IRCBrowse

2020/09/22

2020-09-22 00:00:49 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108)
2020-09-22 00:03:04 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-22 00:04:13 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a702130181d7af909c24ca2e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-22 00:09:50 +0200 <Bill--Door> That's a cool puzzle, and indeed more CS-y than a lot of PE ones
2020-09-22 00:09:55 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Excess Flood)
2020-09-22 00:11:20 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
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2020-09-22 01:09:25 +0200kayvan```(~user@52-119-115-243.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1)")
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2020-09-22 01:09:50 +0200tzh(~tzh@2601:448:c500:5300::82b3)
2020-09-22 01:11:22 +0200 <remexre> is it possible to depend on pandoc as a library at the moment? I'm getting https://github.com/haskell-infra/hackage-trustees/issues/280, I think, but this is fixed, if I understand the comments
2020-09-22 01:15:47 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2020-09-22 01:22:58 +0200ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-22 01:23:02 +0200 <dolio> The hackage page for text-conversions has bounds on base16-bytestring now, yes.
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2020-09-22 01:27:00 +0200 <yushyin> Good
2020-09-22 01:27:24 +0200s00pcan(~chris@075-133-056-178.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 01:28:30 +0200Bill--Door(550112fd@253.18.1.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-22 01:32:40 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-22 01:32:54 +0200 <remexre> oh wait, I probably need to `cabal update`, I'm guessing
2020-09-22 01:32:57 +0200 <dolio> You can assist the solver with command line flags in situations like that before it's fixed, too. --constraint='...' or something like that.
2020-09-22 01:33:07 +0200ahmr88(~ahmr88@cpc85006-haye22-2-0-cust131.17-4.cable.virginm.net)
2020-09-22 01:33:12 +0200 <dolio> Yeah, you need to update the cached information.
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2020-09-22 01:34:41 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:f82a:5e5e:a65a:42ad) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-22 01:35:00 +0200flex14(~flex14@2601:280:c780:7ea0:d233:9ddf:c010:c113)
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2020-09-22 01:35:43 +0200 <remexre> ok looks like that worked (well, got past text-conversions at least; not finished building)
2020-09-22 01:40:26 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.219.58)
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2020-09-22 02:00:01 +0200Kampala(~Kampala@84.39.117.57) ()
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2020-09-22 02:39:39 +0200olligobber(olligobber@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/olligobber)
2020-09-22 02:40:44 +0200 <Axman6> bloody hell, people give GHC crap for its error messages, but Scala's are just amazingly awful. I feel like I need a monitor 6 feet wide to read the,
2020-09-22 02:40:46 +0200 <Axman6> m*
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2020-09-22 03:04:17 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-22 03:04:36 +0200 <pacak> Axman6: somethnig-something C++
2020-09-22 03:06:38 +0200inkbottle(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-101-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-22 03:07:03 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-22 03:07:35 +0200 <koz_> pacak: Yes, the platinum standard for incomprehensible error drivel.
2020-09-22 03:08:01 +0200 <pacak> File contents: "#include __FILE\np;", ~20k lines of error messages when compiled with g++.
2020-09-22 03:08:09 +0200plutoniix(~q@175.176.222.7)
2020-09-22 03:08:15 +0200 <pacak> ghc error messages can be cryptic when you don't know what is it trying to tell you.
2020-09-22 03:08:35 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-112-47.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 03:10:11 +0200monad(43aa4b1c@c-67-170-75-28.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 03:10:35 +0200monadGuest3651
2020-09-22 03:11:25 +0200puffnfresh_(~puffnfres@45.76.124.5) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 03:12:00 +0200 <Guest3651> Hey all. Just started to learn Haskell a few months ago, and its been great. I have a shallow understanding of monad transformers, and am looking to get a deeper one. What are some good tutorials/articles/books that I can read to learn more about monad transformers? Thanks!
2020-09-22 03:12:53 +0200BIG_JIMMY_D(~jim@108.61.185.76) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 03:13:02 +0200elcaro(~anonymous@45.32.191.75) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 03:13:17 +0200 <pacak> Do you understand monads and type classes?
2020-09-22 03:13:24 +0200 <Guest3651> Yep.
2020-09-22 03:14:00 +0200 <pacak> I'd try to implement some boring monad transformers then.
2020-09-22 03:14:07 +0200 <pacak> Like ReaderT
2020-09-22 03:14:25 +0200 <pacak> :t lift
2020-09-22 03:14:27 +0200 <lambdabot> (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a
2020-09-22 03:14:33 +0200 <pacak> ^ it's all here
2020-09-22 03:14:46 +0200 <Guest3651> ?
2020-09-22 03:15:07 +0200markh(~markholme@cpe-76-90-112-105.socal.res.rr.com)
2020-09-22 03:15:13 +0200 <pacak> There's not much magic in monad transformers. It's just a typeclass with some instances.
2020-09-22 03:16:30 +0200ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 03:16:59 +0200 <Guest3651> Ok... I'll try implementing ReaderT. Thanks (y)
2020-09-22 03:17:19 +0200ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168)
2020-09-22 03:17:24 +0200puffnfresh_(~puffnfres@45.76.124.5)
2020-09-22 03:17:38 +0200 <koz_> Also, Guest3651 - read the Typeclassopedia, because I think it has a good entry on monad transformers.
2020-09-22 03:17:49 +0200 <Guest3651> Okay
2020-09-22 03:18:14 +0200 <sm[m]> Guest3651: also you might enjoy http://jxv.io/blog/2018-02-28-A-Game-in-Haskell.html which includes a little practical discussion
2020-09-22 03:18:53 +0200BIG_JIMMY_D(~jim@108.61.185.76)
2020-09-22 03:19:11 +0200loller(uid358106@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yoghdfehqhptefbb)
2020-09-22 03:19:30 +0200 <Guest3651> I'll take a look at it
2020-09-22 03:20:42 +0200elcaro(~anonymous@45.32.191.75)
2020-09-22 03:21:59 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-22 03:22:48 +0200pera(~pera@unaffiliated/pera) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 03:30:25 +0200 <Xnuk> Are there some practical cases using Reader(T) / Writer(T) over State(T)?
2020-09-22 03:31:38 +0200 <pacak> Reader(T) is better at at showing intent that whatever you are passing is not going to change.
2020-09-22 03:31:44 +0200 <pacak> Like passing configuration
2020-09-22 03:32:23 +0200 <Axman6> I don't think I've ever written an app that made use of StateT. ReaderT all the time though
2020-09-22 03:32:32 +0200markh(~markholme@cpe-76-90-112-105.socal.res.rr.com) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
2020-09-22 03:32:57 +0200 <pacak> % git grep StateT | wc -l
2020-09-22 03:32:57 +0200 <pacak> 26
2020-09-22 03:32:57 +0200 <yahb> pacak: ; <interactive>:105:24: error: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
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2020-09-22 03:38:53 +0200macrover(~macrover@ip70-189-231-35.lv.lv.cox.net)
2020-09-22 03:42:04 +0200 <Xnuk> Is it quite different between `ReaderT Config IO a` and `Config -> IO a` ?
2020-09-22 03:42:13 +0200 <Xnuk> I guess yes
2020-09-22 03:42:15 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-22 03:44:46 +0200 <Xnuk> But the restriction unable to edit `Config` makes me feel useless for me
2020-09-22 03:44:59 +0200flex14(~flex14@2601:280:c780:7ea0:d233:9ddf:c010:c113)
2020-09-22 03:45:09 +0200 <pacak> There is. In one case you have to pass Config manually all over the place and it can be changed, in case of reader - it gets passed automatically and is immutable.
2020-09-22 03:46:02 +0200 <pacak> What kind of editing do you have in mind?
2020-09-22 03:47:18 +0200 <Xnuk> the editing means like `modify :: (s -> s) -> StateT s m ()`
2020-09-22 03:47:19 +0200inkbottle(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-101-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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2020-09-22 03:47:40 +0200inkbottle(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-101-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-22 03:47:57 +0200MarcelineVQ(~anja@198.254.202.72)
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2020-09-22 03:49:22 +0200 <pacak> Right. What kind of changes?
2020-09-22 03:50:00 +0200puffnfresh_(~puffnfres@45.76.124.5)
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2020-09-22 03:50:46 +0200 <Axman6> Xnuk: what config would need changing? config is gatherted at startup. things that change over time are application state
2020-09-22 03:51:23 +0200BIG_JIMMY_D(~jim@108.61.185.76)
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2020-09-22 03:52:15 +0200 <Axman6> and state is usually a bad thing :) particularly if you are working with a multithreaded app, which is more often then case for me.
2020-09-22 03:54:46 +0200andreas303(~andreas@gateway/tor-sasl/andreas303)
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2020-09-22 03:56:33 +0200 <Xnuk> yeah an application config is very static, actually I feel that fits for `Config -> m a` more imo.
2020-09-22 03:58:10 +0200 <Xnuk> Using `ReaderT` more than `StateT` is suprising for me btw
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2020-09-22 03:59:24 +0200 <Xnuk> for example, can I write parser (ex. JSON parser) with ReaderT?
2020-09-22 03:59:46 +0200flex14(~flex14@2601:280:c780:7ea0:d233:9ddf:c010:c113)
2020-09-22 04:00:19 +0200 <Xnuk> I usually write parser/scrapper in haskell
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2020-09-22 04:05:34 +0200 <pacak> You can use ReaderT part to pass some configuration parts to your parser. I was using it to pass a big ass lookup table.
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2020-09-22 04:35:27 +0200hackageflink-statefulfun 0.1.0.1 - Flink stateful functions SDK https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flink-statefulfun-0.1.0.1 (tdbgamer)
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2020-09-22 06:00:32 +0200 <edwardk> i now have managed to figure out how to take the library of singleton types i have, build a category of arrows that take Sing a -> Sing b , show that is really SingI a => Sing b and has composition, where the kinds act as a sort of fiber over the terms in the language. Then I can build a category -># of the fibers, basically indexed by the kinds of the arguments in the polykinded category of functions between singletons (which
2020-09-22 06:00:32 +0200 <edwardk> acts like the constraints package on steroids) and get all haskell functions
2020-09-22 06:01:10 +0200sepi(49dc4892@c-73-220-72-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 06:01:39 +0200 <edwardk> now I want to clean up the presentation to make it clearer that the latter category of finers where arrows from i -> j are (forall (a::i). (Sing a -> Some (Sing @j)) are themselves describable
2020-09-22 06:01:44 +0200 <edwardk> er fibers
2020-09-22 06:01:47 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
2020-09-22 06:02:25 +0200 <edwardk> which then recovers richard's work in the singletons library, but with my own weird spin
2020-09-22 06:02:58 +0200hackageflink-statefulfun 0.2.0.0 - Flink stateful functions SDK https://hackage.haskell.org/package/flink-statefulfun-0.2.0.0 (tdbgamer)
2020-09-22 06:03:11 +0200palancovich99(~ranc199@2800:a4:17ce:600:bdde:ea99:e9ec:7574)
2020-09-22 06:03:57 +0200ericsagnes(~ericsagne@2405:6580:0:5100:1d6:8b82:83b6:a62b)
2020-09-22 06:05:51 +0200 <edwardk> i guess what i really need is singletons for 'Some f'
2020-09-22 06:05:53 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37)
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2020-09-22 06:06:22 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> Sounds like you're having fun
2020-09-22 06:06:30 +0200unlink2(~unlink2@p200300ebcf25bd0068eb9d9c94da2a17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 06:06:35 +0200 <edwardk> generally, yes =)
2020-09-22 06:07:08 +0200 <edwardk> i have one bottleneck with my current approach
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2020-09-22 06:07:38 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net)
2020-09-22 06:07:47 +0200 <edwardk> i'd like to take types of kind (i -> j) and treat them at the value level as i do types of kind Type, which is as typereps for Type, here i'd want them to be typereps for types of kind (i -> j)
2020-09-22 06:07:50 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
2020-09-22 06:08:44 +0200 <edwardk> but my reflection does 'on the nose' translations from types to terms, and that would mean that fromSing :: Sing (Maybe :: Type -> Type) -> Type -> Type
2020-09-22 06:08:50 +0200 <edwardk> hrmm, maybe that checks out
2020-09-22 06:09:26 +0200 <edwardk> except now i need to figure out what higher order functions look like
2020-09-22 06:10:39 +0200 <sepi> https://dpaste.org/AbtT currently trying to move onto the next element if there is no "match", [] is a placeholder, a little stuck, Any tips?
2020-09-22 06:10:51 +0200day_(~Unknown@unaffiliated/day)
2020-09-22 06:10:57 +0200polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 06:12:05 +0200 <edwardk> But I need to be able to represent singletons for kind (i -> Type) at the least to make headway on talking about Some f in general, or Some (Sing @k) -- in particular
2020-09-22 06:12:31 +0200 <edwardk> i have two existing types that look like Some x for different choices of x now. Constraint looks like Some Dict, and Type looks like Some TypeRep
2020-09-22 06:12:59 +0200werneta(~werneta@70-142-214-115.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 06:13:40 +0200 <edwardk> so this does seem to indicate what a singleton looks like here
2020-09-22 06:13:53 +0200 <edwardk> Sing (a :: Type) ~ TypeRep (a :: Type)
2020-09-22 06:14:07 +0200 <edwardk> Sing (a :: Constraint) ~ Dict (a :: Constraint)
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2020-09-22 06:15:14 +0200shafox(~shafox@106.51.234.111)
2020-09-22 06:15:33 +0200 <edwardk> but i want to be able to talk about Sing (Eq :: Type -> Constraint) or Sing (Maybe :: Type -> Type)
2020-09-22 06:18:21 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio)
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2020-09-22 06:18:49 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> Any particular goal with being able to have constraints there?
2020-09-22 06:18:54 +0200Axman6stocks up on non-perishable food and supplies in case edwardk unlocks something truly disasterous for the planet
2020-09-22 06:19:04 +0200 <edwardk> ok, so the problem with the type rep story is i can compare TypeRep (a :: Type -> Type) for equality with another TypeRep (a :: Type -> Type) -- but i can't do that with the Type -> Type encoding
2020-09-22 06:19:07 +0200 <edwardk> yes!
