2021/03/08

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2021-03-08 00:03:32 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.143)
2021-03-08 00:03:38 +0100minoru_shiraeesh(~shiraeesh@109.166.57.19) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2021-03-08 00:32:49 +0100 <koz_> I have a whole bunch of HKD records which all derive Generic. I need to write a function with a signature like (Generic rec) => rec Identity -> rec Maybe -> Bool, which would compare those HKDs field by field. Nothings match anything, Justs only match the value inside the Just.
2021-03-08 00:32:50 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-08 00:32:58 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 00:33:02 +0100 <koz_> I assume this is _doable_ with Generic, but I'm not sure how to even begin to write it.
2021-03-08 00:33:12 +0100 <koz_> Does someone have some resource(s) they could point me to?
2021-03-08 00:33:27 +0100 <koz_> (before the inevitable 'y so complicated' - I didn't pick the types or the problem)
2021-03-08 00:33:43 +0100 <koz_> s/HKDs/HKD records/
2021-03-08 00:37:04 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:ad8c:89aa:bf10:9556)
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2021-03-08 00:46:33 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 00:53:43 +0100 <zebrag> > let sep = " ,." in "hello, bye, bye" & (groupBy (\x y -> (not $ elem x sep) && (not $ elem y sep))) & filter (\xs -> (\x -> not $ elem x sep) <$> xs & and) & sort & group & sortOn length & reverse & head
2021-03-08 00:53:45 +0100 <lambdabot> ["bye","bye"]
2021-03-08 00:54:34 +0100luke(~luke@bitnomial/staff/luke) (Quit: sleep)
2021-03-08 00:54:46 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 00:58:41 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2021-03-08 00:59:38 +0100 <koz_> Never mind, found another way.
2021-03-08 00:59:43 +0100 <koz_> (still believe it's doable)
2021-03-08 01:00:00 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> zebrag: what you up to there?
2021-03-08 01:00:05 +0100atk(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK) (Quit: Well this is unexpected.)
2021-03-08 01:00:09 +0100 <zebrag> nothing
2021-03-08 01:00:18 +0100 <koz_> Nothing :: Maybe Action
2021-03-08 01:00:26 +0100atk(~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK)
2021-03-08 01:01:01 +0100 <zebrag> word with higher frequency
2021-03-08 01:01:03 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-08 01:02:18 +0100ambiso99(~ambiso@209.182.239.205) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-03-08 01:02:41 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 01:03:27 +0100 <infinisil> koz_: I'd use the higher-kinded applicative instance for that
2021-03-08 01:04:10 +0100 <infinisil> Libraries like barbies or rank2classes can derive those for you (barbies with Generics, rank2classes with TH)
2021-03-08 01:04:33 +0100 <qih> koz_: o/ How did the w/e play out for you?
2021-03-08 01:04:33 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-03-08 01:04:38 +0100 <infinisil> Then you could use https://hackage.haskell.org/package/barbies-2.0.2.0/docs/Data-Functor-Barbie.html#v:bzipWith
2021-03-08 01:04:50 +0100 <koz_> qih: It was fun for the second day.
2021-03-08 01:04:52 +0100qihfinally has a functional DEV machine now 8-)
2021-03-08 01:04:57 +0100 <qih> koz_: ?
2021-03-08 01:05:03 +0100 <koz_> infinisil: Thanks! I might look into that in case it's easier.
2021-03-08 01:05:08 +0100ambiso99(~ambiso@209.182.239.205)
2021-03-08 01:05:23 +0100 <koz_> qih: You asked how the weekend played out for me. I claim it was fun for the second day.
2021-03-08 01:06:17 +0100 <qih> Oh right, my bad. We had great weather on the S/I, got out and about.
2021-03-08 01:07:21 +0100 <glguy> koz_, GHC.Generics isn't particularly suited to this
2021-03-08 01:07:45 +0100 <koz_> glguy: I imagine it'd be awkward. It's moot now anyway because I found a different route to achieve what I want.
2021-03-08 01:09:38 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.157.43) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 01:10:01 +0100ADG1089_(~adg1089@122.163.167.99)
2021-03-08 01:11:45 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@dvc-186-186-101-190.movil.vtr.net)
2021-03-08 01:12:54 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.159)
2021-03-08 01:14:00 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-08 01:14:03 +0100 <infinisil> koz_: Oh actually if you want to use generics for that, this blog post does something very similar: https://reasonablypolymorphic.com/blog/higher-kinded-data/
2021-03-08 01:14:14 +0100 <koz_> Figured Sandy might. :P
2021-03-08 01:15:04 +0100ADG1089_(~adg1089@122.163.167.99) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-03-08 01:31:58 +0100bennofs__(~quassel@dslb-188-106-250-212.188.106.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-03-08 01:34:15 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2021-03-08 01:41:38 +0100cookielady(5f5ebd5c@a95-94-189-92.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-08 01:42:10 +0100 <cookielady> hello, really new around. may i get some hints and tips
2021-03-08 01:43:01 +0100refusenick(~user@2601:644:8502:d700::b8d1)
2021-03-08 01:43:04 +0100m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 01:43:36 +0100 <cookielady> hey
2021-03-08 01:43:46 +0100CMCDragonkai1(~Thunderbi@60-242-118-130.tpgi.com.au)
2021-03-08 01:43:52 +0100 <cookielady> anyone there?
2021-03-08 01:45:05 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> cookielady: irc is not so instant as other messengers
2021-03-08 01:45:37 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> you don't have to make sure that anyone is online to ask a question
2021-03-08 01:45:38 +0100 <cookielady> thanks for a reponse. right , then how it works though
2021-03-08 01:45:54 +0100pyuk(~vroom@217.138.252.212)
2021-03-08 01:45:54 +0100pyuk(~vroom@217.138.252.212) (Client Quit)
2021-03-08 01:46:34 +0100 <qih> cookielady: Greetings. Probably a better way to start being new, is put forward your specific question with a reasonable degree of system information, and what you are trying to do, alternately read this =>
2021-03-08 01:46:38 +0100 <qih> cookielady: http://jeff.jones.be/blog/2009/03/17/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
2021-03-08 01:48:09 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 01:48:25 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> cookielady: just ask and then see if someone answers right away or maybe later
2021-03-08 01:49:02 +0100 <qih> What __minoru__shirae said ...
2021-03-08 01:49:52 +0100puke(~vroom@217.138.252.212) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-08 01:51:35 +0100 <cookielady> alright thank you.
2021-03-08 01:53:29 +0100 <cookielady> well then for now i wanna get basic skills on the hacking system and system programs
2021-03-08 01:54:02 +0100 <cookielady> i am trying to register on IRC aswell
2021-03-08 01:54:06 +0100 <SoF> in haskell?
2021-03-08 01:54:27 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 01:54:37 +0100 <cookielady> well  i just found haskell as i was lookin on IRC
2021-03-08 01:54:58 +0100 <cookielady> and tried to get in here to see if any luck on help
2021-03-08 01:55:15 +0100hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap)
2021-03-08 01:55:29 +0100matryoshka(~matryoshk@2606:6080:1002:8:3285:30e:de43:8809)
2021-03-08 02:00:12 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 02:02:32 +0100 <qih> Well tbh the people in this room are scattered all across the Planet, so for some it is still Sunday/Evening, others on a Monday are working etc ... IRC is not an instant messaging as __minoru__shirae however if you are prepared to ask & wait, some of the talented peeps here are likely to help you when/if they can.
2021-03-08 02:02:55 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 02:03:27 +0100 <qih> Register #1 https://howchoo.com/internet/register-nickname-freenode
2021-03-08 02:03:35 +0100 <qih> Register #2 https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration
2021-03-08 02:04:15 +0100qihruns back to Kernel muppetry 8-)
2021-03-08 02:05:49 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-03-08 02:06:49 +0100dfaiv-dev(44f9e9e4@68-249-233-228.lightspeed.okcbok.sbcglobal.net)
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2021-03-08 02:14:28 +0100robweb(ac3a115f@172.58.17.95)
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2021-03-08 02:16:19 +0100CMCDragonkai1(~Thunderbi@60-242-118-130.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 02:17:29 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 02:21:04 +0100luke(~luke@bitnomial/staff/luke)
2021-03-08 02:21:20 +0100 <robweb> Hi. I have this problem: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2kKay44r Please help if you can. Thank you.
2021-03-08 02:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-08 02:22:47 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 02:23:14 +0100 <c_wraith> why do you think it should have a Just?
2021-03-08 02:23:48 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 02:24:26 +0100 <monochrom> You need a case analysis on the outcome of the recursive call "flipMaybe xs".
2021-03-08 02:24:44 +0100 <xsperry> > sequence [Just 1, Just 2, Just 3]
2021-03-08 02:24:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Just [1,2,3]
2021-03-08 02:24:58 +0100 <monochrom> Start with: case flipMaybe xs of Nothing -> ??? ; Just ys -> ???
2021-03-08 02:25:10 +0100 <monochrom> With access to ys, it is now clear what to do.
2021-03-08 02:25:38 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@protective.remission.volia.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 02:27:42 +0100robweb(ac3a115f@172.58.17.95) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-08 02:30:05 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 02:33:10 +0100robweb(ac3a10ed@172.58.16.237)
2021-03-08 02:33:17 +0100loli(~loli@024-171-017-003.res.spectrum.com)
2021-03-08 02:33:36 +0100 <robweb> Hi. I have this problem: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/2kKay44r Please help if you can. Thank you.
2021-03-08 02:34:28 +0100 <monochrom> <monochrom> You need a case analysis on the outcome of the recursive call "flipMaybe xs".
2021-03-08 02:34:34 +0100 <monochrom> <monochrom> Start with: case flipMaybe xs of Nothing -> ??? ; Just ys -> ???
