2020/09/24

2020-09-24 00:00:02 +0200	<phadej>	ok sorry, indeed existential is `Sigma Type id`
2020-09-24 00:00:14 +0200	<ixlun>	Hi all, I'm trying to bootstrap cabal-install and I'm getting this error: http://ix.io/2yyb
2020-09-24 00:00:23 +0200	<ixlun>	Just wondered if anyone has any ideas?
2020-09-24 00:00:29 +0200	nbloomf	(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:a8a2:2518:6bde:e621)
2020-09-24 00:01:06 +0200	parsnip	(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruqytqnmciyoyqlr)
2020-09-24 00:01:17 +0200	<monochrom>	Are you sure you must bootstrap cabal-install?
2020-09-24 00:01:29 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 00:01:33 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-09-24 00:01:35 +0200	<parsnip>	lazy question: Couldn't match type ‘JsonResponse a0’ with ‘Value’
2020-09-24 00:02:03 +0200	<parsnip>	expected Req Value, actual Req (JsonResponse a0)
2020-09-24 00:02:05 +0200	<monochrom>	ghc-9.1 release candidate?!
2020-09-24 00:02:06 +0200	<dolio>	They are extensionally equal.
2020-09-24 00:02:09 +0200	<EvanR>	you basically claimed that the existential above effectively loses information
2020-09-24 00:02:24 +0200	<dolio>	Yes, hiding information is the purpose of existential types.
2020-09-24 00:02:25 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:02:32 +0200	<EvanR>	but if you add another method to recover hidden info from an extistentially typed value, how could it be lost
2020-09-24 00:02:37 +0200	<ixlun>	monochrom: Yep, I don
2020-09-24 00:02:56 +0200	<ixlun>	don't have any haskell packages on this system
2020-09-24 00:02:59 +0200	<EvanR>	i think we need stephen hawking for this one
2020-09-24 00:03:13 +0200	<ixlun>	so I've built GHC and I'm trying to build cabal to get up and running
2020-09-24 00:03:40 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2020-09-24 00:04:19 +0200	Raito_Bezarius	(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 00:04:22 +0200	<phadej>	https://gist.github.com/phadej/828a8e8daf3ec4d90f694f5bafa79356 <- existentials as sigma types
2020-09-24 00:04:30 +0200	<phadej>	and in agda you can tell them appart easilty
2020-09-24 00:04:38 +0200	<phadej>	so MkE True /= MkE False
2020-09-24 00:04:40 +0200	<dolio>	Haskell isn't Agda.
2020-09-24 00:04:48 +0200	<monochrom>	I don't know whether this is an incompatibility betweeh GHC 9.1.0-RC and cabal-install-3.2, or it is a deeper problem.
2020-09-24 00:04:52 +0200	<phadej>	dolio: soon it will be
2020-09-24 00:05:01 +0200	<EvanR>	in Haskell you could include a way of recovering hidden info as part of your API
2020-09-24 00:05:09 +0200	<int-e>	ixlun: "hecking installed packages for ghc-9.1.0.20200923"... probably not a good idea to use an unrelease ghc, but if you do you probably need a development version of Cabal/cabal-install as well.
2020-09-24 00:05:12 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 00:05:16 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-09-24 00:05:24 +0200	chaosmasttter	(~chaosmast@p200300c4a714f1015045819720a2acdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 00:05:44 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 00:05:48 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
2020-09-24 00:05:54 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 00:06:16 +0200	<parsnip>	would you recommend http-client or req library?
2020-09-24 00:06:19 +0200	<phadej>	dolio: have you better argumented explanation how Haskell's existential types are different from that Agda encoding. sans that just hasn't internal power to reason about them
2020-09-24 00:06:21 +0200	<monochrom>	I am also skeptical about the inference "no haskell package, therefore must build from source", but I guess I don't know your system.
2020-09-24 00:06:25 +0200	<int-e>	ixlun: if you built ghc from source (as you said) you can look under libraries/Cabal for sources of those
2020-09-24 00:06:32 +0200	hyperisco_	(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:06:52 +0200	ubert	(~Thunderbi@91.141.1.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:07:06 +0200	lisq	(~quassel@lis.moe) (Quit: lisq)
2020-09-24 00:07:12 +0200	<ixlun>	Yeah, that's what confuses me, GHC's version of cabal was fine
2020-09-24 00:07:17 +0200	lisq	(~quassel@lis.moe)
2020-09-24 00:07:23 +0200	<ixlun>	As you say, I probably need a dev version of cabal-install.
2020-09-24 00:07:37 +0200	<monochrom>	Must you use 9.1?
2020-09-24 00:08:22 +0200	falafel	(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:08:22 +0200	<int-e>	ixlun: But it's saner to just use ghc-8.10.2 for now.
2020-09-24 00:08:33 +0200	<EvanR>	extensional equality is apparently relative to a world of things you're allowed to try and check for a difference
2020-09-24 00:08:48 +0200	ahmr88	(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 00:09:03 +0200	<monochrom>	Eqaulity itself already is.
2020-09-24 00:10:03 +0200	<EvanR>	extensional equality being a subequality of "equality itself" ... xD
2020-09-24 00:10:14 +0200	<monochrom>	Leibniz law "if x equals y then for all f, f x equals f y". The devil of the detail is what kind of f's you are allowed.
2020-09-24 00:10:31 +0200	<EvanR>	ok, leibniz equality
2020-09-24 00:11:07 +0200	<glguy>	reasoning starts to get hard when you admit things because they are true in other languages, or when you pull aside the runtime-abstractions the language attempts to provide and look into the RTS
2020-09-24 00:11:14 +0200	<monochrom>	"I have not observed any unobservable inequality." http://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/tautologies.html #9 :)
2020-09-24 00:11:45 +0200	<EvanR>	nothing unreal exists
2020-09-24 00:12:15 +0200	<ixlun>	int-e: I'd prefer that, but I can't get an aarch64 version of ghc-8.10.2 built
2020-09-24 00:12:25 +0200	<ixlun>	there must have been a fix post then for aarch64
2020-09-24 00:12:36 +0200	<monochrom>	In a nutshell, Leibniz equality is a way to say that inequality has to be observable inequality, you must have an f that tells the difference.
2020-09-24 00:12:55 +0200	<monochrom>	Think of f as an accessor.
2020-09-24 00:13:04 +0200	<EvanR>	doesn't that make it a negatively defined notion
2020-09-24 00:13:13 +0200	<phadej>	glguy: with dataToTag# I can differ `Exists True` and `Exists False` quite easily
2020-09-24 00:13:25 +0200	<EvanR>	equality = no method here to see any difference
2020-09-24 00:13:26 +0200	<phadej>	and I wouldn't even feel dirty
2020-09-24 00:13:53 +0200	<glguy>	phadej: then you're just not reasoning at the level of the language, you're doing something else
2020-09-24 00:15:26 +0200	cosimone	(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it)
2020-09-24 00:15:41 +0200	cosimone_	(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 00:15:47 +0200	<EvanR>	nvm
2020-09-24 00:15:50 +0200	<phadej>	yes, I can agree that we (I and dolio) disagree on the "what means equal". I look at those from outside, and they are different to me. It's true that without using any tricks, data Exists where Exists :: a -> Exists is essentially a ()
2020-09-24 00:16:08 +0200	<phadej>	... from inside Haskell
2020-09-24 00:16:14 +0200	ixlun	(~matthew@213.205.241.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 00:16:58 +0200	<EvanR>	no way to tell a difference from inside haskell, because the example included no way to. Though it could have
2020-09-24 00:17:01 +0200	oish	(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-24 00:17:20 +0200	<glguy>	EvanR: No point in finding differences in the things we aren't looking at
2020-09-24 00:17:22 +0200	<EvanR>	then you'd have an example of an existential that lost less info
2020-09-24 00:18:59 +0200	Faker	(bd0fcbd1@189.15.203.209)
2020-09-24 00:19:34 +0200	<EvanR>	anyway, if you can't tell anyway, does that really mean injectivity is violated?
2020-09-24 00:20:18 +0200	Inoperable	(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (Excess Flood)
2020-09-24 00:20:40 +0200	<EvanR>	like is there an observable violation
2020-09-24 00:20:50 +0200	Raito_Bezarius	(~Raito_Bez@unaffiliated/raito-bezarius/x-8764578)
2020-09-24 00:21:43 +0200	<monochrom>	This is why people have disagreements over what referential transparency means. Because they have disagreements over equality in the first place.
2020-09-24 00:21:47 +0200	<dolio>	EvanR: Injectivity says `Exists False = Exists True -> False = True`.
2020-09-24 00:22:13 +0200	__monty__	(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 00:23:10 +0200	cosimone	(~cosimone@93-47-228-249.ip115.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Quit.)
2020-09-24 00:23:16 +0200	<phadej>	I don't see how `Exists False = Exists True`, is there non handwavy reference on this difference to "more powerful type-systems"
2020-09-24 00:23:19 +0200	<monochrom>	However, I am more reminded of unbelievable compression schemes such as "send it to /dev/null" if you don't expect to recover the information you sent.
2020-09-24 00:24:07 +0200	<monochrom>	Also the Chinese idiom "a safe, the key of which is lost".
2020-09-24 00:24:16 +0200	dhil	(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:24:52 +0200	<monochrom>	That aptly describes the unrecoverable existential type.
2020-09-24 00:25:02 +0200	<dolio>	I think Bob Harper has written about ML modules, abstract types, existential types, and how dependent sigma types are inadequate to correctly model abstract types.
2020-09-24 00:25:09 +0200	<monochrom>	You save some information in it. Then you can't retrieve it.
2020-09-24 00:25:10 +0200	<EvanR>	yeah it's mathemtically not injective but how would it manifest as a bug
2020-09-24 00:25:29 +0200	<dolio>	It is not "more powerful" to be unable to correctly abstract.
2020-09-24 00:25:39 +0200	sudden	(~lax@unaffiliated/laxask) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:26:23 +0200	<phadej>	if we promote, they are not the same: https://gist.github.com/phadej/539de5929c6acad3b8e2fa60fbf68f14
2020-09-24 00:26:25 +0200	<dolio>	Also your position on existential types makes all the equational reasoning people do based on parametricity invalid for Haskell.
2020-09-24 00:26:54 +0200	<phadej>	how so?
2020-09-24 00:27:26 +0200	<dolio>	Or, for whatever you want to call not even thinking about the abstractions Haskell is supposed to have, just the underlying implementation of them on particular computers.
2020-09-24 00:27:47 +0200	<monochrom>	Hrm, you can promote a GADT?! TIL
2020-09-24 00:28:12 +0200	<phadej>	monochrom: somewhere in GHC-8 series we got that
2020-09-24 00:28:17 +0200	Amras	(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:28:21 +0200	<monochrom>	Ah.
2020-09-24 00:28:47 +0200	Ariakenom_	(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 00:29:03 +0200	Inoperable	(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science)
2020-09-24 00:29:10 +0200	Amras	(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
2020-09-24 00:29:11 +0200	<phadej>	comparing `MkExists True` and `MkExists False` is not the same as trying to say something about to arbitrary `x :: Exists` and `y :: Exists`
2020-09-24 00:29:12 +0200	Ariakenom_	(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-09-24 00:30:02 +0200	lucasb	(uid333435@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bnapwgimpcnsbnzd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-24 00:30:07 +0200	<EvanR>	whatever you concluded about arbitrary Exists ought to apply to these examples or
2020-09-24 00:30:17 +0200	<EvanR>	somethings up
2020-09-24 00:32:28 +0200	<monochrom>	I guess parametricity doesn't apply to the type-kind level?
2020-09-24 00:32:29 +0200	<EvanR>	also since i was asking about constructors it's not necessary to consider arbitrary Exists
2020-09-24 00:33:16 +0200	<EvanR>	really? what about polykinds
2020-09-24 00:33:26 +0200	ahmr88	(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-24 00:33:27 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 00:33:55 +0200	<phadej>	forall a. a -> a still has only one non-bottom inhabitant
2020-09-24 00:33:59 +0200	<phadej>	nothing what I said violate that
2020-09-24 00:34:59 +0200	dhouthoo	(~dhouthoo@ptr-eiv6509pb4ifhdr9lsd.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-24 00:35:22 +0200	<phadej>	there are work even on internal parametricity in dependent type theories
2020-09-24 00:35:39 +0200	<EvanR>	more polymorphic "counting" shenanigans :'(
2020-09-24 00:35:56 +0200	jespada	(~jespada@90.254.241.6) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:35:59 +0200	ruffianeo	(~ruffianeo@p200300e5271f091a0b5616d2c2715e0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 00:36:46 +0200	LestatCapulet	(~Android@192.95.191.129)
2020-09-24 00:37:00 +0200	<LestatCapulet>	Wasabi!
2020-09-24 00:37:12 +0200	ChanServ	+o monochrom
2020-09-24 00:37:17 +0200	<EvanR>	for any given a there are any number of different functions implementing id. But they are extensionally equal. How do you also "consolidate" all the versions across all types too
2020-09-24 00:37:38 +0200	<EvanR>	in what sense are they all the same
2020-09-24 00:37:47 +0200	Amras	(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:38:25 +0200	ericsagnes	(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:81f:aebf:9d15:7980) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:38:34 +0200	<dolio>	They're not all the same. I can use some unsound GHC primop to notice they aren't. Q.E.D.
2020-09-24 00:38:46 +0200	<EvanR>	not an answer
2020-09-24 00:39:00 +0200	<dolio>	It's exactly the answer I was met with above.
2020-09-24 00:39:10 +0200	jespada	(~jespada@90.254.241.6)
2020-09-24 00:39:47 +0200	<phadej>	I argue that you cannot differentiate values of type `forall a. a -> a`
2020-09-24 00:39:49 +0200	EvanR	puts on "I'm with dolio" shirt for clarification
2020-09-24 00:40:05 +0200	<phadej>	you cannot "fix a" and then try to tell them apart
2020-09-24 00:40:08 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:40:26 +0200	darjeeling_	(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:40:47 +0200	<EvanR>	well, you can't differentiate them. I'm asking how you identify them. Or is that the point?
2020-09-24 00:41:13 +0200	Tuplanolla	(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
2020-09-24 00:41:22 +0200	<phadej>	parametricity tells that they are all equal.
2020-09-24 00:41:31 +0200	fresheyeball	(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 00:41:33 +0200	<EvanR>	equal in what sense
2020-09-24 00:41:41 +0200	<phadej>	extensional
2020-09-24 00:42:12 +0200	<phadej>	it doesn't mean that internally you can get that result, and do anything with it
2020-09-24 00:42:18 +0200	darjeeling_	(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72)
2020-09-24 00:43:07 +0200	thc202	(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:43:25 +0200	<EvanR>	ok I think I got it
2020-09-24 00:44:19 +0200	<phadej>	none of these equalities are decidable, "given values of type X you can tell whether they are equal or not"
2020-09-24 00:44:27 +0200	<phadej>	but in some corner case you may be able
2020-09-24 00:45:07 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:45:59 +0200	<phadej>	e.g. forall a. a -> a -> a, has two values, you can tell if two values are different, but you cannot really tell (without parametricity) that they are the same
2020-09-24 00:46:27 +0200	<EvanR>	i was just trying to think of that example. How do you know if they're different?
2020-09-24 00:46:33 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 00:46:45 +0200	<EvanR>	but looking an example for a particular a ?
2020-09-24 00:46:46 +0200	<phadej>	f @Bool True False /= f @Bool True False
2020-09-24 00:46:48 +0200	<phadej>	yes
2020-09-24 00:46:49 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 00:46:58 +0200	<phadej>	err, False True on the other side
2020-09-24 00:47:22 +0200	<phadej>	one example is enough to show they are different
2020-09-24 00:47:52 +0200	<phadej>	if you happen to find one
2020-09-24 00:48:38 +0200	<phadej>	parametricity gives you a hint which examples to try though
2020-09-24 00:49:01 +0200	<phadej>	f @Bool True False /= g @Bool True False -- correct one
2020-09-24 00:49:07 +0200	<EvanR>	an example is enough to establish a new island in the a -> a -> a universe, i guess, but then you need some sort of universal proof to show the next contestant is extentially equal to one of the two
2020-09-24 00:49:20 +0200	<phadej>	yes, that you cannot do
2020-09-24 00:49:29 +0200	<phadej>	without using parametricity
2020-09-24 00:49:58 +0200	<phadej>	because we cannot try all possible Types
2020-09-24 00:49:59 +0200	<LestatCapulet>	Magic Disney Tatertott Power 4TehWin!
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2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	chpatrick	(sid239395@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-utcyhgxekvhxejbi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	teehemkay	(sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjcsbjoqlladnfxk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	totbwf	(sid402332@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjmhiwccxkxkteva) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	dgpratt	(sid193493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uucxuoqybsgyiift) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	mankyKitty	(sid31287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jihesrcsryboipnr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	Cir0X	(sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqxcnazabqtiadgx) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:27 +0200	lally	(sid388228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vhwczorcyqzuicms) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:37 +0200	metadave	(sid28102@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mrjoylodjlrypfbb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:41 +0200	<LestatCapulet>	Lets play sum Tetris AAmodafackerz!
