IRCBrowse

2021/01/23

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2021-01-23 02:33:13 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 02:33:58 +0100 <hololeap> how would i make this data-files section togglable with a flag? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fourmolu-0.3.0.0/fourmolu.cabal
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2021-01-23 03:06:08 +0100hackagemealy 0.0.3 - See readme.md https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mealy-0.0.3 (tonyday567)
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2021-01-23 03:46:37 +0100hackageephemeral 0.0.1 - See readme.md https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ephemeral-0.0.1 (tonyday567)
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2021-01-23 04:07:10 +0100 <superstar64> is there a tool to find unused typeclasses instances in my code base?
2021-01-23 04:07:11 +0100fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:30f0:3e4d:2db1:15f4)
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2021-01-23 04:11:47 +0100perdent1(~perdent@101.179.130.83)
2021-01-23 04:14:47 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-124-121-237-56.revip2.asianet.co.th)
2021-01-23 04:15:06 +0100wildlander(~wildlande@unaffiliated/wildlander) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-01-23 04:15:33 +0100 <_deepfire> Great question, I'd like to know too..
2021-01-23 04:16:34 +0100 <glguy> I thought weeder might do it, but that's specifically listed as one of the limitations
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2021-01-23 04:45:33 +0100 <zebrag> [quote]: an applicative functor is just a functor that knows how to lift functions of arbitrary arities. (Isn't that awesome?)
2021-01-23 04:47:22 +0100flatheap(~quassel@pool-74-104-136-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
2021-01-23 04:48:25 +0100xirhtogal(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix)
2021-01-23 04:48:25 +0100lagothrix(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (Killed (verne.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2021-01-23 04:48:25 +0100xirhtogallagothrix
2021-01-23 04:58:25 +0100 <_deepfire> zebrag: where is that quote coming from, if I may ask?
2021-01-23 04:58:38 +0100boristheblade(~boristheb@87-95-17-95.bb.dnainternet.fi)
2021-01-23 05:00:01 +0100alexelcu(~alexelcu@142.93.180.198) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2021-01-23 05:00:54 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2021-01-23 05:00:58 +0100alexelcu(~alexelcu@142.93.180.198)
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2021-01-23 05:03:40 +0100dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin)
2021-01-23 05:04:24 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl)
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2021-01-23 05:05:24 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-23 05:08:32 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 05:09:38 +0100 <zebrag> _deepfire: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.0749.pdf
2021-01-23 05:12:04 +0100 <zebrag> Free Applicative Functors, Capriotty and Kaposi, 2014
2021-01-23 05:12:15 +0100 <zebrag> p. 7
2021-01-23 05:19:03 +0100adm_(~adm@42.109.143.146)
2021-01-23 05:20:03 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl)
2021-01-23 05:20:11 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-01-23 05:20:33 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-01-23 05:22:09 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Quit: leaving)
2021-01-23 05:23:08 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2021-01-23 05:23:29 +0100adm_(~adm@42.109.143.146) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 05:24:34 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 05:30:14 +0100stree(~stree@50-108-70-224.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
2021-01-23 05:30:33 +0100stree(~stree@50-108-70-224.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
2021-01-23 05:32:25 +0100ulidtko|kk(~ulidtko@193.111.48.79) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 05:32:37 +0100sh9(~sh9@softbank060116136158.bbtec.net)
2021-01-23 05:32:39 +0100superstar64(6ccefa7c@108-206-250-124.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2021-01-23 05:35:39 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl)
2021-01-23 05:36:05 +0100jb11235(~jb@49.207.223.236)
2021-01-23 05:37:45 +0100 <jb11235> ?wiki monad
2021-01-23 05:37:45 +0100 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/monad
2021-01-23 05:40:08 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-23 05:40:17 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-23 05:41:20 +0100jb11238(31cfdfec@49.207.223.236)
2021-01-23 05:41:37 +0100 <jb11238> ?wiki yama
2021-01-23 05:41:38 +0100 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/yama
2021-01-23 05:42:15 +0100hekkaidekapus}(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
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2021-01-23 06:17:21 +0100Mr_Cue(~Mr._Cue@pengyuzhou.com)
2021-01-23 06:20:11 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-01-23 06:24:52 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@2601:602:a080:fa0:e581:2aea:390:f892) ()
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2021-01-23 06:29:29 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2021-01-23 08:25:14 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysaunnzoa6io6u4x.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2021-01-23 08:25:44 +0100sgibber2018(d055ed90@208.85.237.144)
2021-01-23 08:26:19 +0100prlCIql6ruclcri(~f9jawUfat@2800:810:514:e7:6c31:2bd0:b581:f52) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-23 08:26:44 +0100avdb(~avdb@gateway/tor-sasl/avdb) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 08:27:55 +0100avdb(~avdb@gateway/tor-sasl/avdb)
2021-01-23 08:29:12 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 08:30:03 +0100bogdanp(~bogdanp@188.24.80.165)
2021-01-23 08:36:51 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 08:39:27 +0100p7lpa1ugixavugu(~atomic@2800:810:514:e7:8080:b5dd:9ae1:501b) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 08:45:07 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 08:54:56 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2021-01-23 08:56:01 +0100polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 08:56:36 +0100kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icnvzxdrjjpkjriu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-01-23 08:59:20 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:00:13 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 09:04:43 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:04:50 +0100hannah(546babef@84-107-171-239.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) (Quit: hannah)
2021-01-23 09:07:09 +0100Jd007(~Jd007@162.156.11.151) (Quit: Jd007)
2021-01-23 09:07:20 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2021-01-23 09:07:37 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40::2be4) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:08:05 +0100adeene(~adeene@181.131.0.191) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:09:37 +0100rfn(~user@116.88.230.170)
2021-01-23 09:13:36 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli)
2021-01-23 09:14:25 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.55.132.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2021-01-23 09:17:01 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 09:17:05 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-49-237-20-254.revip6.asianet.co.th)
2021-01-23 09:19:22 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 09:20:29 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:8c40:30cf:fb21:315b:387d)
2021-01-23 09:20:31 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 09:22:34 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 09:22:51 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-49-237-20-254.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-23 09:23:27 +0100marinelli(~marinelli@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
2021-01-23 09:24:18 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:24:42 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-01-23 09:25:22 +0100avdb(~avdb@gateway/tor-sasl/avdb) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:25:25 +0100Tesseraction_c(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction)
2021-01-23 09:27:53 +0100Tesseraction(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:27:54 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-01-23 09:27:54 +0100avdb(~avdb@gateway/tor-sasl/avdb)
2021-01-23 09:30:10 +0100Katarushisu(~Katarushi@cpc152083-finc20-2-0-cust170.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2021-01-23 09:31:22 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-124-121-237-56.revip2.asianet.co.th)
2021-01-23 09:39:44 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-124-121-237-56.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-23 09:40:14 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 09:45:56 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-170.static.apol.com.tw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:49:32 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 09:50:06 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 09:53:58 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 09:54:26 +0100tessier(~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:54:33 +0100Black(~Benett@unaffiliated/benett)
2021-01-23 09:54:39 +0100tessier(~treed@98.171.210.130)
2021-01-23 09:54:39 +0100tessier(~treed@98.171.210.130) (Changing host)
2021-01-23 09:54:39 +0100tessier(~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco)
2021-01-23 09:55:26 +0100Benett(~Benett@unaffiliated/benett) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:56:26 +0100pounce(~pounce@ns379743.ip-5-196-70.eu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:57:05 +0100badagga(~badagga@207.148.104.217) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 09:58:00 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 09:58:29 +0100BlackBenett
2021-01-23 09:59:03 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 09:59:48 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 10:01:07 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 10:01:41 +0100Guest18945lep-delete
2021-01-23 10:02:02 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 10:02:12 +0100pounce(~pounce@ns379743.ip-5-196-70.eu)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100bram[m]1(bramvdbnet@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flausrfxdvvarwxm) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100Vanilla[m](danielm14@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-awxjutosftkuncfl) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100freeman42x[m](freeman42x@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hbzkaijufkzzcjdd) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100kadoban(kadobanmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zsqqnlgeeerpazoa) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100fgaz(fgazmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qwcblseffshwekwg) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100hyiltiz-M(hyiltizkde@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-jljmxicmadzpzslm) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100benschza(~quassel@2604:1380:2000:cf00::1) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100oats(~hurr@durr/im/a/sheep) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100megaTherion(~therion@unix.io) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100benl23(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thfjynaiimpinank) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100PoliticsII______(sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnzqtdutccexjywp) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100adius(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpilxswwqsdjkidt) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100simony(sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iftxdytnixkwmkyg) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100lexi-lambda(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wazvuheyipjhlewf) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100sis7(~user@2001:15e8:110:473e::1) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100zhulikas(~derp@213.239.204.108) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100rslima_____(sid26145@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bfeyyrmllgmhdyap) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100\2E0KNO(~retlo@172.245.134.89) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100Putonlalla(~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100ephemera_(~E@122.34.1.187) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100alinab(sid468903@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkffdhjrtekfjgxd) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100zgrep(~zgrep@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100xsarnik0(xsarnik@gateway/shell/fi.muni.cz/x-wrudlzggfhmxxjno) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100SolarAquarion(SolarAquar@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-vaxxzctuxkewousu) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100TimWolla(~timwolla@2a01:4f8:150:6153:beef::6667) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100amatecha__(sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdqgbwrgwdnkyeme) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@152.67.162.71) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:04:35 +0100nemesit|znc(~nemesit@2a01:488:66:1000:2ea3:4eeb:0:1) (*.net *.split)
2021-01-23 10:06:07 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 10:06:12 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:06:18 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100bram[m]1(bramvdbnet@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flausrfxdvvarwxm)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100Vanilla[m](danielm14@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-awxjutosftkuncfl)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100freeman42x[m](freeman42x@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hbzkaijufkzzcjdd)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100kadoban(kadobanmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zsqqnlgeeerpazoa)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100fgaz(fgazmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qwcblseffshwekwg)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100hyiltiz-M(hyiltizkde@gateway/shell/kde/matrix/x-jljmxicmadzpzslm)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100benschza(~quassel@2604:1380:2000:cf00::1)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100oats(~hurr@durr/im/a/sheep)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100megaTherion(~therion@unix.io)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100benl23(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thfjynaiimpinank)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100PoliticsII______(sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnzqtdutccexjywp)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100simony(sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iftxdytnixkwmkyg)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100adius(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpilxswwqsdjkidt)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100lexi-lambda(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wazvuheyipjhlewf)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100\2E0KNO(~retlo@172.245.134.89)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100sis7(~user@2001:15e8:110:473e::1)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100zhulikas(~derp@213.239.204.108)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100rslima_____(sid26145@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bfeyyrmllgmhdyap)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100Putonlalla(~sapekiis@it-cyan.it.jyu.fi)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100ephemera_(~E@122.34.1.187)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100alinab(sid468903@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkffdhjrtekfjgxd)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100zgrep(~zgrep@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/sixth/zgrep)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100xsarnik0(xsarnik@gateway/shell/fi.muni.cz/x-wrudlzggfhmxxjno)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100SolarAquarion(SolarAquar@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-vaxxzctuxkewousu)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100TimWolla(~timwolla@2a01:4f8:150:6153:beef::6667)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100amatecha__(sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdqgbwrgwdnkyeme)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100nerdypepper(~nerdypepp@152.67.162.71)
2021-01-23 10:06:36 +0100nemesit|znc(~nemesit@2a01:488:66:1000:2ea3:4eeb:0:1)
2021-01-23 10:06:47 +0100badagga(~badagga@207.148.104.217)
2021-01-23 10:07:20 +0100nckx(~nckx@tobias.gr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:07:45 +0100nckx(~nckx@tobias.gr)
2021-01-23 10:07:53 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 10:09:57 +0100peterstorm[m](peterstorm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vpzdqokcgzyjmmpw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:57 +0100sawmon-and-natal(sawmon-and@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ysxfybhvxkakjlut) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:57 +0100dyniec[m](dyniecmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tiwglixjshsbtzzb) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:58 +0100michaelpj(michaelpjm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gcqvxzrbxtokolnm) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:58 +0100Hanma[m](hanmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-klgjunbutihycqpq) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:58 +0100metamod[m](metamodmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xjvmtpxarqrqmlzv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:58 +0100lambdaclan(lambdaclan@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-omrverlcipistniw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:58 +0100rednaZ[m](r3dnazmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-phvyuxujkxdmssod) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:09:59 +0100psydruid(psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eqeusxpozjpjzxii) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:09 +0100jamesfielder[m](jamesfield@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-giwxnfriekqwvubu) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:09 +0100floatingpoint[m](floating5@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jmpdhdvmyfjlkowe) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:09 +0100speakerspivakeem(speakerdea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zmbqrttruanzugny) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:09 +0100Wraul[m](wraulmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-yktupeqcyyfwftqo) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:09 +0100pythag76[m](pythag76ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sylxwgeccngwcgmf) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:10 +0100falling-edge[m](falling-ed@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xplkkdvtzbaptzcf) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100phittacus(bklmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uhmwlecsuevyvxpb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100meckse[m](mecksematr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kpigpdguvztgpjbd) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100jkaye[m](jkayematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-isbeegbsbbpbnfmq) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100tomferon[m](tomferonmo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aqhtwzvawdcbqrti) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100boistordu(boistordum@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zrepnvzmlishjtyo) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100Hatsue[m](berbermanm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-egznoeikiirwfbjl) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100maralorn(maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sjzyxxevmvmgzqvy) (Ping timeout: 243 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100gzc[m](gzcmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tcnuxspchwjgaxlq) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100hsiktas[m](hsiktasmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-epdwuwaxojaxjoot) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100sm[m](simonmicma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pxatdtkbaojkesek) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100sajith[m](sajithmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oljapipqytqjlijy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:12 +0100ThaEwat(thaewraptm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ffltfxkklmupuiab) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:15 +0100ManofLetters[m](manoflette@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uhjhgfadgvsydqxe) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:15 +0100sigmacool[m](sigmacoolm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mlxatbvadcvtvpox) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:15 +0100majjoha(majjohamat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qpthhdozhwfhxicl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:15 +0100pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ozoztrafhtubsnsp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:15 +0100doct0rhu[m](doct0rhumo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-poijrifulcxoniuv) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100bsima[m](bensimatim@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-huxmleloizjzuasn) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100siraben(sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rkgbhxveuguasbev) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100unclechu(unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lcyrdquzayeteuqf) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100psamim(samimpmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dcguiotzlrxgzihw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100SlackIntegration(slackbotma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-quioypzyysisrznl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:16 +0100berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tgbvvicopfhgokiy) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:22 +0100bram[m]1(bramvdbnet@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flausrfxdvvarwxm) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:22 +0100Vanilla[m](danielm14@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-awxjutosftkuncfl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:22 +0100freeman42x[m](freeman42x@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hbzkaijufkzzcjdd) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:22 +0100kadoban(kadobanmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zsqqnlgeeerpazoa) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:23 +0100fgaz(fgazmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qwcblseffshwekwg) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:27 +0100AmitLevy[m](amitmostly@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xygqbdsefnadeoao) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:27 +0100joshualit140[m](joshualit1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jwvbmfevhcetqtrt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:27 +0100pedrorubster[m](pedrorubst@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jnacjvwdwjespsqj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:27 +0100Lurkki[m]1(lurkkifene@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rezmhedzxwddlxkk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:27 +0100itai33[m](itai33matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gjvywfpzwkobmnwn) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:28 +0100Lurkki[m](lurkkipriv@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zgerzciunksqhuaz) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:28 +0100tomsen[m](tfbiomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bqfmmklmykwcrbpa) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:10:28 +0100plumenator[m](plumenator@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-glnwovhopottmhin) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-01-23 10:40:37 +0100Vanilla[m](danielm14@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gtyrnqydxkvlnqbu)
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2021-01-23 10:41:13 +0100rednaZ[m](r3dnazmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dgcohjwixtmxiiqo)
2021-01-23 10:41:19 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-23 10:42:01 +0100Hanma[m](hanmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dfaofxgbtcvxscrg)
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2021-01-23 10:43:11 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2021-01-23 10:44:29 +0100michaelpj(michaelpjm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fmgpstjgporswclf)
2021-01-23 10:44:34 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@57.174.9.109.rev.sfr.net)
2021-01-23 10:44:35 +0100psydruid(psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-reouxivcazxmyrca)
2021-01-23 10:44:42 +0100metamod[m](metamodmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fgganzgldsptclnl)
2021-01-23 10:44:45 +0100noop_noob(b816787b@184.22.120.123)
2021-01-23 10:44:45 +0100lambdaclan(lambdaclan@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rwdnzwwmmuljwecf)
2021-01-23 10:44:57 +0100doct0rhu[m](doct0rhumo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jzboidgshhegyflv)
2021-01-23 10:46:10 +0100lnxw37d4(lnxw37d4ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gltkermenikwfnct)
2021-01-23 10:46:25 +0100jtojnar(jtojnarmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tjlebcnlsztbxsun)
2021-01-23 10:46:33 +0100 <noop_noob> Why is "toList" not a minimal complete definition for Foldable?
