IRCBrowse

2021/03/02

2021-03-02 00:00:05 +0100araujo(~textual@unaffiliated/araujo) (Quit: see ya...)
2021-03-02 00:00:37 +0100araujo(~araujo@45.56.153.95)
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2021-03-02 00:00:38 +0100araujo(~araujo@unaffiliated/araujo)
2021-03-02 00:02:34 +0100 <Axman6> an IO Int is a recipe which, when _exxecuted_ will produce an Int. It may always return the same int (return 7), it may always return a new int (do { i <- readIORef ref; writeIORef ref (i+1); return i }), it may return a random IOReg (getRandomIO). I'm not sure if discrete and non-discrete come into it
2021-03-02 00:03:34 +0100 <Axman6> exxecution is like execution, but more badass
2021-03-02 00:03:43 +0100 <Axman6> while still being kid friendly
2021-03-02 00:03:47 +0100fendor_(~fendor@91.141.3.125.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 00:04:25 +0100 <koz_> As opposed to exxxecution.
2021-03-02 00:04:29 +0100 <koz_> Which is not kid-friendly.
2021-03-02 00:05:59 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-03-02 00:06:56 +0100chirpsalot(~Chirps@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-02 00:06:58 +0100Chobbes(~Chobbes@pool-98-115-239-235.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
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2021-03-02 00:09:41 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 00:09:49 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz)
2021-03-02 00:10:20 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 00:10:35 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> unless you're dealing with delays as part of application's domain model, you don't need a parameter representing a time instant, because you can imagine that it is passed implicitly
2021-03-02 00:11:36 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> so any function becomes non-descreet, if I understood the notion correctly
2021-03-02 00:11:54 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> but then the notion becomes useless, because it applies to everything
2021-03-02 00:13:58 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> you can say "do this thing" instead of "imagine a mapping from time instants to actions and execute an action that corresponds to current time instant"
2021-03-02 00:14:47 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-03-02 00:15:35 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-02 00:35:22 +0100 <perrier-jouet> hi all
2021-03-02 00:35:35 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:36:24 +0100klf(~klf@67.216.62.0)
2021-03-02 00:36:29 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I installed my haskell setup like stack setup --system-ghc --resolver ghc-8.10.4 and when I did stacl install pandoc I got this error
2021-03-02 00:37:11 +0100 <perrier-jouet> https://ix.io/2Rmh
2021-03-02 00:37:11 +0100araujo(~araujo@unaffiliated/araujo) (Quit: My laptop has gone to ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-02 00:37:24 +0100raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:37:27 +0100 <perrier-jouet> sorry
2021-03-02 00:37:27 +0100augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:6357:d1d8:c301:8b07) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-02 00:37:33 +0100 <perrier-jouet> http://ix.io/2Rmh
2021-03-02 00:38:18 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 00:38:28 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps you have to settle with an older GHC, as said.
2021-03-02 00:38:35 +0100wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-252-138-144.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:39:19 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps not so much stack itself but what's on stackage.
2021-03-02 00:39:21 +0100 <Axman6> those errors at the top looks like you have a very old stack
2021-03-02 00:39:43 +0100 <monochrom> Oh, that.
2021-03-02 00:39:57 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 00:40:06 +0100curiousgay(~AdminUser@178.217.208.8) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2021-03-02 00:40:19 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 00:41:09 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I just did stack updater
2021-03-02 00:41:12 +0100 <perrier-jouet> update
2021-03-02 00:41:23 +0100 <Axman6> what's stack --version say?
2021-03-02 00:41:35 +0100curiousgay(~gay@178.217.208.8)
2021-03-02 00:41:39 +0100 <Axman6> the update might have run but you have an older stack earlier in your path
2021-03-02 00:41:58 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Version 2.1.3, Git revision 636e3a759d51127df2b62f90772def126cdf6d1f (7735 commits) x86_64 hpack-0.31.2
2021-03-02 00:42:31 +0100 <Axman6> try running stack upgrade
2021-03-02 00:42:32 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.157) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 00:43:09 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.163)
2021-03-02 00:43:23 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-088-064-063-125.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:44:04 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-02 00:44:56 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:44:57 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:46:44 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Axman6: now I have stack version 2.5.1 and still can't install pandoc
2021-03-02 00:46:55 +0100 <ggVGc> python476: if you hadn't learnt java, or C++ (or python), then how could you appreciate all the things that are not those, and avoid walking into all the same traps yourself later when you decide (as we all do) to make your own programming environment?
2021-03-02 00:47:29 +0100tweek(~tweek@2603-6010-b207-6d3b-058f-45fa-65e0-88fa.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 00:47:30 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Axman6: error http://ix.io/2Rml
2021-03-02 00:48:33 +0100 <supastupid> sorry
2021-03-02 00:48:48 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 00:49:19 +0100 <supastupid> i had to leave for a bit, can i ask about XMonad here?
2021-03-02 00:50:20 +0100 <ggVGc> you're probably better off asking in their channel. But since a lot about using xmonad is writing haskell, if the questions are about that, then you'll probably get good answers here
2021-03-02 00:50:49 +0100 <ggVGc> personally I tried using xmonad for years while not learning haskell first, which was a bad time
2021-03-02 00:50:57 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:51:12 +0100 <Axman6> perrier-jouet: I have a feeling that " stack setup --system-ghc --resolver ghc-8.10.4" doesn't necessarilly do what you think it does. I think you may need to do stack --system-ghc install pandoc. That error looks very much like it can't find c0ompatible libraries though, can you try running stack update? (I thionk you may have already but just being sure that stack knows about all the versions)
2021-03-02 00:52:11 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Axman6: ok I will restart stack setup without the --systemghc
2021-03-02 00:52:25 +0100 <Axman6> perrier-jouet: on my machine, if I run `stack install pandoc` in my home directory (so there's no stack.yaml visible to it) it works fine.
2021-03-02 00:52:35 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:52:37 +0100 <supastupid> i have this variable with a xmobar process in it and a settings block references it and it says it's out of scope, how do i make this variable-process global?
2021-03-02 00:52:43 +0100chisui(577bc9b7@i577BC9B7.versanet.de) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 00:52:46 +0100 <Axman6> perrier-jouet: If you just need the pandoc executable then I don't think you need to run stack setup at all
2021-03-02 00:52:47 +0100chisui89(577bc9b7@i577BC9B7.versanet.de)
2021-03-02 00:53:35 +0100 <Axman6> stack setup is for writing new Haskell projects, it's not needed if you want to install tools using stack. what is your end goal from installing pandoc?
2021-03-02 00:55:22 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: can you share the code? those words don't mean much to me
2021-03-02 00:55:31 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 00:55:44 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: I seem to remember that pandoc is not well packaged in stackage right now. If you want to build it, it's best to clone pandoc source and run stack install inside that directory
2021-03-02 00:55:47 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-03-02 00:56:06 +0100 <Axman6> WFM :\
2021-03-02 00:56:39 +0100klf(~klf@67.216.62.0) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 00:57:00 +0100 <sm[m]> but seriously consider finding a binary install method instead, it is a very heavy build
2021-03-02 00:57:05 +0100klf(~klf@67.216.62.0)
2021-03-02 00:58:00 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 00:58:06 +0100 <perrier-jouet> wow
2021-03-02 00:58:13 +0100 <perrier-jouet> nothing works
2021-03-02 00:58:21 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I restart from scratch
2021-03-02 00:58:24 +0100 <sm[m]> Axman6: interesting, what global stackage resolver did you have configured when it worked for you ? An old one ?
2021-03-02 00:58:40 +0100 <perrier-jouet> stack setup, stack install happstack same error
2021-03-02 00:58:58 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: don't run stack setup, it's not needed
2021-03-02 00:58:59 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-02 00:59:05 +0100 <Axman6> hwo do I check that agin?
2021-03-02 00:59:09 +0100 <monochrom> I just "apt install pandoc" from ubuntu. I reasoned that pandoc is pretty mature, so a yesteryear version doesn't really miss out much.
2021-03-02 00:59:26 +0100 <supastupid> Axman6: https://dpaste.com/6PFZZKXHU
2021-03-02 00:59:31 +0100 <supastupid> xmproc is the variable
2021-03-02 00:59:32 +0100 <sm[m]> Axman6: ~/.stack/global-project/stack.yaml
2021-03-02 00:59:43 +0100 <Axman6> yeah stack setup is not related to what you're trying to do
2021-03-02 01:00:00 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 01:00:09 +0100 <Axman6> sm[m]: lts-16.2 apparently
2021-03-02 01:00:35 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 01:01:28 +0100 <sm[m]> right. So stack install pandoc -/resolver lts-16.2 should work, for getting an old pandoc installed
2021-03-02 01:01:36 +0100 <sm[m]> but it takes forever
2021-03-02 01:01:53 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Axman6: is 17.4 ok ?
2021-03-02 01:01:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 01:01:58 +0100 <perrier-jouet> lts 17.4 ?
2021-03-02 01:02:03 +0100 <sm[m]> No
2021-03-02 01:02:08 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskell-language-server why isn't v1.0.0.0 up yet?
2021-03-02 01:02:22 +0100 <sm[m]> unless you stack install from inside the pandoc source, perrier-jouet
2021-03-02 01:02:23 +0100chisui89(577bc9b7@i577BC9B7.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:02:43 +0100jpds_(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:02:46 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: lots of weird stuff going on in that file - defaults = def { ...} should either have a let statement, or not be indented (which I think is what you want). Also there's lots of tabs in that file which will break things.
2021-03-02 01:02:50 +0100usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 01:03:03 +0100 <perrier-jouet> sm[m]: I am on archlinux, and I want uptodate packages, I removed all haskell packages, I only installed ghc like, pacman -S ghc, and installed stack like yay -S stack
2021-03-02 01:03:29 +0100 <monochrom> I am actually surprised that it got as far as "not in scope". I would expect "parse error, I'm outta here"
2021-03-02 01:03:32 +0100 <sm[m]> I'm not even going to touch arch Haskell, sorry :)
2021-03-02 01:03:38 +0100 <perrier-jouet> now stack setup and after stack install anypackage does not work
2021-03-02 01:03:46 +0100 <supastupid> Axman6: what? it isn't indented and what is let, where do i put
2021-03-02 01:03:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:03:56 +0100 <sm[m]> I've told you how to stack install pandoc , and that you probably shouldn't :)
2021-03-02 01:04:19 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I know, I can't blame you there seem to be 2 camp, and average joe is sandwiched in between
2021-03-02 01:04:23 +0100 <perrier-jouet> :( :(
2021-03-02 01:04:36 +0100 <monochrom> Wait, archlinux's package command is "yay"?!
2021-03-02 01:04:46 +0100jpds_(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2021-03-02 01:04:47 +0100 <perrier-jouet> for stack
2021-03-02 01:04:58 +0100 <perrier-jouet> but primary is pacman
2021-03-02 01:05:03 +0100 <hpc> is that any weirder than yum? :P
2021-03-02 01:05:03 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:05:11 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:05:14 +0100 <monochrom> yum and yay and should there will be dab too.
2021-03-02 01:05:23 +0100 <Clint> surely arch has pandoc too
2021-03-02 01:05:27 +0100 <ggVGc> as an arch user since 10 years I can assure you I do not know what "yay" is
2021-03-02 01:05:30 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> lol just come over to gentoo we won't bite
2021-03-02 01:05:41 +0100 <ggVGc> and that installing stack through pacman is usually a crap idea anyway
2021-03-02 01:05:44 +0100dibblego(~dibblego@haskell/developer/dibblego)
2021-03-02 01:06:03 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: here is a diff of what changes I think you need to make: https://dpaste.com/6PFZZKXHU/diff/CPFEGPJEE
2021-03-02 01:06:27 +0100 <ggVGc> And yes, there's pandoc in arch, but then you get all the haskell libraries globally, which might be fine
2021-03-02 01:06:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 01:06:54 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I am sorry I installed stack like curl -sSL https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh
2021-03-02 01:07:05 +0100 <ggVGc> personally I vote installing stack manually, not through pacman, and letting it manage itself. And installing for example pandoc using stack
2021-03-02 01:07:09 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:07:17 +0100 <perrier-jouet> my stack version after stack upgrade is 2.5.1
2021-03-02 01:07:22 +0100 <ggVGc> yeah that's what I do too perrier-jouet
2021-03-02 01:07:29 +0100 <monochrom> Hey if someone forks debian and call it dabian, that would be cool. >:)
2021-03-02 01:07:47 +0100 <maerwald> they called it ubuntu
2021-03-02 01:07:48 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: and https://dpaste.com/CPFEGPJEE is what I think should work
2021-03-02 01:08:02 +0100 <Axman6> maerwald: :lit:
2021-03-02 01:08:28 +0100 <maerwald> if you fork crap, it's still gonna be crap though
2021-03-02 01:08:30 +0100 <perrier-jouet> ggVGc: but afterward installing packages does not work complain about config.yaml like add this to config.yaml
2021-03-02 01:08:45 +0100 <monochrom> I'm just going for puns and memes.
2021-03-02 01:08:57 +0100 <python476> ggVGc: it's a tiny bit of a fair point. But really of all the languages I've learned .. java/oo stands at the bottom of brain value and the highest on the pain ladder
2021-03-02 01:09:41 +0100 <maerwald> hey, you can code java while drunk... that's pretty impressive
2021-03-02 01:09:43 +0100 <ggVGc> perrier-jouet: you can change the stack resolver in .stack/global-project/stack.yaml
2021-03-02 01:09:49 +0100 <ggVGc> to one where pandoc builds correctly
2021-03-02 01:09:54 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt)
2021-03-02 01:10:02 +0100 <ggVGc> alternatively, you can add the packages it tells you to add there
2021-03-02 01:10:07 +0100 <python476> from year one I was enquiring about metaprogramming ala smalltalk and making tiny thunks like objects in java. teachers disapproved that and forced us/me to go full mainstream. wasted brain and energy
2021-03-02 01:10:12 +0100 <ggVGc> as extra-deps
2021-03-02 01:10:38 +0100 <perrier-jouet> ggVGc: it's not just one it's a lot
2021-03-02 01:10:49 +0100 <supastupid> Axman6: how do i use this file? (also thanks)
2021-03-02 01:11:30 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 01:11:36 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:11:37 +0100 <ggVGc> python476: this is too long of a discussion to get into, but the point of java isn't to be a beautiful high-featured language, and I think you're aware of that too
2021-03-02 01:11:56 +0100 <ggVGc> perrier-jouet: sure, you can add all of them. It's just copu-pasting, right? Or downgrade the resolver
2021-03-02 01:12:05 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: I know this gets confusing and it's hard to follow advice from chat. I'm going to try and summarise once more. Building pandoc takes a long time so you should try to install a binary instead. If you really want to build, there are two ways. 1. stack --resolver lts-16 install pandoc. 2. git clone pandoc.. cd pandoc.. stack insta..
2021-03-02 01:12:07 +0100 <sm[m]> stack install.
