IRCBrowse

2021/03/20

2021-03-20 00:01:56 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 00:05:42 +0100solidus-river(~fuag1@174.127.249.180)
2021-03-20 00:05:54 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:e0d0:506b:db48:8ec8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 00:06:12 +0100 <solidus-river> hey all, i recently read that StateT and WriterT have space leaks / are broken? Is this still true? Where can I find out more
2021-03-20 00:06:35 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
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2021-03-20 00:11:23 +0100hackagehspec-junit-formatter 1.0.0.0 - A JUnit XML runner/formatter for hspec https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hspec-junit-formatter-1.0.0.0 (mjgpy3)
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2021-03-20 00:18:51 +0100 <jackdk> solidus-river: not sure for StateT, but for with traditional WriterT : 1. if you use lists directly, you build up left-associated (++) which are O(n^2) runtime; 2. If nothing is forcing the additions to the writer log as you go, you defer work to the end. You could look at using a WriterT with (DList a) for your w or https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Writer-CPS.html
2021-03-20 00:19:46 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 00:20:33 +0100 <solidus-river> jackdk, thanks, that's a much better explanation than the article gave already.
2021-03-20 00:20:45 +0100 <jackdk> "the article"?
2021-03-20 00:21:09 +0100 <solidus-river> yeah, it was from fp complete but i read it last night and not sure I'll be able to find it again
2021-03-20 00:21:46 +0100 <solidus-river> to it's credit it did link to another article for more info but the only thing written in the entry was "stateT / writerT are fundamentally broken even with the strict versions and have space leaks"
2021-03-20 00:21:51 +0100 <solidus-river> or something along those lines
2021-03-20 00:22:09 +0100 <jackdk> yeah, I believe that I've read that too, but I haven't looked at the guts of the implementation
2021-03-20 00:23:11 +0100mastarija(~mastarija@31.217.23.172)
2021-03-20 00:24:39 +0100 <solidus-river> found it, this was the link
2021-03-20 00:24:40 +0100 <solidus-river> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2012-October/018599.html
2021-03-20 00:24:42 +0100shreyasminocha(~shreyasmi@unaffiliated/shreyasminocha)
2021-03-20 00:24:45 +0100 <solidus-river> its quite old so i thought maybe it was a relic
2021-03-20 00:25:07 +0100 <solidus-river> the hpaste link is expired
2021-03-20 00:25:13 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55)
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2021-03-20 00:27:40 +0100 <solidus-river> how can i understand better why (++) ends up being O(n^2)
2021-03-20 00:28:56 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-20 00:30:06 +0100 <infinisil> Pretty sure it should be O(n)
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2021-03-20 00:33:44 +0100 <solidus-river> more concretely, the pipes tutorial mentions at the end that sequence, replicateM and mapM all work in quadratic time with respect to n but doesn't really explain it. It seems really suprising to me that they would be n^2 so i'm hoping to understand why
2021-03-20 00:33:47 +0100 <solidus-river> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/pipes-4.3.12/docs/Pipes-Tutorial.html#g:10
2021-03-20 00:34:21 +0100chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:a8c8)
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2021-03-20 00:39:12 +0100 <jackdk> it's left-associated (++) in particular. Write out `((([1] ++ [2]) ++ [3]) ++ [4]) ++ [5]` on a piece of paper, and crank through the evaluation by hand. You'll notice that you walk the prefix of the list over and over again
2021-03-20 00:39:47 +0100 <jackdk> whereas `[1] ++ ([2] ++ ([3] ++ ([4] ++ [5])))` is O(n)
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2021-03-20 00:42:35 +0100 <monochrom> You will also need to expand (++) as: [] ++ ys = ys; (x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys)
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2021-03-20 01:01:09 +0100MidAutumnHotaru1(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-03-20 01:01:49 +0100MidAutumnHotaru1(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru)
2021-03-20 01:05:27 +0100 <jackdk> yes, thank you monochrom
2021-03-20 01:05:31 +0100 <hyiltiz> http://ix.io/2Ttt/haskell How do I generalize the isConnected3 function that works for binary state over 3-by-3 grid via pattern matching into m-by-n grid?
2021-03-20 01:06:05 +0100 <hyiltiz> I would very much prefer avoiding any TH magic, but would welcome Applicative or combinatorics style stuff
2021-03-20 01:06:22 +0100ixian(~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-03-20 01:07:44 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 01:08:04 +0100 <hyiltiz> The easiest/brute force method I can think of would check for rows and positive diagonals, and iterate/fold over rows and the transpose of rows
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2021-03-20 02:07:24 +0100 <infinisil> hyiltiz: I recommend recursion
2021-03-20 02:08:05 +0100 <hyiltiz> and more specifically (which kind of recursion with what function over what region)?
2021-03-20 02:08:10 +0100 <infinisil> For one, create functions to shift the grid in the 3 directions (left-right, up-down, diagonal)
2021-03-20 02:09:05 +0100ByronJohnson(~bairyn@unaffiliated/bob0)
2021-03-20 02:09:09 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfbrukjdndkipzwm)
2021-03-20 02:09:12 +0100 <infinisil> Checking whether there's k in sequence then can be done by checking the top-left element, then shifting the grid in each direction
2021-03-20 02:09:17 +0100 <infinisil> And recursing with the smaller grid
2021-03-20 02:09:24 +0100 <infinisil> (and a smaller k)
2021-03-20 02:10:18 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-20 02:11:09 +0100 <infinisil> I guess you might want three functions for the different directions
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2021-03-20 02:12:04 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZO@207.81.119.43)
2021-03-20 02:12:53 +0100 <infinisil> So e.g. you could have `horizontalConnected :: [[P]] -> Maybe P`
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2021-03-20 02:13:55 +0100 <solidus-river> jackdk, monochrom ahh, makes sense, sorry I saw that in between thoughts and never responded :X
2021-03-20 02:14:09 +0100 <infinisil> Or maybe `horizontalConnected :: [[P]] -> Int -> Maybe P` for k
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2021-03-20 02:16:30 +0100 <infinisil> Though not sure what that would return exactly
2021-03-20 02:17:08 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 02:17:17 +0100 <infinisil> I had in mind something like "Returns Just v when the top-left of the given grid has a k-long horizontal sequence of v's"
2021-03-20 02:18:19 +0100 <infinisil> Then that's kind of problematic for recursion
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2021-03-20 02:30:16 +0100 <curl> im trying to write a function which integrates a polynomial against an error surface weighted by dirac-like gausians at interpolant fit points, in order to compute the gradient in order to have the direction of best improvement for the polynomial coefficients to flow along
2021-03-20 02:30:44 +0100 <curl> i have a representation for multivariate polynomials in haskell already
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2021-03-20 04:16:38 +0100edit_21(~edit_21@139.28.218.148)
2021-03-20 04:21:56 +0100 <hololeap> just want to get a quick poll: what's the best alternative prelude for general use?
2021-03-20 04:23:13 +0100ixian(~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269)
2021-03-20 04:27:00 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> relude
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2021-03-20 04:31:48 +0100Garbanzo(~Garbanzo@70.234.205.193)
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2021-03-20 04:36:37 +0100 <Cale> hololeap: The standard one.
