2021/04/11

2021-04-11 00:00:43 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:02:14 +0200 <hololeap> anyway, just curious which of these has a bigger bandwagon
2021-04-11 00:02:35 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:03:29 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Quit: hendursaga)
2021-04-11 00:03:57 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 00:04:00 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:3171:23f8:d9b8:4bd6) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 00:04:02 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2021-04-11 00:04:43 +0200Rudd0^(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-04-11 00:07:22 +0200 <tomsmeding> hololeap: *> has <* while there is no <<
2021-04-11 00:07:33 +0200gxt(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:07:40 +0200tomsmedingwould like >> and <<
2021-04-11 00:07:42 +0200gxt_(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt)
2021-04-11 00:08:12 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:08:27 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:08:33 +0200 <hololeap> oh, i didn't realize that
2021-04-11 00:08:39 +0200srk(~sorki@unaffiliated/srk) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2021-04-11 00:20:22 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93)
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2021-04-11 00:25:41 +0200lechner(~lechner@letbox-vps.us-core.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 00:25:53 +0200 <gentauro> tomsmeding: you already have `>>` right?
2021-04-11 00:25:58 +0200 <gentauro> that's the `bind` operator
2021-04-11 00:26:22 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 00:26:40 +0200hypercube(~hypercube@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-04-11 00:26:45 +0200pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-04-11 00:27:11 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08)
2021-04-11 00:27:12 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:27:46 +0200 <gentauro> do
2021-04-11 00:28:02 +0200 <gentauro> foo =
2021-04-11 00:28:08 +0200 <gentauro> putStrLn "foo"
2021-04-11 00:28:16 +0200 <gentauro> >> putStrLn "bar"
2021-04-11 00:28:24 +0200 <gentauro> (forget about the first do)
2021-04-11 00:28:27 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 00:30:35 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08)
2021-04-11 00:30:51 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:31:28 +0200hypercube(~hypercube@2603-6011-f901-9e5b-0000-0000-0000-08cf.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:31:36 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 00:31:53 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 00:32:52 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2021-04-11 00:34:22 +0200hypercube(hypercube@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/hypercube)
2021-04-11 00:35:08 +0200 <infinisil> :t (<>)
2021-04-11 00:35:09 +0200 <lambdabot> Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
2021-04-11 00:35:13 +0200 <infinisil> :t (*>)
2021-04-11 00:35:14 +0200 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b
2021-04-11 00:35:17 +0200 <infinisil> :t (>>)
2021-04-11 00:35:19 +0200 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
2021-04-11 00:35:27 +0200 <infinisil> (ignore (<>))
2021-04-11 00:36:32 +0200 <infinisil> Is there a reason >> couldn't be removed from Monad?
2021-04-11 00:37:22 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 00:39:11 +0200 <gentauro> infinisil: why would you remove it?
2021-04-11 00:39:23 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-11 00:39:25 +0200 <gentauro> I use it a lot (I tend not to write with do-notation)
2021-04-11 00:39:34 +0200 <gentauro> therefore I use both `>>` and `>>=`
2021-04-11 00:40:00 +0200puffnfresh1(~puffnfres@119-17-138-164.77118a.mel.static.aussiebb.net)
2021-04-11 00:40:57 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.175) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-11 00:41:19 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.175)
2021-04-11 00:42:31 +0200kaction(~kaction@pool-96-255-101-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:43:25 +0200jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-04-11 00:49:10 +0200 <d34df00d> I prefer *> because less constraints.
2021-04-11 00:50:20 +0200 <justsomeguy> I have a type ''data Three a b c = Three a b c deriving (Eq, Show)'', and an instance for it, ''instance Foldable (Three b c) where { foldMap f (Three _ _ c) = f c }''. Why is it that I can define an instance like ''instance Foldable (Three b c)'' but not ''instance Foldable (Three a b c)''? How do I know which type arguments can't be used, and why?
2021-04-11 00:51:36 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 00:51:46 +0200 <justsomeguy> I see that Data.Foldable has ''type Foldable :: (* -> *) -> Constraint''. What is that?
2021-04-11 00:52:18 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-11 00:53:49 +0200 <justsomeguy> I feel like I'm missing something basic about how kind signatures work, or how to define instances, but I'm not sure exactly what.
2021-04-11 00:55:16 +0200hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-04-11 00:57:37 +0200lgedeon(~lgedeon@185.169.233.10)
2021-04-11 01:05:19 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
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2021-04-11 01:13:00 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:1d08)
2021-04-11 01:13:29 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-04-11 01:15:57 +0200epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
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2021-04-11 01:20:56 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
2021-04-11 01:21:46 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f4c0:2592:d146:5f01)
2021-04-11 01:22:02 +0200 <edwardk> justsomeguy: it'll always peel off arguments from the right. Consider if you could do otherwise. e.g. I might want fmap to map over the left half of a pair or to map over the right half of a pair, and i just call 'fmap (+1) (2,3)' -- which fmap did i mean?
2021-04-11 01:22:29 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-11 01:22:31 +0200 <edwardk> justsomeguy: to ensure that instance resolution is always unambiguous there are no 'type lambdas' that you can use for the instance descriptions.
2021-04-11 01:23:24 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 01:23:25 +0200 <edwardk> Foldable :: (Type -> Type) -> Constraint -- is a way to say that it is a constraint that works on any type constructor of kind Type -> Type. (Type is another way to say *, you can import it from Data.Kind.
2021-04-11 01:23:48 +0200 <edwardk> It might be easier to start with something like Eq :: Type -> Constraint or Ord :: Type -> Constraint.