2021-03-02 01:12:27 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 01:12:52 +0100 <ggVGc> 3. Change the global resolver; stack install pandoc
2021-03-02 01:13:01 +0100 <maerwald> sm[m]: namaste
2021-03-02 01:13:22 +0100 <sm[m]> yes, that's the more permanent form of 1
2021-03-02 01:13:33 +0100 <ggVGc> alright, let's call it 1.6
2021-03-02 01:13:36 +0100 <perrier-jouet> I am going to try resolver 8.10.3 instead of 8.10.4
2021-03-02 01:13:42 +0100 <sm[m]> lol
2021-03-02 01:13:56 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:14:00 +0100 <perrier-jouet> lts 17.2
2021-03-02 01:14:05 +0100 <sm[m]> I think perrier-jouet is an agent of chaos
2021-03-02 01:14:23 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: the same way you use the file you shared? I don't understand
2021-03-02 01:14:26 +0100 <ggVGc> arch linux is the agent of chaos, at least in the context of haskell
2021-03-02 01:14:28 +0100 <ggVGc> unfortunately
2021-03-02 01:14:44 +0100 <sm[m]> they have stack installed, arch won't be a problem
2021-03-02 01:14:57 +0100 <python476> ggVGc: yeah
2021-03-02 01:15:13 +0100 <perrier-jouet> like stack setup --system-ghc --resolver ghc-8.10.3 is it ok ?
2021-03-02 01:15:27 +0100 <supastupid> Axman6: that's a diff file
2021-03-02 01:15:52 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> why dont arch users install haskell in ubuntu wrapped in docker if it's so difficult to install it in arch? you can install docker in arch, right?
2021-03-02 01:16:07 +0100 <supastupid> nvm
2021-03-02 01:16:25 +0100 <Axman6> supastupid: use the second link I sent
2021-03-02 01:16:43 +0100st8less(~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:f217:d85a:8fff:99be) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:16:44 +0100 <ggVGc> minoru_shiraeesh: because we can't install docker without building our window manager which is xmonad which is in haskell which we can't use because we can't build it
2021-03-02 01:17:11 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> oh, I see
2021-03-02 01:18:15 +0100st8less(~st8less@inet-167-224-197-181.isp.ozarksgo.net)
2021-03-02 01:19:34 +0100 <hpc> that's easy, just make an infinitely nested docker container :D
2021-03-02 01:19:57 +0100 <Axman6> container = from container
2021-03-02 01:20:07 +0100 <hpc> why does docker depend on your window manager?
2021-03-02 01:20:21 +0100 <Axman6> progress bars
2021-03-02 01:20:26 +0100 <Axman6> (I'm joking)
2021-03-02 01:20:38 +0100 <hpc> the stuff i have seen, that could easily be the answer
2021-03-02 01:21:27 +0100 <Axman6> "How do we figure out what OS we're running on?" "We open op the system information window, screenshot it, and then OCR the image. There's so simpler way"
2021-03-02 01:22:14 +0100Benzi-Junior(~BenziJuni@88-149-67-143.du.xdsl.is)
2021-03-02 01:24:33 +0100 <hpc> someday intel's going to add the xmlpostfacebookbuffer instruction to x86
2021-03-02 01:25:20 +0100 <hpc> it will take a pointer to a null-terminated buffer because even in the future it's still the 1990s
2021-03-02 01:26:02 +0100 <systemfault> Well.. ARM CPUs have special instruction for JavaScript IIRC...
2021-03-02 01:26:16 +0100 <systemfault> We're slowly getting there
2021-03-02 01:26:18 +0100 <python476> js ? or java
2021-03-02 01:26:18 +0100 <Axman6> they have instructions for Java, definitely
2021-03-02 01:26:39 +0100 <systemfault> JavaScript.
2021-03-02 01:26:42 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> yea I get it
2021-03-02 01:26:44 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> hpc: "why does docker depend on your window manager?" hmm, right. you already have an access to a terminal, so you don't need a window manager to install docker. maybe he was kidding.
2021-03-02 01:26:45 +0100 <Axman6> since when?
2021-03-02 01:26:49 +0100 <systemfault> https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0801/g/A64-Floating-point-Instructions/FJCVTZS
2021-03-02 01:26:55 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:7853:81e7:49e6:31d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 01:26:57 +0100 <python476> hmm now i remember seeing a news about that not long ago yeah
2021-03-02 01:27:07 +0100Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 01:27:51 +0100Narinas(~Narinas@187-178-93-112.dynamic.axtel.net)
2021-03-02 01:28:32 +0100 <Axman6> I wonder if the the Jazelle stuff still exists
2021-03-02 01:29:15 +0100 <ggVGc> systemfault: the problem with the 1990s is that in the 1990s it was still the 80s
2021-03-02 01:29:57 +0100 <python476> 80s are forever
2021-03-02 01:30:05 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> it's interesting how I said "I wonder" once and everybody started using that phrase. A glitch in the matrix.
2021-03-02 01:30:42 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:7853:81e7:49e6:31d8)
2021-03-02 01:31:05 +0100 <Axman6> Hey it's the guy who invented the phrase "I wonder"
2021-03-02 01:31:25 +0100klf(~klf@67.216.62.0) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 01:31:32 +0100 <ggVGc> holy shit ARM chips actually do have an instruction specifically for JS floats...
2021-03-02 01:32:00 +0100 <ggVGc> guess it'll help a lot when all virtualization is done through wasm
2021-03-02 01:32:02 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> no, really, I mean, you use a phrase and suddenly everybody uses it and you're like "huh?"
2021-03-02 01:32:18 +0100 <Axman6> I've felt for a while that ARM is just x86 CISC in new clothes. I think Aarch64 simplified things a fair bit though, IIRC
2021-03-02 01:32:26 +0100 <ggVGc> funny, I once said "huh?" and now it see it everywhere
2021-03-02 01:32:31 +0100 <monochrom> I'm like "huh?" too, but not for "I wonder".
2021-03-02 01:32:33 +0100 <Axman6> Huh?
2021-03-02 01:32:53 +0100 <Axman6> I whuhonder
2021-03-02 01:33:12 +0100 <Axman6> I think I have a good claim for stating I invented that one...
2021-03-02 01:33:35 +0100 <Axman6> "No results found for "I whuhonder" " - Google confirms it
2021-03-02 01:33:39 +0100 <monochrom> You're in one of those Star Trek TNG episodes where you're trapped in a subuniverse and everything you do is echoed. Stationary waves and all.
2021-03-02 01:33:44 +0100 <Axman6> You saw it here first folks
2021-03-02 01:35:12 +0100 <ephemient> ARM having specific instructions for specific languages is nothing new, see Jazelle (Java bytecode execution mode in hardware)
2021-03-02 01:35:57 +0100nhs(~nhs@cpe-70-113-67-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:37:15 +0100 <python476> it's surprising jazelle/thumb were kept for so long
2021-03-02 01:37:23 +0100 <python476> does android use them ?
2021-03-02 01:37:41 +0100 <python476> it was used in the previous era ~javacard
2021-03-02 01:38:31 +0100 <ephemient> Android doesn't, Dalvik is pretty different
2021-03-02 01:38:57 +0100 <python476> hmm untyped lambda fest https://dpaste.com/G7UWQD7ER
2021-03-02 01:39:20 +0100 <python476> so jazelle is vestigial tail at that point
2021-03-02 01:39:22 +0100 <ephemient> or rather, Jazelle isn't used. Thumb definitely is
2021-03-02 01:39:33 +0100 <minoru_shiraeesh> monochrom: maybe it's like those videotapes in which people installed huge mirrors in the forest and animals freak out when they see their reflections, some of them realise that it's a reflection, some don't
2021-03-02 01:39:40 +0100 <ephemient> it was always optional and not often implemented anyway so 🤷
2021-03-02 01:39:47 +0100 <python476> aight
2021-03-02 01:39:49 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.38.226) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:42:05 +0100carlomagno1(~cararell@148.87.23.6)
2021-03-02 01:42:08 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.6) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:43:04 +0100nhs(~nhs@cpe-70-113-67-118.austin.res.rr.com)
2021-03-02 01:43:55 +0100 <ggVGc> when are we getting a compiler that can build haskell into GPU instructions
2021-03-02 01:44:06 +0100 <ggVGc> I guess one exists and I should have googled first
2021-03-02 01:45:06 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6)
2021-03-02 01:45:24 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 01:45:31 +0100nhs(~nhs@cpe-70-113-67-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 01:46:00 +0100 <python476> GrePUceron
2021-03-02 01:47:31 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6)
2021-03-02 01:47:35 +0100conal(~conal@192.145.118.163) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2021-03-02 01:48:54 +0100 <ephemient> somebody mentioned Reduceron a while ago...
2021-03-02 01:50:12 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:50:26 +0100seveg(~gabriel@188-167-252-202.dynamic.chello.sk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:52:01 +0100Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:52:44 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 01:53:17 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-03-02 01:54:00 +0100 <python476> now its time to revive it
2021-03-02 01:54:16 +0100seveg(~gabriel@188-167-252-202.dynamic.chello.sk)
2021-03-02 01:54:27 +0100 <python476> griduceron, gpu grid variant of the reduceron, perfect for your blockchain/dapps !
2021-03-02 01:54:40 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 01:54:52 +0100 <koz_> I have some problems building (or rather, hyperlinking) Haddocks for my stuff for types coming from third-party libraries. What do I need to set where to have that not be a problem?
2021-03-02 01:55:01 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 01:56:48 +0100 <python476> https://github.com/jvranish/MiniKanrenT
2021-03-02 01:57:15 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:59:27 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 01:59:57 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:01:27 +0100MrMobius(~MrMobius@208.58.206.154)
2021-03-02 02:02:29 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-03-02 02:02:31 +0100supercoven_(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-02 02:02:54 +0100 <koz_> --enable-documentation was the solution
2021-03-02 02:03:26 +0100mawkmxwk
2021-03-02 02:03:40 +0100 <python476> #obviousinretrospect
2021-03-02 02:04:39 +0100supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:06:21 +0100egp_(~egp_@2.95.74.168) (Read error: Connection timed out)
2021-03-02 02:06:49 +0100egp_(~egp_@2.95.74.168)
2021-03-02 02:10:15 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58)
2021-03-02 02:12:02 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> how does a package go from github to hackage? someone has to upload it or something?
2021-03-02 02:12:09 +0100 <koz_> ezzieyguywuf: Yes.
2021-03-02 02:12:19 +0100 <koz_> In fact, I am in the middle of doing so right now.
2021-03-02 02:12:42 +0100whataday(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 02:12:48 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> who do I talk to do to that for haskell-language-server?
2021-03-02 02:12:52 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2021-03-02 02:13:06 +0100 <koz_> ezzieyguywuf: Who's the maintainer?
2021-03-02 02:13:12 +0100 <koz_> Or maintainers I suppose.
2021-03-02 02:13:14 +0100 <koz_> They'd be the ones.
2021-03-02 02:13:27 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> ah - is that listed on hackage somewhere?
2021-03-02 02:13:46 +0100 <koz_> Well, I mean it in the sense of 'who is the executive thing-doer'.
2021-03-02 02:13:48 +0100whataday(~xxx@2400:8902::f03c:92ff:fe60:98d8)
2021-03-02 02:14:03 +0100 <koz_> Since I would assume that the executive thing-doer has either already done this, or has good reasons not to have done this.
2021-03-02 02:14:11 +0100 <koz_> And that it would be best to ask said executive thing-doer.
2021-03-02 02:14:45 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-02 02:15:05 +0100shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-186-191-40.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:19:21 +0100 <supastupid> someone please help, https://dpaste.com/6PFZZKXHU
2021-03-02 02:19:31 +0100 <supastupid> is my xmonad.hs
2021-03-02 02:19:39 +0100m0rphism1(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:19:45 +0100 <koz_> supastupid: Could you be more specific what you need help _with_?
2021-03-02 02:19:53 +0100 <supastupid> hol up i was gonna say that
2021-03-02 02:19:58 +0100 <supastupid> xmobar isnt launching
2021-03-02 02:20:16 +0100 <supastupid> and when i launch it manually it says "Updating..."
2021-03-02 02:20:58 +0100 <supastupid> (forever)
2021-03-02 02:23:53 +0100amartya(~amartya@84.65.86.130) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-02 02:24:44 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:27:28 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 02:31:38 +0100CareBearemcho(~CareBeare@185.204.1.185) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 02:32:21 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:32:34 +0100nineonin_(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:33:40 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-02 02:36:15 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:40:26 +0100cartwright(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 02:40:30 +0100rajivr(uid269651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttrfxkbadcapkjxd)
2021-03-02 02:42:47 +0100cartwright(~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya)
2021-03-02 02:43:14 +0100shailangsa(~shailangs@host86-145-14-46.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
2021-03-02 02:47:27 +0100quaid1(~quaid@139.28.218.148)
2021-03-02 02:49:13 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-02 02:50:01 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6)
2021-03-02 02:51:44 +0100python476(~user@mfl93-13-83-155-250-136.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 02:53:56 +0100 <supastupid> i am back
2021-03-02 02:54:07 +0100 <supastupid> where is anyone
2021-03-02 02:57:27 +0100 <perrier-jouet> Axman6: I suceded installing pandoc like stack install --resolver=lts-17.4 pandoc
2021-03-02 02:57:29 +0100 <perrier-jouet> it worked
2021-03-02 02:58:03 +0100 <perrier-jouet> but installing happstack with stack install --resolver=lts-17.4 happstack I get this http://ix.io/2RmR
2021-03-02 02:58:04 +0100drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-87.static.apol.com.tw)
2021-03-02 02:59:58 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 03:00:54 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:02:12 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: I'm impressed, congrats!
2021-03-02 03:02:41 +0100 <sm[m]> it seems for happstack you will need to use the older lts though. And the best place to report that is happstack issue tracker
2021-03-02 03:02:47 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 03:03:02 +0100raid(macbookpro@irc-1.coding4.coffee) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:03:44 +0100supastupid(~dexter@c-73-249-54-43.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2021-03-02 03:03:56 +0100PyroLagus(PyroLagus@i.have.ipv6.on.coding4coffee.org) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:04:36 +0100 <perrier-jouet> sm[m]: other packages don't install
2021-03-02 03:04:49 +0100Unhammer(~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:05:03 +0100 <perrier-jouet> http://ix.io/2RmV
2021-03-02 03:05:09 +0100 <perrier-jouet> stack install miso http://ix.io/2RmV
2021-03-02 03:05:28 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:05:55 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.52) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:06:07 +0100tweek(~tweek@2603-6010-b207-6d3b-058f-45fa-65e0-88fa.res6.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:06:33 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-02 03:06:48 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: maybe it's simply that happstack has been deprecated in favour of happstack-server
2021-03-02 03:06:54 +0100 <sm[m]> try stack install happstack-server
2021-03-02 03:07:35 +0100 <sm[m]> for miso, try lts-16. stack install miso --resolver lts-16
2021-03-02 03:08:34 +0100 <sm[m]> though, miso uses GHCJS so you should maybe follow the install instructions at https://github.com/dmjio/miso
2021-03-02 03:10:09 +0100grumble(~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble) (Ping timeout: 624 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:11:57 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:14:22 +0100grumble(~Thunderbi@freenode/staff/grumble)
2021-03-02 03:14:23 +0100PyroLagus(PyroLagus@i.have.ipv6.on.coding4coffee.org)
2021-03-02 03:14:37 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-02 03:16:36 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:16:50 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5383:2100:4da:5f51:727e:1977) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:17:20 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5383:2100:f9b2:3b8:41f9:5c0d)
2021-03-02 03:17:33 +0100 <perrier-jouet> stack install happstack-server http://ix.io/2RmW
2021-03-02 03:17:44 +0100raid(macbookpro@irc-1.coding4.coffee)
2021-03-02 03:19:03 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hah, I've been chasing my tail
2021-03-02 03:19:13 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I thought I needed ghc 9.0.1 to try cabal-3.4.0.0
2021-03-02 03:19:22 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> or rather, cabal-install-3.4.0.0
2021-03-02 03:19:34 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> but I don't think cabal-install has been ported to 9.0.1 yet
2021-03-02 03:20:23 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah I think cabal-install 3.4 is not buildable by GHC 9.0.1 yet, probably not even 8.10.4
2021-03-02 03:20:39 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.52)
2021-03-02 03:20:59 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> so stick to 8.10.3 then
2021-03-02 03:21:13 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> but I guess cabal-3.4.0.0 should work with ghc-9.0.1, i mean it ships with it bundled
2021-03-02 03:21:26 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I guess the main thing I want to try is --allow-newer
2021-03-02 03:21:27 +0100 <monochrom> cabal-install has accreted so much dependency over the years that I stopped building it from source a long time ago.