2021-03-08 02:34:34 +0100 <monochrom> <monochrom> With access to ys, it is now clear what to do.
2021-03-08 02:35:47 +0100 <robweb> monochrom: OK, Ill try that. Thank you!
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2021-03-08 02:51:06 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-28.static.apol.com.tw)
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2021-03-08 03:06:34 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-03-08 03:08:38 +0100 <sm[m]> is there an easy way to download the package tarballs with cabal or stack ? Without unpacking them as unpack does
2021-03-08 03:09:24 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:09:33 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.143) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:09:43 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 03:10:09 +0100Waifod(~Waifod@91.106.123.186) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:11:46 +0100Waifod(~Waifod@91.106.123.186)
2021-03-08 03:12:16 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:ad8c:89aa:bf10:9556)
2021-03-08 03:13:28 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: Techcable - The Lounge)
2021-03-08 03:14:39 +0100 <monochrom> "cabal fetch --no-dependencies unordered-containers" then look under ~/.cabal/packages/hackage.haskell.org/unordered-containers/
2021-03-08 03:15:07 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:11c5:786:f774:d85e)
2021-03-08 03:16:42 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-08 03:17:44 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 03:19:14 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:ad8c:89aa:bf10:9556) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:19:17 +0100 <sm[m]> thanks!
2021-03-08 03:22:06 +0100spidr(~spider@2402:1f00:8100:400::6b1)
2021-03-08 03:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-08 03:22:48 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 03:23:36 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> > :t sequence
2021-03-08 03:23:38 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2021-03-08 03:23:45 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 03:24:03 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> > t sequence
2021-03-08 03:24:06 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-03-08 03:24:06 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘(t0 (m0 a0) -> m0 (t0 a0)) -> t’
2021-03-08 03:24:06 +0100 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Expr’
2021-03-08 03:24:22 +0100Alleria_(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-1db4-c99c-5289-cfbe.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-08 03:24:36 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> > :type sequence
2021-03-08 03:24:38 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2021-03-08 03:24:53 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> :type sequence
2021-03-08 03:25:38 +0100gitgood(~gitgood@82-132-218-70.dab.02.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-08 03:26:52 +0100 <infinisil> :t sequence
2021-03-08 03:26:54 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a)
2021-03-08 03:28:00 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> Yeah thx I sat up and walked to my laptop instead
2021-03-08 03:28:05 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tavdfvfumkaqxbyk)
2021-03-08 03:30:05 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 03:30:27 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 03:30:39 +0100alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.142) (Quit: alx741)
2021-03-08 03:36:45 +0100average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cittvqzqnvkosprm)
2021-03-08 03:39:38 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:41:06 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 03:42:28 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-08 03:42:42 +0100vhs_(~vhs@5.180.62.118) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:43:49 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-08 03:44:14 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:45:11 +0100Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2021-03-08 03:45:42 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-55-149.tukw.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 03:46:11 +0100Kater(~Kater@178.239.168.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 03:46:36 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-08 03:47:39 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-03-08 03:47:46 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 03:48:10 +0100TechcableGuest68433
2021-03-08 03:50:26 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:51:38 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:52eb:4100:7c75:434:3c88:779d) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:52:18 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 03:53:27 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5322:b100:c3e9:43a2:4b72:b507)
2021-03-08 03:54:40 +0100kadoban_kadobanana
2021-03-08 03:54:56 +0100kadobananakadoban_
2021-03-08 03:57:38 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 03:58:33 +0100Guest68433(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-08 03:59:38 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 03:59:44 +0100Techcable_(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 04:00:13 +0100Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-1db4-c99c-5289-cfbe.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-08 04:00:37 +0100AlleriaGuest51413
2021-03-08 04:01:50 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:02:06 +0100rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cqtgrbgbxdwdpiqe)
2021-03-08 04:02:54 +0100[LE](~LE]@217.146.82.202)
2021-03-08 04:04:14 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:04:15 +0100Guest51413(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-1db4-c99c-5289-cfbe.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:05:18 +0100sablib(~sablib@59.173.152.160) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:05:55 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-03-08 04:09:08 +0100troydm(~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm) (Quit: What is Hope? That all of your wishes and all of your dreams come true? To turn back time because things were not supposed to happen like that (C) Rau Le Creuset)
2021-03-08 04:09:33 +0100troydm(~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm)
2021-03-08 04:10:26 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:12:25 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-03-08 04:12:25 +0100finn_elijaGuest55155
2021-03-08 04:12:25 +0100FinnElijafinn_elija
2021-03-08 04:14:17 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-08 04:16:05 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 04:16:27 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 04:16:28 +0100Guest55155(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:17:23 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-55-149.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-03-08 04:17:42 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:19:00 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-08 04:19:07 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-03-08 04:19:09 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-03-08 04:22:16 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.159) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-08 04:22:19 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-55-149.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-08 04:22:47 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 04:25:55 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.159)
2021-03-08 04:26:05 +0100M53K5HUN_8[m](M53k5hun8m@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uoztttdwldeuechk)
2021-03-08 04:28:09 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:28:24 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:30:15 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151)
2021-03-08 04:30:15 +0100mnrmnaugh(~mnrmnaugh@unaffiliated/mnrmnaugh)
2021-03-08 04:31:45 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:11c5:786:f774:d85e) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-08 04:32:13 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2021-03-08 04:32:30 +0100lagooned(lagooned@irc.nathanic.org)
2021-03-08 04:33:01 +0100 <lagooned> is hoogle down?
2021-03-08 04:33:02 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:33:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 04:36:48 +0100ech(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ech) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:37:04 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.159) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-08 04:38:45 +0100 <zebrag> @hoogle [a] -> [a]
2021-03-08 04:38:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Prelude tail :: [a] -> [a]
2021-03-08 04:38:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Prelude init :: [a] -> [a]
2021-03-08 04:38:46 +0100 <lambdabot> Prelude reverse :: [a] -> [a]
2021-03-08 04:39:07 +0100eacameron(uid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcgmvbdvyqnlqqik) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-08 04:39:39 +0100theDon(~td@94.134.91.77) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-08 04:39:40 +0100 <zebrag> @pl \xs n -> take n xs
2021-03-08 04:39:41 +0100 <lambdabot> flip take
2021-03-08 04:40:00 +0100 <zebrag> @djinn (a, b) -> c -> (b, c)
2021-03-08 04:40:00 +0100 <lambdabot> f (_, a) b = (a, b)
2021-03-08 04:41:15 +0100 <zebrag> https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot
2021-03-08 04:41:34 +0100theDon(~td@94.134.91.237)
2021-03-08 04:42:03 +0100 <lagooned> back up now, was 502ing like 5 min ago
2021-03-08 04:42:36 +0100Techcable_(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-08 04:43:17 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 04:47:05 +0100hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic)
2021-03-08 04:48:51 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-08 04:50:46 +0100Techcable(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 04:51:10 +0100TechcableGuest47497
2021-03-08 04:56:40 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@static-198-54-134-124.cust.tzulo.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-08 05:00:00 +0100Taneb(~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org) (Quit: I seem to have stopped.)
2021-03-08 05:01:25 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:01:31 +0100Taneb(~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:aaaa:0:aaaa:0)
2021-03-08 05:02:47 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:11c5:786:f774:d85e)
2021-03-08 05:05:18 +0100Guest47497(~Techcable@168.235.93.147) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
2021-03-08 05:05:58 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@unaffiliated/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:06:05 +0100Techcable_(~Techcable@168.235.93.147)
2021-03-08 05:07:34 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:09:39 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:11:24 +0100brkscnce_(~obaum@37.120.59.241)
2021-03-08 05:12:39 +0100brkscnce(~obaum@37.120.14.42) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:14:47 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
2021-03-08 05:19:36 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@unaffiliated/tomboy64)
2021-03-08 05:20:10 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2021-03-08 05:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-08 05:22:34 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.206.68)
2021-03-08 05:22:48 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 05:26:00 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@unaffiliated/tomboy64) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:26:46 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-08 05:28:22 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-03-08 05:44:57 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@cpe98524a8cef7c-cm98524a8cef7a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 05:47:01 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 05:54:56 +0100puke(~vroom@217.138.252.212)
2021-03-08 05:58:01 +0100brandly(~brandly@c-73-68-15-46.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 05:58:50 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-08 05:59:52 +0100 <gentauro> 22:31 < monochrom> Yes, this community has pretty bent ideas of what safety and unsafety mean.
2021-03-08 06:00:13 +0100 <gentauro> monochrom: in my book, safe, means that you can `tag` your library with `Safe Haskell`
2021-03-08 06:00:21 +0100Alleria(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-1db4-c99c-5289-cfbe.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-08 06:00:21 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-55-149.tukw.qwest.net)
2021-03-08 06:00:30 +0100 <gentauro> it's like when you ready "pure JavaScript"
2021-03-08 06:00:45 +0100AlleriaGuest35030
2021-03-08 06:01:06 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 06:01:18 +0100 <gentauro> I think that kind of terminology is misleading/misguiding
2021-03-08 06:01:26 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 06:01:51 +0100 <gentauro> s/ready/read/
2021-03-08 06:03:15 +0100gnumonic(~gnumonic@c-73-170-91-210.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-08 06:03:23 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 06:04:57 +0100Guest35030(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-1db4-c99c-5289-cfbe.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 06:05:19 +0100ezrakilty(~ezrakilty@97-113-55-149.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-08 06:05:25 +0100pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2021-03-08 06:06:50 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-03-08 06:16:22 +0100average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cittvqzqnvkosprm) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-08 06:17:03 +0100cookielady(5f5ebd5c@a95-94-189-92.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-08 06:18:38 +0100brandly(~brandly@c-73-68-15-46.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 06:21:34 +0100locrian9(~mike@99-153-255-194.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-08 06:22:25 +0100 <d34df00d> I had a funny bug yesterday that cost me two hours to debug, because a library used unsafePerformIO under the hood.