2021-04-11 01:24:08 +0200epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 01:24:10 +0200 <edwardk> Int :: Type; so we can talk about Eq Int :: Constraint
2021-04-11 01:24:19 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga)
2021-04-11 01:24:21 +0200Guest_96(18e9d4cb@d-24-233-212-203.nh.cpe.atlanticbb.net)
2021-04-11 01:24:38 +0200 <edwardk> that is the type of 'proofs' or 'dictionaries' that Int is an instance of Eq.
2021-04-11 01:24:50 +0200 <edwardk> you use those on the left of => to carry along the constraint.
2021-04-11 01:25:08 +0200 <edwardk> e.g. sort :: Ord a => [a] -> [a]
2021-04-11 01:25:30 +0200haskellstudent(~quassel@213-225-6-101.nat.highway.a1.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 01:25:54 +0200 <edwardk> Going back to your "Three" type. you have Three :: Type -> Type -> Type -> Type; Three Int :: Type -> Type -> Type; Three Int Bool :: Type -> Type
2021-04-11 01:26:12 +0200 <edwardk> now you have something of the right form that you could pass it to Foldable or Functor or Traversable
2021-04-11 01:26:31 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f4c0:2592:d146:5f01) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 01:28:04 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:f4c0:2592:d146:5f01)
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2021-04-11 01:33:03 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-11 01:33:06 +0200 <justsomeguy> Ok, interesting.
2021-04-11 01:33:31 +0200 <justsomeguy> So why is that I can define an instance by ignoring the innermost type variables at all? Shouldn't I have to make a type alias, first, or something, to get rid of the unused type arguments?
2021-04-11 01:34:01 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 01:34:11 +0200 <c_wraith> nah. types are curried, just like values
2021-04-11 01:34:41 +0200 <c_wraith> you can use `map show' without assigning it to a name
2021-04-11 01:37:16 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:e006:3e43:5d26:4dc1)
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2021-04-11 01:52:10 +0200 <koz_> Does {Haskell, GHC} allow _prefix_ operators?
2021-04-11 01:52:22 +0200 <koz_> I assume 'no', but maybe there's some magic-AF extension which does.
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2021-04-11 01:54:16 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-04-11 02:00:04 +0200 <justsomeguy> What would a prefix operator look like?
2021-04-11 02:00:33 +0200 <justsomeguy> Kind of like a function with symbols in the identifier?
2021-04-11 02:01:51 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 02:02:29 +0200HannaM(~quassel@p54849510.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-04-11 02:02:45 +0200 <DigitalKiwi> --koz_
2021-04-11 02:02:59 +0200manicpolymath(49369f53@c-73-54-159-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 02:04:48 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.8) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-04-11 02:08:06 +0200 <koz_> I'm imagining something like a prefix version of 'complement'.
2021-04-11 02:08:22 +0200 <koz_> So instead of writing 'complement foo', it'd be like, '.~. foo' or something.
2021-04-11 02:08:33 +0200 <koz_> But now that I look at it, I can see the issue, lol.
2021-04-11 02:10:36 +0200 <c_wraith> well, inasmuch as Haskell supports postfix operators, it supports prefix operators that return a function. :P
2021-04-11 02:11:29 +0200 <koz_> c_wraith: Wait I don't understand?
2021-04-11 02:12:22 +0200locrian9(~mike@99-153-255-194.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 02:13:03 +0200 <c_wraith> ghc has an extension for postfix operators... that work by slightly liberalizing the section rules such that (foo@#%) is parsed as a section, but need not return a function.
2021-04-11 02:13:19 +0200Iryon(~Iryon@185-12-21-77.sigma.jaslo.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-11 02:13:29 +0200 <c_wraith> You could always main ($*#foo) an expression now. it just has to return a function :)
2021-04-11 02:13:34 +0200 <c_wraith> *make
2021-04-11 02:14:40 +0200mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-04-11 02:15:02 +0200 <koz_> OK, thanks.
2021-04-11 02:16:04 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93)
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2021-04-11 02:40:23 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 02:40:46 +0200hendursaga(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga)
2021-04-11 02:42:09 +0200rprije(~rprije@59-102-63-15.tpgi.com.au)
2021-04-11 02:47:13 +0200dycan(~dycan@101-136-26-146.mobile.dynamic.aptg.com.tw)
2021-04-11 02:56:16 +0200rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqstqfwsmnwqeeor)
2021-04-11 02:57:36 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 02:59:28 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:02:11 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:04:27 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 03:06:22 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 03:07:21 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9)
2021-04-11 03:07:44 +0200average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcrxvnrynryjlrmq) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 03:08:44 +0200Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-04-11 03:09:34 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:10:02 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-11 03:10:58 +0200viluon(uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emtqdjwrdkrvrqyi) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 03:13:25 +0200HarveyPwca(~HarveyPwc@c-98-220-98-201.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 03:15:18 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 03:20:11 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:21:41 +0200 <dmwit> Okay, hallway test: I write `type family Foo a = r | r -> a; type instance Foo (a -> b) = a -> Foo b`. Do you expect this to work or no?
2021-04-11 03:22:18 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-11 03:23:12 +0200 <dmwit> Eh, never mind. I just read the full error more carefully and now I feel silly, because it tells me how to make this work.