2021-03-20 04:37:22 +0100jrqc(~rofl@96.78.87.197)
2021-03-20 04:43:37 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-20 04:43:42 +0100 <hololeap> MarcelineVQ: thanks
2021-03-20 04:43:54 +0100 <hololeap> Cale: i said _alternative prelude_ :)
2021-03-20 04:44:12 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 04:45:33 +0100machined1od(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-20 04:49:09 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-162.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 04:49:53 +0100 <davean> hololeap: fine, 'lens' then
2021-03-20 04:50:15 +0100 <Cale> hahaha
2021-03-20 04:50:45 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-252.citykom.de)
2021-03-20 04:50:53 +0100hackageipa 0.1.0.0 - Internal Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ipa-0.1.0.0 (RoryTylerHayford)
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2021-03-20 05:12:30 +0100 <hololeap> welp, got one serious reply. thanks MarcelineVQ!
2021-03-20 05:12:31 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-20 05:13:23 +0100hackageipa 0.1.0.1 - Internal Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ipa-0.1.0.1 (RoryTylerHayford)
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2021-03-20 05:33:21 +0100nrh^(~hph@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
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2021-03-20 05:33:46 +0100teardown(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-20 05:34:27 +0100 <infinisil> Is there anything to say against enabling a bunch of extensions by default with cabal's default-extensions?
2021-03-20 05:34:40 +0100 <infinisil> That is, only "well-behaved" extensions
2021-03-20 05:35:18 +0100 <c_wraith> It's nice when files are more self-contained.
2021-03-20 05:35:33 +0100dsrt^(~hph@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-03-20 05:36:00 +0100 <davean> More for people dropping by to use a library than its maintainers of course, but it is more clear whats going on
2021-03-20 05:36:40 +0100 <infinisil> I think the extensions that are automatically suggested are mostly good enough for that too
2021-03-20 05:36:57 +0100 <infinisil> When I copy some code from somewhere, I usually just follow ghc's errors about which extensions to enable
2021-03-20 05:38:37 +0100Shiranai(beed0df5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.190.237.13.245) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-20 05:38:39 +0100 <infinisil> Also, enabling "well-behaved" extensions by default, then explicitly enabling naughty ones per-file highlights them more
2021-03-20 05:40:34 +0100teardown(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
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2021-03-20 06:29:23 +0100hackageplace-cursor-at 1.0.0 - A utility for X11 that moves the mouse cursor using the keyboard https://hackage.haskell.org/package/place-cursor-at-1.0.0 (unclechu)
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2021-03-20 07:17:54 +0100dhruvasagar(~dhruvasag@49.207.63.69)
2021-03-20 07:18:08 +0100 <unclechu> hey, can anyone tell me how do i release my package in nixpkgs (in Nix packages repository)?
2021-03-20 07:18:38 +0100kini(~kini@unaffiliated/kini) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 07:18:40 +0100 <unclechu> i see that hackage packages set is autogenerated
2021-03-20 07:18:57 +0100 <unclechu> how does a new package gets in?
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2021-03-20 07:38:21 +0100 <olligobber> unclechu, my guess is that someone on the nix team would have to review and approve your package
2021-03-20 07:38:52 +0100jespada(~jespada@90.254.243.187)
2021-03-20 07:39:20 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 07:39:25 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.183.55)
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2021-03-20 07:42:18 +0100 <jackdk> Surely this is a #nixos question?
2021-03-20 07:43:25 +0100 <olligobber> :t drop <> take
2021-03-20 07:43:27 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> [a] -> [a]
2021-03-20 07:43:30 +0100 <olligobber> yeet
2021-03-20 07:43:46 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
2021-03-20 07:44:26 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 07:45:56 +0100 <dhruvasagar> :t (<>)
2021-03-20 07:45:58 +0100 <lambdabot> Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
2021-03-20 07:47:21 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-20 07:48:36 +0100kini(~kini@unaffiliated/kini)
2021-03-20 07:52:03 +0100 <unclechu> olligobber: but the question is how would i propose to review a package?
2021-03-20 07:52:36 +0100 <unclechu> jackdk: i’m struggling to decide where this question fits better. it’s both related to haskell and nix
2021-03-20 07:52:37 +0100MidAutumnHotaru1(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Quit: Quit 啾)
2021-03-20 07:52:49 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-20 07:52:49 +0100 <olligobber> it's more related to nix than haskell imo
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2021-03-20 08:18:43 +0100 <molehillish> how can this work -> "abc" ++ take 3 "def"
2021-03-20 08:19:07 +0100 <molehillish> sorry ... mistype
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2021-03-20 08:34:03 +0100PIE_pie_
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2021-03-20 08:35:55 +0100 <hyiltiz> infinisil: my grid isn't "positioned" in a coordinate so shifting it probably is going to get ugly; instead I can shift a parametric function that checks from point (x,y)
2021-03-20 08:36:16 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nzuvcbfxghfqqljx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-20 08:36:52 +0100 <hyiltiz> but I /feel/ like there might be a simpler/elegant/smarter way to do it with less verbose code
2021-03-20 08:38:14 +0100tsaka__(~torstein@ppp-94-65-159-35.home.otenet.gr)
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2021-03-20 08:42:21 +0100shad0w_(a0ca254d@160.202.37.77)
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2021-03-20 08:43:14 +0100ixian(~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 08:43:23 +0100 <siraben> molehillish: what would you expect from that expression?
2021-03-20 08:43:32 +0100 <siraben> > "abc" ++ take 3 "def"
2021-03-20 08:43:34 +0100 <lambdabot> "abcdef"
2021-03-20 08:43:45 +0100 <siraben> it may help to parenthesize it like "abc" ++ (take 3 "def")
2021-03-20 08:44:06 +0100shad0w_(a0ca254d@160.202.37.77) ()
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2021-03-20 09:16:26 +0100integral(sid296274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
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2021-03-20 09:17:23 +0100gareth__(~gareth__@104.236.161.134)
2021-03-20 09:17:36 +0100mcfilib_(sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxkxuntlbcnjxsic)
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2021-03-20 09:18:38 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252)
2021-03-20 09:19:12 +0100tekacs(~tekacs@178.79.131.8)
2021-03-20 09:19:29 +0100 <jacks2> hi
2021-03-20 09:19:36 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.183.55) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 09:19:40 +0100 <jacks2> what's the name of that new record extension that will be part of new GHC?
2021-03-20 09:19:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> RecordDotSyntax?
2021-03-20 09:20:06 +0100Nascha_(sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqsppvgkfvtrukbl)
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2021-03-20 09:23:13 +0100Nascha_Nascha
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2021-03-20 09:24:15 +0100 <jacks2> tomsmeding, is that the one? not sure if you're asking me, or answering
2021-03-20 09:24:24 +0100 <jacks2> many were proposed in the past
2021-03-20 09:24:49 +0100 <tomsmeding> jacks2: what does it do, extension are you looking for? :p
2021-03-20 09:25:57 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-20 09:25:58 +0100 <jacks2> makes it easier to access and update records, reducing the need for lens library
2021-03-20 09:26:18 +0100elliott_(~elliott_@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-20 09:26:49 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:1cc6:51f6:aeab:c401)
2021-03-20 09:26:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> jacks2: not sure if it eases _updating_ records, but accessing records can be done using 'r.x' syntax with RecordDotSyntax, instead of the usual 'x r'
2021-03-20 09:26:57 +0100 <jacks2> IIRC it also handles multiple types that share the same field name
2021-03-20 09:27:16 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-20 09:27:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> you can disable generation of selector functions using NoFieldSelectors
2021-03-20 09:27:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> using those together indeed makes it possible to have different records with the same field name
2021-03-20 09:27:55 +0100 <jacks2> it provides no functionality when it comes to updating nested records?
