IRCBrowse

2021/03/22

2021-03-22 00:00:56 +0100mav1(~mav@ip-88-152-11-222.hsi03.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 00:02:37 +0100Sorny(~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk)
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2021-03-22 00:09:27 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.171)
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2021-03-22 00:14:15 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> We need a new paragidm: mutable functional programming
2021-03-22 00:14:26 +0100 <curl> no we dont
2021-03-22 00:14:35 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> Erlang is kinda there with process dictionaries
2021-03-22 00:14:45 +0100 <monochrom> It is not new at all. Scheme and SML already have it.
2021-03-22 00:14:46 +0100usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-22 00:14:56 +0100 <monochrom> More meta-ly, are you done?
2021-03-22 00:15:10 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> monochrom, well we need it in a way that makes it an official approach, rather than seen as some mix
2021-03-22 00:15:15 +0100 <curl> purity is power...
2021-03-22 00:15:21 +0100 <curl> why dispense of that?
2021-03-22 00:15:35 +0100 <curl> what do you hope to gain that could make up for whats lost?
2021-03-22 00:15:43 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> Perfectly pure water can't even freeze. How'd we make ice-cream then
2021-03-22 00:15:54 +0100 <curl> monochrom: its a troll?
2021-03-22 00:16:08 +0100 <monochrom> I'm planning to ban. Any objection?
2021-03-22 00:16:15 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> :P
2021-03-22 00:16:27 +0100 <curl> i object in principle yes
2021-03-22 00:16:42 +0100 <curl> LogicUpgrade: pack it in
2021-03-22 00:16:52 +0100 <ski> @quote jlf
2021-03-22 00:16:52 +0100 <lambdabot> jlf says: sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from trolling
2021-03-22 00:17:00 +0100 <ski> ;)
2021-03-22 00:17:17 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> I am dumb, I'm very dumb
2021-03-22 00:18:03 +0100 <curl> a discussion on mutable programing doesnt sound bad, but if you cant actually have such a conversation...
2021-03-22 00:18:06 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> But still what if we had a walled-off mutable part of every program. I don't mean via monads, but entirely.
2021-03-22 00:18:21 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> Isolated, but mutable
2021-03-22 00:18:25 +0100 <ski> look into "effect systems" ?
2021-03-22 00:18:33 +0100 <Axman6> LogicUpgrade: we already have exactly that
2021-03-22 00:19:23 +0100 <Axman6> the ST monad gives us honest to goodness mutation, in a guaranteed pure wrapper. Haskell programs actually use it all the time behind the scenes
2021-03-22 00:22:50 +0100 <ski> you could implement `sort :: Ord a => [a] -> [a]', using `ST', e.g., possibly using (in-place) quicksort on a locally allocated array
2021-03-22 00:27:50 +0100 <lechner> Hi, in an interactive example with 'find' from Data.List, typing ':t' returns a Foldable prefix in "find :: Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a" while the expected output from the example should just be "find :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a". Am I using a newer (or older) version of GHCI? What is a Foldable, please? Thanks! http://learnyouahaskell.com/modules
2021-03-22 00:28:44 +0100 <Axman6> a few years ago several functions which used to be list only werre generalised to any foldable
2021-03-22 00:28:57 +0100 <Axman6> % :t Data.List.find
2021-03-22 00:28:57 +0100 <yahb> Axman6: forall {t :: * -> *} {a}. Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a
2021-03-22 00:29:03 +0100 <Axman6> % :t Data.List.find @[]
2021-03-22 00:29:03 +0100 <yahb> Axman6: forall {a}. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a
2021-03-22 00:29:22 +0100 <Axman6> they are the same type when t ~ []
2021-03-22 00:29:40 +0100 <lechner> Axman6: ah, thanks!
2021-03-22 00:30:25 +0100 <Axman6> % :t getFirst . foldMap (First . Just)
2021-03-22 00:30:25 +0100 <yahb> Axman6: forall {t :: * -> *} {a}. Foldable t => t a -> Maybe a
2021-03-22 00:31:11 +0100 <Axman6> % :t \p -> getFirst . foldMap (\x -> First $ if p x then Just x else Nothing)
2021-03-22 00:31:11 +0100 <yahb> Axman6: forall {t :: * -> *} {a}. Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a
2021-03-22 00:31:45 +0100 <lechner> Also, why do I not see parentheses for ":t elemIndex" around (Eq a) as in the example, please? elemIndex :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int (same link)
2021-03-22 00:33:39 +0100heatsink_(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 00:34:11 +0100 <hololeap> lechner: the parentheses aren't required when you have one constraint
2021-03-22 00:34:37 +0100 <hololeap> so, it could be written "Eq a => ..." or "(Eq a) => ..."
2021-03-22 00:34:41 +0100 <lechner> what do they mean, please?
2021-03-22 00:34:44 +0100skiprefers the former
2021-03-22 00:35:35 +0100 <ski> the brackets there are only required/mandatory, when you have multiple constraints, rather than just one, in which case they're optional
2021-03-22 00:36:10 +0100 <ski> @type elemIndex :: ((Eq a)) => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int -- you can add multiple pairs, if you really like to, although it'd look strange and ugly
2021-03-22 00:36:12 +0100 <lambdabot> Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int
2021-03-22 00:36:14 +0100 <hololeap> it means that it takes any type (represented by the type variable 'a'), but the "Eq a" constraint means that the type has to have an instance of the Eq typeclass
2021-03-22 00:36:16 +0100 <ski> > ((42))
2021-03-22 00:36:19 +0100 <lambdabot> 42
2021-03-22 00:36:54 +0100 <hololeap> :i Eq
2021-03-22 00:37:00 +0100 <hololeap> % :i Eq
2021-03-22 00:37:00 +0100 <yahb> hololeap: type Eq :: * -> Constraint; class Eq a where; (==) :: a -> a -> Bool; (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool; {-# MINIMAL (==) | (/=) #-}; -- Defined in `GHC.Classes'; instance [safe] Eq MonoN -- Defined at <interactive>:42:43; instance [safe] forall w (m :: * -> *) a. (Eq w, Data.Functor.Classes.Eq1 m, Eq a) => Eq (WriterT w m a) -- Defined in `Control.Monad.Trans.Writer.Lazy'; instance [safe] forall (f :: * ->
2021-03-22 00:37:05 +0100 <hololeap> oof
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2021-03-22 00:37:34 +0100 <hololeap> lechner, does that make sense to you?
2021-03-22 00:38:31 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
2021-03-22 00:39:01 +0100 <hololeap> in simple terms, it means that the type has to have (==) defined
2021-03-22 00:39:02 +0100 <lechner> so (Eq a, Ord a) would mean ordered with an identity (although Ord prabably implies Eq)?
2021-03-22 00:39:21 +0100 <monochrom> Ord implies Eq.
2021-03-22 00:41:00 +0100 <hololeap> lechner: right, "Eq a" means the type has to have some notion of equal values, and "Ord a" means it has to have some notion of one value being less than or greater than another value
2021-03-22 00:41:22 +0100santiweight(622165e4@c-98-33-101-228.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 00:41:28 +0100 <hololeap> and, yes, you can't make something an instance of Ord without it first being an instance of Eq
2021-03-22 00:42:14 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 00:42:18 +0100 <ski> (because with an ordering, you get equality anyway, so there's no point with not having it an instance of `Eq' as well, in that case)
2021-03-22 00:42:21 +0100 <hololeap> so, you could just write it "Ord a" in that particular case
2021-03-22 00:44:58 +0100juri_(~juri@178.63.35.222)
2021-03-22 00:46:08 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 00:46:56 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 00:49:18 +0100 <SoF> hi, just because I can implement e.g. (for [a]) foldl in terms of foldr, it doesn't mean that they behave the same way for infinite lists, right?
2021-03-22 00:49:39 +0100 <SoF> or vice versa
2021-03-22 00:50:17 +0100 <SoF> *it doesnt mean they behave the same as the canonical implementations of them
2021-03-22 00:50:24 +0100 <Axman6> you can probably answer that yourself if you step through the evaluation. what's your definition of foldl in terms of foldr?