2020-09-24 00:50:45 +0200	ericsagnes	(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:299e:ec7e:26e2:62a4)
2020-09-24 00:50:47 +0200	SrPx	(sid108780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pikcoqubfkfixlwr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:47 +0200	darthThorik	(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwzuxihrfeehhzht) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:47 +0200	chessai	(sid225296@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfizlxvivbcantln) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:49 +0200	adius	(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgtgafliufsovuzu) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:53 +0200	monochrom	+b !@192.95.191.129
2020-09-24 00:50:54 +0200	LestatCapulet	monochromLestatCapulet
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	Shun131	(sid377723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bciclhtcxocmszvr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	mpickering	(sid78412@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-exagzdwxeoovxmvn) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	stylewarning	(stylewarni@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aacvmntgnkbbrpre) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	enemeth79	(sid309041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-juwyanjnqsblnvjw) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	rdivyanshu	(sid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvhtjrmbhbobdxph) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	sethetter__	(sid17895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofqffrfpymacvots) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	Boarders	(sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqjgutzzrbwehmim) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	alunduil	(alunduil@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rqaajfjptzcjmhjk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	ProofTechnique	(sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oabhwrmeevisxbwt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	heyj	(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzalwuunujdpcyxl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	natim87	(sid286962@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyoculsnckwhiufe) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:55 +0200	eruditass	(uid248673@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwpawjqwxbqtvpqz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:50:57 +0200	iphy	(sid67735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ljktqldirtfuvhxf) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:05 +0200	Adeon	(sid418992@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alybvdyanbyduxzk) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:07 +0200	lightandlight	(sid135476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lugrjgzcjggtbiby) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:07 +0200	rizary	(sid220347@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgjmzrjsselnpznk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:16 +0200	ocharles	(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles)
2020-09-24 00:51:16 +0200	<EvanR>	we cannot do what?
2020-09-24 00:51:25 +0200	sclv	(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	wpcarro	(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qorfieghthxovgmb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	Kamuela	(sid111576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xlqrhagcwhphbieg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	angerman	(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thzdnynaezhogcyk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	betawaffle	(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vowkstqoqmkgbeel) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	pent	(sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkbroqrhnklldkyz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	alexknvl	(sid259568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qorpotgmpomxedyr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	jetpack_joe	(sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctheevdrmbwanlfp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	d0liver	(sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rxubzzchgfajmkwp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	caasih	(sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lyrfozrutzyciokb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	carter	(sid14827@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lolmerenbdywhelv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	cstrahan	(sid36118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijwwaukekmgfdtbb) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	grfn	(sid449115@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmkxiwvftsjzmtar) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	jlpeters	(sid25606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qrrymvptdtkirxre) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	alanz_	(sid110616@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uweulygqbqdjzrce) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	edmundnoble	(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svsxuztwqrbczrgg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	FMJz____	(sid279245@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndzfispoqyyjbfwv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	koankeeper	(sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-surgzmxynbvksujv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	liquorice	(sid267884@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xylydadfiqqahmvz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	drupol	(sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndganimdeoyyzpze) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	newhoggy	(sid198874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-frzapkbirclsivhh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	cemerick	(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjoooidjnsclfhmo) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	buggymcbugfix	(sid432603@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lklzoesoqimndwor) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	NemesisD	(sid24071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jooxmsmhuiatqwup) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:32 +0200	albethere	(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vytwtngzpwqzmwzu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	kip	(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dstccjprfxvtgpru) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	bitonic	(sid61915@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydkmzmcmestwiapm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	PotatoGim	(sid99505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-roqgdbepvpkqcqvg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	glowcoil	(sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvlppjsxyefvgjgm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	hazard-pointer	(sid331723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aszxwmqoaxlphlnc) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	dani-	(sid341953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfopvbbambqkrddm) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	parsnip	(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruqytqnmciyoyqlr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:43 +0200	systemfault	(sid267009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-coqzndmmhghxnvqs) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:47 +0200	idnar	(sid12240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tfsrbtkqrzazovfm) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:47 +0200	lexi-lambda	(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kqlffaskqxngpytz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:47 +0200	kyagrd__	(sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bpqznclhpkuhhkvr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:47 +0200	mcfilib	(sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcvztaukmltliuld) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:48 +0200	wildsebastian	(sid324688@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxluugkcnddqzgnu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:48 +0200	benl23	(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qybbmdkhuhxfnbnc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:48 +0200	adamse	(sid72084@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cectujjnvjvetnmu) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:48 +0200	kristjansson	(sid126207@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cwnvwggjpyoyfbug) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:51:48 +0200	edwardk	(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:07 +0200	howdoi	(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avwcxcbfgjgwkevh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:09 +0200	enemeth79	(sid309041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztkkujlriirbyczm)
2020-09-24 00:52:19 +0200	<EvanR>	(seems to be a netsplit) phadej: we cannot do what exactly?
2020-09-24 00:52:20 +0200	martin_____	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cggakmbaikigvgzv)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	jackdk	(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtjmdlcvnejwwxlz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	Nascha	(sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mayrideklcmxzbwe) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	elvishjerricco	(sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	cbarrett	(sid192934@adium/cbarrett) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	billstclair	(sid77830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkbezggvjpohupat) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	ebutleriv	(sid217783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aihaojuzvhpceszg) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	nick_h	(sid319833@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrnotesvgbbkgiby) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	eacameron	(sid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggdxyrmbjeijhikz) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	scav	(sid309693@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymzomuxhhppjcvqx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	joshmeredith	(sid387798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhammqzjqpqcqprj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	martin____	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ucvmjjneeopyzqlh) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	martin___	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iekzwxitriyjmecf) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	spew	(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jkykaxkaupyaxlvb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	rodlogic__	(sid214676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzcbsqnofmghakzy) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	parseval	(sid239098@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-maeovdrfxjodxdsd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	sgraf	(sid326656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgjjxemhusyfacvt) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	affinespaces	(sid327561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-surtytzgkagqbptw) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	gluegadget	(sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmiumiesupahnofb) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:21 +0200	martin_____	martin____
2020-09-24 00:52:25 +0200	graingert	(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrquxxvowvtgeikn) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:35 +0200	typetetris	(sid275937@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpqzcabctkypxzuf)
2020-09-24 00:52:37 +0200	kristjansson	(sid126207@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnpvtzvuodufjtmg)
2020-09-24 00:52:37 +0200	cemerick	(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nbhjusnctobgzdtj)
2020-09-24 00:52:38 +0200	benwr__	(sid372383@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ympydwgppzchpmbc)
2020-09-24 00:52:39 +0200	pent	(sid313808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztipyrtlkdbfutmv)
2020-09-24 00:52:40 +0200	zabracks	(sid322453@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-biellhbdwvaqjeyr)
2020-09-24 00:52:40 +0200	d0liver	(sid363046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mobhkddospuvumcg)
2020-09-24 00:52:40 +0200	pepeiborra_	(sid443799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mukumnrtxgwgxvcg)
2020-09-24 00:52:40 +0200	lally	(sid388228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttpmvetxyxqhrgnc)
2020-09-24 00:52:40 +0200	totbwf	(sid402332@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eulltanhbubrhuoe)
2020-09-24 00:52:42 +0200	edwardk	(sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk)
2020-09-24 00:52:42 +0200	kupi	(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-papgdteawksudphd) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:42 +0200	jetpack_joe	(sid146137@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zepsxlqcwpmeoiye)
2020-09-24 00:52:42 +0200	parseval	(sid239098@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwazpjswabidvbms)
2020-09-24 00:52:43 +0200	parsnip	(sid147265@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjnuxmoamisxbwgm)
2020-09-24 00:52:43 +0200	spew	(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdyexxcnetkilzyc)
2020-09-24 00:52:43 +0200	drupol	(sid117588@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gvykpmtfnmgofllh)
2020-09-24 00:52:43 +0200	lightandlight	(sid135476@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nimetgbujjzfnoxs)
2020-09-24 00:52:44 +0200	gluegadget	(sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdtzjryntvxgdzkx)
2020-09-24 00:52:44 +0200	mpickering	(sid78412@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tenczaeanycawpas)
2020-09-24 00:52:45 +0200	davetapley	(sid666@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-issjvdpiznczxsoo)
2020-09-24 00:52:46 +0200	adius	(sid321344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdslkdkulmqfrsas)
2020-09-24 00:52:46 +0200	darthThorik	(sid39589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eimsyucdiebkhuma)
2020-09-24 00:52:47 +0200	metadave	(sid28102@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpnnitlhecwrrsgq)
2020-09-24 00:52:47 +0200	Shun131	(sid377723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzwejgdnirknkdyy)
2020-09-24 00:52:50 +0200	martin___	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erkznfebkxmjtljg)
2020-09-24 00:52:51 +0200	bitonic	(sid61915@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-indhjgkukoetiqtf)
2020-09-24 00:52:52 +0200	Adeon	(sid418992@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cvwbjodfepluylyi)
2020-09-24 00:52:54 +0200	<glguy>	"netsplit" / irccloud instability
2020-09-24 00:52:54 +0200	betawaffle	(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjxfsafadmlzfybj)
2020-09-24 00:52:55 +0200	liszt	(sid336875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uteuxgmqmrjwpffv)
2020-09-24 00:52:55 +0200	buggymcbugfix	(sid432603@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-segxurmailgbipxk)
2020-09-24 00:52:55 +0200	edmundnoble	(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xckfdnnctkwioehd)
2020-09-24 00:52:58 +0200	glowcoil	(sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxenmydbtxdrjhcw)
2020-09-24 00:52:59 +0200	irc_user	(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zcagtoolpvznahhu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:59 +0200	pepeiborra	(sid443799@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bikhixmhqqkozscp) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:52:59 +0200	pepeiborra_	pepeiborra
2020-09-24 00:53:06 +0200	angerman	(sid209936@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjowxznciagzmqyd)
2020-09-24 00:53:07 +0200	JSharp	(sid4580@wikia/JSharp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:53:14 +0200	kupi	(uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmjxijjconjdwmfh)
2020-09-24 00:53:15 +0200	<Clint>	reboot the internet
2020-09-24 00:53:21 +0200	gregberns_	(sid315709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pxdaqtbgiynqrhqa)
2020-09-24 00:53:25 +0200	entel	(uid256215@botters/entel) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:53:31 +0200	hazard-pointer	(sid331723@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyiwpjjxikwikqxq)
2020-09-24 00:53:33 +0200	thi	(sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wriovfhjtmcdbcjt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:53:34 +0200	agander_m	(sid407952@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwoqulslpyqlylbi)
2020-09-24 00:53:43 +0200	srhb	(sid400352@NixOS/user/srhb) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:53:52 +0200	alehander92	(sid331460@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idkdgfbsseuoqnwz)
2020-09-24 00:53:53 +0200	heyj	(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdaknvkrpgxotygi)
2020-09-24 00:53:55 +0200	koankeeper	(sid216950@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuumlbepnnvmulch)
2020-09-24 00:53:55 +0200	<EvanR>	I thought it was irccloud.com then i saw edwardk ping timeout too
2020-09-24 00:53:56 +0200	eacameron	(sid256985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqavlegecgsakqev)
2020-09-24 00:53:57 +0200	scav	(sid309693@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sroyhqfgixitzetl)
2020-09-24 00:53:58 +0200	integral	(sid296274@p3m/member/integral)
2020-09-24 00:54:00 +0200	Cir0X	(sid221743@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ghtetmherfetfvlm)
2020-09-24 00:54:00 +0200	cvlad-	(sid203065@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fewqvluttyvfpqrl)
2020-09-24 00:54:00 +0200	wpcarro	(sid397589@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmnsiiwhaheypbna)
2020-09-24 00:54:05 +0200	wildsebastian	(sid324688@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-noxobrzcxmeunedz)
2020-09-24 00:54:08 +0200	alanz_	(sid110616@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oljjdoyrlaarrctj)
2020-09-24 00:54:14 +0200	idnar	(sid12240@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wekokikpeshbhqyj)
2020-09-24 00:54:19 +0200	billstclair	(sid77830@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfktjwoadztbgrwu)
2020-09-24 00:54:20 +0200	alexknvl	(sid259568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxewnkgtcktglgdk)
2020-09-24 00:54:21 +0200	Nascha	(sid212230@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-veqfssgsdgrwspqx)
2020-09-24 00:54:22 +0200	teehemkay	(sid14792@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqijularyrnvcadd)
2020-09-24 00:54:24 +0200	rdivyanshu	(sid322626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlikewfaiqjbobsd)
2020-09-24 00:54:25 +0200	benl23	(sid284234@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymhnarrzfbwgukrc)
2020-09-24 00:54:26 +0200	bradparker	(sid262931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mofanjllsexcdrco)
2020-09-24 00:54:27 +0200	cbarrett	(sid192934@adium/cbarrett)
2020-09-24 00:54:27 +0200	natim87	(sid286962@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owkkkawkmfdtpxis)
2020-09-24 00:54:29 +0200	stylewarning	(stylewarni@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvpnoawijpdmmxja)
2020-09-24 00:54:30 +0200	iphy	(sid67735@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kldcelvhnttznwir)
2020-09-24 00:54:31 +0200	<glguy>	EvanR: what did you conclude from seeing that?
2020-09-24 00:54:32 +0200	liquorice	(sid267884@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ubxyjvrpmxhwnqkq)
2020-09-24 00:54:33 +0200	kip	(sid71464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmonmsxkcjhjcgqe)
2020-09-24 00:54:34 +0200	affinespaces	(sid327561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kvltnsabbhcplluv)
2020-09-24 00:54:34 +0200	mcfilib	(sid302703@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ayrowhifopnqemcf)
2020-09-24 00:54:35 +0200	srhb	(sid400352@NixOS/user/srhb)
2020-09-24 00:54:35 +0200	thi	(sid97277@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skwjfzenuehplhxv)
2020-09-24 00:54:36 +0200	sethetter__	(sid17895@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gjrsztjbkfnqxzcl)
2020-09-24 00:54:38 +0200	bjs	(sid190364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sffmijuqwritxret)
2020-09-24 00:54:38 +0200	carter	(sid14827@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iroznbxhtklfnfzx)
2020-09-24 00:54:38 +0200	albethere	(sid457088@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egacnjjdaxtejyln)
2020-09-24 00:54:41 +0200	simony	(sid226116@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vcsdewznrdwwgnis)
2020-09-24 00:54:43 +0200	Kamuela	(sid111576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffwzngkqaohtkylu)
2020-09-24 00:54:44 +0200	howdoi	(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svpcvlpkamjtfitp)
2020-09-24 00:54:45 +0200	joshmeredith	(sid387798@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tocpehdjhiusuwgk)
2020-09-24 00:54:45 +0200	SrPx	(sid108780@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjejjdsspacspndl)
2020-09-24 00:54:48 +0200	jlpeters	(sid25606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-twwkkqhyyggfdivq)
2020-09-24 00:54:50 +0200	sclv	(sid39734@haskell/developer/sclv)
2020-09-24 00:54:53 +0200	feepo	(sid28508@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yvdfjmicbugqxtqj)
2020-09-24 00:54:58 +0200	irc_user	(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awewgjdwbaknrfwe)
2020-09-24 00:54:58 +0200	FMJz____	(sid279245@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxlxmdepyepdjiiz)
2020-09-24 00:54:59 +0200	chessai	(sid225296@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zzehzebrnlswozjp)
2020-09-24 00:55:01 +0200	ullbeking	(sid5364@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nuizesoknxmuomew)
2020-09-24 00:55:02 +0200	<monochrom>	Perhaps edwardk is on irccloud.com too.
2020-09-24 00:55:03 +0200	chpatrick	(sid239395@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgwhhvpaceqfpsfd)
2020-09-24 00:55:03 +0200	<EvanR>	there's a conspiracy from irccloud to take down edk's client
2020-09-24 00:55:04 +0200	ebutleriv	(sid217783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xojalosetjeggitu)
2020-09-24 00:55:04 +0200	ProofTechnique	(sid79547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tponbxdqtfpxmwel)
2020-09-24 00:55:05 +0200	kyagrd__	(sid102627@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cczxifxwkgykmgul)
2020-09-24 00:55:05 +0200	mankyKitty	(sid31287@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stbsqcajexfluxuf)
2020-09-24 00:55:06 +0200	cstrahan	(sid36118@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpyatyyfmsjoedfl)
2020-09-24 00:55:08 +0200	dgpratt	(sid193493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfcngfvjfuasdztv)
2020-09-24 00:55:09 +0200	<EvanR>	or that
2020-09-24 00:55:11 +0200	caasih	(sid13241@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-inrpoiaisxjinedq)
2020-09-24 00:55:12 +0200	ghuntley	(sid16877@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luqtfrbjedshlyyp)
2020-09-24 00:55:17 +0200	PatrickRobotham_	(sid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnvdpghrecuvxqhe)
2020-09-24 00:55:17 +0200	newhoggy	(sid198874@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjtefuttsgcyxcav)
2020-09-24 00:55:18 +0200	elvishjerricco	(sid237756@NixOS/user/ElvishJerricco)
2020-09-24 00:55:18 +0200	grfn	(sid449115@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rvpditypzabzksng)
2020-09-24 00:55:18 +0200	xyggos	(uid216035@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmxaxxurlecshsab) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:55:19 +0200	amatecha__	(sid10006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbrqcxiojnxeeyta)
2020-09-24 00:55:20 +0200	eruditass	(uid248673@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eolintwxiwbmuxmq)
2020-09-24 00:55:22 +0200	entel	(uid256215@botters/entel)
2020-09-24 00:55:23 +0200	<monochrom>	I support conspiracy theories.
2020-09-24 00:55:25 +0200	alunduil	(alunduil@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vymgafgkgglqgroh)
2020-09-24 00:55:29 +0200	<EvanR>	but he's the only one with a mask? crazy
2020-09-24 00:55:32 +0200	adamse	(sid72084@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibjuwillctxzxezq)
2020-09-24 00:55:36 +0200	sgraf	(sid326656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqdvppnreegksoze)
2020-09-24 00:55:52 +0200	drbrule	(sid395654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogdudpwfmbcjqaew)
2020-09-24 00:55:52 +0200	rizary	(sid220347@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fasoxblpleyerysc)
2020-09-24 00:55:53 +0200	rodlogic__	(sid214676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uruhlkshnartaizk)
2020-09-24 00:55:59 +0200	jackdk	(sid373013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gslbfnrpxcdhxppp)
2020-09-24 00:56:00 +0200	<glguy>	gateway cloaks (like irccloud users have) override unaffiliated cloaks
2020-09-24 00:56:01 +0200	dani-	(sid341953@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmefyomzdfqtzrok)
2020-09-24 00:56:01 +0200	lexi-lambda	(sid92601@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogjhnupgzawfysnk)
2020-09-24 00:56:03 +0200	systemfault	(sid267009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-domoukaafsguzygi)
2020-09-24 00:56:13 +0200	graingert	(sid128301@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oaiulwhfwjkhanpm)
2020-09-24 00:56:18 +0200	PoliticsII____	(sid193551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kufaifprsfovqzzx)
2020-09-24 00:56:19 +0200	xyggos	(uid216035@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hospzqdbwodsdydc)
2020-09-24 00:56:37 +0200	JSharp	(sid4580@wikia/JSharp)
2020-09-24 00:56:43 +0200	<dolio>	If you want to understand part of why sigma and exists don't line up, you can actually read some of the work on parametricity in dependent type theories. Like Cavallo and Harper on parametricity in cubical type theory. There they point out that 'bridges' (relations, on which parametricity is based) and 'paths' (on which 'equality' is based) disagree for the universe. And the path type for a Σ type corresponds to paths for its components. So a path f
2020-09-24 00:56:44 +0200	<dolio>	or a (Σ U) type is going to be talking about paths between types, rather than relations between types. However, the point of a parametric existential type is for values to be equal based on a relational criterion.