2021-03-20 09:28:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> I _believe_ so, but check the docs
2021-03-20 09:29:20 +0100ixian(~mgold@2002:4a74:ba78:1701:0:ff:fe78:6269) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-20 09:29:39 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-20 09:31:33 +0100ixian(~mgold@terra.bitplane.org)
2021-03-20 09:31:50 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:1cc6:51f6:aeab:c401) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 09:32:55 +0100 <jacks2> yeah, it has nested update syntax
2021-03-20 09:32:59 +0100 <jacks2> setYearTaken c y = c{taken.year = y} -- nested update
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2021-03-20 09:50:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> oooo I see
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2021-03-20 10:13:55 +0100 <jackdk> merijn: you weren't kidding - the "Making a Fast Curry" paper is significantly easier to get my head around. The speed increase is a nice bonus
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2021-03-20 10:49:10 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ()
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2021-03-20 11:14:23 +0100hackagecayenne-lpp 0.2.0.0 - Cayenne Low Power Payload https://hackage.haskell.org/package/cayenne-lpp-0.2.0.0 (srk)
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2021-03-20 11:29:53 +0100hackagettn-client 0.2.1.0 - TheThingsNetwork client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ttn-client-0.2.1.0 (srk)
2021-03-20 11:32:11 +0100 <joel135> does :set -XHaskell2010 increase or decrease functinality compared with no flag?
2021-03-20 11:33:10 +0100cabpa(~cabpa@180.190.168.108)
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2021-03-20 11:35:14 +0100vjacob(~vjacob@217.71.0.65)
2021-03-20 11:35:23 +0100hackagevector-builder 0.3.8.1 - Vector builder https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-builder-0.3.8.1 (NikitaVolkov)
2021-03-20 11:35:26 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysavgnbua1sgfzeu.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 11:35:27 +0100RandomArcher(~isho@90.153.131.244)
2021-03-20 11:36:23 +0100hackagearbtt 0.11 - Automatic Rule-Based Time Tracker https://hackage.haskell.org/package/arbtt-0.11 (JoachimBreitner)
2021-03-20 11:37:11 +0100 <joel135> another question: can i tell stack to enable certain haskell extensions by default in all of my source files ?
2021-03-20 11:37:19 +0100 <joel135> (i guess not)
2021-03-20 11:38:09 +0100 <tomsmeding> joel135: -XHaskell2010 is the default
2021-03-20 11:38:15 +0100 <joel135> oh i see
2021-03-20 11:38:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> joel135: are you using package.yaml?
2021-03-20 11:38:26 +0100 <maralorn> joel135: I think there are a few difference between the Haskell 2010 standard and what ghc treats as Haskell 2010, but I think you still get that differences when you use -XHaskell2010.
2021-03-20 11:38:44 +0100 <joel135> and 98 is the main alternative?
2021-03-20 11:39:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> yes
2021-03-20 11:39:34 +0100 <tomsmeding> a new version of GHC will have -XGHC2021, I believe, which is Haskell2010 plus a number of "common" extensions
2021-03-20 11:39:41 +0100 <joel135> i have stack.yaml and package.yaml
2021-03-20 11:40:10 +0100 <joel135> ok
2021-03-20 11:40:25 +0100 <jacks2> you can specify ghc extensions in cabal file, per project, or in a global cabal file
2021-03-20 11:41:03 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c7a8b00299c2e94c22cc7de.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-20 11:41:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> joel135: try the default-extensions key in package.yaml
2021-03-20 11:41:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> as in e.g. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48376430/enable-package-wide-extensions-in-stack-runghc
2021-03-20 11:42:21 +0100 <joel135> what might the remark ".cabal packages are more fragile in source format" be referring to ?
2021-03-20 11:42:25 +0100kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de) (Quit: ciao kakao)
2021-03-20 11:42:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> stack people that don't like cabal
2021-03-20 11:42:41 +0100kmein(~weechat@static.173.83.99.88.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-20 11:42:50 +0100neiluj(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-20 11:42:50 +0100 <joel135> count me in!
2021-03-20 11:42:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> cabal format requires you to manually add modules to the project, whereas stack+hpack (package.yaml) does that automatically for you
2021-03-20 11:43:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> I guess that's what they're referring to
2021-03-20 11:43:21 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
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2021-03-20 11:46:44 +0100 <joel135> ok
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2021-03-20 13:03:13 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-03-20 13:04:27 +0100ep1ctetus(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net)
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2021-03-20 13:05:31 +0100Kaeipi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-03-20 13:07:15 +0100ariel_(~ariel_@178.239.168.171)
2021-03-20 13:07:50 +0100mastarija(~mastarija@31.217.19.201)
2021-03-20 13:09:43 +0100timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-99-43.cust.tele2.ee)
2021-03-20 13:10:38 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Does anybody know the reason why Functors are called Functors?
2021-03-20 13:19:45 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 13:21:22 +0100 <geekosaur> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functor#Computer_implementations (noting that Haskell's Functor actually represents endofunctors, techniques for representing other categories in Haskell not having been developed at the time)
2021-03-20 13:22:20 +0100RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-20 13:23:52 +0100 <geekosaur> (but I'm really the wrong person to ask about this; problem being nobody else seems to be around/awake)
2021-03-20 13:28:21 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:6075:d116:7f4b:9342)
2021-03-20 13:29:17 +0100RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex)
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2021-03-20 13:38:53 +0100hackageptr 0.16.8 - Abstractions for operations on pointers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ptr-0.16.8 (NikitaVolkov)
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2021-03-20 13:58:23 +0100hackagefuncons-tools 0.2.0.10 - A modular interpreter for executing funcons https://hackage.haskell.org/package/funcons-tools-0.2.0.10 (ltvanbinsbergen)
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2021-03-20 14:18:23 +0100hackagepolysemy-http 0.3.1.0 - Polysemy effect for http-client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-http-0.3.1.0 (tek)
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2021-03-20 14:22:23 +0100hackagenetwork-packet-linux 0.1.1.0 - Types for working with Linux packet sockets https://hackage.haskell.org/package/network-packet-linux-0.1.1.0 (rolsdorph)
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2021-03-20 14:48:52 +0100jneira(501e65b6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.30.101.182)
2021-03-20 14:48:52 +0100martin02(silas@hund.fs.lmu.de)
2021-03-20 14:52:43 +0100HarveyPwca(~HarveyPwc@2601:246:c180:a570:29df:3b00:ad0e:3a06)
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2021-03-20 14:55:52 +0100chewb(~chewb@abii185.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
2021-03-20 14:56:17 +0100 <chewb> hello i get error on import Monad, Could not find module `Monad'
2021-03-20 14:56:53 +0100hackagefuncons-tools 0.2.0.11 - A modular interpreter for executing funcons https://hackage.haskell.org/package/funcons-tools-0.2.0.11 (ltvanbinsbergen)
2021-03-20 14:56:53 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-03-20 14:56:57 +0100 <chewb> full code https://bpa.st/ZY3Q
2021-03-20 14:57:28 +0100Guest78805(62c3ce20@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.195.206.32)
2021-03-20 14:59:58 +0100Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-a433-b15d-87dc-0aaa.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-20 14:59:59 +0100 <peanut__> how about Control.Monad
2021-03-20 15:00:22 +0100AlleriaGuest98765
2021-03-20 15:00:50 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 15:02:21 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2021-03-20 15:04:59 +0100 <ep1ctetus> Hi, I'm trying to figure out some error handling, I want to call 'scrapeURLWithConfig', but I think it can throw a HttpException or a UnicodeException. How do I handle both potential types?
