IRCBrowse

2020/11/26

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2020-11-26 00:13:19 +0100 <kupi> i have found out it does not copy because uses plusForeignPtr
2020-11-26 00:13:53 +0100 <ski> kupi : it slices, i'd imagine
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2020-11-26 00:38:23 +0100 <koz_> Lazy ByteStrings are like, arrays of chunks right?
2020-11-26 00:39:37 +0100 <hpc> linked list of chunks
2020-11-26 00:40:24 +0100 <koz_> hpc: So like [Chunk]?
2020-11-26 00:40:33 +0100 <koz_> And chunks are... strict ByteStrings?
2020-11-26 00:41:48 +0100 <hpc> more or less
2020-11-26 00:41:49 +0100 <hpc> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.11.0.0/docs/src/Data.ByteString.Lazy.Internal.htm…
2020-11-26 00:42:15 +0100 <koz_> Ah, they roll their own list.
2020-11-26 00:42:22 +0100 <koz_> Is there a reason for this?
2020-11-26 00:43:31 +0100 <koz_> Ah, strictness.
2020-11-26 00:44:47 +0100hekkaidekapus_(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
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2020-11-26 00:58:03 +0100 <int-e> koz_: unpacking saves an indirection
2020-11-26 00:58:16 +0100 <koz_> int-e: Yeah, that too.
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2020-11-26 01:01:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 01:02:12 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> in megaparsec, how do I consume all the rest of the input and capture the values, rather than dumping them like eof does?
2020-11-26 01:03:06 +0100boxscape(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55)
2020-11-26 01:03:15 +0100 <koz_> ezzieyguywuf: takeRest?
2020-11-26 01:03:55 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: perfect thank you!
2020-11-26 01:04:02 +0100 <koz_> ezzieyguywuf: No worries.
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2020-11-26 01:04:57 +0100 <int-e> koz_: https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/commit/130906ef928f9761978dd7d13bd4b3082badd1b1
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2020-11-26 01:06:48 +0100 <int-e> (I thought I remembered that it was defined as a list originally... and now confirmed it.)
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2020-11-26 01:14:08 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> another megaparsec question (please be gentle y'all, I'm pretty new :-P) - how do I parse a single character, but ANY character, not a particular? I'm trying to parse exactly 16 characters, but `replicate 16 char` won't do it b/c char is `Token s -> m (Token s)`
2020-11-26 01:14:42 +0100 <koz_> anyChar?
2020-11-26 01:14:58 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: hrm, I thought maybe printChar. Where do you see anyChar?
2020-11-26 01:15:13 +0100 <koz_> One sec.
2020-11-26 01:15:44 +0100 <koz_> anySingle
2020-11-26 01:16:02 +0100 <koz_> (which is just a fancy way of saying 'satisfy (const True)')
2020-11-26 01:16:16 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 01:16:44 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: ah hah, yes this makes sense. thank you.
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2020-11-26 01:44:47 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, I have a `parseEnd :: Parser Text` that parses some characters at the end of the input. I want everything leading up to this - it seems like `takeWhile` is the tool for the job, but I'm unsure how to combine this with `parseEnd`. I was thinking maybe `lookahead`, but this does not return a bool so can't be used as the predicate
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2020-11-26 01:46:27 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I'm trying to do the equivalent of the following in a regexp: ^(.*)SOMESTATICTEXT$
2020-11-26 01:46:39 +0100 <koz_> That's ambiguous.
2020-11-26 01:46:49 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: how so?
2020-11-26 01:46:57 +0100mikolaj_(~mikolaj@purple.well-typed.com) (Quit: leaving)
2020-11-26 01:47:10 +0100 <koz_> The first part could be anything, right?
2020-11-26 01:47:15 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> correct
2020-11-26 01:47:18 +0100 <koz_> (including nothing at all)
2020-11-26 01:47:25 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 01:47:49 +0100 <koz_> lookahead won't help here because you don't know how much you have to read.
2020-11-26 01:47:52 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, I guess really it's more like "^(.+)SOMESTATICTEXT$"
2020-11-26 01:48:12 +0100 <koz_> Ah, so you know there'll be _something_ prior to SOMESTATICTEXT?
2020-11-26 01:48:18 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I guess I can just read till the end of line then subtract the static text
2020-11-26 01:48:22 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: correct.
2020-11-26 01:48:38 +0100 <koz_> Hmm.
2020-11-26 01:49:05 +0100 <monochrom> I wonder if it's manyTill (string "SOMESTATICTEXT\n")
2020-11-26 01:49:19 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> monochrom: manyTill sounds promising, let me check that out
2020-11-26 01:49:56 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, is that from attoparsec?
2020-11-26 01:49:59 +0100 <monochrom> But generally, most parser combinator libraries are designed for positively specified grammars, not negatively specified "anything except this".
2020-11-26 01:50:01 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> can I still use it in megaparsec?
2020-11-26 01:50:31 +0100 <monochrom> I don't actually know megaparsec. I just assume if it's in parsec then it's in megaparsec.
2020-11-26 01:50:35 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> monochrom: hrm, if that's the case then option (b) should be fine, i.e. use the parsing library to get "everything else" and then I can post-process by taking off the static text at the end
2020-11-26 01:50:58 +0100 <koz_> ezzieyguywuf: If you are parsing Text, stripSuffix might prove helpful.
2020-11-26 01:51:10 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> koz_: yea, I am doing it as Text
2020-11-26 01:51:11 +0100 <monochrom> The exception (pun!) is those few parser combinator libraries that are built for nondeterminism and ambiguous grammars.
2020-11-26 01:51:43 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> this is non-deterministic, I'm parsing the "Description" field from my bank statements, lol.
2020-11-26 01:52:01 +0100Ariakenom__(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-104.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 01:52:16 +0100 <monochrom> but parsec, megaparsec, and a lot of others are designed for determinism.
2020-11-26 01:52:25 +0100Ariakenom__(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-104.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-11-26 01:52:42 +0100comerijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 01:52:48 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm. well I seem to be doing ok so far....
2020-11-26 01:52:53 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> 🤷
2020-11-26 01:52:58 +0100zariuq(~zar@fw1.ciirc.cvut.cz)
2020-11-26 01:53:10 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I was going to use regexp, then someone was like "I usually just use a parser"
2020-11-26 01:53:10 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> lol
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2020-11-26 01:54:06 +0100dequbed(~dequbed@yanduxian.paranoidlabs.org)
2020-11-26 01:54:25 +0100 <monochrom> Well, I guess things like manyTill can help.
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2020-11-26 01:55:41 +0100 <ski> @quote Japsu regex
2020-11-26 01:55:41 +0100 <lambdabot> Japsu says: iä iä, regex fhtagn
2020-11-26 01:55:45 +0100 <monochrom> regex makes it look easy because every regex engine goes out of its way to implement nondeterminism by heavy backtracking or heaving compiling NFA to DFA.
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2020-11-26 01:55:55 +0100 <monochrom> s/heaving/heavy/
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2020-11-26 01:57:31 +0100 <monochrom> What I want you to notice that CFG tools seldom make this easy. It is not just our community. yacc also makes you explicitly enumerate what you allow, not what you don't allow.
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2020-11-26 01:58:12 +0100 <monochrom> Hell, yacc is strongly anti-nondeterminism.
2020-11-26 01:59:16 +0100zebrag(~inkbottle@alagny-551-1-20-27.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-11-26 01:59:23 +0100erisco_(~erisco@208.98.222.65)
2020-11-26 01:59:24 +0100 <ski> having better support for intersection, difference, division/derivative could be interesting
2020-11-26 01:59:34 +0100 <monochrom> Negative specification comes into this equation because in the regex .*ABC, the .* part no longer means "anything", it now means "anything except ABC"
2020-11-26 01:59:36 +0100jedws(~jedws@101.184.150.93)
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2020-11-26 02:02:32 +0100 <ski> (and i wonder how to best represent stuff like "maximal munch". to a large extent, i think i'd prefer it, if `p' parses `s' and `q' parses `t' implies that `p * q' parses `s ++ t')
2020-11-26 02:02:33 +0100erisco(~erisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 02:03:37 +0100 <monochrom> Nondeterminism comes into the equation because it is a very good way of understanding any implementation strategy.
2020-11-26 02:03:43 +0100 <sarahzrf> i like the earley library
2020-11-26 02:04:28 +0100 <monochrom> CFG tools are mostly unsupportive of negative specification because set subtraction of two CFLs seldom give you a CFL.
2020-11-26 02:04:55 +0100 <monochrom> Whereas RLs are closed under set subtraction, so regex tools are much happier with it.
2020-11-26 02:05:43 +0100 <monochrom> and intersection too. CFLs not closed under intersection, RLs closed under intersection.
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2020-11-26 02:07:16 +0100 <monochrom> How to discover two CFLs that don't intersect to a CFL:
2020-11-26 02:07:43 +0100 <monochrom> Always remember that the poster child non-CFL example is { a^n b^n c^n | n natural }
2020-11-26 02:08:01 +0100hackagenetwork 3.1.2.1 - Low-level networking interface https://hackage.haskell.org/package/network-3.1.2.1 (KazuYamamoto)
2020-11-26 02:08:05 +0100 <monochrom> So simply come up with two CFLs that intersect to that. This is within your reach. :)
2020-11-26 02:10:50 +0100 <koz_> monochrom: Ah yes, that wonderful example that came up on my ToC assignment.
2020-11-26 02:11:28 +0100 <ski> { aᵐ⋅bᵐ⋅cⁿ | m,n : ℕ } ∩ { aᵐ⋅bⁿ⋅cⁿ | m,n : ℕ }
2020-11-26 02:11:29 +0100 <ski> ?
2020-11-26 02:11:35 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah!
2020-11-26 02:11:42 +0100 <ski> cool :)
2020-11-26 02:11:53 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-11-26 02:12:13 +0100 <monochrom> Generally, if a language has to synchronize three things, you can bet it has a problem.
2020-11-26 02:12:34 +0100 <koz_> And that's even before we get to the fact that nondeterminism actually adds power to CFGs (but not RLs).
2020-11-26 02:12:43 +0100 <monochrom> Synchronizing just two things, we know how to CFG it, it's just another "matching parentheses".
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2020-11-26 02:15:07 +0100 <koz_> sarahzrf: Earley parsers are quite cool, because their asymptotics are tied directly to matrix multiplication.
2020-11-26 02:15:25 +0100comerijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 02:15:30 +0100 <shachaf> Hmm, is there some sort of dual-context-free that has intersection but not union?
2020-11-26 02:15:57 +0100 <shachaf> Like there are NFAs and dual NFAs that make unions and intersections respectively easy.
2020-11-26 02:16:16 +0100madog(~madog@163.ip-51-254-203.eu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 02:16:39 +0100 <koz_> shachaf: You lose intersection closure _very_ quickly with most recognizers.
2020-11-26 02:16:57 +0100 <koz_> (like, whichever way you increase expressive power tends to kill you)
2020-11-26 02:17:27 +0100 <shachaf> Hmm, but maybe concatenation isn't supported either.
2020-11-26 02:17:36 +0100 <shachaf> But I'm curious what this is like.
2020-11-26 02:17:40 +0100 <koz_> So I doubt such a thing exists, or at least in any meaningful sense as a 'dual' to CFGs.
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2020-11-26 02:29:14 +0100ski. o O ( <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorial_grammar>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montague_grammar>,<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregroup_gramm> )
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2020-11-26 02:31:39 +0100 <shachaf> Instead of "dual NFA" I should say "existential NFA" for the normal kind and "universal NFA" for the weird dual kind.
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2020-11-26 02:34:09 +0100 <ski> are there any adjunctions present, involving them ?
2020-11-26 02:34:17 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
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2020-11-26 03:09:33 +0100Jeanne-Kamikaze(~Jeanne-Ka@66.115.189.157) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 03:11:17 +0100 <koz_> shachaf: Do you have a formal definition of these NFAs?
2020-11-26 03:15:13 +0100 <koz_> Suppose I wanted to write a package that adds http://hackage.haskell.org/package/optics-core-0.3.0.1/docs/Optics-At-Core.html#t:Ixed definitions for, say, massiv arrays. However, the only way I can see to provide these instances is orphans, or asking massiv to cart around optics as a dep by integrating optics. Am I missing some third way?
2020-11-26 03:16:11 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 03:16:46 +0100 <monochrom> asking optics to card around massiv :)
2020-11-26 03:16:52 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm)
2020-11-26 03:16:57 +0100 <koz_> monochrom: _Fourth_ way, you pedant. :P
2020-11-26 03:17:12 +0100 <monochrom> My view is that this is one of those times orphaning is desirable.
2020-11-26 03:17:44 +0100 <koz_> monochrom: Yeah, I can't think of a way to do this without orphaning or newtypes.
2020-11-26 03:17:51 +0100 <koz_> And newtypes would kinda defeat the whole exercise.
2020-11-26 03:17:55 +0100ocamler(3263cbdb@50.99.203.219)
2020-11-26 03:18:55 +0100 <ocamler> hello friends! I have a probably simple question, I have a function which is wraps the state monad: `solve :: [(Int, Int)] -> ST s [Int]` which is called from `main :: IO ()`, how can I get these types to match?
2020-11-26 03:20:23 +0100 <koz_> ST s [Int] would need to be runST'd to get out the [Int].
2020-11-26 03:20:46 +0100 <koz_> (and state monad /= ST)
2020-11-26 03:21:10 +0100 <ocamler> oh oops right, wow I never knew there is a runST, is that still considered pure?
2020-11-26 03:21:18 +0100 <monochrom> yes
2020-11-26 03:21:36 +0100 <koz_> ocamler: It's the effect describing (locally) mutable state.
2020-11-26 03:21:38 +0100jamm_(~jamm@unaffiliated/jamm) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 03:21:47 +0100 <koz_> It's also the thing that powers IO.
2020-11-26 03:21:56 +0100 <koz_> (read Lazy Functional State Threads if you want the details)
2020-11-26 03:24:29 +0100 <ocamler> thanks! I'll check it out
2020-11-26 03:25:48 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> what does ghcid's --reload actually do? I can see that it does _something_, but it doesn't (for example), re-build a library that has chnaged
2020-11-26 03:26:44 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm, I guess it re-runs --command
2020-11-26 03:27:02 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> but I'd expect `cabal repl` to rebuild something that's changed..
2020-11-26 03:27:10 +0100int-ewould expect something similar to ghci's :reload
2020-11-26 03:27:30 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> but it doesn't!
2020-11-26 03:27:33 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> int-e: yea it is :reload
2020-11-26 03:28:01 +0100 <int-e> so... it would only recompile the modules of the "local" package, but not look at any dependencies
2020-11-26 03:28:05 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> so if I do `cabal repl exe:MyExe`, and then make a change to lib:MyLib (which MyExe uses), and then :reload, ghcid does NOT rebuild MyLib
2020-11-26 03:28:15 +0100xff0x_(~fox@2001:1a81:52e2:1100:66fc:dc44:c41d:a54)
2020-11-26 03:28:24 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> MyLib and MyExe are both local
2020-11-26 03:28:35 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> could it be I have something borked it my .cabal file?
2020-11-26 03:28:36 +0100 <int-e> for this purpose they're not
2020-11-26 03:28:41 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> hrm
2020-11-26 03:29:00 +0100 <int-e> lib:MyLib is built and registered as a package; ghci(d) would only see the executable's own modules
2020-11-26 03:29:13 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> ah, I see
2020-11-26 03:29:23 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> I don't think I need a lib - I think I just need modules for MyExe
2020-11-26 03:29:30 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> int-e: thanks for helping me think through that.
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2020-11-26 04:10:13 +0100sand_dull(~theuser@c-73-149-95-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 04:10:52 +0100 <ocamler> lol why is [0..10] inclusive
2020-11-26 04:11:03 +0100 <ocamler> i just spent like 15 minutes debugging that
2020-11-26 04:12:06 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 04:12:18 +0100 <koz_> ocamler: ... because it is?
2020-11-26 04:12:30 +0100 <koz_> That's just how Enum-based ranges like that work.
2020-11-26 04:12:38 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.183.18)
2020-11-26 04:13:27 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 04:13:36 +0100 <ocamler> ohhh I see, its for Enums as well
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2020-11-26 04:14:12 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23) (Quit: Seeee yaaaa)
2020-11-26 04:14:13 +0100 <koz_> > [LT ..]
2020-11-26 04:14:15 +0100 <lambdabot> [LT,EQ,GT]
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2020-11-26 04:17:03 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 04:17:30 +0100 <ocamler> damn thats cool
2020-11-26 04:18:10 +0100 <ocamler> pretty sure thats impossible in ocaml
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2020-11-26 04:52:39 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 04:55:06 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> how can I turn a [[String]] into a [[Text]]?
2020-11-26 04:55:21 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> fmap . fmap?
2020-11-26 04:55:30 +0100 <dolio> (fmap . fmap) pack
2020-11-26 04:57:03 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> dolio: nice, thank you.
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2020-11-26 05:02:14 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZU@207.81.171.116)
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2020-11-26 05:05:18 +0100incertia(~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-26 05:05:31 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Quit: vg)
2020-11-26 05:05:40 +0100incertia(~incertia@d4-50-26-103.nap.wideopenwest.com)
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2020-11-26 05:06:09 +0100 <incertia> would there be any interest in a prism equivalent for data-has
2020-11-26 05:06:13 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 05:07:15 +0100 <incertia> e.g. class MightHave a t where hasPrism :: Prism' t a
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2020-11-26 05:07:46 +0100 <incertia> and then you would be able to lift up errors into more general contexts with mtl
2020-11-26 05:08:37 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@113.87.161.66) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 05:08:41 +0100 <incertia> throwE :: (MightHave e err, MonadError e m) => e -> m ()
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2020-11-26 05:09:06 +0100 <incertia> throwE = throwError . review hasPrism
2020-11-26 05:10:36 +0100agrifminaj
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2020-11-26 05:21:34 +0100 <arpl> Is it useful to define a class for the sole purpose of creating a constraint (and the only 'proof' is having an instance)? So when you have a (higher order) function that takes a compression function, for instance, you can constrain it to only lossless compression.
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2020-11-26 05:50:16 +0100 <koz_> arpl: It can be sometimes.
2020-11-26 05:50:46 +0100 <koz_> However, you almost always have some kind of behaviour to go with this constraint, so you may as well define that too.
2020-11-26 05:51:12 +0100 <koz_> Because otherwise, it tells you something but you can't do anything with this value you just got.
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2020-11-26 05:54:31 +0100 <arpl> That is true and I understand that. It is certainly nice when there are laws associated with a class. But I was thinking about situations (and maybe my example wasn't quite right) where there are no laws associated and you just want the user of that function to 'acknowledge' a certain constraint by making an instance and 'promising' to obey (when
2020-11-26 05:54:31 +0100 <arpl> enforcement is not possible).
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2020-11-26 05:54:54 +0100 <koz_> If your type class lacks laws, you should ask yourself _especially_ hard if that's really what you want.
2020-11-26 05:55:06 +0100 <koz_> (in fact, certain folks would go so far as saying that all type classes should have them)
2020-11-26 05:55:40 +0100 <koz_> Also, I didn't say anything about _laws_ - I merely said that type classes which only satisfy a constraint, without some associated behaviour, have quite limited usefulness.
2020-11-26 05:55:53 +0100 <koz_> (although maybe I misunderstood and your type class _does_ have some methods?)
2020-11-26 05:56:10 +0100 <arpl> Fair enough. I was only wondering.
2020-11-26 05:57:20 +0100 <arpl> No, I was asking about a class with no methods, just to have some kind of constraint that should be acknowledged. I wasn't thinking about actually implementing something like that, just asking about the usefullness, if any.
2020-11-26 05:57:31 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Quit: vg)
2020-11-26 05:57:36 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, a type class with no methods has very limited utility.
2020-11-26 05:57:47 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 05:57:53 +0100 <koz_> Mostly because 'some value satisfies a constraint' gives you very little you can actually _do_ with that value afterwards.
2020-11-26 05:58:04 +0100 <koz_> Because as far as the function it got passed into is concerned, it could literally be anything.
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2020-11-26 05:59:25 +0100 <arpl> Understood too. Just like the exhaustiveness check, this would be some 'user defined compiler warning' like: Are you sure this compression function is indeed lossless?
2020-11-26 06:00:14 +0100 <c_wraith> err, sorry
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2020-11-26 06:00:51 +0100 <koz_> Well, if a compression function is lossless, surely you want a type class with a 'compress' and 'decompress' method, with the law that 'compress . decompress == id'?
2020-11-26 06:01:30 +0100 <koz_> (and probably an associated type for the compression result, although you could just use ByteString or something)
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2020-11-26 06:02:48 +0100 <arpl> To make clear: This is beginner's question. Just learning Haskell. Yes, I agree ... compression would have associated laws/invariants. Thank you for your time. Back to just pondering : )
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2020-11-26 06:19:01 +0100hackagetypson-core 0.1.0.0 - Type-safe PostgreSQL JSON Querying https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-core-0.1.0.0 (aaronallen8455)
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2020-11-26 06:26:35 +0100 <jle`> incertia: maybe not Has, but As :)
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2020-11-26 06:32:30 +0100 <crestfallen> hello is there a beginners channel or should I go to #haskell-overflow ? there is something fundamental I don't understand between do notation and bind notation; in the "divvy" example at the bottom of this paste: http://ix.io/2Fvz
2020-11-26 06:32:35 +0100supercoven(~Supercove@194.34.133.94)
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2020-11-26 06:33:32 +0100 <incertia> i mocked up a sample library basically by inlining the lens definitions, is there anything i can simplify? https://gist.github.com/incertia/f1386a06b7c2a008f0bbbd6d1d74a0b9
2020-11-26 06:33:57 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.88.197)
2020-11-26 06:34:27 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> divvy is missing a read compared to divv
2020-11-26 06:35:14 +0100 <crestfallen> thanks MarcelineVQ I've been trying put a second read in for a very long time. what's the trick?
2020-11-26 06:35:37 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> do the same thing you did for the first read
2020-11-26 06:37:55 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> x <- read became read >>= \x -> ... so you just do that again
2020-11-26 06:38:49 +0100 <crestfallen> o ne moment please
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2020-11-26 06:41:07 +0100 <crestfallen> I think the return clause requires " \_ -> ...". also I thought return requires the State :: ((),s) of write
2020-11-26 06:41:56 +0100 <crestfallen> I know it's a strange program, but I want the division by zero error when I use (-1)
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2020-11-26 06:42:50 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> monochrom made an IO tutorial that happens to cover how bind and do relate, by starting with bind only, http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/IO.xhtml But any google search about do notation in haskell will cover it as well, googling "translating do notation" for instance
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2020-11-26 06:43:36 +0100 <crestfallen> I've been using this: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/do_notation
2020-11-26 06:44:48 +0100 <crestfallen> I can see that there is a slight difference but I don't know how to insert the second read so that the "write (x+1) is maintained downstream
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2020-11-26 06:48:12 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> That one's fine. You've got all the tools you need there. Just do what they did.Your only difference is that you have 4 '
2020-11-26 06:48:19 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> actions' instead of 3.