2021-04-11 03:23:19 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-04-11 03:23:27 +0200 <dmwit> ghc++
2021-04-11 03:23:31 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:523f:f500:2a94:1071:add3:5a76) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:24:30 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:19e0:30a2:a9e3:a5ad)
2021-04-11 03:25:20 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5278:bf00:7c7:a833:683d:2625)
2021-04-11 03:27:01 +0200hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic)
2021-04-11 03:37:13 +0200geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 03:37:23 +0200kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:4e:3fe1:fdb1:102)
2021-04-11 03:39:50 +0200bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-olzovrbijxmtrnfe) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 03:40:05 +0200roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-78-241-236.dyn.295.ca) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-11 03:41:28 +0200Guest78317(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
2021-04-11 03:43:46 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-11 03:46:49 +0200syntactic_sugar(~amol@192.145.118.113)
2021-04-11 03:47:18 +0200syntactic_sugar(~amol@192.145.118.113) (Client Quit)
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2021-04-11 03:56:34 +0200dariof4(~dario@5.179.150.32) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-04-11 03:57:42 +0200raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-04-11 04:02:27 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-04-11 04:10:50 +0200cansis(uid90033@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tiqdxekqfxdjofcv)
2021-04-11 04:12:30 +0200ep1ctetus_(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 04:12:54 +0200Ishutin(~ishutin@193-110-63-24.cable-modem.hdsnet.hu)
2021-04-11 04:13:48 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-04-11 04:18:38 +0200locrian9(~mike@99-153-255-194.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-04-11 04:22:31 +0200gitgoood(~gitgood@80-44-10-151.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2021-04-11 04:23:08 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-11 04:23:18 +0200tofu2020(6164daf9@097-100-218-249.res.spectrum.com)
2021-04-11 04:24:55 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-11 04:24:59 +0200tofu2020(6164daf9@097-100-218-249.res.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
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2021-04-11 04:30:10 +0200mmmattyx(uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shdhyxoxkigensao) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2021-04-11 04:38:07 +0200gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 04:38:56 +0200yahb(xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb)
2021-04-11 04:39:01 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 04:44:32 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-04-11 04:49:28 +0200theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-055.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 04:50:53 +0200theDon(~td@94.134.91.241)
2021-04-11 04:52:09 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-2-51.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-11 04:52:25 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 04:52:29 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-2-51.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-04-11 04:53:32 +0200FinnElija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-04-11 04:53:32 +0200finn_elijaGuest55303
2021-04-11 04:53:32 +0200FinnElijafinn_elija
2021-04-11 04:55:40 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-04-11 04:56:45 +0200Guest55303(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 04:59:32 +0200jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.57.81) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-11 05:02:12 +0200drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-166.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-04-11 05:02:33 +0200jamestmartin(james@jtmar.me) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in)
2021-04-11 05:02:48 +0200jamestmartin(james@jtmar.me)
2021-04-11 05:04:05 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:19e0:30a2:a9e3:a5ad) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 05:07:02 +0200anandprabhu(~anand@94.203.250.121)
2021-04-11 05:09:00 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 05:09:36 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9)
2021-04-11 05:16:02 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-2-51.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-11 05:17:10 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93)
2021-04-11 05:17:11 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kepeihezzibeebag) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 05:18:05 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.222) (Quit: alx741)
2021-04-11 05:19:42 +0200anandprabhu(~anand@94.203.250.121) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 05:25:12 +0200jlamothe(~jlamothe@198.251.57.81)
2021-04-11 05:26:38 +0200Rudd0^(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 05:31:38 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 05:36:57 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 05:39:26 +0200rekahsoft(~rekahsoft@cpe0008a20f982f-cm64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 05:40:38 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-11 05:41:15 +0200dycan(~dycan@101-136-26-146.mobile.dynamic.aptg.com.tw) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 05:43:45 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-04-11 05:47:17 +0200Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-04-11 05:48:18 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-11 05:51:11 +0200Codaraxis_(Codaraxis@gateway/vpn/mullvad/codaraxis) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 05:58:31 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-11 06:03:00 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-11 06:09:15 +0200iridesce(c036de8c@192.54.222.140)
2021-04-11 06:09:20 +0200 <iridesce> i once saw this website full of haskell and cat memes, does anyone happen to know what i'm talking about
2021-04-11 06:12:31 +0200poscat(~poscat@123.116.69.89) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 06:13:34 +0200ski. o O ( <https://lambdacats.github.io/> )
2021-04-11 06:15:03 +0200poscat(~poscat@114.245.106.173)
2021-04-11 06:15:11 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 06:17:15 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-04-11 06:20:51 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 06:22:09 +0200DTZUZU_(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
2021-04-11 06:23:09 +0200iridesce(c036de8c@192.54.222.140) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-11 06:24:24 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 06:24:27 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 06:32:31 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
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2021-04-11 06:49:24 +0200kaction(~kaction@pool-96-255-101-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-04-11 06:51:05 +0200__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.175)
2021-04-11 06:51:08 +0200jalumar(uid392211@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzluywcotqccmnoo)
2021-04-11 06:52:45 +0200DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
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2021-04-11 06:58:44 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:19e0:30a2:a9e3:a5ad)
2021-04-11 06:59:11 +0200MarcelineVQ(~anja@198.254.208.159) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-11 07:00:35 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 07:01:00 +0200MarcelineVQ(~anja@198.254.208.159)
2021-04-11 07:01:00 +0200MarcelineVQ(~anja@198.254.208.159) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 07:01:35 +0200MarcelineVQ(~anja@198.254.208.159)
2021-04-11 07:02:20 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-11 07:04:20 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 07:05:11 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 07:06:11 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 07:10:04 +0200falafel(~falafel@pool-96-255-70-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 07:10:33 +0200mach1speed(~textual@S0106f0b4d2c39cee.va.shawcable.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 07:10:54 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-11 07:16:41 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-11 07:17:46 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 07:24:01 +0200kaction(~kaction@pool-96-255-101-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 07:25:55 +0200Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-04-11 07:29:06 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9)
2021-04-11 07:30:18 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9) (Client Quit)
2021-04-11 07:36:52 +0200solvr(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-11 07:40:31 +0200idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-04-11 07:40:41 +0200urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2021-04-11 07:40:54 +0200hypercube(hypercube@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/hypercube) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 07:43:01 +0200Guest78317(~laudiacay@67.176.215.84)
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2021-04-11 07:51:54 +0200jathan(~jathan@69.61.93.38) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2021-04-11 07:55:04 +0200bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806e2c400995554712cdb3346.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-04-11 07:59:52 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:42e9)
2021-04-11 08:01:28 +0200gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
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2021-04-11 09:41:54 +0200william_(~william@wsantos.net) ("Good Bye")
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2021-04-11 10:57:55 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-04-11 11:20:44 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Quit: Leaving)
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2021-04-11 11:24:11 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:27:07 +0200puzzleheaded(6d95d822@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.149.216.34)
2021-04-11 11:27:50 +0200Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 11:30:31 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 11:33:08 +0200 <puzzleheaded> Hi, I was wondering, of the Arduino/Processing procedures setup and loop (or draw for the latter), would it be possible to express both those procedures as a single monad?