2020-09-24 00:56:45 +0200	moobar	(sid171730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uosvpoonemwbnosq)
2020-09-24 00:57:09 +0200	Boarders	(sid425905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bknwefewrylbhwhw)
2020-09-24 00:57:29 +0200	PotatoGim	(sid99505@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zoyefvrqhzvagror)
2020-09-24 00:57:41 +0200	nick_h	(sid319833@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wfhraakyeevpkesp)
2020-09-24 00:58:05 +0200	NemesisD	(sid24071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbgzpmcbhsxfreot)
2020-09-24 00:58:19 +0200	heyj	(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kdaknvkrpgxotygi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:58:32 +0200	edmundnoble	(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xckfdnnctkwioehd) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:58:32 +0200	spew	(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdyexxcnetkilzyc) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:58:32 +0200	cemerick	(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nbhjusnctobgzdtj) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:58:32 +0200	ocharles	(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:58:42 +0200	betawaffle	(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjxfsafadmlzfybj) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 00:59:13 +0200	LestatC95	(~Android@2605:8d80:662:fdea:ed2:3fc2:27b3:bdc3)
2020-09-24 00:59:36 +0200	<jamestmartin>	is it possible to export a function which uses an instance of a typeclass without exporting the instance itself?
2020-09-24 01:00:30 +0200	<jamestmartin>	while also exporting the typeclass, just not the instance
2020-09-24 01:00:41 +0200	spew	(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlyhvwsiznqfylsw)
2020-09-24 01:00:42 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 01:00:58 +0200	ocharles	(sid30093@musicbrainz/user/ocharles)
2020-09-24 01:01:04 +0200	cemerick	(sid54985@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jgattjyyxojabrge)
2020-09-24 01:01:51 +0200	<EvanR>	well that helps, parametricity is based on relations
2020-09-24 01:02:11 +0200	<EvanR>	is there a readable paper on that
2020-09-24 01:02:24 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 01:02:36 +0200	<glguy>	jamestmartin: No, you can't avoid exporting an instance
2020-09-24 01:02:48 +0200	<jamestmartin>	alright then
2020-09-24 01:02:55 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 01:02:59 +0200	<dolio>	Wadler's Theorems for Free, maybe. I forget.
2020-09-24 01:03:16 +0200	<jamestmartin>	well, with linear types coming soon, that won't be necessary anyhow
2020-09-24 01:03:21 +0200	<jamestmartin>	I was just curious
2020-09-24 01:04:41 +0200	nbloomf	(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:a8a2:2518:6bde:e621) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 01:05:52 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-24 01:06:05 +0200	<jamestmartin>	man, I'm hyped for linear types though. that's gonna be useful in so many ways.
2020-09-24 01:07:17 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:08:27 +0200	<EvanR>	linear types coming soon?
2020-09-24 01:09:20 +0200	<jamestmartin>	linear types are going to be in ghc 8.12 from what I've heard
2020-09-24 01:09:58 +0200	heyj	(sid171370@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxveayvtjepkleli)
2020-09-24 01:10:07 +0200	<EvanR>	damn that's sexy
2020-09-24 01:10:17 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 01:11:41 +0200	edmundnoble	(sid229620@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aamqtvpjhykeshcn)
2020-09-24 01:12:36 +0200	betawaffle	(sid2730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wauonuwppwmwhziv)
2020-09-24 01:12:50 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-24 01:13:13 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	linear types should be pretty useful, they're the perfect way to shift people from complaining about IO being infections to complain about linearity being infectious
2020-09-24 01:14:08 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-24 01:14:56 +0200	<int-e>	. o O ( Can we make it so that only one person can complain at a time? )
2020-09-24 01:15:22 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:16:04 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	:D
2020-09-24 01:16:28 +0200	hackage	bytestring 0.11.0.0 - Fast, compact, strict and lazy byte strings with a list interface https://hackage.haskell.org/package/bytestring-0.11.0.0 (Bodigrim)
2020-09-24 01:16:45 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-24 01:16:54 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	If a complain is registered we promise it will be looked at exactly once.
2020-09-24 01:17:03 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:17:14 +0200	fresheyeball	(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:18:25 +0200	josh	(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 01:19:00 +0200	josh	(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 01:19:47 +0200	acidjnk_new2	(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237860d9dcd65723cec3bc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:23:14 +0200	josh	(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:24:57 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-24 01:26:39 +0200	justsomeguy	(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
2020-09-24 01:26:44 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-24 01:27:52 +0200	<hpc>	in rust, you promise it will be looked at, at most once :D
2020-09-24 01:27:57 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:28:33 +0200	minwuek	(uid466029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkobzjneikrfqrhj)
2020-09-24 01:28:49 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	the trick is just not to look, or if you look, put it back when you're done
2020-09-24 01:30:00 +0200	wroathe_	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 01:30:37 +0200	acidjnk_new2	(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237863349b0df7f7aa9c44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 01:30:52 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:31:06 +0200	DavidEichmann	(~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:31:07 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 01:31:32 +0200	sfvm	(~sfvm@37.228.215.148)
2020-09-24 01:32:17 +0200	<LestatC95>	Chaos theory reigns Supreme....Lysanders in!
2020-09-24 01:33:27 +0200	gmt	(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-24 01:33:59 +0200	LestatC95	(~Android@2605:8d80:662:fdea:ed2:3fc2:27b3:bdc3) (Quit: -a- IRC for Android 2.1.59)
2020-09-24 01:34:15 +0200	MarcelineVQ	drips drinking water on a paleobotanist's hand in a pervy way during a jostling cross-country car trip
2020-09-24 01:34:38 +0200	wroathe_	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:35:22 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 01:40:09 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:42:38 +0200	sudden	(~lax@unaffiliated/laxask)
2020-09-24 01:42:55 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 01:47:54 +0200	Sheilong	(uid293653@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgqcljxsodhaxjzg)
2020-09-24 01:48:57 +0200	acidjnk_new2	(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237863349b0df7f7aa9c44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:51:15 +0200	<koz_>	I'm getting some DerivingStrategies weirdness: https://gist.github.com/kozross/e8dbf3587ec59738e3e3cd06067cdd28
2020-09-24 01:51:35 +0200	<koz_>	I kinda get why this is happening, but I am unsure how to resolve it.
2020-09-24 01:51:55 +0200	<glguy>	koz_: I got to here: https://gist.github.com/kozross/e8dbf3587ec59738e3e3cd06067cdd28#file-ll1-hs-L15-L18 ; the applicative instance doesn't satisfy the laws
2020-09-24 01:52:23 +0200	<koz_>	Yep, that's a good catch.
2020-09-24 01:52:35 +0200	<koz_>	This is what happens when you try and transpose academic papers rofl.
2020-09-24 01:53:12 +0200	Thra11	(~Thra11@5.1.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 01:54:01 +0200	<koz_>	glguy: Updated, nice catch.
2020-09-24 01:54:07 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
2020-09-24 01:54:32 +0200	xerox_	(~xerox@unaffiliated/xerox) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:55:26 +0200	<koz_>	DerivingVia still explodes with the same error.
2020-09-24 01:55:45 +0200	<koz_>	How would I go about remedying this? In theory, (Alt f, Alt g) => Alt (Product f g) holds.
2020-09-24 01:55:46 +0200	son0p	(~son0p@181.136.122.143) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 01:57:13 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 01:57:34 +0200	<solonarv>	what happens if you replace line 35 with 'deriving newtype (Alt)' ?
2020-09-24 01:57:48 +0200	<koz_>	solonarv: Same error. That was the first thing I tried.
2020-09-24 01:58:51 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 02:00:01 +0200	rah1	(~rah@184.75.221.203) ()
2020-09-24 02:00:34 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:d81b:49ea:d8f1:8f81)
2020-09-24 02:01:53 +0200	nineonin_	(~nineonine@216.81.48.202) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 02:03:25 +0200	Ariakenom__	(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-180-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se)
2020-09-24 02:05:19 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@121.209.139.222) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 02:05:37 +0200	<int-e>	koz_: coercing Applicative (Product (Empty e t) (First e t)) => to Applicative (EmFirst e t) => can't really work, can it? The former instance can exist without the latter existing... and even if you add an Applicative instance for EmFirst using newtype deriving, the type checker can't really know how it's derived... so it can't really be expected to reuse the representation.
2020-09-24 02:06:02 +0200	<koz_>	int-e: Yeah, that's a good point.
2020-09-24 02:06:11 +0200	<int-e>	(in light of this, `some` and `many` should really have their own typeclass instead)
2020-09-24 02:06:31 +0200	<koz_>	I believe there's a note about refactoring them out once some unspecified issues with MonadPlus are resolved.
2020-09-24 02:06:42 +0200	<koz_>	It's a bit of a bummer, but I guess it's not that hard to spell by hand.
2020-09-24 02:07:25 +0200	Ariakenom_	(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-229-34.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 02:09:04 +0200	<int-e>	koz_: oh wow, Data.Functor.Alt is littered with unsafeCoerce... for the same reason.
2020-09-24 02:09:10 +0200	<koz_>	int-e: Rofl.
2020-09-24 02:09:34 +0200	<koz_>	TIL how Alt sausage gets made.
2020-09-24 02:09:51 +0200	<int-e>	(well, "littered" may be an exaggeration... but 4 occurrences is 4 more than I expected.)
2020-09-24 02:10:09 +0200	<koz_>	4 can be a lot.
2020-09-24 02:10:22 +0200	<koz_>	When referring to things ranging from 'wedding cakes at one event' to 'unsafeCoerce uses'.
2020-09-24 02:16:57 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 02:23:46 +0200	z0	(~z0@bl15-163-199.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-24 02:25:01 +0200	<z0>	> let p = [0,1,2] in (,) <$> p <*> p
2020-09-24 02:25:06 +0200	<lambdabot>	[(0,0),(0,1),(0,2),(1,0),(1,1),(1,2),(2,0),(2,1),(2,2)]
2020-09-24 02:26:15 +0200	<z0>	how would i go about doing this but avoiding "duplicates" considering that (1,0) and (0,1) are duplicates?
2020-09-24 02:27:07 +0200	<koz_>	z0: Filter it through a HashSet.
2020-09-24 02:27:52 +0200	zebrag	(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-113-36.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-09-24 02:28:00 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-24 02:30:46 +0200	zebrag	(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-113-36.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-24 02:31:00 +0200	<Cale>	> [(x,y) \| (x:ys) <- tails [0,1,2], y <- ys]
2020-09-24 02:31:03 +0200	<lambdabot>	[(0,1),(0,2),(1,2)]
2020-09-24 02:31:17 +0200	<Cale>	> [(x,y) \| (x:ys) <- tails [0,1,2], y <- (x:ys)]
2020-09-24 02:31:20 +0200	<lambdabot>	[(0,0),(0,1),(0,2),(1,1),(1,2),(2,2)]
2020-09-24 02:31:40 +0200	<Cale>	z0: ^^
2020-09-24 02:31:49 +0200	<z0>	thats it! thanks
2020-09-24 02:39:49 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@121.209.139.222) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 02:42:02 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 02:43:23 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Ambiguous occurrence ‘putStrLn’ for this use: main = putStrLn ("Hallo" :: Text)
2020-09-24 02:43:42 +0200	<koz_>	Is there some non-obvious reason why we have (Functor m, Monad m) => Applicative (StateT s m)?
2020-09-24 02:43:48 +0200	Gurkenglas	(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 02:43:48 +0200	<koz_>	Other than hysterical ones?
2020-09-24 02:43:56 +0200	<AWizzArd>	I wonder why GHC can’t figure out if String -> IO () should be used or better Text -> IO ()
2020-09-24 02:45:24 +0200	mitchellsalad	(uid40617@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-buqlvcdbvgdtirvi) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-24 02:46:22 +0200	<Axman6>	because the only type based dispatch Haskell has is via type classes
2020-09-24 02:47:02 +0200	<Axman6>	import qualified Data.Text.IO as TIO
2020-09-24 02:47:52 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2020-09-24 03:00:09 +0200	Ariakenom__	(~Ariakenom@h-98-128-180-170.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) (Quit: Leaving)
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2020-09-24 03:05:07 +0200	nbloomf	(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:f0fb:1679:1328:12c4)
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2020-09-24 03:07:34 +0200	lemmih_	lemmih
2020-09-24 03:08:55 +0200	asan	(~yan4138@124.78.128.72)
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2020-09-24 03:13:15 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Axman6: yes, a qualified import works perfectly, I just thought it could infer the function it needs to use via the :: Text sig. But now with what you said I understand it, thx.
2020-09-24 03:13:55 +0200	ryansmccoy	(~ryansmcco@156.96.151.132) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2020-09-24 03:55:57 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-09-24 03:56:45 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 03:59:24 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:d81b:49ea:d8f1:8f81)
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2020-09-24 04:00:46 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:01:25 +0200	xff0x	(~fox@2001:1a81:5294:e900:586c:a336:dadc:73a7)
2020-09-24 04:02:21 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-09-24 04:05:08 +0200	<koz_>	Is there an already-existing thing which is equivalent to Identity :+: Env e?
2020-09-24 04:07:03 +0200	urodna	(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna) (Quit: urodna)
2020-09-24 04:09:23 +0200	raehik	(~raehik@cpc96984-rdng25-2-0-cust109.15-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:09:37 +0200	<koz_>	Well, I guess that's Env (Maybe e)?
2020-09-24 04:09:46 +0200	nineonin_	(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-09-24 04:10:05 +0200	Rudd0	(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:11:24 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-24 04:12:05 +0200	<koz_>	> Nothing <> Just "a"
2020-09-24 04:12:07 +0200	<lambdabot>	Just "a"
2020-09-24 04:12:21 +0200	<koz_>	> Just "a" <> Just "b"
2020-09-24 04:12:24 +0200	<lambdabot>	Just "ab"
2020-09-24 04:12:35 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:12:49 +0200	<c_wraith>	that doesn't look right at all
2020-09-24 04:12:58 +0200	<Axman6>	Jesus, scala's documentations keeps getting better, insisting on using ⇒ instead of => in the docs for functions when they're arguments ot methods
2020-09-24 04:13:02 +0200	GyroW_	(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfb8c7gfd2lu92q.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-09-24 04:13:20 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-24 04:14:30 +0200	GyroW	(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:16:33 +0200	<dolio>	Axman6: Have you found the variable captures in the docs yet? :)
2020-09-24 04:17:16 +0200	<ddellacosta>	is Scala any good, for someone who enjoys Haskell?
2020-09-24 04:17:45 +0200	<Axman6>	no, not at all, it's a dumpster fire </personalOpinion>
2020-09-24 04:17:46 +0200	<dolio>	I don't think programming it like it's Haskell is very enjoyable.
2020-09-24 04:18:10 +0200	<Axman6>	I'm shocked by hpw crazy it is every day I try to do anything with it
2020-09-24 04:18:16 +0200	<ddellacosta>	thank you both
2020-09-24 04:20:30 +0200	<Axman6>	I knew before using it there were things that I wouldn't like about it, but it is just _so_ complex, it's the worst of Java's and Haskell's type systems in one, which seem to fight to remove all the niceties of both
2020-09-24 04:21:32 +0200	falafel	(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:25:03 +0200	<Axman6>	dolio: re your question, I don't know, there's so much that makes no sense to me in the docs. even just little things like "where is the string I need to copy to import this module
2020-09-24 04:25:19 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 04:25:22 +0200	<dolio>	Heh.
2020-09-24 04:25:23 +0200	asan	(~yan4138@124.78.128.72) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:26:21 +0200	asan	(~yan4138@58.37.8.8)
2020-09-24 04:28:28 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 04:29:22 +0200	lagothrix	Guest42381
2020-09-24 04:29:22 +0200	Guest42381	(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix) (Killed (hitchcock.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2020-09-24 04:29:27 +0200	<dolio>	Well, I don't know if they've fixed it recently, but it used to be that there were e.g. Maps that are a subtype of Collection, and the latter has one parameter `B`. Map has two, though, `K,A`, and `B = (K,A)`. But some methods are parametric over another `B`, for like `A => B` mapping, say. But then it also mentions the B from collection, and it can be difficult to tell which is referring to which.
2020-09-24 04:29:28 +0200	lagothrix	(~lagothrix@unaffiliated/lagothrix)
2020-09-24 04:30:03 +0200	<dolio>	You can tell because it will say something like `Map[B]` in some of those cases instead of `Map[K,A]`.
2020-09-24 04:30:12 +0200	<dolio>	Anyhow, be aware of that.
2020-09-24 04:30:48 +0200	<dolio>	Because it's easy to get confused for a while if you're not.