2020-09-22 06:19:14 +0200 <edwardk> this makes Sing become Dict
2020-09-22 06:19:23 +0200 <Axman6> see, he's a madman
2020-09-22 06:19:34 +0200 <edwardk> just like TypeRep for Type makes Sing become TypeRep
2020-09-22 06:19:55 +0200 <edwardk> and making Nat ~ Natural lets me not have to change types between types/terms and can make round tripping through singletons O(1) not O(n)
2020-09-22 06:20:06 +0200 <edwardk> each one of these extends the space of operations i can do in constant time
2020-09-22 06:20:21 +0200 <edwardk> but since constraints are thin, they go into Sing
2020-09-22 06:20:23 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio)
2020-09-22 06:20:25 +0200 <edwardk> so does p :- q
2020-09-22 06:20:28 +0200 <edwardk> that has a singleton type
2020-09-22 06:20:29 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 06:20:53 +0200 <edwardk> so the arrows between singletons _also_ has a singleton type, because you can view them as SingI p :- SingI q
2020-09-22 06:20:59 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-22 06:21:13 +0200 <edwardk> so any function that acts on some singleton to build another passes the test
2020-09-22 06:21:33 +0200 <edwardk> so we get one category that generalizes Constraint, but which can also be used to tear apart terms
2020-09-22 06:21:42 +0200 <edwardk> and then i can look at all the fibers over it at kind Type, and we recover Hask
2020-09-22 06:22:12 +0200 <edwardk> and the way that => works, because we can view the left hand side of => and just Sing.. using the same vocabulary we do
2020-09-22 06:22:25 +0200 <edwardk> which motivates core treating constraints as thin, but still using them like types
2020-09-22 06:22:37 +0200 <edwardk> its just missing a layer of singleton type conversions to keep it sound
2020-09-22 06:23:35 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio)
2020-09-22 06:23:37 +0200 <edwardk> but i can only get away with my sort of 'homoiconic' Sing representation that has no overhead so long as all my types hold on the nose
2020-09-22 06:23:55 +0200 <edwardk> it works great right up til this need to lower terms of kind (i -> j)
2020-09-22 06:24:21 +0200 <edwardk> but I could get away there with a Demoted typeclass
2020-09-22 06:24:25 +0200 <edwardk> er
2020-09-22 06:24:27 +0200 <edwardk> type family
2020-09-22 06:24:33 +0200 <edwardk> just like is used in singletons
2020-09-22 06:24:44 +0200 <edwardk> but then it'll infect everything else i write
2020-09-22 06:25:33 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> What does thin used here mean? without inhabitants?
2020-09-22 06:25:34 +0200 <edwardk> basically type inference for the whole types lib goes to hell
2020-09-22 06:25:46 +0200 <edwardk> a thin category is one where between any two objects there is at most one arrow
2020-09-22 06:26:01 +0200 <edwardk> the category of constraints is thin (ignoring ImplicitParam fuckery)
2020-09-22 06:26:11 +0200 <edwardk> any partial order is thin viewed as -> = (<=)
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2020-09-22 06:26:55 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 06:27:03 +0200 <edwardk> here i'm building functions that take singletons to singletons. all it can do is sort of case on the input singleton of which there is only one, and produce a result, also in a singleton of which there is only one
2020-09-22 06:27:34 +0200 <edwardk> so such functions are just a recipe of oh, uncons this part and plumb the head here and tail there, and here is the result
2020-09-22 06:27:46 +0200 <edwardk> these are done for individual singletons
2020-09-22 06:28:01 +0200abhixec(~abhixec@c-67-169-141-95.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 06:28:26 +0200 <edwardk> and in Meta I can work with singletons that are types, natural numbers, arbitrary integers, anything with structural equality so i can promote it once and forall
2020-09-22 06:28:48 +0200 <edwardk> and i can build a category of such boring (Sing i -> Sing j) functions
2020-09-22 06:29:00 +0200 <edwardk> and then look at bundles. i and j there can have different kinds
2020-09-22 06:29:15 +0200 <edwardk> so if we quantify away i universally and j existentially but leave the kinds... we're left with hask
2020-09-22 06:29:35 +0200dolio(~dolio@haskell/developer/dolio)
2020-09-22 06:29:40 +0200Orbstheorem(~roosember@hellendaal.orbstheorem.ch) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-22 06:29:56 +0200 <edwardk> basically its all the functions that look at parts of their inputs (remember it has to work forall (i::a) and returns some (j::b) now, which is just what a function is
2020-09-22 06:30:13 +0200 <edwardk> in category theory this notion of sort of exploding your objects is something called the grothendieck construction
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2020-09-22 06:30:36 +0200 <edwardk> well there are many grothendieck constructions, but this is the one that folks talk about when talking about categories
2020-09-22 06:31:19 +0200 <edwardk> so it was pretty cool to me that i could build this super-laborious category, build functors for it, etc. manipulate the guts of basically anything made out of types, constraints, numbers, inductive data types, etc.
2020-09-22 06:31:23 +0200 <edwardk> then reassemble the result
2020-09-22 06:31:33 +0200 <edwardk> and get an Arrow that internally does way more weird stuff than you'd expect
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2020-09-22 06:31:55 +0200 <edwardk> and it has all the power of normal functions (it is ArrowApply, etc)
2020-09-22 06:32:14 +0200 <edwardk> so i could view this as a sort of 'ultimate form' for something like compiling to categories
2020-09-22 06:32:39 +0200 <edwardk> if i want said compilation to categories to handle dictionaries, representations of types, etc. correctly
2020-09-22 06:35:13 +0200 <edwardk> not sure how coherent that is
2020-09-22 06:35:17 +0200 <edwardk> but that is sort of the thought
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2020-09-22 06:55:15 +0200 <edwardk> anyways MarcelineVQ the other major need for constraints to live in Sing is that i may want to take singleton types over ADTs. i can singleton ~ constraints, but i need to be able to singleton up whatever dictionaries they may package up in their constructors
2020-09-22 06:55:24 +0200 <edwardk> that covers the existential fragment
2020-09-22 06:55:49 +0200 <edwardk> and i need to be able to take limits over things to handle the (forall x. whatever x) kinda fragments as well that pop up in ADTs a lot
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2020-09-22 06:56:02 +0200 <edwardk> otherwise my ability to introspect on singletons is quite limited
2020-09-22 06:56:26 +0200 <edwardk> the goal is to "fully" allow promotion of all haskell data types, not just the convenient ones like in byorgey's paper
2020-09-22 06:57:13 +0200 <edwardk> er data constructors
2020-09-22 06:57:15 +0200 <edwardk> not data types
2020-09-22 06:57:18 +0200 <edwardk> the types promote fine
2020-09-22 06:57:22 +0200 <edwardk> they just lack most of the stuff in them
2020-09-22 06:58:46 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 07:01:24 +0200 <siraben> What do people use here for proving correctness of programs in Haskell? Is liquid haskell still a good choice?
2020-09-22 07:01:34 +0200 <siraben> Also, introspection testing, and so on.
2020-09-22 07:01:46 +0200 <edwardk> liquid haskell works well if all your constraints are easy things to feed a sat solver involving numbers
2020-09-22 07:01:58 +0200 <edwardk> otherwise there are a couple of haskell to coq toolchains and something for isabelle, etc.
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2020-09-22 07:20:57 +0200 <shafox> I use ghcup to install ghc and cabal and use it in my project. However there are other tools that needs to be installed such as ghcid, hoogle, language-server etc which are bound by the ghc version to play well with the project. So I have started to look for a solution which can integrate all the tools that is needed for development env (for now), stumbled across on nix, however I am not sure whether nix can install all the dependency for a particular
2020-09-22 07:20:57 +0200 <shafox> ghc and I can use that in the project. Is there any blog posts or gist/github links where a env with developement tools are being used so that I can steal the config ?
2020-09-22 07:22:44 +0200 <Axman6> I don't know how it works, but at work we have something which will activate an environment, including nix stuff, when you cd into the project directory so everything Just Works
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2020-09-22 07:23:19 +0200 <shafox> Axman6, please share more about it.
2020-09-22 07:23:42 +0200 <Axman6> I can't share much, but I'll see if I can find names of things
2020-09-22 07:23:48 +0200__Joker(~Joker@180.151.104.210)
2020-09-22 07:24:04 +0200 <shafox> Alright.
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2020-09-22 07:25:19 +0200 <Axman6> looks like it uses something called direnv
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2020-09-22 07:27:08 +0200 <shafox> Axman6, yes. direnv doesnt actually solve what I have stated.
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2020-09-22 07:28:13 +0200 <Axman6> well, time for you to go and learn nix
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2020-09-22 07:28:31 +0200 <Axman6> it can solve the problems you have, and there's plenty of examples of people doing it on the net
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2020-09-22 07:34:08 +0200 <shafox> Axman6, Alright. Thank you though.
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2020-09-22 07:43:35 +0200 <edwardk> MarcelineVQ: another benefit of the encoding using singletons in the types library is that Sing a is a newtype around the constraint, where Dict is a data type
2020-09-22 07:43:38 +0200salumu(~sMuNiX@142.119.32.174)
2020-09-22 07:43:46 +0200 <edwardk> so it should kill a bunch of wrapping overhead
2020-09-22 07:43:56 +0200 <jdgr> Can we get a Haskell book for children?
2020-09-22 07:44:22 +0200 <jdgr> One that introduces all the theory in an easy to remember, easy to digest form?
2020-09-22 07:44:38 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.51.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
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2020-09-22 07:47:00 +0200mariatsji(~mariatsji@2a01:79d:53aa:c66c:342b:5324:f59b:5b0e)
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2020-09-22 07:48:23 +0200 <Axman6> the NICTA/Data61/system-f course teaches 90% of haskell in the first 20 minutes or so, but it's definitely best taken in person (ping dibblego)
2020-09-22 07:49:14 +0200kenran(~maier@b2b-37-24-119-190.unitymedia.biz)
2020-09-22 07:49:18 +0200 <Axman6> the rest is learning how to think in Haskell
2020-09-22 07:49:26 +0200s00pcan(~chris@075-133-056-178.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 07:50:29 +0200 <dibblego> LYAH is good for children
2020-09-22 07:50:39 +0200s00pcan(~chris@107.181.165.217)
2020-09-22 07:50:58 +0200hackagewitness 0.5 - values that witness types https://hackage.haskell.org/package/witness-0.5 (AshleyYakeley)
2020-09-22 07:51:13 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 07:51:37 +0200 <olligobber> LYAH is good
2020-09-22 07:51:58 +0200hackageopen-witness 0.5 - open witnesses https://hackage.haskell.org/package/open-witness-0.5 (AshleyYakeley)
2020-09-22 07:52:15 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-22 07:52:40 +0200 <olligobber> hmm, seems since christmas my laptop lost the modular-arithmetic package, now I have to figure out how to install packages again
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2020-09-22 07:56:06 +0200 <olligobber> hmm, `ghc-pkg check' is giving me a lot of warnings...
2020-09-22 07:56:34 +0200 <olligobber> is that bad?
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2020-09-22 08:00:01 +0200maxfragg1(~maxfragg@185.204.1.185) ()
2020-09-22 08:00:27 +0200 <dibblego> system-f/fp-course is good for children with in-person guidance
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2020-09-22 08:00:49 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> edwardk: neat stuff, what I could follow (ncatlab just kept linking me to more and more pages), and glad you're so excited :>
2020-09-22 08:02:06 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> full promotion is definitely neat
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2020-09-22 08:02:35 +0200 <edwardk> right now what i'm trying to do is get the template-haskell magic to be smart enough to properly promote p :- q
2020-09-22 08:02:43 +0200 <edwardk> i have manually translated Dict
2020-09-22 08:02:55 +0200 <edwardk> now i have a case where i have (p => Dict q) -- though
2020-09-22 08:03:17 +0200 <edwardk> i tried flipping newtype p :- q = Sub (p => Dict q) -- to something more like
2020-09-22 08:03:28 +0200ggole(~ggole@2001:8003:8119:7200:dc47:fb87:baff:bd1b)
2020-09-22 08:03:45 +0200 <edwardk> data p :- q where SubDict :: (p => q) -> p :- q
2020-09-22 08:03:47 +0200 <edwardk> er
2020-09-22 08:03:50 +0200 <edwardk> data p :- q where SubDict :: (p => q) => p :- q
2020-09-22 08:04:02 +0200 <edwardk> but that actually is less easily used than the other
2020-09-22 08:04:20 +0200 <edwardk> because we often open Sub to bring into scope the obligation we need a p, and then build q
2020-09-22 08:04:31 +0200 <edwardk> so trying to roundtrip those representations runs into a snag
2020-09-22 08:04:40 +0200 <edwardk> i have to use an unsafeCoerce trick to go one way
2020-09-22 08:04:44 +0200 <edwardk> which always makes me nervous
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2020-09-22 08:05:31 +0200 <edwardk> if i can use the latter encoding then i can just reuse the machinery i wrote for fixing Dict
2020-09-22 08:05:51 +0200 <edwardk> er for handling singletons of Dict
2020-09-22 08:05:54 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin)
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2020-09-22 08:07:05 +0200 <edwardk> it also gets in the way in subtle ways, like ghc is willing to talk about Dict (p => q) when i have constraint kinds enabled. but despite the fact that Sing @Constraint is basically the same it complains about Sing @Constraint (p => q) -- in particular that q should live in Type, not Constraint
2020-09-22 08:07:18 +0200 <edwardk> so the hacks we have that make => work in constraints are a bit wobbly around this sort of stuff
2020-09-22 08:07:27 +0200 <edwardk> not that impredicative types in haskell is terribly well supported
2020-09-22 08:07:47 +0200 <edwardk> er Dict (p => q) requires impredicative types, not just constraint kinds
2020-09-22 08:08:14 +0200mirrorbird(~psutcliff@2a00:801:44a:a00b:20c3:c64:eb15:73a2)
2020-09-22 08:08:31 +0200 <edwardk> i can of course make my own class (p => q) => p |- q; instance (p => q) => p |- q -- but that alias isn't something i can coerce into a function, unlike p => q -- which is internally knowable to be a function
2020-09-22 08:08:46 +0200 <edwardk> so i can kinda cast it around to Sing p -> Sing q
2020-09-22 08:09:12 +0200 <edwardk> 'oh the nose' taking advantage of the fact Sing is a newtype unlike Data
2020-09-22 08:09:26 +0200 <edwardk> er unlike Dict
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2020-09-22 08:12:11 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> why is Dict there impredicative? aren't p and q affixed in data p :- q ?
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2020-09-22 08:12:54 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> *affixed by
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2020-09-22 08:16:56 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> That is to say I don't see where the extra rank is coming from
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2020-09-22 09:17:52 +0200 <edwardk> MarcelineVQ: rankntypes and impredicative types in haskell aren't just about foralls but also constraints
2020-09-22 09:17:54 +0200 <edwardk> p => ...
2020-09-22 09:18:01 +0200 <edwardk> counts like bumping rank
2020-09-22 09:18:10 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> oh I'd no idea
2020-09-22 09:18:12 +0200 <edwardk> [p => q]
2020-09-22 09:18:15 +0200 <edwardk> is impredicative
2020-09-22 09:18:41 +0200 <edwardk> because ghc doesn't know when to float p, it tries to just float it outside anything it can
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2020-09-22 09:19:33 +0200 <edwardk> ImpredicativeTypes lets it allow that type, but ImpredicativeTypes is generally a horrorshow
2020-09-22 09:20:01 +0200 <edwardk> the quick look at types paper should just allow this as well, as would andras kovacs' implicit fun elaboration stuff
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2020-09-22 11:38:17 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm, servant seems to be blowing up the simplifier quite a bit. Approaching 30s for my Server module. :(
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2020-09-22 11:48:22 +0200 <AWizzArd> Generic Haskell. Thesis of Andres Löh. How much of it is still valid and up-to-date? Can one still read this and find today’s GHC working very exactly as back then, 16 (!) years ago? https://www.andres-loeh.de/ExploringGH.pdf
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2020-09-22 11:58:19 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net)
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2020-09-22 12:00:28 +0200hackagestack-clean-old 0.1 - Clean away old stack build artefacts https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stack-clean-old-0.1 (JensPetersen)
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2020-09-22 12:05:30 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: are you sure it's not aeson?