2021-01-23 10:47:29 +0100clarity(~clarity@90.221.74.173)
2021-01-23 10:47:30 +0100pythag76[m](pythag76ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ewxerunntnmxcgcz)
2021-01-23 10:47:34 +0100 <noop_noob> And is there a type used in practice that's Foldable but not Traversible?
2021-01-23 10:48:03 +0100ManofLetters[m](manoflette@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-iiutcftvqxdygbra)
2021-01-23 10:48:04 +0100sigmacool[m](sigmacoolm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uyvrelcjazegtzgq)
2021-01-23 10:48:06 +0100itai33[m](itai33matr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-infukjewfdzsuybw)
2021-01-23 10:48:06 +0100AmitLevy[m](amitmostly@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rpgdykzfpazmaakd)
2021-01-23 10:48:06 +0100pedrorubster[m](pedrorubst@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tobxgcvixosnqosu)
2021-01-23 10:48:07 +0100tomsen[m](tfbiomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qtotfdyuiennsevc)
2021-01-23 10:48:07 +0100Lurkki[m](lurkkipriv@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-widhveigshypfwha)
2021-01-23 10:48:09 +0100jeffcasavant[m](jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dvlgwygdahjgodam)
2021-01-23 10:48:10 +0100plumenator[m](plumenator@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lkztmwcjkwxckrxj)
2021-01-23 10:48:11 +0100Lurkki[m]1(lurkkifene@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ojoniqvpfcweqvrd)
2021-01-23 10:48:11 +0100johnnyboy[m](gifumatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdmdgnincrgbntzg)
2021-01-23 10:48:18 +0100sawmon-and-natal(sawmon-and@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-grjaktendswjrjaz)
2021-01-23 10:48:18 +0100peterstorm[m](peterstorm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lefrjmiuarldzonr)
2021-01-23 10:48:28 +0100 <LKoen> maybe a Hadoop database could be Foldable but not Traversible?
2021-01-23 10:48:33 +0100speakerspivakeem(speakerdea@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-abyzagyusdplotau)
2021-01-23 10:48:33 +0100Wraul[m](wraulmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dorbltvpfxzzgesi)
2021-01-23 10:48:35 +0100joshualit140[m](joshualit1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rritpsbdxiiisnem)
2021-01-23 10:48:36 +0100majjoha(majjohamat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zgsodlcewtkbiabb)
2021-01-23 10:48:37 +0100falling-edge[m](falling-ed@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-klduoyvomvetnwiw)
2021-01-23 10:48:37 +0100bsima[m](bensimatim@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-csafdclbvvefyhgj)
2021-01-23 10:48:37 +0100floatingpoint[m](floating5@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-srjhgzxzheuoxfbn)
2021-01-23 10:48:38 +0100Noughtmare[m](naughtmare@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vowentkuowwoxqzn)
2021-01-23 10:48:43 +0100Poscat[m](poscatmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-laifcgrrlxwloyjs)
2021-01-23 10:49:01 +0100hsiktas[m](hsiktasmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jppjrvhmtgosajlp)
2021-01-23 10:49:10 +0100jamesfielder[m](jamesfield@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-osczspgtrjlwphjl)
2021-01-23 10:49:48 +0100 <noop_noob> LKoen: Sorry, but right now I kinda have no intuition at all of what Traversible means. Could you elaborate?
2021-01-23 10:50:52 +0100 <noop_noob> Why is "toList" not a minimal complete definition for Foldable?
2021-01-23 10:50:56 +0100 <noop_noob> And is there a type used in practice that's Foldable but not Traversible?
2021-01-23 10:51:26 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:52:47 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
2021-01-23 10:52:57 +0100 <maerwald> noop_noob: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.6.4.1/docs/Data-Set.html#t:Set
2021-01-23 10:53:17 +0100 <maerwald> https://stackoverflow.com/a/13730718
2021-01-23 10:55:13 +0100 <LKoen> noop_noob: I'm really not proficient enough in haskell to be the one answering your question
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2021-01-23 10:56:05 +0100 <noop_noob> maerwald Thanks. That makes sense.
2021-01-23 10:56:05 +0100Lurkki[m](lurkkipriv@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-widhveigshypfwha) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:06 +0100berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijpztoumlirgvyik) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:06 +0100boistordu(boistordum@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jesmckuseaanopgk) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:06 +0100tomferon[m](tomferonmo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cmcmodqlagpxaqqo) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2021-01-23 10:56:20 +0100 <noop_noob> Is there a practical thing that's a Functor and a Foldable, but not Traversible though?
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100joshualit140[m](joshualit1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rritpsbdxiiisnem) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100tomsen[m](tfbiomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qtotfdyuiennsevc) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100pythag76[m](pythag76ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ewxerunntnmxcgcz) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100dyniec[m](dyniecmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ahgokqngiuvldzgs) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100freeman42x[m](freeman42x@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-grvqlumqmlxadygg) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:21 +0100gzc[m](gzcmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-koxmlejdcpxlluik) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:22 +0100plumenator[m](plumenator@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lkztmwcjkwxckrxj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:23 +0100johnnyboy[m](gifumatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mdmdgnincrgbntzg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-01-23 10:56:26 +0100lnxw37d4(lnxw37d4ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gltkermenikwfnct) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:26 +0100domenkozar[m](domenkozar@NixOS/user/domenkozar) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:56:26 +0100VarikValefor[m](varikvalef@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mfsllnjwzfkcupwp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2021-01-23 10:56:29 +0100rednaZ[m](r3dnazmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dgcohjwixtmxiiqo) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:57:35 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 10:57:58 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-49-237-20-254.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-23 10:58:15 +0100 <noop_noob> why are so many people joining then leaving lol
2021-01-23 10:58:26 +0100 <maerwald> maybe something that is an unlawful instance
2021-01-23 11:02:42 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 11:03:35 +0100bogdanp(~bogdanp@188.24.80.165)
2021-01-23 11:05:07 +0100hekkaidekapus[(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
2021-01-23 11:06:00 +0100 <hc> it's just that unstable matrix bridge
2021-01-23 11:06:44 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:07:04 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 11:08:18 +0100kaiwkx(~user@116.236.159.130)
2021-01-23 11:08:21 +0100hekkaidekapus}(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:08:41 +0100 <noop_noob> I tried googling and found this example of a type that's foldable, a functor, but not traversible https://stackoverflow.com/a/12896512/1035985
2021-01-23 11:08:52 +0100 <noop_noob> data Store f a b = Store (f a) (a -> b)
2021-01-23 11:09:01 +0100 <noop_noob> I'm trying to figure it out...
2021-01-23 11:09:46 +0100sveit(~sveit@2001:19f0:ac01:247:5400:ff:fe5c:689f) (Quit: Bye)
2021-01-23 11:10:01 +0100sveit(~sveit@2001:19f0:ac01:247:5400:ff:fe5c:689f)
2021-01-23 11:10:39 +0100 <noop_noob> I'm confused lol
2021-01-23 11:10:54 +0100geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:11:23 +0100kaiwkx(~user@116.236.159.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 11:12:23 +0100hnOsmium0001(uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dezhbwagilkvzynb) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-01-23 11:14:14 +0100 <shachaf> Calling that "Store" is pretty odd if you ask me.
2021-01-23 11:14:15 +0100 <noop_noob> Can somebody explain why it can't be an Applicative for me? Reading the link confuses me.
2021-01-23 11:15:02 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:15:05 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 11:15:16 +0100son0p(~son0p@181.58.39.182)
2021-01-23 11:15:20 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf, I can't come up with a better name lol
2021-01-23 11:15:50 +0100 <noop_noob> Someone in the comment suggested "Coyoneda"...
2021-01-23 11:15:52 +0100 <shachaf> This is like Coyoneda without the existential.
2021-01-23 11:16:01 +0100 <shachaf> Ah, right.
2021-01-23 11:16:06 +0100 <noop_noob> I have no idea what a coyodena is
2021-01-23 11:16:09 +0100 <noop_noob> lol
2021-01-23 11:16:11 +0100 <shachaf> Well, not important.
2021-01-23 11:16:20 +0100 <noop_noob> sounds like a cross between a coyote and yoda
2021-01-23 11:16:54 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 11:18:24 +0100 <noop_noob> So... let's call it a FoldableWrapper
2021-01-23 11:18:43 +0100 <noop_noob> data FoldableWrapper f a b = FoldableWrapper (f a) (a->b)
2021-01-23 11:19:02 +0100 <noop_noob> instance Functor (FoldableWrapper f a) where ...
2021-01-23 11:19:14 +0100 <shachaf> Well, whatever, real Coyoneda would be an even better example.
2021-01-23 11:19:38 +0100 <noop_noob> instance (Foldable f) => Foldable (FoldableWrapper f a)
2021-01-23 11:19:50 +0100 <noop_noob> I'm trying to figure out why this can't be Transversible.
2021-01-23 11:19:54 +0100 <shachaf> The main problem is that Foldable doesn't have any clear laws, is the real issue.
2021-01-23 11:20:17 +0100 <shachaf> For example, for any T, instance Foldable T where foldMap _ _ = mempty is a valid instance.
2021-01-23 11:20:22 +0100 <noop_noob> I find it odd that I can't define a Foldable instance by just implementing toList. Is there a reason?