2020-11-26 06:48:48 +0100 <crestfallen> i.e. this doesn't change the behavior to that of 'divv' divvy = read >>= \x -> write (x+1) >>= \_ -> read >>= \_ -> return (safeDiv (x*2) x)
2020-11-26 06:49:11 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> no it wouldn't, because you don't bind x again
2020-11-26 06:49:26 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> so you're using the old x instead of shadowing a new one like you did in divv
2020-11-26 06:49:54 +0100 <crestfallen> yes, thanks I understand, but what is the notation?
2020-11-26 06:50:01 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 06:50:37 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> :/ write x where you wrote _ in the same way you did it for the first read
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2020-11-26 06:52:31 +0100 <crestfallen> geez, I swear MarcelineVQ I thought I had done that 20 times. yes it works thanks kindly.
2020-11-26 06:52:35 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> Rather than not getting do notation what is happening here is that you're not getting >>= Otherwise you wouldn't need to ask what you're asking. the expression x >>= \y -> ... binds the result of computing/running/executing x, to the name y.
2020-11-26 06:52:39 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 06:53:06 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> do notation let's use write this as y <- x but the meaning is the same, run x, call the result y.
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2020-11-26 06:54:13 +0100 <crestfallen> what is the rule where the lambda after the second >>= must have the wildcard ? MarcelineVQ
2020-11-26 06:54:27 +0100 <crestfallen> I'm foggy on that
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2020-11-26 06:55:55 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 06:56:14 +0100 <jle`> incertia: looks solid to me :)
2020-11-26 06:56:34 +0100 <jle`> at least as a parallel to Data.Has
2020-11-26 06:56:41 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.88.197)
2020-11-26 06:56:54 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 06:57:02 +0100 <incertia> there should be no reason to pick a specific choice right
2020-11-26 06:57:19 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> You write _ if you don't care to name the result of some action. If you're not using the result in other words. For instance if you wrote
2020-11-26 06:57:20 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> do x
2020-11-26 06:57:23 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> y
2020-11-26 06:57:31 +0100 <jle`> incertia: what do you mean by specific choice?
2020-11-26 06:57:40 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@113.87.161.66)
2020-11-26 06:57:50 +0100 <jle`> ah my 'at least...' was that i'm still not super comfortable with such polymorphic mptc's
2020-11-26 06:57:58 +0100 <jle`> but it should be at least as usable as Data.Has
2020-11-26 06:57:59 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> that would be x >>= \_ -> y We don't bind a name for the result of x
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2020-11-26 06:58:14 +0100 <incertia> e.g. in the profunctor construction of lenses we have p a (f b) but we choice p = (->)
2020-11-26 06:58:22 +0100DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
2020-11-26 06:58:29 +0100 <jle`> ah, Choice
2020-11-26 06:58:29 +0100 <incertia> Prisms appear to apply to anything with Choice
2020-11-26 06:58:51 +0100 <incertia> and in such a way we can remove the lens dependency
2020-11-26 06:58:58 +0100 <incertia> er profunctors
2020-11-26 06:59:17 +0100 <koz_> @hoogle Choice
2020-11-26 06:59:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Combinators class Profunctor p => Choice (p :: Type -> Type -> Type)
2020-11-26 06:59:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Prism class Profunctor p => Choice (p :: Type -> Type -> Type)
2020-11-26 06:59:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Network.AWS.Lens class Profunctor p => Choice (p :: Type -> Type -> Type)
2020-11-26 06:59:19 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 06:59:22 +0100 <jle`> yup, you should be ok with using Data.Profunctor.Choice, you don't need a lens dep
2020-11-26 06:59:24 +0100 <koz_> Ah that thing.
2020-11-26 06:59:31 +0100 <jle`> oh btw there is an instance of `As () a` btw
2020-11-26 06:59:52 +0100 <crestfallen> thanks a lot MarcelineVQ happy thanksgiving if it matters to you.
2020-11-26 06:59:57 +0100 <jle`> er wait sorry
2020-11-26 06:59:59 +0100 <jle`> i mean As Void a
2020-11-26 07:00:09 +0100 <jle`> it's the analogue of Has () a
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2020-11-26 07:00:31 +0100 <jle`> ah, but there is no such instance in Data.Has. probably because of overlapping instances
2020-11-26 07:00:33 +0100 <jle`> nevermind :)
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2020-11-26 07:02:00 +0100thatlinuxguy(~sand49@2001:8003:8431:d200:8d49:ec:3d23:9521)
2020-11-26 07:03:22 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
2020-11-26 07:04:20 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 07:07:03 +0100 <incertia> _Void also happens to be Prism s s a Void and we are restricted to Prism s s a a
2020-11-26 07:07:03 +0100 <thatlinuxguy> Hi im having troble with generic typing. I'm trying to make a function that will return a flattened version of a given list. What I can't figure out is how to know when you've reached an element and not another list when recursing into the list, I know all elements of the base list will have the same depth because the list must be homogeneous but how do you determine what that is.
2020-11-26 07:07:40 +0100 <thatlinuxguy> sorry if I interrupted
2020-11-26 07:07:43 +0100 <crestfallen> MarcelineVQ: wondering. in both divv and divvy, we bind the result of read to x, but that is just the s (not the 'a' in (a,s) as well); i.e in \x it is just the single value of state: 's' .. correct?
2020-11-26 07:08:30 +0100 <jle`> incertia: that unifies though, with a ~ Void
2020-11-26 07:08:42 +0100 <jle`> so you can use _Void as a Prism s s a a
2020-11-26 07:08:54 +0100 <jle`> oh ah, my explanation is wrong
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2020-11-26 07:09:37 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 07:10:16 +0100 <crestfallen> the second place of the tuple, (a,s) or (s,s)
2020-11-26 07:10:24 +0100 <incertia> thatlinuxguy: if flatten :: [[a]] -> [a] your first pattern match will be on a list. e.g. flatten (a:as) = ... <-- here a is a list and you can further pattern match on that
2020-11-26 07:11:01 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-11-26 07:11:29 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> It's the a, the first place of the tuple, because the a is what the Monad instance acts upon and >>= is from Monad. read just happens to put the same value into both sides of the tuple.
2020-11-26 07:11:44 +0100 <incertia> so like flatten ((b:bs):as) = b : flatten (bs:as) and flatten ((b:[]):as) = b : flatten as
2020-11-26 07:12:04 +0100 <thatlinuxguy> ok cool that makes sense incertia
2020-11-26 07:12:13 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 07:12:36 +0100 <crestfallen> very helpful, thanks, I think that's why I was having trouble writing the read into it MarcelineVQ
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2020-11-26 07:13:43 +0100 <jle`> incertia: yeah, _Void works for As Void a, it unifies as a Prism a a Void Void
2020-11-26 07:14:54 +0100 <jle`> previewer = const Nothing; reviewer = absurd
2020-11-26 07:15:00 +0100 <incertia> jle`: Prism a Void => previewer :: a -> Maybe Void seems kinda weird
2020-11-26 07:15:06 +0100 <incertia> do we just have previewer = const Nothing?
2020-11-26 07:15:11 +0100 <jle`> it's weird, but lawful :)
2020-11-26 07:15:45 +0100Guest10117(~vollenwei@4e69b241.skybroadband.com)
2020-11-26 07:16:03 +0100 <jle`> a Lens' S A means that there is some type x where S is equivalent to (A, x)
2020-11-26 07:16:04 +0100 <incertia> i guess reviewer = absurd makes sense
2020-11-26 07:16:11 +0100 <jle`> S is some product of A and some other type
2020-11-26 07:16:18 +0100 <jle`> so you can "factor" S
2020-11-26 07:16:29 +0100 <jle`> a Prism' S A means that there is some type x where S is equivalent to Either A x
2020-11-26 07:16:40 +0100 <jle`> S is a sum of A and some other type, so you can "split" S, sum-wise
2020-11-26 07:16:57 +0100 <incertia> splitting with void makes sense yeah
2020-11-26 07:17:06 +0100 <jle`> in the case of united, Lens' s () is saying that any s is equivalent to ((), s)
2020-11-26 07:17:22 +0100 <jle`> and in the case of _Void, Prism' s Void is saying that any s is equivalent to Either Void s
2020-11-26 07:17:35 +0100 <jle`> maybe more of a theoretical nicety than a useful thing though
2020-11-26 07:17:54 +0100 <incertia> the sum perspective makes much more sense
2020-11-26 07:18:00 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 07:18:02 +0100 <jle`> that might be why there is no `Has () a` instance
2020-11-26 07:18:11 +0100 <koz_> Maybe Void is actually () in disguise. :P
2020-11-26 07:18:26 +0100 <incertia> no void is equivalent to empty set
2020-11-26 07:18:31 +0100 <incertia> and () is a set with one element
2020-11-26 07:20:05 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.88.197)
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2020-11-26 07:20:29 +0100 <incertia> Has () a does not cause any overlapping instance warning
2020-11-26 07:20:40 +0100 <incertia> ghc just tells me it's orphaned
2020-11-26 07:20:55 +0100 <incertia> but it doesn't seem to be very useful which is probably why it's not there
2020-11-26 07:21:01 +0100 <jle`> yeah, i'm guessing that there must have been some reason why it was not included
2020-11-26 07:21:23 +0100 <jle`> i wonder
2020-11-26 07:21:34 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
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2020-11-26 07:25:39 +0100SanchayanMaity(~Sanchayan@171.76.82.54)
2020-11-26 07:26:47 +0100 <koz_> incertia: There were missing quotes in what I said. I meant to say
2020-11-26 07:26:48 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-11-26 07:26:58 +0100 <koz_> 'Maybe Void' is actually '()' in disguise.
2020-11-26 07:27:19 +0100 <incertia> ooooooo
2020-11-26 07:27:21 +0100 <incertia> that makes sense
2020-11-26 07:27:54 +0100 <koz_> Maybe a has cardinality 1 + the cardinality of a.
2020-11-26 07:28:04 +0100 <koz_> And since Void has cardinality 0... yeah. :P
2020-11-26 07:29:39 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 07:29:52 +0100takuan(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2020-11-26 07:30:08 +0100 <jle`> ha ha
2020-11-26 07:30:21 +0100 <jle`> maybe the real void was the friends we made along the way
2020-11-26 07:30:39 +0100 <koz_> The Void is clearly staring into jle`
2020-11-26 07:30:49 +0100 <incertia> the real friends were the voids we found along the way
2020-11-26 07:30:52 +0100 <incertia> because i have no friends
2020-11-26 07:30:53 +0100 <incertia> :)
2020-11-26 07:31:06 +0100 <koz_> incertia: Void is unique. :P
2020-11-26 07:31:11 +0100 <koz_> (thanks, axiom of extensionality)
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2020-11-26 07:44:43 +0100 <crestfallen> :quit
2020-11-26 07:44:55 +0100 <crestfallen> exit
2020-11-26 07:44:58 +0100 <crestfallen> oops
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2020-11-26 07:51:31 +0100hackagewai-extra 3.1.3 - Provides some basic WAI handlers and middleware. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai-extra-3.1.3 (MichaelSnoyman)
2020-11-26 07:53:31 +0100jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.49)
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2020-11-26 07:57:30 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.49.253.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-11-26 07:59:24 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> place ur bets
2020-11-26 08:00:10 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-223-24-94-50.revip6.asianet.co.th)
2020-11-26 08:00:30 +0100hackagedata-as 0.0.0.1 - Simple extensible sum https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-as-0.0.0.1 (incertia)
2020-11-26 08:01:31 +0100hackagetypson-beam 0.1.0.0 - Typson Beam Integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-beam-0.1.0.0 (aaronallen8455)
2020-11-26 08:03:03 +0100 <jle`> woo hoo
2020-11-26 08:03:08 +0100 <incertia> apparently haddock hates my life
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2020-11-26 08:17:34 +0100 <incertia> does hackage not build haddock automatically on upload?
2020-11-26 08:17:43 +0100 <dminuoso> Correct
2020-11-26 08:18:17 +0100 <incertia> ok maybe that is why no links are showing up
2020-11-26 08:18:17 +0100 <dminuoso> 2Well
2020-11-26 08:18:24 +0100 <dminuoso> Hackage *tries* to build the documentation
2020-11-26 08:18:26 +0100 <dminuoso> But it can fail
2020-11-26 08:18:40 +0100 <dminuoso> incertia: https://hackage.haskell.org/upload
2020-11-26 08:19:23 +0100solonarv(~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-191-240.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-11-26 08:19:24 +0100 <incertia> nvm it generated i just had to give it like 15min
2020-11-26 08:20:10 +0100invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
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2020-11-26 08:32:12 +0100We(5fa448e7@95.164.72.231)
2020-11-26 08:32:16 +0100 <We> cleanup
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2020-11-26 08:39:28 +0100 <dminuoso> What would you call an operation `Tree (Maybe a) -> Maybe (Tree a)`?
2020-11-26 08:39:58 +0100 <jle`> could it be done for any Applicative instead of Maybe?
2020-11-26 08:40:02 +0100 <jle`> if so, i'd call it sequence
2020-11-26 08:40:21 +0100 <jle`> s/instead of/and not just
2020-11-26 08:40:40 +0100 <jle`> sequence :: Applicative f => Tree (f a) -> f (Tree a)
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2020-11-26 08:40:56 +0100 <dminuoso> Sure, I mean the actual types involved make it slightly more specialized, as I have
2020-11-26 08:41:02 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 08:41:09 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh well, its the same.
2020-11-26 08:41:12 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 08:41:16 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 08:41:23 +0100 <jle`> ah i meant, if you don't treat it in any way specific to Maybe that couldn't be done generically for all Applicative
2020-11-26 08:41:29 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
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2020-11-26 08:41:51 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 08:41:53 +0100 <dminuoso> Right. Well I was just thinking of specifically calling that specialized function `hasLabel`
2020-11-26 08:42:11 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 08:42:12 +0100 <dminuoso> I dont want to revisit later wondering about the uses of `sequence` here
2020-11-26 08:42:25 +0100 <incertia> probably fine to give it a specific name if its use case in that location is specific
2020-11-26 08:42:26 +0100 <jle`> the behavior of sequence would be more or less "allJust", maybe
2020-11-26 08:42:26 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 08:42:33 +0100 <incertia> yeah
2020-11-26 08:42:36 +0100 <jle`> i guess it depends on your use case too
2020-11-26 08:42:43 +0100 <jle`> maybe 'validate'
2020-11-26 08:43:11 +0100 <dminuoso> So I build up a patricia tree, and then I want to ensure it's also a valid regular labeled tree
2020-11-26 08:43:28 +0100 <dminuoso> *patricia trie
2020-11-26 08:43:52 +0100 <jle`> it sounds like you are describing a specific operation, then
2020-11-26 08:44:04 +0100 <jle`> and not just "a thing of type Tree (Maybe a) -> Maybe (Tree a)"
2020-11-26 08:44:15 +0100 <dminuoso> Well, internally it's very much just sequence..
2020-11-26 08:44:23 +0100 <jle`> so i would give it a name to whatever describes what you are doing, semantically :)
2020-11-26 08:44:28 +0100 <jle`> apart from just what the types tell you
2020-11-26 08:44:36 +0100 <dminuoso> Right. Leading us back to my original question
2020-11-26 08:44:38 +0100 <dminuoso> What would you call it :p
2020-11-26 08:44:57 +0100 <jle`> toValidRegularLabeledTree ?
2020-11-26 08:45:10 +0100 <dminuoso> heh
2020-11-26 08:45:14 +0100 <incertia> i probably would just do let allJust = sequence in and go on from there
2020-11-26 08:45:15 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysauiv50il654lwl.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-11-26 08:45:27 +0100 <incertia> but giving it a more apt name
2020-11-26 08:45:41 +0100 <jle`> give a name based on the type = i'd say sequence, probably. but give it a name based on how you are using it, toValidRegularLabeledTree is something i'd use
2020-11-26 08:45:46 +0100 <dminuoso> incertia: Yeah no, the reality is slightly more annoying. I have `Tree (ann, Maybe a) -> Maybe (Tree (ann, a))`
2020-11-26 08:45:52 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> wwcd ::​Tree (Maybe a) -> Maybe (Tree a)
2020-11-26 08:46:29 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 08:46:33 +0100 <dminuoso> So I need some double sequence/traverse
2020-11-26 08:46:37 +0100 <dminuoso> With flip
2020-11-26 08:46:46 +0100 <dminuoso> MarcelineVQ: wwc?
2020-11-26 08:46:46 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-223-24-94-50.revip6.asianet.co.th)
2020-11-26 08:46:55 +0100n0042(d055ed89@208.85.237.137)
2020-11-26 08:47:07 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> what would cale do
2020-11-26 08:47:25 +0100 <asheshambasta> Anyone with more reflex experience than I can tell me why this traces: https://github.com/asheshambasta/flowerpower/blob/showcase/servant-reflex-dependency/fht-frontend/… while this doesn't: https://github.com/asheshambasta/flowerpower/blob/showcase/servant-reflex-dependency/fht-frontend/… (I couldn't provide a more minimal repro. of this)
2020-11-26 08:47:59 +0100 <jle`> looks like `traverse sequence`
2020-11-26 08:48:44 +0100 <dminuoso> traverse (sequence . swap)
2020-11-26 08:48:50 +0100 <koz_> :t traverse sequence
2020-11-26 08:48:51 +0100 <lambdabot> (Traversable t1, Traversable t2, Monad f) => t1 (t2 (f a)) -> f (t1 (t2 a))
2020-11-26 08:48:54 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t traverse (sequence . swap
2020-11-26 08:48:54 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:26: error: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
2020-11-26 08:48:56 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t traverse (sequence . swap)
2020-11-26 08:48:56 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {t :: * -> *} {f :: * -> *} {a} {b}. (Traversable t, Monad f) => t (f a, b) -> f (t (b, a))
2020-11-26 08:49:12 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh, no. Actually traverse sequence right
2020-11-26 08:50:07 +0100 <jle`> traverse (sequence . swap . swap)
2020-11-26 08:50:28 +0100 <dminuoso> :)
2020-11-26 08:50:33 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@186.118.238.251) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
2020-11-26 08:51:26 +0100robotmay(~beepboop@80.172.187.81.in-addr.arpa) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 08:51:40 +0100 <dminuoso> traverse (sequence . swap . flip const id . swap)
2020-11-26 08:52:15 +0100 <dminuoso> Bet hlint cant figure that one out.
2020-11-26 08:52:33 +0100 <koz_> :t flip const id
2020-11-26 08:52:34 +0100 <lambdabot> c -> c
2020-11-26 08:52:39 +0100 <koz_> Lol.
2020-11-26 08:52:55 +0100 <jle`> :t const id ()
2020-11-26 08:52:56 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> a
2020-11-26 08:53:47 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 08:54:02 +0100 <incertia> i had to think about flip const id for a bit
2020-11-26 08:54:22 +0100 <dminuoso> Well you can put something more interesting into `id`, that is better for tripping you up
2020-11-26 08:54:25 +0100 <dminuoso> like `flip const fmap`
2020-11-26 08:54:48 +0100 <jle`> :t const id id
2020-11-26 08:54:49 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> a
2020-11-26 08:54:58 +0100robotmay(~beepboop@2001:8b0:7af0:2580:888:72a9:4a8e:aea0)
2020-11-26 08:55:04 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t flip const fmap
2020-11-26 08:55:05 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <interactive>:1:12: error:; * Ambiguous type variable `f0' arising from a use of `fmap'; prevents the constraint `(Functor f0)' from being solved.; Probable fix: use a type annotation to specify what `f0' should be.; These potential instances exist:; instance [safe] forall a. Functor (Q.Fun a) -- Defined in `Test.QuickCheck.Function'; instance [safe] Functor Q.Gen
2020-11-26 08:55:12 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh. wait what?
2020-11-26 08:55:20 +0100 <jle`> it doesn't know what Functor instance to compile there
2020-11-26 08:55:31 +0100 <jle`> :t flip const map
2020-11-26 08:55:33 +0100 <lambdabot> c -> c
2020-11-26 08:55:46 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh I guess this would need impredicative types?
2020-11-26 08:56:01 +0100 <incertia> asheshambasta: i would imagine it wouldn't get traced if dEitherPlant is Left
2020-11-26 08:56:08 +0100 <dminuoso> yeah `flip const map` it is
2020-11-26 08:56:15 +0100sdx23(~sdx23@unaffiliated/sdx23)
2020-11-26 08:56:16 +0100 <incertia> could be wrong here
2020-11-26 08:56:18 +0100 <jle`> flip const map itself only works because of defaulting i think
2020-11-26 08:56:30 +0100 <dminuoso> Why defaulting?
2020-11-26 08:56:33 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t flip const
2020-11-26 08:56:34 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {b} {c}. b -> c -> c
2020-11-26 08:56:43 +0100 <jle`> because it defaults to map :: (() -> ()) -> [()] -> [()]
2020-11-26 08:56:44 +0100raichoo(~raichoo@dslb-092-073-219-149.092.073.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 08:56:58 +0100 <jle`> otherwise it wouldn't know what to pick for a and b
2020-11-26 08:56:59 +0100 <jle`> :t map
2020-11-26 08:57:00 +0100 <dminuoso> Ah, I see. Otherwise that would have required impredicativity
2020-11-26 08:57:01 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2020-11-26 08:57:26 +0100 <incertia> in particular if any of eName or eDayPlanted are Left it would cause fst <$> maints/snd <$> maints to not be evaluated and thus not trigger the traceEvent
2020-11-26 08:57:28 +0100 <incertia> but im no guru
2020-11-26 08:57:34 +0100 <jle`> there should be defaulting for * -> *'s
2020-11-26 08:57:53 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 08:58:00 +0100 <dminuoso> You should open an issue on gitlab about that. Name `flip const fmap` as the motivating example.
2020-11-26 08:58:12 +0100dminuososmiles
2020-11-26 08:58:13 +0100 <jle`> bites me every day :)
2020-11-26 08:58:24 +0100 <jle`> i wonder what the default should be
2020-11-26 08:58:34 +0100 <jle`> maybe Identity first?
2020-11-26 08:58:41 +0100 <jle`> or maybe Proxy
2020-11-26 08:58:48 +0100 <jle`> ah yeah, Proxy first, then Identity
2020-11-26 08:59:17 +0100 <jle`> this would be my dream haskell
2020-11-26 08:59:54 +0100 <incertia> when i learned about Proxy my entire world changed
2020-11-26 08:59:57 +0100 <koz_> :t flip const map
2020-11-26 08:59:59 +0100 <lambdabot> c -> c
2020-11-26 09:00:03 +0100 <koz_> LOL
2020-11-26 09:00:18 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2020-11-26 09:00:26 +0100 <dminuoso> I think I should get three points for tripping koz_ up twice in a row.
2020-11-26 09:00:40 +0100 <incertia> that and DataKinds
2020-11-26 09:00:46 +0100 <incertia> it's so galaxy brained
2020-11-26 09:00:59 +0100 <xerox_> % :t flip const unsafePerformIO
2020-11-26 09:00:59 +0100 <yahb> xerox_: forall {c}. c -> c
2020-11-26 09:01:07 +0100 <koz_> incertia: Type :: Type is the real galaxy brain idea.
2020-11-26 09:01:19 +0100 <dminuoso> xerox_: Oh I have an idea.