2021-03-20 15:05:21 +0100 <chewb> thx
2021-03-20 15:08:09 +0100polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889)
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2021-03-20 15:11:53 +0100hackageptr 0.16.8.1 - Abstractions for operations on pointers https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ptr-0.16.8.1 (NikitaVolkov)
2021-03-20 15:13:13 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2021-03-20 15:15:51 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-20 15:20:58 +0100Kaeipi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 15:22:14 +0100mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan)
2021-03-20 15:23:30 +0100RusAlex(~Chel@unaffiliated/rusalex) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-20 15:25:38 +0100LogicUpgrade(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-03-20 15:26:03 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> I think functional programming is in a hype bubble. I can tell because when I google "functional programming is bad" all the talks are ironically named.
2021-03-20 15:26:03 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-0000-0000-0000-0874.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2021-03-20 15:26:30 +0100 <LogicUpgrade> But in engineering there's only one certainty: everything that's good has also a bad side
2021-03-20 15:26:34 +0100 <Uniaika> hahaha
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2021-03-20 16:10:23 +0100hackagerattletrap 11.0.1 - Parse and generate Rocket League replays. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rattletrap-11.0.1 (fozworth)
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2021-03-20 16:49:51 +0100 <bbhoss> How much do I need to think about stack depth and tail call optimization with Haskell?
2021-03-20 16:51:18 +0100 <c_wraith> several things: GHC uses the stack for nested evaluation, not fucntion calls. All tail calls are eliminated. And tail calls are usually inferior to guarded co-recursion
2021-03-20 16:51:20 +0100 <Lycurgus> that they are things
2021-03-20 16:52:34 +0100 <c_wraith> So... sometimes tail calls come up. But it's usually more important to focus on preventing nested evaluation
2021-03-20 16:52:41 +0100 <Lycurgus> these days when would you ever "worry" about stack depth, outside of normal programming sensicality?
2021-03-20 16:52:49 +0100 <c_wraith> or rather, deeply-nested evaluation
2021-03-20 16:53:17 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-20 16:53:32 +0100Nik05(~Nik05@unaffiliated/nik05)
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2021-03-20 16:55:20 +0100 <bbhoss> I am coming from elixir, and it does do tco but the last thing you do in a function must be calling itself, otherwise it will add a frame and not optimize. So I’m wondering is there something similar I should watch out for
2021-03-20 16:55:41 +0100 <c_wraith> bbhoss: most of the time it's the wrong thing to worry about. stack frames don't come from function calls
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2021-03-20 16:56:44 +0100 <bbhoss> Like most of the fib examples you see aren’t able to be optimized in elixir, you must add an additional parameter for passing state across calls to make it optimizable. I’ve seen very similar fib Haskell examples and wondered if they’re potentially problematic
2021-03-20 16:57:13 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-20 16:57:13 +0100 <c_wraith> only in that they take exponential time....
2021-03-20 16:57:26 +0100 <bbhoss> Gotcha, that’s cool
2021-03-20 16:57:59 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.117.235)
2021-03-20 16:58:03 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.58.223.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-03-20 16:58:04 +0100 <c_wraith> I mean, they do created nested evaluation, so they do use stack.. but the runtime is exponential in the stack depth, so that's not usually a concern.
2021-03-20 16:58:09 +0100Vadrigar(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-20 16:58:12 +0100 <c_wraith> also, GHC will grow a thread's stack on demand
2021-03-20 16:58:23 +0100 <c_wraith> you really need to work to run out of stack space
2021-03-20 16:58:40 +0100remal(~remal@d24-57-234-201.home.cgocable.net)
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2021-03-20 16:59:19 +0100 <c_wraith> but you *really* need to pay attention to creating nested evaluation
2021-03-20 16:59:28 +0100 <c_wraith> @src foldl
2021-03-20 16:59:29 +0100 <lambdabot> foldl f z [] = z
2021-03-20 16:59:29 +0100 <lambdabot> foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs
2021-03-20 16:59:35 +0100 <c_wraith> look, nicely tail recursive
2021-03-20 16:59:56 +0100 <c_wraith> But that's irrelevant, because it still creates a huge nested expression
2021-03-20 17:00:06 +0100enya[m](enyaismatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmjpjmcajmtxqdme) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2021-03-20 17:00:06 +0100 <c_wraith> actually evaluating the result can be quite slow
2021-03-20 17:00:40 +0100 <c_wraith> (Before GHC started growing the stack when needed, it was an easy way to show exceeding the stack size)
2021-03-20 17:00:47 +0100Vadrigar(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-20 17:00:55 +0100 <bbhoss> Great, yeah I have a list of lists which represent a rank ordered list of votes for candidates. I want to basically do a simple election tally so I need to sum. It’s basically a reduce/fold but I was wondering if I wrote the function myself instead of using fold is it something I’d need to worry with. In elixir reduce/fold handle these tco details where if you roll your own you do need to worry
2021-03-20 17:01:54 +0100 <c_wraith> you don't need to worry about the stack.
2021-03-20 17:02:17 +0100 <c_wraith> but you absolutely need to worry about nested expressions
2021-03-20 17:04:13 +0100 <c_wraith> please understand: Haskell requires you to consider different things. The model is different. If you try to treat it the same as any other language, you'll find the results unsatisfying
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2021-03-20 17:29:53 +0100hackageeio 0.0.0.0 - IO with Exceptions tracked on the type-level https://hackage.haskell.org/package/eio-0.0.0.0 (shersh)
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2021-03-20 17:32:37 +0100 <ski> bbhoss : tail calls are relevant, but not as relevant as in strict languages. often, it may be better to be incremental, rather than bulky (which is forced by being tail-recursive), if possible
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2021-03-20 17:57:53 +0100hackageflatparse 0.1.1.2 - High-performance parsing from strict bytestrings https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flatparse-0.1.1.2 (AndrasKovacs)
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2021-03-20 18:03:46 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-20 18:05:31 +0100 <timCF> Hello! Does anybody know what is the reason behind `Functor` being superclass of `Applicative`, and `Applicative` being superclass of `Monad`?
2021-03-20 18:05:46 +0100Vadrigar(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-20 18:07:04 +0100tomsmedingthinks that 'flatparse' library looks pretty nifty
2021-03-20 18:07:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> timCF: are you asking why those classes exist in the first place, or why they are in that superclass relationship?
2021-03-20 18:08:21 +0100xhlr(~xhlr@static.144.156.216.95.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-20 18:08:51 +0100 <timCF> tomsmeding: why there is such superclass relationship. Why they have to be related this way?