2021-03-22 00:50:41 +0100 <SoF> one that builds a lambda stack
2021-03-22 00:51:00 +0100 <Axman6> can you paste it here, and we'll use it as a starting point
2021-03-22 00:51:22 +0100 <monochrom> Does your "implement" mean "correctly implement", "Incorrectly implement" or "I don't know how correct it is"?
2021-03-22 00:51:22 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-22 00:51:37 +0100 <SoF> foldl f a bs = foldr (\b g x -> g (f x b)) id bs a
2021-03-22 00:51:41 +0100 <SoF> from here https://wiki.haskell.org/Foldl_as_foldr
2021-03-22 00:52:03 +0100 <SoF> considering foldr is a minimal complete definition of Foldable, I assume that foldl is "correct"?
2021-03-22 00:52:19 +0100 <SoF> or at least that there exists a foldl implementation in terms of foldr that is correct
2021-03-22 00:52:24 +0100 <Axman6> ok, now try evaluating it on the list [a,b,c]: foldl f x [a,b,c] = ???
2021-03-22 00:56:18 +0100 <SoF> (\x -> (\y -> (\z -> f z c) (f y b)) (f x a)) x, maybe?
2021-03-22 00:56:32 +0100 <monochrom> Hand-tracing the evaluation is going to be too tedious for too little gain.
2021-03-22 00:56:58 +0100 <monochrom> But you can always design test cases, expecially in the infinite-list case.
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2021-03-22 00:59:43 +0100Chai-T-Rex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2021-03-22 00:59:45 +0100 <monochrom> Well, hand-tracing the first few steps is illuminating. Just not hand-tracing until the end of the world since the list is infinite.
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2021-03-22 02:20:53 +0100hackageaviation-units 0.0.3 - Units of measurements used in aviation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aviation-units-0.0.3 (TonyMorris)
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2021-03-22 02:32:23 +0100hackageaviation-weight-balance 0.0.3 - Weight and Balance structures used in aviation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aviation-weight-balance-0.0.3 (TonyMorris)
2021-03-22 02:36:04 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkauuhiezkyxqudg)
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2021-03-22 02:41:06 +0100 <wroathe> Anyone here familiar with Miso? In particular I'm wondering where startApp and App are defined in the sample application they give: https://github.com/dmjio/miso#sample-application
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2021-03-22 02:41:25 +0100 <wroathe> The only two imports are Miso and Miso.String, and neither of those export startApp or App
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2021-03-22 03:10:36 +0100 <slack1256> What is the correct way of using the language server on a single file? say xmonad.
2021-03-22 03:10:59 +0100 <slack1256> I know I could import xmonad as a lib on a bare project but maybe there is an easier way?
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2021-03-22 03:31:35 +0100 <shapr> slack1256: you could ask on #haskell-language-server ?
2021-03-22 03:32:42 +0100 <slack1256> Nice
2021-03-22 03:33:53 +0100LogicUpgrade(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109) (Quit: Connection closed)
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2021-03-22 03:39:53 +0100hackagehapistrano 0.4.1.3 - A deployment library for Haskell applications https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hapistrano-0.4.1.3 (juanpaucar)
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2021-03-22 05:02:23 +0100hackagesimple-parser 0.2.0 - Simple parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-parser-0.2.0 (ejconlon)
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2021-03-22 06:27:53 +0100hackagehmp3-ng 2.12.0 - A 2019 fork of an ncurses mp3 player written in Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmp3-ng-2.12.0 (galen)
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2021-03-22 06:59:23 +0100hackagesimple-parser 0.2.1 - Simple parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-parser-0.2.1 (ejconlon)
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2021-03-22 08:14:41 +0100Aleksejs_HomeAleksejs
2021-03-22 08:15:23 +0100hackagehspec-core 2.7.9 - A Testing Framework for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hspec-core-2.7.9 (SimonHengel)
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2021-03-22 08:29:39 +0100 <petersen> Is it just mean or did hackage revised .cabal files used to be DOS encoded?
2021-03-22 08:29:52 +0100 <petersen> oops s/mean/me/ hehe
2021-03-22 08:30:09 +0100 <petersen> (I can't "reproduce" it anymore)
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2021-03-22 10:28:34 +0100 <tdammers> could also be a matter of using network line endings
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2021-03-22 10:54:34 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Recently I've played with lexing/parsing libraries in Haskell, and discovered that some people are using `Alex` + `Happy` and some other people are using `Parsec`. Are `Alex` + `Happy` and `Parsec` just different libraries made for the same purpose/usecase? Or they do specialize on different things? How to decide what to use?
2021-03-22 10:57:13 +0100 <Uniaika> timCF: Alex+Happy are for "Parser generation", whilst Parsec/Megaparsec/Attoparsec are parser combinator libraries
2021-03-22 10:57:32 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Alex and Happy are parser generators in the lex/yacc and flex/bison tradition
2021-03-22 10:57:33 +0100idhugo(~idhugo@130.225.16.16) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-22 10:57:52 +0100 <merijn> Parsec and its ilk are parser combinators libraries and more like eDSLs for writing parsers
2021-03-22 10:58:57 +0100idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-117-136-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-22 10:59:27 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Parser generators will, generally, produce more efficient parsers (or, more accurately, they can guarantee that efficiency) while parser combinator libraries are probably easier to get started with
2021-03-22 10:59:51 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Fighting an LALR(1) parser generator is...not fun if you just wanna get something done :p
2021-03-22 11:01:12 +0100 <timCF> I actually did tried Alex+Happy, as excercise with "Modern Compiler Implementation in ML" book. But didn't tried Parsec.
2021-03-22 11:01:42 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Does the term "recursive descent parser" mean anything to you?
2021-03-22 11:03:01 +0100 <timCF> I've just did parser for Tiger programming language, using Alex. Defined AST types, defined lexemes regex, transitions between states.
2021-03-22 11:03:25 +0100 <timCF> But sounds like the same task can be done with Parsec, right?
2021-03-22 11:03:42 +0100 <merijn> Sure
2021-03-22 11:03:54 +0100 <timCF> And preference "what is easier/better" is very personal?
2021-03-22 11:03:56 +0100 <merijn> timCF: I mean, you can do *any* parsing task with parsec
2021-03-22 11:05:27 +0100 <timCF> merijn: thanks for reply!
2021-03-22 11:05:28 +0100 <__monty__> timCF: Note that Parsec is old and superceded by Megaparsec (or Attoparsec if you insist) pretty much. Trifecta's also an interesting take on parsing.
2021-03-22 11:05:32 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Recursive descent parser are an easy way to get started with parsing. They allow for unbounded lookahead, so that makes them easy for weird grammars, but unbounded look ahead also has performance implications. Meanwhile LALR(1) parser generators guarantee max 1 item of lookahead. But that can make adapting a grammar to LALR(1) a PITA
2021-03-22 11:06:21 +0100 <merijn> timCF: There is no fundamental reason that a well-written recursive descent parser would be slower than, say, an LALR(1) generated parser. But writing *good* recursive descent parser may be harder then just using LALR(1)
2021-03-22 11:06:27 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 11:06:48 +0100 <merijn> timCF: Realistically speaking, for "human-sized" source files (max a few thousand lines per file) the performance isn't gonna matter either way
2021-03-22 11:06:57 +0100 <merijn> Disk IO will take longer than parsing :p
2021-03-22 11:08:47 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@62.red-88-11-67.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2021-03-22 11:11:58 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-03-22 11:12:52 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
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2021-03-22 11:14:18 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9545dcff5306019ad0b1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-03-22 11:14:56 +0100 <mananamenos> Hi, is it normal to have something like `newtype App a = App (ReaderT Env M a)` and an extra class with a method which would lift `M` to `App`, so that one could do `M` actions inside `App`?