2020-09-22 12:05:50 +0200 <kuribas> dminuoso: I find my JSON types take the longest to compile
2020-09-22 12:06:27 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 12:06:32 +0200 <kuribas> with all the generics
2020-09-22 12:07:09 +0200 <dminuoso> kuribas: Quite, yes. My JSON instances are handwritten.
2020-09-22 12:07:13 +0200tomboy64(~tomboy64@gateway/tor-sasl/tomboy64)
2020-09-22 12:07:16 +0200 <kuribas> of course for servant to be somewhat performant it has to inline all the type class definitions.
2020-09-22 12:07:34 +0200 <dminuoso> Well, perhaps it's that.
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2020-09-22 13:13:47 +0200 <yushyin> maerwald: thanks for GHCUP_USE_XDG_DIRS but it is not mentioned in --help, also `ghcup compile ghc ...' still uses ~/.ghcup/{cache,logs} even if GHCUP_USE_XDG_DIRS is set.
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2020-09-22 13:49:55 +0200 <AWizzArd> What is the package/derivation name in Nix for the Haskell Language Server?
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2020-09-22 13:51:31 +0200 <Uniaika> AWizzArd: https://search.nixos.org/packages?show=haskellPackages.haskell-language-server&query=haskell-langu…
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2020-09-22 13:52:44 +0200 <dminuoso> Pretty sure that's just the wrapper for the cabal package
2020-09-22 13:52:51 +0200 <dminuoso> Unless that's what AWizzArd is looking for :)
2020-09-22 13:53:00 +0200jedws(~jedws@121.209.139.222)
2020-09-22 13:53:05 +0200mariatsji(~mariatsji@2a01:79d:53aa:c66c:342b:5324:f59b:5b0e) ()
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2020-09-22 13:55:04 +0200 <Uniaika> dminuoso: aren't many nix derivations just wrappers for the cabal package? :P
2020-09-22 13:55:06 +0200Amras(~Amras@unaffiliated/amras0000)
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2020-09-22 13:56:15 +0200 <AWizzArd> I thought there might be a binary, compiled for a certain GHC version.
2020-09-22 13:58:14 +0200alx741(~alx741@186.178.110.154)
2020-09-22 14:00:02 +0200Cros1(~Cros@217.146.82.202) ()
2020-09-22 14:02:03 +0200fendor(~fendor@77.119.129.26.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-09-22 14:06:02 +0200 <Uniaika> Ah, that's a different request
2020-09-22 14:06:11 +0200 <Uniaika> I'm getting those directly from their GitHub release page
2020-09-22 14:06:21 +0200 <Uniaika> I'm pretty sure they don't exist in nixpkgs
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2020-09-22 14:07:09 +0200 <AWizzArd> Uniaika: I would like to include the language server in my Nix environment. I don’t want to install the HLS globally cause different projects may want to use different GHC versions.
2020-09-22 14:07:21 +0200dirediresalt(DirefulSal@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/direfulsalt)
2020-09-22 14:07:30 +0200 <Uniaika> AWizzArd: well, that's why haskell-language-server-wrapper is for
2020-09-22 14:07:34 +0200 <dminuoso> AWizzArd: https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/122
2020-09-22 14:07:55 +0200 <Uniaika> typically in my path I have : .local/bin/haskell-language-server-8.6.5* .local/bin/haskell-language-server-8.8.3* .local/bin/haskell-language-server-wrapper*
2020-09-22 14:08:10 +0200 <AWizzArd> My idea was to include the HLS in each project. Then I could start a nix shell in which I call Emacs, so that this instance of Emacs can "see" the specific HLS.
2020-09-22 14:08:36 +0200dminuosokicks back, thinking ghcid is the sweet spot of "ease of setup and future compatibility"
2020-09-22 14:08:53 +0200 <dminuoso> And for what it brings. :)
2020-09-22 14:09:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Maybe I should try out hls to know what the fuzz is about, but so far ghcid has not kept me wanting more.
2020-09-22 14:10:36 +0200urodna(~urodna@unaffiliated/urodna)
2020-09-22 14:11:05 +0200mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@2.178.188.114)
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2020-09-22 14:15:37 +0200shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.36.59)
2020-09-22 14:15:39 +0200 <siraben> Why doesn't haskell-lsp in Emacs recognize packages in my cabal file?
2020-09-22 14:15:47 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.219.58) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:15:50 +0200 <siraben> Like if I have project-specific dependencies, it says the library could not be found
2020-09-22 14:16:17 +0200 <maralorn> AWizzArd: If you take haskell-language-server from the haskell.packages.ghcxxx version that you use for your project you should be fine. Although we don‘t build or test hls for anything other than the default ghc version.
2020-09-22 14:17:17 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-22 14:17:32 +0200 <maralorn> Meaning: hls is always implicitly build for the ghc version you use to build it.
2020-09-22 14:17:44 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.219.58)
2020-09-22 14:17:59 +0200 <maralorn> dminuoso: I actually have projects for which hls works and ghcid fails.^^
2020-09-22 14:18:39 +0200 <dminuoso> maralorn: Curious, why is that?
2020-09-22 14:19:14 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: I don't think ghcid is remotely comparable to ghcide/hls, tbh
2020-09-22 14:19:57 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: I want warning/errors in my editor and the ability to query types. ghcid requires sacrificing an entire terminal window to it and can't even tell you the type of an expression
2020-09-22 14:19:59 +0200 <maralorn> dminuoso: Not sure. It's probably easy to fix. But just saying it also sometimes fails to deliver ootb.
2020-09-22 14:20:01 +0200drbean(~drbean@TC210-63-209-182.static.apol.com.tw)
2020-09-22 14:20:34 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: I can query types quickly with (f :: _), ghcid gives me a prompt response. ;)
2020-09-22 14:20:36 +0200 <AWizzArd> maralorn: how is "default ghc version" defined?
2020-09-22 14:20:53 +0200 <dminuoso> merijn: And for the "entire terminal window" that's not true. I have my ghcid running in compilation-mode in emacs just fine
2020-09-22 14:21:40 +0200 <maralorn> AWizzArd: It's the one used to build all packages in pkgs.haskellPackages and the one you get with pkgs.ghc. So you can see the default version just in the package search.
2020-09-22 14:21:52 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: Right, so all I have to do is switch to a completely different editor and get a complicated setup to work there :p
2020-09-22 14:21:57 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 14:22:08 +0200 <maralorn> Right now it's 8.6.5 in 20.03 and 8.8.4 on 20.09 and unstable.
2020-09-22 14:22:31 +0200 <dminuoso> Not sure about complicated setup *shrugs*
2020-09-22 14:22:42 +0200 <dminuoso> It's a really simplistic elisp file to tie ghcid into emacs
2020-09-22 14:22:49 +0200 <merijn> dminuoso: It's emacs, any setup is gonna be complicated :)
2020-09-22 14:23:02 +0200 <dminuoso> Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind then
2020-09-22 14:23:30 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net)
2020-09-22 14:23:34 +0200 <maralorn> For what it's worth the hls feedback is (or at least feels) just significantly faster then ghcid. Also hls has a quickly growing number of amazing features. Like applying warning corrections, etc.
2020-09-22 14:23:41 +0200 <siraben> How can I make Haskell mode detect cabal packages?
2020-09-22 14:24:22 +0200 <AWizzArd> maralorn: having an implicit build for my concrete ghc version is good of course. It would be nice if I didn’t have to specify version numbers in multiple places. Optimal is just to pin a certain Nix repo hash.
2020-09-22 14:25:33 +0200 <dminuoso> maralorn: I dont want a fight at all, but how can lsp be faster? How does lsp obtain its information?
2020-09-22 14:25:42 +0200 <dminuoso> Surely it interfaces with ghc or ghci under the hood
2020-09-22 14:26:03 +0200 <dminuoso> (I dont know the details of how ghcide works internally)
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2020-09-22 14:26:54 +0200 <maralorn> dminuoso: I don‘t know. It just has a running ghc-session and only re-typechecks the changed parts.
2020-09-22 14:27:10 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:27:19 +0200 <maralorn> I just can say that often the type error appears milliseconds after leaving insert mode.
2020-09-22 14:27:21 +0200 <dminuoso> Fair enough, I can see how that could be faster. :)
2020-09-22 14:27:27 +0200 <AWizzArd> Currently I like Intero most. Left-hand side is code, right-hand side the repl. I can mark sub expressions and get their types. Alas, it’s no longer maintained and it’s just a question of time until HLS will have overtaken.
2020-09-22 14:27:45 +0200 <dminuoso> How does ghcide fare with the unstable GHC API?
2020-09-22 14:28:09 +0200 <dminuoso> I mean this is my main motivator for ghcid, it just works regardless of how the GHC API changes
2020-09-22 14:28:13 +0200 <maralorn> dminuoso: With tons of CPP. It's a nightmare.
2020-09-22 14:28:16 +0200 <dminuoso> Heh
2020-09-22 14:29:14 +0200 <maralorn> dminuoso: But right now it's really well maintained. So I don‘t think that new ghc versions will loose support in the next years.
2020-09-22 14:30:20 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: I don‘t understand your question. But have you tried writting an explicit hie.yaml file?
2020-09-22 14:30:30 +0200 <dminuoso> I might give it a try some day. From the looks of it, it's nicely modular, I just not convinced I want to drag lsp-ui into emacs :(
2020-09-22 14:30:40 +0200 <dminuoso> Im a big fan of my sleek and small emacs setup
2020-09-22 14:30:51 +0200 <dminuoso> (or is there an lsp tie into compilation-mode?)
2020-09-22 14:30:53 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: I don't have an explicit hie.yaml, basically I have my dependencies in the cabal file and expect HIE to see them as well
2020-09-22 14:31:11 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> Hello all. I'm having trouble recompiling xmonad with ghc 8.8.3: I am running FreeBSD 12; cabal-install installed from packages; latest version installed with `cabal install Cabal cabal-install`; installed xmonad and xmonad-contrib via cabal with command `cabal install --overwrite-policy=always xmonad xmonad-contrib` - completed without error; $PATH includes $HOME/.cabal/bin; there is a symlink to
2020-09-22 14:31:17 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> xmonad inside (symlink created successfully); `whereis xmonad` returns $HOME/.cabal/bin/xmonad; but xmonad --recompile causes the error: "Could not find module XMonad"; neither does it find any of the xmonad-contrib modules. Everything was working before i updated my system. I have made no changes to $HOME/.xmonad/xmonad.hs
2020-09-22 14:31:29 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Oh, I don‘t know anything about HIE. But you I would also expect it to see them.
2020-09-22 14:32:29 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> My config file: https://paste.mozilla.org/2c8jfWF5
2020-09-22 14:32:37 +0200 <siraben> Hang on, what's the difference between HIE and haskell-language-serevr?
2020-09-22 14:32:38 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Presumably $HOME/.cabal/bin/ is not on PATH for the user who initially started xmonad?
2020-09-22 14:32:53 +0200 <merijn> siraben: None
2020-09-22 14:32:53 +0200 <siraben> I have this in my config, `(setq lsp-haskell-process-path-hie "haskell-language-server-wrapper")`
2020-09-22 14:32:53 +0200lolo_(~laurent@clg-coutanciere-44.dyn.ac-nantes.fr)
2020-09-22 14:32:55 +0200 <dminuoso> siraben: haskell-language-server is ghcide bolted onto lsp
2020-09-22 14:33:03 +0200 <dminuoso> (roughly)
2020-09-22 14:33:05 +0200 <merijn> siraben: HIE is/has been merging with hls
2020-09-22 14:33:20 +0200 <merijn> siraben: See https://mpickering.github.io/ide/posts/2020-05-08-state-of-haskell-ide.html
2020-09-22 14:33:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Ah heh indeed
2020-09-22 14:33:35 +0200 <siraben> Hm, then I don't get why emacs isn't seeing my cabal packages
2020-09-22 14:33:37 +0200lolo_(~laurent@clg-coutanciere-44.dyn.ac-nantes.fr) (Client Quit)
2020-09-22 14:33:44 +0200 <siraben> I'm not using a nix shell for this project because of custom overrides
2020-09-22 14:34:00 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> @dminuoso I believe it is: echo $PATH shows it is.
2020-09-22 14:34:00 +0200 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
2020-09-22 14:34:12 +0200 <siraben> And one of the dependencies has been marked broken on pkgs.haskellPackages
2020-09-22 14:34:17 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: "for the user who initially started xmonad"
2020-09-22 14:34:24 +0200cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 14:34:30 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: There is no global PATH. It's an environment variable.
2020-09-22 14:34:34 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> yes, that is me.
2020-09-22 14:34:41 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Let me clarify
2020-09-22 14:34:45 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Have you run haskell-language-server-wrapper in the terminal? What does it display?
2020-09-22 14:34:47 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: From the *environment* xmonad is started from.
2020-09-22 14:34:51 +0200 <dminuoso> How is xmonad started?
2020-09-22 14:35:10 +0200 <dminuoso> Ohh
2020-09-22 14:35:16 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: I didnt read carefully, different problem
2020-09-22 14:35:17 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.219.58) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:35:35 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: http://ix.io/2yo8
2020-09-22 14:35:35 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> by my ~/.xinitrc file, and the command startx. This is after adding ~/.cabal/bin to my $PATH
2020-09-22 14:35:40 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Which version does `cabal --version` return?
2020-09-22 14:35:47 +0200 <siraben> It's trying to find a Main.hs file, but I'm working on a library
2020-09-22 14:36:05 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> 3.2.0.0
2020-09-22 14:36:11 +0200cheater(~user@unaffiliated/cheater)
2020-09-22 14:36:17 +0200flex14(~flex14@2601:280:c780:7ea0:d233:9ddf:c010:c113)
2020-09-22 14:37:00 +0200 <siraben> cabal repl works fine, but LSP is complaining about libraries it can't find, hm.
2020-09-22 14:37:09 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Mmm, let check the sources of xmonad real quick
2020-09-22 14:38:21 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: So personally, I'd recommend using the cabal v2- features. Set the xmonad directory up as a cabal project with a cabal file, set up a build script, which just calls `cabal build`.
2020-09-22 14:38:22 +0200darjeeling_(~darjeelin@122.245.219.58)
2020-09-22 14:39:02 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> I can add that `ghci -v ~/.xmonad/xmonad.hs` states the following locations searched: Locations searched: XMonad.hs XMonad.lhs XMonad.hsig XMonad.lhsig
2020-09-22 14:39:18 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
2020-09-22 14:39:19 +0200 <dminuoso> It's likely that your cabal version was bumped from below 3 to above 3, which now defaults to v2-*. Alternatively you could use v1-install in the above
2020-09-22 14:39:26 +0200 <dminuoso> The problem is, `cabal install` no longer does what you think it does
2020-09-22 14:39:33 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: here's the full log https://paste.debian.net/hidden/4429c229/
2020-09-22 14:39:38 +0200 <maerwald> shafox: I'm integrating haskell-language-server into ghcup as we speak
2020-09-22 14:39:48 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: But really, Id say go with the above.
2020-09-22 14:41:51 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> I will give it a try. Thank you.
2020-09-22 14:41:59 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:42:31 +0200 <maerwald> shafox: and then I've an idea for a "ghcup satisfy" command, which would partly be a rip-off of https://github.com/vabal/vabal
2020-09-22 14:43:03 +0200 <maerwald> I'm not sure if that's what you had in mind, feel free to open a ticket
2020-09-22 14:43:39 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Hm, the second log looks fine …
2020-09-22 14:44:01 +0200 <maerwald> yushyin: can you open a ticket for that (preferably against master)
2020-09-22 14:44:11 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> ah, i forgot to add that `ghc-pkg list` lists a lot of things, but not xmonad or xmonad-contrib. `ghc-pkg` recache, does not help. Why is it not "visible"?