2020-09-24 04:30:49 +0200	<Axman6>	:'(
2020-09-24 04:30:52 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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2020-09-24 04:39:29 +0200	aplainzetakind	(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
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2020-09-24 04:45:50 +0200	ichimaru	(~ichimaru@45.63.97.131)
2020-09-24 04:46:29 +0200	DirefulSalt	(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-09-24 04:46:53 +0200	eedgit2	(~chat.free@95.179.237.21)
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2020-09-24 04:51:47 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@130.102.13.66)
2020-09-24 04:51:47 +0200	Lord_of_Life	(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:51:55 +0200	<dibblego>	scala is pretty broken
2020-09-24 04:52:31 +0200	<Axman6>	Don't oversell it
2020-09-24 04:52:39 +0200	perdent	(~k4fr@101.175.167.92)
2020-09-24 04:53:48 +0200	<dibblego>	scala programmers do a great job of that already
2020-09-24 04:54:03 +0200	Lord_of_Life	(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-09-24 04:56:13 +0200	machinedgod	(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:56:56 +0200	theDon	(~td@94.134.91.62) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 04:56:59 +0200	<arahael>	I tried to learn scala many years ago. The syntax was... Insane. I gave up before I even decided to install the tools, and just learnt haskell instead.
2020-09-24 04:57:22 +0200	sagax	(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-09-24 04:57:37 +0200	<Axman6>	Neo level bullet dodging
2020-09-24 04:58:09 +0200	theDon	(~td@muedsl-82-207-238-238.citykom.de)
2020-09-24 04:58:38 +0200	sand_dull	(~theuser@62.182.99.37) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 05:00:02 +0200	xchg	(~xchg@s91904426.blix.com) ()
2020-09-24 05:00:36 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 05:01:37 +0200	dale	(dale@2600:3c02::f03c:92ff:feb4:61d1)
2020-09-24 05:02:10 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 05:02:26 +0200	dale	(dale@2600:3c02::f03c:92ff:feb4:61d1) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 05:02:36 +0200	dale	(dale@unaffiliated/dale)
2020-09-24 05:04:12 +0200	<arahael>	Yep. My general strategy is to use my overly-inflated sense of personal competence: "If I can't understand it, what chance would most people on the team have?"
2020-09-24 05:06:31 +0200	darjeeling_	(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2020-09-24 05:09:40 +0200	wagle	(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
2020-09-24 05:10:14 +0200	wagle	(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
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2020-09-24 05:12:08 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
2020-09-24 05:12:13 +0200	eedgit2	(~chat.free@95.179.237.21) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 05:13:50 +0200	ransom	(~c4264035@c-73-243-2-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 05:18:56 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 05:19:17 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 05:19:22 +0200	<edwardk>	arahael: i did it the hard way. actually learned the syntax, tried to use it, then finally stopped apologizing for it and decided 'never again' and moved on.
2020-09-24 05:20:04 +0200	<arahael>	:)
2020-09-24 05:25:57 +0200	ransom	(~c4264035@2601:285:201:6720:9d84:bbd0:b468:a8d0)
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2020-09-24 05:29:17 +0200	wagle	(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
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2020-09-24 05:29:56 +0200	wagle	(~wagle@quassel.wagle.io)
2020-09-24 05:30:07 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
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2020-09-24 05:50:21 +0200	eric	(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491)
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2020-09-24 05:54:19 +0200	GyroW	(~GyroW@d54C03E98.access.telenet.be) (Changing host)
2020-09-24 05:54:19 +0200	GyroW	(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow)
2020-09-24 05:54:37 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 05:56:02 +0200	eric	(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 05:59:28 +0200	hackage	lens-core 0.2 - A placeholder for a future lens core package. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens-core-0.2 (EdwardKmett)
2020-09-24 06:00:01 +0200	alexelcu	(~alexelcu@142.93.180.198) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-24 06:00:04 +0200	ericsagnes	(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:f5d1:c8d5:aa2:3189)
2020-09-24 06:00:25 +0200	Rudd0	(~Rudd0@185.189.115.98)
2020-09-24 06:00:40 +0200	jdgr	(601c428b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.96.28.66.139)
2020-09-24 06:00:51 +0200	alexelcu	(~alexelcu@142.93.180.198)
2020-09-24 06:02:30 +0200	Turmfalke	(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
2020-09-24 06:02:41 +0200	zacts	(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
2020-09-24 06:02:46 +0200	eedgit2	(~chat.free@95.179.237.21)
2020-09-24 06:03:33 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
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2020-09-24 06:06:38 +0200	lambda-11235	(~lambda-11@108-237-120-58.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 06:07:16 +0200	<edwardk>	^ this is not a real package
2020-09-24 06:07:40 +0200	<edwardk>	it is mostly to avoid the confusion that was being caused by the old package under the name lens-core
2020-09-24 06:07:51 +0200	<dmwit>	Why are there so many versions lmao
2020-09-24 06:08:18 +0200	<edwardk>	because someone else was using the name
2020-09-24 06:08:50 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 06:09:09 +0200	Faker	(bd0fcbd1@189.15.203.209) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 06:09:14 +0200	day_	(~Unknown@unaffiliated/day)
2020-09-24 06:10:15 +0200	<dmwit>	Oh, this was a MatthewFarkasDyck package. Okay I completely understand now.
2020-09-24 06:10:17 +0200	<glguy>	Spot the nonexistent package: lens-lite; lens-light; microlens; lens-simple
2020-09-24 06:11:02 +0200	Lycurgus	(~niemand@98.4.96.130)
2020-09-24 06:11:22 +0200	<glguy>	lens-from-scratch; not-another-lens; you-could-have-invented-lens; optics
2020-09-24 06:11:45 +0200	buckworst	(~nate@125.161.70.37)
2020-09-24 06:12:18 +0200	<Lycurgus>	lenscrafters
2020-09-24 06:12:24 +0200	<davean>	glguy: Trick question?
2020-09-24 06:12:28 +0200	<glguy>	I think my next lens package would be: yall (yet another lens library)
2020-09-24 06:12:52 +0200	day	(~Unknown@unaffiliated/day) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 06:12:53 +0200	day_	day
2020-09-24 06:12:56 +0200	<koz_>	lens-2-electric-boogaloo
2020-09-24 06:12:56 +0200	<glguy>	but that one is taken; it's also a lens library
2020-09-24 06:13:01 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	and it's support pakcage y'all yet' another lens library
2020-09-24 06:13:06 +0200	martin____	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cggakmbaikigvgzv) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-24 06:13:06 +0200	martin___	(uid411878@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erkznfebkxmjtljg) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-24 06:13:18 +0200	<glguy>	davean: One of those first 4 didn't exist (on Hackage) yet
2020-09-24 06:13:43 +0200	z0_	(~z0@bl17-248-65.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-24 06:13:46 +0200	buckworst	(~nate@125.161.70.37) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 06:14:05 +0200	<edwardk>	i really want to break lens internally into multiple public sublibraries using cabal 3.4, but i can't yet.
2020-09-24 06:14:27 +0200	<davean>	I can't wait either
2020-09-24 06:14:28 +0200	<edwardk>	but once i can? then you'd be able to depend on smaller pieces of it if you know what you're doing
2020-09-24 06:14:35 +0200	<davean>	I've got a lot of code moving to do once that works well
2020-09-24 06:14:47 +0200	<edwardk>	of course, i think there is still a stack issue on multiple component support
2020-09-24 06:14:53 +0200	<dmwit>	How does back-compat work for that? What does cabal-3.3 do if you ask it to install a 3.4 package?
2020-09-24 06:14:58 +0200	<davean>	Its one of the most exciting features in a while.
2020-09-24 06:15:01 +0200	<edwardk>	it won't
2020-09-24 06:15:04 +0200	<davean>	dmwit: who cares?
2020-09-24 06:15:16 +0200	<davean>	dmwit: theres not any reason to care at all about old cabals.
2020-09-24 06:15:18 +0200	<dmwit>	"It won't" seems like a pretty sane answer.
2020-09-24 06:15:42 +0200	<davean>	No one should be held back on cabal.
2020-09-24 06:15:52 +0200	<edwardk>	in theory i might be able to make the whole shebang work with cabal 3.0 and you only get to access the sub-components with 3.4
2020-09-24 06:15:56 +0200	<edwardk>	but i'm not holding my breath
2020-09-24 06:16:02 +0200	<edwardk>	and that is a LOT of compatibility testing
2020-09-24 06:16:23 +0200	<glguy>	That's good, because most people can't hold their breath quite as long as that is likely to take
2020-09-24 06:16:42 +0200	<edwardk>	i'd code like my life depended on it, for sure
2020-09-24 06:16:53 +0200	<edwardk>	but that might be beyond me
2020-09-24 06:17:02 +0200	<glguy>	Maybe a new Twitch series?
2020-09-24 06:17:11 +0200	<glguy>	How much can edward program on a single breath
2020-09-24 06:17:11 +0200	<edwardk>	i should start twitching again
2020-09-24 06:17:22 +0200	z0	(~z0@bl15-163-199.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 06:17:38 +0200	<dolio>	I don't know. That sounds bad.
2020-09-24 06:17:40 +0200	gienah	(~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-24 06:17:41 +0200	dibblego	twitches
2020-09-24 06:17:41 +0200	<glguy>	It would be a shorter series than your usual stuff, but possible a good format ;)
2020-09-24 06:19:36 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 06:22:37 +0200	fresheyeball	(~isaac@c-71-237-105-37.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 06:22:39 +0200	<fresheyeball>	map :: (forall a. f a -> g a) -> h f b -> h g b
2020-09-24 06:22:43 +0200	<fresheyeball>	what would you call this?
2020-09-24 06:22:43 +0200	vicfred	(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-24 06:23:11 +0200	ahmr88	(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-24 06:23:19 +0200	<dolio>	Is that what people call 'hoist'?
2020-09-24 06:24:10 +0200	<fresheyeball>	oh nice, yes
2020-09-24 06:24:13 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 06:24:22 +0200	vicfred	(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
2020-09-24 06:26:09 +0200	<fresheyeball>	dolio: do you think it's worth depending on mmorph for it?
2020-09-24 06:26:18 +0200	<dolio>	Not really.
2020-09-24 06:27:48 +0200	ahmr88	(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 06:27:49 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2020-09-24 06:42:22 +0200	justsomeguy	(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
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2020-09-24 07:09:26 +0200	asan	(~yan4138@58.37.8.8)
2020-09-24 07:09:34 +0200	DirefulSalt	(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-09-24 07:10:45 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 07:13:25 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:14:27 +0200	sudden	(~lax@unaffiliated/laxask) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:15:44 +0200	pera	(~pera@unaffiliated/pera) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 07:15:53 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
2020-09-24 07:18:14 +0200	_vaibhavingale_	(~Adium@110.172.22.172)
2020-09-24 07:20:29 +0200	bahamas	(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-24 07:20:30 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:3979:4558:7f46:aa85) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 07:20:35 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:21:03 +0200	takuan	(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
2020-09-24 07:22:40 +0200	<Axman6>	@hoogle hoist
2020-09-24 07:22:40 +0200	<lambdabot>	Pipes hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . () => m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2020-09-24 07:22:40 +0200	<lambdabot>	Control.Monad.Morph hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2020-09-24 07:22:41 +0200	<lambdabot>	Streaming hoist :: (MFunctor t, Monad m) => (forall a . () => m a -> n a) -> t m b -> t n b
2020-09-24 07:23:22 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 07:23:37 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 07:25:55 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@pool-108-51-85-122.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-24 07:26:40 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@pool-108-51-85-122.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 07:26:59 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@pool-108-51-85-122.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-09-24 07:27:13 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:d848:6c87:6887:fb0c)
2020-09-24 07:27:29 +0200	Guest40023	lep-delete
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2020-09-24 07:27:52 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:28:55 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 07:29:45 +0200	plutoniix	(~q@175.176.222.7)
2020-09-24 07:30:37 +0200	mirrorbird	(~psutcliff@2a00:801:44a:a00b:20c3:c64:eb15:73a2)
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2020-09-24 07:37:13 +0200	stree	(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
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2020-09-24 07:42:04 +0200	Tops2	(~Tobias@dyndsl-095-033-089-098.ewe-ip-backbone.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2020-09-24 07:46:51 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 07:48:43 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@130.102.13.66) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 07:49:27 +0200	ruffianeo	(~ruffianeo@p200300e5271f091a0b5616d2c2715e0a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:49:39 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 07:50:33 +0200	nbloomf	(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:f0fb:1679:1328:12c4) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 07:50:51 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 07:51:19 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@130.102.13.66)
2020-09-24 07:51:47 +0200	perdent	(~k4fr@101.175.167.92)
2020-09-24 07:52:22 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:52:25 +0200	eric	(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491)
2020-09-24 07:54:39 +0200	Inoperable	(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science) (Excess Flood)
2020-09-24 07:56:09 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:57:19 +0200	eric	(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 07:57:32 +0200	polyrain	(~polyrain@130.102.13.66) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-09-24 07:57:46 +0200	poljar	(~poljar@93-139-70-179.adsl.net.t-com.hr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 07:58:17 +0200	poljar	(~poljar@93-139-70-179.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
2020-09-24 07:59:51 +0200	vk3wtf	(~doc@27-32-252-91.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
2020-09-24 08:00:23 +0200	Inoperable	(~PLAYER_1@fancydata.science)
2020-09-24 08:00:55 +0200	vk3wtf	(~doc@27-32-252-91.tpgi.com.au)
2020-09-24 08:01:36 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-24 08:01:45 +0200	stree	(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
2020-09-24 08:02:02 +0200	stree	(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-24 08:03:12 +0200	falafel	(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 08:03:12 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 08:03:26 +0200	gienah	(~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah)
2020-09-24 08:04:50 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:d848:6c87:6887:fb0c) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 08:06:27 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-24 08:06:32 +0200	oish	(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-24 08:07:04 +0200	<newhoggy>	Does anyone know if there is any way to get a `ResourceT` to discard all the registered cleanup actions?
2020-09-24 08:07:47 +0200	stree	(~stree@50-108-115-67.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Caught exception)
2020-09-24 08:07:48 +0200	banner	(~banner@220.238.243.193)
2020-09-24 08:07:48 +0200	banner	(~banner@220.238.243.193) (Client Quit)
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2020-09-24 08:15:40 +0200	<newhoggy>	Or even better move all the cleanup actions into an `IO ()` or something like that and then not do any cleanup.
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2020-09-24 09:09:21 +0200	<petersen>	Is there a patch to make hgrep work with CPP? (I am not sure if it stopped working?)
2020-09-24 09:09:38 +0200	Tuplanolla	(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
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2020-09-24 09:30:04 +0200	<dminuoso>	petersen: Judging from a quick look, it should have CPP support already.
2020-09-24 09:30:27 +0200	<dminuoso>	https://github.com/thumphries/hgrep/issues/39
2020-09-24 09:30:34 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
2020-09-24 09:30:59 +0200	<dminuoso>	You just need to figure out what the magical location of that settings file. ;)
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2020-09-24 09:48:48 +0200	kritzefitz	(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com)
2020-09-24 09:49:57 +0200	hackage	dawg-ord 0.5.1.1 - Directed acyclic word graphs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dawg-ord-0.5.1.1 (JakubWaszczuk)
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2020-09-24 09:53:27 +0200	hackage	Z-Data 0.1.3.0 - Array, vector and text https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Data-0.1.3.0 (winterland)
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2020-09-24 10:15:09 +0200	jonathanx	(~jonathan@dyn-8-sc.cdg.chalmers.se)
2020-09-24 10:17:58 +0200	hackage	dawg-ord 0.5.1.2 - Directed acyclic word graphs https://hackage.haskell.org/package/dawg-ord-0.5.1.2 (JakubWaszczuk)
2020-09-24 10:18:20 +0200	lucid_0x80	(~lucid_0x8@188.253.229.142)
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2020-09-24 10:21:10 +0200	<idnar>	reading http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/using-brain-less-refactoring-yahtzee/ and I think the parametricity argument is flawed because of the Eq superclass
2020-09-24 10:22:08 +0200	<phadej>	idnar: Num doesn't have Eq type-class
2020-09-24 10:22:19 +0200	<phadej>	(anymore)
2020-09-24 10:22:37 +0200	<phadej>	https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.14.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#t:Num
2020-09-24 10:22:48 +0200	lambda-11235	(~lambda-11@108-237-120-58.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Bye)
2020-09-24 10:23:02 +0200	<idnar>	huh, when was it changed?
2020-09-24 10:23:12 +0200	maerwald	(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de) (Quit: gone)
2020-09-24 10:23:46 +0200	<phadej>	https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.5.0.0/docs/Prelude.html#t:Num is the first without
2020-09-24 10:23:53 +0200	<phadej>	i.e. GHC-7.4
2020-09-24 10:24:04 +0200	<phadej>	8 years ago ;)
2020-09-24 10:24:12 +0200	<idnar>	wow
2020-09-24 10:24:29 +0200	maerwald	(~maerwald@mail.hasufell.de)
2020-09-24 10:24:53 +0200	<idnar>	I think that's older than any ghc version I've even used
2020-09-24 10:25:33 +0200	<idnar>	must have read it in the H98 report or something
2020-09-24 10:25:45 +0200	s00pcan	(~chris@075-133-056-178.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 10:26:27 +0200	hackage	hanabi-dealer 0.10.2.0 - Hanabi card game https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hanabi-dealer-0.10.2.0 (SusumuKatayama)
2020-09-24 10:26:50 +0200	Gurkenglas	(~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas)
2020-09-24 10:27:40 +0200	s00pcan	(~chris@107.181.165.217)
2020-09-24 10:30:26 +0200	chaosmasttter	(~chaosmast@p200300c4a714f101b8e97b5389efff25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 10:31:02 +0200	nkly	(~nkly@2a02:8109:9a80:a74:201:2eff:fe81:c6dc) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 10:32:30 +0200	<merijn>	idnar: GHC user guide has a section on deviations from the report
2020-09-24 10:32:56 +0200	datajerk	(~datajerk@sense.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 10:33:14 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@pool-108-51-85-122.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 10:33:52 +0200	<shad0w_>	hi. i wanna see info on the Functor typeclass in ghci
2020-09-24 10:34:09 +0200	<shad0w_>	:i (Functor) or permutations doesn't seem to work ?