2021-04-11 11:34:12 +0200 <puzzleheaded> i.e., to express that code in a loop has some simple set up dependency, like setting a GPIO pin to output?
2021-04-11 11:35:01 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:35:33 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:36:09 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 11:37:38 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:38:05 +0200 <puzzleheaded> I've tried doing that, but I get stuck on implementing (>>=)...
2021-04-11 11:40:31 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:41:45 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 11:43:35 +0200rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sytjuaexxvtymrme)
2021-04-11 11:43:53 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2021-04-11 11:46:07 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:47:02 +0200Guest10879(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-94ba-7ce9-66b7-db1b.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 11:48:36 +0200berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-04-11 11:48:42 +0200 <puzzleheaded> Or is that an arrow?
2021-04-11 11:48:51 +0200berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 11:52:09 +0200puzzleheaded(6d95d822@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.149.216.34) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-11 11:52:40 +0200puzzleheaded(6d95d822@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.149.216.34)
2021-04-11 11:57:46 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-11 12:07:21 +0200zeenk(~zeenk@2a02:2f04:a10b:af00:91ba:3645:1cdb:9a75) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-04-11 12:10:21 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 12:14:31 +0200puzzleheaded(6d95d822@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.149.216.34) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-11 12:15:06 +0200bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806e2c400995554712cdb3346.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie)
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2021-04-11 12:33:36 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 12:33:53 +0200Frojoe1(~Frojoe@139.28.218.148)
2021-04-11 12:34:03 +0200Guest32831(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-94ba-7ce9-66b7-db1b.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2021-04-11 13:21:14 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@47.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-04-11 14:52:11 +0200 <hololeap> d34df00d: about your question from yesterday. i realized that what you're probably looking for is `StateT s (MaybeT m) a`, which would expand to `s -> m (Maybe (a, s))`. this encodes the idea that you have two choices: your value 'a' _and_ a new state have been produced, or nothing at all.
2021-04-11 14:52:51 +0200Foritus(~buggery@cpc91316-watf11-2-0-cust68.15-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) .:. <Ashley> my porn is hidden in a folder called "BBC Micro Emulator")
2021-04-11 14:52:59 +0200 <olligobber> is there a command (maybe in cabal) to resolve all the imports and make one big haskell file only depending on prelude
2021-04-11 14:53:37 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-11 14:53:45 +0200 <hololeap> with `MaybeT (StateT s m) a`, you could have this produced without any complaints: m (Nothing, newState)
2021-04-11 14:54:25 +0200 <Philonous> olligobber, You mean inline all your dependencies? Not that I know of, and I'm not sure how that would work, considering some packages have sources written in C
2021-04-11 14:54:28 +0200 <hololeap> which would still short circuit due to the way MaybeT works, but might not be something you want
2021-04-11 14:54:49 +0200fiedlr(~fiedlr@83.148.33.254)
2021-04-11 14:55:25 +0200 <olligobber> Philonous, well, maybe just some dependencies? I need to submit a single source file
2021-04-11 14:55:50 +0200 <olligobber> but the place it will be compiled doesn't have all the dependencies (one in particular which i wrote)
2021-04-11 14:56:42 +0200gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-04-11 14:57:52 +0200 <hololeap> can the source file be a zip or tar.gz ? :p
2021-04-11 14:58:26 +0200 <Philonous> olligobber, Template Haskell also means this doesn't work in general. (It's quite possible that someone wrote a "good enough" script for your use case, but I wouldn't have heard of it)
2021-04-11 14:58:42 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:392f:8948:67b:8e77)
2021-04-11 14:58:51 +0200 <olligobber> nah, has to be a .hs
2021-04-11 14:58:59 +0200 <olligobber> and yeah im using template haskell
2021-04-11 14:59:31 +0200 <hololeap> is this for a class?
2021-04-11 14:59:35 +0200 <olligobber> no, for fun
2021-04-11 14:59:47 +0200 <olligobber> I wrote a very inefficient addition program
2021-04-11 14:59:53 +0200 <hololeap> then why the arbitrary restrictions?
2021-04-11 15:01:18 +0200 <Philonous> olligobber, TH can't use top-level definitions from the same file, only imported, so your idea might fall apart right there
2021-04-11 15:01:51 +0200 <Philonous> OTOH the script could just run the TH and splice the output, so all is not lost.
2021-04-11 15:02:07 +0200TBM_(~guest_wii@86-41-3-16-dynamic.agg2.grs.prp-wtd.eircom.net)
2021-04-11 15:02:09 +0200 <olligobber> yeah, that's what I want it to do
2021-04-11 15:02:10 +0200waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cppcunbrtpbtpgrh)
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2021-04-11 15:12:36 +0200dpl(~dpl@77-121-78-163.chn.volia.net)
2021-04-11 15:13:37 +0200 <olligobber> I guess I don't really need to do it
2021-04-11 15:13:50 +0200 <olligobber> I know it's just going to get TLE or MLE
2021-04-11 15:13:59 +0200Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 15:14:03 +0200 <olligobber> given it's taken 30 minutes to add 77 to 777
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2021-04-11 16:04:45 +0200 <olligobber> oh, I killed 77+777 after an hour
2021-04-11 16:04:56 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
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2021-04-11 16:07:48 +0200 <maralorn> I have a library that returns a Prelude.undefined in some cases and I can‘t do anything about it on the short term. Is there something like defaultIfUndefined :: a -> a -> a to recover from that?