2020-09-22 14:44:45 +0200sirabenuploaded an image: Screen Shot 2020-09-22 at 19.44.29.png (246KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UlJVsSxbfoTpFFsWCYIFuZbf/Screen Shot 2020-09-22 at 19.44.29.png >
2020-09-22 14:44:48 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: ^
2020-09-22 14:44:53 +0200Franciman(~francesco@host-82-55-138-222.retail.telecomitalia.it)
2020-09-22 14:45:03 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: So roughly, cabal has two modes called old-style and new-style
2020-09-22 14:45:24 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: In old-style, you had this notion of the "one global package database", where cabal install would build a package and register it with ghc-pkg
2020-09-22 14:45:55 +0200 <maerwald> new-style is also global :p
2020-09-22 14:46:01 +0200polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:d81b:49ea:d8f1:8f81)
2020-09-22 14:46:06 +0200 <dminuoso> In new-style, which is nix inspired, packages are built into a store, hashed by version, constraints, etc. Then, when cabal selects a plan, it will configure a package database out of that according to the build plan
2020-09-22 14:46:09 +0200amiri(~amiri@cpe-76-91-154-9.socal.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 14:46:22 +0200 <dminuoso> Allowing multiple versions and flavors of a package to coexist
2020-09-22 14:46:58 +0200 <dminuoso> The fact that we have `cabal install` is a bit funny. We could, for the sake of this discussion, pretend that it doesnt make much sense anymore.
2020-09-22 14:47:06 +0200aaaaaa(~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:48:13 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> `cabal install` still makes sense for executables
2020-09-22 14:48:21 +0200 <dminuoso> You can access these styles by prefixing the commands with v1-/v2- or old-/new-, and if you dont specify a prefix, before 3.0 it would default to old/v1, and after 3.0 it defaults to new/v2
2020-09-22 14:48:29 +0200 <dminuoso> Which is why the behavior suddenly changed
2020-09-22 14:48:30 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> OK - I'm going to have to look into this much more. I'm not a Haskell developer, just like XMonad very much. Basically, instead of "installing it", I should "build it" as a project, right?
2020-09-22 14:48:51 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: I see! If you're not a haskell developer and want your stuff back to normal, use `v1-install` instead of `install`
2020-09-22 14:48:53 +0200 <dminuoso> and you should be fine
2020-09-22 14:49:13 +0200hhefesto(~user@2806:103e:27:514e:97f8:577a:384e:d8df) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:49:14 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> ohmysomuchuser: This is how I do XMonad (with Cabal new-style) https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/dotfiles/tree/master/xmonad
2020-09-22 14:49:29 +0200amiri(~amiri@cpe-76-91-154-9.socal.res.rr.com)
2020-09-22 14:49:47 +0200 <tomjaguarpaw> but bear in mind this issue and my hacky workaround: https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/154
2020-09-22 14:49:48 +0200 <dminuoso> Or you use a build file, like tomjaguarpaw has shown you. :)
2020-09-22 14:49:49 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net)
2020-09-22 14:50:19 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: what's happening with LSP for it not to see the libraries?
2020-09-22 14:50:50 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Just be aware that at some point in the future v1- commands will be dropped from cabal. But this is distant. For xmonad-only users, v1- is perfectly fine to use. :)
2020-09-22 14:50:53 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-22 14:51:13 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> I have to say, this is disapointingly convoluted :( I only started having problems when xmonad-contrib was removed from the FreeBSD pkg repositories.
2020-09-22 14:51:29 +0200 <maerwald> dminuoso: do you have a reference to that claim?
2020-09-22 14:51:35 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: I honestly don‘t know. I have only seen an issue like that once. That was under nixos.
2020-09-22 14:51:49 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> So if I don't want to worry about future dropped commands, I can just do what tomjaguarpaw suggested?
2020-09-22 14:52:38 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: It could have something to do with hls in emacs seeing different env-variables to discover packages. But I don‘t see why that would be the case.
2020-09-22 14:52:40 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:57:4cba:ee0e:cb3a)
2020-09-22 14:52:54 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Yeah.
2020-09-22 14:53:00 +0200 <siraben> potentially I could correct this by using direnv?
2020-09-22 14:53:23 +0200 <siraben> In a project that worked before, I had a shell.nix and using emacs-direnv everything worked
2020-09-22 14:53:24 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Im not sure his method is completely correct, but Id be happy to give you a helping hand if you have issues.
2020-09-22 14:53:35 +0200 <siraben> But since I have to do an override for one of the dependencies, I can't use shell.nix here
2020-09-22 14:53:45 +0200sleblanc(~sleblanc@unaffiliated/sebleblanc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 14:53:49 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Wait, have you installed anything in that setup with nix?
2020-09-22 14:54:04 +0200 <dminuoso> maralorn: cabal sandbox at least gives out deprecation notices, calling v1 style legacy.
2020-09-22 14:54:16 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: cabal and haskell language server is installed via nix, yeah
2020-09-22 14:54:17 +0200 <dminuoso> And I recall reading discussions marking v1 commands as deprecated
2020-09-22 14:54:19 +0200 <ohmysomuchuser> OK - I will attempt it his way, and will come back if need be. Thank you guys. While the tooling is a pain in the neck, you guys are great.
2020-09-22 14:54:29 +0200 <siraben> But I installed the libraries with cabal
2020-09-22 14:54:38 +0200 <dminuoso> Perhaps I misremember
2020-09-22 14:54:57 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: The tooling is actually pretty good, it's just that xmonad has a bit bizarre installation method.
2020-09-22 14:55:04 +0200nhandler1(~nhandler@193.56.252.210)
2020-09-22 14:55:05 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: And ghc?
2020-09-22 14:55:09 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) (Client Quit)
2020-09-22 14:55:15 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: via nix as well
2020-09-22 14:55:36 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: How old is your nixpkgs/hls?
2020-09-22 14:55:43 +0200aplainzetakind(~johndoe@captainludd.powered.by.lunarbnc.net)
2020-09-22 14:55:52 +0200 <siraben> i updated my nix channel roughly 24 hours ago
2020-09-22 14:55:55 +0200 <dminuoso> ohmysomuchuser: Since xmonad is not configured but *programmed* (think of xmonad as a library that you use to build a window manager with, and some stub executable), you step into the whole "build problem" domain
2020-09-22 14:56:05 +0200 <siraben> haskell-language-server version: 0.4.0.0 (GHC: 8.8.4)
2020-09-22 14:56:10 +0200 <dminuoso> build tools are really complicated. :)
2020-09-22 14:56:15 +0200 <siraben> The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 8.8.4
2020-09-22 14:57:41 +0200wavemode(~wavemode@097-070-075-143.res.spectrum.com)
2020-09-22 14:57:45 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Ugh
2020-09-22 14:58:10 +0200 <maralorn> Do you execute emacs inside the nix-shell?
2020-09-22 14:58:18 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: nope
2020-09-22 14:58:26 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: ^- I falsely send a message to someone else: cabal sandbox at least gives out deprecation notices, calling v1 style legacy. And I recall reading discussions marking v1 commands as deprecated
2020-09-22 14:58:27 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Can you try that?
2020-09-22 14:58:31 +0200 <siraben> I usually use direnv for that kinda thing
2020-09-22 14:58:35 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: I don't have a shell.nix here
2020-09-22 14:58:41 +0200 <maerwald> dminuoso: sandboxes are removed
2020-09-22 14:58:49 +0200 <maralorn> Oh
2020-09-22 14:58:56 +0200 <maerwald> but about v1- I don't remember a clear decision, maybe phadej knows
2020-09-22 14:59:04 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 14:59:04 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: Heh fair enough. Havent used these in a while :)
2020-09-22 14:59:27 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Can you tell if the missing packages are installed via cabal or via nix?
2020-09-22 14:59:30 +0200 <dminuoso> v1- is very consistently called "legacy" in various issues on haskell/cabal though :)
2020-09-22 14:59:36 +0200 <dminuoso> So that's rather suggestive already
2020-09-22 15:00:03 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-09-22 15:00:14 +0200 <dminuoso> Found it
2020-09-22 15:00:16 +0200 <dminuoso> maerwald: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/nix-local-build-overview.html
2020-09-22 15:00:22 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:00:23 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: I think it's through cabal
2020-09-22 15:00:24 +0200 <dminuoso> "[...] but these legacy commands will require the usage of the v1- prefix as of Cabal 3.0 and will be removed in a future release."
2020-09-22 15:00:26 +0200hyperisco(~hyperisco@d192-186-117-226.static.comm.cgocable.net)
2020-09-22 15:00:32 +0200 <siraben> also I didn't do cabal-install at all
2020-09-22 15:00:35 +0200 <siraben> only cabal build;
2020-09-22 15:00:39 +0200tchourihekkaidekapus
2020-09-22 15:00:48 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Do you use ghc.withPackages ?
2020-09-22 15:00:53 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Yeah, that should work.
2020-09-22 15:00:54 +0200Tesseraction(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:00:56 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: not for this project
2020-09-22 15:01:01 +0200 <maralorn> Okay
2020-09-22 15:01:06 +0200 <dminuoso> Based on the fact that they dont emit a deprecation notice, I guess v1 is gonna stay for at least a year or two. :)
2020-09-22 15:01:10 +0200 <siraben> everything worked when I used direnv, ghc.withPackages etc. in a previous project
2020-09-22 15:01:18 +0200 <siraben> but with this weird setup, it's not working exactly
2020-09-22 15:01:39 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: What's weird about the setup?
2020-09-22 15:01:41 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-188-019.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 15:01:50 +0200 <maralorn> Have you installed hls and cabal via nix-env or configuration.nix?
2020-09-22 15:02:03 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: https://github.com/siraben/pcf/tree/rebuild
2020-09-22 15:02:08 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: home-manager
2020-09-22 15:02:25 +0200 <siraben> so, like configuration.nix I guess
2020-09-22 15:02:35 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-188-019.res.spectrum.com)
2020-09-22 15:02:48 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: weird in the sense that it's not using nix, but a cabal file and a cabal.project file
2020-09-22 15:02:59 +0200 <siraben> but all my tools are nix-installed
2020-09-22 15:02:59 +0200son0p(~son0p@181.58.39.86) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:03:35 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:03:57 +0200Tesseraction(~Tesseract@unaffiliated/tesseraction)
2020-09-22 15:04:00 +0200 <kosmikus> AWizzArd: GHC has never been working as my thesis describes. The thesis describes an idealised version of Generic Haskell that used to be available as a separate preprocessor. whether it's still worth reading depends very much on what you want, but it's probably not.
2020-09-22 15:04:09 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-188-019.res.spectrum.com) (Excess Flood)
2020-09-22 15:04:26 +0200evanjs(~evanjs@075-129-188-019.res.spectrum.com)
2020-09-22 15:05:30 +0200 <AWizzArd> kosmikus: okay I see, the intro however is nice and of general interest.
2020-09-22 15:06:31 +0200 <siraben> Anyone working on an updated social graph for #haskell? https://wiki.haskell.org/wikiupload/3/3c/Haskell-current.png
2020-09-22 15:06:56 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: I think what's happening is LSP is using the GHC installed via nix
2020-09-22 15:06:58 +0200 <siraben> which doesn't have the packages
2020-09-22 15:07:15 +0200isovector1(~isovector@node-1w7jr9squrfoy3fci95ksrhpu.ipv6.telus.net)
2020-09-22 15:07:17 +0200isovector1(~isovector@node-1w7jr9squrfoy3fci95ksrhpu.ipv6.telus.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 15:08:02 +0200 <dminuoso> siraben: yahb has the most fields! :)
2020-09-22 15:08:45 +0200 <siraben> dminuoso: yahb?
2020-09-22 15:09:07 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 15:09:22 +0200 <dminuoso> % putStrLn "At your disposal"
2020-09-22 15:09:23 +0200 <yahb> dminuoso: At your disposal
2020-09-22 15:09:42 +0200 <dminuoso> Oh. That was supposed to read friends.
2020-09-22 15:09:43 +0200 <dminuoso> Mmm.
2020-09-22 15:09:49 +0200 <dminuoso> My code has more fields than friends. :(
2020-09-22 15:09:52 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: HLS doesn‘t call any ghc from the PATH, it uses the ghc compiled into it. But yeah, that is the one from nix.
2020-09-22 15:09:57 +0200 <dminuoso> Surprisingly no fiends
2020-09-22 15:10:39 +0200 <siraben> didn't know that gwern used to hang around here in 2008, heh
2020-09-22 15:10:46 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: ah
2020-09-22 15:10:55 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Wait. There is no haskell-language-server-wrapper in nixpkgs.
2020-09-22 15:11:09 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.108) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:11:10 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: haskellPackages.haskell-language-server
2020-09-22 15:11:45 +0200cpressey(~cpressey@88.144.69.118)
2020-09-22 15:11:48 +0200niHiggim(~manjaro-u@98.122.188.27)
2020-09-22 15:12:22 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Anyways can you try removing the "-wrapper" from your emacs config and see what happens?
2020-09-22 15:12:30 +0200 <maralorn> Maybe the wrapper discovers some other hls?
2020-09-22 15:13:11 +0200 <fendor> maralorn, small detail, hie-bios may use the ghc on the path to find the project ghc version
2020-09-22 15:13:36 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:13:40 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:13:42 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: I removed the "-wrapper" suffix from my config, still has the same issue
2020-09-22 15:13:54 +0200 <yushyin> maerwald: ah yes, I'm sorry, I have to revert my 'bug' report :D it works as expected. I had just a very messy environment after converting to XDG_DIRS and either had still an old ghcup somewhere in PATH or not all shells/tmux had GHCUP_USE_XDG_DIRS set.
2020-09-22 15:14:03 +0200 <siraben> fendor: what's hie-bios? I don't have that on my path
2020-09-22 15:14:04 +0200 <maerwald> I see
2020-09-22 15:14:24 +0200polyphem(~p0lyph3m@2a02:810d:640:776c:76d7:55f6:f85b:c889)
2020-09-22 15:14:34 +0200 <maerwald> yushyin: would have been surprised, because I abstract via directory getters
2020-09-22 15:14:52 +0200 <fendor> siraben, woops, sorry, I did not want to confuse you. It is just a library in HLS that is used to load a project, just ignore it.
2020-09-22 15:15:03 +0200 <siraben> ok, all good
2020-09-22 15:15:22 +0200John20(~John@82.46.59.122) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:15:26 +0200 <siraben> argh, surely someone's had this problem with haskell-lsp before, but looking around the internet no one seems to have
2020-09-22 15:15:58 +0200 <siraben> Ah, https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/54017/interactively-load-cabal-packages-within-haskell-m…
2020-09-22 15:16:30 +0200 <siraben> "I accidentally found out that the error is fixed when I cd to the directory and "cabal install varying --lib", [..]"