2021-03-08 06:22:27 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-08 06:22:30 +0100 <d34df00d> So I am all for safety, whatever that means.
2021-03-08 06:22:48 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 06:26:40 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.38.154)
2021-03-08 06:27:05 +0100tomboy64(~tomboy64@unaffiliated/tomboy64)
2021-03-08 06:37:20 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-08 06:38:05 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2021-03-08 06:40:27 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161)
2021-03-08 06:40:52 +0100 <siraben> d34df00d: why did they use unsafePerformIO?
2021-03-08 06:41:44 +0100average(uid473595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcysglljudzmpxqx)
2021-03-08 06:45:52 +0100 <gentauro> siraben: corner-cutting?
2021-03-08 06:46:34 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-03-08 06:47:25 +0100kadobanana(kadoban9he@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gliltzokamjplayu)
2021-03-08 06:48:29 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 06:49:52 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161)
2021-03-08 06:53:34 +0100 <monochrom> d34df00d: Do you know our context? We were not against the name "unsafePerformIO".
2021-03-08 07:03:33 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:2076:7626:28f5:58b2)
2021-03-08 07:03:56 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806c05f001879c69ab5903a67.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2021-03-08 07:04:12 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 07:11:05 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 07:11:24 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 07:12:04 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.38.154) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 07:20:22 +0100mozzarella(~sam@unaffiliated/sam113101) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 07:20:28 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 07:22:34 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 07:24:14 +0100hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 07:26:03 +0100hendi(sid489601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umgweedspvdxhric)
2021-03-08 07:29:15 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b806c05f001879c69ab5903a67.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: bitmagie)
2021-03-08 07:30:33 +0100 <mniip> 2 hours that's like nothing
2021-03-08 07:33:28 +0100aggin(~ecm@103.88.87.36)
2021-03-08 07:33:28 +0100agginsda
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2021-03-08 09:11:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> hyiltiz-M: you can also private-message with lambdabot ;)
2021-03-08 09:12:00 +0100 <Uniaika> heya tomsmeding :)
2021-03-08 09:12:03 +0100 <Uniaika> how are you?
2021-03-08 09:12:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> o/
2021-03-08 09:12:13 +0100 <hyiltiz> yeah should've odne that; much more polite than accidental spam
2021-03-08 09:12:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> doing well, programming haskell :)
2021-03-08 09:12:21 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:ad8c:89aa:bf10:9556)
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2021-03-08 09:36:01 +0100arrowsvc_(~arr@2.93.163.35)
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2021-03-08 09:37:33 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Before cabal-install 3.4 I was able to unpack a dependency library right into my project's root and `cabal new-build` was picking it up.
2021-03-08 09:37:43 +0100 <arrowsvc_> This doesn't seem to be the case anymore with 3.4
2021-03-08 09:38:04 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Was this feature removed or it is hidden behind some flag?
2021-03-08 09:38:20 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-03-08 09:38:22 +0100 <Uniaika> arrowsvc_: what command exactly are you typing?
2021-03-08 09:38:34 +0100 <arrowsvc_> cabal new-build
2021-03-08 09:38:49 +0100 <Uniaika> heya coot, sorry for the latency on your Haddock PR, we had to make a release yesterday
2021-03-08 09:38:55 +0100 <Uniaika> arrowsvc_: before that?
2021-03-08 09:39:16 +0100 <Uniaika> arrowsvc_: you don't use `cabal unpack`?
2021-03-08 09:39:21 +0100encod3(~encod3@45-154-157-94.ftth.glasoperator.nl)
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2021-03-08 09:39:54 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Before that I fetch vector-0.12.2.0.tar.gz manually and unpack it into my project's dir.
2021-03-08 09:40:26 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Nope, I have to use `fetch` utility, but this shouldn't matter.
2021-03-08 09:40:28 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-03-08 09:41:21 +0100 <Uniaika> arrowsvc_: what's the URL you're using for vector?
2021-03-08 09:42:36 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Hackage one: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-0.12.2.0/vector-0.12.2.0.tar.gz
2021-03-08 09:42:53 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com)
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2021-03-08 09:48:56 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Hmmm, I now tried producing this using cabal get and it worked.
2021-03-08 09:49:29 +0100 <arrowsvc_> I also did not wipe ~/.cabal before running `cabal new-build` as I do in my case.
2021-03-08 09:52:48 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:ad8c:89aa:bf10:9556)
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2021-03-08 10:00:12 +0100oreoking[m](oreokingma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ripwtpvetljdzkho) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
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2021-03-08 10:00:20 +0100 <arrowsvc_> -_\ wait, I used old cabal-install
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2021-03-08 10:08:49 +0100 <arrowsvc_> Aha. So the problem is with wiping ~/.cabal
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2021-03-08 10:34:03 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-03-08 10:34:17 +0100 <Gurkenglas> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.1.0/docs/GHC-Generics.html#g:12 <- "Note that this encoding strategy may not be reliable across different versions of GHC." oh man so in order to translate between save files for versions compiled with different versions of ghc you'd need to write an entirely separate de&serializer? :S
2021-03-08 10:35:04 +0100polyrain(~polyrain@124.177.21.171) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-08 10:35:08 +0100gitgood(~gitgood@82-132-219-133.dab.02.net)
2021-03-08 10:37:05 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 10:37:09 +0100shad0w_(31249a47@49.36.154.71)
2021-03-08 10:39:33 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 10:39:53 +0100 <Gurkenglas> "But the type argument is never being used. This may be changed at some point in the future." is obsolete with "What's different is that we now use Par1 to refer to the parameter" right?
2021-03-08 10:42:33 +0100kam1(~kam1@113.203.63.161) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 10:44:23 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-03-08 10:45:43 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-03-08 10:46:05 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: Repeat my mantra with me
2021-03-08 10:46:27 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: "If you care about future stability, you *always* have to write explicit (de)serialisers"
2021-03-08 10:47:06 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: The solution is to not use generics for (de)serialisation at all, but use something deterministic, so that "which GHC version was used" becomes irrelevant
2021-03-08 10:48:01 +0100 <Gurkenglas> merijn, I don't disagree, but why is there a serialization tutorial on GHC.Generics?
2021-03-08 10:48:40 +0100 <merijn> The simplest example the person writing it could think off that shows all features?
2021-03-08 10:48:42 +0100 <Gurkenglas> (for people who use it for communication between two programs that are always compiled immediately before rather than savefiles, I suppose)
2021-03-08 10:49:52 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: Generic is super confusing without an example and "serialising some stuff" is an easy/obvious answer anyone understands
2021-03-08 10:49:58 +0100linux_party(~linux_par@adsl-62.176.58.193.tellas.gr)
2021-03-08 10:50:01 +0100 <linux_party> iLinux OS rocks! https://ilinuxos.com/screenshots.html
2021-03-08 10:50:10 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-03-08 10:50:53 +0100 <Gurkenglas> I have a dream, that every update of a thing automatically comes with an updater for anything that uses it
2021-03-08 10:51:19 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: And it can be convenient, binary has generic support, so you can do "deriving (Generic); instance Binary Foo" to get (de)serialisation. It's completely not robust and ultra-hacky, but nice for quick one-off scripts
2021-03-08 10:51:39 +0100 <merijn> Gurkenglas: Custom parsers + version numbers at the start of all your data ;)
2021-03-08 10:51:41 +0100 <merijn> Also
2021-03-08 10:51:45 +0100 <merijn> @hackage safe-copy
2021-03-08 10:51:45 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/safe-copy
2021-03-08 10:51:53 +0100 <merijn> wait
2021-03-08 10:51:55 +0100 <merijn> Wrong name?
2021-03-08 10:52:11 +0100 <merijn> @hackage safecopy
2021-03-08 10:52:11 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/safecopy
2021-03-08 10:52:52 +0100 <merijn> Although I'd probably handle that stuff myself with explicit Get/Put from binary and version numbers
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2021-03-08 11:14:08 +0100 <fendor> can I tell ghcup to not use /tmp for downloading ghc artefacts? Seems like -c doesn't do anything
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2021-03-08 11:16:27 +0100cookielady(5f5ebd5c@a95-94-189-92.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-08 11:17:16 +0100 <cookielady> heya all what programs do you guys use? I am strating out and found the CTF . anyone uses it?
2021-03-08 11:19:50 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9814:d93f:56c2:c87) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 11:19:56 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-03-08 11:20:14 +0100romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-08 11:21:09 +0100polyrain_(~polyrain@2001:8003:e4d8:4101:7d30:68ba:9c0e:487e)
2021-03-08 11:23:14 +0100Bergle_2(~Bergle_4@101.165.90.119) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 11:23:33 +0100dunj3(~dunj3@2001:16b8:305c:2000:1ee1:f93:679:daad)
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2021-03-08 11:25:13 +0100dsrt^(nehsou@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-03-08 11:26:33 +0100sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net)
2021-03-08 11:27:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> fendor: you may have success by setting the TMPDIR environment variable to a path you like
2021-03-08 11:27:23 +0100 <tomsmeding> cookielady: what do you mean by CTF?