2020-11-26 09:01:24 +0100 <dminuoso> flip const unsafeCoerce
2020-11-26 09:01:35 +0100 <koz_> :t flip const unsafeCoerce
2020-11-26 09:01:37 +0100 <lambdabot> error: Variable not in scope: unsafeCoerce
2020-11-26 09:01:46 +0100acowley(~acowley@c-68-83-22-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 09:01:47 +0100 <dminuoso> % import Unsafe.Coerce
2020-11-26 09:01:47 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso:
2020-11-26 09:01:52 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t flip const unsafeCoerce
2020-11-26 09:01:52 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {c}. c -> c
2020-11-26 09:01:55 +0100 <dminuoso> This looks really dangerous.
2020-11-26 09:02:17 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2020-11-26 09:02:28 +0100 <jle`> `flip const unsafeCoerce` is pretty much the same as `unsafeCoerce`, ironically
2020-11-26 09:02:33 +0100 <jle`> just with a more specialized type
2020-11-26 09:02:42 +0100 <dminuoso> Okay enough of flip const. What other elaborate ways of doing.. nothing can you think of?
2020-11-26 09:02:50 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Quit: vg)
2020-11-26 09:03:01 +0100 <jle`> % map ($ 10) [unsafeCoerce, flip const unsafeCoerce]
2020-11-26 09:03:01 +0100 <koz_> dminuoso: fmap id
2020-11-26 09:03:01 +0100 <yahb> jle`: ; <interactive>:92:1: error:; Ambiguous occurrence `map'; It could refer to; either `Data.List.NonEmpty.map', imported from `Data.List.NonEmpty'; or `Prelude.map', imported from `Prelude' (and originally defined in `GHC.Base')
2020-11-26 09:03:06 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:03:10 +0100 <jle`> D:
2020-11-26 09:03:15 +0100 <koz_> dimap id id also works
2020-11-26 09:03:16 +0100 <jle`> % Prelude.map ($ 10) [unsafeCoerce, flip const unsafeCoerce]
2020-11-26 09:03:17 +0100 <yahb> jle`: [10,10]
2020-11-26 09:03:28 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 09:03:28 +0100 <dminuoso> koz_: well those are very obvious
2020-11-26 09:03:28 +0100 <jle`> koz_: you mean dimap id id id
2020-11-26 09:03:38 +0100 <koz_> jle`: Rofl.
2020-11-26 09:03:38 +0100 <dminuoso> `dimap id id id` is slightly more running
2020-11-26 09:03:43 +0100 <dminuoso> cunning.
2020-11-26 09:03:44 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:03:47 +0100 <jle`> dimap id id wouldn't work i think
2020-11-26 09:03:54 +0100 <jle`> % Prelude.map ($ 10) [unsafeCoerce, flip const unsafeCoerce, dimap id id id]
2020-11-26 09:03:54 +0100 <yahb> jle`: [10,10,10]
2020-11-26 09:04:08 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 09:04:20 +0100 <jle`> % Prelude.map ($ 10) [unsafeCoerce, flip const unsafeCoerce, dimap id id id, const 10]
2020-11-26 09:04:20 +0100 <yahb> jle`: [10,10,10,10]
2020-11-26 09:04:28 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:05:13 +0100 <incertia> const 10 the big brain id
2020-11-26 09:05:30 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t fix ($)
2020-11-26 09:05:31 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: forall {a} {b}. a -> b
2020-11-26 09:05:33 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm.
2020-11-26 09:05:42 +0100acowley(~acowley@c-68-83-22-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 09:05:54 +0100Guest77209(5fa448e7@95.164.72.231) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-11-26 09:06:10 +0100 <jle`> how to heat up a CPU
2020-11-26 09:06:34 +0100 <dminuoso> Yeah. Who said pure code didn't have side effects.
2020-11-26 09:07:00 +0100 <incertia> oh god you can't even C-c out of it
2020-11-26 09:07:23 +0100 <incertia> that's so cursed
2020-11-26 09:07:30 +0100 <koz_> LOL
2020-11-26 09:07:47 +0100jonathanx(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2020-11-26 09:07:58 +0100 <jle`> % fix($)fix
2020-11-26 09:08:03 +0100 <yahb> jle`: [Timed out]
2020-11-26 09:08:43 +0100 <dminuoso> :t fix (const fix)
2020-11-26 09:08:44 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> a) -> a
2020-11-26 09:08:51 +0100 <dminuoso> Okay that looks like something now
2020-11-26 09:09:49 +0100 <dminuoso> % fix (const fix) $ \t -> (1, fst t + 1)
2020-11-26 09:09:49 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: (1,2)
2020-11-26 09:09:58 +0100 <dminuoso> Great. So we have a more elaborate way of doing fix
2020-11-26 09:09:58 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Quit: vg)
2020-11-26 09:10:11 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:10:40 +0100 <n0042> I'd like to take a moment to applaud whoever decided to name the Vector function `snoc`.
2020-11-26 09:10:41 +0100alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:9554:f534:a35:4872)
2020-11-26 09:10:45 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 09:10:49 +0100 <n0042> That is pretty swell.
2020-11-26 09:10:59 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:11:04 +0100 <dminuoso> n0042: snoc is just cons in reverse
2020-11-26 09:11:09 +0100 <n0042> Exactly
2020-11-26 09:11:12 +0100 <jle`> yeah, it's instantly understandable :)
2020-11-26 09:11:12 +0100 <koz_> n0042: It's 100 IQ wordplay relative some of the stunts Edward pulls.
2020-11-26 09:11:15 +0100 <koz_> :t confusing
2020-11-26 09:11:16 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 09:11:17 +0100 <lambdabot> Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b
2020-11-26 09:11:32 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230)
2020-11-26 09:11:35 +0100vg(~vg@139.59.59.230) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 09:11:38 +0100 <dminuoso> koz_: Haha, it took me a year to get why confusing was called confusing
2020-11-26 09:11:43 +0100 <dminuoso> Then it hit me
2020-11-26 09:12:00 +0100 <dminuoso> lens is filled with so many puns
2020-11-26 09:12:10 +0100 <koz_> Or, alternatively, Joker and Clown.
2020-11-26 09:12:17 +0100 <koz_> (that's actually a two-level reference)
2020-11-26 09:12:56 +0100 <dminuoso> Well if you dont know Stealers Wheels
2020-11-26 09:13:30 +0100 <dminuoso> The curious thing though is
2020-11-26 09:13:34 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t const fix
2020-11-26 09:13:34 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: b -> (a -> a) -> a
2020-11-26 09:13:36 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t fix
2020-11-26 09:13:37 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: (a -> a) -> a
2020-11-26 09:13:44 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@46.217.221.184) (Changing host)
2020-11-26 09:13:44 +0100Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-11-26 09:13:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Ah I guess `b ~ (a -> a) -> a`
2020-11-26 09:14:38 +0100cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-11-26 09:14:44 +0100 <jle`> fix (const x) = x
2020-11-26 09:14:50 +0100 <jle`> % fix (const "hello")
2020-11-26 09:14:50 +0100 <yahb> jle`: "hello"
2020-11-26 09:15:11 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t fix . const
2020-11-26 09:15:11 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: c -> c
2020-11-26 09:15:13 +0100 <dminuoso> There we go!
2020-11-26 09:15:20 +0100 <jle`> neato
2020-11-26 09:15:48 +0100 <jle`> % Prelude.map ($ 10) [unsafeCoerce, flip const unsafeCoerce, dimap id id id, const 10, fix . const]
2020-11-26 09:15:48 +0100 <yahb> jle`: [10,10,10,10,10]
2020-11-26 09:15:54 +0100dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@ptr-eitgbj2w0uu6delkbrh.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-11-26 09:16:10 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 09:16:19 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 09:16:20 +0100 <koz_> Procrastination a la #haskell.
2020-11-26 09:17:18 +0100 <aplainzetakind> I'm trying get a handle on conditional compilation with cabal flags by means of an over-architectured advent of code project: https://gist.github.com/aplainzetakind/ba5b0fa3af4ef7f3deec77c5e025b746 trying to build this, cabal tells me this module imports itself. Why does this happen? (Removing CPP and commenting out ifdefs works fine.)
2020-11-26 09:17:39 +0100 <jle`> woo hoo, over-architected advent of code projects
2020-11-26 09:18:18 +0100 <jophish> No semigroup instance for Product :(
2020-11-26 09:18:24 +0100 <jophish> (Data.Functor.Product.Product)
2020-11-26 09:18:29 +0100 <koz_> jle` is uniquely qualified to talk about this!
2020-11-26 09:18:34 +0100 <koz_> jophish: I think you want a different Product.
2020-11-26 09:18:45 +0100 <jophish> koz_: I do?
2020-11-26 09:18:52 +0100 <jophish> thank you
2020-11-26 09:19:07 +0100 <koz_> jophish: I _assume_ you're after the monoid (*, 1)?
2020-11-26 09:19:28 +0100 <jophish> nope, in fact I'm quite sure that one has a semigroup instance!!!
2020-11-26 09:19:41 +0100 <dminuoso> What would the implementation be?
2020-11-26 09:19:45 +0100 <koz_> OK, well, I'm unsure what instance you're expecting this one to have.
2020-11-26 09:19:52 +0100 <jophish> Pair a1 b1 <> Pair a2 b2 = Pair (a1 <> a2) (b1 <> b2)
2020-11-26 09:20:03 +0100 <jle`> Pair x1 y1 <> Pair x2 y2 = Pair (x1 <> x2) (y1 <> y2)
2020-11-26 09:20:09 +0100 <jle`> ah beat me to it
2020-11-26 09:20:13 +0100 <koz_> Jinx!
2020-11-26 09:20:15 +0100 <jophish> you typed it very fast!
2020-11-26 09:20:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Probably forgotten then? Make a merge request .
2020-11-26 09:20:49 +0100 <jle`> yeah, there should really be one
2020-11-26 09:21:09 +0100 <dminuoso> (MonadZip f, MonadZip g) => MonadZip (Product f g)
2020-11-26 09:21:32 +0100 <jle`> i think there is the approriate Alt instance
2020-11-26 09:21:33 +0100koz_wishes it was ApplicativeZip
2020-11-26 09:21:55 +0100 <dminuoso> Together with ApplicativeComprehensions?
2020-11-26 09:22:31 +0100 <koz_> dminuoso: This.
2020-11-26 09:22:40 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 09:23:10 +0100 <jle`> jophish: if it matches the specific behavior you want, you can try using Ap as a wrapper
2020-11-26 09:23:36 +0100 <dminuoso> koz_: To be fair, I recently started longing for caseS
2020-11-26 09:23:45 +0100 <dminuoso> Which I think fits in that hole
2020-11-26 09:23:53 +0100 <koz_> caseS?
2020-11-26 09:24:03 +0100 <dminuoso> selective case-of
2020-11-26 09:24:13 +0100 <koz_> dminuoso: I don't follow, sorry.
2020-11-26 09:24:28 +0100 <dminuoso> koz_: a selective functor equivalent for do-notation
2020-11-26 09:25:28 +0100 <koz_> Wait, that's a thing?
2020-11-26 09:25:32 +0100 <dminuoso> No
2020-11-26 09:25:33 +0100 <dminuoso> branch :: Selective f => f (Either a b) -> f (a -> c) -> f (b -> c) -> f c
2020-11-26 09:25:48 +0100 <dminuoso> So sort of cross between `branch` and `case-of`
2020-11-26 09:26:29 +0100 <dminuoso> https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/7acab978112cc0f0a7f0288bd87d3378 you can write this currently
2020-11-26 09:26:57 +0100 <koz_> Huh, interesting.
2020-11-26 09:27:35 +0100 <dminuoso> But it only works for a+b and its hard to composable
2020-11-26 09:27:44 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 09:28:20 +0100 <koz_> How would you generalize that beyond Either though?
2020-11-26 09:28:23 +0100michalz(~user@185.246.204.47)
2020-11-26 09:28:25 +0100 <koz_> I don't think you can really.
2020-11-26 09:28:45 +0100monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 09:29:20 +0100 <dminuoso> I think you could write a version of `branch` that works with generics
2020-11-26 09:29:47 +0100 <dminuoso> over arbitrary sum types
2020-11-26 09:30:20 +0100 <koz_> gbranch
2020-11-26 09:30:32 +0100borne(~fritjof@200116b864b8bd00394a967dc8ef4e61.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 09:30:40 +0100Fractalis(~Fractalis@2601:987:280:8d40:eda9:f9e1:2072:cea7)
2020-11-26 09:30:47 +0100geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-11-26 09:32:23 +0100 <jophish> jle`: you think I'm made of Applicative instances?!
2020-11-26 09:33:18 +0100Fractalis(~Fractalis@2601:987:280:8d40:eda9:f9e1:2072:cea7) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 09:33:29 +0100 <n0042> =$
2020-11-26 09:34:21 +0100 <koz_> jophish: I sure am.
2020-11-26 09:37:06 +0100 <jophish> :D
2020-11-26 09:38:52 +0100chele(~chele@ip5b416ea2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2020-11-26 09:44:01 +0100hackagetypson-esqueleto 0.1.0.0 - Typson Esqueleto Integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-esqueleto-0.1.0.0 (aaronallen8455)
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2020-11-26 10:07:35 +0100Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2020-11-26 10:10:29 +0100bifunc2(bifunc2@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/bifunc2)
2020-11-26 10:11:07 +0100 <bifunc2> What are some popular ways to create fixed-length containers, where the length is fixed in the type?
2020-11-26 10:11:10 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 10:12:07 +0100 <dminuoso> There really aren't any.
2020-11-26 10:12:11 +0100 <[exa]> bifunc2: like this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/fixed-vector
2020-11-26 10:12:33 +0100 <dminuoso> (By that I mean they aren't very popular)
2020-11-26 10:12:43 +0100 <[exa]> yeah that's very true
2020-11-26 10:12:54 +0100 <bifunc2> why are they not popular?
2020-11-26 10:13:13 +0100 <bifunc2> btw is this related to dependent types? i heard dependent types are not yet in haskell, at all
2020-11-26 10:13:15 +0100 <[exa]> once you get the sizes into the typesystem, everyone starts to demand more "smart" operations from it, and you end up requiring dependent types
2020-11-26 10:13:17 +0100 <dminuoso> This takes you straight into dependent typing
2020-11-26 10:13:18 +0100 <[exa]> which is hard
2020-11-26 10:14:28 +0100 <bifunc2> ok maybe it's best for now to assert equal lengths at runtime
2020-11-26 10:15:33 +0100 <[exa]> bifunc2: making runtime fail as soon as possible on detected error usually gives a good assurance that the handling is right, esp. if you have at least a single automated integration test
2020-11-26 10:16:21 +0100dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin)
2020-11-26 10:17:38 +0100 <[exa]> the other approach is to write the code so that the error is not representable, e.g. make a tiny layer that always handles the sizes right™ and build upon it
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2020-11-26 10:50:12 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Yes there are, sized Vector :)
2020-11-26 10:50:30 +0100 <merijn> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-sized is pretty great
2020-11-26 10:52:52 +0100 <dminuoso> https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse/vector-sized
2020-11-26 10:52:54 +0100 <dminuoso> yes, very popular.
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2020-11-26 10:52:55 +0100michalz(~user@185.246.204.61)
2020-11-26 10:55:21 +0100tsrt^(tsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net) ()
2020-11-26 10:56:00 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 10:56:19 +0100michalz(~user@185.246.204.61) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 10:57:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Also, vector-sized has a very defty dependency footprint
2020-11-26 10:57:59 +0100 <dminuoso> Since it pulls in adjunctions
2020-11-26 10:58:59 +0100exlipse(~exlipse@4e69b241.skybroadband.com)
2020-11-26 10:59:05 +0100 <dminuoso> And that gives you half the kmettiverse
2020-11-26 10:59:28 +0100 <dminuoso> Anyway. They asked for "popular" not "great"
2020-11-26 11:00:49 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 11:01:25 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: packdeps only lists stuff on hackage, though
2020-11-26 11:01:34 +0100 <merijn> I use it in a bunch of code that's not on hackage
2020-11-26 11:01:59 +0100monochrom(trebla@216.138.220.146)
2020-11-26 11:02:32 +0100 <dminuoso> Sure, but it's not like there's gonna be incredible widespread usage of a package everywhere except hackage
2020-11-26 11:02:47 +0100 <dminuoso> Think it's a good indicator to answer "popularity"
2020-11-26 11:03:21 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01cb09b06b29ea391191835a81a7a2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2020-11-26 11:39:30 +0100hackagehspec-slow 0.2.0.1 - Find slow test cases https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hspec-slow-0.2.0.1 (Jappie)
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2020-11-26 12:01:33 +0100BugzOOONeuromancer
2020-11-26 12:03:29 +0100 <boxscape> Hm, the `data X = forall a . MkX (Y a)` encoding is usually preferred for existentials over the `forall r . (forall a . Y a -> r) -> r` encoding, right? I'm asking because I just wrote something fairly simple where the first one seems more verbose, but I guess maybe it becomes easier to keep track of things with the first encoding as your what
2020-11-26 12:03:30 +0100 <boxscape> you're doing gets more complex?
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2020-11-26 12:11:45 +0100 <merijn> boxscape: I usually prefer writing existentials as GADTs, because it looks cleaner
2020-11-26 12:12:17 +0100 <boxscape> merijn so that would be effectively the same as the first encoding but with GADT syntax?
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2020-11-26 12:18:31 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-constraints 0.4.0.0 - Constraints to filter the needed permutations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-constraints-0.4.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 12:19:31 +0100hackagepostgresql-binary 0.12.3.2 - Encoders and decoders for the PostgreSQL's binary format https://hackage.haskell.org/package/postgresql-binary-0.12.3.2 (NikitaVolkov)
2020-11-26 12:20:22 +0100 <tomsmeding> boxscape: you can convert the existentials method to the CPS method, but not the other way round
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2020-11-26 12:20:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> that is to say: given a function that returns an existential with the X method, you can use it in a context that uses the Y method for existentials
2020-11-26 12:21:01 +0100hackagepostgresql-binary 0.12.3.3 - Encoders and decoders for the PostgreSQL's binary format https://hackage.haskell.org/package/postgresql-binary-0.12.3.3 (NikitaVolkov)
2020-11-26 12:21:12 +0100 <tomsmeding> but if you have a function in CPS form using Y, then you can't use it in a function that wants to return an X-style existential
2020-11-26 12:21:19 +0100 <tomsmeding> at least, that's my experience :p
2020-11-26 12:21:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> which makes me prefer X, despite its additional verbosity
2020-11-26 12:21:43 +0100 <boxscape> hm, I see, interesting
2020-11-26 12:21:53 +0100 <dminuoso> I guess CPS style fuses better?
2020-11-26 12:22:39 +0100 <dminuoso> Also it's a little less annoying if you pass things around, since you dont need to constantly wrap/rewrap your thing
2020-11-26 12:23:29 +0100 <boxscape> yeah, that makes sense
2020-11-26 12:24:45 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234)
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2020-11-26 12:26:06 +0100 <dminuoso> 12:21:12 tomsmeding | but if you have a function in CPS form using Y, then you can't use it in a function that wants to return an X-style existential
2020-11-26 12:26:09 +0100 <dminuoso> Can you elaborate?
2020-11-26 12:26:23 +0100jpds(~jpds@gateway/tor-sasl/jpds)
2020-11-26 12:27:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> I haven't proven anything, just what I empirically found
2020-11-26 12:27:05 +0100 <dminuoso> If you have `f :: forall r. (forall a . Y a -> r) -> r; then you can just do `f MkX` to get back into the X representation
2020-11-26 12:27:07 +0100 <dminuoso> No?
2020-11-26 12:27:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> wait
2020-11-26 12:27:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> I'm dumb
2020-11-26 12:27:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> yes
2020-11-26 12:27:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> thank you
2020-11-26 12:27:55 +0100 <boxscape> oh yeah that does work
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2020-11-26 12:38:29 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@169.244.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2020-11-26 12:39:17 +0100 <bifunc2> [exa] vector-sized library seems to be working like magic
2020-11-26 12:39:33 +0100 <bifunc2> so if all i need are fixed length vectors, this seems like the library to use
2020-11-26 12:39:38 +0100 <bifunc2> seems quite popular too
2020-11-26 12:40:03 +0100 <bifunc2> i no longer see a reason to use normal vector and do runtime asserts
2020-11-26 12:40:38 +0100 <dminuoso> "quite popular" according to which metric?
2020-11-26 12:40:48 +0100 <dminuoso> Anyway, popularity is not necessarily an indicator of quality
2020-11-26 12:40:57 +0100 <dminuoso> An unpopular library can be of high quality, and popular libraries can be of low quality
2020-11-26 12:41:03 +0100 <maerwald> 14k downloads
2020-11-26 12:41:14 +0100 <dminuoso> That can easily mean it's a transitive dependency of some popular package
2020-11-26 12:41:21 +0100 <maerwald> yes, that means the lib is popular
2020-11-26 12:41:30 +0100 <dminuoso> Depends on how you look at it
2020-11-26 12:41:51 +0100kindaro(1f08e49d@h31-8-228-157.dyn.bashtel.ru)
2020-11-26 12:41:58 +0100 <maerwald> it isn't all that complicated
2020-11-26 12:42:01 +0100 <dminuoso> If a single popular package has vector-sized as a *transitive* dependency, is vector-sized popular?
2020-11-26 12:42:04 +0100 <dminuoso> hard to say
2020-11-26 12:42:13 +0100jeffcasavant[m](jeffcasava@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rmfoljfsgzwwaqzw)
2020-11-26 12:42:25 +0100 <dminuoso> Id say popularity means a lot of people use your package as a direct dependency
2020-11-26 12:42:27 +0100 <dminuoso> not transitive
2020-11-26 12:42:46 +0100 <kindaro> Is there a file in `~/.cabal` that contains the list of all versions of all installed packages?
2020-11-26 12:43:04 +0100 <dminuoso> Most people dont use ghc-prim, but everyone has it in their dependency tree. Is it a popular library?
2020-11-26 12:43:05 +0100 <kindaro> Or, should I say, stored packages.
2020-11-26 12:43:26 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 12:43:43 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: 14k downloads is a pretty good indicator of popularity. If you think it isn't, you should probably bring up proof :)
2020-11-26 12:44:12 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: https://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse/vector-sized
2020-11-26 12:44:27 +0100 <maerwald> packdeps isn't exhaustive
2020-11-26 12:44:28 +0100 <dminuoso> 14 packages on hackage depend on it
2020-11-26 12:44:30 +0100 <dminuoso> out of tha
2020-11-26 12:44:32 +0100 <dminuoso> I only recognize 1.
2020-11-26 12:44:39 +0100 <dminuoso> On the entire of hackage, only one package I recognize depends on it.
2020-11-26 12:44:49 +0100 <dminuoso> That in my book makes it a very unpopular library
2020-11-26 12:45:06 +0100plakband(~plakband@113x43x242x146.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net)
2020-11-26 12:45:06 +0100 <dminuoso> Of course its not exhaustive, its an indicator.