2021-03-02 03:21:43 +0100Unhammer(~Unhammer@gateway/tor-sasl/unhammer)
2021-03-02 03:22:01 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> which as someone pointed out is documented here for cabal-3.4.0.0 Setup.hs stuff , but I was unable to actually use it with bare cabal https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/3.4/setup-commands.html#cmdoption-runhaskell-Setup.hs-configure-al…
2021-03-02 03:22:07 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> thus I started trying cabal-install stuff
2021-03-02 03:23:26 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-02 03:25:20 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> so really 9.0.1 should probably mostly be avoided right now?
2021-03-02 03:25:22 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> too new?
2021-03-02 03:25:43 +0100 <sm[m]> perrier-jouet: try doing stack update first ?
2021-03-02 03:26:04 +0100 <sm[m]> is this with lts-17.4 as your global resolver ?
2021-03-02 03:26:10 +0100viluon(uid453725@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtsprrmimewrgslj) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-02 03:26:58 +0100 <sm[m]> stack update && stack install --resolver lts-17.4 happstack-server
2021-03-02 03:28:39 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:28:46 +0100lnx(~irssi@167.71.7.27)
2021-03-02 03:31:46 +0100antimatroid(~nick@124-169-88-177.tpgi.com.au)
2021-03-02 03:31:57 +0100antimatroid(~nick@124-169-88-177.tpgi.com.au) ()
2021-03-02 03:32:07 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-02 03:33:24 +0100juri_(~juri@178.63.35.222) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:35:58 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 03:36:41 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-03-02 03:37:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:40:35 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:40:36 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:41:03 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-03-02 03:41:37 +0100 <nshepperd2> i'm unreasonably excited for NoFieldSelectors in ghc 9.2
2021-03-02 03:41:50 +0100 <nshepperd2> this is way more exciting than DependentHaskell xD
2021-03-02 03:43:37 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-02 03:45:28 +0100juri_(~juri@178.63.35.222)
2021-03-02 03:47:36 +0100st8less(~st8less@inet-167-224-197-181.isp.ozarksgo.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2021-03-02 03:49:01 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:49:05 +0100 <falsifian> NoFieldSelectors looks interesting. I haven't tried it, but my first thought is it seems annoying not to have access to the field names as functions --- I fairly often do want to access those functions.
2021-03-02 03:51:03 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.68.52) (Quit: alx741)
2021-03-02 03:51:04 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:54:09 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 03:54:23 +0100Wuzzy(~Wuzzy@p5b0df7c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-03-02 03:58:23 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-03-02 03:58:57 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-02 03:59:15 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:5383:2100:f9b2:3b8:41f9:5c0d) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:00:50 +0100 <nshepperd2> it's mostly to be used together with NamedFieldPuns
2021-03-02 04:00:50 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 04:00:58 +0100 <monochrom> My understanding is that it is the other feature, the one that legalizes the equivalant of SML's myRecord#thatField, that's exciting. The role of NoFieldSelectors is then to remove an ambiguity that you no longer need.
2021-03-02 04:01:09 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-02 04:01:33 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:1f54:39b5:d417:5062)
2021-03-02 04:01:53 +0100 <nshepperd2> the advantage is, you can add the functions if you want them, but they don't need to have the same name as the field, meaning you don't need the field itself to be namespaced
2021-03-02 04:02:45 +0100 <nshepperd2> ie. you can just write data Point = MkPoint {x :: Int, y :: Int} instead of pointX, pointY, and still not have name collisions
2021-03-02 04:02:50 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2021-03-02 04:03:41 +0100 <falsifian> Oh, which feature gives you something like record#field?
2021-03-02 04:04:00 +0100 <nshepperd2> RecordDotSyntax will be cool too
2021-03-02 04:04:13 +0100nopf(~frosch@static.179.17.76.144.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:04:31 +0100 <monochrom> I forgot.
2021-03-02 04:04:39 +0100cjay-(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:04:39 +0100jonge(jonge@kofferbomber.org) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:04:59 +0100 <falsifian> RecordDotSyntax sounds like it, or is there something else monochrom?
2021-03-02 04:05:35 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:07:59 +0100apache8080(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-02 04:08:12 +0100monochromproposes RecordCryptoHashSyntax for this Apirl 1st.
2021-03-02 04:10:15 +0100 <xsperry> RecordDotSyntax is coming soon?
2021-03-02 04:11:26 +0100oatsoafs
2021-03-02 04:11:47 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-02 04:12:18 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.182.60)
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2021-03-02 04:13:31 +0100coeus(~coeus@p200300d0274c930028b50fb1d864e965.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-03-02 04:13:57 +0100jonge(jonge@kofferbomber.org)
2021-03-02 04:15:17 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-02 04:16:05 +0100cjay(cjay@nerdbox.nerd2nerd.org)
2021-03-02 04:16:19 +0100apache801(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-02 04:16:34 +0100FinnElija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-03-02 04:16:34 +0100finn_elijaGuest52501
2021-03-02 04:16:34 +0100FinnElijafinn_elija
2021-03-02 04:17:51 +0100nopf(~frosch@static.179.17.76.144.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-02 04:18:16 +0100 <nshepperd2> it looks like RecordDotSyntax is likely to be in 9.2, but it's not merged yet, so it might not https://www.mail-archive.com/ghc-devs@haskell.org/msg19249.html
2021-03-02 04:18:36 +0100tinhatcat(~tsranso@2600:1700:ae40:21c8:883b:8e1b:48a:92f0)
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2021-03-02 04:19:46 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-silmedxoldmqygmd) ()
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2021-03-02 04:25:51 +0100antimatroid(~nick@124-169-88-177.tpgi.com.au)
2021-03-02 04:25:57 +0100antimatroid(~nick@124-169-88-177.tpgi.com.au) ()
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2021-03-02 04:45:06 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:c491:50f:2150:49a6)
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2021-03-02 04:46:04 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt)
2021-03-02 04:46:22 +0100noctuks(LDK5x9ebpQ@unaffiliated/noctux)
2021-03-02 04:46:57 +0100pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-03-02 04:47:46 +0100theDon(~td@94.134.91.242)
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2021-03-02 04:50:52 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.220.117)
2021-03-02 04:55:09 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 04:55:37 +0100redmp(~redmp@172.58.38.231)
2021-03-02 04:58:03 +0100tinhatcat(~tsranso@2600:1700:ae40:21c8:883b:8e1b:48a:92f0) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 04:58:13 +0100tinhatcat(~tsranso@2600:1700:ae40:21c8:883b:8e1b:48a:92f0)
2021-03-02 04:58:59 +0100 <c_wraith> monochrom: I'm all-in on DuplicateRecordFields, NoFieldSelectors, and OverloadedLabels. RecordDotSyntax seems like a mess that I don't need
2021-03-02 04:59:33 +0100 <c_wraith> Seriously, why . of all things? It has too many different meanings already
2021-03-02 04:59:52 +0100apache801(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:00:53 +0100SupaYoshii(~supayoshi@213-10-140-13.fixed.kpn.net) (Quit: Goodbye!)
2021-03-02 05:01:51 +0100SupaYoshi(~supayoshi@213-10-140-13.fixed.kpn.net)
2021-03-02 05:01:54 +0100 <rednaZ[m]> I second this.
2021-03-02 05:02:49 +0100noCheese(~nocheese@unaffiliated/nocheese) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-03-02 05:11:19 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:12:13 +0100dan64-(~dan64@dannyadam.com)
2021-03-02 05:12:42 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 05:12:51 +0100dan64(~dan64@dannyadam.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:14:07 +0100dan64-(~dan64@dannyadam.com) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 05:14:24 +0100dan64(~dan64@dannyadam.com)
2021-03-02 05:14:59 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 05:15:53 +0100kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vhrafoxqkobeyjua) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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2021-03-02 05:17:49 +0100noCheese(~nocheese@gw2.aibor.de) (Changing host)
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2021-03-02 05:21:17 +0100Chai-T-Rex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2021-03-02 05:21:18 +0100teardown(~user@gateway/tor-sasl/mrush)
2021-03-02 05:21:25 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik)
2021-03-02 05:21:28 +0100ralu(~ralu@static.211.245.203.116.clients.your-server.de)
2021-03-02 05:21:30 +0100andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2021-03-02 05:21:30 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 05:22:19 +0100drbean_(~drbean@TC210-63-209-87.static.apol.com.tw) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+cygwin2 - https://znc.in)
2021-03-02 05:24:02 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:1f54:39b5:d417:5062) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:24:46 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:4425:e0a9:a29b:345e)
2021-03-02 05:27:26 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-02 05:29:36 +0100 <Xnuk> let's do `import Prelude hiding ((.))`
2021-03-02 05:31:23 +0100 <boxscape> % let f ∘ g = \x -> f (g x)
2021-03-02 05:31:24 +0100 <yahb> boxscape:
2021-03-02 05:31:47 +0100 <Xnuk> :t (<<<)
2021-03-02 05:31:49 +0100 <lambdabot> forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (b :: k) (c :: k) (a :: k). Category cat => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c
2021-03-02 05:31:50 +0100 <nshepperd2> our keyboards need more symbols
2021-03-02 05:32:24 +0100 <Xnuk> >> (/2) <<< (+1) $ 10
2021-03-02 05:32:29 +0100 <Xnuk> > (/2) <<< (+1) $ 10
2021-03-02 05:32:30 +0100 <lambdabot> 5.5
2021-03-02 05:34:06 +0100 <Xnuk> :t ((.).(.)) (($).($)) ((.)$(.))
2021-03-02 05:34:07 +0100 <lambdabot> (a1 -> b -> c) -> a1 -> (a2 -> b) -> a2 -> c
2021-03-02 05:35:54 +0100 <nshepperd2> trouble is, every symbol on a standard us keyboard is either used for some other ghc syntax already, or defined as an operator by some user
2021-03-02 05:36:09 +0100 <nshepperd2> except possibly `
2021-03-02 05:36:09 +0100 <boxscape> just make your operators twice as long
2021-03-02 05:36:37 +0100 <nshepperd2> -XRecordBacktickSyntax foo`x`y`z
2021-03-02 05:36:48 +0100 <dolio> Backticks are already syntax.
2021-03-02 05:37:06 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 05:37:58 +0100 <boxscape> but . is also already defined as an operator, so that by itself doesn't disqualify a symbol
2021-03-02 05:38:16 +0100 <nshepperd2> oh yeah they are
2021-03-02 05:38:30 +0100 <nshepperd2> i forgot about zip`ap`tail
2021-03-02 05:38:57 +0100 <dolio> -> wasn't taken as a term level infix operator.
2021-03-02 05:40:12 +0100 <boxscape> I wonder if you could make ; work for records without breaking explicit layout too much
2021-03-02 05:40:23 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz)
2021-03-02 05:40:23 +0100slacker2014(~Thunderbi@49.207.219.205)
2021-03-02 05:41:36 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:43:16 +0100apache801(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:43:44 +0100 <nshepperd2> -> is used for ViewPatterns but that's probably less of a conflict than .
2021-03-02 05:44:24 +0100apache801(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-02 05:45:38 +0100ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:73a2:a1d8:b2be:9079) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:46:36 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:46:39 +0100 <nshepperd2> https://github.com/nshepperd/cabbage i made a package manager
2021-03-02 05:47:10 +0100slacker2014(~Thunderbi@49.207.219.205) ()
2021-03-02 05:50:18 +0100epicte7us(~epictetus@ip72-194-215-136.sb.sd.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 05:54:09 +0100haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:54:29 +0100haritz(~hrtz@62.3.70.206)
2021-03-02 05:54:29 +0100haritz(~hrtz@62.3.70.206) (Changing host)
2021-03-02 05:54:29 +0100haritz(~hrtz@unaffiliated/haritz)
2021-03-02 05:57:03 +0100natechan(~natechan@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-03-02 05:57:05 +0100ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:7511:4100:6209:4ebe)
2021-03-02 06:03:49 +0100 <olligobber> :t (.).(.)
2021-03-02 06:03:50 +0100 <lambdabot> (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a2 -> b) -> a1 -> a2 -> c
2021-03-02 06:04:00 +0100 <olligobber> huh
2021-03-02 06:04:10 +0100Wuzzy(~Wuzzy@p5b0df7c2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 06:04:19 +0100remby(~rcg@bras-base-london1483w-grc-21-76-67-124-27.dsl.bell.ca)
2021-03-02 06:05:50 +0100 <boxscape> olligobber it's a specialized version of (fmap . fmap) which let's you go two functors deep, in this case the (r ->) functor
2021-03-02 06:06:13 +0100 <olligobber> :t fmap . fmap
2021-03-02 06:06:14 +0100 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)
2021-03-02 06:06:24 +0100 <olligobber> ah I see
2021-03-02 06:08:05 +0100 <d34df00d> Last time I did binary (de)serialization, cereal was the library of choice. Is that still the case, or are there any other libraries worth checking out?
2021-03-02 06:08:21 +0100 <olligobber> nshepperd, huh, if I hadn't just learned how to use cabal I might consider using that
2021-03-02 06:08:46 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ooezfjzkvhydiyus) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-02 06:09:35 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:11:47 +0100raym(~ray@45.64.220.3)
2021-03-02 06:13:19 +0100 <nshepperd2> i think it's mainly complementary to cabal
2021-03-02 06:14:58 +0100 <dolio> d34df00d: I think cereal is no longer the library of choice.
2021-03-02 06:14:59 +0100 <nshepperd2> it fills in the gap where you want to 'install' some libraries globally so that you can use them when you open a ghci repl (I use ghci as a calculator pretty much constantly) or want to run some quickly written .hs program without making a whole cabal project
2021-03-02 06:15:22 +0100 <nshepperd2> cabal by itself doesn't really support that
2021-03-02 06:17:55 +0100tinhatcat(~tsranso@2600:1700:ae40:21c8:883b:8e1b:48a:92f0) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:18:04 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-03-02 06:18:57 +0100 <d34df00d> dolio: what would you recommend instead?
2021-03-02 06:21:31 +0100 <dolio> I'm no expert, but my recollection is that binary added the distinct things that cereal had, and cereal is no longer really developed.