2020-09-24 10:35:19 +0200	<phadej>	try :i Functor
2020-09-24 10:35:23 +0200	<phadej>	without paranthesis
2020-09-24 10:35:40 +0200	<shad0w_>	lmao. i am an idot.
2020-09-24 10:35:46 +0200	<shad0w_>	thenks.
2020-09-24 10:37:00 +0200	nkly	(~nkly@2a02:8109:9a80:a74:201:2eff:fe81:c6dd)
2020-09-24 10:38:39 +0200	fendor	(~fendor@178.165.129.251.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2020-09-24 10:55:10 +0200	SanchayanM	(~Sanchayan@171.76.101.244)
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2020-09-24 10:55:31 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Yesterday I was looking for something bind-like for Monoids. `Config` is a Semigroup/Monoid. setA, setB, ... setX, setY, setZ are functions of type :: x -> Config -> Config (or instead of x it can be the letter after "set", so a/b/.../y/z).
2020-09-24 10:55:34 +0200	SanchayanM	(~Sanchayan@171.76.101.244)
2020-09-24 10:55:40 +0200	Sanchayan	(~Sanchayan@122.167.81.155) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 10:55:45 +0200	<AWizzArd>	If I continue like this then the nesting would become very deep: let conf = setX myX (setY myY defaultConfig)
2020-09-24 10:56:20 +0200	<merijn>	AWizzArd: oh, lemme tell you a cool trick :p
2020-09-24 10:56:26 +0200	<merijn>	Config is a Monoid, yeah?
2020-09-24 10:57:17 +0200	<merijn>	You can simply do "setX myX <> setY myY" (or, if you've got a lot of them: "mconcat [setX myX, setY myY, ... ]")
2020-09-24 11:00:01 +0200	jmp-TOK1	(~jmp-TOK@185.163.110.116) ()
2020-09-24 11:00:39 +0200	boistordu	(boistordum@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-znueblbzpfbcdbpl) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-09-24 11:00:46 +0200	<AWizzArd>	merijn: I am surprised.
2020-09-24 11:00:57 +0200	<merijn>	Why?
2020-09-24 11:01:00 +0200	<AWizzArd>	(<>) :: Semigroup a => a -> a -> a
2020-09-24 11:01:13 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@100.36.54.163)
2020-09-24 11:01:22 +0200	tomboy64	(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 11:01:34 +0200	<AWizzArd>	So you are not using the Semigroup implementation of Config here?
2020-09-24 11:01:41 +0200	<merijn>	AWizzArd: "instance Semigroup a => Semigroup (r -> a) where f <> g = \x -> f x <> g x"
2020-09-24 11:01:58 +0200	<merijn>	It's the best Monoid/Semigroup instance!
2020-09-24 11:01:59 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Aha, so you are using the fact that Functions are a Semigroup
2020-09-24 11:02:12 +0200	<merijn>	Yeah
2020-09-24 11:02:16 +0200	<AWizzArd>	merijn: this was essentially what I was looking for. I saw this, dunno, a year ago.
2020-09-24 11:02:31 +0200	<AWizzArd>	But I remembered that Config was the SG constraint I was looking for.
2020-09-24 11:02:37 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	AWizzArd: Seconding merijn, you could go further and use any other Foldable than [] and write `flip (appEndo . foldMap Endo) defaultConfig`.
2020-09-24 11:02:39 +0200	<AWizzArd>	And it didn’t play well with <>
2020-09-24 11:03:28 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Well, yesterday we came up with foldr ($) defaultConfig [setX myX, setY myY, ...]
2020-09-24 11:03:28 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 11:03:30 +0200	tomboy64	(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64)
2020-09-24 11:03:39 +0200	<AWizzArd>	But this wasn’t using the Semigroupnissity here.
2020-09-24 11:09:02 +0200	tomboy64	(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 11:09:49 +0200	tomboy64	(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64)
2020-09-24 11:11:17 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Another thing that surprised me: main = putStrLn ("Hallo" :: Text) <-- GHC complained about ambiguity. I would have expected that this explicit `:: Text` would help. GHC would understand that I didn’t accidentally hit the wrong key because a pencil fell on my keyboard and this happened to write exactly this char combination.
2020-09-24 11:11:50 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 11:12:07 +0200	chele	(~chele@2a02:8106:1:f900:faca:b8ff:fe2f:8499)
2020-09-24 11:12:17 +0200	<merijn>	AWizzArd: Would help how? What was the ambiguity?
2020-09-24 11:12:45 +0200	oish	(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 11:12:52 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	@type putStrLn -- AWizzArd
2020-09-24 11:12:53 +0200	<lambdabot>	String -> IO ()
2020-09-24 11:13:27 +0200	<AWizzArd>	hekkaidekapus: I was using the one from Data.Text.IO (putStrLn)
2020-09-24 11:13:39 +0200	<AWizzArd>	So both functions were in scope.
2020-09-24 11:13:53 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	So, qualify the usage.
2020-09-24 11:14:13 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	Prelude. or Data.Text.
2020-09-24 11:14:15 +0200	<AWizzArd>	hekkaidekapus: yes of course, the fix was easy. But why didn’t the explicit type sig not help?
2020-09-24 11:14:18 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	Prelude. or Data.Text.IO
2020-09-24 11:14:31 +0200	<AWizzArd>	-not
2020-09-24 11:14:55 +0200	oish	(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-24 11:15:49 +0200	<lortabac>	AWizzArd: for name overloading you need a type class
2020-09-24 11:15:50 +0200	<hekkaidekapus>	Because ("Hallo" :: Text) is its own thing and does not influence how putStrLn works.
2020-09-24 11:19:07 +0200	bahamas	(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-24 11:20:00 +0200	daa	(c1c6b9ce@193.198.185.206)
2020-09-24 11:20:51 +0200	<merijn>	AWizzArd: GHC doesn't do type directed resolution, so adding a type annotation does nothing
2020-09-24 11:20:52 +0200	<edwardk>	idnar: removing the Eq and Show superclasses of Num was done to allow things like instance Num a => Num (x -> a) to not have to lie to users any more if brought in as an orphan. It isn't in scope by default, but it is a thing that was popular with the community at the time.
2020-09-24 11:21:04 +0200	<edwardk>	it was one of the first major breaks with the published report in GHC.
2020-09-24 11:21:41 +0200	bshum1	(~bshum@195.206.169.184)
2020-09-24 11:21:49 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-24 11:27:13 +0200	stree_	(~stree@50-108-126-14.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-24 11:27:13 +0200	cosimone	(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6)
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2020-09-24 11:28:41 +0200	<shad0w_>	`Any Haskeller worth their salt would reject this code as a gruesome abomination. `
2020-09-24 11:28:48 +0200	Noglues	(284a7b51@40.74.123.81)
2020-09-24 11:28:54 +0200	<shad0w_>	- as read on typeclassopedia
2020-09-24 11:28:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	LMAO
2020-09-24 11:29:44 +0200	Noglues	(284a7b51@40.74.123.81) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 11:29:50 +0200	<AWizzArd>	shad0w_: (-:
2020-09-24 11:31:29 +0200	<shad0w_>	AWizzArd: lmao, what is that, Schrödinger's smiley ?
2020-09-24 11:31:50 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	sometimes you gotta dodge left
2020-09-24 11:32:01 +0200	<AWizzArd>	MarcelineVQ: hahaha
2020-09-24 11:32:15 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 11:32:47 +0200	dhil	(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-24 11:33:21 +0200	<AWizzArd>	MarcelineVQ: I just tried it, and we would have to do it like a chicken, i.e. keeping our head in the position it was before. That way the head will fall on its right side, and the truth of (-: becomes visible.
2020-09-24 11:34:49 +0200	danvet	(~danvet@2a02:168:57f4:0:5f80:650d:c6e6:3453) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-24 11:35:09 +0200	carlomagno1	(~cararell@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com)
2020-09-24 11:35:53 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	after all, why did the chicken cross the road
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2020-09-24 11:38:39 +0200	ubert1	(~Thunderbi@91.141.2.79.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-09-24 11:38:40 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 11:39:19 +0200	<tdammers>	yeah, that was stupid. don't mess with the road, it'll send its goons to kidnap your children and kill them just to teach you to mind your own fucking business
2020-09-24 11:39:38 +0200	<tdammers>	anyway
2020-09-24 11:40:22 +0200	ubert	(~Thunderbi@91.141.1.30.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 11:40:22 +0200	ubert1	ubert
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2020-09-24 11:44:10 +0200	<pjb>	tdammers: yep: https://www.marcelhuijserphotography.com/blog/2014/12/road-ecology-blog-why-did-the-chicken-cross-…
2020-09-24 11:44:52 +0200	<MarcelineVQ>	all part of the unwritten book a da road
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2020-09-24 12:24:28 +0200	hackage	libsystemd-journal 1.4.5 - Haskell bindings to libsystemd-journal https://hackage.haskell.org/package/libsystemd-journal-1.4.5 (OliverCharles)
2020-09-24 12:25:40 +0200	cpressey	(~cpressey@79-72-202-6.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
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2020-09-24 12:38:26 +0200	bahamas	(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
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2020-09-24 12:40:07 +0200	wjwh	(54f509f0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.245.9.240)
2020-09-24 12:42:20 +0200	<wjwh>	Quick question: If I have a data structure with a single field like `data ShortText = { contents :: {-# UNPACK #-} !ShortByteString }` , is it always better to make it a `newtype` ? I may want to expand it later with cached character counts etc
2020-09-24 12:43:14 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 12:43:36 +0200	<Uniaika>	wjwh: newtypes are more appropriate when there is a single field
2020-09-24 12:43:58 +0200	<Uniaika>	otherwise, just use `data`
2020-09-24 12:44:12 +0200	meditans	(uid129819@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnbjhlecdsqalsub)
2020-09-24 12:44:26 +0200	<Uniaika>	wjwh: now, to answer your question: you can use `newtype` at first and then convert to `data`
2020-09-24 12:44:31 +0200	urodna	(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2020-09-24 12:44:37 +0200	<Uniaika>	it's not going to cost you much
2020-09-24 12:44:38 +0200	<wjwh>	Fair enough, that might be simpler
2020-09-24 12:45:36 +0200	<wjwh>	I'm confusing myself mightily with all this `deriving` stuff, probably more than is necessary
2020-09-24 12:45:37 +0200	<wjwh>	:)
2020-09-24 12:45:43 +0200	alexm_	(~AlexM87@161.8.233.138)
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2020-09-24 12:49:32 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-24 12:50:33 +0200	alexm_	(~alexm_@161.8.233.138)
2020-09-24 12:50:51 +0200	<wjwh>	Just tested, `UNPACK` won't work with `newtype` but I suppose that's less important for a newtype anyway
2020-09-24 12:52:43 +0200	<Uniaika>	wjwh: https://kowainik.github.io/posts/deriving
2020-09-24 12:52:45 +0200	<Uniaika>	read.
2020-09-24 12:52:51 +0200	<Uniaika>	it's good content.
2020-09-24 12:52:53 +0200	<wjwh>	I already had it open :)
2020-09-24 12:53:21 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 12:54:05 +0200	<wjwh>	But the confusion comes not from the deriving syntax but from that I want some of the instances to differ from the underlying type but not all. :)
2020-09-24 12:54:40 +0200	<wjwh>	Ie `Functor` on ShortText should iterate over the utf8 codepoints, not over the bytes in the underlying ShortByteString
2020-09-24 12:54:41 +0200	<wjwh>	etc
2020-09-24 12:55:08 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 12:55:56 +0200	<merijn>	wjwh: ShortText can't be a functor
2020-09-24 12:56:03 +0200	<merijn>	The kind doesn't match
2020-09-24 12:56:58 +0200	<wjwh>	Fair enough. The Show instance then :)
2020-09-24 12:58:03 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 13:00:50 +0200	<Uniaika>	wjwh: I'm interested in how you're going to pull this off. :P Meanwhile, when I'm feeling nostalgic of proper string types, I read this https://hexdocs.pm/elixir/String.html
2020-09-24 13:00:51 +0200	Stanley00	(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2020-09-24 13:03:29 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-24 13:04:51 +0200	<wjwh>	Uniaika FastString is already 80% of what we need, being an UTF-8 encoded ShortByteString with some extra fluff like hash consing. I'm going to reuse most of that, including the String -> ShortByteString UTF8 parsing from GHC.Util.Encoding. I looked at https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/4103 to see which functions I need to start
2020-09-24 13:04:52 +0200	<wjwh>	off with for package database reading and it's very manageable. I think the only thing we really need that is not already in FastString is a `Binary` instance
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2020-09-24 13:28:18 +0200	gmt	(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-09-24 13:30:09 +0200	hekkaidekapus_	(~tchouri@gateway/tor-sasl/hekkaidekapus)
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2020-09-24 13:32:27 +0200	hackage	Z-Data 0.1.3.1 - Array, vector and text https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-Data-0.1.3.1 (winterland)
2020-09-24 13:32:30 +0200	cfricke	(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke)
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2020-09-24 13:39:20 +0200	perdent	(~blah@101.175.167.92)
2020-09-24 13:39:31 +0200	dhil	(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net)
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2020-09-24 13:44:55 +0200	Amras	(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
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2020-09-24 13:46:38 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 13:46:57 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 13:48:06 +0200	<kuribas>	> 1 `quot` 0
2020-09-24 13:48:08 +0200	<lambdabot>	*Exception: divide by zero
2020-09-24 13:48:44 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2020-09-24 13:54:15 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
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2020-09-24 13:58:39 +0200	z0	Guest74273
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2020-09-24 14:00:02 +0200	bshum1	(~bshum@195.206.169.184) ()
2020-09-24 14:00:13 +0200	alx741	(~alx741@181.196.68.114)
2020-09-24 14:06:39 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 14:07:13 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-24 14:09:03 +0200	chalkmonster	(~chalkmons@unaffiliated/chalkmonster)
2020-09-24 14:11:04 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 14:11:57 +0200	hackage	sized 0.7.0.0 - Sized sequence data-types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sized-0.7.0.0 (HiromiIshii)
2020-09-24 14:14:17 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 14:16:15 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
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2020-09-24 14:20:09 +0200	<dminuoso>	`wjwh \| [10:54:39] Ie `Functor` on ShortText should iterate over the utf8 codepoints, not over the bytes in the underlying ShortByteString`
2020-09-24 14:20:16 +0200	<dminuoso>	Ignoring merijn's point, why the codepoints?
2020-09-24 14:20:46 +0200	Saten-san	(~Saten-san@ip-213-49-123-19.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-09-24 14:20:56 +0200	<dminuoso>	Once you get into textual data, there's lots of different and conflicting notions of what the "unit of reference is"
2020-09-24 14:22:16 +0200	<phadej>	I feel that wjwh made a mistake to ask about text stuff on this channel
2020-09-24 14:22:39 +0200	<wjwh>	:)
2020-09-24 14:23:01 +0200	fweht	(uid404746@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehvjvkalrkehovwt)
2020-09-24 14:23:08 +0200	fweht	(uid404746@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehvjvkalrkehovwt) ()
2020-09-24 14:24:09 +0200	ChaiTRex	(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 14:24:23 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-24 14:24:41 +0200	ChaiTRex	(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
2020-09-24 14:24:59 +0200	shad0w_	(~shad0w_@160.202.37.157) (Quit: shad0w_)
2020-09-24 14:25:24 +0200	<merijn>	Dealing with text is a mistake :p
2020-09-24 14:26:35 +0200	<pjb>	there's no such thing as utf8 codepoint.
2020-09-24 14:26:43 +0200	<pjb>	unicode codepoints are 21-bit.
2020-09-24 14:26:54 +0200	<pjb>	utf8 is a way to encode those 21-bit in a sequence of 8-bit bytes.
2020-09-24 14:27:40 +0200	<dminuoso>	Heh, I was debating whether to nitpick about that as well.
2020-09-24 14:27:43 +0200	<opqdonut>	surely there's an option to expand to at least 32 bits?
2020-09-24 14:27:57 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 14:28:09 +0200	<tdammers>	of course. trivially by padding with zeroes, or more involvedly using utf32 encoding
2020-09-24 14:28:15 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-24 14:28:35 +0200	<dminuoso>	opqdonut: Sure, but at the end a codepoint is the identifier of a character in the unicode tables. So there's no "utf8 codepoints" but "unicode codepoints"
2020-09-24 14:28:36 +0200	<opqdonut>	looks like utf-8 supports 31 bits, utf-16 doesn't
2020-09-24 14:28:51 +0200	<opqdonut>	dminuoso: yes, I just got surprised by the 21 bits
2020-09-24 14:29:03 +0200	<merijn>	opqdonut: Why?
2020-09-24 14:29:15 +0200	<merijn>	opqdonut: That's how many unicode codepoints there are
2020-09-24 14:29:30 +0200	AlterEgo-	(~ladew@124-198-158-163.dynamic.caiway.nl)
2020-09-24 14:29:34 +0200	<merijn>	More might be added in the future, sure, but we're not in the future :)
2020-09-24 14:29:37 +0200	<dminuoso>	17 planes with 2^16 codepoints each.
2020-09-24 14:29:44 +0200	<opqdonut>	and not all planes are in use
2020-09-24 14:29:51 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 14:30:03 +0200	<opqdonut>	TIL
2020-09-24 14:31:08 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 14:32:30 +0200	<dminuoso>	Question... I have a servant app that runs with monad-logger for a custom server monad. I extract the logger with `askLoggerIO`, and build a wai middleware logger with it, and at the end I just run with runStdoutLoggingT which just uses `Data.ByteString.Char8.hPutStr stdout`
2020-09-24 14:33:00 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2020-09-24 14:33:04 +0200	nyd	(~nyd@unaffiliated/elysian) (Quit: nyd)
2020-09-24 14:33:07 +0200	<dminuoso>	This thing runs inside a docker container, and for reasons that beyond me, the log calls from inside the servant handlers do not produce visible output, while the wai middleware logger does
2020-09-24 14:33:15 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 14:33:25 +0200	<dminuoso>	The moment I set buffering mode to NoBuffering, the logging from the monad handler re-appears
2020-09-24 14:33:50 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-24 14:34:42 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 14:34:42 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 14:34:47 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 14:35:07 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 14:36:41 +0200	<phadej>	are you sure that your hoistServer sets up the logger properly?
