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2020-09-17 02:01:45 +0200Qez(52249602@cpc142018-dudl15-2-0-cust513.16-1.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:02:42 +0200jumper149(~jumper149@ip185225.wh.uni-hannover.de) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2020-09-17 02:07:40 +0200twopoint718(~cjw@fsf/member/twopoint718) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2020-09-17 02:11:51 +0200wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:13:17 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-73-24-27-54.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:13:34 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl)
2020-09-17 02:15:51 +0200mariatsji(~mariatsji@155.84-234-177.customer.lyse.net)
2020-09-17 02:16:04 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:16:20 +0200josh(~josh@c-67-164-104-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:16:23 +0200wroathe_(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:16:30 +0200ryansmccoy(~ryansmcco@193.37.254.27) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:16:38 +0200 <glguy> Hi, josh. Glad you could make it.
2020-09-17 02:18:06 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:20:22 +0200mariatsji(~mariatsji@155.84-234-177.customer.lyse.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:20:42 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:21:06 +0200mdunnio(~mdunnio@208.59.170.5)
2020-09-17 02:23:32 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:24:47 +0200nan`(~nan`@unaffiliated/nan/x-5405850)
2020-09-17 02:26:04 +0200mdunnio(~mdunnio@208.59.170.5) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:27:33 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser)
2020-09-17 02:29:52 +0200nan`(~nan`@unaffiliated/nan/x-5405850) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:32:14 +0200 <lc_> what's up justanotheruser. How ya been?
2020-09-17 02:32:50 +0200cole-h(~cole-h@c-73-48-197-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:34:55 +0200frdg(~user@pool-71-184-143-249.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
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2020-09-17 02:36:56 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:38:54 +0200gmt(~gmt@pool-71-105-108-44.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-17 02:40:31 +0200Tuplanolla(~Tuplanoll@91-159-68-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:41:22 +0200eric_(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b75:19f7:ea85:5be8:4c8e)
2020-09-17 02:41:47 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:42:59 +0200HarveyPwca(~HarveyPwc@c-98-220-98-201.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
2020-09-17 02:43:36 +0200rapskalian(~user@2601:804:8400:5750:6d07:cb01:64a9:36bb)
2020-09-17 02:43:37 +0200 <sshine> monochrom, is there a good reason to use forM_ instead of for_?
2020-09-17 02:43:50 +0200 <monochrom> No.
2020-09-17 02:44:05 +0200 <sshine> ok, so it was just for the mapM_ <-> forM_ correspondence.
2020-09-17 02:44:25 +0200 <sshine> :t for_
2020-09-17 02:44:27 +0200 <lambdabot> (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f ()
2020-09-17 02:44:50 +0200eric(~eric@2804:431:c7d4:b75:f492:17b0:3087:5bcd) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:45:03 +0200 <monochrom> It's simpler than that. Different people learned different names, and first impressions are always the strongest.
2020-09-17 02:45:37 +0200 <dolio> I learned all the names before Applicative even existed, but I like the Applicative names better. :þ
2020-09-17 02:45:38 +0200 <ski> `Applicative' wasn't superclass of `Monad', back then
2020-09-17 02:46:30 +0200 <monochrom> Always look for human factors and social reasons before looking for technical reasons.
2020-09-17 02:46:45 +0200 <monochrom> Programmers are artisan humans not scientific robots.
2020-09-17 02:47:00 +0200 <monochrom> Oh I do wish programmers were scientific robots.
2020-09-17 02:47:36 +0200merijn(~merijn@83-160-49-249.ip.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:47:38 +0200 <justanotheruser> lc_: hi whos this
2020-09-17 02:48:10 +0200 <lc_> just a friendly guy
2020-09-17 02:48:20 +0200 <justanotheruser> ok
2020-09-17 02:48:22 +0200rapskalian(~user@2601:804:8400:5750:6d07:cb01:64a9:36bb) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-17 02:50:40 +0200 <sshine> I consider myself better of being a bayesian inference machine.
2020-09-17 02:50:50 +0200 <monochrom> Another good example is why Prelude has the head-tail couple, and why tail [] = undefined, and why they are neither a safeHead-safeTail couple nor a "listAnalysis z _ [] = z; listAnalysis _ f (x:xs) = f x xs" function like maybe and either.
2020-09-17 02:50:52 +0200 <sshine> I get to defy logic in completely subjective corner cases.
2020-09-17 02:51:01 +0200 <sshine> robots are doomed to repeat their program.
2020-09-17 02:52:15 +0200 <monochrom> It is because when the committee formed and sat down to write Prelude, the lot of them was from Lisp backgrounds and their first instinct was to replicate Lisp's car and cdr.
2020-09-17 02:53:01 +0200 <monochrom> And because of that background, they totally expected the head-tail couple would be very popular among users.
2020-09-17 02:53:04 +0200 <sshine> I thought the Lisp guys branched off to form the ML cult of which Haskell is more closely related?
2020-09-17 02:53:22 +0200 <monochrom> It is clearly technically inferior, and equally clearly socially popular.
2020-09-17 02:53:27 +0200 <sshine> SML has hd/tl, too.
2020-09-17 02:54:19 +0200wroathe(~wroathe@c-68-54-25-135.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:55:55 +0200 <monochrom> And I guess s/scientific robots/utilitarian robots/
2020-09-17 02:56:11 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
2020-09-17 02:58:36 +0200Plazma(~Plazma@freenode/staff-emeritus/plazma)
2020-09-17 02:59:33 +0200 <monochrom> ML taught us the valuable lesson that pattern matching trumps head-tail, and after you have pattern matching you can pretty much throw away head-tail. A committee for a new language and its new library, having their chance to start from a clean slate, if they had really learned that lesson, you would think they would reflect this new value by omitting head-tail in their clean slate new library no?