2021-03-20 18:09:13 +0100 <tomsmeding> timCF: because every Applicative would be a Functor anyhow: fmap f x = pure f <*> x
2021-03-20 18:09:50 +0100 <geekosaur> and every Monad would be a Functor anyhow (see liftM)
2021-03-20 18:09:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> and similarly every Monad would be an Applicative anyhow: pure = return; mf <*> mx = mf >>= \f -> mx >>= \x -> return (f x)
2021-03-20 18:09:54 +0100 <geekosaur> @src liftM
2021-03-20 18:09:54 +0100 <lambdabot> liftM f m1 = do
2021-03-20 18:09:54 +0100 <lambdabot> x1 <- m1
2021-03-20 18:09:54 +0100 <lambdabot> return (f x1)
2021-03-20 18:10:19 +0100Beetstra1(~Beetstra@185.204.1.185)
2021-03-20 18:10:24 +0100tomsmedinghopes that <*> implementation typechecks
2021-03-20 18:10:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> :t \mf mx -> mf >>= \f -> mx >>= \x -> return (f x)
2021-03-20 18:10:39 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (t -> b) -> m t -> m b
2021-03-20 18:10:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> yay
2021-03-20 18:11:12 +0100 <hpc> :t return
2021-03-20 18:11:14 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => a -> m a
2021-03-20 18:11:17 +0100 <hpc> :t (>>=)
2021-03-20 18:11:18 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
2021-03-20 18:11:26 +0100 <ski> (<*>) = ap
2021-03-20 18:11:28 +0100 <hpc> i wonder why it decided to name that type variable t
2021-03-20 18:12:14 +0100 <ski> @type ap
2021-03-20 18:12:15 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b
2021-03-20 18:12:22 +0100 <ski> @src ap
2021-03-20 18:12:22 +0100 <lambdabot> ap = liftM2 id
2021-03-20 18:12:34 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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2021-03-20 18:14:06 +0100shutdown_-h_now(~arjan@2001:1c06:2d0b:2312:8dad:96e9:564f:ba6c)
2021-03-20 18:14:07 +0100 <geekosaur> :t let x = x in x -- seems to be the new "default type"
2021-03-20 18:14:09 +0100 <lambdabot> t
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2021-03-20 18:14:58 +0100 <dhruvasagar> who is developing this bot ?
2021-03-20 18:15:03 +0100 <hpc> ah, interesting
2021-03-20 18:15:13 +0100 <dhruvasagar> I hope it's build in haskell :)
2021-03-20 18:15:36 +0100 <Uniaika> dredozubov: yep
2021-03-20 18:15:59 +0100 <dhruvasagar> Uniaika: I am assuming you meant that for me
2021-03-20 18:16:10 +0100timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-99-43.cust.tele2.ee) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-20 18:17:10 +0100 <Uniaika> damnit
2021-03-20 18:17:10 +0100 <Uniaika> yes
2021-03-20 18:17:12 +0100 <Uniaika> sorry
2021-03-20 18:17:14 +0100 <Uniaika> >_>
2021-03-20 18:17:39 +0100 <hpc> @hackage lambdabot -- dhruvasagar
2021-03-20 18:17:39 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lambdabot -- dhruvasagar
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2021-03-20 18:36:33 +0100 <dhruvasagar> hpc: thanks
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2021-03-20 18:49:53 +0100hackagestreaming-nonempty 0.1.0.0 - Add support for non empty streams to Streaming lib https://hackage.haskell.org/package/streaming-nonempty-0.1.0.0 (PaoloVeronelli)
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2021-03-20 19:54:54 +0100hackagepolysemy-http 0.4.0.0 - Polysemy effect for http-client https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-http-0.4.0.0 (tek)
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2021-03-20 20:03:23 +0100hackageplace-cursor-at 1.0.1 - A utility for X11 that moves the mouse cursor using the keyboard https://hackage.haskell.org/package/place-cursor-at-1.0.1 (unclechu)
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2021-03-20 20:13:24 +0100 <gentauro> this `ghc-vis` is kind of amazing :o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDzg-e3OSz8
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2021-03-20 20:25:59 +0100 <tempate> Hello there. This is my very first Haskell program: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tbitwLuL . It's from Advent of Code 2020, day 1. It would be great if I could get some feedback on what to improve and how to do things in a more haskellian way.
2021-03-20 20:26:31 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-20 20:27:24 +0100ajc(~ajc@69.231.232.79) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 20:28:10 +0100 <ski> tempate : use guards instead of `if'-`then'-`else' ?
2021-03-20 20:28:53 +0100 <ski> personally, i would definitely remove all `$'s, except maybe the ones directly after `putStrLn'
2021-03-20 20:29:22 +0100 <tempate> ski: oh, right, guards seem reasonable
2021-03-20 20:29:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> tempate: kind of unrelated to the programming language, but I believe your 'star1' is quadratic in the length of the input list, and 'star2' is cubic
2021-03-20 20:29:33 +0100 <ski> (brackets are nothing to be afraid of. and `(map read $ lines contents)' doesn't even have less brackets than `map read (lines contents)')
2021-03-20 20:29:38 +0100 <tempate> ski: may I ask why would you remove all the $s?
2021-03-20 20:29:41 +0100 <tomsmeding> there are faster algorithms :)
2021-03-20 20:29:50 +0100 <ski> tempate : because they look ugly, imho
2021-03-20 20:30:29 +0100 <ski> (and, for newbies, may indicate thinking that "avoiding brackets" is something to strive for, in itself)
2021-03-20 20:30:31 +0100 <tempate> tomsmeding: yes, I'm aware. I was trying to get a very simple version in to see how I did.
2021-03-20 20:31:25 +0100 <tempate> I've been told that in Haskell it's usually idiomatic to use small names, so would it be better to replace (first:numbers) with (x:xs), for instance?
2021-03-20 20:31:28 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-20 20:31:56 +0100 <ski> tempate : instead of `/= Nothing', better to use pattern-matching (or `isJust'/`isNothing', if you must)
2021-03-20 20:33:04 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.115.129.42.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 20:33:05 +0100 <ski> tempate : reasonable length of names depend on the scope of the names, and also on how general they are. e.g. `object' or `value' isn't really any better than `x'
2021-03-20 20:33:24 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-20 20:33:55 +0100 <ski> for numbers, at least integers, i'd commonly use `n' or `m'
2021-03-20 20:34:06 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-03-20 20:34:26 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-03-20 20:34:44 +0100 <ski> it's possible to replace the type ascription in the definition of `numbers' in `main', with a type signature, if you'd prefer that
2021-03-20 20:35:15 +0100 <ski> `star2' doesn't handle the empty list. is that intended ?
2021-03-20 20:35:34 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:6075:d116:7f4b:9342) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 20:36:24 +0100 <ski> (usually, if reasonable, it's better to allow trivial/vacuous/dummy/null cases. can be more flexible, may lead to more laws to refactor and reason with. can improve DRY)
2021-03-20 20:36:55 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xsbczufuwcygdtaj)
2021-03-20 20:37:29 +0100 <ski> seeing `fromJust' (and similar partial functions) is usually a code smell
2021-03-20 20:37:48 +0100 <tomsmeding> % star1' numbers target = listToMaybe [x * (target - x) | x:xs <- tails numbers, target - x `elem` xs]
2021-03-20 20:37:48 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2021-03-20 20:38:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> % star1' [1,5,3,4,2,3,4,3] 5
2021-03-20 20:38:00 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding: Just 4
2021-03-20 20:38:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> % 1 * 4
2021-03-20 20:38:06 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding: 4
2021-03-20 20:38:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> well it's shorter :p
2021-03-20 20:38:20 +0100 <ski> `x:xs <- tails numbers' is a nice trick :)
2021-03-20 20:38:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> yes I was messing around with `zip numbers (tail (tails numbers))` but then I was like, wait, there was this trick :)
2021-03-20 20:39:11 +0100 <tempate> Alright, how is this for version 2: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/1kzTAk3u ?
