IRCBrowse

2020/10/30

2020-10-30 00:00:29 +0100dhouthoo(~dhouthoo@ptr-eiv6509pb4ifhdr9lsd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-30 00:00:45 +0100 <dolio> Yeah, I'm no expert, but I imagine the 'program' part isn't complicated in a lot of cases. It's making use of a bunch of already built statistics stuff, which is why you use matlab/R/etc.
2020-10-30 00:01:14 +0100 <thblt> sm[m]: My old script uses stack, it just recompiles when modified and saves in a cache dir https://github.com/thblt/hsbang
2020-10-30 00:01:28 +0100 <sm[m]> stack script does that also
2020-10-30 00:01:44 +0100 <thblt> good to know, thanks!
2020-10-30 00:01:47 +0100 <dsal> Heh. Did you reinvent nix? :)
2020-10-30 00:02:29 +0100 <sm[m]> stack script --compile, more specifically
2020-10-30 00:02:58 +0100 <yushyin> I've the same problem with cabal's script command, it does not cache and recompiles every time :/
2020-10-30 00:02:59 +0100 <thblt> No, not at all! The dependency system is all stack, all what my script did was save the compiled binary and call it instead of the source script.
2020-10-30 00:03:18 +0100 <sm[m]> yushyin: right, cabal doesn't have this feature yet
2020-10-30 00:03:56 +0100mastarija(~mastarija@93-138-85-169.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-30 00:04:52 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> dolio: The statistics part of, say R, is mostly made of wrappers around C and Fortran. One could clean up all the mess around S3 classes, S4 classes,… (S5?) and use Haskell’s FFI. But once you go in that direction, bibliometry and funding will go in your way.
2020-10-30 00:05:35 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@104.140.52.75) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 00:06:45 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-10-30 00:07:59 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> As in, folks don’t care how they get to the publications as long as there is a fast-and-loose way to get them, as you wrote.
2020-10-30 00:10:13 +0100 <dsal> almost everything I like about R is ggplot2
2020-10-30 00:10:34 +0100 <dsal> (all the other parts I relearn every time so I can get back to ggplot2)
2020-10-30 00:11:21 +0100 <sm[m]> wow, today I learned that stack script --optimize /= stack script --compile
2020-10-30 00:11:30 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> ggplot2 is great because of the Grammar of Graphics. But once you peel beyong the surface, it’s C all way down.
2020-10-30 00:11:34 +0100 <nshepperd2> ggplotly is pretty cool. the thing that takes a ggplot2 and turns it into an interactive web chart
2020-10-30 00:11:37 +0100 <sm[m]> neither are in the user guide
2020-10-30 00:13:44 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> And writing that Grammar part in R is cumbersome.
2020-10-30 00:14:33 +0100 <dsal> I've not tried fancier stuff. I've often wished for ggplot2 and d3 to like, hang out. I've done a bunch of low-level junk in D3 and high level junk in ggplot2. Can take a while to express things effectively. By the time I get to the end, I'm too tired/Stockholmed to file any usability bugs.
2020-10-30 00:14:35 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> But since there is a wide ecosystem around ggplot2, who cares about the foundations :)
2020-10-30 00:15:35 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> lol
2020-10-30 00:18:27 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> Fancier stuff in ggplot2 will involve the family of *apply* functions. Imagine if people used Hashell’s features of filtering and traversing instead of a pure Scheme.
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2020-10-30 00:18:51 +0100 <hekkaidekapus> *poor (not pure)
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2020-10-30 01:21:59 +0100 <ghoulguy> maerwald: Is ghcup 0.1.12 waiting on more testing?
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2020-10-30 01:54:52 +0100 <hyiltiz> no reason we cannot implement the graphics grammer in a haskell DSL tho
2020-10-30 01:55:20 +0100 <hyiltiz> haskell is much better suited for the task than R; in fact, ggplot only overloads (+)
2020-10-30 01:55:44 +0100 <hyiltiz> and what ggplot calls + is kinda like the monad bind
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2020-10-30 01:56:48 +0100 <hyiltiz> hadley whichman probably is also well aware of the monadic nature of his DSL; he focuses more heavily on functional these days
2020-10-30 01:56:55 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-10-30 01:57:10 +0100hackagecrdt-event-fold 1.0.0.2 - Garbage collected event folding CRDT. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/crdt-event-fold-1.0.0.2 (rickowens)
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2020-10-30 02:32:10 +0100hackagedigit 0.10 - A data-type representing digits 0-9 and other combinations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/digit-0.10 (TonyMorris)
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2020-10-30 03:02:10 +0100hackagemusicw 0.3.6 - Sound synthesis library, to be used with GHCJS and Web Audio API https://hackage.haskell.org/package/musicw-0.3.6 (dktr0)
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2020-10-30 04:23:48 +0100unihernandez22(~Unai@168.197.200.20)
2020-10-30 04:23:51 +0100 <unihernandez22> Hi
2020-10-30 04:24:27 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-30 04:24:36 +0100cabpa(~cabpa@110.54.169.154) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 04:24:36 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> Hello
2020-10-30 04:24:43 +0100 <yushyin> hello
2020-10-30 04:24:55 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-10-30 04:25:12 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> Do people not using Matrix see this Avatar icon?
2020-10-30 04:25:21 +0100 <unihernandez22> https://pastebin.com/JttfKa2t
2020-10-30 04:25:32 +0100 <unihernandez22> Is there another way to do that?
2020-10-30 04:25:41 +0100 <unihernandez22> Because it is too slow
2020-10-30 04:25:46 +0100 <jamestmartin> hyiltiz-M: I don't know what you're talking about, so I'd say probably not
2020-10-30 04:26:19 +0100 <unihernandez22> It is for these benchmarks https://github.com/jabbalaci/SpeedTests
2020-10-30 04:26:22 +0100 <sm[m]> hyiltiz-M: not even matrix users see it :) just a place holder H avatar here
2020-10-30 04:31:05 +0100theDon(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-079.citykom.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 04:31:10 +0100 <hyiltiz-M> Awesome! I'd hate to clutter everyone's IRC cache with a stupic avatar
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2020-10-30 04:34:59 +0100 <unihernandez22> Can anyone help me? :)
2020-10-30 04:35:31 +0100polyrain(~polyrain@130.102.13.189) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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2020-10-30 04:35:45 +0100ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 04:36:45 +0100 <koz_> unihernandez22: Make your cache a Vector.
2020-10-30 04:36:50 +0100 <koz_> !! on lists is not very good.
2020-10-30 04:37:30 +0100 <hyiltiz> unihernandez22: u don't seem to be using memoisation either (tho the cache variable seems to be trying to do so?)
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2020-10-30 04:40:05 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 04:40:50 +0100 <dibblego> > :t (!!) -- ftw
2020-10-30 04:40:50 +0100 <dibblego> (!!) -- ftw :: Ixed s => s -> Index s -> Maybe (IxValue s)
2020-10-30 04:40:52 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: error: <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘:’
2020-10-30 04:41:39 +0100 <unihernandez22> hyiltiz: The cache are the squares of the digits
2020-10-30 04:42:40 +0100 <hyiltiz> yeah i see that; but the rec. func. isM isn't re-uisng any of its computations, no?
2020-10-30 04:42:59 +0100 <unihernandez22> No
2020-10-30 04:43:24 +0100 <unihernandez22> Because the algorithm must be the same as the other languages, for the benchmark
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2020-10-30 04:54:09 +0100arahaelHourarahael
2020-10-30 04:54:14 +0100 <dolio> It's not a cache of the squares of digits, though.
2020-10-30 04:54:26 +0100 <unihernandez22> dolio ??
2020-10-30 04:54:42 +0100 <dolio> It's a cache of digits raised to themselves as a power.
2020-10-30 04:54:53 +0100 <unihernandez22> Oh, yes
2020-10-30 04:55:09 +0100Stanley00_(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-10-30 04:55:56 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e004c18ab60065ea01b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 04:56:10 +0100Tario(~Tario@201.192.165.173)
2020-10-30 04:56:33 +0100 <dolio> If it is supposed to be squares, using a list is almost certain to be slower.
2020-10-30 04:57:11 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-10-30 04:57:16 +0100Stanley00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 04:57:28 +0100 <unihernandez22> No, I got confused
2020-10-30 04:57:46 +0100 <unihernandez22> It's suposed to be the digits raised to themselves
2020-10-30 04:58:24 +0100Stanley|00(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2020-10-30 04:58:45 +0100 <dolio> Well, I'm unsure what would be faster in some of those scenarios. I'd probably bet on the list still being slower, I guess.
2020-10-30 04:58:58 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 04:59:22 +0100 <unihernandez22> https://pastebin.com/si3PT0Wr
2020-10-30 04:59:27 +0100 <unihernandez22> That's a bit faster
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2020-10-30 05:05:07 +0100 <Axman6> unihernandez22: btw, filter (\i -> isMunchausen i) [0 .. 440_000_000] is the same as filter isMunchausen [0 .. 440_000_000]
2020-10-30 05:06:12 +0100 <unihernandez22> Oh yes, that's because the function was different before
2020-10-30 05:07:38 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-30 05:07:45 +0100codygman(codygman@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/codygman) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:07:57 +0100 <Axman6> this feels like one of those problems that spending sometime thinking about it would let you drasticly reduce the number of numbers you needed to check
2020-10-30 05:07:58 +0100codygman(~codygman@47-184-107-46.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net)
2020-10-30 05:08:37 +0100 <Axman6> I assume there's some relatively simple relationship between calc n and calc (n+1)
2020-10-30 05:09:03 +0100 <Axman6> I find this code quite hard to follow though
2020-10-30 05:09:23 +0100 <Axman6> it feels like it's just a fold over the digits
2020-10-30 05:10:21 +0100 <unihernandez22> calc is the sum of digits raised to themselves
2020-10-30 05:10:28 +0100 <unihernandez22> as a power
2020-10-30 05:11:12 +0100 <Axman6> I would try and make things a little simpler to follow by doing something like calc = sum . map recourse . digits or something
2020-10-30 05:11:24 +0100 <Axman6> rather than passing in f to recourse
2020-10-30 05:12:21 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:12:45 +0100 <Axman6> breaking the problem down into smaller, composible parts will make it clearer what the relationship between n and n+1 is, at least
2020-10-30 05:12:53 +0100 <dsal> That `return 0` is super weird. If you got rid of that, you could also get rid of the do. And you could get rid of the lambda in the filter.
2020-10-30 05:13:12 +0100 <dsal> `main = mapM_ print $ filter isMunchausen [0 .. 440_000_000]`
2020-10-30 05:13:33 +0100 <Axman6> surprised that return 0 even type checks, but then remembered that main can have type IO a
2020-10-30 05:13:45 +0100 <Axman6> even though we always use main :: IO ()
2020-10-30 05:13:54 +0100 <dsal> Ah. I didn't realize that. I've never seen that. Yeah, I always ()
2020-10-30 05:14:44 +0100 <dolio> I don't think it actually does what is expected, though.
2020-10-30 05:15:18 +0100 <dolio> It should be `exitSuccess` if you want to do that explicitly.
2020-10-30 05:15:28 +0100 <Axman6> yeah I'm not convinced it does either... thouggh IU just realised I was parsing cache ! r + f q ad cache ! (r + f q) and not (cache ! r) + (f q)
2020-10-30 05:16:05 +0100Axman6has had about three hours sleep and struggles to type at the best of times. Good luck everybody
2020-10-30 05:16:23 +0100justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:18:26 +0100 <unihernandez22> dsal, I changed that, but the problem here is the speed
2020-10-30 05:19:10 +0100 <dsal> Sure, understood. I'm just looking at all the things. My brain can translate code without understanding it. I'm on that level right now.
2020-10-30 05:20:04 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-10-30 05:20:21 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n' in digits 12345
2020-10-30 05:20:23 +0100 <lambdabot> [5,4,3,2,1]
2020-10-30 05:20:44 +0100 <dsal> I don't understand what you're trying to do.