2021-03-22 11:15:38 +0100 <Rembane> mananamenos: Normal I don't know, but it's definitely a way to handle monad transformer stacks.
2021-03-22 11:16:11 +0100 <merijn> The normal way to handle monad transformers is hide them away in a newtype like that and not expose their existence :p
2021-03-22 11:18:02 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
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2021-03-22 11:20:46 +0100rkrishnan(~rkrishnan@rkrishnan.org) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2021-03-22 11:22:56 +0100azure1(~azure@103.154.230.130) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 11:24:07 +0100 <mananamenos> Rembane, merijn, so regarding my example if I come to such a situacion (where I want do `M` stuff inside `App` monad) it show that I have designed my data type wrong? I shouldnt want/need to use underlying monad's (in this case `M`) actions inside my App?
2021-03-22 11:25:06 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-22 11:25:28 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: The more experience I get with big code bases, the more I'm convinced that "exposing the fact that something is a transformer stack (or it's internals)" is a mistake
2021-03-22 11:25:48 +0100azure1(~azure@103.154.230.130)
2021-03-22 11:26:16 +0100zaquest(~notzaques@5.128.210.178)
2021-03-22 11:26:25 +0100 <Rembane> merijn: Why is it a mistake?
2021-03-22 11:26:46 +0100 <merijn> mananamenos: Usually what I do now is identify common logic subsets (SQL queries, logging, commandline interaction, etc.) boil down each of those to the smallest subset of operations I can. Stuff those in a class and then built everything using that
2021-03-22 11:27:01 +0100 <merijn> Rembane: Leaking implementation details all over your codebase makes refactoring a PITA
2021-03-22 11:27:48 +0100 <merijn> Rembane: Like, I've got a MonadSql, MonadInput, MonadQuery (which is sorta of a higher level querying than SQL) in my codebase and all logic just uses those classes
2021-03-22 11:28:08 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 11:28:20 +0100 <merijn> Rembane: Tweaking (part) of the internal transformer stack now means "update the 3 class instances to match" rather than "touch every part of the codebase"
2021-03-22 11:28:43 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@47.27.93.209.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-22 11:29:21 +0100m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-22 11:29:57 +0100 <Rembane> merijn: That's absolutely true. I have forgotten how horrible it is to change things all over the codebase just to make one simple change.
2021-03-22 11:30:49 +0100 <merijn> Bonus it becomes easier to wrap things
2021-03-22 11:32:00 +0100 <merijn> For example, parts of the code to commandline interaction, which runs in "Input m r" having all my sql/query logic based on a class I can just do "instance MonadSql m => MonadSql (Input m) where ..." and you don't have to lift anything
2021-03-22 11:32:23 +0100 <merijn> The mtl style class approach is great, as long as you don't use the actual classes from mtl :p
2021-03-22 11:33:39 +0100 <merijn> lunch time (well, pre-lunch-time-walk-time)
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2021-03-22 11:36:38 +0100 <mananamenos> merijn, Im quite confused. So I have this base monad `M` in which a library does its stuff (requests, reads params, etc.). But now I have my own set of operations (my newtype App). So there are classes particular like MyDatabaseOps which App implements and so on. However, inside my App I need to do `M` stuff as it and so I caught myself needing to be able to lift `M` into `App`. How should I approach this better then?
2021-03-22 11:36:58 +0100Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@x065156.citg-m.tudelft.nl)
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2021-03-22 11:43:41 +0100dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk)
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2021-03-22 11:48:54 +0100 <frobnicator> do I have to pass flags to ghc for it to first unlit literal haskell?
2021-03-22 11:48:56 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:75fb:cea1:4d26:9157) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 11:49:34 +0100 <frobnicator> if I pass this file (https://termbin.com/s4nv) to lhs2TeX it works fine, but compiling it with ghc gives errors
2021-03-22 11:51:26 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc)
2021-03-22 11:52:04 +0100dandart(~Thunderbi@home.dandart.co.uk) (Quit: dandart)
2021-03-22 11:52:55 +0100ixlun(~matthew@109.249.184.133)
2021-03-22 11:52:57 +0100 <frobnicator> in particular this error: https://termbin.com/5yid
2021-03-22 11:53:28 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-03-22 11:56:42 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck)
2021-03-22 11:57:35 +0100 <frobnicator> ohhh, \begin{code} and \end{code} cannot be indented:(
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2021-03-22 14:38:08 +0100_flow__(~none@salem.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-03-22 14:38:35 +0100unholy(~unholy@212.112.100.83)
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2021-03-22 14:39:58 +0100LKoen_(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-22 14:40:16 +0100unholy_star(d4706453@212.112.100.83)
2021-03-22 14:40:46 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82ce292006dfbe4bba9a6c2dc.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
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2021-03-22 14:42:30 +0100 <unholy_star> Jesus, what a trash! Why are here no replies?
2021-03-22 14:42:33 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 14:43:18 +0100 <maerwald> :)
2021-03-22 14:43:25 +0100_flow_(~none@salem.informatik.uni-erlangen.de)
2021-03-22 14:43:51 +0100ph88^(~ph88@ip5f5af71a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2021-03-22 15:02:01 +0100Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-22 15:04:13 +0100xlei(znc@unaffiliated/xlei) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-22 15:05:52 +0100 <SoF> lol
2021-03-22 15:06:08 +0100Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 15:06:42 +0100xlei(znc@unaffiliated/xlei)
2021-03-22 15:08:52 +0100 <pjb> Sorry unholy_star, I was at the loo!
2021-03-22 15:14:28 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-03-22 15:23:31 +0100roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-58-230-226.dyn.295.ca)
2021-03-22 15:25:19 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-109-157.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-22 15:27:04 +0100encod3(~encod3@45-154-157-94.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
2021-03-22 15:27:12 +0100TheCommieDuck(~mark@79-68-31-106.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
2021-03-22 15:28:01 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252)
2021-03-22 15:28:03 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-22 15:28:31 +0100encod3(~encod3@45-154-157-94.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Client Quit)
2021-03-22 15:28:35 +0100 <jacks2> hi. how can I get ip of the connected client in scotty?
2021-03-22 15:28:40 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> Hey. Can I mimic a type/class hierarchy somehow without fields? I could do it with a Map (i.e. DAG) + Strings, but it doesn't protect me from typos/invalid types, so I wasn't sure if empty types and some sort of type family version would be possible?
2021-03-22 15:29:03 +0100LKoen_(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-22 15:29:13 +0100roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-58-230-226.dyn.295.ca) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-22 15:29:19 +0100 <dminuoso> TheCommieDuck: Can you rephrase the question? I don't follow.
2021-03-22 15:29:51 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-22 15:30:00 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> usage being data SomeRecordType { someType :: String }; isType :: SomeRecordType -> String -> Bool
2021-03-22 15:30:21 +0100 <merijn> TheCommieDuck: You mean like "how can I guarantee a key has an associated value in a map"?
2021-03-22 15:31:33 +0100roconnor(~roconnor@host-45-58-230-226.dyn.295.ca)
2021-03-22 15:31:35 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> let the type universe be {Animal, Cat, Dog, CatDog} and the subtyping relation :>. Then Cat :> animal, Dog :> animal, Catdog :> cat, dog etc...if my 'types' are strings and my 'subtyping' is just lookups in a map, it's fine.
2021-03-22 15:32:40 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> but then function calls like "cat" isType "anmial" (sic) are possible. I was wondering if a variant where I could have data Cat; data Dog; etc would be possible. No inheritance, polymorphism, etc. Some kind of promoted strings?
2021-03-22 15:33:05 +0100 <merijn> TheCommieDuck: Oh, at the type level?
2021-03-22 15:33:37 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> I...guess? Maybe? It's sort of "open sum type, but without any data attached to any of the constructors"
2021-03-22 15:33:38 +0100 <merijn> That's sounds too masochistic for me :p
2021-03-22 15:36:33 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-03-22 15:37:45 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc)
2021-03-22 15:39:58 +0100vicfred(vicfred@gateway/vpn/mullvad/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-22 15:39:59 +0100 <dminuoso> TheCommieDuck: You could use empty typeclasses I guess?