2020-09-24 14:36:54 +0200	<arianvp>	phadej: is there any documentation of the haskell-ci config format?
2020-09-24 14:37:03 +0200	<phadej>	i.e. that the askLoggerIO you get isn't some $ \_ -> ()
2020-09-24 14:37:09 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-24 14:37:12 +0200	<arianvp>	(fixing up the CI for servant to support ghc-8.10 =) )
2020-09-24 14:37:13 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:4ccc:a9c7:5cc7:b953)
2020-09-24 14:38:17 +0200	NinjaTrappeur	(~ninja@unaffiliated/ninjatrappeur)
2020-09-24 14:38:34 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-24 14:38:38 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 14:38:58 +0200	<phadej>	adding tested-with: GHC ... \|\| == 8.10.2 should do the trick
2020-09-24 14:39:24 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 14:40:01 +0200	<phadej>	haskell-ci --help lists the options, which can be used in cabal.haskell-ci
2020-09-24 14:40:02 +0200	John20	(~John@82.46.59.122) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 14:40:49 +0200	<phadej>	there's also `haskell-ci dump-config` which dumps default config (with comments) if you want to see what knobs are there
2020-09-24 14:41:07 +0200	John20	(~John@82.46.59.122)
2020-09-24 14:42:20 +0200	<dminuoso>	phadej: Ah. Thanks for the question, so Im confident Im hoisting correctly https://gist.github.com/dminuoso/92c698fe5505711092ee6ecc93b021cc
2020-09-24 14:42:46 +0200	<dminuoso>	However, since you made me look, my assumption was wrong. Seems like I switched the wai middleware logger to not use my askLoggerIO provided logger after all.
2020-09-24 14:43:38 +0200	<phadej>	yes, askLoggerIO yet withStdoutLogger doesn't look right
2020-09-24 14:43:53 +0200	<dminuoso>	Should that matter though? I mean if they both just write chunks to stdout
2020-09-24 14:43:56 +0200	mirrorbird	(~psutcliff@2a00:801:44a:a00b:20c3:c64:eb15:73a2)
2020-09-24 14:44:02 +0200	<dminuoso>	The fact I see output at all suggests stdout gets flushed at some points
2020-09-24 14:44:30 +0200	<phadej>	dunno.
2020-09-24 14:44:49 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 14:45:14 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 14:45:18 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-24 14:50:49 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
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2020-09-24 14:52:44 +0200	<arianvp>	phadej: thanks. I was mostly confused about what these "constraint-set"s are
2020-09-24 14:52:46 +0200	<arianvp>	e.g. https://github.com/haskell-servant/servant-swagger/blob/master/cabal.haskell-ci
2020-09-24 14:52:49 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 14:52:52 +0200	DirefulSalt	(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
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2020-09-24 15:01:56 +0200	wjwh	(54f509f0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.84.245.9.240) ()
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2020-09-24 15:10:27 +0200	hackage	uusi 0.0.0.0 - A program removing all version constraints of dependencies in .cabal file https://hackage.haskell.org/package/uusi-0.0.0.0 (berberman)
2020-09-24 15:11:49 +0200	gmt	(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-09-24 15:25:19 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 15:26:11 +0200	mpereira	(~mpereira@2a02:810d:f40:d96:2193:1ad1:c4fb:4a0e)
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2020-09-24 15:26:42 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 15:26:56 +0200	v_m_v	(~vm_v@2a02:aa12:3200:6480:f507:71a:9334:3099)
2020-09-24 15:29:23 +0200	crobbins	(~crobbins@2601:2c1:380:ec40:bd12:f09f:f90e:c1af)
2020-09-24 15:30:13 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:30:53 +0200	B3d14mit3	(~root@175.157.60.38)
2020-09-24 15:31:09 +0200	<B3d14mit3>	HI
2020-09-24 15:31:12 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:31:19 +0200	<B3d14mit3>	Hello world!
2020-09-24 15:31:19 +0200	ruffianeo	(~ruffianeo@p200300e5271f093e83bdb6806dd36cfc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 15:31:32 +0200	oish	(~charlie@94.118.69.174) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:31:50 +0200	oish	(~charlie@94.118.69.174)
2020-09-24 15:32:02 +0200	Katarushisu	(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
2020-09-24 15:32:39 +0200	<B3d14mit3>	Hello again!
2020-09-24 15:33:18 +0200	Katarushisu	(~Katarushi@cpc149712-finc20-2-0-cust535.4-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-24 15:33:42 +0200	B3d14mit3	(~root@175.157.60.38) ()
2020-09-24 15:35:28 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 15:37:06 +0200	ystael	(~ystael@209.6.50.55) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-24 15:37:24 +0200	<Xnuk>	bye
2020-09-24 15:39:11 +0200	ahmr88	(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-24 15:39:48 +0200	ystael	(~ystael@209.6.50.55)
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2020-09-24 15:53:08 +0200	shad0w_	(~shad0w_@160.202.37.157)
2020-09-24 15:53:19 +0200	<shad0w_>	hi all.
2020-09-24 15:53:38 +0200	<shad0w_>	i am currently learning about Functors on my haskell quest
2020-09-24 15:53:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	as an exercise, i need to write the Functor for the data type
2020-09-24 15:54:01 +0200	<shad0w_>	`data ITree a = Leaf (Int -> a) \| Node [ITree a]`
2020-09-24 15:54:15 +0200	filwisher	(~filwisher@cpc76738-dals23-2-0-cust186.20-2.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-24 15:54:46 +0200	darjeeling_	(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:54:51 +0200	<shad0w_>	what i came up with was
2020-09-24 15:54:54 +0200	<shad0w_>	`
2020-09-24 15:54:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	instance Functor ITree where
2020-09-24 15:54:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	fmap g (Leaf f) = Leaf (g . f)
2020-09-24 15:54:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	fmap _ (Node []) = Node []
2020-09-24 15:54:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	fmap g (Node (x:xs)) = Node ([(fmap g x)] ++ [fmap g (Node xs)])
2020-09-24 15:54:58 +0200	<shad0w_>	`
2020-09-24 15:54:58 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: please pastebin :]
2020-09-24 15:55:15 +0200	darjeeling_	(~darjeelin@122.245.123.72)
2020-09-24 15:55:25 +0200	<shad0w_>	alright
2020-09-24 15:55:48 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 15:55:56 +0200	<[exa]>	anyway when it's already here, it looks pretty much okay, the question is why would you create a new Node for fmapping again if you already have stripped the "wrap" once?
2020-09-24 15:57:01 +0200	<[exa]>	(hint: recursing manually is sometimes just confusing, if you want to do the same action all over some kind of list, just use `map`)
2020-09-24 15:57:03 +0200	<shad0w_>	https://paste.ofcode.org/dxSxd9D9zkSqj86AvE6uXF
2020-09-24 15:57:14 +0200	irc_user	(uid423822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kkhmlwcffthfhnqd)
2020-09-24 15:57:34 +0200	<shad0w_>	it wouldn't pass the typechecker any other way i tried.
2020-09-24 15:58:02 +0200	<shad0w_>	this passed the type check but had me a little confused if it does what i think it does
2020-09-24 15:58:07 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: (about pastebins -- pasting more than ~2-3 lines to IRC is widely frowned upon, people here generally don't mind a lot but pastebinning is safer)
2020-09-24 15:58:13 +0200	Kaivo	(~Kaivo@104-200-86-99.mc.derytele.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-24 15:58:50 +0200	<shad0w_>	[exa]: i'll be mindfull of that, thanks. im new here. so my IRC ettiquites are a little (non-existant) lol
2020-09-24 15:59:36 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: anyway, try giving the compiler this line (instd of both your variants for Node:
2020-09-24 15:59:50 +0200	<[exa]>	fmap g (Node a) = Node $ map _ a
2020-09-24 16:00:25 +0200	<[exa]>	the _ should produce a "nice" error that tells you what type you need to smash in there
2020-09-24 16:00:49 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:00:51 +0200	Kaivo	(~Kaivo@ec2-15-222-231-32.ca-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2020-09-24 16:01:45 +0200	barzo	(~hd@95.70.181.226)
2020-09-24 16:02:06 +0200	<shad0w_>	[exa]: it says found a hole: _ :: ITree a -> ITree b
2020-09-24 16:02:28 +0200	hackage	signable-haskell-protoc 0.2 - Deterministic serialisation and signatures with proto-lens support https://hackage.haskell.org/package/signable-haskell-protoc-0.2 (coingaming)
2020-09-24 16:02:34 +0200	<shad0w_>	that should just be an (fmap g)
2020-09-24 16:02:55 +0200	barzo	(~hd@95.70.181.226) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 16:03:25 +0200	Sgeo	(~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net)
2020-09-24 16:03:57 +0200	hackage	signable 0.2 - Deterministic serialisation and signatures with proto-lens support https://hackage.haskell.org/package/signable-0.2 (coingaming)
2020-09-24 16:04:21 +0200	<shad0w_>	byorgey: that was a nice exercise. i needed to grind my brain gears on that one.
2020-09-24 16:05:52 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 16:06:26 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: yeah, that should work :]
2020-09-24 16:07:05 +0200	<shad0w_>	[exa]: Thanks for the help : )
2020-09-24 16:07:26 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: anyway, you can look at the whole construction now as "getting through layers" -- you strip and re-do the Leaf and Node "tags", then you use whatever is needed to get into/modify the inner type
2020-09-24 16:07:27 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 16:08:04 +0200	<[exa]>	onion approach works quite well for this kind of exercises, and when you don't know, just leave a _ .
2020-09-24 16:08:22 +0200	tzh	(~tzh@2601:448:c500:5300::82b3)
2020-09-24 16:08:55 +0200	<shad0w_>	getting fimiliar with the type signatures is what really helps me in the end
2020-09-24 16:08:59 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 16:09:15 +0200	<shad0w_>	okay i need to go from here -> here via this and this and then that
2020-09-24 16:09:32 +0200	<[exa]>	yeah there's a general approach to "just follow the types"
2020-09-24 16:09:51 +0200	<shad0w_>	but when a types get a little nested
2020-09-24 16:10:04 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@216-19-190-182.dyn.novuscom.net)
2020-09-24 16:10:05 +0200	<shad0w_>	it gets hard to keep it in my brain all at once
2020-09-24 16:10:10 +0200	<shad0w_>	for now.
2020-09-24 16:10:23 +0200	<tdammers>	the great thing about typed languages is that you don't have to
2020-09-24 16:10:27 +0200	<shad0w_>	i think it's something you get the hang of as you progress ?
2020-09-24 16:10:29 +0200	howdoi	(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pmfgngzmblrpwuzc)
2020-09-24 16:10:30 +0200	<tdammers>	(keep it all in your brain at once, that is)
2020-09-24 16:10:40 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:10:48 +0200	<tdammers>	this is the real reason why people spell out types all the time even when the compiler could infer them
2020-09-24 16:10:52 +0200	<tdammers>	it's just easier on the brain
2020-09-24 16:10:59 +0200	<shad0w_>	i did a lot js in a previous life
2020-09-24 16:11:04 +0200	<shad0w_>	don't i know that lol
2020-09-24 16:11:06 +0200	<tdammers>	dump that information in the code so that the compiler can keep track for you
2020-09-24 16:11:14 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 16:11:15 +0200	<[exa]>	helps a lot eg with writing monad instances and lenses for whatever
2020-09-24 16:11:30 +0200	<shad0w_>	i am yet to get to those
2020-09-24 16:12:13 +0200	<[exa]>	the second best thing on explicit types written everywhere is that the type errors don't escape
2020-09-24 16:12:19 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 16:12:22 +0200	<tdammers>	yup
2020-09-24 16:12:28 +0200	<[exa]>	but you need a larger program to truly appreciate that
2020-09-24 16:13:02 +0200	<tdammers>	yeah, if your code is still within the size limits of the average programmer brain, the benefit is marginal, but once you get past that point, it's super helpful
2020-09-24 16:13:05 +0200	<shad0w_>	tdammers: i did a exercism exercise in nim. the mentor reponse was, remove the conrete type from the function signature. the compiler can infer it anyway
2020-09-24 16:13:15 +0200	<shad0w_>	i was like:- no can do's ville, baby doll.
2020-09-24 16:13:20 +0200	<tdammers>	a bit like asserts on pre- and post-conditions in imperative code, just way more accurate
2020-09-24 16:13:25 +0200	nineonin_	(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:13:54 +0200	<tdammers>	well, I'm not familiar with nim, so I can't tell whether its type system is useful in the same way as Haskell's
2020-09-24 16:14:31 +0200	<shad0w_>	it has a type checker and infer-ness. but i don't think it's hinley milner or the likes
2020-09-24 16:15:12 +0200	<tdammers>	I mean, are the types expressive enough to add the kind of value that you can get out of Haskell's types
2020-09-24 16:15:28 +0200	<shad0w_>	no context on that lol
2020-09-24 16:15:29 +0200	<tdammers>	or is it more like int, bool, string, float, object, done?
2020-09-24 16:15:31 +0200	<shad0w_>	newbie in both
2020-09-24 16:15:35 +0200	<tdammers>	ah, fair enough
2020-09-24 16:15:48 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:16:00 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 16:16:57 +0200	<shad0w_>	it has macros too
2020-09-24 16:17:09 +0200	<shad0w_>	so i think you can do a fair bit of untyped stuff as well
2020-09-24 16:17:18 +0200	<shad0w_>	just never got around to doing that lol
2020-09-24 16:17:25 +0200	<tdammers>	macros don't have to bypass the type system
2020-09-24 16:17:37 +0200	<shad0w_>	haskell on the other hand. will probably wont let you do untyped stuff
2020-09-24 16:17:40 +0200	<tdammers>	Haskell has an untyped macro language (Template Haskell), but its output is stilly typed
2020-09-24 16:18:16 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2020-09-24 16:18:16 +0200	<shad0w_>	does haskell's FFI also have to be typed ?
2020-09-24 16:18:24 +0200	<shad0w_>	like if i interface a C lib
2020-09-24 16:18:31 +0200	nerdypepper	(nerdypeppe@152.67.160.69)
2020-09-24 16:18:39 +0200	<[exa]>	tdammers: you imply that average programmer brain has 25 lines? :D
2020-09-24 16:18:55 +0200	<tdammers>	[exa]: now that would be generous. it's really more like 7.
2020-09-24 16:19:12 +0200	<[exa]>	goooood
2020-09-24 16:19:55 +0200	<davve>	i struggle with 1 line sometimes
2020-09-24 16:20:01 +0200	geekosaur	(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-24 16:20:04 +0200	<tdammers>	shad0w_: then you are responsible for declaring appropriate types on the Haskell side. the compiler will slap you when the types are grossly incompatible, but things like whether a C procedure has side effects (and should thus be declared to return IO something on the Haskell side), that's up to you
2020-09-24 16:20:05 +0200	<davve>	(horrible metric)
2020-09-24 16:20:09 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: for FFI you need to provide some information on basically how to convert haskell types to C and back; some C types are mapped to normal haskell ones. Otherwise it just works (TM)
2020-09-24 16:20:20 +0200	<[exa]>	davve: how wide is your editor tho?
2020-09-24 16:20:28 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:20:49 +0200	<davve>	it automatically breaks at 120 I think
2020-09-24 16:20:52 +0200	<davve>	characters
2020-09-24 16:21:04 +0200	<shad0w_>	i see.
2020-09-24 16:21:06 +0200	<tdammers>	[exa]: if you have to ask what the maximum line length in vim is, then you're in trouble
2020-09-24 16:21:59 +0200	bitmapper	(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-grfphxmgfozlnroq) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-24 16:22:03 +0200	eric_	(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:51d1:5637:ed81:5491) ()
2020-09-24 16:22:47 +0200	<shad0w_>	uhm. one more thing guys
2020-09-24 16:22:49 +0200	<[exa]>	let's measure code in tweets instead, that's a metric you can rely on
2020-09-24 16:22:58 +0200	<tdammers>	not at all
2020-09-24 16:23:07 +0200	<shad0w_>	there seem to be 2 laws for Functors
2020-09-24 16:23:31 +0200	<shad0w_>	and you can basically write code that typechecks but still violates the laws
2020-09-24 16:23:33 +0200	<[exa]>	tdammers: except for the SI-breaking 320character change ofc.
2020-09-24 16:23:47 +0200	<tdammers>	well, that, but also images, videos, etc
2020-09-24 16:24:08 +0200	<shad0w_>	so my Q is, whenever writing a Functor instance. do we also have to explicitly check that it's satisfying those 2 laws everytime ?
2020-09-24 16:24:08 +0200	<tdammers>	you can also encode a lot of information in diacritics
2020-09-24 16:24:12 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 16:24:36 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: the laws are "standardized" so that you know what to expect from other people's functors. If you work with unlawful functors, stuff is likely to not work in unexpected weird ways
2020-09-24 16:24:42 +0200	W3BV1P3R	(~W3BV1P3R@c-73-5-91-226.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 16:25:03 +0200	<[exa]>	shad0w_: the usual problem with that is that the laws cannot be easily typechecked though
2020-09-24 16:25:29 +0200	<tdammers>	shad0w_: we don't have to; the compiler won't check your code for lawfulness, that's why they're laws, rather than typeclass methods. but it's very much recommended to obey those laws, because if your functor doesn't, then unexpected things can happen, such as things not being equal that should be
2020-09-24 16:25:31 +0200	<geekosaur>	there are languages where you must provide proofs of the laws; haskell is not one of them, because it's not powerful enough to test many of them
2020-09-24 16:25:42 +0200	oisdk	(~oisdk@2001:bb6:3329:d100:fd58:7633:8b1d:97)
2020-09-24 16:25:47 +0200	ryansmccoy	(~ryansmcco@193.37.254.27) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:26:12 +0200	<shad0w_>	[exa]: if i work with unlawful functors, stuff is likely to not work in unexpected weird ways? should'nt it be the opposite. like they will kindda glitch ?