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2021-04-11 16:15:23 +0200 <hpc> maralorn: the spoon package, maybe?
2021-04-11 16:16:05 +0200 <hpc> maralorn: or lub, if you want to handle more than just exception-y bottoms
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2021-04-11 16:50:23 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i7appkeq6vlzis.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
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2021-04-11 16:50:58 +0200 <kuribas> is there a way to generate javascript?
2021-04-11 16:51:02 +0200 <kuribas> I wanted to use Aeson, but that doesn't allow inline javascript...
2021-04-11 16:51:31 +0200dexterlb(~dexterlb@2a01:9e40:2:2::2) (Quit: Boing)
2021-04-11 16:51:45 +0200 <kuribas> Some hack on top of Aeson is also possible.
2021-04-11 16:52:08 +0200 <kuribas> Maybe some clever search replace in the JSON...
2021-04-11 16:53:28 +0200shalokshalom(~quassel@2a02:1748:dd5e:7f60:cf49:8384:7c93:3106) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Komfortabler Chat. Überall.)
2021-04-11 16:55:06 +0200kaction(~kaction@pool-96-255-101-159.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 16:55:11 +0200Alleria(~textual@zrcout.mskcc.org)
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2021-04-11 16:57:51 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
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2021-04-11 17:00:42 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-04-11 17:01:22 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> kuribas: what happens to the generated javascript after it is generated?
2021-04-11 17:01:35 +0200 <kuribas> __minoru__shirae: rendered on a webpage
2021-04-11 17:01:58 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> do you bundle all the javascript into one file, or do you add each script to the page manually
2021-04-11 17:02:26 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> because you can simply create a script and add it to the page manually
2021-04-11 17:02:34 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:03:29 +0200 <kuribas> __minoru__shirae: sadly it has to be in the json
2021-04-11 17:03:42 +0200 <kuribas> __minoru__shirae: http://www.alpacajs.org/docs/api/events.html
2021-04-11 17:04:03 +0200 <kuribas> shatters my idea of a nice declarative UI :-(
2021-04-11 17:05:22 +0200son0p(~ff@181.136.122.143) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:05:50 +0200dexterlb(~dexterlb@2a01:9e40:2:2::2)
2021-04-11 17:09:28 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:10:36 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> kuribas: why generate javascript?
2021-04-11 17:10:57 +0200 <kuribas> __minoru__shirae: did you click the link?
2021-04-11 17:11:02 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> yes
2021-04-11 17:11:10 +0200 <kuribas> there you see the javascript?
2021-04-11 17:11:31 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> I mean, you want something like macros for js?
2021-04-11 17:11:49 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> yes, I see the js there
2021-04-11 17:12:22 +0200 <kuribas> no, I want to generate the javascript
2021-04-11 17:12:54 +0200 <kuribas> I am making combinators for generating these config.
2021-04-11 17:13:10 +0200 <kuribas> Which was nice using Aeson, but the Javascript is problematic.
2021-04-11 17:13:11 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:14:29 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:392f:8948:67b:8e77)
2021-04-11 17:15:14 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> you can parameterize some js function with something that changes and then call that function with different parameters
2021-04-11 17:15:23 +0200hpc(~juzz@ip98-169-35-13.dc.dc.cox.net)
2021-04-11 17:15:24 +0200average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kahrnfsnbzakrhmz)
2021-04-11 17:15:53 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 17:16:17 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> I mean, instead of generating "x + y", you can create function plus(x, y) and then call it
2021-04-11 17:16:37 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> that's why I'm asking: why generate js?
2021-04-11 17:17:09 +0200 <kuribas> I don't how that solves anything...
2021-04-11 17:19:59 +0200 <kuribas> maybe I'll generate some pattern, like "$postRenderFunction$", then replace it in the generated ByteString
2021-04-11 17:22:41 +0200 <kuribas> I could use language-ecmascript-0.19.1.0, but that's not very convenient.
2021-04-11 17:27:16 +0200 <kuribas> oh wait, I can separate the javascript and JSON...
2021-04-11 17:27:52 +0200 <kuribas> then I generate the separately, and just use string concatination...
2021-04-11 17:29:52 +0200raym(~ray@45.64.220.116) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-11 17:31:12 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
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2021-04-11 17:32:08 +0200Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-04-11 17:36:15 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> so you want to generate "json with functions" using something on top of json converter library
2021-04-11 17:36:40 +0200 <kuribas> yeah
2021-04-11 17:38:44 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:392f:8948:67b:8e77) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-04-11 17:39:00 +0200notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 17:39:35 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> I doubt that those libraries provide an API for inlining functions into json
2021-04-11 17:39:58 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-11 17:40:11 +0200aveltras(uid364989@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzwnkfqpsbcsteyn) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 17:41:05 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> what if you approach the problem from the other end?
2021-04-11 17:43:02 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> you can create some translation layer to js, so that you send proper json and then translate it to whatever alpaca wants
2021-04-11 17:43:05 +0200 <kuribas> __minoru__shirae: I'll use ByteString.++ :-)
2021-04-11 17:43:14 +0200rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axpcumsbabjjlcuo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2021-04-11 17:45:49 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> I mean, instead of calling "$("#field1").alpaca({"some json with functions": ""})"
2021-04-11 17:46:11 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> you call $("#field1").alpaca(translate({"some proper json":""}))
2021-04-11 17:46:51 +0200xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5278:bf00:86d4:8676:2f4e:4222) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:46:52 +0200 <__minoru__shirae> the difference is calling "translate" function
2021-04-11 17:47:11 +0200gdude2002(~gdude2002@178.239.168.171) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-04-11 17:48:54 +0200 <kuribas> ah I see what you mean.