2021-03-22 15:41:23 +0100vicfred(vicfred@gateway/vpn/mullvad/vicfred)
2021-03-22 15:42:38 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 15:43:45 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-22 15:44:25 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> https://gist.github.com/PPKFS/45626a1a7642afaf1817853d3b55819a hopefully this is deciperable
2021-03-22 15:46:00 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
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2021-03-22 15:47:55 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.119.219)
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2021-03-22 15:52:50 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.30.186)
2021-03-22 15:54:32 +0100 <ski> TheCommieDuck : what is it you want to prevent ?
2021-03-22 15:54:43 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> ski: typos, basically.
2021-03-22 15:55:01 +0100 <ski> would `data Class = Animal | CatDog | Cat | Dog' help ?
2021-03-22 15:55:19 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> sadly, it's then closed
2021-03-22 15:55:36 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> thus "open sum type, but without any data attached to any of the constructors"
2021-03-22 15:56:00 +0100 <ski> maybe `Animal' &c. could be classes
2021-03-22 15:56:01 +0100carldd(~carldd@90-224-49-113-no56.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-22 15:56:06 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> (the last bit being why I figured it /might/ have a solution somewhere since it avoids the expression problem)
2021-03-22 15:56:22 +0100 <ski> (perhaps that's what the "empty typeclasses" suggestion had in mind)
2021-03-22 15:56:51 +0100son0p(~son0p@181.136.122.143)
2021-03-22 15:57:02 +0100carldd(~carldd@90-224-49-113-no56.tbcn.telia.com)
2021-03-22 15:58:58 +0100addem[m](addemmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dsozjjkkjhpfifoj)
2021-03-22 16:00:47 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> but surely with empty typeclasses, I'd be needing some weird "isInstanceOfTypeclass" function which, AFAIK, I can't do
2021-03-22 16:01:13 +0100 <ski> i'm not sure how it could work
2021-03-22 16:02:16 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> I could just do the string method but replace string with Types
2021-03-22 16:03:18 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> I just figured maybe what I wanted was some form of type family
2021-03-22 16:03:51 +0100 <ski> (i'm still a bit unclear on what the problem statement is, what kind of things you want to avoid, or what kind of things you want to achieve or model, fwiw)
2021-03-22 16:04:04 +0100Sathiana(~kath@185-113-98-38.cust.bredband2.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-22 16:04:08 +0100 <ski> (dunno where type families would fit into it)
2021-03-22 16:04:33 +0100Sathiana(~kath@185-113-98-38.cust.bredband2.com)
2021-03-22 16:05:21 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> the problem statement is "if I need an [open]
2021-03-22 16:05:44 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> subset of strings, can I somehow use empty data types to avoid typos"
2021-03-22 16:07:19 +0100 <ski> where would empty data types enter the picture ?
2021-03-22 16:07:37 +0100 <ski> hm. i guess your `data Cat',&c. stuff
2021-03-22 16:08:02 +0100 <ski> but that could just as well have been a kind `Type', with type inhabitants `Cat',&c.
2021-03-22 16:08:12 +0100 <ski> (like with `DataKinds')
2021-03-22 16:08:25 +0100 <ski> (or well, i suppose that would bring it back to closed again ..)
2021-03-22 16:08:26 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> rather than SomeRecordType { recordType = "cat" ... } `isType` "animal" I'd have ... = Cat } `isType` Animal
2021-03-22 16:08:56 +0100 <ski> well, `= Cat' there suggests `Cat' is a value
2021-03-22 16:08:59 +0100 <ski> of which type ?
2021-03-22 16:09:05 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> Type?
2021-03-22 16:09:10 +0100benkolera(uid285671@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgsohxtqucnsegam)
2021-03-22 16:09:14 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> recordType :: Type
2021-03-22 16:09:19 +0100 <ski> so you're back to `data Type = Cat | ...' again ?
2021-03-22 16:09:29 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> I meant GHC.Type
2021-03-22 16:09:33 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> (or some equivalent)
2021-03-22 16:09:57 +0100 <ski> i don't think you can pass around the inhabitants of `GHC.Type', as value at run-time
2021-03-22 16:10:39 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> it doesn't seem to throw immediate errors except that it can't automagically derive Show. but
2021-03-22 16:13:11 +0100 <ski> % let frob :: GHC.Type -> (); frob _ = ()
2021-03-22 16:13:11 +0100 <yahb> ski:
2021-03-22 16:13:19 +0100 <ski> % frob Int
2021-03-22 16:13:20 +0100 <yahb> ski: ; <interactive>:63:6: error:; * Data constructor not in scope: Int :: GHC.Core.TyCo.Rep.Type; * Perhaps you meant variable `int' (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ)
2021-03-22 16:13:32 +0100 <ski> not sure how you could actually call `frob'
2021-03-22 16:13:58 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> yeah, think you're right
2021-03-22 16:14:16 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> strings it is, ty :P
2021-03-22 16:20:06 +0100malumore_(~malumore@151.62.119.219)
2021-03-22 16:20:35 +0100Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-22 16:21:41 +0100Major_Biscuit(~Major_Bis@82-169-100-198.biz.kpn.net)
2021-03-22 16:21:43 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:22:32 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.119.219) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:23:06 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-03-22 16:28:25 +0100linarcx(~user@151.241.50.25)
2021-03-22 16:28:55 +0100 <SoF> % :t (.) . (.)
2021-03-22 16:28:55 +0100 <yahb> SoF: forall {b} {c} {a1} {a2}. (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c
2021-03-22 16:29:29 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.79)
2021-03-22 16:30:16 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-109-157.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:30:17 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:31:02 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-109-157.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-03-22 16:32:30 +0100lupulo(~lupulo@163.117.64.56)
2021-03-22 16:33:09 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.176.171)
2021-03-22 16:33:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> :t fmap fmap fmap
2021-03-22 16:33:13 +0100 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)
2021-03-22 16:35:54 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-22 16:40:16 +0100Sorny(~Sornaensi@077213203030.dynamic.telenor.dk)
2021-03-22 16:41:52 +0100LogicUpgrade(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-03-22 16:42:58 +0100Sorna(~Sornaensi@79.142.232.102.static.router4.bolignet.dk) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:43:45 +0100titusg(~user@152.229.6.51.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-22 16:45:59 +0100 <titusg> I have a problem with coverage reports in cabal. I can generate tests using ghc and hpc, all fine, but cabal test --enable-coverage generates an empty report...?
2021-03-22 16:47:29 +0100fendor_(~fendor@178.115.130.44.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-03-22 16:47:49 +0100 <titusg> s/generate tests/run tests/
2021-03-22 16:48:48 +0100 <merijn> titusg: Did you previously run "cabal build" in that directory?
2021-03-22 16:49:19 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 16:49:52 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.165.131.239.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:50:42 +0100cantstanya(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-22 16:51:33 +0100hexfive(~hexfive@50.35.83.177)
2021-03-22 16:51:49 +0100 <titusg> merjin yes I did
2021-03-22 16:53:00 +0100 <merijn> titusg: Can you try nuking dist-newstyle and running "cabal build --enable-coverage" before running test?
2021-03-22 16:53:38 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
2021-03-22 16:54:23 +0100cantstanya(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya)
2021-03-22 16:54:45 +0100 <titusg> merijn: Just tried that, html is generated but no content
2021-03-22 16:54:54 +0100 <merijn> hmm
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2021-03-22 17:33:17 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> is there a standard or w/e to signify a function is partial? Kinda like how julia functions have bar for pure and bar! for mutable functions
2021-03-22 17:34:04 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-22 17:35:30 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
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2021-03-22 17:38:20 +0100 <titusg> TheCommieDuck: that's pure/impure not partial/total isn't it?
