <petrus> does hls cache stuff somewhere?
2021-04-25 22:14:29 +0200 <int-e> Ugh, how is hls involved?
2021-04-25 22:14:43 +0200 <petrus> in my neovim editor
2021-04-25 22:16:02 +0200 <int-e> (I thought you were running cabal repl from the shell. So that should make both the editor and hls irrelevant. I'd hope.)
2021-04-25 22:16:59 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82be79e0055f724416be108a9.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-25 22:17:05 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:17:09 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82be79e00f8104d127665e968.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-25 22:17:58 +0200 <petrus> int-e: correct I run repl from the shell. however hls/editor/... (may) create loaded modules cche
2021-04-25 22:18:11 +0200 <maerwald> ~/.cache/hie-bios/
2021-04-25 22:18:30 +0200 <petrus> I have found something .cache/ghc and already wiped it
2021-04-25 22:18:46 +0200 <petrus> maerwald: yes!
2021-04-25 22:20:14 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-25 22:20:18 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d9d9:f067:f388:4d71)
2021-04-25 22:20:28 +0200 <int-e> So haskell-ide-engine? and how does that get picked up? through an environment variable or something else?
2021-04-25 22:20:29 +0200 <petrus> maerwald: wiped it, problem persists.
2021-04-25 22:20:59 +0200 <petrus> int-e: no, I think just the location
2021-04-25 22:21:43 +0200 <int-e> cabal doesn't know about that location without being told I'd think.
2021-04-25 22:21:52 +0200 <int-e> But it didn't help so never mind.
2021-04-25 22:22:29 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82be79e00f8104d127665e968.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:22:34 +0200maralorn(maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fpczaqijffcnrkpc) (Quit: issued !quit command)
2021-04-25 22:22:35 +0200letmein(~letmein@2601:1c1:4200:938f:f8bf:6a67:4eed:b2c1)
2021-04-25 22:23:12 +0200 <petrus> int-e: I don't really have any specific cabal, ghc etc env vars
2021-04-25 22:23:22 +0200 <int-e> . o O ( env | grep GHC\\\|CABAL )
2021-04-25 22:23:32 +0200stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-04-25 22:23:40 +0200usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
2021-04-25 22:23:52 +0200 <petrus> already did
2021-04-25 22:25:16 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:25:27 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d9d9:f067:f388:4d71) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:27:13 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-25 22:29:22 +0200 <petrus> I am considering wiping the whole .ghc,.cabal,.ghcup but worried about two things 1) this lib name cached somewhere else 2) it could take ages to recompile my projects and fill up the cabal/store again
2021-04-25 22:29:54 +0200ADG1089(~aditya@171.76.29.233) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-25 22:30:14 +0200 <maerwald> why delete? mv
2021-04-25 22:30:55 +0200 <int-e> mirror (you did that already, didn't you?) then delete
2021-04-25 22:31:07 +0200int-eshrugs
2021-04-25 22:31:29 +0200 <petrus> maerwald: ld caching uses file id-s I think not names
2021-04-25 22:31:39 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:32:44 +0200 <petrus> also, to test I still need to recreate my whole env
2021-04-25 22:33:07 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-04-25 22:33:10 +0200 <zzz> maerwald: how do i install that?
2021-04-25 22:33:57 +0200 <maerwald> zzz: ghcup install cabal -u https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghcup/unofficial-bindists/cabal/3.4.0.0/cabal-install-3.4.0.0-i386-… 3.4.0.0
2021-04-25 22:35:04 +0200gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 22:38:22 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.117) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:38:50 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-25 22:39:46 +0200Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-04-25 22:40:13 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net)
2021-04-25 22:42:45 +0200 <zzz> maerwald: that seems to solve it. thanks!
2021-04-25 22:42:53 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-25 22:45:00 +0200maralorn(maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-taapglyfnhcaxlmi)
2021-04-25 22:45:14 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:bde3:c459:7b57:e4c8)
2021-04-25 22:50:24 +0200royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-04-25 22:52:53 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.35)
2021-04-25 22:56:45 +0200plast1k_(~plast1k_@41.186.25.253)
2021-04-25 22:57:25 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-04-25 23:00:02 +0200ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-04-25 23:02:39 +0200nut(~gtk@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-25 23:02:49 +0200minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.59.190) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-25 23:03:06 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-25 23:05:04 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-25 23:08:27 +0200 <gnumonic> i don't suppose there's any way to have a typelevel $? singletons has one for the (k ~> k) defunctionalizations but it'd be so nice to not have so many parens in signatures
2021-04-25 23:09:34 +0200plast1k_(~plast1k_@41.186.25.253) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-25 23:10:27 +0200 <ski> i'd consider that a specious reason for wanting it ..
2021-04-25 23:13:18 +0200wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-25 23:13:59 +0200supercoven_(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-58c384-213.dhcp.inet.fi)
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2021-04-25 23:38:19 +0200 <remexre> does (fromIntegral . toInteger :: Word8 -> Word16) get optimized to a zero-extend?
2021-04-25 23:38:19 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-25 23:38:41 +0200 <remexre> and if not, are there primitives that do?
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2021-04-25 23:46:16 +0200 <pavonia> remexre: Do you even need the fromInteger?
2021-04-25 23:46:20 +0200ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-25 23:46:37 +0200 <remexre> oh, you're right, I don't need toInteger
2021-04-25 23:46:54 +0200 <int-e> @src fromIntegral
2021-04-25 23:46:55 +0200 <lambdabot> fromIntegral = fromInteger . toInteger
2021-04-25 23:46:57 +0200 <pavonia> Erm *to, yes
2021-04-25 23:47:11 +0200 <int-e> (a lie because of rewrite rules)
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2021-04-25 23:49:30 +0200dsrt^(dsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-04-25 23:49:40 +0200 <int-e> remexre: In the end, yes, it should be optimized to a zero-extend. Though it's not completely obvious even from the corresponding rewrite rule: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/libraries/base/GHC/Word.hs#L418
2021-04-25 23:49:56 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
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2021-04-25 23:50:46 +0200 <remexre> okay, thanks!
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