2021-04-11 17:49:05 +0200 <kuribas> yeah, that could work
2021-04-11 17:49:40 +0200 <kuribas> I could separate the JSON as much as possible with some custom javascript.
2021-04-11 17:50:07 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@24.105.81.50) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-11 17:50:19 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-04-11 17:51:59 +0200 <kuribas> Then I never need to generate javascript, I just make a single javascript function, which I put into a haskell string.
2021-04-11 17:54:00 +0200 <kuribas> That soulds like the best plan.
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2021-04-11 20:05:52 +0200 <hololeap> is there a compatibility layer between (MonadBase IO)/(MonadBaseControl IO) and (MonadIO/MonadUnliftIO)? i ask because i'm writing a library using the former, but i don't want to alienate users who use the latter
2021-04-11 20:07:03 +0200 <hololeap> i also don't want to alienate users who use The Ladder
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2021-04-11 20:28:24 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 20:28:32 +0200 <solvr> What if Haskell made a few small concessions so the general audience could like it more.
2021-04-11 20:28:49 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93)
2021-04-11 20:28:55 +0200Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2021-04-11 20:29:08 +0200 <maerwald> solvr: like?
2021-04-11 20:30:08 +0200 <thblt> I vote GOTO
2021-04-11 20:30:14 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> concede that python is the superior language
2021-04-11 20:30:37 +0200 <solvr> Something like Erlang's process dictionary. And something like Erlang's processes
2021-04-11 20:30:43 +0200 <solvr> so it looks more OOP
2021-04-11 20:31:15 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> processes are cool, cloud-haskell has a bit of that iirc
2021-04-11 20:31:15 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-04-11 20:31:32 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> *Cloud Haskell (distributed-process)
2021-04-11 20:32:53 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 20:32:54 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-04-11 20:36:42 +0200 <maerwald> isn't that dead?
2021-04-11 20:37:04 +0200 <geekosaur> effectively
2021-04-11 20:38:56 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> yet with untold aeons even death may die
2021-04-11 20:39:06 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> e.g. there's also the option to compile _to_ erlang
2021-04-11 20:39:31 +0200 <solvr> What about compiling to JS
2021-04-11 20:40:24 +0200jalumar(uid392211@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzluywcotqccmnoo) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-04-11 20:40:47 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> ghcjs is the most successful effort for doing that in haskell
2021-04-11 20:41:23 +0200 <solvr> I guess Haskell will never be very popular then
2021-04-11 20:41:58 +0200 <juri_> I hope people will eventually get tired of writing bad imperitive code.
2021-04-11 20:42:04 +0200 <maerwald> very popular means you're flooded with mediocre library maintainers, as can be seen on npm
2021-04-11 20:42:39 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-11 20:42:56 +0200 <solvr> juri_, some imperative code is most suitable between boundaries
2021-04-11 20:43:21 +0200 <maerwald> what's wrong with imperative code
2021-04-11 20:43:43 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 20:43:43 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 20:43:43 +0200chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:b6af)
2021-04-11 20:44:21 +0200 <juri_> it can be useful, but it can also be completely horrible. i like writing pure code, with a small kernel of imperitive code.
2021-04-11 20:44:23 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-11 20:44:37 +0200 <maerwald> that sounds like taste, not an actual engineering concern
2021-04-11 20:44:59 +0200Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.118.65)
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2021-04-11 20:47:15 +0200 <juri_> the ability to reason about code is an engineering concern. pure code is easier to reason about, which tends to lead to better, more maintainable code.
2021-04-11 20:48:14 +0200 <maerwald> Don't think that's true. The problem is shared mutable state. You can tackle that in imperative languages too, see rust.
2021-04-11 20:48:40 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 20:53:08 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@108-201-191-115.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 20:55:17 +0200 <Lycurgus> what is "pure code"?
2021-04-11 20:55:43 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-04-11 20:56:04 +0200 <Lycurgus> the instructions only in a code stream?
2021-04-11 20:56:43 +0200 <dcbdan> me thinks: code that has no side effects. As in, can be expressed like a mathematical function
2021-04-11 20:56:57 +0200mananamenos(~mananamen@62.red-88-11-67.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-04-11 20:56:57 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Excess Flood)
2021-04-11 20:57:01 +0200 <maerwald> simplified: pure code is code where the evaluation strategy doesn't affect semantics
2021-04-11 20:57:08 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-04-11 20:58:11 +0200star_cloud(~star_clou@ec2-34-220-44-120.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-04-11 20:58:15 +0200 <Lycurgus> so it's referential transparency
2021-04-11 20:58:31 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.50.130.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-04-11 20:58:44 +0200BosonCollider(~olofs@90-227-86-119-no542.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-04-11 20:59:00 +0200 <maerwald> the point is that it's not defined for execution
2021-04-11 20:59:03 +0200 <Lycurgus> which sounds like a thing where as "pure oode" sounds like bs
2021-04-11 20:59:33 +0200 <maerwald> so the fact that haskell is pure doesn't actually give you much, because you can pass around IORefs like a madman, can you not?
2021-04-11 20:59:35 +0200 <Lycurgus> asif pure code lacked smells
2021-04-11 21:00:04 +0200AkechiShiro(~AkechiShi@2a01:e0a:5f9:9681:58c8:ec73:6b59:f408)
2021-04-11 21:00:18 +0200 <Lycurgus> asif the pure were the clean
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2021-04-11 22:39:20 +0200 <monochrom> I'm done with letting solvr waste our time every few days with their "haskell should be more mutable" drivel.