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2021-03-22 17:38:43 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> yes, just the only example of a rule of thumb for denoting a function is a certain way
2021-03-22 17:38:54 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> I suppose like how monad transformers are FooT, idk
2021-03-22 17:39:34 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> basically if there's a goto denotation for regularFoo vs partialFoo
2021-03-22 17:40:59 +0100cantstanya(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya)
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2021-03-22 17:41:54 +0100 <lyxia> put a Maybe in its type
2021-03-22 17:43:07 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> Yes, I'm specifically referring to having doFoo :: ... -> Maybe a and then partialFoo :: ... -> a for the cases where it's Just a or complete failure
2021-03-22 17:43:30 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 17:43:39 +0100 <lyxia> so there's your answer.
2021-03-22 17:43:55 +0100 <TheCommieDuck> And my question was if there is a naming convention for partialFoo.
2021-03-22 17:44:45 +0100 <geekosaur> no, sadly
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2021-03-22 17:49:07 +0100 <maralorn> Huh, I just had a really bad idea: What do you think about type directed operator precedence. Whenever the operator precedence is ambiguous but only one interpretation typechecks that one is chosen.
2021-03-22 17:49:51 +0100 <lyxia> I heard lean does that.
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2021-03-22 17:55:19 +0100 <monochrom> yikes
2021-03-22 17:56:29 +0100 <monochrom> Mathematicians have the best designs on write-only notation.
2021-03-22 17:57:23 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.171)
2021-03-22 17:57:37 +0100 <Taneb> maralorn: then defining a new instance could cause a parse error :D
2021-03-22 17:57:52 +0100Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-03-22 17:59:11 +0100 <maralorn> Taneb: Nice
2021-03-22 18:01:22 +0100 <monochrom> I am not bothered by that one. In standard Haskell, defining an instance a second time already causes a type error.
2021-03-22 18:01:31 +0100cfricke(cfricke@gateway/vpn/mullvad/cfricke)
2021-03-22 18:01:36 +0100 <monochrom> or I guess declaration error
2021-03-22 18:03:05 +0100v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.38.71)
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2021-03-22 18:03:45 +0100v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.38.71)
2021-03-22 18:04:10 +0100 <shapr> rkrishnan: hi!
2021-03-22 18:04:32 +0100idhugo__(~idhugo@130.225.16.16)
2021-03-22 18:04:32 +0100idhugo__(~idhugo@130.225.16.16) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-22 18:04:44 +0100edwardkpops in and waves to shapr.
2021-03-22 18:04:46 +0100 <shapr> rkrishnan: hopefully our free time will overlap soon!
2021-03-22 18:04:54 +0100 <shapr> o hi edwardk , how you doin?
2021-03-22 18:04:59 +0100 <edwardk> not too shabby
2021-03-22 18:05:22 +0100 <edwardk> been writing a lot of haskell lately, mostly on discord with folks
2021-03-22 18:05:57 +0100idhugo__(~idhugo@80-62-117-136-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-22 18:06:05 +0100 <shapr> o nice, is there a particular discord?
2021-03-22 18:06:14 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txtivmvabmjkksay)
2021-03-22 18:06:22 +0100 <edwardk> https://discord.gg/dXd3DSt7 "haskell-twitch" is the one i was using when i was twitch-streaming
2021-03-22 18:06:34 +0100 <shapr> I've been writing a lot of Haskell lately myself, but also dipping into category theory, array languages, my usual high voltage electronics
2021-03-22 18:06:45 +0100 <shapr> I'm still hoping this project will set my hat on fire.
2021-03-22 18:06:49 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-22 18:07:15 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
2021-03-22 18:07:34 +0100 <edwardk> my connectivity down here isn't as good and i don't have my greenscreen setup or my second recording machine or my mic, or the hdmi capture thing, so its a bit clunkier than when i was twitch-streaming, but it's what i have
2021-03-22 18:07:49 +0100 <edwardk> nice
2021-03-22 18:08:34 +0100raichoo(~raichoo@dslb-188-100-010-076.188.100.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-03-22 18:08:50 +0100 <edwardk> i've been starting to figure out a nice way to wire up my tensor library from c++ to fast haskell by using horrible template-haskell tricks. that's my array language narrative. yet another iverson ghost
2021-03-22 18:09:24 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2021-03-22 18:09:27 +0100 <edwardk> i did a proof of concept of linking ispc directly into haskell via template haskell quasiquotation the other day
2021-03-22 18:09:53 +0100 <edwardk> replace ispc with cuda and put the edsl for constructing it in one module so i can splice it in another and i think it'd be a decent user experience
2021-03-22 18:10:38 +0100 <shapr> that does sound lovely
2021-03-22 18:10:51 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
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2021-03-22 18:13:47 +0100 <edwardk> it really completely resolves my 'how do i talk to cuda from haskell' issues, because i can just splice in c++ that'll build compute kernels for me without having to laboriously ffi out to something in an external file and stub back over to haskell, etc.
2021-03-22 18:13:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-03-22 18:38:48 +0100TheCommieDuck(~mark@79-68-31-106.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-22 18:39:35 +0100 <ski> let `T' be a type. construct the least (restrictive) type `U' satisfying `T -> U' and `U = U + U + U'
2021-03-22 18:40:07 +0100 <ski> let `T' be a type. construct the greatest (what's an appropriate term here ?) type `V' satisfying `V -> T' and `V = V * V * V'
2021-03-22 18:40:30 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.81.87) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-22 18:41:51 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.81.87)
2021-03-22 18:42:19 +0100 <ski> (very loosely and a bit superficially inspired by "in case this makes you wonder, there *are* abelian infinite groups A with A =~ A^2 (and hence to A^n for all positive), such as the additive group of Z[x], or R (the reals). Way more bizarrely than that, there's an abelian torsionfree A with A =~ A^3 but not =~ A^2. I still need to go back to that paper and unravel all the details, including in an earlier
2021-03-22 18:42:25 +0100 <ski> one it references.")
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2021-03-22 19:10:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: What's the isomorphism R^2 =~ R?
2021-03-22 19:11:28 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
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2021-03-22 19:11:43 +0100 <ski> i didn't ask (but i suppose the one they had in mind was non-continuous, incomputable)
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2021-03-22 19:12:42 +0100 <wroathe> ghcjs is kind of a funny project isn't it... A seemingly huge amount of effort has gone into building it, but documentation and distribution methods seem to be nonexistant
2021-03-22 19:12:53 +0100 <pjb> tomsmeding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve
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2021-03-22 19:17:33 +0100idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-22 19:17:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> pjb: so let I(x) = atan(2pi x - pi), and let [0,1] be a group with x + y = I^-1(I(x) + I(y)), and then for a space-filling curve f : [0,1] -> [0,1]^2 let [0,1]^2 be a group with (a,b) + (x,y) = f(f^-1((a,b)) + f^-1((x,y))) ?
2021-03-22 19:18:29 +0100codygman`(~user@209.251.131.98)
2021-03-22 19:18:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> and then let R^2 be a group with (a,b) + (x,y) = (let (u,v) = (I^-1(a),I^-1(b)) + (I^-1(x),I^-1(y)) in (I(u),I(v)))
2021-03-22 19:18:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> that's the weirdest way ever to claim that R =~ R^2 :p
2021-03-22 19:19:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> or I'm missing something simpler
2021-03-22 19:19:02 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 19:19:24 +0100 <pjb> tomsmeding: yes, something like that. But if you limit yourself to a square, it's easier. You may not need a function as complex as a space filling function.
2021-03-22 19:19:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> ('I' is just an arbitrary bijection between [0,1] and R)
2021-03-22 19:19:34 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc)
2021-03-22 19:20:15 +0100codygman__(~user@47.186.207.161) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:20:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> pjb: yeah if you forget about R and just talk about the unit {interval,square}, you can ditch that whole atan() nonsense
2021-03-22 19:20:19 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-03-22 19:20:21 +0100idhugo__(~idhugo@80-62-117-136-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:20:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> but you still have the space-filling curve then, right?