2020-10-30 05:21:01 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n'; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345
2020-10-30 05:21:04 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:77: error:
2020-10-30 05:21:04 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:77: error: Parse error in pattern: square
2020-10-30 05:21:21 +0100 <unihernandez22> dsal https://github.com/jabbalaci/SpeedTests
2020-10-30 05:22:19 +0100 <dsal> Ah, that's helpful.
2020-10-30 05:23:07 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n'; ; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345
2020-10-30 05:23:09 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:79: error:
2020-10-30 05:23:09 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:79: error: Parse error in pattern: square
2020-10-30 05:23:21 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in map square $ digits 12345
2020-10-30 05:23:24 +0100 <lambdabot> [3125,256,27,4,1]
2020-10-30 05:23:33 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in sum $ map square $ digits 12345
2020-10-30 05:23:35 +0100 <lambdabot> 3413
2020-10-30 05:24:01 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in map (sum . map square . digits) [1000..]
2020-10-30 05:24:04 +0100 <lambdabot> [4,4,7,30,259,3128,46659,823546,16777219,387420492,4,4,7,30,259,3128,46659,8...
2020-10-30 05:24:34 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == sum . map square . digits $ n) [1..]
2020-10-30 05:24:36 +0100 <lambdabot> error:
2020-10-30 05:24:36 +0100 <lambdabot> • Couldn't match expected type ‘(c -> c) -> Bool’
2020-10-30 05:24:36 +0100 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Bool’
2020-10-30 05:24:47 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == (sum . map square . digits $ n) [1..]
2020-10-30 05:24:50 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:155: error:
2020-10-30 05:24:50 +0100 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:155: error:
2020-10-30 05:24:50 +0100 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
2020-10-30 05:24:51 +0100 <Axman6> > let digits 0 = []; digits n = (case quotRem n 10 of (n',d) -> d : digits n') ; square n = n^n in filter (\n -> n == (sum . map square . digits $ n)) [1..]
2020-10-30 05:24:57 +0100 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
2020-10-30 05:24:58 +0100 <dsal> Doing things on one line is hard. heh
2020-10-30 05:25:23 +0100merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:26:11 +0100 <Axman6> so an interesting thing about this is that the tail of the result of digits is the same for n and n+1 unless the last digit is 10, which shows there's some caching to be had
2020-10-30 05:26:17 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:26:36 +0100 <int-e> square n = n^n?!
2020-10-30 05:26:45 +0100 <Axman6> fight me
2020-10-30 05:26:55 +0100 <dsal> dimensionate
2020-10-30 05:27:06 +0100 <Axman6> tetrate?
2020-10-30 05:27:28 +0100 <unihernandez22> int-e hahaha
2020-10-30 05:28:05 +0100_vaibhavingale_(~Adium@203.188.228.9)
2020-10-30 05:29:32 +0100drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-96.static.apol.com.tw)
2020-10-30 05:30:32 +0100 <unihernandez22> Ok... I'm going to sleep
2020-10-30 05:30:59 +0100 <int-e> smurf, frobnicate, foo, bar, baz, xyzzy, barney, fred.
2020-10-30 05:32:24 +0100 <Axman6> I thought n ^ n was tetration
2020-10-30 05:32:42 +0100 <Axman6> no
2020-10-30 05:32:58 +0100 <Axman6> it's smaller than that
2020-10-30 05:33:10 +0100 <Axman6> (me calls it pentration)
2020-10-30 05:33:26 +0100 <int-e> nah, tetration is something silly like n ^^ m = iterate (n^) n !! m
2020-10-30 05:33:32 +0100 <Axman6> yeah
2020-10-30 05:33:50 +0100cabpa(~cabpa@110.54.186.150)
2020-10-30 05:34:47 +0100 <unihernandez22> selfpow n = n ^ n
2020-10-30 05:35:14 +0100 <MarcelineVQ> dupsquare
2020-10-30 05:35:21 +0100 <Axman6> > 9 ^ 9
2020-10-30 05:35:24 +0100 <lambdabot> 387420489
2020-10-30 05:35:34 +0100 <Axman6> join (^)
2020-10-30 05:35:57 +0100 <int-e> How about `nendo n` because it counts endomorphisms from an n-element set to itself...
2020-10-30 05:36:30 +0100 <Axman6> sounds like a Star Wars character
2020-10-30 05:38:58 +0100 <Axman6> unihernandez22: btw, using Vector would make the indexing more efficient, since Arrays allow you to have arbitrary indexes, so there's alwats a conversion between your index and the underlying index into the array. Vector plus uunsafeIndex would be the best once you know it can never index out of bounds
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2020-10-30 05:40:48 +0100 <unihernandez22> Axman6, but I need it without external packages
2020-10-30 05:41:00 +0100cabpa(~cabpa@110.54.186.150)
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2020-10-30 05:45:42 +0100 <unihernandez22> Axman6, I tried directly with a function defined for each digit statically, and the speed doesn't change
2020-10-30 05:46:10 +0100 <unihernandez22> So that's not the problem
2020-10-30 05:46:46 +0100 <dsal> Yeah, it's unlikely your problem is that exponentiation is slow, but more that you're doing it more than you need to.
2020-10-30 05:47:10 +0100avoandmayo(~textual@122-58-158-238-adsl.sparkbb.co.nz) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-30 05:48:51 +0100 <unihernandez22> dsal, but with other languages it take ~5 seconds
2020-10-30 05:48:59 +0100 <unihernandez22> And with Haskell 1 minute
2020-10-30 05:49:14 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:e20::8d72) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 05:49:17 +0100 <unihernandez22> So I think I'm doing something wrong
2020-10-30 05:52:34 +0100jedws(~jedws@101.184.150.81)
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2020-10-30 05:55:35 +0100 <dsal> Let me try it...
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2020-10-30 06:07:34 +0100 <unihernandez22> Ok... Bye
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2020-10-30 06:08:01 +0100Volt_(~Volt_@c-73-145-164-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: )
2020-10-30 06:08:10 +0100 <Axman6> well I got it to 23s using LLVM, but it is still surprising it's unable to optimise it as well as the quite similar C code
2020-10-30 06:09:13 +0100tsrt^(tsrt@ip98-184-89-2.mc.at.cox.net)
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2020-10-30 06:12:13 +0100 <monsterchrom> int-e, Axman6: As in, Lando counts left Kan ("Lan") extensions? :)
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2020-10-30 06:17:35 +0100 <dsal> Yeah, this is strangely slow. Why can't my computer math faster?
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2020-10-30 08:56:30 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm, I've been pondering about whether a SelectiveDo notation makes sense.
2020-10-30 08:56:31 +0100vilpan(~0@212.117.1.172)
2020-10-30 08:56:58 +0100 <dminuoso> One of my annoyances with selective functors has been the ergonomics since you can't use do expressively
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2020-10-30 08:58:16 +0100 <dminuoso> Though things are bearable if you use `branch` a lot, such that code looks a bit if/then/else-y
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2020-10-30 10:59:26 +0100 <maerwald> ApplicativDo was a mistake imo, SelectiveDo won't be any better
2020-10-30 11:01:40 +0100hackagein-other-words 0.1.1.0 - A higher-order effect system where the sky's the limit https://hackage.haskell.org/package/in-other-words-0.1.1.0 (KingoftheHomeless)
2020-10-30 11:03:28 +0100fendor(~fendor@77.119.131.209.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-10-30 11:03:53 +0100 <merijn> ApplicativeDo is to complicated
2020-10-30 11:04:39 +0100 <Rembane> What's the syntax for ApplicativeDo? Left arrows?
2020-10-30 11:06:32 +0100 <Kolkrabe> It's the usual do-notation, IIRC
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2020-10-30 11:08:16 +0100 <merijn> Rembane: Do syntax, but with voodoo black magic deciding if it works or you get a type error
2020-10-30 11:09:26 +0100Chi1thangoo(~Chi1thang@87.112.60.168)
2020-10-30 11:09:46 +0100 <Rembane> merijn: That sounds like something I don't want in a programming language.
2020-10-30 11:10:08 +0100 <[exa]> Rembane: some people hate the applicative .. <$> .. <*> .. <*> .. noodles
2020-10-30 11:10:23 +0100 <dminuoso> Rembane: Well, think of it as a freebie.
2020-10-30 11:10:31 +0100 <dminuoso> Consider the use case of haxl
2020-10-30 11:10:48 +0100 <dminuoso> You get the expressivity of monadic code, but with automatic parallelization whenever possible
2020-10-30 11:11:00 +0100 <dminuoso> If you dont want it, you get no automatic parallelization
2020-10-30 11:11:41 +0100 <lortabac> maybe they should have added an explicit keyword for ApplicativeDo
2020-10-30 11:11:42 +0100 <Rembane> [exa]: I love them! :)
2020-10-30 11:11:52 +0100 <Rembane> dminuoso: That is a very good point though.
2020-10-30 11:13:14 +0100 <[exa]> they overloaded `do` instead of using `doA` or something?
2020-10-30 11:13:27 +0100 <lortabac> [exa]: yes
2020-10-30 11:13:30 +0100 <[exa]> I hoped that people have learned from `mdo`
2020-10-30 11:14:39 +0100cleveraware(~kali@45.133.7.43)
2020-10-30 11:14:51 +0100 <dminuoso> Introducing new keywords is very unpopular in GHC.
2020-10-30 11:15:01 +0100 <dminuoso> It causes friction every time
2020-10-30 11:15:34 +0100 <[exa]> lucky we have pretty nice isolated extensions!
2020-10-30 11:15:45 +0100 <[exa]> ( :] )
2020-10-30 11:15:54 +0100Chi1thangoo(~Chi1thang@87.112.60.168) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:15:58 +0100 <Uniaika> hmm, I think there will be an extension for having Selective do without RebindableSyntax
2020-10-30 11:16:05 +0100 <Uniaika> damnit, I can't recall its name
2020-10-30 11:16:16 +0100 <dminuoso> If there is, Id be very curious what the ergonomics is
2020-10-30 11:16:37 +0100 <dminuoso> Is it a sort of modified case-of?
2020-10-30 11:16:42 +0100 <dminuoso> a kind of `applicative-case-of`?
2020-10-30 11:17:14 +0100 <dminuoso> (That seems to be the only way that can make sense)
2020-10-30 11:18:02 +0100cabpa(~cabpa@110.54.186.150) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:20:23 +0100 <dminuoso> Such that you could do `let s :: Parser (Either L R); s = ...; in caseS s of Left x -> ...; Right x -> ...;
2020-10-30 11:20:40 +0100 <Uniaika> dminuoso: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0216-qualified-do.rst
2020-10-30 11:20:46 +0100 <Uniaika> it's QualifiedDo!
2020-10-30 11:21:06 +0100 <Uniaika> and here is the MR https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/3436
2020-10-30 11:21:07 +0100 <dminuoso> Uniaika: I recall that, but Im not sure whether it could help at all
2020-10-30 11:21:19 +0100 <dminuoso> Selective requires a case-of version, rather than a do version
2020-10-30 11:21:40 +0100 <dminuoso> But case-of has no RebindableSyntax to speak of
2020-10-30 11:21:58 +0100 <dminuoso> Or rather a weird cross between `case of` and `(>>=)`
2020-10-30 11:22:09 +0100 <[exa]> +1 ^
2020-10-30 11:22:09 +0100 <dminuoso> Without guards?