2021-01-23 11:20:46 +0100Noughtmare[m](naughtmare@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nafwkykzttetzvfv)
2021-01-23 11:21:25 +0100 <shachaf> Hmm, not exactly, I think toList would work.
2021-01-23 11:21:34 +0100 <shachaf> It has some problems but foldr has the same problems.
2021-01-23 11:22:14 +0100 <noop_noob> Strange.
2021-01-23 11:22:24 +0100 <shachaf> Anyway, if you want to look at this type, the point of it is that it just stores this conversion function.
2021-01-23 11:22:31 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
2021-01-23 11:22:36 +0100 <noop_noob> Thinking of Foldable as " a thing with toList" makes a lot of sense to me than anything else.
2021-01-23 11:22:41 +0100 <noop_noob> Yes, I understand the type.
2021-01-23 11:22:48 +0100 <shachaf> Let's make it more concrete: data WeirdList a = forall x. WeirdList [x] (x -> a)
2021-01-23 11:22:57 +0100 <noop_noob> Ok.
2021-01-23 11:23:07 +0100 <noop_noob> Seems like a weird list indeed
2021-01-23 11:23:17 +0100 <shachaf> That means: A WeirdList stores a list of things of some secret type, and a conversion function to a known type.
2021-01-23 11:23:25 +0100 <noop_noob> Yup. I understand that.
2021-01-23 11:23:48 +0100 <noop_noob> I think the part that confuses me is a class method (is that the right terminology?) that requires a type parameter to be a Functor.
2021-01-23 11:23:57 +0100 <noop_noob> That's one layer of abstraction to thick for my brain lol
2021-01-23 11:24:06 +0100 <shachaf> So you can map over it, by just composing onto that function. And you can fold it, by folding over the list and then applying the function.
2021-01-23 11:24:33 +0100 <noop_noob> Yup.
2021-01-23 11:24:42 +0100 <shachaf> Note that, as I mentioned above, there's no law that says that's how you have to fold over it. For example "toList _ = []" would also be a valid instance.
2021-01-23 11:24:49 +0100 <noop_noob> Yes.
2021-01-23 11:25:04 +0100 <noop_noob> So... .what does being Traversible require?
2021-01-23 11:25:33 +0100 <noop_noob> Traversible T requires.... traverse :: Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
2021-01-23 11:25:43 +0100 <noop_noob> I don't understand this type signature -_-
2021-01-23 11:25:54 +0100 <shachaf> But you can't make a Traversable instance for this, because that would require you to be able to... One thing you can say is that you can fold it, get a list of bs, do whatever you want with them, and then put them back.
2021-01-23 11:26:03 +0100 <shachaf> Oh, is this just about understanding Traversable?
2021-01-23 11:26:09 +0100 <shachaf> Then you definitely shouldn't start with this weird example.
2021-01-23 11:26:24 +0100 <shachaf> Traversable is easy.
2021-01-23 11:26:27 +0100 <shachaf> Do you know mapM?
2021-01-23 11:26:36 +0100 <noop_noob> *opens hoogle*
2021-01-23 11:26:54 +0100 <noop_noob> This version? Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b]
2021-01-23 11:27:00 +0100 <shachaf> Sure.
2021-01-23 11:27:25 +0100 <noop_noob> That's like, fmap followed by folding with (>>), right?
2021-01-23 11:27:42 +0100 <noop_noob> Wait, no.
2021-01-23 11:27:45 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
2021-01-23 11:28:19 +0100 <shachaf> Ah, you should figure this kind of thing out concretely first. Then Traversable is pretty much the same thing as mapM.
2021-01-23 11:29:19 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf, is this just basically the "procedural for-each loop"?
2021-01-23 11:29:32 +0100ixaxaar(~ixaxaar@49.207.210.215) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:29:32 +0100 <shachaf> Yep.
2021-01-23 11:29:41 +0100 <shachaf> It maps over the thing, and has a side effect for each thing.
2021-01-23 11:29:58 +0100ADG1089__(~aditya@122.163.160.223)
2021-01-23 11:30:04 +0100 <shachaf> And then it collects all the results in one big list with one big side effect.
2021-01-23 11:30:32 +0100 <noop_noob> The thing is, my intuition for this is that "Oh. A Traversible is just a Foldable Functor"
2021-01-23 11:30:48 +0100 <noop_noob> You fmap, then you fold.
2021-01-23 11:30:49 +0100 <noop_noob> Kinda.
2021-01-23 11:31:08 +0100 <noop_noob> I think I know the issue.
2021-01-23 11:31:25 +0100 <noop_noob> Traversible's mapM has a signature:   (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b)
2021-01-23 11:31:51 +0100 <noop_noob> My intuitive generalization of list's mapM has the signature: (Traversable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m [b]
2021-01-23 11:32:04 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:32:09 +0100 <noop_noob> And I can't figure out how to change my intuition to make mapM have the right signature.
2021-01-23 11:32:19 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf, Does that make any sense?
2021-01-23 11:32:37 +0100 <shachaf> Hmm, it just looks like fmap to me.
2021-01-23 11:32:47 +0100 <shachaf> fmap :: (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
2021-01-23 11:32:51 +0100 <noop_noob> It's toList followed by fmap lol
2021-01-23 11:32:54 +0100 <shachaf> traverse :: (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
2021-01-23 11:33:04 +0100 <shachaf> This is just fmap with some extra "f"s to indicate side effects.
2021-01-23 11:33:44 +0100 <noop_noob> So... I can implement (Foldable t, Functor t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m [b]
2021-01-23 11:34:00 +0100 <noop_noob> But I can't convert m [b] back to m (t b)
2021-01-23 11:34:29 +0100 <noop_noob> and uhhhh confused...
2021-01-23 11:34:30 +0100 <noop_noob> lol
2021-01-23 11:35:13 +0100 <shachaf> Sure, that sounds right. You can just mapM over the list to get that.
2021-01-23 11:35:19 +0100sgibber2018(d055ed90@208.85.237.144) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-01-23 11:35:34 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf It seems to me that the key of Traversible is something to get `m (t b)` instead of `m [b]`?
2021-01-23 11:35:36 +0100 <shachaf> But I'd say maybe forget about Foldable for a bit, because Traversable is more important.
2021-01-23 11:35:40 +0100 <shachaf> And forget about lists.
2021-01-23 11:35:54 +0100 <shachaf> Traversable instances are much more constrained than Foldable instances.
2021-01-23 11:36:03 +0100 <noop_noob> My main intuition for Foldable is that it's a thing that can toList.
2021-01-23 11:36:24 +0100DavidEichmann(~david@234.109.45.217.dyn.plus.net)
2021-01-23 11:36:39 +0100 <noop_noob> And I have no idea how to start thinking of Traversible without using Foldable as the basis.
2021-01-23 11:37:34 +0100 <noop_noob> Note: My intuition for lists is that it corresponds to Iterators in other languages lol
2021-01-23 11:37:57 +0100yahb(xsbot@haskell/bot/yahb) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:37:58 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf, am i doing something wrong >_<
2021-01-23 11:38:25 +0100 <shachaf> I suggest forgetting about Foldable for a bit.
2021-01-23 11:38:40 +0100 <noop_noob> Okayyy...
2021-01-23 11:38:41 +0100 <noop_noob> And?
2021-01-23 11:38:43 +0100 <shachaf> Does mapM make sense?
2021-01-23 11:38:48 +0100 <noop_noob> Yes for lists.
2021-01-23 11:38:54 +0100 <shachaf> OK, but for other things.
2021-01-23 11:39:08 +0100 <noop_noob> uhhh
2021-01-23 11:39:22 +0100 <noop_noob> No..
2021-01-23 11:39:26 +0100 <shachaf> Say for trees.
2021-01-23 11:39:35 +0100 <shachaf> Pick some type that isn't a list, and figure out what mapM would mean for it.
2021-01-23 11:40:21 +0100 <noop_noob> Oh. That kinda makes sense.
2021-01-23 11:40:34 +0100mniip(~mniip@freenode/staff/mniip) (Ping timeout: 606 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:40:57 +0100 <shachaf> Also I should really be saying traverse instead of mapM.
2021-01-23 11:41:12 +0100 <shachaf> Do you know how Applicative works? I don't know where you're starting here.
2021-01-23 11:41:25 +0100 <noop_noob> I kinda have an idea of how applicative works.
2021-01-23 11:41:31 +0100 <noop_noob> But not so solid intuition.
2021-01-23 11:41:50 +0100 <noop_noob> Traversible are for data structures, right?
2021-01-23 11:41:58 +0100 <noop_noob> Not like Monad, where stuff like State are monads.
2021-01-23 11:42:28 +0100 <Rembane> Isn't State a data structure?
2021-01-23 11:42:39 +0100 <shachaf> Sure, that sounds right.
2021-01-23 11:42:45 +0100 <noop_noob> what
2021-01-23 11:43:07 +0100 <noop_noob> I mean... you can store functions in variables, yes.
2021-01-23 11:43:14 +0100Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwrpmhfrxccscdss)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100berberman[T](berberma4@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wboyhejwnhmrrzsk)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100Lurkki[m](lurkkipriv@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sisndylvdaopfdec)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100immae(immaematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dkrlbqbvjibkkbju)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100hsiktas[m](hsiktasmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wieotahuivyfales)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100falling-edge[m](falling-ed@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wwccpmkdjdbnhgdw)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100cnmne[m](cnmnematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qvxmprftwpuespcw)
2021-01-23 11:43:17 +0100psydruid(psydruidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fxgmtntgcwdkuqcz)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100alvinsj[m](alvinsjmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-enkqzdniyvtgfppk)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100michaelpj(michaelpjm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nwhnsnsuwqaixwkn)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100dyniec[m](dyniecmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pleykzjzkzayglon)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100rab24ack[m](rab24ackma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wcltiphggarhrfns)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100srid(sridmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-inhuutdnxqdpopdo)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100ThaEwat(thaewraptm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gbznnmkcjmqvxbxy)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100jesser[m](jessermatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-srqnhhbvqfdsyemz)
2021-01-23 11:43:18 +0100maralorn(maralornma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ccwyimxyipipxott)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100domenkozar[m](domenkozar@NixOS/user/domenkozar)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100siraben(sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vshhzbemomocaeeu)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100lambdaclan(lambdaclan@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tjjalgckilcqtkmd)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100noIOBeforeBedtim(dissatisfi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lnslivqcvcehdsfj)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100majjoha(majjohamat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-srqhkxdgmxngopen)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100bitonic(bitonicmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-izldntyefnqmmayg)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100Hatsue[m](berbermanm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ectisystfrreelxj)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100sajith[m](sajithmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tzagtgtauouklmud)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100doct0rhu[m](doct0rhumo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qgqckihwphobyqnp)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100tomsen[m](tfbiomatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-luejkvdbwddoecid)
2021-01-23 11:43:19 +0100lnxw37d4(lnxw37d4ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ayuqsvefripndnee)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100sm[m](simonmicma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cruwxmqhnqtnfubj)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100svc0[m](svc0matrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-askcybmyzohsngft)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100Poscat[m](poscatmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wkwjcgotvlsdgkxc)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100jeffcasavant[m](jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-clfilslbehuictox)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100jtojnar(jtojnarmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vyzjwthzutoaikeu)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100shutendoji[m](shutendoji@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nrvdlftgadvhjfvm)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100Ericson2314(ericson231@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qqjbagbwnixhuagj)
2021-01-23 11:43:20 +0100plumenator[m](plumenator@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wddgljrrirfsqanf)
2021-01-23 11:43:21 +0100pqwy[m](pqwymatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-lzlhtwhlfzajbeaz)
2021-01-23 11:43:21 +0100fgaz(fgazmatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-erioxuklbyevzyfa)
2021-01-23 11:43:21 +0100gzc[m](gzcmatrixo@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-aaxylewkawpexjut)
2021-01-23 11:43:21 +0100unclechu(unclechuma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-omzmjwbzkozodzzi)
2021-01-23 11:43:21 +0100johnnyboy[m](gifumatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ppaxyyarqdmborcj)
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2021-01-23 11:43:32 +0100 <shachaf> Ugh, Matrix is the worst.
2021-01-23 11:43:34 +0100 <noop_noob> yay! network issues!
2021-01-23 11:43:47 +0100 <shachaf> noop_noob: OK, here's one thing you can think conceptually:
2021-01-23 11:43:50 +0100 <Rembane> Wow
2021-01-23 11:43:53 +0100bogdanp(~bogdanp@188.24.80.165) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:44:03 +0100 <shachaf> Traversable is like Foldable, except you can put a list back.
2021-01-23 11:44:17 +0100 <shachaf> But it has to be of the same length as the one toList gave you.
2021-01-23 11:44:26 +0100 <shachaf> Which is hard to express directly in Haskell's type system.
2021-01-23 11:44:48 +0100 <shachaf> But it's sort of like this: t a -> ([a], [b] -> t b)
2021-01-23 11:44:57 +0100 <shachaf> Where the [b] list has to be the same length as the [a] list.
2021-01-23 11:45:10 +0100 <noop_noob> Oh
2021-01-23 11:45:23 +0100 <noop_noob> That makes sense.
2021-01-23 11:45:26 +0100 <shachaf> And it replaces every a in the data structure with the b in the same position.