2021-03-22 19:20:31 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806f8700038660a55983a739f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie)
2021-03-22 19:20:45 +0100elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:20:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> if someone uses "R^2" as a group, I'm not usually assuming they mean via a space-filling curve :p
2021-03-22 19:21:07 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkauuhiezkyxqudg) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-22 19:21:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> along that reasoning, R is group-isomorphic to any set of the same cardinalit
2021-03-22 19:21:20 +0100 <tomsmeding> -y
2021-03-22 19:21:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> anyway, tangent
2021-03-22 19:22:44 +0100Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-22 19:23:38 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
2021-03-22 19:23:52 +0100 <ski> monochrom : "Mathematicians have the best designs on write-only notation." -- ooc, what was this apropos ?
2021-03-22 19:24:00 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2021-03-22 19:25:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/selection/haskell?title=Conversation&events=396546,396547
2021-03-22 19:25:07 +0100elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-22 19:25:38 +0100usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
2021-03-22 19:25:42 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:25:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: forgive me for spamming; what is a "least restrictive type"?
2021-03-22 19:25:53 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.58.223.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-03-22 19:27:51 +0100skinoticed no spamming
2021-03-22 19:28:14 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:28:40 +0100 <pjb> tomsmeding: well, intuitively, I would want to do something like with integers, using the quotient and the remainder, but it may not work with reals. So a space filling curve might still be needed on a finite interval.
2021-03-22 19:28:40 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-22 19:28:45 +0100 <ski> oh, i guess you mean that was the context. i didn't connect them, when reading them
2021-03-22 19:29:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: yes I meant that was the context :)
2021-03-22 19:29:14 +0100gentauro(~gentauro@unaffiliated/gentauro)
2021-03-22 19:29:35 +0100 <pjb> Notably, there are as many reals between ]0,1[ as in the full ℝ set. So space-filling is most probably indicated.
2021-03-22 19:29:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> blagh replace all uses of [0,1] with ]0,1[ in my messages just now
2021-03-22 19:30:22 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.30.186) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-22 19:30:30 +0100 <pjb> |ℝ| = |ℝ²| = 2^ℵ₀
2021-03-22 19:30:36 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.176.171) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-22 19:30:45 +0100Ariakenom(~Ariakenom@2001:9b1:efb:fc00:1c78:a17b:5caa:bd0c)
2021-03-22 19:31:43 +0100ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:31:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> I guess my point is that the claim was "there are abelian infinite groups A with A =~ A^2 (and hence to A^n for all positive n)"
2021-03-22 19:32:10 +0100Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:32:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> but the concept of the product of groups is well-defined, and uses (a,b) + (x,y) = (a+x, b+y), and not some kind of space-filling curve
2021-03-22 19:32:20 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2021-03-22 19:32:30 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : the idea being (a) there's no "junk" (no extra things in the type/set, than what can be generated from the given operations and initial generators); and (b) no "confusion" (no extra identities/equalities/laws hold between elements, apart from those that are required/imposed)
2021-03-22 19:32:33 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-22 19:32:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> I see
2021-03-22 19:33:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> and "satisfying 'T -> U'" means that that function T -> U must be injective, I guess?
2021-03-22 19:33:36 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : so, e.g. given a type `T', the type of (finite) lists on `T' is the least (restrictive) type which is a monoid, and which includes `T' (has a morphism/function from `T' to it)
2021-03-22 19:33:49 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:33:53 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-22 19:33:53 +0100minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@46.34.206.238)
2021-03-22 19:33:59 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.171) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:34:02 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : not a priori, but that would most likely be a consequence, yes
2021-03-22 19:34:29 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.176.171)
2021-03-22 19:35:14 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Why do I get "ghc: could not execute: gcc"? gcc is right there in my PATH. I can run it!
2021-03-22 19:35:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> tomjaguarpaw: how are you running ghc?
2021-03-22 19:35:53 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> cabal v2-build (of the source tree of Cabal-3.4.0.0)
2021-03-22 19:35:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> on what platform are you? (i.e. do you have strace?)
2021-03-22 19:35:58 +0100 <ski> monoid laws require associativity (and neutral element laws), but not commutativity. hence the least monoid including `T' won't here be commutative, except in trivial cases, here `T' having at most one inhabitant
2021-03-22 19:36:14 +0100 <ski> without associativity, you'd get a kind of binary trees
2021-03-22 19:36:18 +0100idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:36:19 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I'm on Linux, and yes I have strace
2021-03-22 19:36:23 +0100v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.38.71)
2021-03-22 19:36:45 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:36:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> tomjaguarpaw: try 'strace -f -o log.txt your-cabal-invocation' and then search log.txt for 'gcc'
2021-03-22 19:37:07 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-22 19:37:55 +0100 <Gurkenglas> IHaskell lets me use jupyter with Haskell. Google Colab lets me use jupyter without good local hardware. Can I use IHaskell on colab?
2021-03-22 19:38:07 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: I know that U + U + U =~ {0,1,2} × U, so I guess the smallest type where U + U + U =~ U is finite products of {0,1,2}
2021-03-22 19:38:33 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:38:46 +0100 <tomsmeding> you can '×' that with T to get the injection t |-> (t, []), but that's not a decent answer I guess?
2021-03-22 19:39:34 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> OK, this is weird. It looks for /home/tom/.ghcup/bin/gcc (/home/tom/.ghcup/bin is on my PATH). Then it looks for /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc (/home/tom/.cabal/bin/ isn't on my PATH). Then it gives up. Am I doing something stupid?
2021-03-22 19:39:53 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:90f:37ea:5699:98fc) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 19:40:15 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I can run gcc. It is on my PATH! How is cabal getting a PATH?
2021-03-22 19:40:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> Gurkenglas: there was a bit of activity a few months ago in trying to get haskell running on cocalc; not sure what came of it
2021-03-22 19:41:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> tomjaguarpaw: try 'cabal v2-exec gcc' and 'cabal v2-exec env | grep PATH'
2021-03-22 19:41:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> you're not running in nix or something wild by any chance? :p
2021-03-22 19:41:35 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : "finite products of {0,1,2}" ?
2021-03-22 19:41:35 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> The former finds gcc
2021-03-22 19:41:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: finite lists, I guess
2021-03-22 19:41:50 +0100mp___(mp@hell.cx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:41:54 +0100 <ski> (and yes, i could have written `U = 3*U' or `V = V^3' instead)
2021-03-22 19:42:14 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Can't see anything obviously wrong with the latter
2021-03-22 19:42:22 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I am not in nix or anything remotely unusual
2021-03-22 19:42:41 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I have no problems compiling anything except this pristine Cabal 3.4 checkout
2021-03-22 19:42:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: {{}} ∪ {1,2,3} ∪ {1,2,3}×{1,2,3} ∪ ...
2021-03-22 19:43:36 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Goodbye)
2021-03-22 19:43:39 +0100 <ski> mhm
2021-03-22 19:44:03 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-22 19:44:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> (s/1,2,3/0,1,2/g but it doesn't matter)
2021-03-22 19:45:23 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:45:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> tomjaguarpaw: _is_ there a /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc, perhaps non-executable?
2021-03-22 19:45:55 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-58-224.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-03-22 19:45:56 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Nope
2021-03-22 19:46:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> you see two ENOENTs?
2021-03-22 19:46:20 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Yes
2021-03-22 19:46:21 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 19:46:35 +0100jmager24(442be8d3@c-68-43-232-211.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
2021-03-22 19:46:37 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Then subsequently it writes out the error message
2021-03-22 19:46:38 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.176.171) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-22 19:47:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> tomjaguarpaw: what if you create /home/tom/.cabal/bin/gcc with the contents '#!/bin/sh' \n 'env; exit 1' and make it executable
2021-03-22 19:47:21 +0100 <tomsmeding> we can hack this
2021-03-22 19:47:25 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:47:39 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> OK, cabal-3.4.0.0 does not have this problem
2021-03-22 19:47:49 +0100tomsmedingwut
2021-03-22 19:47:52 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I was using cabal-3.2.0.0
2021-03-22 19:47:53 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : i'm guessing what i had in mind was `data U = Leaf T | Branch UWithoutT; data UWithoutT = Left UWithoutT | Middle U | Right U'
2021-03-22 19:47:54 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> This is grim
2021-03-22 19:48:02 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:48:38 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:49:04 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Oh great
2021-03-22 19:49:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: you're sure the arguments to Middle and Right should be U and not UWithoutT?