2020-10-30 11:23:05 +0100 <[exa]> they kindof "made sure this works" with having the Either type in the paper (so that a->b branch "must" be executed) but it would clearly help if the whole patternmatching mechanism was supported
2020-10-30 11:23:23 +0100 <dminuoso> [exa]: Except you can rig the same type signature with just Applicative
2020-10-30 11:23:30 +0100 <dminuoso> So the type signature alone is not strong enough
2020-10-30 11:23:41 +0100thblt(~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-10-30 11:24:19 +0100 <[exa]> still kindof thinking how's the select useful in the common case when the decision trees don't really terminate
2020-10-30 11:24:46 +0100cleveraware(~kali@45.133.7.43) ()
2020-10-30 11:25:41 +0100 <merijn> [exa]: The Selective Functor paper is pretty goood :)
2020-10-30 11:25:48 +0100 <[exa]> yeah reading it now
2020-10-30 11:25:57 +0100 <Uniaika> yes it's a good read
2020-10-30 11:26:30 +0100 <dminuoso> Im still hoping parsley will become a thing some day
2020-10-30 11:26:31 +0100 <Uniaika> as a follow-up and concrete implementation, there is also : https://github.com/kowainik/validation-selective
2020-10-30 11:26:45 +0100 <dminuoso> https://github.com/J-mie6/ParsleyHaskell
2020-10-30 11:26:52 +0100 <dminuoso> It's still being developed on
2020-10-30 11:26:57 +0100kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i7skjncktb6m9t.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-10-30 11:27:22 +0100 <Uniaika> hi kuribas :)
2020-10-30 11:27:46 +0100 <[exa]> dminuoso: is there any read on parsley?
2020-10-30 11:28:02 +0100dyamon(~dyamon@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust662.4-3.cable.virginm.net)
2020-10-30 11:28:04 +0100 <dminuoso> [exa]: There was a presenstation on Haskell eXchange 2018
2020-10-30 11:28:17 +0100 <dminuoso> But I think the skillcasts are not publically available unless you bought a ticket
2020-10-30 11:28:31 +0100 <dminuoso> (Or was it 2019?)
2020-10-30 11:28:46 +0100 <[exa]> dminuoso: can you sum it up in like 1 sentence? I can read through the code but you know... :D
2020-10-30 11:29:14 +0100 <dminuoso> [exa]: So selective is a cross between monad and applicative. You get dynamic choise based on previous results, but static analyzability.
2020-10-30 11:29:25 +0100 <dminuoso> The idea is to build a parser optimizer in template haskell using that knowledge.
2020-10-30 11:29:43 +0100 <kuribas> Uniaika: hey :)
2020-10-30 11:29:44 +0100 <dminuoso> Where TH would probe and dissect your parser, and transform it
2020-10-30 11:30:00 +0100 <[exa]> dminuoso: ooh okay
2020-10-30 11:30:29 +0100 <[exa]> I don't like the TH part but it makes sense for sure
2020-10-30 11:31:15 +0100 <dminuoso> Im not sure whether it still uses TH, but I think the demo used it
2020-10-30 11:32:03 +0100 <dminuoso> TH at least would avoid some external tooling that you need to glue into the build process
2020-10-30 11:32:47 +0100 <dminuoso> In a perfect world this would probably be a compiler plugin
2020-10-30 11:33:39 +0100 <[exa]> like the point with TH is that it's getting back to bison-ish parser processors agaon
2020-10-30 11:34:06 +0100 <[exa]> *again
2020-10-30 11:34:06 +0100 <dminuoso> except you get to describe your parser with your beloved parser combinators
2020-10-30 11:34:12 +0100vilpan(~0@212.117.1.172) ()
2020-10-30 11:34:24 +0100 <dminuoso> *and* get the benefits of the parser generator generating a better performing parser
2020-10-30 11:34:34 +0100 <dminuoso> (or perhaps even detect parser bugs)
2020-10-30 11:35:21 +0100 <[exa]> shift-reduce conflicts yay!
2020-10-30 11:35:25 +0100 <dminuoso> external tool I think is very unlikely, because of multiple modules, language extensions, etc..
2020-10-30 11:35:39 +0100hackagemodern-uri 0.3.3.0 - Modern library for working with URIs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/modern-uri-0.3.3.0 (mrkkrp)
2020-10-30 11:35:42 +0100 <dminuoso> so I think TH and compiler plugin are your only options
2020-10-30 11:35:52 +0100 <dminuoso> Unless you offload the parser combinator into a haskell-like DSL
2020-10-30 11:36:10 +0100 <[exa]> anyway you still cannot use the old-fashioned patternmatch or if in the parser b/c it wouldn't get caught by Selective, right?
2020-10-30 11:36:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Sure you can
2020-10-30 11:36:42 +0100 <dminuoso> selective just wouldnt know about it, and assume both effects can happen
2020-10-30 11:37:05 +0100[exa]puzzled now
2020-10-30 11:37:06 +0100 <dminuoso> superficially it'd just see:
2020-10-30 11:37:17 +0100 <dminuoso> branch :: Selective f => f (Either a b) -> f (a -> c) -> f (b -> c) -> f c
2020-10-30 11:37:25 +0100 <dminuoso> branch f g h
2020-10-30 11:37:29 +0100petersen(~petersen@redhat/juhp) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:37:33 +0100 <[exa]> oh the ifs are rewritten by TH?
2020-10-30 11:37:34 +0100 <dminuoso> and know that these three effects can all happen
2020-10-30 11:37:43 +0100 <dminuoso> no, the structure on selective itself
2020-10-30 11:37:45 +0100 <dminuoso> think
2020-10-30 11:37:58 +0100 <[exa]> sorry I'm probably missing something important
2020-10-30 11:37:58 +0100 <dminuoso> imagine this was written in a Free fashion
2020-10-30 11:38:10 +0100 <dminuoso> with Monad you couldnt realistically go in and manipulate much
2020-10-30 11:38:11 +0100DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-30 11:38:15 +0100 <dminuoso> (even if its a free monad)
2020-10-30 11:38:22 +0100 <dminuoso> thta is, manipulate without changing the meaning
2020-10-30 11:38:42 +0100 <dminuoso> the core issue is
2020-10-30 11:38:45 +0100 <dminuoso> % :t (>>=)
2020-10-30 11:38:45 +0100 <yahb> dminuoso: Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
2020-10-30 11:38:57 +0100DirefulSalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-10-30 11:38:59 +0100 <[exa]> yeah, you can get new effects from "environment"
2020-10-30 11:39:06 +0100 <[exa]> (with monads)
2020-10-30 11:39:18 +0100 <dminuoso> Is an optimization barrier. To optimize into >>= it would require GHC to analyze the function itself, leading very quickly to halting problems
2020-10-30 11:39:38 +0100 <dminuoso> or not just optimization, but introspection
2020-10-30 11:39:49 +0100 <dminuoso> consider optparse-applicative otoh, which can statically give you informatoin about the parser structure
2020-10-30 11:39:53 +0100 <dminuoso> it can tell you exactly what flags are possible
2020-10-30 11:40:21 +0100 <[exa]> yeah that's understood, that is impossible with (Appl|Select)ives
2020-10-30 11:40:25 +0100 <dminuoso> but optparse applicative does not have the power to say "if you first specify -f, then we accept another flag -g, otherwise we accept -h in additoin"
2020-10-30 11:40:57 +0100 <dminuoso> selective gives you that power, while allowing the tooling to analyze and tell you `-f/-g/-h` are possible
2020-10-30 11:41:20 +0100 <dminuoso> so some optparse-selective could give you dynamic choices, while maintaining the analyzability to generate help pages from
2020-10-30 11:41:27 +0100 <dminuoso> the reason is
2020-10-30 11:41:34 +0100 <[exa]> oh I get it now sorry
2020-10-30 11:41:39 +0100 <dminuoso> if it sees `branch f g h`, then it knows all `f, g and h` are possible
2020-10-30 11:42:15 +0100 <dminuoso> equivalent to how `(,,) <$> f <*> g <*> h` lets you know that all `f, g and h` are possible
2020-10-30 11:42:18 +0100 <[exa]> the confusion was that I somehow expected that you could have 2 branches of code that are switched by a simple 'if' (outside of selective) but that's impossible b/c you don't have >>= to extract the boolean
2020-10-30 11:42:50 +0100 <dminuoso> Right, the branching in selective functors is constrained to `select/branch`
2020-10-30 11:43:08 +0100 <dminuoso> Which is why I said that the equivalent to do-notation would be some version of `case-of`
2020-10-30 11:43:15 +0100 <dminuoso> So instead of saying
2020-10-30 11:43:26 +0100 <dminuoso> `branch f (branch g h i) j k`
2020-10-30 11:43:29 +0100 <dminuoso> you might be able to say
2020-10-30 11:43:44 +0100 <typetetris> Whats a small server side rendering web framework to look at?
2020-10-30 11:43:57 +0100 <dminuoso> caseS f of G -> ...; H -> ...; I -> ...; J -> ...
2020-10-30 11:44:03 +0100 <typetetris> Especially for creating easy links between pages.
2020-10-30 11:44:21 +0100 <dminuoso> Where caseS is a "sort-of" constrained version of bind
2020-10-30 11:45:02 +0100 <dminuoso> But such a thing would require some first-class way of specifying generic pattern matching
2020-10-30 11:45:42 +0100 <dminuoso> typetetris: you can just use servant or scotty?
2020-10-30 11:46:11 +0100 <[exa]> hm, lenses? `caseS :: [ (Prism ... , sel) ] -> sel -> sel`
2020-10-30 11:46:54 +0100 <typetetris> dminuoso: now you mention it, there is a link creating function in servant?
2020-10-30 11:47:23 +0100 <dminuoso> typetetris: Mmm, perhaps you could concoct such a thing yourself?
2020-10-30 11:47:41 +0100 <dminuoso> Add some type combinator to tag endpoints
2020-10-30 11:47:43 +0100 <[exa]> typetetris: I used scotty and just made a small function that gave the correct link to given routes
2020-10-30 11:48:02 +0100 <dminuoso> Such that you can say `Tag "foo" :> "foo" :> Get '[] NoContent`
2020-10-30 11:48:13 +0100 <[exa]> typetetris: if I got it correctly you basically want to make sure that rendered html anchors match what's in routing?
2020-10-30 11:48:18 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2020-10-30 11:48:42 +0100 <[exa]> dminuoso: anyway thanks for explanation :]
2020-10-30 11:48:54 +0100 <dminuoso> And then pull out the route through some `getUrl :: (KnownSymbol k, MonadFail m) => Proxy k -> m Url`
2020-10-30 11:49:02 +0100 <dminuoso> With some magic machinery that needs to be written
2020-10-30 11:49:17 +0100 <typetetris> [exa]: yes
2020-10-30 11:49:20 +0100_noblegas(uid91066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sqjfvivbwmtlawjw)
2020-10-30 11:49:26 +0100 <dminuoso> That would be some real type tetris right there.
2020-10-30 11:49:37 +0100 <merijn> dminuoso: Please make optparse-selective so I won't have to ;)
2020-10-30 11:49:47 +0100 <typetetris> dminuoso: I knew, I need to change my nickname some time ... :(
2020-10-30 11:49:57 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 11:50:04 +0100 <dminuoso> typetetris: I think it should be quite possible, in fact.
2020-10-30 11:50:11 +0100 <dminuoso> ANd useful
2020-10-30 11:50:20 +0100 <typetetris> dminuoso: I think it is already there :)
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2020-10-30 11:50:53 +0100flx_(flux@coffee.modeemi.fi)
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2020-10-30 11:51:15 +0100cocreature(~cocreatur@eirene.uberspace.de)
2020-10-30 11:51:35 +0100 <[exa]> merijn: hopefully that could finally allow the global options leaking to subparsers :]
2020-10-30 11:51:46 +0100 <dminuoso> typetetris: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/servant-0.16.2/docs/Servant-Links.html
2020-10-30 11:51:50 +0100 <merijn> [exa]: That's already fixed, I think?
2020-10-30 11:51:56 +0100 <[exa]> merijn: O_O
2020-10-30 11:52:04 +0100dexterfoo(dexter@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe86:59ec)
2020-10-30 11:52:06 +0100 <dminuoso> typetetris: Would that work for you?
2020-10-30 11:52:11 +0100[exa]opens docs
2020-10-30 11:52:31 +0100 <merijn> [exa]: https://github.com/pcapriotti/optparse-applicative/issues/294
2020-10-30 11:52:41 +0100Jon(jon@dow.land) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:52:48 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Quit: Someone ate my pie)
2020-10-30 11:52:52 +0100 <typetetris> dminuoso: I will take a look at it.