2020-09-24 16:26:20 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 16:26:36 +0200	ryansmccoy	(~ryansmcco@193.37.254.27)
2020-09-24 16:26:37 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:27:08 +0200	<geekosaur>	huh? it's on you to provide lawful functors, other things will assume lawfulness and may break if yours isn't
2020-09-24 16:27:52 +0200	<tdammers>	it probably helps to look at some concrete unlawful functors
2020-09-24 16:27:55 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 16:27:56 +0200	<shad0w_>	geekosaur: i see. so ensure lawfulness if you can everytime ? got it.
2020-09-24 16:28:13 +0200	<tdammers>	ensure lawfulness; if you can't, don't write that functor instance
2020-09-24 16:28:13 +0200	<geekosaur>	yes.
2020-09-24 16:28:15 +0200	<shad0w_>	tdammers: i did. does weird stuff that will glitch at runtime
2020-09-24 16:28:59 +0200	<shad0w_>	gotch'a guys. thanks much.
2020-09-24 16:29:27 +0200	bitmapper	(uid464869@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwqmglpbkrhstmiw)
2020-09-24 16:29:28 +0200	<tdammers>	once you have a good intuition for the functor concept, judging the lawfulness of a functor instance becomes a lot easier
2020-09-24 16:29:50 +0200	<Cale>	All you have to check in Haskell is that fmap id = id
2020-09-24 16:30:01 +0200	<Cale>	Everything else gets enforced by parametricity
2020-09-24 16:30:18 +0200	DataComputist	(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-09-24 16:30:25 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:30:48 +0200	<shad0w_>	Cale: so if the id works. the second one (function composition) should also work ?
2020-09-24 16:30:54 +0200	Sanchayan	(~Sanchayan@171.76.101.244) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 16:31:31 +0200	<phadej>	gadts...
2020-09-24 16:31:49 +0200	polyphem	(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889)
2020-09-24 16:32:34 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:4ccc:a9c7:5cc7:b953) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-24 16:32:58 +0200	<phadej>	deriving (Functor) is the simplest
2020-09-24 16:33:01 +0200	<Orbstheorem>	Hello o/ I'm trying to write an lhs file in markdown, but GHC seems to try to interpret section headings somehow :/
2020-09-24 16:33:24 +0200	<Orbstheorem>	(i.g. `r"^#+.*"`)
2020-09-24 16:34:02 +0200	<phadej>	lhs files are latex by default
2020-09-24 16:34:34 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 16:35:15 +0200	<geekosaur>	or "bird tracks" (lines starting with "> " are documentation)
2020-09-24 16:35:25 +0200	<Orbstheorem>	I wrote my file using bird tracks.
2020-09-24 16:35:32 +0200	<Orbstheorem>	Oh: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/literate-markdown
2020-09-24 16:35:45 +0200	<phadej>	geekosaur: other way around
2020-09-24 16:35:53 +0200	<phadej>	bird tracks are code
2020-09-24 16:36:03 +0200	machinedgod	(~machinedg@45.78.189.122)
2020-09-24 16:37:38 +0200	<Cale>	shad0w_: yes
2020-09-24 16:37:59 +0200	<Cale>	@free (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2020-09-24 16:38:00 +0200	<lambdabot>	Try `free <ident>` or `free <ident> :: <type>`
2020-09-24 16:38:25 +0200	<Cale>	@free putativeFmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2020-09-24 16:38:25 +0200	<lambdabot>	Extra stuff at end of line
2020-09-24 16:38:40 +0200	<Cale>	hmm, I forget how to use this thing, lol
2020-09-24 16:38:43 +0200	<Cale>	@free fmap
2020-09-24 16:38:45 +0200	<lambdabot>	Extra stuff at end of line in retrieved type "Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b"
2020-09-24 16:38:49 +0200	<Cale>	weird
2020-09-24 16:40:35 +0200	<sm[m]>	"haskell's not relatively unpopular because it was late to add things like linear types. It's relatively unpopular because it doesn't care much about user experience. Consider: it's getting linear types before an efficient string type in `base`."
2020-09-24 16:41:10 +0200	<maerwald>	true
2020-09-24 16:41:12 +0200	oish	(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-24 16:41:16 +0200	<dolio>	I think you might need quantifiers.
2020-09-24 16:41:18 +0200	Guest74273	(~z0@bl17-248-65.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:41:53 +0200	<maerwald>	sm[m]: we tend to add esoteric stuff, but not care too much about technical deb
2020-09-24 16:41:53 +0200	henninb	(~henninb@63-226-191-96.mpls.qwest.net)
2020-09-24 16:41:55 +0200	<maerwald>	t
2020-09-24 16:42:16 +0200	<dminuoso>	sm[m]: I dont think it's the right characterization. I find it unlikely that the main thing that people drives away from Haskell is "String is inefficient".
2020-09-24 16:42:38 +0200	<int-e>	but why does it have to be in base... base is too big already
2020-09-24 16:43:09 +0200	jedws	(~jedws@2001:8003:337f:1b00:4ccc:a9c7:5cc7:b953)
2020-09-24 16:43:13 +0200	<Cale>	The thing that prevents Haskell from being popular is that it is very much unlike most other programming languages
2020-09-24 16:43:22 +0200	schiava_trav	(~luca@2001:b07:6463:cabb:a808:a7b7:a175:cb05)
2020-09-24 16:43:23 +0200	<geekosaur>	I thought @free didn't support typeclasses or something like that
2020-09-24 16:43:26 +0200	<sm[m]>	here's the full comment for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24570095
2020-09-24 16:43:38 +0200	<Cale>	geekosaur: ah, perhaps!
2020-09-24 16:43:39 +0200	<dolio>	It supports some now.
2020-09-24 16:43:41 +0200	<Cale>	@free map
2020-09-24 16:43:43 +0200	<lambdabot>	g . h = k . f => $map g . map h = map k . $map f
2020-09-24 16:43:48 +0200	schiava_trav	(~luca@2001:b07:6463:cabb:a808:a7b7:a175:cb05) ()
2020-09-24 16:43:50 +0200	<Cale>	Yeah, there we go
2020-09-24 16:43:59 +0200	<dolio>	But it wouldn't support functor, I think.
2020-09-24 16:44:00 +0200	henninb	(~henninb@63-226-191-96.mpls.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 16:44:02 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 16:44:12 +0200	<dolio>	Oh wait, I think I'm thinking of djinn.
2020-09-24 16:44:45 +0200	_vaibhavingale_	(~Adium@110.172.22.172) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:45:07 +0200	_vaibhavingale_	(~Adium@203.188.228.27)
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2020-09-24 16:45:27 +0200	DirefulSalt	(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 16:46:01 +0200	DirefulSalt	(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-09-24 16:46:13 +0200	<AWizzArd>	How efficiently can ghc compile this? setA a <> setB b <> ... <> setZ z $ defaultConfig
2020-09-24 16:46:27 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 16:46:38 +0200	<AWizzArd>	The end result will be setA a defaultConfig <> setB b defaultConfig <> ... <> setZ z defaultConfig
2020-09-24 16:46:50 +0200	<dminuoso>	AWizzArd: Hard to say in general.
2020-09-24 16:47:08 +0200	<AWizzArd>	ok
2020-09-24 16:47:20 +0200	<dolio>	It might figure it all out, but it seems like it's just asking for trouble.
2020-09-24 16:47:22 +0200	<dmwit>	How inefficient is it possible to get with something so simple?
2020-09-24 16:47:43 +0200	<int-e>	ghc inlines heavily so this can easily reduce to a single constructor application.
2020-09-24 16:48:28 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:48:44 +0200	<dminuoso>	AWizzArd: Also, for that concrete part, compile with -O2 and look at the core?
2020-09-24 16:48:55 +0200	<dminuoso>	Then you know exactly how GHC will compile it. ;)
2020-09-24 16:49:04 +0200	<dmwit>	The worst thing I can imagine the compiler doing has the same asymptotics as the best thing I can imagine it doing.
2020-09-24 16:49:23 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:50:18 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:50:19 +0200	<int-e>	Constructing a configuration... seems unlikely to be a hotspot in the code.
2020-09-24 16:50:59 +0200	<int-e>	If it were a hotspot... constant factors matter.
2020-09-24 16:51:20 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 16:51:38 +0200	<int-e>	(And we care. List fusion mostly does not affect asymptotics, but it makes a huge difference for constant factors.)
2020-09-24 16:51:38 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 16:52:42 +0200	<int-e>	(List fusion, ironically, also means that our inefficient String type can carry a lot of stuff efficiently enough... as long as strings are generated and consumed on the fly, not stored.)
2020-09-24 16:52:54 +0200	sQVe	(~sQVe@unaffiliated/sqve) (Quit: Bye!)
2020-09-24 16:53:49 +0200	<dolio>	Does text do fusion?
2020-09-24 16:54:05 +0200	<Taneb>	Yes, sometimes
2020-09-24 16:54:26 +0200	cfricke	(~cfricke@unaffiliated/cfricke) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
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2020-09-24 17:25:04 +0200	<AWizzArd>	Is there a way to register some kind of onSuccessfulServerStart hook that will allow me to print "Service started!" somewhere?
2020-09-24 17:25:23 +0200	jneira_	(~jneira@242.red-176-83-10.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)
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2020-09-24 17:31:31 +0200	<phadej>	using what? warp?
2020-09-24 17:32:03 +0200	<phadej>	there is e.g. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/warp-3.3.13/docs/Network-Wai-Handler-Warp.html#v:setBeforeMain…
2020-09-24 17:33:07 +0200	<AWizzArd>	phadej: looks good
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2020-09-24 17:44:52 +0200	<nihilazo>	hi, I'd like to compile some haskell software (and also maybe ghc itself, but that might be harder) for my aarch64 linux tablet. It doesn't have a native version of ghc currently available, is there a way to cross-compile haskell software/the compiler itself for aarch64?
2020-09-24 17:45:00 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 17:45:48 +0200	<glguy>	nihilazo: I don't know, but you might try #ghc as well
2020-09-24 17:47:03 +0200	<phadej>	there are ready bindists
2020-09-24 17:47:33 +0200	wroathe_	wroathe
2020-09-24 17:49:05 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 17:50:32 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 17:51:00 +0200	sedeki	(~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-09-24 17:51:07 +0200	<nihilazo>	ready bindlists?
2020-09-24 17:51:44 +0200	<phadej>	already compiled BINary DISTibutions
2020-09-24 17:51:49 +0200	<phadej>	https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/8.10.2/ has ghc-8.10.2-aarch64-deb10-linux.tar.xz
2020-09-24 17:51:54 +0200	<phadej>	e.g.
2020-09-24 17:52:23 +0200	<nihilazo>	ah, I guess the binaries are just not available as packages in my distro
2020-09-24 17:52:26 +0200	<nihilazo>	thanks
2020-09-24 17:52:38 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 17:53:09 +0200	<phadej>	where deb10 tells which versions of system packages its compiled against (e.g. ncurses/libtinfo/...)
2020-09-24 17:53:43 +0200	<nihilazo>	ok, I'm on arch linux arm (I know that haskell people seem to hate arch, but it is the best of the distros available for my device)
2020-09-24 17:54:01 +0200	<nihilazo>	I'll try the bindists
2020-09-24 17:54:22 +0200	kritzefitz	(~kritzefit@fw-front.credativ.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-24 17:56:56 +0200	<dolio>	People used to recommend arch as the best for Haskell, but then arch did something that causes a huge amount of problems with the system packages.
2020-09-24 17:57:25 +0200	<maerwald>	when did ppl do that
2020-09-24 17:57:37 +0200	<dolio>	Several years ago.
2020-09-24 17:59:51 +0200	<perdent>	Anyone here a cryptographer or good with cryptography/maths?
2020-09-24 18:00:42 +0200	<phadej>	perdent: would you trust me if I say yes?
2020-09-24 18:00:56 +0200	macerbi[m]	(macerbimat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gfhtbumzzmodsfmn) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-09-24 18:01:29 +0200	<perdent>	phadej: don't need trust when i can test you :)
2020-09-24 18:02:04 +0200	Saten-san	(~Saten-san@ip-213-49-123-19.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-09-24 18:02:18 +0200	<phadej>	are you looking for a person to employ?
2020-09-24 18:02:38 +0200	<phadej>	I don't feel like having tests now ->
2020-09-24 18:03:24 +0200	<noctux>	hmm, wasn't that shipping dynamic systems libraries for haskell exclusively?
2020-09-24 18:03:48 +0200	iffsid	(iffsidmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-odmjnipjixukkumy) (Quit: Idle for 30+ days)
2020-09-24 18:04:24 +0200	<dolio>	Not always.
2020-09-24 18:04:36 +0200	Hatsue[m]	(berbermanm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jedikmhqbmeklcae) ("Kicked by @appservice-irc:matrix.org : Idle for 30+ days")
2020-09-24 18:04:36 +0200	<dolio>	GHC didn't always have dynamic linking for Haskell libraries.
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2020-09-24 18:18:21 +0200	<AWizzArd>	I just wanted to ask if anyone here has experience with using Gitlab as build server (ci/cd) and then realized that GHC itself is using it. This should hopefuly mean that less complex projects than GHC will also run fine with it.
2020-09-24 18:18:29 +0200	Cale	(~cale@CPEf48e38ee8583-CM0c473de9d680.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2020-09-24 18:19:28 +0200	kenran	(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-24 18:20:18 +0200	<maerwald>	AWizzArd: maintaining gitlab isn't fun
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2020-09-24 19:03:06 +0200	fendor_	(~fendor@178.165.129.251.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
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2020-09-24 19:03:41 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 19:03:46 +0200	Stanley00	(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-09-24 19:03:59 +0200	thecoffemaker	(~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker)
2020-09-24 19:05:08 +0200	nineonine	(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-09-24 19:05:15 +0200	brewmarche	(~brewmarch@aftr-62-216-202-59.dynamic.mnet-online.de) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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2020-09-24 19:08:30 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2020-09-24 19:09:28 +0200	dale	(dale@unaffiliated/dale)
2020-09-24 19:09:33 +0200	cosimone	(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6) (Quit: Quit.)
2020-09-24 19:10:00 +0200	John20	(~John@82.46.59.122)
2020-09-24 19:11:11 +0200	spew	(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-waxyqwwasdbxecct)
2020-09-24 19:13:23 +0200	machinedgod	(~machinedg@45.78.189.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:14:13 +0200	<AWizzArd>	maerwald: your alternative?
2020-09-24 19:14:39 +0200	<maerwald>	AWizzArd: gitea, but I don't do CI there
2020-09-24 19:14:48 +0200	geekosaur	(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-24 19:14:49 +0200	<maerwald>	it has some integration, but I don't know how good
2020-09-24 19:15:25 +0200	<AWizzArd>	maerwald: I am using gitea right now. Plus Jenkins.
2020-09-24 19:15:51 +0200	<AWizzArd>	I miss commenting commits and would like to have integrated ci.
2020-09-24 19:15:52 +0200	nullheroes	(~danielvu@168.235.66.22)
2020-09-24 19:17:18 +0200	coot	(~coot@37.30.51.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2020-09-24 19:18:06 +0200	fendor_	(~fendor@178.165.129.251.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-09-24 19:18:47 +0200	mu	(~textual@c-98-207-49-75.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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2020-09-24 19:18:51 +0200	mu	(~textual@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 19:19:00 +0200	jneira_	(~jneira@80.30.101.206)
2020-09-24 19:19:12 +0200	fendor_	(~fendor@178.165.129.251.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 19:22:48 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
2020-09-24 19:22:57 +0200	filwisher	(~filwisher@cpc76738-dals23-2-0-cust186.20-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:23:31 +0200	<maerwald>	I miss Software not pissing me off
2020-09-24 19:24:11 +0200	<geekosaur>	that happened at some point?
2020-09-24 19:24:34 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 19:24:45 +0200	elliott_	(~elliott_@pool-100-36-54-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-24 19:25:04 +0200	<maerwald>	you missed it...
2020-09-24 19:25:54 +0200	<sm[m]>	That is a feature more software should prioritise
2020-09-24 19:25:57 +0200	hackage	rpmbuild-order 0.4.3.1 - Order RPM packages by dependencies https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rpmbuild-order-0.4.3.1 (JensPetersen)
2020-09-24 19:26:17 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 19:26:31 +0200	knupfer	(~Thunderbi@200116b824801400903070b59b2b0fab.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-24 19:26:32 +0200	kori	(~kori@2804:14c:85a3:9105::1000)
2020-09-24 19:26:32 +0200	kori	(~kori@2804:14c:85a3:9105::1000) (Changing host)
2020-09-24 19:26:32 +0200	kori	(~kori@arrowheads/kori)
2020-09-24 19:27:36 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:28:26 +0200	juuandyy	(~juuandyy@90.166.144.65)
2020-09-24 19:28:27 +0200	mu	(~textual@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 19:28:32 +0200	merijn	(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-24 19:29:27 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:30:13 +0200	<maerwald>	sm[m]: I believe it was better 20 years ago. It just had less features
2020-09-24 19:31:30 +0200	cosimone	(~cosimone@2001:b07:ae5:db26:b248:7aff:feea:34b6)
2020-09-24 19:31:54 +0200	quinn	(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:32:51 +0200	quinn	(~quinn@c-73-223-224-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 19:34:17 +0200	mmohammadi9812	(~mmohammad@188.210.98.27) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:34:22 +0200	mu	(~textual@c-98-207-49-75.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-24 19:34:44 +0200	mu	(~textual@c-98-207-49-75.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Changing host)
2020-09-24 19:34:44 +0200	mu	(~textual@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 19:35:04 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 19:36:00 +0200	<sm[m]>	I remember a lot of swearing at broken joysticks and unreliable tape drives. Strangely the software doesn't stand out, maybe you're right
2020-09-24 19:36:21 +0200	<sm[m]>	limited well defined scope
2020-09-24 19:37:06 +0200	<sm[m]>	and very simple dependencies at all times
2020-09-24 19:37:29 +0200	<geekosaur>	I kept running into software that didn't do what it was supposed to, starting with a crashing bug in my first computer (granting it was an uncommon machine)
2020-09-24 19:37:43 +0200	<geekosaur>	guess I always had the wrong software/hardware
2020-09-24 19:37:58 +0200	GyroW_	(~GyroW@ptr-48ujrfb8c7gfd2lu92q.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be)
2020-09-24 19:38:12 +0200	justsomeguy	(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2020-09-24 19:38:19 +0200	<sm[m]>	I'm sure you're more on the mark, I've just forgotten
2020-09-24 19:38:19 +0200	mu	(~textual@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 19:38:40 +0200	GyroW	(~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:38:49 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 19:39:32 +0200	<sm[m]>	Sinclair computers used to crash when you wobbled the ram pack
2020-09-24 19:39:32 +0200	<davean>	I remember a lot of limits, but rarely anger inducing things. One bug stands out strongly, and that was with RPM package management ...