2021-03-22 19:49:44 +0100geekosaurhas had several weird problems with cabal 3.2 that 3.4 fixed
2021-03-22 19:49:49 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Oh great, now that it started working with 3.4.0.0 it started working with 3.2.0.0
2021-03-22 19:49:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> :D
2021-03-22 19:50:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> I hope it stops working again if you remove dist-newstyle/ ?
2021-03-22 19:50:27 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I don't even seem to have a dist-newstyle
2021-03-22 19:50:37 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I cabal v2-cleaned
2021-03-22 19:50:41 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> but it didn't stop working agin
2021-03-22 19:50:44 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> *again
2021-03-22 19:50:45 +0100 <tomsmeding> magic
2021-03-22 19:50:51 +0100nnm(~kvirc@109-252-72-161.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-03-22 19:51:00 +0100tomsmeding. o O ( http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html )
2021-03-22 19:51:13 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Oh, dist-newstyle is a level up
2021-03-22 19:52:07 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Well, that makes no difference
2021-03-22 19:52:19 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I have set my switch to more magic and it won't go back
2021-03-22 19:52:37 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : `U = T + UWithoutT',`T + UWithoutT = U = U + U + U = (T + UWithoutT) + U + U', so `UWithoutT = UWithoutT + U + U' by cancellation
2021-03-22 19:52:49 +0100v01d4lph_(~v01d4lph4@223.233.89.82)
2021-03-22 19:53:22 +0100 <ski> the `T' in `U' being considered as being included in the first of the three `U's in `U' (an arbitrary choice)
2021-03-22 19:53:49 +0100 <tomsmeding> interesting
2021-03-22 19:54:40 +0100 <ski> @let infir 5 /\/; (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]; [ ] /\/ ys = ys; (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : ys /\/ xs
2021-03-22 19:54:41 +0100 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error: ;
2021-03-22 19:54:49 +0100 <ski> @let infixr 5 /\/; (/\/) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a]; [ ] /\/ ys = ys; (x:xs) /\/ ys = x : ys /\/ xs
2021-03-22 19:54:52 +0100 <lambdabot> Defined.
2021-03-22 19:55:09 +0100v01d4lph4(~v01d4lph4@223.190.38.71) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:55:27 +0100 <ski> > fix (\abacaba -> repeat 0 /\/ map succ abacaba)
2021-03-22 19:55:30 +0100 <lambdabot> [0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,4,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,3,0,1,0,2,0,1,0,5,0,1,0,2,0,1...
2021-03-22 19:55:42 +0100 <nnm> https://www.kryptex.org/?ref=67f397d3
2021-03-22 19:55:42 +0100nnm(~kvirc@109-252-72-161.nat.spd-mgts.ru) (Excess Flood)
2021-03-22 19:56:13 +0100nnm(~kvirc@109-252-72-161.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-03-22 19:56:18 +0100 <ski> > fix (\bitCount -> 0 : tail (bitCount /\/ map succ bitCount))
2021-03-22 19:56:20 +0100 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,1,2,2,3,1,2,2,3,2,3,3,4,1,2,2,3,2,3,3,4,2,3,3,4,3,4,4,5,1,2,2,3,2,3...
2021-03-22 19:56:48 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:57:05 +0100 <ski> note that `bitCount' is specified by `head bitCount = 0; bitCount = bitCount /\/ map succ bitCount'. this is vaguely similar to the `U' stuff above
2021-03-22 19:57:06 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 19:58:01 +0100 <ski> nnm : how's that Haskell related ?
2021-03-22 19:58:09 +0100 <monochrom> ski: "write-only notation" = convenience for the writer but taxing on the reader
2021-03-22 19:58:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: they were kicked for 'Excess Flood' right after that message
2021-03-22 19:58:24 +0100 <ski> (i know)
2021-03-22 19:59:03 +0100idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-22 19:59:42 +0100 <ski> monochrom : ah. i was thinking of notations that were also unergonomic for the author (who presumably already knows something about what they're writing)
2021-03-22 19:59:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: UWithoutT is a number of Lefts followed by Middle/Right and a U, so UWithoutT = N × {0,1} × U, where N = {0,1,2,...}. U = T + UWithoutT, so UWithoutT = N × {0,1} × (T + UWithoutT), so UWithoutT = (N × {0,1})^(N \ {0}) × T
2021-03-22 19:59:59 +0100 <tomsmeding> right?
2021-03-22 20:00:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> s/=/=~/g
2021-03-22 20:00:24 +0100John111(~kvirc@109.252.72.161)
2021-03-22 20:00:58 +0100John111https://www.kryptex.org/?ref=67f397d3
2021-03-22 20:01:32 +0100ChanServ+o monochrom
2021-03-22 20:01:37 +0100monochrom+b *!*@109.252.72.161
2021-03-22 20:01:37 +0100John111monochromJohn111
2021-03-22 20:01:49 +0100nnm(~kvirc@109-252-72-161.nat.spd-mgts.ru) (K-Lined)
2021-03-22 20:02:10 +0100remal(~remal@d24-57-234-201.home.cgocable.net)
2021-03-22 20:02:12 +0100monochrom-o monochrom
2021-03-22 20:02:52 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : seems legit (apart from the ` \ {0}' part)
2021-03-22 20:03:37 +0100berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-22 20:03:47 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-22 20:04:19 +0100xensky(~xensky@xengarden.xen.prgmr.com) (Quit: i quit)
2021-03-22 20:04:26 +0100xensky(~xensky@xengarden.xen.prgmr.com)
2021-03-22 20:04:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: UWithoutT has at least one (possibly empty) sequence of Lefts and a Middle/Right before it can even get to the T right?
2021-03-22 20:04:45 +0100xensky(~xensky@xengarden.xen.prgmr.com) (Client Quit)
2021-03-22 20:04:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> and then U = T + UWithoutT = (N × {0,1})^N × T
2021-03-22 20:05:31 +0100a3f(~a3f@chimeria.ext.pengutronix.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-22 20:05:51 +0100 <ski> oh, sorry. i'm confusing myself
2021-03-22 20:07:27 +0100a3f(~a3f@chimeria.ext.pengutronix.de)
2021-03-22 20:07:53 +0100xensky(~xensky@xengarden.xen.prgmr.com)
2021-03-22 20:08:09 +0100tsaka__(~torstein@ppp-2-87-239-227.home.otenet.gr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-22 20:08:11 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@62.red-88-11-67.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-22 20:09:04 +0100frobnicator(~frobnicat@185-227-75-147.dsl.cambrium.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-22 20:09:15 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-22 20:11:44 +0100v01d4lph_(~v01d4lph4@223.233.89.82) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 20:12:08 +0100dcoutts__(~duncan@94.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-03-22 20:28:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: huh, 3 * U = U works out also with U := (N * 2)^N * T, but I do need to use that N + 1 = N
2021-03-22 20:28:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> ( https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vhCcdmMJ )
2021-03-22 20:28:47 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
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2021-03-22 20:30:02 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-03-22 20:30:32 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : fwiw, <https://mathoverflow.net/questions/16180/formalizing-no-junk-no-confusion> btw
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2021-03-22 21:43:50 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-03-22 21:47:12 +0100metaweta(a6461f1c@166.70.31.28)
2021-03-22 21:48:40 +0100 <metaweta> @djinn (a->z)->a
2021-03-22 21:48:40 +0100 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
2021-03-22 21:50:00 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-22 21:52:17 +0100 <ski> @djinn-add type Search z a = (a -> z) -> a
2021-03-22 21:52:28 +0100 <ski> @djinn a -> Search z a
2021-03-22 21:52:28 +0100 <lambdabot> f a _ = a
2021-03-22 21:52:42 +0100 <ski> @djinn Search z a -> (a -> Search z b) -> Search z b
2021-03-22 21:52:42 +0100 <lambdabot> f a b c = b (a (\ d -> c (b d c))) c
2021-03-22 21:55:13 +0100nighmi(~felix@port-83-236-34-206.dynamic.as20676.net)
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2021-03-22 22:01:55 +0100 <monochrom> "is this a monad?" meme >:)
2021-03-22 22:02:06 +0100 <koz_> Butterfly Man rofl.