2021-03-02 06:21:51 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2021-03-02 06:22:01 +0100 <dolio> But also, depending on your use case, it might be good not to use binary either, and use the newer thing based on CBOR.
2021-03-02 06:22:06 +0100tinhatcat(~tsranso@108-91-101-161.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-02 06:23:16 +0100natechan(~natechan@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-02 06:23:36 +0100 <dolio> I guess that's cborg.
2021-03-02 06:26:58 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2021-03-02 06:27:18 +0100geyaeb_(~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb)
2021-03-02 06:28:00 +0100fissureman(~quassel@c-73-201-159-163.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 06:28:56 +0100geyaeb(~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:29:13 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.6)
2021-03-02 06:29:16 +0100carlomagno1(~cararell@148.87.23.6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:29:35 +0100 <d34df00d> I just want to parse jpeg files into something reasonable just for lulz.
2021-03-02 06:30:09 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:31:20 +0100Tops21(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-025-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
2021-03-02 06:33:29 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.6) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-02 06:40:09 +0100 <nshepperd2> if you're parsing existing formats, use binary. if you're serialising stuff as your own format, use serialise/cborg
2021-03-02 06:44:57 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.220.117) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 06:46:52 +0100 <d34df00d> binary it is then!
2021-03-02 06:46:53 +0100 <d34df00d> Thanks!
2021-03-02 06:47:50 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.220.117)
2021-03-02 06:54:51 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-auqjdxvohzkrxyfy)
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2021-03-02 07:38:12 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
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2021-03-02 07:43:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 07:46:36 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-03-02 07:54:52 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-03-02 08:06:22 +0100rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cplnzsffvdwxtsrz)
2021-03-02 08:06:58 +0100 <edwardk> i now have my unlifted project building all the 2-ary representations... it takes 20 minutes or so to build on my macbook pro. maybe i should leave that option off by default. ;)
2021-03-02 08:08:45 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-02 08:09:44 +0100Lowl3v3l(~Lowl3v3l@dslb-002-207-103-026.002.207.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-03-02 08:11:06 +0100 <edwardk> at the very least until Ericson2314 's patch to make backpack build with -j goes in!
2021-03-02 08:13:14 +0100_ht(~quassel@82-169-194-8.biz.kpn.net)
2021-03-02 08:14:00 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> you've gone mad with power
2021-03-02 08:17:19 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-03-02 08:17:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:18:04 +0100Graf_Blutwurst(~grafblutw@2001:171b:226e:adc0:30e7:f9ef:2218:63e0)
2021-03-02 08:21:14 +0100 <edwardk> rebuilding, it appears 20 minutes was a low estimate
2021-03-02 08:21:44 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:21:48 +0100 <edwardk> does anyone know off hand the time limit on github-ci actions?
2021-03-02 08:21:48 +0100superstar64(6ccefa7c@108-206-250-124.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 08:22:05 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075)
2021-03-02 08:22:23 +0100 <edwardk> /Users/ekmett/.ghcup/bin/ghc: createProcess: runInteractiveProcess: exec: resource exhausted (Argument list too long)
2021-03-02 08:22:25 +0100 <edwardk> oof
2021-03-02 08:22:36 +0100 <edwardk> that may be more problematic than anything else
2021-03-02 08:23:21 +0100 <koz_> edwardk: 72 hours.
2021-03-02 08:23:36 +0100 <koz_> Oh wait, never mind, not 72.
2021-03-02 08:23:44 +0100 <koz_> 6 hours.
2021-03-02 08:23:55 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:4425:e0a9:a29b:345e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:24:13 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 08:24:23 +0100 <edwardk> it finished building everything then went to put it together and died.
2021-03-02 08:24:44 +0100Tops21(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-025-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 08:24:54 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075)
2021-03-02 08:24:58 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:3684:b677:6699:2fd9)
2021-03-02 08:25:46 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@252.248.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-02 08:26:01 +0100 <mniip> edwardk, imagine the hackage docs
2021-03-02 08:26:15 +0100 <edwardk> that was why i was building it =)
2021-03-02 08:26:26 +0100 <edwardk> i mean its not _much_ worse here than my gl package
2021-03-02 08:26:31 +0100 <edwardk> and that still builds
2021-03-02 08:29:18 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:29:45 +0100Graf_Blutwurst(~grafblutw@2001:171b:226e:adc0:30e7:f9ef:2218:63e0) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-02 08:30:12 +0100graf_blutwurst(~user@2001:171b:226e:adc0:30e7:f9ef:2218:63e0)
2021-03-02 08:30:27 +0100 <mniip> edwardk, how fixed is the list of reps?
2021-03-02 08:30:48 +0100 <mniip> could you perhaps collapse one of the layers of the hierarchy
2021-03-02 08:31:48 +0100 <mniip> hmm, but that loses you that backpack orphan instance handling quirk
2021-03-02 08:31:52 +0100 <edwardk> yeah
2021-03-02 08:31:55 +0100 <edwardk> exactly
2021-03-02 08:32:03 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-03-02 08:32:16 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 08:32:22 +0100 <edwardk> and i really would _like_ to handle 2-tuples properly because then i can handle Maybe# and the like
2021-03-02 08:32:41 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.141.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2021-03-02 08:32:57 +0100 <edwardk> and (# State# s, a #) -- for a :: TYPE r
2021-03-02 08:33:33 +0100 <edwardk> but losing 30+ minutes to mostly compile then crashing at the end because of command line length to ghc is kinda frustrating
2021-03-02 08:33:57 +0100 <edwardk> i thought we'd fixed the ghc <-> cabal command line length issue back when i shipped 'gl' but apparently not
2021-03-02 08:34:28 +0100 <mniip> what's your `getconf ARG_MAX` say
2021-03-02 08:34:52 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01:e0a:5cb:4430:ac92:f3cb:a8a3:4136)
2021-03-02 08:35:35 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075)
2021-03-02 08:35:39 +0100 <mniip> it's 2MB on my system and if cabal is trying to pass in 2000 full pathnames I could see that being exhausted
2021-03-02 08:36:07 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 08:36:36 +0100 <mniip> solution: build in /
2021-03-02 08:37:21 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 08:37:25 +0100abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-139-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-02 08:38:01 +0100 <olligobber> hmm, haskell's type inference isn't as powerful as I thought
2021-03-02 08:38:23 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075)
2021-03-02 08:38:31 +0100 <[exa]> olligobber: with great power comes great undecidability
2021-03-02 08:38:49 +0100 <olligobber> I can just add in type annotations I guess
2021-03-02 08:40:09 +0100 <[exa]> olligobber: any specific problem btw?
2021-03-02 08:40:34 +0100 <nshepperd2> 'building all the 2-ary representations' sounds concerning, what does that mean
2021-03-02 08:40:55 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:41:58 +0100 <edwardk> mniip: 262144
2021-03-02 08:42:09 +0100 <mniip> why is it so small :(
2021-03-02 08:42:13 +0100 <edwardk> osx
2021-03-02 08:43:18 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:1c8e:e5ce:d317:3075) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 08:43:43 +0100 <mniip> nshepperd2, [TupleRep [r1, r2] | r1 <- primitiveReps, r2 <- primitiveReps]
2021-03-02 08:43:46 +0100 <mniip> except backpack
2021-03-02 08:44:45 +0100 <edwardk> nshepperd2: https://github.com/ekmett/unboxed/blob/main/unboxed.cabal#L191
2021-03-02 08:44:58 +0100sammuel86(~sammuel86@217.146.82.202)
2021-03-02 08:45:21 +0100 <edwardk> the code from there to the end is what breaks
2021-03-02 08:46:34 +0100feuerbach_(~feuerbach@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::408:6001) ("Leaving")
2021-03-02 08:46:59 +0100 <edwardk> building in the root doesn't help, btw =)
2021-03-02 08:47:11 +0100 <edwardk> /Users/ekmett/unboxed/dist-newstyle/build/x86_64-osx/ghc-9.0.1/unboxed-0.2/l/consdef/unboxed-0.2-inplace-consdef+3tP2tTLTg5qEHov4661Voa/build/unboxed-0.2-inplace-consdef+3tP2tTLTg5qEHov4661Voa/autogen/H.hsig -- most of that is under dist-newstyle
2021-03-02 08:47:16 +0100 <boxscape> Is the only way to get a type with a kind like `TYPE (TupleRep [LiftedRep, IntRep])` to define a custom type with that kind?
2021-03-02 08:47:19 +0100 <nshepperd2> so, defining a sum and product datatype for every combination of two unlifted typereps?
2021-03-02 08:47:35 +0100 <edwardk> :k (# 4, 3# #)
2021-03-02 08:47:37 +0100 <lambdabot> error: Operator applied to too few arguments: #
2021-03-02 08:47:49 +0100 <mniip> % :k (# 4, 3# #)
2021-03-02 08:47:49 +0100 <yahb> mniip: ; <interactive>:1:7: error: parse error on input `3#'
2021-03-02 08:48:05 +0100 <mniip> % :set -XMagicHash -XUnboxedTuples
2021-03-02 08:48:05 +0100 <yahb> mniip:
2021-03-02 08:48:06 +0100 <mniip> % :k (# 4, 3# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:07 +0100 <yahb> mniip: ; <interactive>:1:7: error: parse error on input `3#'
2021-03-02 08:48:12 +0100 <mniip> er
2021-03-02 08:48:15 +0100 <mniip> of course, that's a term
2021-03-02 08:48:24 +0100 <mniip> % :k (# Int, Int# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:25 +0100 <yahb> mniip: TYPE ('TupleRep '[ 'LiftedRep, 'GHC.Exts.IntRep])
2021-03-02 08:48:25 +0100 <edwardk> anyways that lives in that type
2021-03-02 08:48:31 +0100 <boxscape> ah, thanks
2021-03-02 08:48:33 +0100 <edwardk> % :t (# 4, 3# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:33 +0100 <yahb> edwardk: Num a => (# a, Int# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:39 +0100 <edwardk> % :t (# 4 :: Int, 3# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:39 +0100 <yahb> edwardk: (# Int, Int# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:54 +0100 <edwardk> % :k (# Int, Int# #)
2021-03-02 08:48:54 +0100 <yahb> edwardk: TYPE ('TupleRep '[ 'LiftedRep, 'GHC.Exts.IntRep])
2021-03-02 08:48:57 +0100 <edwardk> thank you =)
2021-03-02 08:49:06 +0100 <boxscape> -.- right I tried :k forall a . Num a => (# a, Int# #) but of course that's * because it's a function
2021-03-02 08:49:15 +0100 <edwardk> yeah
2021-03-02 08:49:15 +0100michalz(~user@185.246.204.42)
2021-03-02 08:49:20 +0100 <edwardk> thats the trick that backs my Lev trick
2021-03-02 08:49:31 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-02 08:49:36 +0100 <edwardk> type Lev (a :: TYPE r) = ()~() => a -- lives in Type even when a lives in TYPE r
2021-03-02 08:49:48 +0100 <boxscape> Oh, Isee
2021-03-02 08:50:12 +0100 <boxscape> I saw Iceland_Jack posting that on twitter
2021-03-02 08:50:34 +0100 <mniip> that does involve boxing a pretty much
2021-03-02 08:50:47 +0100 <mniip> except not as a data closure
2021-03-02 08:53:11 +0100 <edwardk> yeah
2021-03-02 08:53:24 +0100natechan(~natechan@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-03-02 08:53:29 +0100 <edwardk> boxscape: yeah i was infodumping code on him the other night
2021-03-02 08:53:35 +0100 <boxscape> haha I see
2021-03-02 08:54:08 +0100 <edwardk> we were trying to find _any_ way we could to trick ghc into allowing me to have the kind of Functor I want without having to fix a bug left in levity polymorphism
2021-03-02 08:56:23 +0100 <nshepperd2> that's pretty spooky
2021-03-02 08:57:05 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:7853:81e7:49e6:31d8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 08:58:40 +0100 <edwardk> holy cow i got it to work and i don't know why
2021-03-02 08:58:40 +0100Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igqvlzivrkvilmgu)
2021-03-02 09:00:19 +0100 <tdammers> sounds like programming in clojure
2021-03-02 09:01:25 +0100 <edwardk> oof
2021-03-02 09:01:32 +0100 <edwardk> guess i still can't turn on -fobject-code
2021-03-02 09:01:39 +0100 <edwardk> ghci starts spitting out: clang: error: unable to execute command: posix_spawn failed: Argument list too long
2021-03-02 09:02:36 +0100 <edwardk> i'm mostly sad because if i ever have to write something that takes 2 levity-polymorphic arguments i'll be stuck with the same size issues.
2021-03-02 09:02:40 +0100 <edwardk> e.g. State s a
2021-03-02 09:03:42 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-03-02 09:04:17 +0100jhrcek(~jhrcek@ip-89-103-183-101.net.upcbroadband.cz)
2021-03-02 09:05:21 +0100 <jhrcek> Hello @hvr, not sure if you saw this already, but could you please check this PR? https://github.com/haskell-hvr/base-noprelude/pull/13
2021-03-02 09:05:56 +0100 <jhrcek> Having this released on hackage would make our migration to ghc 8.10.4 more pleasant :)
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2021-03-02 09:25:50 +0100 <olligobber> merijn, https://github.com/merijn/validated-literals/issues/4
2021-03-02 09:25:55 +0100 <olligobber> I found a thing
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2021-03-02 09:26:20 +0100 <merijn> olligobber: I saw that, but that seems more likely to be a ghci bug?
2021-03-02 09:26:32 +0100 <olligobber> probably
2021-03-02 09:26:51 +0100 <merijn> Probably some weirdness with how ghci accepts both Show values and IO interacting
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2021-03-02 09:27:22 +0100 <merijn> because clearly it's *not* compiling and running the print
2021-03-02 09:27:31 +0100 <olligobber> yeah
2021-03-02 09:28:39 +0100 <olligobber> though `print $undefined` errors properly
2021-03-02 09:29:34 +0100 <olligobber> ah, but `print ($$undefined :: String)` does not error
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2021-03-02 09:29:54 +0100 <merijn> Whoo! Sounds like "not my problem"! ;)
2021-03-02 09:30:18 +0100 <olligobber> guess I'll submit a bug report to haskell
2021-03-02 09:31:33 +0100 <olligobber> or is it a template haskell issue?
2021-03-02 09:31:44 +0100 <merijn> "Yes" ;)
2021-03-02 09:32:02 +0100 <merijn> Sounds like there's an issue with typed TH and ghci?
2021-03-02 09:32:16 +0100 <olligobber> yeah
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2021-03-02 09:51:03 +0100 <kumo> b
2021-03-02 09:51:14 +0100kenran(~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
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2021-03-02 09:55:06 +0100 <kenran> Why is it that after doing a "cabal build all", a "cabal --enable-documentation build all" just ends with "up to date"? I'd like to somehow force documentation creation with a flag. Is that possible other than doing a "cabal clean" beforehand?
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2021-03-02 09:56:09 +0100 <kenran> (I'd like to get rid of the "documentation: True" in my cabal.project)
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2021-03-02 10:16:20 +0100 <merijn> kenran: Use "cabal haddock"?