2020-11-26 12:45:13 +0100 <dminuoso> But one that better represents popularity
2020-11-26 12:46:02 +0100 <maerwald> servant-client just has 100 reverse deps, the other 10k it doesn't show :D
2020-11-26 12:46:14 +0100 <maerwald> downloads are much more reliable metric
2020-11-26 12:46:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Hard to say
2020-11-26 12:46:26 +0100 <bifunc2> i don't have any great definition of this, my friend :) i just looked at https://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector-sized-1.4.2 and saw 100 d/ls in last 30 days. more than most libraries :P
2020-11-26 12:46:33 +0100 <bifunc2> s/this/popular
2020-11-26 12:46:41 +0100 <[exa]> bifunc2: that may be automated downloads :D
2020-11-26 12:47:04 +0100 <[exa]> one of my R libs has 400 installs per month but I'm fairly sure it has precisely 10 users.
2020-11-26 12:47:11 +0100 <maerwald> [exa]: that even out for all of hackage (automated downloads)
2020-11-26 12:47:22 +0100 <maerwald> so it's not a particularly strong argument
2020-11-26 12:47:23 +0100 <boxscape> hm looks like vector-sized uses CPS-style existentials
2020-11-26 12:47:39 +0100 <dminuoso> 12:46:02 maerwald | servant-client just has 100 reverse deps, the other 10k it doesn't show :D
2020-11-26 12:47:43 +0100 <kindaro> How can I list all packages and versions available in Cabal store?
2020-11-26 12:47:51 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: I guess the difference is servant-client is very likley to have users who do not share their product on hackage
2020-11-26 12:48:04 +0100 <maerwald> why is that a *difference*?
2020-11-26 12:48:18 +0100 <dminuoso> a container library can be reasonably expected to be used by other liraries
2020-11-26 12:48:37 +0100 <dminuoso> its not just executables that need vectors
2020-11-26 12:48:51 +0100 <dminuoso> kindaro: find.
2020-11-26 12:49:18 +0100 <[exa]> maerwald: yeah just wanted to point out that the number may be biased
2020-11-26 12:49:18 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: servant-client is not an executable :D
2020-11-26 12:49:28 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: No, but it likely is used by executables
2020-11-26 12:49:40 +0100 <dminuoso> There's relatively little API wrappers on hackage
2020-11-26 12:49:53 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: look at the reverse deps and you'll see lots of libraries :)
2020-11-26 12:49:58 +0100fendor(~fendor@178.165.131.166.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-11-26 12:50:15 +0100 <maerwald> so this seems more like an assumption rather than an observation
2020-11-26 12:50:19 +0100 <dminuoso> You just switched your argument
2020-11-26 12:50:26 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: Your point was "servant-client just has 100 reverse deps, the other 10k it doesn't show"
2020-11-26 12:50:47 +0100 <maerwald> yes, I didn't make any assumptions of what the users are
2020-11-26 12:51:10 +0100dminuosois too tired for this
2020-11-26 12:52:02 +0100jonatanb(jonatanb@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/jonatanb) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 12:52:13 +0100kindaro(1f08e49d@h31-8-228-157.dyn.bashtel.ru) ()
2020-11-26 12:52:30 +0100 <maerwald> (and I wrote a library that uses servant-client as a library)
2020-11-26 12:54:23 +0100iinuwa(iinuwamatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xphebgqwlqcseskv)
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2020-11-26 13:00:00 +0100AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2020-11-26 13:01:47 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-11-26 13:05:06 +0100m0rphism(~m0rphism@HSI-KBW-095-208-098-207.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
2020-11-26 13:05:33 +0100 <hc> i can confirm that it is ;p
2020-11-26 13:05:46 +0100 <hc> nvm, wrong channel
2020-11-26 13:06:56 +0100 <Uniaika> :O
2020-11-26 13:07:11 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-27-55-91-168.revip3.asianet.co.th)
2020-11-26 13:08:44 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 13:09:22 +0100 <ski> boxscape : if you just want to pass it on to the caller, which is likely to unwrap, then the CPS encoding is probably better. if you want to store it in some data structure, then the "existential data constructor" encoding is probably better
2020-11-26 13:10:15 +0100 <boxscape> I see
2020-11-26 13:10:16 +0100 <boxscape> thanks
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2020-11-26 13:12:44 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
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2020-11-26 13:18:51 +0100 <dminuoso> And, given that you can convert freely between them, nothing stops you from just switching between the representations
2020-11-26 13:19:35 +0100 <boxscape> right, that makes sense
2020-11-26 13:20:09 +0100olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2020-11-26 13:22:46 +0100 <dminuoso> Question, does anyone else favor case-of over maybe? I find myself never favoring `maybe`
2020-11-26 13:23:00 +0100 <dminuoso> (Or fromMaybe)
2020-11-26 13:24:55 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 13:25:50 +0100 <boxscape> depends on how complex the expressions are; something simple like `maybe False (>0)` I wouldn't write with case-of, typically
2020-11-26 13:27:10 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: I also prefer case of
2020-11-26 13:27:25 +0100 <maerwald> maybe and friends are for cases where I know ahead of time what I'm gonna type
2020-11-26 13:27:58 +0100 <dminuoso> What do you mean by "where I know ahead of time what I'm gonna type"?
2020-11-26 13:28:34 +0100 <maerwald> Usually I don't know what I'm doing, is what I'm saying. So I pattern match on something and then switch stuff back and forth. That's more "linear" than doing complicated expressions
2020-11-26 13:29:07 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234)
2020-11-26 13:29:35 +0100alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:612f:aa9c:8a4e:4f35)
2020-11-26 13:29:44 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it)
2020-11-26 13:30:03 +0100 <maerwald> that's also the reasons I prefer lambdas as argument to fmap etc instead of writing pointfree function arguments
2020-11-26 13:30:56 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Quit: Leaving)
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2020-11-26 13:31:13 +0100 <n0042> lambdas are nice
2020-11-26 13:31:32 +0100shah^(shah@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
2020-11-26 13:31:56 +0100 <maerwald> n0042: I had a tech challenge where they told me they don't like it, because I'm not using pointfree style enough and that wouldn't be "senior haskell"
2020-11-26 13:32:01 +0100 <maerwald> dodged a bullet :D
2020-11-26 13:32:09 +0100 <boxscape> oh no
2020-11-26 13:32:18 +0100Entertainment(~entertain@104.246.132.210)
2020-11-26 13:32:38 +0100 <opqdonut> :D
2020-11-26 13:32:55 +0100 <boxscape> @pl \d ogde a bullet -> a bullet d odge d
2020-11-26 13:32:55 +0100 <lambdabot> const . (flip =<< (flip .) . flip flip odge . (flip .) . flip flip)
2020-11-26 13:33:26 +0100 <maerwald> right, run your code through that before handing in your tech challenge :D
2020-11-26 13:33:37 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 13:34:38 +0100 <boxscape> In my company we only accept challenges written in umlambda
2020-11-26 13:34:54 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzqgkxnkzvzsvgqp)
2020-11-26 13:34:58 +0100 <opqdonut> boxscape: :D
2020-11-26 13:34:58 +0100 <boxscape> erm
2020-11-26 13:34:59 +0100 <boxscape> unlambda
2020-11-26 13:37:09 +0100plakband(~plakband@113x43x242x146.ap113.ftth.arteria-hikari.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 13:38:17 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: Next time just introduce a random `fix . const` in the challenge.
2020-11-26 13:38:30 +0100 <maerwald> omg, such senior
2020-11-26 13:38:34 +0100 <dminuoso> ;)
2020-11-26 13:39:20 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234)
2020-11-26 13:39:41 +0100 <dminuoso> Obligatory https://aphyr.com/posts/342-typing-the-technical-interview
2020-11-26 13:39:49 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 13:39:52 +0100 <boxscape> was just thinking of that
2020-11-26 13:40:03 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 13:40:31 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@113.87.161.66) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-26 13:40:36 +0100 <maerwald> that post made some ppl believe haskell is dynamically typed (I'm not joking)
2020-11-26 13:41:01 +0100 <boxscape> oh no
2020-11-26 13:41:54 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul)
2020-11-26 13:42:24 +0100da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:7ef3:25b7:f5b5:a852:f5c4) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-26 13:43:00 +0100hackagedeferred-folds 0.9.13 - Abstractions over deferred folds https://hackage.haskell.org/package/deferred-folds-0.9.13 (NikitaVolkov)
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2020-11-26 13:44:18 +0100 <n0042> That is a pretty funny page lol
2020-11-26 13:51:44 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
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2020-11-26 13:57:50 +0100_ashbreeze_(~mark@72-161-253-71.dyn.centurytel.net)
2020-11-26 13:57:51 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 14:04:10 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 14:04:11 +0100sord937(~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
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2020-11-26 14:06:03 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-11-26 14:07:00 +0100 <maerwald> is there an easy way to figure out if a given function *actually* makes use of constraints other than satisfying types?
2020-11-26 14:07:07 +0100da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:7ef3:25b7:f5b5:a852:f5c4)
2020-11-26 14:07:20 +0100 <maerwald> (like: calling a class function)
2020-11-26 14:07:43 +0100 <maerwald> (which then could warrant a redesign of the types/constraints)
2020-11-26 14:08:09 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b8069e6000fcea7cbd95660e31.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
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2020-11-26 14:14:00 +0100hackageheadroom 0.3.2.0 - License Header Manager https://hackage.haskell.org/package/headroom-0.3.2.0 (xwinus)
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2020-11-26 14:54:16 +0100aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-11-26 14:55:24 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.88.97.75)
2020-11-26 14:55:45 +0100fendor(~fendor@078132052150.public.t-mobile.at) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 14:56:06 +0100jk1006(~jk1006@193.16.224.0)
2020-11-26 14:59:25 +0100jk1006(~jk1006@193.16.224.0) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 15:01:05 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: Mmm, it shoulds like a diagnostic that fits into GHC
2020-11-26 15:01:07 +0100 <dminuoso> *sounds
2020-11-26 15:01:15 +0100solonarv(~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-191-240.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-11-26 15:01:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Some sort of warn-unused-constraints
2020-11-26 15:01:56 +0100 <dminuoso> I dont know the implementation details of the type checker, it doesn't seem impossible in principle to track which constraints you used to discharge other obligations
2020-11-26 15:02:28 +0100f-a(~f-a@151.46.85.195) ()
2020-11-26 15:02:44 +0100Iceland_jack(~user@31.124.48.169)
2020-11-26 15:03:50 +0100solonarv(~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-191-240.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-11-26 15:06:41 +0100bgamari_(~bgamari@72.65.104.220)
2020-11-26 15:07:22 +0100bgamari(~bgamari@2001:470:e438::1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 15:10:30 +0100hackagedeferred-folds 0.9.14 - Abstractions over deferred folds https://hackage.haskell.org/package/deferred-folds-0.9.14 (NikitaVolkov)
2020-11-26 15:13:00 +0100hackagelsp 1.0.0.1 - Haskell library for the Microsoft Language Server Protocol https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lsp-1.0.0.1 (luke_)
2020-11-26 15:13:53 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net)
2020-11-26 15:14:40 +0100sondr3(~sondr3@cm-84.211.56.132.getinternet.no)
2020-11-26 15:19:02 +0100hekkaidekapus_(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus) (Quit: hekkaidekapus_)
2020-11-26 15:21:06 +0100hekkaidekapus(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
2020-11-26 15:21:44 +0100 <dminuoso> maerwald: Anyway, interesting. If I dont case-of, I usually have some `note` function instead.
2020-11-26 15:22:25 +0100 <dminuoso> Or I move it into pattern matching on separate functions, where I might have `fooEither (Left ...) = ...; fooEither (Right ...) = ...'` and use that as a continuation
2020-11-26 15:22:38 +0100 <dminuoso> But either/maybe seems just strange to me for some reason I cant explain
2020-11-26 15:22:58 +0100 <boxscape> do you use foldr?
2020-11-26 15:23:57 +0100 <dminuoso> sure
2020-11-26 15:24:02 +0100 <boxscape> hm
2020-11-26 15:24:44 +0100 <boxscape> So an aversion to Church encodings of non-recursive types but not to those of recursive types, to overly extrapolate
2020-11-26 15:24:56 +0100 <dminuoso> Yes, very much.
2020-11-26 15:26:51 +0100jonatanb_(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 15:27:14 +0100 <dminuoso> The non-recursive types encode a choice, list does not
2020-11-26 15:27:34 +0100 <dminuoso> Or I guess that depends on the perspective
2020-11-26 15:28:10 +0100 <dminuoso> since a list could be `n + (n^2) + (n^3) + (n^4) + ....`
2020-11-26 15:28:36 +0100 <dminuoso> Maybe it's just that to me it's not clear which side of `maybe` does what
2020-11-26 15:28:51 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps I also just lack the intuition because I dont use it
2020-11-26 15:28:58 +0100 <c_wraith> doesn't the type tell you?
2020-11-26 15:29:08 +0100 <maerwald> dminuoso: if I convert a maybe to some other type (e.g. Either), I find maybe to be quite idiomatic... but I can't stand fromMaybe
2020-11-26 15:29:11 +0100 <c_wraith> :t maybe
2020-11-26 15:29:12 +0100 <lambdabot> b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b
2020-11-26 15:29:31 +0100 <c_wraith> there's only one case either of those arguments can apply in.
2020-11-26 15:29:49 +0100 <dminuoso> c_wraith: Sure, but when you look at `maybe foo bar h`, then it's just not obvious to me
2020-11-26 15:29:57 +0100 <c_wraith> Now, I understand that complaint about bool....
2020-11-26 15:30:05 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm
2020-11-26 15:30:25 +0100 <maerwald> I always mix up second and third parameter of foldr/foldl :p
2020-11-26 15:30:30 +0100 <hpc> dminuoso: there's a way to remember it as a specific instance of a more general thing
2020-11-26 15:30:38 +0100 <hpc> data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a
2020-11-26 15:30:46 +0100 <hpc> the parameters for maybe go in the same order as the data definition
2020-11-26 15:30:53 +0100 <dminuoso> hpc: Sure, the first constructor comes first. But that requires memorizing the data definition
2020-11-26 15:30:54 +0100 <hpc> same for foldr, they go in the same order
2020-11-26 15:31:11 +0100 <hpc> dminuoso: the smallest constructor is first
2020-11-26 15:31:30 +0100 <hpc> (for deriving Ord and such)
2020-11-26 15:31:32 +0100 <dminuoso> hpc: so what about These?
2020-11-26 15:31:39 +0100fendor(~fendor@77.119.130.234.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-11-26 15:31:40 +0100 <dminuoso> What type signature would `these` have?
2020-11-26 15:32:10 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.217.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 15:32:17 +0100 <dminuoso> these :: (a -> d) -> (b -> d) -> (a -> b -> d) -> These a b -> d
2020-11-26 15:32:18 +0100 <c_wraith> intuition says: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> (a -> b -> c) -> These a b -> c
2020-11-26 15:32:21 +0100 <dminuoso> these :: (b -> d) -> (a -> d) -> (a -> b -> d) -> These a b -> d
2020-11-26 15:32:41 +0100 <dminuoso> According to your definition, Id have to look up the definition of These, and I couldnt infer it from the size
2020-11-26 15:32:42 +0100 <maerwald> easy: this, that, these
2020-11-26 15:32:44 +0100 <maerwald> xD
2020-11-26 15:33:24 +0100 <hpc> it derives Ord so you can check in ghci
2020-11-26 15:33:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Well if I have to look it up, I might as well just check hoogle
2020-11-26 15:33:46 +0100 <boxscape> % :i These
2020-11-26 15:33:47 +0100 <yahb> boxscape: ; <interactive>:1:1: error: Not in scope: `These'
2020-11-26 15:33:52 +0100 <boxscape> :/
2020-11-26 15:34:00 +0100 <dminuoso> % import Data.Strict.These
2020-11-26 15:34:00 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <no location info>: error:; Could not find module `Data.Strict.These'; It is not a module in the current program, or in any known package.
2020-11-26 15:34:08 +0100 <dminuoso> % import Data.Functor.These
2020-11-26 15:34:08 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: ; <no location info>: error:; Could not find module `Data.Functor.These'; Perhaps you meant; Data.Functor.Base (from recursion-schemes-5.1.3); Data.Functor.Const (from base-4.14.0.0); Data.Functor.Plus (from semigroupoids-5.3.4)
2020-11-26 15:34:42 +0100 <dminuoso> hpc: I get your point, Im not saying its not discoverable, Im just suggesting that from just staring at its usage, it might not be obvious
2020-11-26 15:34:48 +0100 <hpc> sometimes
2020-11-26 15:34:54 +0100 <dminuoso> But arguably the same could be said about `foldr`
2020-11-26 15:35:01 +0100 <c_wraith> and every function
2020-11-26 15:35:01 +0100 <hpc> but then for example, how would you write a fold over a tree?
2020-11-26 15:35:08 +0100 <dminuoso> hpc: easy! foldMap!
2020-11-26 15:35:12 +0100 <dminuoso> ;)
2020-11-26 15:35:15 +0100 <hpc> heh
2020-11-26 15:36:39 +0100 <hpc> but yeah, if you know the structure it's pretty easy, foldTree leaf branch Leaf = leaf; foldTree leaf branch (Branch value left right) = branch value (foldTree left) (foldTree right)
2020-11-26 15:36:57 +0100 <hpc> or something similar depending on what type of tree you're dealing with
2020-11-26 15:38:50 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2020-11-26 15:38:51 +0100 <hpc> i wonder if there's anything that writes these functions automatically
2020-11-26 15:38:54 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntgjmwmudxzzxssg)
2020-11-26 15:40:11 +0100 <c_wraith> recursion-schemes?
2020-11-26 15:40:26 +0100 <merijn> c_wraith: That's not automatic
2020-11-26 15:40:32 +0100 <c_wraith> it has TH
2020-11-26 15:40:34 +0100 <merijn> That's just "reusing handwritten ones"
2020-11-26 15:41:06 +0100 <c_wraith> every library is reusing something someone wrote by hand...
2020-11-26 15:42:19 +0100 <merijn> c_wraith: Right, but I meant as opposed to DeriveFunctor. I guess TH counts, but I didn't know recursion-schemes had that, because my brain doesn't like recursion schemes :p
2020-11-26 15:42:43 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 15:42:55 +0100 <c_wraith> And I don't like using TH. :P
2020-11-26 15:43:01 +0100dminuosolikes TH
2020-11-26 15:43:16 +0100 <c_wraith> I like *writing* it. But I don't like writing code that uses it.
2020-11-26 15:43:24 +0100 <merijn> I like TH, but they fucked up the specification
2020-11-26 15:43:31 +0100 <dminuoso> There is a specification?
2020-11-26 15:43:34 +0100 <dminuoso> :>
2020-11-26 15:43:40 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: My point
2020-11-26 15:44:03 +0100 <dminuoso> My main annoyance with TH is just one: staging restriction
2020-11-26 15:44:06 +0100 <merijn> TH should've had a clear "target" and "host" distinction for everything
2020-11-26 15:44:09 +0100 <hpc> hmm, that technically writes it but by way of free shennanigans
2020-11-26 15:44:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Having to fiddle with extra modules just to satisfy the staging restriction is sometimes frustrating
2020-11-26 15:44:36 +0100 <dminuoso> Especially because we cant have circular module references
2020-11-26 15:44:38 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Staging is annoying, but you can workaround it
2020-11-26 15:44:57 +0100 <hpc> like if i was using [] and had to pick between foldr and whatever recursion-schemes gives me, recursion-schemes would be harder to use
2020-11-26 15:45:07 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: In contrast to the lack of distinction between target/host which makes cross-compiled TH fundamentally impossible
2020-11-26 15:45:18 +0100 <dminuoso> merijn: cross compiling is not something I care about
2020-11-26 15:45:27 +0100 <merijn> (well, the Asterius guys seem to be attempting to fix/work around it via heroic amounts of work)
2020-11-26 15:45:29 +0100 <hpc> i just want to write data Foo ..., makeFold 'Foo, and get foo :: whatever -> Foo ... -> ...
2020-11-26 15:45:34 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Not *yet*
2020-11-26 15:45:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps
2020-11-26 15:45:53 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Compiling windows executables from linux/etc. would've been nice :p
2020-11-26 15:45:58 +0100 <dminuoso> Is that some reference to the dominion of ARM processors?
2020-11-26 15:46:00 +0100 <dminuoso> Oh
2020-11-26 15:46:05 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: ARM too
2020-11-26 15:46:32 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Everything is just slightly more inconvenient without cross-compilation
2020-11-26 15:47:04 +0100 <merijn> And proper cross-compilation support isn't even that hard. It's just a herculean task to retrofit cross-compilation support if you didn't engineer it in from the beginning
2020-11-26 15:47:50 +0100alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:612f:aa9c:8a4e:4f35) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2020-11-26 15:49:20 +0100darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.217.23)
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2020-11-26 15:57:58 +0100urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2020-11-26 15:58:35 +0100Yumasi(~guillaume@2a01:e0a:5cb:4430:5572:c108:3697:b06d)
2020-11-26 16:01:28 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 16:02:43 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.49.253.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-11-26 16:03:00 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 16:04:00 +0100hackagemigrant-core 0.1.0.1 - Semi-automatic database schema migrations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/migrant-core-0.1.0.1 (TobiasDammers)
2020-11-26 16:04:24 +0100eyenx(~eyenxeyen@unaffiliated/eye/x-1653358) (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM)
2020-11-26 16:06:31 +0100hackagemigrant-core 0.1.0.2 - Semi-automatic database schema migrations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/migrant-core-0.1.0.2 (TobiasDammers)
2020-11-26 16:07:00 +0100eyenx(~eyenxeyen@unaffiliated/eye/x-1653358)
2020-11-26 16:07:19 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@212.102.45.115)
2020-11-26 16:07:31 +0100hackagemigrant-sqlite-simple 0.1.0.2, migrant-postgresql-simple 0.1.0.2, migrant-hdbc 0.1.0.2 (TobiasDammers)
2020-11-26 16:07:36 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@212.102.45.115) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 16:07:39 +0100avdb(~avdb@ip-81-11-215-86.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-11-26 16:07:41 +0100 <avdb> Does ghc-mod still work in 2020?
2020-11-26 16:07:48 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 16:07:49 +0100 <avdb> I can't install it: https://dpaste.com/4D4N4GM7X
2020-11-26 16:07:59 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@212.102.45.115)
2020-11-26 16:09:29 +0100 <merijn> No
2020-11-26 16:09:39 +0100 <merijn> Development stopped, like, 2+ years ago
2020-11-26 16:09:47 +0100 <merijn> And the repo says it's deprecated as user tool
2020-11-26 16:09:54 +0100 <merijn> You want ghcide/haskell-language-server
2020-11-26 16:10:28 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 16:11:05 +0100 <avdb> Lol I found a 2020 blog post suggesting the usage of ghc-mod. Embarrassing.
2020-11-26 16:13:44 +0100 <merijn> heh
2020-11-26 16:13:45 +0100 <merijn> Where?