2020-10-30 11:53:05 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfd1ztq5fjywfw3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
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2020-10-30 11:53:05 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-10-30 11:53:11 +0100 <[exa]> merijn: w o n d e r f u l
2020-10-30 11:53:23 +0100 <dminuoso> Personally, I'd try very hard to avoid yesod. I'd take any pain to get links with servant instead :p
2020-10-30 11:53:25 +0100 <merijn> [exa]: It's even on hackage already :)
2020-10-30 11:53:52 +0100Jon(~jon@redmars.org)
2020-10-30 11:54:23 +0100 <typetetris> What is that selective thing you are talking about?
2020-10-30 11:54:24 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:54:40 +0100hackagemu-schema 0.3.1.1 - Format-independent schemas for serialization https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mu-schema-0.3.1.1 (AlejandroSerrano)
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2020-10-30 11:55:13 +0100mflux(flux@coffee.modeemi.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-30 11:55:21 +0100flx_mflux
2020-10-30 11:55:57 +0100 <[exa]> merijn: are there any code changes required? (I'm on optparse 0.16)
2020-10-30 11:56:01 +0100 <merijn> typetetris: Selective functors
2020-10-30 11:56:16 +0100 <merijn> [exa]: The changelog has some stuff on how to enable it
2020-10-30 11:56:24 +0100 <dminuoso> Ah what I wouldnt give for "disabling the type system" for just a moment, so I could build [1,[2,3,4],5,6,[7,8]] and flatten it...
2020-10-30 11:56:26 +0100 <[exa]> great, thanks
2020-10-30 11:56:26 +0100 <merijn> or disable? I don't remember
2020-10-30 11:56:30 +0100 <dminuoso> Is there any cool tricks to build lists like that?
2020-10-30 11:57:04 +0100 <merijn> typetetris: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/selective
2020-10-30 11:57:17 +0100 <merijn> typetetris: See the paper linked in the docs for an explanation of the niche it fills
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2020-10-30 11:59:11 +0100p-core(~Thunderbi@2001:718:1e03:5128:2ab7:7f35:48a1:8515)
2020-10-30 12:00:11 +0100 <[exa]> back to selectives...this sounds like a great way to describe DFAs (and regexes)
2020-10-30 12:00:15 +0100lyxia(~lyxia@poisson.chat) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-30 12:00:55 +0100andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
2020-10-30 12:03:24 +0100[exa]takes a huge melting pot and combines alternative+selective
2020-10-30 12:04:59 +0100whatisRT(~whatisRT@2002:5b41:6a33:0:cdb:717d:49e3:4e14)
2020-10-30 12:06:04 +0100carlomagno(~cararell@148.87.23.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 12:09:35 +0100 <[exa]> merijn: anyway it's off by default, enabled by `prefs $ subparserInline <> helpShowGlobals`, thanks a lot!
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2020-10-30 12:11:49 +0100 <Uniaika> dminuoso: not that I know of :/
2020-10-30 12:12:03 +0100 <Uniaika> except maybe building your own AST of values and operating on it
2020-10-30 12:15:11 +0100hackagemu-protobuf 0.4.0.1 - Protocol Buffers serialization and gRPC schema import for Mu microservices https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mu-protobuf-0.4.0.1 (AlejandroSerrano)
2020-10-30 12:15:45 +0100 <dminuoso> Well, Im just using a slightly modifivation of Writer
2020-10-30 12:16:01 +0100cfricke(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
2020-10-30 12:16:08 +0100 <dminuoso> newtype ListW e a = ListW { unListW (Writer [e] a) }
2020-10-30 12:16:22 +0100 <dminuoso> with some putE :: e -> ListW e (); putEs :: [e] -> ListW e ();
2020-10-30 12:16:36 +0100Stanley00_(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) ()
2020-10-30 12:17:04 +0100 <dminuoso> So I can do `execList $ do { putE a; putEs bs; putE c; putE; d; putEs es }`
2020-10-30 12:17:37 +0100__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
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2020-10-30 12:19:13 +0100 <Uniaika> that's uh… that's a way to do it indeed :D
2020-10-30 12:21:35 +0100 <dminuoso> an alternative is just `[a] <> bs <> [c] <> [d] <> es` and align it nicely vertically
2020-10-30 12:21:43 +0100 <dminuoso> Perhaps Ill just do that and not care
2020-10-30 12:22:39 +0100hackagemegaparsec 9.0.1 - Monadic parser combinators https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.0.1 (mrkkrp)
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2020-10-30 12:23:39 +0100hackagemegaparsec-tests 9.0.1 - Test utilities and the test suite of Megaparsec https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-tests-9.0.1 (mrkkrp)
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2020-10-30 12:43:21 +0100 <dexterfoo> i am using: cabal v2-build how can i see which versions of dependencies are being used?
2020-10-30 12:43:52 +0100geekosaur(ac3a3b6a@172.58.59.106)
2020-10-30 12:44:21 +0100 <dminuoso> dexterfoo: you can use cabal-plan
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2020-10-30 12:52:59 +0100 <kuribas> dminuoso: I think you want DList?
2020-10-30 12:54:01 +0100lyxia(~lyxia@poisson.chat)
2020-10-30 12:54:10 +0100 <kuribas> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dlist
2020-10-30 12:54:33 +0100 <kuribas> which is basically Endo
2020-10-30 12:54:35 +0100 <kuribas> :t Endo
2020-10-30 12:54:37 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> a) -> Endo a
2020-10-30 12:55:40 +0100FreeBirdLjj(~freebirdl@101.228.42.108)
2020-10-30 12:57:10 +0100 <kuribas> DList creates a tree internally, then you flatten it to a list
2020-10-30 12:57:20 +0100 <kuribas> in linear time
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2020-10-30 13:15:03 +0100 <merijn> dexterfoo: That depends why you wanna know :p
2020-10-30 13:16:29 +0100 <merijn> If the reason is, say, "because I wanna get a reproducible configuration" then the answer is "you probably want (v2-)freeze"
2020-10-30 13:17:20 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@223.213.166.96)
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2020-10-30 13:27:57 +0100 <dminuoso> Mmm. Im starting to approach 150k lines of Haskell code for this library..
2020-10-30 13:28:15 +0100 <dminuoso> Compilation times are getting worse every day...
2020-10-30 13:28:16 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@223.213.166.96)
2020-10-30 13:28:27 +0100bgamari(~bgamari@2001:470:e438::1) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-30 13:29:30 +0100 <dminuoso> All for the sake of type safety. I should have build this codec library with runtime dictionaries, and some Dynamic sprinkling.
2020-10-30 13:34:05 +0100bgamari(~bgamari@72.65.123.7)
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2020-10-30 13:39:42 +0100 <__monty__> Is this a single-person codebase?
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2020-10-30 13:43:37 +0100 <dminuoso> Yes.
2020-10-30 13:43:40 +0100 <dminuoso> code generated
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2020-10-30 13:43:56 +0100codygman(~codygman@47-184-107-46.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net)
2020-10-30 13:44:02 +0100 <dminuoso> If I went the Dynamic route, this would probably be a 500-1000 lines thing
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2020-10-30 13:50:01 +0100 <tomsmeding> I'm waiting for the day when ghc can meaningfully compile modules of a single package in parallel with speedup factor actually reasonably close the number of threads
2020-10-30 13:50:16 +0100 <tomsmeding> that day I shall be happy
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2020-10-30 13:57:23 +0100 <merijn> tomsmeding: The parallelism there is limited by the dependency graph of your modules
2020-10-30 13:57:43 +0100 <tomsmeding> I know, I have extensive experience with building makefiles ;)
2020-10-30 13:57:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> currently ghc doesn't even try though
2020-10-30 13:58:11 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e5396e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 13:58:19 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a)
2020-10-30 13:58:27 +0100 <tomsmeding> the -j option only compiles a single module using multiple threads, I think, and I find that to give marginal to no speedup in practice
2020-10-30 13:58:49 +0100knupfer1(~Thunderbi@HSI-KBW-046-005-192-105.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
2020-10-30 13:59:00 +0100 <tomsmeding> running multiple ghc's in parallel with 'make' suffers from lots of ghc overhead I'm told, though I actually haven't tried that recently...
2020-10-30 13:59:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> (and also doesn't play nice with cabal and friends)
2020-10-30 13:59:41 +0100 <merijn> Well, there's Shake ;)
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2020-10-30 14:12:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> that replaces the 'make' in my messages above, doesn't it?
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2020-10-30 14:30:49 +0100 <bahamas> can you handle multiple patterns differently in a lambda?
2020-10-30 14:31:08 +0100danvet(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa)
2020-10-30 14:31:18 +0100 <geekosaur> not without an explicit case
2020-10-30 14:31:33 +0100 <geekosaur> (or lambdacase, I guess)
2020-10-30 14:34:33 +0100alp_(~alp@88.126.45.36)
2020-10-30 14:35:15 +0100pta2002(~quassel@104.248.23.110)
2020-10-30 14:35:21 +0100 <bahamas> I see
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2020-10-30 15:09:42 +0100 <maerwald> I'm also not too pleased with our syntactic options there
2020-10-30 15:10:21 +0100 <maerwald> but if you use multiwayif...
2020-10-30 15:12:02 +0100thblt(~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt)
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2020-10-30 15:17:10 +0100mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@5.74.129.53)
2020-10-30 15:19:10 +0100hackagemmsyn2 0.3.1.0 - The library that can be used for multiple (Ord a) => a -> b transformations https://hackage.haskell.org/package/mmsyn2-0.3.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 15:19:58 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@185.229.59.52)
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2020-10-30 15:29:30 +0100pera(~pera@unaffiliated/pera)
2020-10-30 15:30:16 +0100 <texasmynsted> I was reading about haskell deployments and the article talked about upx to compress the executable. It looks like a win. Does anybody here use it for their haskell deployments?
2020-10-30 15:30:19 +0100 <texasmynsted> https://upx.github.io
2020-10-30 15:32:14 +0100bennofs1(~benno@dslb-188-106-225-242.188.106.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-10-30 15:33:33 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: I think upx is a terrible and dumb idea
2020-10-30 15:33:33 +0100sam___(~sam@169.15.23.93.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-30 15:33:40 +0100 <texasmynsted> lol why?
2020-10-30 15:33:43 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: What, exactly, do you expect to win by it?
2020-10-30 15:34:09 +0100 <maerwald> upx sometime breaks binaries, depending on the algorithm
2020-10-30 15:34:17 +0100 <texasmynsted> faster deployments because the executable is smaller. Take up less space on the server.
2020-10-30 15:34:23 +0100 <texasmynsted> Hmm.
2020-10-30 15:34:27 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: Is that really a problem, though?
2020-10-30 15:34:40 +0100 <maerwald> I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of it. Is there any proof that it's the same binary?
2020-10-30 15:34:43 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.184.85) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-30 15:34:46 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: How big are your binaries that this is a significant bottleneck?
2020-10-30 15:34:47 +0100 <texasmynsted> not one worth breaking binaries over
2020-10-30 15:34:54 +0100elfets(~elfets@ip-37-201-23-96.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de)
2020-10-30 15:35:07 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: If you want smaller binaries trying using --enable-split-sections and stripping the binary first
2020-10-30 15:35:39 +0100texasmynstedreads about --enable-split-sections
2020-10-30 15:35:42 +0100 <merijn> Especially split sections, which can have an order of magnitude shrink if you have tons of dependencies
2020-10-30 15:35:54 +0100 <merijn> (it does mean you'll have to rebuild everything first :))
2020-10-30 15:36:02 +0100 <texasmynsted> If I had to choose, I would rather have a faster binary than a smaller one
2020-10-30 15:37:01 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: Basically, split sections lets you only like relevant portions of your dependencies. So if you only use 1 or 2 functions from, say, lens and lens was compiled with split-sections you pull only a fraction of lens' compiled code into your executable
2020-10-30 15:37:25 +0100 <merijn> In terms of "impact per effort" it's probably the lowest fruit for Haskell binaries (together with stripping)
2020-10-30 15:37:54 +0100 <texasmynsted> wow, why is this not the default?