2021-04-11 22:39:47 +0200 <monochrom> Next time it will be a ban.
2021-04-11 22:40:48 +0200 <maerwald> oh, was it supposed to be a troll attempt?
2021-04-11 22:41:23 +0200 <monochrom> I can't tell the difference between trolling and lunacy.
2021-04-11 22:41:42 +0200 <monochrom> But it's drivel either way.
2021-04-11 22:42:05 +0200 <monochrom> And it's repeating offence.
2021-04-11 22:42:13 +0200 <monochrom> s/repeating/repeated/
2021-04-11 22:42:43 +0200nut(~user@roc37-h01-176-170-197-243.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-04-11 22:43:06 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93)
2021-04-11 22:43:11 +0200 <maerwald> Popularity is a double edged sword anyway... too much and you have too many mediocre maintainers, too little and you have no ecosystem.
2021-04-11 22:43:35 +0200 <monochrom> Repeated offenders and lenient liberals alike complain about my bans because they don't have state to remember that I don't ban until I see repeaated offense.
2021-04-11 22:43:46 +0200RandomArcher(~RandomArc@90.153.229.57) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 22:44:08 +0200 <monochrom> Oh popularity is just their newest excuse.
2021-04-11 22:44:45 +0200 <monochrom> Previously they cited other excuses to demand mutability such as "interface boundary" and "data structure efficiency".
2021-04-11 22:45:46 +0200 <monochrom> and ""Functional programming is to turn on the light, you need to rebuild your house"
2021-04-11 22:46:27 +0200 <monochrom> and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/21.04.06 search for <solvr>
2021-04-11 22:46:54 +0200 <maerwald> haha
2021-04-11 22:47:01 +0200 <maerwald> that's a good one
2021-04-11 22:48:18 +0200alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.37)
2021-04-11 22:48:42 +0200 <maerwald> maybe it's sophisticated critique about the lack of modular and composable effects systems
2021-04-11 22:49:13 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-04-11 22:49:22 +0200 <maerwald> well, or not...
2021-04-11 22:50:53 +0200malumore(~malumore@151.62.120.195) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 22:51:18 +0200astroanax(~astroanax@cosmic.voyage) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 22:51:49 +0200nckxjorts
2021-04-11 22:51:51 +0200 <monochrom> I once saw a genuinely sophisticated critique. It was from one of the Oz people IIRC. I say that it is genuinely sophisticated because it included a convincing, concrete example.
2021-04-11 22:52:26 +0200zyeri(zyeri@tilde.team/users/zyeri) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-04-11 22:53:14 +0200 <monochrom> The difference between genuine sophisticated critique and lunacy is that the lunatic one just keeps talking and keeps talking bigger and bigger.
2021-04-11 22:53:14 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-04-11 22:53:39 +0200jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2021-04-11 22:53:43 +0200gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-04-11 22:53:43 +0200 <monochrom> Equivalently if it's indistinguishable from a Markov-Mealy machine then it's lunacy.
2021-04-11 22:53:44 +0200m_miro(4c4829bb@76.72.41.187)
2021-04-11 22:53:53 +0200 <monochrom> i.e., armchair philosopher
2021-04-11 22:53:58 +0200 <maerwald> I didn't find it disruptive until now, but I only noticed them today
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2021-04-11 22:56:58 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2021-04-11 22:57:44 +0200 <d34df00d> hololeap: oh, right.
2021-04-11 22:57:55 +0200 <d34df00d> Commuting monads is hard! Let me try to internalize that.
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2021-04-11 23:01:06 +0200ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:05:15 +0200 <m_miro> Excuse me, is it possible to have a data type that contains a definition like:
2021-04-11 23:05:18 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:05:18 +0200 <m_miro> data Custom = Custom Custom | Something
2021-04-11 23:05:40 +0200 <m_miro> and then have a variable  like:
2021-04-11 23:05:57 +0200 <m_miro> myVariable = Something Something?
2021-04-11 23:06:21 +0200 <dcbdan> Do you mean myVariable = Custom Something ?
2021-04-11 23:06:49 +0200 <dcbdan> Something Something does not work, because the Something constructor is just of type Custom
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2021-04-11 23:07:10 +0200 <m_miro> Oh I see
2021-04-11 23:07:24 +0200 <monochrom> Perhaps please don't use the same "Custom" name for two unrelated things.
2021-04-11 23:07:58 +0200 <maerwald> data Custom = MkCustom Custom | MkSomething
2021-04-11 23:08:10 +0200 <dcbdan> ^one 'Custom' is a constructor, the other is a type
2021-04-11 23:08:16 +0200 <m_miro> So if I wanted Something Something I'd have to define Something as Custom?
2021-04-11 23:08:23 +0200 <maerwald> oh dear
2021-04-11 23:08:29 +0200 <maerwald> I'm confused now too :D
2021-04-11 23:08:40 +0200 <monochrom> What is "Something Something" supposed to mean?
2021-04-11 23:08:51 +0200 <monochrom> And why is it so necessary?
2021-04-11 23:08:58 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 23:09:00 +0200 <maerwald> it sounds like an assignment
2021-04-11 23:09:17 +0200 <maerwald> define Something Something
2021-04-11 23:09:49 +0200 <m_miro> "Something Something" is supposed to be to "commands" in sequence
2021-04-11 23:09:52 +0200 <maerwald> Maybe better start with Motivation?
2021-04-11 23:09:55 +0200 <m_miro> it is an assignment
2021-04-11 23:10:19 +0200 <monochrom> OK I want to see the assignment handout verbatim uncut unabridged uninterpreted.
2021-04-11 23:10:47 +0200 <maerwald> just because you want to reuse it :p
2021-04-11 23:11:00 +0200 <monochrom> Nah.