2021-01-23 11:45:49 +0100 <noop_noob> And the typing is weird because haskell doesn't have dependent types
2021-01-23 11:46:10 +0100 <shachaf> Something like that, but also the scheme that Haskell uses is nicer for other reasons.
2021-01-23 11:46:57 +0100 <Rembane> You could instead of representing it on type level add a test in QuickCheck that checks that the length is maintained.
2021-01-23 11:47:26 +0100 <noop_noob> That explains the difficulty I had that I had to convert `m [b]` to `m (t b)`
2021-01-23 11:48:35 +0100 <noop_noob> So... assuming I had this weird `t a -> ([a], [b] -> t b)` function, and the type system works, I can implement `traverse` ?
2021-01-23 11:48:44 +0100howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umwabsvemdunxurx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-01-23 11:48:52 +0100 <shachaf> Yes, and vice versa.
2021-01-23 11:49:05 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-01-23 11:49:08 +0100 <noop_noob> I feel like sequence is gonna make more sense to me
2021-01-23 11:49:11 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 11:49:16 +0100 <noop_noob> sequenceA :: Applicative f => t (f a) -> f (t a)
2021-01-23 11:49:32 +0100 <shachaf> Hmm, I doubt it, I think traverse is probably easier to understand.
2021-01-23 11:49:37 +0100 <shachaf> But they're pretty much equivalent.
2021-01-23 11:49:58 +0100 <noop_noob> When I understood monads, thinking in terms of joins helped me a lot lol
2021-01-23 11:50:11 +0100 <Rembane> IIRC, traverse == sequence . map
2021-01-23 11:51:36 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-95-235-155-82.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2021-01-23 11:51:36 +0100 <siraben> `x >>= f = join (fmap f x)` hehe
2021-01-23 11:51:53 +0100 <siraben> join illustrates the monoidial nature of monads better
2021-01-23 11:52:07 +0100Alleria(~textual@mskresolve-a.mskcc.org)
2021-01-23 11:52:15 +0100 <noop_noob> I understood monads via >=> and joins lol
2021-01-23 11:52:30 +0100AlleriaGuest35219
2021-01-23 11:52:30 +0100 <noop_noob> I convert `t (f a)` to `[f a], forall b. [b] (with same length) -> t b`
2021-01-23 11:52:32 +0100 <noop_noob> and uhhhh
2021-01-23 11:52:56 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
2021-01-23 11:53:27 +0100 <noop_noob> then I turn `[f a]` into `f [a]` by doing some sort of fold.
2021-01-23 11:53:57 +0100Jackk_Doe(~jackk@205.178.111.134)
2021-01-23 11:54:04 +0100 <noop_noob> Then fmap over the weird length-restricted function to get back to `f (t b)` ?
2021-01-23 11:54:23 +0100 <noop_noob> shachaf, I think it kinda makes sense. Lemme process it.
2021-01-23 11:54:25 +0100 <noop_noob> Thx
2021-01-23 11:55:39 +0100 <noop_noob> (btw, I found >>= to be the most confusing operator to understand monads from lol)
2021-01-23 11:55:39 +0100bogdanp(~bogdanp@188.24.80.165)
2021-01-23 11:55:46 +0100 <shachaf> You turn [f a] into f [a] with sequence.
2021-01-23 11:55:56 +0100 <siraben> noop_noob: it's not any different from .then() for promises, right?
2021-01-23 11:55:57 +0100 <noop_noob> of course there's a function for that
2021-01-23 11:56:08 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 11:56:11 +0100 <shachaf> It's not just any function, it's the function you mentioned 7 minutes ago.
2021-01-23 11:56:17 +0100 <noop_noob> *facepalm*
2021-01-23 11:56:19 +0100 <siraben> :t sequence
2021-01-23 11:56:21 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Monad m) => t (m a) -> m (t a)
2021-01-23 11:57:11 +0100 <ephemient> promise.then isn't exactly >>=;returning a value and returning a promise doing slightly different things in JS. but similar idea
2021-01-23 11:57:17 +0100 <noop_noob> siraben, I could make sense of >>= in specific contexts, but for some reason it's a headache trying to see that the types check out in different contexts lol
2021-01-23 11:57:29 +0100 <siraben> mmhm
2021-01-23 11:57:31 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 11:57:33 +0100 <noop_noob> *to see that the types are the same
2021-01-23 11:57:38 +0100 <noop_noob> idk my brain seems to work weird
2021-01-23 11:58:04 +0100 <noop_noob> Like, adding a function in the type signature spills the cache in my head or something lol
2021-01-23 11:59:50 +0100 <noop_noob> When I see `m a`, I often mentally replace it with `() -> m a`. Helps keep me sane lol
2021-01-23 12:00:12 +0100 <noop_noob> Wait, then is there an applicative that's not a monad?
2021-01-23 12:00:38 +0100 <c_wraith> of course. otherwise they wouldn't be different
2021-01-23 12:00:55 +0100 <noop_noob> My intution for applicatives is identical to my intuition for monads lol
2021-01-23 12:00:56 +0100 <noop_noob> -_-
2021-01-23 12:01:21 +0100 <ephemient> applicative lacks join/bind (whichever you prefer to reason about monads with)
2021-01-23 12:01:28 +0100 <noop_noob> You can't just convert between `a -> m b` and `m (a -> b)`, right?
2021-01-23 12:01:46 +0100MidAutumnHotaru2(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru)
2021-01-23 12:03:16 +0100MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 12:03:46 +0100MidAutumnHotaru2(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 12:04:02 +0100 <ephemient> I don't think () -> m a is very helpful in general
2021-01-23 12:04:04 +0100 <noop_noob> `>=>` :: (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> (a -> m c)
2021-01-23 12:04:05 +0100 <noop_noob> (liftA2 (flip (.))) :: (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f (b -> c) -> f (a -> c)
2021-01-23 12:04:11 +0100MidAutumnHotaru(~MidAutumn@unaffiliated/midautumnhotaru)
2021-01-23 12:04:11 +0100 <noop_noob> I'm confused.
2021-01-23 12:04:32 +0100 <ephemient> IO a is a description of an IO action producing a; adding () -> in front doesn't change that
2021-01-23 12:04:58 +0100 <maerwald> in applicative, the effects can't branch
2021-01-23 12:05:02 +0100 <noop_noob> ephemient, I know it doesn't matter. But pretending the "()->" is there helps me somehow.
2021-01-23 12:05:27 +0100 <maerwald> in monad, effects can branch unpredictably (depending on the value)
2021-01-23 12:05:38 +0100 <noop_noob> In applicatives, "f (a->b)" are monoid-ish.
2021-01-23 12:05:48 +0100 <noop_noob> In monads, "a -> f b" are monoid-ish.
2021-01-23 12:05:55 +0100 <maerwald> In Selective, effects can branch, but only predictevely
2021-01-23 12:06:05 +0100 <noop_noob> Selective?
2021-01-23 12:06:32 +0100 <maerwald> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective
2021-01-23 12:06:45 +0100sword865(uid208942@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvnhfmtqinetxtec) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2021-01-23 12:07:11 +0100 <noop_noob> select :: f (Either a b) -> f (a -> b) -> f b
2021-01-23 12:07:11 +0100 <noop_noob> The heck?
2021-01-23 12:07:12 +0100 <maerwald> (<*?) :: Selective f => f (Either a b) -> f (a -> b) -> f b
2021-01-23 12:07:43 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2021-01-23 12:07:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-23 12:07:48 +0100 <noop_noob> Oh wait.
2021-01-23 12:08:01 +0100 <noop_noob> It makes sense if I think of it in terms of [a->b] vs a->[b] lol
2021-01-23 12:08:01 +0100 <noop_noob> nvm
2021-01-23 12:08:02 +0100 <maerwald> "Think of select as a selective function application99,99: you must apply99,99 the function of type a -> b when given a value of type Left a, but you may skip99,99 the function and associated effects, and simply return b when given Right b."
2021-01-23 12:08:48 +0100 <maerwald> also see https://neilmitchell.blogspot.com/2019/10/monads-as-graphs.html?m=1
2021-01-23 12:08:48 +0100 <shachaf> I don't know what any of this select business has to do with it.
2021-01-23 12:08:58 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Don't know if anyone mentioned it while I was disconnected, but there's a simpler example of "Foldable, but not Traversable", Set
2021-01-23 12:09:01 +0100 <shachaf> I would not focus on it right now.
2021-01-23 12:09:13 +0100 <merijn> oh wait, I guess not, since Foldable requires Functor
2021-01-23 12:09:31 +0100 <noop_noob> merijn, Already mentioned. Foldable doesn't required Functor.
2021-01-23 12:09:35 +0100 <merijn> oh, no Traversable require Functor
2021-01-23 12:09:48 +0100 <noop_noob> My natural next question was whether there's a non-traversable foldable functor
2021-01-23 12:10:02 +0100 <maerwald> merijn: Set was discussed an hour ago
2021-01-23 12:10:15 +0100 <shachaf> "(Double ->)" is also Foldable and Functor but not Traversable, or something.
2021-01-23 12:10:23 +0100 <shachaf> Everything is Foldable.
2021-01-23 12:10:25 +0100 <merijn> maerwald: I lost connection a few minutes after the question :p
2021-01-23 12:10:37 +0100 <shachaf> Logs are in the topic.
2021-01-23 12:10:39 +0100 <noop_noob> wait, why is (Double->) foldable
2021-01-23 12:10:50 +0100 <c_wraith> shachaf: I don't think ((->) Double) is foldable
2021-01-23 12:10:59 +0100 <shachaf> Because instance Foldable (Double ->) where foldMap _ _ = mempty
2021-01-23 12:11:05 +0100 <noop_noob> -_-
2021-01-23 12:11:10 +0100 <shachaf> "Foldable" doesn't really mean much, is the point.
2021-01-23 12:11:15 +0100 <maerwald> shachaf: Selective has to do a lot with intuition about applicative, monad etc
2021-01-23 12:11:19 +0100 <noop_noob> fine lol
2021-01-23 12:11:45 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Foldable isn't a particularly elegant abstraction, tbh :p
2021-01-23 12:12:08 +0100 <shachaf> I like Foldable. It has a nice analogy to Traversable. But I wouldn't look to it for meaning.
2021-01-23 12:12:13 +0100 <noop_noob> Foldable is just other language's Iterable, right?
2021-01-23 12:12:14 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Anything that correspond to "a set of values that can be smashed together" is foldable, which is basically everything :p
2021-01-23 12:12:34 +0100 <noop_noob> List = iterator
2021-01-23 12:12:34 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: shachaf is right that Foldable is best thought of in relation to Traversable
2021-01-23 12:12:37 +0100 <noop_noob> Foldable = iterable
2021-01-23 12:13:13 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 12:13:26 +0100 <merijn> Traversable is "structure preserving effectful map", Foldable is "traversable, but instead of preserving structure we smoosh all values together"
2021-01-23 12:13:50 +0100 <noop_noob> Oh.
2021-01-23 12:14:19 +0100 <noop_noob> That makes a lot of sense.
2021-01-23 12:14:37 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2021-01-23 12:14:37 +0100 <ephemient> not a perfect analogy... with "iterator" you might expect to be able to early terminate, but fold doesn't
2021-01-23 12:14:43 +0100 <noop_noob> Traversible corresponds to (in a procedural language) a thing that supports "for each" loops that modify the elements?
2021-01-23 12:14:53 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Roughly, yeah
2021-01-23 12:14:59 +0100 <merijn> :t traverse
2021-01-23 12:15:00 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
2021-01-23 12:15:11 +0100 <noop_noob> ephemient Why can't I "early terminate" a fold if I just make the function ignore an argument?
2021-01-23 12:15:25 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: You can :p
2021-01-23 12:15:48 +0100 <merijn> > foldr const 0 [1..10]
2021-01-23 12:15:50 +0100 <lambdabot> 1
2021-01-23 12:15:54 +0100 <merijn> boom
2021-01-23 12:16:08 +0100 <c_wraith> Though you do need to know what direction the data structure associates so that you can match your applicative to it
2021-01-23 12:16:34 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysaunnzoa6io6u4x.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 12:16:49 +0100 <c_wraith> or monoid, I suppose, for Foldable
2021-01-23 12:17:31 +0100 <maerwald> const is lazy in it's second argument, so this truly "terminates" early
2021-01-23 12:18:03 +0100 <noop_noob> > foldr const 0 [1,2,3..]
2021-01-23 12:18:05 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:21: error: <hint>:1:21: error: parse error on input ‘..’
2021-01-23 12:18:20 +0100 <noop_noob> > foldr const 0 [1,2,3...]
2021-01-23 12:18:22 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2021-01-23 12:18:22 +0100 <lambdabot> A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: (3 ...)
2021-01-23 12:18:34 +0100 <c_wraith> you can't provide 3 values before ..
2021-01-23 12:18:34 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: You can only have 1 argument
2021-01-23 12:18:39 +0100 <noop_noob> oof
2021-01-23 12:18:40 +0100 <noop_noob> lol
2021-01-23 12:18:41 +0100 <ephemient> 1 or 2
2021-01-23 12:18:48 +0100 <shachaf> The "real" thing that Foldable is defined in terms of is foldMap, not foldr. It's more flexible, since foldr is for right-biased things specifically.