2020-10-30 15:38:24 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: Because older linkers don't support it and only made it into GHC fairly recently (a few years ago I recent to me!)
2020-10-30 15:38:33 +0100 <texasmynsted> ah okay
2020-10-30 15:38:36 +0100 <texasmynsted> Thank you.
2020-10-30 15:38:46 +0100 <merijn> Safer to make it "opt in" then risk breaking toolchains
2020-10-30 15:39:14 +0100 <texasmynsted> I need to find a ghc news site or something so I can learn these tricks
2020-10-30 15:39:19 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: I would say if binaries are smaller than, say 20 MB it's not worth any effort to go smaller (and even for biggers ones it might not be worth it)
2020-10-30 15:39:32 +0100mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@5.74.129.53) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-10-30 15:39:41 +0100 <maerwald> well, GHC is already hard to get working on systems that don't have ld.gold
2020-10-30 15:39:44 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: I recommend skimming the very good and often overlooked GHC user guide every so often and reading the release notes for new GHCs
2020-10-30 15:39:52 +0100 <merijn> @where userguide
2020-10-30 15:39:53 +0100 <lambdabot> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/
2020-10-30 15:39:56 +0100 <maerwald> so not sure backwards compat is hat important
2020-10-30 15:40:54 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: haskell-cafe, haskell-libraries and ghc-devs mailing lists are also a good way to keep an eye on things, they're not that high traffic
2020-10-30 15:41:16 +0100 <merijn> And lurking in #ghc of course :p
2020-10-30 15:41:39 +0100st8less(~st8less@inet-167-224-197-181.isp.ozarksgo.net) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-10-30 15:41:55 +0100ullbeking(sid5364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bnsgobzuoimopxhi) ()
2020-10-30 15:43:49 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 15:44:55 +0100GyroW_GyroW
2020-10-30 15:45:00 +0100 <texasmynsted> :-)
2020-10-30 15:45:02 +0100 <texasmynsted> Thank you
2020-10-30 15:45:10 +0100hackagesnap-server 1.1.2.0 - A web server for the Snap Framework https://hackage.haskell.org/package/snap-server-1.1.2.0 (GregoryCollins)
2020-10-30 15:45:15 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net)
2020-10-30 15:45:25 +0100st8less(~st8less@2603:a060:11fd:0:609b:358e:1371:386d)
2020-10-30 15:45:30 +0100 <merijn> But yeah, release notes for new features and the user guide are the most instructive usually
2020-10-30 15:45:53 +0100 <merijn> texasmynsted: Like, there's an entire section on runtime tweaking and speeding up stuff that I think 80% of people aren't aware off
2020-10-30 15:46:01 +0100 <merijn> (and getting smaller binaries!)
2020-10-30 15:46:09 +0100 <texasmynsted> I am reading that now actually
2020-10-30 15:46:25 +0100 <texasmynsted> (I did not look for, or know it existed before)
2020-10-30 15:46:40 +0100justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
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2020-10-30 15:50:02 +0100GyroW(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) ("Someone stepped on the pi")
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2020-10-30 15:52:29 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@223.213.166.96)
2020-10-30 15:52:59 +0100texasmynsted(~texasmyns@185.229.59.3)
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2020-10-30 15:57:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> (reading section 9 in the ghc user's guide...)
2020-10-30 15:57:58 +0100 <tomsmeding> "One time when Float might be a good idea is if you have a lot of them, say a giant array of Floats. They take up half the space in the heap compared to Doubles. However, this isn’t true on a 64-bit machine."
2020-10-30 15:58:38 +0100 <tomsmeding> this reminds me of the discussion here yesterday(?) aobut Word types in ghc all being 8 bytes long due to their definition being e.g. 'data Word8 = Word8 #Word'
2020-10-30 15:58:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> s/#Word/Word#/
2020-10-30 15:59:04 +0100 <tomsmeding> is this the same kind of thing with Float/Double? That sounds stupid
2020-10-30 15:59:15 +0100stef204(~stef204@unaffiliated/stef-204/x-384198)
2020-10-30 15:59:20 +0100 <dolio> Even on 32-bit, they're more than half if boxed.
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2020-10-30 16:00:02 +0100rlaager1(~rlaager@84.39.116.180) ()
2020-10-30 16:00:55 +0100 <tomsmeding> okay true, boxing reduces space saving, but then with boxing all space bets are off anyway
2020-10-30 16:01:25 +0100 <__monty__> Hmm, angerman just said something about Word sizing in #ghc, so *maybe* there's work towards changing that?
2020-10-30 16:01:55 +0100 <dolio> Apparently there is a Word8#, but Word8 doesn't use it.
2020-10-30 16:02:16 +0100 <angerman> Yes. Word8 = W8# Word8#, Int8 = I8# Int8# is coming.
2020-10-30 16:02:30 +0100 <tomsmeding> ah! neat stuff
2020-10-30 16:02:50 +0100 <dolio> I'm not sure how big Word8# actually is, though. There's also Float# that Float actually uses, so it might actually be smaller than Double, unless alignment makes that not happen.
2020-10-30 16:03:25 +0100 <tomsmeding> Float# adjacent to Float# should theoretically not induce any padding for alignment
2020-10-30 16:03:38 +0100 <angerman> it's just really annoying to get it in. It's necessary for apple silicon support, as arm64 (that's aarch64 in fruity speak) has a rather funky procedure calling convention for C, where it packs function arguments by their size on the stack.
2020-10-30 16:03:42 +0100 <tomsmeding> (at least, extrapolating from C :p)
2020-10-30 16:03:49 +0100 <dolio> I think that'd be the idea.
2020-10-30 16:03:59 +0100 <angerman> So if you FFI into something it needs to be 4byte int32 on the stack, not just 8bytes for every arg.
2020-10-30 16:04:28 +0100 <tomsmeding> ah of course this is one of the many things pushed by the ARM work you are doing angerman :)
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2020-10-30 16:09:55 +0100philip_(~philip@92.40.170.16.threembb.co.uk)
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2020-10-30 16:18:57 +0100 <tomsmeding> in a simple test, an unboxed array from Data.Array.UArray with Floats indeed takes ~4*num_elements bytes of memory, whereas the same with Doubles takes ~8*num_bytes of memory
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2020-10-30 16:19:11 +0100geowiesnot(~user@i15-les02-ix2-87-89-181-157.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-10-30 16:19:52 +0100aarvar(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
2020-10-30 16:20:26 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e5396e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 16:20:59 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I'm trying to build stm from source https://github.com/haskell/stm. The testsuite has a bound base < 4.14 so I can't configure it. What's going on?
2020-10-30 16:22:34 +0100 <merijn> tomjaguarpaw: the main package only had its dependency bumped a month ago, so maybe they forgot to bump the testsuite?
2020-10-30 16:22:45 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Ah, I'll try just doing that.
2020-10-30 16:22:46 +0100ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168)
2020-10-30 16:22:53 +0100 <merijn> CI isn't testing 8.10 yet either
2020-10-30 16:22:56 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> How would I build /without/ the test suit, in any case?
2020-10-30 16:23:00 +0100mokulus(~mat@176.111.230.96) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 16:23:04 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I tried --disable-tests
2020-10-30 16:25:19 +0100 <dolio> The cabal file doesn't actually have a test suite.
2020-10-30 16:25:41 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I think it's pulled in by cabal.project
2020-10-30 16:25:43 +0100 <merijn> dolio: There's a testsuite + cabal file in the testsuite directory and cabal.project pulls it in
2020-10-30 16:25:44 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 16:26:35 +0100 <dolio> Right, so you should build only the stm package, probably.
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2020-10-30 16:27:28 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-10-30 16:27:41 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.180.36)
2020-10-30 16:28:10 +0100dhil(~dhil@195.213.192.107)
2020-10-30 16:28:31 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> How would I do that? cabal v2-build stm doesn't seem to work.
2020-10-30 16:28:37 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Nor does cabal v2-build .
2020-10-30 16:28:42 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> I'm not sure what the incantation is
2020-10-30 16:29:02 +0100 <merijn> Just comment out the two lines in cabal.project? :p
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2020-10-30 16:32:44 +0100 <dolio> Possibly `.:stm` would work. I'm not super familiar with the syntax for specifying things.
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2020-10-30 16:33:44 +0100softwarm(4408f588@ip68-8-245-136.sd.sd.cox.net)
2020-10-30 16:34:33 +0100 <angerman> tomsmeding: I think it's also going to possibly provide some foundation for SIMD optimisations; let's see.
2020-10-30 16:37:26 +0100dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin)
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2020-10-30 16:41:37 +0100 <tomsmeding> that would be very nice, more optimisations is always a good thing
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2020-10-30 16:44:09 +0100hackagepolysemy-fskvstore 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a filesystem in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-fskvstore-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact)
2020-10-30 16:47:21 +0100 <mananamenos> hi, `f a b $ f c d $ f w z` is there a way rewrite this this call in some way so that `f` appears once only/
2020-10-30 16:47:37 +0100xerox_(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox)
2020-10-30 16:48:02 +0100 <mananamenos> `f a b $ f c d $ f w z []`, sorry, meant to write this
2020-10-30 16:48:12 +0100 <__monty__> (\g -> g a b $ g c d $ g w z []) f
2020-10-30 16:48:47 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 16:48:56 +0100 <dminuoso> mananamenos: Can you share a bit more context perhaps?
2020-10-30 16:50:16 +0100 <dminuoso> `f a b (f c b (f w z))` looks like a list, so a recursion scheme could fit.
2020-10-30 16:51:54 +0100 <mananamenos> dminuoso, just playing with concepts..yes you're probably right, it is recursion scheme that would fit best
2020-10-30 16:52:05 +0100 <merijn> Or just uncurry + map
2020-10-30 16:52:15 +0100 <merijn> ah, no, not quite
2020-10-30 16:52:23 +0100 <dminuoso> uncurry + foldr
2020-10-30 16:52:30 +0100 <dminuoso> or, rather curry + foldr
2020-10-30 16:52:32 +0100brandonhamilton(~brandonha@2001:19f0:6c01:1579:5400:2ff:fee8:d636)
2020-10-30 16:52:35 +0100 <dminuoso> uh
2020-10-30 16:52:39 +0100 <merijn> :t uncurry
2020-10-30 16:52:41 +0100 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c
2020-10-30 16:52:44 +0100 <dminuoso> I always mix them up
2020-10-30 16:52:49 +0100 <merijn> same
2020-10-30 16:54:59 +0100xnt14(~xnt14@185.204.1.185)
2020-10-30 16:55:51 +0100solonarv(~solonarv@astrasbourg-653-1-117-122.w90-33.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-10-30 16:56:35 +0100hnOsmium0001(uid453710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msjovqkiidznwkye)
2020-10-30 16:56:35 +0100mbomba(~mbomba@bras-base-toroon2719w-grc-49-142-114-9-241.dsl.bell.ca)
2020-10-30 16:59:42 +0100raichoo(~raichoo@dslb-188-101-191-075.188.101.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-10-30 17:01:09 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e004c18ab60065ea01b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 17:01:36 +0100 <mananamenos> thanks
2020-10-30 17:01:51 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:e20::8f6e) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:03:04 +0100brandonhamilton(~brandonha@2001:19f0:6c01:1579:5400:2ff:fee8:d636) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-10-30 17:06:10 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e004c18ab60065ea01b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:07:58 +0100Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.103)
2020-10-30 17:08:25 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:10:15 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-10-30 17:11:28 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 17:11:31 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109-252-20-20.nat.spd-mgts.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:12:05 +0100giorgoskos(~giorgosko@athedsl-4372657.home.otenet.gr)
2020-10-30 17:12:40 +0100 <giorgoskos> any hacker here?