2021-03-08 11:28:17 +0100comerijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 11:28:49 +0100 <fendor> tomsmeding, yep, that did it
2021-03-08 11:29:03 +0100idhugo_(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net)
2021-03-08 11:29:08 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-08 11:29:12 +0100idhugo(~idhugo@87-49-147-45-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 11:29:15 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-03-08 11:29:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> fendor: that's a sort-of convention that many CLI programs use, by virtue of using mktemp(1)
2021-03-08 11:29:52 +0100nrh^(nrh@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
2021-03-08 11:30:18 +0100rmk236(~lcampos@2a02:908:3616:b100:71e8:2810:9bc6:b1cc)
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2021-03-08 11:30:30 +0100 <fendor> tomsmeding, indeed, but the documentation fpr the -c option confused me: "-c,--cache Cache downloads in ~/.ghcup/cache (default: disabled)"
2021-03-08 11:30:41 +0100 <fendor> So I would have figured it should work, too
2021-03-08 11:30:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 11:30:58 +0100 <fendor> Ah I see
2021-03-08 11:31:00 +0100 <fendor> it does work
2021-03-08 11:31:10 +0100 <fendor> but the building still happens in TMPDIR
2021-03-08 11:31:13 +0100Bergle_1(~Bergle_4@101.165.90.119)
2021-03-08 11:31:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> fendor: ah, that's probably cache _after_ download completed, for successive invocations of ghcup; it perhaps still extracts in TMPDIR
2021-03-08 11:31:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> yes that
2021-03-08 11:34:58 +0100 <kuribas> Gurkenglas: no proper serializer should depend on the nesting order of the Generics tree.
2021-03-08 11:36:19 +0100 <cookielady> well how do you say i shiuld start with? CTF is the capture the flag .
2021-03-08 11:36:26 +0100 <cookielady> should*
2021-03-08 11:38:31 +0100mananamenos_(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-08 11:38:52 +0100m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de)
2021-03-08 11:41:22 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-08 11:43:15 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-08 11:43:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> cookielady: capture-the-flag challenges for haskell? I haven't seen those yet :p
2021-03-08 11:44:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> do you have other programming experience? or are you starting out in general?
2021-03-08 11:44:27 +0100 <Philonous> hlint keeps complaining that I should replace »case bool-expression of True -> this; False -> that« with if-then-else. Am I the only one who prefers case in most situations except short inline expressions?
2021-03-08 11:45:07 +0100 <cookielady> i use to have but it was like more 10 years ago.. i think i remember nthing
2021-03-08 11:45:15 +0100 <cookielady> but really need to start up haha
2021-03-08 11:45:25 +0100 <cookielady> no not for haskell haha
2021-03-08 11:48:22 +0100aarvar1(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:3d29:8370:5f36:8c65)
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2021-03-08 11:49:55 +0100Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-03-08 11:50:19 +0100AlleriaGuest15380
2021-03-08 11:52:24 +0100 <tomsmeding> Philonous: there are more hlint rules that I subjectively disagree with :p
2021-03-08 11:52:45 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 11:53:01 +0100 <cookielady> am trying to register but it says that me email is not valid , tried with 2 dif already
2021-03-08 11:53:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> cookielady: if you like maths-like exercises, try Project Euler
2021-03-08 11:53:26 +0100comerijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 11:53:40 +0100 <tomsmeding> if you like puzzle-like problems, try doing Advent of Code
2021-03-08 11:53:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> otherwise decide that you want to build something, and then try building it :p
2021-03-08 11:54:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 11:54:24 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d8fe:8116:376f:ddd2)
2021-03-08 11:54:39 +0100 <cookielady> comerijn: tomsmeding thank youu
2021-03-08 11:55:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> different people may have different advice :)
2021-03-08 11:56:06 +0100 <Philonous> I always felt that Project Euler didn't play particulalry well into the strengths of Haskell
2021-03-08 11:56:31 +0100 <cookielady> ty a lot . will do. am going to work now . will try as soon as i return home.
2021-03-08 11:56:46 +0100 <cookielady> hope to find you guys ariund when back
2021-03-08 11:56:50 +0100 <cookielady> around*
2021-03-08 11:56:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> cookielady: good luck :)
2021-03-08 11:58:37 +0100ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 11:59:43 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 12:00:23 +0100 <__monty__> I like the more recent coding challenge platforms like codewars.com, they have interesting haskell challenges, implementing variadic functions or (ab)using the type system as a theorem prover, for example.
2021-03-08 12:01:45 +0100 <Philonous> That sounds like fun, except it doesn't teach you have to use Haskell for anything practical.
2021-03-08 12:04:13 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 12:05:29 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 12:05:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 12:07:26 +0100vchlup_(~vchlup@nat.brnet.cz)
2021-03-08 12:07:30 +0100vchlup(~vchlup@nat.brnet.cz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-08 12:09:26 +0100 <__monty__> It's not as if Project Euler does.
2021-03-08 12:09:56 +0100 <__monty__> I was suggesting it as an alternative to venerable challenge sites.
2021-03-08 12:10:33 +0100 <__monty__> Some people don't care about practical stuff, just about learning something new.
2021-03-08 12:11:05 +0100sablib(~sablib@171.113.165.91)
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2021-03-08 12:34:51 +0100shad0w_(31249a47@49.36.154.71)
2021-03-08 12:34:55 +0100 <shad0w_> hi all
2021-03-08 12:35:02 +0100 <shad0w_> `readNumber txt =
2021-03-08 12:35:02 +0100 <shad0w_>   case decimal txt of
2021-03-08 12:35:03 +0100 <shad0w_>     Right (n, rest) | T.null rest -> pure n`
2021-03-08 12:35:20 +0100 <shad0w_> what is this thing where you pattern match on the result of the applied function called?
2021-03-08 12:35:39 +0100 <shad0w_> is it an extension ?
2021-03-08 12:38:47 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 12:39:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 12:39:40 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-08 12:41:04 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 12:42:05 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 12:42:31 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 12:43:41 +0100 <xsperry> just pattern matching. it doesn't have a separate name. it is part of standard haskell
2021-03-08 12:44:06 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 12:45:11 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 12:45:29 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 12:47:54 +0100 <kuribas> standard only supports boolean guards.
2021-03-08 12:48:12 +0100 <kuribas> f | someTest "foo" = ...
2021-03-08 12:49:10 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.82.20)
2021-03-08 12:49:10 +0100 <kuribas> with pattern guards you can match on anything: addLookup env var1 var2 | Just val1 <- lookup env var1
2021-03-08 12:49:21 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-08 12:49:42 +0100 <kuribas> ah, it's part of the haskell 2010 standard https://wiki.haskell.org/Pattern_guard
2021-03-08 12:52:50 +0100 <Philonous> The name shad0w_ was looking for is "guard" in any case
2021-03-08 12:53:08 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 12:53:21 +0100alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.142)
2021-03-08 12:53:25 +0100 <shad0w_> but guards have a `=` syntax ?
2021-03-08 12:53:29 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-03-08 12:53:39 +0100 <shad0w_> Philonous: ^
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2021-03-08 12:55:19 +0100 <Philonous> shad0w_, No, the »=« is part of the function definition syntax, if you use them in case expression it's a »->« because that's what case wants
2021-03-08 12:55:28 +0100gzj(~gzj@unaffiliated/gzj)
2021-03-08 12:55:44 +0100 <shad0w_> ah i see.
2021-03-08 12:55:57 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 12:56:01 +0100kam1(~kam1@113.203.63.161)
2021-03-08 12:56:04 +0100 <shad0w_> Philonous: 1006THANKS0610
2021-03-08 12:56:05 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-08 12:56:12 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.206.68) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-08 12:56:17 +0100 <Philonous> You mean something like »foo x | x > 5 = 3«, right ?
2021-03-08 12:56:51 +0100 <maerwald> fendor: yes you can set TMPDIR
2021-03-08 12:57:02 +0100 <fendor> maerwald, yep, did that and it worked, thanks!
2021-03-08 12:58:03 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2021-03-08 13:00:12 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
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2021-03-08 13:06:27 +0100shad0w_(31249a47@49.36.154.71)
2021-03-08 13:06:36 +0100 <shad0w_> 06Philonous: yes
2021-03-08 13:06:36 +0100 <shad0w_> 06
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2021-03-08 13:55:29 +0100m2rrorbird(~dwsjeid91@m83-187-177-242.cust.tele2.se)
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2021-03-08 13:58:02 +0100 <chisui> Hey, is there an alternative to `modifyIORef'` where the modifying function returns an `IO a`?
2021-03-08 14:00:02 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d8fe:8116:376f:ddd2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 14:02:16 +0100 <merijn> chisui: That'd lead to race conditions, though
2021-03-08 14:02:32 +0100 <merijn> chisui: I mean you can just "readIORef, do stuff, writeIORef"
2021-03-08 14:02:39 +0100 <lemmih> chisui: No but you can write it yourself. It cannot be atomic, though.
2021-03-08 14:03:02 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2021-03-08 14:03:32 +0100 <chisui> lemmih: what if I need somthing that is atomic?
2021-03-08 14:03:42 +0100 <merijn> chisui: "don't use IORef"
2021-03-08 14:03:45 +0100 <lemmih> chisui: Use an MVar.
2021-03-08 14:03:49 +0100 <merijn> Or TVar
2021-03-08 14:03:57 +0100ADG1089__(~aditya@223.226.235.12)
2021-03-08 14:04:03 +0100Aphex(uid70120@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbipwsxddmowtxzn)
2021-03-08 14:04:05 +0100 <chisui> Ah, Thanks lemmih, merjin
2021-03-08 14:04:18 +0100 <chisui> *merijn
2021-03-08 14:04:59 +0100 <hpc> and to answer the natural next question, MVar/TVar depends on if you want to lock or retry when threads are going after the same resource
2021-03-08 14:05:08 +0100 <hpc> MVar locks, TVar uses transactions
2021-03-08 14:06:02 +0100 <merijn> tbh, TVar locks too, but differently ;)
2021-03-08 14:06:07 +0100 <hpc> personally, whenever i need to use an IORef i automatically use MVar instead
2021-03-08 14:06:10 +0100 <hpc> heh
2021-03-08 14:06:31 +0100 <hpc> even in single-threaded applications
2021-03-08 14:06:38 +0100 <merijn> Yeah, IORef's are risky business
2021-03-08 14:07:03 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252)
2021-03-08 14:07:06 +0100 <chisui> Does IORef have any significant performance advantage above MVar?