2020-11-26 16:13:49 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: cosimone)
2020-11-26 16:13:50 +0100geekosaur(ae68c070@cpe-174-104-192-112.neo.res.rr.com)
2020-11-26 16:14:31 +0100 <merijn> avdb: See the note here: https://github.com/DanielG/ghc-mod#legacy
2020-11-26 16:14:32 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b8069e6000fcea7cbd95660e31.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 16:15:12 +0100 <avdb> haskell-ide-engine has been archived as well -_-
2020-11-26 16:15:19 +0100 <avdb> Industry moves too fast
2020-11-26 16:15:20 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 16:15:29 +0100 <merijn> avdb: haskell-ide-engine merged with ghcide
2020-11-26 16:15:35 +0100da39a3ee5e6b4b0d(~da39a3ee5@2403:6200:8876:7ef3:25b7:f5b5:a852:f5c4) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-11-26 16:15:43 +0100 <merijn> avdb: haskell-language-server is basically the continuation of hie
2020-11-26 16:16:10 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2020-11-26 16:16:17 +0100bitmagie(~Thunderbi@200116b8069e6000fcea7cbd95660e31.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 16:16:17 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 16:16:27 +0100 <merijn> avdb: It's moving fast as of this year due to all the tooling projects finally converging on a single collaboration with actual people paid to work on it :p
2020-11-26 16:16:58 +0100 <merijn> Instead of being 10 independent, unmaintained personal hacks :p
2020-11-26 16:18:06 +0100 <avdb> True
2020-11-26 16:18:36 +0100 <avdb> Would you recommend hlint or ale?
2020-11-26 16:18:52 +0100 <avdb> Can't really choose, ale got a lot of forks is all I know
2020-11-26 16:20:01 +0100 <merijn> How are hlint and ale alternatives?
2020-11-26 16:20:17 +0100 <maerwald> ale *uses* hlint
2020-11-26 16:20:45 +0100 <maerwald> https://github.com/dense-analysis/ale/blob/master/ale_linters/haskell/hlint.vim
2020-11-26 16:21:04 +0100 <merijn> ALE is a plugin for asynchronously running linters/LSP servers, it doesn't actually "do" anything
2020-11-26 16:21:09 +0100andos(~dan@69-165-210-185.cable.teksavvy.com)
2020-11-26 16:21:47 +0100 <avdb> Oh oops
2020-11-26 16:21:56 +0100 <avdb> Do I still need the LSP if I use ale?
2020-11-26 16:22:25 +0100matta(~user@24-113-169-116.wavecable.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 16:22:29 +0100 <maerwald> good luck with LSP clients in vim
2020-11-26 16:22:37 +0100 <maerwald> I tried all and then I disabled it
2020-11-26 16:22:50 +0100 <maerwald> It makes my productivity worse
2020-11-26 16:23:12 +0100 <maerwald> Maybe other editors have a better experience, I don't know
2020-11-26 16:23:23 +0100 <merijn> maerwald: ALE *is* an LSP client
2020-11-26 16:23:27 +0100 <maerwald> yes
2020-11-26 16:23:35 +0100 <merijn> avdb: ALE is working fine for me, tbh
2020-11-26 16:23:56 +0100hexfive(~hexfive@50-47-142-195.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net) (Quit: i must go. my people need me.)
2020-11-26 16:24:00 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists 0.1.2.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-properties package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists-0.1.2.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 16:26:26 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 16:27:03 +0100 <dminuoso> Is there a newtype wrapper for reverse Ord?
2020-11-26 16:27:40 +0100 <dminuoso> I just want to do something like `sortOn (Reverse . fst)`
2020-11-26 16:27:52 +0100 <geekosaur> Down?
2020-11-26 16:28:10 +0100 <dminuoso> geekosaur: Ah cheers!
2020-11-26 16:30:35 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-11-26 16:32:23 +0100louisac(4d64ab42@cpc82915-enfi22-2-0-cust65.20-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-11-26 16:32:48 +0100Linoleum(~Linoleum@185.103.96.147) ()
2020-11-26 16:33:02 +0100kelsey(~keteskyl@2600:6c64:7b7f:fa42:880b:e2d1:945a:df75)
2020-11-26 16:34:07 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-27-55-91-168.revip3.asianet.co.th)
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2020-11-26 16:36:12 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 16:39:07 +0100 <texasmynsted> Morning
2020-11-26 16:40:56 +0100matta(~user@24-113-169-116.wavecable.com)
2020-11-26 16:41:18 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz)
2020-11-26 16:41:45 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234)
2020-11-26 16:44:20 +0100plutoniix(~q@ppp-27-55-91-168.revip3.asianet.co.th) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 16:47:15 +0100gproto23(~gproto23@unaffiliated/gproto23)
2020-11-26 16:47:25 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 16:47:59 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.184.39)
2020-11-26 16:48:00 +0100grabz0r(~grabz0r@90-145-165-196.bbserv.nl)
2020-11-26 16:48:48 +0100 <n0042> Morning to you as well
2020-11-26 16:48:53 +0100 <n0042> Happy thanksgiving!
2020-11-26 16:50:05 +0100larou(5eae2591@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.94.174.37.145)
2020-11-26 16:50:27 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c5800d512095bbf5d3f0d.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 16:52:56 +0100 <maerwald> :t Down
2020-11-26 16:52:56 +0100SanchayanMaity(~Sanchayan@171.76.82.54) (Quit: SanchayanMaity)
2020-11-26 16:52:58 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> Down a
2020-11-26 16:53:18 +0100 <maerwald> :t Up
2020-11-26 16:53:20 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2020-11-26 16:53:20 +0100 <lambdabot> • Data constructor not in scope: Up
2020-11-26 16:53:20 +0100 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant one of these:
2020-11-26 16:53:42 +0100 <maerwald> only going down, how depressing
2020-11-26 16:53:59 +0100adm_(~adm@43.229.89.234) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 16:54:13 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117)
2020-11-26 16:55:06 +0100 <dminuoso> Would it help if Down was renamed to Depress?
2020-11-26 16:55:08 +0100Sheilong(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzqgkxnkzvzsvgqp) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-11-26 16:55:29 +0100 <hc> lol
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2020-11-26 17:20:38 +0100 <zfnmxt> I'm having some trouble with type families and ambiguous variables during type inference: https://www.pastery.net/gfxvnp/
2020-11-26 17:20:52 +0100Iceland_jack(~user@31.124.48.169) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-11-26 17:21:40 +0100 <zfnmxt> I don't know how to constraint things further so that b0 can be resolved.
2020-11-26 17:21:55 +0100geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-11-26 17:22:00 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists 0.1.3.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-properties package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists-0.1.3.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 17:22:02 +0100 <zfnmxt> s/constraint/constrain
2020-11-26 17:25:09 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt have you tried supplying b to left with -XTypeApplications?
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2020-11-26 17:39:32 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: Did you mean something like this? https://www.pastery.net/gfxvnp+sjqkje/#sjqkje
2020-11-26 17:40:00 +0100hackagereflex-dom-retractable 0.1.7.0 - Routing and retractable back button for reflex-dom https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflex-dom-retractable-0.1.7.0 (NCrashed)
2020-11-26 17:43:00 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 17:43:00 +0100hackagereflex-localize 1.0.1.0 - Localization library for reflex https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflex-localize-1.0.1.0 (NCrashed)
2020-11-26 17:43:32 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt is Func a type family?
2020-11-26 17:43:59 +0100 <boxscape> or a type?
2020-11-26 17:45:16 +0100raichoo(~raichoo@dslb-092-073-219-149.092.073.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-11-26 17:45:35 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: It's a GADT: https://github.com/aleatory-science/frechet-dsl/blob/c7185e3aa1894e2cf3f45be4ee7506b5ad695a7d/src/…
2020-11-26 17:46:07 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt is that a private repository? I'm getting a 404
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2020-11-26 17:46:47 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2020-11-26 17:47:02 +0100 <zfnmxt> Ah, crap. Forgot about that. Here's the relevant line: https://www.pastery.net/gfxvnp+sjqkje+xwaqdc/#xwaqdc
2020-11-26 17:48:48 +0100chele(~chele@ip5b416ea2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 17:49:01 +0100hackagereflex-localize 1.0.2.0 - Localization library for reflex https://hackage.haskell.org/package/reflex-localize-1.0.2.0 (NCrashed)
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2020-11-26 17:52:36 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt so I think the problem right now is that it doesn't know that n is 0, because of how you're matching on the fromSing call. Let me see if I can remember how to do that better...
2020-11-26 17:52:40 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.48.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2020-11-26 17:53:11 +0100avdb(~avdb@ip-81-11-215-86.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-11-26 17:53:22 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: I suspected that might be a problem (and I remain confused about `Nat` in general--why aren't there `SZero` and `SS` constructors to match on?)
2020-11-26 17:53:26 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 17:53:42 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt yeah I tend to avoid the built-in Nats for that reason
2020-11-26 17:54:01 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:9880:303c:ca5b:76ff:fe29:f233) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 17:54:06 +0100 <zfnmxt> Is there a reason the built-ins don't export (or...lack?) the constructors?
2020-11-26 17:54:16 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net)
2020-11-26 17:54:19 +0100maroloccio(~marolocci@2a02:8084:221:ce00:164f:8aff:fed8:411d)
2020-11-26 17:54:54 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt I believe they're built to be efficient, e.g., if you have 1000 :: Nat, you don't want to carry around 1000 constructors if you don't need them
2020-11-26 17:55:18 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt it might be worth switching to a library that provides Z/S nats though for this, or rolling your own
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2020-11-26 17:55:56 +0100 <boxscape> with that I believe you could just do `case n of SZ -> left`
2020-11-26 17:56:12 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: I'll try!
2020-11-26 17:57:04 +0100 <boxscape> (zfnmxt: this for example, which has singletons integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/singleton-nats-0.4.5/docs/Data-Nat.html)
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2020-11-26 18:02:24 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: That fixed it :)
2020-11-26 18:02:29 +0100 <boxscape> nice
2020-11-26 18:02:45 +0100 <zfnmxt> Thanks a lot for the help!
2020-11-26 18:02:51 +0100 <boxscape> np
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2020-11-26 18:19:00 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: Unfortunately, I spoke too soon. It only works for the `n = SS SZ` case (I changed it so that `nth` is 1-indexed) if you type `nth` as `nth :: forall n x xs. Sing n -> HList (x ': xs) -> Lookup (x ': xs) n` (and it doesn't work for any case with a larger n). So it seems like the explicit `x ': xs` type pattern is what enabled the inference.
2020-11-26 18:19:12 +0100 <zfnmxt> https://www.pastery.net/gfxvnp+sjqkje+xwaqdc+rzupwz/#rzupwz
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2020-11-26 18:20:57 +0100aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-11-26 18:24:01 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2020-11-26 18:24:49 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 18:25:20 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt try `left @_ @(S Z)`? probably won't fix it but might give you a better error message
2020-11-26 18:26:52 +0100evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 18:28:10 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: That doesn't type, does it?
2020-11-26 18:28:27 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt hm, it's possible I confused something
2020-11-26 18:28:49 +0100evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-098-007.res.spectrum.com)
2020-11-26 18:29:09 +0100 <boxscape> oh, yeah, I think I did
2020-11-26 18:29:25 +0100 <zfnmxt> left only takes `a :: Type` and `b :: Type`
2020-11-26 18:29:47 +0100 <boxscape> right, hm
2020-11-26 18:29:55 +0100 <zfnmxt> (Maybe I should've said it doesn't kind :P)
2020-11-26 18:30:10 +0100 <boxscape> same thing since ghc 8.0 :)
2020-11-26 18:31:25 +0100 <zfnmxt> There's no way to have GHC print out the constraints it has generated so far during type inference or something, right?
2020-11-26 18:31:39 +0100 <zfnmxt> I just want to see what's going on; it's all so opaque :(
2020-11-26 18:31:39 +0100 <ski> i think you need to match on `xs'
2020-11-26 18:32:18 +0100 <boxscape> zfnmxt if you use typed holes (i.e. replace left with _) it will show you the constraints it has in context at that point
2020-11-26 18:32:48 +0100 <boxscape> not sure if that's quite what you're asking for but it might be
2020-11-26 18:32:51 +0100 <ski> `Sing n' allows you to match on `n'. i think you also need something to match on `xs'
2020-11-26 18:33:24 +0100matta(~user@24-113-169-116.wavecable.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 18:33:28 +0100 <zfnmxt> ski: That worked!
2020-11-26 18:34:18 +0100 <zfnmxt> boxscape: That's a nice trick too.
2020-11-26 18:35:02 +0100 <ski> what worked ?
2020-11-26 18:35:09 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c5800c8e579458ff3eb4f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 18:35:18 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c580000cffb05d629f3fd.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 18:35:24 +0100 <zfnmxt> ski: Matching on xs. At least for the `(SS SZ)` case.
2020-11-26 18:35:37 +0100 <ski> how did you match on it ?
2020-11-26 18:35:41 +0100aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-11-26 18:35:57 +0100gioyik(~gioyik@186.118.238.251)
2020-11-26 18:36:16 +0100matta(~user@24-113-169-116.wavecable.com)
2020-11-26 18:36:48 +0100 <zfnmxt> https://www.pastery.net/gfxvnp+sjqkje+xwaqdc+rzupwz+hwbecb/#hwbecb
2020-11-26 18:36:52 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> can I use something like runExceptT here to simplify this code, and/or avoid the nested case statements? https://dpaste.com/4WBWJH8WA
2020-11-26 18:36:54 +0100 <ski> (also, where's `Sing' (and `fromSing') from / how's it defined ?)
2020-11-26 18:37:07 +0100 <avdb> https://dpaste.com/9D4WFUTP5
2020-11-26 18:37:10 +0100 <avdb> Help please?
2020-11-26 18:37:31 +0100 <avdb> Can't install these programs with cabal.
2020-11-26 18:37:33 +0100 <zfnmxt> ski: Data.Singletons; that's a whole bag of worms there though.
2020-11-26 18:38:01 +0100aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-11-26 18:39:16 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c580000cffb05d629f3fd.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 18:39:17 +0100knupfer1(~Thunderbi@i59F7FFCD.versanet.de)
2020-11-26 18:41:03 +0100 <merijn> ezzieyguywuf: "yes"
2020-11-26 18:41:07 +0100borne(~fritjof@200116b864b8bd00394a967dc8ef4e61.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 18:41:09 +0100rayyyy(~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-26 18:41:29 +0100 <merijn> avdb: hdevtools has been dead since 2016
2020-11-26 18:41:37 +0100 <merijn> Actually, longer
2020-11-26 18:41:40 +0100knupfer1knupfer
2020-11-26 18:41:44 +0100borne(~fritjof@200116b864b8bd00394a967dc8ef4e61.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 18:41:48 +0100 <merijn> But 2016 is about the last time my personal fork of it worked
2020-11-26 18:41:50 +0100 <zfnmxt> ski: And again that only worked for the `(SS SZ)` case :'(
2020-11-26 18:42:32 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> merijn: even though the two "Left"s have different types?
2020-11-26 18:42:42 +0100 <merijn> ezzieyguywuf: oh, I hadn't seen that
2020-11-26 18:42:53 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> merijn: so I guess in that case no?
2020-11-26 18:43:05 +0100 <merijn> ezzieyguywuf: Easily solved by mapping them to the same type first ;)
2020-11-26 18:43:43 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.48.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-11-26 18:43:51 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> merijn: lol, fair enough.
2020-11-26 18:44:00 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.48.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-11-26 18:44:04 +0100 <merijn> :t Data.Bifunctor.first
2020-11-26 18:44:05 +0100 <lambdabot> Bifunctor p => (a -> b) -> p a c -> p b c
2020-11-26 18:44:34 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> ?_?
2020-11-26 18:44:44 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 18:44:57 +0100 <merijn> Either is a Bifunctor :p
2020-11-26 18:45:12 +0100 <merijn> > :t first isDigit
2020-11-26 18:45:16 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2020-11-26 18:45:21 +0100 <merijn> :t first isDigit
2020-11-26 18:45:23 +0100 <lambdabot> (Char, d) -> (Bool, d)
2020-11-26 18:45:30 +0100 <merijn> oh, wrong first
2020-11-26 18:45:38 +0100 <merijn> :t Data.Bifunctor.first isDigit
2020-11-26 18:45:39 +0100 <lambdabot> Bifunctor p => p Char c -> p Bool c
2020-11-26 18:45:49 +0100 <merijn> :t Data.Bifunctor.first isDigit (Right True)
2020-11-26 18:45:51 +0100 <lambdabot> Either Bool Bool
2020-11-26 18:46:53 +0100boxscape(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) (Quit: boxscape)
2020-11-26 18:48:08 +0100 <avdb> merijn: Another outdated package
2020-11-26 18:48:51 +0100 <geekosaur> stuff dependent on ghc internals goes stale quickly
2020-11-26 18:49:11 +0100borne(~fritjof@200116b864b8bd00394a967dc8ef4e61.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 18:49:49 +0100 <merijn> Like I said, the only editor tooling that's still relevant is ghcide and haskell-language-server
2020-11-26 18:49:56 +0100 <merijn> You can assume everything else is dead
2020-11-26 18:50:40 +0100 <ski> ezzieyguywuf : you'll likely need to unify the exception types. something like
2020-11-26 18:51:11 +0100 <ski> runProgram (FileName fname) = (either TextIO.putStrLn return =<<) . runExcept $ do
2020-11-26 18:51:37 +0100 <ski> csvLines <- ExceptT (either pack id <$> parseCSVFromFile (unpack fname))
2020-11-26 18:52:30 +0100 <ski> csvData <- ExceptT (processRawCSV ((fmap . fmap) pack csvLines))
2020-11-26 18:52:44 +0100 <ski> lift (processCSV csvData)
2020-11-26 18:54:04 +0100 <ezzieyguywuf> ski: merijn: thanks to you both, this has been helpful
2020-11-26 18:54:13 +0100 <gehmehgeh> I've read the docs and I've been googling a bit, so please bear with me if this question has been asked before: how do you pass ghc options to *just* your own code (not the installed libs) with cabal? I'd like to do some profiling, but when I pass those options with "--ghc-options" it affects _every_ package
2020-11-26 18:54:39 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: You can specify them in the cabal file?
2020-11-26 18:54:45 +0100 <gehmehgeh> how? where?
2020-11-26 18:54:52 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: ghc-options field? ;)
2020-11-26 18:54:53 +0100 <gehmehgeh> "ghc-options" it says isn't a recognized option
2020-11-26 18:54:56 +0100 <gehmehgeh> no
2020-11-26 18:55:28 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: https://github.com/merijn/paramtree/blob/master/paramtree.cabal#L33
2020-11-26 18:55:29 +0100dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 18:55:49 +0100 <merijn> (capitalisation there shouldn't matter, that's just a personal quirk)
2020-11-26 18:56:09 +0100 <monochrom> gHc-optionS:
2020-11-26 18:57:01 +0100 <gehmehgeh> cabal is still claiming "Build profile: -w ghc-8.10.2 -O1"
2020-11-26 18:57:08 +0100 <gehmehgeh> when I put a "ghc-options" line there
2020-11-26 18:57:09 +0100 <monochrom> When I was learning this back then, I spent an afternoon reading the relevant chapter in the cabal user's guide from top to bottom.
2020-11-26 18:57:28 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: So?
2020-11-26 18:57:38 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Shouldn't it reflect my changes?
2020-11-26 18:57:40 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: build-profile isn't a specification of options
2020-11-26 18:57:45 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Saying "-O2" instead of..
2020-11-26 18:57:53 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Well, that is counterintuitive
2020-11-26 18:58:07 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Because you can pass "-O2" directly to cabal and will reflect that
2020-11-26 18:58:16 +0100 <merijn> Build profile is, presumably reflecting whether you set "optimisation: 2" in ~/.cabal/config
2020-11-26 18:58:26 +0100 <ski> ezzieyguywuf : any luck ?
2020-11-26 18:58:37 +0100 <gehmehgeh> I actually put -O2 in ~/.cabal/config :D
2020-11-26 18:58:53 +0100 <monochrom> For -O2, with only a few exceptions, you shouldn't set in *.cabal at all.
2020-11-26 18:58:57 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: Doing that would involve parsing flags from ghc-options would involve cabal actually knowing all GHC options
2020-11-26 18:59:18 +0100 <merijn> gehmehgeh: Also, setting -O2 on everything is great way too spend *a lot* of time waiting for compilation for very marginal gains
2020-11-26 18:59:41 +0100ski. o O ( `SuppressUnusedWarnings ((<=?@#@$$) a6989586621679473158 :: TyFun Nat Bool -> Type)' )
2020-11-26 18:59:43 +0100 <merijn> -O2 isn't recommended unless you *know* -O2 is significantly better than -O1
2020-11-26 18:59:53 +0100 <gehmehgeh> ij
2020-11-26 18:59:56 +0100 <gehmehgeh> ok
2020-11-26 19:00:40 +0100 <gehmehgeh> You know what's a bit eerie? I also tried putting "-Werror=incomplete-patterns" there with the result that some dependencies won't build anymore...
2020-11-26 19:00:48 +0100oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-11-26 19:01:04 +0100 <merijn> Well, sure
2020-11-26 19:02:05 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 19:02:08 +0100 <merijn> Turns out that not every random dependency on the internet has the same engineering standards :p
2020-11-26 19:02:43 +0100pokid(~pokid@unaffiliated/pokid)
2020-11-26 19:02:43 +0100 <gehmehgeh> Still...
2020-11-26 19:06:24 +0100 <gehmehgeh> monochrom, merijn: Thanks for the help :)
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2020-11-26 19:19:00 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 19:19:13 +0100 <avdb> Is there a Haskell function that does "f n [x] = [x,x,x, ... x]", basically returning a list of the original element multiplied with n?
2020-11-26 19:19:19 +0100 <koz_> :t replicate
2020-11-26 19:19:21 +0100 <lambdabot> Int -> a -> [a]
2020-11-26 19:19:26 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-11-26 19:19:30 +0100 <koz_> > replicate 10 "foo"
2020-11-26 19:19:32 +0100 <lambdabot> ["foo","foo","foo","foo","foo","foo","foo","foo","foo","foo"]
2020-11-26 19:19:39 +0100 <avdb> Thanks!
2020-11-26 19:19:50 +0100Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:f085:e9f5:38cf:432d) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:19:52 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 19:20:00 +0100jneira(02896ac0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.2.137.106.192)
2020-11-26 19:20:01 +0100 <avdb> Been stuck on this problem for longer than a month lol
2020-11-26 19:20:14 +0100 <yushyin> lol
2020-11-26 19:20:18 +0100 <xerox_> @hoogle Int -> a -> [a]
2020-11-26 19:20:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Prelude replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
2020-11-26 19:20:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Data.List replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
2020-11-26 19:20:19 +0100 <lambdabot> GHC.List replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
2020-11-26 19:20:30 +0100 <xerox_> if you can give your idea a type sometimes you can find them like that
2020-11-26 19:20:39 +0100 <avdb> I didn't bother to try Hoogle yet, I'm still too much of a noob :P
2020-11-26 19:21:15 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@i59F7FFCD.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:21:24 +0100 <koz_> avdb: You can roll 'replicate' recursively without too much trouble.
2020-11-26 19:22:10 +0100tumdedum(~tumdedum@unaffiliated/espiral) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:22:21 +0100tumdedum(~tumdedum@unaffiliated/espiral)
2020-11-26 19:24:30 +0100blah20(45fbee6a@c-69-251-238-106.hsd1.md.comcast.net) ()
2020-11-26 19:24:43 +0100 <avdb> koz_: I know, I need to practice recursion a lot because I still suck at it!