2020-10-30 17:13:39 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 17:13:40 +0100geekosaur(82659a09@host154-009.vpn.uakron.edu)
2020-10-30 17:13:59 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-10-30 17:14:13 +0100toorevitimirp(~tooreviti@117.182.180.36) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:14:28 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@2a02:908:4b18:e20::f733)
2020-10-30 17:15:46 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 17:16:08 +0100 <ghoulguy> giorgoskos, yes, how can I help you?
2020-10-30 17:16:27 +0100 <giorgoskos> i need someone to help me to hack someone facebook
2020-10-30 17:17:02 +0100 <Uniaika> wtf
2020-10-30 17:18:02 +0100 <giorgoskos> any help?
2020-10-30 17:18:14 +0100 <ghoulguy> giorgoskos, ah OK. You're on the wrong network.
2020-10-30 17:18:33 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:18:35 +0100 <giorgoskos> were i go?
2020-10-30 17:18:44 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:18:48 +0100 <ghoulguy> giorgoskos, try Google
2020-10-30 17:19:02 +0100 <giorgoskos> and?
2020-10-30 17:19:06 +0100 <ghoulguy> and search
2020-10-30 17:19:23 +0100 <giorgoskos> i found this site for hacks
2020-10-30 17:19:27 +0100 <giorgoskos> on google
2020-10-30 17:19:31 +0100ChanServ+q *!*@79.130.40.161
2020-10-30 17:19:32 +0100 <monsterchrom> "We are not a directory service either."
2020-10-30 17:20:20 +0100giorgoskos(~giorgosko@athedsl-4372657.home.otenet.gr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:20:41 +0100xiinotulp(~q@ppp-223-24-190-153.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:21:06 +0100 <monsterchrom> I inflicted shift/reset on my students today. They are now thoroughly turned inside-out.
2020-10-30 17:21:07 +0100xiinotulp(~q@ppp-49-237-16-83.revip6.asianet.co.th)
2020-10-30 17:21:33 +0100 <monsterchrom> I also caught a chance to say "now we shift gear to..."
2020-10-30 17:22:10 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-10-30 17:24:35 +0100 <koz_> Not gonna lie - I didn't get shift/reset until I saw their Cont-based type sigs.
2020-10-30 17:24:47 +0100 <koz_> Then I was like 'oh, so _that's_ what they do, huh'.
2020-10-30 17:25:04 +0100 <dolio> Which ones?
2020-10-30 17:25:39 +0100thblt(~thblt@unaffiliated/thblt) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
2020-10-30 17:25:52 +0100 <texasmynsted> sigh Haskell cafe keeps telling my my email address is invalid. Oh well.
2020-10-30 17:26:53 +0100seveg(~gabriel@2a02-ab04-0249-8d00-7d49-c4e2-4790-91c2.dynamic.v6.chello.sk)
2020-10-30 17:26:54 +0100 <Uniaika> texasmynsted: oh?
2020-10-30 17:27:02 +0100texasmynstedshrug
2020-10-30 17:27:04 +0100 <texasmynsted> yes
2020-10-30 17:27:18 +0100 <monsterchrom> Today I showed Racket's shift/reset. But I think I will have a chance to show Haskell's Cont and runCont next month.
2020-10-30 17:27:22 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 17:27:24 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 17:27:26 +0100 <texasmynsted> May try another day.
2020-10-30 17:27:31 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net)
2020-10-30 17:27:38 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 17:29:15 +0100livvy(~livvy@gateway/tor-sasl/livvy)
2020-10-30 17:29:36 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:30:18 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com)
2020-10-30 17:30:35 +0100 <koz_> dolio: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Cont.html#v:reset and https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.5.6.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Cont.html#v:shift
2020-10-30 17:32:08 +0100 <dolio> koz_: Oh, those aren't the good ones. :Þ
2020-10-30 17:32:43 +0100 <dolio> The good ones are `reset :: Cont r r -> r` and `shift :: ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a`
2020-10-30 17:32:43 +0100 <monsterchrom> "shift = ContT" is the good one :)
2020-10-30 17:32:55 +0100 <monsterchrom> err, shift = Cont
2020-10-30 17:32:58 +0100 <dolio> Yeah.
2020-10-30 17:33:29 +0100 <monsterchrom> http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml#shift-reset
2020-10-30 17:33:40 +0100 <monsterchrom> but it may be better to start from the beginning.
2020-10-30 17:33:44 +0100 <dolio> They show you how the effect scoping works in the types.
2020-10-30 17:34:25 +0100 <monsterchrom> http://blog.sigfpe.com/2011/10/quick-and-dirty-reinversion-of-control.html for more confusion :)
2020-10-30 17:35:57 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-10-30 17:36:41 +0100 <dolio> ContT is fine, too. It's incorporating other effects.
2020-10-30 17:37:41 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.185.200)
2020-10-30 17:37:49 +0100dbmikus(~dbmikus@cpe-76-167-86-219.natsow.res.rr.com)
2020-10-30 17:39:20 +0100obihann(~jhann@156.34.160.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:39:49 +0100 <dolio> I haven't really thought about it, but you might be able to make sense of multi-prompt continuations that way, with multiple ContTs.
2020-10-30 17:40:09 +0100obihann(~jhann@156.34.160.69)
2020-10-30 17:40:43 +0100kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2020-10-30 17:40:44 +0100 <monsterchrom> I think sigfpe or you or someone else wrote a blog on that.
2020-10-30 17:40:45 +0100Chi1thangoo(~Chi1thang@87.112.60.168)
2020-10-30 17:41:02 +0100 <monsterchrom> but the limitation is it is statically scoped prompts, not dynamic prompts.
2020-10-30 17:41:22 +0100 <monsterchrom> Then again dynamic prompts can be error-prone like all dynamic things.
2020-10-30 17:41:33 +0100nihilazo(nihilazoma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ccdjrllyhlmzbsrl) ("User left")
2020-10-30 17:42:07 +0100 <texasmynsted> monsterchrom: I would like to see your presentation on Haskell's Cont. Will it be available online?
2020-10-30 17:43:06 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) (Read error: No route to host)
2020-10-30 17:44:50 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-79-36-167-172.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-10-30 17:46:54 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-30 17:47:03 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-10-30 17:47:33 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-10-30 17:48:25 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net)
2020-10-30 17:48:57 +0100 <dexterfoo> hSeek gives error "invalid argument" when trying to seek more than approx 16 TB. (15TB or less works). is this a known bug?
2020-10-30 17:49:18 +0100 <texasmynsted> Okay, I do not know why this is bothering me but . . . I have a String. It may contain a '/' as its last character. I am testing for this by reversing the string and pattern matching '/': _ ->
2020-10-30 17:49:52 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 17:50:12 +0100 <texasmynsted> This seems bad because while the strings will never be infinite, reverse feels like an unnecessary expense. Is there a better way?
2020-10-30 17:51:02 +0100chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a70a4101f96c699b406ffa93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:51:05 +0100 <kuribas> texasmynsted: nope
2020-10-30 17:51:10 +0100 <geekosaur> last str == '/' ?
2020-10-30 17:51:11 +0100 <kuribas> or don't use String, use Text
2020-10-30 17:51:31 +0100 <monsterchrom> texasmynsted: http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont.xhtml
2020-10-30 17:51:34 +0100 <koala_man> is it a directory? if so, don't bother and just concatenate to form foo//bar
2020-10-30 17:51:35 +0100 <kuribas> there is no way to avoid traversing the String
2020-10-30 17:52:04 +0100 <monsterchrom> "Extra credit for getting it to run on an Apple II or a Commodore 64" >:)
2020-10-30 17:52:26 +0100 <texasmynsted> koala_man: It is a URL, but I only need to add index.html if the last character is /
2020-10-30 17:52:28 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 17:53:45 +0100 <koala_man> if it's a URL you should probably use a proper URL parser. Consider e.g. https://example.com/?id=42#bar
2020-10-30 17:54:12 +0100 <texasmynsted> `last` requires that the string be non-empty. Pattern matching would avoid that restriction.
2020-10-30 17:55:24 +0100 <texasmynsted> I will look for a URL parser.
2020-10-30 17:56:01 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-10-30 17:56:21 +0100sfvm(~sfvm@37.228.215.148)
2020-10-30 17:56:23 +0100 <dexterfoo> never mind, it seems that hSeek detects the filesystem of the handle and gives "invalid argument" error when trying to seek past the maximum supported file size
2020-10-30 17:56:32 +0100idhugo(~idhugo@users-1190.st.net.au.dk) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:56:48 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 17:57:02 +0100 <texasmynsted> The final output has to be String, so using Text to preform the test seems like I may pay more
2020-10-30 17:57:04 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:57:16 +0100cosimone(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:d849:743b:370b:b3cd)
2020-10-30 17:59:12 +0100p8m(p8m@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/p8m) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 17:59:46 +0100 <monsterchrom> Use both null and last if the string may be empty. Or write your own recursion.
2020-10-30 17:59:52 +0100geowiesnot(~user@87-89-181-157.abo.bbox.fr)
2020-10-30 18:00:12 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: My Laptop has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-30 18:00:41 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-10-30 18:01:05 +0100Jonkimi727406120(~Jonkimi@223.213.166.96) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:01:28 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-10-30 18:02:11 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 18:02:13 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> [__1] skipping: base-4.14.0.0 (has the same characteristics that caused the
2020-10-30 18:02:14 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> previous version to fail: excluded by constraint '^>=4.13.0' from
2020-10-30 18:02:14 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> 'haddock-api')
2020-10-30 18:02:34 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> ^^ does that make sense to anyone? ^>=4.13.0 surely matches 4.14.0 doesn't it?
2020-10-30 18:02:34 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 18:02:58 +0100jakob_(~textual@p200300f49f16220014c54729be697eb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-10-30 18:03:30 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e5396e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 18:03:52 +0100sam___(~sam@141.104.204.77.rev.sfr.net) (Read error: No route to host)
2020-10-30 18:03:54 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e5396e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 18:04:53 +0100 <texasmynsted> thank you monsterchrom
2020-10-30 18:04:59 +0100 <geekosaur> I thought the leading ^ meant it didn't (makes it follow PVP, so 4.14 is out of scope for 4.13)
2020-10-30 18:05:06 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-30 18:05:24 +0100rusua(uid124537@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tukvvfoeealcalpr)
2020-10-30 18:05:54 +0100 <texasmynsted> if the string is empty it does not require manipulation, so the _anythingElse part of the pattern match is fine
2020-10-30 18:06:04 +0100mokulus(~mat@176.111.230.96)
2020-10-30 18:06:44 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:07:29 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com)
2020-10-30 18:07:39 +0100vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-10-30 18:09:37 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> geekosaur: Oh, is that what it means
2020-10-30 18:09:39 +0100 <tomjaguarpaw> Thanks
2020-10-30 18:09:50 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a)
2020-10-30 18:12:09 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-10-30 18:14:23 +0100sam___(~sam@78.148.22.93.rev.sfr.net)
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2020-10-30 18:16:03 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e004c18ab60065ea01b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 18:16:58 +0100bartemius(~bartemius@109.252.20.20)
2020-10-30 18:17:10 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-plus 0.1.0.0 - Some common shared between different packages functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-plus-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 18:17:20 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a)
2020-10-30 18:17:42 +0100Kingpatzer(~user@c-73-5-166-112.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 18:20:10 +0100ubert(~Thunderbi@p200300ecdf1e5396e6b318fffe838f33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:21:28 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:22:19 +0100gehmehgeh(~ircuser1@gateway/tor-sasl/gehmehgeh)
2020-10-30 18:22:20 +0100bliminse(~bliminse@host109-158-129-241.range109-158.btcentralplus.com)
2020-10-30 18:23:08 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> hey folks, quick (i hope) and likely dumb question: I just
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> started worknig through cis194 and I would like to print
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> out the results from the "testWhatWentWrong" function as
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> one string per line. Some google fu got me to "mapM_
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> putStrLn [String]" but that fails with an error because
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> testWhatWentWrong returns IO [String] and not plain
2020-10-30 18:24:45 +0100 <Kingpatzer> [String]. Anyway I can accomplish just printnig each
2020-10-30 18:24:46 +0100 <Kingpatzer> string on it's own line?