2021-03-20 20:39:15 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.115.129.42.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-03-20 20:39:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> tempate: I find your second version quite a bit more readable than the first
2021-03-20 20:40:05 +0100skiconcurs
2021-03-20 20:40:26 +0100 <tempate> ski: oh, right, I didn't consider the empty list in star2 'cus it'll never happen
2021-03-20 20:40:28 +0100 <ski> (oh, i'd write `IO ()', i suppose)
2021-03-20 20:40:46 +0100 <tempate> oh, ok
2021-03-20 20:40:51 +0100 <ski> > lines ""
2021-03-20 20:40:53 +0100 <lambdabot> []
2021-03-20 20:41:08 +0100 <ski> it would happen, with empty standard input
2021-03-20 20:41:35 +0100cyphase(~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) (Quit: cyphase.com)
2021-03-20 20:41:49 +0100 <tempate> I know this is trivial, but should I handle the empty list before or after the non-trivial case?
2021-03-20 20:41:59 +0100 <ski> (perhaps there's a precondition in the task that that won't happen)
2021-03-20 20:42:18 +0100 <ski> i usually handle the empty case, or base case(s), first
2021-03-20 20:42:34 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-20 20:42:37 +0100 <ski> they're commonly shorter than the recursive case(s)
2021-03-20 20:43:20 +0100 <tempate> Alright
2021-03-20 20:43:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> gentauro: fancy!
2021-03-20 20:43:39 +0100 <ski> if you want to think of the recursion as effecting a kind of loop, then what you're doing here is more akin to a `while' loop anyway, and in that case the termination condition is also upfront
2021-03-20 20:44:21 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 20:44:26 +0100 <ski> (sometimes people put the base case last, i guess because they think of it as "this will happen last, at the end of the list". however, e.g. for trees, there's no single "end", there's many leaves)
2021-03-20 20:44:39 +0100 <ski> @src zip
2021-03-20 20:44:39 +0100 <lambdabot> zip (a:as) (b:bs) = (a,b) : zip as bs
2021-03-20 20:44:39 +0100 <lambdabot> zip _ _ = []
2021-03-20 20:45:32 +0100 <ski> is an example where the base case is last, because here the ordering actually matters, due to the defining equations having overlapping definienda, and Haskell picking the first one that matches
2021-03-20 20:45:49 +0100 <tempate> Hmmm
2021-03-20 20:45:50 +0100 <ski> (that is a debatable choice, but it's now how Haskell works)
2021-03-20 20:45:53 +0100remal(~remal@d24-57-234-201.home.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-20 20:46:16 +0100ft(~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de)
2021-03-20 20:47:18 +0100 <tempate> Alright, fantastic
2021-03-20 20:47:35 +0100tomsmeding. o O ( Hmm, definienda -- "things that must be defined" if I remember my Latin correctly; I'd just use 'patterns', I think )
2021-03-20 20:47:52 +0100LogicUpgrade(57e3c46d@87.227.196.109)
2021-03-20 20:47:55 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-20 20:48:09 +0100 <tempate> For consistency this is my third and final version: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/prQ6OOAe
2021-03-20 20:48:15 +0100 <tempate> I'm going to move to another problem now
2021-03-20 20:48:22 +0100 <tempate> Thank you both very much for your help
2021-03-20 20:48:24 +0100 <ski> `a:as' and `b:bs' are patterns there. `zip (a:as) (b:bs)' is the definiendum ("what is to be defined"). `(a,b) : zip as bs' is the definiens ("what it's defined to be/mean")
2021-03-20 20:49:06 +0100 <ski> (this is an indirect definition, since we're defining `zip', by way of defining what is the result of applying it, to every possible input)
2021-03-20 20:49:24 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806855300b098de2ef1518cac.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-20 20:49:49 +0100skijust likes some such latin terms :p
2021-03-20 20:50:08 +0100mikoto-chan(~anass@gateway/tor-sasl/mikoto-chan) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-20 20:50:20 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
2021-03-20 20:50:24 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2021-03-20 20:50:29 +0100 <ski> tempate : you know that you're able to write
2021-03-20 20:50:35 +0100 <ski> let numbers :: [Int]
2021-03-20 20:50:40 +0100 <ski> numbers = ...
2021-03-20 20:50:42 +0100 <ski> yes ?
2021-03-20 20:50:52 +0100 <tempate> I do, but is that any better?
2021-03-20 20:51:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: I see :)
2021-03-20 20:51:18 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-20 20:51:24 +0100 <ski> (not saying you should necessarily do that here. just pointing out the possibility. sometimes people don't realize you can put signatures inside `let' and `where')
2021-03-20 20:52:12 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806855300b098de2ef1518cac.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2021-03-20 20:52:22 +0100 <ski> tempate : better, in the end, is up for you to decide. it's your code, it should be readable to you
2021-03-20 20:52:46 +0100 <ski> (being aware of common problems, pitfalls, issues, tricks, conventions, help, of course)
2021-03-20 20:52:47 +0100 <tempate> ski: alright, I appreciate the advice as, as you can probably tell, I'm learning by doing. I usually like to learn programming languages by running head-first against the wall, so every piece of advice, or comment, you're willing to give me is more than welcome.
2021-03-20 20:52:58 +0100skinods
2021-03-20 20:53:22 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.117.235)
2021-03-20 20:54:01 +0100 <ski> in my experience, newbies (or talking to newbies) often benefit from being a bit extra strict with terminology, distinctions, relevant concepts, and possible related confusions
2021-03-20 20:55:37 +0100 <ski> (i've seen multiple people say this, or had them thank me, when i've attempted to elucidate such matters. when one's more comfortable with the stuff, and talking to others who are, one can afford to be a bit more sloppy)
2021-03-20 20:55:44 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-20 20:58:15 +0100 <tempate> I agree
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2021-03-20 21:00:14 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-20 21:02:58 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
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2021-03-20 21:05:29 +0100chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:d9c5)
2021-03-20 21:07:32 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-03-20 21:07:57 +0100shaprhops quietly
2021-03-20 21:08:14 +0100 <shapr> six weeks until #haskell turns 20
2021-03-20 21:09:43 +0100skiboings quietly
2021-03-20 21:09:49 +0100 <shapr> hi ski!
2021-03-20 21:10:34 +0100 <ski> hm, first of May, was it, roughly ?
2021-03-20 21:10:47 +0100 <ski> hejs :)
2021-03-20 21:12:36 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.70.18) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-20 21:14:53 +0100hackagerecursion-schemes 5.2.2.1 - Representing common recursion patterns as higher-order functions https://hackage.haskell.org/package/recursion-schemes-5.2.2.1 (luc_tielen)
2021-03-20 21:14:58 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-099-083.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: lawid)
2021-03-20 21:15:31 +0100 <ski> i don't remember if i came here in the late spring, or in the autumn
2021-03-20 21:16:50 +0100danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 21:18:16 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-099-083.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
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2021-03-20 21:23:16 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-20 21:24:09 +0100 <shapr> ski: I think you were one of the first few
2021-03-20 21:24:43 +0100m1dnight1(~m1dnight@188.ip-51-91-158.eu)
2021-03-20 21:25:34 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-109-157.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-03-20 21:27:24 +0100 <ski> yea, iirc we were around a dozen to a score, back then
2021-03-20 21:27:49 +0100dcoutts__(~duncan@85.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 21:27:52 +0100 <ski> i guess i found the description on hawiki at the right time :)
2021-03-20 21:28:11 +0100dcoutts__(~duncan@85.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-03-20 21:34:54 +0100 <tempate> I got this one sooner than I expected
2021-03-20 21:34:55 +0100 <tempate> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/gSqLJcqA
2021-03-20 21:35:58 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:6075:d116:7f4b:9342)
2021-03-20 21:37:38 +0100 <tempate> Is camel case more idiomatic in haskell than snail case?