2020-09-22 15:17:10 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Just to clarify: haskell-lsp is a library hls uses to speak the language-server-protocol. So it might make more sense to talk about hls.^^
2020-09-22 15:17:15 +0200 <yushyin> maerwald: yeah, just a dumb mistake on my part :/
2020-09-22 15:17:35 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 15:17:37 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: ok, thanks
2020-09-22 15:17:46 +0200 <fendor> siraben, you definitely dont have to invoke `cabal install --lib`
2020-09-22 15:17:54 +0200 <maerwald> yushyin: it not showing up in --help is because you're the only one who ever complained about it :p
2020-09-22 15:17:59 +0200 <siraben> fendor: right, that's what I want to avoid
2020-09-22 15:18:15 +0200 <maralorn> <fendor "siraben, you definitely dont hav"> Or at least shouldn‘t have to.^^
2020-09-22 15:18:27 +0200John20(~John@82.46.59.122)
2020-09-22 15:18:48 +0200 <fendor> siraben, sorry, but what is the problem you observer? (Assuming it is not flycheck but hls)
2020-09-22 15:19:03 +0200 <fendor> oof, I may just read the history
2020-09-22 15:19:13 +0200 <siraben> fendor: there's an image I posted
2020-09-22 15:19:17 +0200 <siraben> that's probably the best way to explain it
2020-09-22 15:19:49 +0200 <siraben> I'm not sure if I'm articulating the various parts of it correctly, there's a lot of software interacting (emacs, cabal, nix, lsp, etc.)
2020-09-22 15:19:58 +0200 <maralorn> fendor: The debug output from running hls reports no errors, but in emacs it can‘t find the dependencies.
2020-09-22 15:20:09 +0200 <fendor> i just joined twenty minutes ago, did you post it in the last minutes?
2020-09-22 15:20:24 +0200aaaaaa(~ArthurStr@host-91-90-11-13.soborka.net)
2020-09-22 15:20:58 +0200 <siraben> fendor: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UlJVsSxbfoTpFFsWCYIFuZbf/Screen Shot 2020-09-22 at 19.44.29.png
2020-09-22 15:20:59 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Hm, maybe emacs is executing hls in the wrong directory? (just grasping here.)
2020-09-22 15:21:05 +0200 <fendor> siraben, then my first question would be, are you sure hls produces the errors and not some other tool such as flycheck?
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2020-09-22 15:21:39 +0200 <siraben> fendor: ah, when I do flycheck-list-errors, it appears there
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2020-09-22 15:21:53 +0200 <siraben> So flycheck is the culprit here?
2020-09-22 15:22:10 +0200 <fendor> maybe, I am unfortunately not really familiar with emacs plugins
2020-09-22 15:22:12 +0200 <siraben> fendor: result of running haskell-language-server https://paste.debian.net/1164295/
2020-09-22 15:22:26 +0200 <maralorn> Uuugh. I have never heard about flycheck. m(
2020-09-22 15:22:34 +0200 <fendor> that looks ok to me
2020-09-22 15:22:48 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: flycheck-verify-setup says https://paste.debian.net/1164296/
2020-09-22 15:23:01 +0200 <siraben> First checker to run seems to be lsp
2020-09-22 15:23:20 +0200 <fendor> maralorn, I remember that multiple users had problems with errors showing up because of other tools, that is the only reason I know about it :)
2020-09-22 15:23:52 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 15:23:55 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Can you just disable flycheck and see what happen?
2020-09-22 15:24:41 +0200 <siraben> Just disabled flycheck, but now all the hints and so on are gone
2020-09-22 15:24:44 +0200pgib(~textual@lmms/pgib) (Quit: 00 PC LOAD LETTER)
2020-09-22 15:25:10 +0200 <fendor> yeah, but the diagnostics are correct? How about completion, and types?
2020-09-22 15:25:17 +0200 <fendor> *type on hover
2020-09-22 15:25:24 +0200 <siraben> Ok, the types on hover seem to be correct
2020-09-22 15:25:34 +0200 <siraben> including the functions from the libraries it couldn't find before
2020-09-22 15:25:40 +0200 <siraben> implying that it loads correctly
2020-09-22 15:25:53 +0200fendorthrows confetti
2020-09-22 15:26:12 +0200 <siraben> Hm? But then why does flycheck report error?
2020-09-22 15:26:16 +0200 <siraben> I'm even more confused
2020-09-22 15:26:21 +0200 <fendor> flycheck and hls are completely unrelated
2020-09-22 15:26:26 +0200 <merijn> siraben: Because it's trying to use GHC directly or something
2020-09-22 15:26:41 +0200 <fendor> so I assume the setup of flycheck is broken in some way
2020-09-22 15:26:45 +0200 <fendor> but hls seems to work
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2020-09-22 15:31:05 +0200 <maralorn> fendor: Lesson learned.
2020-09-22 15:31:21 +0200 <siraben> https://github.com/jwiegley/dot-emacs/blob/18be11e9d1459ec9d80dcea87b562f7cd30f72a9/settings.el#L648
2020-09-22 15:31:22 +0200 <siraben> interesting
2020-09-22 15:31:51 +0200dhil(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-22 15:33:31 +0200 <fendor> maralorn, :)
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2020-09-22 15:34:10 +0200 <maralorn> Slightly unrelated: I imagine we could put some magic into nixpkgs so that haskell.packages.ghcxxx.haskell-language-server gives you a haskell-language-server-ghcxxx binary and even built them with hydra, so that we see build errors.
2020-09-22 15:34:12 +0200niHiggim(~manjaro-u@98.122.188.27)
2020-09-22 15:34:36 +0200 <maralorn> Then tha haskell-language-server-wrapper can work easily under nix, too.
2020-09-22 15:35:00 +0200cr3(~cr3@192-222-143-195.qc.cable.ebox.net)
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2020-09-22 15:39:10 +0200 <maralorn> I wonder if it would be worth it to have pkgs.haskell-language-server-ghcxxx top-level-packages. Might make it easier for people to discover them.
2020-09-22 15:39:40 +0200 <maralorn> Gonna carry that question to a more appropriate channel.
2020-09-22 15:40:27 +0200 <siraben> Ok
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2020-09-22 15:57:45 +0200 <ukari> why the type of same field `value1` can't be inferred when use fmap? (https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/2057)
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2020-09-22 16:00:58 +0200hackagerebase 1.7.4 - A more progressive alternative to the "base" package https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rebase-1.7.4 (NikitaVolkov)
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2020-09-22 16:03:28 +0200hackagererebase 1.7.4 - Reexports from "base" with a bunch of other standard libraries https://hackage.haskell.org/package/rerebase-1.7.4 (NikitaVolkov)
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2020-09-22 16:23:10 +0200 <hololeap> i have a local cabal project "linked" to my current project using cabal.project.local, but it's not finding the haddock docs for this other project: Warning ... could not find link destinations for ...
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2020-09-22 16:23:44 +0200ddellacosta(~dd@86.106.121.168)
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2020-09-22 16:24:56 +0200ionut_(~ionut@86.125.68.211)
2020-09-22 16:25:23 +0200 <hololeap> the line in cabal.project.local looks like `packages: ../foo/foo.cabal`
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2020-09-22 16:26:58 +0200hackagedoctest-lib 0.1 - Parts of doctest exposed as library https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest-lib-0.1 (HenningThielemann)
2020-09-22 16:27:02 +0200ionut_(~ionut@86.125.68.211) ()
2020-09-22 16:27:43 +0200 <hololeap> Warning: The documentation for the following packages are not installed. No links will be generated to these packages: ...
2020-09-22 16:27:57 +0200hackagedoctest-exitcode-stdio 0.0 - Run doctest's in a Cabal.Test.exitcode-stdio environment https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest-exitcode-stdio-0.0 (HenningThielemann)
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2020-09-22 16:29:19 +0200 <hololeap> what would be the best way to link to the generated haddocks inside the other package dir, or should i just install the other package
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2020-09-22 16:45:00 +0200 <ahri> I've been poking around trying to work out how to use ghcjs with stack, there's old docs saying Stack will automagically download snapshots but that's no longer true as far as I can tell. GHCJS' github talks about building the compiler, which is cool, but I'll have to tell stack to use it somewhere, right?
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2020-09-22 17:08:15 +0200 <maerwald> stack dropped support for ghcjs, no?
2020-09-22 17:08:36 +0200 <tdammers> did they ever have proper support in the first place?
2020-09-22 17:08:36 +0200 <maerwald> I'm not sure, but I believe most ppl use nix for that
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2020-09-22 17:09:31 +0200 <tdammers> also, getting either stack or cabal to use your ghcjs compiler is the easy part; the hard part is figuring out how to make them download and compile packages from the right repository the right way
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2020-09-22 17:15:59 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: i finally resolved it
2020-09-22 17:16:04 +0200 <siraben> had to have a hie.yaml file all along...
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2020-09-22 17:17:04 +0200 <maralorn> siraben: Oh, okay.
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2020-09-22 17:17:39 +0200 <siraben> maralorn: new issue that it seems to hang when I open the haskell file, hm.
2020-09-22 17:17:59 +0200xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:5222:7400:a532:31e:75e4:cc8b)
2020-09-22 17:18:17 +0200 <maralorn> :-/
2020-09-22 17:20:39 +0200tomatopotato(~tomatopot@s91904426.blix.com)
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2020-09-22 17:21:48 +0200 <siraben> but, progress nonetheless
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2020-09-22 17:23:45 +0200cpressey(~cpressey@88.144.69.118)
2020-09-22 17:23:50 +0200 <maerwald> tdammers: ah right, I remember some ppl used to set up hackage overlays for thatt
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2020-09-22 17:26:58 +0200DataComputist(~lumeng@static-50-43-26-251.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
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2020-09-22 17:30:27 +0200bloodsta1ker(~bloodstal@46.166.187.154)
2020-09-22 17:34:15 +0200solonarv(~solonarv@anancy-653-1-63-100.w109-217.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-22 17:34:23 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
2020-09-22 17:34:27 +0200eric_(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b4fa:173:5d88:9ad1:a8df)
2020-09-22 17:35:12 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-22 17:40:48 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab00c51d1171b9c0c856.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-22 17:41:59 +0200polyrain(~polyrain@2001:8003:e501:6901:d81b:49ea:d8f1:8f81) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-22 17:42:21 +0200Guest_91(84ccf37c@x-132-204-243-124.xtpr.umontreal.ca)
2020-09-22 17:42:41 +0200 <Guest_91> got a prob while installing haskell on mac
2020-09-22 17:42:59 +0200shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.36.59) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 17:43:31 +0200 <Guest_91> can somebody help me ??
2020-09-22 17:43:46 +0200 <siraben> Guest_91: just ask your question
2020-09-22 17:44:32 +0200 <Guest_91> i install haskell via their website but when i wanna use i get the error GHCi command not found
2020-09-22 17:44:58 +0200 <Guest_91> how to overcome this error??
2020-09-22 17:46:23 +0200aarvar(~foewfoiew@50.35.43.33)
2020-09-22 17:46:41 +0200sagax(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 17:47:22 +0200Turmfalke(~user@unaffiliated/siracusa)
2020-09-22 17:47:32 +0200blase(~blase@4e69b241.skybroadband.com)
2020-09-22 17:47:34 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 17:50:13 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-101-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-22 17:50:31 +0200 <c_wraith> well first of all, how did you actually install it? "via the website" isn't really informative. What was the name of the thing you downloaded? What did you run to install it?
2020-09-22 17:50:35 +0200Kaivo(~Kaivo@ec2-15-222-231-32.ca-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
2020-09-22 17:51:26 +0200 <Guest_91> https://www.haskell.org/ghcup/ t
2020-09-22 17:51:45 +0200 <c_wraith> ok. are you using bash as your shell?
2020-09-22 17:51:59 +0200 <maerwald> Guest_91: source ~/.ghcup/env
2020-09-22 17:52:03 +0200 <maerwald> in your current shell
2020-09-22 17:52:06 +0200dhil(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 17:52:13 +0200 <maerwald> then add the same line in ~/.bash_profile
2020-09-22 17:52:22 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 17:52:25 +0200 <Guest_91> i run this code on terminal to instal :curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://get-ghcup.haskell.org | sh
2020-09-22 17:52:58 +0200 <Guest_91> im using the terminal
2020-09-22 17:53:42 +0200 <AWizzArd> Emacs + Haskell Language Server: the three suggested Emacs plugins (lsp-mode, lsp-ui and lsp-haskell)... do they automatically try to call the haskell-language-server-wrapper exe, as soon as I open a .hs file? Or do I need to configure this binary at first?
2020-09-22 17:54:18 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab00c51d1171b9c0c856.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: knupfer)
2020-09-22 17:54:34 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab0070339623689cb0d4.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-22 17:56:21 +0200Aquazi(uid312403@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdptvzwawxoahyub)
2020-09-22 17:56:51 +0200shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 17:57:25 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts) (Quit: leaving)
2020-09-22 17:57:43 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
2020-09-22 17:58:10 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab0070339623689cb0d4.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Client Quit)
2020-09-22 17:58:23 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab006d6825eaf402e280.dip.versatel-1u1.de)
2020-09-22 17:59:10 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@181.203.58.122)
2020-09-22 17:59:38 +0200cpressey(~cpressey@88.144.69.118) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
2020-09-22 17:59:55 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 18:00:15 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 18:00:25 +0200Rudd0(~Rudd0@185.189.115.98)
2020-09-22 18:00:58 +0200 <maerwald> Guest_91: did you do what I said?
2020-09-22 18:02:34 +0200 <Guest_91> i am new on mac from windows and also new on haskell so please be more explicit !!!
2020-09-22 18:04:05 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:05:37 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:06:57 +0200 <yushyin> Needs more punctuation marks
2020-09-22 18:07:16 +0200 <sm[m]> that's telling you maerwald :)
2020-09-22 18:07:23 +0200ambiso(~ambiso@209.182.239.205) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2020-09-22 18:07:42 +0200ambiso(~ambiso@209.182.239.205)
2020-09-22 18:08:05 +0200 <sm[m]> welcome Guest_91 be patient and we can help you :)
2020-09-22 18:08:21 +0200 <maerwald> I don't have a mac, but sm[m] is very knowledgable about that
2020-09-22 18:08:22 +0200datajerk(~datajerk@sense.net) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.3 - https://znc.in)
2020-09-22 18:08:29 +0200mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@86.106.194.98)
2020-09-22 18:08:32 +0200 <sm[m]> doh
2020-09-22 18:08:45 +0200blackdog(~blackdog@198.211.112.85) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:08:46 +0200 <Guest_91> thank you
2020-09-22 18:09:01 +0200raichoo(~raichoo@213.240.178.58) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-22 18:09:13 +0200|-\|-\(~justsomeg@216.186.218.241)
2020-09-22 18:09:13 +0200|-\|-\(~justsomeg@216.186.218.241) (Changing host)
2020-09-22 18:09:13 +0200|-\|-\(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2020-09-22 18:09:22 +0200sfvm(~sfvm@37.228.215.148)
2020-09-22 18:09:45 +0200relrod(~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:10:25 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:11:55 +0200Colpop4323(~logstash@176.251.234.203)
2020-09-22 18:12:02 +0200 <sm[m]> if you use ghcup, I defer to your maerwald who is the worlds number one expert. I use brew or stack's install script, myself
2020-09-22 18:12:17 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 18:12:53 +0200 <yushyin> Guest_91: do you have the terminal still open? Type in 'source ~/.ghcup/env' and ghcup should work. If yes open the file ~/.bash_profile and also write that line into that file, save it! Open another terminal check if ghcup works
2020-09-22 18:13:00 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: xD
2020-09-22 18:13:05 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:13:13 +0200 <AWizzArd> About the Haskell Language Server: can it show me the types of sub expressions? For example I mark the var `y` in the call `foo x y z` and it will tell me the type of y?