2020-11-26 19:24:48 +0100Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:5d86:da4d:584b:848b)
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2020-11-26 19:25:23 +0100timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-105-245.cust.tele2.ee)
2020-11-26 19:25:25 +0100 <koz_> avdb: Basically, the trick is to treat it like a proof by induction. First, what's the simplest case you could ever see? Then, assuming you have a smaller answer, how do you get a bigger answer?
2020-11-26 19:26:30 +0100 <avdb> I do indeed always handle the base cases like x == 0 and x == 0, afterwards I start on the otherwise case
2020-11-26 19:26:47 +0100 <koz_> So for 'replicate', what's your base case?
2020-11-26 19:26:53 +0100 <avdb> Matching types is also a pain but that's where Haskell shines
2020-11-26 19:27:01 +0100 <avdb> Wait I'll send you a paste of my program
2020-11-26 19:28:17 +0100 <avdb> http://codepad.org/KHd73y9L
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2020-11-26 19:28:59 +0100 <avdb> koz_: Here you go, not sure if I should handle "arr == []" yet
2020-11-26 19:29:00 +0100timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-105-245.cust.tele2.ee) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 19:29:20 +0100timCF(~i.tkachuk@m91-129-105-245.cust.tele2.ee)
2020-11-26 19:29:47 +0100 <merijn> You should avoid using "== []" that won't work for lists that are missing an Eq instance
2020-11-26 19:30:01 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, 'null' or pattern matching is what you want.
2020-11-26 19:30:17 +0100asheshambasta(~user@ptr-e1lysauiv50il654lwl.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2020-11-26 19:31:02 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:31:08 +0100 <avdb> Ah lol that's why the last element doesn't print I suppose
2020-11-26 19:31:30 +0100 <avdb> merijn: I did but forgot to change it in my paste, ALE suggested it :)
2020-11-26 19:32:21 +0100 <timCF> Hi guys! Often I do operate with some value of monadic type, for example `Either a b` but inside some other monad `m` for example `IO`. To apply a function to internal `b` value I often write constructions like `(foo <$>) <$> x`. Is there other better/simpler way?
2020-11-26 19:32:42 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
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2020-11-26 19:32:47 +0100 <koz_> timCF: So you have IO (Either a b) as the type you're trying to work with?
2020-11-26 19:32:55 +0100 <timCF> Yes
2020-11-26 19:32:57 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 19:33:27 +0100tomsmedingwould write `fmap foo <$> x`, but that's the same
2020-11-26 19:33:44 +0100 <timCF> `(foo <$>) <$> x` works but looks ugly
2020-11-26 19:33:56 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.114.74) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:33:56 +0100 <merijn> eh
2020-11-26 19:33:57 +0100ishutin(~Ishutin@77-234-92-253.pool.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:34:01 +0100 <merijn> "fmap foo <$> x"? :p
2020-11-26 19:34:12 +0100 <timCF> well, it's the same)
2020-11-26 19:34:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> looks nicer
2020-11-26 19:34:25 +0100 <ski> timCF : maybe `ExceptT a', depending ?
2020-11-26 19:34:36 +0100 <timCF> I was looking for something like magic `<$$>` if it exists haha
2020-11-26 19:34:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> % let <$$> = fmap . fmap
2020-11-26 19:34:48 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding: ; <interactive>:27:5: error: parse error on input `<$$>'
2020-11-26 19:34:49 +0100 <ski> (fmap . fmap) foo x
2020-11-26 19:34:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> % let (<$$>) = fmap . fmap
2020-11-26 19:34:52 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding:
2020-11-26 19:34:58 +0100bruce_wayne(~prateekpr@94.129.87.184)
2020-11-26 19:35:00 +0100d068796(~d068796@2a01:c23:8073:b800:8554:936:8b1f:acb4)
2020-11-26 19:35:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> % :t (<$$>)
2020-11-26 19:35:01 +0100 <yahb> tomsmeding: (Functor f1, Functor f2) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)
2020-11-26 19:35:35 +0100 <timCF> well, looks like it will work?
2020-11-26 19:35:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> if it doesn't seem to exist, why not write it :)
2020-11-26 19:36:10 +0100 <ski> timCF : are you often short-circuiting the `Left's ?
2020-11-26 19:36:41 +0100forgottenone(~forgotten@176.88.97.75) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-11-26 19:36:43 +0100 <timCF> what do you mean?
2020-11-26 19:36:45 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 19:37:28 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 19:37:56 +0100 <ski> like `do x <- foo; case x of Left e -> return (Left e); Right v -> do y <- bar v; case y of Left e -> return (Left e); Right w -> ...'
2020-11-26 19:40:48 +0100 <timCF> yeah, I recognize this pattern. Nowdays I'm trying to use `first` `second` and `bimap` to control flow, but often this external IO-like monad complicate things
2020-11-26 19:41:34 +0100 <ski> if you find yourself doing that, then it sounds like `ExceptT' would be helpful
2020-11-26 19:41:56 +0100 <ski> and then you could write `foo <$> ExceptT x'
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2020-11-26 19:43:12 +0100 <timCF> Oh, monad transformers :) I'm already writing Haskell code for a while but still not fully understand them, hahah
2020-11-26 19:43:35 +0100d068796(~d068796@x4db56550.dyn.telefonica.de)
2020-11-26 19:43:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> someone on reddit noticed that ghc's unused variable warnings seem to have inconsistent behavour regarding transitive propagation of unusedness: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/k1dggw/surprising_unused_variable_warnings/
2020-11-26 19:43:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> is this a known thing?
2020-11-26 19:43:53 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul)
2020-11-26 19:43:54 +0100 <timCF> But this particular case you desribed happens very often in real code, so maybe it will be easier to understand it for me) Thanks!
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2020-11-26 19:48:13 +0100 <ski> timCF : the related `MaybeT' is also useful in similar circumstances
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2020-11-26 20:06:30 +0100hackagedata-as 0.0.0.2 - Simple extensible sum https://hackage.haskell.org/package/data-as-0.0.0.2 (incertia)
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2020-11-26 20:11:49 +0100 <timCF> Thanks! I actually have one more noob question. I do often use phantom types to make source code stricter. For example `newtype MoneyAmount a = MoneyAmount Rational'. That's nice because now I can specify the kind of person who owns the money, for example `data Customer` and then `x :: MoneyAmount Customer'. Now I want to go futher and specify the kind of balance money represent `newtype MoneyAmount a b =
2020-11-26 20:11:55 +0100 <timCF> MoneyAmount Rational' and then `data Debit; data Credit' and then `x :: MoneyAmount Customer Debit'. That's cool, but I can swap types and it still will be valid term `x :: MoneyAmount Debit Customer' and I even can use just some random types there like `x :: MoneyAmount Int Int' which does not make any sense. I'm not sure how do I call the thing I want, but I kinda want some sort of Class restrictions for
2020-11-26 20:12:01 +0100 <timCF> types which can go to N-th position in phantom type. I do want something like this (pseudo code) `(OwnerType a, AccountType b) => newtype MoneyAmount a b = MoneyAmount Rational'. Is there the way to achieve something similar?
2020-11-26 20:12:26 +0100pokid(~pokid@unaffiliated/pokid) ()
2020-11-26 20:12:36 +0100pokid(~pokid@unaffiliated/pokid)
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2020-11-26 20:14:49 +0100 <hpc> data kinds, perhaps?
2020-11-26 20:14:51 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 20:15:02 +0100 <monochrom> timCF: You can enable DataKinds, and maybe you also need KindSignatures. Then you can write: "data CD = Credit | Debit", "newtype M (a :: CD) = ...". Now "M Credit" and "M Debit" are legal, "M Bool" is not.
2020-11-26 20:15:10 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 20:16:04 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2020-11-26 20:17:07 +0100 <timCF> @monochrom hmmm, that's interesting, especially the meaning of `data CD = Credit | Debit` it looks like a type with 2 constructors, but it's definitely not what I do want. I want 2 types of CD class with 0 constructors
2020-11-26 20:17:07 +0100 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2020-11-26 20:17:46 +0100 <monochrom> That's the magic of DataKinds. You now also have a kind called CD, and it has two types, Credit and Debit.
2020-11-26 20:18:35 +0100 <monochrom> And the type called Credit has no possible value, not even bottom, because its kind is CD not *
2020-11-26 20:18:57 +0100 <timCF> monochrom: hmm, interesting. But how I do define normal types with constructors in case this extension is enabled?
2020-11-26 20:19:10 +0100 <monochrom> You get both
2020-11-26 20:19:11 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-11-26 20:19:43 +0100 <timCF> monochrom: by default it creates both type CD and kind CD?
2020-11-26 20:19:47 +0100 <monochrom> Yeah
2020-11-26 20:20:05 +0100orion(~orion@unaffiliated/orion) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 20:20:11 +0100 <avdb> Is there a way to just return
2020-11-26 20:20:21 +0100 <ski> just return what ?
2020-11-26 20:20:24 +0100 <avdb> Didn't mean to send that, stupid tmux
2020-11-26 20:20:25 +0100 <monochrom> I don't like this because sometimes you don't want one of them. Also too many name clashes for humans. (Oh the computer has no problem.)
2020-11-26 20:20:40 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.166.144.65) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-11-26 20:20:40 +0100 <monochrom> But it does the job. It just has side effects.
2020-11-26 20:20:45 +0100 <avdb> It's hard when you confuse Ctrl+w for Vim with Ctrl+b for Tmux
2020-11-26 20:20:50 +0100 <timCF> monochrom: so there is no way to have just kind?
2020-11-26 20:20:55 +0100 <monochrom> No.
2020-11-26 20:21:20 +0100 <monochrom> Just don't use the version you don't want. :)
2020-11-26 20:21:43 +0100 <timCF> monochrom: ehhh.. But it's still much better that having blind phantom types `MoneyAmount a b`
2020-11-26 20:22:00 +0100 <timCF> monochrom: thanks!
2020-11-26 20:22:03 +0100 <monochrom> I think the GHC people did this to avoid creating an extra reserved word such as "kind".
2020-11-26 20:22:14 +0100 <xerox_> what's the paper that explains this?
2020-11-26 20:22:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> note that GHC wants you to write 'Credit and 'Debit on the type level, as opposed to Credit and Debit on the value level
2020-11-26 20:22:30 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 20:22:43 +0100 <merijn> tomsmeding: Only when ambiguous
2020-11-26 20:22:44 +0100 <monochrom> I don't know, but maybe the GHC user's guide has a citation.
2020-11-26 20:22:53 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 20:23:21 +0100 <avdb> Is there a way to get the index of an element in a list comprehension?
2020-11-26 20:23:37 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 20:23:39 +0100 <merijn> Zip it with an list of indices? :p
2020-11-26 20:23:58 +0100 <avdb> I want [x | x <- lst] but without the odd indexes of lst
2020-11-26 20:24:00 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 20:24:11 +0100 <tomsmeding> merijn: also if not ambiguous: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/using-warnings.html#ghc-flag--Wunti… is enabled with -Wall
2020-11-26 20:24:22 +0100 <merijn> tomsmeding: That's new
2020-11-26 20:24:34 +0100 <merijn> Wonder when that got added
2020-11-26 20:24:35 +0100 <tomsmeding> perhaps, but it's true now nevertheless :p
2020-11-26 20:24:47 +0100phaul(~phaul@ruby/staff/phaul)
2020-11-26 20:24:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> I believe we two actually talked about this before in this very channel :p
2020-11-26 20:25:00 +0100 <monochrom> [x | (x,i) <- zip lst (cycle [True,False]), i]
2020-11-26 20:25:32 +0100 <avdb> You mean [(x,y) | x <- lst, y <- index, mod (snd y) 2 == 0] ?
2020-11-26 20:25:41 +0100 <monochrom> No. I mean what I wrote.
2020-11-26 20:25:49 +0100 <monochrom> What you wrote provably does something else.
2020-11-26 20:26:05 +0100 <tomsmeding> merijn: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/day/haskell/2020/11/07?id=111296&timestamp=1604764844#t1604764844
2020-11-26 20:26:07 +0100 <avdb> monochrom: Thanks. Doing exercises to learn new built-in functions is much more useful than reading books for me.
2020-11-26 20:26:20 +0100 <monochrom> Let's see what's so wrong:
2020-11-26 20:26:37 +0100 <avdb> That was my own function. I was planning on creating tuples with the index as the second element.
2020-11-26 20:26:45 +0100 <avdb> And just filtering the odd ones.
2020-11-26 20:27:17 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 20:27:24 +0100 <monochrom> With a moment of thought, you don't need full natural numbers, you just need cycle [True,False]
2020-11-26 20:28:04 +0100 <monochrom> Gödel was damaging in teaching us to always work with natural numbers only.
2020-11-26 20:28:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> did he?
2020-11-26 20:28:16 +0100 <monochrom> Turing was damaging in teaching us to always work with strings only.
2020-11-26 20:28:25 +0100 <ski> oh, there's an IRC Browse on the run again
2020-11-26 20:28:42 +0100BRRR(5b8169f5@m91-129-105-245.cust.tele2.ee) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 20:28:50 +0100 <monochrom> Oh very strongly. Look up Gödel numbering. An XY problem in avoiding even strings.
2020-11-26 20:28:57 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-11-26 20:29:05 +0100 <monochrom> or generally arrays.
2020-11-26 20:29:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> he certainly did cool tricks with natural numbers, but did he teach us to work with natural numbers only? I don't think so :)
2020-11-26 20:29:20 +0100 <opqdonut> there are also the folklore functions "evens (x:xs) = x:odds xs; odds (_:xs) = evens xs"
2020-11-26 20:29:22 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 20:29:52 +0100 <opqdonut> which are useful if you only need every second element (and don't need to generalize to e.g. every third)
2020-11-26 20:29:56 +0100 <xerox_> the GHC manual did have a citation http://dreixel.net/research/pdf/ghp.pdf
2020-11-26 20:29:56 +0100 <monochrom> Scott Aaronson had great fun mocking Gödel numbering.
2020-11-26 20:30:07 +0100 <merijn> ski: tomsmeding apparently wanted to do a bunch of work no one was feeling like, so we tricked him into running a copy now that Chris' is gone :p
2020-11-26 20:30:29 +0100 <tomsmeding> it compiles on a recent ghc now too :)
2020-11-26 20:31:24 +0100 <monochrom> Along the line of "I have a mathematician friend who is learning programming, he didn't learn arrays but he wanted to do arrays, so he thought up this great idea, represent [a,b,c] by 2^a 3^b 5^c. That's Gödel numbering."
2020-11-26 20:32:00 +0100 <xerox_> zipWith (^) primes
2020-11-26 20:32:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> obligatory mention of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran
2020-11-26 20:32:28 +0100 <opqdonut> gödel numbering predates pretty much all programming so we can forgive it for being a bit esoteric :P
2020-11-26 20:32:42 +0100 <opqdonut> I think I've seen a version of gödel's proof that uses a more modern encoding
2020-11-26 20:32:49 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 20:33:18 +0100 <xerox_> did they use capt'n'proto or protocol buffers
2020-11-26 20:33:19 +0100 <monochrom> Well OK, you are right that maybe he didn't intend to teach us to use natural numbers only. But the empirical effect is he ended up achieving that.
2020-11-26 20:33:51 +0100 <opqdonut> xerox_: json and unicode, obviously ;)
2020-11-26 20:34:00 +0100jollygood2(~bc8165ab@217.29.117.252)
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2020-11-26 20:34:35 +0100 <jollygood2> @hoogle Random a => [a] -> IO a
2020-11-26 20:34:36 +0100 <lambdabot> Rando pickOne :: [x] -> IO x
2020-11-26 20:34:36 +0100 <lambdabot> System.Random.Pick pickOne :: [x] -> IO x
2020-11-26 20:34:36 +0100 <lambdabot> Basement.Monad unsafePrimToIO :: PrimMonad prim => prim a -> IO a
2020-11-26 20:34:40 +0100invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125) (Quit: invaser)
2020-11-26 20:34:42 +0100 <monochrom> Namely, we all understand that Gödel numbering is completely non-essential and replaceable (by strings, even ASTs) for his proofs, but most people still teach the Gödel numbering versions of the proof exclusively.
2020-11-26 20:34:46 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 20:34:46 +0100 <jollygood2> anything in base?
2020-11-26 20:35:00 +0100invaser(~Thunderbi@31.148.23.125)
2020-11-26 20:35:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> jollygood2: the Random class itself isn't even in base :p
2020-11-26 20:35:10 +0100fendor(~fendor@77.119.130.234.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 20:35:28 +0100 <jollygood2> s/base/package that ships with ghc
2020-11-26 20:35:53 +0100 <tomsmeding> unfortunately no, 'random' is the usual package, though there are others with more high-performance generators
2020-11-26 20:36:15 +0100 <tomsmeding> also, 'Random' itself is not from a package that ships with ghc, so my point stands :p
2020-11-26 20:36:22 +0100 <dolio> I'm not sure that's on Gödel. It's kind of the mathematician equivalent of programmers who want to write everything 'close to the machine.'
2020-11-26 20:36:32 +0100 <jollygood2> Random doesn't ship with ghc?
2020-11-26 20:36:38 +0100 <monochrom> My thesis supervisor's sentiment is in http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/God.pdf and I totally agree, today even the purest mathematicians have the tools to obsolete the Gödel encoding.
2020-11-26 20:36:51 +0100 <tomsmeding> jollygood2: it's from the 'random' package :p
2020-11-26 20:37:06 +0100 <jollygood2> that doesn't answer my question
2020-11-26 20:37:31 +0100 <tomsmeding> ... which doesn't ship with ghc, no
2020-11-26 20:38:08 +0100 <tomsmeding> because ghc ships only with the packages that ghc depends on, and ghc doesn't need to generate random numbers
2020-11-26 20:38:19 +0100 <monochrom> OK yeah dolio, your take is right.
2020-11-26 20:38:34 +0100 <monochrom> Oh well, so much for blaming it on celebrities.
2020-11-26 20:38:58 +0100oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 20:39:22 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-11-26 20:39:40 +0100 <monochrom> Oh, random-1.2 is fast and high-quality IMO, even when you use split heavily.
2020-11-26 20:39:56 +0100 <jollygood2> I don't care about speed
2020-11-26 20:39:59 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 20:40:11 +0100 <monochrom> Actually the high-quality part can be objectively quantified by the statistics tests they took, e.g. Die Hard 1.
2020-11-26 20:40:12 +0100 <jollygood2> I just didn't want to depend on more packages than I need to
2020-11-26 20:40:42 +0100 <monochrom> Its dependency is minimal too. Just splitmix (the actual generator)
2020-11-26 20:40:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> the Random class is from the 'random' package, which ghc does not depend on, so you'll need that one at least -- and that ships with a RNG too, so it's all you need
2020-11-26 20:40:45 +0100 <dolio> Similar phenomenon to everyone insisting on ZF(C) as a formal foundation, and getting really obstinate about not using one that lets you write down things similar to what mathematicians actually say in a more direct way. Despite having very little experience actually working formally. :)
2020-11-26 20:41:00 +0100 <merijn> monochrom: As always the blame lies with "people being people"
2020-11-26 20:41:07 +0100machinedgod(~machinedg@135-23-192-217.cpe.pppoe.ca)
2020-11-26 20:41:31 +0100 <monochrom> IKR? I'm supposed to be cynical about all humanity.
2020-11-26 20:41:32 +0100 <merijn> There's a super fast RNG in base if you don't care about quality :p
2020-11-26 20:41:38 +0100 <merijn> "4"
2020-11-26 20:42:44 +0100 <dolio> I actually saw someone on MathOverflow recently talking about how the nonsensical propositions in ZF enable 'clever hacks', and that's a good thing. Which makes even less sense than when programmers advocate for it. :)
2020-11-26 20:42:58 +0100 <jollygood2> randomPick xs = (xs!!) <$> randomRIO (0, length xs)
2020-11-26 20:43:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> I mean, if quality is not a great issue, you can write a 128-bit LCG without a large amount of effort or code, which will work fine :p
2020-11-26 20:43:17 +0100 <int-e> merijn: with the xkcd stamp of approval?
2020-11-26 20:43:28 +0100 <jollygood2> length xs - 1
2020-11-26 20:43:49 +0100 <merijn> int-e: Exactly
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2020-11-26 21:19:00 +0100hackageukrainian-phonetics-basic 0.3.1.1 - A library to work with the basic Ukrainian phonetics and syllable segmentation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ukrainian-phonetics-basic-0.3.1.1 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 21:19:08 +0100pokid(~pokid@unaffiliated/pokid) ()
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2020-11-26 21:20:18 +0100 <sondr3> I want to read a directory and filter out files based on it's extension, I get all the contents fine with `listDirectory`, but as soon as I filter the list it becomes empty
2020-11-26 21:20:35 +0100 <sondr3> I'm probably missing something to do with the IO monad
2020-11-26 21:21:06 +0100nf__(~n@monade.li) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 21:21:14 +0100 <monochrom> Show actual code?
2020-11-26 21:21:18 +0100 <shapr> sondr3: can you pastebin your code?
2020-11-26 21:21:18 +0100wonko7(~wonko7@lns-bzn-55-82-255-183-4.adsl.proxad.net)
2020-11-26 21:21:19 +0100 <monochrom> @where paste
2020-11-26 21:21:19 +0100 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at eg https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2020-11-26 21:21:21 +0100 <geekosaur> @where paste
2020-11-26 21:21:21 +0100 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at eg https://paste.tomsmeding.com
2020-11-26 21:21:29 +0100nf(~n@monade.li)
2020-11-26 21:22:58 +0100 <Uniaika> nf: nice reverse host
2020-11-26 21:23:10 +0100 <nf> thanks :)
2020-11-26 21:23:20 +0100 <sondr3> monochrom: geekosaur: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/dboZf8Up
2020-11-26 21:23:45 +0100 <avdb> How do I create on liner if then else cases in Haskell like in C? If I'm not wrong it should be possible with something like "x == foo? Nothing : Maybe a"
2020-11-26 21:24:07 +0100raehik(~raehik@cpc95906-rdng25-2-0-cust156.15-3.cable.virginm.net)
2020-11-26 21:24:14 +0100 <monochrom> > "aaaa" `isSuffixOf "a"
2020-11-26 21:24:16 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:20: error: <hint>:1:20: error: parse error on input ‘"’
2020-11-26 21:24:16 +0100 <geekosaur> sodr3, looks to me like you have your isSuffixOf reversed
2020-11-26 21:24:26 +0100 <tomsmeding> `if x == foo then Nothing else Just a`? avdb
2020-11-26 21:24:30 +0100 <shapr> > if 0 == 1 then "world broken" else "not equal"
2020-11-26 21:24:33 +0100 <lambdabot> "not equal"
2020-11-26 21:24:43 +0100 <geekosaur> it's looking for filenames which are suffixes of "hrx"
2020-11-26 21:24:44 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
2020-11-26 21:24:54 +0100 <sondr3> geekosaur: doh
2020-11-26 21:25:13 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33) ()
2020-11-26 21:25:22 +0100 <avdb> tomsmeding: There was a method with symbols if I'm not wrong, might've just dreamed about it though.