2021-03-20 21:37:48 +0100 <ski> yes
2021-03-20 21:38:19 +0100 <ski> i think, occasionaly, the latter may be used, or even both at the same time
2021-03-20 21:38:30 +0100 <tempate> Actually, I think this is more readable: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tc4tAf3e
2021-03-20 21:39:11 +0100 <ski> instead of `(a,b) = ...' and `b_ = tail b', you could say `(a,_:b_) = ...'
2021-03-20 21:39:52 +0100 <ski> or, i guess, in this case, possibly (a,'-':b_) = ...
2021-03-20 21:40:44 +0100 <ski> and instead of `head char' you can say `char', with `char:_' replacing the pattern `char'
2021-03-20 21:40:45 +0100 <tempate> oh, right
2021-03-20 21:40:50 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:6075:d116:7f4b:9342) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 21:41:40 +0100 <ski> in `policy1', `(c:cs)' could be `c:cs'
2021-03-20 21:42:01 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:99f2:16e7:abb7:2d80)
2021-03-20 21:42:05 +0100skiwould probably personally align the parameters of the recursive call
2021-03-20 21:42:09 +0100 <tempate> ski: yeah, I thought about that but I thought `head char` was more readable
2021-03-20 21:42:26 +0100 <ski> (but then i may like things lining up, quite a bit)
2021-03-20 21:42:40 +0100 <tempate> does (a, '-', b) = bounds make sense?
2021-03-20 21:42:53 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:6075:d116:7f4b:9342)
2021-03-20 21:43:02 +0100 <ski> `head',`tail',`fromJust' will give worse error messages, not including a location
2021-03-20 21:43:17 +0100 <ski> no, the second `,' should be a `:', as i said
2021-03-20 21:44:07 +0100 <tempate> I thought that was if I was using a break
2021-03-20 21:44:26 +0100 <ski> oh, sorry. i missed the `bounds' part
2021-03-20 21:44:37 +0100 <ski> you'd still need the `break', yes
2021-03-20 21:44:50 +0100 <tempate> oh, ok
2021-03-20 21:45:43 +0100 <tempate> ski: do you like the str_index part (despite the camel case?
2021-03-20 21:45:47 +0100 <tempate> +)
2021-03-20 21:47:19 +0100 <ski> map f (map g xs) = (map f . map g) xs = map (f . g) xs -- one pass instead of two
2021-03-20 21:48:25 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.70.18)
2021-03-20 21:48:26 +0100 <ski> oh, only saw the updated now
2021-03-20 21:48:30 +0100 <tempate> I knew there had to be a way to do that
2021-03-20 21:49:01 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-20 21:49:38 +0100 <tempate> To be completely honest I'm still sort of confused as to how the `.` works
2021-03-20 21:49:41 +0100 <ski> if you don't like the brackets piling up at the end, you could possibly say something like
2021-03-20 21:50:06 +0100 <ski> (show . sum . map (fromEnum . policy1)) passwords
2021-03-20 21:50:17 +0100 <ski> @src (.)
2021-03-20 21:50:17 +0100 <lambdabot> (f . g) x = f (g x)
2021-03-20 21:51:24 +0100 <tempate> This is the latest version: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/EVARJua5
2021-03-20 21:51:33 +0100 <tempate> with all the comments you suggested above
2021-03-20 21:52:12 +0100 <ski> (but i don't think there's anything wrong with `show (sum (map (fromEnum . policy1) passwords))', either. and the version with two `map's isn't too terrible, either, since `map' is incremental, and you're even likely to get fusion (so that the intermediate data structure is elided). however, it's good to be aware of such possibilities for refactoring)
2021-03-20 21:52:36 +0100 <tempate> Fantastic
2021-03-20 21:52:39 +0100 <tempate> I wasn't aware, tbh
2021-03-20 21:53:55 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-20 21:54:34 +0100 <tempate> I was thinking maybe matchIndex i = (str !! (i-1)) == char was potentially better
2021-03-20 21:54:34 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-03-20 21:54:39 +0100 <ski> tempate : ah, nice. yea, `(/=)' on `Bool' is exclusive disjunction
2021-03-20 21:54:48 +0100 <ski> (and you noticed the missing argument)
2021-03-20 21:55:02 +0100 <tempate> hehe, yeah
2021-03-20 21:55:05 +0100 <ski> strIndex i = str !! (i-1) -- suffices
2021-03-20 21:55:30 +0100 <ski> well, you could do that `matchIndex', if you prefer
2021-03-20 21:56:03 +0100 <tempate> do you think it'd be better?
2021-03-20 21:56:17 +0100 <tempate> there would be less repetition for once
2021-03-20 21:56:34 +0100 <ski> ease of reasoning (equational reasoning, to a large part), refactoring, means that you can often apply them on a by-need basis, since they're, at least comparatively, low-effort
2021-03-20 21:58:19 +0100 <ski> tempate : it might be slightly clearer in this case. but i don't think there's a huge difference. upto personal taste
2021-03-20 21:58:30 +0100cyberlard(~cyberlard@unaffiliated/jludwig)
2021-03-20 21:59:31 +0100 <ski> another problem is of course that if you reach for `!!' (or even `length'), then you probably shouldn't be using (linked) lists .. but let's ignore that
2021-03-20 21:59:57 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.70.18) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 22:00:03 +0100 <tempate> how would you do it?
2021-03-20 22:00:43 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
2021-03-20 22:00:45 +0100skistill prefers avoiding redundant brackets in pattern (the `c:cs'), and usually would align them, across multiple defining equations
2021-03-20 22:01:21 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-20 22:01:36 +0100Vadrigar(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2021-03-20 22:02:11 +0100 <tempate> The compiler is bitching about the last two lines
2021-03-20 22:02:22 +0100 <tempate> it doesn't like the whole `.` business
2021-03-20 22:03:08 +0100 <ski> i guess i'd possibly use `Text', or maybe `ByteString'. but since they're presumably not that long, it probably doesn't matter that much, in this case
2021-03-20 22:03:31 +0100 <ski> ah, because you omitted non-redundant brackets :)
2021-03-20 22:04:24 +0100 <ski> (a) construct a chain/pipeline of functions; (b) apply that to an input
2021-03-20 22:05:18 +0100 <ski> (using such composition chains is a bit related to "wholemeal programming", where one focuses on whole data structures at a time, rather than on individual parts of them, that one may be iterating through)
2021-03-20 22:05:42 +0100 <tempate> so what are the needed parenthesis?