2020-09-22 18:13:33 +0200blackdog(~blackdog@198.211.112.85)
2020-09-22 18:14:17 +0200 <Guest_91> it workkkkk, thankk youuuuu yushyin!!!!
2020-09-22 18:14:33 +0200relrod(~relrod@origin.elrod.me)
2020-09-22 18:14:35 +0200relrod(~relrod@origin.elrod.me) (Changing host)
2020-09-22 18:14:35 +0200relrod(~relrod@redhat/ansible.staff.relrod)
2020-09-22 18:14:39 +0200 <Turmfalke> > head (_ : "bar")
2020-09-22 18:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> error:
2020-09-22 18:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> • Found hole: _ :: Char
2020-09-22 18:14:45 +0200 <lambdabot> • In the first argument of ‘(:)’, namely ‘_’
2020-09-22 18:14:50 +0200 <Guest_91> how can i open the file ~/.bash_profile ??
2020-09-22 18:15:02 +0200datajerk(~datajerk@sense.net)
2020-09-22 18:15:04 +0200 <Turmfalke> AWizzArd: ^ You could use holes like in the example
2020-09-22 18:15:13 +0200 <yushyin> Guest_91: With any editor
2020-09-22 18:15:25 +0200hololeap(~hololeap@unaffiliated/hololeap)
2020-09-22 18:15:31 +0200 <yushyin> Don't know what mac users use
2020-09-22 18:16:14 +0200 <sm[m]> Guest_91: one way is to type: open -a textedit --args ~/.bash_profile
2020-09-22 18:16:16 +0200 <AWizzArd> Turmfalke: yes sure, I am just comparing what HLS already can do vs. intero.
2020-09-22 18:16:43 +0200 <AWizzArd> Turmfalke: in Intero I simply mark (in Emacs) the thing I want to know the type of and immediately get it in the mini buffer.
2020-09-22 18:16:50 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:17:01 +0200 <Turmfalke> Oh, I don't know even what those are, sorry
2020-09-22 18:19:44 +0200zebrag(~inkbottle@aaubervilliers-654-1-101-24.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2020-09-22 18:20:16 +0200oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:20:59 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 18:21:14 +0200nineonin_(~nineonine@50.216.62.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-22 18:22:02 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37)
2020-09-22 18:23:21 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 18:23:37 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:23:47 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-22 18:24:41 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku)
2020-09-22 18:26:36 +0200 <slack1256> The RecordDotSyntax is expected to land in 8.12 or so?
2020-09-22 18:27:06 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@198.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-22 18:27:06 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@198.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net) (Changing host)
2020-09-22 18:27:06 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus)
2020-09-22 18:27:42 +0200J_Arcane(sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-unhsxwafbyombroh) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:28:02 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr)
2020-09-22 18:28:05 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:28:20 +0200J_Arcane(sid119274@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tbeshiltkuiqzozn)
2020-09-22 18:30:00 +0200rkvist(~user@138.197.72.132)
2020-09-22 18:30:18 +0200 <rkvist> Does irc browse https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/ have a channel?
2020-09-22 18:30:50 +0200 <tomsmeding> rkvist: it does not have a dedicated irc channel, no; is there a particular reason you're asking?
2020-09-22 18:31:06 +0200nineonine(~nineonine@50.216.62.2)
2020-09-22 18:31:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> (at least, not that I know of :D)
2020-09-22 18:33:29 +0200 <monochrom> Isn't that this channel? :)
2020-09-22 18:35:46 +0200Saten-san(~Saten-san@ip-83-134-202-119.dsl.scarlet.be)
2020-09-22 18:39:19 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.241.6) (Quit: Sleeping)
2020-09-22 18:39:51 +0200 <rkvist> lol I am sure it is not because I forgot to install postgres and thus it is not working.
2020-09-22 18:41:42 +0200 <monochrom> I see what you mean now.
2020-09-22 18:43:40 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:44:33 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 18:44:44 +0200geekosaur(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-22 18:45:56 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37)
2020-09-22 18:47:57 +0200oish(~charlie@228.25.169.217.in-addr.arpa)
2020-09-22 18:48:06 +0200shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.36.59)
2020-09-22 18:48:51 +0200shad0w_(~shad0w_@160.202.36.59) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 18:51:47 +0200xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:5222:7400:a532:31e:75e4:cc8b) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 18:51:59 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'm afraid I don't fully see; perhaps a meaning of "channel" is used that I'm not getting? :)
2020-09-22 18:52:40 +0200 <monochrom> Rather, I think rkvist means a channel about the software used behind ircbrowse.
2020-09-22 18:53:26 +0200 <rkvist> Sorry didn't mean to cause existential issues, like normally when I go places.
2020-09-22 18:53:32 +0200xff0x(~fox@2001:1a81:5222:7400:a532:31e:75e4:cc8b)
2020-09-22 18:53:33 +0200 <tomsmeding> :p
2020-09-22 18:54:48 +0200 <monochrom> Are existing issues discovered, or are they created? <--- the ultimate meta-existential issue. >:)
2020-09-22 18:56:44 +0200 <hyperisco> I think "discovery" is the fundamental question
2020-09-22 18:57:00 +0200Lowl3v3l(~Lowl3v3l@dslb-090-186-188-115.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 18:57:48 +0200 <hyperisco> and I don't think discovering something creates it, so no! :P
2020-09-22 18:59:04 +0200 <geekosaur> I walked into the middle of something, and I'm still trying to figure out what. >.>
2020-09-22 18:59:35 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/haskell?id=14203&timestamp=1600792200#t1600792200
2020-09-22 19:00:07 +0200 <monochrom> It all began with my misinterpretation of a question. :)
2020-09-22 19:00:27 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus) (Quit: ->)
2020-09-22 19:01:00 +0200 <monochrom> TLDR it ended with my great skill in using puns to tie a knot.
2020-09-22 19:01:13 +0200sagax(~sagax_nb@213.138.71.146)
2020-09-22 19:02:14 +0200 <hyperisco> discovery = novel subjective actualisation
2020-09-22 19:02:48 +0200chrisdotcode(~chrisdotc@unaffiliated/chrisdotcode)
2020-09-22 19:02:52 +0200 <monochrom> hyperisco, we all know that discovery and creation are disjoint.
2020-09-22 19:03:18 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@45.78.189.122) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:03:33 +0200 <hyperisco> I thought this was a hotly debated amongst philo laymen like myself whenever "invention" is discussed :P
2020-09-22 19:03:35 +0200howdoi(uid224@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtjtqduklnimitip)
2020-09-22 19:03:39 +0200 <hyperisco> are inventions discovered or created
2020-09-22 19:03:51 +0200 <monochrom> But do you choose to frame your programming activity as "creating your code", or do you frame it as "discovering your code?"
2020-09-22 19:04:00 +0200 <int-e> neither, they're patented :-P
2020-09-22 19:04:07 +0200 <monochrom> haha you win
2020-09-22 19:04:13 +0200kritzefitz(~kritzefit@212.86.56.80)
2020-09-22 19:04:43 +0200 <monochrom> Because the set of all strings already exist as a mathematical set. Perhaps you discovered that you wanted one particular element to be your code.
2020-09-22 19:05:01 +0200dead10cc(63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207)
2020-09-22 19:05:01 +0200 <hyperisco> shoo Plato!
2020-09-22 19:05:56 +0200palmer67(47cc944a@c-71-204-148-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 19:06:02 +0200 <hyperisco> I could agree the set of all strings exist but I wouldn't agree that all strings exist
2020-09-22 19:06:05 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:06:10 +0200dhil(~dhil@11.29.39.217.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-22 19:06:27 +0200 <monochrom> OTOH if you take the stance that you created, not discovered, your code, then whatever reason you use for that stance is very likely widely applicable and so the next question is what is there to discover.
2020-09-22 19:07:01 +0200 <hyperisco> well you say they are disjoint, I don't
2020-09-22 19:07:47 +0200 <monochrom> (The converse is also true. Whatever reason you use to take the stance that, for example, math is discovered, is likely widely applicable and so what is there to create.)
2020-09-22 19:08:07 +0200__Joker_(~Joker@119.82.123.124) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:08:27 +0200__Joker(~Joker@106.206.41.150)
2020-09-22 19:08:47 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37)
2020-09-22 19:09:28 +0200 <geekosaur> on the one hand, "God created the integers; all else is the work of man."
2020-09-22 19:09:31 +0200alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:24bf:2628:a65:b9f2) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:09:46 +0200shatriff(~vitaliish@176.52.219.10)
2020-09-22 19:09:56 +0200ClaudiusMaximus(~claude@198.123.199.146.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-22 19:09:57 +0200 <geekosaur> on the other, I can follow hyperisco and various sculptors in saying that something exists in the abstract and is revealed by someone
2020-09-22 19:10:06 +0200 <monochrom> ObHaskell: Discovery is reading eagerly-pre-evaluated values. Creation is forcing lazily-eval-on-demand values.
2020-09-22 19:10:46 +0200 <hyperisco> I have a hard time understanding the authorship part of creation
2020-09-22 19:11:25 +0200 <hyperisco> I'd rather say something more mundane like effects are created by causes
2020-09-22 19:11:36 +0200 <monochrom> Well yeah, authorship and "giving credits" is a social construct. :)
2020-09-22 19:11:42 +0200 <hyperisco> but you can't really get to saying a person is a cause
2020-09-22 19:12:10 +0200 <monochrom> Do you accept "humanity as a whole is the author"?
2020-09-22 19:12:44 +0200 <hyperisco> if authorship can be explained to me maybe
2020-09-22 19:13:08 +0200sand_dull(~theuser@62.182.99.37) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:13:08 +0200__Joker(~Joker@106.206.41.150) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:13:27 +0200__Joker(~Joker@119.82.123.124)
2020-09-22 19:13:48 +0200 <geekosaur> considering intellectual property law, I am not sure it can be explained
2020-09-22 19:14:48 +0200 <hyperisco> for discovery it seems okay to handwave "brain states" and fine
2020-09-22 19:15:20 +0200supercoven_(~Supercove@dsl-hkibng32-54fb54-166.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:16:13 +0200 <hyperisco> but authorship seems murky because intuitively it is about originality
2020-09-22 19:16:30 +0200 <geekosaur> you can do much the same handwave for creation. after all, something exists beforehand, you've merely come up with a new way to organize it. with luck it's even a useful way
2020-09-22 19:17:07 +0200 <hyperisco> I could say I create my code, but I've also learned from other people, and I mimic their ideas, like Monad
2020-09-22 19:17:22 +0200 <hyperisco> so where have I authored and where haven't I?
2020-09-22 19:17:53 +0200alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:79c5:27e3:c619:e1ff)
2020-09-22 19:18:12 +0200Lord_of_Life_(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362)
2020-09-22 19:18:21 +0200 <hyperisco> if I read a bubble sort and I type it out myself verbatim, did I create that? maybe I created the copy of it, the copy is novel
2020-09-22 19:19:14 +0200 <hyperisco> which then confusingly is on a screen, in RAM chips, bits in the CPU caches, somewhere on my SSD, somewhere in the cloud backup
2020-09-22 19:19:50 +0200Lord_of_Life(~Lord@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:19:51 +0200 <hyperisco> did I create all of those or was that a feat of the hardware?
2020-09-22 19:20:05 +0200kuribas(~user@ptr-25vy0i6w0fjwv5tj6q0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.3))
2020-09-22 19:20:21 +0200 <hyperisco> maybe all I really did was author the performance of pressing keys
2020-09-22 19:20:25 +0200dead10cc(63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:20:31 +0200 <geekosaur> are you also a feat of the hardware?
2020-09-22 19:20:47 +0200 <hyperisco> maybe D:
2020-09-22 19:21:04 +0200Lord_of_Life_Lord_of_Life
2020-09-22 19:21:17 +0200 <monochrom> Who knows, perhaps the exact timing and velocity of your pressing keys constitute a new symphony.
2020-09-22 19:21:41 +0200 <maerwald> is there any terminal layout library (e.g. printing tables) that deals correctly with escape chars and unicode?
2020-09-22 19:21:51 +0200 <hyperisco> a real question \o/
2020-09-22 19:22:21 +0200ransom(~c4264035@c-73-243-2-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-22 19:22:28 +0200brown121407(~brown1214@brown.121407.xyz) (Changing host)
2020-09-22 19:22:28 +0200brown121407(~brown1214@fsf/member/brown121407)
2020-09-22 19:25:37 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-09-22 19:31:07 +0200 <geekosaur> hm. I think ircbrowse used to keep track of #ghc as well
2020-09-22 19:31:24 +0200 <geekosaur> (also the error message for an unknown channel is kinda unfortunate)
2020-09-22 19:31:28 +0200dyeplexer(~lol@unaffiliated/terpin) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2020-09-22 19:33:22 +0200slack1256(~slack1256@181.203.58.122) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:33:31 +0200 <geekosaur> maerwald, I'd doubt it re escapes; it's tricky at best
2020-09-22 19:33:37 +0200isovector1(~isovector@node-1w7jr9squrfoy3fci95ksrhpu.ipv6.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:33:54 +0200 <maerwald> brick deals with it correctly, but I can't use brick to just print to screen
2020-09-22 19:34:08 +0200gawen(~gawen@movzbl.root.sx)
2020-09-22 19:34:11 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:34:16 +0200 <maerwald> table-layout has too many bugs
2020-09-22 19:34:36 +0200dead10cc(63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207)
2020-09-22 19:34:48 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku)
2020-09-22 19:34:51 +0200 <geekosaur> although there are cheaty ways if you stick to a subset of escapes
2020-09-22 19:35:29 +0200 <sm[m]> hledger deals with it somehow (using tabular and helpers in Hledger.Utils.String or so)
2020-09-22 19:35:47 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: please make it a library...
2020-09-22 19:36:12 +0200 <sm[m]> I can't afford it
2020-09-22 19:36:27 +0200 <maerwald> why... how much funding you need
2020-09-22 19:36:40 +0200 <sm[m]> those are two issues, right.. dealing with wide unicode characters, and dealing with ansi escapes ?
2020-09-22 19:37:01 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, I don't know which one affects me and I don't really want to know
2020-09-22 19:37:18 +0200 <sm[m]> hehe
2020-09-22 19:37:34 +0200palmer67(47cc944a@c-71-204-148-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:38:01 +0200alp(~alp@2a01:e0a:58b:4920:79c5:27e3:c619:e1ff) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:38:11 +0200 <sm[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-lib-1.19.1/docs/Hledger-Utils-String.html#v:stripAnsi removes ansi, probably this exists in some lib too
2020-09-22 19:38:29 +0200ukari(~ukari@unaffiliated/ukari)
2020-09-22 19:38:30 +0200DavidEichmann(~david@43.240.198.146.dyn.plus.net)
2020-09-22 19:38:44 +0200 <monochrom> Necessity is the mother of yak shaving. :)
2020-09-22 19:39:09 +0200 <sm[m]> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-lib-1.19.1/docs/Hledger-Utils-String.html#v:strWidth calculates width, accounting for wide chars and ignoring ansi codes
2020-09-22 19:39:49 +0200 <maerwald> it's like... you want to drink a coffee and you end up flying to Africa, buying a plantation, growing coffee beans, figuring out logistics and how to ship your crap. Then 20 years later you get to drink the damn coffee.