2021-01-23 12:18:51 +0100 <noop_noob> > foldr const 0 [1,2..]
2021-01-23 12:18:53 +0100 <lambdabot> 1
2021-01-23 12:19:00 +0100 <noop_noob> laziness for the win
2021-01-23 12:19:13 +0100 <noop_noob> foldMap?
2021-01-23 12:19:14 +0100 <ephemient> > foldMap (const ()) [0..]
2021-01-23 12:19:15 +0100 <lambdabot> ()
2021-01-23 12:19:21 +0100 <merijn> :t foldMap
2021-01-23 12:19:22 +0100 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m
2021-01-23 12:19:40 +0100 <noop_noob> *looks up the monoid functions*
2021-01-23 12:20:01 +0100 <noop_noob> It uses mconcat in most implementations, I assume?
2021-01-23 12:20:03 +0100 <c_wraith> as I said... to short circuit, the monoid must short circuit in the same direction as the data structure being folded puts stuff together
2021-01-23 12:20:10 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: the list syntax is sugar for one of the enum methods: [x..] = enumFrom, [x..y] = enumFromTo, [x,y..] = enumFromThen, [x,y..z] = enumFromThenTo
2021-01-23 12:20:12 +0100 <noop_noob> Got it.
2021-01-23 12:20:28 +0100 <noop_noob> Thanks
2021-01-23 12:20:53 +0100Saukk(~Saukk@83-148-239-3.dynamic.lounea.fi)
2021-01-23 12:22:47 +0100 <noop_noob> I assume there's a library somewhere that provides a list where the Foldable implementation is reversed?
2021-01-23 12:23:13 +0100 <merijn> no
2021-01-23 12:23:34 +0100 <noop_noob> Then there's a library somewhere that makes it easy for me to build this?
2021-01-23 12:23:35 +0100 <noop_noob> lol
2021-01-23 12:23:41 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: "reverse" ? :p
2021-01-23 12:23:46 +0100 <c_wraith> there are lots of libraries that provide snoc lists
2021-01-23 12:23:55 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: tbh, once you need to reverse a list you're kinda hosed anyway
2021-01-23 12:23:56 +0100 <noop_noob> reverse doesn't work for infinite lists
2021-01-23 12:24:05 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Yes it does :p
2021-01-23 12:24:09 +0100 <noop_noob> wut
2021-01-23 12:24:12 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 12:24:32 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Infinite lists don't have and end for you to start at :p
2021-01-23 12:24:41 +0100 <noop_noob> ....
2021-01-23 12:24:43 +0100 <noop_noob> fine
2021-01-23 12:24:46 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: So "reversing an infinite list" is an inherently nonsensical operation
2021-01-23 12:24:47 +0100 <noop_noob> it works by not working, sure
2021-01-23 12:25:19 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Can you describe what "working" would even look like? :)
2021-01-23 12:25:32 +0100 <merijn> Even if we have a deterministic sequence, like:
2021-01-23 12:25:37 +0100 <merijn> > iterate (+1) 1
2021-01-23 12:25:39 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,...
2021-01-23 12:25:52 +0100 <merijn> Trivial to reverse, given a starting point
2021-01-23 12:26:02 +0100 <merijn> But how would you even define the "end" to start at?
2021-01-23 12:26:20 +0100 <noop_noob> merijn, I was thinking about making a list that implements foldMap in a way that it reverses the monoid argument order.
2021-01-23 12:26:27 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Oh *that* is easy
2021-01-23 12:26:31 +0100 <merijn> :t Dual
2021-01-23 12:26:32 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> Dual a
2021-01-23 12:26:43 +0100 <merijn> > [1..5] <> [6..10]
2021-01-23 12:26:45 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
2021-01-23 12:26:47 +0100 <noop_noob> Of course lol
2021-01-23 12:26:51 +0100 <merijn> > Dual [1..5] <> Dual [6..10]
2021-01-23 12:26:53 +0100 <lambdabot> Dual {getDual = [6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5]}
2021-01-23 12:27:18 +0100 <noop_noob> That's what I meant when I said "Then there's a library somewhere that makes it easy for me to build this?"
2021-01-23 12:27:19 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: You can "reverse" "foldMap f" trivially by doing "getDual . foldMap (Dual . f)" :)
2021-01-23 12:27:30 +0100 <noop_noob> -_-
2021-01-23 12:27:44 +0100 <merijn> > foldMap (:[]) [1..5]
2021-01-23 12:27:46 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5]
2021-01-23 12:27:55 +0100 <merijn> > getDual $ foldMap (Dual . (:[])) [1..5]
2021-01-23 12:27:56 +0100 <lambdabot> [5,4,3,2,1]
2021-01-23 12:28:27 +0100 <shachaf> You can reverse this kind of infinite list: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fmlist-0.9.4/docs/Data-FMList.html
2021-01-23 12:28:35 +0100 <merijn> "instance Monoid m => Monoid (Dual m) where mappend x y = mappend y x" :)
2021-01-23 12:28:36 +0100 <shachaf> The kind that's based on Foldable.
2021-01-23 12:29:30 +0100 <noop_noob> what the fuck lol
2021-01-23 12:29:58 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: If something is a monoid then "doing the same but opposite order" is *also* a monoid
2021-01-23 12:30:06 +0100 <noop_noob> It's.... a list that has a start, an end, but no middle?
2021-01-23 12:30:08 +0100 <noop_noob> lol
2021-01-23 12:30:23 +0100 <__monty__> > iterate (subtract 1) (1 / 0) -- The reverse of [1..] : )
2021-01-23 12:30:25 +0100 <lambdabot> [Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Infinity,Inf...
2021-01-23 12:30:40 +0100 <merijn> noop_noob: Usually called the "Dual" in math speak, and the Dual newtype basically implements it for you by inverting the mappend for you
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2021-01-23 12:38:37 +0100hackagedep-t 0.1.3.0 - Reader-like monad transformer for dependency injection. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dep-t-0.1.3.0 (DanielDiazCarrete)
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2021-01-23 14:03:02 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> are there symbolic haskell evaluators (for educational/debugging purposes)?
2021-01-23 14:03:18 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> I mean I'd like to see how an expression evaluates, step by step
2021-01-23 14:03:25 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> it takes lots of effort to do that on paper
2021-01-23 14:04:20 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2021-01-23 14:05:31 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> it would be fun to be able to reason about haskell code symbolically and maybe even do proof by induction on it
2021-01-23 14:07:19 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
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2021-01-23 14:11:32 +0100 <merijn> johnnyboy[m]: Sounds like you want Agda or Coq :p
2021-01-23 14:11:36 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2021-01-23 14:12:02 +0100 <ephemient> something like https://github.com/rgleichman/glance maybe?
2021-01-23 14:12:02 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> I'm not sure if they do this either
2021-01-23 14:12:41 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> I mean, Coq and Agda
2021-01-23 14:13:33 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
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2021-01-23 14:15:01 +0100 <ephemient> or http://ideas.cs.uu.nl/HEE/ - less weirdness than Glance, but somewhat limited
2021-01-23 14:17:14 +0100i7c(VUiM3ot5bI@unaffiliated/i7c)
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2021-01-23 14:25:58 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> Glance, looks exciting, but it's not quite what I had in mind
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2021-01-23 14:38:13 +0100 <__monty__> johnnyboy[m]: If you squint a bit purity means you get referential transparency. So evaluation order isn't as relevant as in other languages.
2021-01-23 14:40:49 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
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2021-01-23 14:47:19 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> yes, but I'd still like to see how my code evaluates
2021-01-23 14:47:40 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> with pure untyped lambda-calculus, for instance, it's easy to just calculate what a function does
2021-01-23 14:48:03 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> in Haskell, it's in principle doable, but the syntax is much more complex
2021-01-23 14:48:09 +0100 <geekosaur> ghood?
2021-01-23 14:48:34 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> it's like integration
2021-01-23 14:48:49 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> I don't want to do that by hand, bacause Wolfram Alpha exists :D
2021-01-23 14:49:14 +0100fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:30f0:3e4d:2db1:15f4) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 14:49:29 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> but I suppose integrating by hand has pedagogical value
2021-01-23 14:49:45 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-195.static.apol.com.tw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 14:51:21 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> ephemient: That looks like what I was looking for
2021-01-23 14:51:22 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> thanks!
2021-01-23 14:52:10 +0100FogFeather(405c1c59@dsl-dhcp-katytxxchrc-64-92-28-89.consolidated.net)
2021-01-23 14:52:30 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-23 14:52:35 +0100fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:30f0:3e4d:2db1:15f4)
2021-01-23 14:55:14 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> Of course, Agda has this equational reasoning syntax
2021-01-23 14:55:36 +0100FogFeather(405c1c59@dsl-dhcp-katytxxchrc-64-92-28-89.consolidated.net) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 14:55:44 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> but my point was that I wanted something that gives me the chain of equations automatically
2021-01-23 14:56:05 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> I guess there must be lots of limitations for writing such a program
2021-01-23 14:56:09 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> decidability, etc.
2021-01-23 14:56:39 +0100 <geekosaur> @hackage ghood
2021-01-23 14:56:39 +0100 <lambdabot> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ghood
2021-01-23 14:57:12 +0100 <geekosaur> doesn't give you the chain of equations but does show evaluation as it proceeds
2021-01-23 14:57:33 +0100adm(~adm@117.208.21.89)
2021-01-23 14:57:35 +0100 <johnnyboy[m]> the page says "package not found"
2021-01-23 14:57:38 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 14:57:57 +0100 <geekosaur> hrm, hold on
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2021-01-23 14:59:39 +0100 <geekosaur> ah, silly me. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/GHood
2021-01-23 15:02:33 +0100fendor_fendor
2021-01-23 15:02:48 +0100 <fendor> __monty__, why only if you squint?
2021-01-23 15:03:07 +0100 <__monty__> fendor: Because of unsafe*
2021-01-23 15:04:02 +0100 <fendor> doesn't unsafe destroy purity?
2021-01-23 15:04:20 +0100 <__monty__> Sure but there's no indication.
2021-01-23 15:05:05 +0100 <fendor> ok, I see, thanks!
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2021-01-23 15:54:24 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
2021-01-23 15:56:18 +0100mrchampion(~mrchampio@38.18.109.23)
2021-01-23 15:56:38 +0100 <ij> does any one of Control.Lens.TH make lenses for a field "x" as "xLens" or "xL"?
2021-01-23 15:59:11 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2021-01-23 15:59:26 +0100 <ij> I guess I could use lensRules { _fieldToDef = something else }
2021-01-23 16:00:55 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 16:01:28 +0100 <ij> with mappingNamer
2021-01-23 16:02:46 +0100alx741(~alx741@181.196.69.141) (Quit: alx741)
2021-01-23 16:02:54 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com)
2021-01-23 16:03:08 +0100 <ij> has it ever happened to anyone that ghc extensions get deprecated?
2021-01-23 16:03:13 +0100 <ij> and break your code
2021-01-23 16:03:51 +0100 <Lycurgus> what do you think?
2021-01-23 16:04:23 +0100 <ij> I expect to hear a bitter yes
2021-01-23 16:04:43 +0100 <Lycurgus> (given 80% of the nicks here being human operated)
2021-01-23 16:05:04 +0100totoro2021(~t@unaffiliated/totoro2021)
2021-01-23 16:05:23 +0100adeene(~adeene@181.131.0.191) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-23 16:05:29 +0100 <Lycurgus> this isn't a culture of embitterment, not yet at least
2021-01-23 16:05:36 +0100 <ij> not sure what that has to do with anything
2021-01-23 16:05:42 +0100 <Lycurgus> (i.e this the hs culture)
2021-01-23 16:05:54 +0100 <ij> there is always room for being bitter
2021-01-23 16:06:05 +0100 <Lycurgus> the IT culture overall is ofc
2021-01-23 16:06:13 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 16:06:57 +0100 <Lycurgus> the bitterable are usually attrited out by year 10 or so
2021-01-23 16:07:05 +0100 <Lycurgus> out of doing proper anyway
2021-01-23 16:07:35 +0100 <Lycurgus> *embitterable
2021-01-23 16:07:51 +0100 <ij> maybe, maybe not
2021-01-23 16:08:31 +0100 <Lycurgus> also this particular skews heavily toward academe which has a different snakepit profile, especially for tenure track peoples
2021-01-23 16:08:45 +0100 <Lycurgus> *this partcular subsculture
2021-01-23 16:10:00 +0100 <ski> i would like `PatternSignatures' to come back
2021-01-23 16:10:03 +0100perrier-jouet(~perrier-j@modemcable012.251-130-66.mc.videotron.ca) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2021-01-23 16:10:27 +0100 <maerwald> what's this talk about culture?
2021-01-23 16:10:36 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 16:11:07 +0100 <ij> ski, I can't even find any docs about it :)
2021-01-23 16:12:21 +0100 <ephemient> API breakages happen far more often than GHC extensions being removed
2021-01-23 16:12:25 +0100 <Lycurgus> anyway to much extension jiggering might be something to avoid merely on the principle of having more robust cfgs where possible
2021-01-23 16:12:29 +0100Guest_83(7b6c5f3f@123.108.95.63) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-01-23 16:13:45 +0100 <Lycurgus> *too
2021-01-23 16:14:01 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-01-23 16:15:01 +0100 <Lycurgus> further research is needed, consult your doctor, thoughts and prayers, etc.