2021-03-08 14:07:09 +0100 <merijn> hpc: No clue, but tbh you shouldn't really use the single threaded runtime anyway, too many broken corner cases
2021-03-08 14:07:16 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-08 14:07:16 +0100 <merijn> chisui: Define significant
2021-03-08 14:07:33 +0100 <merijn> What are you doing and why do you think the MVar overhead might be a bottle neck?
2021-03-08 14:07:40 +0100 <hpc> merijn: oh, i don't mean the single-threaded RTS, i just mean when i know my code doesn't have more than one thread
2021-03-08 14:07:59 +0100 <merijn> hpc: The multi-threaded RTS has to lock anyway, no?
2021-03-08 14:08:14 +0100 <merijn> hpc: Or do you expect it to detect and special case the single thread scenario?
2021-03-08 14:08:30 +0100 <chisui> merijn I writing logic solver and the Cells are currently IORefs
2021-03-08 14:08:58 +0100 <hpc> maybe you're misparsing what i wrote? "even when my code doesn't use threads, i use MVar instead of IORef"
2021-03-08 14:09:17 +0100 <hpc> (not "TVar locks too even in single-threaded applications")
2021-03-08 14:09:22 +0100 <merijn> hpc: Ah!
2021-03-08 14:09:49 +0100 <hpc> clearly irc needs threaded conversations :P
2021-03-08 14:10:14 +0100 <merijn> ugh, no
2021-03-08 14:11:28 +0100 <jacks2> what about atomicModifyIORef?
2021-03-08 14:11:43 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: That doesn't allow IO modification
2021-03-08 14:11:56 +0100 <jacks2> what do you mean?
2021-03-08 14:12:03 +0100 <jacks2> :t atomicModifyIORef
2021-03-08 14:12:05 +0100 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: atomicModifyIORef
2021-03-08 14:12:14 +0100 <jacks2> atomicModifyIORef :: IORef a -> (a -> (a, b)) -> IO b
2021-03-08 14:12:28 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: The original question was how to use 'a -> IO a' for modifyIORef
2021-03-08 14:12:31 +0100 <hpc> you have the power of (a -> a)
2021-03-08 14:12:35 +0100 <merijn> Rather theen "a -> a"
2021-03-08 14:13:23 +0100 <jacks2> so how does STM help here? you can't use IO in STM transaction either
2021-03-08 14:15:17 +0100 <chisui> The long and short is, I only want to modify a Ref if it satisfies a certain condition. The modification requires the value of other References though. I don't need transactions
2021-03-08 14:15:20 +0100LKoen_(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-08 14:16:37 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: The answer was "you can't use IORef"
2021-03-08 14:16:49 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: So use TVar/MVar instead of IORef
2021-03-08 14:17:00 +0100 <merijn> chisui: Sounds like you do
2021-03-08 14:17:27 +0100 <chisui> merijn: how so?
2021-03-08 14:18:04 +0100 <merijn> You said you needed something atomic for updating IORefs
2021-03-08 14:18:28 +0100 <merijn> If your atomic thing depends on the value of 1 or more other references, the only way to do that atomically is via transactions
2021-03-08 14:19:06 +0100 <jacks2> merijn, right, but modifyTVar also accepts (a -> a). modifyMVar accepts (a -> IO a), if that is really needed
2021-03-08 14:19:18 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: You don't use modifyTVar
2021-03-08 14:19:28 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: You can "read, compute, write" a TVar atomically
2021-03-08 14:19:38 +0100 <merijn> Like, that's the entire point of STM :p
2021-03-08 14:20:24 +0100 <chisui> merijn: It's a propagator network. It's ok if the values from other Cells are old but the value of the current one has to be current.
2021-03-08 14:20:51 +0100 <chisui> *the value of the one being modified has to be current
2021-03-08 14:21:06 +0100 <jacks2> merijn, we obviously some trouble communicating what me mean in here. you said " <merijn> jacks2: The original question was how to use 'a -> IO a' for modifyIORef" "<merijn> Rather theen "a -> a""
2021-03-08 14:21:18 +0100 <jacks2> TVar doesn't let you do that, just like IORef doesn't
2021-03-08 14:21:30 +0100astroanax(astroanax@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-zpthsvfoipdugkpc)
2021-03-08 14:21:35 +0100 <jacks2> so how is it an improvement?
2021-03-08 14:21:53 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: Both me and Lemmih remarked that you can do "read, compute, write" with IORef, but it is not atomic
2021-03-08 14:22:07 +0100 <merijn> The follow up was "i need atomic", followed by "then you need TVar"
2021-03-08 14:22:30 +0100 <jacks2> how can you do that atomically with TVar, when you can't use IO in transaction?
2021-03-08 14:22:31 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: You seem overfocussed on "modify<X>Var" over "what type do you need for the desired semantics"
2021-03-08 14:23:00 +0100 <merijn> Anyway, this is slowly turning in an entire orthogonal discussion from chisui's problem
2021-03-08 14:23:29 +0100 <merijn> chisui: But then you can easily solve things, no?
2021-03-08 14:24:00 +0100 <merijn> chisui: construct "IO a" that reads all old cells, then "atomicModifyIORef" the current cell based on the (possibly) old reads from old cells
2021-03-08 14:24:02 +0100 <chisui> My question is answered :D I'll use MVars and will be done with it
2021-03-08 14:24:19 +0100 <jacks2> merijn, let me put this as plainly as possible, what does TVar offer over atomicModifyIORef in this situation? absolutely nothing
2021-03-08 14:24:43 +0100 <merijn> chisui: "readOldCells :: IO Values" "updateFun :: Values -> (Values, ())"
2021-03-08 14:24:54 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: The ability to read other references atomically during an update
2021-03-08 14:25:02 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 14:25:07 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01cb0506313c00e14be01ac4a050f7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 14:25:17 +0100 <jacks2> "other references" wasn't part of the question
2021-03-08 14:25:38 +0100 <chisui> merijn: this way I would have to evaluate `readOldCells` regardless of whether or not I need to actually update the current cell through
2021-03-08 14:26:00 +0100 <merijn> chisui: eh, "updateFun :: Values -> Foo -> (Foo, ())" and then "readOldCells >>= \v -> atomicModifyIORef (updateFun v)"
2021-03-08 14:27:02 +0100 <chisui> merijn: That would still require readOldCells to always be executed.
2021-03-08 14:27:14 +0100 <merijn> jacks2: So? It was mentioned later. People are not robots and ask wrong, incomplete questions and expect people to extrapolate from context, rather than acting like genies and answering questions "as asked", rahter then "as intended"
2021-03-08 14:27:35 +0100 <merijn> chisui: tbh, the atomic STM approach is probably cheaper than MVar if you don't expect many conflicting updates to the same cells
2021-03-08 14:28:03 +0100 <merijn> chisui: STM uses optimistic locking so uncontested updates have almost no overhead
2021-03-08 14:28:27 +0100 <merijn> chisui: But that depends on many conflicting updates you expect to happen
2021-03-08 14:28:30 +0100 <chisui> merijn: I actually expect conflicting updates, since I write from many threads.
2021-03-08 14:28:42 +0100 <merijn> chisui: Yeah, but how frequently? :p
2021-03-08 14:28:57 +0100 <merijn> Like, 100% of your updates, 50% of your updates, or 10% of them ;)
2021-03-08 14:31:02 +0100 <merijn> chisui: Basically, STM assumes it will succeed, run a computation and at the end it will check nothing has happened "in between". So if 2 threads are trying to update the same TVar, one will win, the other will rollback and "redo" the computation. The cost of that depends on how frequently your concurrent updates happen to conflict.
2021-03-08 14:31:05 +0100 <chisui> The values of the cells are semilattices (like Set) and they collect facts. These facts are propagated through the entire network all the time, since it's the main form of communication in the system
2021-03-08 14:32:13 +0100 <chisui> I'll have to measure what the actual frequency is.
2021-03-08 14:33:00 +0100 <merijn> chisui: Gut feeling is ok. Suppose you have thousands of cells and ten threads, if those threads are somewhat randomly updating cells, conflicts should be fairly rare, for example
2021-03-08 14:33:30 +0100 <merijn> chisui: The optimistic locking is *considerably* faster then MVars in the non-conflicting case, so you can win quite a bit
2021-03-08 14:35:46 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zlhchyvsgfxybgra)
2021-03-08 14:37:17 +0100 <chisui> merijn: That sounds reasonable. I may have many `forkIO` threads writing, but the actual number of threads woll be low
2021-03-08 14:37:19 +0100 <chisui> *will
2021-03-08 14:37:42 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116)
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2021-03-08 14:38:28 +0100 <merijn> chisui: So unless you expect to have like 10s of threads repeatedly racing on one cell it'll probably be better to go straight to STM and skip MVar
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2021-03-08 14:41:45 +0100 <chisui> Thank you merijn
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2021-03-08 15:28:06 +0100 <Gurkenglas> A total function is one that maps total inputs to total outputs (nonfunctions are total if there are no undefineds). newtype Bot = Bot { unBot :: Bot -> Bool }. What Bots are total? There may be multiple fixed points, and no obvious reason for there to be a least or greatest one. But nice = Bot $ const True is total. So is paladin = Bot $ \x -> unBot x nice. So is ditto = Bot (\x -> unBot x x): If x is total, applying it to itself will be
2021-03-08 15:28:06 +0100 <Gurkenglas> total. But wait: unBot ditto ditto diverges, so it can't be total! Therefore there is no fixed point. But I was still able to meaningfully call paladin total. Is there a theory that lets me talk about these meaningful statements?
2021-03-08 15:28:49 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> How do I type a function to deal with both `Maybe a` and `a`?