2021-03-02 10:17:05 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt)
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2021-03-02 10:17:44 +0100 <merijn> kenran: I mean, "build" builds the code, so if nothing changed it doesn't have to rebuild. The fact that it generates docs too with --enable-documentation isn't really handled, because "cabal haddock" is the intended command for generating documentation
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2021-03-02 10:23:08 +0100 <kenran> merijn: It's been a long time since I've tried, but last time I couldn't get my use case to run with cabal haddock (it's a multi-package project). I think I couldn't get it to create a "global" index.html. But I'll try again maybe, thanks!
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2021-03-02 10:23:56 +0100 <merijn> kenran: Ah, yeah, that's a pet peeve of mine too, I don't think that's really well supported atm
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2021-03-02 10:31:00 +0100 <olligobber> merijn, reported! https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19470
2021-03-02 10:31:13 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:1b6c:25ca:6266:8e44)
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2021-03-02 10:31:57 +0100 <kenran> merijn: Ok, then I'm not alone there :) So it'll have to be "make docs" which does "cabal clean && cabal --enable-documentation build" together with the hacky stuff for now.
2021-03-02 10:33:17 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
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2021-03-02 10:35:26 +0100 <dminuoso> merijn: Perhaps `--enable-documentation` should be removed then.
2021-03-02 10:35:36 +0100 <merijn> kenran: It's a game of chicken of "who gets sufficiently annoyed by this to fix it" ;)
2021-03-02 10:35:43 +0100 <dminuoso> It's not as if `cabal build && cabal haddock` is too much to ask for in a CI script..
2021-03-02 10:35:53 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: --enable-documentation is global and enables documentation of your dependencies
2021-03-02 10:35:57 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh
2021-03-02 10:36:33 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: The distinction between "global" and "local" flags needs work too
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2021-03-02 10:38:50 +0100 <merijn> #BeTheChangeYouWannaSee ;)
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2021-03-02 10:43:12 +0100 <dminuoso> Think that's 4 characters too long. :>
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2021-03-02 11:17:14 +0100bbus111(~antoniosk@2.51.120.164) ()
2021-03-02 11:18:33 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2021-03-02 11:18:43 +0100 <ggVGc> merijn: I can happily announce I moved my project to cabal-install yesterday, and rebuilds are definitey faster to start up. Thanks!
2021-03-02 11:20:22 +0100 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hackage-security-0.6.0.1/docs/Hackage-Security-Client.html#v:c… doh... why is TUF implementation intertwined with hackage repos?
2021-03-02 11:22:27 +0100mniip(mniip@freenode/staff/mniip)
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2021-03-02 11:27:19 +0100 <mniip> huh
2021-03-02 11:27:24 +0100 <mniip> tunes.org -> NXDOMAIN
2021-03-02 11:28:22 +0100 <rond_> Hi! How to interpret "readFile :: FilePath -> IO String" ? Is it "given a `FilePath`, return an `IO String` monad - so a string in a wrapper that you can >>unpack/use<< later on?
2021-03-02 11:29:31 +0100 <dminuoso> rond_: One mind-model that I like to use, is to think of `IO String` as "a list of assembly instructions, that if executed, would give you a string"
2021-03-02 11:29:54 +0100 <maerwald> rond_: https://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/IO.xhtml
2021-03-02 11:29:55 +0100 <dminuoso> (It's not really true, but it might help conceptualize how IO is used)
2021-03-02 11:30:01 +0100 <maerwald> rond_: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures/08-IO.html
2021-03-02 11:30:03 +0100 <maerwald> read those
2021-03-02 11:30:07 +0100 <maerwald> then come back :)
2021-03-02 11:30:28 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: Get a different recursor.
2021-03-02 11:30:48 +0100 <mniip> 8.8.8.8 says so
2021-03-02 11:30:58 +0100 <dminuoso> Maybe you have a stale cache
2021-03-02 11:31:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> mniip: 8.8.8.8 doesn't :p
2021-03-02 11:31:15 +0100 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: for you, anyhow
2021-03-02 11:31:21 +0100 <dminuoso> 8.8.8.8 is likely anycasted
2021-03-02 11:31:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> fair point
2021-03-02 11:32:10 +0100entel(uid256215@botters/entel)
2021-03-02 11:33:13 +0100 <rond_> Alright! I might have one more question before I begin my reading session:)  Would any of you recommend a good resource for learning haskell? My background: pretty solid fundamentals in computer science, imperative/OOP programming; some experience with OCaml (so I'm not a total newbie when it comes to FP - however, I'd rather have a  thorough
2021-03-02 11:33:14 +0100 <rond_> resource that explains some trivial things twice rather than omit some things that I might miss)
2021-03-02 11:33:15 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 11:33:34 +0100 <maerwald> rond_: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/
2021-03-02 11:35:14 +0100 <dminuoso> There's also a newer version of CIS194 that I favour https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/
2021-03-02 11:35:19 +0100 <dminuoso> Both are great choices, though.
2021-03-02 11:35:34 +0100 <mniip> dminuoso, https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/tunes.org
2021-03-02 11:36:24 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: I just recursed manually, its fine for me.
2021-03-02 11:36:38 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps someone made a DNS mistake and it propagated
2021-03-02 11:36:42 +0100 <dminuoso> But it seems fixed now
2021-03-02 11:36:56 +0100 <dminuoso> https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/8f90b49eb7817485a6fd9cda0843d99c
2021-03-02 11:37:46 +0100 <mniip> https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe
2021-03-02 11:38:26 +0100 <dminuoso> That is truly curious
2021-03-02 11:39:06 +0100 <dminuoso> Is "no more" really the error there?
2021-03-02 11:39:14 +0100 <mniip> yes
2021-03-02 11:39:52 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@252.248.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-02 11:39:55 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:176:cad2:9667:c008) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:40:17 +0100 <mniip> maybe sounds like messed up glue records
2021-03-02 11:40:31 +0100 <mniip> and some recursors were lucky enough to remember the A for the nameservers?
2021-03-02 11:40:38 +0100 <mniip> (I don't actually know DNS)
2021-03-02 11:40:45 +0100 <rond_> Thank you for the links! Last but not least - any online website that has some excercies to pratice Haskell?
2021-03-02 11:40:50 +0100 <rond_> practice*
2021-03-02 11:40:57 +0100 <dminuoso> rond_: These resources contain plenty excercises.
2021-03-02 11:41:04 +0100 <dminuoso> Both of them. Pick one though.
2021-03-02 11:42:21 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: I can also plug my course, which has a big emphasis on exercises: https://haskell.mooc.fi/
2021-03-02 11:42:23 +0100 <Uniaika> oh, nomeata is teaching CIS194
2021-03-02 11:42:29 +0100 <Uniaika> nice
2021-03-02 11:43:04 +0100 <rond_> Sure, but I won't be able to use automatic verifiers that their student are able to, right? Hence, no straight-forward way to make sure my code works as intended...?
2021-03-02 11:43:19 +0100 <dminuoso> rond_: The excercises are easy to verify yourself.
2021-03-02 11:44:27 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: Can you re-run with `dig tunes.org +trace +additional` ?
2021-03-02 11:44:36 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@191.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net)
2021-03-02 11:44:36 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@191.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net) (Changing host)
2021-03-02 11:44:36 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2021-03-02 11:44:40 +0100 <dminuoso> Im thinking you're somehow not getting glue records for {ab}.ns.tunes.org
2021-03-02 11:45:19 +0100 <mniip> https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe
2021-03-02 11:45:42 +0100 <rond_> opqdonut Nice! I see that there are "submit" "results" pages. Will I be able to use them given that I'm not a student of University of Helsinki ?
2021-03-02 11:46:02 +0100 <rond_> dminuoso Okay, that' good to know. I'll bear it in mind.
2021-03-02 11:46:14 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-03-02 11:46:15 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:1b6c:25ca:6266:8e44) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:46:33 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: that seems broken. which dig version do you have?
2021-03-02 11:46:51 +0100 <dminuoso> `couldn't get address for 'b.ns.tunes.org': failure` seems like a blatant lie, dig just showed you it got the glue records
2021-03-02 11:47:01 +0100 <mniip> 9.16.11 says right there
2021-03-02 11:47:08 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: yes, it's completely open
2021-03-02 11:47:27 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: however you can run the tests that check your answers on your machine too, no need to submit anything if you don't want to
2021-03-02 11:47:30 +0100xff0x(~xff0x@2001:1a81:53bf:4d00:5544:da2:365f:359d)
2021-03-02 11:47:34 +0100 <Aleksejs> hey, are there patterns to match with arithmetic operations? For example, "let foo a b@(a+1)" I want to match that b is equal to a+1
2021-03-02 11:47:45 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: everything is in the github repo at https://github.com/moocfi/haskell-mooc
2021-03-02 11:47:57 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:48:53 +0100 <mniip> dminuoso, 66.114.33.57 is not responding on port 53
2021-03-02 11:49:06 +0100 <rond_> opqdonut I'm used to online verifiers because of a long tradition of using them in my education:)  I'll probably give it a try. Would you recommend going through UPenn course before diving into yours, or would you suggest giving yours a shot immediately?
2021-03-02 11:49:57 +0100 <mniip> dminuoso, https://gist.github.com/mniip/1494e4263e02bef659be1111a3b861fe#file-gistfile2-txt
2021-03-02 11:52:31 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: Does 66.114.33.57 respond to ICMP echo request?
2021-03-02 11:52:50 +0100 <mniip> yes
2021-03-02 11:52:52 +0100 <mniip> to HTTP even
2021-03-02 11:52:55 +0100 <dminuoso> Strange
2021-03-02 11:53:15 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf25d9c5ca5b76fffe29f233.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:53:33 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps there's some fail2ban/DDoS protection that has banned your ip address/AS from DNS on that name server?
2021-03-02 11:53:45 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: I think they're roughly at the same level, and I obviously think mine is better :P
2021-03-02 11:54:08 +0100 <rond_> opqdonut I wouldn't say that it's an obvious thing:)
2021-03-02 11:54:20 +0100 <rond_> it's good to know though!
2021-03-02 11:54:21 +0100 <opqdonut> I think going through both will probably not be that useful
2021-03-02 11:54:34 +0100 <opqdonut> but perhaps one will have an approach that suits you better so have a look at both
2021-03-02 11:56:15 +0100natechan(~natechan@108-233-125-227.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:56:21 +0100 <rond_> Okay! Btw I found a typo:
2021-03-02 11:56:21 +0100 <rond_> "1.3.2 Some History
2021-03-02 11:56:22 +0100 <rond_> A brief timeline of Haskell:
2021-03-02 11:56:22 +0100 <rond_> 1930s: Lamba Calculus"
2021-03-02 11:56:23 +0100 <rond_> (s/Lamba/Lambda/):)
2021-03-02 11:56:31 +0100 <Uniaika> hello there! Do we have a handy way to generate IsLabel instances for a whole record yet?
2021-03-02 11:56:35 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 11:56:40 +0100 <Uniaika> or should I manually write them?
2021-03-02 11:56:43 +0100 <dminuoso> mniip: I think this is the only likely explanation. The nameserver itself, or some device in the middle, is blocking your ip address (perhaps the single address, or some block, perhaps the entire AS). Perhaps as a result of some previous DNS reflection attack.
2021-03-02 11:57:10 +0100 <dminuoso> (Well not just the IP address, but just for that port)
2021-03-02 11:57:52 +0100 <mniip> I have like 6 unrelated IPs I could try from
2021-03-02 11:58:05 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 11:59:12 +0100 <mniip> dminuoso, are you able to reach the port yourself?
2021-03-02 11:59:17 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201)
2021-03-02 11:59:46 +0100 <dminuoso> Yes
2021-03-02 12:00:56 +0100fendor_(~fendor@078132053193.public.t-mobile.at)
2021-03-02 12:01:12 +0100xelxebar(~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-02 12:02:01 +0100fendor_(~fendor@078132053193.public.t-mobile.at) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-03-02 12:08:52 +0100m0rphism1(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-085-216-104-059.hsi.kabelbw.de)
2021-03-02 12:09:20 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
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2021-03-02 12:12:24 +0100MasseR(~MasseR@51.15.143.128) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2021-03-02 12:12:50 +0100MasseR(~MasseR@51.15.143.128)
2021-03-02 12:13:34 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf25d9c5ca5b76fffe29f233.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2021-03-02 12:15:56 +0100 <opqdonut> rond_: yeah that's fixed out in master, hasn't yet rolled out to the site
2021-03-02 12:16:36 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 12:17:57 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 12:22:25 +0100bobiusbillius(6d998222@host109-153-130-34.range109-153.btcentralplus.com)
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2021-03-02 12:30:52 +0100cgadski_(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
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2021-03-02 12:34:21 +0100 <bobiusbillius> favourite resources for n00bs?
2021-03-02 12:34:25 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:34:33 +0100oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-02 12:36:36 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-03-02 12:36:36 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:36:55 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:37:48 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82ca6580075cba9fc5aa0785d.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 12:37:58 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2021-03-02 12:38:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 12:41:06 +0100 <boxscape> bobiusbillius if you're looking for a book, there's "Haskell Programming from first principles" or "Programming in Haskell". If you're looking for something that's freely available online, there's this course material https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/spring13/lectures.html
2021-03-02 12:42:16 +0100lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Quit: (tentatively) reenabling @seen)
2021-03-02 12:42:26 +0100lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu)
2021-03-02 12:42:26 +0100lambdabot(~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu) (Changing host)
2021-03-02 12:42:26 +0100lambdabot(~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
2021-03-02 12:42:39 +0100 <boxscape> there's also a summary of available resources here https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell
2021-03-02 12:43:39 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 12:43:40 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:44:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-03-02 12:44:35 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:46:53 +0100cgadski_(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:46:53 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:47:39 +0100gay(~gay@178.217.208.8)
2021-03-02 12:47:40 +0100 <bobiusbillius> awesome, thank you, great to see some homework assignments. so far i've been using 'learnyouahaskell', and watching lectures from John Hughes, Scott Wlaschin, and anyone else i can find.
2021-03-02 12:47:45 +0100cgadski_cgadski
2021-03-02 12:48:40 +0100soft-warm(44695313@ip68-105-83-19.sd.sd.cox.net)
2021-03-02 12:48:48 +0100 <boxscape> bobiusbillius yeah lack of excercises is one of the biggest problems of learnyouahaskell
2021-03-02 12:49:10 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-03-02 12:49:58 +0100 <merijn> Anyone else getting PM spam?
2021-03-02 12:50:18 +0100d1rges(~d1rges@2001-b011-8011-1df2-db95-6d0e-13aa-cdee.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 12:50:27 +0100 <boxscape> who do you even report that something like that to?
2021-03-02 12:50:31 +0100 <boxscape> (but no, I'm not)
2021-03-02 12:52:08 +0100 <merijn> boxscape: Freenode staff. I was doing my lunch walk and had like 10 different people PM me the same copy/paste message about reporting me for harassment, so I figured maybe it was "script kiddie"-o clock again on freenode
2021-03-02 12:52:16 +0100 <boxscape> hm, okay
2021-03-02 12:53:19 +0100 <merijn> Normally they'd PM spam everyone in a channel or something like that
2021-03-02 12:53:25 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:53:51 +0100 <boxscape> seems you're a lucky winner today
2021-03-02 12:53:55 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:54:37 +0100 <Franciman> merijn, on #freenode they suggest to set mode +r
2021-03-02 12:54:50 +0100 <Franciman> to get PMs only from registered users
2021-03-02 12:55:00 +0100 <Franciman> sorry +R
2021-03-02 12:55:09 +0100 <jess> we're working on it
2021-03-02 12:55:13 +0100 <merijn> It's not normally an issue, was just curious if it was just me :)
2021-03-02 12:55:34 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:55:38 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 12:55:46 +0100 <Franciman> the fun thing is that as soon as I said that
2021-03-02 12:55:48 +0100 <Franciman> I got a PM too
2021-03-02 12:55:53 +0100 <merijn> :p
2021-03-02 12:55:58 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 12:56:00 +0100 <merijn> Jinxed yourself!