2021-01-23 16:15:39 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 16:15:59 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-01-23 16:16:09 +0100 <maerwald> my doctor doesn't appreciate when i talk about haskell
2021-01-23 16:16:40 +0100 <idnar> @hoogle Maybe a -> (a -> m ()) -> m ()
2021-01-23 16:16:41 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent.Async.Lifted forConcurrently_ :: (Foldable t, MonadBaseControl IO m) => t a -> (a -> m b) -> m ()
2021-01-23 16:16:41 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent.Async.Lifted.Safe forConcurrently_ :: (Foldable t, MonadBaseControl IO m, Forall (Pure m)) => t a -> (a -> m b) -> m ()
2021-01-23 16:16:41 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Extra whenJust :: Applicative m => Maybe a -> (a -> m ()) -> m ()
2021-01-23 16:16:46 +0100 <hpc> 4 out of 5 dentists agree that you talk about haskell way too much? :D
2021-01-23 16:17:00 +0100 <ij> idnar, isn't that void . traverse?
2021-01-23 16:17:28 +0100 <Lycurgus> also designating an LTS level and sticking with it for a while will mitigate
2021-01-23 16:17:49 +0100 <idnar> ij: which is traverse_; nice!
2021-01-23 16:18:06 +0100 <ij> yup
2021-01-23 16:18:10 +0100Achylles(~Achylles@189.79.237.149)
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2021-01-23 16:20:56 +0100adeene(~adeene@181.131.0.191)
2021-01-23 16:22:28 +0100 <nshepperd> quickcheck is so cool. i implemented an algorithm for computing tree decompositions using fgl, and fixed three bugs in it just by adding property tests for the three defining properties of a tree decompositions
2021-01-23 16:22:28 +0100hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 16:23:41 +0100hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap)
2021-01-23 16:24:12 +0100 <nshepperd> just running the algorithm on the counterexamples with some Debug.Trace added
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2021-01-23 16:32:13 +0100 <ij> It looks like there are namers exported fro Control.Lens.TH, but no way to use them generically
2021-01-23 16:32:37 +0100 <ij> at least I haven't found it yet
2021-01-23 16:33:36 +0100 <ij> makeLensesFor it is
2021-01-23 16:33:47 +0100eyenx(~eyenxeyen@unaffiliated/eye/x-1653358)
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2021-01-23 16:36:02 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek)
2021-01-23 16:36:24 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@cpe-45-46-139-165.buffalo.res.rr.com) (Quit: Exeunt)
2021-01-23 16:36:36 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-01-23 16:38:00 +0100 <dolio> ij: I think only two or three GHC extensions have ever been removed.
2021-01-23 16:38:18 +0100 <ij> makeLensesFor ((\n -> (n, n ++ "L")) <$> ["field1", ...]) :)
2021-01-23 16:39:00 +0100 <dolio> And the one ski is talking about might have gotten rolled into another (in a strange way), not truly removed.
2021-01-23 16:39:36 +0100hyperisco(~hyperisco@104-195-141-253.cpe.teksavvy.com)
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2021-01-23 16:41:18 +0100 <ephemient> somehow I thought NPlusKPatterns was removed but it seems it was just turned off by default
2021-01-23 16:42:13 +0100 <dolio> Yeah. Also in that case disabling them was the GHC 'extension'.
2021-01-23 16:43:35 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl)
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2021-01-23 17:09:15 +0100 <kw> Anybody know why lens's `to` used to constrain its result to `(Contravariant m, Functor m)=> (a -> m a) -> s -> m s`, but now it requires only `(Profunctor p, Contravariant m)=> p a (m a) -> p s (m s)` rather than requiring `(Profunctor p, Contravariant m, Functor m)`?
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2021-01-23 17:29:23 +0100Deewiant(~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi)
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2021-01-23 17:34:55 +0100 <Uniaika> maerwald: ping!
2021-01-23 17:35:19 +0100 <maerwald> what?
2021-01-23 17:36:24 +0100 <Uniaika> maerwald: do you have any suggestion on how to preserve .ghcup between github action steps?
2021-01-23 17:37:03 +0100 <Uniaika> I'm trying out to use ghc 9.0 in haddock CI : https://github.com/haskell/haddock/pull/1296/commits/2ec9214b3b2b8ee89154ed4949ea9f51592ab348
2021-01-23 17:37:16 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b8244c9e00c4750298ca336be2.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 17:37:17 +0100 <maerwald> it isn't there a cache?
2021-01-23 17:37:29 +0100 <Uniaika> and while the cabal store is cached well, I have some trouble with persistence of ghcup's artifacts
2021-01-23 17:37:34 +0100 <Uniaika> (and thus, the 9.0 compiler)
2021-01-23 17:37:56 +0100Jackk_Doe(~jackk@205.178.111.134) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 17:38:16 +0100Jackk_Doe(~jackk@205.178.111.134)
2021-01-23 17:38:34 +0100 <maerwald> i think you shouldn't apply a key for the ghcup cache?
2021-01-23 17:38:48 +0100 <maerwald> line forty one
2021-01-23 17:39:07 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-01-23 17:40:04 +0100DTZUZU_(~DTZUZU@207.81.119.43)
2021-01-23 17:40:16 +0100 <maerwald> maybe just os
2021-01-23 17:40:19 +0100 <maerwald> the rest not
2021-01-23 17:41:35 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZU@205.ip-149-56-132.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-23 17:41:52 +0100 <Uniaika> hm
2021-01-23 17:41:58 +0100DTZUZU__(~DTZUZU@205.ip-149-56-132.net)
2021-01-23 17:41:59 +0100 <Uniaika> I'll try that, thanks
2021-01-23 17:42:23 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b98aa4.dyn.optonline.net)
2021-01-23 17:45:07 +0100DTZUZU_(~DTZUZU@207.81.119.43) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 17:46:47 +0100andrewbeach(~riptidebe@072-181-113-105.res.spectrum.com)
2021-01-23 17:50:03 +0100andrewbeach(~riptidebe@072-181-113-105.res.spectrum.com) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 17:51:05 +0100andrewbeach(~riptidebe@072-181-113-105.res.spectrum.com)
2021-01-23 17:51:46 +0100 <maerwald> also note that there's a max cache size afaik
2021-01-23 17:51:54 +0100 <maerwald> you might exceed it
2021-01-23 17:53:47 +0100 <ski> kw : you could try asking in #haskell-lens
2021-01-23 17:53:50 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2021-01-23 17:54:30 +0100nly(~user@unaffiliated/nly)
2021-01-23 17:54:49 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz)
2021-01-23 17:54:50 +0100 <nly> @hoogle IO ByteString -> IO ByteString
2021-01-23 17:54:51 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent runInBoundThread :: IO a -> IO a
2021-01-23 17:54:51 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent runInUnboundThread :: IO a -> IO a
2021-01-23 17:54:51 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Exception mask_ :: IO a -> IO a
2021-01-23 17:55:19 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 17:56:04 +0100skilooks at nly
2021-01-23 17:56:20 +0100 <kw> ski: Thanks!
2021-01-23 17:56:56 +0100Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2021-01-23 17:57:30 +0100andrewbeach(~riptidebe@072-181-113-105.res.spectrum.com) ()
2021-01-23 17:58:14 +0100 <nly> don't look, help
2021-01-23 17:58:53 +0100 <nly> io-streams should have something like Data.ByteString.Char8.take for IO ByteString
2021-01-23 17:59:17 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2021-01-23 18:03:39 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-01-23 18:03:39 +0100nly(~user@unaffiliated/nly)
2021-01-23 18:04:10 +0100 <nly> oh, i added this
2021-01-23 18:04:10 +0100 <nly> -- No haskell user shall read, use, modify or distribute this
2021-01-23 18:04:10 +0100 <nly> -- file. Especially haskell users on #haskell @freenode.
2021-01-23 18:04:13 +0100nly(~user@unaffiliated/nly) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
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2021-01-23 18:06:11 +0100haveo(~haveo@sl35.iuwt.fr)
2021-01-23 18:06:28 +0100 <ski> i was wondering what you were wanting the `IO' for, in relation with `ByteString', and especially why you wanted `IO' in the argument type as well
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2021-01-23 18:07:28 +0100 <nly> 1 sec
2021-01-23 18:07:36 +0100 <ski> @type fmap . BSC.take :: Int -> IO BSC.ByteString -> IO BSC.ByteString -- but perhaps you were just looking for something like this ?
2021-01-23 18:07:37 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> IO BSC.ByteString -> IO BSC.ByteString
2021-01-23 18:07:49 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 18:07:56 +0100 <nly> omg. you're a genius thank you
2021-01-23 18:08:37 +0100 <nly> adding this
2021-01-23 18:08:37 +0100 <nly> -- ski can read, use, do whatever with this program
2021-01-23 18:09:28 +0100 <nly> what's BSC
2021-01-23 18:09:49 +0100 <ski> looking for `IO ByteString -> IO ByteString' specifically indicates that you want to relate the `IO' to the `ByteString' in some particular way. and since the `IO' is in the argument type, it suggests that you possibly wanted some "serious" use of that, like forking a thread, or establishing some dynamic context in which to run the action, or registering a callback, or something ..
2021-01-23 18:10:06 +0100 <ski> nly : lambdabot alias for `Data.ByteString.Char8'
2021-01-23 18:10:23 +0100conal_(~conal@66.115.157.73)
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2021-01-23 18:10:58 +0100 <Uniaika> maerwald: yeah I'm not super confident :/
2021-01-23 18:11:04 +0100 <ski> anyway, if you just wanted that `fmap', then that's not really relating `IO' to `ByteString' in any non-trivial sense .. which is what threw me off
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2021-01-23 18:12:23 +0100 <nly> thanks. think, i got it
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2021-01-23 18:30:58 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.106.228.121)
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2021-01-23 18:31:40 +0100perdent1(~perdent@101.179.130.83) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 18:31:45 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 18:32:10 +0100 <ij> what alternatives could you suggest to this? (\continues -> progress & continuesL .~ continues & unwindsL %~ ((cur, neighbours) :)) <$> continuesNextSorted origin'
2021-01-23 18:32:21 +0100avdb(~avdb@gateway/tor-sasl/avdb) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2021-01-23 18:32:25 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
2021-01-23 18:32:43 +0100rfn`(~user@116.88.230.170)
2021-01-23 18:32:44 +0100 <ij> ah, just do will do
2021-01-23 18:32:45 +0100rfn(~user@116.88.230.170) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 18:32:45 +0100Bergle_3(~Bergle_4@101.165.90.119) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 18:33:03 +0100Bergle_3(~Bergle_4@101.165.90.119)
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2021-01-23 18:42:53 +0100fosterite(~fosterite@2600:6c46:7800:fecf:30f0:3e4d:2db1:15f4) ()
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2021-01-23 19:08:16 +0100threestrikes(~haskell@24.243.229.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 19:09:24 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@S01061cabc0b095f3.vf.shawcable.net)
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2021-01-23 19:14:08 +0100hackagenet-mqtt 0.7.1.0 - An MQTT Protocol Implementation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/net-mqtt-0.7.1.0 (dustin)
2021-01-23 19:14:15 +0100conal(~conal@66.115.157.159) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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2021-01-23 19:31:53 +0100neiluj(~jco@unaffiliated/neiluj)
2021-01-23 19:33:37 +0100hackagedep-t-advice 0.1.0.0 - Giving good advice to functions in a DepT environment. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dep-t-advice-0.1.0.0 (DanielDiazCarrete)
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2021-01-23 19:43:23 +0100niekvandepas(~niekvande@dhcp-077-249-088-250.chello.nl)
2021-01-23 19:46:37 +0100 <hololeap> ok, so i have haskell-language-server installed, and it looks like ALE is installed. i have no idea what to do next...
2021-01-23 19:47:06 +0100threestrikes(~haskell@cpe-24-243-229-2.hot.res.rr.com)
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2021-01-23 20:44:38 +0100hackagehledger-stockquotes 0.1.1.0 - Generate HLedger Price Directives From Daily Stock Quotes. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-stockquotes-0.1.1.0 (lysergia)
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2021-01-23 21:06:19 +0100drozdziak1(~drozdziak@vps-520f86fd.vps.ovh.net)
2021-01-23 21:06:34 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 21:06:51 +0100 <drozdziak1> Noob question here, Why does Monad need Functor and Applicative?
2021-01-23 21:08:21 +0100 <geekosaur> An Applicative is a Functor plus some additional functionality. A Monad is an Applicative plus some additional functionality.
2021-01-23 21:08:29 +0100 <ski> every instance of `Monad' can be made an instance of`Functor' and `Applicative', in a uniform way
2021-01-23 21:08:58 +0100 <ski> so, might as well already require instances of `Monad' to be instances of `Functor' and `Applicative'
2021-01-23 21:09:30 +0100Alleria__(~textual@2603-7000-3040-0000-c9ad-d200-ba76-775e.res6.spectrum.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2021-01-23 21:10:52 +0100 <drozdziak1> So the requirement's main purpose is to disambiguate?