2021-03-08 15:29:01 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.42.24.161)
2021-03-08 15:29:18 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-176.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-08 15:29:21 +0100Pickchea(~private@unaffiliated/pickchea)
2021-03-08 15:29:51 +0100 <jacks2> accept a, use fmap to use it with Maybe a
2021-03-08 15:29:57 +0100 <geekosaur> heck-to-the-gnom, they're different types, you can't treat them as the same (aside from the same way `id` does)
2021-03-08 15:30:02 +0100 <merijn> heck-to-the-gnom: You don't
2021-03-08 15:30:06 +0100LKoen_(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-08 15:30:12 +0100 <Gurkenglas> heck-to-the-gnom, do you want a way to add a default result to a function that takes a, so it can handle Maybe a?
2021-03-08 15:30:49 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 15:31:08 +0100 <pjb> heck-to-the-gnom: data Both a = Maybe a | Only a ; foo :: Both a -> a
2021-03-08 15:31:48 +0100 <pjb> Of course, there's not much difference between Just a and Only a…
2021-03-08 15:31:58 +0100 <Gurkenglas> > maybe 3 (+1) (Just 10)
2021-03-08 15:32:00 +0100 <lambdabot> 11
2021-03-08 15:32:02 +0100 <Gurkenglas> > maybe 3 (+1) Nothing
2021-03-08 15:32:03 +0100 <lambdabot> 3
2021-03-08 15:32:04 +0100 <Gurkenglas> Is this what you want?
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2021-03-08 15:40:12 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> Upon looking at my errors closer, I think what I actually want is how to convert to Maybe. Gurkenglas, I think that's what I want. Why's there a +1 in there?
2021-03-08 15:40:40 +0100 <geekosaur> it's an example
2021-03-08 15:41:11 +0100 <geekosaur> it's showing how to perform some operation (here, (+1)) "through" a Maybe to the value contained within, if any
2021-03-08 15:41:16 +0100 <jacks2> heck-to-the-gnom, what's the big picture
2021-03-08 15:42:03 +0100heck-to-the-gnomuploaded an image: image.png (31KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vJiaIdLaVNmAhNjnloqEapIL/image.png >
2021-03-08 15:42:07 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> jacks2 ^
2021-03-08 15:43:30 +0100 <dolio> Gurkenglas: The place that 'total' and 'partial' vocabulary come from don't allow you to define a type like that, so I'm not sure it makes sense to expect it to hold up in that situation.
2021-03-08 15:44:13 +0100 <Gurkenglas> dolio, then imagine i said "cool" instead of "total"
2021-03-08 15:44:35 +0100CodeAlways(uid272474@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzvbbhipleasvhkv)
2021-03-08 15:44:52 +0100 <dolio> Okay, then your specification of 'cool' is incoherent.
2021-03-08 15:46:46 +0100 <dolio> Or the application, I guess.
2021-03-08 15:48:43 +0100 <dolio> I guess maybe you could pin the flaw in your reasoning on thinking that 'unbot' is total.
2021-03-08 15:49:16 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-08 15:49:20 +0100 <dolio> What happens if you classify `unBot` as non-total?
2021-03-08 15:50:24 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net)
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2021-03-08 15:51:56 +0100 <dolio> Anyhow, negative types are pretty well known to allow you to write paradox type stuff.
2021-03-08 15:52:19 +0100 <dolio> And they only have semantics in stuff like domains and general recursion.
2021-03-08 15:53:24 +0100 <dolio> Basically because assuming that one exists lets you write some sort of general recursion. In this case it would give you general recursion on Bool.
2021-03-08 15:53:47 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.183.154)
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2021-03-08 15:55:40 +0100 <dolio> Domain theory is the most fleshed out stuff I know of that studies more detailed accounts of what is going on here, though.
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2021-03-08 15:58:44 +0100 <dolio> And I'm not sure they use 'total' and 'partial', since things can generally be a lot more complicated than e.g. 'sets and total/partial functions' in that setting.
2021-03-08 15:59:05 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv)
2021-03-08 15:59:10 +0100 <dolio> The set setting is only really adequate for very simple, flat domains.
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2021-03-08 16:14:02 +0100thunderrd(~thunderrd@183.182.115.72)
2021-03-08 16:18:01 +0100 <d34df00d> siraben: https://github.com/bos/vector-binary-instances/blob/master/Data/Vector/Binary.hs#L91-L99 — that's re unsafePerformIO.
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2021-03-08 16:43:57 +0100 <Gurkenglas> Shouldn't https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/jeremy.gibbons/publications/fast+loose.pdf -> (69) use Nu rather than Mu?
2021-03-08 16:44:31 +0100 <dolio> Depends.
2021-03-08 16:45:05 +0100 <dolio> Oh, you're talking about a specific equation.
2021-03-08 16:45:47 +0100stree(~stree@68.36.8.116) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 16:45:59 +0100 <dolio> ν does seem more appropriate for that.
2021-03-08 16:47:00 +0100 <dolio> Oh, but they say why just after.
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2021-03-08 16:58:05 +0100 <Gurkenglas> i think i see... but if they were gonna cheat like that, shouldnt they have more explicitly said "since we are now reasoning partially, μ = ν" and used their own unfold?
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2021-03-08 17:01:30 +0100 <dolio> Well, they're not equal. Just isomorphic.
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2021-03-08 17:08:04 +0100shellin(bab72422@186.183.36.34) ()
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2021-03-08 17:11:23 +0100 <Gurkenglas> ah they say in 10.3 that 10.2 could "go for coinductive instead of inductive lists, and replace the approximation lemma with the take lemma"
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2021-03-08 17:30:06 +0100 <zebrag> > let {h :: Int -> Char -> [Char]; h _ _ = "Hello"; a = Just 3; b = Just 'a'} in fmap (\(x,y) -> fmap y x) (fmap (\x -> (b,x)) (fmap h a)) -- Supposing I know no specifics of the functor (here Maybe), I don't think I can collapse the result. So I lifted a multi-argument function, but the result is twice encapsulated.
2021-03-08 17:30:08 +0100 <lambdabot> Just (Just "Hello")
2021-03-08 17:32:21 +0100 <zebrag> So "every functor is an applicative" is far from being a fact so far.
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2021-03-08 17:41:36 +0100 <zebrag> Of course I could apply `join` on that, but that'd be assuming the functor is a monad, that'd be defeating the purpose.
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2021-03-08 17:51:13 +0100 <muzimuzhi> doc typo: unpaired left brace "(" in doc for PostfixOperators language extension
2021-03-08 17:51:13 +0100 <muzimuzhi> In doc
2021-03-08 17:51:14 +0100 <muzimuzhi>   (for any expression e and operator (!).
2021-03-08 17:51:14 +0100 <muzimuzhi> the "(" before "for" is unpaired.
2021-03-08 17:51:15 +0100 <muzimuzhi> doc: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/exts/rebindable_syntax.html#postfix…
2021-03-08 17:51:15 +0100 <muzimuzhi> source: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/docs/users_guide/exts/rebindable_syntax.rst#L143
2021-03-08 17:51:16 +0100 <muzimuzhi> I was too lazy to post an issue to gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc, so sorry.
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2021-03-08 18:08:56 +0100 <lyxia> I sent a fix
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2021-03-08 18:14:57 +0100nrh^(nrh@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
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2021-03-08 18:20:33 +0100 <muzimuzhi> @lyx
2021-03-08 18:20:34 +0100 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: thx let
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2021-03-08 18:21:17 +0100 <muzimuzhi> lyxia I think you mean https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/5203, thanks.
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2021-03-08 18:41:31 +0100Techcable_Techcable
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2021-03-08 18:44:25 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-08 18:44:46 +0100 <ep1ctetus> Hi, I have a record of data I want to save and read again later, does anyone recommend a format to save it in? I have used JSON in the past, so I'm leaning towards that
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2021-03-08 18:46:27 +0100 <pavonia> The quick-and-dirty solution is to just use the Show and Read instances
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2021-03-08 18:46:33 +0100 <raehik> ep1ctetus: is this a Haskell-specific question? Aeson can do this for you without much hassle, but it will depend on your data. can you give any more details?
2021-03-08 18:46:42 +0100aggin(~ecm@103.88.87.36) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-08 18:46:43 +0100 <raehik> (*Aeson being a JSON lib for Haskell)
2021-03-08 18:47:40 +0100 <raehik> pavonia's right, Show and Read is easier but depends further on using simple data types
2021-03-08 18:48:16 +0100 <ep1ctetus> raehik: sure, It's going to be a list of ~100 entries with a 3-field record. I have a similar system in Python and the files are max 25KB
2021-03-08 18:48:22 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:11c5:786:f774:d85e)
2021-03-08 18:48:56 +0100 <ep1ctetus> so you're saying you would just use show and write the result to a file, then read to get it back out
2021-03-08 18:49:01 +0100 <ep1ctetus> I don't see anything wrong with that
2021-03-08 18:49:43 +0100 <raehik> that's quickest and easiest especially if you won't be using the data for anything else inbetween
2021-03-08 18:49:51 +0100muzimuzhi(32740d90@50.116.13.144) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-08 18:49:53 +0100 <charukiewicz> ep1ctetus: The benefit of JSON is that the format is a bit more portable, in case you need to read it from anything other than Haskell
2021-03-08 18:50:29 +0100 <charukiewicz> If this is a hermetically sealed application, then Show/Read should be fine
2021-03-08 18:50:44 +0100 <ep1ctetus> no, it's not going to be used for anything in between -- the JSON system I've used before saves from another program and then is read by a Haskell program
2021-03-08 18:50:55 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-08 18:50:56 +0100 <ep1ctetus> ok, great! glad I asked
2021-03-08 18:51:00 +0100mirrorbird(~dwsjeid91@2a00:801:3f8:23a5:cea1:f987:d427:ba9b)
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2021-03-08 19:29:02 +0100 <curiousgay> is there a metapackage that installs haskell platform from stack?