2021-03-02 12:56:03 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 12:58:17 +0100boxscape46(4ff0baf3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.240.186.243)
2021-03-02 12:58:46 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 12:59:33 +0100boxscape46(4ff0baf3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.240.186.243) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 12:59:50 +0100python476(~user@mfl93-13-83-155-250-136.fbx.proxad.net)
2021-03-02 13:00:35 +0100boxscape19(4ff0baf3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.79.240.186.243)
2021-03-02 13:00:35 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 13:01:23 +0100vjoki(vjoki@2a00:d880:3:1::fea1:9ae)
2021-03-02 13:01:56 +0100bobiusbillius(6d998222@host109-153-130-34.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 13:02:19 +0100boxscape(86ab2c71@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.134.171.44.113) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-03-02 13:03:08 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-02 13:03:47 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-03-02 13:04:00 +0100 <jess> let me know if you see more spam
2021-03-02 13:04:19 +0100 <ggVGc> Sometimes I wonder if I should rent an expensive VPS just to build my haskel
2021-03-02 13:04:21 +0100 <ggVGc> l
2021-03-02 13:04:44 +0100gay(~gay@178.217.208.8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 13:04:58 +0100bobiusbillius(6d998222@host109-153-130-34.range109-153.btcentralplus.com)
2021-03-02 13:05:23 +0100 <ggVGc> Or just bite the bullet and have a desktop again
2021-03-02 13:05:48 +0100rdivyanshu(uid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hhsehrobfpkiaywm)
2021-03-02 13:08:55 +0100 <merijn> I mean, you wouldn't even need an *expensive* one, just one that's not "the absolute cheapest"
2021-03-02 13:10:00 +0100o1lo01ol1o(~o1lo01ol1@bl7-89-228.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 13:10:04 +0100guest743254(~gay@178.217.208.8)
2021-03-02 13:17:02 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2021-03-02 13:17:10 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-088-064-063-125.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2021-03-02 13:18:55 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2021-03-02 13:21:39 +0100mayleesia(4e37a6aa@dynamic-078-055-166-170.78.55.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-02 13:23:16 +0100 <mniip> ggVGc, just buy a massive laptop
2021-03-02 13:23:21 +0100mayleesia(4e37a6aa@dynamic-078-055-166-170.78.55.pool.telefonica.de) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 13:25:14 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 13:25:57 +0100boxscape19boxscape
2021-03-02 13:25:59 +0100plutoniix(~q@184.82.220.117) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 13:26:48 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-7-145.A213.priv.bahnhof.se)
2021-03-02 13:26:48 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@h-7-145.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host)
2021-03-02 13:26:48 +0100edwtjo(~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo)
2021-03-02 13:27:04 +0100polux200137polux2001
2021-03-02 13:29:36 +0100 <Axman6> or like a Threadripper
2021-03-02 13:29:50 +0100 <ggVGc> I think you mean a macbook m1
2021-03-02 13:29:57 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 13:30:03 +0100 <Axman6> eh, not yet, but in a year or two definitely
2021-03-02 13:30:27 +0100 <Axman6> they are currently very impressive, but they will be insane in the next few years
2021-03-02 13:32:29 +0100 <bobiusbillius> unless you know you need a fast cpu, you probably don't
2021-03-02 13:33:47 +0100 <bobiusbillius> e.g. i got a sub $100 thinkcentre from ebay, added an ssd, and it's fine for my daily use
2021-03-02 13:34:14 +0100 <Axman6> well we're talking about compiling (I assume Haskell), so all the resources you can get will help
2021-03-02 13:34:35 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 13:35:36 +0100 <bobiusbillius> i missed the original post; it obviously depends on what is being compiled.
2021-03-02 13:37:05 +0100saitamaplus(uid272474@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bcbjlbciivamqkbi) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-02 13:38:31 +0100 <ggVGc> I'd argue it doesn't. Every 500ms shaved off a compilation cycle significantly affects how I am able to work on a project. Granted, if it's alread yunder 500ms, then it doesn't matter
2021-03-02 13:38:42 +0100 <ggVGc> but I'd argue very few haskell projects compile under 500ms
2021-03-02 13:39:12 +0100 <ggVGc> if it's so high that 500ms makes no difference, then it's already a terrible time
2021-03-02 13:39:28 +0100 <merijn> ggVGc: ghcide has been neer instant for me even on big projects
2021-03-02 13:39:59 +0100 <ggVGc> but, you can't build and run your project using ghcide, right?
2021-03-02 13:40:07 +0100 <ggVGc> I'm not talking about LSP help
2021-03-02 13:40:25 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 13:40:33 +0100 <merijn> Like, incremental rebuilds are easily moving towards 30s - 1.5 minute (depending on where in the graph), but ghcide is still near instant
2021-03-02 13:40:40 +0100 <ggVGc> anyway, my project sucks extra hard since it's a DSL, that generates C++ that I then have to compile...
2021-03-02 13:40:43 +0100 <boxscape> you might be able to run your project in ghci, though it depends on the kind of project it is
2021-03-02 13:40:44 +0100 <ggVGc> so it's 3 compilations
2021-03-02 13:40:51 +0100cgadski(~cgadski@a95-95-106-208.cpe.netcabo.pt)
2021-03-02 13:41:05 +0100 <merijn> ggVGc: No, but the feedback from typechecking is much more important while I code than the time to run it when I finish refactoring
2021-03-02 13:41:05 +0100 <ggVGc> merijn: yeah, that's fair, but I also need the project to run fast
2021-03-02 13:41:08 +0100 <ggVGc> so I can't use ghci
2021-03-02 13:41:20 +0100 <merijn> ggVGc: ghcide doesn't use ghci
2021-03-02 13:41:39 +0100 <boxscape> (think the ghci part was supposed to be a response to me merijn)
2021-03-02 13:41:42 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2021-03-02 13:42:02 +0100 <merijn> ggVGc: note that ghcide /= ghcid, with the former being what haskell-language-server builds on
2021-03-02 13:43:07 +0100 <ggVGc> sure, I get what you're saying, and I also use it. But it doesn't help my use case since my "compilation cycle" also includes running the binary
2021-03-02 13:43:11 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@i577BCEB5.versanet.de)
2021-03-02 13:43:42 +0100 <ggVGc> for normal haskell development I agree, full recompilation time is less important if the IDE help is fast
2021-03-02 13:43:46 +0100kenran(~kenran@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2021-03-02 13:44:00 +0100 <merijn> Well, then you're hosed ;)
2021-03-02 13:44:10 +0100 <merijn> But I don't think there's many candidates that are faster :p
2021-03-02 13:44:57 +0100 <ggVGc> this DSL I made agitates me in many ways all the time, but at the same time I don't know how I could have implemented and hav eit be as useful as it is with another tool
2021-03-02 13:45:21 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-02 13:45:49 +0100 <ggVGc> getting all of the lightweight syntax and composition in haskell as the meta-language for it is a huge win
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2021-03-02 14:26:16 +0100Xenosi(5152c413@d5152c413.static.telenet.be)
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2021-03-02 14:34:46 +0100asdasd2(5a9e0af2@90.158.10.242)
2021-03-02 14:34:59 +0100 <Ericson2314> edwardk: it finally (!) landed end of last year. Will be out in 9.2
2021-03-02 14:35:19 +0100_rht(uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flgafvdijlixohjl)
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2021-03-02 14:38:54 +0100 <Xenosi> Hello! I have a question about Template Haskell and someone told me to ask it here, is that OK?
2021-03-02 14:39:13 +0100 <Axman6> of course
2021-03-02 14:39:27 +0100noctuks(LDK5x9ebpQ@unaffiliated/noctux) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-03-02 14:39:27 +0100yushyin(UeEdseyCqW@karif.server-speed.net) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
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2021-03-02 14:40:05 +0100plast1k_(~plast1k_@105.178.35.11)
2021-03-02 14:40:17 +0100 <Xenosi> I am trying to make an Exp from a Bool without using the Q monad
2021-03-02 14:40:29 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 14:40:39 +0100 <Xenosi> Because I get staging errors when I try to splice it using the Q monad
2021-03-02 14:40:51 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-02 14:41:17 +0100 <Xenosi> The problem is, I can only seem to find Literal constructors for Characters, Integers and strings
2021-03-02 14:42:24 +0100i7c(M924mJs6bG@unaffiliated/i7c)
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2021-03-02 14:44:08 +0100 <ij> Could Storable instead of Unboxed improve performance, because GC doesn't move it and void memory cache?
2021-03-02 14:44:12 +0100wmacmil(~wmacmil@c83-252-138-144.bredband.comhem.se)
2021-03-02 14:45:16 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 14:46:20 +0100 <merijn> ij: Storable can improve things because you can do AoS, rather than SoA (as Unboxed enforced)
2021-03-02 14:46:35 +0100 <ij> because of locality?
2021-03-02 14:47:05 +0100 <ij> and because assembling the structure is faster?
2021-03-02 14:47:10 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@252.248.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2021-03-02 14:47:19 +0100 <ij> or do you not even need to assemble it, just copy
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2021-03-02 14:48:43 +0100Robert1(~Robert@185.204.1.185)
2021-03-02 14:49:08 +0100 <ij> no, they're not just copied according to docs below "class Storable"
2021-03-02 14:49:10 +0100billiusbobbius(~billiusbo@2a00:23c7:9909:5b01:909a:85aa:703a:457c)
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2021-03-02 14:59:44 +0100 <ij> merijn, so, is it because of locality or is there something else?
2021-03-02 14:59:52 +0100bobbill(~bobbill@2a00:23c7:9909:5b01:909a:85aa:703a:457c)
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2021-03-02 15:03:27 +0100 <dminuoso> ij: Well sure, it has different locality.
2021-03-02 15:03:51 +0100 <dminuoso> If you want to traverse data, then AoS is more efficient since you can fit more per cache line
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2021-03-02 15:04:28 +0100 <dminuoso> On some numerical calculations SoA can be more efficient if you leverage SIMD a lot (which in GHC Haskell requires manual use of SIMD primops)
2021-03-02 15:04:47 +0100kam1(~kam1@5.125.82.63)
2021-03-02 15:04:49 +0100 <dminuoso> The advantage depends on the usage pattern
2021-03-02 15:04:54 +0100 <ij> right, it depends :/
2021-03-02 15:05:00 +0100 <dminuoso> There's also a third option
2021-03-02 15:05:05 +0100 <ij> I am just blindsighted by the fact that I know what the usecase is going to be
2021-03-02 15:05:31 +0100 <dminuoso> You can keep *both* representations around.
2021-03-02 15:05:57 +0100 <dminuoso> Or do something like AoSoA, which is best done with Storable I guess.
2021-03-02 15:06:06 +0100 <dminuoso> (Or unboxed + storable)
2021-03-02 15:06:15 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 15:06:58 +0100 <Cale> Xenosi: There's nothing special about True and False, they're data constructors like any others. So you want ConE
2021-03-02 15:07:29 +0100roconnor(~roconnor@host-104-157-194-235.dyn.295.ca)
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2021-03-02 15:07:34 +0100 <ij> dminuoso, cool, though I don't need such exoticity yet :) dminuoso, merijn, thank you
2021-03-02 15:07:36 +0100 <Cale> ConE 'True and ConE 'False
2021-03-02 15:07:49 +0100bobiusbillius(~bobiusbil@2a00:23c7:9909:5b01:909a:85aa:703a:457c)
2021-03-02 15:09:01 +0100 <Xenosi> Cale: Thank you, I was looking too far it seems
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2021-03-02 15:37:50 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2021-03-02 15:39:03 +0100 <perrier-jouet> is it ok to install all haskell packages globally or per project basis ?
2021-03-02 15:39:12 +0100mayleesia(4e37a6aa@dynamic-078-055-166-170.78.55.pool.telefonica.de)
2021-03-02 15:39:21 +0100 <merijn> perrier-jouet: Which tool are you using?
2021-03-02 15:39:26 +0100deja(~deja@213142096165.public.telering.at) (Quit: requested)
2021-03-02 15:39:43 +0100usr25(~usr25@unaffiliated/usr25)
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2021-03-02 15:40:52 +0100 <merijn> perrier-jouet: cabal automatically handles conflicting global installs (it supports arbitrarily many conflicting installs of the same package and automatically provides projects with a consistent view)
2021-03-02 15:41:23 +0100 <merijn> perrier-jouet: stack otoh sandboxes per snapshot and only exposes packages from a single snapshot to a project
2021-03-02 15:41:37 +0100 <merijn> So either way there's not really a thing like "per project" or "global"
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2021-03-02 15:51:50 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-101-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2021-03-02 15:53:14 +0100 <Franciman> stack is slow
2021-03-02 15:53:29 +0100_noblegas(uid91066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjmongmnsmgaohho)
2021-03-02 15:54:00 +0100 <maerwald> Franciman: in what way?
2021-03-02 15:54:19 +0100 <maerwald> many operations are faster than cabal (except the thing where it downloads GHC all the time)
2021-03-02 15:54:28 +0100 <Franciman> I changed lts version, it is compiling the whole hackage, it seems
2021-03-02 15:54:35 +0100 <Franciman> and yes it is downloading a new ghc
2021-03-02 15:54:36 +0100 <maerwald> that's expected
2021-03-02 15:55:15 +0100 <maerwald> `stack install` is way faster than `cabal install`, same for stack scripts vs cabal-scripts
2021-03-02 15:55:15 +0100 <Franciman> I am trapped in this piece of software
2021-03-02 15:55:40 +0100 <Franciman> the problem is that it does many things I do not need
2021-03-02 15:55:45 +0100 <maerwald> cabals configure phase and checking caching wastes a lot of time
2021-03-02 15:56:15 +0100 <maerwald> yes, you can stack to shut up and use system ghc
2021-03-02 15:56:18 +0100 <maerwald> *tell
2021-03-02 15:57:08 +0100 <Franciman> oh really?
2021-03-02 15:57:08 +0100 <maerwald> tying GHC version to a set of packages is non-sensical, except for cases where base requires it (rarely), so I tend to just ignore that part
2021-03-02 15:57:10 +0100 <maerwald> yes
2021-03-02 15:57:25 +0100 <Franciman> that's game changing
2021-03-02 15:57:26 +0100 <Franciman> thanks
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2021-03-02 16:36:30 +0100jil`(~user@45.86.162.6) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)")
2021-03-02 16:38:04 +0100jil(~user@45.86.162.6)
2021-03-02 16:38:08 +0100 <jil> hello
2021-03-02 16:38:58 +0100 <maralorn> Does anyone know about a irc/matrix/slack/discord Room where I can ask questions about cardano?