2020-09-22 19:40:45 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: interesting
2020-09-22 19:40:54 +0200 <monochrom> I think that's how coffee company empires were built.
2020-09-22 19:41:17 +0200coot(~coot@37.30.51.178.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Quit: coot)
2020-09-22 19:41:21 +0200 <sm[m]> see also https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hledger-lib-1.19.1/docs/Hledger-Utils-Text.html
2020-09-22 19:41:45 +0200John20(~John@82.46.59.122) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 19:42:27 +0200 <maerwald> monochrom: I know right... it's always the little things where you think "this should just take a minute" and then it derails your life
2020-09-22 19:43:09 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 19:43:19 +0200 <monochrom> I wouldn't call it "derail" if the side effect is you become a tycoon of something and get rich.
2020-09-22 19:43:42 +0200 <maerwald> you're just trying to manipulate me into fixing this
2020-09-22 19:43:46 +0200 <geekosaur> but I'm still waiting for my <redacted> coffee!
2020-09-22 19:43:47 +0200 <maerwald> that won't work!
2020-09-22 19:43:49 +0200 <monochrom> :)
2020-09-22 19:43:53 +0200machinedgod(~machinedg@d67-193-126-196.home3.cgocable.net)
2020-09-22 19:44:50 +0200 <sm[m]> <gazing into space> hmm, if only someone had time to extract my utils into a library...
2020-09-22 19:45:31 +0200 <monochrom> I have Dyson in mind. The vacuum cleaner Dyson. He was very dissatisfied by the vacuum cleaners before his, so he did the yak shaving of making his own (fortunately, he also had the know-how to). As a side effect, he's a tycoon of this business now, and goes on to sell hair dryers in addition.
2020-09-22 19:46:30 +0200 <maerwald> imagine a multi-functional vacuum cleaner, which also works as a hair dryer
2020-09-22 19:46:51 +0200 <maerwald> just be sure to press the right button
2020-09-22 19:47:11 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-22 19:47:17 +0200confundus(~confundus@132.145.106.146)
2020-09-22 19:47:19 +0200 <maerwald> (and a leaf blower)
2020-09-22 19:47:43 +0200jespada(~jespada@90.254.241.6)
2020-09-22 19:47:44 +0200chrisdotcode(~chrisdotc@unaffiliated/chrisdotcode) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 19:48:06 +0200chrisdotcode(~chrisdotc@unaffiliated/chrisdotcode)
2020-09-22 19:48:26 +0200 <maerwald> why do discussions about ansi terminal always end up with vacuum cleaners? Because it sucks!
2020-09-22 19:48:35 +0200 <monochrom> hahaha
2020-09-22 19:48:51 +0200 <monochrom> And leaf blowers? Because it blows!
2020-09-22 19:49:13 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: please rescue us
2020-09-22 19:49:36 +0200 <maerwald> you have the know-how... just need to become tycoon now
2020-09-22 19:49:58 +0200 <sm[m]> urgh it's not so easy
2020-09-22 19:50:19 +0200 <maerwald> you're a good sales man
2020-09-22 19:50:31 +0200maerwaldincreases the offer
2020-09-22 19:50:37 +0200pera(~pera@unaffiliated/pera)
2020-09-22 19:50:52 +0200confundus(~confundus@132.145.106.146) (Client Quit)
2020-09-22 19:52:22 +0200 <maerwald> how do you build a table now?
2020-09-22 19:52:32 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: I just saw your https://github.com/muesli4/table-layout/issues/8 screenshot.. like the commenter said, that's just being caused by the colour codes, yes ? is the bug in table-layout then ?
2020-09-22 19:52:46 +0200 <maerwald> where else would the bug be
2020-09-22 19:54:53 +0200natrys(~natrys@132.145.106.146)
2020-09-22 19:54:57 +0200mirrorbird(~psutcliff@2a00:801:44a:a00b:20c3:c64:eb15:73a2)
2020-09-22 19:55:24 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 19:55:46 +0200acidjnk_new2(~acidjnk@p200300d0c7365847cc6a0d2723d0128d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 19:55:49 +0200 <maerwald> I think I'll just implement this myself... doing a table isn't that hard
2020-09-22 19:56:04 +0200 <maerwald> only when you want to support all sorts of weird configurations
2020-09-22 19:56:09 +0200 <sm[m]> I use those utils + tabular. It shouldn't be that hard to add a similar fix in table-layout though.
2020-09-22 19:57:37 +0200natrys(~natrys@132.145.106.146) (Client Quit)
2020-09-22 19:58:17 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: can it do normal line by line output without table frames and delimiters?
2020-09-22 19:58:45 +0200 <sm[m]> tabular.. I don't think so..
2020-09-22 19:58:57 +0200 <sm[m]> I have munged its output when I wanted that
2020-09-22 19:59:11 +0200 <sm[m]> oh I could be wrong
2020-09-22 19:59:47 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 20:00:02 +0200tomatopotato(~tomatopot@s91904426.blix.com) ()
2020-09-22 20:00:14 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: in that screenshot in that issue, what bytes does ghcup write to the terminal?
2020-09-22 20:00:30 +0200 <sm[m]> oh nice, tabular is maintained now, by bgamari
2020-09-22 20:00:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> because that looks suspiciously like it's trying to align with tabs where ghcup thinks tabs are width 4, and your terminal emulator thinks they're width 8
2020-09-22 20:00:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> :p
2020-09-22 20:00:44 +0200 <bgamari> indeed; it's a nice package
2020-09-22 20:00:54 +0200 <sm[m]> thanks bgamari !
2020-09-22 20:00:58 +0200 <tomsmeding> or... maybe not, since the columns are 9 characters apart
2020-09-22 20:01:20 +0200spew(uid195861@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bhhgjdvsxlzecbgs) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2020-09-22 20:01:20 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pretty-terminal-0.1.0.0/docs/src/System-Console-Pretty.html#Co…
2020-09-22 20:01:44 +0200 <tomsmeding> I was asking in particular about what characters make up the blank space between the columns :p
2020-09-22 20:01:52 +0200 <tomsmeding> I know ansi color codes
2020-09-22 20:02:04 +0200 <maerwald> it's probably ...space?
2020-09-22 20:02:25 +0200 <geekosaur> the alternative being tabs, which is what tomsmeding was asking
2020-09-22 20:02:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> or manual positioning using ansi cursor movement codes
2020-09-22 20:02:48 +0200 <dead10cc> is there any document like "how haskellers program in x language" of from haskell to x language?
2020-09-22 20:03:21 +0200 <sm[m]> yes, a few
2020-09-22 20:04:04 +0200 <tomsmeding> maerwald: a way to get the actual stuff that a program is writing to the terminal is running it in `script(1)`
2020-09-22 20:04:36 +0200 <tomsmeding> '$ script -O log.txt' opens a new shell, and copies all bytes written to the "terminal" during that shell session to log.txt
2020-09-22 20:05:06 +0200 <tomsmeding> it's better than piping the output to a file if the command does something different depending on isatty(stdout); script(1) makes sure stdout actually looks like a tty
2020-09-22 20:05:13 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 20:05:39 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 20:06:40 +0200 <monochrom> I simplify "how haskellers program in x language" by s/haskellers/to/
2020-09-22 20:07:03 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah! maerwald the ansi code for switching on a simple text colour takes 5 bytes, and the ansi code for resetting colour takes 4; your "Notes" column entries are offset 9 (= 5 + 4) bytes from each other
2020-09-22 20:07:24 +0200 <maerwald> tomsmeding: I'm already reimplementing it
2020-09-22 20:07:30 +0200 <tomsmeding> the number of spaces is calculated by taking the length of the preceding string, which wrongly includes the ansi formatting characters
2020-09-22 20:07:31 +0200 <tomsmeding> ah :p
2020-09-22 20:07:37 +0200 <tomsmeding> took me a while to spoit it
2020-09-22 20:07:41 +0200 <tomsmeding> *spot
2020-09-22 20:08:01 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 20:08:28 +0200hackagestm-actor 0.2.0.0 - A simplistic actor model based on STM https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm-actor-0.2.0.0 (sgschlesinger)
2020-09-22 20:08:44 +0200 <dead10cc> monochrom, no I want to see it from a haskell programming perspective
2020-09-22 20:09:05 +0200 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: ircbrowse did indeed have lots of channels; since I was in none of those except #haskell, I disabled all except #haskell. If you want more channels, you need to only request and promise me that the ircbrowse bot is welcome there :)
2020-09-22 20:09:09 +0200chrisdotcode(~chrisdotc@unaffiliated/chrisdotcode) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 20:09:24 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:7871:2065:6603:de04) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2020-09-22 20:09:27 +0200chrisdotcode(~chrisdotc@unaffiliated/chrisdotcode)
2020-09-22 20:09:47 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 20:10:23 +0200 <geekosaur> I can't speak for #ghc but suspect it would be welcomed back. I can even less speak for other channels
2020-09-22 20:10:54 +0200 <geekosaur> (well, I can speak for #xmonad but that's not worth logging really, it's so low volume)
2020-09-22 20:10:57 +0200hackagenri-prelude 0.1.0.0 - A Prelude inspired by the Elm programming language https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-prelude-0.1.0.0 (JasperWoudenberg)
2020-09-22 20:12:25 +0200 <sm[m]> tomsmeding: #hledger is ready to be logged again, thanks for the offer
2020-09-22 20:12:36 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-22 20:12:43 +0200 <tomsmeding> I'll add it sm[m]
2020-09-22 20:12:54 +0200 <sm[m]> I suppose you don't have the old logs from ircbrowse.net ?
2020-09-22 20:13:13 +0200 <tomsmeding> I don't :p
2020-09-22 20:13:19 +0200niHiggim_(~manjaro-u@98.122.188.27) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 20:13:20 +0200 <tomsmeding> not sure how I would obtain them
2020-09-22 20:13:41 +0200tomsmedingis kind of confused why the channels in ircbrowse are determined at compile time
2020-09-22 20:13:52 +0200ransom(~c4264035@2601:285:201:6720:28cb:f0d0:855:f556)
2020-09-22 20:14:06 +0200 <sm[m]> it would mean contacting chris done
2020-09-22 20:14:29 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:2dba:ec90:fe41:6b4d)
2020-09-22 20:14:36 +0200 <sm[m]> not urgent for me, I was just wondering
2020-09-22 20:14:48 +0200 <monochrom> I'm a lazy programmer, I think I know. It's less work to hardcode parameters at compile time. :)
2020-09-22 20:14:56 +0200 <tomsmeding> :p
2020-09-22 20:15:10 +0200dead10cc(63f22acf@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.99.242.42.207) ()
2020-09-22 20:15:38 +0200 <geekosaur> xmonad-style configuration :)
2020-09-22 20:16:06 +0200dxld(~dxld@2a01:4f8:201:89ff:7479:df6a:7ab8:8305)
2020-09-22 20:16:45 +0200niHiggim_(~manjaro-u@98.122.188.27)
2020-09-22 20:17:13 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
2020-09-22 20:18:40 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 20:19:28 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-22 20:20:14 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 20:20:20 +0200theorbtwo(~theorb@cpc81860-swin19-2-0-cust166.3-1.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2020-09-22 20:20:38 +0200 <tomsmeding> sm[m]: ircbrowse_tom should have joined #hledger
2020-09-22 20:22:07 +0200 <sm[m]> it has not
2020-09-22 20:22:49 +0200__monty__(~toonn@unaffiliated/toonn)
2020-09-22 20:23:12 +0200 <tomsmeding> why does znc not make a channel enabled by default
2020-09-22 20:23:23 +0200 <tomsmeding> there we go
2020-09-22 20:23:42 +0200 <tomsmeding> https://ircbrowse.tomsmeding.com/browse/hledger
2020-09-22 20:24:07 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: stripAnsi... wasn't that the function with the bug? :)
2020-09-22 20:24:35 +0200 <sm[m]> tomsmeding: thanks!
2020-09-22 20:25:01 +0200zacts(~zacts@dragora/developer/zacts)
2020-09-22 20:25:05 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: it got broken and fixed in hledger master recently, but works fine in all released versions AFAIK
2020-09-22 20:25:43 +0200 <sm[m]> well I'd better qualify that, maybe 1.19 or 1.19.1 is suspect
2020-09-22 20:26:58 +0200hackagestm-actor 0.2.0.1 - A simplistic actor model based on STM https://hackage.haskell.org/package/stm-actor-0.2.0.1 (sgschlesinger)
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2020-09-22 21:00:57 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: and done :)
2020-09-22 21:01:00 +0200geekosaur(42d52102@66.213.33.2)
2020-09-22 21:01:05 +0200 <maerwald> your function works well
2020-09-22 21:01:28 +0200 <sm[m]> nice!
2020-09-22 21:02:00 +0200dwts(pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hdcyxbuhngzudhpp)
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2020-09-22 21:02:57 +0200ChaiTRex(~ChaiTRex@gateway/tor-sasl/chaitrex)
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2020-09-22 21:04:54 +0200cocreature(092ESE2ULR@gateway/shell/uberspace.de/x-qtbzjlnixqybifgo) (Quit: A monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors, what's the problem?)
2020-09-22 21:05:28 +0200 <maerwald> the solution was actually less than 10 lines of code (if I don't count the functions I copy pasted from you)
2020-09-22 21:05:41 +0200 <maerwald> and one library less in use
2020-09-22 21:06:08 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2020-09-22 21:07:16 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 21:07:58 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: https://gitlab.haskell.org/haskell/ghcup-hs/-/commit/40a1cc98c6ea7eb06eeca7a37915a5075451420b#c84b…
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2020-09-22 21:09:13 +0200mmohammadi9812(~mmohammad@2.178.152.109)
2020-09-22 21:10:26 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: slight warning, I think that list of wide characters doesn't cover everything
2020-09-22 21:10:39 +0200 <maerwald> doesn't have to
2020-09-22 21:10:48 +0200rig0rmortis(~rig0rmort@86.106.143.21) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
2020-09-22 21:11:02 +0200 <sm[m]> but so far we've only once had to add another mystery unicode region to it
2020-09-22 21:11:22 +0200 <maerwald> this isn't rocket science I think, ppl have done worse things in CSS
2020-09-22 21:11:35 +0200 <geekosaur> it's not really possible to, as which ones are wide depends on the font and sometimes the terminal
2020-09-22 21:12:22 +0200 <sm[m]> I think unicode specifies their nominal width
2020-09-22 21:13:02 +0200 <sm[m]> how they get rendered is of course another matter
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2020-09-22 21:30:39 +0200tummy(~tummy@84.39.117.57)
2020-09-22 21:30:52 +0200cr0ssw1nd(~crosswind@93.152.144.222)
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2020-09-22 21:32:03 +0200hiroaki(~hiroaki@ip4d176049.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
2020-09-22 21:32:12 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> hey
2020-09-22 21:33:28 +0200hackagenri-env-parser 0.1.0.0 - Read environment variables as settings to build 12-factor apps. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/nri-env-parser-0.1.0.0 (JasperWoudenberg)
2020-09-22 21:33:50 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> what is the way to install tools in haskell world?