2021-03-08 19:30:35 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:9814:d93f:56c2:c87)
2021-03-08 19:31:13 +0100hiptobecubic(~john@unaffiliated/hiptobecubic) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-08 19:31:48 +0100ozataman(~ozataman@pool-100-37-221-69.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-03-08 19:35:44 +0100 <geekosaur> haskell platform's more or less dead
2021-03-08 19:36:27 +0100seanparsons(~sean@cpc145088-gill21-2-0-cust281.20-1.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-08 19:36:56 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru) ()
2021-03-08 19:37:14 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-03-08 19:37:32 +0100jrqc(~rofl@96.78.87.197)
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2021-03-08 19:39:05 +0100 <APugNamedPugsley> When setting up stack in Windows 10, the installer asks if I want to set %STACK_ROOT% to C:\sr what does this do?
2021-03-08 19:40:13 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tavdfvfumkaqxbyk) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-08 19:41:25 +0100 <curiousgay> after installing stack on void linux `xbps-install -S stack` I can't install anything via it
2021-03-08 19:41:34 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru) (Client Quit)
2021-03-08 19:41:48 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru)
2021-03-08 19:42:28 +0100 <curiousgay> No setup information found for ghc-8.10.4 on your platform. This probably means a GHC bindist has not yet been added for OS key 'linux64-ncurses6'. Supported versions: ghc-7.10.3, ghc-8.0.1, ghc-8.0.2, ghc-8.2.1, ghc-8.2.2
2021-03-08 19:42:41 +0100 <NieDzejkob> why does `main = sequence $ print <$> xs where xs = sequence $ replicate n [1..n]` leak space? n=8 takes a gigabyte of RAM
2021-03-08 19:43:45 +0100 <hololeap> curiousgay, geekosaur: what about https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs#table-of-contents
2021-03-08 19:43:52 +0100danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
2021-03-08 19:44:26 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 19:45:17 +0100 <curiousgay> gah, I didn't want to download binaries outside of void linux's repository
2021-03-08 19:49:37 +0100 <ephemient> NieDzejkob: try `sequence_`?
2021-03-08 19:50:45 +0100 <NieDzejkob> ephemient: that helps somewhat, now it takes 300m
2021-03-08 19:51:27 +0100 <hololeap> main = mapM_ print $ sequence_ ...
2021-03-08 19:51:43 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-08 19:51:54 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-08 19:52:13 +0100 <ephemient> no, sequence_ @[] doesn't make sense here, only sequence_ @IO
2021-03-08 19:52:18 +0100 <NieDzejkob> hololeap: I don't think I can use sequence_ in that instance,
2021-03-08 19:52:25 +0100 <NieDzejkob> yeah, exactly ^
2021-03-08 19:52:45 +0100 <ephemient> mapM_ print should have the same behavior as sequence_ . fmap print
2021-03-08 19:53:00 +0100 <NieDzejkob> though thanks for reminding me about mapM_'s existence :D
2021-03-08 19:53:02 +0100 <ephemient> so the remaining memory usage is probably due to sequence @[]
2021-03-08 19:53:22 +0100 <NieDzejkob> yeah, print $ length $ ... uses almost the same amount of memory
2021-03-08 19:53:57 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251)
2021-03-08 19:53:59 +0100mirrorbird(dwsjeid911@gateway/vpn/mullvad/dwsjeid911)
2021-03-08 19:54:23 +0100 <ephemient> e.g. if you imagine sequence specialized to list as being defined like sequence (xs:xss) = [(x:xs') | x <- xs, xs' <- sequence xss]
2021-03-08 19:57:02 +0100 <NieDzejkob> okay, looks like sequence = sequenceA = traverse id, and traverse for List is defined with foldr, so all the combinations of tl xs need to be stored
2021-03-08 19:58:56 +0100 <ephemient> I was trying to find the actual definition just now, you got there faster. yep, looks like inner list is shared so that accounts for the memory usage
2021-03-08 19:59:11 +0100 <NieDzejkob> what's the best way to fix that?
2021-03-08 19:59:18 +0100 <hololeap> :t \n -> sequence $ replicate n [1..n]
2021-03-08 19:59:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> [[Int]]
2021-03-08 20:00:00 +0100 <NieDzejkob> > sequence $ replicate 3 [1..3]
2021-03-08 20:00:03 +0100 <lambdabot> [[1,1,1],[1,1,2],[1,1,3],[1,2,1],[1,2,2],[1,2,3],[1,3,1],[1,3,2],[1,3,3],[2,...
2021-03-08 20:00:05 +0100gitgood(~gitgood@82-132-219-97.dab.02.net)
2021-03-08 20:00:10 +0100quackrabbit(8102b464@129-2-180-100.wireless.umd.edu)
2021-03-08 20:01:14 +0100 <ephemient> try defining your own sequence like I did there? as long as the recursive call isn't shared I think it'll be O(n)
2021-03-08 20:01:38 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-08 20:02:36 +0100ADG1089__(~aditya@223.226.235.12)
2021-03-08 20:03:09 +0100 <NieDzejkob> your definition still uses 300m
2021-03-08 20:03:26 +0100berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-08 20:03:31 +0100 <hololeap> maybe define it with foldr and BangPatterns ?
2021-03-08 20:03:53 +0100 <hololeap> i would suggest foldl', but that would mess up the order
2021-03-08 20:04:01 +0100 <NieDzejkob> oh, but only with -O. without optimizations, it's well-behaved
2021-03-08 20:04:50 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:04:53 +0100HenryCH(~henry@2001:8e0:2003:e600:f81a:d892:d808:737d)
2021-03-08 20:04:56 +0100 <ephemient> hololeap, I don't see what BangPatterns would help
2021-03-08 20:05:26 +0100 <koz_> What's the goal here? Print a big-as list?
2021-03-08 20:05:29 +0100 <hololeap> doesn't BangPatterns allow you to define eager evaluation in a function?
2021-03-08 20:05:37 +0100 <ephemient> NieDzejkob, yeah if CSE lifts it for sharing...
2021-03-08 20:05:50 +0100 <ephemient> hololeap: that's not the issue
2021-03-08 20:06:17 +0100 <hololeap> oh...
2021-03-08 20:06:29 +0100 <NieDzejkob> koz_: pretty much, print all combinations with replacement
2021-03-08 20:06:53 +0100 <NieDzejkob> in my actual code I run another map over the list of combinations, but that's not relevant here
2021-03-08 20:06:58 +0100 <koz_> NieDzejkob: I think you're being bitten by the fact that lists stop being lazy when they touch IO.
2021-03-08 20:07:04 +0100 <koz_> Aka 'the thing pipes was written to fix'.
2021-03-08 20:07:14 +0100 <ephemient> looks just like https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/12620 actually
2021-03-08 20:07:14 +0100augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:7293:21b:60d:209c) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:07:30 +0100 <NieDzejkob> koz_: not really, evaluating length of the list also takes the same memory
2021-03-08 20:07:49 +0100 <koz_> OK, then ephemient is probably right.
2021-03-08 20:08:19 +0100thevishy(~Nishant@103.210.43.206) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-08 20:08:50 +0100geekosaur(82650c7a@130.101.12.122)
2021-03-08 20:09:11 +0100 <ephemient> -I - fno-cse :-/
2021-03-08 20:09:47 +0100 <ephemient> err, autocorrect turned my -O into - I
2021-03-08 20:10:21 +0100Mrbuck(~Mrbuck@gateway/tor-sasl/mrbuck) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2021-03-08 20:10:29 +0100nineonin_(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-03-08 20:10:55 +0100jacks2(~bc8134e3@217.29.117.252) (Quit: http://www.okay.uz/)
2021-03-08 20:12:01 +0100 <NieDzejkob> -O -fno-cse still leaks
2021-03-08 20:13:50 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d8fe:8116:376f:ddd2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:14:03 +0100 <ephemient> hmm I don't know how to prevent that from happening then. :-(
2021-03-08 20:15:49 +0100barnowl_(~barnowl@gateway/tor-sasl/barnowl)
2021-03-08 20:16:31 +0100HenryCH(~henry@2001:8e0:2003:e600:f81a:d892:d808:737d) ()
2021-03-08 20:16:38 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01cb0506313c00e14be01ac4a050f7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-03-08 20:18:02 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:20:25 +0100 <dolio> It can't be due to that cse example. The reason the cse example uses memory is that [1..] is retained. However, [1..8] is not big, nor is the list of 8 copies of [1..8].
2021-03-08 20:21:00 +0100 <NieDzejkob> it's the xs' <- sequence xss that gets retained
2021-03-08 20:21:05 +0100 <NieDzejkob> and it's of size 7^8
2021-03-08 20:21:17 +0100 <NieDzejkob> or 8^7, whatever
2021-03-08 20:21:22 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-03-08 20:29:09 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net) ("Error from remote client")
2021-03-08 20:29:54 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@50.43.26.251)
2021-03-08 20:30:43 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2021-03-08 20:31:23 +0100waleee-cl(uid373333@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jygrmrkardidqebh)
2021-03-08 20:31:26 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-32-214.nat.spd-mgts.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 20:33:24 +0100ystael(~ystael@209.6.50.55) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:33:30 +0100 <koz_> Try something like 'runEffect $ each (sequence . replicate 3 $ [1 .. 3]) >-> P.print' using pipes stuff.
2021-03-08 20:33:43 +0100 <koz_> Raise the 3s to 8s and see if it still has the same memory issues.