2021-01-23 21:11:26 +0100 <ski> it used to be that the `Monad' type class had no super class specified
2021-01-23 21:11:38 +0100 <ski> dunno what you mean by disambiguate
2021-01-23 21:12:56 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 21:13:27 +0100 <drozdziak1> I'm just not sure if any Monad-specific functions take advantage of Functor and Applicative properties specifically
2021-01-23 21:14:07 +0100 <ski> drozdziak1 : tip : if you just want to make a `Monad' instance, and don't want to bother thinking about `Functor' and `Applicative', just define `fmap = liftM' in the `Functor' instance, and `pure = return' and `(<*>) = ap' in the `Applicative' one. that will work as default implementations, provided you define `return' and `(>>=)' in the `Monad' instancde
2021-01-23 21:14:25 +0100 <drozdziak1> The differences feel subtle, But Functor vs. Applicative I already notice that in case of a tree the responsibility for handling different variants lies on Applicative instance side
2021-01-23 21:14:43 +0100 <ski> not sure what "take advantage of Functor and Applicative properties specifically" would mean
2021-01-23 21:15:02 +0100 <ski> does using `return' mean that you're taking advantage of an `Applicative' property ?
2021-01-23 21:15:22 +0100 <ski> (since `pure' ought to be equal to `return', and `pure' is a method of `Applicative')
2021-01-23 21:15:23 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 21:15:26 +0100 <geekosaur> return is there because Applicative originally didn't exist
2021-01-23 21:15:33 +0100 <ski> yes
2021-01-23 21:15:42 +0100 <geekosaur> sorry, misread who said that
2021-01-23 21:15:56 +0100 <c_wraith> :t traverse -- drozdziak1: isn't it nice to know you can use this with any instance of Monad, without checking if it's also an instance of Applicative?
2021-01-23 21:15:57 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
2021-01-23 21:16:16 +0100 <c_wraith> drozdziak1: when I started using Haskell, ST *wasn't* an instance of Applicative
2021-01-23 21:16:28 +0100 <c_wraith> drozdziak1: that was annoying, because it was obvious it could be
2021-01-23 21:16:33 +0100 <drozdziak1> ski Sorry, my knowledge is lacking. Ad. Monad-specific functions: I am trying to see if functions around Monad ever go "I'm taking this Monad m and I'm specifically using its <$> or <*> instead of >>="
2021-01-23 21:17:09 +0100 <geekosaur> not currently, but for historical reasons
2021-01-23 21:17:12 +0100 <c_wraith> drozdziak1: yeah, it's the other way around. It's about being sure you can use any instance of Monad with things that are polymorphic over Applicative instances
2021-01-23 21:17:17 +0100 <ski> if you don't need `(>>=)' (or something that depends on it), then you probably don't need to assume it's an instance of `Monad'
2021-01-23 21:17:25 +0100threestrikes(~haskell@cpe-24-243-229-2.hot.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 21:17:33 +0100 <geekosaur> arguably they should, but history didn't include Applicative so Monad reinvented it instead
2021-01-23 21:17:36 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 21:17:41 +0100neiluj_(~jco@91-167-203-101.subs.proxad.net)
2021-01-23 21:17:41 +0100 <geekosaur> as liftM and ap
2021-01-23 21:17:59 +0100 <ski> `liftM' and `ap' (and `liftA') are still useful, as default implementations
2021-01-23 21:18:54 +0100 <ski> drozdziak1 : elaborate on "in case of a tree the responsibility for handling different variants lies on Applicative instance side" ?
2021-01-23 21:20:04 +0100 <geekosaur> and then backward compatibility argued that we continue to use liftM and ap, and let users derive Functor and Applicative using them (because Applicative was added before it was made a superclass of Monad so many programs already had such derivations)
2021-01-23 21:20:08 +0100 <ski> drozdziak1 : would you assume `Ord a', then then only go on to use `(==)' and `(/=)', and not the ordering inequalities ?
2021-01-23 21:20:12 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-01-23 21:20:33 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2021-01-23 21:22:15 +0100Neuromancer(~Neuromanc@unaffiliated/neuromancer)
2021-01-23 21:23:26 +0100 <drozdziak1> ski Ad. tree example I think I misunderstood something. I believe Functor, Applicative and Monad serve a very similar purpose. But what makes Monad especially well suited for something like IO? Wouldn't a do-syntax implementation over Functor be enough?
2021-01-23 21:24:07 +0100 <ski> (btw, what do you mean by "Ad." ?)
2021-01-23 21:24:56 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-01-23 21:24:59 +0100 <ski> a `do'-notation for `Functor' would be fairly limited
2021-01-23 21:25:25 +0100 <ski> `Applicative' and `Monad' are for expressing sequencing (of effects)
2021-01-23 21:25:39 +0100 <ski> (the former, for "static sequencing", the latter for "dynamic sequencing")
2021-01-23 21:25:50 +0100 <drozdziak1> ski Ad. = "regarding", I thought it was a thing in English as well
2021-01-23 21:26:07 +0100 <sclv> they don't serve a similar purpose -- each is more specific than the prior with more power and less possible instances
2021-01-23 21:26:07 +0100 <ski> i haven't seen it before. ty
2021-01-23 21:26:33 +0100 <sclv> there are many things that are Functor and not monad or applicative, fewer things that are applicative but not monad, and then Very Specific things that are monad as well
2021-01-23 21:26:54 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 21:27:02 +0100 <sclv> don't think of it from the standpoint of "serving a purpose" -- think of it from the stand point of "having certain properties"
2021-01-23 21:27:29 +0100 <ski> if `T' is an instance of `Functor', then you can "lift" any function of type `A -> B', into a function of type `T A -> T B'. so if `T' expresses a kind of collection, then you can "loop over all elements of the collection, of type `A', computing a `B' for each of them, getting a new collection of `B's back"
2021-01-23 21:27:31 +0100 <sclv> there are more animals than there are mammals and more mammals than there are types of rodents
2021-01-23 21:27:38 +0100cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2021-01-23 21:28:35 +0100 <ski> if `T' is an instance of `Applicative', then you can also "lift multiple-arity functions", e.g. from `A -> B -> C' you can get to `T A -> T B -> T C'. note that this means that you're now combining one `T A' with one `T B', to get a `T C'
2021-01-23 21:29:05 +0100 <ski> with `Functor', you just pass in a (single) `T'-collection of `A's, and get out a `T'-collection of `B's
2021-01-23 21:29:22 +0100 <sclv> (note that to do this, you have to "pick" if you're doing `T A` or `T B` first, which is why applicative has sequencing)
2021-01-23 21:29:34 +0100 <ski> with `Applicative', you combine multiple ones (in a particular order, which may matter. hence it "expresses (static) sequencing")
2021-01-23 21:30:05 +0100bogdanp(~bogdanp@188.24.80.165)
2021-01-23 21:30:06 +0100lierdakil[m](lierdakilm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eeuxsijgzkfksifa)
2021-01-23 21:31:05 +0100 <sclv> With just functor and no applicative, ponder if you could write a function that takes two numbers input by the user, in distinct actions, and prints their result :-)
2021-01-23 21:31:12 +0100 <ski> for a particular `T', the ordering may or may not matter. but the general "interface" `Applicative' (and similarly for `Monad') *allows* the ordering/sequencing to matter. hence they "express sequencing"
2021-01-23 21:31:14 +0100 <sclv> er the result of their sum i guess
2021-01-23 21:31:30 +0100nineonine(~nineonine@2604:3d08:7785:9600:d432:dfde:d2e0:ad7c)
2021-01-23 21:31:44 +0100 <ski> e.g. for `Maybe', the ordering actually doesn't matter
2021-01-23 21:32:24 +0100 <sclv> but note that even "commutative applicative" is more powerful than functor just to be clear
2021-01-23 21:32:53 +0100 <ski> (more expressive, i'd perhaps say)
2021-01-23 21:33:16 +0100 <sclv> fair nuff
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2021-01-23 21:34:13 +0100 <geekosaur> now, there *is* an extension for applicative "do", but it can't do very much before it starts inferring a necessary Monad constraint to do what you asked it to do
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2021-01-23 21:36:02 +0100skilooks at drozdziak1
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2021-01-23 21:37:07 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2021-01-23 21:37:50 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2021-01-23 21:40:45 +0100 <ski> (my "effect reflective syntax" does handle all of `Functor',`Applicative',`Monad' in a common framework ..)
2021-01-23 21:42:24 +0100 <drozdziak1> Thanks for your explanations, I need to process this
2021-01-23 21:43:32 +0100Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
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2021-01-23 21:53:24 +0100spiderbubble(uid17704@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avlejttdzwsyjzui)
2021-01-23 21:56:29 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 21:57:22 +0100 <texasmynsted> Is there an alternative to read that can convert String to Int. I am converting [String] -> Maybe String, using viaNonEmpty head. I want to compose that with the read.
2021-01-23 21:57:54 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2021-01-23 21:58:15 +0100mouseghost(~draco@wikipedia/desperek) (Quit: mew wew)
2021-01-23 21:59:24 +0100texasmynstedfacepalm
2021-01-23 21:59:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> I think I see..
2021-01-23 21:59:44 +0100 <ski> > (runStateT . replicateM 3 . StateT) (reads :: ReadS Int) "2 3 5 7"
2021-01-23 21:59:45 +0100 <lambdabot> [([2,3,5]," 7")]
2021-01-23 21:59:57 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:02:44 +0100kupi(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkefntpavhwhxfim)
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2021-01-23 22:02:53 +0100 <ski> texasmynsted : `viaNonEmpty head' looks like it'd be just `listToMaybe' ?
2021-01-23 22:03:05 +0100 <texasmynsted> yes
2021-01-23 22:03:10 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 22:03:17 +0100skidoesn't see how that relates to `read'
2021-01-23 22:03:18 +0100 <texasmynsted> from Relude I suppose
2021-01-23 22:03:32 +0100 <texasmynsted> I have [String]
2021-01-23 22:03:38 +0100_ht(~quassel@82.169.194.8) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 22:03:40 +0100 <texasmynsted> I want Maybe Int
2021-01-23 22:03:44 +0100 <ski> where did you get `[String]' from ?
2021-01-23 22:03:52 +0100 <geekosaur> fmap?
2021-01-23 22:04:06 +0100 <geekosaur> and listToMaybe
2021-01-23 22:04:07 +0100 <ski> why just one `Int' (at most) ?
2021-01-23 22:04:07 +0100 <texasmynsted> It is a sent of arguments passed into a function. I only care about the first argument in the list of strings
2021-01-23 22:04:14 +0100 <texasmynsted> So I maybe get one String
2021-01-23 22:04:21 +0100 <texasmynsted> Then I want to convert that string to Int
2021-01-23 22:04:36 +0100 <texasmynsted> I should be able to fmap once I have a Maybe String
2021-01-23 22:04:58 +0100 <ski> @type Text.Read.readMaybe <=< listToMaybe
2021-01-23 22:05:00 +0100 <lambdabot> Read c => [String] -> Maybe c
2021-01-23 22:05:02 +0100 <texasmynsted> I do not know how to use Read correctly to fit it into my fmap
2021-01-23 22:05:21 +0100 <ski> (what if the reading fails ?)
2021-01-23 22:05:31 +0100 <texasmynsted> Then Nothing
2021-01-23 22:05:38 +0100 <ski> not try the next `String' ?
2021-01-23 22:06:18 +0100 <texasmynsted> correct. There should be only one argument sent into the function, even though the function takes a list of String rather than a single string. I can not control that function.
2021-01-23 22:06:19 +0100mmmattyx(uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vztaiqdgaaagdemu)
2021-01-23 22:06:22 +0100 <ski> then what i just typed above should work, i think
2021-01-23 22:06:34 +0100 <ski> i see
2021-01-23 22:06:55 +0100 <ski> (you could also use `join' instead, or `(>>=)'/`(=<<)', if you prefer)
2021-01-23 22:08:21 +0100 <ski> (note that `readMaybe <=< listToMaybe' is equal to `\ss -> readMaybe =<< listToMaybe ss' is equal to `join . fmap readMaybe . listToMaybe ss')
2021-01-23 22:08:24 +0100 <texasmynsted> yes, I think I prefer the bind
2021-01-23 22:08:46 +0100texasmynstedlooks up join
2021-01-23 22:08:47 +0100 <ski> (if you're already in `do', you can `<-', of course)
2021-01-23 22:08:51 +0100 <ski> @type join
2021-01-23 22:08:52 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
2021-01-23 22:09:00 +0100 <ski> join = (>>= id)
2021-01-23 22:09:28 +0100 <ski> f =<< m = join (fmap f m)
2021-01-23 22:09:35 +0100 <texasmynsted> where does listToMaybe live?
2021-01-23 22:09:42 +0100 <ski> @index listToMaybe
2021-01-23 22:09:42 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.Maybe
2021-01-23 22:10:10 +0100threestrikes(~haskell@cpe-24-243-229-2.hot.res.rr.com)
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2021-01-23 22:10:36 +0100 <texasmynsted> hm
2021-01-23 22:10:56 +0100Kaeipi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-23 22:10:59 +0100Merfont(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-01-23 22:11:08 +0100 <texasmynsted> how is readMaybe better than fmaping read?