2020-11-26 21:25:34 +0100 <avdb> If then else is already short enough but I don't like the verbosity
2020-11-26 21:25:52 +0100 <sondr3> geekosaur: yep, that was it. Thanks :facepalm:
2020-11-26 21:26:08 +0100 <shapr> avdb: pattern match? applicative?
2020-11-26 21:26:13 +0100 <Uniaika> nf: and I realise just now that you already follow me on Twitter :P
2020-11-26 21:26:32 +0100 <tomsmeding> avdb: `let cond ? (x, y) = if cond then x else y`
2020-11-26 21:26:43 +0100 <shapr> :-D
2020-11-26 21:26:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> but if-then-else is more readable :p
2020-11-26 21:26:52 +0100 <nf> Uniaika: ;D
2020-11-26 21:27:58 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:28:01 +0100 <int-e> :t bool
2020-11-26 21:28:03 +0100 <lambdabot> a -> a -> Bool -> a
2020-11-26 21:28:11 +0100 <shapr> whoa, I like mario lang's github profile pic
2020-11-26 21:28:13 +0100juuandyy(~juuandyy@90.166.144.65) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-11-26 21:29:16 +0100 <int-e> > bool "nay" "aye" (0 == 1)
2020-11-26 21:29:18 +0100 <lambdabot> "nay"
2020-11-26 21:30:09 +0100 <shapr> that's neat
2020-11-26 21:30:49 +0100 <koz_> Yep, bool is handy sometimes.
2020-11-26 21:30:51 +0100 <koz_> Related:
2020-11-26 21:30:54 +0100 <koz_> :t maybe
2020-11-26 21:30:56 +0100 <lambdabot> b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b
2020-11-26 21:30:57 +0100 <koz_> :t either
2020-11-26 21:30:58 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c
2020-11-26 21:31:12 +0100 <int-e> :t foldr
2020-11-26 21:31:13 +0100 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b
2020-11-26 21:31:15 +0100koz_mumbles something about Boehm-Beraducci encodings.
2020-11-26 21:31:51 +0100 <shapr> does anyone have a tutorial for doing advent of code with nix? I'm mostly a nix newbie.
2020-11-26 21:32:28 +0100 <int-e> that question doesn't feel well-typed to me
2020-11-26 21:32:33 +0100tomsmedingthought nix was a language for package configuration description, not for general-purpose programming
2020-11-26 21:32:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> not that you can't use it for that
2020-11-26 21:32:56 +0100 <tomsmeding> I guess
2020-11-26 21:32:58 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Quit: Connection closed)
2020-11-26 21:33:03 +0100 <tomsmeding> may be slow
2020-11-26 21:33:18 +0100 <tomsmeding> anyone up for doing AOC in dhall?
2020-11-26 21:33:21 +0100 <koz_> tomsmeding: You can use it to set up a programming environment, along with your (non-Haskell) deps.
2020-11-26 21:33:23 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 21:33:25 +0100 <shapr> tomsmeding: I have nixOS installed, but I'm still coming to grips with how to do development with it
2020-11-26 21:33:29 +0100 <koz_> I _guess_ that's what's being asked.
2020-11-26 21:33:58 +0100 <shapr> lucky for me, chessai got my most recent app working with nix: https://github.com/shapr/fermatslastmargin/blob/master/shell.nix
2020-11-26 21:34:14 +0100 <shapr> but is that all I need to use any library from hackage?
2020-11-26 21:34:29 +0100 <sm[m]> tomsmeding: definitely not :)
2020-11-26 21:34:35 +0100 <shapr> I've read that some of nix+haskell means I'm limited to a single version of the libraries, is that true?
2020-11-26 21:35:02 +0100 <sm[m]> but I think glguy should use dhall. Slow him down a bit.
2020-11-26 21:35:05 +0100kish`(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:35:30 +0100hackageukrainian-phonetics-basic 0.3.1.2 - A library to work with the basic Ukrainian phonetics and syllable segmentation. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ukrainian-phonetics-basic-0.3.1.2 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 21:35:36 +0100 <shapr> sm[m]: haha!
2020-11-26 21:36:23 +0100 <avdb> Can you mix list comprehensions with if statements in haskell?
2020-11-26 21:36:45 +0100 <koz_> avdb: You mean, you want to have conditional logic _in_ the list comprehension?
2020-11-26 21:36:46 +0100 <avdb> [x | x <- lst, if x == foo then succ x else x]
2020-11-26 21:36:49 +0100 <avdb> Yes!
2020-11-26 21:37:07 +0100 <shapr> you can also do pattern matches inside the list comp
2020-11-26 21:37:17 +0100 <avdb> how?
2020-11-26 21:37:56 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:37:56 +0100 <shapr> or for extra insanity, there's TransformListComp: https://github.com/shapr/tmuxmarta/blob/master/src/Lib.hs#L65
2020-11-26 21:37:59 +0100 <ski> there are no `if' statements in Haskell
2020-11-26 21:38:10 +0100 <shapr> but I think I'm the only person who's used TransformListComp in the past few years :-P
2020-11-26 21:38:38 +0100skiwas just reading about them a bit, earlier today
2020-11-26 21:38:50 +0100 <ski> (looking at some of ProfTeggy's papers)
2020-11-26 21:38:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> there are 'if' expressions, though
2020-11-26 21:38:51 +0100 <shapr> ski: I should try some monad comprehensions
2020-11-26 21:38:58 +0100 <avdb> ski: if then else grrr
2020-11-26 21:39:14 +0100 <avdb> I don't know how to use Monads, Functors or any of those exotic tools
2020-11-26 21:39:16 +0100aidecoe(~aidecoe@unaffiliated/aidecoe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:39:43 +0100 <ski> avdb : do you want to, conditionally, either collect `x' or `succ x', with `x' being drawn from `lst' ?
2020-11-26 21:39:50 +0100 <shapr> avdb: oh functors are so cool!
2020-11-26 21:39:52 +0100 <avdb> Yes
2020-11-26 21:40:00 +0100 <shapr> avdb: it's like "apply this function inside this container"
2020-11-26 21:40:08 +0100 <shapr> avdb: have you used map?
2020-11-26 21:40:24 +0100 <ski> > [if x `mod` 3 == 0 then succ x else x | x <- [0 .. 9]]
2020-11-26 21:40:27 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,4,4,5,7,7,8,10]
2020-11-26 21:40:29 +0100 <shapr> > map (* (-1)) [1..9]
2020-11-26 21:40:29 +0100 <avdb> Not yet ...
2020-11-26 21:40:31 +0100 <lambdabot> [-1,-2,-3,-4,-5,-6,-7,-8,-9]
2020-11-26 21:40:32 +0100 <avdb> Thanks
2020-11-26 21:40:32 +0100 <ski> something like that ?
2020-11-26 21:40:49 +0100 <shapr> > map (+1) [5..9]
2020-11-26 21:40:50 +0100aidecoe(~aidecoe@unaffiliated/aidecoe)
2020-11-26 21:40:52 +0100 <lambdabot> [6,7,8,9,10]
2020-11-26 21:40:57 +0100 <shapr> :t map
2020-11-26 21:40:59 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
2020-11-26 21:41:01 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:41:03 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 21:41:07 +0100nullheroes(~danielvu@168.235.66.22) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 21:41:14 +0100 <ski> > [y | x <- [0 .. 9],let y = if x `mod` 3 == 0 then succ x else x] -- another way to say the same thing
2020-11-26 21:41:16 +0100 <shapr> avdb: map says "give me a function, and a list, and I'll apply the function to each element in the list, and give you the result"
2020-11-26 21:41:17 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,4,4,5,7,7,8,10]
2020-11-26 21:41:32 +0100 <avdb> I also intentionally ask my questions it in a totally different manner so that I have to edit the code and use my brains :P
2020-11-26 21:41:34 +0100tomsmedingis happy in this instance that the Haskell legacy hasn't made fmap and map the same thing -- sucks with explaining
2020-11-26 21:42:12 +0100sondr3(~sondr3@cm-84.211.56.132.getinternet.no) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-26 21:42:22 +0100 <ski> > [y | x <- [0 .. 9],let y | x `mod` 3 == 0 = succ x | otherwise = x] -- yet another variation
2020-11-26 21:42:23 +0100 <shapr> avdb: that's smart, using your brain is good but takes work
2020-11-26 21:42:24 +0100 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,4,4,5,7,7,8,10]
2020-11-26 21:42:43 +0100 <avdb> Oh wow ... you can play with the x on the left hand side? Learned something new today about haskell ...
2020-11-26 21:42:54 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : they were the same thing, in the past
2020-11-26 21:43:05 +0100 <koz_> avdb: If you've seen set comprehensions, this will feel very familiar.
2020-11-26 21:43:11 +0100 <ski> hm, on the left-hand side of what ?
2020-11-26 21:43:20 +0100 <avdb> Of list comprehensions
2020-11-26 21:43:31 +0100 <ski> do you mean, before the first `|' ?
2020-11-26 21:43:43 +0100 <ski> you can put any expression there
2020-11-26 21:43:43 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 21:43:47 +0100Deide(~Deide@217.155.19.23)
2020-11-26 21:43:51 +0100 <ski> including `if'-`then'-`else' expressions
2020-11-26 21:43:52 +0100 <tomsmeding> ski: were they? I've only heard the complaints from people that wanted 'map' gone and have 'fmap' called 'map' for consistency, but maybe those were also not aware that this hasn't always been like that?
2020-11-26 21:44:07 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 21:45:00 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
2020-11-26 21:45:07 +0100avdb(~avdb@ip-81-11-215-86.dsl.scarlet.be) (Quit: avdb)
2020-11-26 21:45:23 +0100 <shapr> ski has been writing Haskell longer than I have!
2020-11-26 21:45:45 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : <http://www.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/doc/html/Haskell1.4/standard-prelude.html#$tFunctor>
2020-11-26 21:46:02 +0100 <shapr> wow, that's old school
2020-11-26 21:46:02 +0100 <ski> tomsmeding : also check out `MonadPlus', just below
2020-11-26 21:46:14 +0100 <shapr> I didn't get into Haskell until .. ghc4? ghc5? something like that
2020-11-26 21:46:32 +0100 <shapr> What was the hot new ghc in ~2000 ?
2020-11-26 21:46:46 +0100shaprchecks
2020-11-26 21:46:47 +0100 <tomsmeding> fascinating, (++) in MonadPlus
2020-11-26 21:46:48 +0100 <shapr> ah, april 2001
2020-11-26 21:47:10 +0100 <tomsmeding> makes sense though
2020-11-26 21:47:23 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 21:47:23 +0100 <ski> oh and `sequence'&`accumulate' in place of `sequence_',`sequence'
2020-11-26 21:48:01 +0100nullheroes(~danielvu@168.235.66.22)
2020-11-26 21:48:39 +0100 <ski> (i remember noting that in Winstanley's monad tutorial <http://www-users.mat.uni.torun.pl/~fly/materialy/fp/haskell-doc/Monads.html>)
2020-11-26 21:49:25 +0100jonatanb(~jonatanb@83.24.220.252.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:49:30 +0100 <dminuoso> 21:45:45 ski | tomsmeding : <http://www.ki.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/doc/html/Haskell1.4/standard-prelude.html#$tFunctor>
2020-11-26 21:49:49 +0100 <dminuoso> Academia is one of the few places that knows how to maintain long lived websites, which I think is both a blessing and a curse.
2020-11-26 21:50:28 +0100 <ski> shapr : are you sure ?
2020-11-26 21:50:38 +0100skican't recall
2020-11-26 21:50:54 +0100AlterEgo-(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-26 21:51:24 +0100 <monochrom> dminuoso, I think it's more like "is enabled to"
2020-11-26 21:51:56 +0100 <ski> shapr : you said anniversary's in April ?
2020-11-26 21:52:03 +0100 <shapr> yup
2020-11-26 21:52:05 +0100 <int-e> dminuoso: don't worry, we're working on solutions for that anomaly: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=5094
2020-11-26 21:52:16 +0100 <shapr> April 30th
2020-11-26 21:52:27 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 21:52:27 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 21:52:30 +0100 <int-e> also... it often happens that a bunch of stuff just disappears when a professor retires or moves to another university
2020-11-26 21:52:36 +0100 <ski> yes
2020-11-26 21:52:42 +0100 <shapr> int-e: that part makes me sad
2020-11-26 21:52:45 +0100jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.49) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:52:54 +0100 <shapr> I still have an ancient smalltalk <-> haskell bridge
2020-11-26 21:53:07 +0100 <ski> or when the department decide to do a "site revamp"
2020-11-26 21:53:09 +0100boxscape(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55)
2020-11-26 21:53:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> making the thing less usable in the process
2020-11-26 21:53:58 +0100 <ski> shapr : that was when you came here ?
2020-11-26 21:54:00 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 21:54:15 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.114.74)
2020-11-26 21:54:15 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2020-11-26 21:54:27 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
2020-11-26 21:54:44 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 21:55:23 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 21:55:52 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-11-26 21:56:07 +0100 <shapr> ski: I think a month later
2020-11-26 21:56:11 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c5800b48acffffeb6f843.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-11-26 21:56:11 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82c0c5800b48acffffeb6f843.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 21:56:18 +0100jespada(~jespada@90.254.245.49)
2020-11-26 21:56:26 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@i59F7FFCD.versanet.de)
2020-11-26 21:56:36 +0100 <shapr> someone else created the channel, but the channel was empty and nobody had joined for weeks, so I talked the freenode admins into letting me take ownership
2020-11-26 21:56:52 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 21:56:55 +0100 <monochrom> Namely, a corporate knows too, and it actually knows all too well, precisely why they consciously kill old websites, because they deeply understand that keeping legacy websites is anti-bean-counting.
2020-11-26 21:56:58 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 21:57:12 +0100 <ski> yea, i remember you've said that. but for some reason, i always figured it'd been around a bit longer than a month
2020-11-26 21:57:19 +0100 <shapr> so I probably started writing Haskell in May or June of 2001
2020-11-26 21:57:28 +0100 <shapr> ski: I don't remember :-(
2020-11-26 21:58:09 +0100luke(~luke@bitnomial/staff/luke) (Quit: sleep)
2020-11-26 21:58:26 +0100 <monochrom> A university is more enabled because it attracts fewer bean-counting people, and sometimes more people who think along the line "who dares to take down John Conway's website now!"
2020-11-26 21:58:30 +0100 <ski> i remember i hadn't been on hawiki too long, before finding the `HaskellIRC' page, and came here. and i found the Wiki, because someone mentioned it on <news://comp.lang.functional>
2020-11-26 21:59:07 +0100dftxbs3e(~dftxbs3e@unaffiliated/dftxbs3e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 21:59:38 +0100kish`(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle)
2020-11-26 22:00:24 +0100 <ski> (but i don't recall when i turned up here, in 2001)
2020-11-26 22:00:50 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-11-26 22:00:57 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 22:01:16 +0100kish`(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:01:27 +0100fendor(~fendor@77.119.130.234.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-11-26 22:01:28 +0100acarrico(~acarrico@dhcp-68-142-39-249.greenmountainaccess.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:01:32 +0100 <shapr> ski: I don't think we had logs then either
2020-11-26 22:01:42 +0100tomsmedingis barely three years older than this channel then apparently
2020-11-26 22:01:52 +0100 <ski> i remember it was on OpenProjects, then
2020-11-26 22:01:52 +0100p-core(~Thunderbi@2001:718:1e03:5128:2ab7:7f35:48a1:8515) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:01:55 +0100 <shapr> I do know that Igloo and Heffalump were early joins to this channel, so they might remember?
2020-11-26 22:02:01 +0100 <shapr> tomsmeding: welcome?
2020-11-26 22:02:01 +0100 <ski> dunno when clog showed up
2020-11-26 22:02:06 +0100 <tomsmeding> :D
2020-11-26 22:02:10 +0100 <shapr> :-D
2020-11-26 22:02:58 +0100 <shapr> I'd actually gotten angry at Haskell and gave up and went to learn Scheme, but then my girlfriend at the time had spent time and money to buy me Haskell books for my birthday, so I tried to pick up Haskell again.
2020-11-26 22:03:30 +0100 <ski> blackdog,arjanb, hmm .. if i think about it, i might be able to remember more names
2020-11-26 22:03:50 +0100tabemann(~tabemann@172-13-49-137.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 22:04:17 +0100 <koz_> shapr: Thank her for me. :P
2020-11-26 22:04:25 +0100 <shapr> haha
2020-11-26 22:04:27 +0100 <koz_> (if you two are still on speaking terms)
2020-11-26 22:04:28 +0100 <Rembane> shapr: So that you know Haskell is all because of her? :D
2020-11-26 22:04:31 +0100hackagetypson-core 0.1.0.1 - Type-safe PostgreSQL JSON Querying https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-core-0.1.0.1 (aaronallen8455)
2020-11-26 22:04:36 +0100 <shapr> Rembane: pretty much, yeah
2020-11-26 22:04:47 +0100 <koz_> True story: I got into CompSci because I was ridiculously attracted to one of my TAs.
2020-11-26 22:04:54 +0100 <koz_> (no seriously)
2020-11-26 22:05:05 +0100 <Rembane> koz_: Seems legit. Did you ask them out on a date?
2020-11-26 22:05:08 +0100kish`(~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle)
2020-11-26 22:05:11 +0100 <koz_> She wasn't interested.
2020-11-26 22:05:15 +0100 <shapr> too bad
2020-11-26 22:05:18 +0100 <koz_> Ehh.
2020-11-26 22:05:22 +0100 <Rembane> Must've been a disappointment and saved lots of time.
2020-11-26 22:05:33 +0100 <Rembane> shapr: Was it you who did the APL implementation in Haskell?
2020-11-26 22:05:40 +0100 <koz_> I'm glad she wasn't, because our worldviews were about a million miles apart.
2020-11-26 22:05:41 +0100 <shapr> not me, no
2020-11-26 22:05:45 +0100 <koz_> And it would have ended in tears.
2020-11-26 22:05:55 +0100 <shapr> though I would like to read that APL implementation
2020-11-26 22:06:08 +0100 <Rembane> Then I'm mixing you up with someone
2020-11-26 22:06:24 +0100 <Rembane> shapr: If I stumble upon it I promise to send it to you
2020-11-26 22:06:28 +0100 <shapr> yay!
2020-11-26 22:06:51 +0100 <shapr> I built ghcLiVE long years ago, and more recently Fermat's Last Margin
2020-11-26 22:06:59 +0100 <shapr> and some smaller tools like sandwatch
2020-11-26 22:07:32 +0100skieats a sandwich
2020-11-26 22:07:36 +0100 <Igloo> shapr: Remember what?
2020-11-26 22:07:49 +0100 <shapr> Igloo: when did you join #haskell the first time?
2020-11-26 22:07:51 +0100 <koz_> ski: Ah yes, the product type of foods.
2020-11-26 22:08:05 +0100 <shapr> Igloo: also, how's life treating you? Do you get paid to write Haskell?
2020-11-26 22:08:31 +0100 <shapr> I'm tempted to rebuild ghcLiVE in a terminal with sixel http://okbob.blogspot.com/2020/08/gnome-terminal-with-sixel-support.html
2020-11-26 22:08:50 +0100 <Igloo> I don't know exactly
2020-11-26 22:08:58 +0100Sgeo_(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-11-26 22:08:59 +0100 <Igloo> I write a few bits here and there :-)
2020-11-26 22:09:08 +0100 <shapr> Igloo: ski and I were trying to figure out when #haskell really got going
2020-11-26 22:09:28 +0100 <shapr> I know I took over founder-ness some weeks / months after the channel was registered, but I don't remember exactly when.
2020-11-26 22:09:41 +0100 <Rembane> When was this?
2020-11-26 22:09:45 +0100 <shapr> sometime in 2001
2020-11-26 22:09:46 +0100 <ski> 2001
2020-11-26 22:09:48 +0100 <Rembane> Nice
2020-11-26 22:09:51 +0100 <ski> fun times :)
2020-11-26 22:09:58 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:10:00 +0100hackagetypson-beam 0.1.0.1 - Typson Beam Integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-beam-0.1.0.1 (aaronallen8455)
2020-11-26 22:10:08 +0100 <shapr> Fewer people here, but all sorts of adventures too
2020-11-26 22:10:10 +0100 <Rembane> I joined nine years later IIRC
2020-11-26 22:10:17 +0100bruce_wayne(~prateekpr@94.129.87.184) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:10:19 +0100 <Igloo> Chanserv says "Registered : Apr 30 22:22:56 2001 (19y 30w 4d ago)"
2020-11-26 22:10:27 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 22:10:32 +0100 <shapr> Igloo: 20th anniversary party coming up!
2020-11-26 22:10:45 +0100 <Rembane> Sweet!
2020-11-26 22:10:48 +0100bruce_wayne(~prateekpr@94.129.87.184)
2020-11-26 22:10:54 +0100 <tomsmeding> missed the 22:22:22 opportunity there 19 years ago
2020-11-26 22:10:56 +0100 <ski> iirc i'd ambush newbies, asking them about Haskell or so
2020-11-26 22:11:06 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:11:31 +0100 <Igloo> But will we still have to party at home alone, shapr? :-)
2020-11-26 22:11:38 +0100elliott__(~elliott@pool-108-51-141-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-11-26 22:11:44 +0100 <ski> shapr : my vague memory tells me ten to twenty regulars, around the start. does that sound reasonable ?
2020-11-26 22:11:53 +0100 <shapr> yup
2020-11-26 22:12:01 +0100 <ski> we're not alone, in #haskell !
2020-11-26 22:12:12 +0100geekosaur(ae68c070@cpe-174-104-192-112.neo.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:12:13 +0100Sgeo(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:13:11 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: mputz)
2020-11-26 22:13:47 +0100 <shapr> ski: oh hey, I wrote an email to the haskell .. cafe? so we can find that!
2020-11-26 22:14:08 +0100 <shapr> That's how I got people to show up, I told 'em there were smart academics here having good conversation.
2020-11-26 22:14:13 +0100 <shapr> and when they arrived, it was true!
2020-11-26 22:14:30 +0100 <ski> hm, i don't recall seeing that
2020-11-26 22:16:03 +0100 <shapr> Might have been the main haskell mailing list, I forget
2020-11-26 22:16:31 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists 0.1.3.1 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-properties package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-simplified-properties-lists-0.1.3.1 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-11-26 22:19:06 +0100 <xerox_> I wonder where TheHunter ended up
2020-11-26 22:19:25 +0100 <ski> yea ..
2020-11-26 22:19:36 +0100 <ski> and mmorrow,vixey
2020-11-26 22:19:46 +0100hnOsmium0001(uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yhbundavwcfojtvb)
2020-11-26 22:19:52 +0100 <shapr> I know where blackdog works ...
2020-11-26 22:20:13 +0100 <shapr> I tracked down TheHunter some years ago, he was still writing code, but I think not Haskell anymore.
2020-11-26 22:20:39 +0100francesco_(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 22:20:43 +0100 <shapr> > 51 / 3
2020-11-26 22:20:46 +0100 <lambdabot> 17.0
2020-11-26 22:21:01 +0100boxscape37(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55)
2020-11-26 22:21:04 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 22:21:28 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-11-26 22:21:30 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.114.74) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:22:24 +0100 <ski> i remember at some point i used to obsessively read all the scrollback ..