2021-03-08 20:34:50 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2603:300c:3ec:c0f0:dc2a:3f3:5dcc:77f4)
2021-03-08 20:35:33 +0100 <koz_> (P here is Pipes.Prelude, and Pipes is imported for each, runEffect and >->)
2021-03-08 20:36:00 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-08 20:36:18 +0100malumore(~malumore@151.62.126.188) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:40:48 +0100__minoru__shirae(~shiraeesh@46.34.207.143)
2021-03-08 20:43:29 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:45:35 +0100tfl^(tfl@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2021-03-08 20:46:28 +0100smctwo(~smctwo@86.98.5.100)
2021-03-08 20:46:38 +0100 <monochrom> NieDzejkob: -fno-full-laziness is also worth a try
2021-03-08 20:46:56 +0100 <dolio> This isn't caused by optimizations.
2021-03-08 20:47:06 +0100 <monochrom> Ah OK sorry.
2021-03-08 20:47:44 +0100 <NieDzejkob> the sequence (xs:xss) = [(x:xs') | x <- xs, xs' <- sequence xss] version is caused by optimizations, as compiling without -O gives the proper memory usage
2021-03-08 20:51:36 +0100 <monochrom> You may want this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3190098/space-leak-in-list-program/5494561#5494561
2021-03-08 20:51:39 +0100notzmv(~zmv@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 20:52:03 +0100 <monochrom> It is kind of well known actually. Oleg also complained bitterly on haskell-cafe.
2021-03-08 20:52:29 +0100Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpmnsdwmroeaiymh) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-08 20:53:00 +0100 <koz_> OK, tried that thing above with 8s. No memory leaks at all.
2021-03-08 20:56:10 +0100 <dolio> Oh, okay. I guess I was breaking my own rule. In ghci it behaves poorly regardless.
2021-03-08 20:56:22 +0100 <dolio> Even with -fno-it.
2021-03-08 20:57:05 +0100 <curiousgay> hololeap: well, actual solution to problem was simply installing ncurses-tinfo-libs in void linux, without that stack refuses to work
2021-03-08 20:57:51 +0100kiweun(~kiweun@2607:fea8:2a62:9600:4005:e720:96ce:453e) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 20:57:55 +0100 <hololeap> curiousgay: hm, ok
2021-03-08 20:58:19 +0100 <dolio> The full laziness flag would be more likely to matter, because there's no common subexpression in that code.
2021-03-08 20:58:46 +0100jakalx(~jakalx@base.jakalx.net)
2021-03-08 21:00:17 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@194.250.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-08 21:00:22 +0100ByteEater(57cd846a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.87.205.132.106)
2021-03-08 21:00:59 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.82.20) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-08 21:01:40 +0100arrowsvc_(~arr@2.93.163.35) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-08 21:05:04 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-08 21:06:16 +0100frozenErebus(~frozenEre@94.128.82.20)
2021-03-08 21:06:39 +0100 <ephemient> right, I realize now that it's not literally CSE, it's just floating one single subexpression
2021-03-08 21:07:14 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp)
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2021-03-08 22:26:43 +0100 <dolio> I think what GHC considers for CSE is pretty limited, too.
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2021-03-08 22:29:27 +0100 <dolio> Like, if you do case analysis on the same thing twice, where one case is nested under the other, it might replace it with one case analysis.
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2021-03-08 22:55:38 +0100 <monochrom> Yes, GHC is pretty happy to eliminate duplicate pattern matching, e.g., https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-April/107775.html
2021-03-08 22:56:40 +0100 <monochrom> But also pretty reluctant in general CSE.
2021-03-08 22:57:10 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, you need to be doing something at least a little weird.
2021-03-08 22:58:06 +0100 <dolio> I wouldn't be surprised if most CSE it does isn't something the programmer writes, but caused by optimizations.
2021-03-08 22:58:33 +0100 <dolio> Like inlining of those test-and-project definitions.
2021-03-08 22:58:39 +0100dddddd(~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-08 22:58:44 +0100 <monochrom> SPJ's Core talk has a lot about details of optimizing pattern matching in the 2nd half. https://youtu.be/uR_VzYxvbxg
2021-03-08 23:00:18 +0100dddddd(~dddddd@unaffiliated/dddddd)
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2021-03-08 23:02:32 +0100 <dolio> Also, if you think about it, that corresponds considerably more closely to what CSE would do in an eager language. You CSE because you're pre-evaluating the same thing twice in a scope before continuing.
2021-03-08 23:02:57 +0100 <dolio> Not just naming the same expression twice.
2021-03-08 23:03:07 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah, that's a good perspective.
2021-03-08 23:04:23 +0100 <monochrom> Whereas CSE on lazy expressions can cost more space than worthwhile.
2021-03-08 23:04:41 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:11c5:786:f774:d85e) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2021-03-08 23:05:12 +0100alx741(~alx741@186.178.108.96)
2021-03-08 23:06:49 +0100 <monochrom> Very nice way to look at it. Thanks dolio.
2021-03-08 23:08:26 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d8fe:8116:376f:ddd2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-08 23:08:35 +0100 <dolio> I guess you could still run into issues because of deeper laziness, but you'd have to be doing something a bit odd.
2021-03-08 23:09:10 +0100 <evrgreen> Is it possible to `instance Data.Aeson.ToJSON (Data.Array.Array Int Int)`? I get `No instance for (Generic (Data.Array.Array Int Int)) ...`
2021-03-08 23:10:05 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:246b:c0a0:2c4b:51c3)
2021-03-08 23:10:20 +0100 <evrgreen> Hoping to do derive it automatically rather than writing my ToJSON.
2021-03-08 23:10:31 +0100 <monochrom> Do you mind using Vector instead of Array? I think aeson has done Vector.
2021-03-08 23:11:59 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> if I have a type synonym of `ex = Int -> Int` is it possible to do something like `xyz :: ex -> Int` where that would really be `xyz :: Int -> Int -> Int` instead of `(Int -> Int) -> Int`?
2021-03-08 23:12:53 +0100 <monochrom> I think "type ex = Int->Int" is a syntax error. Need to capitalize "ex". type Ex = Int->Int
2021-03-08 23:12:56 +0100jluttine(~jluttine@85-23-95-149.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-08 23:13:37 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> OK, that was pseudo Haskell, but what about my question?
2021-03-08 23:13:39 +0100 <monochrom> Ex->Int will always mean (Int->Int)->Int. This is syntax tree substitution not textual substitution.
2021-03-08 23:13:56 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> but... Is there a way to do that?
2021-03-08 23:14:04 +0100 <monochrom> #define?
2021-03-08 23:14:08 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> aside from a makefile script that changes occurrences or something
2021-03-08 23:14:40 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> You can do that in Haskell?
2021-03-08 23:15:13 +0100 <monochrom> Normally we use C preprocesor stuff for conditional compilation. But yes that means you have full access to #define tricks.
2021-03-08 23:15:48 +0100 <monochrom> and you add {-# language CPP #-}
2021-03-08 23:16:04 +0100 <monochrom> It's a total kludge, yes.
2021-03-08 23:16:30 +0100 <monochrom> The "alternative" is Template Haskell which is way more complex for this use case, but more disciplined.
2021-03-08 23:16:46 +0100 <monochrom> But my real opinion is "just don't do it".
2021-03-08 23:17:06 +0100jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55) (Quit: jb55)
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2021-03-08 23:17:19 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> I just have a decent number of types that have a lot in common, and I'm trying to make it easier to understand
2021-03-08 23:17:56 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps look for another commanlity.
2021-03-08 23:18:19 +0100 <evrgreen> I oversimplified my example; the index is really a tuple (a 2D coordinate). But I see one can do multidimensional vectors, so I'll try that... https://wiki.haskell.org/Numeric_Haskell:_A_Vector_Tutorial#Simple_example
2021-03-08 23:18:20 +0100jb55(~jb55@gateway/tor-sasl/jb55)
2021-03-08 23:19:26 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah evrgreen, I was going to say that a compromise is you still write your own ToJSON instance but you just convert to Vector then toJSON the Vector.
2021-03-08 23:20:08 +0100 <evrgreen> Oh, yes. Much better than changing my core data type.
2021-03-08 23:21:02 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-08 23:21:42 +0100 <monochrom> The fundamental issue IMO is that JSON itself doesn't have any notion of "array but the index range is not 0..n-1" in the first place.
2021-03-08 23:22:20 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
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2021-03-08 23:23:19 +0100 <heck-to-the-gnom> Another question, I've copied code from another module, and this module has a public method, but even though all the imports are there, and are similitude when I use it (in the same way) within the copied code it gives me a variable not in scope error. What's up here?
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2021-03-08 23:36:15 +0100 <lyxia> heck-to-the-gnom: you did not rename correctly, or not all of the imports are actually there, for example if the code depends on other unexported definitions in that other module.
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2021-03-08 23:51:39 +0100JokerAscensionEx(~egp_@2.95.74.168)
2021-03-08 23:52:11 +0100 <arahael> monochrom: At a pinch, you could use an object where the keys are your non-zero-based array indexes.
2021-03-08 23:54:14 +0100 <Axman6> heck-to-the-gnom: type Ex a = Int -> Int -> a? xyz :: Ex Int -- a.k.a Int -> Int -> Int
2021-03-08 23:54:39 +0100 <ephemient> not exactly legal JSON, but in JS [, 1, 2, 3] is allowed... that's an array with the first (valid) index at 1, sorta :D
2021-03-08 23:54:43 +0100mayleesia(4e37fceb@dynamic-078-055-252-235.78.55.pool.telefonica.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-08 23:55:53 +0100cookielady(5f5ebd5c@a95-94-189-92.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-08 23:56:06 +0100 <monochrom> yikes
2021-03-08 23:56:41 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-08 23:56:55 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-03-08 23:57:41 +0100danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-08 23:59:09 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> there is word for that thing in js, like "non-continuous indices" or something
2021-03-08 23:59:52 +0100Axman6wishes we had Ada style array indexing in Haskell natively