2021-03-20 22:05:53 +0100Vadrigar(~Vadrigar@ip5b417208.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-20 22:05:57 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.70.18)
2021-03-20 22:08:14 +0100 <ski> <ski> (show . sum . map (fromEnum . policy1)) passwords
2021-03-20 22:08:16 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 22:09:35 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-099-083.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: lawid)
2021-03-20 22:10:02 +0100 <ski> (some people would write `show . sum . map (fromEnum . policy1) $ passwords' instead. that's definitely to be preferred to `show $ sum $ map (fromEnum . policy1) $ passwords' or something like `show (sum $ map (fromEnum . policy1) $ passwords)'. with a chain with multiple `.'s, you can factor or (or fold back in) any subsequence of compositions of funtions, since `.' is associative. with `$', not so)
2021-03-20 22:10:42 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.129.70.18) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-20 22:11:18 +0100 <tempate> oh, the closing parenthesis comes before passwords because you're "merging" functions
2021-03-20 22:11:20 +0100 <tempate> ok, got it
2021-03-20 22:11:35 +0100lawid(~quassel@dslb-090-186-099-083.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-03-20 22:12:41 +0100 <tempate> Thanks again for all the help, ski
2021-03-20 22:12:49 +0100 <ski> no problem :)
2021-03-20 22:13:39 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b959874ac6c8157d63e67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2021-03-20 22:49:02 +0100benkolera(uid285671@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ewecqecbsbwhnnil)
2021-03-20 22:50:00 +0100 <koz_> > [2, 4 .. 8]
2021-03-20 22:50:02 +0100 <lambdabot> [2,4,6,8]
2021-03-20 22:50:05 +0100 <koz_> :D
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2021-03-20 23:28:52 +0100 <bbhoss> could someone explain what I'm missing here? https://replit.com/@bbhoss/RedundantYellowishCopyright#main.hs the error is confusing to me. I understand that find returns a Maybe, it seems it's returning a function t0 MyDataType -> Maybe MyDataType? the t0 is particularly unclear
2021-03-20 23:29:20 +0100 <bbhoss> Couldn't match expected type `Maybe CandidateTally' with actual type `t0 CandidateTally -> Maybe CandidateTally'
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2021-03-20 23:31:02 +0100 <bbhoss> basically the whole goal there is to find the running tally so I can add one to it to count a vote. I've got isCandidateTally which should make predicates for me depending on who the vote was for (the candidate)
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2021-03-20 23:33:42 +0100 <ski> bbhoss : you're missing passing one argument to `find'
2021-03-20 23:34:00 +0100molehillish(~molehilli@2600:8800:8d06:1800:c1f2:e355:53f0:4ab8)
2021-03-20 23:34:22 +0100 <bbhoss> d0h
2021-03-20 23:34:44 +0100 <bbhoss> I wasn't passing the actual running election in
2021-03-20 23:34:52 +0100 <bbhoss> thanks
2021-03-20 23:34:55 +0100 <ski> the type error about not being able to match `Maybe (...)' with `... -> Maybe (...)' immediately suggests missing, or extraneous, argument
2021-03-20 23:35:05 +0100 <ski> (also, there's no reason to use `$' there)
2021-03-20 23:35:44 +0100unyu(~pyon@unaffiliated/pyon) (Quit: Remember that death is not the end, but only a transition.)
2021-03-20 23:35:54 +0100 <bbhoss> yeah I guess the t0 threw me off. t is the Traversable? Why is the 0 getting added on?
2021-03-20 23:36:44 +0100 <ski> possibly, during the type inference process, it had already introduced a type variable `t'
2021-03-20 23:36:50 +0100 <ski> @type find
2021-03-20 23:36:52 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Maybe a
2021-03-20 23:37:05 +0100 <ski> the name `t' coming from there, presumably
2021-03-20 23:37:16 +0100 <ski> in your case, you have a list
2021-03-20 23:38:03 +0100 <ski> (so `t'/`t0' is `[]', so that `t a'/`t0 CandidateTally' is `[] CandidateTally' is `[CandidateTally]')
2021-03-20 23:38:19 +0100 <ski> btw, note that
2021-03-20 23:38:25 +0100 <ski> the whole goal there is to find the running tally so I can add one to it to count a vote. I've got isCandidateTally which should make predicates for me depending on who the vote was for (the candidate)
2021-03-20 23:38:29 +0100 <ski> er, sorry
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2021-03-20 23:39:07 +0100 <ski> findCandidateResult candidate election = find (isCandidateTally candidate) election
2021-03-20 23:39:21 +0100 <ski> is, by "function extensionality", equivalent to
2021-03-20 23:39:30 +0100 <ski> findCandidateResult candidate = find (isCandidateTally candidate)
2021-03-20 23:39:44 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.117.235) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-20 23:40:19 +0100 <bbhoss> yep, linter just made that suggestion and I took it. as far as the $ being unnecessary, it seems like it allows me to omit the parentheses? I'm on the fence whether they are better than $
2021-03-20 23:40:19 +0100 <ski> (since, if `f x = g x', for all `x', then `f' and `g' behaves the same, in the sense of giving equal outputs for equal inputs, and so `f = g')
2021-03-20 23:40:36 +0100 <ski> and then, it is possible to reason further
2021-03-20 23:40:41 +0100 <ski> findCandidateResult candidate = find (isCandidateTally candidate)
2021-03-20 23:40:55 +0100 <ski> = (find . isCandidateTally) candidate
2021-03-20 23:41:06 +0100 <ski> findCandidateResult = find . isCandidateTally
2021-03-20 23:41:35 +0100 <ski> (not saying it's better to rephrase it like that. just that it's possible to do so)
2021-03-20 23:42:48 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-03-20 23:43:04 +0100 <ski> imho, generally it's not that common (at least compared to how often especially newbies use it) to have a case where `$' improves anything
2021-03-20 23:43:35 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.115.129.42.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-20 23:43:39 +0100 <ski> (brackets are nothing to be afraid of)
2021-03-20 23:44:26 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> brackets add one thing to remember when parsing
2021-03-20 23:45:00 +0100 <ski> in my mind, brackets are easier to parse
2021-03-20 23:45:04 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> when you meet an opening bracket, you need to put "met opening bracket, expect closing bracket" somewhere in memory
2021-03-20 23:45:09 +0100 <ski> (especially with sane indentation)
2021-03-20 23:45:33 +0100 <ski> with operators, i have to think about relative operator precedence
2021-03-20 23:45:43 +0100 <ski> (and associativity)
2021-03-20 23:45:58 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> but when you meet $, you don't have to expect for other matching character (when it's done right)
2021-03-20 23:46:14 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:99f2:16e7:abb7:2d80) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-20 23:46:27 +0100 <ski> __minoru__shirae : yes, and you pay for that, by the precedence
2021-03-20 23:50:09 +0100myShoggoth(~myShoggot@75.164.81.55) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-20 23:51:41 +0100Rudd0^(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2021-03-20 23:52:40 +0100RandomArcher(~isho@90.153.235.252)
2021-03-20 23:53:10 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> speaking of precedence, I tripped over it when trying to implement a list bounds check like this: "min 0 y-1"
2021-03-20 23:53:23 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and then I started getting -1
2021-03-20 23:53:29 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1)
2021-03-20 23:53:58 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> turnes out you have to say "min 0 (y-1)"
2021-03-20 23:54:18 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)
2021-03-20 23:54:23 +0100 <ski> yep
2021-03-20 23:54:41 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-20 23:54:50 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> can you give an example of screwing up precendence when using %
2021-03-20 23:54:57 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> s/%/$/
2021-03-20 23:54:58 +0100 <ski> function application binds tighter than any (ordinary) infix operators
2021-03-20 23:56:00 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> err, it should be "max 0 (y-1)"
2021-03-20 23:56:52 +0100 <ski> foo x $ bar baz
2021-03-20 23:56:55 +0100 <ski> <|> quux
2021-03-20 23:57:09 +0100 <maralorn> Is there a simple way to just install (or rather build) a random package from hackage with haskell.nix?
2021-03-20 23:57:52 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> ski: "foo x $ bar baz" translates to "foo x (bar baz)", right? where is the problem here?
2021-03-20 23:58:46 +0100codygman`(~user@47.186.207.161) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-20 23:59:53 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:114e:cbb2:413:961f)