2021-03-22 22:02:22 +0100wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-03-22 22:02:23 +0100 <koz_> Someone needs to make that, but with a burrito over the butterfly.
2021-03-22 22:02:30 +0100jonathanx(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-22 22:02:34 +0100 <monochrom> hahaha yes
2021-03-22 22:02:51 +0100jonathanx(~jonathan@h-176-109.A357.priv.bahnhof.se)
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2021-03-22 22:13:38 +0100forp(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-03-22 22:13:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> @pf \a b c -> b (a (\d -> c (b d c))) c
2021-03-22 22:13:44 +0100 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: pl bf
2021-03-22 22:13:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> @pl \a b c -> b (a (\d -> c (b d c))) c
2021-03-22 22:13:48 +0100 <lambdabot> flip flip id . (ap .) . ap (.) . (. (ap (.) . flip)) . (.)
2021-03-22 22:14:38 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2021-03-22 22:15:48 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.79)
2021-03-22 22:17:03 +0100jneira(501e65b6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.30.101.182)
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2021-03-22 22:18:50 +0100ddere(uid110888@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-osvdowtbmzcjquma)
2021-03-22 22:19:33 +0100 <tomsmeding> @djinn (a -> b) -> Search z a -> Search z b
2021-03-22 22:19:34 +0100 <lambdabot> f a b c = a (b (\ d -> c (a d)))
2021-03-22 22:20:39 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-22 22:21:19 +0100maerwald(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de) (Quit: gone)
2021-03-22 22:21:25 +0100 <ski> @where impossible
2021-03-22 22:21:26 +0100 <lambdabot> <http://math.andrej.com/2007/09/28/seemingly-impossible-functional-programs/>,<http://math.andrej.com/2008/11/21/a-haskell-monad-for-infinite-search-in-finite-time/>
2021-03-22 22:21:36 +0100maerwald(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de)
2021-03-22 22:21:37 +0100 <koz_> Oh yeah, that's really cool.
2021-03-22 22:22:21 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-03-22 22:49:42 +0100 <bbhoss> I've got a function with a where block with like 10 assignments. is this a smell or anti-pattern? everything is just using built in functions to transform data, and setting names for intermediate states that I process further. the function ends up just returning a combo of the assignments.
2021-03-22 22:50:18 +0100 <dmj`> bbhoss: can you paste your code?
2021-03-22 22:50:42 +0100 <bbhoss> here's a link: https://github.com/bbhoss/instant-runoff/blob/main/src/Lib.hs
2021-03-22 22:51:07 +0100 <bbhoss> It's my first haskell program so I'm sure there's plenty to improve, but that is the oddest looking thing to me. it's pretty dense but everything has good names I think
2021-03-22 22:52:24 +0100 <bbhoss> while you're there the "useless" case kinda bugs me. I really don't need to match on sortedResults. I guess I could do if then else maybe? or is there a better way to apply guards? what I'd like to do is have something like case but just for conditions
2021-03-22 22:52:38 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-22 22:53:32 +0100dan64-(~dan64@dannyadam.com)
2021-03-22 22:53:49 +0100 <bbhoss> tbc I'm talking mainly about tallyRound
2021-03-22 22:56:35 +0100dan64(~dan64@dannyadam.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-22 22:56:57 +0100Raito_Bezarius(~Raito@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2021-03-22 22:57:15 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.79) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 22:58:57 +0100wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50)
2021-03-22 23:00:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> bbhoss: functions can also be defined using guards: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/ESI5suUP
2021-03-22 23:00:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> @src otherwise
2021-03-22 23:00:24 +0100 <lambdabot> otherwise = True
2021-03-22 23:01:09 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-22 23:01:42 +0100 <shapr> I was thinking, for the 20th anniversary of #haskell perhaps I should do another IOHCC
2021-03-22 23:03:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> bbhoss: and I'd probably inline the decomposition of 'leader' and 'second' in 'tally' as follows: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/xJbIc1QE
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2021-03-22 23:03:49 +0100wonko7(~wonko7@62.115.229.50) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-22 23:04:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> shapr: please do
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2021-03-22 23:10:06 +0100conkker(~conkker@unaffiliated/conkker)
2021-03-22 23:12:12 +0100 <shapr> tomsmeding: got any ideas for 20th anniversary of #haskell ?
2021-03-22 23:12:17 +0100 <shapr> it's coming up in a few weeks
2021-03-22 23:12:25 +0100 <shapr> I'd need to recruit some judges
2021-03-22 23:12:28 +0100 <shapr> hmm
2021-03-22 23:16:32 +0100blissful(~blissful@unaffiliated/azuline)
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2021-03-22 23:20:59 +0100 <bbhoss> tomsmeding: thanks, I'll give that a shot
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2021-03-22 23:21:25 +0100 <bbhoss> I guess it feels weird to have so much going on with those 11 lines, but if it doesn't look weird to y'all I'll take it
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2021-03-22 23:22:12 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-22 23:25:48 +0100 <wz1000> what is a IOHCC?
2021-03-22 23:25:57 +0100 <shapr> international obfuscated Haskell code contest!
2021-03-22 23:26:06 +0100 <shapr> I think I last ran one in 2005 or so
2021-03-22 23:26:06 +0100 <wz1000> ah nice
2021-03-22 23:26:54 +0100 <wz1000> would it be legal to exploit compiler bugs?
2021-03-22 23:26:58 +0100 <shapr> of course!
2021-03-22 23:27:20 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-22 23:27:29 +0100 <shapr> you'd get bonus points for that kind of thing
2021-03-22 23:27:33 +0100 <wz1000> which versions of GHC are allowed?
2021-03-22 23:27:49 +0100shaprshrugs
2021-03-22 23:27:49 +0100 <wz1000> I mean, would it be fixed?
2021-03-22 23:28:24 +0100danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-22 23:28:56 +0100 <wz1000> look forward to it
2021-03-22 23:29:05 +0100Vadrigar_(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-22 23:30:02 +0100 <wz1000> I shouldn't have opened that GHC issue, now people will know of my secret weapon
2021-03-22 23:30:10 +0100 <monochrom> More bonus points if the bug is present in a huge range of recent versions. >:)
2021-03-22 23:30:36 +0100 <wz1000> Yeah, I know a fun one that affects everything from atleast 8.4 to 9,0
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2021-03-22 23:32:15 +0100hpc. o O ( a haskell program that tells you what ghc version it was built with, using only compilation bugs )
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2021-03-22 23:41:24 +0100 <monochrom> hahahaha
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2021-03-22 23:50:11 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> shapr: how about classifying the conversations from the archive by subjects and tags
2021-03-22 23:50:35 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> to make them more reachable through search
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2021-03-22 23:51:33 +0100 <wz1000> I would say CPP should be disallowed from the contest at least.
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2021-03-22 23:51:51 +0100 <wz1000> makes it too easy and not that fun
2021-03-22 23:52:10 +0100 <wz1000> its not Haskell anymore
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2021-03-22 23:53:41 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2021-03-22 23:53:54 +0100 <dmj`> wz1000: just peek into rts/ shouldn't be hard to find some bugs
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2021-03-22 23:58:51 +0100 <wz1000> shapr: are entries from previous contests available somewhere?
2021-03-22 23:59:22 +0100 <Axman6> hmm, ehich version of GHC stopped you being able to write unsafeCoerce using IORefs asnd unsafePerformIO