2021-03-02 16:39:16 +0100todda7(~torstein@athedsl-258913.home.otenet.gr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 16:40:22 +0100liyang(~liyang@cpc80675-stap13-2-0-cust362.12-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-03-02 16:40:24 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
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2021-03-02 16:40:29 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 16:40:51 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-02 16:41:12 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2021-03-02 16:41:55 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-02 16:42:19 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 16:44:10 +0100 <jil> I know about forum.cardano.org .
2021-03-02 16:45:02 +0100 <jil> Is there a code formatter like black in python for haskell ? Something that indents code, add space in a standard way.
2021-03-02 16:45:14 +0100 <maerwald> standard?
2021-03-02 16:45:51 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 16:46:15 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 16:46:23 +0100 <boxscape> jil there's several, some that come to mind are ormolu, fourmolu, brittany
2021-03-02 16:47:49 +0100 <jil> I use emacs and maybe I could run some of these with a key stroke. Thank you boxscape
2021-03-02 16:49:29 +0100tweek(~tweek@2603-6010-b207-6d3b-058f-45fa-65e0-88fa.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 16:49:49 +0100berberman_(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman)
2021-03-02 16:50:26 +0100berberman(~berberman@unaffiliated/berberman) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 16:51:17 +0100 <jil> eval s (Var x) = find x s
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2021-03-02 17:00:09 +0100tomsen[m](tfbiomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-junoizbhiuyanlfn) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
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2021-03-02 17:05:31 +0100 <maralorn> jil: Thanks. I was there the other day but looking again I found exactly what I wanted to know.
2021-03-02 17:05:42 +0100mananamenos(~mananamen@193.red-88-11-66.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
2021-03-02 17:05:53 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 17:06:45 +0100 <dminuoso> jil: stylish-haskell also exists
2021-03-02 17:07:35 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-03-02 17:09:56 +0100 <sm[m]> maralorn: you found the irc channel and matrix room I guess
2021-03-02 17:09:59 +0100 <maerwald> maralorn: what type of question?
2021-03-02 17:10:01 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-02 17:10:32 +0100nurupo_nurupo
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2021-03-02 17:12:06 +0100 <sm[m]> (4 matrix rooms now, actually)
2021-03-02 17:13:07 +0100 <maralorn> maerwald: I was curious about where cardano gets the randomness to select validators. But I found a post in the forum that explains it.
2021-03-02 17:20:29 +0100kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i7beqcypgxlfat.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
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2021-03-02 17:40:24 +0100 <sm[m]> maralorn: what was the gist of it ? Some kind of seed that's propagated around ?
2021-03-02 17:40:30 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 17:40:50 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-02 17:41:06 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 17:42:23 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 17:43:15 +0100 <maralorn> sm: I think the idea is the following: At the start of each epoch every stakeholder generates a random seed and commits it's hash to chain. After that is locked they all post the random seeds and they get combined to create the seed to determine who validates which slot in that epoch.
2021-03-02 17:43:38 +0100 <maralorn> Because everyone needs to commit their randomness before seeing the randomness of the others no one can hack the process to influence the RNG in their favor.
2021-03-02 17:44:09 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 17:44:26 +0100 <maralorn> I may have garbled the exact protocol, but this is the idea in principle.
2021-03-02 17:44:29 +0100 <sm[m]> nice, thanks
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2021-03-02 19:29:18 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-02 19:29:26 +0100 <ixlun> Hi all, I've been experimenting with mutable references in haskell and I've got: https://termbin.com/jg6ql . Is there a way I can make both `a' and `b' point to the same object so that mutation through either `a' or `b' is observed by the other IORef?
2021-03-02 19:29:38 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@gateway/tor-sasl/gioyik) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-03-02 19:30:01 +0100jrqc(~rofl@96.78.87.197)
2021-03-02 19:30:13 +0100 <monochrom> let b = a
2021-03-02 19:30:27 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-03-02 19:30:34 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: eh, by not having two IORefs? :p
2021-03-02 19:30:40 +0100 <monochrom> "point to the same object" = aliasing. Definition.
2021-03-02 19:30:48 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2601:2c1:200:ec50:2c10:d848:8f1f:38a4)
2021-03-02 19:31:01 +0100raehik1(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-03-02 19:31:19 +0100 <ixlun> Ahhh, of course!
2021-03-02 19:31:31 +0100ixlunfeels a bit silly for asking that question now!
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2021-03-02 19:32:08 +0100 <FortuneZero> use the same IORef in both places
2021-03-02 19:32:16 +0100ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-03-02 19:32:27 +0100 <koz_> An IORef is essentially a pointer.
2021-03-02 19:32:36 +0100 <FortuneZero> IORef is a pointer to box where the value is stored
2021-03-02 19:32:47 +0100 <FortuneZero> copy the pointer as much as you want
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2021-03-02 19:33:28 +0100ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
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2021-03-02 19:33:55 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 19:33:56 +0100 <ixlun> So, I presume that newIORef will create a copy of whatever is being pointed to, even if it's the same object?
2021-03-02 19:33:56 +0100 <ixlun> ind
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2021-03-02 19:34:12 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-03-02 19:34:13 +0100 <monochrom> I don't think that model gets you very far.
2021-03-02 19:34:24 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: Define "same object"
2021-03-02 19:34:31 +0100ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-03-02 19:34:36 +0100 <monochrom> Instead, this model gets you very far, probably all the way down to asm: Each name is a pointer.
2021-03-02 19:34:58 +0100 <monochrom> And an IORef is already the box itself.
2021-03-02 19:35:13 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: newIORef allocates a (mutable) reference (hence, "Ref") to a value. You cannot mutate the values inside, you *can* mutate the reference to point at different values
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2021-03-02 19:37:03 +0100 <ixlun> monochrom: in that case, why doesn't a and b point to the same object? They where both created from the same name, `ourmap'?
2021-03-02 19:37:22 +0100 <monochrom> newIORef creates and returns a brand new box.
2021-03-02 19:37:38 +0100 <monochrom> You call it twice you get two distinct boxes.
2021-03-02 19:37:39 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: They do
2021-03-02 19:37:56 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: But you can't change the object pointed too, you change the pointer
2021-03-02 19:38:22 +0100 <merijn> ixlun: So "pointing at the same object" isn't something you can meaningfully distinguish anyway
2021-03-02 19:38:43 +0100aenesidemus(~aenesidem@c-73-53-247-25.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
2021-03-02 19:38:51 +0100 <ixlun> Right, okay. so mofiyIORef will change the pointer, *not* the underlying object.
2021-03-02 19:38:56 +0100 <merijn> Yes
2021-03-02 19:39:38 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@191.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net)
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2021-03-02 19:39:38 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
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2021-03-02 19:40:14 +0100 <ixlun> Ahh, right, so that's why IORef can point to immutable data, `Map' in this case.
2021-03-02 19:40:14 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 19:40:31 +0100 <ixlun> and give the impression of mutation.
2021-03-02 19:41:41 +0100 <maralorn> simonmic: But this also explains why you can only make delegation changes for the second next epoch. Because I assume that the next epoch will be needed to establish the order in the epoch after it.
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2021-03-02 19:42:31 +0100 <geekosaur> channel?
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2021-03-02 19:52:57 +0100Noldorin(~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin)
2021-03-02 19:52:59 +0100 <d34df00d> Alright, I haven't written advanced type-level haskell for a while, so how what's the ghc way to spell out the kind of a type constructor FooType that could be used as `FooType '[ 1, 2, 3 ]`?
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2021-03-02 19:53:36 +0100 <d34df00d> I basically want something like Idris' data FooType : List Nat -> Type where ...
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2021-03-02 20:17:44 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 20:18:42 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> ixlun: if you want to experiment with mutability, building a gui might be more convenient than using console input-output. You can build simple console-based gui using ansi-terminal package
2021-03-02 20:19:43 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2021-03-02 20:20:00 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 20:22:53 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> the simplest gui could be something like "x = 1, y = 2, press e to enter edit mode, press q to quit"
2021-03-02 20:23:15 +0100 <monochrom> That seems more like a huge distraction and yak shaving than conveniece to me.
2021-03-02 20:24:12 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> but once you're done with the yak shaving you have a neat interface that shows you all the values at once
2021-03-02 20:24:18 +0100Noldorin(~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2021-03-02 20:24:24 +0100 <monochrom> I got much more mileage by just writing the same kind of 10-line toy programs ixlun wrote.
2021-03-02 20:25:04 +0100Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-igqvlzivrkvilmgu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-03-02 20:25:35 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201)
2021-03-02 20:25:37 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and you can handle arrow button press events
2021-03-02 20:26:12 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and then for example incrementing a value becomes easier
2021-03-02 20:26:30 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> you don't have to type a new value, you just press "up"
2021-03-02 20:27:25 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 20:27:29 +0100 <monochrom> The reason the frugal "dry" "dull" approach works is because there is not much to understand and experiment with mutability.
2021-03-02 20:27:35 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 20:28:10 +0100 <monochrom> There are about 5 well-designed toy programs that answer all questions.
2021-03-02 20:28:28 +0100 <monochrom> Beyond that it's just addiction.
2021-03-02 20:29:51 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> this is the first time I hear about 5 toy programs that answer all questions about mutability
2021-03-02 20:30:10 +0100 <monochrom> Well, OK, just IORef.
2021-03-02 20:30:19 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> how do I find them? can you give me some keywords?
2021-03-02 20:30:47 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> oh, ok
2021-03-02 20:30:58 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> but anyway, links would be appreciated
2021-03-02 20:32:39 +0100 <monochrom> https://termbin.com/jg6ql for starter? I.e., the original one that started the discussion.
2021-03-02 20:33:30 +0100 <monochrom> This one asks whether "newIORef ourmap" converts ourmap to a mutable thing or it's an entirely different model.
2021-03-02 20:33:55 +0100 <monochrom> I don't see how GUIizing it adds any value then a simple init-then-print.
2021-03-02 20:34:17 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 20:34:37 +0100 <monochrom> I don't see how "press f to increment" answers the really important questions like this one.
2021-03-02 20:34:41 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 20:34:51 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> one note: handling arrow button press events doesn't depend on the ansi-terminal package, you can do that with no dependency at all. you need to disable buffering when reading from console. see https://stackoverflow.com/a/38553473/8569383
2021-03-02 20:35:02 +0100 <monochrom> But eye candies and indulgence, sure.
2021-03-02 20:36:33 +0100 <boxscape> d34df00d you should be able to translate that quite literally, `data FooType :: [Nat] -> Type where ...`
2021-03-02 20:37:26 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 20:38:18 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> monochrom: I mean, when you experiment with mutability, I expect later experiments to gradually become more complex
2021-03-02 20:38:39 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and gui might be helpful in those cases
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2021-03-02 20:39:30 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 20:39:54 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> when you want to see how values change in real time
2021-03-02 20:45:45 +0100augnun(~augnun@2804:14c:658b:41bb:3843:ca5d:efc4:9380)
2021-03-02 20:46:17 +0100 <monochrom> That sounds speculative not evidenced.
2021-03-02 20:46:50 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> yeah, that's subjective anyway
2021-03-02 20:47:20 +0100 <monochrom> No. You're mistaking speculative for subjective.
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2021-03-02 20:47:57 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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2021-03-02 20:48:14 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> for me, it is more convenient to imagine a gui when experimenting with mutability, it gives a new perspective. And from that perspective, I can ask new questions, or can come up with new ideas.
2021-03-02 20:48:39 +0100 <monochrom> "Does music help you code?" is subjective, it works differently for different people. "I say that music helps coding for 85% of programmers" that's speculative, I have no evidence, I made it up.
2021-03-02 20:48:59 +0100garFF(~garff@0x3e2c8674.mobile.telia.dk)
2021-03-02 20:50:07 +0100 <koz_> I wanna say 'not a Monad' in adjectival form. Best I can come up with is 'sub-Monadic'. Does anyoen have a better form for this?
2021-03-02 20:50:28 +0100hyperisco(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net)
2021-03-02 20:50:31 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and sometimes it is hard to come up with an idea of a console application with no gui
2021-03-02 20:50:42 +0100 <monochrom> non-monadic?
2021-03-02 20:51:02 +0100 <dolio> 'Sub' sounds like it could give the wrong impression.
2021-03-02 20:51:12 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> koz_: non-monadic?
2021-03-02 20:51:21 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 20:51:27 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 20:51:31 +0100 <koz_> Non-monadic could work, but still feels a bit ehh.
2021-03-02 20:51:41 +0100 <koz_> dolio: In what way?
2021-03-02 20:51:42 +0100 <monochrom> I know.
2021-03-02 20:52:05 +0100 <monochrom> I would try avoiding adjective first.
2021-03-02 20:52:24 +0100 <monochrom> But English is fundamentally broken in the first place.
2021-03-02 20:53:13 +0100 <koz_> monochrom: Yes, but I can't fix that much legacy.
2021-03-02 20:53:28 +0100 <dolio> koz_: It might suggest the same thing as subset, subgroup, etc.
2021-03-02 20:53:49 +0100 <monochrom> In Chinese you just do "not monad" for the noun and "not monadic" for the adjective. It's a pretty concatenative language. I heard German is too...
2021-03-02 20:53:50 +0100 <dolio> I.E. a monad that is somehow a substructure of another monad.
2021-03-02 20:54:14 +0100 <koz_> Also dolio: What would a free Traversable look like? By which I mean some 'Trav f a' such that 'Traversable (Trav f)' for any f?
2021-03-02 20:54:19 +0100 <koz_> dolio: Yeah, fair point.
2021-03-02 20:54:55 +0100 <dolio> I think that's called `Bazaar` in lens.
2021-03-02 20:55:25 +0100 <koz_> dolio: Wait, _that_ is what Bazaar is?
2021-03-02 20:55:40 +0100Feuermagier_(~Feuermagi@2a02:2488:4211:3400:246e:bf09:8453:9d6)
2021-03-02 20:55:49 +0100Feuermagier_(~Feuermagi@2a02:2488:4211:3400:246e:bf09:8453:9d6) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 20:55:49 +0100 <dolio> :)
2021-03-02 20:55:58 +0100 <monochrom> I face similar hurdle with "not regular". That one is easier, "non-regular" seems to work OK. It's why I try "non-monadic".
2021-03-02 20:56:10 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@2a02:2488:4211:3400:246e:bf09:8453:9d6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 20:56:19 +0100 <koz_> dolio: But it doesn't have that instance.
2021-03-02 20:57:10 +0100 <d34df00d> boxscape: right, thanks! I had an extra tick that broke things (that is, '[Nat] -> Type).
2021-03-02 20:57:11 +0100 <dolio> It might be too parameterized.
2021-03-02 20:57:23 +0100 <boxscape> understandable
2021-03-02 20:57:46 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> maybe a category theory can provide an insight. like, if it's not a monad, then what is it? a functor, applicative, or maybe some term I don't know
2021-03-02 20:57:59 +0100 <dolio> Anyhow, it would be very similar to Bazaar.
2021-03-02 20:58:24 +0100 <koz_> __minoru__shirae: It could be Applicative. It could also be a bunch of other things.
2021-03-02 20:58:33 +0100 <koz_> Hence why I'm not 'pinning' it to any of the above.