2021-01-23 22:11:42 +0100 <geekosaur> read throws an exception if the String doesn't represent a number. readMaybe returns Nothing
2021-01-23 22:12:11 +0100texasmynstedfacepalm
2021-01-23 22:12:14 +0100 <texasmynsted> Okay yes
2021-01-23 22:12:18 +0100 <texasmynsted> that makes sense
2021-01-23 22:13:04 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 22:13:42 +0100 <ski> `read' basically only makes sense if you're sure you won't misparse, or if you don't care about aborting the program
2021-01-23 22:13:47 +0100ndcroos(51f51515@81.245.21.21)
2021-01-23 22:14:16 +0100 <ski> (you can catch in `IO', but imho you shouldn't reach for that, unless you really need to)
2021-01-23 22:14:35 +0100 <texasmynsted> So now I just need to determine if I should actually use the Kleisli
2021-01-23 22:14:57 +0100 <ski> you can catch parse failure with `reads' and `readMaybe' directly, otoh, by just checking the `Maybe' / the list
2021-01-23 22:15:04 +0100ndcroos(51f51515@81.245.21.21) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 22:15:14 +0100 <ski> why would you need `Kleisli' here ?
2021-01-23 22:15:31 +0100ndcroos(51f51515@81.245.21.21)
2021-01-23 22:15:47 +0100 <texasmynsted> readMaybe <=< listToMaybe
2021-01-23 22:16:31 +0100 <texasmynsted> I think that might be the win
2021-01-23 22:16:59 +0100 <texasmynsted> unless I am still confused
2021-01-23 22:19:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> Thank you. :-)
2021-01-23 22:20:01 +0100tzh(~tzh@c-24-21-73-154.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: jsdnbkjsd)
2021-01-23 22:20:04 +0100 <ski> well, that's not using `Kleisli' (the type constructor). although i guess `(<=<)' and `(>=>)' are known as "Kleisli composition"
2021-01-23 22:20:12 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2021-01-23 22:20:24 +0100 <ij> > _1 (swap . sequence . fmap swap . uncons) $ ("ab", 123)
2021-01-23 22:20:26 +0100 <lambdabot> (Just 'a',("b",123))
2021-01-23 22:20:33 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2021-01-23 22:20:36 +0100 <ij> I had never thought of using the (,) as lens functor
2021-01-23 22:20:48 +0100 <ij> that is so cool and I'll actually use this
2021-01-23 22:21:08 +0100 <texasmynsted> oh, I thought <=< and >=> were Kleisli arrows
2021-01-23 22:21:33 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:21:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> so like the Monad version of function composition
2021-01-23 22:21:52 +0100 <geekosaur> further complicated by "Kleisli" being a newtype wrapper to turn Monads into Arrows
2021-01-23 22:22:07 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:22:11 +0100 <ski> you said "use the Kleisli", not "use the Kleisli composition(s)"
2021-01-23 22:22:36 +0100 <texasmynsted> Heh. Okay. My apologies.
2021-01-23 22:22:58 +0100 <ski> @type \f g -> runKleisli (Kleisli f Control.Category.. Kleisli g)
2021-01-23 22:22:59 +0100 <lambdabot> Monad m => (b1 -> m b2) -> (a -> m b1) -> a -> m b2
2021-01-23 22:24:09 +0100 <ski> newtype Kleisli m a b = Kleisli {runKleisli :: a -> m b} -- for your convenience
2021-01-23 22:27:03 +0100Kaiepi(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148)
2021-01-23 22:27:36 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 22:28:22 +0100Merfont(~Kaiepi@47.54.252.148) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:28:55 +0100threestrikes(~haskell@cpe-24-243-229-2.hot.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:29:29 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2021-01-23 22:30:05 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Client Quit)
2021-01-23 22:32:58 +0100shinobi__(~shinobi@c-24-147-48-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
2021-01-23 22:33:00 +0100 <ij> it would be cool, if I could load up the working bits of half-broken files in ghci
2021-01-23 22:33:06 +0100 <ij> or at least the type signatures, perhaps
2021-01-23 22:33:07 +0100 <texasmynsted> hm.
2021-01-23 22:33:43 +0100 <texasmynsted> This looks awkward. there must be a better way right? The function sig s [String] -> Maybe String
2021-01-23 22:33:53 +0100 <texasmynsted> getReviewStars args = fmap (T.unpack . reviewStars) (readMaybe <=< listToMaybe $ args)
2021-01-23 22:34:09 +0100 <geekosaur> ij, -fdefer-all-errors used to be a thing
2021-01-23 22:34:12 +0100 <ski> ij : `-fdefer-type-errors' ?
2021-01-23 22:34:22 +0100 <geekosaur> texasmynsted, the $ isn't doing anything there
2021-01-23 22:34:46 +0100 <shinobi__> Does the Show typeclass implement print? I thought it did, but don't see it in the hackage entry
2021-01-23 22:34:50 +0100 <geekosaur> hm, maybe it is
2021-01-23 22:34:50 +0100 <texasmynsted> well I can't take it out.
2021-01-23 22:34:56 +0100 <ij> geekosaur, ski, beautiful! thank you
2021-01-23 22:35:02 +0100ndcroos(51f51515@81.245.21.21) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-01-23 22:35:12 +0100 <geekosaur> :t print
2021-01-23 22:35:14 +0100 <lambdabot> Show a => a -> IO ()
2021-01-23 22:35:27 +0100 <texasmynsted> There should be a way to pull out args so I can Eta reduce right?
2021-01-23 22:35:29 +0100 <ij> it's so cool, it's out of this world
2021-01-23 22:35:31 +0100 <geekosaur> print *uses* show, it is not implemented by the Show typeclass
2021-01-23 22:35:44 +0100 <ski> @src print
2021-01-23 22:35:44 +0100 <lambdabot> print x = putStrLn (show x)
2021-01-23 22:38:16 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.165.130.159.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 22:38:33 +0100 <texasmynsted> okay this works
2021-01-23 22:38:35 +0100 <texasmynsted> getReviewStars = fmap (T.unpack . reviewStars) . (readMaybe <=< listToMaybe)
2021-01-23 22:41:45 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2021-01-23 22:45:32 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-argdykblecfemxgk)
2021-01-23 22:47:07 +0100geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2021-01-23 22:48:51 +0100mmfood(~mmfood@194.103.157.95) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 22:50:15 +0100 <texasmynsted> So a question of style
2021-01-23 22:50:24 +0100 <texasmynsted> This looks overly complicated. https://gist.github.com/mmynsted/b0e512c4f5cf93992e790bc997b2cc52
2021-01-23 22:50:40 +0100 <texasmynsted> I like that I have the sig for f in the where.
2021-01-23 22:50:43 +0100 <ij> > ((Sum 1, ()) >>= (Sum 5,))
2021-01-23 22:50:45 +0100 <lambdabot> (Sum {getSum = 6},())
2021-01-23 22:50:48 +0100 <ij> whack
2021-01-23 22:50:53 +0100 <texasmynsted> How may I make this better?
2021-01-23 22:51:52 +0100 <ski> stop using `$' ?
2021-01-23 22:51:52 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:52:21 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2021-01-23 22:53:38 +0100 <texasmynsted> how does that help?
2021-01-23 22:53:55 +0100 <ski> `$´ is ugly, so not using it makes the code better ?
2021-01-23 22:54:07 +0100 <texasmynsted> you prefer () over $?
2021-01-23 22:54:10 +0100 <ski> yes
2021-01-23 22:54:16 +0100 <ij> are you really not a fan!?
2021-01-23 22:54:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> o_O
2021-01-23 22:54:44 +0100 <ski> i'll only consider using `$´, if the expression spans more than one line
2021-01-23 22:54:54 +0100 <ij> I agree $ is not always the best choice, however
2021-01-23 22:54:57 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 22:55:10 +0100 <ski> `f x (g y)' is clearly better than `f x $ g y'
2021-01-23 22:55:17 +0100 <ij> ski, what if you have too many parens?
2021-01-23 22:55:33 +0100 <ski> (not to speak of the ugliness of `f x (g y $ h z)')
2021-01-23 22:56:06 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2021-01-23 22:56:11 +0100 <ski> `.' can often be used in that case
2021-01-23 22:56:11 +0100 <texasmynsted> hm
2021-01-23 22:56:38 +0100 <ski> `(f . g . h) x' is better than `f . g . h $ x', which can be preferable to `f (g (h x))'
2021-01-23 22:56:43 +0100 <texasmynsted> Do you think that using () makes it easier to see when the expression can be simplified?
2021-01-23 22:57:26 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2021-01-23 22:57:27 +0100 <texasmynsted> (f . g . h) x looks the same to me as f . g . h $ x
2021-01-23 22:57:38 +0100geekosaur(82650c7c@130.101.12.124) (Quit: Connection closed)
2021-01-23 22:57:40 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-argdykblecfemxgk) ()
2021-01-23 22:57:47 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy) (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-01-23 22:57:52 +0100 <texasmynsted> just busier
2021-01-23 22:57:56 +0100 <ski> i don't have a problem with a few brackets
2021-01-23 22:58:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> Is there a better way to nest functions with a signature than what I did with the where?
2021-01-23 22:58:49 +0100 <ski> if i start to have brecketed expressions spanning multiple lines, especially if many of the closing brackets end in the same place, that's when i'll start looking for a way to refactor it to make it look nicer
2021-01-23 22:58:57 +0100 <ski> getReviewStars = maybe "" (T.unpack . reviewStars) . (readMaybe <=< listToMaybe) -- oh, i and i forgot to mention this
2021-01-23 22:59:13 +0100 <ski> texasmynsted : just put the signature above `f', as usual
2021-01-23 22:59:24 +0100 <ski> getReviewStars args = ..args..f..
2021-01-23 22:59:27 +0100 <ski> where
2021-01-23 22:59:34 +0100 <ski> f :: [String] -> ...
2021-01-23 22:59:36 +0100 <texasmynsted> That works?
2021-01-23 22:59:37 +0100 <ski> f= ...
2021-01-23 22:59:40 +0100 <ski> yes
2021-01-23 22:59:41 +0100texasmynstedtries that.
2021-01-23 23:00:15 +0100 <ski> (normally preferable to putting a type ascription on the body, like you had it in your paste)
2021-01-23 23:00:25 +0100 <texasmynsted> Wow nice!
2021-01-23 23:00:37 +0100 <texasmynsted> that is much better
2021-01-23 23:00:45 +0100 <ski> anyway, see how you can use `maybe' instead of `fromMaybe' as above ^
2021-01-23 23:01:07 +0100 <ski> fromMaybe d = maybe d id
2021-01-23 23:01:11 +0100 <ski> so
2021-01-23 23:01:19 +0100 <ski> fromMaybe "" (f args)
2021-01-23 23:01:28 +0100 <ski> = maybe "" id (f args)
2021-01-23 23:01:32 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2021-01-23 23:01:36 +0100pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-01-23 23:01:50 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2021-01-23 23:01:58 +0100 <ski> = maybe "" id ((fmap (T.unpack . reviewStars . (...)) args)
2021-01-23 23:02:08 +0100 <ij> I abuse $ less now, but I still like it
2021-01-23 23:02:22 +0100 <ski> = maybe "" (T.unpack . reviewStars) ((...) args)
2021-01-23 23:02:45 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b8244c9e00f964c5233918bfa3.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2021-01-23 23:03:08 +0100 <texasmynsted> why is maybe better? When I do that I get a suggestion to change it back from hlint
2021-01-23 23:03:11 +0100 <ski> (i used here that `maybe d f (fmap g m) = maybe d (f . g) m')
2021-01-23 23:03:22 +0100 <ski> because you can avoid using `fmap', that way ?
2021-01-23 23:03:47 +0100 <ij> ski, why do you put a space before the `?'?
2021-01-23 23:03:49 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2021-01-23 23:03:59 +0100 <texasmynsted> ohhh
2021-01-23 23:04:11 +0100 <ski> ij : how i was taught it, in school
2021-01-23 23:04:17 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2021-01-23 23:04:45 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 23:04:50 +0100 <ij> huh! what country were you schooled
2021-01-23 23:05:10 +0100 <ski> Sweden
2021-01-23 23:05:43 +0100 <ij> fair enough
2021-01-23 23:06:13 +0100pavonia(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2021-01-23 23:07:50 +0100 <ij> I need an uncons for the first list inside – [[1]] -> Just (1, [[]])
2021-01-23 23:08:21 +0100 <texasmynsted> wow. very nice
2021-01-23 23:08:58 +0100 <texasmynsted> ski do you use haskell at work?
2021-01-23 23:10:23 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2021-01-23 23:11:23 +0100 <ij> "yes, in the break time"
2021-01-23 23:11:31 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-01-23 23:13:26 +0100 <texasmynsted> It seems it would take a long time to instill all the types for this kind of type tetris
2021-01-23 23:14:19 +0100oisdk(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:ccad:148:353e:8c25)
2021-01-23 23:16:34 +0100 <texasmynsted> Thanks again for the help.
2021-01-23 23:17:27 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
2021-01-23 23:18:33 +0100mmkarakaya(~mmkarakay@176.33.226.136)
2021-01-23 23:18:46 +0100Codaraxis__(~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net)
2021-01-23 23:18:47 +0100 <texasmynsted> :-) Haskell is so beautiful
2021-01-23 23:20:13 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-83-215.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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