2020-10-30 18:24:56 +0100 <Kingpatzer> oops, sorry about that, pasting didn't work as intended
2020-10-30 18:24:58 +0100 <ghoulguy> Kingpatzer: please do not paste into your IRC client
2020-10-30 18:25:05 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a)
2020-10-30 18:25:30 +0100coot(~coot@37.30.51.206.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
2020-10-30 18:25:53 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 18:26:36 +0100 <tomsmeding> Kingpatzer: 'testWhatWentWrong >>= mapM_ putStrLn' perhaps? or using do-notation, 'do result <- testWhatWentWrong ; mapM_ putStrLn result'
2020-10-30 18:27:04 +0100mastarija(~mastarija@93-136-65-246.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2020-10-30 18:27:53 +0100 <Kingpatzer> that worked tomsmeding. thanks!
2020-10-30 18:28:14 +0100sam___(~sam@78.148.22.93.rev.sfr.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:28:50 +0100alp_(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:2d4f:a367:8a30:586b) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:29:21 +0100idhugo(~idhugo@80-62-116-101-mobile.dk.customer.tdc.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-10-30 18:30:57 +0100jbox(~atlas@unaffiliated/jbox)
2020-10-30 18:32:44 +0100 <tomsmeding> Kingpatzer: both mean exactly the same thing; >>= is what do-notation "desugars" (converts) to intermally
2020-10-30 18:32:52 +0100nineonine(~textual@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
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2020-10-30 18:33:14 +0100 <tomsmeding> you use >>= to "continue" your program having access to the value within the monad, here IO
2020-10-30 18:33:23 +0100alp_(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:a94e:f7d6:8198:b42c)
2020-10-30 18:33:42 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
2020-10-30 18:33:50 +0100 <tomsmeding> (hooks in nicely in the discussion of continuations just now...)
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2020-10-30 18:34:57 +0100 <monsterchrom> For IO we write in callback style. Do you "extract the answer". Supply a callback that receives the answer.
2020-10-30 18:35:14 +0100 <monsterchrom> or even s/that receives/to receive/
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2020-10-30 18:35:35 +0100 <monsterchrom> http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/IO.xhtml
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2020-10-30 18:35:55 +0100 <monsterchrom> OTOH CIS194 would not have you dabble in IO without first teaching you this.
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2020-10-30 18:36:52 +0100 <monsterchrom> It's pure effectless functional programming for the first 70% at least.
2020-10-30 18:37:17 +0100 <tomsmeding> as it should be
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2020-10-30 18:50:00 +0100 <mantovani> exit
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2020-10-30 20:10:29 +0100 <joel135> What are the most important haskell libraries to know?
2020-10-30 20:11:25 +0100 <maerwald> unix
2020-10-30 20:11:43 +0100 <yushyin> base?
2020-10-30 20:13:03 +0100 <geekosaur> mtl?
2020-10-30 20:13:40 +0100thir(~thir@p200300f27f0b7e004c18ab60065ea01b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 20:14:59 +0100 <monsterchrom> What kind of question is that?
2020-10-30 20:15:30 +0100 <monsterchrom> If it's for a job interview tomorrow, it's already too late.
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2020-10-30 20:15:43 +0100 <joel135> I don't know if it was a good question.
2020-10-30 20:16:11 +0100 <monsterchrom> It is a poor question. Only exam crammers would need to know.
2020-10-30 20:16:15 +0100 <maerwald> It's something you'd say on a dating app if you matched with a haskeller... so to get their attention
2020-10-30 20:16:43 +0100 <dsal> joel135: The most important haskell libraries to know are the ones that you use the most when building code to do the thing you care about the most.
2020-10-30 20:16:57 +0100 <monsterchrom> Yeah, that.
2020-10-30 20:17:00 +0100 <joel135> I get that tautology.
2020-10-30 20:17:26 +0100 <maerwald> the standad lib base isn't that great, but you'll have to use it anyway
2020-10-30 20:17:39 +0100 <monsterchrom> The people I know are the people known to everyone who knows everyone I know.
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2020-10-30 20:19:15 +0100 <dsal> I like sqlite-simple. I use it a bunch. And optparse-applicative, though I'm open to trying some new ones.
2020-10-30 20:19:30 +0100elosant(~elosant@gateway/tor-sasl/elosant)
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2020-10-30 20:20:09 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-vector 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the functionality of the uniqueness-periods-vector package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-vector-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 20:20:39 +0100obihann(~jhann@156.34.160.69)
2020-10-30 20:21:05 +0100sulu(~sulu@unaffiliated/sulu)
2020-10-30 20:21:09 +0100hackagepolysemy-kvstore-jsonfile 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a single json file in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-kvstore-jsonfile-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-10-30 20:21:39 +0100 <dsal> I'm seeing more polysemy stuff. Still not used it, and the last news I read about it made it seem like a hoax.
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2020-10-30 20:21:58 +0100 <maerwald> it's slow
2020-10-30 20:22:45 +0100 <maerwald> just use IO
2020-10-30 20:22:50 +0100tput(~tput@S0106a84e3fe54613.ed.shawcable.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 20:23:02 +0100 <dsal> Yeah, there was initially magic about how it erased all the overhead at compile time and made extremely efficient code and then later... that didn't happen.
2020-10-30 20:23:42 +0100 <maerwald> even if it did trigger the right optimistions, it's a fragile gamble, hence the eff approach from alexi
2020-10-30 20:24:22 +0100 <maerwald> but I don't even know if we will see that any time soon either
2020-10-30 20:25:05 +0100 <monsterchrom> That triggered the GHC proposal to add first-class continuations.
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2020-10-30 20:29:08 +0100 <dsal> joel135: Can you expand on the nature of your question a bit?
2020-10-30 20:29:35 +0100Athas(athas@sigkill.dk)
2020-10-30 20:30:01 +0100 <dsal> My favorite "this library makes things way easier in Haskell than other languages" are STM, async, lens, megaparsec, etc...
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2020-10-30 20:31:00 +0100 <dsal> The amazonka stuff is pretty good. And conduit.
2020-10-30 20:31:48 +0100 <joel135> I have known about haskell for a long time, and have during this time learned a lot about the lambda calculus, but the haskell libraries are still as foreign to me as they were at the beginning.
2020-10-30 20:31:52 +0100 <maerwald> conduit is an example of an over-engineered API imo
2020-10-30 20:33:10 +0100 <maerwald> streamly seems much more idiomatic haskell, but it's a bit less polished
2020-10-30 20:33:34 +0100 <maerwald> and a lot faster
2020-10-30 20:34:06 +0100 <dsal> I wasn't sure about conduit... It's served me pretty well, but yeah, I've not looked hard for something else.
2020-10-30 20:34:09 +0100 <merijn> I'd argue that streamly is both much more complex and much more over-engineered than conduit >.>
2020-10-30 20:34:18 +0100 <sm[m]> joel135: a good start is to get familiar with what's in base
2020-10-30 20:34:26 +0100 <dsal> I don't have experience with alternatives to conduit.
2020-10-30 20:34:39 +0100 <merijn> streamly's API is super complex and the use of MonadBase/MonadBaseControl is terrible, because those typeclasses are terrible
2020-10-30 20:35:24 +0100 <joel135> I am tring out some posix functions right now; maybe it can be good to read through base at some level of detail later unless that's too big of a task.
2020-10-30 20:36:05 +0100 <dsal> joel135: It takes me some effort to study things for the sake of studying them. I have to put a need between myself and my learning goals most of the time. I've got a lot of pragmatic Haskell code for things I do.
2020-10-30 20:36:16 +0100bitmapper(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgstvrwzsmauzxyr) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-10-30 20:37:29 +0100 <dsal> I was kind of annoyed that I couldn't find a pread implementation that worked when I was doing a thing that needed it. Then I found one, and the change required to use it was going to be too large to be worth it.
2020-10-30 20:37:29 +0100 <joel135> What does that mean? "put a need between myself and my learning goals"
2020-10-30 20:37:50 +0100 <dsal> I learn stuff by intending to use it to solve a real problem I have.
2020-10-30 20:38:00 +0100Franciman(~francesco@host-79-36-167-172.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-10-30 20:38:11 +0100 <sm[m]> joel135: to be clear, and echoing dsal: learning all of base is way overkill for starter projects. But you can at least skim the modules and you'll know where to look later
2020-10-30 20:38:23 +0100 <dsal> Or, at the very least, something like Advent of Code.
2020-10-30 20:38:35 +0100 <Franciman> Hi, I would like to implement the matrix protocol in haskell
2020-10-30 20:38:53 +0100 <Franciman> anybody likes the idea?
2020-10-30 20:38:57 +0100 <dsal> Yeah. There are *tons* of things I've "learned" in the sense of having seen before, but "Why would I ever need this?" Then one day realizing, "Holy crap, I need a way to do that thing!"
2020-10-30 20:40:33 +0100 <sm[m]> Franciman: great idea, please do. But first problem is a name - hmatrix is taken
2020-10-30 20:40:56 +0100 <joel135> Yes, maybe that is what I should rather do - find a good motivating project first.
2020-10-30 20:41:03 +0100 <Franciman> sm[m], I thought about this name: linearfunction
2020-10-30 20:41:07 +0100 <Franciman> but it's cringe
2020-10-30 20:41:12 +0100 <monsterchrom> hahaha
2020-10-30 20:41:14 +0100 <sm[m]> facepalm :)
2020-10-30 20:41:26 +0100wroathe_(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 20:41:33 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-10-30 20:42:11 +0100wroathe_wroathe
2020-10-30 20:42:14 +0100 <dsal> Franciman: I've never used Matrix, but I like implementing protocols.
2020-10-30 20:42:31 +0100 <dsal> Franciman: I've created a lot of projects just because I thought of a stupid name and had to build a project around it.
2020-10-30 20:42:45 +0100notzmv(~user@unaffiliated/zmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-10-30 20:42:53 +0100 <Franciman> this is cool
2020-10-30 20:43:10 +0100hackagepolysemy-extra 0.1.0.0 - Run a KVStore as a filesystem in polysemy. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-extra-0.1.0.0 (locallycompact)
2020-10-30 20:44:39 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-common 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-common package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-common-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 20:44:41 +0100 <dsal> joel135: I do a lot of stuff on the commandline. Learning something like optparse-applicative is a prerequisite for doing anything kind of complicated.
2020-10-30 20:44:45 +0100 <Franciman> if we can lower the power of google by the means of matrix and haskell, it would be great
2020-10-30 20:45:21 +0100 <dsal> Is matrix an anti-google thing?
2020-10-30 20:45:42 +0100 <Franciman> it's a tool I guess, if we can use it as anti-google
2020-10-30 20:45:44 +0100 <Franciman> then yes
2020-10-30 20:45:48 +0100 <Franciman> otherwise no
2020-10-30 20:46:22 +0100 <sm[m]> it's a decentralising thing
2020-10-30 20:46:47 +0100 <Franciman> maybe it could be used for classrooms
2020-10-30 20:46:52 +0100 <dsal> joel135: One example of stuffing a bunch of junk into a small very useful (to me) project is https://github.com/dustin/waitforsocket -- I use it to tell when a machine is done rebooting or when a web server is working, or whether I have connectivity, etc... It has a few different parsers for stuff and some fun use of async.
2020-10-30 20:47:03 +0100 <Franciman> instead of damn mircosoft, zoom, google et al
2020-10-30 20:47:06 +0100 <dsal> I don't quite understand matrix vs. xmpp. I used to do a lot of stuff with xmpp
2020-10-30 20:47:28 +0100 <Franciman> eheh neither do I dsal, they are similar, but have different philosophies I guess
2020-10-30 20:47:39 +0100 <dsal> Oh, says it right there: "Matrix is really a decentralised conversation store rather than a messaging protocol."