2020-11-26 22:23:01 +0100hackagetypson-esqueleto 0.1.0.1 - Typson Esqueleto Integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-esqueleto-0.1.0.1 (aaronallen8455)
2020-11-26 22:23:02 +0100 <shapr> That was humanly possible in the early years.
2020-11-26 22:23:14 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 22:23:37 +0100boxscape(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:23:39 +0100 <shapr> I used to check the user list when I got on and welcome new people
2020-11-26 22:24:03 +0100 <ski> yea, i remember that, too
2020-11-26 22:24:11 +0100 <hpc> checking the user list used to be humanly possible too
2020-11-26 22:24:16 +0100boxscape37boxscape
2020-11-26 22:24:20 +0100 <ski> (remember me doing that, quite possibly after seeing you do it)
2020-11-26 22:25:05 +0100andi-(~andi-@NixOS/user/andi-) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:25:30 +0100hackagetypson-selda 0.1.0.0 - Typson Selda Integration https://hackage.haskell.org/package/typson-selda-0.1.0.0 (aaronallen8455)
2020-11-26 22:25:30 +0100b7471(~kvirc@139.30.76.203)
2020-11-26 22:25:41 +0100 <b7471> Hello
2020-11-26 22:25:50 +0100 <shapr> hi b7471
2020-11-26 22:25:50 +0100 <ski> hello
2020-11-26 22:26:05 +0100 <b7471> i have a small question
2020-11-26 22:26:11 +0100 <shapr> ooh, I have a small answer!
2020-11-26 22:26:17 +0100 <b7471> if a have a if else loop in haskell
2020-11-26 22:26:26 +0100skiwas thinking about something similar .. :)
2020-11-26 22:26:37 +0100 <shapr> hpc: yeah, it's been a few years since that was reasonable
2020-11-26 22:26:39 +0100 <b7471> and i want to print three variables
2020-11-26 22:26:42 +0100 <b7471> how do i do this
2020-11-26 22:26:51 +0100 <Rembane> b7471: What's an if-else-loop?
2020-11-26 22:26:54 +0100 <ski> perhaps you could show your current code ?
2020-11-26 22:27:11 +0100 <b7471> orderTriple(x,y,z)= if x>y && z>y then x else y
2020-11-26 22:27:17 +0100 <ski> loop x = if ..x.. then ... else loop (..x..) -- something like this ?
2020-11-26 22:27:26 +0100 <b7471> orderTriple :: (Int,Int,Int) -> Int
2020-11-26 22:27:41 +0100 <ski> hm, i see no loop in there
2020-11-26 22:27:51 +0100 <b7471> i dont want to output just x , but all the three numbers
2020-11-26 22:27:59 +0100 <ski> @index trace
2020-11-26 22:28:00 +0100 <lambdabot> Debug.Trace
2020-11-26 22:28:06 +0100 <ski> @type Debug.Trace.trace
2020-11-26 22:28:07 +0100 <lambdabot> String -> a -> a
2020-11-26 22:28:22 +0100 <b7471> the function should compare three numbers and "show" them in their orders
2020-11-26 22:28:43 +0100 <b7471> three numbers for example 1,3,2 should show 1,2,3
2020-11-26 22:29:08 +0100DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:29:13 +0100 <ski> orderTriple (x,y,z) = trace (concat ["x = ",show x,"\ny = ",show y,"\nz = ",show z,"\n"]) (if x>y && z>y then x else y)
2020-11-26 22:29:24 +0100 <ski> try something like that, after importing `Debug.Trace'
2020-11-26 22:29:32 +0100 <shapr> hpc: do you write Haskell for money?
2020-11-26 22:29:43 +0100DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-11-26 22:30:34 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-11-26 22:30:35 +0100 <ski> b7471 : but be sure to remove `trace' from the code, afterwards !
2020-11-26 22:30:43 +0100francesco_(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:31:00 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 22:31:13 +0100 <b7471> in the code i used cant i just type: then (x,y,z) else (z,x,y) ?
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2020-11-26 22:31:20 +0100f-a(~f-a@151.34.157.206)
2020-11-26 22:31:57 +0100 <hpc> shapr: yes, but unfortunately i have to write it in other languages instead ;)
2020-11-26 22:32:08 +0100kasper1(~u0_a549@cpc153669-craw9-2-0-cust163.16-3.cable.virginm.net)
2020-11-26 22:32:14 +0100 <ski> b7471 : oh, sure. you can change the result of the function from being a single `Int' to being a triple of `Int's, if you want to
2020-11-26 22:32:25 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:32:27 +0100 <ski> (but you'll need to change the type signature, to reflect that, naturally)
2020-11-26 22:32:49 +0100 <b7471> how do i print three variable instead of just one (then x else... )
2020-11-26 22:33:28 +0100 <ski> what if you try what you just said ?
2020-11-26 22:33:32 +0100 <ski> <b7471> in the code i used cant i just type: then (x,y,z) else (z,x,y) ?
2020-11-26 22:33:45 +0100pieguy128(~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-39-70-27-244-102.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in)
2020-11-26 22:34:06 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-11-26 22:36:28 +0100 <ski> shapr : fwiw, #haskell is still the channel i like most, i'd say
2020-11-26 22:36:34 +0100pieguy128(~pieguy128@bras-base-mtrlpq5031w-grc-39-70-27-244-102.dsl.bell.ca)
2020-11-26 22:36:47 +0100francesco_(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 22:37:03 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 22:38:07 +0100 <shapr> ski: I'm glad, I spent a bunch of years working on the culture.
2020-11-26 22:38:22 +0100 <shapr> not so much the past few though, I've reached the point of "time to write code instead of organize community"
2020-11-26 22:38:33 +0100 <shapr> though I'm tempted to apply to the Haskell Foundation, see if I can help out
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2020-11-26 22:39:08 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:39:12 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 22:39:46 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 22:40:03 +0100 <b7471> well it is a bit of an improvement.
2020-11-26 22:40:07 +0100andi-(~andi-@NixOS/user/andi-)
2020-11-26 22:40:14 +0100 <b7471> but i guess i will have to learn a bit more
2020-11-26 22:40:22 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117)
2020-11-26 22:40:26 +0100 <b7471> this haskell thing
2020-11-26 22:40:49 +0100Varis(~Tadas@unaffiliated/varis)
2020-11-26 22:40:58 +0100 <shapr> b7471: it's fun
2020-11-26 22:41:21 +0100 <ski> shapr : occasionally i may boast a little in other channels about how friendly and welcoming i found #haskell, when i started chatting (and still do), and how i've since attempted to bring some of the same spirit also to other channels in which i've chatted a bit more
2020-11-26 22:41:30 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 22:42:20 +0100 <ski> b7471 : got it to type-check, at least ?
2020-11-26 22:42:48 +0100 <shapr> ski: Yeah, I attribute the root of that friendly culture to SPJ
2020-11-26 22:43:25 +0100 <b7471> ski what_
2020-11-26 22:43:33 +0100 <b7471> pardon?
2020-11-26 22:43:48 +0100 <ski> it's quite possible. he's a very amiable fellow
2020-11-26 22:44:12 +0100 <b7471> i dont understand english that well
2020-11-26 22:44:16 +0100 <ski> b7471 : i mean your `orderTriple' function, after you changed it, according to your last suggestion
2020-11-26 22:44:29 +0100 <b7471> well i tryed it
2020-11-26 22:44:36 +0100 <ski> did you get an error ?
2020-11-26 22:44:40 +0100 <b7471> and it says Error whatever...
2020-11-26 22:44:41 +0100f-a(~f-a@151.34.157.206) ()
2020-11-26 22:44:42 +0100 <b7471> yes
2020-11-26 22:44:48 +0100 <ski> what was the error ?
2020-11-26 22:45:19 +0100 <b7471> just a second
2020-11-26 22:45:20 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 22:45:24 +0100dirediresalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-11-26 22:45:29 +0100DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 22:45:49 +0100 <ski> shapr : i think it's quite likely been an important factor for the success that Haskell's had
2020-11-26 22:46:06 +0100bruce_wayne(~prateekpr@94.129.87.184) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:46:25 +0100francesco_(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:46:41 +0100 <b7471> with actual type `(Int, Int, Int)' * In the expression: (x, y, y) In the expression: if x > y && z > y then (x, y, y) else y In an equation for `orderTriple': orderTriple (x, y, z) = if x > y && z > y then (x, y, y) else y | 46 | orderTriple(x,y,z)= if x>y && z>y then (x,y,y) else y | ^^^^^^^ Failed, no mod
2020-11-26 22:46:54 +0100 <b7471> lol
2020-11-26 22:46:55 +0100DTZUZU(~DTZUZU@207.81.171.116)
2020-11-26 22:47:10 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117)
2020-11-26 22:47:37 +0100 <ski> b7471 : yes, you need to change both branches of the `if'-`then'-`else' (both the expression after the `then', and the expression after the `else'), to have the same type
2020-11-26 22:47:56 +0100 <ski> you can't have one of them giving back a number, and the other three numbers
2020-11-26 22:48:11 +0100 <b7471> https://pastebin.com/PnsM6Z7U
2020-11-26 22:48:16 +0100 <ski> the caller of your function wouldn't know what to expect back
2020-11-26 22:48:37 +0100chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a7107e01f87538c6eac6d35f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 22:49:33 +0100 <b7471> hmm
2020-11-26 22:50:07 +0100 <ski> what if the caller would try to do e.g. `1 + orderTriple (2,3,4)' .. if your code was allowed, it would add `1' to a number, in case the `else' branch was taken, but try to add a number to a triple (which doesn't work, what does that even mean ?), in case the `then' branch was taken
2020-11-26 22:50:26 +0100keviv(~keviv@35.142.17.117) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 22:50:46 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:50:53 +0100oxfn(~dizzy_g@188.162.176.72)
2020-11-26 22:51:01 +0100 <ski> could you repeat your type signature for `orederTriple', btw ?
2020-11-26 22:51:05 +0100bruce_wayne(~prateekpr@94.129.87.184)
2020-11-26 22:52:01 +0100hackageipfs 1.1.5.1 - Access IPFS locally and remotely https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ipfs-1.1.5.1 (expede)
2020-11-26 22:52:22 +0100 <b7471> haskell is not like these other languages
2020-11-26 22:52:38 +0100 <b7471> maybe i not understanding it anyway
2020-11-26 22:52:42 +0100 <b7471> its getting late
2020-11-26 22:52:58 +0100 <b7471> and so i wish you guys a good night
2020-11-26 22:53:06 +0100 <ski> it's a different programming paradigm
2020-11-26 22:53:21 +0100 <ski> it always takes more time to learn a new paradigm, than to learn yet another language in one you already know
2020-11-26 22:53:25 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@i59F7FFCD.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 22:53:27 +0100dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@ptr-eitgbj2w0uu6delkbrh.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-11-26 22:53:34 +0100 <ski> learning a new one is a bit like learning to program from scratch all over
2020-11-26 22:53:34 +0100 <shapr> b7471: it's worth learning!
2020-11-26 22:53:47 +0100 <ski> good night, b7471. happy Haskell learning !
2020-11-26 22:53:51 +0100 <b7471> well we shall see
2020-11-26 22:53:56 +0100 <b7471> thanks guy
2020-11-26 22:54:02 +0100 <b7471> goodbye
2020-11-26 22:54:11 +0100 <b7471> thanks guys*
2020-11-26 22:54:27 +0100b7471(~kvirc@139.30.76.203) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
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2020-11-26 23:10:42 +0100 <incertia> is it possible to derive/write instances for type families?
2020-11-26 23:11:22 +0100 <incertia> i have data Test = A | B and type family F (t :: Test) where F 'A = Int, F 'B = Double
2020-11-26 23:11:46 +0100 <incertia> is it possible to get Eq (F t) and/or Show (F t)?
2020-11-26 23:12:05 +0100 <hpc> data Test = A | B deriving (Eq, ...)
2020-11-26 23:12:30 +0100 <hpc> oh wait, misread
2020-11-26 23:12:56 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-11-26 23:13:09 +0100 <hpc> F acts more like a type alias than a data type
2020-11-26 23:13:22 +0100 <hpc> so you should already have Eq (F t), for a specific value of t
2020-11-26 23:13:56 +0100 <incertia> right but when i stick it in a data type and try to derive ghc complains
2020-11-26 23:14:11 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-82-54-193-143.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Client Quit)
2020-11-26 23:14:22 +0100 <incertia> data MyData t = MyData { yolo :: F t } deriving (Show, Eq)
2020-11-26 23:14:47 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-11-26 23:14:59 +0100chkno(~chkno@75-7-2-127.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 23:17:02 +0100 <hpc> i think it can't figure out those are the only instances of F
2020-11-26 23:18:46 +0100 <hpc> a brute-force way past this could be GADTs
2020-11-26 23:19:20 +0100 <hpc> data MyData t where MyA :: F 'A -> MyData 'A; MyB :: etc etc
2020-11-26 23:19:31 +0100 <hpc> deriving (Show, Eq)
2020-11-26 23:19:59 +0100 <incertia> yeah problem here is there are more records in the actual case
2020-11-26 23:20:04 +0100 <incertia> which need lenses
2020-11-26 23:20:10 +0100 <ski> % data F a = F a a
2020-11-26 23:20:10 +0100 <yahb> ski:
2020-11-26 23:20:14 +0100 <ski> % data MyData t = Show (F t) => MyData { yolo :: F t }
2020-11-26 23:20:14 +0100 <yahb> ski:
2020-11-26 23:20:23 +0100 <ski> % deriving instance Show (MyData t)
2020-11-26 23:20:23 +0100 <yahb> ski:
2020-11-26 23:20:42 +0100 <hpc> oh right, that's a thing
2020-11-26 23:20:53 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-11-26 23:21:08 +0100royal_screwup21(52254809@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.37.72.9)
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2020-11-26 23:23:08 +0100Feuermagier(~Feuermagi@213.178.26.41)
2020-11-26 23:23:16 +0100 <incertia> oh cool
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2020-11-26 23:32:01 +0100honigkuchen(~honigkuch@ip5b42981b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-26 23:34:36 +0100Lycurgus(~niemand@98.4.114.74)
2020-11-26 23:39:14 +0100 <incertia> ok new problem is writing FromJSON
2020-11-26 23:40:21 +0100 <incertia> to expand a bit we have some JSON from some web service and it includes some similar structure all over the place but the actual data is different
2020-11-26 23:41:01 +0100 <incertia> namely you have this object "difficulties": {"easy": ..., "normal": ..., ...} and the values are different depending on context
2020-11-26 23:41:15 +0100 <dminuoso> Is there some library that lets be dump a Forest/Tree from containers straight into a dot file, or some other handy visualization?
2020-11-26 23:41:18 +0100 <koz_> incertia: Are they of (possibly) different types?
2020-11-26 23:41:28 +0100 <dminuoso> My graph is just so wide that drawForest/drawTree dont help much
2020-11-26 23:41:37 +0100 <incertia> one area tells you if the level is present or not and another tells you the actual level stats
2020-11-26 23:41:43 +0100CMCDragonkai1(~Thunderbi@120.18.34.2)
2020-11-26 23:41:59 +0100 <incertia> the types are the same within each grouping
2020-11-26 23:42:12 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:42:26 +0100 <koz_> incertia: So what you're saying is that "easy": might be a JSON string sometimes, and a JSON object sometimes, etc?
2020-11-26 23:42:28 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-11-26 23:42:35 +0100 <koz_> Or is "easy" _always_ a JSON string, but might look different?
2020-11-26 23:42:50 +0100 <koz_> (well, the thing associated with "easy"...)
2020-11-26 23:42:56 +0100 <koz_> (gah natural language and my own laziness)
2020-11-26 23:42:58 +0100 <incertia> it might be Bool
2020-11-26 23:43:00 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:43:01 +0100 <incertia> it might be Object
2020-11-26 23:43:14 +0100 <koz_> Easy hack: parse it the 'targets' into Value.
2020-11-26 23:43:17 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-11-26 23:43:20 +0100 <koz_> Then take them apart however you want.
2020-11-26 23:43:27 +0100 <incertia> but you are guaranteed it's either all Bools or all Objects
2020-11-26 23:43:45 +0100 <incertia> and i have a FromJSON for the object
2020-11-26 23:43:49 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:43:55 +0100 <incertia> LevelData
2020-11-26 23:44:06 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-11-26 23:44:06 +0100 <koz_> What does LevelData look like?
2020-11-26 23:44:27 +0100 <incertia> a bunch of records
2020-11-26 23:44:32 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-26 23:44:34 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:44:35 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:44:39 +0100 <koz_> Is it a sum type?
2020-11-26 23:44:43 +0100 <koz_> Or just a big record/product?
2020-11-26 23:44:48 +0100 <incertia> data LevelData = LevelData { levelDuration :: Double, levelWhatever :: Integer, ... }
2020-11-26 23:44:50 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-11-26 23:44:52 +0100 <koz_> Ah, I see.
2020-11-26 23:44:56 +0100 <incertia> so ez FromJSON here
2020-11-26 23:44:58 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-11-26 23:45:10 +0100 <koz_> So it's 'difficulties' that causes issues?
2020-11-26 23:45:21 +0100 <koz_> How do you represent (the equivalent info) in LevelData, or is this undecided?
2020-11-26 23:45:23 +0100shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:45:43 +0100 <tdammers> so... data DifficultyData = DifficultyLevel LevelData | DifficultyBool Bool -- ?
2020-11-26 23:45:59 +0100 <incertia> so now there is data LevelInfo t = LevelInfo { _infoEasy :: ObjectType t, _infoNormal :: ObjectType t }
2020-11-26 23:46:02 +0100 <incertia> etc
2020-11-26 23:46:02 +0100 <koz_> You could do a big sum like that, I guess.
2020-11-26 23:46:10 +0100 <incertia> i want to represent this via type families
2020-11-26 23:46:15 +0100 <incertia> because why not
2020-11-26 23:46:41 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, you're going to have a fun time.
2020-11-26 23:46:50 +0100 <koz_> Is the set of possible ts closed?
2020-11-26 23:46:53 +0100Ariakenom_(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-104.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-11-26 23:46:56 +0100 <incertia> yes
2020-11-26 23:47:03 +0100 <koz_> Then I would advise a different route.
2020-11-26 23:47:34 +0100 <koz_> Write a separate `FromJSON` for LevelInfo t for each t you care about.
2020-11-26 23:47:52 +0100 <incertia> i can do that?
2020-11-26 23:47:53 +0100 <koz_> If you see common behaviours, abstract out into a function.
2020-11-26 23:47:56 +0100 <koz_> Why not?
2020-11-26 23:48:02 +0100 <koz_> 'instance FromJSON (LevelInfo Bool) where...`
2020-11-26 23:48:04 +0100 <koz_> Then
2020-11-26 23:48:12 +0100 <koz_> 'instance FromJSON (LevelInfo Text) where...'
2020-11-26 23:48:13 +0100 <koz_> etc.
2020-11-26 23:48:17 +0100 <koz_> If the set of types is closed, why not?
2020-11-26 23:48:35 +0100 <incertia> holy shit you're right
2020-11-26 23:48:46 +0100mputz(~Thunderbi@dslb-084-058-211-084.084.058.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
2020-11-26 23:48:48 +0100 <koz_> Zero tyfams needed.
2020-11-26 23:48:59 +0100 <incertia> maybe something changed between what i was trying to do with Show/Eq and now
2020-11-26 23:49:06 +0100 <incertia> probably ExistentialQuantification?
2020-11-26 23:49:08 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-11-26 23:49:15 +0100koz_shrugs because he dunnos.
2020-11-26 23:49:28 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@169.244.88.92.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:49:55 +0100 <incertia> now i just have duplicated code lol
2020-11-26 23:50:05 +0100 <koz_> Then refactor out common behaviour using a function.
2020-11-26 23:50:17 +0100 <koz_> You are in a function language, HOFs exist, use them.
2020-11-26 23:50:17 +0100 <incertia> but that's parseJSON
2020-11-26 23:50:25 +0100CMCDragonkai1(~Thunderbi@120.18.34.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-11-26 23:50:27 +0100 <koz_> Well, it's not 100% duplicated right?
2020-11-26 23:50:33 +0100 <koz_> There has to be some variance.
2020-11-26 23:50:45 +0100 <koz_> s/function/functional/ argh
2020-11-26 23:51:37 +0100 <incertia> https://gist.github.com/incertia/3df23f63d1e4b17bfd5eaa6c16953fc0
2020-11-26 23:52:10 +0100 <incertia> the issue is essentially collapsing both into instance FromJSON (LevelInfo t) causes ghc to complain
2020-11-26 23:52:13 +0100 <koz_> In that case, 'instance (FromJSON a) => FromJSON (LevelInfo a) where...'.
2020-11-26 23:52:32 +0100 <koz_> Since you're basically going 'parse it however, YOLO'.
2020-11-26 23:52:38 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-11-26 23:53:01 +0100boxscape(54a35f37@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.163.95.55) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-11-26 23:53:23 +0100 <dminuoso> incertia: Unrelatedly, you might be interested in RecordWildCards for parseJSON, otherwise you risk subtle line shift bugs, especially if you extend the data types.
2020-11-26 23:53:42 +0100 <koz_> Yeah, this is one time where RecordWildCards is actually useful.
2020-11-26 23:54:16 +0100 <incertia> instance FromJSON (DiffType t) => FromJSON (LevelInfo t) suggests UndecidableInstances
2020-11-26 23:54:20 +0100 <incertia> which is highly dubious
2020-11-26 23:54:30 +0100 <koz_> It's not really.
2020-11-26 23:54:38 +0100santa_1(~santa_@217.146.82.202) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-11-26 23:54:53 +0100 <incertia> it doesn't seem so here but it would be nice to not have to turn this on
2020-11-26 23:54:54 +0100 <koz_> The name is scary, but the reality is that the Paterson conditions are _very_ restrictive.
2020-11-26 23:54:56 +0100LKoen(~LKoen@169.244.88.92.rev.sfr.net)
2020-11-26 23:55:01 +0100 <koz_> Your instance is terminating, so what's the problem?
2020-11-26 23:55:08 +0100 <dminuoso> incertia: It requires UndecidableInstances because GHC is overly conservative. The worst that can happen if you toggle it on, that GHC might get stuck type checking
2020-11-26 23:55:10 +0100 <dminuoso> That's all.
2020-11-26 23:55:16 +0100 <koz_> Like, _very very_.
2020-11-26 23:55:18 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-11-26 23:55:32 +0100 <koz_> Edward proposed a different algorithm to the Paterson conditions, but that didn't go anywhere, sadly.
2020-11-26 23:56:52 +0100 <dminuoso> koz_: Do you have a reference for that?
2020-11-26 23:57:02 +0100 <incertia> guess it makes sense to get rid of the ExistentialQuantification and just use UndecidableInstances then
2020-11-26 23:57:13 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-11-26 23:58:38 +0100 <koz_> dminuoso: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/114
2020-11-26 23:59:03 +0100 <koz_> (as an extension obv, because you know, Haskell2010 etc etc)