2020-09-17 02:59:42 +0200falafel(~falafel@2605:e000:1527:d491:f090:20fe:cddf:2a1a)
2020-09-17 02:59:44 +0200justanotheruser(~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2020-09-17 03:00:18 +0200banner(~banner@116-255-17-98.ip4.superloop.com)
2020-09-17 03:00:30 +0200 <monochrom> That they totally (anti-pun!) didn't do it shows that the influence of social inertia trumps the influence of technical superiority.
2020-09-17 03:00:54 +0200gestone(~gestone@c-73-97-137-216.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 03:03:00 +0200 <josh> thanks, glguy. Glad to be here
2020-09-17 03:03:51 +0200 <Plazma> apologies if this has been brought up before or beaten to death but i came across this - https://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/crypto.html and it seems to be more of a negative against the community vs the language itself.. or did i read it incorrectly
2020-09-17 03:05:24 +0200 <sm[m]> Plazma: there's some discussion of it on /r/haskell and hacker news
2020-09-17 03:05:41 +0200 <josh> "the influence of social inertia trumps the influence of technical superiority" is the story of my Haskell life
2020-09-17 03:06:05 +0200banner(~banner@116-255-17-98.ip4.superloop.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-17 03:06:31 +0200 <Plazma> i didn't realize social stuff was such a key part of using/loving a language
2020-09-17 03:06:36 +0200 <Axman6> it's negative about a view of some of the industrial uses of Haskell. I happen to work for a company which is using blockchain/DLT to build non-cryptocurrency stuff so I found the lumping of everyone with anyone who had anything to do with blockchain pretty disappointing and somewhat uninformed (though that's the same of most discussions of blockchain, everyone thinks it means cryptocurrency and boiling the oceans)
2020-09-17 03:07:33 +0200 <Plazma> Axman6: i've not worked with blockchain but i collaborate with some blockchain folks also (i'm a quantum guy) , and it's a similar story,, they aren't all trying to necessarily start their own cryptocurrency
2020-09-17 03:07:38 +0200elliott_(~elliott_@pool-71-114-77-65.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2020-09-17 03:07:40 +0200 <Plazma> many are just exploring the waters
2020-09-17 03:07:52 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> It barely mentions haskell and baffles me why it's called a haskell elephant
2020-09-17 03:07:59 +0200elliott_(~elliott_@pool-71-114-77-65.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
2020-09-17 03:08:11 +0200 <monochrom> Hey I heard lately that Microsoft is going to be literally boiling the ocean, or at least seas, by putting data centres undersea.
2020-09-17 03:08:13 +0200 <Axman6> Plazma: it's not, I think a lot of the community found the article pretty extreme, particularly when the targer was IOHK, possibly (IMO) one of the least bad players in the cryptocurrency market. (I don't work for IOHK, but do know several people who do)
2020-09-17 03:08:33 +0200 <Plazma> MarcelineVQ: see that'w hat i noticed too.. like what the actual hell is he going on about haskell ? he's not..
2020-09-17 03:08:46 +0200 <Axman6> monochrom: heating the oceans is much more efficient if we avoid the wasteful atmospheric warming step :P
2020-09-17 03:09:12 +0200 <monochrom> The benefit is 90% reduction in failure rate.
2020-09-17 03:09:23 +0200 <Plazma> thermal physics is a signed integer, so we just need to heat it so much it rolls over to cooling through natural means
2020-09-17 03:09:54 +0200systemhalted(~aqualogic@71-129-231-253.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
2020-09-17 03:09:56 +0200 <monochrom> It looks like the new failure rate is so slow, they won't bother to repair a failed unit, just submerge a new one.
2020-09-17 03:10:08 +0200 <monochrom> s/slow/low/
2020-09-17 03:10:15 +0200jedws(~jedws@101.184.189.58)
2020-09-17 03:10:53 +0200systemhalted(~aqualogic@71-129-231-253.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
2020-09-17 03:11:13 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> "why crypto is badong" would have been a better, though less publicly shared, title
2020-09-17 03:11:33 +0200xff0x_(~fox@2001:1a81:52d0:6b00:7599:d48:f5dc:5fef) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2020-09-17 03:11:34 +0200 <Plazma> Axman6: yea i mean a source i trust sent me that basically telling me to stay away from haskell or learning it, but it makes no mention of haskell really , at all as a language .. just that some guy may have used some shit for it to do shady things
2020-09-17 03:11:40 +0200 <MarcelineVQ> "I don't like that some effort in haskell goes towards crypto currencies" ok. "haskell as an ecosystem and community has sold its soul to the devil" umm...
2020-09-17 03:12:12 +0200 <Axman6> Plazma: your friend seems equally uninformed then :P
2020-09-17 03:12:26 +0200 <Plazma> i mean malware is often written in C/win32 api stuff, someitmes C++ for ransomware, but we don't chastise C++ for that, we chastise it for every other reason
2020-09-17 03:12:41 +0200 <Plazma> i mostly just wanted to make sure i didn't misinterpret it
2020-09-17 03:12:51 +0200 <Plazma> Axman6: he didn't convince me at all with that article
2020-09-17 03:12:57 +0200xff0x_(~fox@2001:1a81:5306:e200:7599:d48:f5dc:5fef)