2021-04-11 23:11:27 +0200 <monochrom> It is because every student misinterprets the assignment handout.
2021-04-11 23:11:47 +0200 <monochrom> And/or create a creative chain of XY problems out of it.
2021-04-11 23:11:57 +0200 <monochrom> here "creative" is derogative.
2021-04-11 23:12:06 +0200Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 23:14:11 +0200 <m_miro> here's the assignment
2021-04-11 23:14:12 +0200 <m_miro> https://imgur.com/a/aflD108
2021-04-11 23:14:23 +0200 <m_miro> oh wait it cut it
2021-04-11 23:14:56 +0200 <m_miro> https://imgur.com/a/FZpqSPt
2021-04-11 23:16:15 +0200 <monochrom> I trust that you already understand that you use one data constructor to stand for, for example, "moveto".
2021-04-11 23:16:23 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:16:36 +0200 <monochrom> In the case of "cmd; cmd", you use one data constructor to represent the ";".
2021-04-11 23:18:15 +0200 <monochrom> I trust that you have seen examples where you use "data E = I Integer | Add E E" because it represents "expr ::= integer | expr + expr", "Add" stands for the "+" there.
2021-04-11 23:18:23 +0200 <monochrom> So it's similar for ";".
2021-04-11 23:18:53 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 23:18:56 +0200 <m_miro> Yes I used one data constructor  to stand for "moveto"
2021-04-11 23:19:44 +0200 <m_miro> I didn't think of representing the ";" as a data constructor
2021-04-11 23:20:59 +0200srk(~sorki@unaffiliated/srk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:21:17 +0200 <m_miro> I've seen example like the one you posted it just didn't think to use it for ";"
2021-04-11 23:21:54 +0200 <monochrom> It's alright, C and Python brainwashed you to not realize it.
2021-04-11 23:22:11 +0200 <m_miro> What do you mean?
2021-04-11 23:22:29 +0200 <monochrom> Pascal did it right. Pascal's semicolon is between two commands.
2021-04-11 23:22:56 +0200 <monochrom> You write like "x:=1 ; y:=2 ; z:=x+y", not "x:=1 ; y:=2 ; z:=x+y;"
2021-04-11 23:23:52 +0200 <monochrom> The semantic difference is huge. Pascal reminds you that there is a binary operator for sequential composition, it is a binary operator.
2021-04-11 23:25:38 +0200 <sm2n> confusingly, C has a binary operator for sequential composition (,)
2021-04-11 23:25:44 +0200usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
2021-04-11 23:25:51 +0200 <sm2n> statement-oriented languages are just weird
2021-04-11 23:26:09 +0200 <monochrom> Sapir-Worf would be proud.
2021-04-11 23:26:21 +0200Guest_11(6835dcb6@104-53-220-182.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-04-11 23:26:49 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6)
2021-04-11 23:29:29 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 23:29:53 +0200frozenErebus(~frozenEre@37.231.244.249)
2021-04-11 23:29:55 +0200hendursa1(~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hendursaga)
2021-04-11 23:31:45 +0200 <m_miro> im not seeing the difference
2021-04-11 23:31:56 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-04-11 23:32:04 +0200 <m_miro> is it the "x+y" and the "x+y;"
2021-04-11 23:32:43 +0200 <monochrom> OK, "cmd1 ; cmd2" vs "cmd1 ; cmd2 ;"
2021-04-11 23:33:07 +0200danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:33:20 +0200 <monochrom> If I expressed adding two numbers as "1 + 2 +" people would say I'm crazy.
2021-04-11 23:33:42 +0200 <thblt> Rust has something like that. `cmd1 ; cmd2 ;` evals to (), but `cmd1 ; cmd2` eval to the result of cmd2
2021-04-11 23:33:43 +0200 <monochrom> And that's what people decided to do with sequential-composing two jobs.
2021-04-11 23:34:32 +0200ulfryk(~ulfryk@2a01:4b00:872d:e600:a55a:b8e3:54cc:d8d6) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:35:14 +0200Guest_11(6835dcb6@104-53-220-182.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-04-11 23:35:40 +0200jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-04-11 23:35:51 +0200 <d34df00d> Is there any channel specifically dedicated to numeric haskell in general or repa in particular?
2021-04-11 23:35:55 +0200 <d34df00d> Or best to shoot questions here?
2021-04-11 23:36:03 +0200 <m_miro> so I see the difference, but I don't see its importance
2021-04-11 23:37:10 +0200 <monochrom> The importance is between "I think I'll represent it as Seq Cmd Cmd" and "I think I'll represent it as Cmd Cmd".
2021-04-11 23:38:15 +0200ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55)
2021-04-11 23:40:34 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-04-11 23:43:14 +0200entel(uid256215@botters/entel)
2021-04-11 23:43:32 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:44:41 +0200elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:45:09 +0200xelxebar(~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 23:45:22 +0200Sorna(~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk)
2021-04-11 23:45:27 +0200xelxebar(~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar)
2021-04-11 23:45:31 +0200ajc_(~ajc@69.231.232.79)
2021-04-11 23:45:58 +0200quinn(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 23:46:35 +0200 <m_miro> oh i think i get it now
2021-04-11 23:47:27 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-04-11 23:47:34 +0200 <m_miro> the ";" isnt being used as way to end a "command" but to signal that another "command" is going to be used afterwards
2021-04-11 23:47:35 +0200ajc(~ajc@69.231.232.79) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:47:40 +0200 <m_miro> am i understanding correctly?
2021-04-11 23:48:00 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b950365222184c91f1222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-04-11 23:48:34 +0200Sornaensis(~Sornaensi@102.129.202.233) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:49:41 +0200Sorna(~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:52:28 +0200fendor_(~fendor@91.141.0.248.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-04-11 23:55:52 +0200myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.73.93) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-04-11 23:56:49 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)