2020-09-24 19:39:58 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-09-24 19:43:23 +0200	coot	(~coot@37.30.51.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
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2020-09-24 19:48:26 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 19:48:48 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 19:49:10 +0200	catkiki	(~kiki@m90-134-157-227.cust.tele2.hr)
2020-09-24 19:49:34 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 19:51:12 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 19:53:00 +0200	acidjnk_new2	(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7237863349b0df7f7aa9c44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 19:56:08 +0200	mmohammadi9812	(~mmohammad@188.210.98.27)
2020-09-24 19:56:47 +0200	m2k	(~markholme@cpe-76-90-112-105.socal.res.rr.com)
2020-09-24 19:56:51 +0200	<AWizzArd>	How can I see with cabal the exact version of my dependencies?
2020-09-24 19:57:31 +0200	m2k	markh
2020-09-24 19:57:39 +0200	ahri	(~ahri@178.209.40.84) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-09-24 19:57:57 +0200	ahri	(~ahri@178.209.40.84)
2020-09-24 19:58:10 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 19:58:42 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 19:58:51 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 19:59:15 +0200	<sclv>	AWizzArd: `cabal freeze` will generate a freeze file with exact versions
2020-09-24 19:59:36 +0200	<sclv>	you can then delete the file or move it to prevent it from "locking in" those deps to future runs
2020-09-24 20:00:01 +0200	ButterflyOfFire	(~Butterfly@217.146.82.202) ()
2020-09-24 20:00:52 +0200	<AWizzArd>	sclv: that looks good. The output file that you expect is named `cabal.config` yes?
2020-09-24 20:03:53 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 20:04:38 +0200	<sclv>	with recent cabal the file is cabal.project.freeze
2020-09-24 20:04:49 +0200	<sclv>	with cabal version 2 its something else
2020-09-24 20:05:33 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-24 20:07:05 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 20:07:26 +0200	<AWizzArd>	sclv: thx!
2020-09-24 20:07:55 +0200	Zeb60	(3ed8d095@aftr-62-216-208-149.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
2020-09-24 20:08:19 +0200	markh	(~markholme@cpe-76-90-112-105.socal.res.rr.com) ("ok bye")
2020-09-24 20:08:19 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 20:08:49 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 20:10:53 +0200	juuandyy	(~juuandyy@90.166.144.65) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 20:10:56 +0200	zacts	(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-24 20:11:11 +0200	dyeplexer	(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 20:12:21 +0200	p0a	(~user@unaffiliated/p0a)
2020-09-24 20:12:29 +0200	<p0a>	Hello what is wrong with "fmap (-3) (Just 2)" ?
2020-09-24 20:12:35 +0200	<p0a>	I was expecting Just -1
2020-09-24 20:13:11 +0200	<geekosaur>	haskell oddity with negative numbers
2020-09-24 20:13:29 +0200	vfaronov	(~vfaronov@broadband-95-84-210-78.ip.moscow.rt.ru)
2020-09-24 20:13:48 +0200	<p0a>	Oh whoops, thank you I just realized it
2020-09-24 20:14:08 +0200	vfaronov	(~vfaronov@broadband-95-84-210-78.ip.moscow.rt.ru) (Client Quit)
2020-09-24 20:14:15 +0200	<geekosaur>	the Prelude offers "subtract" as a workaround: fmap (subtract 3) (Just 2)
2020-09-24 20:14:32 +0200	<p0a>	What is the other way to write fmap?
2020-09-24 20:14:53 +0200	<p0a>	I wanted to negate, so I'll just negate :)
2020-09-24 20:15:20 +0200	<p0a>	but in fact negate is not defined so I'll use (-1)* for matrices
2020-09-24 20:18:45 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 20:18:57 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 20:20:36 +0200	m4v1	(~m4v@185.204.1.185)
2020-09-24 20:23:48 +0200	raichoo	(~raichoo@213.240.178.58) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-24 20:24:06 +0200	<monochrom>	I think "fmap ((-1) *)" does it?
2020-09-24 20:24:57 +0200	barzo	(~barzo@95.70.181.226)
2020-09-24 20:25:02 +0200	<monochrom>	"the other way to write fmap" maybe you have infix <$> in mind?
2020-09-24 20:25:08 +0200	<nshepperd>	why isn't negate defined for you matrices
2020-09-24 20:25:35 +0200	<merijn>	Presumably they're not Num instances?
2020-09-24 20:25:48 +0200	<p0a>	nshepperd: I'm using hmatrix and it doesn't have it
2020-09-24 20:26:05 +0200	<p0a>	but I can use ((-1)*) yeah. Thanks, <$> was what I had in mind
2020-09-24 20:27:15 +0200	<nshepperd>	you sure? the source code on hackage seems to have negate = liftMatrix negate which is pretty much what you'd expect
2020-09-24 20:27:21 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 20:28:01 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 20:28:18 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 20:28:56 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 20:29:27 +0200	<p0a>	You may be right nshepperd I can't locate it myself, under which name?
2020-09-24 20:31:59 +0200	justsomeguy	(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) ()
2020-09-24 20:32:04 +0200	aarvar	(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
2020-09-24 20:32:16 +0200	<nshepperd>	http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmatrix-0.20.0.0/docs/src/Numeric.Matrix.html#line-48
2020-09-24 20:32:16 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-24 20:33:46 +0200	<p0a>	I can't get it to work
2020-09-24 20:34:55 +0200	<p0a>	When I try `negate (2><2)[1,2,3,4]' I get the error No instance for (Num ([Double] -> Matrix Double)) arising from use of 'it'
2020-09-24 20:36:14 +0200	<nshepperd>	that's because it's parsing it like '(negate (2><2)) [1,2,3,4]'
2020-09-24 20:36:58 +0200	<p0a>	oooh thank you
2020-09-24 20:37:06 +0200	shad0w_	(~shad0w_@160.202.37.157) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-24 20:47:07 +0200	bahamas	(~lucian@188.24.181.166) (Changing host)
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2020-09-24 20:47:16 +0200	takuan	(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be)
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2020-09-24 20:50:19 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
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2020-09-24 20:57:06 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
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2020-09-24 20:58:07 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-24 20:58:24 +0200	ma489	(~textual@2604:2000:1742:c1df:d118:ce3:2cc:fdf9)
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2020-09-24 20:58:49 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
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2020-09-24 20:59:23 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 20:59:30 +0200	LKoen	(~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-24 20:59:33 +0200	Guest_74	(0597167b@5.151.22.123)
2020-09-24 20:59:53 +0200	Guest_74	(0597167b@5.151.22.123) ()
2020-09-24 21:01:24 +0200	hiroaki	(~hiroaki@ip4d176049.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2020-09-24 21:04:37 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 21:04:53 +0200	Stanley00	(~stanley00@unaffiliated/stanley00)
2020-09-24 21:06:06 +0200	macrover	(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-24 21:07:27 +0200	hackage	stm-actor 0.2.2.0 - A simplistic actor model based on STM https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm-actor-0.2.2.0 (sgschlesinger)
2020-09-24 21:07:40 +0200	geekosaur	(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
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2020-09-24 21:14:40 +0200	<Cheery>	Can someone look in a bit and tell me if Ihave understood push/enter model correct? https://gist.github.com/cheery/685e28e2cd969451b0bde42ce801d269
2020-09-24 21:14:53 +0200	John20	(~John@82.46.59.122)
2020-09-24 21:15:06 +0200	kenran	(~maier@i59F67B8B.versanet.de)
2020-09-24 21:17:15 +0200	<Cheery>	The another thing I'd like to understand is the thunk update in STG. I wonder if they could be represented here through ST or IORefs.
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2020-09-24 21:23:27 +0200	<koz_>	Cheery: Push-enter essentially behaves like Forth I think?
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2020-09-24 21:30:44 +0200	<dolio>	I don't know if that representation is going to be able to really illustrate the difference between push/enter and eval/apply.
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2020-09-24 21:37:25 +0200	<dminuoso>	Cheery: Did you read `How to make a fast curry: push/enter vs eval/apply` maybe? The introduction alone gives a very succint and accurate description.
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2020-09-24 21:39:29 +0200	<koz_>	dminuoso: Is that the paper that basically says 'don't use push/enter'?
2020-09-24 21:40:01 +0200	danvet_	(~Daniel@2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 21:40:33 +0200	<Cheery>	I'm a bit confused because I thought STG is still doing push/enter ?
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2020-09-24 21:53:23 +0200	<Cheery>	koz_: I did scan the paper through.. It's saying the choice there is distraction for a compiler, but doesn't say anything about interpreters.
2020-09-24 21:53:56 +0200	<Cheery>	hm.. Maybe I should look into the rpython stg implementation and see if it's correctly built.
2020-09-24 21:54:16 +0200	<Cheery>	https://github.com/cgswords/laurens
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2020-09-24 22:00:04 +0200	<Cheery>	but that's harder to look through though. I think the hard thing is the thunk updates.
2020-09-24 22:00:16 +0200	inkbottle	(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-115-202.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr)
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2020-09-24 22:02:04 +0200	<Cheery>	It can be I overlook something.. The only place where a thunk is 'entered' is when it's dereferenced.
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2020-09-24 22:04:24 +0200	<dminuoso>	Cheery: The STG stack contains arguments and continuations.
2020-09-24 22:04:37 +0200	<dminuoso>	On GHC's implementation, anyhow.
2020-09-24 22:04:39 +0200	ahri	(~ahri@178.209.40.84)
2020-09-24 22:04:56 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
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2020-09-24 22:05:28 +0200	hackage	Z-IO 0.1.1.0 - Simple and high performance IO toolkit for Haskell https://hackage.haskell.org/package/Z-IO-0.1.1.0 (winterland)
2020-09-24 22:05:54 +0200	<dminuoso>	For a better comparison, you can dive into ministg which provides both evaluation models
2020-09-24 22:06:07 +0200	<dminuoso>	https://hackage.haskell.org/package/ministg
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2020-09-24 22:08:33 +0200	<Cheery>	oh so it doesn't change the STG, but there are two sets of operational semantics.
2020-09-24 22:08:57 +0200	<Cheery>	sets of rules*
2020-09-24 22:08:58 +0200	<dolio>	It doesn't change it much.
2020-09-24 22:09:23 +0200	<dolio>	And it has a lot more influence on levels below STG.
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2020-09-24 22:39:27 +0200	<koz_>	Cheery: For interpreters, yeah, question is trickier.
2020-09-24 22:39:34 +0200	<koz_>	I'd have to re-read the paper to be sure.
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2020-09-24 22:41:56 +0200	<dolio>	You don't have to.
2020-09-24 22:42:07 +0200	<dolio>	You should do what they did in the paper, build both and test which is better.
2020-09-24 22:42:27 +0200	<koz_>	dolio: I'd at least like to remind myself of their conclusions and why.
2020-09-24 22:42:45 +0200	<koz_>	Not saying it's equivalent to testing and measuring, but I'm curious what they found was holding push/enter back.
2020-09-24 22:42:48 +0200	<koz_>	(since I can't remember)
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2020-09-24 22:45:45 +0200	<dolio>	The paper says it's impossible to tell which is better just by thinking about it. You need to actually test which is better.
2020-09-24 22:46:12 +0200	barzo	(~sosal@95.70.181.226)
2020-09-24 22:46:14 +0200	gxt	(~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt)
2020-09-24 22:46:36 +0200	<Cheery>	yeah. I think pypy community might have done this to you already.
2020-09-24 22:46:40 +0200	<koz_>	dolio: Thanks for the reminder.
2020-09-24 22:47:42 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
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2020-09-24 22:51:22 +0200	<dolio>	I'm not sure it's really going to make a lot of sense to implement push/enter in an interpreter in the way it actually shows up in that paper, though.
2020-09-24 22:51:25 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 22:51:53 +0200	<dolio>	Where each function has its own separate generated code that examines the stack for arguments.
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2020-09-24 22:53:09 +0200	<Cheery>	yay.. I found a paper.
2020-09-24 22:53:11 +0200	<Cheery>	Trace-based just-in-time compiler for Haskell with RPython
2020-09-24 22:53:56 +0200	<Cheery>	it says they weren't able to beat GHC with that though.
2020-09-24 22:54:30 +0200	barzo	(~sosal@95.70.181.226)
2020-09-24 22:54:48 +0200	adamwespiser	(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 22:56:18 +0200	<Cheery>	about hundred times slower than ghc with -O2
2020-09-24 22:56:32 +0200	<koz_>	Cheery: Link to said paper?
2020-09-24 22:56:40 +0200	<Cheery>	https://ntnuopen.ntnu.no/ntnu-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/253137/618488_FULLTEXT01.pdf?sequence=1
2020-09-24 22:57:03 +0200	<dolio>	There's at least one sub-optimal case if you really implement some of what it says. Like, applying a PAp might dump all its stored arguments to the stack, then just copy them back to build a new PAp if it's still under-applied.
2020-09-24 22:57:11 +0200	thir	(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-24 22:57:18 +0200	<dolio>	But I'm not sure how much that case matters.
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2020-09-24 23:05:48 +0200	bennofs	(~quassel@dslb-094-222-058-240.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:06:19 +0200	jneira	(501e65ce@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.80.30.101.206)
2020-09-24 23:07:02 +0200	hyperisco	(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:08:17 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 23:09:18 +0200	<Rembane>	cabal install has two groups of commands that seem awfully similar too each other, are the v2-* and new-* aliases to each other?
2020-09-24 23:09:32 +0200	<dolio>	Yes.
2020-09-24 23:09:44 +0200	<Rembane>	Good. And confusing.
2020-09-24 23:09:49 +0200	<Rembane>	Thank you.
2020-09-24 23:09:57 +0200	chaosmasttter	(~chaosmast@p200300c4a714f101b8e97b5389efff25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-24 23:10:44 +0200	ubert	(~Thunderbi@91.141.2.79.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-09-24 23:10:50 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:10:56 +0200	<merijn>	Rembane: new- is from when they where in development and not actually intended to be used by anyone but brave souls
2020-09-24 23:11:19 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:12:04 +0200	coot	(~coot@37.30.51.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-09-24 23:12:48 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:13:50 +0200	<Rembane>	merijn: Got it. Those were the days... or something...
2020-09-24 23:14:02 +0200	knupfer	(~Thunderbi@200116b824801400903070b59b2b0fab.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:14:47 +0200	falafel	(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:14:59 +0200	ubert	(~Thunderbi@91.141.2.79.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:17:14 +0200	mud	(~mud@unaffiliated/kadoban)
2020-09-24 23:18:46 +0200	sheepfleece	(~sheep@46.53.249.142)
2020-09-24 23:20:49 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:21:11 +0200	rekahsoft	(~rekahsoft@CPE0008a20f982f-CM64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
2020-09-24 23:21:19 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:21:58 +0200	hyperisco	(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net)
2020-09-24 23:23:15 +0200	xff0x	(~fox@2001:1a81:5294:e900:56b:8a80:2830:a482) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:23:45 +0200	xff0x	(~fox@2001:1a81:5294:e900:d5f1:7d15:a4ef:52f8)
2020-09-24 23:24:18 +0200	<merijn>	Rembane: It worked well enough for me to switch :p
2020-09-24 23:25:36 +0200	rekahsoft	(~rekahsoft@CPE0008a20f982f-CM64777d666260.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:25:43 +0200	takuan	(~takuan@178-116-218-225.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:26:13 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 23:28:34 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 23:30:44 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:30:58 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:31:25 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:33:01 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:33:04 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:33:10 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:34:56 +0200	Kaivo	(~Kaivo@ec2-15-222-231-32.ca-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:35:43 +0200	olligobber	(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2020-09-24 23:37:19 +0200	Kaivo	(~Kaivo@104-200-86-99.mc.derytele.com)
2020-09-24 23:38:49 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 23:40:54 +0200	mu__	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:41:19 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:42:13 +0200	wroathe	(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:43:38 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:45:26 +0200	falafel	(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a)
2020-09-24 23:45:30 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no)
2020-09-24 23:45:35 +0200	Dolly	(585fd1fd@ti0203q160-5312.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-24 23:49:05 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-24 23:51:05 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-24 23:51:19 +0200	mu	(~mu@unaffiliated/mu)
2020-09-24 23:52:43 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23)
2020-09-24 23:52:57 +0200	hackage	th-test-utils 1.1.0 - Utility functions for testing Template Haskell code https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-test-utils-1.1.0 (leapyear)
2020-09-24 23:53:46 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:56:24 +0200	hyperisco	(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:57:34 +0200	snakemasterflex	(~snakemast@213.100.206.23) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-24 23:59:14 +0200	heatsink	(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)