2020-09-22 21:34:12 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-22 21:34:14 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> like `cargo install` in rust
2020-09-22 21:34:30 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> `cabal install` installs the project itself if I understand correctly
2020-09-22 21:34:47 +0200 <maerwald> cr0ssw1nd: cabal install
2020-09-22 21:35:17 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@200116b82410ab0004048f5f1e9c0efb.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Quit: knupfer)
2020-09-22 21:35:37 +0200knupfer(~Thunderbi@i59F7FFF0.versanet.de)
2020-09-22 21:35:43 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> maerwald, it starts to compile my project
2020-09-22 21:35:55 +0200chaosmasttter(~chaosmast@p200300c4a714f10131538000641ea681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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2020-09-22 21:36:55 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> for instance, I want to install hpack
2020-09-22 21:37:00 +0200 <maerwald> cabal install hpack
2020-09-22 21:37:11 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> but why it compiles the whole my project
2020-09-22 21:37:20 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> it is like 15 minutes in my case
2020-09-22 21:37:29 +0200 <maerwald> go outside of your project dir
2020-09-22 21:37:51 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> ha, thanks
2020-09-22 21:38:00 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> didn't think about it :)
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2020-09-22 21:39:25 +0200akhov(~akh@89.45.7.218)
2020-09-22 21:39:27 +0200akhov(~akh@89.45.7.218) ()
2020-09-22 21:40:52 +0200 <sm[m]> either way, it could build a lot of deps. But if you do it from your home dir you're more likely to have them already built
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2020-09-22 21:48:33 +0200LKoen(~LKoen@lstlambert-657-1-123-43.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 21:48:56 +0200Hollows(59943f26@89.148.63.38)
2020-09-22 21:50:09 +0200ransom(~c4264035@2601:285:201:6720:28cb:f0d0:855:f556)
2020-09-22 21:50:23 +0200 <maerwald> sm[m]: do I have to pay ransom for stealing your code?
2020-09-22 21:51:24 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 21:52:03 +0200nbloomf(~nbloomf@2600:1700:83e0:1f40:85b3:8a6c:1150:3477)
2020-09-22 21:52:10 +0200tomku(~tomku@unaffiliated/tomku)
2020-09-22 21:52:38 +0200 <sm[m]> maerwald: no, use it freely. You're in the GPL "family" now.
2020-09-22 21:54:13 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> sm[m], hm, I actually did it from /tmp
2020-09-22 21:54:13 +0200geekosaur(42d52102@66.213.33.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 21:54:23 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> doesn't it look into ~ automatically?
2020-09-22 21:54:41 +0200 <sm[m]> ..if you want to leave, we'll have to send Vinnie the Collector ..
2020-09-22 21:54:53 +0200 <sm[m]> cr0ssw1nd: that's fine, the main thing is a non-project directory. I always to "cd" because it's easy
2020-09-22 21:54:57 +0200 <sm[m]> do
2020-09-22 21:55:18 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> lol, I forgot that there is default for cd
2020-09-22 21:55:35 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> started to use /tmp a lot last time
2020-09-22 21:56:13 +0200 <maerwald> those are all excellent choices
2020-09-22 21:56:22 +0200Hollows(59943f26@89.148.63.38) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 21:56:25 +0200 <maerwald> a gentleman choice
2020-09-22 21:56:45 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> :)
2020-09-22 22:00:53 +0200Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:f9f7:186a:b38:3c1e) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:01:03 +0200 <sm[m]> cr0ssw1nd: and some things are just too much hassle to build from source (pandoc) so you might find brew/nix/apt quicker
2020-09-22 22:01:40 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> can imagine, rpm in my case
2020-09-22 22:01:46 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> but probably I should try nix already
2020-09-22 22:02:14 +0200 <sm[m]> rpm/apt tend to be very out of date, is all
2020-09-22 22:02:25 +0200 <maerwald> cr0ssw1nd: nix... if you have time to waste :p
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2020-09-22 22:03:28 +0200ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18)
2020-09-22 22:03:29 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> gentoo already isn't that popular? :)
2020-09-22 22:03:33 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> for this purpose
2020-09-22 22:03:43 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc600ed2222922a5678d5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 22:04:06 +0200 <sm[m]> it's popular only among gentoo users
2020-09-22 22:04:40 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 22:04:50 +0200 <ixlun> Is there a mapZip function?
2020-09-22 22:05:07 +0200 <ixlun> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [(a, b)]
2020-09-22 22:05:57 +0200 <phadej> :t \f -> map (id &&& f)
2020-09-22 22:05:58 +0200 <lambdabot> (a -> c') -> [a] -> [(a, c')]
2020-09-22 22:06:02 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-22 22:06:24 +0200 <ixlun> whoa, not seen `&&&` before
2020-09-22 22:07:46 +0200 <sm[m]> nice
2020-09-22 22:08:01 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> sm[m], yeah, gentoo is probably more about wasting cpu time than your own
2020-09-22 22:08:19 +0200 <maerwald> yeah, I wasted a lot of time on it :p
2020-09-22 22:09:02 +0200vicfred(~vicfred@unaffiliated/vicfred)
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2020-09-22 22:10:03 +0200 <phadej> ixlun: I consider that to be slightly code-golfy, `map (\x -> (x, f x))` is not that bad either
2020-09-22 22:10:40 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-09-22 22:12:45 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:12:56 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
2020-09-22 22:14:30 +0200carlomagno(~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com)
2020-09-22 22:15:22 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p5487d26a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 22:15:31 +0200 <ixlun> Indeed, I think if I came back to this code and saw your previous answer, I'd be scratching my head.
2020-09-22 22:15:34 +0200 <dolio> Using (&&&) is longer once you account for importing Control.Arrow.
2020-09-22 22:15:50 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:15:50 +0200 <ixlun> (I need to read up on Arrows)
2020-09-22 22:16:23 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
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2020-09-22 22:18:22 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:20:47 +0200Alleria_(~AllahuAkb@2604:2000:1484:26:e98f:8381:852e:ca0)
2020-09-22 22:21:47 +0200thc202(~thc202@unaffiliated/thc202) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:22:32 +0200 <merijn> ixlun: tbh, you don't really
2020-09-22 22:22:46 +0200 <merijn> I'd say Arrow is a mostly dead abstraction that's fallen in near complete disuse
2020-09-22 22:23:13 +0200 <merijn> Most of the stuff it's used for has been superseded by a mix of Applicative, Category, and Profunctor
2020-09-22 22:23:55 +0200 <merijn> The &&& and *** combinators are sometimes used for code golfing, but their tuple instance honestly has fairly little to do with Arrows
2020-09-22 22:25:18 +0200 <sshine> I prefer Data.Bifunctor for tuple jugling
2020-09-22 22:25:25 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110)
2020-09-22 22:25:40 +0200 <merijn> Yeah, but &&& doesn't work with bifunctor :p
2020-09-22 22:25:52 +0200 <sshine> :t (&&&)
2020-09-22 22:25:53 +0200 <lambdabot> Arrow a => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c')
2020-09-22 22:25:57 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-22 22:26:21 +0200ubert(~Thunderbi@178.165.128.28.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
2020-09-22 22:27:12 +0200 <merijn> That'd require Biapplicative
2020-09-22 22:27:14 +0200acidjnk_new(~acidjnk@p5487d26a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:27:23 +0200 <merijn> actually, no, not even then
2020-09-22 22:27:26 +0200 <sshine> heh :)
2020-09-22 22:27:39 +0200isovector1(~isovector@node-1w7jr9squrfoy3fci95ksrhpu.ipv6.telus.net)
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2020-09-22 22:30:24 +0200adamwespiser(~adam_wesp@209.6.42.110) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:30:46 +0200z0(~z0@bl15-163-199.dsl.telepac.pt)
2020-09-22 22:32:50 +0200 <z0> hi. can we create a 'newtype N = N Int' that inherits everything Int has?
2020-09-22 22:33:16 +0200 <z0> basically i want a type synonym that doesnt typecheck with the original type
2020-09-22 22:34:03 +0200 <sshine> z0, there are many ways to automatically derive, but I think you have to be explicit about what you derive.
2020-09-22 22:34:08 +0200 <solonarv> z0: *everything, automatically*? no. but with GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving, you can inherit a lot of things
2020-09-22 22:34:41 +0200 <z0> that's what i thought. thanks
2020-09-22 22:34:52 +0200 <solonarv> newtype N = N Int deriving newtype (Eq, Ord, Num, Real, Integral, Show, Read, ... more typeclasses here ...)
2020-09-22 22:35:28 +0200 <z0> wouldnt it be useful to be able to do that?
2020-09-22 22:35:36 +0200 <sshine> hmm, maybe. but also shaky.
2020-09-22 22:35:42 +0200irreg(97f8d1fe@pub-151-248-209-254.dh-hfc.datazug.ch)
2020-09-22 22:35:43 +0200 <z0> why shaky?
2020-09-22 22:36:27 +0200 <irreg> @pl \x y -> x y
2020-09-22 22:36:28 +0200 <lambdabot> id
2020-09-22 22:36:41 +0200 <sshine> I'm not sure where to start, or if what I'm thinking is the most fundamental argument to not want that. but I'd like that if my data type has some ability, this ability is listed next to the data type definition.
2020-09-22 22:37:15 +0200murphy_(~murphy_@2604:2000:1281:8a9e:e3b0:32cd:63ad:fdb4) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-22 22:37:23 +0200 <sshine> so with derived abilities, at least it says where I derived it. otherwise I get a soup of unknown behaviors once I derive everything from something that derives everything from something else. :)
2020-09-22 22:37:47 +0200murphy_(~murphy_@2604:2000:1281:8a9e:f9e2:b2b0:776f:fb0d)
2020-09-22 22:38:04 +0200 <z0> well, you can have 'type N = Int' and that wont bother you. the difference is that i want to make sure im not passing Dollars where i should be passing Mass (dumb example)
2020-09-22 22:38:05 +0200thir(~thir@p200300f27f0fc60094e773283d7bf825.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
2020-09-22 22:38:08 +0200 <monochrom> It is both useful to inherit and useful to forbid inheriting. There lies the conflict.
2020-09-22 22:38:22 +0200 <sshine> what if I create a data type that has two fields (so isomorphic to a tuple), where I derive everything from each of those components, and somehow those components have overlapping instances?
2020-09-22 22:38:58 +0200hackagesequence-formats 1.5.1.3 - A package with basic parsing utilities for several Bioinformatic data formats. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/sequence-formats-1.5.1.3 (stephan_schiffels)
2020-09-22 22:39:16 +0200 <monochrom> sshine, but then with two fields it wouldn't be newtype.
2020-09-22 22:39:23 +0200 <sshine> monochrom, no, it wouldn't.
2020-09-22 22:39:31 +0200 <z0> this wouldnt be a derivation, it would be like a synonym that doesnt typecheck with the original type
2020-09-22 22:39:53 +0200 <monochrom> Here the fundamental conflict is how different people have opposite use cases of newtype and therefore opposite expectations.
2020-09-22 22:39:57 +0200 <sshine> monochrom, so maybe this is useful to consider as a newtype-only feature. but are there deriving strategies that only work on newtypes so far?
2020-09-22 22:40:29 +0200heatsink(~heatsink@107-136-5-69.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-22 22:40:57 +0200 <z0> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/5.04.3/docs/html/users_guide/newtype-deriving.html
2020-09-22 22:41:22 +0200 <phadej> hmm, that's ancient docs
2020-09-22 22:41:22 +0200ixlun(~matthew@213.205.241.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-22 22:42:15 +0200 <monochrom> I had a copy of GHC 4.something, but it got corrupted.
2020-09-22 22:42:17 +0200 <sshine> z0, have you seen the safe-money package? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/safe-money - https://ren.zone/articles/safe-money - this is one approach to providing domain-specific wrappers that try to mix convenience (e.g. 3.14 :: Dense "USD") with type-safety.
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2020-09-22 22:47:38 +0200 <z0> interesting
2020-09-22 22:47:40 +0200 <z0> thanks
2020-09-22 22:48:18 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas)
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2020-09-22 22:58:21 +0200 <dolio> There would be more details needed to be worked out for such a thing.
2020-09-22 23:00:01 +0200tummy(~tummy@84.39.117.57) ()
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2020-09-22 23:01:28 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> if I have only 1 library in my project, what is the difference between putting something into "dependencies" or into "library->dependencies" in my package.yaml ?
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2020-09-22 23:08:35 +0200 <maerwald> safe-money is awesome, yet I haven't seen it in use... I think ppl just go for Double and call it a day
2020-09-22 23:09:31 +0200 <Uniaika> smart people don't handle money ;)
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2020-09-22 23:11:48 +0200 <cr0ssw1nd> :D
2020-09-22 23:11:49 +0200tzh(~tzh@2601:448:c500:5300::82b3)
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2020-09-22 23:24:38 +0200 <ixlun> If I have: a -> f a, and a -> b, how can I combine them to get a -> f b?
2020-09-22 23:25:22 +0200justsomeguy(~justsomeg@unaffiliated/--/x-3805311)
2020-09-22 23:26:01 +0200 <koz_> :t fmap
2020-09-22 23:26:04 +0200 <lambdabot> Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
2020-09-22 23:26:08 +0200 <koz_> ixlun: ^
2020-09-22 23:26:22 +0200 <sshine> :t fmap . pure
2020-09-22 23:26:24 +0200 <lambdabot> Functor f => b -> f a -> f b
2020-09-22 23:27:23 +0200bahamas(~lucian@unaffiliated/bahamas) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2020-09-22 23:28:36 +0200 <ixlun> so, say x :: a -> f a and y :: a -> b
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2020-09-22 23:29:10 +0200 <ixlun> then, if I do, pure y <$> x, then I get: a -> a -> b
2020-09-22 23:29:24 +0200 <sshine> where'd the f go?
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2020-09-22 23:30:09 +0200 <ixlun> I ain't got a clue but that's what haskell is telling me!
2020-09-22 23:30:17 +0200 <ixlun> let me post the code...
2020-09-22 23:30:56 +0200 <ixlun> http://ix.io/2yrC
2020-09-22 23:31:35 +0200 <ixlun> at the bottom: x :: GameState -> Tree GameState
2020-09-22 23:31:57 +0200 <ixlun> evaluate :: GameState -> Double
2020-09-22 23:32:28 +0200 <ixlun> tree :: GameState -> GameState -> Double
2020-09-22 23:32:37 +0200 <ixlun> ^ that I really don't understand
2020-09-22 23:32:55 +0200 <ixlun> `Tree` has disappeared?
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2020-09-22 23:38:50 +0200 <dolio> `pure y :: f (a -> b)` but using it as the first argument to fmap/<$> means `f` is expected to unify with a function type.
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2020-09-22 23:39:31 +0200 <dolio> Also x has a function type, but the second argument of fmap/<$> is expected to be `f a`, which also leads to f being expected to be a function type.
2020-09-22 23:39:59 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a)
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2020-09-22 23:40:55 +0200 <dolio> Anyhow, `fmap y . x` is the desired composition.
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2020-09-22 23:44:19 +0200 <ixlun> Aha, that works. thanks@
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