2021-03-02 20:59:01 +0100crobbins(~crobbins@2600:1700:48eb:8490:dd46:64cd:ab2e:66bc)
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2021-03-02 21:04:36 +0100 <dminuoso> monochrom: By the way, it's called agglutinative not concatenative. :)
2021-03-02 21:04:55 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:04:58 +0100monochromcries
2021-03-02 21:05:04 +0100 <dminuoso> And in German the example only works for adjectives "nicht monadisch", for nouns I don't think there's an equivalent way
2021-03-02 21:05:15 +0100ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:7511:4100:6209:4ebe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:05:34 +0100 <dminuoso> Unmonade perhaps? But that sounds really awkward.
2021-03-02 21:05:53 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-03-02 21:06:10 +0100 <monochrom> Unmonads doubleplusplus ungood.
2021-03-02 21:06:25 +0100 <dolio> What's the explanation for stuff like "entscheidungsproblem" then?
2021-03-02 21:07:02 +0100 <dolio> Or nullstellensatz.
2021-03-02 21:07:05 +0100fendor(~fendor@91.141.3.125.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2021-03-02 21:07:08 +0100 <monochrom> Perhaps "unmonadic" works.
2021-03-02 21:07:10 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp)
2021-03-02 21:07:27 +0100 <boxscape> dolio I think the caveat was specifically that there's no good translation for the "non-" prefix
2021-03-02 21:07:33 +0100 <dminuoso> dolio: We can agglutinate nouns just fine, but the noun version of "non-monadic" there's no noun for "non"
2021-03-02 21:07:41 +0100 <dolio> Oh I see.
2021-03-02 21:08:16 +0100 <monochrom> When a language is not recognizable (recognizable = semi-decidable), I am really tempted to say "unrecognizable", but it sounds more like a joke than serious.
2021-03-02 21:08:17 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 21:08:27 +0100 <dminuoso> (And we can agglutinate adjectives with nouns too, but "nicht monadisch" is not a single adjective, so it doesnt work)
2021-03-02 21:08:41 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 21:09:32 +0100 <dminuoso> Like Kleinformat (= small format)
2021-03-02 21:09:47 +0100 <monochrom> Wait, you don't add "un" to "m". You add "im". "immonadic"...
2021-03-02 21:10:09 +0100 <boxscape> nonimmonadic
2021-03-02 21:10:11 +0100 <dolio> I have to say, it seems like German mathematicians were good at naming their stuff, but then people that spoke other languages just used the German words instead of using the same approach.
2021-03-02 21:10:14 +0100 <dminuoso> monochrom: Yeah, I suppose that's the latin origin there. In German that becomes `un`
2021-03-02 21:10:21 +0100FortuneZero(3223b878@50.35.184.120) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-03-02 21:10:26 +0100 <monochrom> immonadic immobile immu calculus
2021-03-02 21:11:13 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah eigenvalues instead of characteristic values. Then again "eigen" is shorter so meh.
2021-03-02 21:11:30 +0100 <boxscape> to be fair "zero position sentence" just doesn't have the same ring to it as nullstellensatz
2021-03-02 21:12:23 +0100 <monochrom> ooohhhh is that what the movie title "the zero theorem" trying to say...
2021-03-02 21:12:35 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm, "eigen" is a strange prefix here. Id have to look into old dictionaries, but I dont associate it with "characteristic"
2021-03-02 21:13:35 +0100 <monochrom> OK, I googled "eigen", got "own", "inherent" "peculiar".
2021-03-02 21:13:56 +0100geowiesnot_bis(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:14:21 +0100 <dolio> It's a bit of a stretch.
2021-03-02 21:15:39 +0100 <monochrom> I think it was wise to keep "eigen" in English and not bother translate it. It doesn't look like any translation preserves the spirit. :)
2021-03-02 21:15:55 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm, as far as I can make it out, Hilbert chose that prefix without any justification.
2021-03-02 21:16:18 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:16:56 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:17:00 +0100 <monochrom> I wanted to say "Hilbert made it up" back when "entscheidungsproblem" was brought up. Now I know I'm right, he made up all of the above. :)
2021-03-02 21:17:20 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, maybe it was just Hilbert.
2021-03-02 21:17:28 +0100ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:3056:df9b:393a:c87f)
2021-03-02 21:17:38 +0100 <dolio> Giving things names that at least somewhat describe them. :)
2021-03-02 21:18:23 +0100 <dminuoso> I guess at the end this is exactly how language evolve. Every time you find something new, you either have to reuse an existing term and stretch its definition (or change it), or you try and find some compound of existing terms to describe it.
2021-03-02 21:18:35 +0100 <dminuoso> Either way, the act of coining a term is partly how language evolves.
2021-03-02 21:19:11 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 21:19:38 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 21:20:00 +0100Noldorin(~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin)
2021-03-02 21:20:02 +0100 <geekosaur> not sure I count this as part of language evolution given that there are very few places where I encounter "eigenvalue" etc. :)
2021-03-02 21:20:03 +0100Noldorin(~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) (Client Quit)
2021-03-02 21:21:31 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-46.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-03-02 21:21:43 +0100 <pjb> This is jargon. It doesn't matter what word is used. It's probably better to use a foreign word, since this let us avoid overloading a known word.
2021-03-02 21:21:43 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-03-02 21:22:17 +0100emmanuel_erc(~user@2603-7000-9600-01c9-c404-e80d-f3d0-d4c5.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 21:22:20 +0100 <dminuoso> pjb: Except for the people from that foreign country. :)
2021-03-02 21:22:31 +0100 <pjb> Of course :-)
2021-03-02 21:22:54 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps that would make a case for dead languages like latin to be used instead.
2021-03-02 21:22:56 +0100 <dminuoso> Nobody to offend.
2021-03-02 21:23:12 +0100 <monochrom> There is an smbc for that. :)
2021-03-02 21:23:28 +0100 <pjb> Latin is a live and official language of the Vatican.
2021-03-02 21:23:39 +0100 <monochrom> https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/doctor-2
2021-03-02 21:23:43 +0100 <dminuoso> pjb: Good thing they're not concerned with science, eh?
2021-03-02 21:23:49 +0100 <boxscape> googel translate says "eigenwert" in latin is "dignitate"
2021-03-02 21:23:50 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2021-03-02 21:24:01 +0100 <boxscape> oh that's like
2021-03-02 21:24:05 +0100 <boxscape> self-worth
2021-03-02 21:24:06 +0100 <pjb> dminuoso: but they are.
2021-03-02 21:24:20 +0100 <boxscape> dignity
2021-03-02 21:24:59 +0100 <dminuoso> boxscape: Mmm, going from eigenwert to selbstwert is very strange. Perhaps this is a flaky neural network artifact?
2021-03-02 21:25:11 +0100 <dminuoso> (Because I can see how someone would translate it like that.. it
2021-03-02 21:25:12 +0100 <boxscape> could be, yeah. It doesn't have anything for eigenvalue
2021-03-02 21:25:15 +0100 <dminuoso> 's just wrong)
2021-03-02 21:25:45 +0100hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:ae28:1405:caeb:fbc8) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 21:25:51 +0100 <pjb> dminuoso: remember Galileo, Bruno, Georges Lemaître, etc, etc were all catholic priests or subventionned by the catholic church (and hence the requirement to remain chaste, which Galileo didn't respect, and which lead him to judicial problems (it wasn't only the cosmology).
2021-03-02 21:26:09 +0100 <dminuoso> pjb: Sure, but none of that still applies today.
2021-03-02 21:26:19 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-03-02 21:26:19 +0100supercoven(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng31-54fabd-233.dhcp.inet.fi)
2021-03-02 21:26:21 +0100francesco_(~francesco@host-82-49-79-189.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-03-02 21:26:22 +0100 <dminuoso> Modern scientists are not required to be catholic priests anymore.
2021-03-02 21:26:35 +0100 <pjb> Copernicus was Catholic canon.
2021-03-02 21:26:59 +0100 <pjb> dminuoso: no, but there are still a lot of priests who are scientists.
2021-03-02 21:27:35 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-088-064-063-125.088.064.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
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2021-03-02 21:27:57 +0100 <maerwald> Do you have to be a priest to write haskell?
2021-03-02 21:28:03 +0100 <boxscape> yes
2021-03-02 21:28:21 +0100 <pjb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists
2021-03-02 21:28:32 +0100 <geekosaur> this may explain a few things…
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2021-03-02 21:29:23 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> maerwald: "Do you have to be a priest to write haskell?" lol, make lambdabot remember this phrase
2021-03-02 21:29:27 +0100 <monochrom> Galileo was not a priest.
2021-03-02 21:29:28 +0100 <int-e> you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell
2021-03-02 21:30:03 +0100 <boxscape> I was waiting for someone to make a joke like that
2021-03-02 21:30:08 +0100 <monochrom> @remember maerwald Do you have to be a priest to write haskell?
2021-03-02 21:30:08 +0100 <lambdabot> It is stored.
2021-03-02 21:30:30 +0100 <maerwald> this is so out of context :p
2021-03-02 21:31:57 +0100 <monochrom> Andrew Gordon (1712–1751) – Benedictine monk, priest, physicist, inventor who made the first electric motor, and wrote the PhD thesis "functional I/O".
2021-03-02 21:32:27 +0100 <monochrom> err "functional programming and input/output"
2021-03-02 21:33:13 +0100 <monochrom> So yes you have to be a priest to understand why IO is a monad. >:)
2021-03-02 21:34:06 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> and this one too
2021-03-02 21:34:23 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> @remember int-e you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell
2021-03-02 21:34:23 +0100 <lambdabot> It is forever etched in my memory.
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2021-03-02 21:35:48 +0100 <boxscape> @quote church
2021-03-02 21:35:48 +0100 <lambdabot> procyon says: emk: You might get a wider audience with "Church is not just for Hoare's"
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2021-03-02 21:38:06 +0100 <koz_> boxscape: Lol.
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2021-03-02 21:48:42 +0100 <__minoru__shirae> @quote writings.of.church
2021-03-02 21:48:43 +0100 <lambdabot> int-e says: you don't actually need to study the scriptures (writings of Church) to code Haskell
2021-03-02 21:50:21 +0100ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus) (Quit: ->)
2021-03-02 21:51:07 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 21:51:19 +0100 <koz_> Alonzo Church has given us endless pun fodder with his (sur)name.
2021-03-02 21:53:09 +0100 <int-e> Don't mix Church and state.
2021-03-02 21:53:17 +0100 <int-e> (Old but glorious.)
2021-03-02 21:53:48 +0100 <monochrom> Hrm interesting, "cabal-version: 3.4": Remove -any and -none syntax for version ranges Use >=0 and <0 respectively.
2021-03-02 21:53:52 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:176:cad2:9667:c008)
2021-03-02 21:54:10 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@2600:1700:bef1:5e10:2d2c:7153:bdbb:6201)
2021-03-02 21:54:37 +0100remby(~rcg@bras-base-london1483w-grc-21-76-67-124-27.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-03-02 21:54:45 +0100 <koz_> int-e: I will have my optimal free State monad!
2021-03-02 21:55:15 +0100 <koz_> (although arguably, this is mixing Church and State)
2021-03-02 21:55:35 +0100 <monochrom> The church monad: newtype Church e a = Church (e -> a)
2021-03-02 21:55:43 +0100 <boxscape> @quote Church.and.state
2021-03-02 21:55:44 +0100 <lambdabot> shapr says: Haskell separates Church and state
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2021-03-02 21:57:43 +0100 <monochrom> cabal-install 3.4's "cabal freeze" saves index-state
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2021-03-02 22:09:35 +0100hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:3156:67e7:d2bc:c6e)
2021-03-02 22:10:39 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> gahhh why did uuid bump tasty lower bound
2021-03-02 22:10:45 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> makes my life more difficult
2021-03-02 22:11:31 +0100Benzi-Junior(~BenziJuni@88-149-67-143.du.xdsl.is)
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2021-03-02 22:57:33 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@252.248.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”)
2021-03-02 22:57:53 +0100tvTV
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2021-03-02 23:29:21 +0100 <zebrag> `Ap x y <*> z = Ap x (flip <$> y <*> z)`, okay I'm starting to understand a bit. Some elementary tutorial would be nice.
2021-03-02 23:30:01 +0100apache801(~rishi@wsip-70-168-153-252.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-03-02 23:31:05 +0100slack1256(~slack1256@45.4.2.52)
2021-03-02 23:31:11 +0100 <infinisil> :t \y z -> flip <$> y <*> z
2021-03-02 23:31:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => f (a1 -> a2 -> c) -> f a2 -> f (a1 -> c)
2021-03-02 23:32:17 +0100mouseghost(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl)
2021-03-02 23:32:17 +0100mouseghost(~draco@87-206-9-185.dynamic.chello.pl) (Changing host)
2021-03-02 23:32:17 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek)
2021-03-02 23:32:35 +0100finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:33:43 +0100 <zebrag> not bad
2021-03-02 23:34:05 +0100finn_elija(~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716)
2021-03-02 23:35:36 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2021-03-02 23:35:40 +0100goepsilongo(~goepsilon@2603-7000-ab00-62ed-0000-0000-0000-0c67.res6.spectrum.com)
2021-03-02 23:36:51 +0100hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:3156:67e7:d2bc:c6e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:37:36 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-02 23:38:02 +0100 <zebrag> Now the rest of Control.Applicative.Free, I need liftAp, just to read https://image.slidesharecdn.com/applicativestyleprogramming-160914224841/95/applicative-style-prog…
2021-03-02 23:38:37 +0100romesrf(~romes@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-02 23:38:50 +0100 <zebrag> Hum, I'll manage
2021-03-02 23:39:42 +0100dansho(~dansho@ec2-13-115-122-101.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-03-02 23:39:50 +0100ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.188)
2021-03-02 23:40:35 +0100tweek(~tweek@2603-6010-b207-6d3b-058f-45fa-65e0-88fa.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
2021-03-02 23:40:45 +0100son0p(~son0p@181.136.122.143) (Quit: Lost terminal)
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2021-03-02 23:41:55 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01:e0a:5cb:4430:ac92:f3cb:a8a3:4136) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:45:02 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:b7be:2af2:76b3:bfab) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:45:22 +0100romesrf(~romesrf@44.190.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt)
2021-03-02 23:45:44 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:68e3:9c1f:887c:d5b3)
2021-03-02 23:46:46 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:47:08 +0100dansho(~dansho@ec2-52-69-239-82.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2021-03-02 23:48:21 +0100hiroaki_(~hiroaki@2a02:8108:8c40:2bb8:b4e:b96c:b479:6a8f)
2021-03-02 23:50:25 +0100ddellacosta(~ddellacos@86.106.143.188) ()
2021-03-02 23:50:50 +0100rj(~x@gateway/tor-sasl/rj)
2021-03-02 23:53:29 +0100ddellacosta(ddellacost@gateway/vpn/mullvad/ddellacosta)
2021-03-02 23:53:41 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:176:cad2:9667:c008) ()
2021-03-02 23:54:08 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:176:cad2:9667:c008)
2021-03-02 23:55:22 +0100deviantfero(~deviantfe@190.150.27.58) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-03-02 23:56:50 +0100 <zebrag> I'll try this one, maybe it'll end up being easier to understand. It also is one of the recommended entry point. https://gergo.erdi.hu/blog/2012-12-01-static_analysis_with_applicatives/
2021-03-02 23:59:40 +0100chenshen(~chenshen@2620:10d:c090:400::5:3b8c)
2021-03-02 23:59:43 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)