2020-10-30 20:48:04 +0100 <sm[m]> some more discussion here dsal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17064616
2020-10-30 20:48:09 +0100 <dsal> The downside is I already use irc and discord and dumb work chat and Signal.
2020-10-30 20:48:36 +0100 <dsal> "The core Matrix team maintains bridges to Slack, IRC, XMPP and Gitter, and meanwhile the wider Matrix community provides bridges for Telegram, Discord, WhatsApp, Facebook, Hangouts, Signal and many more." -- maybe that's an upside?
2020-10-30 20:49:09 +0100 <Franciman> the problem is that I can't even implement irc protocol
2020-10-30 20:49:15 +0100 <Franciman> and matrix is harder ahah
2020-10-30 20:49:24 +0100 <sm[m]> yes, matrix is really good at bridging to other networks. I've used it as my IRC client for a good while now
2020-10-30 20:49:26 +0100 <dsal> Can't, or haven't?
2020-10-30 20:50:21 +0100 <Franciman> I tried, I failed
2020-10-30 20:50:23 +0100 <joel135> dsal: I'll take your waitforsocket as a small case study :)
2020-10-30 20:50:25 +0100 <sm[m]> I also participate in some gitter channels (IHP)
2020-10-30 20:50:35 +0100 <Franciman> man the world is full of chats
2020-10-30 20:50:51 +0100 <dsal> joel135: It's meant for inspiration. How to have a small goal and fill it with learnings. I've implemented that in like, four languages now. Haskell's worked the best. heh
2020-10-30 20:50:55 +0100 <sm[m]> slack of course doesn't want to be bridged
2020-10-30 20:51:52 +0100 <dsal> farn__: Failing is important. I've failed at just about everything I've tried.
2020-10-30 20:51:57 +0100 <dsal> er, Franciman damnit
2020-10-30 20:52:42 +0100 <dsal> I've eventually got a few things stable enough that they work pretty well and I don't want to change them. Someone filed a quite reasonable bug against my mqtt client I've not figured out how to deal with. (I'm guessing matrix can't be harder than mqtt).
2020-10-30 20:53:26 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.185.200) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 20:53:52 +0100 <Franciman> true
2020-10-30 20:54:28 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.185.200)
2020-10-30 20:57:46 +0100alp_(~alp@88.126.45.36)
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2020-10-30 21:03:37 +0100 <texasmynsted> I often am unable to reach this channel from Matrix by their bridge
2020-10-30 21:03:53 +0100 <texasmynsted> I gave up trying so using limechat now.
2020-10-30 21:03:56 +0100texasmynstedshrug
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2020-10-30 21:10:10 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-common 0.1.1.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-common package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-common-0.1.1.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 21:10:35 +0100nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:ad14:3020:5d05:5ba3:751c:f26a)
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2020-10-30 21:15:39 +0100hackagepolysemy-path 0.0.1.0 - Polysemy versions of Path functions. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/polysemy-path-0.0.1.0 (locallycompact)
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2020-10-30 21:18:25 +0100 <maerwald> sm[m]: I used slack in weechat, but slack API seems to be unreliable, often diconnecting the client. And then the feature creep doesn't translate well to terminal
2020-10-30 21:18:58 +0100 <maerwald> like ppl post 200 LOC of some code and it messes up your entire terminal
2020-10-30 21:19:47 +0100 <dminuoso> indeed, slack in weechat is a horrid experience
2020-10-30 21:20:52 +0100_deepfire(~user@80.92.100.69) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-10-30 21:21:28 +0100 <jjhoo> slack... that thing that doesn't seem to handle formatting ```if this block is too long``` for an outgoing webhook (legacy thing, maybe things are better with slack apps)
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2020-10-30 21:27:10 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-general 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-general functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-general-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
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2020-10-30 21:50:29 +0100Tario(~Tario@200.119.185.200)
2020-10-30 21:52:47 +0100 <sm[m]> texasmynsted: strange, I access it 24/7
2020-10-30 21:53:10 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-properties 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-properties package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-properties-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 21:53:12 +0100texasmynstedshrug
2020-10-30 21:54:10 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 21:54:17 +0100 <texasmynsted> I put a few days/weeks as a limit for troubleshooting. After that I figured it would be faster to use something else.
2020-10-30 21:54:30 +0100 <texasmynsted> I am fine with limechat for now
2020-10-30 21:55:13 +0100 <texasmynsted> It worked okay for me for some channels, but not others. I think the more traffic the channel, the less likely it worked for me over the bridge.
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2020-10-30 22:00:02 +0100achadwick(~achadwick@84.39.117.57) ()
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2020-10-30 22:09:39 +0100hackagepredicate-typed 0.7.4.1 - Predicates, Refinement types and Dsl https://hackage.haskell.org/package/predicate-typed-0.7.4.1 (gbwey)
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2020-10-30 22:29:43 +0100 <taio> A question about Haskell's terms: Type constructors are functions at the type level that return a type when fully applied. But how are such structures called ?: Num :: * -> Constraint
2020-10-30 22:29:56 +0100 <taio> A type class constructor or a constraint constructor?
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2020-10-30 22:30:48 +0100 <icebreaker> join ##trading
2020-10-30 22:31:15 +0100 <icebreaker> sorry guys 😅
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2020-10-30 22:43:12 +0100 <monsterchrom> Num is a type class.
2020-10-30 22:43:23 +0100britva(~britva@31-10-157-156.cgn.dynamic.upc.ch)
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2020-10-30 22:43:34 +0100 <monsterchrom> This shows that generally if you see Foo :: * -> Constraint, Foo is a type class.
2020-10-30 22:44:16 +0100 <monsterchrom> Well OK maybe I forgot equality constraints, which you wouldn't call that.
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2020-10-30 22:47:27 +0100britva(~britva@31-10-157-156.cgn.dynamic.upc.ch)
2020-10-30 22:49:18 +0100Gurkenglas(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
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2020-10-30 22:52:44 +0100 <monsterchrom> Amazing, my program that uses HXT written in 2015 still builds today.
2020-10-30 22:52:46 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 22:53:00 +0100p-core(~Thunderbi@2001:718:1e03:5128:2ab7:7f35:48a1:8515)
2020-10-30 22:53:02 +0100 <jbox> I've been trying to get a haskell dev environment set up
2020-10-30 22:53:12 +0100 <jbox> should I use ghcup or stack to install everything?
2020-10-30 22:53:33 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
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2020-10-30 22:53:56 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70)
2020-10-30 22:53:58 +0100 <maerwald> are you a beginner? What platform?
2020-10-30 22:54:09 +0100acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p200300d0c72260940830e3b8f3af47a8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-10-30 22:54:20 +0100conal(~conal@64.71.133.70) (Client Quit)
2020-10-30 22:54:40 +0100 <taio> Thanks for the answer. I know Num is a type class. my question was about what to call this function, e.g. a constraint constructor?
2020-10-30 22:55:32 +0100 <dolio> You should only call it a constructor if it makes sense to match on it with e.g. a type class.
2020-10-30 22:56:42 +0100 <jbox> maerwald: I'm a beginner. I'm trying to get a dev environment set up so I can use xmonad. I'm on Arch Linux
2020-10-30 22:56:43 +0100 <monsterchrom> :)
2020-10-30 22:56:56 +0100 <monsterchrom> I like dolio's criterion.
2020-10-30 22:57:44 +0100 <maerwald> jbox: it seems xmonad README suggest to use cabal, so I'd go with ghcup + cabal. But it also supports stack
2020-10-30 22:57:46 +0100 <byorgey> jbox: if you just want to use xmonad, probably easiest to use ghcup, then install xmonad with cabal
2020-10-30 22:58:33 +0100 <byorgey> jbox: also, you should feel free to hang out and ask questions in #xmonad too
2020-10-30 22:58:39 +0100 <jbox> I tried installing xmonad with my distro package managers first, and it worked out of the box, but it gave me problems when I tried to configure anything, so I'm doing it the "right" way now haha
2020-10-30 22:58:51 +0100 <jbox> byorgey: gotcha, thank you :)
2020-10-30 22:58:54 +0100 <jbox> maerwald: thank you :)
2020-10-30 22:59:39 +0100britva(~britva@31-10-157-156.cgn.dynamic.upc.ch) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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2020-10-30 23:03:33 +0100wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-10-30 23:06:09 +0100hackagephonetic-languages-examples 0.1.0.0 - A generalization of the uniqueness-periods-vector-examples functionality. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/phonetic-languages-examples-0.1.0.0 (OleksandrZhabenko)
2020-10-30 23:08:49 +0100hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d176049.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
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2020-10-30 23:09:27 +0100hekkaidekapus_hekkaidekapus
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2020-10-30 23:10:21 +0100heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 23:11:17 +0100 <flux41> does anyone have a good beginner reference for kinds
2020-10-30 23:11:26 +0100knupfer(~Thunderbi@mue-88-130-61-065.dsl.tropolys.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-10-30 23:11:27 +0100 <flux41> been reading through 5-6 tutorials with no success
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2020-10-30 23:14:52 +0100 <DigitalKiWicked> does https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xmonad not work?
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2020-10-30 23:19:57 +0100 <jbox> whenever I try to launch stack or xmonad, I get an error like "error while loading shared libraries: libHSbase-4.14.1.0-ghc8.10.2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
2020-10-30 23:20:05 +0100 <jbox> and the .so file is different each time
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2020-10-30 23:22:47 +0100christo(~chris@81.96.113.213)
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2020-10-30 23:25:06 +0100 <maerwald> jbox: do you have a GHC installed via pacman?
2020-10-30 23:26:40 +0100 <jbox> maerwald: I have ghc 8.8.4 isntalled via ghcup
2020-10-30 23:27:03 +0100 <maerwald> why is something picking ghc-8.10.2 then
2020-10-30 23:27:14 +0100 <jbox> oh, I also have it installed through pacman LOL
2020-10-30 23:27:16 +0100 <jbox> thank you
2020-10-30 23:27:22 +0100 <maerwald> uninstall that
2020-10-30 23:27:45 +0100 <maerwald> also, you can tell cabal which ghc to use: cabal build -w ghc-8.8.4
2020-10-30 23:28:14 +0100 <jbox> ghc is required by xmonad. Should I not install xmonad via pacman either?
2020-10-30 23:28:24 +0100 <jbox> I haven't even built anything yet hahaha
2020-10-30 23:28:34 +0100 <jbox> I've screwed this up so bad
2020-10-30 23:28:37 +0100 <maerwald> I'd not install anything haskell-ish via pacman
2020-10-30 23:28:46 +0100 <sm[m]> flux41: kinds aren't a beginner topic I think
2020-10-30 23:30:06 +0100 <jbox> maerwald: gotcha, thank you
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2020-10-30 23:36:30 +0100 <crestfallen> hi a member was helping me with this program and wrote the evaluation to resolve to Nothing. So I'm a bit confused, because (with one or two possible mistakes) I thought the evaluation would look something like this: https://termbin.com/2b34
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2020-10-30 23:38:50 +0100ensyde(~ensyde@99-185-235-117.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net)
2020-10-30 23:38:50 +0100 <crestfallen> I believe I have errors on lines 2 and/or 3: too many or too few Add 's ..
2020-10-30 23:39:17 +0100 <crestfallen> please critique
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2020-10-30 23:42:20 +0100 <crestfallen> yeah I guess the 2 Just constructors in the left branch on line 4 are also wrong
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2020-10-30 23:49:05 +0100 <crestfallen> ok I think the member wrote two different evaluations; one with map for Maybe and one for Traversable
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2020-10-30 23:51:20 +0100 <crestfallen> no, actually thoroughly baffled still..
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2020-10-30 23:52:07 +0100 <crestfallen> this is probably the correct evaluation: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7TIQdWo7
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